Solar Auxilia List Building Considerations - Getting Started in Horus Heresy
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
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Reject Marine meta. Embrace purely T3 events
We are doing an event in my local community that is 3k lists with a 1.5k restriction to marines to encourage more non-marine factions. It's going to be great watching Daemons and such wail on Solar Aux.
T3 Legate with 2+ atificer armor, Iron halo and cyber familiar is my new dream.
The WAAC mind cannot comprehend Solar Auxilia.
Can I offer two points?
1. Artillery in Auxilia/Militia lists could be effective against armor at range. Being ordinance means they roll two dice and pick the highest against armor and, importantly, with barrage they hit side armor. This is the best way I think we have to kill Spartans at range.
2. Heavy bolter rapiers for Militia are a great way to kill/severely weaken the ubiquitous Lascannon squad across the table. They have relentless so you could hide turn 1, then pop out around a corner (or move a tank out of the way in front of them) to light up a squad with 48 twinlinked heavy bolter shots (with Militia).
Oh boy I missed this series. 😊
Could you make a video about mixes/allied forces? So what are good ways to build a legion+auxilia lists?
Yes, I will.
You got the the rules wrong for the explosion result effects on passengers. Its strength 8 AP -. The passengers will all get armor saves! :)
Sorry, you are correct, I just mixed it up with the blasts, thanks for the catch!
maybe you should organize any mistakes that are discovered within your videos into a pinned comment so people can quickly find any clarifications.
Also I really liked a lot of your more lore centric videos, especially the ones focused on logistics, I think it'd be nice if you did more lore videos. I think there's a niche you could occupy with the Horus heresy lore, as many channels seem more hyper focused on the modern 40k setting rather than the prequel 30k setting, and you seem to have a high level of knowledge about Warhammer 30k lore. love your content.@@TheOuterCircle
Where do i find your STL’s ?
List considerations: Don't
‘But first, consider this: *How brave are you?’*
Yeah for real unless you have a really fluffy cool group who will play down or also use Solar aug/Militia cults/Daemons it seems so not worth all the money and time
Im doing the recon list so my troops have T2, W2 and 4+ save
Also I think your being a bit harsh in general. You seem to be assuming that the marines will pass every roll and the SA will fail every roll
Well detailed analysis. Good guide for anyone looking to optimize their purchase/play choices.
Thanks Macca, really appreciate these videos. New starters need help to avoid wasting their money and getting disappointed.
A mate and I have playtested the SA list quite heavily and spent a lot of thinking time on trying to get the list to stand up to even casual play.
In short, it cant. Even a very loose legion list will fight down a highly tuned SA list to the wire. Any mid table standard list for UK events will sweep a power gamed SA list off the board by turn two.
Lots of ways the list could be tweaked to make it a bit more viable. It really feels like the list wasnt play tested with much depth and was rushed out. You can see the quality of the lists drop in chronological order of release.
Command tercios with melta/plasma in aurox, scoring unit token infantry, vanquishers and rapier batteries (maybe storm hammer) is your roster. Any other pick is reducing the effectiveness of your list. You'll still lose most of your games.
Its kinda lore acurate. The best the solar auxilia can do is still annihilated by an half assed space marine force who forgot they where even there.
I think you’re being far too harsh on your assessment of them. They performed quite well at Adepticon and at local tables, despite people preparing for them. Reborn cohort popping off LD11 stubborn to all units with a vox is absolutely nuts. Even running a 3 man jetbike volkite culverin squad, I wasn’t able to fully kill a 15 man unit. Said unit prevented me from scoring an objective that would have tied up the game, or let me win had the turns gone on. You can pick up 35 cheap scorers and a marshal for 350ish points. Even if your opponent is running a 10 man volkite culverin squad, they can only kill one of those a turn, assuming they aren’t receiving fire themselves. I think Astartes players are largely fixated on killing other Astartes players, because it can get cutthroat very quickly. On their own, I think SA are a bit soft, but in conjunction with Astartes, they provide cheap board control and scoring while being unshakeable.
Continuing the trend of "if they look like they could raise their arms above their heads, they're terrible" I see.
Quite glad volkite veletaris are one of my favourite sculpts haha
Back to the good stuff. Gj.
