Ex-Mormon here. After 32 years of being a believing Mormon, I finally came to the same conclusions. Just took me a lot longer than y’all. Because, you know… indoctrination. Good video, you’ve spent a lot of time researching Mormonism and it shows.
Do you now consider yourself Christian? I know many Mormons become agnostic/atheist after leaving. My husband is exmo. He is now a Christian. Two of his siblings followed after we invited them to church with us. Sadly, his older brother, the most TBM, is now angry & atheist. It’s been almost 20 years.
It has been my observation that those who leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do so for one or more of the following reasons: 1. They think they are smarter than God and are easily "deceived by the craftiness of men," 2. Their hearts long to live in the great and spacious building (worldliness) rather than on the straight and narrow path and thus lose their faith. If not already there, they are scurrying in that direction, 3. They get their feelings hurt, and decide to take it out on God by separating themselves from Him and his church. 4. They forget Jesus' teaching, "In this life there will be tribulation."
This video is very well done. I am a mormon, one who studied my way out of the religion due to it's many inconsistencies and inability to verify it's truth claims. There are nuances that a lot of non-mormons don't catch when they do videos about mormonism, but Dr. Cooper did not have that issue at all. Good job!
@@jeffmclemore8274 first of all they are not magical. They are garments that symbolizes we have put on Christ. Second, Mormons will defend your beliefs before you defend theirs any day of the week.
It has been my observation that those who leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do so for one or more of the following reasons: 1. They think they are smarter than God and are easily "deceived by the craftiness of men," 2. Their hearts long to live in the great and spacious building (worldliness) rather than on the straight and narrow path and thus lose their faith. If not already there, they are scurrying in that direction, 3. They get their feelings hurt, and decide to take it out on God by separating themselves from Him and his church. 4. They forget Jesus' teaching, "In this life there will be tribulation."
I have a video request: the most important texts in christianity outside the Bible... such as Saint Athanasius The Incarnation... Augustined Confessions... The Divine Ladder etc
Much agreed! I'm "well read" for the average Christian, but I'd love to see what the thoughts are in a confessional Lutheran tradition. 👍 Always good to keep a list of books I need to read growing 😉
Thank you for this video! Excellent analysis. I began studying Mormonism and came to the same criticisms: Joseph Smith's character, The archeological evidence, The historic events, And primarily, the conflicting theology from their books in comparison to scripture.
Or....... you can weigh his claim of having his own personal face-to-face with God the Father against the scriptural truth that no man can see God and live. For a Believer, you don't need much more than that.
@@bobbycecere1037 The problem with that piece of logic is that it conflicts with the numerous biblical accounts of prophets seeing God face-to-face found in the Bible. If you actually read and studied the bible you would be well aware of that fact.
@@bobrussell8339 The fact that i'm well aware of is that there were no prophets who had a face to face a meeting with God. Not even one. After the fall it was impossible for any human being to stand in the presence of The father. That's basic biblical Exegesis and you should already know it. After the garden of eden every time scripture refers to God being in the presence of someone, He has a stand in representative. It's always one of his angels That are representing the almighty. No human can see god and live. Go read things.
Another difference between the biblical sinners and Joseph Smith is that the Bible calls out their sins, and the Book of Mormon doesn't for Smith. Often, as in the case of David, another, usually a prophet like Samuel or Nathan, rebukes them and calls them to repent. Who called Joseph Smith to repent?
Obviously, you've never read the 138 revelations from Jesus to Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. In these revelations the Lord calls Joseph to repentance several times. lol
@@joabthejavelin5119 Joseph Smith was a mortal, not a God. I'm sure you are acquainted with the biblical scripture that tells us "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." He had his frailties just as the prophets of the bible. Think of Moses killing an Egyptian, taking credit for providing water to the Israelites and being denied entrance into the promised land. Think of King David committing murder and adultery. Think of Samuel killing people. Think of Eli allowing his sons to commit adultery at the entry to the temple. Think of Peter denying Christ three times. Think of Paul arresting the saints and condoning the killing of Stephen. Think of Paul being falsely arrested and imprisoned several times just as Joseph was falsely arrested 44 times, but never convicted of anything in a court of law. Why is it you have no problem accepting biblical prophets with significant failings but expect a modern day prophet to be perfect. Isn't that hypocritical? Despite his frailties, Joseph Smith was personally called by God the Father and Jesus Christ to be the prophet of the "restitution of all things." Acts 3: 19-21. Where is your restitution of all things? These verses tell us that Christ isn't coming back until this restitution has taken place, and this is not new news. It was prophesied by "all the holy prophets since the world began." Read Amos 3:7 and ask yourself, "Where are the prophets called by God in my church since God only works through prophets he has called.
Dr. Cooper is so correct with his information. This is real history. Please read, Fawn Broadys book ( No man knows my history.) No archaeological support for the Book of Mormon, None.
Jonathan, Wayne May has discovered hundreds if not thousands of physical remains of the three different peoples of the Book of Mormon (the Jaradites, the Mulekites, and the Nephite nations), you can view his presentations on youtube. But most importantly, if you read the Book of Mormon with an open and honest mind, and ask God with faith in Jesus Christ, God will verify its validity. He has done this for me and millions of other honest seekers of Gods full truth.
@@garthliston7641 I was a LDS member until 21, when I returned from my mission. I read all church doctrine, including the KJV of the Bible. There is no historical proof of the book of mormon, in fact more proof against it. More proof Joseph Smith was a fraud, criminal and an ego maniac. Tricking yourself into belief that prayer is real because it makes you obtain answers is wrong, when I drink a beer I feel good does that mean god is the beer? no... Let us not even speak about the book of Abraham, fraud. Had this church been born in these times he would have been laughed out of the room.
Thank you for the video, Dr. Cooper. You give an excellent summary of historical and doctrinal differences between historic Christianity and the LDS faith. My cohost Paul and I are former Mormons who witness to questioning or former LDS to show them that they need not reject Christ altogether by leaving the LDS faith. I sent an email to you a while ago to ask if you were interested to have an interview with us. I think your knowledge and experience would be interesting to questioning/former Mormons who are considering where to go after they leave the faith and would like to know more about Lutheranism. Let us know if discussing these or other topics piques your interest. Thanks! - Matt
@@DrJordanBCooper Dr. Cooper, I left a reply to your message here with our email address but I don't know if it was manually or automatically deleted by UA-cam, but the comment is no longer there. We can schedule for an interview in April if that works for you? We are flexible. Thanks, Matt
For #2, it's not so much a lack of evidence, rather, I see the issue as that all the available evidence about the ancient Americas paints a totally different history than the Book of Mormon. The evidence is contrary, not lacking.
Moses acquired much of the law of Moses, from polytheistic sources. What’s your point about Joseph Smith in order for him to be a prophet does that mean he has to have completely original sources?
Smith and his encounters with angels. Through out the NT any encounter with an angel, people are scared and very fearful. Individuals can endure such an encounter due to the angel saying either.."Do not fear" or "Peace be with you." The guards at Jesus' tomb left their post and fled due to an angelic encounter with no "Peace be with you" or "Do not fear." The lack of dread or fear on the part Smith with his interaction with the angel Moroni, shows this is a false narrative.
O yeah dude, for sure, your idea of angels may be wrong, they look just like humans, anyways, if you read the book of mormon u would know none can fake up such a thing, even less if joseph where this bad person people are acusing he of
Whenever I think about Smith, Muhammad, Ellen G. White, or any of these false prophets, I'm reminded of this verse from Ecclesiasticus: "Say not thou, he hath caused me to err, for God has no need of sinful men." Following the teachings of some random sinner would actually be more advantageous than following these people. Who are not simply sinners, but even worse, sinners proclaiming themselves to be prophets speaking the word of God.
Ellen White's are in a league of their own. Read Desire of Ages and see for yourself. I have not found any writings that exalt Christ Jesus more or that leave the glory of man in the dust more than her writings.
They do share some commonalities, most conspicuously the fact that both religions were created by false prophets. However, I think it's more accurate to consider Mormonism as an indigenous form of Israelism-like the Black Hebrew Israelites, only with an inversion of the races.
At the time, people made that comparison as well. The life of Muhammad and Joseph Smith are very similar and both make historical claims that contradict the evidence.
@@GerardPerry Mohamed claimed to be a prophet Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet Muhammed claimed and angel told him to lead the restoration Joseph Smith claimed and angel told him to lead the restoration Muhammed composed the Quran he claimed was new revelation from God Joseph Smith composed the Book of Mormon he claimed was new revelation from God(later from Gods) Muhammed received new revelation whenever it was convenient for him Joseph Smith received new revelation whenever it was convenient for him Muhammed took on many wives Joseph Smith took on many wives
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 4 years and you are way off on this one. Mormons don't kill you if you leave the faith. We don't chop off body parts for crimes. We don't drown disobedient daughters in swimming pools. Women were championed for the vote and even to wear pants in the state of Utah long ago. When I was in Saudi Arabia I couldn't drive, I couldn't talk on the phone about religion, and I couldn't get a ride somewhere with a man who wasn't my husband, without running the risk of deportation. When I went shopping I would take my children for protection from being patted in inappropriate places by the shopkeepers. I had to cover up my clothing with a black bathrobe type outerwear and could not eat or drink during the day in public during Ramadan. Everything stopped during prayer call and you would be locked out of a business or locked inside. There were religious policemen who went around looking for people who were breaking religious observances. Muhammad was the last prophet and there are none after him. We still have a living prophet today. The LDS Church does not engage in terrorism and hate speech. To draw such a comparison is absolute naivety.
I left Mormonism for Presbyterianism. I joined them, received the aaronic priesthood, and went to stay at a mission training center. I didn't know about the crazy stuff until some older chap there started telling me that Adam was God, even though the younger folks believed that Adam was Michael. That, their denial of the perpetual virginity, and the historical revisionism are the reasons that I left them. They kept telling me not to look at Young, but Monson. Because even I saw the contradictions between them. I still don't drink tea, coffee, or caffeinated beverages. My views now that I'm older are somewhere between Catholic and Protestant. I believe in Theosis and the eternity of heterosexual monogamous marriage like the Orthodox Church does, which is based on St John Chrysostom's Letter to a Young Widow. I get my ideas about marriage from the writings of Josiah Trenham, John Meyendorff, and St John Chrysostom. My pastor said that outside of the marriage thingamajig that my views are closer to Anglicanism and Lutheranism than to Presbyterianism since I go to confession (at the United Methodist Church), believe in the perpetual virginity, believe in baptismal regeneration, and believe in real corporeal presence.
Luther was a man and like all men made mistakes. The two visible to me are antisemitic statements and Marionism. There may have been mitigating circumstances for Luther being against Jews. The Bible does not say that Mary remained a virgin, was sinless or that she did not die. All are later inventions. The invented logics that Mary was sinless is that she had to be sinless to be able to give birth to a sinless Son. Just one generation? Wouldn't her mother have to be without sin for the same reason? Logically that would have to go all the way back to Eve. Eve was the first human to sin. If Mary were not the mother of God the things the Bible says about her would be taken as clear that she had at least 6 children after Jesus. We know the names of 4 sons and there were at least two daughters. The idea that they were Joseph's children by a previous marriage and that he was too old to be sexually interested in Mary does not hold up. Joseph was able to travel from Nazareth to Jerusalem and back when Jesus was 12. You admit that you got your notion of eternal marriage from men. Well its unbiblical. In Mathew 20 the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus ask Him which of 7 brothers a woman had been married to in life she would be married to in heaven. Jesus after rebuking them for not knowing from Scripture tells them that there will be no giving or taking in marriage, that we will be like the angels.
@@bradenglass4753 The word heresy is too strong. Heresy is false doctrine that affects salvation such as Unitarianism. The false belief that marriage is eternal does not keep someone from being saved. But if someone believes one false doctrine they usually believe more.
What about the claim of being the restored church? There is nothing that I have learned about the Mormon religion that fits early Christianity or anything in either the old or New Testament. So what did they restore?!?
@@fantasia55 There are five Solas, with Sola Scriptura one of them. You can easily find issues and problems in any church. This is a fallen world! But you can test their doctrines against the Bible. Textual criticism shows we have a Bible that has been handed down pretty reliably. But this is not the issue at hand. Finding problems in a different religion does not take away issues in Mormonism. That is an informal fallacy. Mormonism needs to be tested on its own. Compare the temples of Mormonism and the temple of Jerusalem - are there any similarities in purpose, in what goes on, etc… why so many, when The God of the Bible had only one? Or give Mormonism the basic world view test of origin, what is wrong with the world and us, how is it fixed and what is our destiny? Look at how Mormonism answer these questions and then check if they fit with the Bible. The Bible is the story of creation (origin), fall (what is wrong), redemption ( Christ death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sin), and consummation (ultimate glory for those who believe in Jesus Christ). When I look at Mormonism, I don’t find internal consistency and I don’t find that it is based on what the Bible says.
@@johnsax1445 LDS members will proudly tell you that they don't disown those who leave. They just show a condescending "abundance of love" for family members and apostates, praying for them to return to the true faith. Christianity isn't much different.
I had a conversation with some Mormon missionaries recently about why I objected to Mormonism and I cited their doctrine of Christ and how it differed from the Gospel, but I don't think I gave them a very cogent response.
Gerard, I commend you giving an answer. I do not know what to said, but I suspect it was more cogent than you think. Back in December I talked with a couple of their boys here. I felt, at first, pretty GOOD about what I said 😏 and they ended up still saying we were a lot alike in our beliefs. Um...where did I go wrong?
@@DrMJS Those missionaries may have been taught to find mutual beliefs between you & their organization. Then they can use your similar beliefs, terms, favorite words to show you how your & their beliefs are …. either pretty much all wrong, or they’ve built a good foundation for you to enter right on into Mormonism. 😉 Some get so focused on their mission & to convert that they won’t seem to even hear you. And truly, many aren’t trying to; they’re just doing as they’ve been taught they must for their missions to be deemed successful. But, I think any interaction causing them to reassess or later deconstruct their beliefs is a good thing!
This comes a little bit old, but can I ask you what a coach response is? I’m a member of the church of Jesus Christ of the Saints and I’ve heard some very intelligent Christians. Try to explain your idea of the Godhead. I’m not sure there is a cogent response. it doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense. I could explain an LDS idea of the godhead to a five-year-old would have no problem understanding it
@@DrJordanBCooper A few thouroughly explained reasons are usually more helpful than many that are merely mentioned, so I think this is the way to go. And 10 hours. We would like 10 hours.
