What does Shane Claiborne think about gay marriage?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The social activist and author Shane Claiborne explains his position on LGBT issue. Hear the full interview on The Profile podcast www.premierchri...
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Premier
www.premier.org.uk
Premier exists to enable people to put their Faith at the heart of daily life and bring Christ to their communities. We support people on their faith journey and help them put their faith into action by providing spiritual nourishment and resources.
I really hate it when people don’t give answers. It feels slight of hand. Shane’s non-answer is creepy. I would have a lot more respect if he shared his view and explained them.
Don’t be so cowardly, Shane. Speak your truth unashamedly. You spoke for 15 min and really said nothing.
He basically said he’s sodomy approving.
Shane should be in politics; he sure knows how to NOT answer a question and look really cool, inclusive and loving.
Yea he spent several minutes dancing around the question rather than giving a direct answer.
in other words he's a conniving, dishonest pos.
There might only be a few passages that talk about homosexual behavior, but there are sooo many passages that talk about what marriage is. And marriage between a man and a woman is the only one that will ensure the natural right of a child to have both parents. We are lying to ourselves when we think marriage can be any other way
What sophistry
Absolutely
Take your pick:
“I have friends that are in lifelong monogamous relationships with the same gender, and the fruit of their life looks like Jesus. It looks like everything that I know is beautiful, and I celebrate that with them.” - Shaine Claibourne
“Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” - Paul
Mark those who cause divisions, from among you false teachers will rise up, wolves in sheep’s clothing. Their condemnation is well deserved.
Romans 1:32 is not a condemnation of people who "do those things" nor of people who "give approval of those practices".
But as Romans 2:1 (which is part of the same sentence) against "everyone who judges" because in that you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you're all hypocrites"
As consistent with Jesus teachings, Paul is rebuking the pious self righteous religious people.
So stop raping and pillaging the texts to serve your hateful un-christlike prejudice you viper.
He says the fruit is good in the sodomite “marriage”. Does he even know what good fruit is? The fact they’re living in rebellion against a holy God is what is known as bad fruit. Wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Shane has been a part of my home coming, back to church as a gay man I give thanks for his love. God Bless
I am really baffled as to why Christians have such a hard time with scriptural precepts. Of course we show love. No question. At the same time we are “prepared to give and answer to anyone who asks.” Love people to the point of sacrifice and give clear, biblical answers when asked. Simple.
Shane’s non-answer is indeed an answer. And a sad one at that. The deliberate diversion in bringing up Trump was embarrassing. The man has never claimed to be a Christian. And accordingly, has nothing to do with it. “Hey look at Trumps ethical failures to prove my point!” is a dreadfully insufficient rebuttal.
James clearly says: “not all of you should become teachers.”
He’s Bernie Sanders with some “Christian social gospel” sprinkled onto it. Shane would be very very very offended by the story of Sodom & Gomorrah. Wonder if he’s ever read it...
This brother lives out his faith, not gate keeping the Church with self righteousness. God bless
So do you justify slavery and polygamy this way
Even the discoples disagreed. Look at Paul's diagreements with some of the others.
One of my brothers was attacked by young guys in a very dangerous neighborhood. I found myself in conflict with the teachings of Jesus about loving my enemies and doing good to those who hate me. I told myself that I had to walk away from Christ because I would never love that way. Our emotions can overwhelm us and suddenly the teachings of the Lord are questioned. He couldn’t have meant that I should love enemies or people who hate me, and yet that is what he says clearly. I had to repent and ask God to help me to love no matter how difficult it might be. There can’t be two sovereigns.
If you're willing to dispense with the male and female requirement for marriage on the basis of supposedly scant teaching in the Bible, on what basis do you maintain the need for monogamy or permanency (lifelong duration)?
I think you can look at what forms the best relationship and see the truth
Ah yes monogamy... How many wives did king David have again?
God's word is clear on ANY sexual immorality that those that practice such things we I'll not inherit the kingdom of God. We need to love people that are in sin but part of that is telling them the TRUTH!! We must be honest and full of compassion but we must be truthful or their blood is on our hands! We must encourage people to repent and do the same when we fall short. So tired of hearing people (that profess Christ) with influence not answering the questions or dancing around these issues.
