Cimmerian September 2024: Raided by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- The Robert E. Howard Show
Cimmerian September 2024
A reading event dedicated to Robert E. Howard’s Conan.
I mentioned this video by Grammaticus:
• CONAN the BUCCANEER......
The cover artist for the Lancer Books edition of Conan of the Isles is John Duillo. He did many covers for Men's Adventure magazines in the '60s and '70s and later historical Civil War and Western paintings and etchings. You can see many of his covers on Rich Oberg's web site. His wife Elaine Duillo was also a prolific artist for hundreds of book covers, mostly Gothic and Romance. She is best known for being the first artist to feature Fabio in her cover paintings.
@@monnierobinson9210 thanks!
After having a great time reading vol 1 (del rey) last Cimmerian September and loving it, I’m looking forward to vol 2. at the very least!
Michael, you and I are of like mind, my friend. I will join you on this perilous quest to revisit these books, but I fear what that dark road might lead to.
I gonna get City Of The Dead and give it a shot. 😊
I first came across Conan in 1966, I think it was when I was in the Army. It was Conan the Conqueror in and Ace paperback. One of those double books, paired with the Sword of Rhiannon by Leigh Brackett. There was a kind of a glut of sword and sorcery going on back then, so Conan didn't particularly stand out to me. Since then, however, I've grown to appreciate Howard more and more; greatest pulp writer ever indeed. You should try some of his westerns some day.
Dang! I jumped the gun on this event by a couple weeks. Good stuff Michael. I'm really looking forward to your take on all the pastiche stories!
There is always room for more Conan 😎
I am fairly new to the literary Conan - your videos have been so helpful in getting up to speed on what is original vs pastiche and where to start. I've begun reading the Del-ray volumes and buying up lots of these other older books as well to read once I get through the originals. I could listen to you talk about Conan and Robert E. Howard all day so please keep up the great work!
4:28 Yes, that's how I first came across Conan as well. Those 12 books were published by Sphere here in the UK, and I bought the whole lot of them in the much lamented 'Dark They Were and Golden Eyed' book and comic shop in Soho in London back in the late 1970s. Great times
19:28 King of Aquilonia surely! 🙂
I remember Dark They Were! Great times indeed.
I've heard that de Camp's other works are fine reading, but I've only ever been hard recommended on Lest Darkness Fall and The Reluctant King. It'd be nice to have the Carter & de Camp Conan pastiches in a collected volume.
According to Richard Toogood in his book 'The Conan Companion', Bjorn Nyberg was an officer in the Swedish Air Force who wrote Conan stories to improve his English.
Hello Michael and Roger. I've been waiting for this video eagerly. Thank you for your time and ceaseless efforts to present to your audience the best quality videos. I so much appreciate your work. There is absolutely no way I can ever repay your admirable literary efforts . Best wishes
As you said in another one of your videos, it's a great time to be a Conan reader. Thanks, Michael!
I read the 12 Conan paperbacks in the early 90s when I was a teen. Howard, Burroughs, etc we would've been best friends if we grew up near each other as kids! I loved the same stuff. Great channel.
@@jeremiahalexander2852 thanks!
That "Conan of the Isles" cover was by John Duillo.
Just finished reading The Complete Chronicles of Conan on ebook which had compelled me to buy a Frank Frazetta poster. The pastiche story I like the most is The Thing in the Crypt.
The first Conan book I read was Conan the Freebooter. And, yeah, even as a new Howard reader, you can tell when things aren't quite right. But, man, I used to catch heck from the purists for having the Ace books! I don't know what they expected me to read, since getting original Howard works back in the 90's was not easy. Back then, you just kind of had to make do with what you had. Now, it's not hard at all to get your hands on the original books, and it's best to go in that direction. But back in the day, the Ace books were some pretty solid sword and sorcery fiction. The last time I read those books was in '96, but I remember Beyond the Black River was solid, since it was only Howard work. And Conan the Freebooter was ok, since they tinkered the heck out of it.
I would say that anyone that hasn't read Conan from Robert E. Howard should give those stories a chance. Most people think of the Conan movies or the comics. But Howard's work is far more deep than it gets credit for. And, as much as I like a bunch of Howard genre's, I would have to say Conan is on average Howard's best work because he seemed to dabble in Conan more than most of his characters, so you can see his different styles showcased as he moves along. Queen of the Black Coast is just a magnificent story that has some deep philosophical thoughts that most people wouldn't expect from "barbarian fiction."
