These normal raids have me so excited for the future of the game. They are focusing on good gameplay. I think people are just not used to dying in a duty anymore. I think people will adjust this seems like a knee jerk reaction. Also everyone is undergeared and its fresh content you are supposed to die alot. Just have a laugh at the chaos and enjoy new gear will fix any casual player issues in the long run.
Yes this. I think a lot of players forget that at the start of every expansion, we all start out at or below the intended ilvl for the max level dungeons that we get at the start of the expansion. By the time we get new dungeons during patch content, most players are already above the ilvl of those dungeons due to tomestones, or raid gear. So by comparison patch content dungeons feel a lot easier since the majority of players outgear them immediately. So after 5 patches of dungeons that are outgeared on release, when a new expansion rolls around and we don't immediately outgear the dungeons on release, they feel noticeably more challenging, and we forget that this is how every expansion starts. When I finished the msq and went and unlucked the other level 100 dungeons I also was like "wow, there's a lot more damage going out in these dungeons, maybe they decided to up the difficulty for DT". But then as I started to replace all of my gear with tomestone gear the dungeons got noticeably easier. When 7.1 rolls around and everyone is wearing mostly ilvl720 tome gear, and the dungeon is dropping ilvl 705 gear, it's going to feel just as easy and the dungeons did in EW and ShB.
Reminds me of when I ran Shinryu normal for the first time. It was pretty tough the first time as a healer as people were getting downed left and right. Man it was really fun back then. Took around 25 runs to finally beat him.
This so much. People want to just breeze through everything. Comparing this stuff to savage or extreme is laughable. The average casual player isn't struggling with these fights. Are they dying? Sure, it's a learning method, it's early release and you don't know the mechanics yet. The people complaining are a vocal minority. It's like the top 1% complaining about ultimate content being too easy, but do we listen? No, because the average ultimate/savage raider isn't as good as the top 1%. Dumbing things down for casual content for the lower 1% just makes content for everyone else boring.
Honestly, these dungeons are great and fun! Though the crazy part is there are already toxic downplaying you for dying😂 I played the dungeon to the gold city entrance for the first time and two people called me trash for not knowing that the final boss of it was going to knock me off. They've played it before I did. People will complain on either end 😂
The Ivalice raids as a whole are excellent, I'm hopeful to see more healer required mechanics like they had in Orbonne - a variety of mechanics that are specific to a role are great. It's why I also loved the Susano fight, it had a specific job for tanks and DPS. I'm hopeful we get more of that.
Ivalice was harder at release than anything we've seen in Dawntrail. DT is harder than EW, EW was a snooze fest. Especially Erichthonios. You could literally sleep through Panda1. The OP is wrong on so many levels. The whole overlapping mechanic complaint is even off base. Mechanics have been overlapping as far back as I can remember. The OP just isn't overgeared by doing content on Day 1. The whole argument is baseless, is flat out wrong and the OP wants nothing more than spread mechanics.
Then there are the players who are trying to improve and work up the confidence to attempt the harder content. Having content of a more moderate difficulty helps such people learn the skills needed to attempt such content. It's a good learning curve. Shouldn't we all be trying to improve in whatever we love to do?
@@LordXenon54 that fine it called semi casual content and it what normal raids are for but this difficult has been happening in msq late dungs too and that not ok.
@@anteprs7908how can you say late msq Dungeons are more difficult when you dont get new Stuff? Also its not like every Boss throws the whole arsenal right at the beginning. You usually get every mechanic one after another before they stsrt to combine them. And even IF you fail it is ok to fail. Just learn the mechanic and on your next run youre already a better player.
@@EdgeGilid that he point we wanna stay and do the same content if ppl wish to improve that their CHOICE we just want our content to stay the same difficult not be forced to lose on content . we are good and enjoy only the clear cut mechanic not some random bs go it the reason we only do casual content and why we play this game to enjyo the story and have fun but the late dungs the lv 97 and 99 ones are just pains i nthe ass and annjoying for us and you know you fuk up when CASUAL HATE THE CASUAL CONTENT BUT MIDCORE NAD HARDCORE LIKE IT. ppl cried that ew was to easy but those ppl arent the target audeince of that content .
Don’t be scared to fail! If they curse and swear at you, while you explain your situation just report them and block them you don’t want that toxic non healthy energy gaming in the future
@@reshypoo9447 Stop seeing your character as weak or unable to deal with pain. There's plenty of main characters out there that get hurt and get back up.
Exactly! It’s literally Barb except it’s pink….SE mech’s are recycled over and over throughout the game just in different interpretations. If this person has played the game since ARR how are they confused on the mechs?
@@HoneyDoll894 I think it's more to do with the "holy shit here comes everything all at once" phase that's basically a reskin of strayborough first boss. I agree that it's not that hard, but is definitely chaotic. I do disagree with R3 being harder though. That fight is a snooze fest.
Bee is quite a lot busier than Barb. It's like Barb++. Barb sends out her air-orbs in a separate phase to the ground-dodging phase, whereas Bee is combined. There are significantly more of both the orbs, and the ground danger-zones. In Barb, there was always clear ground to run to. While in bee, the ground danger-zones overlap in such a way that you have to sit in a 'red' zone, waiting for other red zones to expire, before running out - which requires greater general awareness.
there are more 60+ players in the game. Partly because research has shown that as an older person if you are in an interactive , cooperative, challenging activity with players of other nationalities and skills your chances of developing Dementia goes down because the brain stays active. I have been using this game as my dementia prevention program for the last 10 years.
I came into the game in 2.2. When the game was struggling to find its own voice and taking inspirations from other MMOs. There was a lot of experimentation at the time and the difficulty was everywhere. When Final Coil came out along as well the announcement of Heavensward. People got excited but the forum was buzzing with threads of Summoner and Monk being difficult classes to get into, along with Final Coil being too easy. This was back when there was no cross world party finder (that didnt come out until 3.3-3.4). It was not unheard of people buying T-13 clears for gil, and this gave rise to the notion that if 7 players can tell me to eat the wall to get my clear apparently the content is too easy. So these armchair raiders constantly quarterbacked that the Raid was too easy. Come 3.0....we get Gordias and the raid scene on XIV pretty much imploded, everyone was blaming everything from the servers to the class designs. Very few pointed out the players who basically ASKED for harder content knowing that they never would be participating in said content. Its no different now, the same people complaining about Dawntrail being hard are the same people who will not engage in harder content. They are mad now they cannot go through the content/be carried like they were in EW. That some job complexity is slowly making its way back into the game. As I always like to say, be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t have the time to commit to a static, I’ve been playing this game for 4 years now, I’m more of a Eureka/Bozja/relic kind of player… and yet, this has been nice, to have a more challenging experience without the need of doing savage/ultimate.
If it's just a time commitment, have you thought about party finder? You can pretty comfortably prog and clear any non ultimate content in party finder.
@@anteprs7908this comment has no bearing on his "core" level. You can be a casual who plays 15 hours a day but never does hard content or a casual who plays 3 hours a day just to do savage and log out. It's not as simple as casual, midcore, hardcore. It's not all black and white, there's gradients in between.
@@WolfmanXD TIME ISN WORTHLESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PLAYER SYTLE. it the difficult of the content that made you do and casuals dont do any difficult content as it goes against the defintion of casual. most ppl and are that casual play to relax if you seek to challanage yourself that be default make you not longer seeking a to relax so it make you a non causals now depending on the content you do you ether semi casual or midcore but erueka,bozja and ext trail are seen and agree to be full on midcore content .
@@anteprs7908 Dude you're not even a casual, you're a turbocasual. A tiny minority even amongst the casual playerbase in the game. Stop speaking on behalf of all casuals.
Later on in the post the OP says that they are okay with themselves failing and dying to mechanics but "cant handle" when other people fail and die. This post was by someone who will never be satisfied and honestly should find a different genre to play because MMO's are meant to be played with other people and thats too much for that OP.
No. This person is concerned with not being able to clear content, to be stuck over an hour in content without being able to clear it or quit it. And that's the big problem. FF is still mostly an casual run game and while for example Roulette was a relatively save bet for certain clearing times you now can't even go into them with 93+ characters without being worried about wasting a lot of time because your healer is bad or your tank. (Also this development is a huuuuuuge "fuck you" for anyone with an disability especially mental ones) sorry but for me the thing is pretty clear, if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl or ho play dark souls or go play the content that's labeled as hard
@@sepphero9639 just saying "no." Doesn't refute my arguement nor does it diminish the simple truth I stated. At no point does the OP make anything close to your argument, I have no idea what post you're reading but it isn't this one. Please go away. And by the way if you are like the OP and have anxiety so bad you "can't handle" even being in a party with other players then MMO's arent for you because they are designed for Massive MULTIPLAYER Online gameplay, and you should seriously get help and stop demanding everything cater to you and your poor life decisions.
@@sepphero9639 " if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl " You do know that doing the raids right now is basically min iLVL right? Most of these raids are about right for current content. Welcome to not being overgeared I guess?
See, I read that post but I never took that comment to mean that. I took it more like ‘I’m quite used to dying, but if I’m looking around and seeing lots of other people dead as well, it must be too difficult’. Perhaps I picked it up wrong
I don't heal anymore, but when I did i experienced the same feeling. When you have another player in a complex fight that refuses to be aware of the mechanics that can be avoided and is having a "dirt sandwich" at the same mechanic for a 5th time it's frustrating, and an unnecessary drain on a limited MP pool.
I completely disagree with the idea the game is “too hard now” but I really don’t like people saying that people who feel they can’t do them shouldn’t care because it’s “optional content.” The raid storylines are a huge part of the game, and a lot of people want to experience that story, it’s a big thing to do during the patch cycle, it’s not just about the difficulty. So I agree, we should encourage players, help carry those who need it so they can experience some of the best written story of the games, and dismissing people who want to experience the story but feel the content is too hard with “get gud” isn’t fair to them
I wrote a really encouraging post to this person in the forums. I don't believe that content in FF14 or any MMO isn't "for you" Everyone is a human being, we all adapt and we're all on different steps of that journey. Nothing worth achieving is without errors or shortcomings. We may be bloodied sometimes, but we are unbowed.
the casual content need ot be clear it need to have clear nechanics otherwise it difficult enough that it not relaxing and non relaxing content isnt casual content .
@@anteprs7908 The casual content is clear. I'm not speaking from a non-casual perspective. This content might be new more challenging but it's not out of your ability to succeed. Nothing is. Nothing ever will be no matter how difficult. This content is new but it isn't insurmountable. Achievement comes at the cost of failure.
@@anteprs7908 it is & the pacing in the game is meant to have marginal gains in skill through the intended game design - most of us just get rushed through content by total strangers due to laziness on parsers' parts to homogenize player practices instead of optimizers/efficiency-enjoyers simply pre-forming their parties, like they're supposed to, instead of blind matchmaking aka cold-queuing with Duty Finder. It turns out rushing people through their journey ever widens the skill gap & upsets the pace of an otherwise well-designed learning curve 🤯
@@NotTheWheel it annjoying and casual content shouldnt be annjoying mechanics have ot be clear as day ot be good for casuals (most) to enjoy many of us enjoyed ew dung and now we dont get any content similiar ot it we simpel get f out of a game . the mechanics in the last 2 dungs and last trail aint clear they chaotic that are a 180 from ew it night and day and we simple dont like that .
@@meteorwalkergg if the content has unclear mechanics aka confusing not easy ot learn on first try it not godo casual content simple as that the lv 97 and lv 99 dung are perfect examples of that . we aitn seeking a learning curve i just wanna do the DAM MSQ i aint here ot study this isnt school i didnt come to learn for get stress in content made to not be stressful or have much failure i got life for that i dont come to game to feel that bs .
I think people are giving way too much attention to this post. The vast majority of people are on neither end of the casual-elitist scale, and will simply do what they've always done: adjust to whatever the game provides. We've seen it in throughout the Alexander raids, from people leaving Savage because of the statstick difficulty, to coming back to it as it became more approachable even if the mechanics became more complex. We've seen it in Endwalker, with the more serious players coming up with ways to challenge themselves during the easier content (running without healers, for example). And we'll see it in Dawntrail, with the more casual players starting to pay more attention to fights and going beyond their comfort zone. I agree that just dismissing the post out of hand is the wrong move, but I don't think it's something that should be taken at face value either. Because there is a limit to not having the ability/desire to put in the effort required. Someone in the thread mentioned how they couldn't clear some of the MSQ dungeons, because they were hindered by the Trust system relying on player skill. And at that point I think it's valid to ask if they should continue playing. Because almost every hobby has a certain barrier of entry that needs to be cleared at some point. For a crass example, if your hobby is reading and you suffer from extreme dyslexia, then you'll either have to put in some effort of dealing with that disability; or you'll have to live with it or walk away. There might be ways publishers can help you, but it's not something you can (nor should, imo) rely on. And from personal experience, the majority of these "the game is too hard" posts fall into the "not willing to put in the effort" category. Most of the people who have legit issues accept that these issues exist and try to work around them, instead of just asking on the forums for change.
While i absolutely agree that casual content is at a really good place in DT it has also shown a more toxic side of the community that i feel has been growing recently. I felt myself be influenced by it recently when i was playing with one of my friends who has slowly started playing xiv. So, so much of what i consider obvious, basic knowledge is just never taught to players by the game. My friend did the xvi even just after finishing 2.0 and was so confused when the button mashing mechanic came up, and all the different markers in the game are also just never explained, and thats just a small part of everything ive just thought of as basic knowledge. I think now is a good time to just take a breath and actually help out these players cus when shit is actually explained to u, this content really isnt that hard, but going in without all the prerequisite knowledge we all just take for granted... i can see why some of them are struggling rn
As someone who is a casual player. I love what they have done! The combat is blast. I don't feel like normal combat or even normal raids is at an extreme level hard. It's really okay to die. Failing is fine. I was getting bored of the combat. I felt I was being given a participation trophy doing normal content, normal raids and so forth. Yes I have died a lot during this expansion while doing dungeons, trials, normal raids. I even joke about being a floor lala 😂. The telegraph in dawntrail imo isnt bad at all lol. The game even alerts you before something big happens. Sometimes you have to do something more than once to learn. I was barely doing damage because I was observing mechanics I kept on failing at to learn. Watching my teammates. Once I got a hang of it ... I started to deal more DMG. I am happy with the level of difficulty they pushed in normal mode because I was truly bored. The slight turn up on difficulty they implicated isn't at all extreme level. Yes I am casual but I have done some extreme sync because I like to push myself sometimes.
To me dying in content others already cleared isn't fun. I lie on the floor, the others resolve the mechanic and I hardly learn anything. I run dungeons with Trusts precisely because if I die, I have to restart and therefore learn the fight. Since I am still catching up (mostly, I am in DT at least) I never really had to run content more than once. Poetic gear was easily available so running raids more than once felt unnecessary. So I never really learned many of the fights.
If your not into mmorpg of course it’s going to be hard and it’s learning curve we all are not the same it’s gonna take a while. Get that trust, prepare to fail a lot, don’t be scared and eventually pass that trial it’s gonna be worth it. I promise you that
Floor mat learning can be the scariest part of the game. It takes me time to learn bosses and dying in bosses tends to frustrate people. I think we need to learn to accept people dying more and listening less to the min maxxers who do this for a living.
ngl everyone who complains about this....its a skill issue and maybe try to get better? i never done any extreme content before dawntrail and i got through the story easily. yes u had to wipe and learn a couple times at some bosses but it wasnt that hard at all. and yesterday after wiping for 2.5hours i completed my first extreme. stop complaining and use ur brains...ur smart enough im sure of it :)
@@stormkeeper1741bro you know that people with disabilities even weighed in on this in the forum, so I wouldn't be too quick to fall back in the disabilities argument
@syverah_nahja4047 I know, I read the entire post because I'm a crazy person. I'm just saying it's not always a "git gud" situation. A lot of the times, sure, but not always. Pretending that there can't be some disabilities, such as neurological issues, nerve damage, and so on that can affect gameplay is a little ridiculous. Though I'm of the mind if they are that bad, perhaps the game isn't for them.
Zodiark and hydaelyn were harder than dawntrails first 2 trials. The lvl81 dungeon was just as hard and the dead ends was way harder that the lvl100 dungeon. 5.3s trial is harder than all the trials in dawntrail. The only difference is the innovation in mechanics and the expert dungeons being harder. Also keep in mind that heavensward was way harder than all of this combined due to how jobs worked lol.
