The Book of Abraham: A Fraudulent Text
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2018
- The Book of Abraham has been a continuous problem for the veracity of Joseph Smith's claims which led to the formation of the Mormon church. This video addresses these problem and responds to common Mormon apologetic arguments.
The content of this video is originally from my blog, here:
www.patheos.com/blogs/justands...
Support this channel on Patreon:
/ justandsinner
I'm reading this nonsense right now.
" A translation of some ancient records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt"
A Priceless artifact just fell into the hands of Joseph Smith did it?
Well isn't that convenient. God must REALLY love this guy. First he gets a personal visit from pretty much everyone important in the Bible, including the father himself!
Then he gets the Golden Plates.
And he also got this manuscript??
What are the odds?
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)
Angels that are from God teach from Christ, Angels from the Devil say there is no Christ, putting it simply.
@@nuuh920 No, angels from satan say if you eat you shall be as gods in the high Celestials with many sealed wives making spirit babies for your very own creaton. Satan's angles say salvation can only be had if you join the LDS corporation in water baptism, believe that Joseph is a true prophet of god and the BoM is true. Isn't a reformed gospel a "contrary" Gospel?
And repeated again in v 9
Galatians 1:9
King James Version
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Revelations 14:6
. 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
So if the Everlasting gospel was already on the earth, then john the revelator would have never prophesied of an angel flying through the midst of heaven and brining forth the everlasting gospel??
This is the very issue that finally persuaded me that Mormonism is probably false. However, it triggered in me a general crisis of faith in Christianity as a whole. Smith is close enough to our time for us to examine his with some degree of accuracy - but what are we to make of Paul, or the old prophets, or Moses or Abraham? Could they not all have been "Smiths"? I only really resolved this by leaving "Smith was a fraud" aside and immersing myself in the Biblical scriptures themselves.
This issue was DEBUNKED. The EGYPTOLOGISTS were DEBUNKED in 2014.
@Martin Tunnicliffe you test the prophets. By doing so you verify the one true GOD who speaks the end from the begining. Isa. 66:8 was fulfilled in 1948. Ezek. 4:1-5 began with signs in the heavens being a blood moon tetrad with all 4 blood moon eclipsis landing on GOD's feast days in 454 bc. Daniel's 70 weeks were marked by the same tetrad.
390 years later Ezek. 4:1-5 is fulfilled in a "iron" Rroman "pan" shield siege in 63 bc led by Pompey.
483 years to the day and hour JESUS says it is finished on Nisan 14 31 ad.
Ezek. 4:6-8 begins 31ad ending with Titus led iron pan siege.
Not one prophecy failed by GOD's true prophets Joseph failed at least 7 time with "I speak in the name of the lord". Zion will be established in Missouri in his generation, the return of Jesus in 56 years. USA destroyed, Congress broke up. A brother will leave on mission only to die instead is the short term prophecy he was tested by. Any other predections are false and time be our witness. He failed yet the Borg in the LDS cult still lie and say he is GOD's prophet. It is even a salvation requiremet that you must believe in Joseph the true prophet and his Book of Mormon is true.
You are barking up the wrong tree by trying to argue with John Gee. Dr Gee obviously didn't pay attention to what the Book of Abraham declared any more than you nor Mr. Osborne. We have been carefully watching Paul Gregesens video part 15. Paul has clearly demonstrated from the text itself what all of you obviously missed. In his new video he points out where Abraham was commanded to teach the Egyptians about a Hebrew astronomy ALONE! It says right in the text why the astronomy itself was nothing but an object lesson to teach the Egyptians about Abrahams family which was Israel. In other words, nothing in the entire Book of Abraham was claiming Egyptian anything unless it was counterfeiting Noah. Chapter one clearly says anything Egyptian was pure Idolatry! WHY DO YOU GUYS, ALONG WITH DR. GEE, AND OTHERS IGNORE THIS TEXTUAL FACT?
What this means is this, trying to show discrepancies about Joseph Smith getting anything Egyptian wrong is ridiculous and a complete waist of everyone's time! The text clearly says God told Abraham to teach about Abrahams posterity ALONE!.
Cant any of you guys read? watch Gregersen's newest video through, its right in front of your face!
Joseph Smith said he only added the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham in order to demonstrate how false gods are fashioned. "Abraham 1:14" Egyptians counterfeiting Gospel truths in order to alter everyone's true understanding. See Abraham chapter one. In other words all Smith was doing is reversing what the Egyptians counterfeited and got wrong back into what God intended. God told him to only teach the Egyptians about his seed which is Israel.
Trying to find parallels to Abraham in order to prove how Smith knew nothing about Egyptian by digging up copied similar sources is simply pure speculation without any real evidence. Harold Bloom the famous Jewish Scholar said it was an impossibility that Smith could have copied names and places that were discovered in the dead sea scrolls over a hundred years later. likewise Oleshem is documented name today that no living scholar knew of in 1840. The Book of the giants discovered in the dead sea scrolls document that Smith knew of many things in the Book of Enoch that no man on earth had yet discovered until the dead sea scrolls.
The critics all ignore these real LIVING facts.
The story about Ahijah is only one of many impossibilities that not only identified an exact characters ancient name but even described the very role he played in Enoch's life story. Joseph Smith obviously wasn't just making things up just because Osborne spends years of his life searching for any long shot similarity that he can discover just so he can call it a perfect match! All yellow journalists do that same thing everyday and always call it truth. Gregersen has connected the real Abraham story by contrasting the Egyptian falsehoods with Hebrew outcomes using exact mathematical connections that cannot be shown to be manipulated. He has demonstrated it to correlate the very same matched history as we see in Daniel chapter two and in Revelation 13:18. The same 666 combines into two separate timelines without a heart beat of deceptive ways to achieve it. GREGERSEN HAS DESTROYED DAN VOGELS THEORIES BY DEMONSTRATING EXACTLY WHY THEIR HAD TO BE A LONG SCROLL.
@@richarddick2955 Why are you copying and pasting the same comment again and again?
@@memyselfandeye76
Because he's trying to defend his Prophet Joe.
The argument from silence is somewhat weakened, by the discovery of the Didache in 1883. It reflects a very primitive form of Christianity, and may well be as old as the first century: Yet it was wholly unknown and unattested before its rediscovery.
IMO, the blunders in Smith’s interpretation and translation - the ignorance of Egyptian eschatology, the misidentifications of the Canopic jars/Four Sons of Horus, the identification of Osiris Judge of the Dead as Abraham, the misidentification of Anubis, etc., - are the fatal arguments against the “Book of Abraham”’s genuineness.
The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014.
Your understanding of what Smith was doing is wrong headed. You have been lead down the wrong road and understanding of what Smith was doing. Your comparison has no relation to his actual Egyptian context. Smith's entire focus was to convert the false interpretations by the Egyptians back into a biblical understanding. See "Abraham 1:14" To see what you've been diverted from seeing Click UA-cam video titled "Book of Abraham part 13" and to see how the translation actually took place that you missed entirely, Click "Book of Abraham part 8" To see mathematical proof that Smith got everything perfectly right click "Book of Abraham part 9" Click my name to get there.
Smith got the canopic jars absolutely correct according to Egyptologists. Just proven! You are wrong! Click UA-cam video titled "Book of Abraham part 13" by me.
@@paulgregersen3570 Pretty sure James Cameron will not respond back. As I have yet to have encountered any anti-Mormon that can refute that FAIR info and your pro-Book of Abraham videos.
@@richardholmes7199 Seems you are well seasoned in their nack to run away. I recently put up a new video about Kolob.
Every time I try to understand the mind/heart of a Mormon, I don’t understand how they have accepted such overt fraud…for so long. For a people who value history and ancestry so much, it’s really an unreconcilable concept for me UNLESS I have a very poor understanding of groupthink and complete info manipulation.
Just got back from Egypt (2 weeks ago) Saw many things in person (etched into the walls of the temples) from the book of Abraham + temple ceremonies in the temples hieroglyphics! (3k years back) You can't make that stuff up. Interesting how Smith may have "guessed" those things given his background. Anyway food for thought :)
The problem isn't with us "Mormons". Really, it has more to do with Evangelicals and other Christians accepting what "Egyptologist" say about the Book of Abraham when you don't do the research to find out what those same Egyptologist say about the existance of Moses or Abraham as told in Genesis. You worship atheist scholars.
