This is very standard. As the studies (and human nature) show, our strongest defenses come from our assumption of judgment. You don't even have to say or do anything judgmental. It's like when someone finds out I don't drink alcohol, they will immediately start qualifying how they don't drink THAT much, etc. It's not limited to veganism by any means!
My vegan autistic neighbor has this REALLY long pacifist pandering speech she gives when people find out. All about how it is her thing and she would never ever dream of forcing it to be their thing. It breaks my heart that she feels that weight. If you hate me I just go on about my day.
When people find out I'm vegan. They immediately act like I have said that they are horrible for murdering animals. They respond to something I haven't said Likewise, if they find out, I'm a Christian, they say. Oh, you think I'm going to hell. Well, no, I'm a universalist. But in both cases you don't have to answer to me If you're feeling guilty, talk to god, not me
I have been vegan for 9 years now. I have always found the social aspects of veganism to be, by far, the most difficult part of being vegan. As we approach the holidays, this will become more apparent. I never had any great cravings for non-vegan foods, or felt sick or weak or hungry, because of my vegan diet. For me, the difficult part was always the inconvenience of it, and the societal aspects.
Your'e certainly not alone in this. As the Markowski & Roxburgh focus group study showed, the anticipation of being stigmatized is a huge deterrent to going vegan, and a VERY REAL pain point for existing vegans. There are several studies that spoke to the social cost of going vegan, though many of the researches voiced in their studies that that particular area really deserves further exploration. Because there is a very real cost socially, emotionally, mentally. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism.
Definitely. For me, the hardest aspect of being vegan has been in situations where my choices are limited. For instance, I have an eating disorder, and finding treatment programs which accommodate vegans is next to impossible, especial if you need a higher level of care. It can be so frustrating trying to those with an anti-vegan bias that veganism is not disordered, restrictive, or a negative lifestyle choice.
True. I was Vegan in Fort Worth. Cowtown. If you have a big family.... it can be tougher. You gotta be yourself, screw the rest of the world... unless your preaching to them or blocking traffic in protests, you have a right to be here.
In addition to being the only vegan in my family, it's pretty obvious that most vegans are women, and I'm a man. There is an even greater stigma attached to men who are vegan. I am also an old guy and there's a stigma attached to old people. You know what? I don't give a damn. I am who I am. I've got no support, including from my wife and children and I wear it proudly. I don't think I'm better, I know I've done plenty of not great things, but I'm trying to be the best I can be, now and that's all I can do.
Thank you for sharing this. You are correct that the studies DO show that male vegans are viewed more negatively than female vegans. That was one of the MANY details I wasn't able to fit into the video for the sake of time. So you do face that additional bias, as well as ageism. I'm delighted to hear your attitude and glad you have such resilience. There are studies I read and have in my bibliography that speak more to perceptions of masculinity and veganism. Two are "Meat, morals, and masculinity" and "Real men don’t eat (vegetable) quiche: Masculinity and the justification of meat consumption. You can find them in my bibliography: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/#bibliography
I don’t know your age (I am a 62 year old man) but do recognise that my family and all my peer group view my veganism as extremely odd at best. It is not uncommon for many to share really bad jokes directed against vegans. I still hear an occasional one in my presence - always from someone who has no clue that I am vegan. Normally one of my friends points out that I am vegan and the look I get is hilarious. It is as if I have grown a second head in front of them. But they never ask why I am vegan……odd that!
I'm terrified of rejection and being hated or looked down upon, so i almost never talk about veganism even though it's something I'm so passionate about and it's a big part of my belief system
You're not alone, it's quite common, just keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with you and people who would hate you, they just try to defend themselve. Just be yourself, stay passionated, if people can't stand you for this then they don't deserve to have you in their life 😉
Yep, and that makes it hard to be a Vegan because people don't get it. It is distressing to the point of absurdity. I no longer like being a human and would prefer to be on another planet with only health-conscious, hyper-intelligent, mostly sexy, vegans. Vulcan > Vogon
Your feelings are very normal, but you should also know, that your can overcome those fears and care much less what other people think. This can be achieved through psychological work on yourself, therapy, work with believes. There are a lot of ways which you can learn about. Getting rid of those feelings makes life sooo much easier! And of course it allows effective activism
You are NOT alone. MANY of the studies I read talk about this. I wasn't able to get into that side in this video and article as I needed to keep it as focused as possible, but I do hope to address it in its own video and article at some point. MANY vegans preemptively anticipate being judged and rejected and therefore don't mention being vegan. As you saw in the video, even NON-VEGANS anticipate rejection if they were vegan. And it's not an unrealistic worry to have. Know you are NOT alone. And that you also don't have to feel that if you aren't talking about it you are somehow failing. I hope that maybe there is some help in hearing through this video that the rejection and judgment from non-vegans isn't about you at all (though that doesn't make it any less painful). This is why we need to be more accepting as a society...not only for people already vegan, but it would also make it more welcoming for others who currently wouldn't consider it due to their own fear of rejection. You are not alone, my friend. PS - If you do want to see a scientific study on this, this is one I consulted: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666321006267/pdfft?md5=aca42a6e95b900e4ae46cd7be1140ae7&pid=1-s2.0-S0195666321006267-main.pdf
Thank you :) Yes I'm really finding a shift in my focus lately with a lot of what I've been reading and researching... I'm really glad you appreciate this direction!
this sounds insane but nobody wants to be the black sheep. So many of these people would just follow the society "norm" even if that means going against their values. This is actually a problem that I feel is not talked about enough and causes tons of problems. It's like the children in school who team up with bullies so they don't get bullied
It is a very strong deterrent. And it's a very painful reality for many vegans. Rejection from friends and family is devastating. Many vegans struggle with this. So it makes complete sense that it's a deterrent to going vegan. This is why it's so important for us as a society to be more accepting-even those who aren't going vegan themselves...if we as a society are more open-minded, then the stigma of being vegan will lessen and people will feel more welcome to make a change.
@@BiteSizeVegan I showed my girlfriend who is 99 percent vegan(she prefers a lot of the products and has realized it makes her sick to eat non vegan...but she will eat non vegan with her family and friends and she also can't cook well 😂) but hasn't made the full transition. She told me after watching your video that she agreed. She said "If the world was designed for vegans, and not being vegan was "weird" and they faced the same difficulty finding restaurants etc. I'd be more willing to commit to that lifestyle..."
Makes sense to me. I know carnists who are applying that to so many parts of their lives. I stopped being friends with a woman because she was always saying she has anxiety attacks because people might judge her the way she judges everybody else all day. It was so ridiculous to hear every day.
Emily, what a profoundly insightful analysis of the complex inner-workings that underly the animosity toward vegans. I cannot imagine the amount of time, care, and consideration you put into this. You've taken a very polarizing matter and delivered it so thoughtfully and with great compassion and balance. And you've also managed to convey very dense scientific research in a way that will makes sense to anyone, yet doesn't sacrifice the depth of the research with oversimplification! I'm truly blown away... What a monumental resource for all of us. As you've said, the more we can understand one another and bring down our defenses, the more we can meaningfully communicate. Well, I am going to go dive into the article as I'm sure you've put SO much more effort and information there as well (as always!!). I'm so grateful for this contribution to the world.
Anesh, I'm truly touched and quite moved by your words. This was indeed an epic undertaking about two months in the making! It's really a battle to find a way to summarize so much research without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience. And also attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media, while also being very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication. Thank you so much again for your kind feedback!
Its true, when I first heard Gary Yourofsky talk, I thought he wasnt a good person and came off as rude. Truth is, he was only speaking facts and it was dissonance within myself that caused the judgment. Gary Yourofsky holds such a special place in my heart now, I have so much respect for him.
That makes a great deal of sense. We reflect onto the "messenger" our discomfort with the "message". And Gary holds a special place in my heart as well :)
Since I have been vegan for 6 years I've noticed that i dont get invited to friends anymore as they think i have to eat "Special" food . i get the same hate from ppl who dont like my Electric car. The hate comes from the meat and oil industries and the media as they pay the advertising. A lady today asked me why im single i told her i think its because im vegan socialist and want the UK to become a Republic as i think having a family as Head of State is wrong . i go against everything that most ppl considere "Normal" . Great video , thank you .
I'm sorry to hear you've had this experience. You're certainly not alone in it. The fear of the "other", resistance to those breaking social norms and the "do-gooder derogation" all are in play... Of course understanding the psychology behind it doesn't mean it's necessarily any less challenging to be on the receiving end.
This made me realize that I've been able to easily become vegan because I'm a rather introverted and marginal person and don't mind what people, friends and family think of me.
I feel so lucky my friends, family and colleagues respect my veganism. Maybe people are "protecting their moral sense of self" by making sure there are vegan options (i.e. "I'm not a vegan, but I want everyone to feel included"). Or they are just considerate people.
I think they are just considerate. As I say at the end of this video, the more accepting we can be a a society, the more welcome people will feel to make a change themselves. The more people see that vegans aren't stigmatized, mocked and attacked, the less fear of rejection there will be around exploring making a change. Even if someone isn't going to go vegan themselves, they can actually contribute to the overall progression of veganism by not stigmatizing vegans. In being open and welcoming, they contribute to a social change of destigmatizing veganism and making it more welcoming for others. PLUS, there is something to be said that for non-vegans, seeing another non-vegan being accepting of vegans carries more weight than a vegan advocating for acceptance.
Frequently, if I’m going to a potluck, I’ll intentionally make a vegan or vegetarian dish to pass. Just because I know how difficult it is to find something to eat at those kinds of get togethers. I’m not vegan or vegetarian anymore, but I remember how it was. I think it’s just a nice thing to do. 😃
🤯 This video (and article) have been *_two months_* in the making! Please *_share this with others_* to encourage understanding and more effective communication. For an even deeper dive into the science, be sure to check out the article: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/ (For the *_OTHER SIDE_* of vegan hate: ua-cam.com/video/YaOvqD5UgO8/v-deo.html ) *Get notified about new Bite Size Vegan content & support:* ✧ Wanna support content like this? (hey thanks!): bitesizevegan.org/support/ 🎉 Best way to get notified every time? Follow on Telegram: BiteSizeVegan.org/Telegram 💌 Get email notifications by joining the newsletter: bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/ 🔔 Not getting notified on UA-cam? See: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7391308 ( *PLEASE NOTE* - UA-cam *_NO LONGER SENDS EMAILS ABOUT NEW VIDEOS_* - even though that article says they do! *_SO, for more reliable notifications, please subscribe to my newsletter or follow on Telegram:_* bitesizevegan.org/subscribe/ )
Another great video. Thanks for all you've done for other species over the years. I put your page at the end of my book for suggested viewing. My comment about the video is that fearing being judged is a sign of narcissism, which unfortunately is rampant.
Vegans and vegetarians as a category are looked down upon, but consider this- Some widely admired people who chose not to eat meat- Pythagoras, Socrates, Leonardo da Vinci, Voltaire, Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Nikolai Tesla, Albert Einstein, Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, George Bernard Shaw, Tolstoy, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thoreau, Saint Francis of Asisi, Nobel laureate and holocaust survivor Isaac Bashevis Singer, and many more. Some on this list switched late in life, but stayed on it to the end. "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Einstein (Of course today, he would be vegan. So would the others on this list.) The famous Professor of Physics Brian Greene is vegan. You may have seen him on PBS hosting science shows for the layman. Jane Goodall recently went from a long time vegetarian to vegan. Greta Thunberg is vegan. Jon (Daily Show) Stewart is not only vegan, he owns a farm animal sanctuary!
It’s so funny because I was just discussing with a couple of vegan friends this very topic and like 10 mins later I saw your video pop up! Spot on!! Thank you for all your hard work! My husband and I are were so happy when you started making videos again. You were one of our 1st regular channels to watch when we went vegan almost 8 years ago! Best decision of our lives! ❤️
I'm so honored!! Thank you so much for sharing this with me...and what great timing for the topic! I'm so glad you found this helpful. I do hope it serves as a lasting resource.
I was vegan and my in-laws relentlessly taunted and criticized me so I went back to vegetarian just to appease others. However I have gained weight and I’m less happy so screw them, I’ll start doing what I know is best for my body and the animals. Thanks Emily ❤
So good that you're getting back on to your values! It's very very useful to learn to ignore other people's judgements and do what is right. It can be done through various psychotherapy techniques.
I'm vegan but I don't tell people that anymore, now I say I'm vegetarian, people seem to be less afraid of vegetarians 😅 And if I go to social event involving food, ie Thanksgiving, I bring my meal with me and sometimes vegan appetizers for others to enjoy ❤
You are not alone in this! The vegetarians in the focus group study I highlighted also shared that (even though they earlier were saying how judgy vegans were), they were able to empathize with how much worse vegans must be treated given the crap they got for "just being vegetarian". Vegetarianism is more accepted. And your'e not alone in yielding to the pressures of others. It's human and understandable to not want to be mocked and criticized. You may find reading that full study to be validating. I have it linked in my bibliography on the article, but I think the Full Text isn't available at the journal link. Feel free to reach out to me through my website and I’d be happy to email you the PDF: bitesizevegan.org/contact/ (It's the study "“If I became a vegan, my family and friends would hate me:” Anticipating vegan stigma as a barrier to plant-based diets").