As much hell as I caught for having the Ace editions, they got me into the deeper works, so they have a soft spot for me. De Camp might not have done a great job getting Howard to the public in original form. But he did get these stories out to the masses in some form to read. So, I can't hate the man. If these editions hadn't caught the fancy of the reading public, Robert E. Howard would probably just be another lost pulp writer that a handful of people remember.
I've only experienced the pastiches as they were adapted into comics. That said, those stories were amongst the most epic issues of Savage Sword of Conan and King Conan. I recently read the Conan movie novelization and it was not bad either, so I might consider giving pastiche a chance. Ultimately, only what REH wrote is Conanical. Sadly, he did not live long enough to tell all of the barbarian's adventures, so it fell upon others to do so. Just think of the nearly one thousand issues of Marvel, Darkhorse, and now Titan Conan comics that we would have missed out on if the purists had won out...
I've likely read all of the conan stories over the years, but I'll likely start rediscovering them soon. I've got a fair few Conans by other hands so I'll join you in Septermber
I would agree that Conan is his best work on average -- almost all of them are good, and a bunch of them are great -- but my top 5 REH tales only has one Conan story in there. Worms of the Earth, Pigeons From Hell, The Shadow Kingdom, The Tower of the Elephant, Wings in the Night.
Due to copyright issues (I have no idea what the issue is), the Del Rey set of Conan books are not easily available in Canada. I do have that Complete Chronicles hardcover though, which is good enough for me. I've been hearing nothing but great things about City of the Dead, so I'll have to pick that up. And, if anyone can explain that copyright problem to me....
Another Cimmerian Triumph of a video! I hope you have a lovely time on your holiday, Mr Michael. With any luck Roger won't cause too much mischief when you are away. 😁
Excellent, I can’t wait, I going to get ready by put out of soundtracks of Conan the barbarian while i start to pick two things, a Conan novel and comics book ( don’t know which one…yet) and I’ll going crazy………….sword and sorcery, heavy metal yeah
Michael K Vaughan is a Harley on the Highway of Fiction!!
And Roger is Sleazy Rider.
The current plan for me is to at least read all the ebook novellas that Titan has published. I'll likely read City of the Dead as well, if I don't go back to the Lancer/Ace books for the rest of the month.
Just reread Conan of Cimmerian and Conan the Avenger thought they were great fun. I'm a great fan of Carter for sheer enjoyment. His Terra Magika books make me laugh out loud . I came to Conan via Thongor who is Conan/John Carter combined. My favourite Carter books are the green star books ( or Carson of Venus) and the wizard of zao which is not without some theological depth!
I was introduced to Conan as a kid through the movies and it was much later I realized he was based on pulp stories and even later I read the pastiche novel by S M Stirling and was so surprised. I had been dipping my toes in the fantasy for the first time in years and it was the first fantasy book that held my interest. Than I went and read a couple of the original stories and they were amazing. Conan was such more cooler and interesting in the stories than in the original movies I group with. They are amazing between the weird monsters and sexy princess and bad as warrior women it was like nothing I read before. And Conan is such a more deeper character than he is in the movies. I am so happy I read his story.
Cool! I literally just last week read the Marvel version of "The Hand of Nergal" by Thomas and Buscema. They did an excellent job with it, as always.
The Robert Jordan Conan stories from the 80s are the best ones that Howard didn’t write. I didn’t mind Sprague De Camp and Lin Carter's stuff. I read them all as a teenager and it was a big hook into fantasy for me
I just finished Wheel of Time and am interested in reading more Jordan! Would you recommend his Conan novels?
@romelmartinez4591 The Conan stories are the best Conan stories not written by Howard. I also enjoyed his historical fiction series where he used the pen name Reagan O'Neil but they were re-released as Robert Jordan writing as Reagan O'Neil. Great story about an Irish immigrant in the south leading up to the American revolution.
@@christopherbataluk8148Awesome! I'll check them out. Thank you!
I look forward to your thoughts on these. I've read the original REH stories, but I've not read any of the Camp or Carter stuff. For myself, I think I'll read the two most recent pastiche novels of City of the Dead and Blood of the Serpent. Ill also try to read some more of the comics that I haven't gotten to yet from Dark Horse and the original Marvel years if the new printings of the Omnibus come out in time from Titan. Looking forward to it! Also, have fun on your trip! It sounds like it'll be amazing!!
Just recently found your youtube page and really enjoy your style and commentary. Bravo sir. Just must ask two questions, on your bookshelf, I noticed a John Carter of Mars. Is this a Omnibus collection of all the Barsoom novels ? Do you know where I could buy such a collection ?
