I always knew TES VI would be at least 2026, but just hearing it was still in pre production just flattened me 😂 Being a teenager when Skyrim came out it’s ridiculous, I’ll be in my 30s when we finally get the sequel.
HOTTAKE: It does not matter who wins the war. Be it Thalmor, Empire or Stormcloaks and Redguards. The war will leave all sides depleted of resources and in the 6th elderscrolls its all about how the Orcs rise up with their 3rd construction of Orsinium.
Being able to choose how events played out in Skyrim sounds like a fun idea! Though I wonder how the people would feel about a dark elf Dragonborn empress lmao
Throughout the games, it’s usually been a native to the setting that turns out to be the cannon PC (Dunmer as the cannon Nerevarine, Imperial as the cannon Champion of Cyrodiil/New Sheogorath) So any mention of the PC from Skyrim would canonically be a Nord, but would most likely be ambiguous to fit the player’s head cannon. What will most likely be said will be that The Dragonborn would’ve been last seen on Solstheim around 4E 202 / 203 and has disappeared since.
I still don't understand where the fudgemuppet crew and Drew got the idea that Tiber Septim "faked" being dragonborn. The "Arcturian Heresy" even literally says that Hjalti was revealed to be the actual dragonborn in High Hrothgar because Ysmir Wulfharth was "blasted to ash" by the Greybeards, since only the dragonborn can withstand their voice. The Greybeards literally do the exact same thing to verify that the player character in Skyrim is the real dragonborn, they all shout at you before naming you Ysmir. It also says that during the siege of Old Hroldan, Wulfharth couldn't have been the one to shout down the walls because he was the storm above Hjalti's head that protected Hjalti and his troops from enemy fire while Hjalti was the one to shout down the walls. There is literally nothing in any book in game that would put Talos'/Tiber Septim's status as a dragonborn into question, rather every single version of his story verifies that he was one.
Decisions made in Skyrim will have as much to do with ES6 as the ones made in Oblivion have in Skyrim: almost none other than some statues, book mentions and artifacts carrying on to the next game.
💯 in reality it won't matter because we will be in a new era but it'll still be interesting to find out what happened to all these charectars but imagine them just saying "fuck it we ain't even gonna cover it." 😭
Except the Aldmeri Dominion formed and the Great War and then Skyrim civil war happened because of the Oblivion Crisis. Had it not occured, all those events would've never happened.
@@youtubeshadowbannedme And what part did the player have in any of that? The player in Oblivion is nothing more than Martin's sidekick. The Nerevarine in Morrowind is more important than the Hero of Kvatch in Oblivion. Speaking of Morrowind, how much of Morrowind effected events in Cyrodiil during the Oblivion Crisis? Or even better, how about that Dragon Break, that ultimate example of "who cares what you did, everything that could happen did happen" which replaces the multiple endings of Daggerfall? Nothing. Nothing you, as the player, do matters as far as the next game in the Elder Scrolls. The main story will always happen, then the PC will disappear into legend, only to be replaced with the next game's PC.
My friend, Drew. This is once again a truly remarkable "telling". I know it is just "one man's opinion" but I believe you have looked into this rather deeply, translated (to some degree) the prophecy and have based your opinion on what facts have been presented. This is good for many reasons and in many scenarios. Again, I have to say (sorry for the repetition) you are still the BEST story teller around. Thank you so much.
This is such a load of fucking crap 😂 if you look into it objectively it’s the Stormcloaks who are just and who are right, the Nords deserve their freedom and their independence
I just want you to know these lore videos are greatly appreciated, I'm so glad there are people like you that keep Elder Scrolls alive in these slower times. Thank you!
Is what you’re saying, that Alduin only attacked Helgen because the Dragonborn was there? Or are you saying that the empire was about to win aside from the fact that they captured Ulfric?
By an event we don't know what happen. The Empire was going to win by an intelligent tactic or simply a lucky strike. We never know. I can say that some stormcloak rat whistle the position of Ulfric and that's how they ambush them and i'm not completely wrong or right because there is no info that certifies or contradict me. So stating that the Empire was winning the war using as base darkwater crossing is unconclusive. What we actually know and is a fact is that ulfric with only a veteran (galmar) and her rebel troops were having a stalemate against a legion of local recruits (meaning Nords against Nords, best human warriors) being helped by imperial legionaires, the support of the court of solitude and also being lead by one of the Best generals of the Empire. I think that quitting darkwater crossing of the equation (and with reason because there is no info about that) is very clear that the stormcloaks were and are the stronger side.
Not necessarily. The rebellion isn't Ulfric. It is Talosians. The Anglosaxons didn't end with the death of King Harold and the Norman victory at the battle of hastings, for example. If Ulfric dies he could become a martyr of the rebellion with an aggrandized mythology that eclipses the real man. Striking him down making him more powerful than ever, to steal a phrase.
@@vulkanofnocturne “You started this War; plunged Skyrim into chaos! …and now the Empire is gonna put you down, and restore the Peace!” -General Tullius Also this: Tullius: "I hope we haven't just created a martyr." Rikke: "There's bound to be resistance. There are many Stormcloak camps tucked away in the hills. They'll no doubt strike whenever and wherever they can. But without Ulfric to inflame their passions, they'll settle down and return to their homes eventually." Tullius: "I pray you're right, Legate. In the meantime, we'll continue to root them out and put them to the sword." …at the *END of the CIVIL WAR* questline.
Was just re-listing to TES podcast Imperials vs Stormcloaks episode when this one came out. Nice work! It will be interesting to see what they decide is canon with TESVI, or if they will avoid it.
Also I have no leanings either way. I think I went with Stormcloaks in my first playthrough but since have done either, mostly avoiding it. Both sides have the same amount of positive and negative traits. And there’s always the possibility that an independent Skyrim could fight beside the empire to stave off Aldmeri takeover. (Irl: Look how many countries are now allies only 80 years after they were enemies in WW2)
@No Considering the Emperor will probably be the faceless player character from Skyrim, as it is their rightful throne as dragonborn, who knows what will happen. There is a "Mysterious Hero" who plays major roles in the first great war if you read the full story of it, definitely a protagonist of a future game right there, probably not es6, but yeah.
@No I think the people would want the dragonborn as emperor regardless of what mede's heir wants, and it would likely bring more unity to crown him than to not, as everyone agrees a dragonborn should be on the throne because they see it as the gods choosing them. But I do see your point, and it is probably what's going to happen as it follows the pattern.
Civil war in Skyrim, Ayleid, Alessian and imperial lore, all in one? Drewmora, this is another amazing recount. I have watched your content for a long while. It has been a light in very dark moments. Thank you very much, I am looking forward to the continued growth of your channel.
I think there's an entirely possible outcome where the Mede Dynasty continues to flounder, as spurred on by the assassination of the emperor, and skyrim is taken by ulfric. The focus would then be on the unity of Skyrim, Hamymerfell, High Rock(, and probably a few other provinces idk) to oppose the Aldmeri dominion. I think there is potential for a much bigger war-based main quest that culminates at the adamantine tower. It *could* lead to a very good questline and main story. I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I think you perhaps have the imagination to explore what this could look like better than I do. It would make potentially more lore sense, as perhaps the events at helgen do inspire the dragonborn to oppose the imperials? Only time will tell. Having said that, this is a great read of the topic as it stands today, I'm not disavowing your perspective at all!
If the emperor is a puppet of the thalmor then wtf is the point of uniting the empire? Wouldn't it be better to give the nords sovereignty and allow alliances to naturally form between sovereign nations against the dominion?
Your idea for the plot of ES6 is very intriguing and I think you may be on the right track. Some of the details may be a bit off, but that's the nature of speculative work. I think you may be right about the Thalmor wanting The Creation Towers because they believe they can use them to do something, but I hesitate to further assume that their goal is undoing creation, though it might be! I don't agree that an Empire Victory is that much better for Tamriel than a Stormcloak victory. Either way lots of troops are lost, and there isn't much hope for the Empire to ever become what it was again. Also, I believe it's more than likely that Bethesda intends the Stormcloaks as the canon winner. As of now, I don't think Bethesda intends for the Last Dragonborn to have significance beyond the events of Skyrim, but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed their minds. Dragonborns have always been important in Elder Scrolls lore and the Last Dragonborn very well may have been created to reintroduce the Dragon Blood to the post-Septim plane of Mundus. However, Martin Septim's essence was frozen in the Dragon Statue upon his sacrifice, which seems to serve as a permanent blockage between Mundus and Oblivion, making the Dragonfires no longer necessary, and in turn a Dragonborn Emperor no longer necessary. Lastly, given the namesake, "Last Dragonborn," I think the prophecy is saying that this will be the last one because it's the last one that will ever be needed, so the Dragon Blood wont be distributed again. But like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if Bethesda went back on that because Elder Scrolls without Dragonborns would be a big change. Great video! It really made me think.
We don't know for certain the full mechanics behind how Dragonblood is passed on. If it is fully hereditary, than the 'Last Dragonborn' means 'last LINE of Dragonborns' not necessarily the very last. The Septims, from what we can tell, are all a direct linage. At least Uriel VII and Martin seem to be certain they are directly descended from Tiber Septim. The Remens had 3 named Remens but we don't really know the relation that the others like Kastav had, possibly brothers, possibly completely unrelated, we just don't know. The First Empire, the bloodline seems to be all over the damn place since there's no evidence that Alessia had kids or that she was related to Morhaus for instance. BUT, there's also no evidence against the possibility that they were all just different lines of dragonborns. The Blades went looking for other lines of Dragonborn after the Oblivion crisis, it possible they knew about other lines in the past that have died out. There's simply too many unknowns with how it all works that we can't say with any certainty what is meant by 'Last Dragonborn'. I personally think Bethesda will keep the Dragonborn around in the series, probably as the shadowy leader of the reformed Blades in TES:VI at the very least. Just simply too central to the lore and worldbuilding. Also Skyrim was a huge market success, they need some nod to the huge influx of fans the Elder Scrolls got in 2011 for a long time to come. They simply can't just have the Dragonborn fade away completely like past games. No complete vanishing acts with no plot future impacts like the Nevervine or running off to Oblivion like the Champion of Cyrodiil, but running the Blades from the shadows. You're very correct that the Dragonborn doesn't need to wear the Amulet of kings anymore, nor does there really need to be a Dragonborn Emperor to hold back Oblivion since Martins sacrifice. But a Dragonborn problem solver in the shadows is something Tamriel could certainly use. It'd also allow the Blades to remain a joinable faction in future games, with questlines just like the Fighters Guild or Thieves Guild. They could be tangential to the Main story or be the main story quests like in Morrowind. The Dragonborn would remains an active player in Tamriel, as a faction leader running the Blades and probably ending up with the new Player character being the regional leader of the Blades in Hammerfell with TES:VI. For future games beyond 6, that's super speculation land and I doubt it's helpful to go there.
Unification is indeed the answer to the coming second Great War. But I do not think further subjugation from the Empire over its former provinces is the only way to unify. And here is why a Stormcloak victory does not have to mean an ineffective, divided front to the Dominion. With Skyrim declaring independence and Titus Mede II dead, the new ruler (perhaps influenced by the political plot mentioned by Motierre) has a chance to unify the divided Empire through alliances rather than imperial conquest. By officially recognising Hammerfell and Skyrim as sovereign entities, they could unify against the Dominion as a military alliance.
I had a realization when I replayed the latest edition of Skyrim: it doesn't actually matter who wins the Civil War because both outcomes wash out within a generation. I say this because the only Jarl that stays in place is Elisif, and she's also the perfect High Queen, because she's easy to manipulate and the only person that has a bad word to say about her is Erikur. Even most Stormcloak Jarls question Ulfric. Even if the Stormcloaks win, the Kingsmoot will probably end up electing Elisif anyway because they trust her but not Ulfric. I suspect that the Dovakhin will become either the Emperor or the new Talos. I suspect that Titus Mede II dies no matter which Dark Brotherhood questline you took because if you don't kill him, Babette will. And she would be the perfect leader for the new Dark Brotherhood after the Dovakhin leaves Skyrim. One way or another, the PC has to become a shadow, just like in previous games. In Oblivion, you became Sheogorath, and everyone sees you as him no matter what you chose to look like, because that's you wear that mantle. If you mantle Talos and make another appearance , that's what people will see. Or maybe you're the new Emperor. In that case, you're still a shadow, part of the Dovakhin Dynasty. Your descendants won't be biologically yours though, but rather one of the kids you adopted. Your grandchild can then be the canonical character. So maybe they set Redfall a hundred years after Skyrim? In any case, post Skyrim, there will be a new Empire, so it won't matter who won the Civil War. Both sides will claim victory. And both will be right in their own ways.
There is no way that the Stormcloak Jarls would fight a war against the Empire just to put Elisif on the throne, nor would they trust her not to just surrender to the Empire. Not to mention, the common Nords would be supporting Ulfric. Putting Elisif on the throne would lead to another civil war that would ultimately result in Ulfric dissolving the Moot and making himself High King by force.
The Dovahkiin will be the new Emperor once again lighting the dragon fires. ✔ Restored the blades ✔ The previous Emporer is assassinated ✔ Has Dragons who serve the Dragonborn like Talos did Bathesda essentially set you up to become the next emporer/empress if you look at it from an aggregate perspective.
If only bethesda didn't set up the DLC's in a way that makes Hermeus Mora capture the dragonborn in his pocket of oblivion and makes him his new champion. So no emperor/empress throne for you
I think it depends on what the Stormcloaks do after the events of Skyrim. I'd also add, Dragonborn intervention isn't really a fair point. If the Dovahkiin sides with the Empire and becomes Emperor, its just as fair to say the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks and ally with other provinces. Taking on the same role as Talos in the 2nd Era, eventually becoming Emperor. Outside of Dragonborn intervention, Ulfric has show he's willing to work with other races, as seen with him sending letters to Highrock for aid against the Empire. If he sends those letters to Hammerfell instead, he probably could get aid from the Redguards against the Empire and Dominion. Both provinces protecting each other. Ulfric also has the voice, its possible he'd attempt to do what Talos failed to do, reopen that school for the voice in Markarth (I doubt it though, he does seem to honor the Greybeards in some sense). Highrock would probably secede and join the Red/Nord collective at that point. Not only are they cut off from the Empires protection, but are flanked from both sides. The Stormcloaks are in the same position the Empires in currently if that happens. Possibly more unified by comparison than the current Empire. Who, which we know (thanks to the Brotherhood quest line) is having its own internal power struggle. I could see the Elder Counsel at that point just siding with the Northern provinces. The Elves haven't attacked yet, likely because they haven't recouped from the last war. Elves have long reproductive cycles while man can reproduce all year round. Even if the Elves take Cyrodiil while all this was going on, they'll still have the internal strife from the locals to deal with. I could see local militias forming in defiance, even Bruma becoming a part of Skyrim. Giving the Northern alliance a launching point into Cyrodiil. Its also a bit harder to kill off a decentralized force working together than it is an centralized Empire with internal strife. Not that I expect any of this to happen, I think TESVI will likely be about the Empire getting its finest warriors back. Preparing for the fight against the Dominion. The second great war will probably span two games, with TES:VI preventing the Thalmor from taking the Adamantine Tower and TES:VII taking the fight to the Dominion provinces.