Amen!🙏🏾❤
Opinions and emotions should not determine our doctrine and beliefs...
It’s not complicated at all. The Bible calls homosexuality a sin. Romans 1:18-32
that's exactly correct and this moron show he knows nada about Biblical "love" because it ALWAYS calls people away from sin and towards forgiveness and reconciliation to God by grace through faith in Christ as redeemer. CLUELESS and a servant of SATAN.
The Bible says all kinds of dumb shit
@@danielduvana yeah, well I'd say you ARE THE DUMB SHIT. faggotry is dumb, weird and just effing stupid.
Scripture is very plain Shane.
Disagreeing with same-sex marriage doesn't mean you don't accept people into your church. But the Bible is very clear on homosexuality.
4:34 No. Men practicing homosexuality are not bearing good fruit. I don't know the "Jesus" Shane is talking about but it is not the Biblical one.
You will know them by their fruit. Yes, you will Shane.
One who is walking in darkness (homosexuality) is *not* someone who is walking in the light. The dogmas of social Progressive culture are incompatible with the Bible
Geez, get over yourself. Yes gay men can bear good fruit.Sune actually get to know some gay people instead of making them out to be demons or something
Campolo is 100% wrong. He has relegated the Bible to some old book that has suggestions from 200o years ago and which are no longer applicable. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Doing the old soft shoe in spite of the fact that the scripture is extremely clear on this issue.
Yes, Very Clear. 🙏🏾❤
@@tonnictotaltonnic7545 God, through the authority of the scriptures, instructs heterosexuals, homosexuals, bi-sexual how to fall in step. This has nothing to do with what any of us want to do, or what we feel is right.
@@Hartley_Hare Gate Keepers can be self rightious
Shoes or no shoes, the scripture is extremely contextual and heavily subjective on this "issue". There is no right or wrong in love. There is only love.
Just like a politicians answer I’m baffled after 15 mins
We understand the difficulty obeying and proclaiming the bible, but men of God must answer clearly on what the bible says about these things. This is not a clear answer.
I agree conversation needs to happen, but it’s hard to be apart of a conversation when you won’t say what side you’re on.
Sometimes the conversation is more complicated than just having two sides.
He did state which side he is on.
Often a non-answer is indeed an answer. The Bible is not an “inclusive” book in the sense that progressives wish it would be. It plainly states “narrow is the way that leads to life and few find it.”
It’s no wonder progressives don’t like the Bible. The Bible is about as wishy/ washy when it comes to homosexuality, as it is on lying and deceit.
@@tatumstevens9109 so you celebrate the practices of slavery as well as polygamy, or is that just a modern interpretation you can do without? are you also against women pastors and women speaking in the church?
@@jeremywilliams3465The Bible is not a rulebook you can copy paste across a couple of millennia. Read it in context of a totally different world, but still take it as the only word of God. Not easy..
As for his answering, its like the arguement on abortion, why, with all the science and testimonies we have , havent we got down to the nuts and bolts, in a civil manner, to find a common ground for the good of people? It isn't that hard to dissect issues. If Einstein can come up with the theory of relativity imagine what issues we can answer through faith and logic!
The real question is this: will we as the church accept the authority of the Bible? It's that simple. We will either yield to the pressure of culture or we will stand on what the Bible teaches. We can be loving and stand for truth at the same time.
This verse condemns so-called "progressive" Christianity and their compromise on God's design for human sexuality. Teachings that do not promote godliness proceed from reprobates like this man.
"If anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions, and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth" - 1 Timothy 6:3-5
Abner Aguilar amen
Actually not - first, the fact that you so quickly condemn tells me that you don't have a godly approach to this, and indeed, lends itself to the very issues of which these verses speak. Believe what you want, but be very careful in your judgmental attitude, and if you disagree, make sure you do so humbly and knowledgeably.
@@philjohnson2080 What you said does nothing to this false teaching. Real believers should call it out as we are commanded too. I hope you become more desensitized to this,
@@abneraguilar9906 Show me one verse where "real believers" are commanded to call "it" out. Also, what is "it" to you exactly? Being LGBTQ? Please show me one verse...
