(Think before foam)Spray foam and Asphalt shingles don’t mix, Spray foam Asphalt shingle killer!
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2019
- [Think before foam]Spray foam and Asphalt shingles don’t mix, Spray foam Asphalt shingle killer.
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In this video, we are rolling up our sleeves and doing a bit of leg work. We are going on two asphalt shingle roofs, one with spray foam insulation and the other with non-spray foam insulation. We are looking for the effects that spray foam insulation has on asphalt shingles. We will then compare the two separate roofs and asphalt shingles. We are hoping this helps you get a better understanding of how insulation and ventilation have an effect on your roof’s health. I am also bringing a camera with us on the two roofs, to give you a close up so that you could see the effects for yourself. As a bonus, if you are having roofing problems and have spray foam insulation or if you are thinking of buying a house with spray foam insulation, I’ll tell you how you could potentially get a new roof installed absolutely free at no out of pocket cost to you! No catch, just facts.
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Aurum Roofing is a Full Service Residential and Commercial Roof Repair and Replacement Company. Serving Williamson, Travis and Surrounding Counties. 5 Star Rated with an Excellent Track Record for Customer Satisfaction. We specialize in installation of all roof types and materials, which include Asphalt Shingle, Tile, Metal and TPO Flat Roofing. We offer Free In-Home Consultations and Estimates backed with our 100% Customer Satisfaction Guarantee. Call us today for your Roofing Repair and Replacement needs and we look forward to working with you!
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ive been roofing for over 20 years, the only thing i seen was a bunch of cheap 3 tab 15 year shingles that in high temp zones tend to fail in less than ten years. Put a quality 20 - 30 shingle in that deck problem solved.
No .. I disagree with that opinion .. no SPRAY FOAM FOR ANY OF MY CUSTOMERS IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH SHINGLES UNDERLAYMENT PERIOD . 30 years experience
@@1980Elplacerdeviajar its not an opinion its a fact, if you can't see that in the clip then you need alot more time under your belt before you do ANY roof inspections.
Was there soffit and ridge ventilation in this case?
3 tab are to begin with, cheap asphalt shingles. builders get the bargain bin of this category where the amt of tar/bitument to shake is 1:5 vs 1:3 in mid range shingles. the shingles should seal more the higher the temp until they get above a manufactures max temp, which is still well above the max temp a roof will bake in the sun in new mexico/texas for example. builder roofs are always bottom of the value barrel unless there has been stipulations made between buyer and builder for specific product.. and even then should be inspected afterwards.
@@erdene-ochirmijid4040 exactly. Didn't see ventilation. That's the issue. The created a closed box. This can happen with ANY insulation. Not that foam causes* this.
You should have a conversation with spray jones.... he goes into the science of why spray foam is not the killer of shingles. Literally goes over a bunch of study’s and research that’s been done
Spray Jones needs more subs so people hear his expertise.
ua-cam.com/video/hJTDvDPtF0A/v-deo.html at 3min, Only 2.7% difference between vented and unvented shingle roofs, biggest difference is white shingles reduced temps. by 20%
@@safffff1000 light colored shingles and roof exposure are more important.
I wouldn’t leave this to opinions , NO SPRAY FOAM IN VAULTED CEILINGS FOR ANY OF MY CUSTOMERS PERIOD .!
Lol that’s a logical fallacy..... don’t trust peoples opinions on trusting peoples opinions...... this cat in the video is literally just talking from his opinion..... spray jones case study’s and science.....
This is interesting. Thank you for sharing your observation. I just did 50-year shingles over a sips roof. Hope it lives long!
Paid for spray foam insulation and got bullshit 3 tab shingles. Buy the good ones.
I hate to say it, but even the best asphalt shingles can't handle spray foam insulation. Spray Foam and Asphalt shingles don't mix!
Arch. shingles would do the same Texas temps are brutal.Thirty year shingles don’t last in the southern belt as they’re cocked in place and get brittle even without foam.
What about using a spray foam just for the roof decking? (attic still uses venting, and blown in insulation... spray foam used as a way to mitigate roof deck rot).
Thanks for the info.
How about torch down modified bitumen roofing directly on plywood with closed cell insulation underneath?
please consider reading building science research, these situations have been researched and litigated over and over plenty of science on proper application and use of foam insulation
I think the message here is that if you decide to spray foam your roof attic, it will void the warranty of your roof asphaltes. Even if this problem observed on the video was not the due to spray foam but other factors, he is still correct that it will void your roof warranty and better to find asphalt that will warranty it even with an unvented attic.
@@trevino37 not all companies void warranty..
The foam industry seems to be playing the same research-funding game as drug companies. They're funding studies that set conditions that tilt the results in favor of foam. The reality is that, if your attic permits, blown-in or batting insulation of the floor makes more sense than trying to insulate the entire attic with foam in the rafters.
Should it be sprayed at the bottom of the roof trusses , , the the roof vents , Right??
I like the recauk/adhesive fix. Basically glue the loose shingles down
Agreed.
So if you had an attic fan or attic fans that were thermostat controlled (meaning the attic fans hit a certain temp & kick on & stay on until the attic’s temp drops) with also having a spray foam attic installation, wouldn’t that work? Can you prove &/or provide the exposure range at which tar shingles start to break down?
No, because the attic is now underneath the spray foam. You would have to cool the roof above the foam some how.