@@nute742Love your three day old fish you posted. Does a fine race of white people dressed like Quakers on the oatmeal box really live on the moon like Joseph said? How about Brigham Young saying the surface of the sun is inhabited "if not, God made it in vain", LOL.
This is direct from the LDS church web site: "None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Mormon scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments.27 Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived."
Read this for yourself at www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng#overview
It seems the LDS church is admitting the fraud of the "Book of Abraham". /
Dr Spaseebo this is a pointless argument because the witnesses to the Book of Abraham all agree that it was contained in long scrolls, far more than the pieces we have today. The Church admitting the fragments we do have aren’t describing what Smith claims doesn’t hurt him a bit. We simply don’t know everything so I think people are putting a very high standard on it. Didn’t see that did you lol however, the Book of Jasper, and the Book of Josephus describe events eerily similar events with the Book of Abraham
WHEN are you going to admit the EGYPTOLOGISTS were DEBUNKED? You know damned good and well that one by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists back in 2014 by demonstrating Joseph Smith's translation/explanation of the Egyptian sensen text papyri was never supposed to match up with the translation from that of the Egyptological field to begin with. Therefore, when are you going to admit the Egyptologists were debunked?
Mormons now claim, "he didn't use it to literally translate the book of Abraham but rather 'inspiration' for translating the book of Abraham through the power of God."
Their words, not mine 🙄🤦♂️
@@richardholmes7199 Gregerson? That's your scholar? He's an LDS apologists and he has come up with abatshit crazy system of numerology to prove the Book of Abraham and other Mormon craziness. Basically, he's set himself up as a new prophet. Yes, let's trust the guy with the Tin Foil Hat and Magic Underwear who signed a doctrine of faith to never doubt the authenticity of Mormon Scripture.
@@Doc-Pleroma-naut ''That's your scholar?'' This is not a scholarly subject. Only the UNINTELLIGENT think this explanation/revelation of the Book of Abraham is to be interpreted scholarly.
In the book of Jesher, Osiris is mentioned, but it's spelled Oswiris. Is that the same Egyptian god Osiris?
Yes. Just as the mention of the Sons of Anuk are the Anunaki.
I also forgot to mention and it's not touched on here in the video, but Joseph Smith wrote three volumes which are typically called the Joseph Smith papers, where he gives the alphabet of the ancient Egyptians. I have these books on PDFs and I immediately started laughing because it wasn't known then, but ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and Aramaic are related dialects... Which didn't use vowels.
Also, not many people know this either, but it was once thought that the collection of papyri in which Joseph Smith used in order to translate the book of Abraham, was thought to have burned in the infamous Chicago fire in 1836. When they were found in 1973, they were presented to the then president/prophet of the church who had refused to take them. They were instead sent to the Brigham Young University and salt lake City. I forget the gentleman's name, but he told the public that he was going to present his findings as he progressed in the translation of the papyri. After almost a year, he said that there is no one including himself that has the necessary knowledge in order to translate the text.. translation, we realized that the Book of Abraham is bullshit, but we're not going to be the ones to throw the religion under the bus.
This was when the church announced in 1975 that the papyria that was found in a New York vault is not the papyri used to translate the book of Abraham, despite the papyri had Joseph Smith's drawings, notes, and pieces of parchment where he himself had practiced writing the hieroglyphs.
The church was already deep in a controversy that had been going for 2 years prior to this announcement, after most of the public learned that black people weren't allowed to hold the priesthood in the Mormon church. This may be a blessing in disguise since the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints is a cult, but nevertheless became a heated subject amongst both Christians and atheists.
One more thing; the original name of Anubis in Egypt is yunipu. The name Anubis is the Roman translation
Case closed.
The Egyptologists were thoroughly, soundly debunked in 2014, what do you mean case closed?
Init😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@Alpha Centauri You all have been debunked.
your closed mind is what is closed.
@@richardholmes7199 the Egyptologists who made claims against the LDS book of Abraham could not even recognized the the text has Hebrew words. The Egyptologists just ignored what they did not understand.
Confused with 6:48 no picture change. I'd love to see more mormon videos
I'd also like a countdown of your favorite straight edge records. thanks
Ryan Peacock The image I am taking about is the one being shown.
@Jordan Cooper Why are you spreading lies about the translation of the Book of Abraham?
Has thee above video been updated? As ALL ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO (books, You Tube videos, sites) was DEBUNKED in the year 2014. Thee above video therefore should be updated to show this, shouldn't it? Yes, of course. Of course since the anti-Book of Abraham efforts, efforts over a century old, have been debunked then there should be some kind of a notification of this to all who see thee above You Tube video. For example maybe run messages across the screen of your video stating that thee information presented on this video has been debunked. As thee information that you all thought was so solid has now turned out to be proven as idiotic. You'd have to be pretty unintelligent to the max and then some to think that this WHOLE TRANSLATION process was supposed to be seen as being translated the way that thee Egyptologist's say that it's supposed to be translated like, in other words.
@Jordan Cooper My last post was kind of a bit of a general message. This is about your above video. Your above video is using that anti-Mormon christian driven anti-Book of Abraham information, is it not? Yes, of course. Therefore you're debunked, ALL ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO WAS DEBUNKED in 2014.
The head Joseph drew on the priest actually looks pretty similar to the head of the figure on the table. So I wouldn't say it doesn't match the rest of the image.
It was never supposed to be that anything matched. This IS what DEBUNKED the EGYPTOLOGISTS and the ANTI-MORMON christians, proved them dumb. As you know that the anti-Mormons have been saying Joseph Smith is a false prophet because his translation of the Egyptian characters didn't match up with the translation from that of the Egyptological field. However Joseph Smith's translation was never supposed to match up with the one from that of the Egyptological field to begin with. Rather Joseph Smith translated back to the original. The assumption Joseph Smith's translation was supposed to match is the assumption that debunked the Egyptologists.
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
@@richardholmes7199 That is actually a book of the dead. Egyptian tradition fool!
The info Jordan Cooper is presenting has been debunked.
@@Army101ful None of you have a clue on the right way to have interpreted.
Actually the Rosetta stone had been unearthed by Napoleon's soldiers at that time and Champollion was actively deciphering it. However this was not widely known outside the scholarly community. (Just saying)
Excellent video. I really appreciate your thorough analysis
?
Thorough? The Egyptological assessments that he is using against Joseph Smith were proven wrong back in 2014, what do you mean, ''thorough''?
@@richardholmes7199 Did you miss that brief clip on Mormon Stories recently? The one where Gregerson retracts his theory. You did miss it? Oh, well looks like you've been hung out to dry.
@@Themanyfacesofego Retracts his story?
@@richardholmes7199 Theory. You've been left high and dry.😂
Do another video about the book of abraham
You are barking up the wrong tree by trying to argue with John Gee. Dr Gee obviously didn't pay attention to what the Book of Abraham declared any more than you nor Mr. Osborne. We have been carefully watching Paul Gregesens video part 15. Paul has clearly demonstrated from the text itself what all of you obviously missed. In his new video he points out where Abraham was commanded to teach the Egyptians about a Hebrew astronomy ALONE! It says right in the text why the astronomy itself was nothing but an object lesson to teach the Egyptians about Abrahams family which was Israel. In other words, nothing in the entire Book of Abraham was claiming Egyptian anything unless it was counterfeiting Noah. Chapter one clearly says anything Egyptian was pure Idolatry! WHY DO YOU GUYS, ALONG WITH DR. GEE, AND OTHERS IGNORE THIS TEXTUAL FACT?
What this means is this, trying to show discrepancies about Joseph Smith getting anything Egyptian wrong is ridiculous and a complete waist of everyone's time! The text clearly says God told Abraham to teach about Abrahams posterity ALONE!.
Cant any of you guys read? watch Gregersen's newest video through, its right in front of your face!
Joseph Smith said he only added the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham in order to demonstrate how false gods are fashioned. "Abraham 1:14" Egyptians counterfeiting Gospel truths in order to alter everyone's true understanding. See Abraham chapter one. In other words all Smith was doing is reversing what the Egyptians counterfeited and got wrong back into what God intended. God told him to only teach the Egyptians about his seed which is Israel.