@@dankxng If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matt 18:15-17
The Word of God is clear regarding sexual immorality,which it doesn’t only covers homosexuality, but adultery, lust, etc.
The reason why God call us to draw near to Him, is because only through Him is that we can overcome sin.
And the fight is against sin, but not the sinner, I also have friends that are homosexuals, and I love them because they are my brothers and sisters, but I wouldn’t be doing them any favor if I don’t answer to them with the Words of God, humanity have the inclination to try and make fit the Word to our needs instead of being the other way around.
We are told by God to rebuke our brothers and sisters of their sins for their own good, but we need to do it in a loving way, just like Jesus did, we suppose to imitate Him.
God bless you 💜
Well said
Conor L
Hi Conor!
I agree that sexuality as God intended to be from the beginning of creation, within the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, is not a morally wrong or an issue; however when humanity takes the Word of God which it’s unchangeable, and it’s the same that was, is and will be, (for the simple reason that God is not of human nature, so He does not lie or change His mind) and we tweak it to satisfy the wishes of our flesh, we make our own sense of morality, and everything crumbles down fro there, when we think that we can “adapt” the Word of God into whatever we feel is moral we will have chaos and destruction as result, look at the world if you don’t believe this.
That’s our original sin, when Adam and Eve decided that they could be God and nobody could tell them what to do; so we do have free will because God is not a dictator, and we got what we wanted and we became the rulers of this fallen world where we create our own idols and morality.
Sexual morality goes beyond sex, it’s a conduct, the way that we focus on the desires of our flesh instead of our spirit and soul.
We can’t serve two gods, we all have to choose, we serve the world and it’s morality, or we serve the unchangeable God of Scriptures.
We have a rebellious nature so the only way to have a true relationship with the Father is by living a full life following His guidance.
I know that this is not what many wants to hear, trust me, I was one, but I find myself fulfilled since I decided to follow Him.
God bless you Conor, and even if you don’t agree with this, which is your right, know that my answer comes from a place of humility and with the only intent to help 💜
How cool and loving of you to crack on Donald Trump.
I understand Shane’s cautiousness in answering this question about homosexuality. Speaking the truth in love is often very difficult, especially with a microphone in your face. Part of this problems comes from society’s error of equating homosexual behavior with a person’s identity. All sexual behavior is something we do, it is not something we are. The scriptures clearly say that homosexual behavior is a sin - just as they say gluttony, lying, stealing, and heterosexual behavior outside of marriage are all sins; but they are not WHO we are. The Lord calls us all to repent of our sins; and although we may still commit sin, in Christ we can have a true change of heart about our actions; and in Christ we are made righteous, and empowered to walk in His good ways. God’s love strengthens us, His grace motivates us, thus producing the fruit of righteousness instead of sin.
Shane introduced a beautiful truth, celibate priests experience love without sex, many people experience sex without love. In truth, which is more truly satisfying? Jesus came to give us what we all really needed, love; true, unchanging, unstoppable love for each human being - while we were all still sinners. And for us to truly experience the fullness of His love, we much deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him.
Good source of scriptural information on this subject check out Mike Winger here on UA-cam, BibleThinker.org. Mike speaks truth with grace and love.
This is an excellent answer. He points out many non-biblical deficiencies in the church. The cornerstone of Christianity is Agape. The overarching theme of the bible is love.
“If he doesn’t feel the love of Christ in the church, we’ve missed it”.
Agreed.
Yes, but there are specific verses that discuss in a negative manner the issue of homosexuality
You can't say your a Christian then not follow the teaching of God's Word if the Bible says something is a sin... That should settle it for the true believer...
If you think you can pick and choose what part of the Bible you can believe, then throw out the rest you're not a Christian you're not saved for all scripture is given by God...not just your favorite verses that you choose to follow...
"Sola Scriptura"
. . . Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Jude 1:7, Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9
Unless this man Repent of his Progressive Christianity. . .he will be lost. . .just because it sounds good, if it doesn't line up with all scriptures it's a false doctrine . . .Hodos!
