DATRON Neo: Our Thoughts after 6 months with this amazing CNC machine!
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- DATRON Neo has made SMW its home for the better part of this year. Now we want to share our experience! Not only were we able to get some great speeds and feeds recipes for ProvenCut, we also made PPE to increase safety for employees and customers.
The 40,000 RPM spindle is _________ (10 points if you can fill in my favorite word in the comments below). Next Control is so intuitive--it's the way ALL CNC controls should be, period. The tool changer, the probing, the VacuCard, everything---this machine has it all. Come find out what the DATRON Neo is all about!
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Links for this video
DATRON: www.datron.com/
Milling Spheres: bit.ly/2YJH0Lj
Ed Kramer @ekramer3
Microsoft DATRON Article: bit.ly/31zBmNC
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Reach us / CNC Info:
Speeds & Feeds: provencut.com
Download Fusion 360: www.dpbolvw.ne...
Online Fusion 360 Training: bit.ly/LearnFus...
Hands-On CNC Classes: www.nyccnc.com...
SMW Products: saundersmachin...
CNC Resources: www.nyccnc.com 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH
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I've always loved the radical design of Datron machines, and watching their videos. I've always assumed they were only for soft metal and plastics, and was surprised that you mentioned cutting stainless and other harder metals. Can't wait to learn more about that.
Datron. Where central lubrication for ways and ballscrews is not even an option.
I run a M10pro at may dayjob, I use to run Datron machines for the better part of 10 years now - Its a nice machine, quick and rather precise. But it has its flaws.
For me, the most significant: The 3d Probe on its swivel gets unreliable after some time. Not unprecise, just unreliable. I experienced that on a multitude of Datron machines and different design-iterations of the swivel-arm.
Programming on the controller is a nightmare. Describing a complex contour and have it machined is arkward and slow. No good way to program a pocket that is not round or rectangular.
Yes, I know, CAM makes parts, not the machine, yadayada.
But sometimes I just need a quick contour, 3 holes and a pocket.
Jogging the machine with the hand-pendand feels very laggy and disconnected from the machine - As far as I could tell, that has gotten better with the controller-iteration on the Neo.
The MPG thats on the pendant of the M10 is not exactly nice. Its a 15mm knob with maybe 16 pulses per rotation.
MQL with alcohol is nice, there is no doubt about it. But some places will not allow you to run it due to workpalce safety issues. I have to run a waterbased cooleant trough the MQL. I guess that voided the warranty in the first 5 minutes..
At least the M10, its precise. I have to push the machines into roles that it was not intended for. Hardmilling and machining ferrous metals and it holds up really well. First spindle crapped out after 10k hours.
We do a ton of sheetmetal (Steel, Stainless, Toolsteel and copper) prototyping on the machine, short of having a laser. Thats where it shines, with small endmills and rather high feed.
Stefan we love ur videos here in Algeria North Africa
We almost brought ur vids u and TOT every week and discuss ur subject
All love from Algeria man keep up
Hello Stefan, thanks for the extensive comments. We don't run a datron but a similar, gantry type machine and were contemplating doing exactly what you describe- prototype sheet metal (ferrous) parts before sending to laser. Could you offer some tips on endmills you use for this and their approximate life time? Thanks!
Nice! This is the sort of review that we actually want. With both the pros and cons.
so like, you need to manually oil and grease things? what is this, 1950?
next they are going to expect us to crank handwheels or pull levers.
We got a Neo in 2018 for our Machine Shop, Machine was around 90.000€ + tax including training for 6 people in their head quarters in Darmstadt, Germany. The Price includes nearly every soft- and hardware feature Datron offered at that time. Machine is superb in Aluminium and Plastics but they dit not recommend using it for Steel and harder materials. The Spindle is not really suitable for low rpm and the router cutters might wear off prematurely if you didn't switch to a Water/Oil mix emulsion for Cooling which would ultimately cover the machine in dirt. With Ethanol Cooling, you can simply vacuum the machine off or use the airhose.
i once had a work experience at their company, was great!