@@BiteSizeVegan funny, when I was vegetarian and contemplating on going vegan, my obstacle was not that my family would hate me, but that I would hate them if I go vegan ))
Yep. This is why I've learned to say, "Let me just say I don't think that you or anyone else is a bad person for eating meat..." before I answer any questions about why I'm having the veggie burger or not eating the pizza they made. Additionally, when someone I know gets frustrated that they're not getting through someone else's cognitive dissonance on an issue all I have to say is, "Hey I'm vegan and you know how your stomach just clenched and you wanted to attack me merely for saying that..."
Wow thank you! That means the world to me. And I agree about the common sense....it was interesting getting into all these studies, because they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
OMG 😳 This is spot on and how… I have been vegan for many years and constantly face societal backlash, loneliness, isolation but it is a small price to pay for living in line with my thought process.
@@charles9489No I’m Indian. Although vegetarians are common here but unfortunately the sad reality of the dairy industry is not seen by the vast majority. So being vegan in India is still not so easy.
Great stuff! When I first went vegan I was convinced that most non-vegans were resistant because of price and convenience, but the more I read and think about the issue, the more I think social factors are the primary causal influence. I actually did a video called "Influencers CAN'T Veganize the World...Here's Why" that touches on this, which you might be interested in.
Rice and beans, real expensive. I found a low sodium diet actually far more restrictive than just a vegan. But the low sodium was more effective at reducing blood pressure.
My husband and I are vegans. We took an omnivore friend to a vegan restaurant and she loved the food there. She proudly told the waiter, who was serving us, that she was a part time vegan, he told her she either was a vegan or she wasn’t and she got so upset about it. I mean really upset! He was right. She is not and was not a vegan. But did his comment make her want to become a vegan? No! Would a 👍 from him be more encouraging for her? Maybe. Once I read a comment under a UA-cam video from a vegan who was saying he was the real vegan because he was doing it for health reasons 🙄, according to him real vegans are those who do it for health reasons only. He was talking really badly about those of us who are vegans for the animals. He was talking about us as if we were fanatics, he was distancing himself from us and from environmental vegans. So yes, we can be so tribal and righteous that we actually cause more damage to our cause than we realise. I am guilty of this myself. Thanks for the video. Definitely a lot to think about 🤯🤔
These are GREAT "in the wild" examples of what's called "horizontal hostility" or "intragroup bias" within the veg*n spectrum. This can be a particularly destructive force. And it's more of the very same psychology that drives anti-vegan bias within non-vegans. That's why I really tried to keep bringing the point home that this is ALL OF US. Vegans can get very upset about hate from non-vegans, but we too are human and will manifest the same things. Just as much as we need to be more accepting of veganism on a societal level, the vegan community can benefit from extending to one another within our own community what we desire from the greater society. And yeah...would have been nice had the waiter been encouraging. Sounds like your friend was genuinely enthusiastic about her new experience! If you're interested in more of the science on the intragroup bias, you can check out citations #34 and #35 on the article (this will jump you to the citations: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/#citations ) for two studies on this. Though there are plenty more.
Nailed it. Recently I was chatting with a woman on a dating app and it was going well so I asked what were deal breakers for her and there were about 5 including drug addict and vegan 😄😅😂🤣 . Thanks for the edutainment and peace and positivity to everyone.
Oh no the double whammy deal breaker! That's so on the nose to the study I mentioned it's hilarious :D Thanks for sharing and glad you enjoyed the video!
Literally, when I told my mom I wanted to create a group of friends that were vegan, she immediately told me, "That's like saying a drug addict wants to be friends with drug addicts." I was like, "Did you just compare me to a drug addcit?" Now it makes sense 😅
People are often surprised when I tell them how much negative attitude I get from others for being vegan. I don't even have to say anything. Even if I'm at a social gathering and I quietly pass on the plate of turkey, others at the table will immediately engage with me on why I'm not eating the meat. And if you end up being forced to respond out of politeness chances are high that because you responded to their enquiry at the table you will be labeled a preachy vegan and not invited to the next social gathering. It's a weird social trap that is very difficult to avoid. This has happened to me repeatedly over the years, regardless of how much I try to avoid this kind of situation
Being vegan really does have a social cost. As the Markowski & Roxburgh focus group study showed, the anticipation of being stigmatized is a huge deterrent to going vegan, and a VERY REAL pain point for existing vegans. There are several studies that spoke to the social cost of going vegan, though many of the researches voiced in their studies that that particular area really deserves further exploration. Because there is a very real cost socially, emotionally, mentally. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism. I hope to do a video sometime focusing on the cost to vegans as you're right-many people don't understand the severity of it for many vegans.
As a 3+ year Vegan, this video made me cry. Firstly, this video is an absolute treasure trove of amazing analyses and insights into Vegan psychology. I will be referencing this video a lot in my activism. It’s clear you put your heart and soul into this and the flow charts were a much needed addition. Secondly, this video handed me the bittersweet truth as to why I constantly feel so damn lonely as a Vegan. At first, I felt lonely because I always thought everyone was judging me, but then I realized that I feel lonely because everyone is really just judging themselves and projecting it onto me. Most people don’t want to change and I don’t like to be friends with those people. Even though I try my best to remind myself that the hatred I get is simply a reflection of the omnivorous mind and that I speak on behalf of the animals, I can’t deny that it’s still hatred toward me nonetheless, and it hurts. It’s nice to know that scientific studies prove this and I love how you put a positive twist on it in the end. It’s very easy to make it an us vs them, but reality is so much more nuanced than that and you showcasing that is so sweet. Thank you for this amazing video.
Wow. This comment means more to me than I can possibly tell you. I did truly pour my whole self into this over the last 2 months. And I, too, was brought to tears many times in the process...primarily from just the sheer weight of human anguish, animosity, distress, fear, misunderstanding, and more than anything the fact that so much of the pain comes from pain... So much of hurting people comes from our own wounds. And I just want so badly for us all to be able to hold space for all our wounded parts and find our shared humanity there. You are not alone in your feelings of isolation and loneliness. Knowing the reasons behind people's behavior doesn't necessarily mean that behavior hurts any less. There are very real costs to being vegan. I was worried in this video and article that I was shortchanging that side of it all. But I had to purposefully keep as focused as I could on the premise (why people hate vegans vs getting too deep into the vegan side)...otherwise this would be a 40 hour video! Even with that "narrow" focus, there is so much I didn't get to! But I do hope in the future to make a video/article on the costs of veganism. Because they are very real. And within several of the studies I read, researches noted how that is an area that deserves more research and attention. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism. I'm truly honored by your thoughtful consideration and response to this video. And I do feel your pain. I do always make an effort to bring a positive thread into what I convey...even in those studies demonstrating bias and negativity. I want to find those threads...but I feel the weight of it all.
@@BiteSizeVegan Thank you for being so open and vulnerable here in your comments section. I am honored you gave me such a heartfelt reply! I feel you, quite a lot. In fact I thought I was being too dramatic but instead your comment made me realize I am not the only one. I am a much younger and newer Vegan (23 yo, 3.5 years) so I am still finding my community. Thank you for holding this space for us. The point on holding space for feeling our wounds together, even though it’s small and fleeting, this exchange partly fulfilled that need for that space. Thank you. I don’t think you shortsighted Vegans. I appreciate the narrow focus of the video and definitely look forward to hearing you expand on the Vegan side of things! While I too am hoping for future research on Vegans (and social justice movements and effective activism as a whole), there’s a great book on this topic written by a Vegan Psychologist called Vystopia: The anguish of being vegan in a non vegan world. I think it would make a great reference for your future videos which I am excited to hear your thoughts on! I am also interested to hear your thoughts on how one should approach non-Vegans during their activism considering the findings you presented here! I can wait two months for another video on these things :)
@thatdaniperson thank you for the book reference. I will certainly look into that! And honored to have provided some space for validating your experience. I just happened to find your second reply, but just want you to know that if I miss any ever, it’s only due to my limitations of keeping up with everything as one person, and never an intentional abandoning of a conversation. I so wish I could follow up on all of them always! Very glad I did catch yours and at a place where I could respond as I’d love to be able to for everyone. You’ve really touched my heart with your own vulnerability. You are not being too dramatic at all. It’s when we don’t honor the intensity of our wounds and what we face that they continue to magnify. I also just want to say that I don’t know when I’ll be making content on the topics we’ve mentioned. I hate how long it takes for me to get things together :) and I try to allow for some variety. But just wanting to say that if it’s not the next video or few, I’m not forgetting it. I promise!
@@thatdaniperson Thank you so much :) Oh and! As far as "how one should approach non-vegans during their activism" considering the research, in the meantime, I’d really recommend reading Ben De Groeve's research, especially "Ideological resistance to veg*n advocacy: An identity-based motivational account" which gives some thoughts on such considerations. All of his work is available in full PDFS on his website (see the (PDF) links at the end of each article's info): bendegroeve.wordpress.com/articles/
This reminds me of when you came up with "I don't care" being the only valid argument against veganism because if you don't care we can't make you care. But nobody has ever said that to me. I have heard every justification in the book to eat animals, but not even my friend who thinks he is the biggest jerk on earth says "I don't care if animals die." Nobody feels that. And that is why we are all stuck.
Very interesting stuff. You know that there are many vegetarian and meat eat people that feel guilty and want to be vegan because a lot of people use expressions with me like "I'm mostly vegan"
Absolutely. That's promising, I think. And the more we can societally be more accepting of veganism and transitioning away from eating animals, and the more available we can make plant-based options, the more welcome and able people will feel and be to make that change.
Can't wait to watch the rest of this! I actually just posted yesterday about that article mentioning vegans facing the same stigma as drug addicts. Makes sense to me! Especially when you said it's commonplace and socially accepted. No one agrees with us except for other vegans, lol. What a life 😅
It was interesting getting into all these studies, because they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
I have been vegan for 6 years. My wife is an omnivore. A few month's ago she said: "I love animals." I didn't know what to say. I didn't want to confront her with her hypocrisy. I know that I probably should have said something but I totally didn't know how to respond because I was so shocked.
@raulcolmenero She won't leave. We accept each other's dietary preferences and never discuss the morality. Same goes for religion. We know what the other believes and don't discuss it.
@@kolumbus1754 As regards my wife: After I was able to overcome my shock I realised that I really didn't want to initiate a very heated and totally irrational argument. I live in the same house as her and I don't want to provoke a possible divorce at this point in my life.
@@fpcoleman57 yeah I get that, I wasnt talking about a heated discussion tho, more one where you both try to stay calm and get your point across. I seriously doubt that a single heated argument will lead to a divorce tho, but then again I dont know anything about your relationship. All I'm saying is in this regard you are undeniably correct, well unless she is okay being a speciesist. With religion one could argue that it's impossible to know for sure, but we know throughout history what insormountable horriblie things religion has caused..
Thanks for the video, BSV! 🥦 I often forget that when there are people that seem to be upset at me without cause or assume I'm arrogant it's probably me being vegan that plays a significant role in their perception of me I'm so used to being vegan that I forget I'm different and weird to most people 🙃 which isn't something to take personally, but it's a widespread bias people aren't even thinking through Best thing we can do is set the example of being kind, understanding, and gentle while remaining as morally consistent as possible ✌️
Thank you. It really did! This was a MONSTER to create at every step of the process. Every study was so in-depth and there are so many complex concepts throughout the hundred or so I started with (ended up with a little over 80 in my ending bibliography). It's a battle to find a way to summarize so much without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience...plus attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media...AND be very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication!
Thank you, Emily! 💚This is such helpful information, and I appreciate this perspective and will keep it in mind in future interactions with non vegans. Even though I went vegan in 2012, no one else in my family has. Not even vegetarian. It means I always have to bring my own food to any family gathering. But I still love my family, and try to respect their choices, whether I agree or not. It’s very challenging at times.
I'm so glad you found this helpful! That's everything I hoped for with creating this. And I totally understand how you feel. No one in my family is vegan either. But them being accepting and welcoming is still very powerful. The more people see that vegans aren't stigmatized, mocked and attacked, the less fear of rejection there will be around exploring making a change. Even if someone isn't going to go vegan themselves, they can actually contribute to the overall progression of veganism by not stigmatizing vegans. In being open and welcoming, they contribute to a social change of destigmatizing veganism and making it more welcoming for others. PLUS, there is something to be said that for non-vegans, seeing another non-vegan being accepting of vegans carries more weight than a vegan advocating for acceptance.
As a vegan atheist, I definitely notice a hesitance I have around answering certain questions, and a often different temperature in the room when I do.
Thank you for the time and effort you have put into making this video. I don't usually share stuff about veganism - when I do, there is a tumbleweed moment on my feed - but I will share this and see what the response is.