To accept gay marriage has nothing to do with love. To speak the truth of the Bible is love.
We can love a gay like any other Christian sinners. To say homosexuality is a sin shouldn’t be a bigger issue than to say unfaithfulness is a sin, we should stop make some sins bigger than others and love like Jesus ask us to do, love everyone. Stop debating on issues that are very clear in the Bible, and use your time to love everyone, first brothers and sisters in churches no matter what sins they have hard time to deal with, because if that was done properly, that would heal and deliver the hearts of many and of society. John 13:35
WON’T ANSWER THE QUESTION, “I can’t be a hater, I have gay friends...”
That's bevause life is not that simple. 'Work out your salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING.' Does that sound easy to you?
@@aguitarcalledchutzpah Some things in Scripture are very clear whether you are working out your salvation or not - not saying you have to be cruel to those who are same sex attracted but Scripture is very clear
How tempting is temptation? Whether it's on a tangible or on a biological, psychological, or physical nature, temptation on a whole isn't a bad thing but it's reasoning carries a much broader reality to it. That reality of temptation still draws from the struggle of the flesh.
The "ISSUE" is the image of GOD. Do men & women in anal/oral/masturbatory/barren same-sex acts, image & glorify GOD in those acts.... and in themselves? Or is their "being" a sacrilege and their "doing" a blasphemy? Sound harsh? The ultimate expression of the judgment of GOD upon sin AND His merciful love for the sinner is the agonizing Lamb of GOD upon the Cross. True love is NOT sentimental.. He sets the captive FREE.
Actually, I admire his ability in this case to be in between, while all the while saying that he has seen what he sees of Jesus in same sex couples. He honestly says the subject is not a huge one in the Bible. I believe he is sincere, and trying over time to figure out the issue. I see God in his spirit. I believe the definitive pro gay affirming position was written in Embodiment by James B. Nelson, published in 1978. I would encourage all open minded people to read it.
Dead wrong Shane! God has spoken!
The Bible is clear on God’s disdain for homosexual practice, aka the sex itself.
But what about love? It is clear in our society that love and sex are two separate concepts, and identity is also separate from these. Is this splitting hairs, or can we admit that this is a complicated issue?
Is it the sex or the love which God finds despicable?
Was there an answer here?
He's evading
So, in your community do don't all agree on equal rights? What good is your love to a gay person if you say, "I love you but don't believe you should be allowed to marry. So, why don't you live your entire life like a Catholic priest without any physical intimacy?"
Some love.
Another non answer, which actually is an answer. For it to be love it must grounded in truth. Of course he brings up Trump which has nothing to do with the actual question. You can have all the conversation you want, it comes down to what the Bible teaches.
He seems pretty clear: I know a couple of the same gender in a long term committed relationship, and the fruits look a lot like Jesus.
I also respect where he says “statements are cheap”; in fact, I agree completely. I don’t think he was being evasive at all - I think he wants to keep the conversation alive. We can only heal when we’re still talking to one another. As soon as I say “No, you’re wrong, you go over there”, I’m no longer in the realm of Jesus.
@@Faithinspiration_channel I couldn't disagree more. Love, compassion, commitment and service. How are these NOT fruits that look like Jesus? In a broken and fallen world, pointing out the perceived sins of others -- or that OTHERS sins are worse than our own -- is a slippery slope. Our Lord WAS adamant -- very much so -- about taking the plank out of our own eye before worrying about the speck in our fellows. That bears remembering. Getting lost in the doctrinal weeds is a great defense against having to do the messy work of welcoming the stranger and the outcast, and loving and helping our neighbors as ourselves.
And I am heart broken over your heretical doctrines Shane. There are no more "conversations" needed, the conversation ended with the closing of the canon of scripture Shane. The gospel is not inclusive, it is actually exclusive of those who reject the Jesus of the Bible. Read Romans 1 my dude, Paul said explicitly that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness. Read verses 26-27 where its clearly stated that God gave them over to what is "dishonorable". And heres the kicker, the "dishonorable thing" is men giving up natural relations with women and being consumed with passion for one another. Oh wait, thats right, you don't "affirm" the entirety of scripture. You only "affirm" the words of Jesus. So my opinion here Shane is that you are not actually as "affirming" as you claim. You actually are pretty divisive since you "divide" Jesus and his inerrant word into your own likeness and image. Im praying for you Shane and praying that truth will reign in your heart.