Can’t wait to make the jump on one of these, beyond perfect for the work I do. Not to mention I’ve been beyond impressed with the customer service so far for the tooling.
Awesome to hear!
Big step up from the router you're running! Given the amazing work you do with a router, I can't wait to see what kind of work you do with something like this. Custom waterblocks, perhaps?
Enjoy your vids bit-tech.
you'd slay on a datron
People don't seem to understand the ROI on the capability of these machines because they sort of serve a niche, and if you fill that niche, plate plastics and nonferrous, rapid workholding setups, there is nothing better on the planet. I cant wait to get the neo in my shop in January!
Same people will call Tormach 770m a toy when it can make you 6 figures in a year when you put it to work the right way. Every machine has its place imo, its all about getting the right tool for the job and with the resources you have available.
Yes! Congrats mate 👍
@@edwardkramer8562 Thanks Ed! I will definitely be in touch when I get it in the shop for some pointers!
@@ClockwerkIndustries yikes. tormach is a toy, on top of being a low quality pile of shit. you really shot yourself in the foot on this one. 6 figures a year is uhh.....not good.
@@DieselRamcharger lol oh shit I forgot multimillion dollar companies spawn out of thin air, silly me! There are many people I have met with a Tormach or two doing 150-500k$ a year living a comfortable enjoyable life working from home and are content, and even more people who get a tormach as a stepping stone to industrial equipment as business grows, like I am doing. As I said every machine has its place and purpose, every person has different goals and visions for their life and business, Tormach has been kicking ass for me and I cant wait to get my Brother Speedio here very soon.
I have owned three Datron Machines, seven CR Onsrud Routers and one Fanuc Robodrill. I have been very happy with my Datron Machines. However, people have to understand these are not the same as a VF2 or even a VF4SS. These machine are amazing at what they do and have a purpose. If you are just running standard “mill” parts, these machines are not for you. If you want to do something different than everyone else with a Haas mill, then it is the right machine. I use the machines for very high end wood, plastic, and non-ferrous parts. I believe the Neo is worth the price. So your homework and learn about this style of vacuum. It is more like you run a router than a mill.
Hybrid Machining thank you for your thoughts and kind words Jeff.
How deep of a pocket or cut can you comfortably make on aluminum?
And that 10 letter word would be... phenomenal 😉
Keep the hard work. Proven cut will help makers and small shops to hit chips the right way. Seeing what you are doing around titanium and steel with this machine is eye-opening.
*Datron NEO* - _"The machine for when you didn't know you needed the part to be finished yesterday."_
I got a quote on one of these to replace my Tormach. The Neo starts around $98k US.
HOLY F
@@txm100 Really, its why the high-end guys don't want to return calls. Good quality new equipment is not cheap, and you better have some high paying jobs all lined up if you want to afford one.
@@tedsaylor6016 High end machine also make sense for speeding up. If you can make more parts per day on one machine, then it can also pay off. I mean during last video about cutting spherical shapes he cut the cycle time from 21 to 6 minutes by going to the Datron.
And babysitting a low end machine that you cannot trust also costs manhours. If you trust your machine, and you're conformable leaving it alone (overnight) then it's making money for you when you do nothing.
---
But in the end it really depends on the kind of parts that you try to make and the local economy that you live in. For some it makes sense to buy a more expensive machine, for some it doesn't make any sense at all.
$98k USD is out of my price range but what a great machine.
@@postiemania Down here in the commentsection is a comment from Stefan Gotteswinter. He goes into some more details and also mentions the drawbacks of Datrons. It could be that it doesn't suit your needs, maybe it's not of big use for your type of work even if you could afford it.
Have used a Datron M8 Cube. These machines mow through plastic and aluminum especially if you use their 4 in 1 bits.
Hey NYC CNC! like the video! we have 2 old DATRON machines and 2 newer machines with the NEXT controller that we just exited our learing with the controller and looking forward to much faster milling then the older haha! fun to see the NEO :)
Hopeing for some good videos with the NEO with differnt parts! if you guys will make some more ;) ;) ;)
I'm an old fart,71 ,and this stuff is all over my head. But I still love it!
wermacht worked aswell , but slower .