Enjoyed your vid as always. Really agree with everything in the 2nd half. People who get upset about skill level in normal content, especially when queuing through roulette are clowns. I don't think anyone wants to suck at this game, despite people putting various levels of "effort" into playing it. I think there's a way of helping people who want to be help without being antagonistic. That said, even if people wanna coast and have things be easier, I think we need to accept that cause that's what the devs want. It's a numbered Final Fantasy game. They've taken great steps to make the game accessible. As such they are partly responsible for this situation as they've made earlier dungeons way easier. I remember resubbing in March and doing a ShB dungeon with my newbie friend. I was explaining the issues with a certain boss and some other person was like, what are you talking about? Only to later realise that they had completely nerfed that mechanic. They do that with everything. So someone who started later on and who's playing an MMO for the first time won't be prepared for the "difficulty" spike of a current expansion. I think for the poster to say that they don't enjoy the fights in the current expansion is fair. I haven't done the DT stuff yet, so I can't comment on the difficulty. But I remember hating all the ShB dungeons except 3 (2 of which were at the end of the expansion) but loving all the EW ones. Enjoyment had little to do with difficulty per se. But things people don't enjoy tend to become (more) difficult. That said, this person should probably take advantage of the Trust system to learn the fights more. I agree with Aitherea that it could be improved in multiple ways, but it still removes a lot of variables and lets you focus on yourself, mechanics and positioning. I think overall it helps people learn a fight in a more chill environment. A final note, I didn't take her comment about the other players in the same way that Aitherea did. I don't think she was calling the other bad. I think she was trying to empathise with them swing how they are going through what she had to go through. And the poster is disheartened by seeing others go through what she had to, knowing they'll have to die (in her mind at least) multiple times before anyone can progress. Ultimately the devs will have to decide what they want cause they can't keep telling FF players (especially) to come play their game and dw about fighting while also making them have to care about fighting. Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Also, Crystal is a great place to learn and do trials *because* of the RPers and gposers. They want that glam too and they wanna help people get that glam or their crafting mats. (And I say this as a non RPer). There are some really good players on Crystal.
I am one of the "not good" players. I have rheumatoid arthritis and essential tremor in my hands, so I'm never going to be a good player no matter how hard I try. I do all of the dungeons via Duty Support or Trust. I sit for days working up the courage to do Trials because I have to do them through Duty Finder and once I get through it, I never do it again. Sometimes I get people in DF who are kind and encouraging, other times I get jerks who complain or who let me lay on the floor dead because I missed a mechanic. It is what it is. I haven't started DT yet, specifically because I'm sort of dreading the uptick in difficulty.
@@qamarqammar7629 I see what you're saying but I still like Trusts for learning mechanics. Especially in their instance where they mention healers leaving them for dead. You definitely won't learn much lying on the floor. Might as well watch a YT vid telling you what to do at that point. Hopefully this person can find a teaching FC or a static that likes running dungeons. I think then your advice would apply better than with DF which seems to be the OP's current way of doing things.
@@idno4856 I agree. I love Trusts. I wish they were available for everything. Unfortunately the biggest difficulty gate in MMOs can be the people not the mechanics. And a sympathetic dungeon group would help.I really believe this game can be played by anyone. Even in DT.
@@lauranichols8337 Players who are "not good", or play very little and wander into any and all Duty Finder content are more than you might realize, especially now with a new expac. It doesn't matter what people think of you. As long as you are trying you are within your rights. Anyone in DF has already agreed to play with random people. And that means random skill levels. Dawntrail is fun and very interesting. It is not so much that it is harder, rather, it is different. The mechanics are similar, but the graphics are unfamiliear - if you've done any Variant dungeons you will immediately feel at home with it. If not, now is the time to see it. You can do all the dungeons and every Trial in the MSQ with Trusts except for the last Trial. The last Trial is not particularly difficult, a bit chaotic at the end, and you won't be the only newcomer on the floor. Many players make a point of running the new content blind and they all make mistakes, so now is a great time to jump in. The last Trial is only about 8 minutes (?) long don't deprive yourself of a great experience because 7 random people you will never see again might see you make mistakes! have fun!
15:40 The game does teach you what those are. It does it by putting them in dungeons/solo duties/normal trials etc and lets you figure them out. The exact same way we are shown every other mech and marker in the game. They're included with no overlap or anything else so it's easier to realise what it is.
I’m really glad damage actually is threatening now, and it really adds to my experience in the story. I remember during the 2nd trial really feeling the intensity of the fight and the struggle of the WoL. I was playing Sage, and I remember mid fight feeling my character stomp their foot on the ground and scream “I won’t let you kill anyone else!” and proceed to heal mitigate like my life depended on it. It was really eye opening to how these moments raise the story experience. It was that feeling that made me try current content Extreme for the first time, and it’s a blast. I’m even considering going into Savage when it comes out. I’m excited to see how far I can go now, and to watch my progress as a healer.
For a game that costs a subscription fee, I'm pretty sure a lot of people aren't really interested in caring about the opinions of elitists or overly tryhard players that act like the game is their entire personality. For many MANY players, they understand that the game is shared with different types of players with their own style and preferences and perspectives on how the game "should" be played... but honestly, no one is paying money to conform to how another player(s) dictates they should play the game. THAT is the issue that I see far too often and it's never-ending. Content that requires skill and coordination like raids etc. it is understandable to have a certain level of expectation, but there are many instances where certain situations are not that big of a deal if someone doesn't know all the ins-and-outs of their class even if they are at a "high lvl" that took many hours to obtain. You'd be surprised at how many lvl 100s exists in the game that are just people who are chillin' and never take combat too seriously. With all that said, if anyone makes a PERSONAL CHOICE to play with random players instead of a pre-made group, then you should lower your expectations (sometimes drastically) because you're dealing with RANDOM players. In fact, you shouldn't have expectations at all because you don't know who these players are, or their backstory, or their lifestyle, or their gameplay/skill level, etc... so it's foolish to expect them to know EVERYTHING or even half of the knowledge that you know. If they do then it's a plus, but just like how you can't have a lot of expectations for people IRL, the same is true (or even more true) in this game. No one wants to waste time or subscription money having a bad time/experience, so if playing with random people results in you having a bad time, THEN AVOID PLAYING WITH RANDOM PLAYERS. Otherwise, be more understanding that you will most likely be dealing with bad players if you're gambling on what teammates you will receive. If you're not playing with statics or pre-mades, then you are always gambling.
Good video clap clap clap, I like it^^ I rly enjoy the current normal raid tier a lot even as an multi legend, its finally engaging enough to enjoy it. But I can definitely understand the real real Casual point of view aswell, which is why I think it would be rly about time for square Enix to introduce a reworked tutorial/mentor system that helps ppl already in the early game and during the progression to higher levels to prepare them to prevail in content. Making an unskipable tutorial that teaches your job pick and battle system would be rly helpful I think. And it continues like with one tutorial Each expansion 50/60/70/80/90 and so on.
I like how even-handed you were in this video. I'd say I agree with all your points and I especially appreciated your defense of "bad" players especially in normal content. Also I've played this game for eight years and still forget my rotations or mess up mechanics. Sometimes I confuse dungeons or get tunnel vision. Skill and execution aren't these static things where if you can clear a Savage tier you're suddenly never terrible again. Mistakes happen.
I started playing pre Shadowbringers after a friend finally convinced me to try the free trial and have been hooked ever since. I will enter times of obsession where it is all I play and then I'll take a break for months and eventually come back to catch up on what I missed. It has been the single most positive and generally fun MMOs I have ever played. Everyone on the Exodus server and connecting worlds is so nice and helpful. I've only ever been called out once for being "bad", which was on the first time I did Ravana and was dying a bit to the point I wasn't "contributing to the DPS" enough for this person. However they were quickly told to be quiet by others in the group I didn't even know. All that being said, I do feel for this person. I consider myself more of an "advanced casual" where I am willing to learn mechanics and often know what I am doing, but will still die to stupid stuff I should see coming. Dawntrail has been a fantastic expansion for me, but there were some fights I just generally didn't like. Granted doing them more and more I will overcome the issues I have with them, but I get what they are saying about the spike in difficulty. If you are just trying to clear the MSQ you don't want to feel discouraged to do so when you keep dying to a mid dungeon boss. Like you said, this is still early for these particular raids and they are optional content so they can always be done later on. I just feel like people are feeling discouraged because they feel like they are a detriment to their party if they die to a mechanic that everyone else avoided easily. The Honey Bee fight in particular, I felt blind sided in the "performance" part where you have one heart already and have to stand in a circle that gives you another heart only to have a very small window to dodge being granted a 3rd heart and being stunned. That hit me a few times on my first run. I personally wasn't mad about it, but I can understand the frustration. Ultimately it comes down to "learning the fight" however. I definitely agree we need to push for encouragement rather than trying to tear down people because they don't meet our expectations. If you are concerned about players not knowing were to go, you can use the "dorito" icon to help guide them on the right path. I've had many kind people including my friends do that for me and others. I just don't like the gatekeeping and entitlement that comes out sometimes. This is a mostly cooperative game and we all need to work together.
While you have some good points. I have to hard disagree on two things. Lvl 100 means something. That means they spent time with that class. time enough to learn how to play it, even if they story skipped and lvl skipped, that's at least enough time to wrap your head around keep stance on and press cooldowns, heal people, press your shiny buttons. I expect my level 100 tank to know that they have more then rampart as a cooldown. The other is the 'well you can just leave' well they can just use trust. How is it fair to me that I have to either spend 45min stuck in a dead ends roulete because my team dies every boss at least twice, or be stuck waiting 30 min due to me leaving. Time is a commodity you can't get back. When you que with random people, you do have a responsibility to preform at some level. that's why you can't just afk. If you have such anxiety or discomfort preforming at a minimum play level, then don't que up in roulettes. I don't have much expectations for most randos in roulettes, im a crystal player and a sav/ult player. If people mess up I usually just danger dorito and tell people to follow me or loose a gcd or two to type what they need to do. I know being belligerent or calling them out harshly does nothing so I don't. However we have reached an impass now that people think telling others that. At a lvl that can possibly take HUNDREDS of hours to reach you should at lesat have a grasp how to play. I think ff strongest thing is that it does catter to a lot of different type of players and 100% welcome that fact. However, just like when the P12S mount made people rage that a 'cute' mount was behind savage. So is every sav mount, so is every ult weapon. If they wanted it more then they wanted to complain, they would study and get it.
I used to think that max level meant something, but after playing the game long enough I've realized there are many people who hit max level who understand very little of their kit. Black Mages who only use ice spells, Ninjas that only use AoE ninjutsu even on single target boss fights, and Scholars that never use abilities that cost Aetherflow. I agree with Aitherea though, it's not a big deal. Players at that low of a skill level are a tad uncommon and likely the content will take about an extra 5 minutes to clear. It's not that hard to carry people in normal content.
@@SuperTwoU Sorry for replying to this after a month, but to build off your point I have one word. Esuna. The amount of healers who apparently don't even have that on their bar is staggering.
Healers that like to heal are in heaven. As they are getting to make a difference in the fight. While green dps are in hell as they are being called out for not doing their job. The problem is not the fight. But the attitude of green dps.
literally had a DRK all-caps screaming at our WHM in a run today because they just tossed a Regen on them and went on DPSing. We wiped 4 times in Alexandria because they refused to heal. Tank was doing all their mits, we DPS were trying our best to not get hit (some mechs are still gettin' learned tho~), so it's not like we were demanding too much of the WHM. We got through it on the 5th attempt because they switched to *only* healing and no DPSing out of spite. :P
White mages are a different breed xD As PLD i'm quite self sufficient so i can laugh about it but it's still objectively sad to witness those people unwillingness to heal at all.
Oooo true, I actually noticed many healers slacking on heals when I switched to Pictomancer for the expansion and I wondered what's up with that 🤣 Not my healer main ass giving my only shield to a tank during a pull bc they're fucking dying cause the Astro is too busy spamming Gravity 🗿🗿
to be honest i don't think its that difficult however casual players carry the games lifespan the more the game is inviting the more the game grows every mmo is Casual>hardcore population it just simple. I do feel most will get over the sting of it being to difficult though. Start focusing on one extreme or the other is bad im sure they will find a good balance though
I am sure most casual player out there enjoy this level of difficulty look at the comment on the forum It's more positive than negative and I think I like it
@@anteprs7908 and where are the causal do you think it is then ? if they have that much why not come and say something like or dislike agree or disagree on the matter of difficality that happen and what Definition of "causal" do you mean to who?? just people like op ??
I've been playing since late? Shadowbringers and been pretty much an MSQ main, and outside of that only really engaging with content like 24-mans, leveling up new jobs in Bozja, stuff like that. That's all I needed to get a kick out of the game, as anything more chaotic than that like EX/Savage trials just looked like way too much for my poor ADHD bogged brain to handle. Yet, Dawntrail has been the expansion that really just turned a light on in me. Wait, I actually get to die to mechanics for not paying attention and my job is now keeping others alive and not just the tank as they pull wall to wall? Dungeons haven't felt this at-first punishing but on a second try genuinely just really fun in a long time. Hell, it got me to *actually* use the Party Finder and try to join practice parties for the first EX Trial. All this to say, I LOVE the direction they're going in with battle content this expansion. If it gets a casual scrub like me to say "Okay, but what if I actually tried? If I can handle this, surely I can try going a step above", then they must be doing something right.
welcome to doing content minimum ilvl since no one is currently overgeared all old normal difficulty content done minimum ilvl no echo (MINE) settings feels like this; just spicy enough to be interesting since not respecting mechanics results in death, but the mechanics themselves are easy to figure out and execute if you pay attention especially ARR optional dungeons, nothing humbles u like pharos sirius MINE >:]
I'll make an analogy for these people and what the FF14 content trajectory has done for the past 3 or so years. When people go into zero gravity environments they have to constantly workout. If they don't then due to the lack of gravity their muscles will begin to seriously atrophe to an unhealthy point. Much like a space station, FFXIV's content in the past has expected significantly less out of the playerbase the last couple of expansions. This has led to the skill floor of the community even for people who do most content beginning to degrade. Its been constant casual content with practically zero gravity. The only people who have been keeping up are those who intentionally seek the stimulation in EX and above content who have been the ones cheering the loudest for this shift. Now that FF has course corrected people have begun to feel the burn as their atrophed skillsets now have to work and grow. This is a good thing and they need to be patient through the discomfort and initial difficulty. If they stick with it they will get better and grow not only as a player but as a person. Struggle and failure breeds success and improvement. A lesson that feels lost in our modern instant gratification age. I encourage those struggling with the difficulty and personal growth to keep going. Before long you won't even recognize yourself with how far you have come. Just keep grinding and even if you don't become an Ultimate raider or Savage master. You'll still have improved and that is its own reward.
@@EdgeGilidokay tbh i straight up don't think this is true. i admit I'm very casual, I've never done and EX or savage, but for me a lot of the raids from endwalker were plenty difficult enough to have fun in them. I don't really feel that way with some of these raids or dungeons. and i think this attitude of "you will grow as a person" is the same git gud bs that people use to say that introducing any mechanics to fromsoft games that could make them more accessible is heretical and stuff. yes some of those fights in end walker were pretty easy, but many were plenty difficult too. i think stuff like phoenix, pandaemonium, Athena, even endsinger and zodiark. for dt i think valigarmanda was very good, as was honey b, but i don't think so with bomb boy and eutrope. I'm pretty mixed on sphene, but i guess it was just a kinda forgettable fight aside from the everything combo. but yeah idk I don't feel like I've "grown as a person" because i did eutrope or whatever, or that becoming better at predicting the damage frames so i can start running to the next safe zone before the attack lands on my screen is that fun gameplay.
@@HoneyDoll894 if "you will grow as a person" is the same thing as the git gud meme to you then im sorry but something is wrong with you fundamentally. growing, learning and being wiser are some things what makes us humans human. those example you mentioned are only difficult the first couple of times you encounter them, same thing as what is happening right now. lots of things looks and feels different because they are new but as you do them repeatedly you grow accustomed to them, they'll become more and more easily manageable. no one is good the first time, through practice some one grows. i myself going through zodiark for the first time had issues as well, our group wiped for like 4 times but what i did instead of complaining in the forums is to learn the fight like everybody else would. I honestly think if having a challenging gameplay is something you don't enjoy, might as well stay away from games that has any aspect of combat in it.
@@EdgeGilid okay the smug "better stay away from games that have combat" bit is just funny and revealing. I don't mind challenge, when i want a challenge thats totally cool, but in ff14 i feel the game already had challenge for me at a level i felt comfortable at. And the level of challenge in some of the ones just feels frusturating instead of fun, the same way i think elden ring is a worse game than ds3 because elden ring feels less fun in the challenge.
Hi 🙂 As a player who has struggled a lot with learning mechs & having mechs go off at the same time as the telegraph appears in the past, I surprisingly find the new content fun! It truly is about learning the mechs & doing your best to avoid them. New content will always take time & patience to learn. Deaths happen & each time is an opportunity to learn. Everyone learns at their own pace, so I think patience is needed .