Trying to find parallels to Abraham in order to prove how Smith knew nothing about Egyptian by digging up copied similar sources is simply pure speculation without any real evidence. Harold Bloom the famous Jewish Scholar said it was an impossibility that Smith could have copied names and places that were discovered in the dead sea scrolls over a hundred years later. likewise Oleshem is documented name today that no living scholar knew of in 1840. The Book of the giants discovered in the dead sea scrolls document that Smith knew of many things in the Book of Enoch that no man on earth had yet discovered until the dead sea scrolls.
The critics all ignore these real LIVING facts.
The story about Ahijah is only one of many impossibilities that not only identified an exact characters ancient name but even described the very role he played in Enoch's life story. Joseph Smith obviously wasn't just making things up just because Osborne spends years of his life searching for any long shot similarity that he can discover just so he can call it a perfect match! All yellow journalists do that same thing everyday and always call it truth. Gregersen has connected the real Abraham story by contrasting the Egyptian falsehoods with Hebrew outcomes using exact mathematical connections that cannot be shown to be manipulated. He has demonstrated it to correlate the very same matched history as we see in Daniel chapter two and in Revelation 13:18. The same 666 combines into two separate timelines without a heart beat of deceptive ways to achieve it. GREGERSEN HAS DESTROYED DAN VOGELS THEORIES BY DEMONSTRATING EXACTLY WHY THEIR HAD TO BE A LONG SCROLL.
Thank you for such a detailed accurate explanation of this! ❤❤❤❤
I hope Mormons can start thinking
You asked that Mormons start thinking concerning the Book of Abraham two months ago. Ok, let's first begin by showing you why everything you've been spoon fed from the (anti Mormons) can quickly be destroyed in just a few short minutes. we can show you exactly how the smoke any mirrors hide what they don't want you to see and craftily make up false evidence to make you think it's real evidence against the book of Abraham. If I can't prove to you that you have been a victim of fraudulent information easily then I will publicly apologize. link UA-cam video titled ( BOA ep 16) link Paul Gregersen to get there.
@@paulgregersen3570 you should argue with the one that made this video. How about that?
some just can't let go of their pedophile "prophet" that they came to believe in since they were born in a household that believed in that pedophile. logically thinking that just because i was born in and grew up in this household doesn't necessarily mean the religion this household believes isn't true is just too much for them to do... tsk tsk
they're just like Muslims. They so share this in common. They both have pedophile "prophets" and they're usually of that religion because they were born in that household. And no matter what things are presented that show that their religion is bogus, they resist and resist and go with 'since i was born in this household it just has to be that this religion is true and im going to reject all the evidence that shows this religion is false'
@@kpballa1009 Look above my post. I have argued with him. He cannot debunk what I propose. I actually can prove that he is completely wrong, that is why not one of these critics that you've obviously bought into dare challenge my video. Rather than assume I'm just mislead, I challenge you to be principled enough to hear all sides rather than allow your own bias to govern what may not be true. A wise person always tests before they start talking. I tell you I've just destroyed everything you thought was true and I can prove it. The entire argument is reduced to zero. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link Paul Gregersen to get there
@@kpballa1009 I guess you haven't heard the new evidence that debunks those claims also. The DNA testing just proved no children ever came from Smith's polyandrous wives. No husbands ever complained because the Sealings were for the after life only. These were men who didn't want a marriage after death or didn't believe in it. All the kids came from these men who stayed married to these women till death did them part. (Their agreed covenant only)!.
@@kpballa1009 Out of hundreds of these kids up until today, not one of them ever said J. Smith stole their mother from their Dad. Even the ones born later who quit the church! Not one broken home came by Smith! If there had been anti Mormons would have plastered it half way around the world already. It simply didn't happen.
I would be interested to know who IS NOT Mormon and disagrees with this analysis of The Book of Abraham.
Good video. Thank you. I appreciate the time you spent researching.
Agreed fully! Here are my thoughts: There are two possibilities:
1) The Book of Abraham is TRUE; Joseph Smith translated it accurately; all leading Egyptology experts are WRONG in stating Joseph Smith's translation to be utter nonsense.
OR 2) The Book of Abraham is a FALSE translation, confirmed by MANY leading experts in lingusitics and Egyptology.........
Let's examine this further by watching these 2 videos: ua-cam.com/video/YWmHQbaLq6E/v-deo.html coldcasechristianity.com/2014/how-the-book-of-abraham-exposes-the-false-nature-of-mormonism/
My opinion is that Joseph Smith committed deeply serious religious FRAUD with his "translation" of the "Book of Abraham". The papyri comprise a common and well-known FUNERARY SCRIPT written 2,000 years AFTER Abraham lived, and very familiar to Egyptologists, with absolutely zero to do with Abraham.
Of course, Smith did not know that very soon the ancient Egyptian language (hieroglpyhic and hieratic scripts) would be fully deciphered: he believed no one would ever be able to challenge his rendering of the papyri, for at the time of his "translation", Egyptian scripts had not been cracked.
~~~
As far as I know, Joseph Smith was not an accomplished linguists nor had he university degrees in Egyptology or religion, nor had he travelled to Egypt. On the other hand, here's the expert professional opinion of Gleason Archer, PhD. (Harvard University), a linguist in 28 languages, including Egyptian scripts, who said, of Smith's "translation": "Earlier negative verdicts of scholars like Theodule Devaria of the Louvre, Samuel A.B. Mercer of Western theological Seminary, James Breasted of the University of Chicago, and W.M. Flinders Petrie of London University (who had all been shown Smith's facsimiles) were clearly upheld by a multitude of present-day Egyptologists. Their finding was that not a single word of Joseph Smith's alledged translation bore any resemblance to the contents of this document.
"It turned out to be a late, even Ptolemaic copy in hieratic script of the Sensen Papyrus, which belongs to the same genre as the Egyptian Book Of The Dead.
"Needless to say, the completely mistaken concept of Joseph Smith as to his competence in ancient Egyptian is now clearly demonstrated to be beyond debate."
~~~
"BEYOND DEBATE". The "Book of Abraham" is a proven FRAUD! Smith did not get a "single word" right !
~~~
May I refer you to these videos:
ua-cam.com/video/YWmHQbaLq6E/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/CMeMQQINYDU/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/HooDSo01_aw/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/JazQna4j0zc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/WQZVF3LB_3A/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
and to these sites:
mormonthink.com/book-of-abraham-issues.htm
mormonismdisproved.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/book-of-abraham-fraud-explained.html
cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/book-of-abraham.html
www.conchisle.com/pg.htm /
@@drspaseebo410 Are you dumb enough to have believed that the way the Egyptologists are saying this was supposed to be translated is the right way to have interpreted here?
Klarity*11,
He did very little research.
Why hasn't he told you about the Chicago fire where almost all the scroll was burnt before the Egyptologists were able to translate it, the Egyptologists only translated a fragment of the long scroll.
The other part he failed to tell you is not everything in the book of Abraham is from that scroll, some is from Revelations that don't even correlate with anything on the scroll.
The last part he's failed to tell you is the Egyptologists were proven wrong.
Remember that Critics never tell you everything.
@@danielmoore4024 Smith published the facsimiles in the Times and Seasons
End of Story. It's fake news
@@danielmoore4024 And you actually believe that god sent an angel to force Joseph Smith against his will to marry all those children and other men's wives or be destroyed.... ?
See Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham, a response by Dr. Robert K. Ritner, professor of Egyptology, University of Chicago, 2014
Read the gospel topic essay dealing with the BA on the church website. The church has changed its narrative in recent years.
Its almost as funny as how they admit Joseph Smith married a child, though they try to childishly deny the fact by using really childish argumentation like "before her 15th birthday" like like 10 months before.
@@kenziek670715 still gets you 5 to 10 even back in the 1800s. Brigham Young married a 13 year-old child when he was in his 50s but they name the University after him. We know who they serve and it's not GOD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
You have used false images of Joseph Smith in this false interpretation of the Book of Abraham, which is just 5 chapters long, for which the long scroll of papyri written in red ink is not extant. The facsimile explanations are likely exegetical translations, not literal word for word translations of what appears on the facsimiles.