Think of it as an iPhone, but with a drill attachment.
Does it help?
@@danl.4743 It's the programming that I don't follow .But I can operate a Shaper, which you may not be aware of its' existence.I am sure that I could pick it up with a class or two some hands on experience and a manual of operations. I'll leave the CNC world to you youngins".
@@rudimarchand8613 Of course I am aware of the existence of the Shaper. This thing, right? ua-cam.com/video/1lCnG9hWC6w/v-deo.html
@@danl.4743 you pull my leg any harder it'll come out of the socket!
I’m in love this is really nice. The machines at work are old dinosaurs I’d love to use this or own one.
We have 2 datrons at work M8 and M10. Machine is a beast for aluminium to 8mm of material. Anything other HAAS kicks it ass bad.
Your saying up to 8mm depth on aluminum?
I should NEVER see this video. Now I'll be sad for the rest of my life.
Me to bro would trade my home made macine in the blink of an eye
Tose feeds and speeds that toolchanger damm boi
Whatever about that machine. Man, that enthusiasm is just incredible. If you could bottle it and sell it, you would be one wealthy fellow! Good job!!
Always loved the videos on UA-cam about Datron machines but only saw a Neo at EMO last year so far, no practical experience but these must be just awesome.
NYC CnC, are You going to make some more videos about the Datron? U promissed more to come but so far nothing was released. Would love to get more information and your thoughts on this machine.
i was literally just searching the datron neo ! Thanks John !
That denatured ethanol for coolant is awesome.
You could actually capture that ethanol if you build a condenser into the exhaust system. basically run the exhaust air through a big 18 wheeler radiator and use a fan to blow air over it. Could even add a water mist to the radiator to increase cooling capacity. The ethanol will condense and run out the bottom.
holy crap. I work in a cnc machine shop and I've never wanted one for myself so bad until this. that's my type of machine.
3:22 ethanol is literally alcohol, both in the trivial and scientific way. Denatured just means it's bitter.
what if you are machining steel and ran a bit too hard. some sparks fly and the alcohol catches on fire? This is possible, isn't it? or am I missing something here
Denatured means it's rendered not only bitter but toxic to humans for consumption with addition of methanol, gasoline, or any number of other denaturing agents.
@@EvolutionNot im just taking an educated guess but i think they keep the fuel air mixture super rich and going faster than the flame front speed of that certain fuel air mixture. Kinda like blowing out a candle
@@janderson2375 In the US only and it also depends on the brand. Most common is just 96% ethanol with bitrex and that's it.
They also never add gasoline, that would be ridiculous
@@ryanbernard6550 I would be concerned about that because alcohol mist is flamable regardless of the mix. If it's a mist, it's ready to make fireballs
this is cooler than a Lamborghini ... and even more expensive too
It looks like you have been getting great use out of your Datron machine. It was very interesting to see what you have been using it for.
Datron......? The only company that ignored sales calls and quote requests....
no kidding
Ah clearly you’ve not tried to purchase a Mazak.
Wow, I wasn't the only one!
I went to the site and didn't see any upfront pricing and just left the site as in my experience if you have to ask more than likely you can't afford it.
They're thinking is, If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
I have a question.... do you get payed to used this machines?.
Do Tormach, Datron or Kern pay you?. I do think it should be disclosed.
For this price you can get a full sized 50 taper haas. This is only for use in an office for companies who love tiny parts and spending crazy money on tech. This is well over $120k.
Great video, thank you for your feedback!
Interesting that it uses sacrificial ethanol for cooling and chip clearing. What’s the possibility of flash over?
Could you make a video showing the machine some more? How the frame is setup; the servos, etc? This video seems to suggest it’s kinda light in comparison to the big cast-iron behemoths that are often used to get rigidity... 🤔
I have a post up on my IG page with some good pics and video of my Neo with some of the sheet metal removed. You can get a good view of the polymer concrete frame and motion platform (servos, linear rails and ballscrews). Post is here -> instagram.com/p/B-gYeOGpZ_J/
The Neo weighs in at just under 2000 lbs.