Thank you so much for this! I'm honored. And I hope people do respond well...though always be prepared that the (unfortunate) environment of social media lends itself to people already being primed for conflict. While I strive to be as disarming as possible with my presentation and message (and truly believe it!), sometimes people's defenses rise so quick that they won't even engage with the content, only react to the premise and what they think is being said (as we learned in this video! The anticipated message becomes reality). But I hope that this video will help us all better understand where that comes from. For all of us!
nice analysis! even when I was a hardcore 3 times a day meat eater I still understood (on some level anyway) I had very little (read:no) moral ground to stand on. it was the cognitive dissonance that kept me complacent. that's where all the excuses and frantic google searching for a shred evidence would come in. little painkillers to protect my own ego from the pressure of a perceived threat. I think this is the reason the health angle was what finally pulled me in, and I wasn't fully ready to confront the moral aspects and fully incorporate that into my life until a bit later. I chalk that up to being raised a man but that's beyond the scope of a youtube comment. if asked, I'd say yes I do think I'm better than meat eaters, but that's far from some targeted statement against A meat eater, it's a recognition of the process that took place to distance myself from the meat eater I was. it's also taking into account that the reasons I was consuming animal products were the same as everyone else's. it's not meant to be read as a sweeping value judgement encompassing all of one's character, but their stance/actions on a particular moral issue. the language of saying that you're better than someone else is harsh, clunky and certainly ill-advised and easily misunderstood, but it IS about a choice and there IS legitimate reason to make that distinction when one of those choices involves harm reduction and the other promotes harm. all of your actions and beliefs should be confronted, analyzed, understood, their origins traced back to their source to the best of your abilities on your own time. that being said, you can't be surprised when you encounter people who have already done that work on a particular issue and have something to say about it. just try to remember that even if you encounter the most socially inept recently converted "militant" loudmouth out there, it's not about YOU or the burger you're eating even if it seems like it is at the time. you can throw out any justification you'd like to end the conversation on the topic - not only has the other person already heard it, they've probably said it themselves. that's sometimes why they're upset and that's why their language can be so biting; they see an old part of themselves that they can't stand
Wonderful video, as usual! It makes so much sense that we all have fear of rejection and to be cast out of our social circle. We are living in a scenario most people fear for their entire lives. It's interesting too, living in a loneliness epidemic that there's even a greater fear of rejection, so I'm sure perhaps maybe that doesn't help our cause much either. Ugh.. There's so many barriers at play and it's so complex to get around to try to get through to people. Everyone is experiencing so much in their lives and it's such a big "ask" to get them to open their eyes to this gigantic paradigm shift. I dunno, I spend so much time trying to think of the best approach to not have a disappointing encounter when veganism comes up. This is a very good concept I will try to remember before I engage a conversation in the future. Thank-you so, so much ✨💕
I'm honored to hear how deeply you engaged with this video. It's always very rewarding to see people really dig into the content I create (especially after spending 2 months on it!) So I just wanted to voice how much I appreciate that (thank you) :) And I too felt the weight of ALL of that when writing this...it was such a challenge to fin a way to present this while holding in mind the very wounded, lonely, and fearful inner self so many of us carry around with us. I wanted so badly to be able to share the promising commonalities I saw even within all the polarization, defensiveness, negativity, and attacks. I saw it all coming from the shared aspects of our humanity. That everyone is just trying to protect themselves and make it through this world. I know that may sound kinda hippy-dippy in some ways...but I really just wanted to help everyone connect to our humanness.
Excellent video. I agree 100%. It's sad that people choose to continue to abuse animals because they are scared of being judged. Tradition and culture are ridiculous, too. Almost anything can be veganized. I am originally from NY, so I don't really care what people think about me. I'm not afraid of being judged. The animals are more important to me.
@elizabethelias1005 No, the animals don't care. Tell a cow it's going to die tomorrow, and it'll just keep chewing the cud. Despite the years of programming that gives human attributes to animals, animals don't self reflect and cannot even contemplate life or death.
Wow! What a fantastic video, super interesting. I´ve been vegan for 4 years now, and I never understood why people got so defensive...until now! And yes, let's focus on being a supportive community instead of a judging one! This is the way
So thrilled that this was helpful for you! That was my goal :) I do think that understanding the reasons behind defenses (on all sides) can help diffuse the charge. :)
This is SO BRILLIANT, Emily. You've done us all such a service in pulling together the data from numerous studies to explain the deep-seated psychological reasons for social aggression towards ethical vegans and vegetarians. And your finding--that that aggression amounts to a reaction formation--is truly illuminating. It confirms what many of us suspected but didn't quite know. And you're right: many people, if not most, hate vegans because they just don't want to think that they are harming animals. Thanks for doing the important work.
Thank you so much. This is so encouraging to hear! This was a MONSTER to create at every step of the process. Every study was so in-depth and there are so many complex concepts throughout the hundred or so I started with (ended up with a little over 80 in my ending bibliography). It's a battle to find a way to summarize so much without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience...plus attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media...AND be very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication!
Definetly not beacuse they are the most annoying people ever and dont do anything but shove their lifestyle in your face while judging and looking down on you
Greed and hate is highly associated with meat consumption in history. We cannot underestimate the power of Animal Agriculture. It is a highly deceptive and oppresive industry
I just joined a new company. After a week, they finally found out that I am vegan (while having an evening snack). And I know, I am already under scanner and I can feel it. Anyways, most office staff doesn't even know what 'vegan' means. And this is what vegan means to them; Vegans are of 'Extra Pure Veg' category. They don't even drink Milk. They don't eat cake on Birthday Parties, they don't eat snack biscuits. They don't eat 'Ghee Rice', They don't drink Tea/ Coffee, No Sweets of any sort. Their life is boring and we should keep them away as they don't Mingle up and enjoy with rest of us. But still, they are all very kind people. They are very supportive at work. Most of them are Vegetarians by default due to their family culture. Lets see, how long can I make it. This video made some heart touching points.
I'm glad to hear they are supportive. I do hope that continues to be the case. And yes, what you've said is a widely shared experience-that vegetarianism is seen as more acceptable but veganism is a step too far... Many of the studies spoke to this as well. I do hope you have a supportive environment. I know how challenging that can be!
Very well articulated! As a currently lapsed vegan/ vegetarian, I learned early on in my veganism that any hate coming my way was because of what I represented rather than anything about myself or my diet. However I felt less attacked by non vegans than in the company of vegans- approaching non harming animals from the reductionist mindset will always propel you towards a negative attitude towards your own species and your own existence becomes problematic, so you of course seek to point out other’s deficiencies in’being a true vegan’. It has the same undercurrent as communism if not watched with self compassion.
One reason I moved from a small rural town to a coastal suburb of a major city because some of the locals in my old hometown were outright hostile to vegans and vegetarians.
This video is amazing! Thank you so much for that. I am Brazilian and here the meat culture is so prevalent even the nicest person becomes conflicted even if I say absolutely nothing about haha just eat my vegs in front of them becomes something hahaha and this helps a lot to deal with this THANK YOU SO MUCH for this
Too many vegans in comments worrying about non vegans mocking, judging and challenging them. Seriously?! Be proud of your kind heart. Always raise your voice for animals. Don't ever apologize for doing the right thing.
I went plant based this summer for health reasons. I seem to have developed something where eating meat caused digestive issues, and since I was already lactose intolerant, it wasn’t that hard to remove all animal products from my diet. The only judgement-free places I’ve experienced when I’ve disclosed my dietary change was with my husband and with my doctor. It’s just easier to stay quiet and hope you won’t get the “where do you get your protein” question or the side-eye from others.
The video and comments got me reflecting on how I approach people in my daily life. I rarely, if ever, tell people I'm vegan, though I of course don't hesitate to when asked. I instead try to cultivate casual (or not-so-casual) anti-speciesism at all times through how I act and speak in relation to animals.
I love your videos so much! The insight that the ones who care the most (but lack the courage to act) will be the most defensive is something I could probably have told you from my own experience but hearing it explained so clearly makes it a lot more actionable. Thank you! You continue to do amazing work and you're making the world a better place.
Thank you so much! This means the world to me :) And yes I had the same thought....as I was getting into all these studies, I found they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd already come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
thank you so much for making this video! I'm studying my final year of my masters in integrated product design and break downs of behavioral psychology such as to why people struggle with topics as these are one of my favorite aspects of my field! Hopefully I get do design solutions to these kind of challenges in the future!
Very well said Emily. Throughout my vegan journey I have seen all the different ways that vegan animal rights activists conduct their animal activism. A disruptive animal rights activist named Tash Peterson has gotten a lot of animosity from the public in her country Australia. I actually like her a lot along with Gary Yourofsky, Edward Winters and Joey Carbstrong. I think they all do an amazing job of standing up for animals. I also find that I am better able to see more eye to eye with each of them. It’s been interesting seeing how others got aggressive towards them, while others were tolerating them in their vegan outreaches. Vegans are only trying to educate people about how their dietary choices and lifestyles are negatively impacting the planet, humans and non human animals. There’s really no threat, it’s just their guilty conscious that vegans are simply pointing out.
Thank you for this very concise and thoroughly-researched video! This has been my intuition as well, as an ethical vegan that generally avoids disclosing this or delving into the topic if they take note of my restaurant order. Your mere existence implicitly challenges omnivores' morals, even if that's not your intention. Sadly, in general we humans are deeply social creatures primarily motivated by emotions and social factors rather than dispassionate ethical analysis.
You are so very welcome. And I'm honored to hear it was helpful. I too found in the studies so much of what I’d already come to intuitively through my experiences..and even said many times in videos and speeches. And then there is the data to back it up...
I’m to the point where I don’t even mention I’m vegan because I hate the responses I get. I used to be so open about it and loved telling people I’m vegan but wow, it’s too much. It’s so sad because I feel like I’m not speaking for the animals but really just want to not argue everyday 🙄
Thank you so much :) And I'd be happy to talk about it with you. Podcast would be most doable for me. Would you mind sending me a contact form through my website in case I miss replies on this comment? I'm kinda crap at tracking them! bitesizevegan.org/contact/ (you can use the "Other" option for simplicity on it...I'll keep an eye out for you)
I’ve never had any issues with vegans/vegetarians. I’ve had some vegan friends. I would often eat at restaurants chosen by them, since it was harder to accommodate their dietary preferences. A close friend of mine would regularly make disparaging remarks and quips about omnivores (ie. “the disgusting smell of chicken she was eating in my vicinity was making me nauseous”), wouldn’t let me use her dinnerware because she couldn’t handle the idea of animal products having been eaten off them (yet she had several cats, all of whom ate canned food out of actual bowls). In other words, while I’ve never looked down upon veganism as lifestyle choice, I’ve certainly had my fair share of explicit and implicit judgments thrown my way by vegans.
i've never personally seen studies on this, but i theorize that people who are already treated as "outcasts" by wider society have an easier time going vegan because they care less about others' approval. for instance, i am autistic and have been excluded from social activities all my life. the social reaction to me being vegan was not a strong deterrent for me. my partner, on the other hand, has been accepted and loved by wider society all his life. he only recently committed to being vegetarian, and he expresses to me that it's very difficult when he's with his friends. i suspect his high social standing makes it much more difficult for him to do something against the status quo
Excellent presentation and interesting information about the existing studies that can explain this hate. The disconnect is a coping mechanism as holding simultaneous beliefs of not wanting to hurt animals and unnecessarily having to kill them for food can’t coexist. The reaction is very strong and it can translate into a strong emotion like hate.
That's certainly one of the drivers. And I think the more well-known ones. I found the socially-driven reasons quite fascinating as well. Though everything still ties back into everything else!
My first reaction was, "I don't hate vegans!" But listening to the video that makes sense. I'm actually not a good person and I don't care if animals are killed for my nutrition. Therefore I don't feel judged and guilty in the presence of vegans and I don't have a reason to hate them. You learn something new about yourself every day...
This is very insightful. For me, it's gotten to the point where I don't bring up that I"m Vegan any more. Especially in the workplace. I've experienced out right hate, discrimination and abuse for being Vegan.
This is fascinating. I can relate to both sides of this - both pre and post becoming vegan. I think the lesson here is to be less judgemental of others. I have to remind myself that I once had no ethical qualms with animal agriculture, and didn’t even see it as cruelty towards animals, nor the exploitation of them.
So glad you found this interesting. And it's beautiful that you can stay connected to your pre-vegan time. Many vegans lose sight of that, which makes it difficult to engage with non-vegans. It's lovely that you remind yourself of where you once were.
I never gave it any thought.! But 15 years ago I red a book call "The Face On Your Plate" and immediately went vegan, and continue researching the impact of animal agriculture, traced it back to the colonization of my homeland. I am not a person who worries about what others think, and I started writing on social media, my findings and there I found that it was disturbing for others, and I wasn't writing "Go Vegan" I was writing how that the animal agriculture industry is directly connected to white supremacy. I still don't take others into consideration, maybe it's because I grew-up as an Urban-feral and had very little supervision from my single parent native american mother. I am very happy that you shared this information with us and will share it, only thinking about the animals. Thank you!