@@Ajsirb24 I cannot speak for the church as a whole. But my view has been yes. They twist the idea of the Trinity and make Christ out to be a creation of God the Father. Both of these things strips Christ of his true redeeming act of dying on the cross to remove our sin. They say they believe in Jesus Christ. But it is a different Jesus than the Lutheran/Christian church confesses.
@@jacobharding5301 I 100% agree with you. Do you teach your students about the "last days" or "end of days" as well? If so, which view do you consider to be the most consistent with scripture? My view and interpretation might be drastically different than yours.
Let me tell you what happened to me when I converted to the Mormon church from a Protestant church in 1965. I was bombarded with anti-Mormon materials, and I became fascinated with all religions. In a lifetime of studying other religions and atheism I can tell you what happens if you follow the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is what the anti-church people are warning you about! They are saying that if you follow the church, you will not have as good as life as if you avoid it . So here I am, many decades later. I have lived what the church teaches and I have seen a multitude of other people do the same thing. The ones who have done what the church urges us to do, have had the best life They could have had. Of course that doesn’t mean that there weren’t tragedies and trials. There always is. But the church teachings have always made the good times better and the bad times easier to heal. Anytime I have heard critics of the church complain about the church, It’s because someone in the church was not following the churches teaching correctly, or the person complaining was not following the churches teaching. Critics of the church frequently become atheist because no other religion passes the tests that they tried to put on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What you should ask yourself is What religion will bring me the most happiness and the best life here on earth and here after. If you were wavering and standing on the edge of joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you might wonder “What will I be thinking about this decision 50 years from now? I wish I could see myself in the future.” Well, as a time traveler.(meaning that I was in that position in 1965, and I have lived all these decades to the present day) I can tell you from personal experience that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has made my life the best and most fulfilling experience possible. And I have never met anyone who has followed the churches actual teachings who has not had the same positive experiences. I have been studying anti-church materials for longer than most of the anti-church UA-camrs have been alive. My loyalty is to Jesus Christ, not to any church. I would have left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in a heartbeat to protect my family. And yet in spite of all the anti-church materials I’ve studied, I am 100% convinced there’s not a better religion on the Earth. If you are looking at the church, and wonder about all of the anti-people against the church, reach out to me and let me answer your questions. You will someday be my age and be able to look back and see clearly. Take advantage of my journey from the past and ask me. Scott Marshall Memphisbpc@aol.com.
Very interesting video! I just finished it. I would love to have you on to discuss it. I am an Evangelical but my audience is primarily LDS. I've been watching your channel for a few years and I really enjoy your perspective.
In your research on Mormonism, did you consult any sources provided by Jerald and Sandra Tanner? If so, what books or resources provided by them did you consult
I found the Book of Abraham the most challenging problem. John Gee was arguing the missing papyi of the BOA theory. Kerry Muhlestein seems to be arguing the Book of Abraham came by revelation. Smith produced interpretations of the Facsimiles 1 2 and 3 which are contrary to what Egyptologists claim.
JS purhased and interpreted the paparyi. The church has recovered the paparyi and claims its authentic. Still no such thing as reformed Eqyptian though.
8:00. There is a beautiful temple in Independence, MO - it was built by the Community of Christ (RLDS) temple in 2001. It has a shell spiral to the heavens, is open to all, and prays daily for peace.
I haven't visited that Temple yet I'm going to make sure that I visit there sometime. I attend the Saint Michael's Episcopal Church in Independence Missouri most Sundays. I used to go to the oak Grove rlds Church when I was growing up as a kid sometimes and I also went to the St Michael's Episcopal Church sometimes back then as well.
With some flaws, this is well done and objectively done video. I recently left Mormonism having deeply studying the Religion with their basics. There is too many inconsistencies with the Mormon Church. Many including Mormon Apostles don't know that Early Mormon Apostles and Prophets taught Progression withing Glories of Heaven, Multiple Mortal Probations, and a few even taught that Joseph Smith was/is the Holy Ghost. Now they teach these are heresies. Too many inconsistencies. Too many heresies. If you even seek to know anything negative, you are shunned. Once I wanted to learn both the good with the bad, then I was shunned. That's where I started piecing everything together that Mormonism is wrong.
Is it your expectation that Mormonism be perfect from day one when Joseph restored the church? Is it possible that religious ideas might evolve as we learn. The current apostles and prophets don’t agree on everything.
@@Coastal1931 I didn't say Mormonism be perfect but consistent. To change doctrine because another prophet doesn't like something shows the world, Mormonism does not have a strong foundation.
Looking forward to a Jehovah's Witnesses video. I'd assume it would focus on Arianism, failed prophecy and general cult behavior. Popular refutations of the watch tower are always needed.
An excellent presentation on the basics of the LDS religion. Perhaps you can get into why the Aaronic and Melchizadek.priesthoods that they rely on are invaid based on Heb 7 and other passages. Thanks!
Dr. Jordan B Cooper ...HOW do YOU reconcile this -->> (Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:33) He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people. .....ARE YOU fulfilling this prohecy?
1. Mormon prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain. 2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent. 3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ . 4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so. 5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage. 6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978. 7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse: _"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, _*_as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome,_*_ that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause _*_A SKIN OF BLACKNESS_*_ to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: _*_'I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people,_*_ save they shall repent of their iniquities. _*_And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;_*_ for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.'”_ 8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false. ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
Satan called Joseph Smith. In fact, he was anointed by demons impersonating the dead. Everyone is known for evil or good. Joseph Smith's evil surpassed most people's. He was into sex trafficking, stealing money from people, endless lying, etc.
A bit off topic, but related to one of the verses you read...what are your thoughts on Isaiah 45:7 (the Lord who creates calamity/evil)? Seems a bit odd contrasted with Jesus' saying in Matthew 7:17-18 that "a tree was known by its fruit; a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit." The Lutheran Study Bible indicates that aspect of God as "the hidden God" (Deus absconditus) and permitting calamity through various things, but the word is create. Is it less about creating "moral evil" and more about punishing disobedience?
Although my step-father, decidedly the head of the household, was Lutheran (but also, alas, Freemason), my mother was the daughter of a man (my maternal grandfather) who was a much-married L.D.S. Mormon. He had twenty-two wives, all duly marriaed to him. Only one of them left his (the third, was was abusing his children, namely my mother Emma, who was named after Joseph Smith's first and only legitimate wife, and his son, my Uncle Tommy), which he finally resolved by letting the evil stepmother leave him. All of the other 21 wives remained in marriage to him, but drifted apart from him mostely due to his alcoholic binges. My mother lured my step-farther back into Mormonism and had a very low view of Protestantism, due to the stepmother who was so cruel and downright crazed, which her Baptist ravings only made worse. Polygamy caused my mother and uncle to have horrendous childhoods, amost Dickensian in the level of abuse that they sustained.
Smith’s Golden Bible, Book of Mormon, had gold pages. Do you know how much that would weigh? And it is written in Egyptian symbols? There is a story that Smith ran from thieves with this golden document and he is 15 years old. Could this book weigh 600 lbs.?
The plates weighed about 60 lbs. No one said they were made of pure gold. They were likely an alloy that "had the appearance of gold." He was 21 years old when he obtained the plates. Joseph was 6 feet tall and very powerful--no one ever beat him at strength contests, so running with 60 lbs was very doable. You really ought to get your facts straight before exposing your ignorance for all to see.
@@bobrussell8339 There is no reference to “60 lbs” in existence. Which Mormon book says this? Furthermore, even steel plates, are heavy. Furthermore, if the BOM were presented in English on steel plates, you are talking about 150-300 pages of them. And it wasnt presented in English. It would require 1,000 pages of steel plates using picture hieroglyphs. This weighs more than 60 lbs. I challenge you to run away from pursuers with only 45 lbs--an Olympic plate at the gym.
@@timberrr1126 What's with this hilarious obsession with making endless calculations based on unknown variables. The text of the Book of Mormon tells us the plates were written in some kind of shorthand described as "reformed Egyptian" because Hebrew, the language they spoke, was too cumbersome to scratch into metal. Since no one has an example of reformed Egyptian, the amount of space it would take is an unknown variable. One thing we do know is that only 1/3 of the plates were translated. The remainder were sealed. Here is a link to an article written by some academics in 2010 from which I get my information. It includes weight estimates from Martin Harris, one of the three witnesses and William Smith, a younger brother of Joseph Smith.
@@timberrr1126 "There is no reference to “60 lbs” in existence"??? You're the first mortal I've encountered with omniscience. Congratulations! What is with your hilarious obsession with making calculations based on unknown variables. Not even Einstein was able to do that. The plates were engraved with some kind of shorthand that the original abridgers called "reformed Egyptian" a currently unknown form of writing. The translation process was not the normal process of a person who knows two languages choosing the English words. It was a revelatory process wherein the Urim and Thummim (as a bible scholar I'm sure you are aware of that instrument as it is reference several times in the bible) and the Holy Spirit chose the English words. Joseph didn't even look at the plates when he was translating. He looked into the Urim and Thummim. I concede the challenge to "run away from pursuers with only 45 lbs." I'm 81 years old, 5' 6" and haven't done any running for a couple of decades. Here is a link citing several academics about the size and weight of the gold plates: www.deseret.com/2010/7/7/20382906/how-gold-were-the-golden-plates#:~:text=It%20shouldn't%20be%20a,said%20%22about%20sixty%20pounds.%22
@@bobrussell8339 A hieroglyphic picture requires a size so that it can be read. If it is the same as 8 point type, it cannot be read. Therefore if it is 3x larger--it can be read. But this enlargement requires the Book of Mormon to be huge and heavy. Heavy because the plates aren’t paper they are metal. Then the next matter is the nature of Egyptian Hieroglyphs, each on represents an English letter when translated. So now you need 7-8 pictures to equal one word. So, hieroglyphs expand the original size of the BOM. Are there any hieroglyphs on the walls of Egyptian tombs/rooms , jewelry where the glyphs are 8 pt in size? No there isnt. They seem to be far larger like 48 point high or inches high. “Reformed” means the symbols were different. There is a point where common sense has to be used. The BOM that Joseph Smith had was never inspected fully. Perhaps the first page or second page was viewed but the totality was not summed up. Nobody could guess if it represented 10, 100, or 300 pages as the witnesses viewed it. Incidentally the BOM has shrunk 16 pages worth comparing the present to the original. Hieroglyphs were created by hand calligraphy--not type style like used by a press. Therefore they were larger than 8 point type. And writing on metal requires a tool. This means the carved glyphs were larger than an ink pressed type. Again, the story goes that 15 year old Joseph Smith out ran a group of boys pursuing him in the woods. This Book must have weighed hundreds of pounds. But if it only weighed 45 lbs, this is 1/3 of the body weight of a lanky 15 year old boy. He could not outrun his pursuers. Do you weigh 180 lbs? Try running with 60 lbs. All you can do is fast walk it…
4:50. He addresses that in his history actually. He said how he enjoyed playing with people with it, and man, if they're gonna pay him more to entertain them with that obsession than to dig the canal, psh... wouldn't you? It's not like he advertised his services. Even in the money digging case the court documents show he was sought out and encouraged relentlessly by Stole who just needed to believe there was gold in dem hills so much he kept trying and trying. Thats exactly how that court case reads, cuz ya know Stole wad the key witness for JOSEPH - the guy whose money he was actually taking. His kin didn't like him spending their inheritance on his dreams so they took Joseph to court. He did feel bad of it all though when they all started going to church so he repented over time as he saw how much it could actually cause trouble telling people the lies the wanted y To hear. So he dug up a real treasure for them. Something that they didn't even have to see to believe in. It just had to exist in their minds. It's the Bible written for a bunch of frontiersmen who just fought a bloody war with their native neighbors and lived in constant fear of each other. It made Jesus and his Gospel very real for them, and it made it work. We may have never gone west. Or maybe never found gold in California in 1849 if no one had heard that Joseph had in fact got the plates he said he'd got. Ya know? Would that have been better? Maybe. I dunno if I'd still be me here and now though. Would you be you?
JS was practicing plural marriage before the revelation was received. As for Emma Smith she encouraged four early marriages, even acting as witness. She was well aware that plural marriage was a doctrine.
1:30. You might find John Hamer's lectures on Cetnre Place interesting. He explains how much of the new Testament is less like several different first person accounts and more like anthologies organized by main character. Which makes more sense when you are trying to convey the artist beauty in God's story. Maybe less sense if you're trying to provide evidence in a court of law. But think about it - not Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or any Apostle ever gave a first hand account saying "and then Jesus said to ME" etc. Not even Paul gave his own account of his own visions and conversion in the first person. He is always named as a character. Or am I wrong? I may be...
It is funny how many of the ideas in Mormonism actually slept their way into the TV series Battlestar Galactica. I still like the show, but I recognize the Mormon references for what they are now.
4:43 We could say that Paul was a con man as well, who contributed to one of these religions which make you trust the doctrine of one man. 1 Corinthians 9:20-22
Wayne May - archeologist. Heartland BofM theory. DNA evidence of the Great Lakes Native American Tribes. You need to check out the evidence. And also, artifacts found in Michigan. The elephant mound in Wisc. And Kahokia in Southern Illinois.
@@ChrisToohey-j2j He does not meet the minimum qualification standards to be a professional archaeologist. As an amateur, he distributes pseudoarchaeology.
The Book of Mormon has had 16 pages worth of words removed, censored. Simply compare the 1st version with later versions that use identical type styles and size.
I agree that no other witnesses to validate JS claims is quite problematic, but I don’t see how books (Matt/Mark/Luke/John) in the Old Testament are in any way comparable. Those books are only named after those men, they aren’t eye “witnesses” of Jesus. There are generations between Jesus’ life and the authorship of the books named after the disciples. Not arguing for JS or Mormonism, but I don’t agree with the other argument either.
I’m a Mormon and I don’t know what to do because I just don’t believe it anymore. 😞 Martin Luther’s theology seems to make sense to me, but if this church isn’t true why on earth would any church be true?
Dustin my friend, you need to read the Doctrine and Covenants each day. In terms of Martin Luther, read his comments of hate against the Jewish people. Martin Luther is one of the major reasons for anti-semitism. You are exactly correct, if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not true, then we would still need to wait for the restoration of the Church through God sending Peter, James, John, Moses, Elias, Elijah and all the rest to retore their priesthood keys to the earth just as what has already transpired in the 1830s. If the Church is not true, then there still is no true Christian Church upon the earth. It is just that simple.
