@Tw1 Considering most of Septim's military success was based on the use of the Numidium (aka elven technology) I doubt that. And as in the case of Syrabane and Phynaster, we have examples of high elves who achieved enough in life to be deified like Septim.
I'm legit hoping it won't be the case. I was discussing earlier with a friend how "maybe Bethesda will have a catastrophe happen soon after the civil war, or the empire will fall apart due to infighting and subsequent invasions, which would mean a nord-ruled Skyrim regardless of whether the Stormcloak repulse the Imperials before said catastrophe or after".
@GreenTea I think what's worse is Bethesda literally had a second chance to improve the writing/story of Skyrim, with Skyrim: Special Edition. They could have drastically improved the stories of the various quests, actually fixed a lot more of the bugs, added more lines of dialogue, expanded existing factions and their questlines, improved upon the civil war by adding in some of the cut content, added in spears as a viable weapon option etc. It's honestly a disappointment to me and why I'll never buy any Creation Club content. You look at the work of modders like the Beyond Skyrim Team, Legacy of the Dragonborn team and the Skyblivion, Skywind and Enderal developers and wonder what the hell, Bethesda has been doing. =( TES VI is going to have to be spectacular to get me to buy it, especially after the seemingly never-ending trainwreck that was Fallout 76.
@@eyesack6845 I mean there 'was' one unrecorded Dragon Break that is now canon. The one that banished Alduin through time... Even though that ISN'T how Elder Scrolls work. Another story-related thing they could have fixed while re-releasing Skyrim on PS4/Xbox One/PC as Special Edition =/.
There's another point in Skyrim that often gets overlooked. Titus Mede signed the White Gold Concordant. He had his reasons, primarily because he had to end the Great War. But looking back at the actual assassination scene in the Black Hand quest line, I got the impression that he actually expected to be taken out and believes his removal from power will benefit the Empire. To all the Imperials and Nords who held him in disdain because of his apparent cowardly act in making peace, his death removes the stigma. They are no longer held to the actions of a dead Emperor. The Thalmor have to realize this as well. It is the Emperor's signature on that document that made the WGC legal. Remove the signator and you give the Empire a basis, legitimate or not, to renounce the peace. You give them leave to restore Talos worship and remove one of the primary causes of the Skyrim revolt. No more Legionaires dying in Skyrim, a serious lessening of the Nord hatred of the Empire...troops currently in Skyrim made available to fight the Thalmor, Nords a little less adverse to serving in the Legions or at least supplying the Empire. Titus ended the war and took the blame upon himself...his death won't guarantee a resurgence of Imperial power, but it removes a major barrier to such a resurgence. A fractured Empire cannot win against the Thalmor but an Empire that is no longer tearing itself apart may be able to triumph. That fact is one of the reasons the Thalmor wanted to keep the civil war in Skyrim going..they knew it was a bleeding ulcer for the Empire. Healing that wound with the death of the Emperor restores strength to the Empire.
That would make Titus Meade, comparable with Martin Septim himself, Martin Septim sacrificed himself to become an Avatar of Akatosh, to save the Empire, Titus Meade sacrifices himself to reunite the Empire and thus saving it, as well
Yeah, Skyrim really is meant to be part of the Empire. If it weren't for the banning of Thalos worship, Skyrim would be a peaceful land. Plus the Emperor was ready to give up Hammerfell in exchange for peace, so what does that mean for Skyrim? The Emperor could've easily given up Skyrim, this reinforces the idea that the other provinces are just pawns to the Empire's game. The White Gold Concordat is not really a sacrifice for the greater good to me, but more of a bad PR stunt for the Empire. The Emperor needs to die indeed and he knows it, but then what? Hate towards the Empire will still grow while Thalos worship is banned, and I don't see another Emporer solving these problems. I think Skyrim will eventually be independent, but not by the hands of Ulfric.
CommanderM117 isn’t morrowind in a crisis/ under invasion & the storm cloaks a poor mans militia? I don’t see them being a threat to the dominion or anyone for that matter
morrowind is a wasteland more so then usually is but redoran are rebuilding and we have taken some of are land back from the argonian but we are not being invaded we are worse of yes but a little help and my people could be a strong ally for the nords we also share a hatred for the thalmor and we don't like the empire it very likely that after the empire win or loss the second great war ether 1 will invade morrowind just to purge us for draedra worship i am helping those that fight both and gave my people a place to stay
thalmor/altmer are Aedra Worshipers we Worship Deadra it would not belong before after dealing with the humans they would turn on us i mean they hunt down heretic in summerset so it likely they would see us as bad same apply with empire only they do it for greed
Tullius is a badass. He took up untrained Legionnaires and brought about a turnaround for the Empire in the War. He forced a stalemate with untrained Legionnaires. He would have utterly destroyed the Stormcloaks in a few days with a proper legion. It's not just legion it's also in the General
After 6 months in enemy territory, he was able to ambush the enemy leader. That is a next level bad ass, and doing it with untrained youth nonetheless.
@@tntsummers926 what's better is that at that point the war as basically fuckin' over. Ulfric captured and about to he executed. Tullius hadn't even been in Skyrim for a full year...and did that with a bunch of farmers!
@Kristopher Shafer Does the Dark Brotherhood assassin destabilise the Empire? Or does the assassin actually guarantees the success of the Empire...? Titus died a Martyr's death, and it's been very much speculated that his death was in fact a premeditated suicide. Meaning it's all part of some grand plan.
@@alex_ho Yeah. I think there is a plan here to. Titus Mede was a really cool character, and I hope he had a plan, and we will see that deploy during The Elder Scrolls VI !
depends too, having a insanely powerfull character like the dragonborn go political like old tiber septim himself can easily define the fate of an empire
@@andryuu_2000 yes but they probably won't, they had their chance with the Nerevarine, who had a much better chance of becoming ruler, on the count of the fact that establishing themselves as a major political figure in Morrowind, is part of the Main Quest. Not to mention trying to realize a former player character as a NPC in the sequel would be a Nightmare coding and writing wise. No they're probably going to say that they "mysteriously disappeared" and Herma Mora's going to reference a pet Dragon, and if we go to another plane of Aetherius a character will reference a "guest of honor" being at Sovengard
@@TitusTheBard or at the very least will become the Princes agent in Oblivion. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be used for the Prince's petty disputes.
It would make poetic sense as well for the Ulfric to be defeated by another wielder of the Thuum. Just as it would make sense for a Stormcloak victory should the Dragonborn side with Ulfric, but I think the Imperial dragonborn makes for a better plot story.
It would be cool if they would let you do what Dragon Age does. Let you choose what happened in your Skyrim and the world would change slightly. Like the choices you make in DA don't make huge changes but the things you do offer subtle changes and are spoken through dialog. For instance, in DA:O there is a very important moment at the landsmeet where you determine the fate of Loghain Mac Tir. Depending on what happens here, it will affect who appears in DA:I. Hawke, the PC from DA:2 will have a Grey-Warden ally. One of three characters will assume this role (Alistar, Loghain or Stroud.). Regardless of who it is, the story will pan out the same. Witcher 3 also does something similar but much simpler. Near the beginning of the game there is a scene where you will be asked questions about the events of Witcher 2. You have multiple options to each question which allow you to choose what you did in the game. Let's say you destroy the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. In TES6 you might see the Night Mother at a sanctuary. Babette and/or Cicero could make an appearance and they can tell you about what happened at the Falkreath sanctuary. Cicero could say, when he arrived there he found nothing but corpses so he kept going. Babette could tell you the she found her brothers dead after returning from a contract. Being the only one left she decided to move on. Perhaps even the sanctuary could be a little different depending on the outcome of Skyrim. If the DB was destroyed maybe this sanctuary could seem a little run down as if they've been having some bad luck but now that the Night Mother has arrived it's time to turn things around. Or if the DB wasn't the sanctuary could look like it's doing quite well. There's plenty of members, coin scattered throughout the sanctuary and everyone follows tradition to the letter. Let's say you didn't get involved at all in Skyrim, perhaps the Night Mother shows up in the next Sanctuary and the members of this sanctuary talk down about the members of the Falkreath Sanctuary. Saying things like while they may use the DB name, they are not real children of Sithis and he will punish them all in the void. They don't need to be drastic changes just small things you might see or hear about.
That's assuming a pro-Stormcloak Dragonborn died or went to Apocrypha never to be seen again. But then again, Bethesda might just decide he took no sides at all (at best) or keep the story vague & obscure as they always have done, wich is most likely. In any case, Empire or Stormcloak victory, I believe the Dominion's patient schemes will win in the long run & will wreak havoc on Tamriel eventually, only to be stopped by the next protagonist in some fashion.
They will choose that he/she never chose a side, also in the tes lore we have dragon breaks, this makes it, so bethesda can ignore everything you do in the game, and even most things they wrote so far for the game.
I already assumed this but in much less detail, my thought process is that if the player goes imperial the stormcloaks are gone forever, If the player goes stormcloak the empire is not gone so the simplest resolution is the empire winning
@Guess I'll Die Hope not. I prefer for there to be less cop out continuity between the entries in the series especially since I don't want the empire to remain weak. In the words of Lorebeard Zaric Zhakaron: "Bethesda are sissies!"
Hard to swallow pills: your Elder Scrolls character is irrelevant outside of their game, once a hero has fulfilled their destiny they have no more purpose
Actually I think if we consider these notes, the Empire will ultimately win either way BUT I think Bethesda are hinting at Ulfric initially winning round 1... If the Dragonborn defeats Ulfric, the whole civil war is slightly anti-climactic... But if this reinforcement legion is the key deciding factor, it opens up the door for the Thalmor to play a more significant aggressive role in the future. If the Dragonborn squashes Ulfric's rebellion with Imperial Nordic farmers, the Empire & the Dominion will be more evenly matched, reducing the sense of urgency & threat of a 2nd Great War. I can see the books writing Ulfric as a serious confrontation that brought the Empire down a notch, rather than a bum who never got past Whiterun. This especially plays into the theory of the Emperor sanctioning his own assassination to mend the rift between Empire & Nord, an act he wouldn't have done if the Stormcloaks weren't more than a thorn in the side.
@@IduNaVi2023the dragonborn will not play any political role, except for the truce which for me is canon. Why? He's way too powerful to take parts into a civil war and eventually enter imperial politics or international politics. + THERE IS FUCKING DRAGONS EVERYWHERE Do you think the imperials and the stormcloaks would realistically kill each other while fire-spitting monsters fly around burning towns? The dragonborn whose job is to stop the dragons could have authority and influence a truce in the best interest of the entire region, even considering that he's thane in every hold canonically and basically friend with every Jarl on both sides. Then the civil war would start again, but the LDB will likely be in apocripha for eternity serving Hermaeus Mora, as the LDB is canonically enrolled in the college of winterhold, and his love for knowledge would drive him towards serving Mora
@@IduNaVi2023and oh yeah, the LDB slayed Alduin, the litteral World-eater. Dont you think he'd be revered as a God by all the people in Tamriel? Absolutely, Tiber Septim did much less to achieve Godhood. The LDB will be written off and hinted to be in apocrypha by like Mora saying "i got a pet dragon" or something like that. And probably some books saying "a dragonborn came in skyrim, they came together with alduin the world-eater, killed him, and then disappeared"
The use of untrained soilders is a risky but brilliant plan, if the empire wins the Civil War the thalmor will believe that the imperials could barely beat a bunch of rebels and when the time for war comes around the thalmor having underestimated the imperial army will send less and/or weaker soilders thus giving the empire the advantage
I agree with your theory, the imperial forces seem to be a vexillatio of one of the legions mixed with local troops to hold the line and screen the province so one of the empires legions can organize and deploy itself into the province after clearing pale pass and setting up logistical supply lines.
The natural mountains that border around Skyrim, and the harsh weather. Makes Skyrim a logistical hell for the Empire if they wanted to overthrow Ulfric. I think that if the Stormcloaks just held a defensive position and made friends with the Redguards. They have a chance to at least hold an independent state for a decade or two.
CommanderM117 Yeah, that's kind of a hilarious statement. The Imperials have been the backbone of the Imperial Legion for centuries, this is simply a canonical fact. They are the most 'patriotic' race of the Empire, which isn't a surprise considering there province is it's capital. The Legion and Nacy os open to all races, but the backbone of those forces has, since long before the Fall if the Septims, been the Imperials. The idea that the Nords, one if the most barbaric races in Tamriel who are generally undisploned, or Skyrim, one of the poorest, least developed and least resource rich provinces of Tamriel, is the backbone if the Empire is simply ludicrous... Thoigh they did make up useful soldiers in the Legion once approristly trained, they hadn't been the core of an Imperial Legion since the early days if Tiber Septim
Your forgetting the Imperial Navy is the biggest fleet in tes, mix that with proper battle mages and the storm cloaks are screwed seven ways to sunday.
@@saudade7842: Know this is late, but honestly, I think when it comes to the game specifically, crowning the player Emperor is pushing it in my opinion. I understand lore wise the Dragonborn could very well become emperor, but to keep the game skyrim themed, I think it would make sense to keep the game and the player in Skyrim as much as possible and leave everything that could happen outside of that to fate with the Bethesda Devs. If I were Bethesda, I would have done something like this: You can become high king regardless of the path you choose. Ulfric could get killed in the final battle for Solitude and you take his place in finishing the war and becoming the "new ulfric" in the process so to speak. Therefore you become the next High King/Queen. If you are Imperial, you could be mooted High King by the council, as Queen Elisef's not officially the High Queen and only a temporary stand in during the war. In this scenario, I think you should also be able to have to choose. Become high king, or leave the throne to the Queen (choosing the latter, you get thane and Proud spire manor by default) or an additional 3rd option, if you are not married, you could take her hand in marriage and rule together. This could also provide a useful use for the marriage system. Either way, depending on what you do, you could potentially make the Blue Palace in Solitude your home, and to fit the lore, could also provide a pathway for Bethesda to make the Dragonborn emperor in ES 6 if they so choosed. Have Elder Scrolls 6 be in the 5th era, and vaguely state in a book or something that the Dragonborn went on to start a new era (or a new empire depending on the scenario) after Skyrim by becoming emperor and his/her descendents are the new Dynasty. I know this might not be the greatest idea, but it's what I personally would have done if I could choose. I'm still fairly new to Bethesda games and the Elder Scrolls franchise, and although I am extremely hooked on the latter, (especially lore wise) I can't help but feel so many wasted opportunities were missed. Civil War being one of them. I know mods can fix this, but still, the base games should be more fulfilling in my opinion. Civil War was lackluster Gameplay wise, but the lore around it was fascinating. Same for the College of WinterHold. Fascinating lore, extremely lackluster in game.