So one unit composition that you didn't really cover is the tactical command tercios. While I do agree with you that you shouldn't take this most of the time in optimized lists, there is an exception. If you run plasma guns on them it could be pretty useful. Especially since they all come with refractor fields. The companions sections that you can take along with them can be equipped with plasma guns as well. You can bring 30 plasma guns (in one tactical command HQ slot!) with the tactical command squad being line with the cohort vexilia. You can run them up in auroxes. Or you bring termite drills and subterranean assault them in. These guys can all take augury scanners so you can use them defensively too. While the gets hot will kill the guys, you still have to wound them and they have to fail their 5++ refractor field save. You can also take the reborn cohort doctrine which allow stationary units to reroll 1s to hit. Even your tanks! But the rerolls will come especially handy with these plasma guys. Yes, having these dudes jump out of transports and shoot means they have moved, but you can still reroll 1s via reactionary fire from return or overwatch reactions, since reactions always count as shooting while stationary. Like you said, stoic defender is the only practical warlord trait for solar auxilia, but taking it on a legate marshal/tactical command captain/marshal in a plasma squad is pretty brutal, pinning tests from your shooting phase, your opponents shooting phase if you react, and their assault phase if you get to overwatch can shut them down. If the tactical command tercio happens to survive into your next turn after the subterranean assault, you can charge into some tanks with them! They are all armed with meltabombs! Yes, the biggest issue with taking this unit is the fact that there isn't an easy way to build these guys out of existing kits. You will have to kitbash or 3d print them for now, but heresy players should be professionals at that :)
Yeah I have to second this after playing a few games with SA. Big plasma squads are great and I've got use out of 7 man melta in an aurox for mobile instant death. They're the only functional infantry in the list, relegating basic lasrifile guys to scoring unit tokens.
In a 3k game spending up to 1k on command tercio isn't a bad move, they're the only way to get decent BS4 weapons onto the board, your only way to cope with terminators etc.
Veletaris are too expensive for their output.
Never buy a tactical command squad, they're optional and trash. The HQ command at least get banners to spread scoring and have better ld to spread on vox.
You're hamstrung by troops as they're too expensive to screen with, but in cthonia missions (the meta in the UK) you need to score at least two points each turn of the game for four turns. They're so fragile min squads to encourage overkill is the best bet. As anything you push up the board to score a point will instantly die regardless.
GW plz release veletaris vanguard section & tactical squad companion section! Need all the options we can get for our HQ and elite troops!
Solar pattern is the way to go, velataris in aurox are a fantastic way to deal with space marines. Weight of dice works really well
if you are up for conversion a good way to get auroxs for cheaper is to just convert leman russ into them. you are getting a strike russ in the solar aux big box and you can use the side hatchs from the dracosan for flavor. The strike doesn't come with the plasma turret but it would mean sacrificing the vanquisher for a troop transport. the left over dracosan hull would be useful for building infernus malcadors or valdors using the duel kit for the valdor/infernus (if i remember correctly we are getting a duel kit
So if I want to maximize the badness, are there any Thousand Sons (or generic Legiones Astartes) units that could be good as allies to Solar Aux?
Are the Solar Auxilia worth using as an Allied Detachment without the named medic and is anything going to change once the Legion Auxilia rules are released world wide? I have them and I do enjoy the tanks of most if not all factions I feel like this army would be a nice support fireline for some more melee focused Legions Astartes or Custodians. Also, were the Sisters of Silenced and Ordo Assassins ever covered? I've seen most if not all of the 2.0 Getting Started vidoes but don't remember them being mentioned. Thank you for the video and enjoy the rest of your week
The only useful allies is perhaps some leman russ vanquishers if you don't want to use legion units to do the same thing.
There isn't any other cost effective unit in the list. Anything positive about these units is said in the context of internal balance. There is always a legion or mechanicum unit that will outperform an SA unit. So only take them if you want to make a softer list or have some narrative or modelling project you enjoy.
Volkites are my favourite weapons in warhammer 40k for the imperium, happy they're useful this edition in a solar auxilia unit. Sad the big cyborg ogyns are a little suboptimal. it's surprising to hear they cost more than cataphractii terminators.
Bought the new boxed aet, started list building... Put said box up for sale.
It's not about being competitive, I find 30k a lot more chill than 40k and much more narrative but I'd at least like to see turn 3 or not spend hundreds on resin stuff.
I’m not going to judge you, but why did you buy the box without building a list first or even checking the rules. Seems like a really impulsive thing to spend quite a lot of money on without looking at the contents first.
@@cogboy3587 I'm relatively new to 30k but I've waited literally years to play Solar Aux as I love the lore and aesthetic they have. I asked for some advice on a Solar Aux subreddit and when I asked "what should I start with?" I was told "get 180-200 standard infantry!".