Have architectural singles on my garage roof-40 years. Still looks good but getting brittle and few have 1/2 blown off. Think they are a 240lb asphalt
Which two manufacturers allow non-vented roof decks and or spray foam insulation you referenced in your video?
What are the manufacturers ?
Thanks! Never even thought about the type of insulation being used and it's effect on the roof tiles. ❤🎉
I’ve always questioned spray foam for this reason. If a 2 inch wide vent was placed linear on a gable roof soffit with a 2 inch thick air gap between the roof rafters all the way to the ridge with a vent. Would that be adequate for ventilating shingles? (2x2 on each side of the roof rafter with a 7/16 osb nailed to separate the foam from the roof decking.) Just a thought I had, because Owen’s Corning sells the vented pieces that go from the soffit to a vented attic, so when installing attic ceiling insulation it doesn’t block air flow.
This guy needs to explore spray foam on the roof deck vs. Attic floor and vent vs unvented. Current studies show roof deck spray foam in an unvented sealed attic has very little effect on heat gain on the roof. Shingle color and roof exposure are much more important.
Vent your roof - it just works.
also, not added was the crappy way builders are building- compromising integrity of roof
@@flinch622 Venting roofs in an urban/wildlands interface zone creates fire issues. I don't want a vented roof.
The catch in that "current studies" claim is that it tested "an unvented sealed attic." When the attic itself isn't insulated, good sense means it should be vented to get rid of the excessive heat and moisture. Like spraying foam between the rafters, not venting an attic leads to excessive heat and a shorter shingle life. Both are foolish.
If it caused damage due to more heat absorbtion when installed in more mild climates, then the heat alone in extreme hot climates using the same brands of roofing would cause damage, so I don't buy it
Can you do a video on how to qdd cheap ventilation on existing shingle home. Ty
Try this video from our channel. It's free and very helpful you can do these steps yourself!
Instant Attic Cool Down- 3 ways to Cool your attic down Instantly
3 easy Steps- ua-cam.com/video/gz7eKrdnQQE/v-deo.html
Would you recommend radiant barrier insulation. I live in Orlando Florida which can get pretty hot.
Good question.
I've been in plenty of attics with radiant barrier and I do not notice a negative effect on ashpalt shingles (at least here in Texas). Mostly just spray foam insulation is what I would be more weary about. The only down side I would say about radiant barrier is that it is a little intense on installing it because of 2 reasons mostly 1.) It's very difficult getting the rolls into the hard to reach areas 2.) It's very hot to work in the attic, this time of year is the best time to do this type if work Fall or Winter season. Forget about installing it in the summer time you could get seriously hurt. Good luck! Please feel free to contact with any further questions or concerns.
Installed right, either a radiant barrier (with insulation) installed over the rafters or attic foil stretched between them is a major plus. They create a chimney effect that quickly moves the heat from the roof shingles upward where it vents out.
For practical reasons-I am not longer young enough to deal with ladders in attics-my attic foil only extends up about six feet but even that is impressive. On a really hot Alabama day an IR gun pointed at the foil channel will read about 120 degrees. Pointed just above where the foil ends it will read about 145 degrees. That's 25 degrees less heat spreading over my living space. At the lower levels, all you need to install it is some scissors to cut the foil and a stapler to put it in place.
There's a UA-cam channel that deals with the advantages of attic foil. www.youtube.com/@AtticFoil
Thanks for this video. As you said, no one else is saying this.
There are so many sources that contradict what your saying. This kind of hysteria that is baseless and not verified. I had a home with shingles in good condition that were loosing tabs and it had fiberglass insulation.
Hi Robert, There are many sources that Also contradict what your saying. As mentioned in the video this is our opinion that is it, this is a trend that we notice. Roofs with spray foam insulation always tend to have shingle damage. Spray foam is always the common denominator. Spray Foam and Ashaplt shingles don't mix!
Me to
You flipped this info upside down.
I like to see actul temperatures difference on shingles.
You said, you have a problem with foam spray insulation. There is study at Illinois State University that is difference of temperature between ventilation roof and non ventilated is 0,7 celsius. So guys read more before doing anything. Peace
Thank you for your input.
I suspect that study was fixed. You cannot contrast a ventilated roof with an unvented one because there is no standard ventilated roof. There are dozens of ways to properly ventilate a roof and dozens of ways to get it wrong. The resulting attic temperature will vary enormously.
Mine reaches 140 F on hot days because before I owned it a roofing contractor installed a pitifully inadequate ridge vent. The one over garage is twice as long as the one over my living space. And as a result the attic over my garage is far cooler than that over my living space, roughly 120 F. That's a heck of a lot more than the 0.7 C found by that Indiana study.
In fact I could easily create a ventilated attic whose temperature is almost identical to the typically cooler ambient temperature. Simply install powerful fans at each end of the attic and use that to draw the hot air out. Make the fans reversible and run them as fits the wind conditions. That's be a ventilated roof and it'd beat the socks off any unventilated one.
yeah but a 30% increase based on color of the shingle, plus with dark shingles the entire attic gets as hot as the south side so 2.7% increase in temp is nothing depending on the color choice or the orientation of the house.
I believe you. My house is only ten years old, and my roof failed from granule loss before any of my neighbors. You could see the fiberglas edges of the shingles within the first five years of ownership. I just couldn't wrap my head around why. Same builder, same shingles, same age. Only after I started learning about the effects of spray foam on shingle life did I realize that my house was originally supposed to be a one story with a large attic, however the builder built a bonus room with lofted ceilings in the attic space essentially closing the vast majority of the attic off with no airflow under that large section of roof. Mystery solved. I do believe that spray from, with a dehumidifier under a metal roof would be awesome for energy efficiency.