Tim Keller's series - Reason for God ( it is on youtube) was super helpful to me during deconstructing LDS doctrines, including the idea that there must be only one and true church. Church is made of imperfect people but the Word of God is true. Studying Bible, talking to pastors, visiting different churches helped our family to understand what the Gospel of our Lord Jesus is truly about and how LDS doctrines are off. It is about your relationship with Jesus and you cannot earn your salvation. Grace is a gift. There are no saving ordinance. Only Jesus can save us. It takes time to deconstruct so be patient with yourself. We go to Presbyterian Church and sometimes to Lutheran. All the best on your journey
In order to believe what you just said you have to reject the Bible thus unbecoming a Christian. 1. Paul clearly teaches in Ephesians 4:5 that there is "one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism." Paul does not say that there is "one Lord, many faiths, and many baptisms." So to reject the idea that there must be only one true church, would be to reject the Bible and thus become a non-Christian. 2. No one can earn their salvation. That is a Jewish religious concept that was repeatedly rejected by Paul. At the same time, Jesus has decided to only save us through saving ordinances. It is by undergoing saving ordinances that one demonstrates their faith that Jesus will save him/her. Jesus Himself said that "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16) Jesus thus says that He will damn those who do not have the saving ordinances. So once again if you do not believe this, then you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God and are thus a non-Christian. The great thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is that it is the only church who believes in the Bible. All other churches take a passage here or there, and then they reject all of the other biblical passages that do not agree with what they choose to believe.
Just because Communism doesn't bring class equality doesn't mean all government is false and bad. Just because Nihilism is harmful doesn't mean all philosophy is worthless. Just because candy isn't healthy doesn't mean all food is unhealthy.
You were made in the image of God with infinite worth and value. You are a soul. Your soul is eternal. You will spend eternity in heaven or hell as Christ said. There is no salvation in any church. There is only salvation in Jesus. Acts 4:12 The whole purpose of your existence is to know God and enjoy him forever, not become a god. Jer. 9:23-24; Phil. 3:8-10; John 17:3; Read the New Testament and find out what the true, original church was like. Then find a church that follows the New Testament pattern. A true church follows the Bible as closely as possible. They have a high view of God and a low view of themselves. They are there to worship God, not be entertained. Jesus said, "Follow me." (not a church) Jesus is the good Shepherd. Jesus will never let you down. John 10:27 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. God bless you!
While I agree with your criticism of Mormonism and Joseph Smith, I also cannot be a Christian for many of the same reasons. While I am still studying early Christianity and how it came about, I have learned enough already to see that it is also not credible as real truth.
Mormonism started unraveling for me while studying about early Judaism and Christianity. A lot of Mormon theology came from Masonry and Swedenborgism? Okay, a lot of Jewish and Christian theology came from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrians were the OG Christians.
@@Jimmy-iy9pl they apply in the sense that what are taught in most mainstream Christian churches is NOT accurate or true history. How the Bible came to be and who actually wrote the books in it are NOT what most are taught.
Which part? Prophecy? Miracles? Historicity? You can very easily believe Jesus existed and formed a church in the first century without believing they performed miracles.
1. It's not Joseph Smith's sole testimony of the veracity that matters- there were 11 other witnesses of the plates. Modern analysis of the BOM verifies that each book within it was written by a separate individual. Every claim against its veracity has been tested and refuted. We don't worship Joseph Smith - we accord him respect as the first prophet of this dispensation. If every prophet was to be judged by the world, none would stand up to scrutiny - Moses was a murderer but we still accord him the respect he deserves as one of God's chosen leaders. 2. There is plenty of historical evidence. Take the BOM's mention of horse which was scoffed at because conventional wisdom was that there were no horses before the Spanish arrived. Wrong. I think the Hopewell sites will prove to be pertaining to the Nephite/Lamanite peoples. Modern DNA studies confirm the presence of peoples from the Middle East. The many equivalences in the language, symbolism, lore and rituals of several native American tribes with Hebrew is well documented. 3. The "Mormon" view of God is entirely consistent with the God of the Bible. The BOM clarifies His nature and form to a much greater degree. The BOM also offers cogent exposition of biblical utterances which would otherwise remain obscure. 4. The Book of Abraham is not claimed as a translation, but as a source for inspired revelation. Smith's translation of the BOM and his claim that it was written in reformed Egyptian was verified by at least one contemporary expert.
Many thanks Dr Cooper for your well researched and well presented videos. I hope they will impact the hearts and minds of many to seek the God of all Truth
My only question is how do you think the book of mormon came out? How would joseph being as bad as you claim, be able to make such a work as that book?
@@tasmanian5566 what i m saying, is that a man could not take those hystories out of his head, but i m not here to discuss, just read the book and u can see by yourself
@@guicoimbra9364 The idea of American Indians being descended from a lost tribe or tribes of Israel was a common idea that appeared in plays and novels in the 1700s and 1800s. And people in the US in the 1800s saw effigy mounds and other Indian mounds and assumed they weren't built by American Indians, but were the American equivalent of Roman ruins in Europe: remnants of an earlier civilization. Smith could make up his tales following from those common ideas.
Former Mormon here. Appreciate your analysis on the LDS religion. After over 40 years of having some religious influence in my life I've come to the following conclusion: They (Hebrew, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, etc.) ARE ALL SCREWED UP AND SCREWING HUMANITY!!! If there is a God (and I believe there is) then something got very broke a very long time ago. The moment men started saying "this is what God told me..." religion) was when all the problems started. Religion has caused more suffering and death than anything else. 120 years (120 jubilees?) is fast approaching and at the door. Then IF He returns, maybe He'll explain why He left in the first place. I know, He wants to see how bad we want Him. I won't even start on criticizing that one, among many others. The shear volume of subject matter as reflected in your many vids just makes one want to puke it all out! Take all the complexity and shove it! No true human or believer will tolerate it for long nor should as it greatly interferes with, ah what do you call it, Living your Life!
10:00. Incorrect. The book of mormon gave its early readers a storied history of their scenery - the many hills and mounds around them that seemed too geometric or even to be merely rolling hills of the landscape. Dan Vogel talks a lot about the prevalence of various mound builder myths in the 1800s Great Lakes zeitgeist. They had evidence all around them of the stories in the book.
@@leef_me8112 true. I guess their materials were the kind that didn't leave much of a mark. There isn't a ton of archeological evidence of people living in these areas at all, but we know there was someone there cuz we know they had to be forcibly removed by our government.
Galatians 1:6¶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
"Is he the kind of individual that if he stood up in a court room and we saw his past we would say that this man has a record of speaking things that are true and his testimony was very trustworthy." I can't help but see the irony, because Joseph Smith did stand up in court, and many witnesses also testified on his behalf in regards to treasure hunting, and the charges were dropped. Then he was arrested two additional times on the same charges, and each time the charges were dropped. The evidence would suggest that Joseph Smith was very trustworthy. Several eye witnesses testified on his behalf. The prime eye witness testified that he knew without any doubt that Joseph's gift was genuine, that it had been proven to him. One man testified that he thought it was a scam, but he also saw Joseph Smith read a book by looking only at the seer stone, and he didn't know how Joseph accomplished that.
Trustworthy? The chrages werent dropped he skipped. And even the LDS church admits he was convicted, yes convicted for his part in the illegal bank scheme. You are a bloody liar again Robert as this has come up with you before. Also he was a felon as anyone in possession of a firearm in jail would be. So again. no he was a fraud as you are Robert. Also robert, he was arrested for Treason Robert, he was awaiting trail when his "trustworthy" Mormon friends snuck in a gun to him which is also illegal Robert. But tell me robert do you still feel you are racially superior to blacks or have you changed your mind about that Robert?
@@tthx165 You seem to be the God of hate and misinformation. The LDS community needed a bank. There was nothing deceitful about it. They studied the law before they started it.. It was just as legal as the bank of England.The 2nd bank which was built from the ashes it's still around today.. They took what they knew from the 1st bank and used it to create the 2nd bank.It is called Zion's bank. No one was defrauded.. The bank was an actual bank. But people just couldn't stand the idea of the mormons having a bank. People full of hate such as yourself did everything they could to make sure the mormon's bank effort would fail. But once they were safely esconsed in Utah, they rebuilt the bank and printed their own notes and minted their own gold coin. I deeply regret that you and so many others are afraid of the Mormons. It was fear that led to those ridiculous charges of treason, and fear that the charges were spurious that caused the assaination attempt while Joseph and company were in jail. Hatred and fear were the attitude of non-Mormons.
@@tthx165 A big part of the accusation of treason was because Joseph Smith invited blacks to come and live in Missouri as free men. When the saints moved to Utah they enacted a law giving blacks the same rights as whites. They did this a 100 years before the rest of the nation allowed blacks to sit on the same bus seats. Your view of history is dishonest in the extreme.
@@robertrosskopf4641 Complete BS again Robert, but thats how you roll, lyign for the lord. Funny how you attempt to ignore the other facts you lied about. If joesph Smith really did have these magic powers you claim why was part of the testimony that he never actually found anything? You see Robert, again you are at odds with documented history.
@@robertrosskopf4641 " Utah they enacted a law giving blacks the same rights as whites" COMPLETE BS, Utah kept blacks as slaves until 1862 after the US banned slavery. Its this thing we like to call recorded history and you lie again, all you can do is lies Robert. The LDS church was particularly hateful toward native Americans enacting an extermination order on the Timpanogos which led to the slaughter of many Native American in incidents the church romanticized into titles such as "the battle of fort Utah" and whatnot. Interestingly the church/state (same thing in Utah) didnt offical recent the order until 1976 when its tax exempt status was getting threatened over its overt racism. It was after the LDS church reached Utah that its president preached that the penalty for intermarrying with someone who is black is "death on the spot". Mormons loved him so much they named their only university after him. And they still adore him so much the chruch cries and cries and cries for months whenever anyone defaces his statue on the BYU campus.You forget Robert, we have gone down this conversation a couple of times now. I know you lie so much you cant keep track of who you told what lie to but I remember you Robert, quite well.
These arguments are really well constructed. Very modest yet reasonable. For me, I’d add one extra too. They place the greatest evidence for the truth of Mormonism in their individual testimony. Now this is problematic since satan keeps making himself an angel of light. Really such experiences should be preceded by an evidential basis. They really are putting the cart before the horse, they get a testimony and then desperately attempt to make sense of the many absurdities of their religion.
Thank you for saying that Latter-day Saints are genuinely good people with good intentions. That, they really are!! Why? Because we Latter-day Saints are followers of Jesus Christ. We invite all people to come unto Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a missionary arm like no other in the world, now with over 70,000 full-time missionaries serving freely to preach the RESTORED GOSPEL in 160 countries. The church is preparing the saints and the world for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@jimbomanzano4785 i should've prefaced my comment and taken a little more time for context; I was LDS. They are what I would say Christians should emulate and aspire to be like, but that's as far as I go. As I've learned more, there are just certain things I can not agree with.
I admit I only listened to the first part of this video. I'm not sure where you are going with your argument against Joseph Smith. Those of us who believe in The Book of Mormon are more than happy if you put the Book of Mormon on trial. Invite an expert and have a discussion/debate, present your best argument against it and see where that goes. The Book of Mormon has survived 200 years of criticism though, and I doubt you'll do much damage. Attacking the character of Joseph Smith seems so tedious at this point. If the Book of Mormon is true Joseph Smith did nothing that can't be justified. So, your argument is he hunted for treasure when he was young. My argument is the Book of Mormon is true, and I'm guessing you and those who read this have done far worse. "Polygamy" you say! Well, if your arguments rest on assumptions about Joseph's character you're probably wrong.
Reason number one; Their entire faith is built on lies. Reason number two; Their founder was the most obvious of hucksters. Reason number three; Every professional in the world speaks out against thier "scripture"
3:50. Well, the only time he did get to stand up in a court room and speak for himself he apparently did have the character and the integrity to explain his case to the satisfaction of the court and was allowed to continue on with his life. (The money digging case, pre-book of mormon discovery, I believe). Today he is not judged by his peers or even his contemporaries and is therefore entirely unconstitutional, nevermind backwards.
7:34. Sorry incorrect. I refer you to D&C 130 - 14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. 17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
Watched the video. I respect that these are the reasons why he doesn't believe we have the truth, but I don't think they're particularly good reasons. In particular, I don't think they outweigh the reasons to believe. Happy to discuss any of the points he brought up: 1. Character of Joseph Smith >How he used to hunt for treasure >Issues with early plural marriage 2. Book of Mormon Archeology >The recent shift from the heartland theory to the mesoamerican theory. >The fact that we can't point to a place in the Americas linked to the Book of Mormon (though he did acknowledge in passing the fact that we've successfully located Bountiful). 3. Doctrine of God >Quoted the Book of Abraham and Isaiah about what he sees as polytheism >Quoted the King Follett Discourse about inconsistencies he sees with Immutability. 4. Book of Abraham >Addressed the theory that the papyri were just a focus for revelation and didn't have anything to do with Abraham (which, for the record, I agree with him that that theory has serious problems) >Mentioned, but didn't thoroughly address the theory that the portion of the papyri that contained the text of the Book of Abraham was lost in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 (which is the theory I subscribe to). 5. "Historical contradictions" >Blacks and the Priesthood >Adam-God Theory
The church recovered that papyri and authenticated it. someone drew plans for a temple on the back I believe. This occured on the 1970s I believe. It just proves the historical account false. The papyri is a nothing special run of the mill funnery script which the dead were suppose to use to guide and aid safe passage to the after life.
Honestly if Mormonism was just the Book of Mormon it’d probably be one of the largest denominations in the world. It’s a stunning Christian document. But all the crazy stuff Joe did after that gets pretty creepy.