I love how you vot for your own messages. Nope the facsimiles we have and the hard written text the fraud and inventor of Mormonism wrote where in he pretended he could read Egyptian show very much the papyrus is what he used. This is almost as funny as you LDS invented that Hoax the bat creek stone, or "NHM" or sais DNA proved the Book of Mormon. You guys, wow. I am so glad I left your "church" if you want to call it that.
@@kenziek6707 isn’t the seer stone just a rock
@@justins5756 yea of course they cant let anyone handle the magic rock or they will see that. Its all quite funny. The church shows it can only keep stepping in it. There was a hearing involving Joseph Smith which we have records for, he was in this hearing for pretending to be a glass looker. His stellar defense was that he wasn't pretending at all that he really could find treasure with his magic rock, when asked if he ever did find any his defense to that was something to the effect o f"well no but its just keeps slipping away". The church just attempts to deny the entire thing.
Its all like how the church revises segments of what published in church history heavily editing them to make them seem more prophetic and then adding them to D&C to make it seem like he could see into the future. What just a belly buster is the current dill; weeds in the upper church all claim they can too. Those in the church have to say they believe and support them to get a temple recommend. What a cult.
Its all so laughable.
Missing scrolls, plates taken by the Indian giver Moroni, missing pages the scribes wife took but those pages were insignificant to the body of work, fake brass plates translated by the stone seer, LOL. There is still one thing missing "Missouri Zion" prophesy to be established in Joseph's generation; Deut. 18:20-22.
If the BoM was divinely inspired through Joseph Smith, why the 5000 changes?
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.
Yep..all the Egyptologists worked together to conspire against the Mormon Church...but they didn't count on Paul Gregersen
The Egyptologists were debunked by Paul Gregersen.
“No one will tell you. UA-cam: Joseph Smith HORROR mansion”
Dude literally drew a white persons head where anubis's head should be. 😂😂
...what does jesus cation his apostles? Not to cast your pearls among swine.....and just like the book of Enoch, it was left out of the bible.
Jesus said don't preach the gospel where people won't listen. Pearls represent the gospel. Swine represent repobates
Notice that Bin Ren doesn't say anything about the Egyptologists being debunked.
Enoch was clearly known and referenced by the writers of the NT though. So that isn't a sound argument....
It's amazing how this guy was identified as a fraud. Not really everyone already knew years ago.
DrvHugh Nibley and other lds scholars have written several volumes on the issues of the Book of Abraham, far better scholarship than what is presented in this video.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists.
Good and succinct information. I was an active member over 20 years. Pray, pay & stay. Left because as I got older, and well before the Internet, I could see the carpets were covering large holes.
I traveled a lot and the first notes of light, other than the technology and agricultural anachronisms, were my traveling back and forth to rhe UK.
History shows an occupation of the Isles of Britain by those who Romed the land. OK, bad joke. The Romans occupied the land south of Scotland, built several protective walls, which still in part stand. Created a huge bath area, known as Bath, created roads, paved over today, and by sheer cleverness and future economics, the standard railroad width was determined from Roman chariot wheel width. That in turn was developed by the necessary width of typical Chariot draft horses. Therefore we owe some of our mote modern rail standards to two horses asses.
There's a point to be made, and it goes back to the previous video I saw of yours. When you have a significant cultural immigration and settlement, for hundreds of years, have huge battles, with the final battles massing people in battle well beyond thousands, there's going to be ample evidence of their existence. For everyone fighting, there are many more in support. We call that logistics. They have families, children toys, kitchen implements, settlements, tools necessary to create bows, cimiteters, arrows, shields, and swords. This has been found all over England and yet, none of that evidence exists in North, South, or Central America. In fact time periods of what we do know about indigenous people, don't align with or support the Book of Mormon background.
By the time Joseph Smith has a strong core of believers, many of them later, form a mix of cooperative grifters, separate and start their own purer splinter groups. In fact, it might be said that when Joseph Smith was killed, it simply set the stage for a man named Brigham Young to separate and isolate to the mountain west, now Salt Lake City area.
He took everything that Smith and company started, adding his own peckadillos, including lots of wives, housed in the first ideas of town homes (that's not true it's sarcasm). I use it to make another point. Much of what Smith revealed didn't sit so well with the highly racist Young. Smith gave out blessings and priesthood annoitings to black members. Young denounced this idea and declared, one drop of African blood would disqualify you from holding the priesthood. This was long vefore they would have the technical / medical capacity to support and bolster this claim. I don't doubt a few people who came out of Africa, and didn't look dark enough, were "annoited" in his time. Of course this was all conveniently set aside in the late 1970's. Which revealed, like the dismissal and banning of polygamy, proves that God's word stands unwavering (sarc). That is to say, until sufficient public opinion sways, only then it might alter those rascals point of view at the top, who find a convenient revelation at hand.
The modern day saints leaders still conive. I suspect they're not duped. They've managed to get their Church in the news, with a bad sign of supporting private businesses and investments with member free will donations.
You're absolutely right on target. I still have good friends, whom I know that have lived their lives in service to their family, friends, and community. It's not all bad, and like any chartered charity, they can and sometimes do good work. Once you're in, they prefer you pick friends, and especially spouses from the believers. I got out, and it has been better than when I was in (the morg) as opposed to the borg.
Good.job.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is to repent of your own sins and obey the commandments. Do this and leave all other things to the Lord. He will deal with Mormons as he sees fit.
This video has alot of misinformation. I'm really not here to bash. But theirs alot of things you got wrong. From an education standpoint. It doesn't prove the book of Abraham is true. I'm just saying theirs a bit of incorrect information in this video. I loved the video. I just want to make sure you aren't misinforming people by accident. I loved the video tho! Made pretty good!
Jordan Cooper is not misinforming people by accident. I have already informed him the egyptologists were debunked due to their assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist. See my comments in the Ryan Peacock comment in the comment section of this video. You'll see Jordan Cooper ignores my comments.
@@richardholmes7199 If this is true, this is Quite Frustrating.. Critics of the church get annoyed with the church when the lds members dont look at all of the information or all of the sides, when they themselves are doing the same thing. Its so frustrating and youv'e got to look at all of the sides and view points. Both sides have their fair arguements and reasons. But that's both sides. it's our responsibility to share and look at all of the information, and views. their's mis information in this video, and if he's not doing this by accident. Then he is misinforming his audiences. If he just did this by accident thats cool. Super Understandable most people dont have the time to look through that number of archives. But if he's intentionaly misinforming people. Intentionally. that's where i would have a problem. i'd either re upload this video with less misinformed information so he's not hurting his audience. or just delete it. You can verify that multiple things in this video don't line up with the archives, and he's misinforming people. If he really has a problem with these things. then he needs to do a video with more correct information and than give his side. Or we could talk and look at the archives, and we could civily just get correct information out their. whatever side.
@@brendanwilsonvfx5705 I've reported all of the false presentation of the Book of Abraham videos. I recently reported the above video. I reported it as spam, then chose the fraud option. If more report the false presentation videos like the above video it might do some good. If enough complaints are made at least there'll be a record of people reporting the intentional uncivil intentions of the anti-Mormon crowd like the above Jordan Cooper.
@@richardholmes7199 Yes their are some False Representations in this video, but at the same time. When i was Extremely Anti Lds, it was easy to only look at some of the information and not at it as a whole and get this interpretation, it wasn't till after looking at all of the data and both sides and evidences and improbilitys. I Leaned closer to the church’s history due to the misconceptions of the archives. The archives are all there but they can be easily misunderstood if not looked at in their contexts. Due to dates and when things where published and Joseph had access to things or didnt have access to things or impossibilitys.
So he could very well be misunderstanding this and not be intentionally trying to put false information out their.
It’s easy to see how this could be done.
The reason I may have a hard time just jumping onto the boat of he’s intentionally causing harm is because of a teaching of Joseph’s “Don't be limited in your views with regard to your neighbor's virtue...You must enlarge your soul towards each other.”
― Joseph Smith.
So I need more Persuasion. To be able to determine for sure if he is.
If he is intentionally putting out false thing’s even with the knowledge of recent discoveries and witnesses. Then I’d say Good Job, with scientific discoveries theory’s get put to rest as new discoveries are made all the time. He may just be putting out on youtube old arguments that he doesn't know yet have good arguments against, or he’s heard these arguments and still chooses to believe what he does despite all of coincidences and improbable timing’s that these events would have supposedly needed to have been their, when they weren't or couldn't have been their.