So while, yes it was an impulsive purchase I think I could be forgiven for not realising I'd need 4-5 boxed sets and that also the contents (Dracosan in particular) are far from useful for what the boxed set costs.
@@toooldfortwowheels2048 You will never be told an honest opinion on Reddit it's all kneejerk feelings and wishful hype train bullshit, being "negative" (telling the truth) is wrongthink and downvoted on that shithole site
Also keep in mind that rules will change over time. No telling when that might happen for 30k, but I’ve enjoyed the beta gammon supplement for my solar auxilia and manage to have fun playing with them.
Auxilia were always gonna be an underdog force in heresy, but I just think there neat
Question from someone who has not started Heresy:
I have the solar auxilia battlegroup, my plan is buying the Age if darkness box for my main DG army and a special weapon kit.
Do both boxes work together?
They "can" work together, but it depends what you want to make out of them as a whole.
Honestly, with all the issues you pointed out and how the list can basically be boiled down to a single kind of list, I think Im going to opt out of Solar Auxilia. I was wanting to do massed infantry using the Macragge thing, but it sounds like the only good option for this army is the Leman Russ and that FA tank you mentioned. On the one hand, it makes sense that tanks are going to do better at killing than infantry, but on the other hand, its a little disheartening that literally everything in the army has to be in a metal box.
Im glad I waited until I listened to this video before buying anything, though, so thank you for this information. I think Ill just re-purpose the 3 squads of SA I have as Stormtroopers for my Rogue Trader forces (using Imperial Guard codex) and call it a day.
I really wanted to play around with massed infantry in those big, 50-man brick formations like in Warhammer fantasy, but it sounds like the list will just do a lot of dying but not enough of anything else. Ah well--perhaps it just isnt for me after all.
Cheers!
Honestly, if you buy into it he is way exagerrating the downsides. Nobody will have enough blast templates to ruin your day unless they pick their army specifically for you. Vehicle squadron rules suck until you are returning fire with 9 volkite leman russes at your opponents 10 lascannon squad. The transport thing is just wrong, there is no ap on the damage, the occupants are only marginally more dead than the more expensive marines. He didn-t mention things like all your infantry being ld 10 stubborn while your hq live. Your Ogryns get instant deathed by medusas but if you have 20 who cares that 2 ogryns died in the short lifetime a medusa has against vanquishers.
Really though you just must not choose a balanced list, because you're balanced list gets eaten alive by a marine balanced list and won't be good enough at anything to beat a specialised marine list.
@@DoddyIshamel I appreciate the guidance. I'll think about it, but it still feels like a fool's errand tbh.
Can someone tell me were to find the rule that is used for coaxel guns making the turret twin linked i feel like im missing it when i look it up
They didn't print the rule in the book, only the entry, like many other special rules in the game. It is easily found in the Imperialis Militia PDF, and states that if you roll a "hit" with a co-axial weapon, it twin-links the main gun it's attached to.
Still waiting on Blackshields, apparently I only have to wait a week
I'll have the full book soon, I have screenshots of it tho.
@@TheOuterCircle I don't have screenshots but I hear Blackshields made out allright
I don't agree with the point on the command squad as the command vox wargear is very strong handing out ld9 to any squad with a vox in I'd insane and it still works if the command squad is inside a transport. I see it as a must have in every auxilia list
step 1 of starting Solar Auxilia:
you dont
This one time, at bad camp, I put a charonite ogryn in my
it's sad that the bigger transport in the solar auxilia is kind of poop, I think from a lore perspective that it's one of my favourite transports available to the imperium. Have to figure out if it's reasonable within the lore but for my adeptus mechicanicus or iron warriors chaos spacemarine warband I have in warhammer 40k might use it. the mechicanicus applicating the pattern regularly and the iron warriors deploying it in limited quantities for their most elite "human" auxiliaries, which might be essentially lost and the damned stormtrooper elements, or might be dark mechicanicus skittari. thinking about maybe using the solar auxilia pattern Armor's for the dark mechicanicus elements if that makes sense in the 40k lore as well, solar auxilia is one of the few area's I lack a more complex understanding of within the warhammer 40k lore.
Yeah I am having a lot of trouble seeing how they work. I think the writers think people are taking 70 percent tactical squads or something. 😄
You should be able to use Rhinos as Aurox. Aren't they the same thing ruleswise?
Last edition, identical, this edition, a little different.