"its just as fair to say the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks and ally with other provinces." The issue with this is the groups the Stormcloaks would be allying with have already fought the Aldmeri Dominion back when they were more unified and fresher. They had more resources, better logistics and just a better chance. Now, the Stormcloaks would have gone through a long, bloody war and been weakened. As would the remnants of the Empire, or the people of Cyrodil post-Empire. That is the same whether the Empire or Stormcloaks win, but the thing that changes if the Stormcloaks win is the logistics and willingness for all the different groups to work together. Sure, we could argue the Stormcloaks ally with the remnants of the Empire, but it wouldn't have any of the cohesion the Empire had. The groups would be independent and only loosely coupled. The U.S. saw how that worked out immediately after the Revolutionary War. There was no cohesion between the states so most unified actions were nearly impossible. The different groups will see themselves as different and cooperation becomes more tricky than if the groups see themselves as a cohesive whole. Now, normal strategy immediately becomes a diplomatic game of who is going to come out ahead and who is going to take the biggest hits. I doubt Morrowind is willing to send a bunch of their soldiers off to die fighting the Aldmeri Dominion at the request of the Stormcloaks even if it is strategically sound. Now they have to worry about the long-term and having a bitter rival on their doorsteps without the unifying aspect of the Empire keeping them secure. "Outside of Dragonborn intervention, Ulfric has show he's willing to work with other races, as seen with him sending letters to Highrock for aid against the Empire." I also see this as a kind of funny thought because, while Ulfric may be willing to work with other races, his base certainly isn't. So, I'm not sure if Ulfric decides to start working along with the other races that he won't just have the Stormcloak Rebellion pt. 2, this time against himself. That's the problem with inflaming base emotions to fuel mistrust - it doesn't just turn off when it's convenient. All in all, I don't really see a way to have the Aldmeri Dominion lose without some hail mary mcguffin in ESVI. The second the Stormcloak rebellion started, the Aldmeri gained a big advantage. The only benefit to the other side was the Dragonborn coming and stopping it from bleeding both sides to death. Now, they're just grievously wounded.
@@Cyrathil The second treaty of Stros M'kai was signed in 4th Era 180, 21 years before the events if Skyrim. I believe that's enough time for Redguards to replenish a generation of potential fighters. With the Crowns and Forebears unified, they may already have a decent fighting force. Maybe not enough to war with the Dominion alone, but with the allying of others its possible. Neither the Stormcloaks nor the Empire really have the cohesion the early 4th and late 3rd Era Empire once had. They either force Skyrim back into the Empire, still maintaining the tensions of the civilian populace, or lose Skyrim and be left at the mercy of the Dominion. As far as Ulfrics base not being willing to work with other races, thats debatable. The standard propaganda of the Empire is that all the Nords who support Ulfric are racists who want to rid Skyrim of all outsiders. While this is true to an extent, most of the Nordic racial hatred is directed most prominently at Elven and Beast folk. Sure they may have a contempt for other races of men, but even in the heart of Windhelm, there are Imperials and Bretons that live in the prosperous parts of the city. This is hard to discern due to Windhelm being ridiculously small in game, but I think its safe to assume that within a lore sized province. Most Nords would be more willing to work with the races of man against the Elves or a common threat. True, there's no hope for long lasting unity amongst the provinces, but they don't need that to defeat the Dominion (unless they half-ass it and let the Dominion off under a treaty). Even in lore there are instances of provinces forming unlikely alliances to defeat a common enemy. The Dunmer allying with the Nords and Argonians to defeat the Frost demons of Akavir for example. Its possible that the same could happen here. I didn't even mention Morrowind, they hate the Empire and dislike the Nords so either way they likely wouldn't even factor in. Although I do agree, the Dominion is the most likely to win in truth, from a writing standpoint. Although overall, I expect the Empire to pull off the impossible with another doom driven hero of fate saving humanity at the last minute.
I agree with every thing else just not the first bit, if you think the Mede Empire is just going to allow the dragonborn to take their throne you clearly don't understand medieval Politics, the Dragonborn has a Legitimate claim to the ruby throne unlike the Mede who claimed it via Conquest killing the Old empire in the Process as soon as the civil war is over Tullius will get orders to arrest and execute the dragonborn Orders from the Emperor him self. Dragonborn siding with Ulfric makes sense from a non dragonborn Prisoner sense and after the destiny of Dragonborn revealed sense as Ulfric can help the Dragonborn Legitimately claim the throne sends spies and messengers to the other human Provinces about his return and letters to the Count/countess of Cyrodill. from their the people and Lords will choose their side, plus the medes might send assassins and the Dragonborn can use that as fuel to his/her cause.
@@CommanderM117 well I was responding to Drews idea and many others who believe the Dragonborn could become emperor. Its why I said: "if the Dragonborn sides with the empire and becomes emperor, its just as fair to say he/she sides with Ulfric and allies with other provinces, eventually becoming Emperor". Personally I'm not a fan of either of these idea's. Making the Dragonborn Emperor is a bit too railroaded in my opinion. I'd prefer they left the Dovahkiin's ending loose enough for the player to decide what happened to them in the next game.
Everyone has theories on how Bethesda will handle the civil war but I've never seen anyone mention this: have we considered the possibility that the war could end with a dragon break meaning that both sides are victorious simultaneously?
That’s a lame trick they’ve already done. It shouldn’t be overused. Some people are going to be let down. I hate to say it but even if their reasons are good I do not think a stormcloak victory is ultimately is better than an imperial one. Lots of wishful thinking about northern alliances and using a specific condition in Hammerfell to illustrate how they will ultimately prevail. The war was a bad idea. But how do you tell the passionate supporters (and players) that?
@@TheMeestLord yeah I don't like the idea, just never heard mention of the possibility. And I don't think people understand that the empire left tons of discharged troops in Hammerfell to keep fighting. I'm generally imperial, I understand the stormcloaks but if they win tamriel loses. Divide and conquer. A strong unified empire is the best chance. And yes, people just assume there would be great alliances of the independent provinces that would just be perfectly coordinated together and everything and that's just not realistically very likely to happen.
I don't think they'll dragonbreak Skyrim's story away. But they've talked about how much they're looking to Daggerfall for inspiration and TES 6 will be set on the same landmass. I think they'll end TES 6 with a Dragonbreak just like Daggerfall.
It dumb and lazy when they did it with daggerfalls ending, and I don’t want it with Skyrims ending. It would be even worse with Skyrims ending because it wouldn’t even be unique.
I usually choose the Empire, albeit reluctantly but I think the sixth game could be more fun if it involves wrestling control of Tamriel away from the Thalmor, especially if you get to do so in all the different realms and also at sea. Bonus points if you get some of the more benevolent Daedra to help you do it. MY biggest concern is the Soul Cairn, I am hoping to find another way to enchant things and to do so in a way that causes the collapse of the soul cairn and to do a big blow to the current forces of evil and also a means to prepare the way for a different kind later...
I’ve always appreciated the potential tactical advantage gained by surrendering part of Hammerfell. The Empire may have done so unwillingly, but that they did agree to do so now allows the Redguards to stretch thin the Dominion’s Armies while the Empire regains some strength. Were it not for the Stormcloak Rebellion, the Empire could have gained an incredible advantage over the Dominion, but alas now both major factions have to divert efforts rather than prepare for the future.
Touching back on this I firmly believe that you are correct in this affirmation Drew. Given thus, the Empire must be the victors: -Not for their selfish gainsake; the empire does not wish to alienate the Nords, subjugate them, uproot their culture or any of these things. -The Empire's play in the civil war is plainly thus; To be able to count the Nords as Allies within a future endeavour should they need them. -The Empire knows how important Talos is to Nordic culture, let alone their own. Talos is sacred in Cyrod and there is no denying this. -Accepting the Thalmor's agreement was merely the tender gesture of being able to sustain as the Empire and perservere until later things could be corrected, returning Talos and all promised lands. - To be able to hold dominion over Skyrim does not mean replacing its rulers, if we look back to how Skyrim took care of itself for near thousands of years- Skyrim being apart of the Empire does not sway their fundamental way of managing their country. - Ulfric indeed spoke not only for all Nords, but for the Empire too. As even the Empire was too weak to admit, the entire foundation of empire swears by what Ulfric and his vision--- yet the ambitious and hasty nature to revert things to how they were prior to Thalmor machination for the mere 'pride' of being a Nord is as narrow and egotistic as the Thalmor's mission itself. Biding time, patience, seeing the longterm, recluse, honor, dignity and grace all things that Ulfric could benefit from, if not we all. This is the Empire, sustainability, allowing the possibility, being humble enough to bow their heads in momentaria and see the rights form as time's inevitable passage would wage. Skyrim unified with Cyrodill, together with Morrowind and its people, and Hammerfell is sphere for hope and peace. The morals of the Nords are very commendable, but execution, to fight against the Empire instead of unifying in front of the Thalmor, I feel compassion for the blinded sight of it.
I would argue that, even though I tend to support the Imperial Legion in my playthroughs for exactly this reason, a Stormcloak victory does not necessarily bode ill for Tamriel either. As you say, the Thalmor wish a prolonged conflict. The Dragonborn supporting the Stormcloaks would transform what they had hoped would be a destabilizing force in the region into a stabilizing power. And here's another big point: Ulfric Stormcloak HATES the Thalmor. Once Skyrim's independence is assured, it wouldn't take much convincing for High King Ulfric to ally himself with the other nations of Tamriel who wish to oppose the Aldmeri Dominion. If circumstance brought it about, Skyrim would likely use such an alliance to secure concessions and a solid acknowledgment of their independence from the Empire, squeezing some political gain from the situation, but they would *be* united against the Thalmor either way. With regards to the Skyrim Civil War, my belief is that the Dragonborn's only losing move is not to play.
@@thaliazelmer2327 Nope, the Thalmor dossier for Ulfric says that he is an "Uncooperative asset", in other words his rebellion is useful but he isn't in any way willing to work with the Thalmor, because he hates them. The whole thing condensed essentially reveals that during the great war, the Thalmor captured and tortured Ulfric for information, making him believe that he was the reason they captured the imperial city even though the city fell before Ulfric revealed anything under torture. Ulfric then became riddled with guilt, because he thinks the White-Gold Concordat was his fault, and the Thalmor later on prodded him to cause the Markarth incident, but at the same time he proved to be "uncooperative to direct contact". Ulfic started the rebellion because he's trying to "fix what he broke" in his own mind, because the worship of Talos and freedom of the Nords are super important to him, and all this time he's thought that it's his weakness for breaking under torture that has allowed the Thalmor to terrorise people in Skyrim and ban Talos worship.
You know I was actually waiting for someone to make a video on this topic and when I realised it's you (the guy that made some of the best elden ring content I have seen), I just had to sub.
Also a note on Ulfric and Talos worship: the ban on the worship was not enforced by the Empire in Skyrim until Ulfric captured Markarth so bloodily (needlessly bloody) and demanded it to be reinstated. One of Ulfric's main points is something he caused himself.
@@badluck5647 But, those who did it behind closed doors were opening themselves up to oppression. "Do what I say or I report your Talos worship to the Authorities" is literally something the DB can do in Skyrim. One could even argue that outlawing Talos worship in the first place is part of a plan for the Dominion to arrest any Nord or Imperial that they don't like for whatever reason and still appear legitimate. Not that I personally think Talos is a figure worthy of worship, but it's foolish to say the best course of action is simply breaking the law and making no attempt to change it. Maybe for the average person in a bad situation I can excuse it, but not someone who's supposed to be a leader. Very shortsighted, and the elves are playing the long game.
I don't think its fair to blame him for that. It was outlawed and inevitable that the dominion would eventually start prosecuting the worshippers of talos.
People were smoking pot behind doors most white people were never bothered but black people had to suffer long sentences for it. In skyrim probably the same all the poor n disenfranchised folk get to be persecuted while cowards act like nothing is happening.
See, I watch a lot of videos of people saying "The Empire must win Skyrim or else they will crumble and everyone loses", but that's not really true. It could happen, but everyone talks as if it is absolute. Imagine if Britain called up the US during WWI or WWII and said, "hey you need to rejoin our empire for the fate of humanity or else we all die". That's silly. The US, as a sovereign nation, assisted massively to end the war. Likewise, a sovereign Skyrim could very much be the same. Allow the Empire to gather it's resources where needed, which is clearly not Skyrim, and let Skyrim build itself up. Allow them their sovereignty and make them an ally. That's how you win wars.
Bethesda set you up to become the emperor. You restore the Blades. The blades were created as the emperors personal guards and secret service. You kill the former Emperor, and leaves a vacuum of power. You are dragon born, you control and ride dragons. You defeated a world/universal threat. Add it up.
And then they sent us to Solstheim, where the Last Dragonborn was forced to not only help Hermaeus Mora (to save everybody one last time), but to read AND seek out the hidden knowledge of a mind-corrupting Black Book to do so. And odds are, they did it with way more than just one Black Book. ...I'm worried about the Dragonborn, guys hahahaha.
If they wrote out the Neravarine, the Hero of Kvatch, as well as each of the previous hero's, I doubt the Last Dragonborn will not be written out of the story as well, especially after the Dragonborn DLC and reading multiple Black Books. You can add up what you want but there's already a pattern that has emerged over the series.
@@donovanfaust3227This is true, and mostly lazy writing on Bethesdas part. The Dragonborn could still become the Emperor, though, and be written out just as easily due to the passage of time. It all depends on how far in the future the next title is going to be. I have a feeling it's going to be another 200 years minimum, to avoid overlapping timeliness that early TES games faced, like Oblivion only being a few years after Morrowind. Also because Skyrim came out well over 10 years ago, and having the next game be a significant time jump would help distance itself from it. This frees them up to do what they want without being held down by the prior games events. The Dragonborn is too big and too important to the Empire to simply ignore. Depending on what they do and if there is still an Emperor, it could be said that they are descendants of The Last Dragonborn. As for the events of Apocrypha, I don't think the Daedric Prince ever had a hold on the Last Dragonborn the way he had on Miraak, due to him simply being able to leave the realm at will, which Miraak was never able to do, and left Hermaeus Mora in disbelief. Though I admit it is ominous when he says something like "you shall return someday" at the end. This last part may be headcanon, but I like to subscribe to the idea that the Last Dragonborn is an aspect of Shor, which is why you could sit in his throne in Sovengard and why The Daedric Prince had no real hold over him/her in Apocrypha.
I think it's a fallacy to assume that a Stormcloak win in Skyrim precludes unification against the Thalmor. Skyrim knows how to be allies with other provinces, and it makes a lot of sense for Hammerfell and Skyrim to ally if they do leave the Empire. I think unity against the Thalmor is more important than being under the banner of the Cyrodillic Empire.
Agreed. Additionally, the Empire has already lost several of its holdings to the Thalmor, be it during the Great War or in the aftermath of the White-Gold Concordat (looking at Hammerfell specifically for the latter). Even if the Empire wins the Civil War in Skyrim, they'll still have to reclaim the other provinces - a task made all the harder by the Empire slowly crumbling away. In contrast, the Stormcloaks are a new 'faction', but should they win the Civil War, they'd prove their own might against the Thalmor - something that the Redguards would likely appreciate, and that appreciation and kinship could be a unifying factor between the two, along with their respective victories over the Thalmor. They may have to convince the other provinces of their might and ability, but they'd have an easier time of it than a crumbling Empire. (I say this as someone who likes the Empire, as an aside. I have a lot of fond memories of Cyrodiil, and I like the idea of the Empire continuing to exist in Tamriel as an active faction. That said, though... well, one has to weigh everything.)