I spent two days with a trust party in Anamnesis Anyder, but it was so satisfying to finally clear it. Regarding difficulty in content, it's a rather thornier issue. I have ADHD so sometimes content that some might consider easy or normal level are quite hard on me. I agree more engaging content is always better and more fun.
I usually play healer to go around queues but also so I can help people that sometimes struggle because its easier for me to keep everyone alive rather that random healers dying and then wipe, but it's insane to me that people think this is "hard" coming from other mmos this is regular difficulty or even "Easy" difficulty and tbh it's not even that "hard" you just have to pay attention because it's insane how many people don't pay attention and start complaining before even trying to understand and nomral raids are ok in difficulty yeah they have a lot of mechanics for a lot of people specially casual players, but there's nothing wrong with dying and trying again I would say its even better to die and learn than to die and quit because you get mad at the game, if you wipe try to let the group know if you understood the mechanic and someone else didn't that's why we play as a party so we can all learn and help each other
I've tanked honey B twice 2nd time I only died once and the trial before the last one I managed to do without dying but on that I had a fantastic co tank helping through guiding me
I agree with you, we need more people that will be patient and help people learn more. The hardest part is the fact that someone can story skip and lvl skip, play the new content and 3 days as whatever class. This is thw hardest part, but there are some that do have patience and will down vote a quit vote. - Wyther Wintersongs - Zalera
Very well said Not to mention that people still haven't learned their openers or roatition on their level 100 jobs also wait you play on crystal I also play on crystal and Honestly even tho I haven't done any harder content outside of ew extremes and some of the older savages like hw and arr savages I can honestly say that dying in an normal raid can be very good because thats means that your are dying to an mech and if you want to get past that mech that you need to study it and learn what to do Its honestly refreshing to have the normal raids somewhat a bit harder!
It is personally very weird to me that after a minimum of 500 hours spent in the game, people still refuse to get better. Difficulty should increase with expansions to allow people to use their toolkits, as they have hundreds of hours of progressing through the game. Current difficulty of dungeons, trials and raids is in a very good spot, engages the players and builds on mechanics from the previous expansions, such as Shiva, Barbaricia, Leviathan etc.
I think the biggest issue is that it's the beginning of an expansion, people are used to being overgeared for content now so having to gear up now is making things seem harder than it is.
I'm so tired of people misunderstanding the word 'casual'. It's more about time commitment than difficulty, both are relevant, but it's moreso the former. Also, as a mostly casual player, I don't want the game to be braindead! I hope they keep this kind of dungeon content. It's an actually realistic curve from Dungeons - Raids/Trials - Extreme - Savage. It's an MMO, time to act like a player in one. Use chat, talk, encourage, ask questions, _engage._ I was doing a Normal Raid roulette just yesterday and got that Trash Collector boss in Alexander. Wiped like 5 times, everyone was talking, had a good attitude, and we cleared! Even though it took longer than I was expecting, it was a good time. Don't let yourself suffer in silence.
I consider myself a pretty casual player, to the point where I've barely played any Dawntrail dungeons/trials without Duty Support. I didn't really notice an uptick in difficulty, but maybe that's also in part because I played most of it as a Paladin and the rest as Viper. I'm only now leveling my first healer job, having gone from CNJ 16 to WHM 55 over the past week or so. So I'm focusing on other content right now, but sooner or later I'll go through the Dawntrail dungeons again to make sure that I remember the mechanics before I play them with other players. That's always a good starting point.
This has been one of my favorite expacs as far as mechanics and bosses go. I love the new difficulty and i dont mind trying a boss multiple times, even explaining mecanics and using the "Dorito of Guidance" to help ppl clear. I look forward to future content at this new normal level of difficulty.
I literally just got through The Mothercrystal on my Trial Roulette today with a couple players that either didn't know or forgot how that fight works. They were constantly dying and nearly wiped us by running away with one of the multistacks. I get that it probably didn't feel good to them to be playing so badly but I actually didn't mind it and it added a bit of stress to a fight I barely engage with as a healer with a good group. It kind of is a case of those players accepting that they did poorly and moving on rather than calling for nerfs to encounters. I like when it feels like some actual stacks are on the line, I like to be challenged a little. If making fights that casual players can't quite grasp is the price to get that, I'm fine with it and will do what I can to help them so they can be fine with it too.
There's nothing like the rush of tring to heal and MIT a group stack with four people in it. Also, it's totally okay to wait on the rez, just watch the mechanics for a moment, calm down, and come back when you get the flow of battle.
I've definitely noticed a bump up in the level of focus needed for normal content. I usually like to use the trust system to get familiar with the mechanics of dungeons before I step in as I don't want to disappoint the party I'm with. Unfortunately, Tender Valley wasn't an option for this when I did it for the first time yesterday. Gladly, I was in a patient group that was okay wiping a few times (we wiped at lest once to each boss) but we (and be we I mean I) learned from it and got through. I pick things up a little slower than others, but for the most part, I appreciate that people are nice or at least not mean about it. I usually figure it out eventually or ask for a little help when needed. I don't want the content to be adjusted. I did M1 the other night and it was a lot of fun wiping a few times and having people joke about it and discuss how not to die next time. We all had a good cheer when we finally cleared it and that is what the MMO experience is supposed to be, IMO.
Looooong time player here (since closed beta in 2013). Every Time there is an expansion the Overall Difficulty Rises... and people complain. 😂 -- The Healers complained because the tanks didn't need them and they were heard and now they are needed. The tanks and melee complained because the dungeons were too easy, guess what... now there is a challenge. So Yoshi P and the development team raised the difficulty to appease the demand that people do their job and not just slop through. -- There are also complaints in the beginning of every expansion about the mechanics, but avoiding those is a learned skill, that causes the player to think in different ways. 🙃if this long time 70 year old player with arthritic hands can learn and adapt then a 20-something player should have no problem at all once they learn how to think things through. -- your suggestions about the trust are very good, hopefully Yoshi P. see's that.
Im not sorry,if you dont understand stack markers and not standing in the glowing yellow aoe marks by level 100 you are objectively playing wrong and should shut up about difficulty.
WHM main here. Did the 4th raid with all first timers. It was a blast. It's fun to learn. The one thing i already suggest as a tip as a healer is; you don't always have to be in the clear. If you can't make it to the safe spot try to make it to the safest spot you can. Like being in only one mechanic instead of overlapping. We will heal you. But learn to have fun with the challenge.
I'm quite the captain average and I made it through Dawntrail all right. Two things helped me improve though, I used the benchmark to tweak my game configurations to get as little lag as possible (I'm close to the minimum laptop requirement, so that helps a lot); and a friend told me to look for visual cues on the boss, like arm raising and energy gathering, etc. My last advice, tank. You can eat so much more stacks and attacks before dying and queues are faster. ^_^
Listening to this I laughed because I have always died a lot while learning normal fights in a new expansion. I don’t think it should be expected to watch a video of an msq dungeon due to spoilers - maybe the second or third time lol - so so we’re coming in unprepared as the game intends. Also, yeah, I’m not a very good player, but I try. Thanks for mentioning those of us who struggle to put in place the advice seen on a video or from other players on the first (or second) try.
This expansion has given us a bit more in terms of difficulty. I truly appreciate it! I like the new dungeons, trials and raids! A bit more difficulty that forces you to pay some form of attention is good. I am actually enjoying and looking forward to roulettes for higher duties. If you fail, just try again! :3
i agree with every single one of your points in this video. it's been so baffling for me to see people getting so bent about the difficulty of the fights right off the bat. like, give it a month at least, surely? and then the next time you queue it there will be at least a few people on your team who know exactly what they're doing. complaining about the difficulty after like two days is astonishing to me. do these people not remember Eden's Verse: Iconoclasm ??????
I've not seen any issues with difficulty so far (but I have been doing MMOs for... a while >.>), but it has been fun. I am not quite done with MSQ (but I think I am close), and the biggest thing I had trouble with was the...second boss in the first dungeon, I think. Most chaotic set of telegraphs I have EVER seen, and I was laughing my butt off (was also running with FC mates, so, that helps). I think when it comes to folks having trouble, we should offer tips and encouragement. I'm not a mentor, but I have taught folks, both sprouts and notsprouts (can they even still have the sprout icon after 90?) about certain fights if I notice folks struggling before a wipe (the Phantom Dragon in The Burn, for example. Back before Endwalker). I agree, we need to lift folks up, not punch them down, so we can all have a good time in the game.
Bruh your not even my friend list love your attitude toward gameplay, we should lift them up when they are getting hard time, not trash them git gud or this game is not for you go play FarmVille.
I think what they mean by mechanics resolving too quickly to process, is they don’t catch the animation in the arena or off to the side or the boss itself and they’re waiting for the telegraph on the floor but by the time the telegraph shows up it’s almost too late. That’s my guess anyway. But they started doing that a lot in shadow bringers were you actually had to pay attention to what the boss was doing And not just the paint on the floor so it’s not really new maybe just ramped up a little? I think it’s fine though. Definitely more engaging and I like it. And for the record, I am nowhere near an expert. I haven’t done hardly any savage stuff and I get it. But I also have a thing for overcoming adversity. like somebody wise said, the only difference between a master and a beginner is that a master has failed way more times.
People who complain about DT fights being too hard go by the assumption that players are not supposed to LEARN how to complete a mechanic. A fight mechanic is only difficult when you're unfamiliar with it, but once you've understood how it works and have practiced it several times, doing it in the future becomes way easier and way less stressful. The first DT raid tier fights are incredibly fun in Normal and I am so so excited to see them in Savage too.
tbh this might be true a little, i think valigarmanda is a very fun fight, but the first time i did it we wiped like 6 times. I don't think the king bomb and eutrope are fun, but in those runs we wiped 0/1 times, and were carried by healers ressing the team and stuff, so i never quite learned how to properly do the mechanics. still i think the mechanics in those fights are just inherently less fun (more of the move instantly from one side of map to other and mapwide damage zones you have like 1-2 seconds to read and react by moving to the opposite side of the map)
gonna be honest i think personally most of the difficulty comes from actually seeing the mechanics trough the flashing lights and vfx....like i know what the mechanics are I just cant see them
When I did the DT normal raids with my static, we wiped a few times, but we had so much fun. And everyone agreed that these raids are great, way better than EW normal raids. I'm so excited for savage raids.
"Don't play with them" isn't really a valid response imo. Like, yeah, I've carried plenty of parties, but at some point I expect basics like "don't stand in the glowing orange danger zone", which is a constant since ARR to be known. And yes, I've seen people not understand this in DT. If I just leave whenever people are that bad, I legit don't get to play the game anymore.
As someone who plays FFXIV very casually, as in I do not do on content savages or extremes as I cannot keep up with doing damage and dodging mechanics at the same time: Dawntrail isn't actually harder, however, it is more engaging. All of the bosses still have a tell with attacks, this time being more picky on when they do give us the hand holding orange ground tell. We shouldn't be looking at the ground, we should be looking at the boss. The Time for Tells going off, regardless if they show on ground or show from boss is roughly about the same. Casual content is still casual, it's just, you're not attacking the floor, so paying attention to only the floor during fights doesn't make sense to begin with.
I think the poster is in denial. Denial about getting older. I say this because Stormblood during launch had difficult dungeons. Shinryu fight at the end had people frustrated to no end. It wasn't uncommon for that trial on normal required more than one lockout. And not to mention the alliance raid was notoriously difficult. The whole reason why a lot of people complained about lack of difficult in endwalker was because we were still riding high from stormblood and many missed it. The Dawntrail was the revival of the halcyon days.
I very much agree with you on pretty much everything you said 🙂 it's weird how ppl can't decide that something isn't for them then it's a huge deal worthy of negative comments harassment etc some things r for some some things r for others that's okay
First time I did the first boss in the Carnival dungeon, my party died many many times. We eventually beat it. Or rather, I as the tank eventually beat him by soloing him for the latter half of his HP while the party watched. I was just the first to figure out the fight and my tank job had enough self healing to cover any mistakes I made.
I remember when I started playing final fantasy 14 for the first time. And I couldn't even get past a level of 32 dungeon. I was struggling, and I was pretty much ready to quit the game right then and there. But I received encouragement by other people around me to just get better and learn my job; better learn the mechanics better and I did and I got past it and got better. I really learned how valuable it was to just get better at the game as you progress in getting higher levels. And now I love doing extreme content. I love doing savage content and these people. I think need to learn the same lesson.
I like the new raids but it does make me very conscious of the limits my ADHD gives me. I have processing speed in the impaired range and while I have been able to get through the past game content, these raids are pushing those limits because it takes a lot more concentration to dodge and figure out the patterns/mechanics. I'm sure to the rest of my party it looks like I'm not trying hard enough to dodge but the sustained concentration to do that takes a lot out of me. I probably will never expect myself to do savage content and that's fine. However a lot of the new raid mechanics I have to dodge are faster than I can follow. I feel bad dying 5+ times each raid and I don't blame anyone if I get zero commendations which is typically what happens starting out unless a friend gives me a pity commendation. At that point, I feel like I'm being a burden on the team. It's gonna take me maybe 3 or more times playing the same raids for me to die less. Even then, there are still parts of the battles in Dawntrail where I still die in consistently like certain parts of the Vanguard dungeon where there's a ton of lasers to dodge. If the healers are enjoying raising me 8+ times, I cannot tell. Its more mortifying to start out doing this content that I don't really feel like this is content I would want to do everyday for sure. Once a week might be okay spaced out but it does make me sad that I can't do this content more without being terrible or inconsistent at staying alive.
@kawaiikanako71 as a fellow ADHDer with a slower processing speed I feel this comment so much! Thankfully I’ve got a group of friends that understand and help me through learning the mechanics. But it’s definitely something that makes me hesitant to run content with randoms. That’s the only point in the video I have to argue is that people do in fact have different levels of processing speeds.
I should have added that, that being said I am enjoying DT content and finding it fun even if it is a little more mentally taxing for me. I definitely take more breaks to farm fates. 😅 But I recognize that because of my processing speeds I will never be a savage content player and I’m ok with that.
I ran the raid series on paladin, but let me tell you what, that sustained damage was taking chunks out of me at 699 ilvl. Raid 2, had me a little raging a bit, but after you really figured it out, you were like, oh that makes sense.
I can just correct one bit on the randomness part. There is one mechanic that feels random, and it's in one of the dungeons (96 I believe?) where you become a nuisance to your teammates and blow bubbles at them. Otherwise the original poster is off his rocker. I've enjoyed the difficult bump thus far. The EXs are fun! Like a lot of fun. Although we're not quite back to The Orbonne Monastery level difficulty for 'normal' content (yet). I loved the Thunder God fight pre-nerf.
If you look through the official forum posts while there are folks who are being dismissive about “bad” players there were also a LOT of people who were encouraging these people as well. At the same time the casual players who are saying it’s too hard are also dismissive to OTHER CASUAL PLAYERS who don’t agree with them. The respect for each level or type of player should be respected across the board.
Solid take. Just started playing FF recently and while the mechanics can be incredibly complicated sometimes, I don't think they're beyond learning. As a casual player I don't really pay any mind to how my dps is or dying at all during fights. There's probably a misconception that players consider themselves more casual when they're actually kinda like "softcore" players who stress enough about certain aspects that it frustrates them. A semi-competitive perspective if you will. I found myself dying to a lot of Dawntrail's mechanics or getting hit because I was staring at my buttons to make sure I was pressing them and I stopped getting hit so often when I started looking at the boss and worrying less about my buttons. TLDR: Samurai seems to have a lot of buttons. Please send help. Casuals, in my experience, don't care about difficulty that much. Some players just mistake themselves for casuals and want instant gratification.
I love the spicy mechanics. I've never been so amped about being a healer. Plus the fights are still brand new, it takes time for the player base to figure them all out. It's okay to die, or even wipe a few times. Just eastern bow the WAR tank that carried the raid, he will love it. Maybe blow the healer a kiss. We got you.
So in a vacuum you are correct to say that that players are not all at this skill level. A point I would like to focus on is that Dawntrail is just the start of a story, it is not the start of an MMORPG in general. At bare minimum these players have already spent hundreds of hours playing the MMO and honestly do need to start improving their skills. Not demanding them do hard content but at bare minimum be competent at the video game of their choice if it's a game they have already sunk hundreds of hours in. These type of hours is roughly the time Speed Runners have or pro-players have to fine tune their skills. All ffxiv is asking now is for them to not be bad anymore at this point.
