Shane Claiborne - Fundamentalism
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- A portion of our interview with author, activist and founder of The Simple Way, Shane Claiborne. I asked Shane to talk about how he feels concerning the polarization of select issues within christian fundamentalism.
What a wonderful man of God. Love it.
The love of God Never compels us to hate, instead it reveals our own sin which gives us compassion for the brokenness in those around us.
Thanks for responding. According to Matthew 4;17, Jesus' first sermon after being tempted was "Repent". Jesus did hang out with the misfits. But He never left them in their state without the warning that they needed to repent. Furthermore, the idea that people need time and space to process truth places salvation in the lap of man rather than on God's Holy Spirit. I'm no Calvinist but John 6: 44 says that no one comes to Jesus unless God draws Him first. We seem to have it backwards in the US.
Both of you are speaking truth by the way!!!!!!! I love it! May Jesus Christ bless you with soooooo much more of Himself and HIS truth!!!!
Your complete knowledge of who I am & what my intensions are from two UA-cam Comments:Thats quite impressive! I am NOT saying its unchristian to look like Claiborne or that looks are important in them selves.What I am trying to say is only:If Claiborne whises to reach out to those Christians who Hate homosexuals. Hate the Sinner not the Sin.He will do a more effective Job if he does not dress as a radical liberal. As this only will increase the chance of prejudice blinding them to his message
We thank you!
Thank you. Yes that was pretty much my point. Not that it is unchristian or wrong in any way to dress like Claiborne. But simply that if he chose a more neutral attaire he would get his message across with much less effort. Which I think is especially true regarding the more conservative Christians....
Thank you for saying it like it is.
May I ask why you feel that way? I don't ask to be condescending in any way, but I do value your feelings.
Now that is true!
If I am getting Shane correctly it boils down to this. Sometimes you can be so Right you are wrong. What I mean by this is I hope that Shane would say that homosexuality is a sin (missing the mark) of what God intended for our lives. In our commitment of sin we not only bring spiritual death unto ourselves, we have seperated ourselves from God becasue he is Holy. Light can not associate with darkness. This grieves Him that we would choose to seek our needs in the ways that are not of him.
Why does he focus only on fundamentalism? Why doesn't he talk about the problems with liberalism?
+ToBeSaltnLight because the interviewer asked him about fundamentalism specifically.
"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion(!) is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry(!)" (I Sam 15.22c+23).
"He's done so many great things": Yes, you pragmatic disciples, "but to obey is better than sacrifice."-
That was moving.
For God so loved the world. That includes sinners. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should be saved. God is above all, a good of love.
Christian Fundamentalism doesn't mean persecuting gay people or bashing people that have had an abortion. Fundamentalism is establishing a core belief around Christ and God's Word. It is not saying "well maybe God is ok with homosexuality and abortion because they are really nice people" it is saying "I stand by what the Bible says about those things but I also stand by loving my neighbour and caring for broken hearted" If someone expresses God's judgement in the Bible then they better at the very least express the love of Christ to the same degree if not to a greater degree.
Jn 8:15 - "You judge by human standards, I pass judgement on no-one." - Jesus, talking to the Pharisees
If Jesus says he doesn't pass judgement then who are we to?
The crux of this video is when Shane says, "This is more complicated than anything I've thought." Like Jesus, Shane is not passing judgement but trying to accept and love all.
While I quite appreciate what Shane is saying, the background music makes this a bit cheesy... Shane is soft and tender enough in himself, the music makes it feel like this is a compilation trying to make people canonize him as a saint before his death ;)
Shane said he "used" to have strong feelings about abortion and homosexuality. This implies he no longer does. The problem, of course is that whenever Jesus made contact with someone, He took care of their immediate need (healing, protection, etc.) but then followed up with 'Go and sin no more". As a matter of fact, His first sermon was "Repent". Also, Paul tells us to "flee from the wrath to come".So simply "loving" someone who is blatantly living in any sin is actually not very loving.
where did you find the rest of the interview?
This is a continuation of prev. post below.
However if we as the Church do not represent Christ as he desires, in love, then we sin.
How can we as Christians behave and create in a manner that says you can not come into our presence until your sin is revealed and condemed.