Eddie Kramer - thanks. Very interesting.
I normally watch all my videos in 2x but just couldn't handle it with the speeds and feeds! haha
Guessing Datron doesn't sell their interface. It'd be nice to be able to interface older machines with the same or similar
Never seen a milling machine mill in a paint shaker before!
_Love_ people and _use_ things. Because the opposite never works.
Joshua Fields Millburn
Dayton are on the top of my wish list.
Powerful little machine, at least in capabilities.
I made most of the parts for my M134 with this Babe!
Man that thing rips
Datrons are similar price to drilltaps?? I thought they started over 200k for some reason
I think they're around 25k€ w/o shipping........
@@jdwogoman6061 like sub 100k?
@@jdwogoman6061 that's wild. I had no idea
Right around $100k
60k-80k min. depending on config.
Precision... compared to a router? If it is running 24/7 no problem... but if it is not, where is the value? In small size? Not needing a "shop environment"?
What an amazing machine!
For 30K less you can get a nicely equipped VF-2SS from Haas and buy tooling from almost any tooling source.
I thought that this Datron was only for use on soft metals. Yet you mentioned titanium and stainless steel. What will it cut and what is the optimum material to get this use this machine for?
Nice machine - we used DATRON along time :)
How is the smell in the shop from the ethanol coolant? I once sprayed isopropyl alcohol and the fumes were terrible. I'm also curious if it's safe to use ethanol when milling steel due to sparks and fire risk?
Its recommended to use an oil lubricant when machining steel. as for the fumes, you can smell the alcohol in the air, but it is not a strong smell as the machines are a closed system
What a machine!
I've heard from Datron owners that the spindles only last around 500 hours. One shop showed us the repair records for 8 spindles in 3 years. Anyone have input based on personal experience? We looked into buying a Datron a few years ago, and the sales guy wouldn't give us a quote. After a bit of confusing conversation, he explained that we "can't afford" one of his machines. A year later, a sales manager called and asked why we decided against buying a Datron M8, and I told him what happened with his sales team. He still did not give us a quote. Our Hurco has an 80k spindle, so we're doing fine without this machine, but I do wonder how this company gets away with these serious issues on both the sales and support sides.
Most Datron machines are for light metals. Mainly aluminum.
The footprint, interface, tool changer, alcohol mist coolant system, and vacuum system this has would be amazing for a hobbyist machine, if the price just wasn't so damn high. I really wish some of these companies would see the potential that the hobbyist and small shop market has, nobody at the low end has the money for a machine like this, yet this machine should be the baseline standard for what hobbyists and small shops need; the vacuum work holding is a bit extra, but I think vacuum on a machine this small has it's benefits, especially if you look at the hobbyist and small shop market where these people don't necessarily want to invest even more money into an ecosystem of work holding parts. It's too bad the potential lower end of the market is severely neglected by these companies.
I'd be curious what actually goes into that $120k price tag for a machine this size.
The Neo uses many German-sourced high quality sub components which does factor into the price. Schneeberger linear rails, Bosch-Rexroth servos and drivers, MicroJet MQL system, etc. The vacuum pump alone costs more than most hobby-grade CNC machines. That being said, something like a Carbide3D Shapeoko with linear rail/ball-screw and spindle upgrade along with a Datron-style vacuum system and ethanol MQL would make a killer hobby aluminum eater.
If you like the speed you should look up the DMG Mori HSC Mills
Datron is very interesting machine, but i heard that spindel life is just half a year or so (if it runs 8hours a day). New one is obviosly very expensive, can somebody, who used datron, comment on that fact?
We’ve had 5 Datron’s, all but one have in our opinion performed poorly when looking at spindle life
The spindle life ist amazing no doubt
I wonder if they have a deal on a slightly used Neo now? :)
Really nice video John! Ićm glad to see that there are other materials than aluminium cut with the Datron... Do you know what price range that machine is at with included probing?