@@Hexium_Vexium -- The Stormcloaks winning the Civil War doesn't prove their superiority over the Thalmor.. It only proves that they're willing to kill their own to win a pointless argument. A wise Hammerfell or High Rock leader will see this. Besides, Ulfric's reputation would spread there, and they would know that he was captured during the Dominion War, and that he also started a war just to become High King. No matter how you try to spin it, either by being a good guy or by being power hungry, THAT was always the goal. Those leaders, realistically, would see that and question why they should ally with someone as questionably sus as Ulfric.
I think it would be far more interesting for the Empire to loose to the Stormcloaks which allows High Rock to just quietly slip away as well. The Kingdom of Cyrodiil, not the Empire.
@@ajsouza3720 the whole point of the war was so the storm cloaks could weaken the empire further so yes the war is very pointless beacuse it only furthers the goals of the damn elves.
I like your idea of a Dragonborn emperor, and that they player chooses the events of Skyrim. I hope they implement this. It feels like the perfect conclusion to the Last Dragonborn's storyline.
It's already cannon that the empire wins. It's very obscure, and requires players to not overlook a single piece of paper, on a table in one of the forts during the civil war story line. It's not tied to any quest, nor are you ever prompted to read it for any reason. However, depending on which faction the player chooses. The paper has different writing on it. If you choose to be the empire. It's a note written by a Stormcloak about being afraid that the legions are amassing across the border and that the winter snows are all that stand between them and total destruction. That Ulfric must secure his claim before the melt. Otherwise the rebellion is done. If you choose Stormcloaks. The note details how the Empire is using farmers and old men to fight for Tullius'. BUT....They're only job is to hold out long enough for the snows to melt and the Legions can cross into Skyrim and put down Ulfric. So the army is 100% there, as the Stormcloak fears. But, the actual full mights of the legion can't get into Skryim due to it's remoteness and hostile weather. And due to divisiveness and the recent wars around Tamriel, Skyrim can barely muster a suitable force of it's own. It really is old men, fighting teenagers with rusty swords over old relics and ruins. Not some grand civil war. So the quest is accurate to the reality of the situation and not cut content. It also make Ulfic really look like a piece of shit. Which he is, considering.
That is, following the lore, a great nonsense. The Empire has all his legions almost destroyed after great war. The remaining ones are in cyrodill protecting the sobereign of the Empire. So it's logistically stupid to move a single legion to skyrim because that would mean letting cyrodill open to an attack of the Thalmor. It's literally the reason why Tullius legion is filled of local recruits and only some few legionaires. So that of the Empire having legions outside of skyrim is most likely propaganda to make fear the stormcloaks when they read it or Bethesda poor writing. But it's not true, because the lore contradicts that. And again that's bullshit, and you don't know the lore. Skyrim is the only province with High Rock that still have the sufficient manpower to make an army. They literally never were directly in the great war and were only used some legions of Nords, not all of them. And those few legions were the responsibles of allow that Mede escaped from the capital and the principal responsibles of killing the majority of the Thalmor army during Red Ring (and in inferiority and surrounded against the best battlemages of the continent, so clearly the Nords can fight against magic). They are no teenagers dumbass, the major part of the stormcloaks are veterans and the same ones that anhiliate the Thalmor army. Those soldiers with rusty swords were the principal responsibles of winning the war and were always the principal manpower of the Empire during all his history. It's a stalemate precisely because are Nords against Nords, the Best ones against the Best ones. If the legion of Tullius was filled with only imperials the stormcloaks would have won a long time ago. An imperial win is not canonic and it's not realistic if you know and analyze the lore. Don't say nonsenses. An independent skyrim is the best outcome and can defend their land better without the concordat chains and the shitty logistic of the Empire. The redguards already prove that.
I’ve always figured that with a stormcloak win, the human races(or at least the nords) have a higher chance (if only individually) against the thalmor as Talos is a human god, and the worship of him makes him more powerful, thus with more worship of talos in universe the stronger the nord/human races, thus higher chance against the high elves. And being independent yet allied with the empire against the thalmor is still an option after the fact
Ulfric has already been seen to work with the thalmor and the thalmors plan to help the stormcloaks get independence was to remove the alliance of men, its a part of their grand strategy against the empire. On talos he is only an aedra and therefore offers little practical support to the humans, espicially if only skyrim is worshipping him which is what happens if the stormcloaks win.
@@Meshifuari it does, more worship for aedra affects their power and influence but it can also affect how they take shape, for example akatosh (the god of time) was oringally worshipped as auri-el in the altmer pantheon and the god of time was accepted to be auri-el. it's has less affect of the daedra but still holds some influence on their power. To further back this up this is the entire reason the altmer forbade the worship of Talos in the white-gold concordat, to weaken the 'human' gods power
@@joelbattyman79 Where was it ever stated tho? I have played every game and been deep into the lore but this is the first time ever that I have heard about worship giving power to aedra... Like at all.
@@Meshifuari read king Edward book XII in daggerfall, this subject is discussed but a quote from it says, "when a goddess loses worshippers, her inflow of mid-level magicka is decreased, so she in-turn produces less god level magicka"
A good chunk of my walkthroughs are with khajiits. Would be an interesting turn of events, having a khajiiti empress fomenting revolt in Elsweyr to rejoin the Empire.
Your point of the empire must win because elves bad is mute. Ulfric says he fully intends to fight the elves in the upcoming war so it dosent matter which side you choose.
full transparency i was fully pro stormcloak entering this video and although i still ultimately am i must concede you present the imperial's case in a very palatable way, great stuff!
i view Ulfric as more of a threat then i do the Thalmor. I kill their patrols all the time. As a vampire, i see him asa threat to Castle Volkihar. There's nothing to stop him from attacking us if he wins the war.
My theory is that the Empire ending is canon. The dragonborn is going to end up recreating Talos's conquest and they're going to run the Altmeri Dominion's head into the dirt.
I liked the Empire in Oblivion a lot yet by the events of Skyrim it is a shadow of a its former glory...Because the Aldemiri Domonion and Hammerfell were hyped and foreshadowed so much in Skyrim the Second Great War will probably be the focus in Elder Scrolls 6. I think the Dragonborn will have "mysteriously disappeared" (too op), Skyrim will become independent like Hammerfell whom they're going to ally with and the Dominion will be forced to split its forces in multiple fronts against the fractured Empire with possibly a regained territory (most likely Valenwood) and a united front of Nords and Redguards! As for if the Empire will reunite afterwards well that is unclear but I think it'd be more interesting perhaps if all of the provinces became independent nations, that's also a possibility! 🤔 🧐
Imagine for the next Elder Scrolls game: After the death of the Last Dragonborn, he becomes part of a council of heroes from previous games, they find you (the player) to convince you to reunify the Empire in order to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion. Something like that
Ultimately the Empire is corrupt, the elves have total military intelligence through it. If all the human provinces became free, the thalmor could be expelled
The idea of your player character being the next Dragonborn Emperor is so cool. I always wished we could have been the High King of Skyrim at least during the end of the civil war, but if we have to wait for TES6 to hear that Dovahkiin is the Emperor, it’ll be well worth it
Some thoughts on the civil war topic that I typed a while ago: The Thalmor were the ones who proposed the concordat. Every day they grow stronger while their agents are given free reign of the empire to spy and sabotage- all the while, they prepare in secret. If peace was not ever in their favor, the Dominion would resume open war today. Maintaining anything resembling the status quo is completely out of the question if you don't want the Thalmor to get what they want long-term. Secret worship of gods is not much of a thing in TES. Open worship and belief are heavily linked with a god's influence over mundus. This is a main reason why the dunmer tribunal were so ruthless in eradicating "heresy". The Thalmor need to diminish Lorkhan (basically the patron god of mankind) and his mantler Talos' power as much as possible so that they cannot interfere with their desire to literally destroy physical reality, which they consider a prison that should never have been created. This "bide our time" thing the Empire is supposedly doing is 100% not a thing. It is abundantly clear that the Thalmor don't want the Stormcloaks to actually win. They just figure it's a distraction for the Empire which will sow internal division. An independent Skyrim not beholden to the Concordat does not fit in their plans at all. While it would be debatable whether or not Ulfric should have started his rebellion (if one was ignorant of the larger implications of the ban on open Talos worship), his rebellion having already been started, and with TLD being able to decide its fate... the desirability of a Stormcloak victory over an Imperial one in the civil war questline is hardly up for debate.
What you writted is so much all the truth that I believe like with the elderscroll, it blind the foolish who try to read it, explaining why there is so many who seem to don't know any of it. That and the Thalmor snake.
Not having nords from skyrim makes the imperial army much weaker. If skyrim was ruled by the stormcloaks the dominion would easily stomp them after beating the empire because they are so weak after dealing and losing to the stormcloaks. Imperial victory over the stormcloaks is the last thing the dominion wants.
@@kylerBD 1) why would the dominion invade cyrodiil after the conclusion of the civil war? IF they were planning to do that in the near future, they would've done it when it was most optimal: *during* the civil war. While it could be argued that they would be hesitant to provide a greater common enemy to the humans and cause them to cease their internal fighting to unite against the dominion, this would take some time. The initial momentum benefits of invading when so many humans are currently tied up far to the north would probably outweigh that concern. 2) If the dominion invades anywhere after the civil war, it probably wouldn't be cyrodiil. Remember: they already have de facto control over cyrodiil. They don't want to conquer land just to conquer it in the usual imperialist fashion. They ultimately want to conquer land to reduce talos worship as much as possible, in addition to anything else that will further their world-ending goals. If they can achieve this without open war, they will go that route every day of the week. Elves lose to humans in wars of attrition. They do not want to just throw mer bodies at men. 3. The majority of nords who cared enough to fight the empire (the ones you're worried about losing in the potential war vs the dominion) would be more than willing to head south to fight the dominion in cyrodiil, should they invade. This idea that people must be united under the same political banner in order to effectively join forces militarily... it's annoyingly pervasive, and it's wrong. A civil-war-victorious stormcloak army is also going to be more enthusiastic about taking the fight to the dominion than a defeated one which is forced to fight for the gutless empire they were just rebelling against.
@@kylerBD Imagine trying to invade Skyrim. It's bordered on all sides by near impassible mountains and a notoriously rough sea. The Dominion could never get a toehold in a region which utterly despises them.
@@ajsouza3720 The dominion would utterly and totally destroy skyrim in the event of a stormcloak victory. Without the support of the empire the nords of skyrim wouldnt even stand a chance. The empire was nearly completely destroyed by the dominion while it still had full suport from all the human nations of tamriel. Imagine the nords trying to stand against that they would be obliterated.
Hmmm ... If the Empire is planning to crush the Thalmor after the Skyrim war, then great. They should just TELL the Stormcloaks of the plan and put a stop to the war right away before too much damage is done to each side.
Bethesda won’t make a canon ending for something like this, as they want to keep the choices of each player canon. So they will either have the next game take place during the events of Skyrim with the war still going on, or have the game so far in the future that the outcome does not matter.
I was 3 years old when TES 5 came out. Me & my dad loved to play it together. Now, when TES VI gets released, I will be moving out. Crazy to think about.
I've always sided with the Imperials. Never liked or trusted Ulfric - I think he's an idiot who is only weakening Skyrim and playing into the Thalmor's favour. The Imperial garrison in Skyrim currently is just that; a local garrison made up of mostly nords. The Stormcloaks killing Skyrim's Imperial garrison means Ulfric is only killing other nords. Not Imperials. Tullius even said it's only a matter of time before the peace treaty ends. It was only done so they could regroup and strengthen their army. By standing against the Imperials, Ulfric is essentially supporting the Thalmor. Regardless, Skyrim already gave us the result of the war: The border to Cyrodill is blocked, and thus the main Imperial army is literally waiting on the other side until that blockage is cleared. Once cleared that army can enter Skyrim and the Stormcloaks wouldn't stand a chance. The stormcloaks are a small rebel force made up of misfits and defectors. If the Dragonborn can tip the balance in the Stormcloaks favour, where-as they would otherwise be comepletely overrun by the much larger and better armed Imperial army - then it stands to reason the Dragonborn is so utterly overpowered he doesn't need an army, and this whole debate is pointless. If the DB is that powerful he could take on the Thalmor himself without an army.
@@virginiastatesman4672 The banning of Talos worship is only a part of the peace treaty, which; as I said, everyone knows won't last. That and most people are still worshipping Talos in secret anyway. The Imperials managed to take back control of the Imperial City and with it the White-Gold Tower. The Elf "occupation", at least in Skyrim; is only that of a diplomatic envoy. It's not an army garrison. The Thalmor got their butts kicks by the Redguards too. Hammerfell wasn't lost to the Thalmor, the Redguards remain in control and exited from the Empire by their own choice. But the Redguards aren't actively attacking and weakening the Imperials, they are just defending themselves against the Thalmor. I bet they'd team up with the Imperials to take on the Thalmor once the war starts again. Where-as Ulfric is actually trying to weaking the Imperial / Empire... which only favours the Thalmor in the end. It's stated outright in the game, by the Thalmor, that Ulfric is unknowningly helping the Thalmor. And they are more than happy to just sit back and let him do their dirty work for them.
@@EndoScorpion No, the Thalmor want a weak Empire. That’s been achieved. The Nordic rebellion is a consequence of this. The Empire is allowing the elves to enforce their rule now, in Skyrim. How can you blame the Nords for rebellion against Justiciar rule?
@@virginiastatesman4672 The Stormcloaks aren't attacking the Thalmor / the Thalmor Embassy, they're just killing other nords that side with the Empire. I'll repeat it one more time for emphasis: everyone knows the peace won't last and the war will continue!!! The peace is an opportunity for the Empire and its allies to regain their strength in order to hit the Thalmor harder next time. They made some TEMPORARY sacrifices in order to acheive that peace treaty. They're thinking long term and the bigger picture here. By attacking the Empire, the Stormcloaks are essentially siding with the Thalmor!! All because why? They can't OPENLY worship Talos for a little while?? They do realise Talos was an Emperor of the Empire right? The Stormcloaks are fighting the Empire for the right to worship the Empire's gods, while forsaking their own animal gods! Ulfric is killing nords, avoiding the Thalmor and actually helping them, slandering the Empire, attacking the Empire for not allowing him to openly worship Empire gods, killed his own High King and wants that position. I could even argue he's working directly for the Thalmor, but the one thing that is certain is that he's an idiot.
@@EndoScorpion The bigger picture is that the Empire is now wartorn; without a Dragonborn Emperor, and literally allowing elf occupation squads to assassinate and kill Talos worshippers. Yes, the Stormcloaks openly attack and eject the Thalmor. The Empire has already been defeated and stripped of half it’s provinces, it’s dead. You can cope and say ulfric is an idiot, but he’s fighting a thalmor occupation government backed by the Imperial legion, if he ejected it successfully the elves control of the Empire would be confined to Cyrodil and High Rock.
I think the Empire should have joined the Stormcloaks instead of fighting them. To fight the Altmeri Dominion together. Instead they weakened their peoples.
Ulfric was definitely the aggressor here. When you complete the civil war quest line with the Empire, General Tulius makes it clear that the treaty was only signed to buy the empire time so that they can rebuild their strength and their numbers. And as soon as the empire is strong enough, they will double cross the Thalmor and reclaim Tamriel.