Theres an easy response to these kinds of posts: Casual doesnt mean EASY, casual means low commitment content! Meaning that by design every piece of content in the game has been designed to be beatable given "ENOUGH" time. Yes, even your granny could beat the hardest Ultimate in the game if they would dedicate enough time to learn, practice and execute what is needed to beat that content. Well of course the time needed to to beat it might take ages, even years possibly but still by design its possible. What this person is unhappy about is that they feel like they should be able to enjoy the game without "any commitment" nor engagement, and just clear the content without any friction since its dubbed "CASUAL". Clearly seen by their dismissal when anyone offers advice and things they could practice on. And that kind of mindset is toxic, even casual players want to enjoy FFXIV just as much high end raider does. Watching a movie and just pressing WAD and 123 is not engaging gameplay to anyone who is even slightly interested in actually playing the game. Not to mention that everything gets easier as patch goes along since parties average item lvl is ever increasing.
The weird dichotomy is that non-casuals reject homogenized design from the devs while insisting on homogenizing the play practices of casuals. It's quite the feedback loop & the definition of insanity 😂
@@anteprs7908 It is casual. It's content that can be cleared by any group min ilvl in a single lockout with no prior knowledge. What is being asked for is that casual content be turned into tourist content.
@@DuelerIsKing it the difficult and unclear mechanic that dont make it ,savage by you logic and ultimates are casusl content to? What bring ask is for cadusl content to not be chaotic and have bad confusing mechanics and it bring ask by the target audeince of the content aka the casuals, you think that making casual content more difficult is what we want to but thar not true the guestion now is how many expantion are left before ffxiv reaches its wow shafowlands phase and nearly die .
I agreed with you until you got on the basics topic, and it pushing your opinion on them. Are the basics not just the average expectations of the player and their role. For instance, a player following the ABC’s, or not using AOE on single targets. Even if a player who doesn’t learn their jobs rotations and plays follow the shinny on their hot bars would be expected to at least perform the basics. Hell the game even has a built in tutorial system for, the basics.
My only expectation is that people do need to AoE trash mobs in dungeons, and even that is more of a "polite advisory" moment. Other than that, I will happily carry someone to the end of a trial, normal raid, dungeon etc, I got Thin Air and Swiftcast, no one stays on the ground long if I can help it.
As a self proclaimed casual player that has barely touched extreme content to find I don't enjoy it - I loved the feeling of normal in Dawntrail. The mechanics were mostly fun, albeit there was a lot that felt unfriendly to casters due to high movement. I am glad I stuck with RDM instead of trying picto for the story because I did a whole lot of rezzing, but that also felt great when my rezzing prevented wipes. The only normal duty I got frustrated at was the second trial, but that's because I got 3 groups in a row that wiped a couple times then abandoned so every time it felt like starting over with more people that didn't know mechanics yet. Opted to run it as trust, and by that time I didn't take a single vuln stack because I knew the mechanics already. All 3 groups I feel if they just stuck it out another couple pulls we would've had it, so my read is that the real problem is people attitude towards learning/wiping thinking it's a waste of time
There is such a balance to strike and of course I'll be biased since I raid and been raiding since ARR, but here are my two cents. There is a large gap of mid content (mid as in middle level) not there. It is either balls hard savage or I sleep casual. I don't even think the idea is to be harder, I just like having fun mechanics. For me I loved Coil Raids, and despised Alex. Omega felt like a good middle. But I still pushed myself. I think there is a way to make things fun and challenging without it being hardcore. And of course as a raider, bring on the hardcore. But when dungeons go as badly as they do some of the times, it makes me wonder if we shouldn't be preparing casual content with something. I know the arguments may come to mention disabilities. But I'm of the mindset of if you really can't handle the game then don't play. I refuse to play Elden Ring cuz it isn't in my wheelhouse of skill but damn do I love the victory I see in others. I shouldn't dictate what a dev envisions and I play casual games as well, but even in those games it feels so boring. You still need to be fun and fun doesn't have to be hard, just engaging. What I'm seeing more of is that anything that requires engagement can make people frustrated, therefore nerfs. It is weird when I look at Animal Crossing and feel that New Leaf is more fun than New Horizons cuz of engagement, both are casual and don't require skill but effort. Either way, I'm all for more modes such as more casual, more mid, more hard. But I dislike when a group wants to change it. Same goes for hardcore getting mad at all easy content, I might get bored but I just avoid it, it isn't right for me to change the way content was intended either. And honestly my advice...I was (probably am) one of the slowest learners and die easily to things. But I just pick up and keep going. And if you can't/won't do that, then walk away. I did that for so many games. Same goes for games that are too easy, I walk away. The idea of 'git gud' gets taken by people who are highly skilled already and can understand the annoyance, but I'm truly not one of those, I can't 'see' mechanics, I can't figure out mechanics, I have to study and slam my head against the wall. But I end up getting it because I try. It is okay to try and be bad, I couldn't even beat titan ex when it was current for weeks. That fight really knocked me out but it taught me a lot. It forced me to engage with my job and mechanics and I'll forever love titan ex for that. I failed it so many times before it clicked. One great advice is, don't get hung up by how people may view you playing. Be honest in your pf, be honest if you're fresh, and even if they leave or say something let it fall off. Me mastering a fight overrides others who have no impact on my life after the duty. And you'll be surprised how you find amazing people who are random. I met some of the greatest people in the world from that and they knew I was a baddie that wanted to try :)
But before talking about a Gap in "Mid Content" you have to define what Mid Content actually is. Also where put the the line between Casual,Mid and Hardcore. You could ask 20 differend People and getting 20 differend Opinions. For one everything above 4ppl Party size is already Mid and for the Other Savage is Mid and for Person 3 even Ultimates are Mid. It is hard to have an Argument when everyone has a differend Opionion about Difficulty Levels.
@@DantoriusD Yeah its all subjective. For me ARR had the best mid content. Hard dungeons that truly were difficulty, the beginning parts of the relic quest. Stuff and yeah I agree for people its subjective that is why its the game and dev's job to create the litmus. It is accordance to what the game determines 'easy', 'middle', 'hard'. I can't create that since its not a game I made. So honestly...I'm saying its not the fans to determine easy, mid, hard its up to the devs and we follow in place. Sometimes the player/customer isn't right and can't make those hard choices. But we can determine we want more content in spaces that is always valid, then we either like it or not. I just want options. In ARR we had easy= dungeons, story, gardening, leveling jobs and their story quests, (gathering/crafter may vary haha) mid=end game dungeons such as hard modes, the primal hard fights, 24 man raid, relic hard= coils, PVP???? (I don't touch PVP lol, not my thing) It is accordance to the game NOT players opinions.
Yes, you are absolutely correct that even somewhat casual players like me feel threatened by these people cause we HAVE precedence that the devs listen to this bs. And the problem is that these people literally are too stupid to learn. I mean, we are at lvl 100 with I don't know how many duties done till you reach that and I STILL see people standing next to a proximity aoe or standing still while having a chase aoe on them and then being surprised that they died. A few days ago I had a MCH that died to almost every mechanic on every boss in Aetherfont. Yes, the Aetherfont dungeon bosses. The only way to cater to these people would be to go back to ARR leveling dungeon levels of mechanics. So yeah, I don't care about their opinions and no one else should.
Content is hard, but as you'll do it more and more you'll eventually learn the mechanics. Also I argue that some Shadowbringer and Endwalker content is still hard by Dawntrail's standard it's just that having done that content more we are more familiar with the mechanics.
I personally like the direction the Duty-Content is going with in Dawntrail, finally a dungeon doesn't feel like smashing my head on the keyboard for 15 minutes straight and then collect my tomestones and leave -> repeat. In Dawntrail i have to actually pay attention to mechanics from the lvl 91 dungeon all the way through to expert roullette Dungeons ( that first boss on the haunted ghost town is a literal pain tho but not that i would not do the content over it). I have the most fun in Dawntrail after MSQ's than ever before i think. All the content in the game is great be it gathering and crafting or Trials and dungeons. Everything is so refreshing for not being braindead content anymore. Pls Yoshi-P don't give in to these whining people on the forum that keep crying for free loot instead of investing the little bit of time it requires to become a better player and pay attention.
@@Seraphima249 this ppl are casual and the content you enjoy is our content you are ruining by wanting it to be harder ,what wad braindead to you was fun for us what fun for you is annjoying for us the only difference is casuals are 80% of the playerbase and pissing thrm off will kill ffxiv in time
It took me a few years of playing FFXIV for it to click in my head that there is absolutely no punishment for dying or even wiping. Once I truly understood that, I stopped being afraid of making mistakes, which helped me keep a clearer head, and then my skill level increased exponentially from where it was before because I stopped being afraid of using duty support to experiment with mechanics, see how much silly nonsense I can get away with. I think there’s a value in -trying to fail- sometimes because you can learn from that. Make challenges for yourself, try something ridiculous, like doing a fight in first person mode as a Lalafell! I mean obviously don’t try to fail while you’re playing with people unless everyone is into it, but the NPCs are so useful for learning. I just wish there was a practice mode with NPCs for MSQ-required trials, but since there isn’t, I watch guides first if I’m feeling unsure. Trying to learn is a fundamental building block to becoming more skilled, even if it takes a while. It took me about three years!
As someone who started this game in April, I really think people underestimate how easy it is to go through this game barely learning mechanics or even the effective way to push buttons. I pretty much only played Dragoon, only started doing daily roulettes during Post Stb (because ilvl gating), and got to 90 in about 60 days. Then Dawntrail comes out, I hit 100 in maybe 8 hours of actual combat. The optimal rotation still leaves me scratching my head, and trying to execute it while not floor tanking. Granted, optimal isn't necessary for normal content, usually. But the point is, DT is the first time (outside of maybe Ivalice raids) that normal content felt actively tuned up and punishing for mistakes. I'm fine with that, it's forcing me to learn the game, learn to adjust my HUD and camera properly, and how to actively notice what's going on on the field and notice the guiding lines and symbols designed into arena. That said, I still need time to learn. I'm going to continue to suck until things actually click.
i think for me at least the two fights of the raid, black cat and honey b were pretty fun! however the bomb and eutrope fights had me on the floor constantly. maybe this is an issue of me playing on NA from EU, but the time from seeing the damage hit, to moving away from the next damage zone is even more difficult than before. Maybe if i did those fights more it'd feel better, but the amount of attacks that come at once in those two fights (as well as the last trial). also i really think theres an issue going on here. you and i agree about wanting to heal, but this is like the pinnacle of powercreep. the tanks have gotten so strong at self heal and mitigation that healers aren't necessary, so the only way to make healers necessary is to make the mechanics so brutal that not even the tank can outheal them, while the healers and dps are drowing in damage. And i think we're at a fine line with the difficulty now. i think honey b and valigarmanda were good, i think the first encounter in the last dungeon was too tight, same for the two last raids. And honestly i do just think that the issue is tanks are too strong. i was doing the cactus dungeon fight, got instakilled by the first attack, and watched the tank stay alive to the end of the fight and eventually solo the boss.
What we need is all the bosses of normal content to do is stand there and auto attack and do nothing else so people don’t have to struggle. It’s the only way. Honestly the DT dungeons are now some of my favorites just because it breaks the boss formula and actually has you to more then just move left or right casually to dodge something while not stopping your rotation.
I think this content is more difficult and I find it enjoyable. My issue is that most of us are learning at the expense of others people’s time and it can get frustrating. I am usually the one dying and hate that I cause others frustration. Some players are more understanding than others and it becomes disheartening when the toxic behavior comes into play. Ex. I was in the Honey Bee fight and it was the first time for both healers along with others. After wipe 3, the tank started complaining to the healers. The healers were doing the best job possible healing and rezzing all the dead players. It made me angry and felt bad for the healers, who were doing their best. I am seeing more of this “toxic” mentality in this expansion. It is NEW content and has a learning curve especially for first timers. I wish people would understand that.
Endwalker seemed to have had a gap for those players who liked engaging content but weren't quite wanting to commit to savage raiding. The lack of a field operation on top of a disappointing easy relic grind has caused many people, those who describe themselves as mid core or casual with no real content to do in the game. Dawntrail is a direct reaponse to this feedback and its refreshing. We're going to get even more. Variants and deep dungeon and field operations but seeing feedback and knowing Devs knee jerk over correction, I can understand why players are getting low key hostile. Endwalker content felt less like a game and more like sleepwalking. People don't want to return to that. The trust trials give you revives in battle. I dont see why they cant add that to trusts.
I love the direction devs are going in. Any issues I ever have are soley with myself, which is why you'll never see me in EX or Savage content. If it gets to the point I just can't do stuff, I'll watch the cutscenes on youtube. What I won't do is whine about other people having fun.
its maybe a bit more nervous than previous expansion, but not that "hard", it just need some learning. Nothing more. Actually i had so much fun through these dawntrail dungeons/trials n.n Arcadion aswell!
People do have to remember that, if you haven't used a story skip to go straight to DawnTrail, you already have to get through Seat of Sacrifice and Voidcast Dais to get to DawnTrail, both of these fights covering basically every complaint in the thread, you can handle the newer content if you can beat those. Examples, SoS's boss fusing fire and Ice to the donut or point blank to catch people off guard. The first raid wide forcing healers to heal or a lot of immediate death occurs. Jumpscare tank LB3 with an awkward timing to correctly use it. Voidcast Dais has shadowed cresent to jumpscare aoe people too close to the boss, and that raw unfiltered chaos of Towers, push back, proximity markers and a very angry dragon aiming a line AoE at someone.
Get gud...in all seriousness I think the mechanic resolving to fast complaint is due to the tell being the bosses animation like raising an arm but people are staring at their hotbar so they only see a telegraph briefly flash on the ground.
I say get gud but I had a viper that died like 7 times. We raised him every time and never complained and will teach people if they are willing to learn and I find people if you don't make them feel bad and just offer mechanical advice will be elated. Had a group wiping on first boss of origenics I mentioned about the arms and said it was similar to boss of holminster switch and they were like oooh I get it now. And we had a good time.
I've seen this forum post fly around a few times and it made me raise an eyebrow, the dungeons and normal raids don't really feel difficult, in fact they are still relatively easy compared to say, a savage fight, which requires multiple hours or days of practice - I genuinely like the new dungeons though, the mechanics are a fun new twist that makes you look at what the boss is doing and understanding mechanical execution, which will mean that people who can wrap their brains around dungeon mechanics a bit better than others will have a better time when trying to get into savage - in fact, i believe in dawntrail we'll see more savage participation than we've seen in Endwalker.
I cant wait for the savage raids to come out. Its gonna be a great time trying to clear in PF lolol last time i was in a static but i dont want to schedule out time to play this round so lets gooooo see you there hahaha
These normal raids have me so excited for the future of the game. They are focusing on good gameplay. I think people are just not used to dying in a duty anymore. I think people will adjust this seems like a knee jerk reaction. Also everyone is undergeared and its fresh content you are supposed to die alot. Just have a laugh at the chaos and enjoy new gear will fix any casual player issues in the long run.
Finally, a good take ❤
Yes this. I think a lot of players forget that at the start of every expansion, we all start out at or below the intended ilvl for the max level dungeons that we get at the start of the expansion. By the time we get new dungeons during patch content, most players are already above the ilvl of those dungeons due to tomestones, or raid gear. So by comparison patch content dungeons feel a lot easier since the majority of players outgear them immediately. So after 5 patches of dungeons that are outgeared on release, when a new expansion rolls around and we don't immediately outgear the dungeons on release, they feel noticeably more challenging, and we forget that this is how every expansion starts.
When I finished the msq and went and unlucked the other level 100 dungeons I also was like "wow, there's a lot more damage going out in these dungeons, maybe they decided to up the difficulty for DT". But then as I started to replace all of my gear with tomestone gear the dungeons got noticeably easier. When 7.1 rolls around and everyone is wearing mostly ilvl720 tome gear, and the dungeon is dropping ilvl 705 gear, it's going to feel just as easy and the dungeons did in EW and ShB.
Reminds me of when I ran Shinryu normal for the first time. It was pretty tough the first time as a healer as people were getting downed left and right. Man it was really fun back then. Took around 25 runs to finally beat him.
This so much. People want to just breeze through everything. Comparing this stuff to savage or extreme is laughable. The average casual player isn't struggling with these fights. Are they dying? Sure, it's a learning method, it's early release and you don't know the mechanics yet. The people complaining are a vocal minority. It's like the top 1% complaining about ultimate content being too easy, but do we listen? No, because the average ultimate/savage raider isn't as good as the top 1%. Dumbing things down for casual content for the lower 1% just makes content for everyone else boring.
Honestly, these dungeons are great and fun!
Though the crazy part is there are already toxic downplaying you for dying😂
I played the dungeon to the gold city entrance for the first time and two people called me trash for not knowing that the final boss of it was going to knock me off. They've played it before I did. People will complain on either end 😂
As a non savage raider, it's nice to see normal be more engaging again.