Please understand I DO NOT accept homosexual relationships and marriages as acceptable in God's eyes.I do accept that we are to represent Christ in a manner of love and acceptance of the person but disavowing the sin.
An ignorant thing is to ignore the verse: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (I Cor. 11:14-15). And: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head." (V. 4). Shane do both in public: A) Cover his B) long & ugly hair with a pirate-veil ... "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)
God desires to draw all men to himself, John 12:32. Not everyone comes, but everyone is drawn. One of the main thematic verses in the OT is - Ex. 33:6, 7 "A God MERCIFUL and GRACIOUS and SLOW TO ANGER, abounding in steadfast love ...forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin" This verse is quoted throughout the OT. Yes, he does punish sin, says that immediately after. But he waits. He calls. He beckons. Please read mt 9:16, 2 Pt 3:9, Ro 2:4 in context. Please & Love the lost 2 God.
The point I am making is merely that it is necessary to have a communication strategy in our day & age & I belive Claibornes is mistaken. Thats my oppinion. If you have a problem with this I do not care...As it is evident from your reply that you do not have the slightest incling of how to communicate with people
It's funny how when I say something against religious beliefs, it comes from a place of hate. However, when religious people say that "God made a mistake by creating gay people," it does not. There is such a double standard when it comes to "respecting" religious ideas because it is assumed that people who do not agree with them are horrible and hateful people. I "respect" whoever decides to believe in God, but I have the right to criticize or voice my opinion against anything or anyone :-)
@Chuichupachichi I'm pretty sure Shane thinks homosexuality is a sin. If you watched through this entire video just to say how outraged you are about him not screaming out how much homosexuality is wrong, I don't know how to respond.
@jwdesign336 No, I believe that is just a homemade hoodie. It looks like a robe because most if not all of his clothes are homemade.
So. What, exactly, IS SC's view on abortion?
I want to repeat that I am no Calvinist. I believe God desires all men to be saved. But nowhere is it even hinted in the Bible that anyone has an open invitation to salvation. you don't wake up one morning and "decide" to get saved. No one does. God must draw you first (John 6:44). After that we must respond (Heb. 3:15). Also, it's not very loving to see a blind man heading off a cliff and not warn them. Love *plus* action. I believe that's the Biblical model.
@denvernfl Romans 5:8. Why die for sinners if you don't love them? Why are we called to reach out and love the unloved if God doesn't love them? If God only loves those who are Christians (and how do we define that?) did He love anyone before Christ was resurrected and the Holy Spirit came down upon us? Just some questions from a messed-up-girl-in-the-process-of-becoming-more-and-more-like-Him Lover of Christ. "All glory to Him, both now and forever! Amen."
his hero mother teresa had some strong things to say about abortion.
@historygooru1 another thing we must inform people is that God is infact angry. i agree with you 100% that God is love. but he is angry at the sinner. it's crucial to explain that since our cultural has such an awkward view of love.
so what's wrong with communities that honor celibate singleness as well as marriage?????
You don't like the idea of loving broken people? Don't you think Jesus allowed prostitutes to work out their doubts and hurts within a safe community?
Its a bit difficult to discern exactly what is his position on homosexuality because he speaks in a vague manner which itself, is not a Christian characteristic. Its correct for Christian ministries to accept homosexuals, just as they would any other sinners. After all, churches have never existed for the purpose of ministering to the perfect. But it seems that what he is saying is that his ministry is accepting of homosexuality. If so, then its ironic that he would speak of
Hey, Jonathan Davis, I'm so excited for Korn's new album!
@propheticimpact ok, so Jesus condemns the Pharisees, usually for making relationship with God too difficult for the everyday folk (for judging them unworthy). I disagree that forgiving sins is "a form of judgement", at least not in a way that detracts from my initial point. Jesus will judge in the end, but for now, this is the day of the favour of the LORD. As for now, Jn12:47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him."
It is incorrect to assume that the outlining of what happens in Romans1:18-24 justifies a "unique consequence" to homosexuality. He is simply outlining what happens any time we make idols of our lives in any area. Swap out the appropriate nouns and you have all other outcomes.
@cm1165 He never once admits that God created them that, he just sidesteps the issue by saying he KNOWS people that think they were created that way. To me, that's is just as bad.