What do you think the Great War was? They were fighting the Dominion but they were losing so they needed a break. Skyrim can't stand against the Dominion and the empire can't help for the meantime. The best play is to rebuild before reclaiming the empire.
@@alistairgrey5089 If the Dominion could have destroyed the Empire, they wouldn't have signed with the Concordat either. Titus Mede II just didn't have the stomach to continue war. For wartime, we need warlike leaders.
@@DarkAdonisVyers you don't think so? The Dominion can't conquer the empire, that was never their goal. They only wanted to occupy it and control it. This is where they succeeded. If Skyrim stood alone they would meet the same fate as every other province that stood alone.
I think the empire should divide in regional sectors, where the Skyrim/ Cyrodil empire could rule itself within the bounds of an imperial treaty. Stay united as an empire, rule themselves locally
I'll stay with the Stormcloacks. The Redguards stopped The AD invasion of Hammerfell, the nords can do the same. Don't forget the reason rome fell, it was bigger than they could manage.
@@chainsaw8507 so i have to ask, that's the only way to win? An invasion of the land of skyrim by the AD is not something simple, the AD would be vulnerable to the other provinces.
@@chainsaw8507 if you really want to take campfire stories told in a cheap, discontinued, cash grab licensed card game called "Legends" as canon, the AD no longer has the Eye of Vaermina. The Dominion has three approaches against Skyrim, all are poor. From the south through Cyrodill which will cause another GW with Hammerfell at least aiding materialy if not directly, regardless of the aid in "Legends" from the discharged legions as a simple matter of pragmatism. Around the coast of Highrock skirting the Azurian ocean and through the sea of ghosts to lay siege to Solitude, assuming the Imperial, Redguard and Breton navies would allow such a huge aramada to sail by uncontested with the blatant intent of invasion. Even if the AD sent the Empire a letter saying "don't worry about the majority of navy mobilizing with what is cleary an invasion and occupation force, we only want to attack Skyrim not you. We have a deal, remember? :) ;) XD
Imo, it would be best if Skyrim went the way of Hammerfell, and seceded from the Empire without further bloodshed. The Emperor Titus Mede II cannot afford to send General Tullius any reinforcements out of fear of depleting his legions garrisoned at the southern border of Cyrodiil. At the same time, Ulfric’s uprising is putting tension on relations between the Empire and the Thalmor, as they have set up a presence here in Skyrim to root out any Talos worship. The best possible outcome for both factions is for The Last Dragonborn to become High King of Skyrim, and order a withdrawal of both Stormcloaks and Imperials under the issue of a permanent armistice.
I just hope Bethesda will give more effort on actually fleshing out the current Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor in-game than just forcing as much as possible to make PCs think of them as generic baddies. If someone invaded your home unprovoked, slaughtered your people into submission with a giant robot after they couldn't win otherwise, and then forced you to bend to their laws and worship their leader as your new god then you would probably hate them too.
I would definitely want to see a more nuanced Thalmor as well. However the way Bethesda has written them, I feel the only way we would see a more complex faction is to have a schism within the Thalmor. That could be something introduced in TESVI with side characters, but you'd only really see how divided the faction is if the setting was on Summerset itself.
Altmer culture led to the Thalmor. Their superiority complex exists without them. The Thalmor is what you get when Altmer beliefs become radicalized and militarized. Fuck ‘em. They’re going down the road of the Ayleids and they deserve the same fate. It was the old ehlnofey that started this shit by rejecting the wanderers. Individual Altmer might be nice and their cultural achievements are impressive and influential but their culture and beliefs are poison. They’re so invested in it they’d rather die than have to find a new way.
OORRR Drangonborn says end all Nord suffering in their time being of ESV and have Stormcloaks win cuz he/she hates the Empire just as Ulfric does. Which would mean in the events of ESVI the Imperials would return to challenge High King Ulfric again because Tulius mentions eventually the Empire plans to get the strength to fight the Dominion, they would need Skyrim just as much. This is where that of the White Gold Concordia is lifted and Talos worship is no longer outlawed and High King Ulfric will likely be overpowered and voiced to join the fight with their mutual enemy.
Skyrim and the empire could still fight as allies against the dominion. Just like the US and the UK does. The US left the British empire but have faught along side the UK. Skyrim can do the same.
That took a full century, a change in the British dynasty and some hefty reconciliation on behalf of both parties... Wasn't just the mutual interests and culture, it was time and concentrated diplomatic effort. If TES:VI is only a decade or two after Skyrim, I doubt any such reconciliation will have happened by then.
@@Lusa_Iceheart if the Empire doesn't make an alliance they will fall without the Nords and the Redguards defending them of the Thalmor. But i won't be surprise that the Empire would be stupid enough to not make a quickly alliance after an indepent Skyrim. They already demonstrated their incompetence.
@@Lusa_Iceheart It didn't take a full century, the US and UK were formally allies in 1785. They weren't chummy until WW2 but we aren't looking for chummy, we are looking for coalition.
I fear that the Third Empire will fall eventually... but right now All of Mundus needs to unite against these meanace called "Thalmor"... If The Nerevarine returns with Akavir forces and invade the Summerset Isle, it will be the greatest "Wins or Lamest" plot twist i ever watched...
@@Nerazmus Yep, and people ignore the Altmers' low birth rate, and the fact that they purge Bosmeri populations which can only lead to unreast. At the very least the Dominion is depriving themselves of bodies for the meat grinder, if not actively fomenting rebellion within their own borders.
@@Nerazmus ''Kick their arses''? The Dominion spared Hammerfell. It took Hammerfell five years to finally fight the Aldmeri to a standstill. That's not 'kicking their arses', that's struggling to grind them to a halt.
@@dutchpatriot17lso The Empire Helped Hammerfell For Some motive Stormcloack Supporters Ignore The Fact that The Imperial Legion on Hammerfell Apparently "Deserted" With Full Gear and Manpower,Hammerfell is Allied with the Empire they will probabily Rejoin when the War Kickstarts again.
I think it would be dope if you could just choose to play as the same dragon born again, or make a new character. It would be a great tool of choice and could be a far cry from the same imprisoned shmuck we keep waking up as. We could traverse skyrim and the the new elder scrolls 6 region (hammerfell) and either try and get them to rejoin the empire or Aid Ulfric stormcloak
Morrowind: An avatar of Talos says that the Empire is old and should be allowed to die. Change is a necessary part of history. Oblivion: The Daedric Prince of Change is coming and the Empire will struggle to survive the damage he causes. The Septim dynasty ends and the Empire begins to collapse. Skyrim: A prophesy says that the last dragonborn will arrive and the wheel of history will turn. Meanwhile, the first dragonborn since the Septims died out has appeared in Skyrim, and a rebellion rises to preserve Talos' presence and cut the Empire in half and leave it for dead, turning the wheel of Tamriel's history, should they succeed. Who do you think I would choose?
Love your Lore videos. As a Redguard Friar of the Divines who was meeting with Ulfric and his entourage to educate them on how the Redguards defied the Empire and fought off the Aldmeri Dominion, and pass on Ulfric's request for Redguard assistance back to Hammerfell before being ambushed, captured, and sentenced to be beheaded by the Empire, I'm currently biased to the Stormcloaks. Enough so to bless Stormcloak patrols before they enter combat. There's also the matter of me minding my business as a travel to help the people of Skyrim and being attacked, currently twice, by Aldmeri Dominion patrols with assassination orders! Seems to me that damned Imperial treaty has been quite dangerous to my well being! I'm a pious man and have no wish to rule. I just want to see good people prosper under the divines and do what I can to eliminate Deadra meddling in the affairs of mortals.
Followed you here from Fudgemuppet. I subscribed after watching one of your videos similar to this one. I truly enjoy your documentary style narration. You could cover any topic and make it fantastic. Your attention to detail is top notch as well. I would love to see you cover series like Bioshock, Knights of the Old Republic, Assassin's Creed, Fallout... Or other things like movies and shows- LOTR, Star Wars, The Matrix, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad... Or even just history. Like, anything that as ever happed that you find yourself interested in enough to want to talk about it. tldr Love your videos. Keep up the great work. Would love to see you cover additional games, movies, shows, and history.
when i was younger i would always go stormcloaks because the imperials imprisoned me at the start of the game but over the years I almost always go with the imperials for this very reason.
The Thalmor Dossier you find in the main quest should be all the evidence one needs to support the Empire in the Skyrim Civil War. Even if he is an unwitting agent, Ulfric's rebellion is playing right into the hands of the Thalmor, and he's completely unaware of it. Tullius is aware, which is why he rushes to execute Ulfric and everyone else at Helgen before the Thalmor on the scene can spring him free - obviously Alduin interfered in that plan. Its actually worse if you don't know a lot of the background lore; to a casual player, the Aldmeri Dominion just seem like unstoppable expansionists. But in the expanded lore, they are literally trying to unmake existence as mortals experience it, so that they can return to the state of being they occupied before Lorkahn. They are an active, existential threat to life as everyone in Tamriel knows it, and the Stormcloaks are unwittingly feeding their side. The Empire is the only choice for the Civil War.
@@Nerazmus Yes and the reason they don’t want a Stormcloak victory is so that the empire continues to maintain jurisdiction over Skyrim to snuff out Talos worship, a key step in their plan to unmake the world; however, they don’t want the Imperials to win a quick victory, either. They want to war to drag on so that the empire bleeds more in Skyrim, making them even weaker for the eventual backstab. A quick resolution of the civil war in Skyrim in favor of the empire maintains the unity of everyone who is on the shortlist for a Dominion smack down. Yes, it does mean in the short term that Talos worship will continue to be persecuted in Skyrim, but given the stakes of the conflict it’s stand together or fall alone, and Ulfric is setting Skyrim up to fall alone.
@@dragoon3266 Yes,m and the reason is they can't make Skyrim into a puppet as they did with the Empire. And it's the exact opposite, fall together or stand alone, as was clearly shown to us with Hammerfel.
@@NerazmusYou people Like to Forget that Hammerfell "Stood Alone" the Same Way Ukraine stood alone against Russia,Hammerfell was a Proxy War The Empire was helping them in the shadows,Like it or not The Empire of Cyrodrill is Humanity Itself,if it breaks appart,Tamriel will be doomed.
Here’s my theory. Every choice the player can make in Skyrim has one thing in common; it doesn’t matter. And that goes for the civil war quest as well. At the end of the game, who leads Skyrim doesn’t mater. The emperor is dead plunging the Empire into chaos. Everyone and their mother will be vying for the role of new emperor. “The leader of Skyrim” is going to make the same choices no matter who they are and will be referred to as just that, “the leader of Skyrim” I would argue the Parthanax choice has bigger consequences for the next game but can be left just as ambiguous in the dialogue of any Blades members in the next game.
I always knew TES VI would be at least 2026, but just hearing it was still in pre production just flattened me 😂 Being a teenager when Skyrim came out it’s ridiculous, I’ll be in my 30s when we finally get the sequel.
Yoo for real
@@jucalebre7540 it’s a bit sad really, there’s now excuse for it to take this long, even with the pandemic. 15 years minimum is ridiculous 😂
@@ericv738 I’d be surprised if half of the original fan base even have the will to play it when it comes out. We’ll all be married with kids 😂
@@saulgoodman2535 Since I'll be 25 when the game finally comes out, that does seem like an imminent possibility.
@@ericv738 I agree, I understand Bethesda wants to do different things, but they’re not a big enough studio for 3 huge open world IPs
HOTTAKE: It does not matter who wins the war. Be it Thalmor, Empire or Stormcloaks and Redguards. The war will leave all sides depleted of resources and in the 6th elderscrolls its all about how the Orcs rise up with their 3rd construction of Orsinium.
based orcs arise
I can get behind that.
Player awakes in Orsinium, every orc nearby, speaking with Ralof's voice "you're finally awake!"
Azura save us from the from the wrath of the Orsimer
all hail malacath
Being able to choose how events played out in Skyrim sounds like a fun idea! Though I wonder how the people would feel about a dark elf Dragonborn empress lmao
Well, she wouldn't be the first.
That would be interesting, but knowing today inclination, they will never allow for player free choice (look at KotOR, BG, ME, and so on).
If you saved the world and the Empire they would probably accept a talking skeever.
Throughout the games, it’s usually been a native to the setting that turns out to be the cannon PC (Dunmer as the cannon Nerevarine, Imperial as the cannon Champion of Cyrodiil/New Sheogorath) So any mention of the PC from Skyrim would canonically be a Nord, but would most likely be ambiguous to fit the player’s head cannon.
What will most likely be said will be that The Dragonborn would’ve been last seen on Solstheim around 4E 202 / 203 and has disappeared since.
@@justinschultheisz4673 I'm guessing after dealing with miraak he disappears inside hermaous moras realm
I still don't understand where the fudgemuppet crew and Drew got the idea that Tiber Septim "faked" being dragonborn. The "Arcturian Heresy" even literally says that Hjalti was revealed to be the actual dragonborn in High Hrothgar because Ysmir Wulfharth was "blasted to ash" by the Greybeards, since only the dragonborn can withstand their voice. The Greybeards literally do the exact same thing to verify that the player character in Skyrim is the real dragonborn, they all shout at you before naming you Ysmir. It also says that during the siege of Old Hroldan, Wulfharth couldn't have been the one to shout down the walls because he was the storm above Hjalti's head that protected Hjalti and his troops from enemy fire while Hjalti was the one to shout down the walls. There is literally nothing in any book in game that would put Talos'/Tiber Septim's status as a dragonborn into question, rather every single version of his story verifies that he was one.
I thought Ysmir possessed hjalti to shout through him?
Dragon Break.
I mean, uh… different Universe, or Timeline, or…
Mmm… Thanos did it!
Sh*t.
Fire the current writer.
Fudge muppet are being paid by the thalmor spreading False propaganda.
Tiber Septim was originally no Dragon born, not before the dragon break that merged him, the King of Worms, and Ysmir Wulfharth into one entity.
@@Yuudaddy That's kind of a theory, don't blame you though, elder scrolls canon and theory are really hard to distinguish
Decisions made in Skyrim will have as much to do with ES6 as the ones made in Oblivion have in Skyrim: almost none other than some statues, book mentions and artifacts carrying on to the next game.
💯 in reality it won't matter because we will be in a new era but it'll still be interesting to find out what happened to all these charectars but imagine them just saying "fuck it we ain't even gonna cover it." 😭
The hero of Oblivion becomes a Daedric prince and is one you meet in Skyrim so its been done before
Except the Aldmeri Dominion formed and the Great War and then Skyrim civil war happened because of the Oblivion Crisis. Had it not occured, all those events would've never happened.
@@youtubeshadowbannedme And what part did the player have in any of that? The player in Oblivion is nothing more than Martin's sidekick. The Nerevarine in Morrowind is more important than the Hero of Kvatch in Oblivion. Speaking of Morrowind, how much of Morrowind effected events in Cyrodiil during the Oblivion Crisis? Or even better, how about that Dragon Break, that ultimate example of "who cares what you did, everything that could happen did happen" which replaces the multiple endings of Daggerfall? Nothing. Nothing you, as the player, do matters as far as the next game in the Elder Scrolls. The main story will always happen, then the PC will disappear into legend, only to be replaced with the next game's PC.
