Solar Auxilia and Militia Vehicles - Tanks in the Age of Darkness - Horus Heresy - Age Of Darkness
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- FB: Bearfoot Miniatures
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00:00 Intro
02:29 Dracosan
06:28 Aurox
09:52 Arvus Transports
16:47 Lightening Strike fighter
18:54 Thunderbolts
23:01 Leman Russes
36:19 Malcadors
40:41 Artillery, Valdor and Infurnus
46:59 Carnodons
49:42 Termite
51:51 Armoured Support Tercio
57:51 Minotaurs
59:31 Cargo 8s
01:01:57 Gorgon
01:04:46 Rhino, Proteus and Termie (Survivors of the DA) - Ігри
A little note on Arvus, they seems bad true, BUT, they are the only way for milita to deep strike and bring mobility to the army. Something to note, arvus can hover, which means if they get destroyed, passenger suffer from the normal damage, not the flying one. It means it is a safe deep strike for the passenger as reaction are made against the arvus, and as it is hovering, passenger can disembark normally or forced to disembark with little damage as the arvus get intercepted and destroyed. 12 grenadiers with assault needler in deep strike are no joke.
Ahhh brilliant point mate: like the termite I suppose in doing that then!
Will have to try it out soon (not tried the Armoury provinence yet aswell)
A couple of notes on the Gorgon:
1. Even if we disregard the frontal AV of 15, it's a superheavy. This means it ignores EVERY result on the vehicle damage table, and a roll of 'Explodes!' only inflicts an additional D3 wounds to the Gorgon. If you load the Gorgon up with lascannons, you will always be firing them at BS3, you will never lose one to 'Weapon Destroyed' results, and the Gorgon will never be immobilised.
2. Because the Gorgon is a superheavy, it can move its full movement of 8 inches and still fire all its weapons as if it remained Stationary.
3. The Gorgon can also fire all its weapons at different targets if so desired because it's Superheavy. If you slap 6 lascannons on this bad boy, you have two sets of two sponson mounted lascannons, which can fire at anything in a massive arc on either side of the vehicle, and you have 2 additional pintle mounted lascannons that can shoot at anything without concern for firing arcs.
If we look at the points values, a Gorgon with full lascannons comes to 315pts.
For that price point, let's compare to a Leman Russ, which is generally considered to be the most cost-effective Militia tank, with what is likely its most effective loadout:
- Vanquisher cannon + co-ax autocannon, Front mounted Lascannon = 145pts
- We are taking the Vanquisher for obvious reasons, and the front mounted lascannon is the most effective option while also giving you a battle weapons you can destroy before a 'Weapon destroyed' result knocks out your co-ax autocannon that grants the Vanquisher twin-linked.
- Two of these tanks = 290 points.
So if we think of it this way:
1 kitted out Gorgon vs 2 kitted out Leman Russes, which is better?
- Gorgon is 8.627% more expensive (290 pts vs 315)
- Gorgon and the Leman Russes both have 8 HP total, so they are equal there
- Gorgon has AV15/14/10 the Russes having AV14/13/10. On average, higher armour values make the biggest difference against weapons that are Str7-Str10, that do not have certain special rules such as Haywire, Destroyer, Armourbane etc. Against Graviton weapons, higher armour obviously makes no difference. But against the ubiquitous lascannon, an extra pip of armour translates to something in the region of a 20% reduced chance of a glance at minimum being the result. On average when mathing this out across a wide range of likely anti-tank weapons, it seems like an extra point of armour translates to something in the region of an extra 12% protection against suffering a glancing hit at minimum (for militia, all glances = pens anyway). As such, in a vacuum we can say the Gorgon is around 12% more survivable than a Russ.
- The Leman Russes have M10 vs the Gorgon M8. But the Leman Russes can only move 4" and fire all their weapons, while the Gorgon can move 8" and fire everything. I'd say the Gorgon has the advantage here.
- The Leman Russes damage output comes to a total of:
-- 4 Vanquisher cannon shots
-- 4 Autocannon shots
-- and 2 Lascannon shots.