You will always be able to find something to disagree with if that's what you want. You have to understand that it's not about what the world thinks of us. I.e. it's a mistake he looks like that. It's about what God is doing. God's plan will not be even slightly hindered by his looks, in fact, Shane Is even more capable then I to relate to the homeless people and drug addicts. God will use you for His purpose no matter what. He has before and will continuedoing so.
@ServingMyJesus awesome
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's" Matthew 7:5
we should really be worried about what God doesn't find right in ourselves before we call out others for their sins. i believe in bringing people to Christ regardless of what their sexuality is and letting their personal relationship with Jesus Christ work out whatever sin He finds in them. we don't know their hearts so it's not for us to judge their sins.
Let Christian communities celibrate singleness as long as Scripture/new Creation in Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:17) is emphasized. The Christian community is made up of both both single and married people. Thats a given. But this community consists of new Creations in Christ by the Word of God and work of the Holy Spirit. That is what needs to be Honored First! The early Christian community where IN CHRIST JESUS! That was what united them. And you know language is important when explaining this.
@purereligion127 The real issue is that many people can't see their own sin as being repulsive to God. They look @ others & say "your sin is way worse than mine". People divide sins into "big" sin and "little" sin catagories. Pride is the real issue. How would U like for some1 to drag out all of your sins, put them on public display, ridicule & alienate U? Shane is saying that people can live w/out sex-- they can't live w/out love. See Jn 3:1-17 and Mt 7:1-27. What law is talked about here?
I watched and didn't even notice he had weird hair until I came down to the comments and read yours. I'm a pastor in a "main-streem" church. Most people today don't give a rat's ass anymore what a person looks like or how they dress. That is the superficiality that almost killed Christianity.
I disagree. People need time and space to process truth. And before they can process truth, they need to know they are loved. In Luke, Jesus first sermon was, "Preach the Good News to the poor." Luke 4:16 - 22. Most of Jesus' repent messages were to the religious leaders of his day, the Pharisees. Look it up. In Matthew 9:13, Jesus was hanging with those who were religiously unacceptable. The religious leaders rebuked him. Jesus told them that they need to learn the meaning of mercy.
@historygooru1 - Scripture is useful where it is in accord with life and love and there are no flaws in the truth being represented. You have to be your own judge of truth and love when you read anything, even the Bible. No matter how divine a message and how pure the message of God, it ultimately comes down to a man dictating it, there is a portion of the writers hand in the message - without a doubt. God speaks through very deep inspiration - once put into words it takes on human traits
@purereligion127
1) Why is the act of stealing a piece of bubble gum not as bad as rape? Where does the Bible say that some sin is more evil than others?
2) Agreed.
3) Admitting sin is needed daily. Just because we are under grace does not mean that we are now without sin. (Romans 7:19) It means we recognize that God loves us despite our shortcommings. Romans 1-2 is about pride, we have to recognize our sin in this passage, too. Then let it motivate us to love others (1 Cor. 13:4-8).
@purereligion127 He went to a college that espouses a Christian worldview... Did you have a God-given repulsion to fornication, adultery, lusting, any sex outside of marriage of any kind? What about lying? What about greed? Gluttony? Vanity? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...
I send you a virtual handshake and hug :-)
@sarahfarrar1 As one of my favorite authors and someone whom I know a lot about, I can tell you what his opinion on abortion most likely is. He would probably say that life is precious, and abortion must be stopped. But he would want to stop abortion not by legislation, but by Loving and befriending every lonely, scared single mother who is considering aborting, and by exposing the immense lies and manipulation behind the abortion industry.
@cage and @ sky.....why don't you guys just message each other privately and quit dominating the comments section...man....i scrolled down hoping to see some engaging conversations taking place and all i see is this crap.
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone executed for narrow-mindedness outside of your own wishful thinking but I agree with you 100% otherwise. Too long Christians, of which I count myself among, have done all they can to hurt and deny freedom to others in the name of God. It is beyond a tragedy.
i dont think thats his point..yes its a sin but sinners need loves to and Jesus loves sinners
Said what: That in order to communicate effectively with & thus persuade a greater number of the opposition. It is important not to appear as the incarnation of their prejudice & preconceived notions? Well they would be right would they not. As Jesus did not chose to come to the jews in the Roman middle east: Dressed as a Roman. The point beeing that when Claiborne chose to look like an ultra liberal hippie. His message will be lost on a lot of the people he wishes to persuade.