@@tigervalley62 Yeah, I don't think becoming the emperor would work. I'm really not sure how they could make any governmental office, much less emperor, fun while keeping the gameplay the same. I don't think it would work with this style of rpg, but I can dream.
I’ve actually had a theory about this for a few years. My thoughts were that in the end it wouldn’t matter who won the war because the outcome would be the same. For starters, there is one thing that won’t change regardless of who wins the war, the Dragonborn will be a top general in the army that won. After the war a new high king would need to be crowned, following a stormcloak victory, that king would be Ulfric. Unfortunately for him, I believe even if he wins the war he will be killed. This would leave Skyrim without a king regardless of who won the war, which would allow the moot to choose a new king. So the natural choice would obviously be the hero who led the victorious army across the battlefield, managed to slay Alduin, and has won favor with essentially every jarl. This series of events would place the Dragonborn as the high king of Skyrim. And coincidentally, assassins have just killed the emperor leaving the empire in need of a new ruler. So now the elder council needs to elect an emperor, and coincidentally, there happens to be a king in Skyrim who is essentially Tiber septim reborn. He is a Dragonborn like all the septum’s were, he is a military commander who has never lost a battle, he is probably the most powerful warrior in Tamriel, and he already has the full support of the blades, which were the emperors traditional body guards. As a side note, if Skyrim did secede from the empire, making their king the new emperor would more than likely make them willing to reunite with the empire. Overall, this theory covers both endings of the civil war, the dark brotherhood, and the main quest line. In regards to the dark brotherhood, the quest line would unfold the same way regardless. Just like how they were wiped out in cyrodiil during oblivion. In the end players can believe whatever they want when the read about Titus Medes assassination. Either the Dragonborn did it, or he was an upstanding citizen and some random assassin killed the emperor. Either way, the result is the same. So regardless of what choices you made in Skyrim, you would end up with a United empire with the Dragonborn sitting on the throne. And the best part is, you can consider all of your Skyrim choices cannon, regardless of what those choices were. And as a bonus, those choices would make you the emperor, which would add a bit more weight to the decisions you made. Anyways, sorry if I rambled a bit, writing this in bed while I’m half asleep. And I’m down to discuss this, and if anyone sees any problems that prevent this theory from working, let me know. But as far as I can tell, it works for the entire game and would allow any choices the players made to be cannon.
Problem is that in canon, the protagonist only completes the main questlines of the main game and DLC, this is done to prevent the forcing of a story down on headcanons.
I love that when we talk on lore of the armise of both the Imperial, stormcloaks and highelves we think of vass amount of men and women fighting to the death in a battlefield but in the game its like 10 to 20 guys can easily take over a city. Thats just funny to me to think in the great war each battle would just be like 50 guys fighting one another to the death
This last great war shall be decided down at the old well! You better bring all 10 of your soldiers! It’s gonna be a street wide blood bath to end all scuffles!
I agree with this, the fact that the Stormcloaks are having a hard time taking Skyrim against an incredibly weak Empire, should tell you they wouldn’t win against the Empire at full strength, or the dominion for that matter.
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 you could probably call them an auxilia , the real heavy troopers from actual legion formations would probably sit around in solitude in their heavy armor
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 the imperials almost won the war on several ocassions the only thing stopping them from doing so is thalmor interferrence ( cause they want the war to keep going) and the heavy troopers are most likely few in number so they just defend their main political base which is solitude , i mean even the penitus oculatus is in dragonbridge basicaly outside of solitude
This is why I always thought that the game should have pictured traditionalist Nords (Stormcloaks) versus imperial Nords (Imperials) with the actual Empire not really caring because both sides are not leaving the Empire, as both sides still hate the Thalmor with a passion as well as want to be part of the Empire, but are fighting a civil war between two internal political factions in Skyrim with General Tullus simply being employed by the imperial Nords as a recently retired Imperial general looking for a payday at the end of his career. The fight could be over religion whether the old Nord Gods or the Imperial Cult should hold sway in Skyrim for instance with wealthier Nords tending towards support of the Imperial Cult and poor and middle class Nords tending towards the Old Ways. That way you still have a choice in outcome that matters, Bethesda can go either way in the lore as far as Skyrim's civil war, and still keep the Empire as a solid force against the Dominion for the next title without having to effectively force a decision one way or the other. Under that system the Empire could even have a recruiting officer in Stormcloak or Imperial territory recruiting for the Imperial Legion that the player could meet and interact with who'd even laugh at the local Legion troops calling them "Provincial farmers and book keepers not worthy of Legion steel!"
Totally agree. Or they could have made the Concordat force one of the Nords' own gods be banned, like Shor. If the Stormcloaks were fighting over Shor rather than Talos, their cause gains a lot more merit, and loses quite a bit of hypocrisy.
@@dutchpatriot17 What? That doesn't makes sense. Tiber Septim is a human. All humans trace their ancestry to the Nords. He was a Dragonborn, a gift given to the Nords first. He is the only Aedra to start life as a mortal, as a creature rather than a creator. To say he is just "an Empirial deity" is very silly.
@@bryanbridges2987 All humans trace their ancestry to the Atmorans, not to the Nords. Being Dragonborn has nothing to do with being a Nord. He is an Imperial Diety. The Nine Divines are worshipped by the Imperial Cult; a sub-section of the Imperial Pantheon. The Nords have their own Pantheon; Kyne, Shor, Tsun, Stuhn, Orkey, just to name a few. They are just not worshipped by the Nords of the Fourth Era, and the Stormcloaks are incredibly ironic for claiming to fight for Nord culture while dishonoring more of it than the Empire ever has.
What Talos said in Morrowind Poor Old Emperor: "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty." There won't be empire soon. Its clear that bethesda have plan to destroy empire and from 4th era we see how fast everything happen. Empire and Thalmor are only who walks with prisoners who wait horrible death and Player can help them meaning that Empire and Thalmor are in same enemy category. What war preparations? Do you think that Thalmor don't know about everything in Cyrodiil? They have their spies everywhere. Empire is broke, legions are weak and Pentus Oculatus is just pathetic to have any sirious role. Thalmor will attack again and Thalmor will won. Thalmor will destroy empire but with some casualties and coalition of allied countries of North Tamriel will be only Humans side thatwill fight for humans. Thalmor have in their pocket imperial nobles and they abduct nords from their homes just because of their religion. Empire and Thalmor are partners in crime. Empire is servant state of Thalmor Empire keeps imperial Jarls happy with gold and same does Thalmor. Battleborns help Thalmor to capture Nords and there is imperial flag in NORTHWATCH kEEP WHERE INNOCENT PEOPLES ARE TORTURED. Only Stormcloaks fight for right cause which is freedom. Imperial and Thalmor mind cannot understand that but freedom is most important thing in the world. Imperial and Thalmor are both partners in crime against Nords and they are argessors. Dragonborn is depicted as Nord, cannot denied Talos and his reneval of Blades are against laws of empire's master the Thalmor.? Nords are known as Bane of Elves. The Nords once conquered most of Tamriel. Destroyed Snow Elves, they broke the power of the Ayleids, nearly drove the High Elves out of High Rock, and conquered much of Resdayn, the precursor to Morrowind.
@@michaelstark8720 When are the Nords referred to as the Bane of the elves? They were pretty badly defeated by the Dark elves/Chimer and Deep elves which is largely why they hold so little territory in Tamriel beyond the first era. Even the Bosmer managed to cripple Skyrim by attacking and killing its king during a Wild Hunt.
@@michaelstark8720 the Thalmor don't control the empire. They're waiting, doing as the Thalmor say, until they're strong enough. Strong enough to destroy the Thalmor, to FREE mainland Tamriel. Seeing as Ulfric doesn't know he is being used. That killing the previous jarl, who was sympathetic to him. With the shout, would've caused a civil war. He's not smart, if he was, he would've helped the empire in this cold war. Or used the previous jarl's sympathies, to not have a civil war. Or at the very least, not kill the previous jarl, with a shout. Because killing the jarl, in a duel deciding who's jarl, does not make you jarl. A moot, decides who is jarl, and killing your previous jarl, doesn't help your image.
Wow, that is awesome! I am extremely impressed by this attention to detail in the lore in preparation for going forward with the series on Bethesda's part. Well done on the reporting, and well done GM Jauffre! Thank you
Theory time *tes vi comes out *player gets told that the empire kept losing and regaining skyrim, and the same with the stormcloaks, thus causing both tullius and ulfric to die *it doesnt say who got control first though, that way anyone can think that their playthrough is canon *its optional who has skyrim by the time tes vi is released, but i hope the stormcloaks because i really like them *everyones happy
The note means nothing. A Legion forms, who's to say the second legion will win if they invade? And if the Dragonborn is on the Stormloak's side they will have a soldier that could single handedly tke the Imperial Forts during the civil war. Also. the note asks for recruits or it will all be for nothing. That implies Ulfric has recruits to send but maybe isn't focusing as much of them on Falkreath as he needs to.
Here is the problem with your theory. Lets say that this is true that an Imperial legion is preparing to retake Skyrim. The Nords are not your herp derp warriors. They along with the Redguards and the Orcs are considered the finest warriors in the world. Sure the Legion won against the Aldmeri Dominion after they destroyed their Daedric artifact, but this is a far cry from fighting a United Skyrim full of some of the greatest warriors alive. The Legion aren't the only ones who know how to use formations the Nords have been using Shield Walls since they landed in Skyrim from Atmora. Secondly it was a NORD LEGION that made the difference in the battle for the Red Ring. Thirdly Ulfric and Galmar are Legion veterans and know how the Legion works. With a united Skyrim behind them and all of it's resources at their disposal they will be able to make better troops and better equip them before fighting the Empire. Finally the Nords have an advantage of terrain. They just need to hold the pass. The Legion has to break through it. Not an easy thing when held by a determined army. (Examples being Thermopylae.) So while this is an interesting theory I still don't think that the Empire takes control of Skyrim. Let's also look at it from a gameplay perspective. What would add more intruige and choices to the game? The Stormcloaks winning and trying to gain more alliances, or the Empire? The Stormcloaks winning will add more options for story in my opinion. But then again Bethesda is not the greatest at giving us deep options.
The Imperials have some of the best armies Tamriel has ever seen. The Nords did not make a difference during the Battle of the Red Ring, the Nords only ensured the Aldmeri that attempted to escape were killed. The Imperials, Bretons, and Redguards were the ones who did most of the fighting.
The second army, largely of Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal. The main army was commanded by the Emperor himself, and would undertake the main assault of the Imperial City from the north. On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus's legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded. ((So the Nords were facing assaults from two different directions. And if they had not held the entire plan would have failed.)) An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions. ((Again the Nords making the difference here.)) This is all from the ingame lore book A Concise account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion, by Legate Justianus Quintius.
Right... You know what else would have resulted in failure? If the Imperial, Breton and Redguard Legions were too weak to defeat *Naarifin's main army which was located in the capital.* The Nords fought off piecemeal attacks, that's not such a grand feat. The Aldmeri attempted to break out after the battle was already over; these were not battle-hardened elves looking for a fight, but morale-deprived elves looking for a way to safety.
So first off, we do not know when the attempt to break out of the Imperial city started. Because anyone with half a fucking brain would go. Hu, we need to get out of here before we are surrounded on all sides. So they tried to break through and it was the Nordic legion that stopped it. Even then, it is besides the point as the most dangerous man alive is the one who has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Even if this was the end of the battle and the Aldmeri forces were weakened, they now know it is break through or die. This will make them fight harder then ever before. "but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad." Now from that line it sounds like it was intense fighting. (The second line contradicts this, so we can't be one hundred percent sure of how hard the fighting was.)
Historical books are written in terms of chronology in mind. The Aldmeri attempt to break out of the city occured *after* the main event had come to pass. ''Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government.'' Only after this part do they mention the attempted break out, which makes sense, because their leader was dead and their main army would be largely destroyed. Desperate soldiers fight worse after an exhausting battle than confident soldiers in the heat of it.
Can you make a video on which SkyRim quests are Canon and what order to play the Canon quests and I mean all of them every single one including the Creator Club ones
This is assuming that the Stormcloaks let the Legion clear the avalanche, and I mean, clear it enough to send a full army. Having a narrow path through the mountains is about as dangerous as having no path. Having a large force walk through narrow passes is suicidal.
Well, the Aldmeri want to bring about the end of the world by destroying the anchor towers in each region. ESVI will probably center around your character preventing this from happening.
The Thalmor will invade Hammerfel and High Rock and push into Skyrim. Mankind united pushes them back into Hammerfel where it becomes a main theme of ES6. ES6 will just mention that all the major players in the Civil War were killed. Bur the actual outcome as it occurred in your playthrough is not relevant and won't be mentioned.
Both endings would likely be similar to each other. If the Stormcloaks win, Skyrim and the Empire are still major trading partners, not unlike the American colonies and the British Empire after the American Revolution. Did the successful War of Independence result in the permanent severing of all ties between America and Britain? No, it didn't. Instead, they became major allies. Ulfric would probably tone down or be persuaded by advisers to tone down his anti Imperial rhetoric to restore ties. Meanwhile, the Empire would likely see to establish good relations with the newly independent Skyrim, and to that end might be inspired to take a stronger stance against the Thalmor. If the Imperials win the Civil War, High Queen Elisif will likely try to appease Ulfric's followers by being conspicuously bad at cracking down on Talos worship. She might even tell the Thalmor that with Ulfric dead, they have no further business in Skyrim and can see themselves out at the southern border. Either way, the Thalmor don't want the Civil War to end. They want humans to kill humans en masse, and will send assassins after the Dragonborn regardless of which side you lead to victory. If you complete the Civil War questline, the Thalmor lose no matter what.
That is true, but America and France very nearly went to war during the Adams presidency despite French aid being the only reason America existed as a country. Perhaps a better choice of words would have been trading partners, which would apply to Skyrim and the Empire as well. In fact, trade is part of why the Federalists were so keen on maintaining close ties with Britain, and they were the dominant political party until they dropped the ball and tried to use war with France as an excuse to turn the Constitution into toilet paper.
If you think about it the Empire was never the real enemy of Skyrim. The Imperials and the Nords were always great allies until the Aldmeri Dominion came along. The Thalmor where just as much a threat to the Empire as they where to Skyrim.