On average, each Leman Russ has a 75% chance of hitting at least one autocannon shot on a given target, with a corresponding 25% chance of missing both shots. However, taking the rolls of both tanks together, there is only a 6.25% chance of both russes missing all their autocannon shots. We'll take the average here and assume that 2 autocannon shots hit in total, granting both Russes twin-linked on their Vanquisher cannons. This in turn produces a likelihood of 69% for a Russ to hit both Vanquisher shots, which maths out to an average of 1.38 vanquisher shots hitting. The two lascannon shots are fairly straightforward, with a 4+ to hit on average one will miss and one will hit. This leaves us with an average damage 'output' of 2 autocannon shots, 2.76 Vanquisher shots, and one lascannon shot from our two Leman Russes.
I won't calculate exactly how these shots that hit will affect the target because it depends on the target, but it's good to remember that those 1.38 Vanquisher shots have Brutal (2) which is relevant for any model with a Toughness value.
The Gorgon's damage output comes to an average of 3 Lascannon hits, I'm fairly sure. What is better? 2 autocannon hits, 2.76 Vanquisher hits and 1 Lascannon hit or 3 Lascannon hits? The Russes have a slight advantage here, and I would prefer the Vanquisher hits against Dreadnoughts and Terminators, for example. BUT this all depends on the Russes not being disabled or Shaken/Stunned, something the Gorgon will never have to worry about.
If we take a step back, I think it's clear that compared to a comparable number of Leman Russ points, the Gorgon is frankly the Militia's most cost-effective and durable heavy weapons platform:
- It has the highest AV, making it hardest to glance overall and an average of 12% more durable than the Leman Russ AV.
- Even when it does get glanced, and therefore penetrated, it has superheavy so it doesn't care. It will not immediately blow up, and it won't suffer Weapon Destroyed/Shaken/Stunned/Immobilised UNLIKE the Leman Russes, which can be reduced to snap shooting quite easily.
- It can move 8" and shoot all 6 lascannons. Its damage output is deifnitely less than two Leman Russes, but this assumes neither Russ has been Shaken/Stunned/Weapon Destroyed
- It has the same amount of HP as two Leman Russes
- All of this AND the Gorgon can transport 40 modals as a bonus
- The one big downside is the Gorgon dying and Catastrophically Exploding. Make sure your guys are out of the way before that happens!
Oh, and one final note: the Gorgon is naturally an excellent choice for a Ramming attack, which produces 2d6 Str10 AP- hits against non-vehicle units, and against vehicles it is very likely to produce a Str10 hit. If the Gorgon then blows up and damages the enemy vehicles, this can also be used to your advantage (though if you're going to do this you probably don't want to load up on Lascannons)
Great video, these are some really good insights into probably the most vehicle dependent factions in the game! It's a shame the Vanquisher/Executioner are just so much better value than their counterparts.
I'll chime in for the Carnadons though, especially running all Volkite. 11 S6 Deflagrate shots per tank for 70 points is better than their equivalent in Velitares. The extra AV12 hull points helps push the critical level of "how many tanks can you kill" higher for the opponent to deal with, and being defensive weapons they're a pretty intimidating target to shoot at for most infantry or light vehicles. I took 3 in my 3000pt list recently and was so impressed I'm adding another 3 in.
Glad you enjoyed it mate!
And you can only sell me on Carnodons so much: ill have to invest in a bunch (my solar need a rework, the list I had was built for 1.0 so despite i didnt paint it till 2.0 it needs an update)
Tried to make my SA work few times, right now most Auxilia players i know just packed their armies and wait for next edition.
So I've been playing a whole lot of Militia lately, I actually have two different militia armies under construction right now but am testing them out regularly on tabletop simulator and the likes. One is a fighty abhumans list, no tanks aside from the occasional transport and just massed infantry and artillery. The other is a slower, shootier list that makes more use of tanks and rapiers, and I have to say that tanks in militia feel even better than they do in Solar Auxilia. The shooty tank heavy list definitely does better in bigger games (though my abhumans are more fun I find) and it's all down to how powerful efficient the Leman Russ, the Malcador, and especially the Baneblade can be. Like 400 points for a baneblade in militia is a bloody steal, 3rd line barely matters for it and malcadors. It'll still be an uphill struggle against marines but Militia can be unexpectantly good in a straight slugging match.