The 40,000 RPM spindle is _________ Awesome.
Astonishing
Dream machine
I got a quote for this machine (Datron Neo) and it was 70.000€. Not worth it.
all depends what you are making...if you need super precision on high value parts then it would soon pay for itself...if you want to make low value high tolerance bobbins for "Bob's widgets" then go buy something more appropriate.
@@davewilliams6172 The mechanics of the machine doesn't impress me either. If you look closely you can see that the machine has rolled ball screws which makes me question the claims of high-precision. And they could at least put some sort of covers over the rails and the ball screws.
@@VId_Kok If you're uninformed, why would you make a definitive statement? You obviously don't know what you're talking about, and that is ok. But don't act like you do know. If you got a quote and you're not making that up, you obviously looked into its capabilities and decided it would be good for the parts you make, so why don't you know much about it?
@@xenonram What did I say that is untrue?
Datron sucks. They had one at one of my last shops. the table wasn't even flat. there vise system sucks for it as well. diffidently not wroth the money. Then your stuck
with buying their collets only. Which aren't cheap either.
Over £100 for the direct clamping collet on the M8 😳
So wait, is this thing a steel construction or is it an epoxy granite structure like they use on the m8 cube?
~$100k, in case you were wondering.
Is there no risk of explosion hazards when using ethanol as a coolant?
Datron recommends 99% EtOH, but only for non-ferrous and plastics and things that don't generate a lot of heat. It's MQL, so there is very little of it around, and it has an exhaust similar to a laser cutter. So it's not much of an issue.
I've been saying for ten years, why don't ALL machines nowadays have camera systems inside to speed up setup.
Nice!
ATB, Robin
Fuking love it
As per proven cut chart u displayed, MRR is O for anything but plastic and aluminum.
Cool machine but i will spend the $$ on a HAAS VF4-SS instead.
Competent different uses. That's like comparing a SUV to a pick-up truck. If you need a bed, you buy a pickup. If you need covered cargo and passenger carrying capabilities, you buy an SUV. Most people are either in the market for a SUV OR a truck, not both.
@@xenonram Or you can get a chevy avalanche and have a vehicle that does neither job well :P
Andrew Delashaw Quite a high price for a mini SUV.
I have both, you’ll be better served by a haas 👍🏻
i have the same one, have you another solution of Datron to buy the tools ? thank you
Damn it now I want one
An interesting machine...... and interesting that SMW are not choosing to keep it. They seem to me to be very specialised machines which are excellent if you have the work that suits them......but then the pricing quoted here in the comments - Yikes!
By the sounds of it, the machine was loaned to them for basically free. They got some free use out of it, and to showcase the proven cut parameters.
Yeah, the price is outrageous. Hard to tell exactly what these machines are for. They feed fast though, but you can only use small tools anyways.
what is the price of that machine?
after 9 phone calls full of sales pitches and BS, i finally got the price , i was thinking 15 or 20 grand and i can have one tomorrow. nope 120k with almost NO options . thats why they are so good at hiding the price . i had to almost con them into telling me . they acted like " who DOESNT have an extra 120k laying around " hang on let me look in my ashtray in the car OH yeah here it is 120k send me one out !!! IDIOTS
Thanks, you saved me the effort. Also how much options does no option have?
Not really fair, expecting a machine like this for 20k is pretty unreasonable. You are getting a high tier machine with a very high rpm spindle, extreme speed, a granite base, advanced control, and so on. Not even to mention the precision. This is not a hobby machine.
The components are very expensive ..
It’s obviously not a hobby machine. I am not that surprised at the 120k price tag. It is a mini machine center geared towards designers and engineers with limited machine experience. Thus the fancy and “user friendly” control. And trust me, in hardware and medical R&D, 120k is a sizable, but not outrageous budget.
If you want to start a machine shop. Get a couple Haas. This thing has its niche market, but not for hobbyists.