Kind of obvious that the Imperials win. We play as somebody from the Empire throughout the series (minus Redguard I think) and to make the Stormcloaks the winning side is to put Skyrim An Elder Scrolls Legend instead of a main storyline game. We also have the Imperial Army that has actually been massed and ready to go invade Skyrim after the winter. Even if Ulfric taking Solitude is canonical, the Empire still comes in and puts the head of every Stormcloak on pike. The only exception being the Dragonborn because he/she would be known by everyone as a hero.
Here's an idea, why can't the Stormcloaks just trigger another avalanche? It snows almost all the time near Pale Pass, just keep triggering avalanches to stop the Imperials from coming simple. The only other place the Imperials can enter Skyrim is through Markarth, which is the most heavily entrenched city in Skyrim. The whole reach is full of canyons and trenches. Not a smart move to try to invade that way.
+The Forgotten Hero It is TES physics, and TES weather, so they don't have to work like real life. In TES, you can get a frost mage to conjure up a blizzard storm and cause an avalanche like that. IRL you cannot do that. You can also just catapult something up there to trigger an avalanche, or shoot a lot of arrows up there, or manually go up there, and move some boulders, or shovel some snow out of the way, to make it unstable to cause an avalanche. Or just create an echo sound. Yell, or scream, and it will echo, and the echo can cause an avalanche.
The DRAGONBORN, knowing Ulfric has been unknowingly manipulated by the Thalmor, convinces Ulfric to stand down. Elisif becomes high queen, The DRAGONBORN becomes the emperor, unifies Skyrim with the empire again. Then utterly decimates the Thalmor. As it should be, mean while things are heating up between the Bretons and the Orcs with the Redguards caught in the middle, so to speak. Intro TES6
I always pictured Ulfric more as the type to start losing his shit when the Moot goes "Yeah Ulfric you won the war and all but your policies on racial segregation are really starting to cause problems for everyone so we don't want you to be High King" and then the Dragonborn has to put him down as he tries to hold on to power
When I finished Skyrim I let Parth leave with the dragons, and the empire won the civil war because I felt the dominion was the real enemy. I'd love to see canon lore where the dragonborn escapes the clutches of mora, returns to skyrim, and uses a new learned shout to recall the dragons who in my opinion fell back to regroup, and together with the Empire, the dragons, and the remnants of the rebels, take the fight to Summerset Isle and reinstate the worship of Talos.
I always thought fighting for the empire was more honorable and fun too, maybe because it was intricate and its intricacy was a sign of it being the lore choice
Well another bit we have to acknowledge is this: Does the Dragonborn canonically join ANYONE in the Civil War, or is The Peace Conference the Canon conclusion? If the answer to the first part is Yes, then you must include the Last Dragonborn in the equation. Also, I’m working under the assumption that the Dragonborn is the guy you see in The Trailer and Box art. So bare with me there. If the Dragonborn joins the Stormcloaks, the Empire, and later the Dominion would be fucked. Because the Last Dragonborn in lore wields so much power and can bend Dragons to their will, whoever they join will have a huge advantage. The Dragonborn in game is given a motive to hate the Empire, as they tried to have them executed for “just crossing the border”. If the Dragonborn were to be The Box Art Nord for example, a Proud Nord like that would probably take the opportunity to oppose the Empire. If the Dragonborn joined The Empire, as unlikely as that would be for a Nord who just escaped execution at their hands, but whatever; ahem, The Dragonborn could not only help in re-establishing full Imperial Power by helping reunite succeeded provinces, but perhaps The Dragonborn themself could become Emperor, due to the Cultural and Historical significance. Yes there currently aren’t Dragonfires that need lighting but hey, I can think of a few provinces that wouldn’t mind a new Dragonborn Emperor. Ultimately it isn’t a question of whether or not The Civil War is won, the question is does the Dragonborn actually have a stake in it, when their main quest is to destroy Alduin, and later Miraak. Because, if the Dragonborn joins either side and reaches full power, The In lore Dragonborn will boost that factions power immensely. But if the Dragonborn joins neither side, it’ll likely drag on in a Season Unending. Because realistically the Dragonborn is the scale tipper that allows the civil war to run full steam ahead in one direction against the Thalmor’s wishes to keep it ongoing. I bring this up, because we can’t just leave the Dragonborn out of the equation; they are essential to the story. But consequently, we might end up with a Dragonbreak as a result of that. So, I ask you; (based on the idea that The Dragonborn is The Box Art Nord): - Does the Dragonborn, with their pride wounded and Nordic vengeance in their heart, Join Ulfric’s Rebellion and tear the Empire away from Skyrim, bolstering Ulfric’s army and providing bent Dragons to assist in Skyrim’s warfront against the Dominion? - Does the Dragonborn believe the Empire is vital against the Dominion(I have reason to believe the Dragonborn crossed over from Cyrodill but that’s besides the point); and will they in turn bolster Imperial Power, put down The Rebellion, and bolster the Imperial Army with their newfound Dragon allies? - Or is the Civil War entirely of no concern to them? Is the threat of Alduin so great that Skyrim as a Province is inconsequential to The Dragonborn?(Remember, the Dragonborn is a foreigner to Skyrim.) Will the Civil War drag on in an unending red season?
Over all good video, was just a couple things I wanted to point out, neither the imperial forces in Skyrim nor the stormcloaks are made up of “just farmers” they are majority both made up of the former nord legion, the same nord legion that saved all of cyrodil in the first Great War, furthermore the letter isn’t supposed to be taken as fact, it’s supposed to show that the stormcloaks are paranoid of further reinforcements. I don’t remember tullius ever saying the emperor saw the rebellion as anything close to trival, again it was the Nord legions that kept him his throne, rather it’s impossible for the empire to send more men to Skyrim due to the thalmor. Yes the empire has more men than the stormcloaks but in the event of ulfric getting rid of tullius the empire won’t be able to invade, Skyrim is virtually impregnable from the south due to the pale pass, think the movie 300 doesn’t matter how many men the empire sends when you have a choke point like that. The Nords are also one of the two greatest warrior races in the setting (the other being redguards, look how it went for the thalmor when they tried to invade hammerfell). The emperor sent one of if not his best general to Skyrim to deal with the situation simply put he’s not taking it lightly if he could send more troops he would.
Calm down, Stormcloaks. After the Second Great War with the Aldmeri Dominion is won, the White-Gold concordate will be void, and you can have your precious god Talos back.
Some thoughts on the civil war topic that I typed a while ago: The Thalmor were the ones who proposed the concordat. Every day they grow stronger while their agents are given free reign of the empire to spy and sabotage- all the while, they prepare in secret. If peace was not ever in their favor, the Dominion would resume open war today. Maintaining anything resembling the status quo is completely out of the question if you don't want the Thalmor to get what they want long-term. Secret worship of gods is not much of a thing in TES. Open worship and belief are heavily linked with a god's influence over mundus. This is a main reason why the dunmer tribunal were so ruthless in eradicating "heresy". The Thalmor need to diminish Lorkhan (basically the patron god of mankind) and his mantler Talos' power as much as possible so that they cannot interfere with their desire to literally destroy physical reality, which they consider a prison that should never have been created. This "bide our time" thing the Empire is supposedly doing is 100% not a thing. It is abundantly clear that the Thalmor don't want the Stormcloaks to actually win. They just figure it's a distraction for the Empire which will sow internal division. An independent Skyrim not beholden to the Concordat does not fit in their plans at all. While it would be debatable whether or not Ulfric should have started his rebellion (if one was ignorant of the larger implications of the ban on open Talos worship), his rebellion having already been started, and with TLD being able to decide its fate... the desirability of a Stormcloak victory over an Imperial one in the civil war questline is hardly up for debate.
I just want to say something about this theory, Beside the fact that I am very leaned towards the stromcloaks as my prefered side. Something I noticed throughout both sides of the civil war was that the stormcloak missions always appeared more like that is what would happen or that is what would be cannon. For example, the conversation you hear between Ulfric and Galmar vs the one you hear between Rikke and Tulius, Balgruuf giving a speech about the empire vs fighting balgruuf and his court and hearing his argument whith vignar and how the empire is falling of the right track. And ulfric saying the dragonborn should kill him for a better song vs Tullius talking to ulfric about how this war is what the thalmor wanted and hiw neither side is really good, but the stormcloaks are "right" one side apears way more like it is what would actually happen in order to make the lore better. I also want to point out about the theory you gave in this video is that the empire knows that the war is helping the thalmor intrests so wouldnt they rather conserve their resources for the elves and end the war in skyrim rather then continue. The garrison can stop the stormcloaks from trying to mess with them while their setting up their forces to prepare for the next great war. And Ulfric would dedicate time to rebuild skyrim so that they can fight the elves in a second great war while if the empire took over skyrim they wouldnt help return it to its fromer glory, they would focus on trying to plan for there attack on the elves and how they can defend Cyrodil, not skyrim espicially since skyrim is to the north, which is not where the elves would come from. If the empire controlled skyim, the thalmor bases there could attack from skyrim, but if the nords had it, the empire wouldnt have to worry about sinve it is bieng defended. And we know that the nords could deafeat the elves because in the "Missing in Action" quest you can fight of all of northwacth keep with only four nord warriors so that proves they can defend. All in all, it would be mor strategic for the empire to let the stormcloaks take over because the stormcloaks would focus on fixing skyrim while the empire could focus on preparing for another. This is why I believe a stormcloak victory is both cannon and likely. It also the best move for the empire. And it is likely that the stormcloaks would help the empire if a second great war happend. Skyrim will likely be like a bigged version of orsinium, but it is nords instead. PS. Stormcloaks for life.
Tbat thing with missing in action is dumb, you litterally a dragon soul man, YOU can take that fort alone if you wanted, 5 regular nord can't, maybe 5 companions but even that i think couldn't happen.
Well, that's assuming that Ulfric would allow that to happen. He wanted to invade the Thalmor, which would cause a war. He isn't the smartest, or he's just very power hungry. He killed Torryg, who was a sympathizer for him. He didn't kill Torryg honourably, which caused a civil war. He did this, because he didn't understand the cold war. To say he was not very bright, would be a understatement.
Personally I think that they are MORE likely to say the Dragonborn sided with the Stormcloaks. Purely because then they have a new excuse for a Great War.
They already have an excuse the empire hates the treaty and the thalmor empire was ready for round 2 up until the thalmor sponsored stormcloak civil war began also LBD prob won't join any side
If the Empire wins, in TESVI we'll see the only part of Tamriel still officially resisting the Thalmor (that is if they don't do a big time gap). If the Stormcloaks win, as a good friend of mine said to me when we were debating over this, since Ulfric is very likely still a Thalmor spy, his rebellion served in creating chaos in a war-preparing Empire, and thus the Thalmor grow stronger. If the time gap is there but not too big, we can hope to see an Empire ready to get some revenge at the Thalmor, this movement being created from within Highrock and Hammerfell, with the Hunding as its spear. If we have a huge time lapse, i'd find it great if we have a world rules by the thalmor, everyone was defeated, and now that the redguard can't evolve or advance further, Hunding, and bam a new rebellion, and the kingdoms of man rise to get even with the pointed-ears
I mean in the last quest when you go to Sovngarde you see Ulfric even if you side with the storm cloaks. I thought this was common knowledge that Bethesda had the empire winning the civil war.
Honestly, there should’ve been an ending to the war where you show Ulfric the dossier on him from the Thalmor. If Ulfric saw that, I imagine he and Tullius would work together to figure out how to solve this.
2 points, 1 Skyrim has a powerful army of veterans from the war who played a significant role at the end, game limitations mean you have to upscale both the cities and armies maybe tenfold to get a realistic impression of what the actual Skyrim would be like, 2 Skyrim would be difficult to invade through the pass if Ulfric is victorious in the war, and a new legion raised out of Cyrodil would likely be as green as the northerners started out, you don't mak e new armies out of thin air, you raise them from the pipulace as fresh troops, ie. that force isn 't close to the best of the legions, -the letters are entirely inconclusive. Though they do lebd weight to theories of Imperial victory.
Not really sure how the note really states that the empire is for sure to win for a few reasons. 1. They still need to defend their own land so for the same reasons as before in the civil war, they won't send a huge army to fight the stormcloaks, (especially since they would be in control of all of Skyrim at this point and are continuing to grow stronger) because they are vulnerable to the Thalmor if they leave. 2. a new imperial force appearing in one direction to the south not only means that they can be taken out as long as reinforcements are sent for the Stormcloaks, but that also doesn't mean that they are their best troops being assembled. It could mean many things like a defense for the border, or they simply send only a small army to try and take over which can be taken down easily. 3. Since we never actually see the Empire at its fully potential in Skyrim, it could just be an assumption and bias from people that the Empire is stronger than they actually are. For all we know the Empire in the south could still be really weak and not much of a step up from Skyrim especially since most of the other provinces are independent from the Empire in some way. I think High Rock is the only other province that might be under imperial control besides potentially Skyrim but even then I'm not 100% sure about that. as well as other people saying that the empire is now just a little bit of how powerful it used to be. Also I heard that someone from Bethesda (I think it was Pete Hynes) said that we will not actually know who wins at least not in ES6. Just a rumor I heard about but still something to consider.
I honeslty think that they will just say that the side they pick won after the events of TES V, and either not mention the respective leaders deaths or simply say both of them died to avoid conflicts with certain playthroughs
Imperial knowledge I know this post is late but I had to say this. When the game begins the dragon born just crossed pall pass. And ulfric and the storm cloaks captured there. What if the avalanches weren't natural. We know the dragon born just happened to be there ?? As well as ulfric. So just as game starts there's avalanches that has destroyed the pass ?? Perhaps ulfric destroyed the pass with thuum
He mentioned that the passes are not destroyed, they are simply blocked with snow and have not yet been cleared. However after the Civil War quest line ends the note in fort neugrad will read differently and say that it is unblocked and a fresh legion is coming up from the south. No matter what we pick there is a legion coming. Bethesda may have cleverly put in something that has decided the Civil War no matter what we pick. I do not think it was the thuum, I think it was just weather.
You should remember that this farmer army now has the experience of multiple sieges and battles. Even if it is just against another farmer army, these troops are enthused from a victory and generals confident if bethesda chooses the storm cloak side. High morale and a great defensive position, you forget it's the storm cloaks who would be guarding pale pass as it's the imperials who need to get through, I think there's still some debate on the outcome of this. I will give this theory a lot of credit if it turns out true though.