Perhaps to Ivalice release levels?
The Ivalice raids as a whole are excellent, I'm hopeful to see more healer required mechanics like they had in Orbonne - a variety of mechanics that are specific to a role are great. It's why I also loved the Susano fight, it had a specific job for tanks and DPS. I'm hopeful we get more of that.
I said the same thing! Ivalice raids still get people everyday. I'm enjoying the current content!
More of a challenge in the casual continent is good specially when it is difficult to get a static going to do the more difficult content.
Ivalice was harder at release than anything we've seen in Dawntrail. DT is harder than EW, EW was a snooze fest. Especially Erichthonios. You could literally sleep through Panda1. The OP is wrong on so many levels. The whole overlapping mechanic complaint is even off base. Mechanics have been overlapping as far back as I can remember. The OP just isn't overgeared by doing content on Day 1. The whole argument is baseless, is flat out wrong and the OP wants nothing more than spread mechanics.
Then there are the players who are trying to improve and work up the confidence to attempt the harder content. Having content of a more moderate difficulty helps such people learn the skills needed to attempt such content. It's a good learning curve. Shouldn't we all be trying to improve in whatever we love to do?
@@LordXenon54 that fine it called semi casual content and it what normal raids are for but this difficult has been happening in msq late dungs too and that not ok.
@@anteprs7908how can you say late msq Dungeons are more difficult when you dont get new Stuff? Also its not like every Boss throws the whole arsenal right at the beginning. You usually get every mechanic one after another before they stsrt to combine them. And even IF you fail it is ok to fail. Just learn the mechanic and on your next run youre already a better player.
thats the thing, some people just doesnt want to improve
That's me!
@@EdgeGilid that he point we wanna stay and do the same content if ppl wish to improve that their CHOICE we just want our content to stay the same difficult not be forced to lose on content . we are good and enjoy only the clear cut mechanic not some random bs go it the reason we only do casual content and why we play this game to enjyo the story and have fun but the late dungs the lv 97 and 99 ones are just pains i nthe ass and annjoying for us and you know you fuk up when CASUAL HATE THE CASUAL CONTENT BUT MIDCORE NAD HARDCORE LIKE IT. ppl cried that ew was to easy but those ppl arent the target audeince of that content .
Don’t be scared to fail! If they curse and swear at you, while you explain your situation just report them and block them you don’t want that toxic non healthy energy gaming in the future
I don't like failing, because I don't like my character being hurt. Not because I care about the opinions of others, or am pressed for time.
@@reshypoo9447 Stop seeing your character as weak or unable to deal with pain. There's plenty of main characters out there that get hurt and get back up.
Seek therapy. Not wanting your character to get hurt, an image made of polygones, ones and zeros, il a game with COMBAT, is ridiculous.
If your anxiety is so bad, that you cannot deal playing with other people online. Go to therapy, the issue is not the MMO, you are the issue.
Honey Bee in/out is Barbricia normal, The hearts is also from Barb but the ground aoes are in a different pattern than inner ring outter ring.
honestly I don't really understand why honey b is the level people think is too hard. i think the bomb and eutrope were like wayyy more difficult
Its just Byakko / Barbaricia Mix its pretty easy
Exactly! It’s literally Barb except it’s pink….SE mech’s are recycled over and over throughout the game just in different interpretations. If this person has played the game since ARR how are they confused on the mechs?
@@HoneyDoll894 I think it's more to do with the "holy shit here comes everything all at once" phase that's basically a reskin of strayborough first boss. I agree that it's not that hard, but is definitely chaotic. I do disagree with R3 being harder though. That fight is a snooze fest.
Bee is quite a lot busier than Barb. It's like Barb++.
Barb sends out her air-orbs in a separate phase to the ground-dodging phase, whereas Bee is combined.
There are significantly more of both the orbs, and the ground danger-zones.
In Barb, there was always clear ground to run to. While in bee, the ground danger-zones overlap in such a way that you have to sit in a 'red' zone, waiting for other red zones to expire, before running out - which requires greater general awareness.
My mom is 76 and while it takes her longer to get it then a lot of people but she can do the normal stuff just fine and going to do the raid Sunday
This is so adorable! I wish her luck, she got this) Forge ahead, Warrior of Light ✨
there are more 60+ players in the game. Partly because research has shown that as an older person if you are in an interactive , cooperative, challenging activity with players of other nationalities and skills your chances of developing Dementia goes down because the brain stays active. I have been using this game as my dementia prevention program for the last 10 years.
@@toscatattertail9813 that's awesome!)
whoah dont tell me that im 33 and I use my age as an excuse LOL!
I came into the game in 2.2. When the game was struggling to find its own voice and taking inspirations from other MMOs. There was a lot of experimentation at the time and the difficulty was everywhere. When Final Coil came out along as well the announcement of Heavensward. People got excited but the forum was buzzing with threads of Summoner and Monk being difficult classes to get into, along with Final Coil being too easy. This was back when there was no cross world party finder (that didnt come out until 3.3-3.4). It was not unheard of people buying T-13 clears for gil, and this gave rise to the notion that if 7 players can tell me to eat the wall to get my clear apparently the content is too easy. So these armchair raiders constantly quarterbacked that the Raid was too easy. Come 3.0....we get Gordias and the raid scene on XIV pretty much imploded, everyone was blaming everything from the servers to the class designs. Very few pointed out the players who basically ASKED for harder content knowing that they never would be participating in said content.
Its no different now, the same people complaining about Dawntrail being hard are the same people who will not engage in harder content. They are mad now they cannot go through the content/be carried like they were in EW. That some job complexity is slowly making its way back into the game. As I always like to say, be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t have the time to commit to a static, I’ve been playing this game for 4 years now, I’m more of a Eureka/Bozja/relic kind of player… and yet, this has been nice, to have a more challenging experience without the need of doing savage/ultimate.
You a midcore player nice
If it's just a time commitment, have you thought about party finder? You can pretty comfortably prog and clear any non ultimate content in party finder.
@@anteprs7908this comment has no bearing on his "core" level. You can be a casual who plays 15 hours a day but never does hard content or a casual who plays 3 hours a day just to do savage and log out. It's not as simple as casual, midcore, hardcore. It's not all black and white, there's gradients in between.
@@WolfmanXD TIME ISN WORTHLESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PLAYER SYTLE. it the difficult of the content that made you do and casuals dont do any difficult content as it goes against the defintion of casual. most ppl and are that casual play to relax if you seek to challanage yourself that be default make you not longer seeking a to relax so it make you a non causals now depending on the content you do you ether semi casual or midcore but erueka,bozja and ext trail are seen and agree to be full on midcore content .
@@anteprs7908 Dude you're not even a casual, you're a turbocasual. A tiny minority even amongst the casual playerbase in the game. Stop speaking on behalf of all casuals.
Later on in the post the OP says that they are okay with themselves failing and dying to mechanics but "cant handle" when other people fail and die. This post was by someone who will never be satisfied and honestly should find a different genre to play because MMO's are meant to be played with other people and thats too much for that OP.
No. This person is concerned with not being able to clear content, to be stuck over an hour in content without being able to clear it or quit it. And that's the big problem. FF is still mostly an casual run game and while for example Roulette was a relatively save bet for certain clearing times you now can't even go into them with 93+ characters without being worried about wasting a lot of time because your healer is bad or your tank.
(Also this development is a huuuuuuge "fuck you" for anyone with an disability especially mental ones) sorry but for me the thing is pretty clear, if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl or ho play dark souls or go play the content that's labeled as hard
@@sepphero9639 just saying "no." Doesn't refute my arguement nor does it diminish the simple truth I stated. At no point does the OP make anything close to your argument, I have no idea what post you're reading but it isn't this one. Please go away.
And by the way if you are like the OP and have anxiety so bad you "can't handle" even being in a party with other players then MMO's arent for you because they are designed for Massive MULTIPLAYER Online gameplay, and you should seriously get help and stop demanding everything cater to you and your poor life decisions.
@@sepphero9639 " if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl " You do know that doing the raids right now is basically min iLVL right? Most of these raids are about right for current content. Welcome to not being overgeared I guess?
See, I read that post but I never took that comment to mean that. I took it more like ‘I’m quite used to dying, but if I’m looking around and seeing lots of other people dead as well, it must be too difficult’.
Perhaps I picked it up wrong
I don't heal anymore, but when I did i experienced the same feeling. When you have another player in a complex fight that refuses to be aware of the mechanics that can be avoided and is having a "dirt sandwich" at the same mechanic for a 5th time it's frustrating, and an unnecessary drain on a limited MP pool.
I completely disagree with the idea the game is “too hard now” but I really don’t like people saying that people who feel they can’t do them shouldn’t care because it’s “optional content.” The raid storylines are a huge part of the game, and a lot of people want to experience that story, it’s a big thing to do during the patch cycle, it’s not just about the difficulty. So I agree, we should encourage players, help carry those who need it so they can experience some of the best written story of the games, and dismissing people who want to experience the story but feel the content is too hard with “get gud” isn’t fair to them
I wrote a really encouraging post to this person in the forums.
I don't believe that content in FF14 or any MMO isn't "for you"
Everyone is a human being, we all adapt and we're all on different steps of that journey.
Nothing worth achieving is without errors or shortcomings. We may be bloodied sometimes, but we are unbowed.
the casual content need ot be clear it need to have clear nechanics otherwise it difficult enough that it not relaxing and non relaxing content isnt casual content .
@@anteprs7908 The casual content is clear. I'm not speaking from a non-casual perspective. This content might be new more challenging but it's not out of your ability to succeed. Nothing is. Nothing ever will be no matter how difficult. This content is new but it isn't insurmountable. Achievement comes at the cost of failure.
@@anteprs7908 it is & the pacing in the game is meant to have marginal gains in skill through the intended game design - most of us just get rushed through content by total strangers due to laziness on parsers' parts to homogenize player practices instead of optimizers/efficiency-enjoyers simply pre-forming their parties, like they're supposed to, instead of blind matchmaking aka cold-queuing with Duty Finder.
It turns out rushing people through their journey ever widens the skill gap & upsets the pace of an otherwise well-designed learning curve 🤯
@@NotTheWheel it annjoying and casual content shouldnt be annjoying mechanics have ot be clear as day ot be good for casuals (most) to enjoy many of us enjoyed ew dung and now we dont get any content similiar ot it we simpel get f out of a game . the mechanics in the last 2 dungs and last trail aint clear they chaotic that are a 180 from ew it night and day and we simple dont like that .
@@meteorwalkergg if the content has unclear mechanics aka confusing not easy ot learn on first try it not godo casual content simple as that the lv 97 and lv 99 dung are perfect examples of that . we aitn seeking a learning curve i just wanna do the DAM MSQ i aint here ot study this isnt school i didnt come to learn for get stress in content made to not be stressful or have much failure i got life for that i dont come to game to feel that bs .
I died to many times during MSQ duties LOL, I was grateful no one was around to witness how awful I was doing :P
I think people are giving way too much attention to this post. The vast majority of people are on neither end of the casual-elitist scale, and will simply do what they've always done: adjust to whatever the game provides. We've seen it in throughout the Alexander raids, from people leaving Savage because of the statstick difficulty, to coming back to it as it became more approachable even if the mechanics became more complex. We've seen it in Endwalker, with the more serious players coming up with ways to challenge themselves during the easier content (running without healers, for example). And we'll see it in Dawntrail, with the more casual players starting to pay more attention to fights and going beyond their comfort zone.
I agree that just dismissing the post out of hand is the wrong move, but I don't think it's something that should be taken at face value either. Because there is a limit to not having the ability/desire to put in the effort required. Someone in the thread mentioned how they couldn't clear some of the MSQ dungeons, because they were hindered by the Trust system relying on player skill. And at that point I think it's valid to ask if they should continue playing. Because almost every hobby has a certain barrier of entry that needs to be cleared at some point. For a crass example, if your hobby is reading and you suffer from extreme dyslexia, then you'll either have to put in some effort of dealing with that disability; or you'll have to live with it or walk away. There might be ways publishers can help you, but it's not something you can (nor should, imo) rely on.
And from personal experience, the majority of these "the game is too hard" posts fall into the "not willing to put in the effort" category. Most of the people who have legit issues accept that these issues exist and try to work around them, instead of just asking on the forums for change.
While i absolutely agree that casual content is at a really good place in DT it has also shown a more toxic side of the community that i feel has been growing recently. I felt myself be influenced by it recently when i was playing with one of my friends who has slowly started playing xiv. So, so much of what i consider obvious, basic knowledge is just never taught to players by the game. My friend did the xvi even just after finishing 2.0 and was so confused when the button mashing mechanic came up, and all the different markers in the game are also just never explained, and thats just a small part of everything ive just thought of as basic knowledge. I think now is a good time to just take a breath and actually help out these players cus when shit is actually explained to u, this content really isnt that hard, but going in without all the prerequisite knowledge we all just take for granted... i can see why some of them are struggling rn
As someone who is a casual player. I love what they have done! The combat is blast. I don't feel like normal combat or even normal raids is at an extreme level hard.
It's really okay to die. Failing is fine. I was getting bored of the combat. I felt I was being given a participation trophy doing normal content, normal raids and so forth. Yes I have died a lot during this expansion while doing dungeons, trials, normal raids. I even joke about being a floor lala 😂.
The telegraph in dawntrail imo isnt bad at all lol. The game even alerts you before something big happens. Sometimes you have to do something more than once to learn. I was barely doing damage because I was observing mechanics I kept on failing at to learn. Watching my teammates. Once I got a hang of it ... I started to deal more DMG.
I am happy with the level of difficulty they pushed in normal mode because I was truly bored. The slight turn up on difficulty they implicated isn't at all extreme level. Yes I am casual but I have done some extreme sync because I like to push myself sometimes.
To me dying in content others already cleared isn't fun. I lie on the floor, the others resolve the mechanic and I hardly learn anything. I run dungeons with Trusts precisely because if I die, I have to restart and therefore learn the fight. Since I am still catching up (mostly, I am in DT at least) I never really had to run content more than once. Poetic gear was easily available so running raids more than once felt unnecessary. So I never really learned many of the fights.
If your not into mmorpg of course it’s going to be hard and it’s learning curve we all are not the same it’s gonna take a while.
Get that trust, prepare to fail a lot, don’t be scared and eventually pass that trial it’s gonna be worth it. I promise you that
You shouldnt fail a lot in casual content that why it casual it meant to have clear cut mechanics.
Floor mat learning can be the scariest part of the game. It takes me time to learn bosses and dying in bosses tends to frustrate people. I think we need to learn to accept people dying more and listening less to the min maxxers who do this for a living.
ngl everyone who complains about this....its a skill issue and maybe try to get better? i never done any extreme content before dawntrail and i got through the story easily. yes u had to wipe and learn a couple times at some bosses but it wasnt that hard at all. and yesterday after wiping for 2.5hours i completed my first extreme. stop complaining and use ur brains...ur smart enough im sure of it :)
Not always a skill issue, some people do have disabilities. But generally I agree with you. People need to not be scared of failing and keep trying.
@@stormkeeper1741bro you know that people with disabilities even weighed in on this in the forum, so I wouldn't be too quick to fall back in the disabilities argument
@syverah_nahja4047 I know, I read the entire post because I'm a crazy person. I'm just saying it's not always a "git gud" situation. A lot of the times, sure, but not always. Pretending that there can't be some disabilities, such as neurological issues, nerve damage, and so on that can affect gameplay is a little ridiculous. Though I'm of the mind if they are that bad, perhaps the game isn't for them.
Zodiark and hydaelyn were harder than dawntrails first 2 trials.
The lvl81 dungeon was just as hard and the dead ends was way harder that the lvl100 dungeon.
5.3s trial is harder than all the trials in dawntrail.
The only difference is the innovation in mechanics and the expert dungeons being harder.
Also keep in mind that heavensward was way harder than all of this combined due to how jobs worked lol.
Even so, vets are typically forgiving. They are usually happy to adjust and/or tutor.
Enjoyed your vid as always. Really agree with everything in the 2nd half. People who get upset about skill level in normal content, especially when queuing through roulette are clowns.
I don't think anyone wants to suck at this game, despite people putting various levels of "effort" into playing it. I think there's a way of helping people who want to be help without being antagonistic.
That said, even if people wanna coast and have things be easier, I think we need to accept that cause that's what the devs want. It's a numbered Final Fantasy game. They've taken great steps to make the game accessible. As such they are partly responsible for this situation as they've made earlier dungeons way easier. I remember resubbing in March and doing a ShB dungeon with my newbie friend. I was explaining the issues with a certain boss and some other person was like, what are you talking about? Only to later realise that they had completely nerfed that mechanic. They do that with everything. So someone who started later on and who's playing an MMO for the first time won't be prepared for the "difficulty" spike of a current expansion.