Shane talks about not affirming every heterosexual marriage. This is not the question at hand. Does he affirm the concept of heterosexual marriage? Yes. Does he affirm the broad concept of homosexual marriage?
What does the Bible say about Homosexuality? God's word has the final say all 66 books of the Bible...
Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Jude 1:7, Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9
Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Jude 1:7, Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9
What about in the other 7 books?
so you believe LGBT people should not own guns?
One of the important principles in biblical hermeneutics is to strive to discover the biblical authors' original intended meaning in a particular text. The meanings of words often change drastically over time. It's also important to try to discover the cultural and historical context in which the text was originally given.
As an example, one only needs to observe how the meaning of words in the English language have evolved and changed over the past 500 years. Old English and Shakesperean English can be like reading a foreign language in comparison to the English language of today.
As an example of how the meanings of words change, over time, the following is really interesting:
Today, someone would be perfectly understood if he wrote to a friend,
"We had hot dogs and Coke for lunch, fish and hush puppies for supper, and then sat around shooting the bull until midnight."
But let that letter get lost for about two thousand years, then let some Ph.D. try to translate it into a non-English language of A.D. 3967. If he faithfully translated the words it might run something like this:
"We had steaming canines (possibly a small variety such as the Chihuahua -Ed.) and processed coal (the coke was probably not eaten but used to heat the dogs-Ed) for the noon meal, and fish and mute, immature dogs (no doubt the defective offspring of the hot dog, with which twentieth-century Americans were so preoccupied- Ed.) for the evening meal, followed by passively engaging until midnight in the brutish sport of bull-shooting (the bulls were then processed into a large sausage called bologna, which sounded like "baloney"-Ed.)."
The reality is that the Christian church has been wrong in interpreting scriptures over the centuries in regards to science and justifying slavery. Christians in the southern United States used scriptures to justify the institution of slavery, and the nation had a horrible Civil War as a result of it. Many of the nation's top biblical scholars have said in past decades that the church is also wrong in how the scriptures concerning homosexuality have been interpreted and taken out of their historical and cultural context. The following is an excellent website in regards to the Bible and Homosexuality.
www.jeramyt.org/gay.html
great analogy - agree with you
@Kevin H. - Agree overall with your main points. Will need a chunk of focused time to study up on the resources / link you provided, for which I am grateful.
Yeah, that slavery ( or women being "silent", for example ) justification through Scriptures is a solid point of intellectual honesty when contemplating how profoundly fallible the Church has been regarding our supposed virtues / ethics / "righteousness". Which is why I don't blame earnest, seeking Atheists/Agnostics who struggle over the hypocrisies of Church History and evils carried out that seemingly too many apologists want to quickly acknowledge then get back to how right their "tradition" of Christianity is. It's beyond frustrating, and believe me, when I've been stubborn to stay in the uncomfortable moment with fellow Christians ( about twisted interpretations or how about garden-variety transfers of pedophile priests away from accountability ), often they get mad. At me! Hey, it's not me, it's their denial that needs addressing. Which also means implies that maybe we got some other things wrong in our traditions as well. Seems like the vast majority don't wanna go there. I get it, but what's the cost? To our souls as well as to our witness, or how about grieving the Spirit?
Some of the ideas expressed in the comments are the reason I am converting to Catholic. I just dont see these types of attitudes in the Catholic church and further to secular Franciscan. I want my life to reflect Christ and His life in as much as its possible on this planet. Lots of love to you, Shane.
Because you want a soft Christianity with bells and whistles but no conviction? Very sad. You need to seek the living God for help, Melanie. He's willing to accept you through Christ.
Yes, the Love of Yuhshua is TRUTH, Objective TRUTH.
To walk with and abide under the wings of our Elohim, then that is to KNOW all His ways.