I thought the season unending would be cannon, resulting in Skyrim splitting into two nations after the war, with the stormcloak holds remaining independent and the imperial holds remaining in the empire
the stormcloaks will still have time to prepare for this legion to attack so they do have some chance and since they would have all of skyrim they would be more powerful against the empire also this note will appear if the dragonborn is on the stormcloaks side and the dragonborn can command armies of dragons so that give the stormcloaks an even better chance of winning
They should have the Stormcloaks and Imperials create a truce until the Thalmor are defeated, both sides would be happy since Talos worship would likely be permitted once more and the Thalmor are no longer a massive threat. I'd think it would be a way better ending than either of the sides winning the war
Only possible scenario where Ulfric keeps the throne for long is if the Dominion decides to attack the legion before the empire sends his legion to the north, though that's highly unlikely, even an idiot general would wait for the legion to reach it, or they'd have to deal with all the legions plus one more
I think The Nords should have Skyrim bc they need their own Kingdom and I like The Stormcloaks bc they fight for their Kingdom from being ruled by a Human Empire that bends the knee to The Aldimeri Dominion
Nah, it's going to be the Stormcloaks and I would confidently bet money on it. Why? Arena ended with Jagar Tharn ruling as an incompetent imposter for years and he weakened the legions. Daggerfall ended with the Empire losing the Numidium. Morrowind they lost their Hlaalu toadies and set up losing the province as a whole. Oblivion, Cyrodiil was devastated and they lost the last Septim heir. And in the time jump, they lost every province except Skyrim. Every game ends with the world overall being saved but the Empire slides closer to the cliff edge. The Empire has been declining for a long, long time and I don't see Skyrim's aftermath suddenly bucking the trend. It would be narratively like a Mad Max film where the good guys win and Max doesn't end up battered and worse off then he was at the start of the movie.
Just saying a Legion being sent to Skyrim will mean the Empire will win is not realistic at all, the Legion, whilst being better equipped than current Imperial forces in Skyrim still wouldn't likely be the best equipped as the Empire would want to save most of their forces for the Aldmeri Dominion, also the only way to cross into Skyrim from Cyrodill by land is through Falkreath, the heavily forested area of Skyrim through a small mountain pass (Teutoburg anyone?). In addition to this, Skyrim has extremely rough terrain severely limiting the combat effectiveness of any conventional army, the Civil War is way more complex than "oh one legion will solve everything"
The Stormcloaks struggle against the worst the Empire has to toss their way. If by some miracle they 'win', proper Cyrodiilic Legionnaires would cut through them with ease.
He says "poor emperor don't no how long he's gonna last getting a bit too old, so is the entire empire for that matter I think its time to something new" that's not the exact quote but that's everything I remember also the quote seems like forshadowing to me
@@Max-wc6zy Wulf states specifically how the rulership of the Empire needs a change, and points out how he only considers the Empire has gotten old. He never says he wishes to see it gone. The change of rulership has happened; the Medes now rule the Empire.
Mr I. Knowledge, Sir! Thank you for this video, I can't believe I didn't see it earlier. It sounds entirely credible and answers pretty much all of my questions about how Bethesda would insert the Skyrim civil war of ES5 into the historical background of ES6. Kudos!
Lul I read this changed note all those years ago and didn't think it mattered :be As to imperial force being so strong and all that jazz the victory was actually one of those rare cases of putting everything on one card which led Dominion's army which wasn't prepared for such a move to rout, not some turbo superior strategy or fighting capability
I think I only played loyal to the Empire once. Played for the Stormcloaks every other play through. I can't bring myself to go with the side that was going to execute you without without being charged with a crime or a trial.
It occurred to me this week that is you look at that situation, and assume that in canon the PC is the Nord guy in the iron helmet in all the promotional materials, it makes a bit of sense that the Imperials would just assume you were with the Stormcloaks. In the context of an insurrection, summarily executing people caught in the company of the insurgents is a fairly standard operating procedure. Doubly so if you're caught out of uniform, because then they'd assume you're a spy, and all bets are off. This breaks down if your PC is Dunmer....
It took you 6-7 years to figure out it was farmer vs farmer armies...? The hell were you doing in Skyrim then? You see farmers blabbing on about joining X all the time.
What did we expect? Choices that matter? This isnt Dragon Age In any case, Im happy the Empire launches a big counterattack. It doesnt only happen if you side with the Stormcloaks either, Im pretty sure if you are Imperial but still give Falkreath to the Stormcloaks in Season Unending they will occupy the fort and the new note will be there
Wouldn’t it be wild if Bethesda just went ahead and split Skyrim for TES6? Like neither side could come to an agreement and the stormcloaks were able to hold down their side of Skyrim and they end up just succeeding from both the empire and the other half of Skyrim. I don’t know if it would be something Bethesda actually would do, but it would be really interesting. A province ripped in two, the Nordic people divided and scattered
I may be a minority in that I wished for a Stormcloak victory. The Empire is on the decline and one day will fall. I realize that Stormcloaks have a bit of a racist tendency, but it is the tendency that makes them more relatable to me. Their people wish to be free of the bloating corpse of an Empire that hasn't realized it's dead yet. Also, being dragonborn, and becoming the strongest voice amongst the dov, you would have a fair bit of influence on how the dov behave. Coordinated Dragon attacks anyone? Though I do realize the Empire would likely be better, their casual dismissal and willingness to kill those who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time is too much for me.
Two drunkards in Windhelm who aren't even part of the army doesn't make the Stormcloaks racist. As far as I can see, Ulfric is the only Jarl that has taken in that many refugees from Morrowind into his hold. Sure, living conditions aren't the best, but he's kind of busy fighting a rebellion at the moment. The slogan "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" doesn't imply that only Nords should be allowed in the land. It simply means that the province is theirs and they should be the ones to rule it, rather than the Empire under Thalmor influence. You could probably argue that derogatory expression about elves is racist. But I don't think that has to do with race, but rather deep seated historical tensions, both recent and ancient. Nords have been at odds with elves ever since The Night of Tears back in Ysgramor's time. They don't hate elves because they're elves. And they don't hate all elves. They hate their enemies, which happens to be elves most of the time.
Jonas, the conditions didn't change even if Ulfric wins. They are still living in a filthy slum. Argonians aren't even allowed to live in the city. "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" is a pretty messed up. Skyrim run by Nords, will obviously favor Nords, and overall, ignore other races. Shouldn't skyrim be run by those that live in it? We can already see what Nords think of and how they treat other races. Skyrim run by Nords, for Nords wouldn't be a good thing for Dunmer, Orcs, Argonians, or any race besides a Nord. There are 7 races in Skyrim that can spawn as Imperial soliders, or were once Imperial soldiers; Nords, Imperials, Bretons, Redguards, a Dunmer, an Altmer and two Orcs. Stormcloaks can only spawn as Nords, despite Nords making up ~47% of Skyrims population. Stormcloaks have almost no support from other races.
Delta Every race is racist, Orcs wont trust you to be in the stronghold unless you earned their respect, Same can be said for the dunmer refugees, If Ulfric was racist then how come he lets you join his army as either race? Hell even in Opening scene overhaul (A mod that restores the Original Intro) He even suggest that you can join his cause and you get to escape helgen with him alongside Ralof. Those dunmers in windhelm gotta earn the nords respect if they dont want to be treated as outcasts.
Delta. You really need to state some sources for your claims. To me this all seems like nonsense you pulled out of your ass. What lore states that Nords make out less than half the population in their own province, for instance?
An easy(ish) way to deal with the problem is just to let the player decide what happened through conversation. In KOTOR 2, you have a conversation early on with another character about recent events from the previous game, but both you and that character have sort of been out of it for the past several years. In the conversation, you are able to argue and determine whether or not the PC from KOTOR 1 was male or female, or if they went for the light side or the dark side ending. The choices don't have major impact on the storyline, but it determines which characters you meet. It shouldn't be too hard for Bethesda to let you, through dialogue, decide who won. "Did you hear about the Skyrim civil war?" "I did-- good for those Nords, winning their freedom." "What are you talking about? The Empire won." "Oh... dang."
It would be pretty easy to write whatever ending out. If SCs won and Imperials are canon victors, you could write either side as a temporary victory with a second invasion, possibly even done by the Thalmor
Well, I don’t think you are right. What is after the civil war, the aldmeri dominion take over? That was their goal with the civil war. (If you look at the document about ulfric that you get during the main quest it says that he was captured by them and they wanted the civil war to weeken the empire)
The empire should just leave Skyrim alone. I know it would've been better had there not been a civil war but the Empire couldn't even stand for themselves in a span of 30 years so what's more time gonna do especially if there's numerous Thalmor Spies? Skyrim is better off independent. Besides, it gives room for the Empire to put more soldiers on the front lines against the Thalmor. Basically, if you can't even regain full power in 30 years, what makes you think you'll be able to take care of another province? Except for trading and such but you get my point. Just leave Skyrim alone, make a truce, and focus on the Thalmor. Clinging on to Skyrim while the Thalmor is at full power is just stupid.
i mean if bethesta dosent go with this they could say that the dominion took over skyrim, as some imperial soldiers say ""The Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim" so they could say that and then it wouldnt really matter who won the civil war
If you side with the imperials then during General Tullius's speech to the soldiers waiting to fight at the gate to Windham he calls them "Professional Soldiers". As opposed to Ulfirc's rebels. I think that the Emperor put seasoned trained legions in Skyrim, but not enough supplies since they became cut off from the avalanche. The Emperor would need strong legions in skyrim to keep the Thalmor in check in Skyrim so close to the Cyrodiil border.
ES VI will be out in 2037 or the Apocalypse which ever comes first. Now as everyone knows the Empire has to win because if the Stormys win Skyrim becomes a province of the Dominion . If Skyrim falls so does the Empire . It's just a game but there has to be some logic lol , yes even in a game with magic and dragons lol
...why couldn't we just conquer Skyrim as Dovahkiin, after we stopped Alduin? My concept: If the Blades are on our side, why couldn't they have made that an option to make the Blades be the new guard for the Dragonborn when usurping the throne of High King? While I stopped working with the Blades after they demanded of me to kill Paarthurnax, it makes sense in my mind that if you work close enough with the Blades, they could be convinced by the Dragonborn to unlock "Secret Option C," and thus conquer Skyrim while kicking out the Legion and squashing the Stormcloaks. The Blades will still help with the dragon threat, but they could use this opportunity to, in a way, honor the legacy of the Blades during the Septim dynasty. And the more people you've recruited into the Blades? The greater your chances at truly and successfully claiming the throne and the Jagged Crown. You'll run the risk of failing if you don't have a great enough force behind you; that makes sense. But you could also have the option of swaying factions into your favor, once you've committed to taking over Skyrim; this could require incredible feats on the Dragonborn's part, however. "Secret Option C" could have almost been like the Wild Card route in F:NV, but possibly even better... Just an idea that I feel could have tremendously improved the game.
No matter which side your on during the civil war we can all agree that the Dominion is the worst and must be crushed
Or we can agree that humans are done and altmer triumph in the end?
To be honest I like the idea of the two world powers in a state of cold war. Could make for some good story telling if done right.
Damn
A NCR ranger but... with the name of comrad lenin
It supposed America will never fall to communism
@Tw1 Sorry but Syrabane and Phynaster already did that. By high elven standards, Tiber was pretty late to the party on becoming a god.
@Tw1 Considering most of Septim's military success was based on the use of the Numidium (aka elven technology) I doubt that. And as in the case of Syrabane and Phynaster, we have examples of high elves who achieved enough in life to be deified like Septim.
Here's hoping ESVI doesn't just say "Oh, there was another dragon break"
I'm legit hoping it won't be the case. I was discussing earlier with a friend how "maybe Bethesda will have a catastrophe happen soon after the civil war, or the empire will fall apart due to infighting and subsequent invasions, which would mean a nord-ruled Skyrim regardless of whether the Stormcloak repulse the Imperials before said catastrophe or after".
well I mean there was...
@@WillowProductions bethseda has not canonised a second dragon break. you on skooma?
@GreenTea I think what's worse is Bethesda literally had a second chance to improve the writing/story of Skyrim, with Skyrim: Special Edition. They could have drastically improved the stories of the various quests, actually fixed a lot more of the bugs, added more lines of dialogue, expanded existing factions and their questlines, improved upon the civil war by adding in some of the cut content, added in spears as a viable weapon option etc.
It's honestly a disappointment to me and why I'll never buy any Creation Club content. You look at the work of modders like the Beyond Skyrim Team, Legacy of the Dragonborn team and the Skyblivion, Skywind and Enderal developers and wonder what the hell, Bethesda has been doing. =( TES VI is going to have to be spectacular to get me to buy it, especially after the seemingly never-ending trainwreck that was Fallout 76.
@@eyesack6845 I mean there 'was' one unrecorded Dragon Break that is now canon. The one that banished Alduin through time... Even though that ISN'T how Elder Scrolls work. Another story-related thing they could have fixed while re-releasing Skyrim on PS4/Xbox One/PC as Special Edition =/.
There's another point in Skyrim that often gets overlooked. Titus Mede signed the White Gold Concordant. He had his reasons, primarily because he had to end the Great War. But looking back at the actual assassination scene in the Black Hand quest line, I got the impression that he actually expected to be taken out and believes his removal from power will benefit the Empire. To all the Imperials and Nords who held him in disdain because of his apparent cowardly act in making peace, his death removes the stigma. They are no longer held to the actions of a dead Emperor. The Thalmor have to realize this as well. It is the Emperor's signature on that document that made the WGC legal. Remove the signator and you give the Empire a basis, legitimate or not, to renounce the peace. You give them leave to restore Talos worship and remove one of the primary causes of the Skyrim revolt. No more Legionaires dying in Skyrim, a serious lessening of the Nord hatred of the Empire...troops currently in Skyrim made available to fight the Thalmor, Nords a little less adverse to serving in the Legions or at least supplying the Empire. Titus ended the war and took the blame upon himself...his death won't guarantee a resurgence of Imperial power, but it removes a major barrier to such a resurgence. A fractured Empire cannot win against the Thalmor but an Empire that is no longer tearing itself apart may be able to triumph. That fact is one of the reasons the Thalmor wanted to keep the civil war in Skyrim going..they knew it was a bleeding ulcer for the Empire. Healing that wound with the death of the Emperor restores strength to the Empire.