I would say these are fair criticism. I do have a few comments. When the LDS text talks about God being unchanging, it sounds to me like it's referring to His behavior, His love, things like that, not so much His rise to power or however you want to put it. I've heard some people talk about different gods for different planets, but I think the way it's supposed to work in LDS theology is that each universe has its own god, so that in any given universe there is only one god, one father of that creation. Which, yes, is quite a bit different than most standard Christian teachings. As I understand it though, the concept of the Trinity as Christian churches have it today is really a construct of the early Catholic church, and there were other early Christians that had different views on the nature of God but the Catholic church actively stamped out those views and those groups. As you reference Isaiah, even the Hebrew Old Testament view of god changed over time. At one time they worshiped El, God, and Asherah, God's wife. Eventually though they removed Asherah from their theology and settled on only worshiping El, or Ha-shem. As far as Isaiah itself, just as a point of interest the section you read from is actually Deutero-Isaiah and likely not written by the original prophet Isaiah. In general I disagree that we worship God just because He's other, or just because He's different from us. Instead, we worship Him because He's our divine father. So I have two questions for you: Why are you Lutheran instead of Catholic or Episcopalian? And, which version of the Bible do you prefer?
There are now tens of thousands of “Christian” churches with differing doctrines of salvation based on their own interpretations of the Bible. Do they all have the same understanding of the nature and disposition of God and his Christ? No!! If all interpretations were correct, there would only be one true church! How about you? What is the name of your church, if you have any?
@@brianheaton5521. That’s not true. Not all Protestant churches believe on the same doctrine of salvation. Do you know the difference in the doctrine of salvation between Calvinism and Lutheranism? Calvinists believe in predestination contrary to what other Protestant churches believe. How about you? What is the name of your church if you belong to any?
This is very interesting, Only if you can clarify your third reason, please, cuz Jesus seemed to have the idea that we are gods in John 10:34 or some type of Elohim as it would translate in Hebrew, and even if we sort of give the translation an applicable meaning of Leadership for men, in other words, we are Elohim cuz we are "leaders", still Jesus seems to understand God was calling actual gods to All who received the word. I have heard many people say mormons believe they can become gods and proceed to say it is a wrong understanding, and therefore mormons got their doctrine wrong and they are not Christians, but then nobody acknowledges this scripture. Hope you can share your thoughts Dr Cooper. John - 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came-and Scripture cannot be set aside- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? - NIV/KJV
Great work Jared. Maybe while he is at it, he would like to read Exodus 7:1. In the context of God sending Moses to Pharoah to free the Israelite slaves, God says "And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh." Oops, it appears that once again the good "Dr.?" has either never read his Bible, or this is just another of hundreds of biblical passages he needs to reject in order to maintain his false non-christian theological beliefs. We know what Jesus would say "Jordan, how can you pretend to be a teacher of the things of God, and yet, you do not know these basic doctrines" (John 3:10).
In the love of Jesus Christ, we would like to invite Jordan Cooper to come unto Christ, to accept Him as His Lord and Savior, to take upon himself the name of Christ, becoming a Christian through baptism by those who actually hold the priesthood and authority of God to perform such baptisms, without committing blasphemy.
@@charlescruise4750 The Old Testament priesthood is long gone. The Aaronic priesthood was limited to Jewish males from the tribe of Levi and no other. It was never meant for Gentiles. The Melchizedek priesthood is held exclusively by Jesus Christ forever. Hebrews 7. Any man who thinks or is pretending he has the Melchizedek priesthood is committing blasphemy, a very serious sin. In the New Testament, both men and women are priests. I Peter 2:5; Revelation 1:6; Revelation 5:10;
@@charlescruise4750 Latter-day Saints are not Christian because they worship an 'exalted man' from another planet rather than the Creator. They are breaking the first and second commandments.
@@charlescruise4750 Psalm 82 is speaking to the unjust Jewish judges of the day. Are you an unjust Jewish judge? These 'gods' would did one day because they were only men after all. This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28. The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). (Now Latter day Saints would say that Christ was lying when he claimed to be God.) Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men-albeit men of authority and prestige-as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)? In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds-there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.
The religion does not “stand or fall with the character of Joseph Smith.” Many of Gods prophets had issues, as you reminded us. You sound like you are supporting the LDS argument. The fact is, the religion stands or falls on the truth of the Book of Mormon, not it’s translator-Joseph Smith said as much. Have you read it cover to cover? If you do, and ask God sincerely if it’s true, then you won’t need to convince yourself that it’s all about Joseph Smith.
Red herring. If the mormon "Restoration" is false, then Mormonism is false. If mormon "Prophets" prophecy falsehood then Mormonism is false. 1. Mormon prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain. 2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent. 3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ . 4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so. 5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage. 6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978. 7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse: _"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, _*_as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome,_*_ that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause _*_A SKIN OF BLACKNESS_*_ to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: _*_'I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people,_*_ save they shall repent of their iniquities. _*_And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;_*_ for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.'”_ 8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false. ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
Here's my issue with comparing JS with old testament prophets... They lived before Jesus. Us living after Jesus lived see the perfect character of God lived out in the life of His Son Jesus.
@@Mygoalwogel with this same reasoning, I’d love to see you map out the beginnings and history of Catholicism and all its Protestant offshoots. Make sure to include all the gory details. I’m sure you could pick apart all the histories until not a single church is left standing based on their racist and oppressive pasts. I’m assuming then that you belong to no church, because none of them would hold up to your standards. That said, men and women, even prophets are fallible. Joseph Smith ran for President of the US on an abolitionist platform. Yes, many other church leaders said some really racist things and it’s unfortunate. Even Christ’s apostles made many mistakes, remember? But that didn’t make Christ’s teachings or His church false. All humans are fallible, you have to look at “their fruits”.
@@markdvorak9972 Nope. The Papacy is objectively false on similar grounds that the Mormon restoration is objectively false. Both claim to have prophets from God among them. Both prophecy things that are objectively evil. The Reformers claimed that they were NOT prophets, but that they were too inherently sinful to earn their own salvation by their words or deeds. This starting point is entirely true and right, and is entirely different from restorationist claim. If the Reformers did or said evil things, that is entirely in line with their own self-assessment. The the evils of the restorationist prophets entirely contradict their own self-assessment.
@@richardholmes7199 God made spirit children with his wife at planet Kolob, those children include Jesus, Lucifer, you and me. Then we landed on this planet and forgot we are children of god when we started inhabiting these bodies, but if we remember we are his children we can ascend and make spirit babies with our spirit wife and populate other planets. Oh and Jesus sneakily didn't go to heaven after his ascension, but he went to America and got the golden tablets written, so now instead of a heart of stone we have a heart of gold, instead of a heart of flesh and blood like the old testament prophesied. You can make of it what you want, but I call that science fiction, fantasy, or gnosticism, but not even in the ball park of Christianity.
@@yasaf934 I actually had to look it up, since I never heard about Godmakers. So logically, I have to inform you that my information was from a pastor that researched it, not some edutainment video.
This is a fantastic summary on problems with Mormonism, very well done! Though I always wonder why Christians get upset with Mormons redefining the bounds of God when Christians have departed from the earlier polytheistic conceptualization of gods in Canaan/Israel. E.g., Deut 32:8 famously differs in the DSS by saying "sons of El" instead of "sons of Israel", which signifies divine sons instead of human. This is especially more clear when you know that in Ugaritic myths, El fathered 70 sons. Or the 8th c. shard found which references "Yahweh of Samaria (i.e., the capital of Israel) and his Asherah", talking about Yahweh's wife. In the Bible itself, Josiah cuts down the statues of Asherah in the temple, so she used to be worshiped there. Why so much vitriol against Mormons for doing what Christians have already done, i.e. crafting their own version of God?
Thanks for your video! As an ex-believing mormon, I second many of the criticisms that you have of Mormonism. The only one that didn't resonate with me is the third point. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me to be little more than an appeal to tradition. The argument only makes sense if you start with an assumption that traditional Christianity is right, which in its premise includes the assumption that mormonism is wrong. It seems to be the equivalent of, assuming mormonism is wrong, mormonism is theologically wrong.
As a person who was active and faithful in the LDS/Mormon Church aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 35 years I can tell you active members are often caught up in a bubble of make believe. I joined as a 9 year old child so didn't take an analytical look at the Church before becoming all in. The Church carefully curates the history they teach members. Everything seems so good and we mostly only hear about how wonderful, kind and amazing past Church leaders were. The various doctrines other Christians take issue with are ok with us because we believe God literally told Joseph Smith how things were and what he wanted us to do. When I stopped believing in the Church two years ago it was like my reality puffed out of existence and I was able to start seeing all the pieces of the puzzle.
The puzzle you should have been really interested in was the true gospel of Jesus Christ. After 35 years of active membership, you said you began to see all the pieces of your puzzle? But you were never able to solve your puzzle and see the whole picture. You were more interested in where the pieces came from. That’s why you never understood what the true gospel really is and decided to leave and try a 2 or 3 piece puzzle found elsewhere among the thousands of churches with differing doctrines of salvation based on their differing interpretations of the Bible. So what is the name of the church which you are now a member of?
@@jimbomanzano4785 I felt really connected to Christ, the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Father as we identified them. For a while I considered joining the Church of Christ. I've watched a for amount of their online meetings. For now I don't have any plans of joining a church.
@@ks4893-m8v You should reconsider the church that you once loved. About 2000 years ago, Jesus built his church through his apostles whom he ordained and guided by revelations to preach the gospel, baptize believers who repent, and confer the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (Acts 2:38, 8:14-17, 19:1-6), and the members were called saints (Ephesians 2:19-20). There is only one church today that conforms with the Biblical church of Jesus Christ. It is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with its apostles and prophets and the members are called Latter-day Saints. I am an active Latter-day Saint with my family for 48 years now, and the Lord had blessed us greatly for following his teachings as found in the scriptures and expounded by his living apostles and prophets in these latter days. Jesus invites all to follow him. What did Jesus mean when he said, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (See Luke 6:46). Jesus was telling us that if we really believe and have faith in him and call him Lord, we should follow his teachings so that we can have a strong foundation in our homes and in our lives. (See Luke 6:47-49). Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”(See John 14:6). His invitation is open to everyone: Come follow me. Repent and be baptized in my name. Keep my commandments. Love your neighbor as yourself. Forgive one another. Love one another that ye may be my disciples indeed. Let your light before shine before men that they may see your good works.”Etc. All these require a lot of work, but we do them, not to save ourselves but to show our faith in Jesus and our love and gratitude for what he and his Father had done for us and for all mankind.😢
Ex-Mormon here. After 32 years of being a believing Mormon, I finally came to the same conclusions. Just took me a lot longer than y’all. Because, you know… indoctrination. Good video, you’ve spent a lot of time researching Mormonism and it shows.
Praise the Lord.
Honestly… I felt the same way coming out of a Pentecostal Holiness church.
Despite denominations, we are all 👉🤝👈
Do you now consider yourself Christian? I know many Mormons become agnostic/atheist after leaving. My husband is exmo. He is now a Christian. Two of his siblings followed after we invited them to church with us. Sadly, his older brother, the most TBM, is now angry & atheist. It’s been almost 20 years.
It has been my observation that those who leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do so for one or more of the following reasons: 1. They think they are smarter than God and are easily "deceived by the craftiness of men," 2. Their hearts long to live in the great and spacious building (worldliness) rather than on the straight and narrow path and thus lose their faith. If not already there, they are scurrying in that direction, 3. They get their feelings hurt, and decide to take it out on God by separating themselves from Him and his church. 4. They forget Jesus' teaching, "In this life there will be tribulation."
This video is very well done. I am a mormon, one who studied my way out of the religion due to it's many inconsistencies and inability to verify it's truth claims. There are nuances that a lot of non-mormons don't catch when they do videos about mormonism, but Dr. Cooper did not have that issue at all. Good job!
That's the same reason, I have. I also studied my way out of the religion.
@@KingPoseidon02 your faithfulness is unshakable with the help of the Holy spirit of heavenly father Jehova God
Do you still wear your magic underwear 😂 hahahahaha
@@jeffmclemore8274 first of all they are not magical. They are garments that symbolizes we have put on Christ. Second, Mormons will defend your beliefs before you defend theirs any day of the week.
It has been my observation that those who leave The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do so for one or more of the following reasons: 1. They think they are smarter than God and are easily "deceived by the craftiness of men," 2. Their hearts long to live in the great and spacious building (worldliness) rather than on the straight and narrow path and thus lose their faith. If not already there, they are scurrying in that direction, 3. They get their feelings hurt, and decide to take it out on God by separating themselves from Him and his church. 4. They forget Jesus' teaching, "In this life there will be tribulation."
I have a video request: the most important texts in christianity outside the Bible... such as Saint Athanasius The Incarnation... Augustined Confessions... The Divine Ladder etc
Great idea!
Oooo yes. This would be amazing. There are so many post-bible writings to consider, including the writing of the desert father's and mothers.
Yes
Much agreed! I'm "well read" for the average Christian, but I'd love to see what the thoughts are in a confessional Lutheran tradition. 👍 Always good to keep a list of books I need to read growing 😉
Thank you for this video!
Excellent analysis.
I began studying Mormonism and came to the same criticisms:
Joseph Smith's character,
The archeological evidence,
The historic events,
And primarily, the conflicting theology from their books in comparison to scripture.
Or....... you can weigh his claim of having his own personal face-to-face with God the Father against the scriptural truth that no man can see God and live.
For a Believer, you don't need much more than that.
@@bobbycecere1037 The problem with that piece of logic is that it conflicts with the numerous biblical accounts of prophets seeing God face-to-face found in the Bible. If you actually read and studied the bible you would be well aware of that fact.
@@bobrussell8339
The fact that i'm well aware of is that there were no prophets who had a face to face a meeting with God.
Not even one. After the fall it was impossible for any human being to stand in the presence of The father.
That's basic biblical Exegesis and you should already know it.
After the garden of eden every time scripture refers to God being in the presence of someone, He has a stand in representative. It's always one of his angels That are representing the almighty.
No human can see god and live.
Go read things.
@@bobbycecere1037 It's so weird for you to come on here and act like you're so far above the other commenter. Not very Christian of you...
@@jorgeenchiladait's so weird that you act like you're above the other commenter's 😅😂
Agreed. I’m so thankful that I’m no longer a Mormon.
Another difference between the biblical sinners and Joseph Smith is that the Bible calls out their sins, and the Book of Mormon doesn't for Smith. Often, as in the case of David, another, usually a prophet like Samuel or Nathan, rebukes them and calls them to repent. Who called Joseph Smith to repent?
Obviously, you've never read the 138 revelations from Jesus to Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. In these revelations the Lord calls Joseph to repentance several times. lol
@@bobrussell8339 So you admit that Joseph Smith was a sinner and capable of lying.