I think for the poster to say that they don't enjoy the fights in the current expansion is fair. I haven't done the DT stuff yet, so I can't comment on the difficulty. But I remember hating all the ShB dungeons except 3 (2 of which were at the end of the expansion) but loving all the EW ones. Enjoyment had little to do with difficulty per se. But things people don't enjoy tend to become (more) difficult.
That said, this person should probably take advantage of the Trust system to learn the fights more. I agree with Aitherea that it could be improved in multiple ways, but it still removes a lot of variables and lets you focus on yourself, mechanics and positioning. I think overall it helps people learn a fight in a more chill environment.
A final note, I didn't take her comment about the other players in the same way that Aitherea did. I don't think she was calling the other bad. I think she was trying to empathise with them swing how they are going through what she had to go through. And the poster is disheartened by seeing others go through what she had to, knowing they'll have to die (in her mind at least) multiple times before anyone can progress.
Ultimately the devs will have to decide what they want cause they can't keep telling FF players (especially) to come play their game and dw about fighting while also making them have to care about fighting. Anyway, those are my 2 cents.
Also, Crystal is a great place to learn and do trials *because* of the RPers and gposers. They want that glam too and they wanna help people get that glam or their crafting mats. (And I say this as a non RPer). There are some really good players on Crystal.
I am one of the "not good" players. I have rheumatoid arthritis and essential tremor in my hands, so I'm never going to be a good player no matter how hard I try. I do all of the dungeons via Duty Support or Trust. I sit for days working up the courage to do Trials because I have to do them through Duty Finder and once I get through it, I never do it again. Sometimes I get people in DF who are kind and encouraging, other times I get jerks who complain or who let me lay on the floor dead because I missed a mechanic. It is what it is. I haven't started DT yet, specifically because I'm sort of dreading the uptick in difficulty.
@@lauranichols8337 thanks for sharing your experience. I think a lot of people forget about stuff like this.
@@qamarqammar7629 I see what you're saying but I still like Trusts for learning mechanics. Especially in their instance where they mention healers leaving them for dead. You definitely won't learn much lying on the floor. Might as well watch a YT vid telling you what to do at that point. Hopefully this person can find a teaching FC or a static that likes running dungeons. I think then your advice would apply better than with DF which seems to be the OP's current way of doing things.
@@idno4856 I agree. I love Trusts. I wish they were available for everything. Unfortunately the biggest difficulty gate in MMOs can be the people not the mechanics. And a sympathetic dungeon group would help.I really believe this game can be played by anyone. Even in DT.
@@lauranichols8337 Players who are "not good", or play very little and wander into any and all Duty Finder content are more than you might realize, especially now with a new expac. It doesn't matter what people think of you. As long as you are trying you are within your rights. Anyone in DF has already agreed to play with random people. And that means random skill levels. Dawntrail is fun and very interesting. It is not so much that it is harder, rather, it is different. The mechanics are similar, but the graphics are unfamiliear - if you've done any Variant dungeons you will immediately feel at home with it. If not, now is the time to see it. You can do all the dungeons and every Trial in the MSQ with Trusts except for the last Trial. The last Trial is not particularly difficult, a bit chaotic at the end, and you won't be the only newcomer on the floor. Many players make a point of running the new content blind and they all make mistakes, so now is a great time to jump in. The last Trial is only about 8 minutes (?) long don't deprive yourself of a great experience because 7 random people you will never see again might see you make mistakes! have fun!
15:40 The game does teach you what those are. It does it by putting them in dungeons/solo duties/normal trials etc and lets you figure them out. The exact same way we are shown every other mech and marker in the game. They're included with no overlap or anything else so it's easier to realise what it is.
in fact they spent the entirety of EW going back and standardizing markers in older content.
I’m really glad damage actually is threatening now, and it really adds to my experience in the story. I remember during the 2nd trial really feeling the intensity of the fight and the struggle of the WoL. I was playing Sage, and I remember mid fight feeling my character stomp their foot on the ground and scream “I won’t let you kill anyone else!” and proceed to heal mitigate like my life depended on it. It was really eye opening to how these moments raise the story experience. It was that feeling that made me try current content Extreme for the first time, and it’s a blast. I’m even considering going into Savage when it comes out. I’m excited to see how far I can go now, and to watch my progress as a healer.
Problem in the discussion is that it is done online by people that play Savage and above.
For a game that costs a subscription fee, I'm pretty sure a lot of people aren't really interested in caring about the opinions of elitists or overly tryhard players that act like the game is their entire personality.
For many MANY players, they understand that the game is shared with different types of players with their own style and preferences and perspectives on how the game "should" be played... but honestly, no one is paying money to conform to how another player(s) dictates they should play the game. THAT is the issue that I see far too often and it's never-ending.
Content that requires skill and coordination like raids etc. it is understandable to have a certain level of expectation, but there are many instances where certain situations are not that big of a deal if someone doesn't know all the ins-and-outs of their class even if they are at a "high lvl" that took many hours to obtain.
You'd be surprised at how many lvl 100s exists in the game that are just people who are chillin' and never take combat too seriously.
With all that said, if anyone makes a PERSONAL CHOICE to play with random players instead of a pre-made group, then you should lower your expectations (sometimes drastically) because you're dealing with RANDOM players. In fact, you shouldn't have expectations at all because you don't know who these players are, or their backstory, or their lifestyle, or their gameplay/skill level, etc... so it's foolish to expect them to know EVERYTHING or even half of the knowledge that you know.
If they do then it's a plus, but just like how you can't have a lot of expectations for people IRL, the same is true (or even more true) in this game.
No one wants to waste time or subscription money having a bad time/experience, so if playing with random people results in you having a bad time, THEN AVOID PLAYING WITH RANDOM PLAYERS. Otherwise, be more understanding that you will most likely be dealing with bad players if you're gambling on what teammates you will receive.
If you're not playing with statics or pre-mades, then you are always gambling.
Good video clap clap clap, I like it^^
I rly enjoy the current normal raid tier a lot even as an multi legend, its finally engaging enough to enjoy it.
But I can definitely understand the real real Casual point of view aswell, which is why I think it would be rly about time for square Enix to introduce a reworked tutorial/mentor system that helps ppl already in the early game and during the progression to higher levels to prepare them to prevail in content. Making an unskipable tutorial that teaches your job pick and battle system would be rly helpful I think. And it continues like with one tutorial Each expansion 50/60/70/80/90 and so on.
I like how even-handed you were in this video. I'd say I agree with all your points and I especially appreciated your defense of "bad" players especially in normal content.
Also I've played this game for eight years and still forget my rotations or mess up mechanics. Sometimes I confuse dungeons or get tunnel vision. Skill and execution aren't these static things where if you can clear a Savage tier you're suddenly never terrible again. Mistakes happen.
I started playing pre Shadowbringers after a friend finally convinced me to try the free trial and have been hooked ever since. I will enter times of obsession where it is all I play and then I'll take a break for months and eventually come back to catch up on what I missed. It has been the single most positive and generally fun MMOs I have ever played. Everyone on the Exodus server and connecting worlds is so nice and helpful. I've only ever been called out once for being "bad", which was on the first time I did Ravana and was dying a bit to the point I wasn't "contributing to the DPS" enough for this person. However they were quickly told to be quiet by others in the group I didn't even know. All that being said, I do feel for this person. I consider myself more of an "advanced casual" where I am willing to learn mechanics and often know what I am doing, but will still die to stupid stuff I should see coming. Dawntrail has been a fantastic expansion for me, but there were some fights I just generally didn't like. Granted doing them more and more I will overcome the issues I have with them, but I get what they are saying about the spike in difficulty. If you are just trying to clear the MSQ you don't want to feel discouraged to do so when you keep dying to a mid dungeon boss. Like you said, this is still early for these particular raids and they are optional content so they can always be done later on. I just feel like people are feeling discouraged because they feel like they are a detriment to their party if they die to a mechanic that everyone else avoided easily. The Honey Bee fight in particular, I felt blind sided in the "performance" part where you have one heart already and have to stand in a circle that gives you another heart only to have a very small window to dodge being granted a 3rd heart and being stunned. That hit me a few times on my first run. I personally wasn't mad about it, but I can understand the frustration. Ultimately it comes down to "learning the fight" however.
I definitely agree we need to push for encouragement rather than trying to tear down people because they don't meet our expectations. If you are concerned about players not knowing were to go, you can use the "dorito" icon to help guide them on the right path. I've had many kind people including my friends do that for me and others. I just don't like the gatekeeping and entitlement that comes out sometimes. This is a mostly cooperative game and we all need to work together.
@@Tyrannotaur well said
While you have some good points. I have to hard disagree on two things. Lvl 100 means something. That means they spent time with that class. time enough to learn how to play it, even if they story skipped and lvl skipped, that's at least enough time to wrap your head around keep stance on and press cooldowns, heal people, press your shiny buttons. I expect my level 100 tank to know that they have more then rampart as a cooldown. The other is the 'well you can just leave' well they can just use trust. How is it fair to me that I have to either spend 45min stuck in a dead ends roulete because my team dies every boss at least twice, or be stuck waiting 30 min due to me leaving. Time is a commodity you can't get back. When you que with random people, you do have a responsibility to preform at some level. that's why you can't just afk. If you have such anxiety or discomfort preforming at a minimum play level, then don't que up in roulettes.
I don't have much expectations for most randos in roulettes, im a crystal player and a sav/ult player. If people mess up I usually just danger dorito and tell people to follow me or loose a gcd or two to type what they need to do. I know being belligerent or calling them out harshly does nothing so I don't. However we have reached an impass now that people think telling others that. At a lvl that can possibly take HUNDREDS of hours to reach you should at lesat have a grasp how to play. I think ff strongest thing is that it does catter to a lot of different type of players and 100% welcome that fact. However, just like when the P12S mount made people rage that a 'cute' mount was behind savage. So is every sav mount, so is every ult weapon. If they wanted it more then they wanted to complain, they would study and get it.
I used to think that max level meant something, but after playing the game long enough I've realized there are many people who hit max level who understand very little of their kit.
Black Mages who only use ice spells, Ninjas that only use AoE ninjutsu even on single target boss fights, and Scholars that never use abilities that cost Aetherflow.
I agree with Aitherea though, it's not a big deal. Players at that low of a skill level are a tad uncommon and likely the content will take about an extra 5 minutes to clear. It's not that hard to carry people in normal content.
@@SuperTwoU Sorry for replying to this after a month, but to build off your point I have one word. Esuna. The amount of healers who apparently don't even have that on their bar is staggering.
You'd think after the 500/600 hours or so to get to DT, people would have a basic understanding of the basic mechanics
Healers that like to heal are in heaven. As they are getting to make a difference in the fight. While green dps are in hell as they are being called out for not doing their job.
The problem is not the fight. But the attitude of green dps.
literally had a DRK all-caps screaming at our WHM in a run today because they just tossed a Regen on them and went on DPSing. We wiped 4 times in Alexandria because they refused to heal. Tank was doing all their mits, we DPS were trying our best to not get hit (some mechs are still gettin' learned tho~), so it's not like we were demanding too much of the WHM. We got through it on the 5th attempt because they switched to *only* healing and no DPSing out of spite. :P
White mages are a different breed xD As PLD i'm quite self sufficient so i can laugh about it but it's still objectively sad to witness those people unwillingness to heal at all.
Oooo true, I actually noticed many healers slacking on heals when I switched to Pictomancer for the expansion and I wondered what's up with that 🤣 Not my healer main ass giving my only shield to a tank during a pull bc they're fucking dying cause the Astro is too busy spamming Gravity 🗿🗿
to be honest i don't think its that difficult however casual players carry the games lifespan the more the game is inviting the more the game grows every mmo is Casual>hardcore population it just simple. I do feel most will get over the sting of it being to difficult though. Start focusing on one extreme or the other is bad im sure they will find a good balance though
@@brymitai casuals do it do extreme if they chose to do it they become midcore
I am sure most casual player out there enjoy this level of difficulty look at the comment on the forum It's more positive than negative and I think I like it
@@Splucus non of those ppl are causal we dont post on forum that op is a expection and the comment are attacking that casusl player
@@anteprs7908 and where are the causal do you think it is then ? if they have that much why not come and say something like or dislike agree or disagree on the matter of difficality that happen and what Definition of "causal" do you mean to who?? just people like op ??
The raid is not hard. Is midcore at best. .
I've been playing since late? Shadowbringers and been pretty much an MSQ main, and outside of that only really engaging with content like 24-mans, leveling up new jobs in Bozja, stuff like that.
That's all I needed to get a kick out of the game, as anything more chaotic than that like EX/Savage trials just looked like way too much for my poor ADHD bogged brain to handle.
Yet, Dawntrail has been the expansion that really just turned a light on in me. Wait, I actually get to die to mechanics for not paying attention and my job is now keeping others alive and not just the tank as they pull wall to wall? Dungeons haven't felt this at-first punishing but on a second try genuinely just really fun in a long time. Hell, it got me to *actually* use the Party Finder and try to join practice parties for the first EX Trial.
All this to say, I LOVE the direction they're going in with battle content this expansion. If it gets a casual scrub like me to say "Okay, but what if I actually tried? If I can handle this, surely I can try going a step above", then they must be doing something right.
welcome to doing content minimum ilvl since no one is currently overgeared
all old normal difficulty content done minimum ilvl no echo (MINE) settings feels like this; just spicy enough to be interesting since not respecting mechanics results in death, but the mechanics themselves are easy to figure out and execute if you pay attention
especially ARR optional dungeons, nothing humbles u like pharos sirius MINE >:]
I'll make an analogy for these people and what the FF14 content trajectory has done for the past 3 or so years. When people go into zero gravity environments they have to constantly workout. If they don't then due to the lack of gravity their muscles will begin to seriously atrophe to an unhealthy point. Much like a space station, FFXIV's content in the past has expected significantly less out of the playerbase the last couple of expansions. This has led to the skill floor of the community even for people who do most content beginning to degrade. Its been constant casual content with practically zero gravity. The only people who have been keeping up are those who intentionally seek the stimulation in EX and above content who have been the ones cheering the loudest for this shift.
Now that FF has course corrected people have begun to feel the burn as their atrophed skillsets now have to work and grow. This is a good thing and they need to be patient through the discomfort and initial difficulty. If they stick with it they will get better and grow not only as a player but as a person. Struggle and failure breeds success and improvement. A lesson that feels lost in our modern instant gratification age. I encourage those struggling with the difficulty and personal growth to keep going. Before long you won't even recognize yourself with how far you have come. Just keep grinding and even if you don't become an Ultimate raider or Savage master. You'll still have improved and that is its own reward.
Struggle and failure breed annjoyance and no fun it makes ppl quit games they arent real life.
@@anteprs7908 it only becomes annoying if one refuses to learn. overcoming adversity leads to fond memories you look back to later in life.
@@EdgeGilidokay tbh i straight up don't think this is true. i admit I'm very casual, I've never done and EX or savage, but for me a lot of the raids from endwalker were plenty difficult enough to have fun in them. I don't really feel that way with some of these raids or dungeons. and i think this attitude of "you will grow as a person" is the same git gud bs that people use to say that introducing any mechanics to fromsoft games that could make them more accessible is heretical and stuff.
yes some of those fights in end walker were pretty easy, but many were plenty difficult too. i think stuff like phoenix, pandaemonium, Athena, even endsinger and zodiark. for dt i think valigarmanda was very good, as was honey b, but i don't think so with bomb boy and eutrope. I'm pretty mixed on sphene, but i guess it was just a kinda forgettable fight aside from the everything combo.
but yeah idk I don't feel like I've "grown as a person" because i did eutrope or whatever, or that becoming better at predicting the damage frames so i can start running to the next safe zone before the attack lands on my screen is that fun gameplay.
@@HoneyDoll894 if "you will grow as a person" is the same thing as the git gud meme to you then im sorry but something is wrong with you fundamentally. growing, learning and being wiser are some things what makes us humans human.
those example you mentioned are only difficult the first couple of times you encounter them, same thing as what is happening right now. lots of things looks and feels different because they are new but as you do them repeatedly you grow accustomed to them, they'll become more and more easily manageable. no one is good the first time, through practice some one grows.
i myself going through zodiark for the first time had issues as well, our group wiped for like 4 times but what i did instead of complaining in the forums is to learn the fight like everybody else would. I honestly think if having a challenging gameplay is something you don't enjoy, might as well stay away from games that has any aspect of combat in it.
@@EdgeGilid okay the smug "better stay away from games that have combat" bit is just funny and revealing. I don't mind challenge, when i want a challenge thats totally cool, but in ff14 i feel the game already had challenge for me at a level i felt comfortable at. And the level of challenge in some of the ones just feels frusturating instead of fun, the same way i think elden ring is a worse game than ds3 because elden ring feels less fun in the challenge.