Thank you for your comment! I do believe that might help your situation the only thing is that if you have an HOA I recommend you get there approval first, the last thing you want is to invest all that money and energy for nothing. Spray Foam and Ashaplt shingles don't mix this is something that people are slowly becoming more aware of this fact and yet the foam industry is in such denial.
Whoever roofed that house that's falling apart installed it wrong. I'm looking at keyways that aren't halfway across the tab below it - it's like an inch from the keyway below it, and they creep - it's almost like they tried to install it like a dimensional. If they got it THAT wrong, there's bound to be tons of other faults with the installation. It probably leaked from day 1, but nobody knew because that spray foam held the water there. That decking is gonna be gone soon enough ...
Oh yeah - so the point was that even though it probably never should have been spray foamed to begin with (most houses don't gain any benefit, only the drawbacks from spray foam) , that's not even remotely the cause of that roofs failure.
as long as there are baffles connecting the soffits to the ridge there should not be any issues.
Can you use a metal roof on a spray foamed roof?
Yes, I think this is your best roofing material option for spray foam.
This is not so much against foam insulation then it is against asphalt shingles. I’ve done a few asphalt roofs in my life and a few steel. A steel roof is so much more superior and sustainable. Ive noticed ww2 hangers made 80 years ago that are still dry and in great condition with the original steel roofing in Washington state where it rains forever.
@@rm742 always screw into the apex not the valley. It’s counter intuitive in a way but it helps.
@@rm742 for seam roofs the hardware is not exposed and will last for as long as the roof.
@@rm742 no
@@alexandrep4913 no to what?
Hi. Are you mainly talking about spray foaming the underside of the roof deck? But you can spray foam your attic floor, right?
Not sure about the floor. In this video we talk about roofing only.
Yes you can spray the space between ceiling joist .. that’s safe .. but in my opinion I would never spray between roof rafters ..
Spray foaming around the joists at the floor of the attic is a different issue. It won't destroy your shingles, but it will still be a pain to remove or to work around for issues such as electrical wiring. Foam is used in rafters because it will stick overhead. Beneath, that is not an issue, so blow-in cellulose is easy to install. You can probably do it yourself with a blower loaned by a home improvement store. And if you need access to your ceiling, it can easily be kicked aside.
Wherever it goes, a key problem with foam is that it is a pain to remove. Not so blown-in insulation. It's only downside it that it turns to mush when it gets wet, so I would not use it close to the soffits on the eaves. I used fiberglass batting there.
Sounds like spray foam and a metal roof is the way to go then if you cut air flow in the attic. Would you agree?
It would definitely be a better option than asphalt shingles. Agreed!
There are cheap shingles and there are expensive shingles, That's why you need a metal roof
Metal roofing screws need to be replaced every 10 to 15 years. Roofers tell you the metal will last close to a lifetime but conveniently leave that out.
@@coachbluepill Good thing my metal roof has a 50 year, lifetime warranty
@@coachbluepill our roof is over fifty years old and no problems with holes whatsoever
@@pnhnut have you ever had to replace the roofing screws?
@@SirD1 not so far
I have installed hundreds of roofs. The choice is clear. If you can afford spray foam, you can afford a cold roof. If you cannot afford a cold roof, don’t use asphalt shingles. Lots of other systems out there.
What do you mean by a "cold roof"? An airgap?
Yes.
@@musicteacherbuilder How about on a flat roof with torch down modified bitumen? White, granulated surface?
Your argument would seem plausible if every tab was curled, but it’s just the bottom left corner of the left tab. I suggest that they’re junk shingles 😎
Of every spray foam roof I've ever been on? They can't possibly make that many junk shingles.
What roof deck? Also why are the shingles not offset 6”?
6" off set is a good point. I was actually thinking that the other day on how common 5" installs are compared to 6" off sets on 3 tab shingles. I do agree that if 3 tab shingles were installed on a 6" off set they wouldn't have as many issues as they do. Good point. But this doesn't take away from the fact that spray foam effects asphalt shingles. Spray Foam and Ashaplt shingles don't mix.
thanks for the info. What do you got on metal roofs with no moisture barreior?
When using spray foam insulation metal roofs are a better choice than asphalt shingles.
I think you have to talk about that brands of roof shingles are out there
Thank you for this video. I was roofing for over 11 years. I tell builders and spray foam installers the same exact thing you showed here and they always tell me I am wrong. I tell them they make foam baffles, staple them between the rafters and then spray over that to have an air space. First the shingles get baked on then the plywood goes fast! Trying to pry plywood off spray foam is a bear! Thanks again.
Do you think that leaving that gap like you say and keeping the ridge vent open allows the spray foam to still be an effective insulator?
Is this a problem with a modified bitumen torch down roof directly over plywood as well?
It's a problem with asphalt materials in general. Modified bitumen is an asphalt based material.
Thank you for your comment but unfortunately some prefer to hear "facts" from "real" scientists rather than actual roofers who see this everyday.
@@AurumRoofing Yes, I know. That's why I asked. However, you seem to be saying that unless the shingles are made for the specific application they can't withstand the heat without de-laminating from the shingle below.