@@joabthejavelin5119 Joseph Smith was a mortal, not a God. I'm sure you are acquainted with the biblical scripture that tells us "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." He had his frailties just as the prophets of the bible. Think of Moses killing an Egyptian, taking credit for providing water to the Israelites and being denied entrance into the promised land. Think of King David committing murder and adultery. Think of Samuel killing people. Think of Eli allowing his sons to commit adultery at the entry to the temple. Think of Peter denying Christ three times. Think of Paul arresting the saints and condoning the killing of Stephen. Think of Paul being falsely arrested and imprisoned several times just as Joseph was falsely arrested 44 times, but never convicted of anything in a court of law. Why is it you have no problem accepting biblical prophets with significant failings but expect a modern day prophet to be perfect. Isn't that hypocritical? Despite his frailties, Joseph Smith was personally called by God the Father and Jesus Christ to be the prophet of the "restitution of all things." Acts 3: 19-21. Where is your restitution of all things? These verses tell us that Christ isn't coming back until this restitution has taken place, and this is not new news. It was prophesied by "all the holy prophets since the world began." Read Amos 3:7 and ask yourself, "Where are the prophets called by God in my church since God only works through prophets he has called.
Dr. Cooper is so correct with his information. This is real history. Please read, Fawn Broadys book ( No man knows my history.) No archaeological support for the Book of Mormon, None.
Jonathan, Wayne May has discovered hundreds if not thousands of physical remains of the three different peoples of the Book of Mormon (the Jaradites, the Mulekites, and the Nephite nations), you can view his presentations on youtube. But most importantly, if you read the Book of Mormon with an open and honest mind, and ask God with faith in Jesus Christ, God will verify its validity. He has done this for me and millions of other honest seekers of Gods full truth.
@@garthliston7641 I was a LDS member until 21, when I returned from my mission. I read all church doctrine, including the KJV of the Bible. There is no historical proof of the book of mormon, in fact more proof against it. More proof Joseph Smith was a fraud, criminal and an ego maniac. Tricking yourself into belief that prayer is real because it makes you obtain answers is wrong, when I drink a beer I feel good does that mean god is the beer? no... Let us not even speak about the book of Abraham, fraud. Had this church been born in these times he would have been laughed out of the room.
Thank you for the video, Dr. Cooper. You give an excellent summary of historical and doctrinal differences between historic Christianity and the LDS faith. My cohost Paul and I are former Mormons who witness to questioning or former LDS to show them that they need not reject Christ altogether by leaving the LDS faith.
I sent an email to you a while ago to ask if you were interested to have an interview with us. I think your knowledge and experience would be interesting to questioning/former Mormons who are considering where to go after they leave the faith and would like to know more about Lutheranism. Let us know if discussing these or other topics piques your interest. Thanks!
- Matt
Sure. I can do that.
@@DrJordanBCooper
Dr. Cooper, I left a reply to your message here with our email address but I don't know if it was manually or automatically deleted by UA-cam, but the comment is no longer there. We can schedule for an interview in April if that works for you? We are flexible.
Thanks,
Matt
For #2, it's not so much a lack of evidence, rather, I see the issue as that all the available evidence about the ancient Americas paints a totally different history than the Book of Mormon. The evidence is contrary, not lacking.
Joseph Smith, a Freemason also essentially acquired Masonic ceremonies/ritual into Mormon ceremonies/ritual.
Moses acquired much of the law of Moses, from polytheistic sources. What’s your point about Joseph Smith in order for him to be a prophet does that mean he has to have completely original sources?
Smith and his encounters with angels. Through out the NT any encounter with an angel, people are scared and very fearful. Individuals can endure such an encounter due to the angel saying either.."Do not fear" or "Peace be with you." The guards at Jesus' tomb left their post and fled due to an angelic encounter with no "Peace be with you" or "Do not fear." The lack of dread or fear on the part Smith with his interaction with the angel Moroni, shows this is a false narrative.
O yeah dude, for sure, your idea of angels may be wrong, they look just like humans, anyways, if you read the book of mormon u would know none can fake up such a thing, even less if joseph where this bad person people are acusing he of
Google ''Word Print Studies Of The Book of Mormon FAIR''. Peer reviewed research confirming the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.
Now there is a piece of fallacious logic if I've ever read one. lol
Whenever I think about Smith, Muhammad, Ellen G. White, or any of these false prophets, I'm reminded of this verse from Ecclesiasticus:
"Say not thou, he hath caused me to err, for God has no need of sinful men."
Following the teachings of some random sinner would actually be more advantageous than following these people. Who are not simply sinners, but even worse, sinners proclaiming themselves to be prophets speaking the word of God.
Ellen White's are in a league of their own. Read Desire of Ages and see for yourself. I have not found any writings that exalt Christ Jesus more or that leave the glory of man in the dust more than her writings.
@YAJUN YUAN My favorite post-Bible author!
You mean the American Version of Islam?
They do share some commonalities, most conspicuously the fact that both religions were created by false prophets. However, I think it's more accurate to consider Mormonism as an indigenous form of Israelism-like the Black Hebrew Israelites, only with an inversion of the races.
At the time, people made that comparison as well. The life of Muhammad and Joseph Smith are very similar and both make historical claims that contradict the evidence.
@@GerardPerry Mohamed claimed to be a prophet
Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet
Muhammed claimed and angel told him to lead the restoration
Joseph Smith claimed and angel told him to lead the restoration
Muhammed composed the Quran he claimed was new revelation from God
Joseph Smith composed the Book of Mormon he claimed was new revelation from God(later from Gods)
Muhammed received new revelation whenever it was convenient for him
Joseph Smith received new revelation whenever it was convenient for him
Muhammed took on many wives
Joseph Smith took on many wives
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 4 years and you are way off on this one. Mormons don't kill you if you leave the faith. We don't chop off body parts for crimes. We don't drown disobedient daughters in swimming pools. Women were championed for the vote and even to wear pants in the state of Utah long ago. When I was in Saudi Arabia I couldn't drive, I couldn't talk on the phone about religion, and I couldn't get a ride somewhere with a man who wasn't my husband, without running the risk of deportation. When I went shopping I would take my children for protection from being patted in inappropriate places by the shopkeepers. I had to cover up my clothing with a black bathrobe type outerwear and could not eat or drink during the day in public during Ramadan. Everything stopped during prayer call and you would be locked out of a business or locked inside. There were religious policemen who went around looking for people who were breaking religious observances. Muhammad was the last prophet and there are none after him. We still have a living prophet today. The LDS Church does not engage in terrorism and hate speech. To draw such a comparison is absolute naivety.
@@GerardPerry Read my response above. You people do not know what you're talking about.
I left Mormonism for Presbyterianism. I joined them, received the aaronic priesthood, and went to stay at a mission training center. I didn't know about the crazy stuff until some older chap there started telling me that Adam was God, even though the younger folks believed that Adam was Michael. That, their denial of the perpetual virginity, and the historical revisionism are the reasons that I left them. They kept telling me not to look at Young, but Monson. Because even I saw the contradictions between them.
I still don't drink tea, coffee, or caffeinated beverages.
My views now that I'm older are somewhere between Catholic and Protestant. I believe in Theosis and the eternity of heterosexual monogamous marriage like the Orthodox Church does, which is based on St John Chrysostom's Letter to a Young Widow.
I get my ideas about marriage from the writings of Josiah Trenham, John Meyendorff, and St John Chrysostom.
My pastor said that outside of the marriage thingamajig that my views are closer to Anglicanism and Lutheranism than to Presbyterianism since I go to confession (at the United Methodist Church), believe in the perpetual virginity, believe in baptismal regeneration, and believe in real corporeal presence.
Luther believed in the perpetual virginity, and that Christ was present, in, with, and under the elements of the Eucharist.
Why do you believe in perpetual virginity?
Luther was a man and like all men made mistakes. The two visible to me are antisemitic statements and Marionism.
There may have been mitigating circumstances for Luther being against Jews. The Bible does not say that Mary remained a virgin, was sinless or that she did not die. All are later inventions. The invented logics that Mary was sinless is that she had to be sinless to be able to give birth to a sinless Son. Just one generation? Wouldn't her mother have to be without sin for the same reason? Logically that would have to go all the way back to Eve. Eve was the first human to sin.
If Mary were not the mother of God the things the Bible says about her would be taken as clear that she had at least 6 children after Jesus. We know the names of 4 sons and there were at least two daughters. The idea that they were Joseph's children by a previous marriage and that he was too old to be sexually interested in Mary does not hold up. Joseph was able to travel from Nazareth to Jerusalem and back when Jesus was 12.
You admit that you got your notion of eternal marriage from men. Well its unbiblical. In Mathew 20 the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus ask Him which of 7 brothers a woman had been married to in life she would be married to in heaven. Jesus after rebuking them for not knowing from Scripture tells them that there will be no giving or taking in marriage, that we will be like the angels.
Sorry, but your view on marriage is heresy. Jesus says in the rezurrection, there is no marriage.
@@bradenglass4753 The word heresy is too strong. Heresy is false doctrine that affects salvation such as Unitarianism.
The false belief that marriage is eternal does not keep someone from being saved. But if someone believes one false doctrine they usually believe more.
What about the claim of being the restored church? There is nothing that I have learned about the Mormon religion that fits early Christianity or anything in either the old or New Testament. So what did they restore?!?
The same thing could be said about Protestantism, because early Christianity was very Catholic/Orthodox.
@@fantasia55 There are five Solas, with Sola Scriptura one of them. You can easily find issues and problems in any church. This is a fallen world! But you can test their doctrines against the Bible. Textual criticism shows we have a Bible that has been handed down pretty reliably. But this is not the issue at hand. Finding problems in a different religion does not take away issues in Mormonism. That is an informal fallacy. Mormonism needs to be tested on its own. Compare the temples of Mormonism and the temple of Jerusalem - are there any similarities in purpose, in what goes on, etc… why so many, when The God of the Bible had only one?
Or give Mormonism the basic world view test of origin, what is wrong with the world and us, how is it fixed and what is our destiny? Look at how Mormonism answer these questions and then check if they fit with the Bible. The Bible is the story of creation (origin), fall (what is wrong), redemption ( Christ death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sin), and consummation (ultimate glory for those who believe in Jesus Christ).
When I look at Mormonism, I don’t find internal consistency and I don’t find that it is based on what the Bible says.
@@fantasia55 early Christianity was very Catholic/Orthodox? Who in the world told you that?
@@truthbebold4009the Church Fathers. Early Christianity was all about the Mass.
@@fantasia55 same thing could be said about medieval and modern day RCC 😂
The 1 reason I’m not a Mormon- I am a Christian and reject cults. Mormonism is not Christianity and people need so stop treating it like it is.
Bingo. The fact they think they can be a God is proof enough they are of the devil.
How do you respond to the assertion that many Christian churches are equally cults?
Religions can be identified as Cults in how they treat members who leave.
@@johnsax1445 LDS members will proudly tell you that they don't disown those who leave. They just show a condescending "abundance of love" for family members and apostates, praying for them to return to the true faith. Christianity isn't much different.
@@bonojennett You’re 🧠 brainwashed, every ex Mormon I’ve met said their families no longer talk to them.
Helpful insight. Thank you!
Me seeing the title and grabbing the popcorn 🍿
“This is gonna be good!”
I had a conversation with some Mormon missionaries recently about why I objected to Mormonism and I cited their doctrine of Christ and how it differed from the Gospel, but I don't think I gave them a very cogent response.
Gerard, I commend you giving an answer. I do not know what to said, but I suspect it was more cogent than you think. Back in December I talked with a couple of their boys here. I felt, at first, pretty GOOD about what I said 😏 and they ended up still saying we were a lot alike in our beliefs. Um...where did I go wrong?
@@DrMJS Those missionaries may have been taught to find mutual beliefs between you & their organization. Then they can use your similar beliefs, terms, favorite words to show you how your & their beliefs are …. either pretty much all wrong, or they’ve built a good foundation for you to enter right on into Mormonism. 😉
Some get so focused on their mission & to convert that they won’t seem to even hear you. And truly, many aren’t trying to; they’re just doing as they’ve been taught they must for their missions to be deemed successful.
But, I think any interaction causing them to reassess or later deconstruct their beliefs is a good thing!
This comes a little bit old, but can I ask you what a coach response is? I’m a member of the church of Jesus Christ of the Saints and I’ve heard some very intelligent Christians. Try to explain your idea of the Godhead. I’m not sure there is a cogent response. it doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense. I could explain an LDS idea of the godhead to a five-year-old would have no problem understanding it
Only 5? You got to pump up those numbers, Cooper! You could probably list a 100!
How long do you want this video to be?
@@DrJordanBCooper I'd watch a podcast of you just listing them off rapid fire style for three hours, tbh.
@@DrJordanBCooper That's a complement, btw, you have a nice voice. Very chill to listen to while I'm completing puzzles.
@@DrJordanBCooper A few thouroughly explained reasons are usually more helpful than many that are merely mentioned, so I think this is the way to go.
And 10 hours. We would like 10 hours.
@@SterlingCat03 Now that is funny! Yet, I would definitely love seeing that as well...
Funny this comes out the day I am teaching my senior world religion class about Mormonism.
Nice haha. Are you yourself a Lutheran?
@@Ajsirb24 Yes teaching high schoolers at a Lutheran school
@@jacobharding5301 I myself am not a Lutheran but neither am I a Mormon. Do you believe the doctrine of Mormonism is heretical?
@@Ajsirb24 I cannot speak for the church as a whole. But my view has been yes. They twist the idea of the Trinity and make Christ out to be a creation of God the Father. Both of these things strips Christ of his true redeeming act of dying on the cross to remove our sin. They say they believe in Jesus Christ. But it is a different Jesus than the Lutheran/Christian church confesses.
@@jacobharding5301 I 100% agree with you. Do you teach your students about the "last days" or "end of days" as well? If so, which view do you consider to be the most consistent with scripture? My view and interpretation might be drastically different than yours.
I left Mormon church after 25 years. I am so happy today
It’s been two years since you wrote this, I’m just curious if you’re still super happy?
Let me tell you what happened to me when I converted to the Mormon church from a Protestant church in 1965. I was bombarded with anti-Mormon materials, and I became fascinated with all religions. In a lifetime of studying other religions and atheism I can tell you what happens if you follow the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is what the anti-church people are warning you about! They are saying that if you follow the church, you will not have as good as life as if you avoid it .