@denvernfl If G-d didn't love sinners, he wouldn't love anyone. We are all sinners, but he sees us as more than conquerers by his grace. If we accept his love, we are saved in the sense that our lives begin to transform because we begin to trust the Love of G-d as life. :) We are saved from destroying ourselves, G-d's "wrath". G-d offers His unconditional love to all of us. We who believe in his love should be embodying that, and showing love to others as well because we are made in his image.
"selective fundamentalism" because being accepting of homosexuality is selecting particular scriptures while dismissing the scriptures regarding homosexuality. Those scriptures are not at all vague. They're straight forward, to the point & blunt. One scripture regarding homosexuality, contains the word "natural". That is precisely the crux of the matter. God created nature & nature's order. Within humanity there are only 2 sex organs... the penis & the vagina. They're perfectly functionally
John the Baptist was under vow of a Nazarite (Nu. 6). Today, time of N.T., there is only the obedience to all the commandements of the N.T.. Jesus was'nt under this vow, and consequently had short hair. Clear? Not? The idea of long hair of Jesus comes of the babylon-(catholik)-church and of Hollywood made movies ...
That's the problem, your problem, because you would say to Jesus the same apologetic: "He was a good worker "'he's even worked with mother Teresa'..." This great Teresa failed in this: "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." (I Cor. 13:3) - YOU HAVE TO OBEY THE WORD; AND THAT IS THE REAL CHARITY (LOVE), and this love will keep His commendements. OK? God bless you, dear "Neutral..." christian...
Somebody loves the Word of God! And @historygooru1 love you bro! Jesus came to love on the sinners, He wouldn't have come to die for sinners who would turn from their sins and follow Him if He didn't first love them! But He also hates sinners because He is an incredibly just God! Psalm 5:5-6 say "The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong. You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors."
@seanpaynedotnet Statements like this show a lack of true understanding of the bible. It is not a book of rules, it is not the word of God, it is a book of words about the word of God. Read it as you should any other book, scrutinize it and understand it in its historical, social, and cultural context. Learn about the writers and who the writings were being read by. Then it will reveal its beautiful story in an authentic and true manner allowing you to become amazingly close to Jesus.
True. But do keep in mind two things: the opposite of homosexuality isn't heterosexuality, it is purity. That's the same thing all are called to outside of heterosexual marriage. Additionally, for those who don't repent and trust in Christ alone for their salvation, there are unique consequences to homosexuality that are detailed in Romans 1:18-24.
The year you wrote that happened to be the same year the ex-gay leaders admitted not one ex-gay Christian in the 40 years of "change" claims actually became heterosexual. Every major, decades-old ex-gay from the US to Australia closed. You can't repent of your sexual orientation any more than your skin color. Sexual orientation is not a choice.
I don't know, Peter, I think you're trying to apply white male evangelical fundamentalist cultural trappings to a totally different culture, in the name of disrespecting "long hairs". Could Paul have been referring to what today would be transvestites? What else is known of "long hair" in Roman times?
Peter: it seems I'm following you on a couple vids (Tony Campolo). Surely you're joking with comments on Shane's appearance proving him a false apostle?!?! Read up on John the Baptist! HE looked more like Shane than a buzz-cut white male fundamentalist! And could 2 millienia of Jesus shown with long hair be a mistake? And how do we know what long hair was to Paul?? A woman's hair is not the same thing as long hair on a man!
If that kind of superficiality almost have killed Christianity. Does this not indicate that it is a factor you should take quite seriously. So that when you like Claibourne try to spread a controversial message. You make sure that your message is the primary thing in focus & distractions like a radical leftwhing appearence should be avoided. Unless of course you think what he says about homosexuality & christendom is not viewed in many christian cirles as leftist blasphemy?
@purereligion127 You miss the point & so there is no real need to continue this conversation.
If only he had not mentioned Rob Bell.
He makes a lot of good points. But it is just such a mistake that he choses to look like that. No main-streem or fundamentalist christian will listen to or take serious any one who looks like that. Looking like that he can make all the cleaver points he wishes but only those who allready agree will listen. Those who do not agree will discard him as soon as they see him and that is just too bad...