What a superb analysis dear Emily. Giving the vibe of being open minded (easiest if you are really are!) is the balm for all. Most humans crave acceptance. ❤
Thank you so very much! And yes, it is so important... Environments like social media tend to have people primed for conflict, so it's additionally challenging to lower defenses enough that they can even see there is open-mindedness and acceptance :) The more we can collectively convey this, the more all sides can communicate.
Once certain folks find out I'm vegan they ensue with mocking/questioning what I'm eating. It's childish. I would never harass others about what's on their plate, and they only know I'm vegan when they see my food and ask what it is and/or why I'm not eating the pizza, BBQ, etc. This notion that vegans go around telling everyone they're vegan is actually vegan folks responding to questions about what they're eating/not eating rather than vegans arbitrarily telling people "I'm vegan". When they press me about my choice to be vegan, I tell them about the horror and abuse animals suffer and that I want no part of it. My advice to non-vegans who don't want to hear about the animal abuse and horrific suffering, don't ask questions that you don't want the answers to.
It's so funny... despite being omnivore you can still be a good person. You might. It's not sure, but you might qualify... That's what she's saying... and that isn't judgemental? And condescending? That doesn't place you vegans as moraly superior, deciding who is and who isn't a decent human being based on your veganstandards? What do you expect in return?
@@anamariadominguez9082 the first friend I ever made in life when I was a little bitty kid ended up on a different path and murdering someone when he was a teenager. Over 25 years later he just got out of prison. And despite perhaps one of the most horrific things someone could do, I still call him my friend and I think he ultimately is a good person deep down inside. And I know with all of my heart he would never get in that kind of situation again. I think every one of us is quintessentially good, deep down inside. But not all of us let that come out and instead we push it down and cover it up with indifference, hate and violence. I mean good people do bad things and perhaps they don't know it. Bad people do bad things and perhaps they know it. Eating animals is bad and once you know it's up to you to stop to be the person you ultimately want to be.
I don't end up announcing I'm vegan a lot of the time and just try and slip by undetected. I'm reserved and just find it easier that way. The world has some impression vegans love to shout it from the roof tops, so this has helped me understand that disparity better. Helpful video, thanks 👍
Absolutely... and at a crazier level still...it's what we have in common that DOES divide us...but the more we can recognize that, the less divisive it becomes :)
I'm the only vegan I know. The worst harassment I've experienced was a woman telling me I was gay for being vegan. She also poked fun at me occasionally hinting that I wasn't a "Real Man" .The same girl was very liberal and had a gay best friend. Odd. I wasn't very upset. People only reveal themselves when they speak in such a way. My idea of masculinity, or just being a good person, is doing the right thing even if it means you walk alone against the herd.
Great video. Social barriers are some of the biggest barriers to a vegan world. We need to make it socially unacceptable to eat animals, and make veganism the social norm.
Been there done that. I grew up omnivore. I tried raw vegan, vegan, and vegetarian diets. I tried keto and carnivore. I've settled on omnivore, I eat everything but focus on high protein (animal products) and low carb. I don't hate vegans. I'm just repelled by the ones who are evangelistic zealots, like the religious nuts. Ugh! You do you and I'll do me. Thankyouverymuch.
I am not a vegan but when I first met my wife she was a vegan and all of her friends were too! I had no trouble with the diet but the friends man, the friends. These people were hyper judgmental and preachy. It was just too much. And I sat through so many “killing animals” porn which was just exhausting. I was not ever attacking anyone, I was being attacked every second I was in contact with what I can only describe as religious zealots. Having come from a cult myself when I was a child, I have deep sympathy for people who are very religious because they are swept up in it all but I don’t care for extremism. These days I just ask that people learn to live and let live.
How I feel too. I literally could care less what someone shoves in their mouths. It's how they treat others that matters. The extremists often turn off people from one group or another. If I had someone come up to me and kindly say "may I talk to you about veganism" and then take a "no" with gracefully then I might be more inclined to listen later. The opposite is also true of course. Omnivores need to be kinder to vegans as well. However if im being told I'm a "shitty person for x, y , and z reasons" then I'm immediately going to shut down and not listen. Not that I can be vegan even if I wanted to (for health reasons) but I do still hear it even though it's something beyond my control
You are so very good at explaining touchy subjects, without offending. Amazing skills, which you have obviously worked hard at developing. Your work and thoughtful reasoning is appreciated.❤
Thank you so much. I truly, truly appreciate this. I spent the last 2 months on this video and article and agonized greatly over how to navigate this. I had to find a way to summarize over 80 studies without oversimplifying the science, but also not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience. AND attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media, and the video vs the article AND be very mindful of ALL audiences, and how non-vegans, vegans, and vegetarians could take every single point...so trying to find the best way to word things that would be the most disarming to EVERYONE SIMULTANEOUSLY... None of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up, so I REALLY worked extremely hard on this one! Thank you for recognizing that :)
I don't hate vegans, I was a (health food) vegetarian for 18 years. But I DID get sick. The level of carbs I ate wrecked havoc on my body. So I began doing research and after about a year, I very tentatively decided that I needed to try animal protein (meat, not just dairy or eggs). I did and got much better. I did more research and found out so much about grass-fed meat, the dangers of carb farming to animals and habitat, etc. When I tried to discuss these things with my fellow vegetarian/ vegan friends, I was met with open disdain. Such close-mindedness. I couldn't believe it. Then I realized that I had pretty much been that way myself. I was disgusted at my actions and also was happy to have been able to open my mind long enough to find a better way for MYSELF. I still love animals. But I also realize that I have an ancestral biology which thrives on meat, AND I realize that there is no living being (or close to none) on this planet that doesn't live due to the death of another form of life. I don't hate vegans for being vegan. But I do have waning patience for people who shut down conversations out of close mindedness.
It has been my experience as a homeschooling parent (very similar reactions to being vegan) that reactions ranged from resentment to "I could never do that" and everything in between. Reactions to veganism range from resentment to "I love meat too much and could not do without my occasional steak" and everything in between. I also have noticed that for both homeschooling and veganism, many people react as if I was about to try to convince them that they HAD to also homeschool/be vegan. They perceived me as a threat. What I have felt throughout the years is that the main reaction or cause of negative reactions is due to us doing something different from 'the norm'. For some reason, this makes people uncomfortable and I think most of them don't know why. It's a gut reaction. I don't know about the 'good' vs 'bad' people thing, but I have encountered the assumption that we think we're superior because we homeschooled/are vegan. I find it irritating to the extreme that people make assumptions about us based on how they think/react. I have no intention of trying to convince anyone to either homeschool or go vegan because both are choices people need to make for their own reasons and I am not living their lives. I only ever told people about homeschooling or veganism because they asked. It is something we did/do that only affects us.
Open minded! 👏 that’s my take away. Both vegans and non-vegans have to stay open minded in order to get along and understand each other. The more we work to remove the US vs. THEM feels, the better. Thanks Emily for another fantastic video 😊
That is most definitely a key takeaway to this all! Thank you for this thoughtful comment. Means a great deal to see the points come through that I was so hoping to communicate!
while being vegan is the most optimal for environment and not hurting animals, I think vegans should be more supportive of people who just decrease the amount of meat they eat. In the end of the day, it would lead to less animal cruelty, and better health for those individuals, so win win. Being vegan is an extreme approach and that is the reason why people are sceptical, afraid and then angry at veganism, and to expect general population to be committed to such a restrictive diet is unrealistic, and I think vegans should be aware of that. That being said, dietary guidelines are promoting exactly that but it doesn't seem to help people with changing their habits. Still, I think we should look for other solutions to change the world for the better in that aspect.
It's a simple combination selfishness/addiction and cognitive dissonance if you ask me. People struggle with being wrong about something. They struggle even more if they've done it their entire lives, and everyone they know does it too. But that alone can't justify an action, so they usually resort to completely absurd reasoning to defend their unnecessary addiction.
This is why it is necessary to join a community that supports your vegan choice. It's hard, though not impossible, to make this change alone, and we don't have to with so many online vegan communities to participate in.
Three and a half minutes in, I’ve already nodded so hard that my head popped off. The whole mental mechanism of vegan-hatred is laid bare. Goddamn this is good analysis. Your friend, Omnivore Who Rates Vegetarians & Vegans As More Virtuous & Moral Than Omnivores
People hate vegans because those people subscribe to a religion. Carnism is a religion... a religion based in ego, violence and domination. How dare you say their beliefs are erroneous! They don't recognize the sovereignty of other sentient beings. It's all ME ME ME, MY desires, MY comforts, MY survival. They don't understand rightful property. The life of a being is its property. No one has the right to take that property. But carnists don't understand this, nor do they care to. Part of them knows that they're wrong, but the ego steps in and puts up a defense, and then they lash out when anyone dares to remind them. They also don't understand the Law of Correspondence. The more we dominate and violate the rights and lives of our animal kin, the more we will be violated and dominated in turn. A more moral diet leads to a more moral life.
The mirror can be very painful to look into. “Who am I?” “What am I?” “How am I?” Face yourself in the eyes of others. See yourself in the eyes of animals. Wake up to your Self.
This is why not telling anyone you are vegan works so well. By the time they find out they already like you and see you as a normal person. Those who thrive on biases mentioned in the video will be in shock "you didn't tell me you're vegan first thing". That's when you get to say "it's stereotypes". Good luck out there!
Love this ;P Yeah in my "real life" it only comes out eventually. And by then...I've already charmed you with my quirky weirdness....or repelled you with it, so it doesn't matter anyways.. 😂
Right on Emily! One of the most important of many great videos you did! One personal thing that I would add about my experience is that although we all, like you said, want to be accepted and liked and feel rejection the experience of veganism teaches us also to be above that to a certain extent. It is one of the gifts that you get when you make that choice - the feeling that even though you care about what people think of you it doesn't define you. You prove to yourself that you can still make the right choice and take the heat. The choice, of course is not between annihilation or total submission to the social norms.
Quite often when I mention I'm a vegan people start to be defensive, and trust me I'm far from trying to attack them
This is very standard. As the studies (and human nature) show, our strongest defenses come from our assumption of judgment. You don't even have to say or do anything judgmental. It's like when someone finds out I don't drink alcohol, they will immediately start qualifying how they don't drink THAT much, etc. It's not limited to veganism by any means!
My vegan autistic neighbor has this REALLY long pacifist pandering speech she gives when people find out. All about how it is her thing and she would never ever dream of forcing it to be their thing. It breaks my heart that she feels that weight. If you hate me I just go on about my day.
I don't even tell people I'm vegan anymore.
@@NiaLaLa_VI'd love to see her speech published online
When people find out I'm vegan. They immediately act like I have said that they are horrible for murdering animals.
They respond to something I haven't said
Likewise, if they find out, I'm a Christian, they say. Oh, you think I'm going to hell.
Well, no, I'm a universalist.
But in both cases you don't have to answer to me
If you're feeling guilty, talk to god, not me
I have been vegan for 9 years now.
I have always found the social aspects of veganism to be, by far, the most difficult part of being vegan.
As we approach the holidays, this will become more apparent.
I never had any great cravings for non-vegan foods, or felt sick or weak or hungry, because of my vegan diet.
For me, the difficult part was always the inconvenience of it, and the societal aspects.
Your'e certainly not alone in this. As the Markowski & Roxburgh focus group study showed, the anticipation of being stigmatized is a huge deterrent to going vegan, and a VERY REAL pain point for existing vegans. There are several studies that spoke to the social cost of going vegan, though many of the researches voiced in their studies that that particular area really deserves further exploration. Because there is a very real cost socially, emotionally, mentally. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism.
The hard part is the spine, it carries the choices we embody : )
Definitely. For me, the hardest aspect of being vegan has been in situations where my choices are limited. For instance, I have an eating disorder, and finding treatment programs which accommodate vegans is next to impossible, especial if you need a higher level of care. It can be so frustrating trying to those with an anti-vegan bias that veganism is not disordered, restrictive, or a negative lifestyle choice.
True.
I was Vegan in Fort Worth.
Cowtown.
If you have a big family.... it can be tougher.
You gotta be yourself, screw the rest of the world... unless your preaching to them or blocking traffic in protests, you have a right to be here.
Same
In addition to being the only vegan in my family, it's pretty obvious that most vegans are women, and I'm a man. There is an even greater stigma attached to men who are vegan. I am also an old guy and there's a stigma attached to old people. You know what? I don't give a damn. I am who I am. I've got no support, including from my wife and children and I wear it proudly. I don't think I'm better, I know I've done plenty of not great things, but I'm trying to be the best I can be, now and that's all I can do.
Cool that you don't give a damn and just do what is right. It's a trait of a strong integral person.