Misinformation is not good. But this Could be an older Video. Or he might not have looked into all of the archives quite yet. It takes a while…
Do you have any Evidence that he may be intentionally doing it knowing what he is doing is wrong?
If not i think its prob best we just inform him, and trust he’s just trying to help people. Unless we have clear reason to believe otherwise.
My Friend. I trust you have looked into these things and this is why you have marked these videos as spam or False Presentation.
You are a friend of mine, and im happy you have looked through these things and are trying to put truth out their.
I had a lot of Arguments as an anti Latter- day saint with a lot of members. I finally ran into the right logical people and decided to further my look into the actual archives themselves. The evidence for me point’s to Joseph’s Authenticity as clear as day. But there are A LOT of things that might not if misunderstood, Or if you don’t look at the context around those things. Always look at Context.
I wish You luck, and I think You Are Awesome.
“Never give up an old tried friend, who has waded through all manner of toil, for your sake, and throw him away because fools may tell you he has some faults.”
― Joseph Smith Jr.
“Friendship is one of the grand fundamentals of Mormonism.”
― Joseph Smith Jr.
“Trust in God, always take care of each other.”
― Joseph Smith Jr.
Dear Friend.
@@brendanwilsonvfx5705 ''Do you have any Evidence that he may be intentionally doing it knowing what he is doing is wrong?'' I informed him of this. I sent him a comment telling him that Joseph Smith wasn't supposed to translate the same way that an egyptologist would. And that the assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the same way an egyptologist would is what debunked the egyptologists. He didn't seem to be interested in getting this cleared up.
This guy has not read the Book of Abraham #1 he says the Gods mentioned in the BOA are Egyptian. : No they are not the are Gods of the people of Chaldees. #2 He says the Egyptians dd not sacrifice as mentioned in the BOA. Yes they did. In fact they are associated with enemies of the Pharaoh just like in the BOA. His claim that Egyptians did not sacrifice in the manner is completely false. We have many examples including some from the time of Abraham. Smith claims an ancient writer used Egyptian Book of the Dead facsmilies to tell events in the life of Abraham This practice was common and in fact we have an Egyptian facsimile exactly like the Mormon one with the name Abraham on it. The human head on the Anubis figure that this claims is wrong is indeed correct as other examples have been found mating the LDS one. There are other Books of Abraham not found in the Bible. The Ethiopians us a Book of Abraham called the Testament of Abraham. It to uses Egyptian Book of the Dead to tell the life of Abraham and it to was written at about the same time in Egypt. This guy is very ignorant and has even lied to bad mouth Mormons. Why?
are you familiar with the movie Zeitgeist: ua-cam.com/video/EqjkWNsePoU/v-deo.html or the work of the late D M Murdock? Oh and you made the same crucial error Mormon Apologists make; the explanation says the "Gods of ..." not the "God ..." And ummm...the Rosetta Stone was discovered in 1799 and deciphered by Jean Champolion and published in 1822 before 1835 when the papyri came to Joseph, and before the Book of Mormon that began plagiarization on 27 September 1827, which were plenty of time for Joseph to know that the Head Egyptian God was Amun which he spelled Ahman. Also in 1835-1836 Joseph learned Hebrew from Joshua Seixas which is why Joseph called the Hebrew word for firmament as "Raukeeyang
". Remember Joseph goes against BYU Apologists by explaining that Abraham's birth land was Egypt not Babylon or Mesopotamia. (see Fac 1 Figure 10). The Book of Mormon explains more about this when dealing with the Brass Plates as they are called. Joseph interpreted Ezekiel 37 of the Stick of Joseph as being an Egyptian document(s) to fix the translation errors and put back in the removed passages from the Torah. (Article of Faith #8) Thus he called the two papyri scrolls The Book of Abraham and the Book of Joseph. Joseph was not "translating" from the text but rather from the facsimiles as he says in the text in Chapter 1.
14 That you may have an understanding of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning, which manner of figures is called by the Chaldeans Rahleenos, which signifies hieroglyphics.
(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 1:14)
Joseph didn't call the text hieroglyphics but the accompanying picture glyphs. The text he referred to as "reformed Egyptian" as the Demotic text was on the Rosetta Stone, which was in the learning of the Greeks, rather than the "learning of the Jews" (1 Nephi 1:2).
Don't get me wrong BYU Apologists are clueless and Joseph Smith was no Egyptologist or Hebraist, but so are Egyptologists now that D M Murdock has died.
There is no “Chaldean” word “Rahleenos” meaning “hieroglyphics”. Had Smith been translating from Klingon, his words might look less implausible. Maybe the golden plates of the BoM were dropped off by the Enterprise D....
@@jamesmc04 Yes, and there is no "Hebrew word ABRAHAM" on the EGYPTIAN language papyri either. You are thinking in modern text translation of Egyptian and not in Knights Templar York Rites Jewish Mystical Egyptian Freemasonry for Bible composition. Joseph Smith Jr had nothing to do with the plagiarized composition of the Book of Mormon, as I'm referring to his King Follett Discourse and Egyptian Papyri translations. But I see you're not even aware of Klingon either. Qapla'
@@TravisWayneGoodsell1970 “Abraham” is a Hebrew name - why would it appear in an Egyptian text ?
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. As for the King Follett Discourse, how does that support the claims of the “Book of Abraham” about itself ?
As for Freemasons and Templars, they have as much relevance to texts in Egyptian as they do to the Loch Ness Monster - none at all. The case against the so-called “Book of Abraham” has nothing to do with Masons, Templars, or other such things; it rests on what Egyptologists know - but Smith & his circle did not know - about Ancient Egypt, its religion, and its language.
There are plenty of books about all aspects of Ancient Egypt - so anyone who wants to explore its religion has an abundance of material to refer to.
@@jamesmc04 Exactly! All you are doing is spouting off other people's accusations. You know nothing for yourself. You throw out Golden plates clueless that that is for the Book of Mormon not the video topic of the Book of Abraham. You claim there is no connection to Freemasons and Templars with Egyptian only because you don't know anything about them. You're just throwing out random accusations wanting attention hoping someone will pick up on it or trigger snowflakes and likewise spread the misinformation and disinformation that you yourself have been gullible to spread for others which makes you their puppet.
Travis Wayne Goodsell I was talking almost entirely about the video, about the so-called Book of Abraham. I referred briefly to the BoM. I did not confuse the two works. The so-called Book of Abraham shows itself not to be an Egyptian work, because of the absurd misidentifications of the figures in it. You are the one claiming that there is a connection between the papyrus which has been mistranslated as the “Book of Abraham”, and the Templars and Masons - nothing about the papyrus suggests this, so what is your evidence for making such assertions ? If you have a good case, it ought to be possible to put forward persuasive and well-founded arguments in favour of that case - so what are those persuasive and well-founded arguments ?
One cannot simply, without offering any evidence, assert that the Templars and Freemasons have something to do with the papyrus, or with Ancient Egyptian language, or their beliefs about the dead, if there is no evidence for any such connection. How would the Templars - a Catholic order of knights founded in 1128 AD - have anything to do with the papyrus, with the Ancient Egyptian language, with Ancient Egyptian beliefs about the dead, or with the (supposed) “Book of Abraham” ? What evidence is there, from their history (which lasted from 1128 to 1307) that any of them had any knowledge whatsoever of the language or the religion of Ancient Egypt ? A defence of the “Book of Abraham” that has to drag in the Templars and the (even later) Freemasons, is impossible to take seriously; such a defence is weakened by dragging them in - not stengthened.
hahaha, your funny. I chose Hugh Nibley over you.
for god so loved his children that he gave them permission to own each other as slaves and to beat those slaves to death as long as they dont die in 3 days. praise be to god!!
You're dishonest. As Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist crap presented on this above video. Are you going to publish a retraction?
Thank you for exposing these LIER'S... Shalom nakama
You're the LIARS.
@@richardholmes7199 no, you and Joseph are what you falsely accuse PG of, he only offered a thank you for the information unfiltered. The truth will set you free from the lies.
@@rickhuntling7338 You're the ones who accuse others of who you are.
@@richardholmes7199 guys like you are great for the true Body of CHRIST, thank you for being the way you are. You must have guided hundreds away in the right direction.