@Boutit5150
What do you expect, it's UA-cam. It's the only place those two jokers could vent such piss poor logic (though at least Sky was being polite, whereas cage's already sad argumentation was only magnified by his trollish screaming). Seriously, I haven't seen two people unleash so much sound and fury without intellectual backing like that since the Rottfeller/Thomas debates.
*sigh*
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them." God crushed His own Son to save His people, people who believe in Him and turn to Him. This just shows His love even more that He died and saved those He HATES to show His LOVE. 1 John 4:19 "We love because he first loved us."
We only have to obey the Word of God, of God(!!!), and not to study the roman times...
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? They don't obey the Word of God. "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud" (II Tm 3:2-3).
I think the problem is that too many people assume God exist
@seanpaynedotnet I agree!
I think the issue is some gays or lesbians could live as celibate people, but they need companionship. Not necessarily in a sexual way, but they need something beyond the nuclear family. And especially in the Protestant church, that hasn't been there.
It's not fundamentalism that condemns homosexuality outright, it's scripture. It's disingenuous to hang one's hat on some passages while disregarding others. Shane, like so many others, has made an idol of culture.
And this is exactly why you will never be effective for Christ.
Marce Butler If by "effective for Christ" you mean "deny Jesus by acquiescing to cultural trends of immorality" than I suppose so. But, according to scripture (Acts 20:27), we are to preach the "whole council of God." For the past nine years I've preached in jails, to the homeless, and troubled teens. What rescues these people is not some weak, empty-headed relativism that seeks to exchange the truth of Christ for the approval of our Godless culture--no, what works is Christ, His word, His love, and His Spirit. Homosexuality is a prison; it is a vacuum of darkness and debauchery that destroys those whom it captures (Romans 1). The most unkind thing a Christian could do is lie to a homosexual and tell him that his sin is benign or the creative in tensions of God. That would be like trying to convince someone that the poison they're drinking is healthy, or telling a drug addict that God 'made him that way.' No, love speaks the truth. Shane's conception of love is derived not from scripture, but from the malformed zeitgeist of western culture. How could one possibly preach Christ and idolatry at the same time?
Halleluyah Matt You are not listening to what Shane is saying. Where did Shane say he supports gays or their lifestyle... Our job as christians is to love. This is all that Shane is doing. We are not called to condemn…
“It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict, God's job to judge and my job to love.” ― Billy Graham
Samuel Rivera Hey Sam. I think the 'don't condemn, just love' ethic is either a false dilemma or is begging the question. It's a false dilemma if it is only giving us two options: love (not mentioning sin or being exclusive) or condemnation. But, the New Testament narrative shows us plenty of instances where Christ or leaders of the NT Church are loving (Jesus is always loving) but exclusive according to law and the call to righteousness. The rich young ruler is told to give up his wealth--he is not welcomed in with his greed, it must be jettisoned. So, he walks away sorrowfully. Is Christ condemning the ruler when he tells him that his greed/exorbitant wealth is incompatible with the Kingdom?If you say yes, then love and condemnation are not exclusive. If you say no then you're begging the question as to how you define either love or condemnation, which leads me to my second point: Your suggestion begs the question if it assumes that love doesn't exclude others. You begin with a notion of love that doesn't seem to fit the NT vision. So, interrogating your definition of love (and condemnation) is in order here. Likewise, I must constantly be bringing my understanding of love and condemnation back to scripture to combat my own biases. But, I am convinced that the NT vision understands love as something that is inseparable form God's holiness. That is, I do not love people by misleading them as to God's requirements for righteous living and the damage that sin (homosexuality included) will have on them. Bless you sir.
Halleluyah Matt Thankfully, we need not debate what the NT means by "love."
1 John 3:16 "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us."
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."
Love rejoices with the truth, but it does not keep a record of wrongs. So, speaking the truth in love can't mean condemnation. Love also means sacrificing for one another. So, let us sacrifice our rightness, our desire to condemn, our desire to fix, and let us be free to love. God does not need our help to convict people, and it is harmful to our souls to do so. Live in love.
@historygooru1 God hates ALL sexual acts that outside of marriage. Thus adultary and fornication are just as bad as homosexuality. But the problem is adultary and fornication have become an accepted practice in society including Christianity. If this is not so then Christians would be as vocal about adultary and fornication as they are about homosexuality.