Understanding, is what we seek, wisdom is what is desired too.
This relationship one has with our creator, or saviour,
our Elhoim, is all bout the Knowing; walking in HIS Light, and not through other systems of the world.
Always be in Love, for it is only through the Loving Kindness that we ALL seek to be 'Like' Yuhshua.
That's what a man on the fence sounds like.
Yawn. Ok man just say you don't want to answer the question and move on. Hopefully you will wake up soon.
At no point here do I hear affirmation. Thanks, Shane for being open to convo... but that's not quite the same as being affirming. I'm sure Shane relies on a paycheck that will disappear with direct answers. But... I don't get the sense that this is ally. Jesus loves, no questions, for those who entertain Christianity. Where's the line that Christians actually love like Jesus?
So was that a yes or no yo gay marriage???????????
Thanks for having this conversation!
So, people come to different conclusions regarding interpretation, conviction, and teaching on said issue, and yet, according to Claiborne, the Episcopalian Church's recent decision on gay marriage and gay ordination constituted an "epic fail." For Claiborne, the principle of respecting differences only applies to those who "are becoming more welcoming." Thus, the "litmus test" as Claiborne refers to it, is only held by those who believe that choices and ideas have consequences. Those who say, "We disagree with you on a crucial principle, but let's just put that issue aside for the sake of unity" - they avoid the accusation of holding a "litmus test." The phrase "love wins" is simply a shabby euphemism for those "lovers", who by reason of their morally superior position, win every theological debate. Those who stand on the highest holy high ground of "love" (however that is defined), are above reproach and their arguments are simply unassailable. As the comment below asks, "On what basis do you maintain the need for monogamy or permanency (life long duration)" for relationships? I am just trying to figure out what the "terms of the debate" are. Clayborne's position reminds me of something that I recently read by Robert Webber, "The liberal worldview, asserting the authority of individual mind, insists on the mythical character of scripture and reduces the Christian message to that of love."
Actually he mentioned the Methodist schism that just happened not the ordination of women and gay priest within the Episcopal tradition.
So........youre simply afraid to say what you think.
It’s just a cop out ultimately. It is clear from scripture, you cannot work out from tainted human’s perspective to the Bible as a leader. He started with the example of the person who has “done everything they could” to get away from same sex attraction… thankfully he didn’t land there, but he didn’t land anywhere. I agree that people close the door too easily, but they are trying to follow the Will of the Father. Matthew 7 is too intense and important to ignore. It doesn’t matter if you look like love or say the right things, what matters is true obedience and true submission to the will of the Father! Knowing God intimately brings us passed all the noise and lies. The word of God is eternal and unchanging. Our understanding of it or lack there of is what shifts. The pro gay Christian arguments all fall short they do not explain the Greek words adequately, they are twisting the truth to fit their ideas. It’s wrong. I have friends who have homosexual desires, others who have turned away from God and those who do not yet follow God in that place. I seek to love them all and bring truth, not lies not conformity.
God bless you all
The problem with institutionalizing homosexual weddings and making it legal...is you are taking a institution from the church an twisting its meaning to represent something that it was never meant to. True marriage, for over 2000 years was an institution of the church, so if their is separation of church and State then why can the state try to take over the churches, institution of marriage . . .if you want to do this thing you call homosexuality why do you want to bother the church about it by hijacking and institution that was given to the church by God himself. Most people interested in this kind of activity will do it if they are married or not. We as believers in the Way of Christ, just want to be left alone . . .and we do not share, our traditions and institutions such as marriage with non-believers . . .Romans 1:25-27 your fight isn't with the church, but with the God of the Church. . . Hodos!!!!
The state isn't taking anything over. No church is forced to marry anyone ever. If your church doesn't accept gays it doesn't have to marry them. Churches can't "take over" and tell the secular world they can't marry who they want. Just don't recognize them, simple.
This is directed towards them that it applies...
If you don't preach against sin ...or quote Bible verses from the Bible...and don't encourage the body of Christ to be overcomers of sin, and to live righteously by faith in Christ Jesus...and you justify some things that the Bible clearly calls a sin...then your not saved!