✝❤
@@rickhuntling7338 Actually his understanding is correct. It is you who have been tricked by the above video. You have been lead by smoke and mirror's to see the wrong context of how the book of Abraham was translated. It has nothing what so ever to do with what you've been lead to think. And, I can prove this fact to the point you'll not be able to come back on me. Yes, you'll suppose that I'm the one deceaved here? But no it's yourself. I guarantee you that you'll have no possible debate once I show you how you've been tricked by videos like the one above. Click UA-cam video titled "Book of Abraham part 8" and Abraham part 9 which proves this matter by math and pure science not random chance.
LOL
keep trying !
Mr Cooper you’re not being very fair minded in your analysis you’re just trying to prove a point that you’ve predetermined. Case in point you mentioned that there is evidence of child sacrifice or human sacrifice amongst the Egyptian‘s which is true but you said it wasn’t very prevalent. Well we don’t know how prevalent it was really, what we do have is evidence there was human sacrifice so that seems to indicate the truthfulness of the book of Abraham not a fraudulent nature
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) you tube''.
I have already informed Mr Cooper that Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist info presented on this above video. Mr Cooper, just like all other anti-Mormons, just ignores it.
LOL,
nonsense.
but, keep trying.
news flash ... the church of jesus is founded on apostles and prophets,
with jesus the corner stone.
there is only ONE church today the have apostles and prophets.
the church of jesus christ, of latter-day saints.
period.
News flash...the Jesus of Mormonism was a man who had to work his way to Godhood
@@richarner3856
news flash ... idiotic nonsense.
the church of jesus christ of latter-days saint teach jesus is the god of this universe,
and has never taught the moronic dribble you just posted.
"Scholars can now" smh, Egyptologly has changed so drastically in the last 4 years, anyone declaring anything about Egypt should be careful to speak. There are so many problems with your arguments, that are so obvious they aren't even worth addressing. What is worth addressing is the financial incentive of eliminating the competition to earn more money with more sheeple just like a business $$$. How much more money will you make getting people to come and pay to your church by saying the competition's church is wrong?? How much $$ do Mormon preachers get paid = 0.
Sure... but we can read ancient Egyptian. It's not like you can fundamentally change that.
The Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ua-cam.com/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/v-deo.html and also this video likewiseua-cam.com/video/qQkeXB4qisg/v-deo.html
@@richarddick2955 the highest order in the lds church get paid so you’re wrong hahahaha
A lot of the things you are saying are untrue and it’s because you’re biased.
1.Mormons prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain.
2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent.
3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ .
4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so.
5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage.
6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978.
7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse.
8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false.
ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
@Fish4Hire your baseless false accusation is obviously your bias and willingness to defame another person.
Here is a short version of the argument: if this is true and this is true and this is true and this is true then the Book of Abraham must be false.
Joseph Smith could be completely wrong about the lion couch scene, and still be a prophet of God, having received the Book of Abraham by revelation. He never claimed to translate the Lion Couch fascimile. He only explained it, and his explanation was his opinion.
This doesn't ad up for two reasons I can call right off the bat. 1) Joseph said himself he was translating. If this was what God used to spark a revelation Joseph would have been well aware and would have made this claim himself, most likely also being able to state what the papyrus actually was. 2) When the papyrus was found in a museum there were also notes with his handwriting that had the Egyptian characters with what his meaning of each one meant. You can find these online. Each character had sentences to paragraphs written right next to them that match up with the first number of verses in the Book of Abraham. Since people who study Egyptian can now read the characters after Rosetta Stone, they know his 'translation' of each character was false. This only leads to show that Joseph was attempting to correlate his book with the characters as an attempt to further persuade the believers that he was a true prophet as he would have seemed to have 'cracked' a lost language, when in reality he was conning them and the evidence shows this very clearly.
Plus if this is his 'opinion' of a factual text he is wrong again.
@@morningstoke Actually you are referring to the KEP, the majority of which aren't in Joseph's handwritting and include non-Egyptian characters. Skeptics want us to believe that these are translation notes, because their case completely crumbles if they aren't.
@@robertrosskopf4641 ok, being part of the KEP doesn't at all disprove my points. Joseph used scribes when he was supposedly translating the Book of Mormon so it would make sense that he used scribes with the Book of Abraham. I may be wrong about it being his handwriting, however even if it is not his handwriting the evidence is still there even if he had used a scribe. The characters are still on paper with mis-translated sections right next to them. This only would have happened with Joseph trying to translate with what he would have claimed to be prophetic authority. I doubt he would have let someone else do the supposed translating without him, allowing him to still be the pupetteer of the story and in turn continue misleading the followers.
Nonsense....86% of the Book of Abraham are KJV Genesis accounts. If the Book of Abraham is ancient, why did he translate it into 17th century translations. I guess Abraham knew and wrote in the lexicon and syntax of Middle English. I am amazed Mormons actually fall for this shit
@@Doc-Pleroma-naut Same dude, it's blatantly obvious
How can something occur a thousand years before the birth of a fictional character?
this video is calk full of false assumptions. WE NOTE THESE TYPES OF GUYS WILL NEVER NEVER DEBATE LDS SCHOLARS PUBLICALLY. Why because there is a mountain of evidence which proves the Book of Abraham is a true book. Anyone want to pick up the challenge?
Guess no one wants to find out the truth.
@@michaelparks5669 Go check out Robert Ritner's stuff
Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists by presenting proper interpretation, are you going to publish a retraction to account for this?
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) you tube''. A video that DEBUNKS your DISHONEST VIDEO.
Im not sure mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Also known as mental gymnastics for Mormons
At least five times within five minutes I've heard the practice of sacrifice in this matter inside ancient Egypt. In the book of Abraham the sacrifice as it's alluded to, didn't occur in Egypt occurred in Northern Syria or Southern turkey. Where Abraham was known to have lived. Why are you mentioning inside of Egypt.??? And I'm just trying to look at this from a neutral point of view. Not only that, there are three different versions of the name elkanah in the worshiping practices of Assyria turkey area. And they date from 1000 to 6000 BC.
In 5 minutes I found two major flaws in the arguments. Plus, I'd like to add that it was never directly asserted that the book was a direct translation from the papyrus, as much as it was inspired bye the papyrus.
Just so that you are aware, Egypt did have a lot of trade and influence in the area of Northern Syria and turkey area for quite a time in the millennias BC. It even goes back to before it was known as Egypt. And the country was known as Khem. And that word is a much more ancient group that goes as far as India in its origin and may even have connection with the Mayans.
I do agree that his additions to the blank portions of the image may have been erroneous. However it is known that the priest performing this function as a normal course of the ritual, is a priest with no hair that is wearing a headdress. As was custom in their practices, during reenactments.
Somewhat akin to the fact that Jews in Israel used to have a ritual they were performing that they had knowledge that a part of the ritual was missing from their practice. What is unique was that they found this ritual was being performed as a complete ritual, including the missing part, by the Cheyenne American Indians. They have even granted a land deed to the Cheyenne tribe because of this connection. Another unique thing between Hebrews and American Indians, they're all Redskins. If you've ever met someone who is Jewish but did not have their Jenny ology filtered through Europe, you will find them all to be Redskins. Or more accurately the color of Jasper. A brownish-red.
I will agree with you that these second or third hand accounts of the Papyrus just suddenly disappearing through mishandling, is a stupid argument. So stupid that they actually create more issues by even repeating such bullshit then just by keeping silent on the matter. But like every other Church, the LDS church has its share of idiots as well.
I've actually had disagreements with them several times over who the first man was. They still claim it to be atom of the second chapter of Genesis. And go where in the scripture does it say Adam is the first man. It actually indicates that there was first the Ha-Adam, and then came Adam in the second chapter. He is the first man-made directly by the hand of the Creator God. If you recall the text it states that Mana General, the Ha-Adam, was made by the Elohim. And that literally translates to Gods. And there is a lot of ancient texts that refer to the Council of Gods. The Sumerians even talk about them as the Anunnaki.