So here I am, many decades later. I have lived what the church teaches and I have seen a multitude of other people do the same thing. The ones who have done what the church urges us to do, have had the best life They could have had. Of course that doesn’t mean that there weren’t tragedies and trials. There always is. But the church teachings have always made the good times better and the bad times easier to heal. Anytime I have heard critics of the church complain about the church, It’s because someone in the church was not following the churches teaching correctly, or the person complaining was not following the churches teaching. Critics of the church frequently become atheist because no other religion passes the tests that they tried to put on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What you should ask yourself is
What religion will bring me the most happiness and the best life here on earth and here after. If you were wavering and standing on the edge of joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you might wonder “What will I be thinking about this decision 50 years from now? I wish I could see myself in the future.” Well, as a time traveler.(meaning that I was in that position in 1965, and I have lived all these decades to the present day) I can tell you from personal experience that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has made my life the best and most fulfilling experience possible. And I have never met anyone who has followed the churches actual teachings who has not had the same positive experiences. I have been studying anti-church materials for longer than most of the anti-church UA-camrs have been alive. My loyalty is to Jesus Christ, not to any church. I would have left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in a heartbeat to protect my family. And yet in spite of all the anti-church materials I’ve studied, I am 100% convinced there’s not a better religion on the Earth. If you are looking at the church, and wonder about all of the anti-people against the church, reach out to me and let me answer your questions. You will someday be my age and be able to look back and see clearly. Take advantage of my journey from the past and ask me. Scott Marshall Memphisbpc@aol.com.
greetings from ex mormon from perth western australia
One of my best friends is mormon and coming to stay w me. Pray I won't compromise and pray for her to search for truth and find it
Very interesting video! I just finished it. I would love to have you on to discuss it. I am an Evangelical but my audience is primarily LDS. I've been watching your channel for a few years and I really enjoy your perspective.
That sounds fun. I think you emailed me a while ago and I just forgot to give you an answer. What's your contact?
In your research on Mormonism, did you consult any sources provided by Jerald and Sandra Tanner? If so, what books or resources provided by them did you consult
Thanks, this was clear and concise
I found the Book of Abraham the most challenging problem. John Gee was arguing the missing papyi of the BOA theory. Kerry Muhlestein seems to be arguing the Book of Abraham came by revelation. Smith produced interpretations of the Facsimiles 1 2 and 3 which are contrary to what Egyptologists claim.
JS purhased and interpreted the paparyi. The church has recovered the paparyi and claims its authentic. Still no such thing as reformed Eqyptian though.
8:00. There is a beautiful temple in Independence, MO - it was built by the Community of Christ (RLDS) temple in 2001. It has a shell spiral to the heavens, is open to all, and prays daily for peace.
I haven't visited that Temple yet I'm going to make sure that I visit there sometime. I attend the Saint Michael's Episcopal Church in Independence Missouri most Sundays. I used to go to the oak Grove rlds Church when I was growing up as a kid sometimes and I also went to the St Michael's Episcopal Church sometimes back then as well.
With some flaws, this is well done and objectively done video. I recently left Mormonism having deeply studying the Religion with their basics. There is too many inconsistencies with the Mormon Church. Many including Mormon Apostles don't know that Early Mormon Apostles and Prophets taught Progression withing Glories of Heaven, Multiple Mortal Probations, and a few even taught that Joseph Smith was/is the Holy Ghost. Now they teach these are heresies. Too many inconsistencies. Too many heresies. If you even seek to know anything negative, you are shunned. Once I wanted to learn both the good with the bad, then I was shunned. That's where I started piecing everything together that Mormonism is wrong.
Is it your expectation that Mormonism be perfect from day one when Joseph restored the church? Is it possible that religious ideas might evolve as we learn. The current apostles and prophets don’t agree on everything.
@@Coastal1931 I didn't say Mormonism be perfect but consistent. To change doctrine because another prophet doesn't like something shows the world, Mormonism does not have a strong foundation.
Looking forward to a Jehovah's Witnesses video. I'd assume it would focus on Arianism, failed prophecy and general cult behavior. Popular refutations of the watch tower are always needed.
Can you do "5 Reasons I am not a Muslim"?
Honestly I’d like to hear this, not in any edgelord whataboutism way but in a genuine “I think religions are fascinating” way.
An excellent presentation on the basics of the LDS religion. Perhaps you can get into why the Aaronic and Melchizadek.priesthoods that they rely on are invaid based on Heb 7 and other passages. Thanks!
Dr. Jordan B Cooper
...HOW do YOU reconcile this -->> (Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:33)
He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.
.....ARE YOU fulfilling this prohecy?
1. Mormon prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain.
2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent.
3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ .
4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so.
5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage.
6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978.
7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse:
_"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, _*_as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome,_*_ that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause _*_A SKIN OF BLACKNESS_*_ to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: _*_'I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people,_*_ save they shall repent of their iniquities. _*_And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;_*_ for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.'”_
8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false.
ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
Satan called Joseph Smith. In fact, he was anointed by demons impersonating the dead.
Everyone is known for evil or good. Joseph Smith's evil surpassed most people's.
He was into sex trafficking, stealing money from people, endless lying, etc.
A bit off topic, but related to one of the verses you read...what are your thoughts on Isaiah 45:7 (the Lord who creates calamity/evil)? Seems a bit odd contrasted with Jesus' saying in Matthew 7:17-18 that "a tree was known by its fruit; a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit." The Lutheran Study Bible indicates that aspect of God as "the hidden God" (Deus absconditus) and permitting calamity through various things, but the word is create. Is it less about creating "moral evil" and more about punishing disobedience?
Although my step-father, decidedly the head of the household, was Lutheran (but also, alas, Freemason), my mother was the daughter of a man (my maternal grandfather) who was a much-married L.D.S. Mormon. He had twenty-two wives, all duly marriaed to him. Only one of them left his (the third, was was abusing his children, namely my mother Emma, who was named after Joseph Smith's first and only legitimate wife, and his son, my Uncle Tommy), which he finally resolved by letting the evil stepmother leave him. All of the other 21 wives remained in marriage to him, but drifted apart from him mostely due to his alcoholic binges. My mother lured my step-farther back into Mormonism and had a very low view of Protestantism, due to the stepmother who was so cruel and downright crazed, which her Baptist ravings only made worse. Polygamy caused my mother and uncle to have horrendous childhoods, amost Dickensian in the level of abuse that they sustained.
This guy is obviously NOT part of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
A glass of wine and a bag of tortilla chips. Let’s go!
Just think doctrine and covenants. What does that mean. ? What does the saviour mean when he says do NOT forswear thyself ?
I feel that we Christian a need to be actively become missionaries to Mormons.
Smith’s Golden Bible, Book of Mormon, had gold pages. Do you know how much that would weigh? And it is written in Egyptian symbols? There is a story that Smith ran from thieves with this golden document and he is 15 years old. Could this book weigh 600 lbs.?
The plates weighed about 60 lbs. No one said they were made of pure gold. They were likely an alloy that "had the appearance of gold." He was 21 years old when he obtained the plates. Joseph was 6 feet tall and very powerful--no one ever beat him at strength contests, so running with 60 lbs was very doable. You really ought to get your facts straight before exposing your ignorance for all to see.
@@bobrussell8339 There is no reference to “60 lbs” in existence. Which Mormon book says this?
Furthermore, even steel plates, are heavy. Furthermore, if the BOM were presented in English on steel plates, you are talking about 150-300 pages of them. And it wasnt presented in English. It would require 1,000 pages of steel plates using picture hieroglyphs. This weighs more than 60 lbs.
I challenge you to run away from pursuers with only 45 lbs--an Olympic plate at the gym.
@@timberrr1126 What's with this hilarious obsession with making endless calculations based on unknown variables. The text of the Book of Mormon tells us the plates were written in some kind of shorthand described as "reformed Egyptian" because Hebrew, the language they spoke, was too cumbersome to scratch into metal. Since no one has an example of reformed Egyptian, the amount of space it would take is an unknown variable. One thing we do know is that only 1/3 of the plates were translated. The remainder were sealed.
Here is a link to an article written by some academics in 2010 from which I get my information. It includes weight estimates from Martin Harris, one of the three witnesses and William Smith, a younger brother of Joseph Smith.
@@timberrr1126 "There is no reference to “60 lbs” in existence"??? You're the first mortal I've encountered with omniscience. Congratulations! What is with your hilarious obsession with making calculations based on unknown variables. Not even Einstein was able to do that. The plates were engraved with some kind of shorthand that the original abridgers called "reformed Egyptian" a currently unknown form of writing. The translation process was not the normal process of a person who knows two languages choosing the English words. It was a revelatory process wherein the Urim and Thummim (as a bible scholar I'm sure you are aware of that instrument as it is reference several times in the bible) and the Holy Spirit chose the English words. Joseph didn't even look at the plates when he was translating. He looked into the Urim and Thummim.
I concede the challenge to "run away from pursuers with only 45 lbs." I'm 81 years old, 5' 6" and haven't done any running for a couple of decades.
Here is a link citing several academics about the size and weight of the gold plates:
www.deseret.com/2010/7/7/20382906/how-gold-were-the-golden-plates#:~:text=It%20shouldn't%20be%20a,said%20%22about%20sixty%20pounds.%22
@@bobrussell8339 A hieroglyphic picture requires a size so that it can be read. If it is the same as 8 point type, it cannot be read. Therefore if it is 3x larger--it can be read. But this enlargement requires the Book of Mormon to be huge and heavy. Heavy because the plates aren’t paper they are metal. Then the next matter is the nature of Egyptian Hieroglyphs, each on represents an English letter when translated. So now you need 7-8 pictures to equal one word. So, hieroglyphs expand the original size of the BOM. Are there any hieroglyphs on the walls of Egyptian tombs/rooms , jewelry where the glyphs are 8 pt in size? No there isnt. They seem to be far larger like 48 point high or inches high.
“Reformed” means the symbols were different.
There is a point where common sense has to be used. The BOM that Joseph Smith had was never inspected fully. Perhaps the first page or second page was viewed but the totality was not summed up. Nobody could guess if it represented 10, 100, or 300 pages as the witnesses viewed it. Incidentally the BOM has shrunk 16 pages worth comparing the present to the original.
Hieroglyphs were created by hand calligraphy--not type style like used by a press. Therefore they were larger than 8 point type. And writing on metal requires a tool. This means the carved glyphs were larger than an ink pressed type.
Again, the story goes that 15 year old Joseph Smith out ran a group of boys pursuing him in the woods. This Book must have weighed hundreds of pounds. But if it only weighed 45 lbs, this is 1/3 of the body weight of a lanky 15 year old boy.
He could not outrun his pursuers. Do you weigh 180 lbs? Try running with 60 lbs. All you can do is fast walk it…
But Mormons just believe!
Only 5?
4:50. He addresses that in his history actually. He said how he enjoyed playing with people with it, and man, if they're gonna pay him more to entertain them with that obsession than to dig the canal, psh... wouldn't you? It's not like he advertised his services. Even in the money digging case the court documents show he was sought out and encouraged relentlessly by Stole who just needed to believe there was gold in dem hills so much he kept trying and trying. Thats exactly how that court case reads, cuz ya know Stole wad the key witness for JOSEPH - the guy whose money he was actually taking. His kin didn't like him spending their inheritance on his dreams so they took Joseph to court. He did feel bad of it all though when they all started going to church so he repented over time as he saw how much it could actually cause trouble telling people the lies the wanted y
To hear. So he dug up a real treasure for them. Something that they didn't even have to see to believe in. It just had to exist in their minds. It's the Bible written for a bunch of frontiersmen who just fought a bloody war with their native neighbors and lived in constant fear of each other. It made Jesus and his Gospel very real for them, and it made it work. We may have never gone west. Or maybe never found gold in California in 1849 if no one had heard that Joseph had in fact got the plates he said he'd got.
Ya know?
Would that have been better? Maybe. I dunno if I'd still be me here and now though. Would you be you?
JS was practicing plural marriage before the revelation was received. As for Emma Smith she encouraged four early marriages, even acting as witness. She was well aware that plural marriage was a doctrine.
1:30. You might find John Hamer's lectures on Cetnre Place interesting. He explains how much of the new Testament is less like several different first person accounts and more like anthologies organized by main character. Which makes more sense when you are trying to convey the artist beauty in God's story. Maybe less sense if you're trying to provide evidence in a court of law. But think about it - not Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or any Apostle ever gave a first hand account saying "and then Jesus said to ME" etc. Not even Paul gave his own account of his own visions and conversion in the first person. He is always named as a character. Or am I wrong? I may be...
It is funny how many of the ideas in Mormonism actually slept their way into the TV series Battlestar Galactica. I still like the show, but I recognize the Mormon references for what they are now.
They are explicitly there on purpose. The creator of the original Battlestar Galactica, Glen Larson, was a Mormon.
Very True! I was a big fan of the program growing up.
@@arthurodell3281 never noticed it. I think Glen Larson created a few of my favorite 80s series...I just remember that name popping up in the credits
Well done. I appreciate your Proach.
Ughhh
4:43 We could say that Paul was a con man as well, who contributed to one of these religions which make you trust the doctrine of one man. 1 Corinthians 9:20-22
LDS were changing the meanings of words before forcing semantic change was cool (and woke)
Reason 1: It's heretical.
Have you read Israel Finkelstein's book The Bible Unearthed?
Wayne May - archeologist. Heartland BofM theory. DNA evidence of the Great Lakes Native American Tribes. You need to check out the evidence. And also, artifacts found in Michigan. The elephant mound in Wisc. And Kahokia in Southern Illinois.
Wayne May is not an archaeologist.
@@Ralph419 says Ralph?
@@ChrisToohey-j2j Ask Wayne. He will tell you that his highest level of education is a bachelor's degree in political science and government.
@@Ralph419 so, are you saying because of his lack of college education
In the realm of archeology, that he is misdirected?
@@ChrisToohey-j2j He does not meet the minimum qualification standards to be a professional archaeologist. As an amateur, he distributes pseudoarchaeology.
This one should be fun.
Is there a reason for Mormonism being harmful to people (From a theological perspective)? And how that’s worst when compared to other religions?
The Book of Mormon has had 16 pages worth of words removed, censored. Simply compare the 1st version with later versions that use identical type styles and size.
It must be unedited or it can’t be true dammit!