You are preaching a different Jesus not the one of the Bible. If your interested in a liberal agenda, and christianizing it by using christianese, Christian slang, from a modern Christian society.. .. ..and not Preaching the Gospel of Salvation, or preaching against sin, telling people what Jesus did on the cross, or telling them about Salvation by faith...that the blood can be applied to their hearts by faith and their sins can be washed away...your not very loving...this is the kindness thing you can tell a non-Christian...that outside of Salvation they will burn in Hell for all eternity...
But you have to judge your circumstances first before you can make a decision what is the right way to go...
Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Jude 1:7, Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9
All these verses are New Testament, verses, how many of them have to be saying something is a sin . . .before you will preach against it, and tell people to repent of it...
Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
P.S. You don't ask the World, to Judge the Church, mankind out side of Christ love their sins, they love their pornography, they're drinking, their adultery...so if you ask the World what they think of the church, the church is everything, the world hates . . .or they would come to the light so their sins can be exposed, and they can repent of them . . .and get their hearts right before God . . .instead you preach about what the world thinks of the church as it is a good thing. . .sin will keep you out of heaven, you will ever know when you will have to stand before God and give an account . . .repent of your sins, because the Wages of sin is death . . .in a devil's hell, but the free gift of God is eternal life with Christ in heaven...for all eternity. . .
Preach the Gospel of Salvation to everyone...then preach about works of righteousness . . . But you need to get saved to be righteous, before your good works matters before a holy and righteous God. . . because self righteousness is as filthy rags . . .read these verses and tell me that God didn't mean what they say...sin is still sinful...even if it's not P.C. to think so about this sin. . .
Woman up, Shane, and answer the question.
Jesus when asked about the commandents said we are to love the Lord God with all of our strength and might and love others as ourselves. His emphasis was on love.
Our body is a temple where God resides. A gift of love.
When we make Gods love sensual and its expression in our bodies sexual we usurp God creating another 'god'
Grace and scripture helps us work out a path toward Godliness however once sensual aand sexual acts become the expression of God in us we have departed from the orignal commandment.
Try with all your strength to give God the higher place and ask Him when you fail to help you to do so.
I understand your perspective, but if I may, I'd like to tweak it a little.
The Love for YHWH our Elhoim is concerning the Worship of Him, and Him Alone.
When we abide in the tent of YHWH daily seeking him, his word, talking with him in prayer; all these thing through his Ruach ( holy Spirit).
This is the intimate Relationship; to KNOW him, and in the way he wants us too.
The Human relationship of Love, is set in the context outlined by YHWH when he created us, from the beginning with Adam and Eve; telling them to be Fruitful.
The Context then, of sexual relationships was to be between a man and a woman in marriage.
YHWH created the beauty of love, physical expression and intimacy, (see Songs of Soloman), within the context of marriage your good to go. Honouring each other within the context of marriage, is what YHWH ordained.
Anything outside of that, is quite simply Sin: Leviticus ch 18.
Shane makes many good points here, such as emphasizing love as Jesus did and Jesus' instruction to look at the fruits of people's lives. Some groups in the Christian church are so focused on sex that they have tainted young people's view of sex and are unloving towards those who don't agree with their interpretation of scripture. Their unChristlike behavior has turned people away from Christ and they have hurt and rejected those who are LGBTQA+, something Christ would not do. The lack of certainty bothers people who want everything about God in black and white, but we are limited in our understanding of God and God's ways. The culture in which the Bible is written did not see homosexuality in the same way it is practiced today which he mentioned. Shane emphasizes looking at non-essential issues in a non-dualistic sense and being open and respectful. Jesus didn't vet people on their beliefs before he healed them or ate with them. Why do people care so much anyway about homosexuality anyway rather than sins that Jesus actually mentioned that harm other people and recoil back on them, like judging others?!
@Ναζωραῖος I have :-)! That's why I said what I said, and why I know it wasn't one of his biggest topics and that he was politically incorrect according to the religious and political leaders of his day in identifying with poor, sinners, prostitutes, etc. and not with the rich & powerful and judgmental religious leaders and in showing strength through weakness, self-emptying and compassion.