Have the other Shaylee an argument that's actually posited here. Is the lack of any historical reference to any book written directly by Abraham. I'm sure that there may have been one. But it certainly didn't last very long, if there was. That would not mean however that people weren't aware of his teaching or sayings. It wasn't until the dynastic. That we currently recognize of Egypt did there a Schism arise between the Semitic peoples of Israel and the Eastern protectorate of the Egyptian lamps, tithead Trucking down to the area of Upper and Lower Egypt as well as the Saudi Arabian Peninsula. No longer as far north as Assyria, even by influence but possibly by trade. So the idea that they would understood teachings of these people because they were so heavily linked for so long especially in pre-dynastic times oh, and the Egyptians at one time may have kept some records. But we know that we've lost the vast majority of those. Because you can't just write stuff down and leave it laying around and it stick around. It has to be protected in some way shape or form. Perhaps that is why it was someone raised and educated to the highest levels in Egypt that first became their first major prophet, in the form of Moses. Whose record of birth in the Bible exactly coincides with the birth of Tuthmosis II I believe. That he was found in the bulrushes in a basket on the Nile. It is an Egyptian / Jewish story. And is why Tut Moses the second is thought to have been Moses. Because Tut Moses disappears about the time Moses appears as the deliverer. So yes there are things in the book of Abraham that cannot be explained as to the knowledge of names that nobody but Joseph Smith came up with it the time but our names that have been found in the area of where ER is proposed to have been. But then there's also issues in following Direct evidentiary Trail.
I did enjoy the presentation, but as I said your argument that elkanah does not exist in Egypt is correct the problem is is he does exist in the area of her. So I don't know what your point is but you're wrong on that issue. Overall a good video.
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS first of all I didn't know you were buddies with Jehovah which oh, I'm sorry was not his name. That is a conglomeration of letters put into the King James version which does not match the original writings. But we'll play along with that for now. I believe you're talking about the book of Abraham. Which does have some interesting information in it but will also set that aside for now. My comment was that translation in general is an inspired act because you cannot translate from one language to another write it down word for word and understand it. It has to be tweet so that the next language is translated into is understandable. It's why there's understandable errors in the King James Bible because it's translated from Latin which was translated from Greek. There's errors in the King James Bible in the Old Testament because it was translated from Latin which was translated from Hebrew at the very least. And the Hebrew had been translated from the old Hebrew to the post 6th Century BC Hebrew. That's why you have italicized words of the King James Bible because they are inserted so that it makes it more understandable. And as the language changes, like English has in the last four hundred years less and less people understand proper English and the Bible has been translated into easily over a thousand different versions of colloquial in English where you don't understand almost anything about what it's trying to say. So when somebody does say they translated. It doesn't say that they transliterated. A transliteration is a word for word transmission.
For example, John 1:1. It takes a 20-page explanation as to why that is a very lame translation of what the original Greek was because it would have taken up a full chapter to explain John 1:1 in Greek 2 John 1:1 in English. That's why almost no one understands it when it's spoken in English because it's very simplistic. They don't understand the Greek thought pattern that went into that verse.
All of this said, the other issue that I have personally is a people who don't believe the book are constantly trying to say that it's something evil that it is leading people astray. When it does no such thing. What do you believe that book or not it has nothing to do with the primary doctrine of either the LDS church or it almost all other Christian doctrine based religions that you come unto God by following the teachings of his son Yeshua Cristo.
God the Father gave man free agency to worship Him by the precepts and understandings of his own spirit. Some people have a greater understanding some people have a very simplistic understanding yet they both follow the teachings of Christ to the best of their ability. Going out of your way to attack other Christians is not something that Yeshua ever taught anybody. The only people he had a hard time with was the Sadducees and Pharisees. Even though he was oh a Priestly order it wasn't one of those two and there were only three and Israel at the time. He didn't care for them because they were engaging in Tradition without understanding the true nature of the scriptures they were following in actions only but not in their heart.
If you aren't advancing in your understanding, and you plateau at that. You will start slipping back. This is an eternal Progressive Act. It is why I read the Apocrypha because it is very informative for understanding Father scripture. Enoch for example is a great help in understanding the foundations under which much of the Bible is written. And it does give you a better understanding of the actual timeline because the Bible isn't necessarily in a linear timeline. The reason many of the books of the Bible are quite vague is because they're unimportant to your ultimate goal I'll be coming at one with God.
The other thing that you failed to realize is that there were scriptures written down before Moses ever took a breath. There are at least two or three of them in India that predate the Bible there was after Moses both Buddhist and Zoroaster, and long before Moses they were the Sumerians who had written about the same group of gods that show up in all of these texts. only in the Sumerians they were called the Anunnaki and by the time they got to the Bible they were called the Elohim. Elohim is not a singular God or it wouldn't be a pluralistic word. When you translate the word Elohim into English it means Gods. There is more than one God, and most other scriptures of the time and believe me God was the god over all of these groups otherwise he wouldn't be the one true God and he leads a Cadre of other gods in all of these other scriptures and they number a total of 9 in most of the iterations. It is why in Genesis 1 Baystate let us make man in our image. It wasn't a singular God saying I shall make man in my image. The singular God concept has nothing to do with the number of God's there are. It has everything to do with the fact that we only answer to one of them. Even in the first commandment God states that there's more than one God because he says have no other God before me. He then goes on to State also don't make images and bow down before them and make false gods. He didn't say I am the only God there is so pay attention to me because all others are false. He said have no other God before me. He didn't even say you couldn't read your understanding that there were other gods. He just said do not worship them before you worship Him.
So if you're Christian, quit backbiting other Christians just because they believe in a few things differently than you do. We're all in the same boat here. And we have far greater enemies than each other.
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS so what was the first five books of the Bible? And those are only five of the 13 that Moses wrote According to Hebrew records. Was he aspired to do that along with the position he found himself in or put himself in? And what causes you to ask questions when you already claim to know the answers.
Study the information and prove it wrong. Don't just feel it's wrong and state that it is false to start with. Look at things from multiple paradigms. They will speak to you in different ways. Don't be so myopic. You might be surprised of what you may learn
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS I'm sorry, but the J was not added to the Latin language to be pronounced as a soft G. Only the English you're stupid enough to change the pronunciation of the term because they hated the Romans so much. The J was added to the language to differentiate the Y sound from a consonant from the Y sound when it is a vowel. It is not pronounce Jehovah with a saw G it is not pronounced Joshua with a soft G it is Yeshua. Yeshua is the Hebrew, Aramaic name for Jesus as well as the commander of the armies under Moses. And it's still pronounced that way even if you add the J at the beginning. Jay was a Latin invention that was done during or just after the second iteration of the King James Bible. The first of the King James Bibles didn't even have the letter j in them. It is a made-up letter in Latin and it's pronounced as the Y sound. You're mistaking pronunciation with spelling.
I realize this is a poor venue for a conversation, but you're one of the more well-read people I brought a crossed in a while. And far less caustic than most. Who get really upset when you challenge them to do better. And I've always up for a good challenge, I've been studying since I was eight. That's almost 56 years now, and yes I do feel a little tired at times. And this virus did not help my energy levels.
The Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ua-cam.com/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/v-deo.html and also this video likewiseua-cam.com/video/qQkeXB4qisg/v-deo.html
ANTI mORMONS ARE barking up the wrong tree by trying to argue with John Gee. Dr Gee obviously didn't pay attention to what the Book of Abraham declared any more than you nor Mr. Osborne. We have been carefully watching Paul Gregesens video part 15. Paul has clearly demonstrated from the text itself what all of you obviously missed. In his new video he points out where Abraham was commanded to teach the Egyptians about a Hebrew astronomy ALONE! It says right in the text why the astronomy itself was nothing but an object lesson to teach the Egyptians about Abrahams family which was Israel. In other words, nothing in the entire Book of Abraham was claiming Egyptian anything unless it was counterfeiting Noah. Chapter one clearly says anything Egyptian was pure Idolatry! WHY DO YOU GUYS, ALONG WITH DR. GEE, AND OTHERS IGNORE THIS TEXTUAL FACT?
What this means is this, trying to show discrepancies about Joseph Smith getting anything Egyptian wrong is ridiculous and a complete waist of everyone's time! The text clearly says God told Abraham to teach about Abrahams posterity ALONE!.
Cant any of you guys read? watch Gregersen's newest video through, its right in front of your face!
Joseph Smith said he only added the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham in order to demonstrate how false gods are fashioned. "Abraham 1:14" Egyptians counterfeiting Gospel truths in order to alter everyone's true understanding. See Abraham chapter one. In other words all Smith was doing is reversing what the Egyptians counterfeited and got wrong back into what God intended. God told him to only teach the Egyptians about his seed which is Israel.