Hi 🙂 As a player who has struggled a lot with learning mechs & having mechs go off at the same time as the telegraph appears in the past, I surprisingly find the new content fun! It truly is about learning the mechs & doing your best to avoid them. New content will always take time & patience to learn. Deaths happen & each time is an opportunity to learn. Everyone learns at their own pace, so I think patience is needed .
I spent two days with a trust party in Anamnesis Anyder, but it was so satisfying to finally clear it. Regarding difficulty in content, it's a rather thornier issue. I have ADHD so sometimes content that some might consider easy or normal level are quite hard on me. I agree more engaging content is always better and more fun.
I usually play healer to go around queues but also so I can help people that sometimes struggle because its easier for me to keep everyone alive rather that random healers dying and then wipe, but it's insane to me that people think this is "hard" coming from other mmos this is regular difficulty or even "Easy" difficulty and tbh it's not even that "hard" you just have to pay attention because it's insane how many people don't pay attention and start complaining before even trying to understand and nomral raids are ok in difficulty yeah they have a lot of mechanics for a lot of people specially casual players, but there's nothing wrong with dying and trying again I would say its even better to die and learn than to die and quit because you get mad at the game, if you wipe try to let the group know if you understood the mechanic and someone else didn't that's why we play as a party so we can all learn and help each other
I've tanked honey B twice 2nd time I only died once and the trial before the last one I managed to do without dying but on that I had a fantastic co tank helping through guiding me
I agree with you, we need more people that will be patient and help people learn more. The hardest part is the fact that someone can story skip and lvl skip, play the new content and 3 days as whatever class. This is thw hardest part, but there are some that do have patience and will down vote a quit vote. - Wyther Wintersongs - Zalera
Very well said Not to mention that people still haven't learned their openers or roatition on their level 100 jobs also wait you play on crystal I also play on crystal and Honestly even tho I haven't done any harder content outside of ew extremes and some of the older savages like hw and arr savages I can honestly say that dying in an normal raid can be very good because thats means that your are dying to an mech and if you want to get past that mech that you need to study it and learn what to do Its honestly refreshing to have the normal raids somewhat a bit harder!
It is personally very weird to me that after a minimum of 500 hours spent in the game, people still refuse to get better. Difficulty should increase with expansions to allow people to use their toolkits, as they have hundreds of hours of progressing through the game. Current difficulty of dungeons, trials and raids is in a very good spot, engages the players and builds on mechanics from the previous expansions, such as Shiva, Barbaricia, Leviathan etc.
I think the biggest issue is that it's the beginning of an expansion, people are used to being overgeared for content now so having to gear up now is making things seem harder than it is.
I'm so tired of people misunderstanding the word 'casual'. It's more about time commitment than difficulty, both are relevant, but it's moreso the former. Also, as a mostly casual player, I don't want the game to be braindead! I hope they keep this kind of dungeon content. It's an actually realistic curve from Dungeons - Raids/Trials - Extreme - Savage. It's an MMO, time to act like a player in one. Use chat, talk, encourage, ask questions, _engage._
I was doing a Normal Raid roulette just yesterday and got that Trash Collector boss in Alexander. Wiped like 5 times, everyone was talking, had a good attitude, and we cleared! Even though it took longer than I was expecting, it was a good time. Don't let yourself suffer in silence.
Pls devs dont make the bosses braindead again because of these guys. Dawntrails been a huge step up in fun and engagement!
@@IKIGAIofficial but what if "those guys" are the mayority of the playerbase?
@@anteprs7908 cater to the majority.
This guys post is not the majority.
@@IKIGAIofficial it is he is a casual even if most casual dont do normal raids but he isnt wrong . The casuals are 80% of modrrn mmorpg playerbases.
@@anteprs7908 and this guys opinions don’t reflect that 80%.
@@anteprs7908 nah don't worry a lot of casual player disgree with that person I am sure most casual player out there enjoy this level of difficulty
I consider myself a pretty casual player, to the point where I've barely played any Dawntrail dungeons/trials without Duty Support.
I didn't really notice an uptick in difficulty, but maybe that's also in part because I played most of it as a Paladin and the rest as Viper. I'm only now leveling my first healer job, having gone from CNJ 16 to WHM 55 over the past week or so. So I'm focusing on other content right now, but sooner or later I'll go through the Dawntrail dungeons again to make sure that I remember the mechanics before I play them with other players. That's always a good starting point.
This has been one of my favorite expacs as far as mechanics and bosses go. I love the new difficulty and i dont mind trying a boss multiple times, even explaining mecanics and using the "Dorito of Guidance" to help ppl clear. I look forward to future content at this new normal level of difficulty.
I literally just got through The Mothercrystal on my Trial Roulette today with a couple players that either didn't know or forgot how that fight works. They were constantly dying and nearly wiped us by running away with one of the multistacks. I get that it probably didn't feel good to them to be playing so badly but I actually didn't mind it and it added a bit of stress to a fight I barely engage with as a healer with a good group. It kind of is a case of those players accepting that they did poorly and moving on rather than calling for nerfs to encounters. I like when it feels like some actual stacks are on the line, I like to be challenged a little. If making fights that casual players can't quite grasp is the price to get that, I'm fine with it and will do what I can to help them so they can be fine with it too.
There's nothing like the rush of tring to heal and MIT a group stack with four people in it.
Also, it's totally okay to wait on the rez, just watch the mechanics for a moment, calm down, and come back when you get the flow of battle.
I've definitely noticed a bump up in the level of focus needed for normal content. I usually like to use the trust system to get familiar with the mechanics of dungeons before I step in as I don't want to disappoint the party I'm with. Unfortunately, Tender Valley wasn't an option for this when I did it for the first time yesterday. Gladly, I was in a patient group that was okay wiping a few times (we wiped at lest once to each boss) but we (and be we I mean I) learned from it and got through. I pick things up a little slower than others, but for the most part, I appreciate that people are nice or at least not mean about it. I usually figure it out eventually or ask for a little help when needed. I don't want the content to be adjusted.
I did M1 the other night and it was a lot of fun wiping a few times and having people joke about it and discuss how not to die next time. We all had a good cheer when we finally cleared it and that is what the MMO experience is supposed to be, IMO.
Looooong time player here (since closed beta in 2013). Every Time there is an expansion the Overall Difficulty Rises... and people complain. 😂
-- The Healers complained because the tanks didn't need them and they were heard and now they are needed. The tanks and melee complained because the dungeons were too easy, guess what... now there is a challenge. So Yoshi P and the development team raised the difficulty to appease the demand that people do their job and not just slop through.
-- There are also complaints in the beginning of every expansion about the mechanics, but avoiding those is a learned skill, that causes the player to think in different ways. 🙃if this long time 70 year old player with arthritic hands can learn and adapt then a 20-something player should have no problem at all once they learn how to think things through.
-- your suggestions about the trust are very good, hopefully Yoshi P. see's that.
Im not sorry,if you dont understand stack markers and not standing in the glowing yellow aoe marks by level 100 you are objectively playing wrong and should shut up about difficulty.
WHM main here. Did the 4th raid with all first timers. It was a blast. It's fun to learn. The one thing i already suggest as a tip as a healer is; you don't always have to be in the clear. If you can't make it to the safe spot try to make it to the safest spot you can. Like being in only one mechanic instead of overlapping. We will heal you. But learn to have fun with the challenge.
I'm quite the captain average and I made it through Dawntrail all right. Two things helped me improve though, I used the benchmark to tweak my game configurations to get as little lag as possible (I'm close to the minimum laptop requirement, so that helps a lot); and a friend told me to look for visual cues on the boss, like arm raising and energy gathering, etc. My last advice, tank. You can eat so much more stacks and attacks before dying and queues are faster. ^_^
Listening to this I laughed because I have always died a lot while learning normal fights in a new expansion. I don’t think it should be expected to watch a video of an msq dungeon due to spoilers - maybe the second or third time lol - so so we’re coming in unprepared as the game intends. Also, yeah, I’m not a very good player, but I try. Thanks for mentioning those of us who struggle to put in place the advice seen on a video or from other players on the first (or second) try.
This expansion has given us a bit more in terms of difficulty. I truly appreciate it! I like the new dungeons, trials and raids! A bit more difficulty that forces you to pay some form of attention is good. I am actually enjoying and looking forward to roulettes for higher duties.
If you fail, just try again! :3
i agree with every single one of your points in this video. it's been so baffling for me to see people getting so bent about the difficulty of the fights right off the bat. like, give it a month at least, surely? and then the next time you queue it there will be at least a few people on your team who know exactly what they're doing. complaining about the difficulty after like two days is astonishing to me. do these people not remember Eden's Verse: Iconoclasm ??????
People tend to forget that the 1st and 2nd boss in dead ends still gets people even by the end of the expansion lol
I've not seen any issues with difficulty so far (but I have been doing MMOs for... a while >.>), but it has been fun. I am not quite done with MSQ (but I think I am close), and the biggest thing I had trouble with was the...second boss in the first dungeon, I think. Most chaotic set of telegraphs I have EVER seen, and I was laughing my butt off (was also running with FC mates, so, that helps). I think when it comes to folks having trouble, we should offer tips and encouragement. I'm not a mentor, but I have taught folks, both sprouts and notsprouts (can they even still have the sprout icon after 90?) about certain fights if I notice folks struggling before a wipe (the Phantom Dragon in The Burn, for example. Back before Endwalker). I agree, we need to lift folks up, not punch them down, so we can all have a good time in the game.
Bruh your not even my friend list love your attitude toward gameplay, we should lift them up when they are getting hard time, not trash them git gud or this game is not for you go play FarmVille.
I think what they mean by mechanics resolving too quickly to process, is they don’t catch the animation in the arena or off to the side or the boss itself and they’re waiting for the telegraph on the floor but by the time the telegraph shows up it’s almost too late. That’s my guess anyway. But they started doing that a lot in shadow bringers were you actually had to pay attention to what the boss was doing And not just the paint on the floor so it’s not really new maybe just ramped up a little? I think it’s fine though. Definitely more engaging and I like it.
And for the record, I am nowhere near an expert. I haven’t done hardly any savage stuff and I get it. But I also have a thing for overcoming adversity. like somebody wise said, the only difference between a master and a beginner is that a master has failed way more times.
People who complain about DT fights being too hard go by the assumption that players are not supposed to LEARN how to complete a mechanic. A fight mechanic is only difficult when you're unfamiliar with it, but once you've understood how it works and have practiced it several times, doing it in the future becomes way easier and way less stressful.
The first DT raid tier fights are incredibly fun in Normal and I am so so excited to see them in Savage too.
tbh this might be true a little, i think valigarmanda is a very fun fight, but the first time i did it we wiped like 6 times. I don't think the king bomb and eutrope are fun, but in those runs we wiped 0/1 times, and were carried by healers ressing the team and stuff, so i never quite learned how to properly do the mechanics. still i think the mechanics in those fights are just inherently less fun (more of the move instantly from one side of map to other and mapwide damage zones you have like 1-2 seconds to read and react by moving to the opposite side of the map)
gonna be honest i think personally most of the difficulty comes from actually seeing the mechanics trough the flashing lights and vfx....like i know what the mechanics are I just cant see them
When I did the DT normal raids with my static, we wiped a few times, but we had so much fun. And everyone agreed that these raids are great, way better than EW normal raids. I'm so excited for savage raids.
"Don't play with them" isn't really a valid response imo. Like, yeah, I've carried plenty of parties, but at some point I expect basics like "don't stand in the glowing orange danger zone", which is a constant since ARR to be known. And yes, I've seen people not understand this in DT.
If I just leave whenever people are that bad, I legit don't get to play the game anymore.
Used to be, that people you need to take extra care with wore a little crown as marker (-> joke
As someone who plays FFXIV very casually, as in I do not do on content savages or extremes as I cannot keep up with doing damage and dodging mechanics at the same time: Dawntrail isn't actually harder, however, it is more engaging. All of the bosses still have a tell with attacks, this time being more picky on when they do give us the hand holding orange ground tell. We shouldn't be looking at the ground, we should be looking at the boss. The Time for Tells going off, regardless if they show on ground or show from boss is roughly about the same. Casual content is still casual, it's just, you're not attacking the floor, so paying attention to only the floor during fights doesn't make sense to begin with.
I think the poster is in denial. Denial about getting older. I say this because Stormblood during launch had difficult dungeons. Shinryu fight at the end had people frustrated to no end. It wasn't uncommon for that trial on normal required more than one lockout. And not to mention the alliance raid was notoriously difficult. The whole reason why a lot of people complained about lack of difficult in endwalker was because we were still riding high from stormblood and many missed it. The Dawntrail was the revival of the halcyon days.
I very much agree with you on pretty much everything you said 🙂 it's weird how ppl can't decide that something isn't for them then it's a huge deal worthy of negative comments harassment etc some things r for some some things r for others that's okay
First time I did the first boss in the Carnival dungeon, my party died many many times. We eventually beat it. Or rather, I as the tank eventually beat him by soloing him for the latter half of his HP while the party watched. I was just the first to figure out the fight and my tank job had enough self healing to cover any mistakes I made.
I remember when I started playing final fantasy 14 for the first time. And I couldn't even get past a level of 32 dungeon. I was struggling, and I was pretty much ready to quit the game right then and there. But I received encouragement by other people around me to just get better and learn my job; better learn the mechanics better and I did and I got past it and got better.
I really learned how valuable it was to just get better at the game as you progress in getting higher levels. And now I love doing extreme content. I love doing savage content and these people. I think need to learn the same lesson.
I like the new raids but it does make me very conscious of the limits my ADHD gives me. I have processing speed in the impaired range and while I have been able to get through the past game content, these raids are pushing those limits because it takes a lot more concentration to dodge and figure out the patterns/mechanics. I'm sure to the rest of my party it looks like I'm not trying hard enough to dodge but the sustained concentration to do that takes a lot out of me. I probably will never expect myself to do savage content and that's fine.
However a lot of the new raid mechanics I have to dodge are faster than I can follow. I feel bad dying 5+ times each raid and I don't blame anyone if I get zero commendations which is typically what happens starting out unless a friend gives me a pity commendation. At that point, I feel like I'm being a burden on the team. It's gonna take me maybe 3 or more times playing the same raids for me to die less. Even then, there are still parts of the battles in Dawntrail where I still die in consistently like certain parts of the Vanguard dungeon where there's a ton of lasers to dodge. If the healers are enjoying raising me 8+ times, I cannot tell. Its more mortifying to start out doing this content that I don't really feel like this is content I would want to do everyday for sure. Once a week might be okay spaced out but it does make me sad that I can't do this content more without being terrible or inconsistent at staying alive.
@@kawaiikanako71 just so you know, the people you queue in with cannot commend you. So those were from someone else 🙂
@kawaiikanako71 as a fellow ADHDer with a slower processing speed I feel this comment so much! Thankfully I’ve got a group of friends that understand and help me through learning the mechanics. But it’s definitely something that makes me hesitant to run content with randoms.
That’s the only point in the video I have to argue is that people do in fact have different levels of processing speeds.
I should have added that, that being said I am enjoying DT content and finding it fun even if it is a little more mentally taxing for me. I definitely take more breaks to farm fates. 😅 But I recognize that because of my processing speeds I will never be a savage content player and I’m ok with that.
I ran the raid series on paladin, but let me tell you what, that sustained damage was taking chunks out of me at 699 ilvl. Raid 2, had me a little raging a bit, but after you really figured it out, you were like, oh that makes sense.
You... Took... Damage?
I feel it's very nearly spot-on, just needs a little practice and it's good. And healers to get out of this mentality of doing the bare minimum.
Honey B Lovely was the only "hard" fight for me (we had to wipe 2 times before we got it) 😭😭😭 Like come on
I can just correct one bit on the randomness part. There is one mechanic that feels random, and it's in one of the dungeons (96 I believe?) where you become a nuisance to your teammates and blow bubbles at them. Otherwise the original poster is off his rocker. I've enjoyed the difficult bump thus far. The EXs are fun! Like a lot of fun. Although we're not quite back to The Orbonne Monastery level difficulty for 'normal' content (yet). I loved the Thunder God fight pre-nerf.
If you look through the official forum posts while there are folks who are being dismissive about “bad” players there were also a LOT of people who were encouraging these people as well. At the same time the casual players who are saying it’s too hard are also dismissive to OTHER CASUAL PLAYERS who don’t agree with them. The respect for each level or type of player should be respected across the board.