Def bigger issue in the white church than in the black church where the fundamental rights of being treated as an equal human being having God-given rights to pursue life, liberty and happiness are at the forefront. Makes me shake my head ....
God says this is a abomination. That all there is to it. Love mean you want the best for the person, not allowing, or excepting thier SINS.
Homosexuality is all about blaming God. "God made me this way"?? Stop blaming God for your sin. Come to Jesus and he WILL set you free if you want to be set free. He will not go against your will.
Let the Holy Bible be your guide.
The bible is very clear on homosexuality.
Who cares? The Bible is a collection of ancient texts. It’s full of errors and immorality. God of the Bible endorses slavery and rape and murder. Don’t use the Bible for moral guidance
It’s also very clear on women speaking in church, women having head coverings, men with long hair, slavery. And which Bible was that? The English or the Greek and what did “arsenokoitai” actually mean?
Also how come the same passage that Paul uses that word he also condemns he greedy and yet greed is almost considered a virtue in some Christian circles these days - just asking.
The Bible is clear. God's plan is clear. Woe to those who would lead people astray.
Who the heck cares what Shane Claiborne thinks?
Lots of people. Who cares what ancient homophobic men thought?
This guy is dangerous
Why?
Yes another apostate plus he supports the one world religion pope
@@kM-ij2ly that's absurd. Shane is a true believer in Christ, and follows Yehusa in action, word and deed.
@@kM-ij2ly were you aware that Shane and all group of believers went into Baghdad before the US bombed and invaded, and they helped with the victims in the hospitals?
I used to have his books good works doesn’t mean he is not apostate
He is dangerous into ecumenism which leads to the one world religion
He is dangerous theologically
Really disappointed with his wordy "non-answers". Truth is typically pretty succinct. Somebody talks for 15 minutes about something else than what you asked them, it's usually because they don't want to answer the question. Not impressed
What a waste of time.
Much a do about nothing.
This cult is going away.
Good riddance.
Sexuality is not something that a single book is able to fully comment on. The Bible also does not condemn homosexuality, those are actually issues of translation and hermeneutics.
Mr Claiborne would benefit from reading the March Lignonier Tabletalk devotion on biblical marriage.
As long as Shane doesn't have the same idea of sexuality as Biden, then he's doing all right. Having a more similar take as Trump would be an upgrade. ( Both are not great models. )
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, respect to him in being a bridge-builder and not making a cheap statement in Team Politics of the Church. When both Conservative and Progressive communities want him to "make a statement"...or else...then it reeks of manipulation and Identity Politics. Idolatry, perhaps?
There is revelation that comes to us in the heterosexual union -- a dialectical process. The homosexual relationship lacks this and by its nature cannot build the future.
Clever response
The Bible justifies, slavery and poligamy, I do not the think modern Bible readers see God Justice being served in those practices. For all those who see no place for a more open understanding of scirpture
False. The Bible never condones slavery. The Bible never condones polygamy. It is because of the hardness of human hearts that God tolerated these things. But from the beginning neither was the intention of God. The Bible dies not always endorse what it reports.
I don’t really like his perspective. It’s just “oh it’s fine because there are only 7 verses in the Bible on it.” That’s ridiculous logic. The Bible is so entrenched in heteronormativity that it’s insane. That’s because God made us male and female. I wouldn’t let him speak if he said he affirmed same sex marriage. That sends people to hell.
You definitely should exclude people from church with this. This is a sin issue. And one that is very clear.
"I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women."
2 Samuel 1:26
@@dankxng Hi Paul, my love for God surpasses that of women as well. In this context, I would say that their long enduring friendship surpasses their love for women. You are reading homosexuality into the scripture.
@@dankxng OK so what’s your point in posting this verse? To somehow suggest that David and Jonathan were involved in a homosexual relationship? This is what’s wrong with our culture. We can’t possibly believe that two men can have a deep spiritual and emotional bond with one another and it not also be sexual. This is ludicrous. We are superimposing our cultural norms onto the scriptures and interpreting them accordingly. Sexual love is in no way implied in this verse.
The “social activist” title should tell you to run.
Looove this!