I agree that no other witnesses to validate JS claims is quite problematic, but I don’t see how books (Matt/Mark/Luke/John) in the Old Testament are in any way comparable. Those books are only named after those men, they aren’t eye “witnesses” of Jesus. There are generations between Jesus’ life and the authorship of the books named after the disciples. Not arguing for JS or Mormonism, but I don’t agree with the other argument either.
I’m a Mormon and I don’t know what to do because I just don’t believe it anymore. 😞 Martin Luther’s theology seems to make sense to me, but if this church isn’t true why on earth would any church be true?
Dustin my friend, you need to read the Doctrine and Covenants each day. In terms of Martin Luther, read his comments of hate against the Jewish people. Martin Luther is one of the major reasons for anti-semitism. You are exactly correct, if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not true, then we would still need to wait for the restoration of the Church through God sending Peter, James, John, Moses, Elias, Elijah and all the rest to retore their priesthood keys to the earth just as what has already transpired in the 1830s. If the Church is not true, then there still is no true Christian Church upon the earth. It is just that simple.
Tim Keller's series - Reason for God ( it is on youtube) was super helpful to me during deconstructing LDS doctrines, including the idea that there must be only one and true church. Church is made of imperfect people but the Word of God is true. Studying Bible, talking to pastors, visiting different churches helped our family to understand what the Gospel of our Lord Jesus is truly about and how LDS doctrines are off.
It is about your relationship with Jesus and you cannot earn your salvation. Grace is a gift. There are no saving ordinance. Only Jesus can save us.
It takes time to deconstruct so be patient with yourself. We go to Presbyterian Church and sometimes to Lutheran. All the best on your journey
In order to believe what you just said you have to reject the Bible thus unbecoming a Christian. 1. Paul clearly teaches in Ephesians 4:5 that there is "one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism." Paul does not say that there is "one Lord, many faiths, and many baptisms." So to reject the idea that there must be only one true church, would be to reject the Bible and thus become a non-Christian. 2. No one can earn their salvation. That is a Jewish religious concept that was repeatedly rejected by Paul. At the same time, Jesus has decided to only save us through saving ordinances. It is by undergoing saving ordinances that one demonstrates their faith that Jesus will save him/her. Jesus Himself said that "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16) Jesus thus says that He will damn those who do not have the saving ordinances. So once again if you do not believe this, then you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God and are thus a non-Christian. The great thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is that it is the only church who believes in the Bible. All other churches take a passage here or there, and then they reject all of the other biblical passages that do not agree with what they choose to believe.
Just because Communism doesn't bring class equality doesn't mean all government is false and bad.
Just because Nihilism is harmful doesn't mean all philosophy is worthless.
Just because candy isn't healthy doesn't mean all food is unhealthy.
You were made in the image of God with infinite worth and value. You are a soul. Your soul is eternal. You will spend eternity in heaven or hell as Christ said.
There is no salvation in any church. There is only salvation in Jesus. Acts 4:12
The whole purpose of your existence is to know God and enjoy him forever, not become a god. Jer. 9:23-24; Phil. 3:8-10; John 17:3;
Read the New Testament and find out what the true, original church was like.
Then find a church that follows the New Testament pattern.
A true church follows the Bible as closely as possible.
They have a high view of God and a low view of themselves.
They are there to worship God, not be entertained.
Jesus said, "Follow me." (not a church) Jesus is the good Shepherd. Jesus will never let you down.
John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
God bless you!
While I agree with your criticism of Mormonism and Joseph Smith, I also cannot be a Christian for many of the same reasons. While I am still studying early Christianity and how it came about, I have learned enough already to see that it is also not credible as real truth.
Gary Habermas
Mormonism started unraveling for me while studying about early Judaism and Christianity.
A lot of Mormon theology came from Masonry and Swedenborgism?
Okay, a lot of Jewish and Christian theology came from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrians were the OG Christians.
I'm not sure how most of these criticisms would apply to Jesus and the early church.
@@Jimmy-iy9pl they apply in the sense that what are taught in most mainstream Christian churches is NOT accurate or true history. How the Bible came to be and who actually wrote the books in it are NOT what most are taught.
Which part?
Prophecy? Miracles?
Historicity?
You can very easily believe Jesus existed and formed a church in the first century without believing they performed miracles.
1. It's not Joseph Smith's sole testimony of the veracity that matters- there were 11 other witnesses of the plates. Modern analysis of the BOM verifies that each book within it was written by a separate individual. Every claim against its veracity has been tested and refuted. We don't worship Joseph Smith - we accord him respect as the first prophet of this dispensation. If every prophet was to be judged by the world, none would stand up to scrutiny - Moses was a murderer but we still accord him the respect he deserves as one of God's chosen leaders.
2. There is plenty of historical evidence. Take the BOM's mention of horse which was scoffed at because conventional wisdom was that there were no horses before the Spanish arrived. Wrong. I think the Hopewell sites will prove to be pertaining to the Nephite/Lamanite peoples. Modern DNA studies confirm the presence of peoples from the Middle East. The many equivalences in the language, symbolism, lore and rituals of several native American tribes with Hebrew is well documented.
3. The "Mormon" view of God is entirely consistent with the God of the Bible. The BOM clarifies His nature and form to a much greater degree. The BOM also offers cogent exposition of biblical utterances which would otherwise remain obscure.
4. The Book of Abraham is not claimed as a translation, but as a source for inspired revelation. Smith's translation of the BOM and his claim that it was written in reformed Egyptian was verified by at least one contemporary expert.
😂😂😂.seriously?
Many thanks Dr Cooper for your well researched and well presented videos. I hope they will impact the hearts and minds of many to seek the God of all Truth
I come out of the Reorganized Latter Day Saint tradition, and we are far closer to classical Christianity than our cousins in Utah.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
7:10. Didn't happen YET or INSOFAR AS we are currently aware
My only question is how do you think the book of mormon came out? How would joseph being as bad as you claim, be able to make such a work as that book?
What about it is so special the book of mormon? Do you accept the Quran? Or Hindu and Buddhist texts which are extremely poetic and profound?
@@tasmanian5566 what i m saying, is that a man could not take those hystories out of his head, but i m not here to discuss, just read the book and u can see by yourself
@@tasmanian5566 or dont read it, its up to you to decied
@@guicoimbra9364 The idea of American Indians being descended from a lost tribe or tribes of Israel was a common idea that appeared in plays and novels in the 1700s and 1800s. And people in the US in the 1800s saw effigy mounds and other Indian mounds and assumed they weren't built by American Indians, but were the American equivalent of Roman ruins in Europe: remnants of an earlier civilization. Smith could make up his tales following from those common ideas.
Go read the CES letter friend. A lot of the passages were directly plagiarized. I spent 40 years as a Mormon
Should be very hard select only 5 reasons
Does someone really needs to justify why he is not mormon?
Not gonna lie I expected reasons 1-5 to simply be Heresy”
Former Mormon here. Appreciate your analysis on the LDS religion. After over 40 years of having some religious influence in my life I've come to the following conclusion: They (Hebrew, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, etc.) ARE ALL SCREWED UP AND SCREWING HUMANITY!!!
If there is a God (and I believe there is) then something got very broke a very long time ago. The moment men started saying "this is what God told me..." religion) was when all the problems started. Religion has caused more suffering and death than anything else. 120 years (120 jubilees?) is fast approaching and at the door. Then IF He returns, maybe He'll explain why He left in the first place. I know, He wants to see how bad we want Him. I won't even start on criticizing that one, among many others. The shear volume of subject matter as reflected in your many vids just makes one want to puke it all out! Take all the complexity and shove it! No true human or believer will tolerate it for long nor should as it greatly interferes with, ah what do you call it, Living your Life!
Live you life above reproach and any thing negative said about you can Never be proven.
10:00. Incorrect. The book of mormon gave its early readers a storied history of their scenery - the many hills and mounds around them that seemed too geometric or even to be merely rolling hills of the landscape. Dan Vogel talks a lot about the prevalence of various mound builder myths in the 1800s Great Lakes zeitgeist. They had evidence all around them of the stories in the book.
And NOTHING in the BoM can be verified by archaeology.
@@leef_me8112 true. I guess their materials were the kind that didn't leave much of a mark. There isn't a ton of archeological evidence of people living in these areas at all, but we know there was someone there cuz we know they had to be forcibly removed by our government.
Makes me wonder why some are hesitant to refer to the church as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!? Maybe that just fits their agenda!?
Ten words long that's all..next conspiracy theory enter and sign in please
Galatians 1:6¶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Not a Christian, not a mormon; mild interest in Mormonism, but great admiration for Dr Cooper and these arguments. 😉👍🏼
"Is he the kind of individual that if he stood up in a court room and we saw his past we would say that this man has a record of speaking things that are true and his testimony was very trustworthy."
I can't help but see the irony, because Joseph Smith did stand up in court, and many witnesses also testified on his behalf in regards to treasure hunting, and the charges were dropped. Then he was arrested two additional times on the same charges, and each time the charges were dropped. The evidence would suggest that Joseph Smith was very trustworthy. Several eye witnesses testified on his behalf. The prime eye witness testified that he knew without any doubt that Joseph's gift was genuine, that it had been proven to him.
One man testified that he thought it was a scam, but he also saw Joseph Smith read a book by looking only at the seer stone, and he didn't know how Joseph accomplished that.
Trustworthy? The chrages werent dropped he skipped. And even the LDS church admits he was convicted, yes convicted for his part in the illegal bank scheme. You are a bloody liar again Robert as this has come up with you before. Also he was a felon as anyone in possession of a firearm in jail would be. So again. no he was a fraud as you are Robert.
Also robert, he was arrested for Treason Robert, he was awaiting trail when his "trustworthy" Mormon friends snuck in a gun to him which is also illegal Robert.
But tell me robert do you still feel you are racially superior to blacks or have you changed your mind about that Robert?
@@tthx165 You seem to be the God of hate and misinformation. The LDS community needed a bank. There was nothing deceitful about it. They studied the law before they started it.. It was just as legal as the bank of England.The 2nd bank which was built from the ashes it's still around today.. They took what they knew from the 1st bank and used it to create the 2nd bank.It is called Zion's bank.
No one was defrauded.. The bank was an actual bank. But people just couldn't stand the idea of the mormons having a bank. People full of hate such as yourself did everything they could to make sure the mormon's bank effort would fail. But once they were safely esconsed in Utah, they rebuilt the bank and printed their own notes and minted their own gold coin.
I deeply regret that you and so many others are afraid of the Mormons. It was fear that led to those ridiculous charges of treason, and fear that the charges were spurious that caused the assaination attempt while Joseph and company were in jail. Hatred and fear were the attitude of non-Mormons.
@@tthx165 A big part of the accusation of treason was because Joseph Smith invited blacks to come and live in Missouri as free men. When the saints moved to Utah they enacted a law giving blacks the same rights as whites. They did this a 100 years before the rest of the nation allowed blacks to sit on the same bus seats. Your view of history is dishonest in the extreme.
@@robertrosskopf4641 Complete BS again Robert, but thats how you roll, lyign for the lord. Funny how you attempt to ignore the other facts you lied about. If joesph Smith really did have these magic powers you claim why was part of the testimony that he never actually found anything? You see Robert, again you are at odds with documented history.
@@robertrosskopf4641 " Utah they enacted a law giving blacks the same rights as whites" COMPLETE BS, Utah kept blacks as slaves until 1862 after the US banned slavery. Its this thing we like to call recorded history and you lie again, all you can do is lies Robert.
The LDS church was particularly hateful toward native Americans enacting an extermination order on the Timpanogos which led to the slaughter of many Native American in incidents the church romanticized into titles such as "the battle of fort Utah" and whatnot. Interestingly the church/state (same thing in Utah) didnt offical recent the order until 1976 when its tax exempt status was getting threatened over its overt racism.
It was after the LDS church reached Utah that its president preached that the penalty for intermarrying with someone who is black is "death on the spot". Mormons loved him so much they named their only university after him. And they still adore him so much the chruch cries and cries and cries for months whenever anyone defaces his statue on the BYU campus.You forget Robert, we have gone down this conversation a couple of times now.
I know you lie so much you cant keep track of who you told what lie to but I remember you Robert, quite well.
These arguments are really well constructed. Very modest yet reasonable. For me, I’d add one extra too. They place the greatest evidence for the truth of Mormonism in their individual testimony. Now this is problematic since satan keeps making himself an angel of light. Really such experiences should be preceded by an evidential basis. They really are putting the cart before the horse, they get a testimony and then desperately attempt to make sense of the many absurdities of their religion.
"Blessed art thou Thomas for thou hast seen and believed. More blessed are they who have not seen yet have believed..." - Jesus
Reason 1. False doctrine
2.
3.
4.
5.
Nailed it!
It's a shame because i grew up in east idaho along I15, and members of the LDS church are genuinely good people with good intentions.
Thank you for saying that Latter-day Saints are genuinely good people with good intentions. That, they really are!!
Why? Because we Latter-day Saints are followers of Jesus Christ. We invite all people to come unto Christ.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a missionary arm like no other in the world, now with over 70,000 full-time missionaries serving freely to preach the RESTORED GOSPEL in 160 countries. The church is preparing the saints and the world for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@jimbomanzano4785 i should've prefaced my comment and taken a little more time for context; I was LDS. They are what I would say Christians should emulate and aspire to be like, but that's as far as I go. As I've learned more, there are just certain things I can not agree with.
@@Gunker02 You say you were LDS. So which church have you joined now?
Yep, those are good reasons.
I agree 💯. And the same reason I'm not a 500 years ago so called Lutheran. If concord is dogma so is Trent
The character of Joseph Smith is well documented. This guy is a bozo!
I know it’s not a 1-1, but how about Luther? He has some questionable character.
Who doesn't?
Lutherans don't follow luther. They ascribe to the book of concord, which is *not* a list of all of luther's beliefs.
I admit I only listened to the first part of this video. I'm not sure where you are going with your argument against Joseph Smith. Those of us who believe in The Book of Mormon are more than happy if you put the Book of Mormon on trial. Invite an expert and have a discussion/debate, present your best argument against it and see where that goes. The Book of Mormon has survived 200 years of criticism though, and I doubt you'll do much damage. Attacking the character of Joseph Smith seems so tedious at this point. If the Book of Mormon is true Joseph Smith did nothing that can't be justified. So, your argument is he hunted for treasure when he was young. My argument is the Book of Mormon is true, and I'm guessing you and those who read this have done far worse. "Polygamy" you say! Well, if your arguments rest on assumptions about Joseph's character you're probably wrong.