Is a torch down roof going to have any issues? Have you seen a problem with that type of roof? If so, what does it look like? This is the first I've ever heard of this problem.
Been using closed cell under asphalt roofs for over 20 years with excellent results. The currrent science backs up having a proper closed attic vent system versus open .
Nothing to say you cannot ventilate a spray foam roof. You just have to create the ventilation space before applying the spray foam.
Agreed
Your findings are very interesting indeed.
Since spray foam on the underside of roof decks has proven itself to be beneficial to the inside of the home. Given your findings it would suggest that improvements to shingles or a different roofing material is needed.
I'd be curious to your findings on the effects to the felt, ice and water shield if any and the roof deck itself on these roofs.
I'm also curious as to the effects of a leak to the spray foam. Does it waterlog? or given the heat swell ? No effect? I don't know.
Thanks for sharing your findings.
cheers...
Thank you for your comment!. Your questions are all great questions and are all required to have very detailed answers but I will do my best.
1. Your question in regards to underlayment effects.
A. Since underlayment is not commonly brought up I'm glad you did. A growing trend that is closely following spray foam is the use of synthetic felt which in a quick summary is not a great idea. We wrote an article on our website that goes more into detail I recommend you check it out. aurumroofing.com/uncategorized/synthetic-or-felt/
(synthetic vs felt, war of the underlayments)
Basically, think about you and a random stranger stranded out in the middle of the desert and are each given one hat to choose from, one is a plastic hat and the other is a paper hat, which one are you going to cover your head with? (Paper/traditional felt right?) Synthetic (plastic) is a very hot material. Again it's more into detail on our website linked above.
2. Waterlogs...
A. Absolutely, spray foam is a compressed/compacted sponge it's made to absorb water. If for whatever reason you do get a roof leak it's very hard to notice it and when you do notice it your plywood and rafters have already absorb so much water it's scary, I've seen roofs cave in because of the soft and damage roof decks that these "sponges" can cause.
3. Roofing materials...
A. Asphalt Shingles and spray foam don't mix! Spray foam I personally would never install on my own home . There are many simple and cheaper ways to help cool down your attic by simply having the right guidance which is also on our website (linked below). We talk about a few very effective free ways to help cool your attic down without having to break the bank I also recommend you check it out, literally all you have to do is open your garage door aurumroofing.com/uncategorized/diy-instant-attic-cool-down-3-steps/.
Hopefully this covered all your questions please forgive me for jumping a bit off subject and for the misspelled/typos as I let my wife drive us back home from our weekend trip just to allow me time to respond your questions over my cellphone.
As always please feel free to contact us with any further questions or concerns you may have.
Cheers:)
@@AurumRoofing - Thank you for your response - I'll check out your linked pages.
Hope you had a fun trip.
cheers...
@@AurumRoofing I really applaud your efforts here. Thank you for your continued activity!
Do you even UNDERSTAND the difference between open and closed cell foam and where it's appropriate to utilize it? You don't based on your comments that show your lack of quality experience on roofing jobs. You need to look at scientific evidence and research that prove you WRONG. But hey, since you don't even differentiate between open and closed cell foam I've wasted my time here. Keep up with hyping your "Gold Standard" pimpy $$$$'s.
When applying spray foam, you should apply a plastic sheeting over the studs, wether it's a roof or wall. If you spray it directly on the outside sheeting, if you have to replace it, now you have to replace the spray foam as well.
There is a proper way of doing unvented attics, what you showed here did seem to be the improper method.
Essentially you create an air gap between the shingles and the roof deck. This creates the ventilation you need for the shingles while making the attic conditioned.
Joe Lstiburek created the method and had some great videos about it.
Great video, just a question what happens it’s you attic have a/c ? Same problem? Thanks I thinking about foaming my root but now I don’t know, and my shingles have like 10 or 15 more years of live
Those shingles look really cheap, I bet Owens Corning Duration shingles would hold up with spray foam insulation.
Hi Oldkid6, thank you for your input, they may hold up pretty good, who knows... but the fact is that when the prefabricated seal that come in Asphalt shingles break because of heat exhaustion, it's only a matter of time before they blow of too. All asphalt shingles are similar to a paper clip, with a broken seal and the shingles constantly flapping because of high winds it only a matter of time before any shingles break no matter the type. Asphalt Shingles and spray foam don't mix.
@@AurumRoofing I believe you, I just got a new roof and I wouldn't risk it. Plus the cost and hassle of having that job done isn't worth it. Here in Florida it gets so damn hot and humid, not to mention the amount of rain we get weill eventually do damage.
Agree, those have to be the cheapest shingles out there with like a 5 year life.
I cant even remember the last time I saw a new roof installed with the old tab stlye shingles, everyone's going with the architectural shingles around here.
Thumbs up, but: In Alabama, I'd worry about the wood rot from condensation beneath the shingles (or metal) with direct foam applications. What do you think?
Also being in Alabama, I agree. Our state's combination of summer heat and humidity make spraying foam in the rafters a particularly bad idea. I've had good luck with cellulose blown in the attic floor. And if there's a leak, I want to be able to find it without ripping out yards of foam.