Trying to find parallels to Abraham in order to prove how Smith knew nothing about Egyptian by digging up copied similar sources is simply pure speculation without any real evidence. Harold Bloom the famous Jewish Scholar said it was an impossibility that Smith could have copied names and places that were discovered in the dead sea scrolls over a hundred years later. likewise Oleshem is documented name today that no living scholar knew of in 1840. The Book of the giants discovered in the dead sea scrolls document that Smith knew of many things in the Book of Enoch that no man on earth had yet discovered until the dead sea scrolls.
The critics all ignore these real LIVING facts.
The story about Ahijah is only one of many impossibilities that not only identified an exact characters ancient name but even described the very role he played in Enoch's life story. Joseph Smith obviously wasn't just making things up just because Osborne spends years of his life searching for any long shot similarity that he can discover just so he can call it a perfect match! All yellow journalists do that same thing everyday and always call it truth. Gregersen has connected the real Abraham story by contrasting the Egyptian falsehoods with Hebrew outcomes using exact mathematical connections that cannot be shown to be manipulated. He has demonstrated it to correlate the very same matched history as we see in Daniel chapter two and in Revelation 13:18. The same 666 combines into two separate timelines without a heart beat of deceptive ways to achieve it. GREGERSEN HAS DESTROYED DAN VOGELS THEORIES BY DEMONSTRATING EXACTLY WHY THEIR HAD TO BE A LONG SCROLL.
Go to evidences of The Book of Mormon. Much better than this
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) you tube''. A video debunking the above video from Jordan Cooper. Jordan Cooper ignores this.
WHEN are you going to update your FALSE PRESENTATION video?
The arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith were debunked by Paul Gregersen. Are you going to publish a retraction to account for this?
The egyptologists were proven wrong. Proven wrong due to their assumption Joseph Smith, in order to translate correctly, was supposed to render a translation concurring with the one from that of the egyptological field. The assumption Joseph Smith's translation/revelation was supposed to concur is the assumption proving the egyptologists and yourself wrong, in other words.
1.Mormons prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain.
2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent.
3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ .
4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so.
5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage.
6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978.
7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse.
8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false.
ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
@@Mygoalwogel Why did you send me a bigoted comment?
@@richardholmes7199 LOL he is quoting our living prophets so he is a bigot? Quite the opposite, the LDS corporation were bigots when it came to people of color and their so called priesthood, marriage and positions of authority in your antichrist cult.
@@richardholmes7199 Seriously? YOU saying anyone else is a bigot. You someone who lies about someone whos Son has cancer saying he is trying to kill you?
You’re a idiot
Google Paul Gregersen Book of Abraham pt 14 you tube. A video that demolishes the above dishonest video.
Blah blah...say what you want the LDS faith still rolls forward like the stone cut from the mountain without hands...still rolling, still performing saving ordinances , still preaching the everlasting gospel, still building mind numbingly beautiful temples, still adding to the 2.2billion dollar charity work performed since 1985 & millions more before, still putting God & family first, still paying our tithes, still obeying the 10 commandments ..Yeah people get the point !... you & your meaningless propaganda cannot stop the Lord's work from rolling forward , that's right this is his church, his doctrine & his people nothing you halfway Christians can ever say or do will change that...REPENT now & join the fold..you got nothing to lose & eternal life to gain. ..
Yep, and Islam, which is MUCH bigger than Mormonism, continues to prosper as well, despite everything we know about it. Same with Scientology, Catholicism, and Jehovah’s witnesses. As long as there’s gullible people like you, cults and false religions will always thrive. That’s as old as humanity and has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the truth.
Lindsey Mays typical you leave out all the positives cos it doesn’t suit your tired old irreligious narrative... stand for something or don’t stand at all
Your a Work Base Religion created by a False Prophet.
I will worship the true God and Christ of the Bible
You break the fourth commandment ever week
You do works for the Dead which is Necromancy an abomination to God
Deuteronomy 18
Come to the real Jesus before it's too late
Christ is the Arthedos
One by the name of Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologists in 2014 by demonstrating that the translation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to match up with that of the Egyptological take on translation.
@veritas. According to the Gospel
We are not Saved by Works.
We all far short of the Law We are all sinners according to God
How can a Church that preaches Works
Be of God ?
From your comment your boasting about your works. God says our works are filthy rags to Him
Another words our Works of the Law can't Save Us
God doesn't need our Works, He's God
I believe God. You should learn, that you won't get to Heaven Being Prideful
There is only God not Works
Peace Brother you have a long ways to go
I will pray for you veritas
When are you going to have the human decency to admit the Egyptologists were debunked?
Citation needed
@@krissander1 A citation?
@@krissander1 He is pushing the known fraud Paul Gregersen. Paul is someone from the lower end of the spectrum liek Richard is, who pretends he can read Hebrew, Egyptian and Greek while showing he cant handle simple English. Paul has made several statements that show how delusional he is among them is one wherein he claimed the Apostle John Came to him and personally taught him about the Book of Abraham. Richard appears to be Paul's biggest and promoter, there are a few others, but most turn out to be Paul Gregersen creating other accounts in an effort to promote his channel.
Richard is quite interesting, he claims he has an angelic being (whom Richard claims is the "Dark Angel") that comes to him and talks to him and confirms his Mormon Beliefs. He has also gone on to say some of the wildest claims such as that Utah Light and Power built Hunter Power plant in an effort to somehow kill Richard. He has also made other claims such as everyone from states with an "oh" sound (Ohio, Idaho, etc.) are all out to get him. he has had some interactions with Utah law Enforcement mainly for harassing others.
The hostile Egyptological/anti-Mormon christian crap presented on your above anti-Mormon christian video was DEBUNKED due to you all assuming that Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian sensen text papyri was supposed to match up with the translation from that of the Egyptological field, WHEN are you going to have the human decency to update your anti-Mormon christian youtube video to account for this?
It's not either a fraudulent text. My comments below should speak clearly on this.
You sound hysterical dude. Lol maybe you should spam a few more of the same post just for good measure?
@@ChaChaDancin Hysterical? You're the one's saying Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the same way an Egyptologist would. This would have to mean LDS (Mormon) needs to match up with Egyptian characters in order to be translated correctly. Are you all hysterical enough to believe this assumption?
@@richardholmes7199 no I didn’t say that. Joseph smith can translate in whatever magical Bible fan-fiction way he wants to. Lol. But if he isn’t going to translate the Egyptian writing on the scroll he bought, then he shouldn’t have said he did. Whoops.
@@ChaChaDancin ''no I didn't say that.'' Obviously you said that.
@@richardholmes7199 ok…
Quran is true 👍
we got another pedophile (Mohammad) started religion here!! 🤢🤢(worse than Joseph Smith)
if i grew up in whatever household, it just has to be that the religion i was born into has to be the truth!! Great logical thinking! Since I was born in a Islam household, Islam has to be the truth whether the one that started this religion is a sick pedophile (that 'married' a 6 year old girl) or not!!
🤦🏻♂🤦🏻♂
Muhammad was the Joseph Smith of the 7th century
The Quran was written by an illiterate pervert who thought that demons would get him if he used a latrine😂
The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014, when are you going to update your video to account for this?
The evidence for this scene
docs.google.com/document/d/1P1llnhvfouDJwhhGFoVBzXpf3-Feor1WHO-xWnHNVYg/edit
He should be holding a jar.
The standing figure is Anubis.
Actually the Rosetta stone had been unearthed by Napoleon's soldiers at that time and Champollion was actively deciphering it. However this was not widely known outside the scholarly community. (Just saying)
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.
Of course he did...every single one who ever existed or ever will exist
Paul Gregersen was also the first one to figure out that two different actors played Darren on Bewitched
@@richarner3856What is your purpose of being here?
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii to put food on the table...how about you?
@@richarner3856Defending my faith against pukes like you.
Actually the Rosetta stone had been unearthed by Napoleon's soldiers at that time and Champollion was actively deciphering it. However this was not widely known outside the scholarly community. (Just saying)
Actually the Rosetta stone had been unearthed by Napoleon's soldiers at that time and Champollion was actively deciphering it. However this was not widely known outside the scholarly community. (Just saying)