All hail Emperor Motierre
That would make Titus Meade, comparable with Martin Septim himself, Martin Septim sacrificed himself to become an Avatar of Akatosh, to save the Empire, Titus Meade sacrifices himself to reunite the Empire and thus saving it, as well
@@samuelhaverghast2442 But he polarized it too though
Yeah, Skyrim really is meant to be part of the Empire. If it weren't for the banning of Thalos worship, Skyrim would be a peaceful land. Plus the Emperor was ready to give up Hammerfell in exchange for peace, so what does that mean for Skyrim? The Emperor could've easily given up Skyrim, this reinforces the idea that the other provinces are just pawns to the Empire's game. The White Gold Concordat is not really a sacrifice for the greater good to me, but more of a bad PR stunt for the Empire. The Emperor needs to die indeed and he knows it, but then what? Hate towards the Empire will still grow while Thalos worship is banned, and I don't see another Emporer solving these problems. I think Skyrim will eventually be independent, but not by the hands of Ulfric.
“IT oFtEn GeTs OvErLoOkEd” no it doesn’t. That’s a well acknowledged theory. Stop thinking you’re smart for pointing out the obvious
Now that Skyrim is reunited with the Empire, we can take the fight to those damn Thalmor!
the empire is in ruin and only the stormcloak and this dunmer will but the thalmor in there place
CommanderM117 isn’t morrowind in a crisis/ under invasion & the storm cloaks a poor mans militia? I don’t see them being a threat to the dominion or anyone for that matter
morrowind is a wasteland more so then usually is but redoran are rebuilding and we have taken some of are land back from the argonian but we are not being invaded we are worse of yes but a little help and my people could be a strong ally for the nords
we also share a hatred for the thalmor and we don't like the empire it very likely that after the empire win or loss the second great war ether 1 will invade morrowind just to purge us for draedra worship i am helping those that fight both and gave my people a place to stay
CommanderM117 Since when do the Dunmer hate the thalmor? It really looks like they don’t give a fuck about them.
thalmor/altmer are Aedra Worshipers we Worship Deadra it would not belong before after dealing with the humans they would turn on us i mean they hunt down heretic in summerset so it likely they would see us as bad same apply with empire only they do it for greed
Tullius is a badass. He took up untrained Legionnaires and brought about a turnaround for the Empire in the War. He forced a stalemate with untrained Legionnaires. He would have utterly destroyed the Stormcloaks
in a few days with a proper legion. It's not just legion it's also in the General
After 6 months in enemy territory, he was able to ambush the enemy leader. That is a next level bad ass, and doing it with untrained youth nonetheless.
Truely a great leader
@@tntsummers926 what's better is that at that point the war as basically fuckin' over. Ulfric captured and about to he executed. Tullius hadn't even been in Skyrim for a full year...and did that with a bunch of farmers!
"Battles are won by well trained soldiers,. Wars are won by exceptional individuals." General Tullius.
@@tntsummers926 2 months actually. tullius is underrated.
LONG LIVE EMPEROR TITUS MEDE! LONG LIVE THE EMP-
wait....
*Flashback to the Dark Brotherhood*
Oops...
@Kristopher Shafer Does the Dark Brotherhood assassin destabilise the Empire? Or does the assassin actually guarantees the success of the Empire...?
Titus died a Martyr's death, and it's been very much speculated that his death was in fact a premeditated suicide. Meaning it's all part of some grand plan.
You do know you can destroy them by siding with the Penitus Oculatus right?
@@johnr3940 i like the idea of rexus being the new emperor.
I always get to the last mission and purposely leave him alive. I just love to see the glorious Katariah
@@alex_ho Yeah. I think there is a plan here to. Titus Mede was a really cool character, and I hope he had a plan, and we will see that deploy during The Elder Scrolls VI !
depends too, having a insanely powerfull character like the dragonborn go political like old tiber septim himself can easily define the fate of an empire
I think the db should become emperor
@@andryuu_2000 yes but they probably won't, they had their chance with the Nerevarine, who had a much better chance of becoming ruler, on the count of the fact that establishing themselves as a major political figure in Morrowind, is part of the Main Quest.
Not to mention trying to realize a former player character as a NPC in the sequel would be a Nightmare coding and writing wise.
No they're probably going to say that they "mysteriously disappeared" and Herma Mora's going to reference a pet Dragon, and if we go to another plane of Aetherius a character will reference a "guest of honor" being at Sovengard
@@vincegalila7211 Yeah, the Dragonborn DLC implies that The Last DB will get stuck in Apocrypha somehow, having the same fate as Miraak
@@TitusTheBard or at the very least will become the Princes agent in Oblivion. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be used for the Prince's petty disputes.
It would make poetic sense as well for the Ulfric to be defeated by another wielder of the Thuum.
Just as it would make sense for a Stormcloak victory should the Dragonborn side with Ulfric, but I think the Imperial dragonborn makes for a better plot story.
It would be cool if they would let you do what Dragon Age does. Let you choose what happened in your Skyrim and the world would change slightly. Like the choices you make in DA don't make huge changes but the things you do offer subtle changes and are spoken through dialog.
For instance, in DA:O there is a very important moment at the landsmeet where you determine the fate of Loghain Mac Tir. Depending on what happens here, it will affect who appears in DA:I. Hawke, the PC from DA:2 will have a Grey-Warden ally. One of three characters will assume this role (Alistar, Loghain or Stroud.).
Regardless of who it is, the story will pan out the same.
Witcher 3 also does something similar but much simpler. Near the beginning of the game there is a scene where you will be asked questions about the events of Witcher 2. You have multiple options to each question which allow you to choose what you did in the game.
Let's say you destroy the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. In TES6 you might see the Night Mother at a sanctuary. Babette and/or Cicero could make an appearance and they can tell you about what happened at the Falkreath sanctuary. Cicero could say, when he arrived there he found nothing but corpses so he kept going. Babette could tell you the she found her brothers dead after returning from a contract. Being the only one left she decided to move on.
Perhaps even the sanctuary could be a little different depending on the outcome of Skyrim. If the DB was destroyed maybe this sanctuary could seem a little run down as if they've been having some bad luck but now that the Night Mother has arrived it's time to turn things around. Or if the DB wasn't the sanctuary could look like it's doing quite well. There's plenty of members, coin scattered throughout the sanctuary and everyone follows tradition to the letter.
Let's say you didn't get involved at all in Skyrim, perhaps the Night Mother shows up in the next Sanctuary and the members of this sanctuary talk down about the members of the Falkreath Sanctuary. Saying things like while they may use the DB name, they are not real children of Sithis and he will punish them all in the void.
They don't need to be drastic changes just small things you might see or hear about.
In my skyrim i destroyed the darkbrotherhood i would line in tje next game to kill ciecero and babet to finaly end the darkbrothehood
That would be awesome, I've always thought the same.
I totally love Dragonage too, good point to bring up
I wish they had done that for TES as Daggerfall had multiple endings. Literally. They said all of them happened. but this is Bethesda. They're lazy
Dragon age is shit m8
the only good one was the 1st game
That's assuming a pro-Stormcloak Dragonborn died or went to Apocrypha never to be seen again. But then again, Bethesda might just decide he took no sides at all (at best) or keep the story vague & obscure as they always have done, wich is most likely. In any case, Empire or Stormcloak victory, I believe the Dominion's patient schemes will win in the long run & will wreak havoc on Tamriel eventually, only to be stopped by the next protagonist in some fashion.
That's assuming a pro-Stormcloak Dragonborn existed in the first place.
They will choose that he/she never chose a side, also in the tes lore we have dragon breaks, this makes it, so bethesda can ignore everything you do in the game, and even most things they wrote so far for the game.
The Forgotten Hero Neither did a Pro-Imperial Dragonborn.
I already assumed this but in much less detail, my thought process is that if the player goes imperial the stormcloaks are gone forever, If the player goes stormcloak the empire is not gone so the simplest resolution is the empire winning
Dragonborn Emperor? Please?! And yes Imperials were obvious starting with Jarl Balgruuf.
The Dragonborn will be whisked away into obscurity like every other Elder Scrolls protagonist.
But weren't dovahkiin a vampire and a mora servant now?
@Guess I'll Die
Hope not. I prefer for there to be less cop out continuity between the entries in the series especially since I don't want the empire to remain weak. In the words of Lorebeard Zaric Zhakaron: "Bethesda are sissies!"
Guess I'll Die riiiiight... Sheogorath proves otherwise.
Hard to swallow pills: your Elder Scrolls character is irrelevant outside of their game, once a hero has fulfilled their destiny they have no more purpose
I believe the Empire will have won the war and we will be able to read about it in a 4 part book series in ES6.
Actually I think if we consider these notes, the Empire will ultimately win either way BUT I think Bethesda are hinting at Ulfric initially winning round 1...
If the Dragonborn defeats Ulfric, the whole civil war is slightly anti-climactic... But if this reinforcement legion is the key deciding factor, it opens up the door for the Thalmor to play a more significant aggressive role in the future.
If the Dragonborn squashes Ulfric's rebellion with Imperial Nordic farmers, the Empire & the Dominion will be more evenly matched, reducing the sense of urgency & threat of a 2nd Great War.
I can see the books writing Ulfric as a serious confrontation that brought the Empire down a notch, rather than a bum who never got past Whiterun.
This especially plays into the theory of the Emperor sanctioning his own assassination to mend the rift between Empire & Nord, an act he wouldn't have done if the Stormcloaks weren't more than a thorn in the side.
@@IduNaVi2023the dragonborn will not play any political role, except for the truce which for me is canon.
Why? He's way too powerful to take parts into a civil war and eventually enter imperial politics or international politics.
+ THERE IS FUCKING DRAGONS EVERYWHERE
Do you think the imperials and the stormcloaks would realistically kill each other while fire-spitting monsters fly around burning towns? The dragonborn whose job is to stop the dragons could have authority and influence a truce in the best interest of the entire region, even considering that he's thane in every hold canonically and basically friend with every Jarl on both sides.
Then the civil war would start again, but the LDB will likely be in apocripha for eternity serving Hermaeus Mora, as the LDB is canonically enrolled in the college of winterhold, and his love for knowledge would drive him towards serving Mora
@@IduNaVi2023and oh yeah, the LDB slayed Alduin, the litteral World-eater. Dont you think he'd be revered as a God by all the people in Tamriel? Absolutely, Tiber Septim did much less to achieve Godhood.
The LDB will be written off and hinted to be in apocrypha by like Mora saying "i got a pet dragon" or something like that.
And probably some books saying "a dragonborn came in skyrim, they came together with alduin the world-eater, killed him, and then disappeared"
The use of untrained soilders is a risky but brilliant plan, if the empire wins the Civil War the thalmor will believe that the imperials could barely beat a bunch of rebels and when the time for war comes around the thalmor having underestimated the imperial army will send less and/or weaker soilders thus giving the empire the advantage
I agree with your theory, the imperial forces seem to be a vexillatio of one of the legions mixed with local troops to hold the line and screen the province so one of the empires legions can organize and deploy itself into the province after clearing pale pass and setting up logistical supply lines.
The natural mountains that border around Skyrim, and the harsh weather. Makes Skyrim a logistical hell for the Empire if they wanted to overthrow Ulfric. I think that if the Stormcloaks just held a defensive position and made friends with the Redguards. They have a chance to at least hold an independent state for a decade or two.
the nord are the literal back bone of the empire without it the empire is nothing they even losses there empire statues only holding 2 provinces
Those mountains didn't help the Nords when the Empire came to invade it three other times, it won't change that now, either.
+CommanderM117
No they're not. The Imperials are the backbone of the Empire.
CommanderM117 Yeah, that's kind of a hilarious statement. The Imperials have been the backbone of the Imperial Legion for centuries, this is simply a canonical fact. They are the most 'patriotic' race of the Empire, which isn't a surprise considering there province is it's capital. The Legion and Nacy os open to all races, but the backbone of those forces has, since long before the Fall if the Septims, been the Imperials. The idea that the Nords, one if the most barbaric races in Tamriel who are generally undisploned, or Skyrim, one of the poorest, least developed and least resource rich provinces of Tamriel, is the backbone if the Empire is simply ludicrous... Thoigh they did make up useful soldiers in the Legion once approristly trained, they hadn't been the core of an Imperial Legion since the early days if Tiber Septim
Your forgetting the Imperial Navy is the biggest fleet in tes, mix that with proper battle mages and the storm cloaks are screwed seven ways to sunday.
"This note is the key to everything..." - Imperial Knowledge
"Jar Jar is the key to all this." -George Lucas
"Runs-In-Circles is key to this"
-- Emil Pagliarulo
What if the dragon born ends up following in the foot steps of talos and ends up becoming the new emperor
I wish that after becoming an Imperial war hero in Skyrim you can somehow become the Emperor and finally bring the Dragon Blood to the Ruby Throne.
@@saudade7842: Know this is late, but honestly, I think when it comes to the game specifically, crowning the player Emperor is pushing it in my opinion. I understand lore wise the Dragonborn could very well become emperor, but to keep the game skyrim themed, I think it would make sense to keep the game and the player in Skyrim as much as possible and leave everything that could happen outside of that to fate with the Bethesda Devs.
If I were Bethesda, I would have done something like this:
You can become high king regardless of the path you choose. Ulfric could get killed in the final battle for Solitude and you take his place in finishing the war and becoming the "new ulfric" in the process so to speak. Therefore you become the next High King/Queen.
If you are Imperial, you could be mooted High King by the council, as Queen Elisef's not officially the High Queen and only a temporary stand in during the war. In this scenario, I think you should also be able to have to choose. Become high king, or leave the throne to the Queen (choosing the latter, you get thane and Proud spire manor by default) or an additional 3rd option, if you are not married, you could take her hand in marriage and rule together. This could also provide a useful use for the marriage system.
Either way, depending on what you do, you could potentially make the Blue Palace in Solitude your home, and to fit the lore, could also provide a pathway for Bethesda to make the Dragonborn emperor in ES 6 if they so choosed. Have Elder Scrolls 6 be in the 5th era, and vaguely state in a book or something that the Dragonborn went on to start a new era (or a new empire depending on the scenario) after Skyrim by becoming emperor and his/her descendents are the new Dynasty.
I know this might not be the greatest idea, but it's what I personally would have done if I could choose. I'm still fairly new to Bethesda games and the Elder Scrolls franchise, and although I am extremely hooked on the latter, (especially lore wise) I can't help but feel so many wasted opportunities were missed. Civil War being one of them. I know mods can fix this, but still, the base games should be more fulfilling in my opinion. Civil War was lackluster Gameplay wise, but the lore around it was fascinating. Same for the College of WinterHold. Fascinating lore, extremely lackluster in game.
@@tigervalley62 Yeah, I don't think becoming the emperor would work. I'm really not sure how they could make any governmental office, much less emperor, fun while keeping the gameplay the same. I don't think it would work with this style of rpg, but I can dream.