Thank you for sharing this. You are correct that the studies DO show that male vegans are viewed more negatively than female vegans. That was one of the MANY details I wasn't able to fit into the video for the sake of time. So you do face that additional bias, as well as ageism. I'm delighted to hear your attitude and glad you have such resilience. There are studies I read and have in my bibliography that speak more to perceptions of masculinity and veganism. Two are "Meat, morals, and masculinity" and "Real men don’t eat (vegetable) quiche: Masculinity and the justification of meat consumption. You can find them in my bibliography: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/#bibliography
❤excellent and informative presentation Emily❤thank you for all your hard work and attention to detail - you ROCK woman
You sir,
Are awesome
🌱❤️💪
It takes strength to be Vegan
I don’t know your age (I am a 62 year old man) but do recognise that my family and all my peer group view my veganism as extremely odd at best. It is not uncommon for many to share really bad jokes directed against vegans. I still hear an occasional one in my presence - always from someone who has no clue that I am vegan. Normally one of my friends points out that I am vegan and the look I get is hilarious. It is as if I have grown a second head in front of them.
But they never ask why I am vegan……odd that!
I'm terrified of rejection and being hated or looked down upon, so i almost never talk about veganism even though it's something I'm so passionate about and it's a big part of my belief system
You're not alone, it's quite common, just keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with you and people who would hate you, they just try to defend themselve. Just be yourself, stay passionated, if people can't stand you for this then they don't deserve to have you in their life 😉
Rejection is protection. I would not want animal abusers to accept me.
Yep, and that makes it hard to be a Vegan because people don't get it. It is distressing to the point of absurdity. I no longer like being a human and would prefer to be on another planet with only health-conscious, hyper-intelligent, mostly sexy, vegans.
Vulcan > Vogon
Your feelings are very normal, but you should also know, that your can overcome those fears and care much less what other people think. This can be achieved through psychological work on yourself, therapy, work with believes. There are a lot of ways which you can learn about. Getting rid of those feelings makes life sooo much easier! And of course it allows effective activism
You are NOT alone. MANY of the studies I read talk about this. I wasn't able to get into that side in this video and article as I needed to keep it as focused as possible, but I do hope to address it in its own video and article at some point. MANY vegans preemptively anticipate being judged and rejected and therefore don't mention being vegan. As you saw in the video, even NON-VEGANS anticipate rejection if they were vegan. And it's not an unrealistic worry to have. Know you are NOT alone. And that you also don't have to feel that if you aren't talking about it you are somehow failing. I hope that maybe there is some help in hearing through this video that the rejection and judgment from non-vegans isn't about you at all (though that doesn't make it any less painful). This is why we need to be more accepting as a society...not only for people already vegan, but it would also make it more welcoming for others who currently wouldn't consider it due to their own fear of rejection.
You are not alone, my friend.
PS - If you do want to see a scientific study on this, this is one I consulted: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666321006267/pdfft?md5=aca42a6e95b900e4ae46cd7be1140ae7&pid=1-s2.0-S0195666321006267-main.pdf
Love that you are digging into original research topics, and not just the usual ones 💚
Thank you :) Yes I'm really finding a shift in my focus lately with a lot of what I've been reading and researching... I'm really glad you appreciate this direction!
They wouldn't want to go vegan because they are concerned that they would be treated the same way they treat or see vegans. 🙄
this sounds insane but nobody wants to be the black sheep. So many of these people would just follow the society "norm" even if that means going against their values. This is actually a problem that I feel is not talked about enough and causes tons of problems. It's like the children in school who team up with bullies so they don't get bullied
@@Bricefrihato be fair these are likely not the same people that treat vegans poorly. There are a lot of non vegans.
It is a very strong deterrent. And it's a very painful reality for many vegans. Rejection from friends and family is devastating. Many vegans struggle with this. So it makes complete sense that it's a deterrent to going vegan. This is why it's so important for us as a society to be more accepting-even those who aren't going vegan themselves...if we as a society are more open-minded, then the stigma of being vegan will lessen and people will feel more welcome to make a change.
@@BiteSizeVegan I showed my girlfriend who is 99 percent vegan(she prefers a lot of the products and has realized it makes her sick to eat non vegan...but she will eat non vegan with her family and friends and she also can't cook well 😂) but hasn't made the full transition. She told me after watching your video that she agreed. She said "If the world was designed for vegans, and not being vegan was "weird" and they faced the same difficulty finding restaurants etc. I'd be more willing to commit to that lifestyle..."
Makes sense to me. I know carnists who are applying that to so many parts of their lives. I stopped being friends with a woman because she was always saying she has anxiety attacks because people might judge her the way she judges everybody else all day. It was so ridiculous to hear every day.
Emily, what a profoundly insightful analysis of the complex inner-workings that underly the animosity toward vegans. I cannot imagine the amount of time, care, and consideration you put into this. You've taken a very polarizing matter and delivered it so thoughtfully and with great compassion and balance. And you've also managed to convey very dense scientific research in a way that will makes sense to anyone, yet doesn't sacrifice the depth of the research with oversimplification! I'm truly blown away... What a monumental resource for all of us. As you've said, the more we can understand one another and bring down our defenses, the more we can meaningfully communicate. Well, I am going to go dive into the article as I'm sure you've put SO much more effort and information there as well (as always!!). I'm so grateful for this contribution to the world.
Anesh, I'm truly touched and quite moved by your words. This was indeed an epic undertaking about two months in the making! It's really a battle to find a way to summarize so much research without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience. And also attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media, while also being very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication. Thank you so much again for your kind feedback!
I was going to say, I can't imagine how much effort you put into this. Thank you. @@BiteSizeVegan
i completely second this comment. well put
Outstanding video!
@@lydiadailey7 Thank you so much!
Its true, when I first heard Gary Yourofsky talk, I thought he wasnt a good person and came off as rude.
Truth is, he was only speaking facts and it was dissonance within myself that caused the judgment. Gary Yourofsky holds such a special place in my heart now, I have so much respect for him.
That makes a great deal of sense. We reflect onto the "messenger" our discomfort with the "message". And Gary holds a special place in my heart as well :)
Since I have been vegan for 6 years I've noticed that i dont get invited to friends anymore as they think i have to eat "Special" food . i get the same hate from ppl who dont like my Electric car. The hate comes from the meat and oil industries and the media as they pay the advertising.
A lady today asked me why im single i told her i think its because im vegan socialist and want the UK to become a Republic as i think having a family as Head of State is wrong . i go against everything that most ppl considere "Normal" .
Great video , thank you .
I'm sorry to hear you've had this experience. You're certainly not alone in it. The fear of the "other", resistance to those breaking social norms and the "do-gooder derogation" all are in play... Of course understanding the psychology behind it doesn't mean it's necessarily any less challenging to be on the receiving end.
Vegan socialist. I’m afraid you will stay single
This made me realize that I've been able to easily become vegan because I'm a rather introverted and marginal person and don't mind what people, friends and family think of me.
That's a real super-power in life, truly!
same, went vegan like a week after i found out what it even is, i had nothing stopping me, and i think this is the reason
I feel so lucky my friends, family and colleagues respect my veganism. Maybe people are "protecting their moral sense of self" by making sure there are vegan options (i.e. "I'm not a vegan, but I want everyone to feel included"). Or they are just considerate people.
I think they are just considerate. As I say at the end of this video, the more accepting we can be a a society, the more welcome people will feel to make a change themselves. The more people see that vegans aren't stigmatized, mocked and attacked, the less fear of rejection there will be around exploring making a change. Even if someone isn't going to go vegan themselves, they can actually contribute to the overall progression of veganism by not stigmatizing vegans. In being open and welcoming, they contribute to a social change of destigmatizing veganism and making it more welcoming for others. PLUS, there is something to be said that for non-vegans, seeing another non-vegan being accepting of vegans carries more weight than a vegan advocating for acceptance.
Frequently, if I’m going to a potluck, I’ll intentionally make a vegan or vegetarian dish to pass. Just because I know how difficult it is to find something to eat at those kinds of get togethers. I’m not vegan or vegetarian anymore, but I remember how it was. I think it’s just a nice thing to do. 😃
Yes to all of this! And thanks for all of the hard work you put into these videos!@@BiteSizeVegan
🤯 This video (and article) have been *_two months_* in the making! Please *_share this with others_* to encourage understanding and more effective communication. For an even deeper dive into the science, be sure to check out the article: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/ (For the *_OTHER SIDE_* of vegan hate: ua-cam.com/video/YaOvqD5UgO8/v-deo.html )
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Another great video. Thanks for all you've done for other species over the years. I put your page at the end of my book for suggested viewing. My comment about the video is that fearing being judged is a sign of narcissism, which unfortunately is rampant.
❤
Vegans and vegetarians as a category are looked down upon, but consider this- Some widely admired people who chose not to eat meat- Pythagoras, Socrates, Leonardo da Vinci, Voltaire, Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Nikolai Tesla, Albert Einstein, Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, George Bernard Shaw, Tolstoy, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thoreau, Saint Francis of Asisi, Nobel laureate and holocaust survivor Isaac Bashevis Singer, and many more. Some on this list switched late in life, but stayed on it to the end.
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Einstein (Of course today, he would be vegan. So would the others on this list.)
The famous Professor of Physics Brian Greene is vegan. You may have seen him on PBS hosting science shows for the layman. Jane Goodall recently went from a long time vegetarian to vegan. Greta Thunberg is vegan. Jon (Daily Show) Stewart is not only vegan, he owns a farm animal sanctuary!
No thanks. No likes and no shares here .
It’s so funny because I was just discussing with a couple of vegan friends this very topic and like 10 mins later I saw your video pop up! Spot on!! Thank you for all your hard work! My husband and I are were so happy when you started making videos again. You were one of our 1st regular channels to watch when we went vegan almost 8 years ago! Best decision of our lives! ❤️
I'm so honored!! Thank you so much for sharing this with me...and what great timing for the topic! I'm so glad you found this helpful. I do hope it serves as a lasting resource.
❤
You got vegan friends? How I envy you.
Anytime you stand up for what's right, you're going to have haters. Great video!
I was vegan and my in-laws relentlessly taunted and criticized me so I went back to vegetarian just to appease others. However I have gained weight and I’m less happy so screw them, I’ll start doing what I know is best for my body and the animals. Thanks Emily ❤
So good that you're getting back on to your values!
It's very very useful to learn to ignore other people's judgements and do what is right. It can be done through various psychotherapy techniques.
I'm vegan but I don't tell people that anymore, now I say I'm vegetarian, people seem to be less afraid of vegetarians 😅
And if I go to social event involving food, ie Thanksgiving, I bring my meal with me and sometimes vegan appetizers for others to enjoy ❤
You are not alone in this! The vegetarians in the focus group study I highlighted also shared that (even though they earlier were saying how judgy vegans were), they were able to empathize with how much worse vegans must be treated given the crap they got for "just being vegetarian". Vegetarianism is more accepted. And your'e not alone in yielding to the pressures of others. It's human and understandable to not want to be mocked and criticized. You may find reading that full study to be validating. I have it linked in my bibliography on the article, but I think the Full Text isn't available at the journal link. Feel free to reach out to me through my website and I’d be happy to email you the PDF: bitesizevegan.org/contact/ (It's the study "“If I became a vegan, my family and friends would hate me:” Anticipating vegan stigma as a barrier to plant-based diets").
@@BiteSizeVegan funny, when I was vegetarian and contemplating on going vegan, my obstacle was not that my family would hate me, but that I would hate them if I go vegan ))
Don’t give in to the peer pressure. You got this. I believe in you.
They hate having their hypocrisy exposed.
Yep. This is why I've learned to say, "Let me just say I don't think that you or anyone else is a bad person for eating meat..." before I answer any questions about why I'm having the veggie burger or not eating the pizza they made. Additionally, when someone I know gets frustrated that they're not getting through someone else's cognitive dissonance on an issue all I have to say is, "Hey I'm vegan and you know how your stomach just clenched and you wanted to attack me merely for saying that..."
Love this. Thank you so much for sharing!
Damn, this is just a great video. So articulate, so much common sense, but it's really good to have it presented as scientific research.
Wow thank you! That means the world to me. And I agree about the common sense....it was interesting getting into all these studies, because they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
OMG 😳 This is spot on and how…
I have been vegan for many years and constantly face societal backlash, loneliness, isolation but it is a small price to pay for living in line with my thought process.
Are you white by any chance?
@@charles9489No I’m Indian. Although vegetarians are common here but unfortunately the sad reality of the dairy industry is not seen by the vast majority. So being vegan in India is still not so easy.
Great stuff! When I first went vegan I was convinced that most non-vegans were resistant because of price and convenience, but the more I read and think about the issue, the more I think social factors are the primary causal influence.
I actually did a video called "Influencers CAN'T Veganize the World...Here's Why" that touches on this, which you might be interested in.
Rice and beans, real expensive. I found a low sodium diet actually far more restrictive than just a vegan. But the low sodium was more effective at reducing blood pressure.
My husband and I are vegans. We took an omnivore friend to a vegan restaurant and she loved the food there. She proudly told the waiter, who was serving us, that she was a part time vegan, he told her she either was a vegan or she wasn’t and she got so upset about it. I mean really upset! He was right. She is not and was not a vegan. But did his comment make her want to become a vegan? No! Would a 👍 from him be more encouraging for her? Maybe.