Thank you
I'm getting geared up for Cimmerian September. I'm probably going to read Conan and the Spider God by De Camp. I haven't read it before, so it'll be new to me.
It’s a shame Neil Young didn’t write a song entitled ‘Cimmerian Girl.’ Or did he?
Good plan - I haven't read that one - or the Poul Anderson one 🤔
It looks like your Cimmerian September will be interesting!
I'm reading pastiches as well. My big three authors will be Robert Jordan, Poul Anderson, and Karl Edward Wagner. After that I will read whatever pastiche piques my interest.
I can't wait for September!
I enjoyed both authors takes on Conan.
I cannot believe it has been a year. Read the originals last year. I got the centennial compendium. Also the audio book compendium on Audible is great. I also grew up with the mix of stories, and you have me wondering how they held up, and the nostalgia aspects... Has me wanting to re-read...
Michael, if any Italians gives you a hint of flack for for reading Conan of the Isles in their plazas, call them uncultured. ;p
I only have book 6 of this Frankensteined pastiche set, but I do have City of the Dead, and maybe I'll give that a read since I've heard only good things about it. I should maybe go easy on the pastiche since I'm not through the original Howard stories yet, but I think it can illuminate what works so well about the originals. I just read the second of the Titan comic trades, and am still impressed with it, just disappointed it has a cliffhanger wait for the next trade.
I used to have all those books. Alas. I’m still working on the original stories in the three volumes. Volume two for 2024.
The best pastiche is Karl Edward Wagners Road To Kings
Looking forward to this. There are a few DeCamp books on Kindle. I just got the new King Conan Mezco figure. So I’m starting at the very end, with Conan of the Isles. Perhaps work my way backwards.
🎵 It’s the Robert E. Howard Show! 🎶 I’m going to read from The Bloody Crown Of Conan for Cimmerian September!
Hi Michael, before I forget, I have something to ask you. There is a slight debate around whether the word Cimmerian is supposed to be pronounced with a soft C or a hard C: Simmerian or Kimmerian. Most people say it with a soft C like you do because that is how it gets pronounced in the movies. Others use the soft C because they think the word is supposed to sound similar to Sumerian.
The proponents of the hard C argue that the word Was derived from the Greek Kimmerioi (Κιμμεριοι) as used by Homer and then converted into Cimmeria sometime in the 1500s.
I use the soft C but for completely different reasons. The first time that Howard uses the name Cimmeria (as far as I can tell) Was in a palm by the same name that he wrote before his Conan stories. I read somewhere that he was on vacation in Southern Texas when he wrote this poem. To me, that landscape always looked like the Rio Grande valley. I can picture Howard sitting on a chair and staring at Mexico across the river while scribbling some lines of verse. In Spanish ,the name would definitely be pronounced with a soft C like cerveza.
So here is my question for you. Will you please ask Roger what the proper pronunciation should be?
I pronounce it like "khy mary in" it fits better for alliteration " Conan the khymarin " vs " Conan the simmarian " both Conan and crom are pronounced with hard C's and doesn't fit with the"SSS" of simmarian. Although your crevasses Idea has intrigued me.
I got the first book. My friend gave it to me
I also got the Freebooter book
Our Conan paths run parallel, Michael: I first encountered the Cimmerian via the Marvel comics too (specifically Conan The Barbarian #10), then found the UK reprints of the Lancer paperbacks; the first Conan movie was still a decade away at this point.
Lin Carter's work on Kull is well regarded as he captures a lot of what Howard put into the character and his Thurian Age. But you're right about Carter as an editor being far above his work as a writer.
I hope you aren't leaving Roger in charge of the mansion while you're in Europe, you might return to find it remade into a pharaoic throne room complete with marble slab for human sacrifices.
@@charliedogg7683 fortunately I have trusted humans to look after the Manor while I am away. Of course, with Roger here, the chances of them still being human when I get back…
I can't blame you Michael for your (not-so-favourable) views on what De Camp and Carter did to the Howard's legacy all those years ago. It seems like such a selfish and narcissistic thing to do, cramming your own efforts into someone else's superior work. But I have to say, I'm glad they did!
Like you, I found Conan through the Marvel comics and was just the right age to let that version become my "go to" version. Even once I finally came across a beat up copy of "Conan the Adventurer" at a jumble sale with that iconic Frazetta cover, I was doubtful that it would live up to the Thomas/Buscema/Alcala standards I had become used to. Spoiler: Of course it did!