I’ve actually had a theory about this for a few years. My thoughts were that in the end it wouldn’t matter who won the war because the outcome would be the same. For starters, there is one thing that won’t change regardless of who wins the war, the Dragonborn will be a top general in the army that won. After the war a new high king would need to be crowned, following a stormcloak victory, that king would be Ulfric. Unfortunately for him, I believe even if he wins the war he will be killed. This would leave Skyrim without a king regardless of who won the war, which would allow the moot to choose a new king. So the natural choice would obviously be the hero who led the victorious army across the battlefield, managed to slay Alduin, and has won favor with essentially every jarl. This series of events would place the Dragonborn as the high king of Skyrim. And coincidentally, assassins have just killed the emperor leaving the empire in need of a new ruler. So now the elder council needs to elect an emperor, and coincidentally, there happens to be a king in Skyrim who is essentially Tiber septim reborn. He is a Dragonborn like all the septum’s were, he is a military commander who has never lost a battle, he is probably the most powerful warrior in Tamriel, and he already has the full support of the blades, which were the emperors traditional body guards. As a side note, if Skyrim did secede from the empire, making their king the new emperor would more than likely make them willing to reunite with the empire.
Overall, this theory covers both endings of the civil war, the dark brotherhood, and the main quest line. In regards to the dark brotherhood, the quest line would unfold the same way regardless. Just like how they were wiped out in cyrodiil during oblivion. In the end players can believe whatever they want when the read about Titus Medes assassination. Either the Dragonborn did it, or he was an upstanding citizen and some random assassin killed the emperor. Either way, the result is the same. So regardless of what choices you made in Skyrim, you would end up with a United empire with the Dragonborn sitting on the throne. And the best part is, you can consider all of your Skyrim choices cannon, regardless of what those choices were. And as a bonus, those choices would make you the emperor, which would add a bit more weight to the decisions you made.
Anyways, sorry if I rambled a bit, writing this in bed while I’m half asleep.
And I’m down to discuss this, and if anyone sees any problems that prevent this theory from working, let me know. But as far as I can tell, it works for the entire game and would allow any choices the players made to be cannon.
Problem is that in canon, the protagonist only completes the main questlines of the main game and DLC, this is done to prevent the forcing of a story down on headcanons.
@@dutchpatriot17 then why was he talking about the dark brotherhood
@@gahmuretvanbegonia994 Who?
10/10
Sad reality of Elder Scrolls games: your character is irrelevant outside of their game
TLD is probably stuck being Hermaeus Mora's slave
I love that when we talk on lore of the armise of both the Imperial, stormcloaks and highelves we think of vass amount of men and women fighting to the death in a battlefield but in the game its like 10 to 20 guys can easily take over a city. Thats just funny to me to think in the great war each battle would just be like 50 guys fighting one another to the death
This last great war shall be decided down at the old well! You better bring all 10 of your soldiers! It’s gonna be a street wide blood bath to end all scuffles!
Makes sense if you want to have a larger Imperial/Thalmor fight in the future. Gives you hope that they have plotted out the story for a few games.
If they don't spend a decade making each game.
I agree with this, the fact that the Stormcloaks are having a hard time taking Skyrim against an incredibly weak Empire, should tell you they wouldn’t win against the Empire at full strength, or the dominion for that matter.
yeah once you realise nearly all the soldiers are levies
All the Imperial troops in Skyrim are from Skyrim...
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 you could probably call them an auxilia , the real heavy troopers from actual legion formations would probably sit around in solitude in their heavy armor
@@mcsmash4905 They should deploy them in Falkreath and Hjaalmarch, no wonder why they're losing the war.
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 the imperials almost won the war on several ocassions the only thing stopping them from doing so is thalmor interferrence ( cause they want the war to keep going) and the heavy troopers are most likely few in number so they just defend their main political base which is solitude , i mean even the penitus oculatus is in dragonbridge basicaly outside of solitude
This is why I always thought that the game should have pictured traditionalist Nords (Stormcloaks) versus imperial Nords (Imperials) with the actual Empire not really caring because both sides are not leaving the Empire, as both sides still hate the Thalmor with a passion as well as want to be part of the Empire, but are fighting a civil war between two internal political factions in Skyrim with General Tullus simply being employed by the imperial Nords as a recently retired Imperial general looking for a payday at the end of his career. The fight could be over religion whether the old Nord Gods or the Imperial Cult should hold sway in Skyrim for instance with wealthier Nords tending towards support of the Imperial Cult and poor and middle class Nords tending towards the Old Ways.
That way you still have a choice in outcome that matters, Bethesda can go either way in the lore as far as Skyrim's civil war, and still keep the Empire as a solid force against the Dominion for the next title without having to effectively force a decision one way or the other.
Under that system the Empire could even have a recruiting officer in Stormcloak or Imperial territory recruiting for the Imperial Legion that the player could meet and interact with who'd even laugh at the local Legion troops calling them "Provincial farmers and book keepers not worthy of Legion steel!"
Totally agree. Or they could have made the Concordat force one of the Nords' own gods be banned, like Shor. If the Stormcloaks were fighting over Shor rather than Talos, their cause gains a lot more merit, and loses quite a bit of hypocrisy.
@@dutchpatriot17 How are they being hypocritical as is?
@@bryanbridges2987 They claim to be fighting for Nord culture, yet fight to preserve worship of an Imperial God.
@@dutchpatriot17 What? That doesn't makes sense. Tiber Septim is a human. All humans trace their ancestry to the Nords. He was a Dragonborn, a gift given to the Nords first. He is the only Aedra to start life as a mortal, as a creature rather than a creator. To say he is just "an Empirial deity" is very silly.
@@bryanbridges2987 All humans trace their ancestry to the Atmorans, not to the Nords.
Being Dragonborn has nothing to do with being a Nord.
He is an Imperial Diety. The Nine Divines are worshipped by the Imperial Cult; a sub-section of the Imperial Pantheon. The Nords have their own Pantheon; Kyne, Shor, Tsun, Stuhn, Orkey, just to name a few. They are just not worshipped by the Nords of the Fourth Era, and the Stormcloaks are incredibly ironic for claiming to fight for Nord culture while dishonoring more of it than the Empire ever has.
Genius! As I've never done a 'Stormcloak' run I never saw that version.
*My Stormcloak Dragonborn, meanwhile, standing at the border, axe in hand, and an entire catalogue of dragon shouts*
“Let them come! I’m waiting!”
You guys also have to remember that the stormcloak rebelion is a underhanded plot to weaken the empire from within
What Talos said in Morrowind
Poor Old Emperor: "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
There won't be empire soon.
Its clear that bethesda have plan to destroy empire and from 4th era we see how fast everything happen.
Empire and Thalmor are only who walks with prisoners who wait horrible death and Player can help them meaning that Empire and Thalmor are in same enemy category.
What war preparations?
Do you think that Thalmor don't know about everything in Cyrodiil?
They have their spies everywhere. Empire is broke, legions are weak and Pentus Oculatus is just pathetic to have any sirious role.
Thalmor will attack again and Thalmor will won.
Thalmor will destroy empire but with some casualties and coalition of allied countries of North Tamriel will be only Humans side thatwill fight for humans.
Thalmor have in their pocket imperial nobles and they abduct nords from their homes just because of their religion.
Empire and Thalmor are partners in crime.
Empire is servant state of Thalmor
Empire keeps imperial Jarls happy with gold and same does Thalmor.
Battleborns help Thalmor to capture Nords and there is imperial flag in NORTHWATCH kEEP WHERE INNOCENT PEOPLES ARE TORTURED.
Only Stormcloaks fight for right cause which is freedom.
Imperial and Thalmor mind cannot understand that but freedom is most important thing in the world.
Imperial and Thalmor are both partners in crime against Nords and they are argessors.
Dragonborn is depicted as Nord, cannot denied Talos and his reneval of Blades are against laws of empire's master the Thalmor.?
Nords are known as Bane of Elves.
The Nords once conquered most of Tamriel. Destroyed Snow Elves, they broke the power of the Ayleids, nearly drove the High Elves out of High Rock, and conquered much of Resdayn, the precursor to Morrowind.
@@michaelstark8720 When are the Nords referred to as the Bane of the elves? They were pretty badly defeated by the Dark elves/Chimer and Deep elves which is largely why they hold so little territory in Tamriel beyond the first era. Even the Bosmer managed to cripple Skyrim by attacking and killing its king during a Wild Hunt.
And racist
@@michaelstark8720 the Thalmor don't control the empire. They're waiting, doing as the Thalmor say, until they're strong enough. Strong enough to destroy the Thalmor, to FREE mainland Tamriel. Seeing as Ulfric doesn't know he is being used. That killing the previous jarl, who was sympathetic to him. With the shout, would've caused a civil war. He's not smart, if he was, he would've helped the empire in this cold war. Or used the previous jarl's sympathies, to not have a civil war. Or at the very least, not kill the previous jarl, with a shout. Because killing the jarl, in a duel deciding who's jarl, does not make you jarl. A moot, decides who is jarl, and killing your previous jarl, doesn't help your image.
Choose one:
Imperials (Assholes)
Stormcloaks (Racists)
Wow, that is awesome! I am extremely impressed by this attention to detail in the lore in preparation for going forward with the series on Bethesda's part. Well done on the reporting, and well done GM Jauffre! Thank you
Theory time
*tes vi comes out
*player gets told that the empire kept losing and regaining skyrim, and the same with the stormcloaks, thus causing both tullius and ulfric to die
*it doesnt say who got control first though, that way anyone can think that their playthrough is canon
*its optional who has skyrim by the time tes vi is released, but i hope the stormcloaks because i really like them
*everyones happy
The only thing you need to know is Ulfric carrys the Axe of Cowardice. The game is always supporting the imperial as the mainstory.
You do know what that Axe does right?
The note means nothing. A Legion forms, who's to say the second legion will win if they invade? And if the Dragonborn is on the Stormloak's side they will have a soldier that could single handedly tke the Imperial Forts during the civil war.
Also. the note asks for recruits or it will all be for nothing. That implies Ulfric has recruits to send but maybe isn't focusing as much of them on Falkreath as he needs to.
DB would of left when the legion attacks cus Bethesda does that also the legion WILL attack
Here is the problem with your theory. Lets say that this is true that an Imperial legion is preparing to retake Skyrim. The Nords are not your herp derp warriors. They along with the Redguards and the Orcs are considered the finest warriors in the world. Sure the Legion won against the Aldmeri Dominion after they destroyed their Daedric artifact, but this is a far cry from fighting a United Skyrim full of some of the greatest warriors alive. The Legion aren't the only ones who know how to use formations the Nords have been using Shield Walls since they landed in Skyrim from Atmora. Secondly it was a NORD LEGION that made the difference in the battle for the Red Ring. Thirdly Ulfric and Galmar are Legion veterans and know how the Legion works. With a united Skyrim behind them and all of it's resources at their disposal they will be able to make better troops and better equip them before fighting the Empire. Finally the Nords have an advantage of terrain. They just need to hold the pass. The Legion has to break through it. Not an easy thing when held by a determined army. (Examples being Thermopylae.) So while this is an interesting theory I still don't think that the Empire takes control of Skyrim.
Let's also look at it from a gameplay perspective. What would add more intruige and choices to the game? The Stormcloaks winning and trying to gain more alliances, or the Empire? The Stormcloaks winning will add more options for story in my opinion. But then again Bethesda is not the greatest at giving us deep options.
The Imperials have some of the best armies Tamriel has ever seen. The Nords did not make a difference during the Battle of the Red Ring, the Nords only ensured the Aldmeri that attempted to escape were killed. The Imperials, Bretons, and Redguards were the ones who did most of the fighting.
The second army, largely of Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal. The main army was commanded by the Emperor himself, and would undertake the main assault of the Imperial City from the north.
On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus's legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded. ((So the Nords were facing assaults from two different directions. And if they had not held the entire plan would have failed.))
An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions. ((Again the Nords making the difference here.))
This is all from the ingame lore book A Concise account of the Great War Between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion, by Legate Justianus Quintius.
Right... You know what else would have resulted in failure? If the Imperial, Breton and Redguard Legions were too weak to defeat *Naarifin's main army which was located in the capital.* The Nords fought off piecemeal attacks, that's not such a grand feat.
The Aldmeri attempted to break out after the battle was already over; these were not battle-hardened elves looking for a fight, but morale-deprived elves looking for a way to safety.
So first off, we do not know when the attempt to break out of the Imperial city started. Because anyone with half a fucking brain would go. Hu, we need to get out of here before we are surrounded on all sides. So they tried to break through and it was the Nordic legion that stopped it. Even then, it is besides the point as the most dangerous man alive is the one who has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Even if this was the end of the battle and the Aldmeri forces were weakened, they now know it is break through or die. This will make them fight harder then ever before.
"but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad." Now from that line it sounds like it was intense fighting. (The second line contradicts this, so we can't be one hundred percent sure of how hard the fighting was.)
Historical books are written in terms of chronology in mind. The Aldmeri attempt to break out of the city occured *after* the main event had come to pass.
''Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government.''
Only after this part do they mention the attempted break out, which makes sense, because their leader was dead and their main army would be largely destroyed.
Desperate soldiers fight worse after an exhausting battle than confident soldiers in the heat of it.
Can you make a video on which SkyRim quests are Canon and what order to play the Canon quests and I mean all of them every single one including the Creator Club ones
This is assuming that the Stormcloaks let the Legion clear the avalanche, and I mean, clear it enough to send a full army. Having a narrow path through the mountains is about as dangerous as having no path. Having a large force walk through narrow passes is suicidal.
This is 2 years late, but even if there was a narrow pass, Imperial battle-mages could be tanks in the front and ignite Stormcloaks as they pass.
Well, the Aldmeri want to bring about the end of the world by destroying the anchor towers in each region. ESVI will probably center around your character preventing this from happening.
Yes for the Empire, For the Emperor.
The Thalmor will invade Hammerfel and High Rock and push into Skyrim. Mankind united pushes them back into Hammerfel where it becomes a main theme of ES6. ES6 will just mention that all the major players in the Civil War were killed. Bur the actual outcome as it occurred in your playthrough is not relevant and won't be mentioned.
Both endings would likely be similar to each other. If the Stormcloaks win, Skyrim and the Empire are still major trading partners, not unlike the American colonies and the British Empire after the American Revolution. Did the successful War of Independence result in the permanent severing of all ties between America and Britain? No, it didn't. Instead, they became major allies. Ulfric would probably tone down or be persuaded by advisers to tone down his anti Imperial rhetoric to restore ties. Meanwhile, the Empire would likely see to establish good relations with the newly independent Skyrim, and to that end might be inspired to take a stronger stance against the Thalmor.