Completely unreasonable to think a machine of this quality would be less than $20,000. I bet the high frequency spindle, drive and chiller are pushing $15,000 on their own.
hey, where is the machinist relay project at?
Hey Saunders, do you think Pierson pallets would be an appropriate fit for this mill?
The Neo has about 7 inches of clearance between the table and the bottom of the gantry. The Pierson system would work but you would give up most of that Z-axis travel due to the height of the PW pallet and base.
How do you get away machining stainless steel (or any ferrous material) using ethanol as coolant?
They don't. For ferrous metal they use Vegetable oil water mixture. You switch between the 2.
This is really a nice machine! Not this fancy, but I built a CNC Milling Machine from scratch myself - you might like it :)
Just another manufacturer that refuses to publish prices and forces you to get a quote. Why would i ever do business with a company like that?
I love this masterpiece of german engineering. Datron always made the best and innovative CNC Products, but they are a bit pricy.
far far far removed from the best.....they fill a niche. thats it. much better machines out there, which is easy enough to prove by simple market share.
@@DieselRamcharger market share doesn't tell the whole story. It is very very very very simple.
the "best" machines cost millions, this is justhigh end
It was at the time the best in its class.
is this model available in India?
how much?
Muito bom parabéns
Whats the price tag on it?
100k
I wonder if Datron knew they weren't going to film any videos with it, would they still have sent it? They filmed half a video with it and this one over 6 months.
it was for provencut. do you understand how invaluable it is for them to be able to tell a customer "yeah we're on provencut so for materials you're not familiar with just go grab a recipe from there?"
not to mention it's been in several videos and all over instagram.
"amazing" -- or should I say "amaaaazing"?
or should I say "priiicee!"
Can the machine carve out a dog statue for example with proper programming and image data?
price range please
200k
Neo is 110k-135k depending on the options you get like probing features and vacuum system. My quote was 130k I think.
@@Vik_ru Your price would be in the ballpark for the larger Datron machines like the M8Cube but the smaller Neo starts at about half that price.
Price?
What does dog do there on 1:15? Is it service engineer ? :3
That’s Judd, the quality control engineer. 🐕
Wow
Yeah it's cute n stuff. Found a used one for 100k...You better be prototyping every other hour for that cost. No thx.
Found an old used Datron M3 for £5k, completely missed the opportunity in the end. Very frustrating!
that one is shit with crappy guides, not comparable at all, thats mildly better than the diy routers with a lot more hassle@@michaelkelly3158
Adding a camera and using it to zero a machine has been around for years, I do it on my router.
daniel lyall
What brand of router?
Well of you could give more insights about it I think many would appreciate. I thought was quite unique and not easy to implement it
There's a little more going on than that on the Datron machines. The camera can (optionally) be used to set a zero like if you were locating a fudicial on a PCB but it's primarily there to drive the probing workflow for the integrated Renishaw probing system. It is very intuitive, fast and works phenomenally well in my experience
@@samboles8796 one running Mach3
@@MrDaniell1234 I use Mach3 as well and would be cool to have a camera. Didn't think was possible with such old program.
120K for that machine....yeah right lol
120k my Taig cost 1k I could buy 120 Taig micro mills...
On Ali you will find a machine for 100usd - a great choice! You can buy 1200 pieces!
But the Datron can make parts profitably...
@@hscrfc11 Yea after you make 120,000 dollars in profit, you can make parts profitably with the Taig. that being said, I was totally NOT serious just kidding.....
How much?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An answer would be nice.
100k
please name a price range of the machines
100k
how mach？
ou fk :D next lvl shit in controling cncs :D like that ^^
WHICH MODEL IS THIS? IS THIS AVAILABLE IN INDIA
hi, bacteria breeds on the tramp oil and book and crannies, ours is a redox system which is a system incorporating multimedia metals and once the coolant passes through it the bacteria and fungi are 100% eliminated and the killing process just goes on forever, you just have to add good water for topping up and concentrates to maintain the concentration, if not inconvenient send me your email address I would send you the details of the system.