What I'm trying to get at is that at that age I couldn't tell what was a Howard story or not. I was just happy to get my pre-pubescent fill of sword and sorcery goodness! It didn't matter to me at all where it came from just as long as there was some version of him around for me to enjoy!
Yes, over the years I have read many pastiche Conan stories that didn't quite do it for me, but I'm still glad they were there.
Imagine a world where no-one was allowed to adapt or build on someone else's work. Imagine if those Howard Conan stories were all there were... That to me is frightening....
Same with Lovecraft's work, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Tarzan etc... "pastiche" doesn't always mean "inferior", and I am glad legacies are added to by other creators to keep those legends alive.
(Let's just not mention what the idiots are doing to Doctor Who though please!)
Hopefully you can forget your opinions on De Camp and Carter and try to put what they did to the back of your mind and enjoy some of their Conan stories. I think we are all looking forward to what you think...
On a side note, I am enjoying the current Titan version of Conan comics but wish they could find a team to rival the Thomas/Buscema/Alcala masterpieces from the seventies for their "Savage Sword" mag... Oh well, at least I can always dig the originals out when I want to.
Hope Cimmerian September isn't too disappointing for you! By Crom!
I think what Thomas did with Howard's Conan is justifiable in many ways, because he had a monthly book to fill and had to create a chronology for the series to make sense. I don't object to de Camp generating pastiche stories, as much as mutilating and amending Howard's texts to serve his own editorial ends. I credit him for helping revive Conan, but not for violating the work of a superior author.
Already left a comment about this on Grammaticus's channel but i recently tried to read Conan the Rebel by Poul Anderson and i thought it was very dry and contrived. The prose was very awkward as well. Was disappointed as I've been looking forward to reading The Broken Sword by Anderson
I’ve never read Poul Andersons Conan book , but the Broken Sword is one of my top 5 books .
Does anyone remember any Robert Jordon Conan novels? I don't have them anymore, but I remember reading and enjoying a few of them back in the day. They are what made me a fan of his writing, and not the "Wheel of Time", which I'm not that big a fan of. I never hear anyone ever bring them up.
I've got two collected editions of the Robert Jordon Conans. I like them.
The Robert Jordan Conan books were great and basically signed me up for the Wheel of Time which remains my favorite fantasy series. I think Jordan was the best author to ever pick up Howard's torch.
Keep telling it like it is michael your a public voice for the howard purists 👍 nothing against pastiche novels ROAD TO KINGS by Karl Edward Wagner is great
I’ll be reading some Conan comics.
I recently read Conan the Buccaneer. I enjoyed it. However, as you said, it wasn't on the level of Howard. Gotta love Howard's ship name, the 'Wastrel.'
John Duillo as per Wikipedia Conan of the Isles page.
Micheal, Do you have "The Weird Tales Boys" book?
I dont read pasteesh, coz I dont capeesh 🤭 I dunno, just seems so wrong. Svizzera and Italia, I'm envious. I hope to see a weekly report in front of the Colosseum or Pantheon or some such place.
this is what I imagine when people use the word "influencer"
I haven't read all the REH stories so I will be finishing those off. I have been picking up 2nd hand copies of the pastiche tales so may dip into those as well, how does the Robert Jorden ones rate?
I felt the Jorden novels were okay. Some people really like them though.
If you're going to get someone to pastiche Conan, you should find the best authors for the job, but it's only in retrospect that this seems obvious.
There exists a universe in which, following the success of the Shadow magazine, started in 1931, the publisher of Weird Tales decides to launch a single-character magazine based on Conan, who was one of the more popular characters with readers. Howard was alive until 1936, so assuming they were able to pay him more or less on time (which is a reason he finally gave up on WT), the Conan pulp might have lasted beyond Howard's life and writers from the WT stable like C.A. Smith, Robert Bloch, Frank Belknap Long and C.L. Moore could've created a richer body of work for Lancer to exploit decades later.
If I read Blood and Thunder, would that count for Cimmerian September?
Sure, that book should be read more.
Wasn’t that king of aquilonia, not Cimmeria. No one was king of cimmeria.
I know I'm risking being condemned as a heretic here, but you could save youself a lot of time by skipping the pure Howard stories, which you've read many times, and quite recently. 🙂
Blasphemy! 😫
Just came back from vacation in Cimmeria . You should go and visit the Conan Museum . Would I kid you ? Those paperbacks were my introduction to Conan. Devoured them when I was a kid and loved them. Later on I've read the real deals. Loved them too. Many of pastiches are excellent too .
Hacks.