I got some issues with your video, You dont show the underside of the roof, what the roof decking is. So we are taking your word about the sprayfoam that is actually sprayed on the roof decking. Now around the 5:35 mark you say the attic was supposed to have attic ventilation then go right and say the attic is supposed to be sealed against any air intake or exhaust, so which is it. Now you might be saying you want a vented attic which brings air from the soffit vents and out the ridge vent. Most attics are getting in the 130 degree range so where is the savings for the shingle there. the sun is baking it from the top and the ambient heat from the attic is baking it from below, at least with Sprayfoam the attic is conditioned and its not baking from below. The sun is doing the majority of the damage to your shingles and not foam. Funny how the shingle manufactures are also Foam Manufacturers as well. Certainteed and Owens Corning have Foam, When they come out and say dont use our product on roofs then i would believe it.
Every nail is incorrectly installed
Take you a few cans of spray rubber lift and spray and press down, or better yet, get a metal or stone roof.
Put a air gap in first, then spray . ??
This video is correct in stating that Asphalt warranty is voided if you add spray foam to an attic roof. Regadless of the fact that sray foam will not shorten the life of asphalt, it is a fact that the warranty is voided if spray foam is added to an attic roof with shingles that is warrantied for ventilated roofs and attics. These are just the facts. check out the spray jones video on SHINGLES AND SPRAY FOAM INSULATION. The article he quotes, explicitedlt says that manufacturer only warranty their shingles on ventillated roofs and attics. THESE ARE JUST TRUE FACTS PRESENTED BY BOTH SIDES.
Thank you for your input.
I don't think that's accurate. Neither Certainteed nor GAF warranties contain any mention of spray foam exclusions. Certainteed requires that the installer make "special attention" with permeable cellular foam in an unventilated system. But not a word in either document disclaiming warranty.
Hell my shingles didn’t seal like this and I didn’t have spray foam under them! Didn’t have ridge vent just 2 small gable vents and some turtle backs.
Yes, that can happen too when you don't have the proper ventilation system for your attic. Most Asphalt Shingles can't survive without ventilation because of the amount of heat they are forced to absorb. Here is an article from our website that will help you with attic ventilation as well as give you a few tips on cooling your attic down. Good luck!
aurumroofing.com/uncategorized/diy-instant-attic-cool-down-3-steps/
I really appreciate the feed back and info...thanks!
No problem. The biggest problem I have with spray foam is that it doesn't allow for ventilation, all vents including soffits get covered with spray foam which in turn goes back to not having ventilation. Asphalt Shingles need ventilation.
@@AurumRoofing A Black shingle vs white has a 27% increase in temp. A south facing shingle has a 14% increase in temp. an unventilated roof only increases the temp by 2.7%. So that's the cause of shingle deterioration? that's the data. that's the facts. It's just not true. If it were the shingle companies would stop making black or dark shingles. They were just looking for a reason to not honor the warranty.
@@JHilty yes, this guy has it figured out. Common sense doesn't seem common anymore eh?
The best option for spray foam against the roof is metal roofing with a 3/4 inch air gap between.
isn't the gap covered up when the spray foam is applied?
@@SirD1 the gap I mentioning is between the metal roofing and the plywood. Not in the attic space
Diamond metal shingles from Canada. Steel, aluminum or copper.
Bigg Time!!!!!!!!
I initially was thinking you were going to sell some BS reason... BAM knowledge shared successfully. Well done Sir!
Not just spray foam. Any heavy duty 5/4 foil backed HD foam panels under plywood has same or worse effect. I had a roofer replace my 20 yo cedar shank roof in very hot Redding,Ca. He used Certainteed architectural 270lb . Big job 20k+ in 2002. Looked beautiful. One year later the bottom of all the tabs were dripping asphalt. A rep from CT out of San Francisco came and said it was a bad manufacture batch and they replace the whole thing. I told him what I told the local distributor about the roof construction and insulated components underplaying the roof. He gave me same answer. No problem. Two years after the replacement the new owners same problem. Don’t know what happened after that ( $45,000)
It's unfortunate this happened to you. The life of that house and it's plywood sheathing is now in a costly situation. What's makes matters worst is most manufactures do not take full responsibility for these malfunctions in their products. People really need to understand that yes, what's beneath the plywood does matter and yes like mentioned in this video 2 years is about how long it takes for any roof to show bad symptoms. Thank you for sharing.
im guessing it was Wait roofing or Benson roofing. they were famous for hiring collage kids with no experience and calling them roofers, we replaced dozens of there roofs every year. Every thing from not installing flashings , shiners, blow through, miscut books, 2-4 nails on shingles that required 6, under tightened screws along with screws and nails in the valleys, just a total shit show.
Spray Jones has it down to a science. However, This does not disqualify this video's data. Spray Jones never talks about ashphalts approved for Spray Foam but does say that a new roof should be installed before spray foaming. I dont see the harm in finding the correct ashphalt for spray foamed roofs if that actually exist. However, With Spray Jones data, I cant see how this effect is from the spray foam and not attributed to other factors. But at least this is an additional idea to look out for as well. All I;ve learned with Spray Jones is that spray foaming is not a stand alone project. if you spray foam the roof, you should install a new roof to get a water and air tight seal that works together. If you spray foam the interior walls, you will also need to install an HVAC to balance interior home ventilation. One without the other, is a disaster. SPRAY FOAM is not a stand alone project for sure.
Thanks for the info!
Well it's not sprayed directly; like in the clip you borrowed for example it's sprayed on baffles that allow for air movements behind the sheathing.