@@mortemtyrannus8813 if we go by the assumption that every PC in Elder Scrolls is just an aspect of Lorkhan (including Talos), then you're wrong
My friend, Drew. This is once again a truly remarkable "telling". I know it is just "one man's opinion" but I believe you have looked into this rather deeply, translated (to some degree) the prophecy and have based your opinion on what facts have been presented. This is good for many reasons and in many scenarios. Again, I have to say (sorry for the repetition) you are still the BEST story teller around.
Thank you so much.
This is such a load of fucking crap 😂 if you look into it objectively it’s the Stormcloaks who are just and who are right, the Nords deserve their freedom and their independence
Bruh this is literally just all based on fan theory from non-cannon sources 🤦♂️
hm too bad, they should have thought about that before they tried to decapitate me for no reason
"Khajiit has crown if you have empire."
-Mr. Tickles The First, Dragonborn emperor of Tamriel. _('no! that cat's a werewolf!')_
its almost been 11 years, and people are still making videos about Skyrim.... this game is Legendary.
Love the lore videos. It's great to see your channel grow.
This video is bullshit
I've long been in the Imperial camp for these very reasons and it's usually what I make my character's motivations based on in my play-throughs.
I just want you to know these lore videos are greatly appreciated, I'm so glad there are people like you that keep Elder Scrolls alive in these slower times. Thank you!
There hardly any real lore here
Let’s put it this way:
If wasn’t for the player showing up at the wrong place and the wrong time, the Empire was *about* to win.
Is what you’re saying, that Alduin only attacked Helgen because the Dragonborn was there? Or are you saying that the empire was about to win aside from the fact that they captured Ulfric?
@@OP5redsolocup
Yes
By an event we don't know what happen. The Empire was going to win by an intelligent tactic or simply a lucky strike. We never know. I can say that some stormcloak rat whistle the position of Ulfric and that's how they ambush them and i'm not completely wrong or right because there is no info that certifies or contradict me. So stating that the Empire was winning the war using as base darkwater crossing is unconclusive. What we actually know and is a fact is that ulfric with only a veteran (galmar) and her rebel troops were having a stalemate against a legion of local recruits (meaning Nords against Nords, best human warriors) being helped by imperial legionaires, the support of the court of solitude and also being lead by one of the Best generals of the Empire. I think that quitting darkwater crossing of the equation (and with reason because there is no info about that) is very clear that the stormcloaks were and are the stronger side.
Not necessarily. The rebellion isn't Ulfric. It is Talosians. The Anglosaxons didn't end with the death of King Harold and the Norman victory at the battle of hastings, for example. If Ulfric dies he could become a martyr of the rebellion with an aggrandized mythology that eclipses the real man. Striking him down making him more powerful than ever, to steal a phrase.
@@vulkanofnocturne
“You started this War; plunged Skyrim into chaos! …and now the Empire is gonna put you down, and restore the Peace!”
-General Tullius
Also this:
Tullius: "I hope we haven't just created a martyr."
Rikke: "There's bound to be resistance. There are many Stormcloak camps tucked away in the hills. They'll no doubt strike whenever and wherever they can. But without Ulfric to inflame their passions, they'll settle down and return to their homes eventually."
Tullius: "I pray you're right, Legate. In the meantime, we'll continue to root them out and put them to the sword."
…at the *END of the CIVIL WAR* questline.
Was just re-listing to TES podcast Imperials vs Stormcloaks episode when this one came out. Nice work! It will be interesting to see what they decide is canon with TESVI, or if they will avoid it.
Also I have no leanings either way. I think I went with Stormcloaks in my first playthrough but since have done either, mostly avoiding it. Both sides have the same amount of positive and negative traits. And there’s always the possibility that an independent Skyrim could fight beside the empire to stave off Aldmeri takeover. (Irl: Look how many countries are now allies only 80 years after they were enemies in WW2)
@No Considering the Emperor will probably be the faceless player character from Skyrim, as it is their rightful throne as dragonborn, who knows what will happen.
There is a "Mysterious Hero" who plays major roles in the first great war if you read the full story of it, definitely a protagonist of a future game right there, probably not es6, but yeah.
@No I think the people would want the dragonborn as emperor regardless of what mede's heir wants, and it would likely bring more unity to crown him than to not, as everyone agrees a dragonborn should be on the throne because they see it as the gods choosing them.
But I do see your point, and it is probably what's going to happen as it follows the pattern.
Civil war in Skyrim, Ayleid, Alessian and imperial lore, all in one? Drewmora, this is another amazing recount. I have watched your content for a long while. It has been a light in very dark moments. Thank you very much, I am looking forward to the continued growth of your channel.
I love the lore while I listen and work. Can't usually see it but I hear everything.
I think there's an entirely possible outcome where the Mede Dynasty continues to flounder, as spurred on by the assassination of the emperor, and skyrim is taken by ulfric. The focus would then be on the unity of Skyrim, Hamymerfell, High Rock(, and probably a few other provinces idk) to oppose the Aldmeri dominion. I think there is potential for a much bigger war-based main quest that culminates at the adamantine tower. It *could* lead to a very good questline and main story.
I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I think you perhaps have the imagination to explore what this could look like better than I do. It would make potentially more lore sense, as perhaps the events at helgen do inspire the dragonborn to oppose the imperials? Only time will tell.
Having said that, this is a great read of the topic as it stands today, I'm not disavowing your perspective at all!
If the emperor is a puppet of the thalmor then wtf is the point of uniting the empire? Wouldn't it be better to give the nords sovereignty and allow alliances to naturally form between sovereign nations against the dominion?
Your idea for the plot of ES6 is very intriguing and I think you may be on the right track. Some of the details may be a bit off, but that's the nature of speculative work. I think you may be right about the Thalmor wanting The Creation Towers because they believe they can use them to do something, but I hesitate to further assume that their goal is undoing creation, though it might be!
I don't agree that an Empire Victory is that much better for Tamriel than a Stormcloak victory. Either way lots of troops are lost, and there isn't much hope for the Empire to ever become what it was again. Also, I believe it's more than likely that Bethesda intends the Stormcloaks as the canon winner.
As of now, I don't think Bethesda intends for the Last Dragonborn to have significance beyond the events of Skyrim, but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed their minds. Dragonborns have always been important in Elder Scrolls lore and the Last Dragonborn very well may have been created to reintroduce the Dragon Blood to the post-Septim plane of Mundus. However, Martin Septim's essence was frozen in the Dragon Statue upon his sacrifice, which seems to serve as a permanent blockage between Mundus and Oblivion, making the Dragonfires no longer necessary, and in turn a Dragonborn Emperor no longer necessary. Lastly, given the namesake, "Last Dragonborn," I think the prophecy is saying that this will be the last one because it's the last one that will ever be needed, so the Dragon Blood wont be distributed again. But like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if Bethesda went back on that because Elder Scrolls without Dragonborns would be a big change.
Great video! It really made me think.
We don't know for certain the full mechanics behind how Dragonblood is passed on. If it is fully hereditary, than the 'Last Dragonborn' means 'last LINE of Dragonborns' not necessarily the very last. The Septims, from what we can tell, are all a direct linage. At least Uriel VII and Martin seem to be certain they are directly descended from Tiber Septim. The Remens had 3 named Remens but we don't really know the relation that the others like Kastav had, possibly brothers, possibly completely unrelated, we just don't know. The First Empire, the bloodline seems to be all over the damn place since there's no evidence that Alessia had kids or that she was related to Morhaus for instance. BUT, there's also no evidence against the possibility that they were all just different lines of dragonborns. The Blades went looking for other lines of Dragonborn after the Oblivion crisis, it possible they knew about other lines in the past that have died out. There's simply too many unknowns with how it all works that we can't say with any certainty what is meant by 'Last Dragonborn'.
I personally think Bethesda will keep the Dragonborn around in the series, probably as the shadowy leader of the reformed Blades in TES:VI at the very least. Just simply too central to the lore and worldbuilding. Also Skyrim was a huge market success, they need some nod to the huge influx of fans the Elder Scrolls got in 2011 for a long time to come. They simply can't just have the Dragonborn fade away completely like past games. No complete vanishing acts with no plot future impacts like the Nevervine or running off to Oblivion like the Champion of Cyrodiil, but running the Blades from the shadows. You're very correct that the Dragonborn doesn't need to wear the Amulet of kings anymore, nor does there really need to be a Dragonborn Emperor to hold back Oblivion since Martins sacrifice. But a Dragonborn problem solver in the shadows is something Tamriel could certainly use. It'd also allow the Blades to remain a joinable faction in future games, with questlines just like the Fighters Guild or Thieves Guild. They could be tangential to the Main story or be the main story quests like in Morrowind. The Dragonborn would remains an active player in Tamriel, as a faction leader running the Blades and probably ending up with the new Player character being the regional leader of the Blades in Hammerfell with TES:VI. For future games beyond 6, that's super speculation land and I doubt it's helpful to go there.
Yessssss. Grow channel, grow! Become the quintessential TES lore platform we want to see you become
I had no idea how much I missed Drew’s contributions until now. I love your style of storytelling.
Unification is indeed the answer to the coming second Great War. But I do not think further subjugation from the Empire over its former provinces is the only way to unify.
And here is why a Stormcloak victory does not have to mean an ineffective, divided front to the Dominion.
With Skyrim declaring independence and Titus Mede II dead, the new ruler (perhaps influenced by the political plot mentioned by Motierre) has a chance to unify the divided Empire through alliances rather than imperial conquest.
By officially recognising Hammerfell and Skyrim as sovereign entities, they could unify against the Dominion as a military alliance.
Warsaw Pact/NATO setup.
I had a realization when I replayed the latest edition of Skyrim: it doesn't actually matter who wins the Civil War because both outcomes wash out within a generation. I say this because the only Jarl that stays in place is Elisif, and she's also the perfect High Queen, because she's easy to manipulate and the only person that has a bad word to say about her is Erikur. Even most Stormcloak Jarls question Ulfric. Even if the Stormcloaks win, the Kingsmoot will probably end up electing Elisif anyway because they trust her but not Ulfric.
I suspect that the Dovakhin will become either the Emperor or the new Talos. I suspect that Titus Mede II dies no matter which Dark Brotherhood questline you took because if you don't kill him, Babette will. And she would be the perfect leader for the new Dark Brotherhood after the Dovakhin leaves Skyrim.
One way or another, the PC has to become a shadow, just like in previous games. In Oblivion, you became Sheogorath, and everyone sees you as him no matter what you chose to look like, because that's you wear that mantle. If you mantle Talos and make another appearance , that's what people will see.
Or maybe you're the new Emperor. In that case, you're still a shadow, part of the Dovakhin Dynasty. Your descendants won't be biologically yours though, but rather one of the kids you adopted. Your grandchild can then be the canonical character. So maybe they set Redfall a hundred years after Skyrim?
In any case, post Skyrim, there will be a new Empire, so it won't matter who won the Civil War. Both sides will claim victory. And both will be right in their own ways.
There is no way that the Stormcloak Jarls would fight a war against the Empire just to put Elisif on the throne, nor would they trust her not to just surrender to the Empire. Not to mention, the common Nords would be supporting Ulfric. Putting Elisif on the throne would lead to another civil war that would ultimately result in Ulfric dissolving the Moot and making himself High King by force.
@@galacticknight55544 Jarl Ulfric dissolving the moot is probable, but unlikely.
Redfall is the name of Arkane’s vampire shooter game, not TES VI.
Please no more huge time jumps. It might take a century for TES6 to come out, but I hope it is set no more than a decade after Skyrim.
Nah if anything if the stormcloaks win the jarls end up electing the Dragonborn
The Dovahkiin will be the new Emperor once again lighting the dragon fires.
✔ Restored the blades
✔ The previous Emporer is assassinated
✔ Has Dragons who serve the Dragonborn like Talos did
Bathesda essentially set you up to become the next emporer/empress if you look at it from an aggregate perspective.
By your logic, Nerevarine would have been ruling Morrowind
@@Henrex2000 Nerevarine *should* have been ruling Morrowind.
Unless you get rid of Delphine the Idiot good luck getting the Blades and the Dragons to be freinds
If only bethesda didn't set up the DLC's in a way that makes Hermeus Mora capture the dragonborn in his pocket of oblivion and makes him his new champion. So no emperor/empress throne for you
The Amulet of Kings was destroyed and the deal was finished.
I think it depends on what the Stormcloaks do after the events of Skyrim. I'd also add, Dragonborn intervention isn't really a fair point. If the Dovahkiin sides with the Empire and becomes Emperor, its just as fair to say the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks and ally with other provinces. Taking on the same role as Talos in the 2nd Era, eventually becoming Emperor.
Outside of Dragonborn intervention, Ulfric has show he's willing to work with other races, as seen with him sending letters to Highrock for aid against the Empire. If he sends those letters to Hammerfell instead, he probably could get aid from the Redguards against the Empire and Dominion. Both provinces protecting each other. Ulfric also has the voice, its possible he'd attempt to do what Talos failed to do, reopen that school for the voice in Markarth (I doubt it though, he does seem to honor the Greybeards in some sense).
Highrock would probably secede and join the Red/Nord collective at that point. Not only are they cut off from the Empires protection, but are flanked from both sides. The Stormcloaks are in the same position the Empires in currently if that happens. Possibly more unified by comparison than the current Empire. Who, which we know (thanks to the Brotherhood quest line) is having its own internal power struggle.
I could see the Elder Counsel at that point just siding with the Northern provinces. The Elves haven't attacked yet, likely because they haven't recouped from the last war. Elves have long reproductive cycles while man can reproduce all year round. Even if the Elves take Cyrodiil while all this was going on, they'll still have the internal strife from the locals to deal with. I could see local militias forming in defiance, even Bruma becoming a part of Skyrim. Giving the Northern alliance a launching point into Cyrodiil. Its also a bit harder to kill off a decentralized force working together than it is an centralized Empire with internal strife.
Not that I expect any of this to happen, I think TESVI will likely be about the Empire getting its finest warriors back. Preparing for the fight against the Dominion. The second great war will probably span two games, with TES:VI preventing the Thalmor from taking the Adamantine Tower and TES:VII taking the fight to the Dominion provinces.
"its just as fair to say the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks and ally with other provinces."
The issue with this is the groups the Stormcloaks would be allying with have already fought the Aldmeri Dominion back when they were more unified and fresher. They had more resources, better logistics and just a better chance. Now, the Stormcloaks would have gone through a long, bloody war and been weakened. As would the remnants of the Empire, or the people of Cyrodil post-Empire. That is the same whether the Empire or Stormcloaks win, but the thing that changes if the Stormcloaks win is the logistics and willingness for all the different groups to work together.
Sure, we could argue the Stormcloaks ally with the remnants of the Empire, but it wouldn't have any of the cohesion the Empire had. The groups would be independent and only loosely coupled. The U.S. saw how that worked out immediately after the Revolutionary War. There was no cohesion between the states so most unified actions were nearly impossible. The different groups will see themselves as different and cooperation becomes more tricky than if the groups see themselves as a cohesive whole. Now, normal strategy immediately becomes a diplomatic game of who is going to come out ahead and who is going to take the biggest hits. I doubt Morrowind is willing to send a bunch of their soldiers off to die fighting the Aldmeri Dominion at the request of the Stormcloaks even if it is strategically sound. Now they have to worry about the long-term and having a bitter rival on their doorsteps without the unifying aspect of the Empire keeping them secure.