This army isnt really an army its just leman russ and leman russ accessories
I do think you operate on a faulty assumption when you talk about the Auxillia's vulnerability to artillery in comparison to the Legions. You assume that enemies are going to take Basilisks and Medusas, which while effective against Solar Aux generally, are useless in every other matchup. Assuming the opponent is not list tailoring, the probability of running into these units is marginal, as they are as good as useless in almost every game they are taken because of the prevalence of marine armies. The only faction I have seen in my community taking large quantities of 5" template artillery are actually Militia players, on account of their field guns being cheaper, none of my local marine players (we have 20+ active players in my store) bring any 5" pie plates to the table, the meta simply doesn't allow it to be viable, even in casual play.
Secondly I think you underestimate some of Auxillia's melee because it's virtues are not readily apparent, the main one being Veletaris Sections. These are deceptive in two ways, firstly in that the standard Veletaris have Initiative 4 and do not possess close order, this means they can Move the full 4" in reaction movement, and will strike in sequence with most marine units. Against a standard tactical squad a Veletaris tercio will come off as slightly sub par, as they have -1 armor and -1 Strength comparatively, but this is not a serious loss for similar points when we take the better shooting into account when talking about their profile (not to forget the advantages that Tercio can provide in reaction shooting and overwatch, even a Terminator squad will squirm at the thought ofcharging into 120 Volkite Charger shots and 40 Rotor Cannon shots, especially when a single failed save from Rotorcannons could mean a failed charge from pinning. The other aspect of Veletaris which is misleading is the axes, which with Unwieldy seem poor, even with the +2S and AP2, though it's important to recognize that they are in fact Murderous Strike, and I would argue this is their primary virtue making them viable, and which also makes their best case use not one of fighting enemy melee infantry but instead Dreadnoughts and Automata, against whom a 20 man squad has the potential to bring down from weight of attacks and multiple-wounds. On the charge, or with Counter-Charge the squad nets 41 attacks for an avg of 13 hits, for ~2 instant death wounds, netting 2+2d3 dmg which is enough to bring down a contemptor and win the combat. Now, I recognize that this assumes an optimal situation, with the unit getting the charge and having taken no prior casualties, but as players it is within our capacity to engineer circumstances, and having a melee specialist squad which is able to take down contemptors fairly reliably, which I find to be the greatest threat to the faction generally, is very significant, and worthy of note to players invested in the faction. They fair better generally against most Automata, whom have WS4 generally, netting 3.5 Instant Death wounds against Domitar, which again is generally sufficient to defeat the threat posed. Additionally as a large unit, taking up to 5 losses a turn from gravis fists does not present a significant reduction to the units combat effectiveness.
Lastly I think it's important to recognize that the Dracosan plays an important role in moving Infantry Tercios as a collective, as while it is not significantly more durable due to the prevalence of High AP anti-tank weapons, the increased transport capacity is pivotal in moving tercios of 60+ models and ensuring they can retain their formation unified reactions. As a Terra Cohort player, I've found this to be key for getting my squads in position early, so that they can take unified return fire reactions for effect.
I think the element of the SA that needs to be talked about first and foremost is the relative absence of Anti-Tank outside of the Leman Russ Tercio, which presents big problems for players who don't want to rely on 6 Vanquishers to take care of enemy Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts. Your present alternatives are Rapier Carriers, which with laser destroyers are significant, but limited in coverage and speed, and with the addition of the Beta Garmon book sentinels, of which I am dubious given their steep cost and lack of Fearless. The change to Cavalry with the new sentinels is greatly appreciated, as it means my armored walkers can no longer be PINNED(!) for Solar Auxillia, though I hope this change is taken over to Militia Scout Sentinels, which desperately need the love this edition.
Anyways, keep up the content man, Happy Easter.
For vanquisher options, are a couple or more malcador tanks a worthy alternative to leman russes when accounting for their sponsoons, mobility, and reinforced hull? Or do they leave more to be desired for their higher cost, bigger hull, and lack of turret?
@@seekwhen1848 with the points drops to legacies the only big tank I really consider is the Macharius, the Malcador is easier to pen than the russ, and doesn’t have substantially more firepower for a more expensive chassis, which makes it undesirable.
This is so depressing..
So getting four Malcadors in HH1.0 is really looking like a bad decision now
To be fair it was a pretty bad decision in 1.0 too, just got even worse now haha
@@jakubgodlewski9104 they were great in 1.0 pre faq nerf when it was still a super heavy.
Cerveza Cristal!
So.... don't do Solar Auxilia?
🤣
Jesus. This and your addendum video make me think you wouldn’t be very fun to play with. You make nothing sound fun 🙁