I don't believe that was an apples to apples comparison. The worse roof looked past its life expectancy and not due to the spray foam. 3 tab asphalt is just garbage and is going to fail before the manufacturer stated life. In fact any asphalt shingle will not last it rated life. I used a 3 tab on some barns about 25 years ago. 20 year rated they lasted 10 before they started to fail. Although 2 of them are still in use they should have been replaced 15 years ago and if they were some type of building that needs a 100% leak free roof they would have been replaced already. I will only use concealed faster metal roofing now as I don't want to replace roofs every few years. Also steel is 100% recyclable can't say that about asphalt.
These roofing companies love asphalt because they know you will be back for a replacement soon. Planned obsolescence.
I'd you have or are going to get spray foam put metal on it. For best rusults use battons to raise off the deck not because it needs to be but because it's better, thermal break. Also make sure you use high temp underlayment on the deck before the air gap. You can add another layer of plywood or just battons. You can also add exolation before the battons too for added thermal break and insulation.
Also look up spray Jones on UA-cam and see why spray foam is not the cause of the bad roof in this video.
i dont see a ridge line vent
ASPHALT SHINGLE MANUFACTURERS DO NOT PUT ENOUGH STICKUM ON THE SHINGLES TO HOLD THE NEXT TAB DOWN .
AND SHINGLE MANUFACTURERS BUILD THERE SHINGLES CHEAP.
I don't agree whatsoever. My experience has been the opposite of your findings. I would NEVER build a house or renovate a roof without closed cell. The energy savings with foam are unbelievable.
My first house was built in 1987 with a vented roofline and closed cell iso foam covered by quality shingles. It tool 23 years before I felt the need to replace the shingles, somewhat spurred by damage from falling branches.
My next house was purchased 13 years ago and had no vent and hence the sheeting was rotted. I took the entire roof deck off the house, added all new sheeting and the entire underdeck was sprayed with closed cell iso. Still no venting so it's a "dead" roof. It was covered with a quality shingle. Here we are all these years later and it still looks fantastic. Every shingle is flat and no sign of shingle cooking whatsoever.
Thank you for your opinions, your comment is greatly appreciated. Maybe with your testimony along with the other homeowners (either for or against sprayfoam) can help others make a good decision for their needs.
The houses all of a sudden started rotting down and all of a sudden the government quit giving them low interest loans and then the homeowner had to fix their house
1. We see here the problem is a combo of cheap asphalt shingles, Texas heat but is that attic vented or not? Before the foam install, I believe vídeo referenced 5 yr life so far, comparing both roofs?
2. You can vent a spray foamed roof… just like you would with other insulation products. If Theres no mechanicals up there, then why not? That’s one of the biggest benefits.
3. I think we’re solely blaming spray foam when it’s a combo of factors that go along with that.
Funny because other info says in zones 2 and 3 it's not a problem
Dodd agreed. The Op is uneducated or has posted “click bait” material. It has been proven the Op’s opinion is wrong.
@@Pipe-Layer to clarify, are you stating that ‘hot roof’ and ‘cold roof’ designs for homes with unvented attics bear no difference on the life span of the roofing material?
@@stefanleonte3155 depends on the insulation. Sprayfoam performs better in unvented attics when applied to the roof deck. If u apply spray foam to the attic floor u will need to vent the attic.
I’ve always been suspicious of asphalt shingle manufacturer requirements for ventilation. The face of the shingle is the source of the heat. In the midday sun, a roof can get too hot to touch. The underside of the sheathing, where you would apply foam, never gets that hot. I don’t believe any common sheathing material is capable of pulling a meaningful amount of heat away from the shingles.
It’s not hot because the heat radiates into the attic which in turn heats the ceiling of the rooms below by means of convection.
If that were true, your attic would not get hot.
Good vid my friend. My mother in law wants spray foam in her rafters/attic and I think it's a bad idea. She has no gable vent though
she has a ridge vent. I'm not convinced her roof is ventilated very well. I say put the blow in insulation in and be done with it. She lives
in northwest Indiana where the winters are sometimes brutal and summers are very humid. Any thoughts?? Thanks
Hello. Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, Texas and Indiana are two completely different climates. I would recommend you have several local professionals who may be more familiar with your circumstances and consider their professional recommendations. Although, I must say spray foam is not something I would install on a brand new asphalt roof simply because the risk of failure is more likely. On the other hand, if her existing roof is a bit older and will soon need replacement, it may actually be a good option, just makesure the new roof is spray foam tolerant.
Hope this helps you.
No shingles in the new house we are building, I want something that lasts. Spray foam with a standing seam steel roof for me. And almost no new homes in Texas are built with spray foam, I don't know a single production builder using foam, they are going for the cheapest possible building material. Blown in cellulose or fiberglass batts with production grade shingles.
I don’t have spray foam on the back side of the roof decking because we have hail storms. When decking has to be replaced along with shingles, spray foam is not very cost effective when decking is being replaced due to hail damage every 5-7 years.
Good point.
That may solely be the difference between a vented roof or non vented roof. Matt Risinger did a spray foam but he framed it to essentially have a dual roof deck and should he have done that with asphalt shingles it may not have the same result. Would be costly to do it the way he did as a retrofit
That’s because the attic needs to be conditioned if it’s sealed up with spray foam.
This is not accurate.
@Joshua Reece_ Could you be a bit more specific please?
@@AurumRoofing Sure I can send you enough research it will take you weeks to read if you want.