@joseaod15 Well, GOD created weed, and as it turns out, it is one of the most versatile, holistic herbs found in nature. So before you assume you know GOD's opinion on weed, do some research, buddy. And as far as Shane Claiborne smoking weed? He is accountable to his peers nearly 24/7 as he lives in a community home with other ordinary radicals. So you can ask any of them if he smokes weed. Just because he has chosen not to take part in consumerist culture does not mean he must be a stoner. :)
same old "love the sinner hate the sin" crap I've heard all my life. How about just saying that the bible was written by fallible humans and was wrong about homosexuality?
God doesn't just hat sin he hates sinners... he doesn't throw sin into hell to be tormented for billions and billions of years, he throws sinners into hell, where he himself pours out his wrath on them. God loves people hates sinners.
But Jesus told many to go and sin no more. Church is safe for homosexuals, but not safe for homosexuality. We need to repent of of that God abhors. Murder, anger, lust, coveting.... doesn't belong at church. Yet Murderers, adulterors, do belong.
I love you Shane, but softening the message about sin is very dangerous.
I'm pretty sure without sex the human race becomes extinct so in a way we can't live without sex. I like the core of his message but love doesn't always mean smiling and saying everything is ok. He seems to be doing what a lot of christians do which is find their calling and then tell everyone else that there way is the right way. The body of Christ has many different parts and functions.
And how did Teresa fail to do this? you'll never have the capacity of charity that Mother Teresa had...look at your judging words calling him a "neutral" Christian you don't know anything about Neutralmilkinstereo. You don't know his heart so how could u have the audacity to say that? "...Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
Shane Claiborne is a false apostel. Why? His hair and outfit speaks too, and is a sign of radical love to himself and to the vanity. Apart of that, this "prophetic-hair" will be imitated of many young people. Why Shane do imitate a catholic Jesus? The real Jesus had short hair (cf. Paul speaking of the same generation in I Cor. 11:14).
"If not, he may have just "loved" them into hell"...
That statement, amongst others in your post, is ignorant and completely unbiblical. It is love that allows us to repent, the love of Jesus and His Holy Spirit.
You can criticize fundamentalism and talk about it like it's this disgusting thing. But one thing is clear, when it comes to homosexuality, Paul was a "fundamentalist." He was abundantly clear that a believer must repent of that, and that someone who wasn't repentant would not inherit the kingdom of God.
We musn't lie to unbelievers and tell them a false gospel. Is it living in sin just as much to be living with your girlfriend? Yes. Is it living in sin to be unrepentant about having or supporting killing babies in the womb? Yes.
I'm not super down with Shane Claiborne, but he is a well-known Christian and seems like a genuine person. I would urge him to not be wishy washy on these issues or even suggest that abortion and homosexuality are, at best, morally neutral issues. Even if people get offended, we can't preach a false gospel. The truth tends to be offensive. And God promised us that His truth would be extremely offensive to people, because we love our sin.
I don't think he's promoting a false gospel at all. He was saying that people have needs for love and community and the church should be the place to offer love and community to everyone including this who struggle with same sex desires. I agree. I don't think conversation involved whether the lifestyle of homosexuality is accepted or ok in the eyes of God or if the bible accepts it. That debate wasn't apart of the conversation. I do agree with what the bible says about homosexuality but I must agree with Shane that the church needs to be a place of grace or community for those who struggle with same sex attraction.
While I agree that resisting sin is an important aspect of the Christian life, I must say that I am much more concerned with the false gospel that sanctification must happen prior to salvation. It is the Holy Spirit living in us that enables us to live more holy lives. A holy life is not a prerequisite to receiving the Holy Spirit. To suggest that this is so is not to proclaim a false gospel, but no gospel at all.
I'm intrigued by your definition of fundamentalism. I don't think that anyone liberal or fundamentalist is against repentance. The fundamentalist of Jesus and Paul's time were the Pharisees and Sadducees. Those who read their scripture and took the "easy" route of just absolving themselves of all responsibility for the complexity of life and just robotically followed some scriptural rules. Being a liberal doesn't mean that we ignore rules, but just acknowledge the complexity of life and that we take serious the paradox of trying to find God in places and people who aren't the "right people".
Wow, that guy has no buisiness preaching!
Blah blah blah. . .
What utter drivel.