Once I read a comment under a UA-cam video from a vegan who was saying he was the real vegan because he was doing it for health reasons 🙄, according to him real vegans are those who do it for health reasons only. He was talking really badly about those of us who are vegans for the animals. He was talking about us as if we were fanatics, he was distancing himself from us and from environmental vegans. So yes, we can be so tribal and righteous that we actually cause more damage to our cause than we realise.
I am guilty of this myself. Thanks for the video. Definitely a lot to think about 🤯🤔
These are GREAT "in the wild" examples of what's called "horizontal hostility" or "intragroup bias" within the veg*n spectrum. This can be a particularly destructive force. And it's more of the very same psychology that drives anti-vegan bias within non-vegans. That's why I really tried to keep bringing the point home that this is ALL OF US. Vegans can get very upset about hate from non-vegans, but we too are human and will manifest the same things. Just as much as we need to be more accepting of veganism on a societal level, the vegan community can benefit from extending to one another within our own community what we desire from the greater society.
And yeah...would have been nice had the waiter been encouraging. Sounds like your friend was genuinely enthusiastic about her new experience!
If you're interested in more of the science on the intragroup bias, you can check out citations #34 and #35 on the article (this will jump you to the citations: bitesizevegan.org/the-science-of-why-people-hate-vegans/#citations ) for two studies on this. Though there are plenty more.
Respect to that waiter for giving her the truth. If she couldn't handle it, it's on her.
Nailed it. Recently I was chatting with a woman on a dating app and it was going well so I asked what were deal breakers for her and there were about 5 including drug addict and vegan 😄😅😂🤣 . Thanks for the edutainment and peace and positivity to everyone.
Wow.
Oh no the double whammy deal breaker! That's so on the nose to the study I mentioned it's hilarious :D Thanks for sharing and glad you enjoyed the video!
Literally, when I told my mom I wanted to create a group of friends that were vegan, she immediately told me, "That's like saying a drug addict wants to be friends with drug addicts." I was like, "Did you just compare me to a drug addcit?" Now it makes sense 😅
@@Lili-xq3og ya kinda wild eh
People are often surprised when I tell them how much negative attitude I get from others for being vegan. I don't even have to say anything. Even if I'm at a social gathering and I quietly pass on the plate of turkey, others at the table will immediately engage with me on why I'm not eating the meat. And if you end up being forced to respond out of politeness chances are high that because you responded to their enquiry at the table you will be labeled a preachy vegan and not invited to the next social gathering. It's a weird social trap that is very difficult to avoid. This has happened to me repeatedly over the years, regardless of how much I try to avoid this kind of situation
Being vegan really does have a social cost. As the Markowski & Roxburgh focus group study showed, the anticipation of being stigmatized is a huge deterrent to going vegan, and a VERY REAL pain point for existing vegans. There are several studies that spoke to the social cost of going vegan, though many of the researches voiced in their studies that that particular area really deserves further exploration. Because there is a very real cost socially, emotionally, mentally. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism. I hope to do a video sometime focusing on the cost to vegans as you're right-many people don't understand the severity of it for many vegans.
That's like being forced to drink light beer,... the dirt looks thirsty.
As a 3+ year Vegan, this video made me cry. Firstly, this video is an absolute treasure trove of amazing analyses and insights into Vegan psychology. I will be referencing this video a lot in my activism. It’s clear you put your heart and soul into this and the flow charts were a much needed addition.
Secondly, this video handed me the bittersweet truth as to why I constantly feel so damn lonely as a Vegan. At first, I felt lonely because I always thought everyone was judging me, but then I realized that I feel lonely because everyone is really just judging themselves and projecting it onto me. Most people don’t want to change and I don’t like to be friends with those people. Even though I try my best to remind myself that the hatred I get is simply a reflection of the omnivorous mind and that I speak on behalf of the animals, I can’t deny that it’s still hatred toward me nonetheless, and it hurts. It’s nice to know that scientific studies prove this and I love how you put a positive twist on it in the end. It’s very easy to make it an us vs them, but reality is so much more nuanced than that and you showcasing that is so sweet. Thank you for this amazing video.
Wow. This comment means more to me than I can possibly tell you. I did truly pour my whole self into this over the last 2 months. And I, too, was brought to tears many times in the process...primarily from just the sheer weight of human anguish, animosity, distress, fear, misunderstanding, and more than anything the fact that so much of the pain comes from pain... So much of hurting people comes from our own wounds. And I just want so badly for us all to be able to hold space for all our wounded parts and find our shared humanity there.
You are not alone in your feelings of isolation and loneliness. Knowing the reasons behind people's behavior doesn't necessarily mean that behavior hurts any less. There are very real costs to being vegan. I was worried in this video and article that I was shortchanging that side of it all. But I had to purposefully keep as focused as I could on the premise (why people hate vegans vs getting too deep into the vegan side)...otherwise this would be a 40 hour video! Even with that "narrow" focus, there is so much I didn't get to!
But I do hope in the future to make a video/article on the costs of veganism. Because they are very real. And within several of the studies I read, researches noted how that is an area that deserves more research and attention. It can be devastating for existing vegans, and stop others from considering veganism. This is why it's so vital that we as a society become more accepting and open...even if not going vegan, refusing to stigmatize people who are is itself an act that would collectively move forward veganism.
I'm truly honored by your thoughtful consideration and response to this video. And I do feel your pain. I do always make an effort to bring a positive thread into what I convey...even in those studies demonstrating bias and negativity. I want to find those threads...but I feel the weight of it all.
@@BiteSizeVegan Thank you for being so open and vulnerable here in your comments section. I am honored you gave me such a heartfelt reply! I feel you, quite a lot. In fact I thought I was being too dramatic but instead your comment made me realize I am not the only one. I am a much younger and newer Vegan (23 yo, 3.5 years) so I am still finding my community. Thank you for holding this space for us. The point on holding space for feeling our wounds together, even though it’s small and fleeting, this exchange partly fulfilled that need for that space. Thank you.
I don’t think you shortsighted Vegans. I appreciate the narrow focus of the video and definitely look forward to hearing you expand on the Vegan side of things! While I too am hoping for future research on Vegans (and social justice movements and effective activism as a whole), there’s a great book on this topic written by a Vegan Psychologist called Vystopia: The anguish of being vegan in a non vegan world. I think it would make a great reference for your future videos which I am excited to hear your thoughts on!
I am also interested to hear your thoughts on how one should approach non-Vegans during their activism considering the findings you presented here! I can wait two months for another video on these things :)
@thatdaniperson thank you for the book reference. I will certainly look into that! And honored to have provided some space for validating your experience. I just happened to find your second reply, but just want you to know that if I miss any ever, it’s only due to my limitations of keeping up with everything as one person, and never an intentional abandoning of a conversation. I so wish I could follow up on all of them always! Very glad I did catch yours and at a place where I could respond as I’d love to be able to for everyone. You’ve really touched my heart with your own vulnerability. You are not being too dramatic at all. It’s when we don’t honor the intensity of our wounds and what we face that they continue to magnify.
I also just want to say that I don’t know when I’ll be making content on the topics we’ve mentioned. I hate how long it takes for me to get things together :) and I try to allow for some variety. But just wanting to say that if it’s not the next video or few, I’m not forgetting it. I promise!
@@BiteSizeVegan No worries, keep it up - You're awesome!
@@thatdaniperson Thank you so much :) Oh and! As far as "how one should approach non-vegans during their activism" considering the research, in the meantime, I’d really recommend reading Ben De Groeve's research, especially "Ideological resistance to veg*n advocacy: An identity-based motivational account" which gives some thoughts on such considerations. All of his work is available in full PDFS on his website (see the (PDF) links at the end of each article's info): bendegroeve.wordpress.com/articles/
This reminds me of when you came up with "I don't care" being the only valid argument against veganism because if you don't care we can't make you care. But nobody has ever said that to me. I have heard every justification in the book to eat animals, but not even my friend who thinks he is the biggest jerk on earth says "I don't care if animals die." Nobody feels that. And that is why we are all stuck.
Very interesting stuff. You know that there are many vegetarian and meat eat people that feel guilty and want to be vegan because a lot of people use expressions with me like "I'm mostly vegan"
Absolutely. That's promising, I think. And the more we can societally be more accepting of veganism and transitioning away from eating animals, and the more available we can make plant-based options, the more welcome and able people will feel and be to make that change.
@@BiteSizeVegan amen. Thanks for your great work
We need to convince more people that being kind is not a weakness
Can't wait to watch the rest of this! I actually just posted yesterday about that article mentioning vegans facing the same stigma as drug addicts. Makes sense to me! Especially when you said it's commonplace and socially accepted. No one agrees with us except for other vegans, lol. What a life 😅
Not to mention that these studies have found the exact same things that I have seen and experienced myself over the last 9 years!
Hope you enjoy the whole thing! I really dove in deep...about 2 months of work went into this beast!
You probably have an incredibly addictive personality, you didn't get hooked on drugs but veganism got you. Same result socially
love that you put into words what i thought for so long!
It was interesting getting into all these studies, because they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
I have been vegan for 6 years.
My wife is an omnivore.
A few month's ago she said: "I love animals."
I didn't know what to say.
I didn't want to confront her with her hypocrisy.
I know that I probably should have said something but I totally didn't know how to respond because I was so shocked.
She will leave soon
@raulcolmenero
She won't leave. We accept each other's dietary preferences and never discuss the morality.
Same goes for religion. We know what the other believes and don't discuss it.
@@fpcoleman57interesting, I personally enjoy a good discussion, but there are people that dont
@@kolumbus1754
As regards my wife:
After I was able to overcome my shock I realised that I really didn't want to initiate a very heated and totally irrational argument.
I live in the same house as her and I don't want to provoke a possible divorce at this point in my life.
@@fpcoleman57 yeah I get that, I wasnt talking about a heated discussion tho, more one where you both try to stay calm and get your point across. I seriously doubt that a single heated argument will lead to a divorce tho, but then again I dont know anything about your relationship. All I'm saying is in this regard you are undeniably correct, well unless she is okay being a speciesist. With religion one could argue that it's impossible to know for sure, but we know throughout history what insormountable horriblie things religion has caused..
Thanks for the video, BSV! 🥦
I often forget that when there are people that seem to be upset at me without cause or assume I'm arrogant it's probably me being vegan that plays a significant role in their perception of me
I'm so used to being vegan that I forget I'm different and weird to most people 🙃 which isn't something to take personally, but it's a widespread bias people aren't even thinking through
Best thing we can do is set the example of being kind, understanding, and gentle while remaining as morally consistent as possible ✌️
Love this :) Thank you so much for sharing!
When you go to Five guys & order a veggie sandwich, you better have a gun on your waist. That 400 lb man behind you will find you offensive.
this must have taken so much work Emily thank you
Thank you. It really did! This was a MONSTER to create at every step of the process. Every study was so in-depth and there are so many complex concepts throughout the hundred or so I started with (ended up with a little over 80 in my ending bibliography). It's a battle to find a way to summarize so much without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience...plus attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media...AND be very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication!
WOW... I realize I don't like humans.
LOL.
Thank you, Emily! 💚This is such helpful information, and I appreciate this perspective and will keep it in mind in future interactions with non vegans. Even though I went vegan in 2012, no one else in my family has. Not even vegetarian. It means I always have to bring my own food to any family gathering. But I still love my family, and try to respect their choices, whether I agree or not. It’s very challenging at times.
I'm so glad you found this helpful! That's everything I hoped for with creating this. And I totally understand how you feel. No one in my family is vegan either. But them being accepting and welcoming is still very powerful. The more people see that vegans aren't stigmatized, mocked and attacked, the less fear of rejection there will be around exploring making a change. Even if someone isn't going to go vegan themselves, they can actually contribute to the overall progression of veganism by not stigmatizing vegans. In being open and welcoming, they contribute to a social change of destigmatizing veganism and making it more welcoming for others. PLUS, there is something to be said that for non-vegans, seeing another non-vegan being accepting of vegans carries more weight than a vegan advocating for acceptance.
As a vegan atheist, I definitely notice a hesitance I have around answering certain questions, and a often different temperature in the room when I do.
Thank you for the time and effort you have put into making this video. I don't usually share stuff about veganism - when I do, there is a tumbleweed moment on my feed - but I will share this and see what the response is.