And no, I've never found anything useful to put in a Gorgon
This is why I think you can only run 2 special weapons in the grenadiers squad. For the price vs how they perform, I think they'd almost be overpowered if you had big bricks of melta guns running around everywhere. Haven't tried it yet but definitely agree a leman russ Vanquisher and Baneblade list would be much more of a headache than your opponent would expect!
@@paulyg405 Oh yeah if grenadiers or the bodyguard squads could load up on melta or plasma they'd be crazy for their cost. Sure they'll die to a stiff breeze, but you have a unit come out of a drill or deep strike in an arvus, have the provenance that gives them BS4, you're ruining some marine player's day. You could have half your army be kamikazi squads that just show up, blast face, then die, and the other half just be line bodies to twiddle their thumbs on objectives.
With an appropriate price itd be a nice option to have (like companions for SA) though needlers may be the key people have mentioned to me!
Agreed on the miltia/solar tank balance the extra numbers really help! Good to hear theres another person as obsessed with pre-post human armies as me: ive been planning another marine army for the channel and keep drifting to what human auxilia theyll have
With Malcador's reinforced should mitigate quite a bit of 3rd line pens save for 5s and 6s
true true, I just dont like the cost vs russes tbh, It was excessive when they had superheavy but tbh now I think they may need to go back if the price isnt the thing to change
Gotta remember to bring your thunderbolt on as well 😂
Ahh that old chestnut, it gets many an Aux/militia player from my experience (case study is of jsut me tbf)
hi i have played in 3 games 2 gorgon with full laser with good success ....but i have build the list for made a sense of this models (i play a list with industrial stronghold and armory) and obiviusly you dont have a really outstanding unit to put in, but with relic weapon is good put somthing to preserve your core damage output vs inf models. Basically i have used to put granadiers with needle weapons + 20 conscript for shielding it wen they disembark. Also my list is really heavy on lascannon vanquisher counts i play al ot of basic leman with vanquisher and 2 thunderbolt . with so many tanks is really useful have 2 superhavy with 6+6 lascannon . my list is really only fire based i have no cc at all, evry unit have a pinning weapon, needlers and sniper rifles and i play a culexus for try to pin more unit as possible and seem work good
hmm maybe i need to experiment: playing hop out, fire and then react back in game with some needle squads as you recommed may be the way to go
@@BearfootMiniatures needle weapons are awesome . anyway i love to see you play this list!!
I got my tax refund and ordered the SA rules, two army boxes (LR, Drac, 20x infantry, Sentinel), and 3 Medusas to get started. Then I watched this video. Looks like I should I return them all and just do Mechanicum because this army looks rough as fuck to play.
Do you think units can disembark from Termites the turn the Termite arrives and why? This has been a constant debate which has stopped me bringing mine.
The way were currently reading (p101 Liber Astartes im going off as writing), it says the units making the subterranean assault may move etc as normal, and specifies units enbarked can assault if the transport has assault (which if they couldnt get out wouldnt be something specified as it would be prohibited assaulting by still being inside)
Sorry for the late reply, hope this helps!
Unit prices don't make sense across alot of codexs, Gws inconsistent approach is rediculous. I honestly don't know how they continue to function as a company at times. It's likely a brand new Solar army codex will come out for heresy. Quite possible and new plastics. And all the points are redone. I have a feeling the books We got are to tie things over and then as it goes along each legion gets it's own book with all rules, general and it's own special units, missions, lore, campaigns etc in detail. The new solar army release will maybe show us this.
This is the reason I didn't invest further after the initial release. I have a full 5k legion army I can play, my SA and custodes remain on the shelve. Also not starting any new legions until the core infantry units are plastic.
haha it is amazing at times i agree but theyre obv doing something right by their profits
Can only dream for the silver lining of a solar/miltia book, but im not holding my breath atm tbh