Solid take. Just started playing FF recently and while the mechanics can be incredibly complicated sometimes, I don't think they're beyond learning. As a casual player I don't really pay any mind to how my dps is or dying at all during fights. There's probably a misconception that players consider themselves more casual when they're actually kinda like "softcore" players who stress enough about certain aspects that it frustrates them. A semi-competitive perspective if you will. I found myself dying to a lot of Dawntrail's mechanics or getting hit because I was staring at my buttons to make sure I was pressing them and I stopped getting hit so often when I started looking at the boss and worrying less about my buttons.
TLDR: Samurai seems to have a lot of buttons. Please send help.
Casuals, in my experience, don't care about difficulty that much. Some players just mistake themselves for casuals and want instant gratification.
I love the spicy mechanics. I've never been so amped about being a healer. Plus the fights are still brand new, it takes time for the player base to figure them all out. It's okay to die, or even wipe a few times. Just eastern bow the WAR tank that carried the raid, he will love it. Maybe blow the healer a kiss. We got you.
So in a vacuum you are correct to say that that players are not all at this skill level. A point I would like to focus on is that Dawntrail is just the start of a story, it is not the start of an MMORPG in general. At bare minimum these players have already spent hundreds of hours playing the MMO and honestly do need to start improving their skills. Not demanding them do hard content but at bare minimum be competent at the video game of their choice if it's a game they have already sunk hundreds of hours in. These type of hours is roughly the time Speed Runners have or pro-players have to fine tune their skills. All ffxiv is asking now is for them to not be bad anymore at this point.
Theres an easy response to these kinds of posts: Casual doesnt mean EASY, casual means low commitment content!
Meaning that by design every piece of content in the game has been designed to be beatable given "ENOUGH" time. Yes, even your granny could beat the hardest Ultimate in the game if they would dedicate enough time to learn, practice and execute what is needed to beat that content. Well of course the time needed to to beat it might take ages, even years possibly but still by design its possible.
What this person is unhappy about is that they feel like they should be able to enjoy the game without "any commitment" nor engagement, and just clear the content without any friction since its dubbed "CASUAL". Clearly seen by their dismissal when anyone offers advice and things they could practice on. And that kind of mindset is toxic, even casual players want to enjoy FFXIV just as much high end raider does.
Watching a movie and just pressing WAD and 123 is not engaging gameplay to anyone who is even slightly interested in actually playing the game. Not to mention that everything gets easier as patch goes along since parties average item lvl is ever increasing.
The weird dichotomy is that non-casuals reject homogenized design from the devs while insisting on homogenizing the play practices of casuals. It's quite the feedback loop & the definition of insanity 😂
@@MegaKaims but it not toxic to ask for casual content to be easy it mean for casuals
@@anteprs7908 again casual doesn't mean EASY
@@anteprs7908 It is casual. It's content that can be cleared by any group min ilvl in a single lockout with no prior knowledge. What is being asked for is that casual content be turned into tourist content.
@@DuelerIsKing it the difficult and unclear mechanic that dont make it ,savage by you logic and ultimates are casusl content to? What bring ask is for cadusl content to not be chaotic and have bad confusing mechanics and it bring ask by the target audeince of the content aka the casuals, you think that making casual content more difficult is what we want to but thar not true the guestion now is how many expantion are left before ffxiv reaches its wow shafowlands phase and nearly die .
I agreed with you until you got on the basics topic, and it pushing your opinion on them. Are the basics not just the average expectations of the player and their role. For instance, a player following the ABC’s, or not using AOE on single targets. Even if a player who doesn’t learn their jobs rotations and plays follow the shinny on their hot bars would be expected to at least perform the basics. Hell the game even has a built in tutorial system for, the basics.
My only expectation is that people do need to AoE trash mobs in dungeons, and even that is more of a "polite advisory" moment. Other than that, I will happily carry someone to the end of a trial, normal raid, dungeon etc, I got Thin Air and Swiftcast, no one stays on the ground long if I can help it.
As a self proclaimed casual player that has barely touched extreme content to find I don't enjoy it - I loved the feeling of normal in Dawntrail. The mechanics were mostly fun, albeit there was a lot that felt unfriendly to casters due to high movement. I am glad I stuck with RDM instead of trying picto for the story because I did a whole lot of rezzing, but that also felt great when my rezzing prevented wipes.
The only normal duty I got frustrated at was the second trial, but that's because I got 3 groups in a row that wiped a couple times then abandoned so every time it felt like starting over with more people that didn't know mechanics yet.
Opted to run it as trust, and by that time I didn't take a single vuln stack because I knew the mechanics already.
All 3 groups I feel if they just stuck it out another couple pulls we would've had it, so my read is that the real problem is people attitude towards learning/wiping thinking it's a waste of time
There is such a balance to strike and of course I'll be biased since I raid and been raiding since ARR, but here are my two cents. There is a large gap of mid content (mid as in middle level) not there. It is either balls hard savage or I sleep casual. I don't even think the idea is to be harder, I just like having fun mechanics. For me I loved Coil Raids, and despised Alex. Omega felt like a good middle. But I still pushed myself. I think there is a way to make things fun and challenging without it being hardcore. And of course as a raider, bring on the hardcore. But when dungeons go as badly as they do some of the times, it makes me wonder if we shouldn't be preparing casual content with something. I know the arguments may come to mention disabilities. But I'm of the mindset of if you really can't handle the game then don't play. I refuse to play Elden Ring cuz it isn't in my wheelhouse of skill but damn do I love the victory I see in others. I shouldn't dictate what a dev envisions and I play casual games as well, but even in those games it feels so boring. You still need to be fun and fun doesn't have to be hard, just engaging. What I'm seeing more of is that anything that requires engagement can make people frustrated, therefore nerfs. It is weird when I look at Animal Crossing and feel that New Leaf is more fun than New Horizons cuz of engagement, both are casual and don't require skill but effort.
Either way, I'm all for more modes such as more casual, more mid, more hard. But I dislike when a group wants to change it. Same goes for hardcore getting mad at all easy content, I might get bored but I just avoid it, it isn't right for me to change the way content was intended either. And honestly my advice...I was (probably am) one of the slowest learners and die easily to things. But I just pick up and keep going. And if you can't/won't do that, then walk away. I did that for so many games. Same goes for games that are too easy, I walk away. The idea of 'git gud' gets taken by people who are highly skilled already and can understand the annoyance, but I'm truly not one of those, I can't 'see' mechanics, I can't figure out mechanics, I have to study and slam my head against the wall. But I end up getting it because I try. It is okay to try and be bad, I couldn't even beat titan ex when it was current for weeks. That fight really knocked me out but it taught me a lot. It forced me to engage with my job and mechanics and I'll forever love titan ex for that. I failed it so many times before it clicked.
One great advice is, don't get hung up by how people may view you playing. Be honest in your pf, be honest if you're fresh, and even if they leave or say something let it fall off. Me mastering a fight overrides others who have no impact on my life after the duty. And you'll be surprised how you find amazing people who are random. I met some of the greatest people in the world from that and they knew I was a baddie that wanted to try :)
But before talking about a Gap in "Mid Content" you have to define what Mid Content actually is. Also where put the the line between Casual,Mid and Hardcore. You could ask 20 differend People and getting 20 differend Opinions. For one everything above 4ppl Party size is already Mid and for the Other Savage is Mid and for Person 3 even Ultimates are Mid. It is hard to have an Argument when everyone has a differend Opionion about Difficulty Levels.
@@DantoriusD Yeah its all subjective. For me ARR had the best mid content. Hard dungeons that truly were difficulty, the beginning parts of the relic quest. Stuff and yeah I agree for people its subjective that is why its the game and dev's job to create the litmus. It is accordance to what the game determines 'easy', 'middle', 'hard'. I can't create that since its not a game I made. So honestly...I'm saying its not the fans to determine easy, mid, hard its up to the devs and we follow in place. Sometimes the player/customer isn't right and can't make those hard choices. But we can determine we want more content in spaces that is always valid, then we either like it or not. I just want options.
In ARR we had easy= dungeons, story, gardening, leveling jobs and their story quests, (gathering/crafter may vary haha)
mid=end game dungeons such as hard modes, the primal hard fights, 24 man raid, relic
hard= coils, PVP???? (I don't touch PVP lol, not my thing)
It is accordance to the game NOT players opinions.
Yes, you are absolutely correct that even somewhat casual players like me feel threatened by these people cause we HAVE precedence that the devs listen to this bs. And the problem is that these people literally are too stupid to learn. I mean, we are at lvl 100 with I don't know how many duties done till you reach that and I STILL see people standing next to a proximity aoe or standing still while having a chase aoe on them and then being surprised that they died. A few days ago I had a MCH that died to almost every mechanic on every boss in Aetherfont. Yes, the Aetherfont dungeon bosses. The only way to cater to these people would be to go back to ARR leveling dungeon levels of mechanics. So yeah, I don't care about their opinions and no one else should.
well said! personally I loved the up and challenge! I am not a savage player. Not saying I would never be, just don't have the time!
Content is hard, but as you'll do it more and more you'll eventually learn the mechanics. Also I argue that some Shadowbringer and Endwalker content is still hard by Dawntrail's standard it's just that having done that content more we are more familiar with the mechanics.
I personally like the direction the Duty-Content is going with in Dawntrail, finally a dungeon doesn't feel like smashing my head on the keyboard for 15 minutes straight and then collect my tomestones and leave -> repeat. In Dawntrail i have to actually pay attention to mechanics from the lvl 91 dungeon all the way through to expert roullette Dungeons ( that first boss on the haunted ghost town is a literal pain tho but not that i would not do the content over it). I have the most fun in Dawntrail after MSQ's than ever before i think. All the content in the game is great be it gathering and crafting or Trials and dungeons. Everything is so refreshing for not being braindead content anymore. Pls Yoshi-P don't give in to these whining people on the forum that keep crying for free loot instead of investing the little bit of time it requires to become a better player and pay attention.
@@Seraphima249 this ppl are casual and the content you enjoy is our content you are ruining by wanting it to be harder ,what wad braindead to you was fun for us what fun for you is annjoying for us the only difference is casuals are 80% of the playerbase and pissing thrm off will kill ffxiv in time
It took me a few years of playing FFXIV for it to click in my head that there is absolutely no punishment for dying or even wiping. Once I truly understood that, I stopped being afraid of making mistakes, which helped me keep a clearer head, and then my skill level increased exponentially from where it was before because I stopped being afraid of using duty support to experiment with mechanics, see how much silly nonsense I can get away with. I think there’s a value in -trying to fail- sometimes because you can learn from that. Make challenges for yourself, try something ridiculous, like doing a fight in first person mode as a Lalafell!
I mean obviously don’t try to fail while you’re playing with people unless everyone is into it, but the NPCs are so useful for learning. I just wish there was a practice mode with NPCs for MSQ-required trials, but since there isn’t, I watch guides first if I’m feeling unsure. Trying to learn is a fundamental building block to becoming more skilled, even if it takes a while. It took me about three years!
As someone who started this game in April, I really think people underestimate how easy it is to go through this game barely learning mechanics or even the effective way to push buttons. I pretty much only played Dragoon, only started doing daily roulettes during Post Stb (because ilvl gating), and got to 90 in about 60 days. Then Dawntrail comes out, I hit 100 in maybe 8 hours of actual combat. The optimal rotation still leaves me scratching my head, and trying to execute it while not floor tanking. Granted, optimal isn't necessary for normal content, usually. But the point is, DT is the first time (outside of maybe Ivalice raids) that normal content felt actively tuned up and punishing for mistakes. I'm fine with that, it's forcing me to learn the game, learn to adjust my HUD and camera properly, and how to actively notice what's going on on the field and notice the guiding lines and symbols designed into arena. That said, I still need time to learn. I'm going to continue to suck until things actually click.
The step up in DT has been brilliant! Did a run the other day and it turned into a prog run learning the new mechs.
Aitherea! I love this! Can you come and give my kids this kind of talk about everything! :D You're the best!
i think for me at least the two fights of the raid, black cat and honey b were pretty fun! however the bomb and eutrope fights had me on the floor constantly. maybe this is an issue of me playing on NA from EU, but the time from seeing the damage hit, to moving away from the next damage zone is even more difficult than before. Maybe if i did those fights more it'd feel better, but the amount of attacks that come at once in those two fights (as well as the last trial).
also i really think theres an issue going on here. you and i agree about wanting to heal, but this is like the pinnacle of powercreep. the tanks have gotten so strong at self heal and mitigation that healers aren't necessary, so the only way to make healers necessary is to make the mechanics so brutal that not even the tank can outheal them, while the healers and dps are drowing in damage. And i think we're at a fine line with the difficulty now. i think honey b and valigarmanda were good, i think the first encounter in the last dungeon was too tight, same for the two last raids. And honestly i do just think that the issue is tanks are too strong. i was doing the cactus dungeon fight, got instakilled by the first attack, and watched the tank stay alive to the end of the fight and eventually solo the boss.
What we need is all the bosses of normal content to do is stand there and auto attack and do nothing else so people don’t have to struggle. It’s the only way. Honestly the DT dungeons are now some of my favorites just because it breaks the boss formula and actually has you to more then just move left or right casually to dodge something while not stopping your rotation.
I think this content is more difficult and I find it enjoyable. My issue is that most of us are learning at the expense of others people’s time and it can get frustrating. I am usually the one dying and hate that I cause others frustration. Some players are more understanding than others and it becomes disheartening when the toxic behavior comes into play. Ex. I was in the Honey Bee fight and it was the first time for both healers along with others. After wipe 3, the tank started complaining to the healers. The healers were doing the best job possible healing and rezzing all the dead players. It made me angry and felt bad for the healers, who were doing their best. I am seeing more of this “toxic” mentality in this expansion. It is NEW content and has a learning curve especially for first timers. I wish people would understand that.
Endwalker seemed to have had a gap for those players who liked engaging content but weren't quite wanting to commit to savage raiding. The lack of a field operation on top of a disappointing easy relic grind has caused many people, those who describe themselves as mid core or casual with no real content to do in the game. Dawntrail is a direct reaponse to this feedback and its refreshing. We're going to get even more. Variants and deep dungeon and field operations but seeing feedback and knowing Devs knee jerk over correction, I can understand why players are getting low key hostile. Endwalker content felt less like a game and more like sleepwalking. People don't want to return to that. The trust trials give you revives in battle. I dont see why they cant add that to trusts.
I love the direction devs are going in. Any issues I ever have are soley with myself, which is why you'll never see me in EX or Savage content. If it gets to the point I just can't do stuff, I'll watch the cutscenes on youtube. What I won't do is whine about other people having fun.
its maybe a bit more nervous than previous expansion, but not that "hard", it just need some learning. Nothing more. Actually i had so much fun through these dawntrail dungeons/trials n.n Arcadion aswell!
People do have to remember that, if you haven't used a story skip to go straight to DawnTrail, you already have to get through Seat of Sacrifice and Voidcast Dais to get to DawnTrail, both of these fights covering basically every complaint in the thread, you can handle the newer content if you can beat those.
Examples, SoS's boss fusing fire and Ice to the donut or point blank to catch people off guard. The first raid wide forcing healers to heal or a lot of immediate death occurs. Jumpscare tank LB3 with an awkward timing to correctly use it.
Voidcast Dais has shadowed cresent to jumpscare aoe people too close to the boss, and that raw unfiltered chaos of Towers, push back, proximity markers and a very angry dragon aiming a line AoE at someone.
Get gud...in all seriousness I think the mechanic resolving to fast complaint is due to the tell being the bosses animation like raising an arm but people are staring at their hotbar so they only see a telegraph briefly flash on the ground.
I say get gud but I had a viper that died like 7 times. We raised him every time and never complained and will teach people if they are willing to learn and I find people if you don't make them feel bad and just offer mechanical advice will be elated. Had a group wiping on first boss of origenics I mentioned about the arms and said it was similar to boss of holminster switch and they were like oooh I get it now. And we had a good time.
I've seen this forum post fly around a few times and it made me raise an eyebrow, the dungeons and normal raids don't really feel difficult, in fact they are still relatively easy compared to say, a savage fight, which requires multiple hours or days of practice - I genuinely like the new dungeons though, the mechanics are a fun new twist that makes you look at what the boss is doing and understanding mechanical execution, which will mean that people who can wrap their brains around dungeon mechanics a bit better than others will have a better time when trying to get into savage - in fact, i believe in dawntrail we'll see more savage participation than we've seen in Endwalker.
I cant wait for the savage raids to come out. Its gonna be a great time trying to clear in PF lolol last time i was in a static but i dont want to schedule out time to play this round so lets gooooo see you there hahaha
Also I really wish people would be more open to taking advice and not immediately think someone is being toxic.
OP was a Red Mage main too. If they were learning and staying alive they would have a lot of capacity to help repair the fight.