If the Imperials win the Civil War, High Queen Elisif will likely try to appease Ulfric's followers by being conspicuously bad at cracking down on Talos worship. She might even tell the Thalmor that with Ulfric dead, they have no further business in Skyrim and can see themselves out at the southern border.
Either way, the Thalmor don't want the Civil War to end. They want humans to kill humans en masse, and will send assassins after the Dragonborn regardless of which side you lead to victory. If you complete the Civil War questline, the Thalmor lose no matter what.
This
Major allies that declared war on each other in 1812. Allies that blockaded each other's trade.
Very odd terms for ally-ship if I do say so myself.
That is true, but America and France very nearly went to war during the Adams presidency despite French aid being the only reason America existed as a country. Perhaps a better choice of words would have been trading partners, which would apply to Skyrim and the Empire as well. In fact, trade is part of why the Federalists were so keen on maintaining close ties with Britain, and they were the dominant political party until they dropped the ball and tried to use war with France as an excuse to turn the Constitution into toilet paper.
Neither the US nor Britain were facing a literal existential threat at the time, so
It did take years for anything close to an alliance to form.
“They have to have an excuse why you can’t go to Cyrodil” meanwhile the Morrowind border is just a big invisible wall
If you think about it the Empire was never the real enemy of Skyrim. The Imperials and the Nords were always great allies until the Aldmeri Dominion came along. The Thalmor where just as much a threat to the Empire as they where to Skyrim.
Kind of obvious that the Imperials win. We play as somebody from the Empire throughout the series (minus Redguard I think) and to make the Stormcloaks the winning side is to put Skyrim An Elder Scrolls Legend instead of a main storyline game. We also have the Imperial Army that has actually been massed and ready to go invade Skyrim after the winter. Even if Ulfric taking Solitude is canonical, the Empire still comes in and puts the head of every Stormcloak on pike. The only exception being the Dragonborn because he/she would be known by everyone as a hero.
Here's an idea, why can't the Stormcloaks just trigger another avalanche? It snows almost all the time near Pale Pass, just keep triggering avalanches to stop the Imperials from coming simple. The only other place the Imperials can enter Skyrim is through Markarth, which is the most heavily entrenched city in Skyrim. The whole reach is full of canyons and trenches. Not a smart move to try to invade that way.
Do you know how avalanches work?
+The Forgotten Hero It is TES physics, and TES weather, so they don't have to work like real life. In TES, you can get a frost mage to conjure up a blizzard storm and cause an avalanche like that. IRL you cannot do that. You can also just catapult something up there to trigger an avalanche, or shoot a lot of arrows up there, or manually go up there, and move some boulders, or shovel some snow out of the way, to make it unstable to cause an avalanche. Or just create an echo sound. Yell, or scream, and it will echo, and the echo can cause an avalanche.
Yeah, you don't know how an avalanche works.
If the Dragonborn used his Fus Ro Dah, I'm sure he could trigger one.
The DRAGONBORN, knowing Ulfric has been unknowingly manipulated by the Thalmor, convinces Ulfric to stand down. Elisif becomes high queen, The DRAGONBORN becomes the emperor, unifies Skyrim with the empire again. Then utterly decimates the Thalmor. As it should be, mean while things are heating up between the Bretons and the Orcs with the Redguards caught in the middle, so to speak. Intro TES6
If todd doesn't add this, I'll be pissed
I always pictured Ulfric more as the type to start losing his shit when the Moot goes "Yeah Ulfric you won the war and all but your policies on racial segregation are really starting to cause problems for everyone so we don't want you to be High King" and then the Dragonborn has to put him down as he tries to hold on to power
When I finished Skyrim I let Parth leave with the dragons, and the empire won the civil war because I felt the dominion was the real enemy. I'd love to see canon lore where the dragonborn escapes the clutches of mora, returns to skyrim, and uses a new learned shout to recall the dragons who in my opinion fell back to regroup, and together with the Empire, the dragons, and the remnants of the rebels, take the fight to Summerset Isle and reinstate the worship of Talos.
"SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NERDS"
I always thought fighting for the empire was more honorable and fun too, maybe because it was intricate and its intricacy was a sign of it being the lore choice
Well another bit we have to acknowledge is this: Does the Dragonborn canonically join ANYONE in the Civil War, or is The Peace Conference the Canon conclusion?
If the answer to the first part is Yes, then you must include the Last Dragonborn in the equation. Also, I’m working under the assumption that the Dragonborn is the guy you see in The Trailer and Box art. So bare with me there.
If the Dragonborn joins the Stormcloaks, the Empire, and later the Dominion would be fucked. Because the Last Dragonborn in lore wields so much power and can bend Dragons to their will, whoever they join will have a huge advantage. The Dragonborn in game is given a motive to hate the Empire, as they tried to have them executed for “just crossing the border”. If the Dragonborn were to be The Box Art Nord for example, a Proud Nord like that would probably take the opportunity to oppose the Empire.
If the Dragonborn joined The Empire, as unlikely as that would be for a Nord who just escaped execution at their hands, but whatever; ahem, The Dragonborn could not only help in re-establishing full Imperial Power by helping reunite succeeded provinces, but perhaps The Dragonborn themself could become Emperor, due to the Cultural and Historical significance. Yes there currently aren’t Dragonfires that need lighting but hey, I can think of a few provinces that wouldn’t mind a new Dragonborn Emperor.
Ultimately it isn’t a question of whether or not The Civil War is won, the question is does the Dragonborn actually have a stake in it, when their main quest is to destroy Alduin, and later Miraak. Because, if the Dragonborn joins either side and reaches full power, The In lore Dragonborn will boost that factions power immensely. But if the Dragonborn joins neither side, it’ll likely drag on in a Season Unending.
Because realistically the Dragonborn is the scale tipper that allows the civil war to run full steam ahead in one direction against the Thalmor’s wishes to keep it ongoing.
I bring this up, because we can’t just leave the Dragonborn out of the equation; they are essential to the story. But consequently, we might end up with a Dragonbreak as a result of that.
So, I ask you; (based on the idea that The Dragonborn is The Box Art Nord):
- Does the Dragonborn, with their pride wounded and Nordic vengeance in their heart, Join Ulfric’s Rebellion and tear the Empire away from Skyrim, bolstering Ulfric’s army and providing bent Dragons to assist in Skyrim’s warfront against the Dominion?
- Does the Dragonborn believe the Empire is vital against the Dominion(I have reason to believe the Dragonborn crossed over from Cyrodill but that’s besides the point); and will they in turn bolster Imperial Power, put down The Rebellion, and bolster the Imperial Army with their newfound Dragon allies?
- Or is the Civil War entirely of no concern to them? Is the threat of Alduin so great that Skyrim as a Province is inconsequential to The Dragonborn?(Remember, the Dragonborn is a foreigner to Skyrim.) Will the Civil War drag on in an unending red season?
Over all good video, was just a couple things I wanted to point out, neither the imperial forces in Skyrim nor the stormcloaks are made up of “just farmers” they are majority both made up of the former nord legion, the same nord legion that saved all of cyrodil in the first Great War, furthermore the letter isn’t supposed to be taken as fact, it’s supposed to show that the stormcloaks are paranoid of further reinforcements.
I don’t remember tullius ever saying the emperor saw the rebellion as anything close to trival, again it was the Nord legions that kept him his throne, rather it’s impossible for the empire to send more men to Skyrim due to the thalmor. Yes the empire has more men than the stormcloaks but in the event of ulfric getting rid of tullius the empire won’t be able to invade, Skyrim is virtually impregnable from the south due to the pale pass, think the movie 300 doesn’t matter how many men the empire sends when you have a choke point like that.
The Nords are also one of the two greatest warrior races in the setting (the other being redguards, look how it went for the thalmor when they tried to invade hammerfell).
The emperor sent one of if not his best general to Skyrim to deal with the situation simply put he’s not taking it lightly if he could send more troops he would.
Long live the empire
Calm down, Stormcloaks. After the Second Great War with the Aldmeri Dominion is won, the
White-Gold concordate will be void, and you can have your precious god Talos back.
Exactly what I've been trying to explain to all my Stormcloak 'friends'
Some thoughts on the civil war topic that I typed a while ago:
The Thalmor were the ones who proposed the concordat. Every day they grow stronger while their agents are given free reign of the empire to spy and sabotage- all the while, they prepare in secret. If peace was not ever in their favor, the Dominion would resume open war today. Maintaining anything resembling the status quo is completely out of the question if you don't want the Thalmor to get what they want long-term.
Secret worship of gods is not much of a thing in TES. Open worship and belief are heavily linked with a god's influence over mundus. This is a main reason why the dunmer tribunal were so ruthless in eradicating "heresy". The Thalmor need to diminish Lorkhan (basically the patron god of mankind) and his mantler Talos' power as much as possible so that they cannot interfere with their desire to literally destroy physical reality, which they consider a prison that should never have been created.
This "bide our time" thing the Empire is supposedly doing is 100% not a thing.
It is abundantly clear that the Thalmor don't want the Stormcloaks to actually win. They just figure it's a distraction for the Empire which will sow internal division. An independent Skyrim not beholden to the Concordat does not fit in their plans at all. While it would be debatable whether or not Ulfric should have started his rebellion (if one was ignorant of the larger implications of the ban on open Talos worship), his rebellion having already been started, and with TLD being able to decide its fate... the desirability of a Stormcloak victory over an Imperial one in the civil war questline is hardly up for debate.
I just want to say something about this theory, Beside the fact that I am very leaned towards the stromcloaks as my prefered side. Something I noticed throughout both sides of the civil war was that the stormcloak missions always appeared more like that is what would happen or that is what would be cannon. For example, the conversation you hear between Ulfric and Galmar vs the one you hear between Rikke and Tulius, Balgruuf giving a speech about the empire vs fighting balgruuf and his court and hearing his argument whith vignar and how the empire is falling of the right track. And ulfric saying the dragonborn should kill him for a better song vs Tullius talking to ulfric about how this war is what the thalmor wanted and hiw neither side is really good, but the stormcloaks are "right" one side apears way more like it is what would actually happen in order to make the lore better.
I also want to point out about the theory you gave in this video is that the empire knows that the war is helping the thalmor intrests so wouldnt they rather conserve their resources for the elves and end the war in skyrim rather then continue. The garrison can stop the stormcloaks from trying to mess with them while their setting up their forces to prepare for the next great war. And Ulfric would dedicate time to rebuild skyrim so that they can fight the elves in a second great war while if the empire took over skyrim they wouldnt help return it to its fromer glory, they would focus on trying to plan for there attack on the elves and how they can defend Cyrodil, not skyrim espicially since skyrim is to the north, which is not where the elves would come from. If the empire controlled skyim, the thalmor bases there could attack from skyrim, but if the nords had it, the empire wouldnt have to worry about sinve it is bieng defended. And we know that the nords could deafeat the elves because in the "Missing in Action" quest you can fight of all of northwacth keep with only four nord warriors so that proves they can defend.
All in all, it would be mor strategic for the empire to let the stormcloaks take over because the stormcloaks would focus on fixing skyrim while the empire could focus on preparing for another. This is why I believe a stormcloak victory is both cannon and likely. It also the best move for the empire. And it is likely that the stormcloaks would help the empire if a second great war happend. Skyrim will likely be like a bigged version of orsinium, but it is nords instead.
PS. Stormcloaks for life.
Tbat thing with missing in action is dumb, you litterally a dragon soul man, YOU can take that fort alone if you wanted, 5 regular nord can't, maybe 5 companions but even that i think couldn't happen.
Well, that's assuming that Ulfric would allow that to happen. He wanted to invade the Thalmor, which would cause a war. He isn't the smartest, or he's just very power hungry. He killed Torryg, who was a sympathizer for him. He didn't kill Torryg honourably, which caused a civil war. He did this, because he didn't understand the cold war. To say he was not very bright, would be a understatement.
Personally I think that they are MORE likely to say the Dragonborn sided with the Stormcloaks. Purely because then they have a new excuse for a Great War.
They already have an excuse the empire hates the treaty and the thalmor empire was ready for round 2 up until the thalmor sponsored stormcloak civil war began also LBD prob won't join any side
If the Empire wins, in TESVI we'll see the only part of Tamriel still officially resisting the Thalmor (that is if they don't do a big time gap).
If the Stormcloaks win, as a good friend of mine said to me when we were debating over this, since Ulfric is very likely still a Thalmor spy, his rebellion served in creating chaos in a war-preparing Empire, and thus the Thalmor grow stronger.
If the time gap is there but not too big, we can hope to see an Empire ready to get some revenge at the Thalmor, this movement being created from within Highrock and Hammerfell, with the Hunding as its spear.
If we have a huge time lapse, i'd find it great if we have a world rules by the thalmor, everyone was defeated, and now that the redguard can't evolve or advance further, Hunding, and bam a new rebellion, and the kingdoms of man rise to get even with the pointed-ears
I mean in the last quest when you go to Sovngarde you see Ulfric even if you side with the storm cloaks. I thought this was common knowledge that Bethesda had the empire winning the civil war.
No? Ulfric is not in Sovgard if the 'Cloaks win.
Honestly, there should’ve been an ending to the war where you show Ulfric the dossier on him from the Thalmor. If Ulfric saw that, I imagine he and Tullius would work together to figure out how to solve this.
2 points, 1 Skyrim has a powerful army of veterans from the war who played a significant role at the end, game limitations mean you have to upscale both the cities and armies maybe tenfold to get a realistic impression of what the actual Skyrim would be like, 2 Skyrim would be difficult to invade through the pass if Ulfric is victorious in the war, and a new legion raised out of Cyrodil would likely be as green as the northerners started out, you don't mak e new armies out of thin air, you raise them from the pipulace as fresh troops, ie. that force isn 't close to the best of the legions, -the letters are entirely inconclusive. Though they do lebd weight to theories of Imperial victory.