@Joshua Reece- Thank you very much for your feedback. Although, I think We did mention "we don't have any fancy scientists, research doctors or labs, this is what we see in the Field at real customers houses". I'm sure there may be research papers that say otherwise and may disagree, but unfortunately this is a very noticeable pattern that many of us Roofing Contractors can agree on. If spray foam isn't a concern to Asphalt Shingles, have you wondered why most manufacturers void their warranties than?
But yes, please. I'd love to read what you may have.
I wish you luck in your in your business. Provide an email and I will send you all the reading material you could ever want. Does your roofing shingles of choice only come in light colors or do they come in dark colors as well?
@Joshua Reece_ Our email address is on or profile page. Thank you!
We also post information and how-to roofing video's I'd like to personally invite you to subscribing to our channel.
I’ve been both a roofer and a spray foamer, the problem is asphalt shingles, asphalt shingles are a terrible product and should not be used at all in the industry, the only reason they are is because they’re cheap and it’s a lot easier to teach someone to install asphalt shingles than something like a steel roof
Wait.
Where are the vents? Looks to me like the issue is they didn't account for disappearing the heat from the attic space. Not that foam CAUSES this...but improper roof design did.
grasias
De nada! Muchas gracias por su apoyo.
It puts allot more heat onto the shingles.
Worst part is leaks. You won't know until it is bad. And good luck finding it.
I would say roofers see more problems because of spray foam than anyone else. Hvac loves it. Nice clean attic . Don't have to worry about insulation of duct so much.
I want to condition my attic.. but to do it right.. you need a secondary roof.
Thank you for your input, it nice seeing people are beginning to notice the negative effects that come with having spray foam. Yes, leaks are usually detected when it's a little to late. Spray Foam absorbs a ton of water, next thing you know you've got a sponge in your attic rotting away your studs, plywood, shingles ect...
Only open cell foam holds water. Closed cell is to hard .
Good to know. What type of spray foam insulation would you say is most commonly used?
Attic ductwork is perhaps the only valid argument for a conditioned attic. My ductwork does run through my attic. When I bought the house it was exposed, giving my expensively cooled or heated air only a R-7 protection at best. I dealt with that by adding an extra layer of insulation around the flexible ductwork , making it about R-14. Then I blew in 16" of cellulose, giving even the tops of that ductwork another 4" of insulation. On top of all that insulation, I placed attic foil to bounce off the radiant heat. Testing the exit temperature from ducts on a hot day that does seem to work and without the hefty costs of a conditioned attic.
The attic foil alone gives about a 10-degree protection. You might look into stretching that attic foil between your rafters to give the heat-channeling effect of a secondary roof at a fraction of the cost. You can find that explained at: atticfoil.com
Good tips! I had no idea that foam insulation could affect asphalt shingles. Thanks for sharing!💯
Thank you for being honest. Vented roofs seem to be the best method with a ductless hvac system
And yet other info says non vented is preferred
@@doddgarger6806 All non-vented, and super air-tight house systems require an air circulator, creating another problem and system to eventually fail. All these creature comforts come at a cost just because people are more sensitive nowadays.
sounds like metal roofs are the way to go
Forget shingles set metal and forget it...my customers are dealing with this very problem now. It's horse shoeing all the shingles.
I just paid for my third house to have the old crappy insulation taken away, and open cell spray foam sprayed between the roof rafters on the roof deck. Unless it is done wrong, this is one of the best things you can do to your home. Young man, you are very misunderstood and uneducated with this product and method. Btw, spray foam has been around since the 50’s.
Good luck. We are only sharing our opinion and what we see on a daily basis.
LOL, this.
You put OPEN CELL spray foam in your roof? I sincerely hope you mistakenly typed that, and meant CLOSED CELL? Open cell spray foam is, as the name states, open, and is not waterproof or water resistant. Under no circumstances should open cell spray foam be used in building envelope (roof or external walls) applications. Closed cell foam is a completely different product and is intended for application in areas that may be exposed to water, as it’s closed structure makes it waterproof. I really hope you had a typo and don’t actually have open cell spray foam in your roof!
@@stefanleonte3155 Except open cell will allow the water a place to drain rather than puddling on the roof deck creating more problems. Also you don't know what type of roofing material the original poster is using and the structure of the roof. So I think you don't have enough information to determine anything.
@@agisler87 Open cell will soak it up like a sponge, never to dry out, rotting the entire roof structure anywhere near where the leak is, creating mold / mildew issue too. Closed cell will trap the leak in a much smaller area. I personally don't really like EITHER sprayed in the rafters, because it's not really clear how it's going to work out in the long term, and there are serious drawbacks to foaming the roof deck like that - but open cell is BY FAR the worst of the 2 to use in that application. It will NOT leak through, it'll soak in like a sponge, and turn a baseball size of decking rot into a 3 foot diameter hole where the rafters are ate up too.
Metal roof
So roofers did not install the correct materials for the build shown, most likely the subdivision cheaped out on the roof materials and it's not even the roofing companies fault as that's what they were hired to install.
spray only increase roof temp by 2.7% compared to shingle color which increase the roof temp about 30% and I bet this dude has no problem selling black tomdark grey shingles. Plus the spray foam creates a studier roof reducing deflection and bowing under heat and since it cools the attic the shingles even on the north facing roof get nearly as hot as the south facing shingle if they're a dark color, plus you house gets hotter andd you spend more for cooling.
this dude really needs an education
Thank you. I had always hesitated to foam my roof because I was worried about overheating the shingles. I appreciate seeing it first hand. I may spray foam the attic floor now.