Thank you so much for this! I'm honored. And I hope people do respond well...though always be prepared that the (unfortunate) environment of social media lends itself to people already being primed for conflict. While I strive to be as disarming as possible with my presentation and message (and truly believe it!), sometimes people's defenses rise so quick that they won't even engage with the content, only react to the premise and what they think is being said (as we learned in this video! The anticipated message becomes reality). But I hope that this video will help us all better understand where that comes from. For all of us!
nice analysis! even when I was a hardcore 3 times a day meat eater I still understood (on some level anyway) I had very little (read:no) moral ground to stand on. it was the cognitive dissonance that kept me complacent. that's where all the excuses and frantic google searching for a shred evidence would come in. little painkillers to protect my own ego from the pressure of a perceived threat. I think this is the reason the health angle was what finally pulled me in, and I wasn't fully ready to confront the moral aspects and fully incorporate that into my life until a bit later. I chalk that up to being raised a man but that's beyond the scope of a youtube comment.
if asked, I'd say yes I do think I'm better than meat eaters, but that's far from some targeted statement against A meat eater, it's a recognition of the process that took place to distance myself from the meat eater I was. it's also taking into account that the reasons I was consuming animal products were the same as everyone else's. it's not meant to be read as a sweeping value judgement encompassing all of one's character, but their stance/actions on a particular moral issue. the language of saying that you're better than someone else is harsh, clunky and certainly ill-advised and easily misunderstood, but it IS about a choice and there IS legitimate reason to make that distinction when one of those choices involves harm reduction and the other promotes harm.
all of your actions and beliefs should be confronted, analyzed, understood, their origins traced back to their source to the best of your abilities on your own time. that being said, you can't be surprised when you encounter people who have already done that work on a particular issue and have something to say about it. just try to remember that even if you encounter the most socially inept recently converted "militant" loudmouth out there, it's not about YOU or the burger you're eating even if it seems like it is at the time. you can throw out any justification you'd like to end the conversation on the topic - not only has the other person already heard it, they've probably said it themselves. that's sometimes why they're upset and that's why their language can be so biting; they see an old part of themselves that they can't stand
Wonderful video, as usual! It makes so much sense that we all have fear of rejection and to be cast out of our social circle. We are living in a scenario most people fear for their entire lives. It's interesting too, living in a loneliness epidemic that there's even a greater fear of rejection, so I'm sure perhaps maybe that doesn't help our cause much either. Ugh.. There's so many barriers at play and it's so complex to get around to try to get through to people. Everyone is experiencing so much in their lives and it's such a big "ask" to get them to open their eyes to this gigantic paradigm shift. I dunno, I spend so much time trying to think of the best approach to not have a disappointing encounter when veganism comes up. This is a very good concept I will try to remember before I engage a conversation in the future. Thank-you so, so much ✨💕
I'm honored to hear how deeply you engaged with this video. It's always very rewarding to see people really dig into the content I create (especially after spending 2 months on it!) So I just wanted to voice how much I appreciate that (thank you) :) And I too felt the weight of ALL of that when writing this...it was such a challenge to fin a way to present this while holding in mind the very wounded, lonely, and fearful inner self so many of us carry around with us. I wanted so badly to be able to share the promising commonalities I saw even within all the polarization, defensiveness, negativity, and attacks. I saw it all coming from the shared aspects of our humanity. That everyone is just trying to protect themselves and make it through this world. I know that may sound kinda hippy-dippy in some ways...but I really just wanted to help everyone connect to our humanness.
@@BiteSizeVeganI really love this comment. It really resonates with how I feel about being vegan and wanting everyone to experience it. ❤
Excellent video. I agree 100%. It's sad that people choose to continue to abuse animals because they are scared of being judged.
Tradition and culture are ridiculous, too. Almost anything can be veganized.
I am originally from NY, so I don't really care what people think about me. I'm not afraid of being judged. The animals are more important to me.
And this comment is why people continue to hate vegans.
@@chrisparker2118 I'm not in it for popularity. The animals don't care.
@elizabethelias1005 No, the animals don't care. Tell a cow it's going to die tomorrow, and it'll just keep chewing the cud. Despite the years of programming that gives human attributes to animals, animals don't self reflect and cannot even contemplate life or death.
@@chrisparker2118Nope. You hate the fact that you think you’re good person, but also contribute to animals suffering. Just change for the better.
@elizabethelias1005 That's right, the animals don't care because their animals.
Really great research and summary. Your videos are always thoughtful and honest.
Thank you so much! So glad to hear it..I really poured my all into this.
Wow! What a fantastic video, super interesting. I´ve been vegan for 4 years now, and I never understood why people got so defensive...until now! And yes, let's focus on being a supportive community instead of a judging one! This is the way
So thrilled that this was helpful for you! That was my goal :) I do think that understanding the reasons behind defenses (on all sides) can help diffuse the charge. :)
This is SO BRILLIANT, Emily. You've done us all such a service in pulling together the data from numerous studies to explain the deep-seated psychological reasons for social aggression towards ethical vegans and vegetarians. And your finding--that that aggression amounts to a reaction formation--is truly illuminating. It confirms what many of us suspected but didn't quite know. And you're right: many people, if not most, hate vegans because they just don't want to think that they are harming animals. Thanks for doing the important work.
Thank you so much. This is so encouraging to hear! This was a MONSTER to create at every step of the process. Every study was so in-depth and there are so many complex concepts throughout the hundred or so I started with (ended up with a little over 80 in my ending bibliography). It's a battle to find a way to summarize so much without oversimplifying the science, but not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience...plus attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media...AND be very mindful of all audiences. I wanted to present this in a way that was as disarming as possible to everyone as none of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up! I really do hope this video and article help foster understanding and communication!
Definetly not beacuse they are the most annoying people ever and dont do anything but shove their lifestyle in your face while judging and looking down on you
@@timantonsenforfaen355you're imposing death and slavery on animals and shoving your lifestyle on them
Greed and hate is highly associated with meat consumption in history. We cannot underestimate the power of Animal Agriculture. It is a highly deceptive and oppresive industry
This was an awesome video to take in, Emily. Very informative, good job on everything you do 💖
Thank you so much! I truly appreciate it ;)
I just joined a new company. After a week, they finally found out that I am vegan (while having an evening snack). And I know, I am already under scanner and I can feel it. Anyways, most office staff doesn't even know what 'vegan' means. And this is what vegan means to them;
Vegans are of 'Extra Pure Veg' category. They don't even drink Milk. They don't eat cake on Birthday Parties, they don't eat snack biscuits. They don't eat 'Ghee Rice', They don't drink Tea/ Coffee, No Sweets of any sort. Their life is boring and we should keep them away as they don't Mingle up and enjoy with rest of us.
But still, they are all very kind people. They are very supportive at work.
Most of them are Vegetarians by default due to their family culture. Lets see, how long can I make it. This video made some heart touching points.
I'm glad to hear they are supportive. I do hope that continues to be the case. And yes, what you've said is a widely shared experience-that vegetarianism is seen as more acceptable but veganism is a step too far... Many of the studies spoke to this as well. I do hope you have a supportive environment. I know how challenging that can be!
@@BiteSizeVegan Yup!...We all have/had to face. Veganism is really a big Challenge to live with. I will make it as long as I breathe 👍
Very well articulated! As a currently lapsed vegan/ vegetarian, I learned early on in my veganism that any hate coming my way was because of what I represented rather than anything about myself or my diet. However I felt less attacked by non vegans than in the company of vegans- approaching non harming animals from the reductionist mindset will always propel you towards a negative attitude towards your own species and your own existence becomes problematic, so you of course seek to point out other’s deficiencies in’being a true vegan’. It has the same undercurrent as communism if not watched with self compassion.
Great video as usual Em.! Thanks for all the hours of work you always put into it.
Thank you so much!
One reason I moved from a small rural town to a coastal suburb of a major city because some of the locals in my old hometown were outright hostile to vegans and vegetarians.
This video is amazing! Thank you so much for that. I am Brazilian and here the meat culture is so prevalent even the nicest person becomes conflicted even if I say absolutely nothing about haha just eat my vegs in front of them becomes something hahaha and this helps a lot to deal with this THANK YOU SO MUCH for this
You are SO very welcome. I'm so honored to hear this was helpful for you! Sending much love!
Too many vegans in comments worrying about non vegans mocking, judging and challenging them. Seriously?! Be proud of your kind heart. Always raise your voice for animals. Don't ever apologize for doing the right thing.
I just found your channel and I love it! thank you for taking the time to make incredibly informative videos 💕
Yay! I'm so thrilled you found me and really hope you find the content helpful :) I'm honored.
Damn!
Where have you been?
Better late than never.
Welcome to our legendary Vegan Bitesize Emily!🤗
I went plant based this summer for health reasons. I seem to have developed something where eating meat caused digestive issues, and since I was already lactose intolerant, it wasn’t that hard to remove all animal products from my diet. The only judgement-free places I’ve experienced when I’ve disclosed my dietary change was with my husband and with my doctor. It’s just easier to stay quiet and hope you won’t get the “where do you get your protein” question or the side-eye from others.
The video and comments got me reflecting on how I approach people in my daily life. I rarely, if ever, tell people I'm vegan, though I of course don't hesitate to when asked. I instead try to cultivate casual (or not-so-casual) anti-speciesism at all times through how I act and speak in relation to animals.
I love your videos so much! The insight that the ones who care the most (but lack the courage to act) will be the most defensive is something I could probably have told you from my own experience but hearing it explained so clearly makes it a lot more actionable. Thank you! You continue to do amazing work and you're making the world a better place.
Thank you so much! This means the world to me :) And yes I had the same thought....as I was getting into all these studies, I found they essentially put into data points the conclusions I'd already come to in my own experience and have even said in many videos and speeches. Interesting to see it all validated through science ;D
thank you so much for making this video! I'm studying my final year of my masters in integrated product design and break downs of behavioral psychology such as to why people struggle with topics as these are one of my favorite aspects of my field! Hopefully I get do design solutions to these kind of challenges in the future!
So thrilled to hear this was helpful. That sounds like a fascinating field! I'm excited for you :)
Very well said Emily. Throughout my vegan journey I have seen all the different ways that vegan animal rights activists conduct their animal activism. A disruptive animal rights activist named Tash Peterson has gotten a lot of animosity from the public in her country Australia. I actually like her a lot along with Gary Yourofsky, Edward Winters and Joey Carbstrong. I think they all do an amazing job of standing up for animals. I also find that I am better able to see more eye to eye with each of them. It’s been interesting seeing how others got aggressive towards them, while others were tolerating them in their vegan outreaches. Vegans are only trying to educate people about how their dietary choices and lifestyles are negatively impacting the planet, humans and non human animals. There’s really no threat, it’s just their guilty conscious that vegans are simply pointing out.
Thank you for this very concise and thoroughly-researched video! This has been my intuition as well, as an ethical vegan that generally avoids disclosing this or delving into the topic if they take note of my restaurant order. Your mere existence implicitly challenges omnivores' morals, even if that's not your intention. Sadly, in general we humans are deeply social creatures primarily motivated by emotions and social factors rather than dispassionate ethical analysis.
You are so very welcome. And I'm honored to hear it was helpful. I too found in the studies so much of what I’d already come to intuitively through my experiences..and even said many times in videos and speeches. And then there is the data to back it up...
I’m to the point where I don’t even mention I’m vegan because I hate the responses I get. I used to be so open about it and loved telling people I’m vegan but wow, it’s too much. It’s so sad because I feel like I’m not speaking for the animals but really just want to not argue everyday 🙄
Super interesting vid, Emily! If you ever want to hop onto a livestream or a podcast with me in future to discuss these findings, let me know! 💚
Thank you so much :) And I'd be happy to talk about it with you. Podcast would be most doable for me. Would you mind sending me a contact form through my website in case I miss replies on this comment? I'm kinda crap at tracking them! bitesizevegan.org/contact/ (you can use the "Other" option for simplicity on it...I'll keep an eye out for you)
I’ve never had any issues with vegans/vegetarians. I’ve had some vegan friends. I would often eat at restaurants chosen by them, since it was harder to accommodate their dietary preferences. A close friend of mine would regularly make disparaging remarks and quips about omnivores (ie. “the disgusting smell of chicken she was eating in my vicinity was making me nauseous”), wouldn’t let me use her dinnerware because she couldn’t handle the idea of animal products having been eaten off them (yet she had several cats, all of whom ate canned food out of actual bowls). In other words, while I’ve never looked down upon veganism as lifestyle choice, I’ve certainly had my fair share of explicit and implicit judgments thrown my way by vegans.
Putting the science in the "it's not me, it's your conscience"
i've never personally seen studies on this, but i theorize that people who are already treated as "outcasts" by wider society have an easier time going vegan because they care less about others' approval. for instance, i am autistic and have been excluded from social activities all my life. the social reaction to me being vegan was not a strong deterrent for me. my partner, on the other hand, has been accepted and loved by wider society all his life. he only recently committed to being vegetarian, and he expresses to me that it's very difficult when he's with his friends. i suspect his high social standing makes it much more difficult for him to do something against the status quo
Excellent presentation and interesting information about the existing studies that can explain this hate. The disconnect is a coping mechanism as holding simultaneous beliefs of not wanting to hurt animals and unnecessarily having to kill them for food can’t coexist. The reaction is very strong and it can translate into a strong emotion like hate.
That's certainly one of the drivers. And I think the more well-known ones. I found the socially-driven reasons quite fascinating as well. Though everything still ties back into everything else!
My first reaction was, "I don't hate vegans!" But listening to the video that makes sense. I'm actually not a good person and I don't care if animals are killed for my nutrition. Therefore I don't feel judged and guilty in the presence of vegans and I don't have a reason to hate them.
You learn something new about yourself every day...
Thank you so much for taking the time to research and create this video! It was so informative and interesting!
You're so very welcome! It was a MONSTER to put together...about 2 months in the making. I'm thrilled to hear it was helpful!