"Outside of Dragonborn intervention, Ulfric has show he's willing to work with other races, as seen with him sending letters to Highrock for aid against the Empire."
I also see this as a kind of funny thought because, while Ulfric may be willing to work with other races, his base certainly isn't. So, I'm not sure if Ulfric decides to start working along with the other races that he won't just have the Stormcloak Rebellion pt. 2, this time against himself. That's the problem with inflaming base emotions to fuel mistrust - it doesn't just turn off when it's convenient.
All in all, I don't really see a way to have the Aldmeri Dominion lose without some hail mary mcguffin in ESVI. The second the Stormcloak rebellion started, the Aldmeri gained a big advantage. The only benefit to the other side was the Dragonborn coming and stopping it from bleeding both sides to death. Now, they're just grievously wounded.
@@Cyrathil The second treaty of Stros M'kai was signed in 4th Era 180, 21 years before the events if Skyrim. I believe that's enough time for Redguards to replenish a generation of potential fighters. With the Crowns and Forebears unified, they may already have a decent fighting force. Maybe not enough to war with the Dominion alone, but with the allying of others its possible.
Neither the Stormcloaks nor the Empire really have the cohesion the early 4th and late 3rd Era Empire once had. They either force Skyrim back into the Empire, still maintaining the tensions of the civilian populace, or lose Skyrim and be left at the mercy of the Dominion.
As far as Ulfrics base not being willing to work with other races, thats debatable. The standard propaganda of the Empire is that all the Nords who support Ulfric are racists who want to rid Skyrim of all outsiders. While this is true to an extent, most of the Nordic racial hatred is directed most prominently at Elven and Beast folk. Sure they may have a contempt for other races of men, but even in the heart of Windhelm, there are Imperials and Bretons that live in the prosperous parts of the city. This is hard to discern due to Windhelm being ridiculously small in game, but I think its safe to assume that within a lore sized province. Most Nords would be more willing to work with the races of man against the Elves or a common threat. True, there's no hope for long lasting unity amongst the provinces, but they don't need that to defeat the Dominion (unless they half-ass it and let the Dominion off under a treaty). Even in lore there are instances of provinces forming unlikely alliances to defeat a common enemy. The Dunmer allying with the Nords and Argonians to defeat the Frost demons of Akavir for example. Its possible that the same could happen here.
I didn't even mention Morrowind, they hate the Empire and dislike the Nords so either way they likely wouldn't even factor in.
Although I do agree, the Dominion is the most likely to win in truth, from a writing standpoint. Although overall, I expect the Empire to pull off the impossible with another doom driven hero of fate saving humanity at the last minute.
I love this debate
I agree with every thing else just not the first bit, if you think the Mede Empire is just going to allow the dragonborn to take their throne you clearly don't understand medieval Politics, the Dragonborn has a Legitimate claim to the ruby throne unlike the Mede who claimed it via Conquest killing the Old empire in the Process as soon as the civil war is over Tullius will get orders to arrest and execute the dragonborn Orders from the Emperor him self.
Dragonborn siding with Ulfric makes sense from a non dragonborn Prisoner sense and after the destiny of Dragonborn revealed sense as Ulfric can help the Dragonborn Legitimately claim the throne sends spies and messengers to the other human Provinces about his return and letters to the Count/countess of Cyrodill.
from their the people and Lords will choose their side, plus the medes might send assassins and the Dragonborn can use that as fuel to his/her cause.
@@CommanderM117 well I was responding to Drews idea and many others who believe the Dragonborn could become emperor. Its why I said: "if the Dragonborn sides with the empire and becomes emperor, its just as fair to say he/she sides with Ulfric and allies with other provinces, eventually becoming Emperor".
Personally I'm not a fan of either of these idea's. Making the Dragonborn Emperor is a bit too railroaded in my opinion. I'd prefer they left the Dovahkiin's ending loose enough for the player to decide what happened to them in the next game.
It hurts my heart a little you being away from fudgemuppet but it is so good watching your videos
Everyone has theories on how Bethesda will handle the civil war but I've never seen anyone mention this: have we considered the possibility that the war could end with a dragon break meaning that both sides are victorious simultaneously?
That’s a lame trick they’ve already done. It shouldn’t be overused. Some people are going to be let down. I hate to say it but even if their reasons are good I do not think a stormcloak victory is ultimately is better than an imperial one. Lots of wishful thinking about northern alliances and using a specific condition in Hammerfell to illustrate how they will ultimately prevail. The war was a bad idea. But how do you tell the passionate supporters (and players) that?
That would be very lame!
@@TheMeestLord yeah I don't like the idea, just never heard mention of the possibility. And I don't think people understand that the empire left tons of discharged troops in Hammerfell to keep fighting. I'm generally imperial, I understand the stormcloaks but if they win tamriel loses. Divide and conquer. A strong unified empire is the best chance. And yes, people just assume there would be great alliances of the independent provinces that would just be perfectly coordinated together and everything and that's just not realistically very likely to happen.
I don't think they'll dragonbreak Skyrim's story away. But they've talked about how much they're looking to Daggerfall for inspiration and TES 6 will be set on the same landmass. I think they'll end TES 6 with a Dragonbreak just like Daggerfall.
It dumb and lazy when they did it with daggerfalls ending, and I don’t want it with Skyrims ending. It would be even worse with Skyrims ending because it wouldn’t even be unique.
Unity, Duty and Destiny, it's the Dragonborn's Duty to Unify the Empire, and eventually the Dragonborn's Destiny to lead the Empire
Can’t wait to read the books in 6 to see what Bethesda’s canon answer is
I usually choose the Empire, albeit reluctantly but I think the sixth game could be more fun if it involves wrestling control of Tamriel away from the Thalmor, especially if you get to do so in all the different realms and also at sea. Bonus points if you get some of the more benevolent Daedra to help you do it. MY biggest concern is the Soul Cairn, I am hoping to find another way to enchant things and to do so in a way that causes the collapse of the soul cairn and to do a big blow to the current forces of evil and also a means to prepare the way for a different kind later...
One of my favorite playthroughs was as a high elf price fleeing the thelmore and pushing back with the Stormcloaks
always wanted to do that kind of playthrough.
„pushing back"
My Elf prince helped, Their fight for freedom to worship
I’ve always appreciated the potential tactical advantage gained by surrendering part of Hammerfell.
The Empire may have done so unwillingly, but that they did agree to do so now allows the Redguards to stretch thin the Dominion’s Armies while the Empire regains some strength.
Were it not for the Stormcloak Rebellion, the Empire could have gained an incredible advantage over the Dominion, but alas now both major factions have to divert efforts rather than prepare for the future.
Greymane or Battleborn is the real question
Touching back on this I firmly believe that you are correct in this affirmation Drew.
Given thus, the Empire must be the victors:
-Not for their selfish gainsake; the empire does not wish to alienate the Nords, subjugate them, uproot their culture or any of these things.
-The Empire's play in the civil war is plainly thus; To be able to count the Nords as Allies within a future endeavour should they need them.
-The Empire knows how important Talos is to Nordic culture, let alone their own. Talos is sacred in Cyrod and there is no denying this.
-Accepting the Thalmor's agreement was merely the tender gesture of being able to sustain as the Empire and perservere until later things could be corrected, returning Talos and all promised lands.
- To be able to hold dominion over Skyrim does not mean replacing its rulers, if we look back to how Skyrim took care of itself for near thousands of years- Skyrim being apart of the Empire does not sway their fundamental way of managing their country.
- Ulfric indeed spoke not only for all Nords, but for the Empire too. As even the Empire was too weak to admit, the entire foundation of empire swears by what Ulfric and his vision--- yet the ambitious and hasty nature to revert things to how they were prior to Thalmor machination for the mere 'pride' of being a Nord is as narrow and egotistic as the Thalmor's mission itself.
Biding time, patience, seeing the longterm, recluse, honor, dignity and grace all things that Ulfric could benefit from, if not we all. This is the Empire, sustainability, allowing the possibility, being humble enough to bow their heads in momentaria and see the rights form as time's inevitable passage would wage. Skyrim unified with Cyrodill, together with Morrowind and its people, and Hammerfell is sphere for hope and peace. The morals of the Nords are very commendable, but execution, to fight against the Empire instead of unifying in front of the Thalmor, I feel compassion for the blinded sight of it.
I would argue that, even though I tend to support the Imperial Legion in my playthroughs for exactly this reason, a Stormcloak victory does not necessarily bode ill for Tamriel either. As you say, the Thalmor wish a prolonged conflict. The Dragonborn supporting the Stormcloaks would transform what they had hoped would be a destabilizing force in the region into a stabilizing power. And here's another big point: Ulfric Stormcloak HATES the Thalmor. Once Skyrim's independence is assured, it wouldn't take much convincing for High King Ulfric to ally himself with the other nations of Tamriel who wish to oppose the Aldmeri Dominion. If circumstance brought it about, Skyrim would likely use such an alliance to secure concessions and a solid acknowledgment of their independence from the Empire, squeezing some political gain from the situation, but they would *be* united against the Thalmor either way.
With regards to the Skyrim Civil War, my belief is that the Dragonborn's only losing move is not to play.
Unless of course, you’re playing a really old fashioned elven character.
Didn't the Thalmor's dossier on Ulric imply he is a sleeper agent in some way that could be activated to their advantage?
@@thaliazelmer2327 The dossier changes based on what side you chose to back to make it seem you picked the right one.
@@wessmoore7894 It doesn't change.
@@thaliazelmer2327 Nope, the Thalmor dossier for Ulfric says that he is an "Uncooperative asset", in other words his rebellion is useful but he isn't in any way willing to work with the Thalmor, because he hates them. The whole thing condensed essentially reveals that during the great war, the Thalmor captured and tortured Ulfric for information, making him believe that he was the reason they captured the imperial city even though the city fell before Ulfric revealed anything under torture. Ulfric then became riddled with guilt, because he thinks the White-Gold Concordat was his fault, and the Thalmor later on prodded him to cause the Markarth incident, but at the same time he proved to be "uncooperative to direct contact". Ulfic started the rebellion because he's trying to "fix what he broke" in his own mind, because the worship of Talos and freedom of the Nords are super important to him, and all this time he's thought that it's his weakness for breaking under torture that has allowed the Thalmor to terrorise people in Skyrim and ban Talos worship.
You know I was actually waiting for someone to make a video on this topic and when I realised it's you (the guy that made some of the best elden ring content I have seen), I just had to sub.
Also a note on Ulfric and Talos worship: the ban on the worship was not enforced by the Empire in Skyrim until Ulfric captured Markarth so bloodily (needlessly bloody) and demanded it to be reinstated. One of Ulfric's main points is something he caused himself.
@@W0KeIzEvil Everyone just did it behind closed doors with no fuss. Ulfric is the one who forced the Empire into cracking down on it.
@@badluck5647 But, those who did it behind closed doors were opening themselves up to oppression. "Do what I say or I report your Talos worship to the Authorities" is literally something the DB can do in Skyrim. One could even argue that outlawing Talos worship in the first place is part of a plan for the Dominion to arrest any Nord or Imperial that they don't like for whatever reason and still appear legitimate. Not that I personally think Talos is a figure worthy of worship, but it's foolish to say the best course of action is simply breaking the law and making no attempt to change it. Maybe for the average person in a bad situation I can excuse it, but not someone who's supposed to be a leader. Very shortsighted, and the elves are playing the long game.
I don't think its fair to blame him for that. It was outlawed and inevitable that the dominion would eventually start prosecuting the worshippers of talos.
Facts. He butchered civilians and then gets the Law cracked down even harder.
Ulfric is his own worst enemy
People were smoking pot behind doors most white people were never bothered but black people had to suffer long sentences for it. In skyrim probably the same all the poor n disenfranchised folk get to be persecuted while cowards act like nothing is happening.
Thank you Drew I've tried to explain this to Heimskir but his corpse has been dead since I noticed how annoying he was in my first playthrough.
I'd be a lot warmer and a lot happier if they had never put a civil war in Skyrim.
I've never seen a polite discussion on the issue.
See, I watch a lot of videos of people saying "The Empire must win Skyrim or else they will crumble and everyone loses", but that's not really true. It could happen, but everyone talks as if it is absolute. Imagine if Britain called up the US during WWI or WWII and said, "hey you need to rejoin our empire for the fate of humanity or else we all die". That's silly. The US, as a sovereign nation, assisted massively to end the war. Likewise, a sovereign Skyrim could very much be the same. Allow the Empire to gather it's resources where needed, which is clearly not Skyrim, and let Skyrim build itself up. Allow them their sovereignty and make them an ally. That's how you win wars.
That is such a bad comparison. Skyrim is nothing like the US.
Bethesda set you up to become the emperor.
You restore the Blades. The blades were created as the emperors personal guards and secret service.
You kill the former Emperor, and leaves a vacuum of power.
You are dragon born, you control and ride dragons. You defeated a world/universal threat.
Add it up.
And then they sent us to Solstheim, where the Last Dragonborn was forced to not only help Hermaeus Mora (to save everybody one last time), but to read AND seek out the hidden knowledge of a mind-corrupting Black Book to do so. And odds are, they did it with way more than just one Black Book.
...I'm worried about the Dragonborn, guys hahahaha.
If they wrote out the Neravarine, the Hero of Kvatch, as well as each of the previous hero's, I doubt the Last Dragonborn will not be written out of the story as well, especially after the Dragonborn DLC and reading multiple Black Books. You can add up what you want but there's already a pattern that has emerged over the series.
Nahhh he/she is hanging out in Apocrypha forever
@@donovanfaust3227This is true, and mostly lazy writing on Bethesdas part. The Dragonborn could still become the Emperor, though, and be written out just as easily due to the passage of time. It all depends on how far in the future the next title is going to be. I have a feeling it's going to be another 200 years minimum, to avoid overlapping timeliness that early TES games faced, like Oblivion only being a few years after Morrowind. Also because Skyrim came out well over 10 years ago, and having the next game be a significant time jump would help distance itself from it. This frees them up to do what they want without being held down by the prior games events. The Dragonborn is too big and too important to the Empire to simply ignore. Depending on what they do and if there is still an Emperor, it could be said that they are descendants of The Last Dragonborn. As for the events of Apocrypha, I don't think the Daedric Prince ever had a hold on the Last Dragonborn the way he had on Miraak, due to him simply being able to leave the realm at will, which Miraak was never able to do, and left Hermaeus Mora in disbelief. Though I admit it is ominous when he says something like "you shall return someday" at the end. This last part may be headcanon, but I like to subscribe to the idea that the Last Dragonborn is an aspect of Shor, which is why you could sit in his throne in Sovengard and why The Daedric Prince had no real hold over him/her in Apocrypha.
Delphine is the reason why I will never bring the blades back
Nice to see you once again. Great video :)
Glad to see you started your own channel. I missed your lore videos. Thanks, and keep it up. The Thalmor must be stopped.
wish we could ask Ulfric about that report we can take from the Thalmor Embassy, that's what's holding me back from supporting his "cause"
I think it's a fallacy to assume that a Stormcloak win in Skyrim precludes unification against the Thalmor. Skyrim knows how to be allies with other provinces, and it makes a lot of sense for Hammerfell and Skyrim to ally if they do leave the Empire. I think unity against the Thalmor is more important than being under the banner of the Cyrodillic Empire.