Reason number one;
Their entire faith is built on lies.
Reason number two;
Their founder was the most obvious of hucksters.
Reason number three;
Every professional in the world speaks out against thier "scripture"
3:50. Well, the only time he did get to stand up in a court room and speak for himself he apparently did have the character and the integrity to explain his case to the satisfaction of the court and was allowed to continue on with his life. (The money digging case, pre-book of mormon discovery, I believe). Today he is not judged by his peers or even his contemporaries and is therefore entirely unconstitutional, nevermind backwards.
7:34. Sorry incorrect. I refer you to D&C 130 -
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
Joseph Smith was, as Monty Python would, TOO SILLY!
Watched the video. I respect that these are the reasons why he doesn't believe we have the truth, but I don't think they're particularly good reasons. In particular, I don't think they outweigh the reasons to believe. Happy to discuss any of the points he brought up:
1. Character of Joseph Smith
>How he used to hunt for treasure
>Issues with early plural marriage
2. Book of Mormon Archeology
>The recent shift from the heartland theory to the mesoamerican theory.
>The fact that we can't point to a place in the Americas linked to the Book of Mormon (though he did acknowledge in passing the fact that we've successfully located Bountiful).
3. Doctrine of God
>Quoted the Book of Abraham and Isaiah about what he sees as polytheism
>Quoted the King Follett Discourse about inconsistencies he sees with Immutability.
4. Book of Abraham
>Addressed the theory that the papyri were just a focus for revelation and didn't have anything to do with Abraham (which, for the record, I agree with him that that theory has serious problems)
>Mentioned, but didn't thoroughly address the theory that the portion of the papyri that contained the text of the Book of Abraham was lost in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 (which is the theory I subscribe to).
5. "Historical contradictions"
>Blacks and the Priesthood
>Adam-God Theory
The church recovered that papyri and authenticated it. someone drew plans for a temple on the back I believe. This occured on the 1970s I believe. It just proves the historical account false. The papyri is a nothing special run of the mill funnery script which the dead were suppose to use to guide and aid safe passage to the after life.
Do 5 reasons I am not muslim
Honestly if Mormonism was just the Book of Mormon it’d probably be one of the largest denominations in the world. It’s a stunning Christian document. But all the crazy stuff Joe did after that gets pretty creepy.
I would say these are fair criticism. I do have a few comments.
When the LDS text talks about God being unchanging, it sounds to me like it's referring to His behavior, His love, things like that, not so much His rise to power or however you want to put it. I've heard some people talk about different gods for different planets, but I think the way it's supposed to work in LDS theology is that each universe has its own god, so that in any given universe there is only one god, one father of that creation. Which, yes, is quite a bit different than most standard Christian teachings.
As I understand it though, the concept of the Trinity as Christian churches have it today is really a construct of the early Catholic church, and there were other early Christians that had different views on the nature of God but the Catholic church actively stamped out those views and those groups.
As you reference Isaiah, even the Hebrew Old Testament view of god changed over time. At one time they worshiped El, God, and Asherah, God's wife. Eventually though they removed Asherah from their theology and settled on only worshiping El, or Ha-shem.
As far as Isaiah itself, just as a point of interest the section you read from is actually Deutero-Isaiah and likely not written by the original prophet Isaiah.
In general I disagree that we worship God just because He's other, or just because He's different from us. Instead, we worship Him because He's our divine father.
So I have two questions for you: Why are you Lutheran instead of Catholic or Episcopalian? And, which version of the Bible do you prefer?
Hi fellow Lutheran!
Hi!
Great video, however, i would think the NUMBER 1 reason should be that they dont worship the same Jesus as us Christians.
There are now tens of thousands of “Christian” churches with differing doctrines of salvation based on their own interpretations of the Bible. Do they all have the same understanding of the nature and disposition of God and his Christ? No!! If all interpretations were correct, there would only be one true church! How about you? What is the name of your church, if you have any?
@@jimbomanzano4785 All protestant Christians believe in the Same Christ. As well as belief on salvation. Try again.
@@brianheaton5521. That’s not true. Not all Protestant churches believe on the same doctrine of salvation.
Do you know the difference in the doctrine of salvation between Calvinism and Lutheranism? Calvinists believe in predestination contrary to what other Protestant churches believe.
How about you? What is the name of your church if you belong to any?
This is very interesting, Only if you can clarify your third reason, please, cuz Jesus seemed to have the idea that we are gods in John 10:34 or some type of Elohim as it would translate in Hebrew, and even if we sort of give the translation an applicable meaning of Leadership for men, in other words, we are Elohim cuz we are "leaders", still Jesus seems to understand God was calling actual gods to All who received the word. I have heard many people say mormons believe they can become gods and proceed to say it is a wrong understanding, and therefore mormons got their doctrine wrong and they are not Christians, but then nobody acknowledges this scripture. Hope you can share your thoughts Dr Cooper. John - 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came-and Scripture cannot be set aside- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? - NIV/KJV
Great work Jared. Maybe while he is at it, he would like to read Exodus 7:1. In the context of God sending Moses to Pharoah to free the Israelite slaves, God says "And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh." Oops, it appears that once again the good "Dr.?" has either never read his Bible, or this is just another of hundreds of biblical passages he needs to reject in order to maintain his false non-christian theological beliefs. We know what Jesus would say "Jordan, how can you pretend to be a teacher of the things of God, and yet, you do not know these basic doctrines" (John 3:10).
In the love of Jesus Christ, we would like to invite Jordan Cooper to come unto Christ, to accept Him as His Lord and Savior, to take upon himself the name of Christ, becoming a Christian through baptism by those who actually hold the priesthood and authority of God to perform such baptisms, without committing blasphemy.
@@charlescruise4750 The Old Testament priesthood is long gone. The Aaronic priesthood was limited to Jewish males from the tribe of Levi and no other. It was never meant for Gentiles.
The Melchizedek priesthood is held exclusively by Jesus Christ forever. Hebrews 7. Any man who thinks or is pretending he has the Melchizedek priesthood is committing blasphemy, a very serious sin.
In the New Testament, both men and women are priests. I Peter 2:5; Revelation 1:6; Revelation 5:10;
@@charlescruise4750 Latter-day Saints are not Christian because they worship an 'exalted man' from another planet rather than the Creator. They are breaking the first and second commandments.
@@charlescruise4750 Psalm 82 is speaking to the unjust Jewish judges of the day.
Are you an unjust Jewish judge? These 'gods' would did one day because they were only men after all.
This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.
The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged:
“I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.”
This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.
Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33).
(Now Latter day Saints would say that Christ was lying when he claimed to be God.)
Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men-albeit men of authority and prestige-as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?
In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie.
Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds-there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.
Their not forced in that postistion they could just addmit they are wrong like they should.
The religion does not “stand or fall with the character of Joseph Smith.” Many of Gods prophets had issues, as you reminded us. You sound like you are supporting the LDS argument. The fact is, the religion stands or falls on the truth of the Book of Mormon, not it’s translator-Joseph Smith said as much. Have you read it cover to cover? If you do, and ask God sincerely if it’s true, then you won’t need to convince yourself that it’s all about Joseph Smith.
Red herring. If the mormon "Restoration" is false, then Mormonism is false. If mormon "Prophets" prophecy falsehood then Mormonism is false.
1. Mormon prophets have publicly taught Non-white skin is the curse of Cain.
2. In his _Journal of discourses_ , Brigham Young taught that non-whites are lower and less intelligent.
3. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that non-whites are inferior in _The Way to Perfection_ .
4. Brigham Young taught that interracial marriage is a violation of the Law of God and that this will always be so.
5. George Albert Smith and Mark E. Peterson taught that interracial marriage is contrary to church doctrine and curses the children of such a marriage.
6. Non-whites were banned from priesthood and temple ceremonies until 1978.
7. II Nephi Ch 5, v21 teaches that non-white skin is a curse:
_"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, _*_as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome,_*_ that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause _*_A SKIN OF BLACKNESS_*_ to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: _*_'I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people,_*_ save they shall repent of their iniquities. _*_And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;_*_ for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.'”_
8. Recent official recantation of 180 years of evil teaching proves that the "restoration" is false.
ua-cam.com/video/hZIptfaNWO8/v-deo.html
Here's my issue with comparing JS with old testament prophets... They lived before Jesus. Us living after Jesus lived see the perfect character of God lived out in the life of His Son Jesus.
@@Mygoalwogel with this same reasoning, I’d love to see you map out the beginnings and history of Catholicism and all its Protestant offshoots. Make sure to include all the gory details. I’m sure you could pick apart all the histories until not a single church is left standing based on their racist and oppressive pasts. I’m assuming then that you belong to no church, because none of them would hold up to your standards. That said, men and women, even prophets are fallible. Joseph Smith ran for President of the US on an abolitionist platform.
Yes, many other church leaders said some really racist things and it’s unfortunate. Even Christ’s apostles made many mistakes, remember? But that didn’t make Christ’s teachings or His church false. All humans are fallible, you have to look at “their fruits”.
@@markdvorak9972 Nope. The Papacy is objectively false on similar grounds that the Mormon restoration is objectively false. Both claim to have prophets from God among them. Both prophecy things that are objectively evil.
The Reformers claimed that they were NOT prophets, but that they were too inherently sinful to earn their own salvation by their words or deeds. This starting point is entirely true and right, and is entirely different from restorationist claim. If the Reformers did or said evil things, that is entirely in line with their own self-assessment. The the evils of the restorationist prophets entirely contradict their own self-assessment.
It absolutely falls on Joseph’s claims. The fact is Joseph repeatedly lied. He was a habitual liar. You can NEVER trust someone who lies all the time.
1 reason I'm not a Mormon: it's called science *FICTION* for a reason.
Science fiction?
@@richardholmes7199 God made spirit children with his wife at planet Kolob, those children include Jesus, Lucifer, you and me. Then we landed on this planet and forgot we are children of god when we started inhabiting these bodies, but if we remember we are his children we can ascend and make spirit babies with our spirit wife and populate other planets. Oh and Jesus sneakily didn't go to heaven after his ascension, but he went to America and got the golden tablets written, so now instead of a heart of stone we have a heart of gold, instead of a heart of flesh and blood like the old testament prophesied.
You can make of it what you want, but I call that science fiction, fantasy, or gnosticism, but not even in the ball park of Christianity.
@@SojournerDidimus you need to stop watching Godmakers
@@yasaf934 I actually had to look it up, since I never heard about Godmakers. So logically, I have to inform you that my information was from a pastor that researched it, not some edutainment video.
This is a fantastic summary on problems with Mormonism, very well done! Though I always wonder why Christians get upset with Mormons redefining the bounds of God when Christians have departed from the earlier polytheistic conceptualization of gods in Canaan/Israel. E.g., Deut 32:8 famously differs in the DSS by saying "sons of El" instead of "sons of Israel", which signifies divine sons instead of human. This is especially more clear when you know that in Ugaritic myths, El fathered 70 sons. Or the 8th c. shard found which references "Yahweh of Samaria (i.e., the capital of Israel) and his Asherah", talking about Yahweh's wife. In the Bible itself, Josiah cuts down the statues of Asherah in the temple, so she used to be worshiped there. Why so much vitriol against Mormons for doing what Christians have already done, i.e. crafting their own version of God?
Thanks for your video! As an ex-believing mormon, I second many of the criticisms that you have of Mormonism. The only one that didn't resonate with me is the third point. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me to be little more than an appeal to tradition. The argument only makes sense if you start with an assumption that traditional Christianity is right, which in its premise includes the assumption that mormonism is wrong. It seems to be the equivalent of, assuming mormonism is wrong, mormonism is theologically wrong.
As a person who was active and faithful in the LDS/Mormon Church aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 35 years I can tell you active members are often caught up in a bubble of make believe. I joined as a 9 year old child so didn't take an analytical look at the Church before becoming all in.
The Church carefully curates the history they teach members. Everything seems so good and we mostly only hear about how wonderful, kind and amazing past Church leaders were. The various doctrines other Christians take issue with are ok with us because we believe God literally told Joseph Smith how things were and what he wanted us to do.
When I stopped believing in the Church two years ago it was like my reality puffed out of existence and I was able to start seeing all the pieces of the puzzle.
The puzzle you should have been really interested in was the true gospel of Jesus Christ. After 35 years of active membership, you said you began to see all the pieces of your puzzle? But you were never able to solve your puzzle and see the whole picture. You were more interested in where the pieces came from. That’s why you never understood what the true gospel really is and decided to leave and try a 2 or 3 piece puzzle found elsewhere among the thousands of churches with differing doctrines of salvation based on their differing interpretations of the Bible.
So what is the name of the church which you are now a member of?
@@jimbomanzano4785 I felt really connected to Christ, the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Father as we identified them.
For a while I considered joining the Church of Christ. I've watched a for amount of their online meetings.
For now I don't have any plans of joining a church.
@@ks4893-m8v You should reconsider the church that you once loved. About 2000 years ago, Jesus built his church through his apostles whom he ordained and guided by revelations to preach the gospel, baptize believers who repent, and confer the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (Acts 2:38, 8:14-17, 19:1-6), and the members were called saints (Ephesians 2:19-20).
There is only one church today that conforms with the Biblical church of Jesus Christ. It is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with its apostles and prophets and the members are called Latter-day Saints. I am an active Latter-day Saint with my family for 48 years now, and the Lord had blessed us greatly for following his teachings as found in the scriptures and expounded by his living apostles and prophets in these latter days.
Jesus invites all to follow him. What did Jesus mean when he said, “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (See Luke 6:46). Jesus was telling us that if we really believe and have faith in him and call him Lord, we should follow his teachings so that we can have a strong foundation in our homes and in our lives. (See Luke 6:47-49).
Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”(See John 14:6). His invitation is open to everyone: Come follow me. Repent and be baptized in my name. Keep my commandments. Love your neighbor as yourself. Forgive one another. Love one another that ye may be my disciples indeed. Let your light before shine before men that they may see your good works.”Etc.
All these require a lot of work, but we do them, not to save ourselves but to show our faith in Jesus and our love and gratitude for what he and his Father had done for us and for all mankind.😢
#1 My name isn't Mormon and he died a long time ago.