This is very insightful. For me, it's gotten to the point where I don't bring up that I"m Vegan any more. Especially in the workplace. I've experienced out right hate, discrimination and abuse for being Vegan.
This is fascinating. I can relate to both sides of this - both pre and post becoming vegan. I think the lesson here is to be less judgemental of others. I have to remind myself that I once had no ethical qualms with animal agriculture, and didn’t even see it as cruelty towards animals, nor the exploitation of them.
So glad you found this interesting. And it's beautiful that you can stay connected to your pre-vegan time. Many vegans lose sight of that, which makes it difficult to engage with non-vegans. It's lovely that you remind yourself of where you once were.
I never gave it any thought.!
But 15 years ago I red a book call "The Face On Your Plate" and immediately went vegan, and continue researching the impact of animal agriculture, traced it back to the colonization of my homeland. I am not a person who worries about what others think, and I started writing on social media, my findings and there I found that it was disturbing for others, and I wasn't writing "Go Vegan" I was writing how that the animal agriculture industry is directly connected to white supremacy.
I still don't take others into consideration, maybe it's because I grew-up as an Urban-feral and had very little supervision from my single parent native american mother.
I am very happy that you shared this information with us and will share it, only thinking about the animals.
Thank you!
So glad that this was helpful!
Interesting perspectives indeed Emily, great video thanks for sharing.🌱🧠🌅☘️
Thank you so much!
Brilliant video. Can't wait to dive into the article.
Thank you so much! I hope you ejoy(ed) the article. Thank you for checking it out! I put so much into the articles but know most don't go to them :)
What a superb analysis dear Emily. Giving the vibe of being open minded (easiest if you are really are!) is the balm for all. Most humans crave acceptance.
❤
Thank you so very much! And yes, it is so important... Environments like social media tend to have people primed for conflict, so it's additionally challenging to lower defenses enough that they can even see there is open-mindedness and acceptance :) The more we can collectively convey this, the more all sides can communicate.
Once certain folks find out I'm vegan they ensue with mocking/questioning what I'm eating. It's childish. I would never harass others about what's on their plate, and they only know I'm vegan when they see my food and ask what it is and/or why I'm not eating the pizza, BBQ, etc. This notion that vegans go around telling everyone they're vegan is actually vegan folks responding to questions about what they're eating/not eating rather than vegans arbitrarily telling people "I'm vegan". When they press me about my choice to be vegan, I tell them about the horror and abuse animals suffer and that I want no part of it. My advice to non-vegans who don't want to hear about the animal abuse and horrific suffering, don't ask questions that you don't want the answers to.
"You might just be a good person" 😂 love this, you're so epic
Ha :) thanks... I was pretty happy with that one.
It's so funny... despite being omnivore you can still be a good person. You might. It's not sure, but you might qualify... That's what she's saying... and that isn't judgemental? And condescending? That doesn't place you vegans as moraly superior, deciding who is and who isn't a decent human being based on your veganstandards? What do you expect in return?
@@anamariadominguez9082 the first friend I ever made in life when I was a little bitty kid ended up on a different path and murdering someone when he was a teenager. Over 25 years later he just got out of prison. And despite perhaps one of the most horrific things someone could do, I still call him my friend and I think he ultimately is a good person deep down inside. And I know with all of my heart he would never get in that kind of situation again. I think every one of us is quintessentially good, deep down inside. But not all of us let that come out and instead we push it down and cover it up with indifference, hate and violence. I mean good people do bad things and perhaps they don't know it. Bad people do bad things and perhaps they know it. Eating animals is bad and once you know it's up to you to stop to be the person you ultimately want to be.
I don't end up announcing I'm vegan a lot of the time and just try and slip by undetected. I'm reserved and just find it easier that way. The world has some impression vegans love to shout it from the roof tops, so this has helped me understand that disparity better. Helpful video, thanks 👍
Really interesting video Emily! What we have in common is so much more important that what divides us.
Absolutely... and at a crazier level still...it's what we have in common that DOES divide us...but the more we can recognize that, the less divisive it becomes :)
I'm the only vegan I know. The worst harassment I've experienced was a woman telling me I was gay for being vegan. She also poked fun at me occasionally hinting that I wasn't a "Real Man" .The same girl was very liberal and had a gay best friend. Odd. I wasn't very upset. People only reveal themselves when they speak in such a way. My idea of masculinity, or just being a good person, is doing the right thing even if it means you walk alone against the herd.
Great video. Social barriers are some of the biggest barriers to a vegan world. We need to make it socially unacceptable to eat animals, and make veganism the social norm.
vegans (like her) don’t exist
Just so you know, I am briefly using your comment in a video I'm creating to promote Bite Sized Vegan's channel.
Been there done that. I grew up omnivore. I tried raw vegan, vegan, and vegetarian diets. I tried keto and carnivore. I've settled on omnivore, I eat everything but focus on high protein (animal products) and low carb. I don't hate vegans. I'm just repelled by the ones who are evangelistic zealots, like the religious nuts. Ugh! You do you and I'll do me. Thankyouverymuch.
I am not a vegan but when I first met my wife she was a vegan and all of her friends were too! I had no trouble with the diet but the friends man, the friends. These people were hyper judgmental and preachy. It was just too much. And I sat through so many “killing animals” porn which was just exhausting. I was not ever attacking anyone, I was being attacked every second I was in contact with what I can only describe as religious zealots. Having come from a cult myself when I was a child, I have deep sympathy for people who are very religious because they are swept up in it all but I don’t care for extremism. These days I just ask that people learn to live and let live.
How I feel too. I literally could care less what someone shoves in their mouths. It's how they treat others that matters. The extremists often turn off people from one group or another. If I had someone come up to me and kindly say "may I talk to you about veganism" and then take a "no" with gracefully then I might be more inclined to listen later. The opposite is also true of course. Omnivores need to be kinder to vegans as well. However if im being told I'm a "shitty person for x, y , and z reasons" then I'm immediately going to shut down and not listen. Not that I can be vegan even if I wanted to (for health reasons) but I do still hear it even though it's something beyond my control
I saw a vampire spit out the blood of a vegan, saying, I hate vegans. Anyone who likes vampire movies knows what I'm talking about.
You are so very good at explaining touchy subjects, without offending. Amazing skills, which you have obviously worked hard at developing. Your work and thoughtful reasoning is appreciated.❤
Thank you so much. I truly, truly appreciate this. I spent the last 2 months on this video and article and agonized greatly over how to navigate this. I had to find a way to summarize over 80 studies without oversimplifying the science, but also not be so dense that it's too much for a general audience. AND attend to pacing and attention span of digital content and social media, and the video vs the article AND be very mindful of ALL audiences, and how non-vegans, vegans, and vegetarians could take every single point...so trying to find the best way to word things that would be the most disarming to EVERYONE SIMULTANEOUSLY... None of us can effectively take in information with our defenses up, so I REALLY worked extremely hard on this one! Thank you for recognizing that :)
I don't hate vegans, I was a (health food) vegetarian for 18 years.
But I DID get sick. The level of carbs I ate wrecked havoc on my body. So I began doing research and after about a year, I very tentatively decided that I needed to try animal protein (meat, not just dairy or eggs). I did and got much better. I did more research and found out so much about grass-fed meat, the dangers of carb farming to animals and habitat, etc.
When I tried to discuss these things with my fellow vegetarian/ vegan friends, I was met with open disdain. Such close-mindedness. I couldn't believe it. Then I realized that I had pretty much been that way myself. I was disgusted at my actions and also was happy to have been able to open my mind long enough to find a better way for MYSELF.
I still love animals. But I also realize that I have an ancestral biology which thrives on meat, AND I realize that there is no living being (or close to none) on this planet that doesn't live due to the death of another form of life.
I don't hate vegans for being vegan. But I do have waning patience for people who shut down conversations out of close mindedness.
Thank you for the extraordinary contents you create!
you're so very welcome. And thank you for the kind words!
It has been my experience as a homeschooling parent (very similar reactions to being vegan) that reactions ranged from resentment to "I could never do that" and everything in between. Reactions to veganism range from resentment to "I love meat too much and could not do without my occasional steak" and everything in between. I also have noticed that for both homeschooling and veganism, many people react as if I was about to try to convince them that they HAD to also homeschool/be vegan. They perceived me as a threat. What I have felt throughout the years is that the main reaction or cause of negative reactions is due to us doing something different from 'the norm'. For some reason, this makes people uncomfortable and I think most of them don't know why. It's a gut reaction. I don't know about the 'good' vs 'bad' people thing, but I have encountered the assumption that we think we're superior because we homeschooled/are vegan. I find it irritating to the extreme that people make assumptions about us based on how they think/react. I have no intention of trying to convince anyone to either homeschool or go vegan because both are choices people need to make for their own reasons and I am not living their lives. I only ever told people about homeschooling or veganism because they asked. It is something we did/do that only affects us.
Open minded! 👏 that’s my take away. Both vegans and non-vegans have to stay open minded in order to get along and understand each other. The more we work to remove the US vs. THEM feels, the better. Thanks Emily for another fantastic video 😊
That is most definitely a key takeaway to this all! Thank you for this thoughtful comment. Means a great deal to see the points come through that I was so hoping to communicate!
while being vegan is the most optimal for environment and not hurting animals, I think vegans should be more supportive of people who just decrease the amount of meat they eat. In the end of the day, it would lead to less animal cruelty, and better health for those individuals, so win win. Being vegan is an extreme approach and that is the reason why people are sceptical, afraid and then angry at veganism, and to expect general population to be committed to such a restrictive diet is unrealistic, and I think vegans should be aware of that. That being said, dietary guidelines are promoting exactly that but it doesn't seem to help people with changing their habits. Still, I think we should look for other solutions to change the world for the better in that aspect.
It's a simple combination selfishness/addiction and cognitive dissonance if you ask me. People struggle with being wrong about something. They struggle even more if they've done it their entire lives, and everyone they know does it too. But that alone can't justify an action, so they usually resort to completely absurd reasoning to defend their unnecessary addiction.
Exactly this.
This is why it is necessary to join a community that supports your vegan choice. It's hard, though not impossible, to make this change alone, and we don't have to with so many online vegan communities to participate in.
What an interesting topic! Thanks for the video!
Wow thank you so much! I really appreciate the support! Truly honored.
Three and a half minutes in, I’ve already nodded so hard that my head popped off.
The whole mental mechanism of vegan-hatred is laid bare.
Goddamn this is good analysis.
Your friend,
Omnivore Who Rates Vegetarians & Vegans As More Virtuous & Moral Than Omnivores
Well thank you so much! I'm honored (though hope your head was able to be successfully reattached) :)
People hate vegans because those people subscribe to a religion. Carnism is a religion... a religion based in ego, violence and domination. How dare you say their beliefs are erroneous! They don't recognize the sovereignty of other sentient beings. It's all ME ME ME, MY desires, MY comforts, MY survival. They don't understand rightful property. The life of a being is its property. No one has the right to take that property. But carnists don't understand this, nor do they care to. Part of them knows that they're wrong, but the ego steps in and puts up a defense, and then they lash out when anyone dares to remind them. They also don't understand the Law of Correspondence. The more we dominate and violate the rights and lives of our animal kin, the more we will be violated and dominated in turn. A more moral diet leads to a more moral life.
The mirror can be very painful to look into.
“Who am I?”
“What am I?”
“How am I?”
Face yourself in the eyes of others.
See yourself in the eyes of animals.
Wake up to your Self.
So happy this was recommended for me! Thank you so much for your hard work! This video is phenomenal and I will be sharing it. 🌱
Thank you so much! I’m so glad you found it and really appreciate the sharing so it can reach more people :)
Resenting people because you would like to do what they are doing, but are not committed enough yet and feel a little guilty
You said it much better.
I was waiting for this video, yes! And this all research gives hope and understanding. That we can reach non-vegans showing them we're not judgemental
I'm so thrilled to hear this :) That's precisely what I was hoping for this to provide.
Thank you! This was most illuminating. I want to respect myself and others, be compassionate and don’t judge. This has helped
Excellent presentation of the topic and very enlightening. Thanks for doing this 😊
Thank you so much and you're so very welcome!
This is why not telling anyone you are vegan works so well.
By the time they find out they already like you and see you as a normal person.
Those who thrive on biases mentioned in the video will be in shock "you didn't tell me you're vegan first thing".
That's when you get to say "it's stereotypes".
Good luck out there!
Love this ;P Yeah in my "real life" it only comes out eventually. And by then...I've already charmed you with my quirky weirdness....or repelled you with it, so it doesn't matter anyways.. 😂
"If vegans went away, then my guilt about eating meat would go away..."
Right on Emily! One of the most important of many great videos you did! One personal thing that I would add about my experience is that although we all, like you said, want to be accepted and liked and feel rejection the experience of veganism teaches us also to be above that to a certain extent. It is one of the gifts that you get when you make that choice - the feeling that even though you care about what people think of you it doesn't define you. You prove to yourself that you can still make the right choice and take the heat. The choice, of course is not between annihilation or total submission to the social norms.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. And for the kind words about my work!