So, if you use asphalt shingles you CAN use spray foam, but you need to choose a product that supports an unventilated roof and spray foam.
That's a lot less shocking than the title and how any informed consumer would approach using spray foam or not against a shingle roof (or even buying a house that has both already) IMHO...
Any way, I always appreciate real world experience and observations, especially when the person providing it has nothing to gain from the view that they are giving you.
yeah we have those same kind of shingles..........they never stuck well as they were low quality. They were guaranteed for 25 years and lasted nowhere as long as the OEM said they would. They never had enough tar on the bottoms to stick or adhere to the lower shingles like they are supposed to. I've had to replace countless patches of them and apply roofing tar to the undersides to get them to stick properly...................... This guy is just trying to capitalize on a poor product and blame it on the foam I think. He's just doing the usul scare mongering tactics to drum up more work for him and his buddies...............you know the old adage : Den of thieves, TEAM PLAYER..........I
I believe you negated your first reason. Shingles by home builders are the cheapest you can get. So more likely that is why shingles fail, not air. And air would not be a problem in any case anyway because of the tar paper installed under shingles don't allow air penetration either.
Shingles made now a days are pure junk not much adhesive on them unless u buy super expensive shingles go metal instead save yourself the headaches. Shingle Companys are trying to save money by skimping the customer by poorly made shingles.
This is an old video, in my experience, if you have water leaking into your house you have much bigger problems than the spray foam. (Dont blame the spray foam for rotting your roof, blame the roof leak) cheers 🍻
The initial tabs you are lifting are improperly nailed. High nailing interferes with the seal tabs. Nails could be seen that were over driven and where the gun was angled as well. The lack of sealing also can occur in cold temperatures where dirt and dust interferes with the seal tabs prior to sealing. In general the work you are showing is defective construction. Perhaps you will eventually comment on those serious contributing factors, but at 5:45 I am out due to a lack of confidence in your conclusions.
The most important fact is that roofs made out of Asphalt Shingles must have air gap between roof decking and any type of insulation . Otherwise air condensation will create moist humidity that will root plywood and make almost any asphalt shingles roof to fail PERIOD .
What about a flat roof, modified bitumen torch down? In other words, closed cell spray foam, 3/4" plywood roof sheeting, torch down roof? How does moisture enter into the equation if both the roofing and spray foam are water tight?
I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions. I have inspected thousands of homes and seen many more failures of three tab shingles on a traditional insulated roofs than on spray foamed insulated roofs. You would need to show me building science to change my mind.
Age is a factor in what you're seeing. Spray foam is a recent fad, so the harm it does has not yet had time to appear. Also, I don't think anyone is claiming that foam in the rafters gives cheap shingles a longer lifespan.
You will also see fewer Rolls Royce cars having car crashes.
Asphalt shingles are outdated we don’t use those they are cheap fiberglass it’s not much more last a lot longer but you are correct the heat generated does shorten the life of shingles great for metal shingles or metal sheeting roof
I’m 90% sure that all manufacturers have now approved their shingles to be used with spray foam
This is not accurate the temp difference is very small versus vented and unvented roof. check out the research quoted at: ua-cam.com/video/hJTDvDPtF0A/v-deo.html
The shingle manufacture will use spray foam as well as anything else to avoid paying a warranty claim. There is no proof in this video that the lifting of the shingles is caused caused by the spray foam. Spray foam has been used for many years. All so note in this video that at last some manufactures do accept spray foam under there warranty, if it were an issue then no one would warranty there shingles. This video needs proof as to why these shingles are lifting.
Peace… Shalom… Salam... Namaste and Thank You so much for All that you are doing to Heal our Mother Earth 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ 🌷 ❤
Been saying this from the get go
Dude, even a battery powered leaf blower can blow 200+mph at a medium setting. 125mph-150mph wind coming out of a battery powered leaf blower at the lowest setting. C’mon broseph!!
You couldn't tell those shingles were not sealed at all??
Then I won't be using shingles. Steel roof sounds better anyway.
Who the F uses 3 tab any more
Your conclusion certainly sounds logical. The sun beating down on a roof generates an incredible amount of heat. Some of that heat gets dissapated by by the air gap of the sheathing and the fiberglass insulation.With open cell foam in place there is no place for that heat to go except back into the shingles, essentially baking them.. Shingle manufacturers must design a shingle to work with open cell foam insulation and building codes must be changed. A home is a complete system and all parts of that system must work together and compliment each other.
Absolutely, I like to compare the shingles to a slice of bologna. The bologna curles when over heated, 99.99% of roofs I walk that do have Spray foam all have curled shingles. Even my neighbor, (who is asked to be on this video but didn't want to) had spray foam installed after his new roof and had a perfect roof but now 2 years later his roof is completely shot. Curled and lifted shingles everywhere. The only thing that's protecting his roof from high winds are his next door neighbors and that his house is a one story. I tell him that if he lived on a corner house or an open field ranch house or even a 2 story his roof would be completely gone. Asphalt Shingles and spray foam don't mix!
Metal roofing is the way to fly.
When using spray foam insulation I agree.
@@ds29912 More expensive to start with but a much longer life span when properly installed, higher fire rating (lower insurance cost).
@@SuperSaltydog77 not really more expensive to start. The high cost associated with it is caused by using the more expensive styles on the market. My roof cost me $1.25 per square foot.
Thanks i chance my mind I do regular insulation thanks again
Agreed!