Agreed. Additionally, the Empire has already lost several of its holdings to the Thalmor, be it during the Great War or in the aftermath of the White-Gold Concordat (looking at Hammerfell specifically for the latter). Even if the Empire wins the Civil War in Skyrim, they'll still have to reclaim the other provinces - a task made all the harder by the Empire slowly crumbling away.
In contrast, the Stormcloaks are a new 'faction', but should they win the Civil War, they'd prove their own might against the Thalmor - something that the Redguards would likely appreciate, and that appreciation and kinship could be a unifying factor between the two, along with their respective victories over the Thalmor. They may have to convince the other provinces of their might and ability, but they'd have an easier time of it than a crumbling Empire.
(I say this as someone who likes the Empire, as an aside. I have a lot of fond memories of Cyrodiil, and I like the idea of the Empire continuing to exist in Tamriel as an active faction. That said, though... well, one has to weigh everything.)
@@Hexium_Vexium -- The Stormcloaks winning the Civil War doesn't prove their superiority over the Thalmor..
It only proves that they're willing to kill their own to win a pointless argument.
A wise Hammerfell or High Rock leader will see this. Besides, Ulfric's reputation would spread there, and they would know that he was captured during the Dominion War, and that he also started a war just to become High King. No matter how you try to spin it, either by being a good guy or by being power hungry, THAT was always the goal.
Those leaders, realistically, would see that and question why they should ally with someone as questionably sus as Ulfric.
@@GyorBox It is absolutely not a 'pointless argument.'
I think it would be far more interesting for the Empire to loose to the Stormcloaks which allows High Rock to just quietly slip away as well. The Kingdom of Cyrodiil, not the Empire.
@@ajsouza3720 the whole point of the war was so the storm cloaks could weaken the empire further so yes the war is very pointless beacuse it only furthers the goals of the damn elves.
Ulfric Stormcloak is the True high King of Skyrim down with the thalmor and there Imperial dogs… Change my mind
I like your idea of a Dragonborn emperor, and that they player chooses the events of Skyrim. I hope they implement this. It feels like the perfect conclusion to the Last Dragonborn's storyline.
"More like the White-Brown concord, cause I wiped my ass with it!"-Stormcloak Soldier
going to take a good guess that TES6 may take place during a time where the results of the Skyrim Civil War would have very little relevance
The Drewster uploads again!
It's already cannon that the empire wins. It's very obscure, and requires players to not overlook a single piece of paper, on a table in one of the forts during the civil war story line. It's not tied to any quest, nor are you ever prompted to read it for any reason. However, depending on which faction the player chooses. The paper has different writing on it. If you choose to be the empire. It's a note written by a Stormcloak about being afraid that the legions are amassing across the border and that the winter snows are all that stand between them and total destruction. That Ulfric must secure his claim before the melt. Otherwise the rebellion is done. If you choose Stormcloaks. The note details how the Empire is using farmers and old men to fight for Tullius'. BUT....They're only job is to hold out long enough for the snows to melt and the Legions can cross into Skyrim and put down Ulfric. So the army is 100% there, as the Stormcloak fears. But, the actual full mights of the legion can't get into Skryim due to it's remoteness and hostile weather. And due to divisiveness and the recent wars around Tamriel, Skyrim can barely muster a suitable force of it's own. It really is old men, fighting teenagers with rusty swords over old relics and ruins. Not some grand civil war. So the quest is accurate to the reality of the situation and not cut content. It also make Ulfic really look like a piece of shit. Which he is, considering.
That is, following the lore, a great nonsense. The Empire has all his legions almost destroyed after great war. The remaining ones are in cyrodill protecting the sobereign of the Empire. So it's logistically stupid to move a single legion to skyrim because that would mean letting cyrodill open to an attack of the Thalmor. It's literally the reason why Tullius legion is filled of local recruits and only some few legionaires. So that of the Empire having legions outside of skyrim is most likely propaganda to make fear the stormcloaks when they read it or Bethesda poor writing. But it's not true, because the lore contradicts that.
And again that's bullshit, and you don't know the lore. Skyrim is the only province with High Rock that still have the sufficient manpower to make an army. They literally never were directly in the great war and were only used some legions of Nords, not all of them. And those few legions were the responsibles of allow that Mede escaped from the capital and the principal responsibles of killing the majority of the Thalmor army during Red Ring (and in inferiority and surrounded against the best battlemages of the continent, so clearly the Nords can fight against magic).
They are no teenagers dumbass, the major part of the stormcloaks are veterans and the same ones that anhiliate the Thalmor army. Those soldiers with rusty swords were the principal responsibles of winning the war and were always the principal manpower of the Empire during all his history. It's a stalemate precisely because are Nords against Nords, the Best ones against the Best ones. If the legion of Tullius was filled with only imperials the stormcloaks would have won a long time ago. An imperial win is not canonic and it's not realistic if you know and analyze the lore. Don't say nonsenses. An independent skyrim is the best outcome and can defend their land better without the concordat chains and the shitty logistic of the Empire. The redguards already prove that.
Their isnt a full might the empire losy 90% of its teritory between obluvion and skyrim it hasnt git taht type of man power
That was before the dragons return tho
Ulfric is a great man and did nothing wrong
Never rung a bell so fast in my life
I’ve always figured that with a stormcloak win, the human races(or at least the nords) have a higher chance (if only individually) against the thalmor as Talos is a human god, and the worship of him makes him more powerful, thus with more worship of talos in universe the stronger the nord/human races, thus higher chance against the high elves. And being independent yet allied with the empire against the thalmor is still an option after the fact
Ulfric has already been seen to work with the thalmor and the thalmors plan to help the stormcloaks get independence was to remove the alliance of men, its a part of their grand strategy against the empire. On talos he is only an aedra and therefore offers little practical support to the humans, espicially if only skyrim is worshipping him which is what happens if the stormcloaks win.
I am pretty sure that gods in TES do not work that way. Having more worshippers changes nothing.
@@Meshifuari it does, more worship for aedra affects their power and influence but it can also affect how they take shape, for example akatosh (the god of time) was oringally worshipped as auri-el in the altmer pantheon and the god of time was accepted to be auri-el. it's has less affect of the daedra but still holds some influence on their power. To further back this up this is the entire reason the altmer forbade the worship of Talos in the white-gold concordat, to weaken the 'human' gods power
@@joelbattyman79 Where was it ever stated tho? I have played every game and been deep into the lore but this is the first time ever that I have heard about worship giving power to aedra... Like at all.
@@Meshifuari read king Edward book XII in daggerfall, this subject is discussed but a quote from it says, "when a goddess loses worshippers, her inflow of mid-level magicka is decreased, so she in-turn produces less god level magicka"
A good chunk of my walkthroughs are with khajiits. Would be an interesting turn of events, having a khajiiti empress fomenting revolt in Elsweyr to rejoin the Empire.
I really Im
in love with they way you write and narrate your videos, it adds a whole new flavour to it. Great work!
Your point of the empire must win because elves bad is mute. Ulfric says he fully intends to fight the elves in the upcoming war so it dosent matter which side you choose.
Difference is that the Stormcloaks are vastly inferior to the Legion...
full transparency i was fully pro stormcloak entering this video and although i still ultimately am i must concede you present the imperial's case in a very palatable way, great stuff!
stormcloak suuuuuck
@@mrluthfians01 perfect, I've always wanted the authentic Ulfric Stormcloak succ experience!💦
/s lmao
@@mrluthfians01 suck the souls of imperials right out of tamriel
i view Ulfric as more of a threat then i do the Thalmor. I kill their patrols all the time. As a vampire, i see him asa threat to Castle Volkihar. There's nothing to stop him from attacking us if he wins the war.
@@MLPDethDealr32 hear me out tho thalmor agents are more of a challenge than stormcloak footsoldiers
Another video reminding me I chose the right side, and therefore stroking my ego?
Don't mind if I do.
My theory is that the Empire ending is canon. The dragonborn is going to end up recreating Talos's conquest and they're going to run the Altmeri Dominion's head into the dirt.
Love the video! This new channel has been great so far!
Please continue vivec’s lessons, keep up the amazing work man
They're coming don't you worry :)
I think I’d like to see another invasion from akavere. It certainly would turn the entire conflict on its head
I liked the Empire in Oblivion a lot yet by the events of Skyrim it is a shadow of a its former glory...Because the Aldemiri Domonion and Hammerfell were hyped and foreshadowed so much in Skyrim the Second Great War will probably be the focus in Elder Scrolls 6.
I think the Dragonborn will have "mysteriously disappeared" (too op), Skyrim will become independent like Hammerfell whom they're going to ally with and the Dominion will be forced to split its forces in multiple fronts against the fractured Empire with possibly a regained territory (most likely Valenwood) and a united front of Nords and Redguards! As for if the Empire will reunite afterwards well that is unclear but I think it'd be more interesting perhaps if all of the provinces became independent nations, that's also a possibility! 🤔 🧐
Its much worse than a shadow they also lost morrowind and black marsh
Imagine for the next Elder Scrolls game: After the death of the Last Dragonborn, he becomes part of a council of heroes from previous games, they find you (the player) to convince you to reunify the Empire in order to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.
Something like that
Ultimately the Empire is corrupt, the elves have total military intelligence through it. If all the human provinces became free, the thalmor could be expelled
The moment I saw mention of the Thalmor subtly supporting Ulfric, and considering him a "dormant' asset? I knew it was time to put him down.
"Skyrim belongs to the Nords
..."
-Lokir of Rorikstead, Dunmer and escaped prisoner.
The idea of your player character being the next Dragonborn Emperor is so cool. I always wished we could have been the High King of Skyrim at least during the end of the civil war, but if we have to wait for TES6 to hear that Dovahkiin is the Emperor, it’ll be well worth it
I don't care who wins or goes extinct, I just want the aldmeri dominion to lose.
This guy gets it
Me: oh cool, a new smaller Elder Scrolls channel. Let me support this unknown creator….oh.
Some thoughts on the civil war topic that I typed a while ago:
The Thalmor were the ones who proposed the concordat. Every day they grow stronger while their agents are given free reign of the empire to spy and sabotage- all the while, they prepare in secret. If peace was not ever in their favor, the Dominion would resume open war today. Maintaining anything resembling the status quo is completely out of the question if you don't want the Thalmor to get what they want long-term.
Secret worship of gods is not much of a thing in TES. Open worship and belief are heavily linked with a god's influence over mundus. This is a main reason why the dunmer tribunal were so ruthless in eradicating "heresy". The Thalmor need to diminish Lorkhan (basically the patron god of mankind) and his mantler Talos' power as much as possible so that they cannot interfere with their desire to literally destroy physical reality, which they consider a prison that should never have been created.
This "bide our time" thing the Empire is supposedly doing is 100% not a thing.
It is abundantly clear that the Thalmor don't want the Stormcloaks to actually win. They just figure it's a distraction for the Empire which will sow internal division. An independent Skyrim not beholden to the Concordat does not fit in their plans at all. While it would be debatable whether or not Ulfric should have started his rebellion (if one was ignorant of the larger implications of the ban on open Talos worship), his rebellion having already been started, and with TLD being able to decide its fate... the desirability of a Stormcloak victory over an Imperial one in the civil war questline is hardly up for debate.
What you writted is so much all the truth that I believe like with the elderscroll, it blind the foolish who try to read it, explaining why there is so many who seem to don't know any of it.
That and the Thalmor snake.
Not having nords from skyrim makes the imperial army much weaker. If skyrim was ruled by the stormcloaks the dominion would easily stomp them after beating the empire because they are so weak after dealing and losing to the stormcloaks. Imperial victory over the stormcloaks is the last thing the dominion wants.
@@kylerBD 1) why would the dominion invade cyrodiil after the conclusion of the civil war? IF they were planning to do that in the near future, they would've done it when it was most optimal: *during* the civil war. While it could be argued that they would be hesitant to provide a greater common enemy to the humans and cause them to cease their internal fighting to unite against the dominion, this would take some time. The initial momentum benefits of invading when so many humans are currently tied up far to the north would probably outweigh that concern.
2) If the dominion invades anywhere after the civil war, it probably wouldn't be cyrodiil. Remember: they already have de facto control over cyrodiil. They don't want to conquer land just to conquer it in the usual imperialist fashion. They ultimately want to conquer land to reduce talos worship as much as possible, in addition to anything else that will further their world-ending goals. If they can achieve this without open war, they will go that route every day of the week. Elves lose to humans in wars of attrition. They do not want to just throw mer bodies at men.
3. The majority of nords who cared enough to fight the empire (the ones you're worried about losing in the potential war vs the dominion) would be more than willing to head south to fight the dominion in cyrodiil, should they invade. This idea that people must be united under the same political banner in order to effectively join forces militarily... it's annoyingly pervasive, and it's wrong. A civil-war-victorious stormcloak army is also going to be more enthusiastic about taking the fight to the dominion than a defeated one which is forced to fight for the gutless empire they were just rebelling against.
@@kylerBD Imagine trying to invade Skyrim. It's bordered on all sides by near impassible mountains and a notoriously rough sea. The Dominion could never get a toehold in a region which utterly despises them.
@@ajsouza3720 The dominion would utterly and totally destroy skyrim in the event of a stormcloak victory. Without the support of the empire the nords of skyrim wouldnt even stand a chance. The empire was nearly completely destroyed by the dominion while it still had full suport from all the human nations of tamriel. Imagine the nords trying to stand against that they would be obliterated.
Hmmm ... If the Empire is planning to crush the Thalmor after the Skyrim war, then great.
They should just TELL the Stormcloaks of the plan and put a stop to the war right away before too much damage is done to each side.
Bethesda won’t make a canon ending for something like this, as they want to keep the choices of each player canon. So they will either have the next game take place during the events of Skyrim with the war still going on, or have the game so far in the future that the outcome does not matter.
Fortunately, Bethesda already created a handy solution for there problems. A Dragon Break.
@@Nerazmus Yup
I was 3 years old when TES 5 came out. Me & my dad loved to play it together. Now, when TES VI gets released, I will be moving out. Crazy to think about.
I've always sided with the Imperials. Never liked or trusted Ulfric - I think he's an idiot who is only weakening Skyrim and playing into the Thalmor's favour. The Imperial garrison in Skyrim currently is just that; a local garrison made up of mostly nords. The Stormcloaks killing Skyrim's Imperial garrison means Ulfric is only killing other nords. Not Imperials. Tullius even said it's only a matter of time before the peace treaty ends. It was only done so they could regroup and strengthen their army. By standing against the Imperials, Ulfric is essentially supporting the Thalmor.
Regardless, Skyrim already gave us the result of the war: The border to Cyrodill is blocked, and thus the main Imperial army is literally waiting on the other side until that blockage is cleared. Once cleared that army can enter Skyrim and the Stormcloaks wouldn't stand a chance.
The stormcloaks are a small rebel force made up of misfits and defectors. If the Dragonborn can tip the balance in the Stormcloaks favour, where-as they would otherwise be comepletely overrun by the much larger and better armed Imperial army - then it stands to reason the Dragonborn is so utterly overpowered he doesn't need an army, and this whole debate is pointless. If the DB is that powerful he could take on the Thalmor himself without an army.
There’s elf occupation forces throughout the Empire, it’s banned the worship of Talos and already lost to the thalmor with control of Hammerfell
@@virginiastatesman4672 The banning of Talos worship is only a part of the peace treaty, which; as I said, everyone knows won't last. That and most people are still worshipping Talos in secret anyway.