Not really sure how the note really states that the empire is for sure to win for a few reasons. 1. They still need to defend their own land so for the same reasons as before in the civil war, they won't send a huge army to fight the stormcloaks, (especially since they would be in control of all of Skyrim at this point and are continuing to grow stronger) because they are vulnerable to the Thalmor if they leave. 2. a new imperial force appearing in one direction to the south not only means that they can be taken out as long as reinforcements are sent for the Stormcloaks, but that also doesn't mean that they are their best troops being assembled. It could mean many things like a defense for the border, or they simply send only a small army to try and take over which can be taken down easily. 3. Since we never actually see the Empire at its fully potential in Skyrim, it could just be an assumption and bias from people that the Empire is stronger than they actually are. For all we know the Empire in the south could still be really weak and not much of a step up from Skyrim especially since most of the other provinces are independent from the Empire in some way. I think High Rock is the only other province that might be under imperial control besides potentially Skyrim but even then I'm not 100% sure about that. as well as other people saying that the empire is now just a little bit of how powerful it used to be. Also I heard that someone from Bethesda (I think it was Pete Hynes) said that we will not actually know who wins at least not in ES6. Just a rumor I heard about but still something to consider.
A storm cloak victory would be more interesting in my opinion
no
Absolutely not.
@@RuSosan status quo gets boring eventually
that picture of General Tulius is kind of badass :o
wow, that note basically confirms the empire will win, its basically calling out the Ulfric side losing even when you side with them
I honeslty think that they will just say that the side they pick won after the events of TES V, and either not mention the respective leaders deaths or simply say both of them died to avoid conflicts with certain playthroughs
Man this is the first time the UA-cam algorithm worked! New sub right here
Imperial knowledge I know this post is late but I had to say this.
When the game begins the dragon born just crossed pall pass.
And ulfric and the storm cloaks captured there.
What if the avalanches weren't natural.
We know the dragon born just happened to be there ?? As well as ulfric.
So just as game starts there's avalanches that has destroyed the pass
??
Perhaps ulfric destroyed the pass with thuum
He mentioned that the passes are not destroyed, they are simply blocked with snow and have not yet been cleared.
However after the Civil War quest line ends the note in fort neugrad will read differently and say that it is unblocked and a fresh legion is coming up from the south. No matter what we pick there is a legion coming. Bethesda may have cleverly put in something that has decided the Civil War no matter what we pick.
I do not think it was the thuum, I think it was just weather.
You should remember that this farmer army now has the experience of multiple sieges and battles. Even if it is just against another farmer army, these troops are enthused from a victory and generals confident if bethesda chooses the storm cloak side. High morale and a great defensive position, you forget it's the storm cloaks who would be guarding pale pass as it's the imperials who need to get through, I think there's still some debate on the outcome of this. I will give this theory a lot of credit if it turns out true though.
Not surprised considering the fact the Stormcloaks are a small army made up of a few soldiers and farmers, while the Legion is well the Legion.
I always figured either way the imperial empire still has support and soldiers through Tamriel but either way we still have to worry about the thalmor
I thought the season unending would be cannon, resulting in Skyrim splitting into two nations after the war, with the stormcloak holds remaining independent and the imperial holds remaining in the empire
You sound like Farengar
the stormcloaks will still have time to prepare for this legion to attack so they do have some chance and since they would have all of skyrim they would be more powerful against the empire also this note will appear if the dragonborn is on the stormcloaks side and the dragonborn
can command armies of dragons so that give the stormcloaks an even better chance of winning
They should have the Stormcloaks and Imperials create a truce until the Thalmor are defeated, both sides would be happy since Talos worship would likely be permitted once more and the Thalmor are no longer a massive threat. I'd think it would be a way better ending than either of the sides winning the war
Only possible scenario where Ulfric keeps the throne for long is if the Dominion decides to attack the legion before the empire sends his legion to the north, though that's highly unlikely, even an idiot general would wait for the legion to reach it, or they'd have to deal with all the legions plus one more
Well good thing I sided with the Empire then 😶😶
LONG LIVE THE EMPORER LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE THE TRUE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF SKYRIM ALL PROVENCES
I think The Nords should have Skyrim bc they need their own Kingdom and I like The Stormcloaks bc they fight for their Kingdom from being ruled by a Human Empire that bends the knee to The Aldimeri Dominion
Damn I wanted stormcloaks winning
Nah, it's going to be the Stormcloaks and I would confidently bet money on it. Why? Arena ended with Jagar Tharn ruling as an incompetent imposter for years and he weakened the legions. Daggerfall ended with the Empire losing the Numidium. Morrowind they lost their Hlaalu toadies and set up losing the province as a whole. Oblivion, Cyrodiil was devastated and they lost the last Septim heir. And in the time jump, they lost every province except Skyrim. Every game ends with the world overall being saved but the Empire slides closer to the cliff edge. The Empire has been declining for a long, long time and I don't see Skyrim's aftermath suddenly bucking the trend. It would be narratively like a Mad Max film where the good guys win and Max doesn't end up battered and worse off then he was at the start of the movie.
I think you haven't read the Novels.
Just saying a Legion being sent to Skyrim will mean the Empire will win is not realistic at all, the Legion, whilst being better equipped than current Imperial forces in Skyrim still wouldn't likely be the best equipped as the Empire would want to save most of their forces for the Aldmeri Dominion, also the only way to cross into Skyrim from Cyrodill by land is through Falkreath, the heavily forested area of Skyrim through a small mountain pass (Teutoburg anyone?). In addition to this, Skyrim has extremely rough terrain severely limiting the combat effectiveness of any conventional army, the Civil War is way more complex than "oh one legion will solve everything"
The Stormcloaks struggle against the worst the Empire has to toss their way. If by some miracle they 'win', proper Cyrodiilic Legionnaires would cut through them with ease.
It seems like it’s pretty obvious when you consider the logo for Skyrim is the imperial insignia
I feel like the spirit of talos in morrowind kinda confirms the empires fall wether that's to the stormcloaks or not I think they will eventually fall
He doesn't confirm that.
That's why I said kinda confirms not completely confirms
@@Max-wc6zy How does he even ''kinda'' confirm it?
He says "poor emperor don't no how long he's gonna last getting a bit too old, so is the entire empire for that matter I think its time to something new" that's not the exact quote but that's everything I remember also the quote seems like forshadowing to me
@@Max-wc6zy Wulf states specifically how the rulership of the Empire needs a change, and points out how he only considers the Empire has gotten old. He never says he wishes to see it gone.
The change of rulership has happened; the Medes now rule the Empire.
Mr I. Knowledge, Sir! Thank you for this video, I can't believe I didn't see it earlier. It sounds entirely credible and answers pretty much all of my questions about how Bethesda would insert the Skyrim civil war of ES5 into the historical background of ES6. Kudos!
Lul I read this changed note all those years ago and didn't think it mattered :be
As to imperial force being so strong and all that jazz the victory was actually one of those rare cases of putting everything on one card which led Dominion's army which wasn't prepared for such a move to rout, not some turbo superior strategy or fighting capability
the great war make me happy because after the thalmor loss their daedric artifacts, and they get fuck
I think I only played loyal to the Empire once. Played for the Stormcloaks every other play through. I can't bring myself to go with the side that was going to execute you without without being charged with a crime or a trial.
It occurred to me this week that is you look at that situation, and assume that in canon the PC is the Nord guy in the iron helmet in all the promotional materials, it makes a bit of sense that the Imperials would just assume you were with the Stormcloaks. In the context of an insurrection, summarily executing people caught in the company of the insurgents is a fairly standard operating procedure. Doubly so if you're caught out of uniform, because then they'd assume you're a spy, and all bets are off. This breaks down if your PC is Dunmer....
Yeah, I mostly played as a Breton if only for the magic resistance. But I see the point you're making. Thanks.
It took you 6-7 years to figure out it was farmer vs farmer armies...? The hell were you doing in Skyrim then? You see farmers blabbing on about joining X all the time.
What did we expect? Choices that matter? This isnt Dragon Age
In any case, Im happy the Empire launches a big counterattack. It doesnt only happen if you side with the Stormcloaks either, Im pretty sure if you are Imperial but still give Falkreath to the Stormcloaks in Season Unending they will occupy the fort and the new note will be there
Yay glory to the empire now we can destroy the Thalmor
Wouldn’t it be wild if Bethesda just went ahead and split Skyrim for TES6? Like neither side could come to an agreement and the stormcloaks were able to hold down their side of Skyrim and they end up just succeeding from both the empire and the other half of Skyrim. I don’t know if it would be something Bethesda actually would do, but it would be really interesting. A province ripped in two, the Nordic people divided and scattered
I may be a minority in that I wished for a Stormcloak victory. The Empire is on the decline and one day will fall. I realize that Stormcloaks have a bit of a racist tendency, but it is the tendency that makes them more relatable to me. Their people wish to be free of the bloating corpse of an Empire that hasn't realized it's dead yet.
Also, being dragonborn, and becoming the strongest voice amongst the dov, you would have a fair bit of influence on how the dov behave. Coordinated Dragon attacks anyone?
Though I do realize the Empire would likely be better, their casual dismissal and willingness to kill those who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time is too much for me.
Two drunkards in Windhelm who aren't even part of the army doesn't make the Stormcloaks racist. As far as I can see, Ulfric is the only Jarl that has taken in that many refugees from Morrowind into his hold. Sure, living conditions aren't the best, but he's kind of busy fighting a rebellion at the moment.
The slogan "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" doesn't imply that only Nords should be allowed in the land. It simply means that the province is theirs and they should be the ones to rule it, rather than the Empire under Thalmor influence.
You could probably argue that derogatory expression about elves is racist. But I don't think that has to do with race, but rather deep seated historical tensions, both recent and ancient. Nords have been at odds with elves ever since The Night of Tears back in Ysgramor's time. They don't hate elves because they're elves. And they don't hate all elves. They hate their enemies, which happens to be elves most of the time.
Their racist tendencies are relatable to you? Are you saying you're racist?
Jonas, the conditions didn't change even if Ulfric wins. They are still living in a filthy slum. Argonians aren't even allowed to live in the city.
"Skyrim belongs to the Nords" is a pretty messed up. Skyrim run by Nords, will obviously favor Nords, and overall, ignore other races. Shouldn't skyrim be run by those that live in it? We can already see what Nords think of and how they treat other races. Skyrim run by Nords, for Nords wouldn't be a good thing for Dunmer, Orcs, Argonians, or any race besides a Nord.
There are 7 races in Skyrim that can spawn as Imperial soliders, or were once Imperial soldiers; Nords, Imperials, Bretons, Redguards, a Dunmer, an Altmer and two Orcs. Stormcloaks can only spawn as Nords, despite Nords making up ~47% of Skyrims population. Stormcloaks have almost no support from other races.
Delta Every race is racist, Orcs wont trust you to be in the stronghold unless you earned their respect, Same can be said for the dunmer refugees, If Ulfric was racist then how come he lets you join his army as either race? Hell even in Opening scene overhaul (A mod that restores the Original Intro) He even suggest that you can join his cause and you get to escape helgen with him alongside Ralof. Those dunmers in windhelm gotta earn the nords respect if they dont want to be treated as outcasts.
Delta. You really need to state some sources for your claims. To me this all seems like nonsense you pulled out of your ass. What lore states that Nords make out less than half the population in their own province, for instance?
An easy(ish) way to deal with the problem is just to let the player decide what happened through conversation. In KOTOR 2, you have a conversation early on with another character about recent events from the previous game, but both you and that character have sort of been out of it for the past several years. In the conversation, you are able to argue and determine whether or not the PC from KOTOR 1 was male or female, or if they went for the light side or the dark side ending. The choices don't have major impact on the storyline, but it determines which characters you meet. It shouldn't be too hard for Bethesda to let you, through dialogue, decide who won.
"Did you hear about the Skyrim civil war?"
"I did-- good for those Nords, winning their freedom."
"What are you talking about? The Empire won."
"Oh... dang."
It would be pretty easy to write whatever ending out. If SCs won and Imperials are canon victors, you could write either side as a temporary victory with a second invasion, possibly even done by the Thalmor
Well, I don’t think you are right. What is after the civil war, the aldmeri dominion take over? That was their goal with the civil war. (If you look at the document about ulfric that you get during the main quest it says that he was captured by them and they wanted the civil war to weeken the empire)
The empire should just leave Skyrim alone. I know it would've been better had there not been a civil war but the Empire couldn't even stand for themselves in a span of 30 years so what's more time gonna do especially if there's numerous Thalmor Spies? Skyrim is better off independent. Besides, it gives room for the Empire to put more soldiers on the front lines against the Thalmor. Basically, if you can't even regain full power in 30 years, what makes you think you'll be able to take care of another province? Except for trading and such but you get my point. Just leave Skyrim alone, make a truce, and focus on the Thalmor. Clinging on to Skyrim while the Thalmor is at full power is just stupid.
i mean if bethesta dosent go with this they could say that the dominion took over skyrim, as some imperial soldiers say ""The Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim" so they could say that and then it wouldnt really matter who won the civil war
I figured Faramir would start his own UA-cam channel, but I didn't think he was the type to take sides in a conflict. ;)
I stand with that vampire girl in the blue palace, this is still talos's empire.
Bergritte Battle-Born mentions it too she says "season unending war without end"
If you side with the imperials then during General Tullius's speech to the soldiers waiting to fight at the gate to Windham he calls them "Professional Soldiers". As opposed to Ulfirc's rebels. I think that the Emperor put seasoned trained legions in Skyrim, but not enough supplies since they became cut off from the avalanche. The Emperor would need strong legions in skyrim to keep the Thalmor in check in Skyrim so close to the Cyrodiil border.
ES VI will be out in 2037 or the Apocalypse which ever comes first.
Now as everyone knows the Empire has to win because if the Stormys win Skyrim becomes a province of the Dominion . If Skyrim falls so does the Empire . It's just a game but there has to be some logic lol , yes even in a game with magic and dragons lol
...why couldn't we just conquer Skyrim as Dovahkiin, after we stopped Alduin?
My concept: If the Blades are on our side, why couldn't they have made that an option to make the Blades be the new guard for the Dragonborn when usurping the throne of High King? While I stopped working with the Blades after they demanded of me to kill Paarthurnax, it makes sense in my mind that if you work close enough with the Blades, they could be convinced by the Dragonborn to unlock "Secret Option C," and thus conquer Skyrim while kicking out the Legion and squashing the Stormcloaks. The Blades will still help with the dragon threat, but they could use this opportunity to, in a way, honor the legacy of the Blades during the Septim dynasty.
And the more people you've recruited into the Blades? The greater your chances at truly and successfully claiming the throne and the Jagged Crown. You'll run the risk of failing if you don't have a great enough force behind you; that makes sense. But you could also have the option of swaying factions into your favor, once you've committed to taking over Skyrim; this could require incredible feats on the Dragonborn's part, however. "Secret Option C" could have almost been like the Wild Card route in F:NV, but possibly even better...
Just an idea that I feel could have tremendously improved the game.