The Imperials managed to take back control of the Imperial City and with it the White-Gold Tower. The Elf "occupation", at least in Skyrim; is only that of a diplomatic envoy. It's not an army garrison.
The Thalmor got their butts kicks by the Redguards too. Hammerfell wasn't lost to the Thalmor, the Redguards remain in control and exited from the Empire by their own choice. But the Redguards aren't actively attacking and weakening the Imperials, they are just defending themselves against the Thalmor. I bet they'd team up with the Imperials to take on the Thalmor once the war starts again. Where-as Ulfric is actually trying to weaking the Imperial / Empire... which only favours the Thalmor in the end.
It's stated outright in the game, by the Thalmor, that Ulfric is unknowningly helping the Thalmor. And they are more than happy to just sit back and let him do their dirty work for them.
@@EndoScorpion No, the Thalmor want a weak Empire. That’s been achieved. The Nordic rebellion is a consequence of this. The Empire is allowing the elves to enforce their rule now, in Skyrim. How can you blame the Nords for rebellion against Justiciar rule?
@@virginiastatesman4672 The Stormcloaks aren't attacking the Thalmor / the Thalmor Embassy, they're just killing other nords that side with the Empire.
I'll repeat it one more time for emphasis: everyone knows the peace won't last and the war will continue!!! The peace is an opportunity for the Empire and its allies to regain their strength in order to hit the Thalmor harder next time. They made some TEMPORARY sacrifices in order to acheive that peace treaty. They're thinking long term and the bigger picture here. By attacking the Empire, the Stormcloaks are essentially siding with the Thalmor!!
All because why? They can't OPENLY worship Talos for a little while?? They do realise Talos was an Emperor of the Empire right? The Stormcloaks are fighting the Empire for the right to worship the Empire's gods, while forsaking their own animal gods!
Ulfric is killing nords, avoiding the Thalmor and actually helping them, slandering the Empire, attacking the Empire for not allowing him to openly worship Empire gods, killed his own High King and wants that position. I could even argue he's working directly for the Thalmor, but the one thing that is certain is that he's an idiot.
@@EndoScorpion The bigger picture is that the Empire is now wartorn; without a Dragonborn Emperor, and literally allowing elf occupation squads to assassinate and kill Talos worshippers. Yes, the Stormcloaks openly attack and eject the Thalmor. The Empire has already been defeated and stripped of half it’s provinces, it’s dead. You can cope and say ulfric is an idiot, but he’s fighting a thalmor occupation government backed by the Imperial legion, if he ejected it successfully the elves control of the Empire would be confined to Cyrodil and High Rock.
Great video, Drew. Keep em coming!
I think the Empire should have joined the Stormcloaks instead of fighting them. To fight the Altmeri Dominion together. Instead they weakened their peoples.
Well you can thank ulfric & his lieutenants for that
Ulfric was definitely the aggressor here. When you complete the civil war quest line with the Empire, General Tulius makes it clear that the treaty was only signed to buy the empire time so that they can rebuild their strength and their numbers. And as soon as the empire is strong enough, they will double cross the Thalmor and reclaim Tamriel.
What do you think the Great War was? They were fighting the Dominion but they were losing so they needed a break. Skyrim can't stand against the Dominion and the empire can't help for the meantime. The best play is to rebuild before reclaiming the empire.
@@alistairgrey5089 If the Dominion could have destroyed the Empire, they wouldn't have signed with the Concordat either. Titus Mede II just didn't have the stomach to continue war. For wartime, we need warlike leaders.
@@DarkAdonisVyers you don't think so? The Dominion can't conquer the empire, that was never their goal. They only wanted to occupy it and control it. This is where they succeeded. If Skyrim stood alone they would meet the same fate as every other province that stood alone.
I think the empire should divide in regional sectors, where the Skyrim/ Cyrodil empire could rule itself within the bounds of an imperial treaty. Stay united as an empire, rule themselves locally
I'll stay with the Stormcloacks. The Redguards stopped The AD invasion of Hammerfell, the nords can do the same. Don't forget the reason rome fell, it was bigger than they could manage.
And high level bureaucratic infighting like the Synod and College of Whispers.
I'm with you man. I obliterated the imperials with a kajiit named Death Kitty
The Redguards stopped the invasion only because they had the help of "retired" imperial soldiers. Skyrim won't have that luxury.
@@chainsaw8507 so i have to ask, that's the only way to win? An invasion of the land of skyrim by the AD is not something simple, the AD would be vulnerable to the other provinces.
@@chainsaw8507 if you really want to take campfire stories told in a cheap, discontinued, cash grab licensed card game called "Legends" as canon, the AD no longer has the Eye of Vaermina. The Dominion has three approaches against Skyrim, all are poor. From the south through Cyrodill which will cause another GW with Hammerfell at least aiding materialy if not directly, regardless of the aid in "Legends" from the discharged legions as a simple matter of pragmatism. Around the coast of Highrock skirting the Azurian ocean and through the sea of ghosts to lay siege to Solitude, assuming the Imperial, Redguard and Breton navies would allow such a huge aramada to sail by uncontested with the blatant intent of invasion. Even if the AD sent the Empire a letter saying "don't worry about the majority of navy mobilizing with what is cleary an invasion and occupation force, we only want to attack Skyrim not you. We have a deal, remember? :) ;) XD
Imo, it would be best if Skyrim went the way of Hammerfell, and seceded from the Empire without further bloodshed. The Emperor Titus Mede II cannot afford to send General Tullius any reinforcements out of fear of depleting his legions garrisoned at the southern border of Cyrodiil. At the same time, Ulfric’s uprising is putting tension on relations between the Empire and the Thalmor, as they have set up a presence here in Skyrim to root out any Talos worship. The best possible outcome for both factions is for The Last Dragonborn to become High King of Skyrim, and order a withdrawal of both Stormcloaks and Imperials under the issue of a permanent armistice.
I just hope Bethesda will give more effort on actually fleshing out the current Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor in-game than just forcing as much as possible to make PCs think of them as generic baddies. If someone invaded your home unprovoked, slaughtered your people into submission with a giant robot after they couldn't win otherwise, and then forced you to bend to their laws and worship their leader as your new god then you would probably hate them too.
I would definitely want to see a more nuanced Thalmor as well. However the way Bethesda has written them, I feel the only way we would see a more complex faction is to have a schism within the Thalmor. That could be something introduced in TESVI with side characters, but you'd only really see how divided the faction is if the setting was on Summerset itself.
Altmer culture led to the Thalmor. Their superiority complex exists without them. The Thalmor is what you get when Altmer beliefs become radicalized and militarized. Fuck ‘em. They’re going down the road of the Ayleids and they deserve the same fate. It was the old ehlnofey that started this shit by rejecting the wanderers. Individual Altmer might be nice and their cultural achievements are impressive and influential but their culture and beliefs are poison. They’re so invested in it they’d rather die than have to find a new way.
I like the idea of a Dragonbreak.
Everyone just turns around and says ‘no we won’ and it just starts the whole thing up again.
I supported the Stormcloaks solely because I had a bone to pick with the imperial swine
Might just be me, but you sound like Fudge Muppet, would be fun to see you guys collab.
I'm happy to see your channel grow fingers crossed it will grow in strength enough to be known by all!
OORRR Drangonborn says end all Nord suffering in their time being of ESV and have Stormcloaks win cuz he/she hates the Empire just as Ulfric does. Which would mean in the events of ESVI the Imperials would return to challenge High King Ulfric again because Tulius mentions eventually the Empire plans to get the strength to fight the Dominion, they would need Skyrim just as much. This is where that of the White Gold Concordia is lifted and Talos worship is no longer outlawed and High King Ulfric will likely be overpowered and voiced to join the fight with their mutual enemy.
Skyrim and the empire could still fight as allies against the dominion. Just like the US and the UK does. The US left the British empire but have faught along side the UK. Skyrim can do the same.
That took a full century, a change in the British dynasty and some hefty reconciliation on behalf of both parties... Wasn't just the mutual interests and culture, it was time and concentrated diplomatic effort. If TES:VI is only a decade or two after Skyrim, I doubt any such reconciliation will have happened by then.
@@Lusa_Iceheart if the Empire doesn't make an alliance they will fall without the Nords and the Redguards defending them of the Thalmor. But i won't be surprise that the Empire would be stupid enough to not make a quickly alliance after an indepent Skyrim. They already demonstrated their incompetence.
@@Lusa_Iceheart It didn't take a full century, the US and UK were formally allies in 1785. They weren't chummy until WW2 but we aren't looking for chummy, we are looking for coalition.
@@lelandwhitehead56 War of 1812
Even when i always joke about it everytime i realize tes 6 is still far from being with us i feel really old
I fear that the Third Empire will fall eventually... but right now All of Mundus needs to unite against these meanace called "Thalmor"...
If The Nerevarine returns with Akavir forces and invade the Summerset Isle, it will be the greatest "Wins or Lamest" plot twist i ever watched...
The Thalmor are not as strong as they would like us to believe. I mean, post-war Hammerfell was able to kick their arses.
@@Nerazmus Yep, and people ignore the Altmers' low birth rate, and the fact that they purge Bosmeri populations which can only lead to unreast. At the very least the Dominion is depriving themselves of bodies for the meat grinder, if not actively fomenting rebellion within their own borders.
@@greenfrogbad Indeed. Just the fact Thalmor were force into a peace deal says everything.
@@Nerazmus ''Kick their arses''? The Dominion spared Hammerfell.
It took Hammerfell five years to finally fight the Aldmeri to a standstill. That's not 'kicking their arses', that's struggling to grind them to a halt.
@@dutchpatriot17lso The Empire Helped Hammerfell For Some motive Stormcloack Supporters Ignore The Fact that The Imperial Legion on Hammerfell Apparently "Deserted" With Full Gear and Manpower,Hammerfell is Allied with the Empire they will probabily Rejoin when the War Kickstarts again.
I think it would be dope if you could just choose to play as the same dragon born again, or make a new character. It would be a great tool of choice and could be a far cry from the same imprisoned shmuck we keep waking up as. We could traverse skyrim and the the new elder scrolls 6 region (hammerfell) and either try and get them to rejoin the empire or Aid Ulfric stormcloak
Morrowind: An avatar of Talos says that the Empire is old and should be allowed to die. Change is a necessary part of history.
Oblivion: The Daedric Prince of Change is coming and the Empire will struggle to survive the damage he causes. The Septim dynasty ends and the Empire begins to collapse.
Skyrim: A prophesy says that the last dragonborn will arrive and the wheel of history will turn. Meanwhile, the first dragonborn since the Septims died out has appeared in Skyrim, and a rebellion rises to preserve Talos' presence and cut the Empire in half and leave it for dead, turning the wheel of Tamriel's history, should they succeed.
Who do you think I would choose?
Love your Lore videos. As a Redguard Friar of the Divines who was meeting with Ulfric and his entourage to educate them on how the Redguards defied the Empire and fought off the Aldmeri Dominion, and pass on Ulfric's request for Redguard assistance back to Hammerfell before being ambushed, captured, and sentenced to be beheaded by the Empire, I'm currently biased to the Stormcloaks. Enough so to bless Stormcloak patrols before they enter combat. There's also the matter of me minding my business as a travel to help the people of Skyrim and being attacked, currently twice, by Aldmeri Dominion patrols with assassination orders!
Seems to me that damned Imperial treaty has been quite dangerous to my well being! I'm a pious man and have no wish to rule. I just want to see good people prosper under the divines and do what I can to eliminate Deadra meddling in the affairs of mortals.
Followed you here from Fudgemuppet. I subscribed after watching one of your videos similar to this one. I truly enjoy your documentary style narration. You could cover any topic and make it fantastic. Your attention to detail is top notch as well. I would love to see you cover series like Bioshock, Knights of the Old Republic, Assassin's Creed, Fallout... Or other things like movies and shows- LOTR, Star Wars, The Matrix, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Doctor Who, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad... Or even just history. Like, anything that as ever happed that you find yourself interested in enough to want to talk about it.
tldr
Love your videos. Keep up the great work. Would love to see you cover additional games, movies, shows, and history.
What about something in between? A dragonborm that sides with neither but unifies both against the elves?
when i was younger i would always go stormcloaks because the imperials imprisoned me at the start of the game but over the years I almost always go with the imperials for this very reason.
I would have joined the Thalmor if it was an option.
The Thalmor Dossier you find in the main quest should be all the evidence one needs to support the Empire in the Skyrim Civil War. Even if he is an unwitting agent, Ulfric's rebellion is playing right into the hands of the Thalmor, and he's completely unaware of it. Tullius is aware, which is why he rushes to execute Ulfric and everyone else at Helgen before the Thalmor on the scene can spring him free - obviously Alduin interfered in that plan. Its actually worse if you don't know a lot of the background lore; to a casual player, the Aldmeri Dominion just seem like unstoppable expansionists. But in the expanded lore, they are literally trying to unmake existence as mortals experience it, so that they can return to the state of being they occupied before Lorkahn. They are an active, existential threat to life as everyone in Tamriel knows it, and the Stormcloaks are unwittingly feeding their side. The Empire is the only choice for the Civil War.
I completely agree 👍
You mean the dossier that specifically says that no matter what, the Stormcloaks must not win?
That is all one needs to join Ulfric.
@@Nerazmus Yes and the reason they don’t want a Stormcloak victory is so that the empire continues to maintain jurisdiction over Skyrim to snuff out Talos worship, a key step in their plan to unmake the world; however, they don’t want the Imperials to win a quick victory, either. They want to war to drag on so that the empire bleeds more in Skyrim, making them even weaker for the eventual backstab. A quick resolution of the civil war in Skyrim in favor of the empire maintains the unity of everyone who is on the shortlist for a Dominion smack down. Yes, it does mean in the short term that Talos worship will continue to be persecuted in Skyrim, but given the stakes of the conflict it’s stand together or fall alone, and Ulfric is setting Skyrim up to fall alone.
@@dragoon3266 Yes,m and the reason is they can't make Skyrim into a puppet as they did with the Empire.
And it's the exact opposite, fall together or stand alone, as was clearly shown to us with Hammerfel.
@@NerazmusYou people Like to Forget that Hammerfell "Stood Alone" the Same Way Ukraine stood alone against Russia,Hammerfell was a Proxy War The Empire was helping them in the shadows,Like it or not The Empire of Cyrodrill is Humanity Itself,if it breaks appart,Tamriel will be doomed.
It'll be like 2050 before VI comes out
I didn't spend 300 hours in Oblivion helping Sean Bean become a giant dragon to not support the Empire in Skyrim.
I didn't give my sweat and blood for Martin Septim do fight for some weakass Meads.
The Empire lost it's Divine Mandate with his sacrifice.
Here’s my theory. Every choice the player can make in Skyrim has one thing in common; it doesn’t matter. And that goes for the civil war quest as well. At the end of the game, who leads Skyrim doesn’t mater. The emperor is dead plunging the Empire into chaos. Everyone and their mother will be vying for the role of new emperor. “The leader of Skyrim” is going to make the same choices no matter who they are and will be referred to as just that, “the leader of Skyrim” I would argue the Parthanax choice has bigger consequences for the next game but can be left just as ambiguous in the dialogue of any Blades members in the next game.