Proof that MSE + Facemask Actually Works
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Taken from Jaw Hacks Chat #12 w/ Daniel the Pianist
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I am currently using Dr. Ilia’s technique of turning the MSE forward and back and wearing only 12 hours a day with the bow. My orthodontist knows Dr. Ilia and says you can keep the maxilla mobile with this technique. It’s working and I can already see change after 2 weeks. Also, I should mention, I started late with the face-mask during the MSE process and it’s still working.
Is the bow pressing against your neck and chest? How many turns forward and back are you doing with Mse and what kind of changes have you seen?
@@bumba8154 7 turns once a week. Yes, it’s pressing against my chest and forehead
@@bumba8154 my profile has changed. My teeth are further forward. My bite is better and there’s more room for my tongue. I took a profile photo and am noticing distinct changes.
@@desireeparham2189 wow, that’s incredible. How much longer is your treatment, are you class 3?
@@bumba8154 I believe so. I had a fairly severe overbite, and posterior overbite.
Bro, literally at the perfect time I’m researching this right now 🤣🙌
Has anyone tried MSE + (face mask along with BAMP(bone anchored maxillary protraction)?
Basically, in facemask, bands are hooked onto the tubes on the molars.
Instead of that, miniplates are attached to the bone above the teeth and then the bands are hooked on to the mini plates
I stumbled upon a new device that is more effective than tooth-borne anchorage, however unsure if it is more effective than BAMP. It uses palatal plates with a face mask. You can find out more about it in a UA-cam video titled “Treatment effects of maxilla protraction with palatal plates vs conventional tooth-borne anchorage”
That sounds like a great idea at first. However consider tooth roots. You need to put the tads between tooth roots. If the mask pulling at all moves the tads, you could be in serious trouble and potentially kill the tooyh roots and need to remove the whole tooth, do a root canal, and then be in all sorts of trouble. However ive had a similar thought, to somehow anchor a pulling mask aginst the face in a way that could improve how the bones move. I realized pulling just maxilla is hard because of the zygomatic bones also deal with a part of the front of the face. So i wondered if(yes its brutal) putting screws into safe parts(if any) of the zygoma, as well as the maxilla perhaps externally and/or standard internal could lead to faster or better results somehow. Not sure what kind of scars that might leave. And again, not sure if feasible but its a yhought ive also had. Also wondering if there are anchor points that could somehow actually move the maxilla up without major surgery where the fulcrum is at the back. But i imagine short of a lefort 3 that isnt likely. But if it is. Even for just a couple mm it would be worth investigating because that would be sufficient if there proved to be no relapse.
Mike Mew is currently doing a few MSEs with clients.
Will MSE alone bring the upper incisors and jaw forward?
im 18 years old and im wearing the facemask + palatar expansor , i want my treatment to end as soon as possible and I have faith that my class 3 bite can be reversed. I don't really understand the videos since I don't speak English, however I can see that many have been through my case and it makes me feel a little more relieved and I see that there are results
How has your progress been so far?
What is the name of the Facebook Group for MSE please?
Dr. Lipkin says you get better results pulling slightly down and outward with facemask, because there is much less resistance from the bone that way. However, I can't help but ask myself why someone would want to do this unless they have a significant vertical deficiency. But more of the people I see with poor facial development tend to have a vertical excess if anything due to downwards growth. Makes me wonder what the option is for someone with vertical excess but front-to-back deficiency.
I 100% agree, as someone with Craniofacial Dystrophy my face is narrow and long, definitely would be good to shorten a bit but it does make sense that if you do pull slightly upwards their may be some resistance form the bone.
How many milliliters did that face mask move the maxilla forward?
It doesn’t work except for the outlier odd cases. Just go for surgery if maxillary advancement is what you’re looking for.
How do you get this treatment?
Motivational fuel
Hello, where is Dr Lipkin based, or how is his clinic called, is it possible to shedule a consultation? Regards, Bojan
@JawHacks/Ronald, I wonder if MSE is effective for using the facemask without splitting your jaw? Also, have you looked into the issues of cranial strain and how the tightness of the muscles in the neck effects this? For example, the side of my face that is pushed in more is the same side that my neck is super tight. I can feel how tight the tendon is going all the way into my trap when I pull my head away from that. I've heard another UA-cam channel, I forget his name but he has some doctors on there, that say that the craniofacial dystrophy is effected by the tightness, and that my stretching, you put less force on the cranial bones (that are all interconnected), thereby allowing mewing, or other methods, to work more effectively. This might play a roll in why as you get older mewing is less effective insofar as kids are more flexible and adults generally are not unless they stretch a lot.
Interesting how would you counteract that muscle tightness as an adult?
@@umars7425 I've seen videos on it. So, for example, the tightness in the neck, which runs from your occipital bone down the side of your neck, almost near your main artery, can be stretched by simply trying to touch your opposite ear to your shoulder. You will instantly feel the stretch. For example, I'm a side sleeper, mainly on my left side. Based on pics even when I was younger, I can see that my right side is more pronounced, as if the side that I sleep on has been flattened more. And guess which side of my neck is tight as hell? The left, the same side I sleep with my head bended in that direction. So you see, the side sleeping has probably caused muscle tightness since I was a kid, which worked with the craniofacial dystrophy. So, in order to hopefully make progress with Mewing, one needs to stretch that neck out as much as possible so it isn't pulling too much on one side.
@@ex0gen wow that makes a lot of sense thanks for the response, I guess back sleeping and stretching out the tight muscles will make the difference, Iv been a side sleeper my whole life and my right traps I’m pretty sure what cause my facial assymetry aswell
@@umars7425 With back sleeping, you just have to be sure that your Mewing is solid and automatic, so that your mouth doesn't drop open as you sleep. If this is a problem, you can tape your mouth shut (I've not ever done this, I was never a mouth breather - my issue was that when I was a kid, I never kept the back third of my tongue up, so, predictably, I have decent facial projection, but the angle of my jaws isn't great, and there is a very slight, bend in my nose that looks like a "bump" but if you look closely you can see its actually the bend, which, if very pronounced leads to that hook nose effect. Luckily for me, it's barely noticeable, but to the trained eye, it's visible. If you look at the side of your asymmetry (look at it right now) and compare the tightness in your neck, I bet the side of your face that is less pronounced (check bones, jaw not as wide, eye may droop or slant downward slightly, or be located lower (and have more showing of the lower white of the eye) that is worse corresponds to the tighter side of your neck. These structural asymmetries go hand in hand with the muscular pattern, as well as how the skull is molded as we rest.
do we know what pull angle he was using with the protraction gear? Is it parallel to the occlusal plane, below it or above it?
How much?
Both , dot A, and Nasolabial angle get better when incisors move forward. So this is not enough to be proof of maxillary protraction :/
Could similar effects be produced with a toothborne expander and facemask in people under 20?
MSE apart to extend horizontally the maxillary would it make it grow forward?
Is it fair to say this will advance over years in terms of precision and predictability for safer expansion of adults ?
I doubt it. This has been used for 50+ years. The only thing is if we will start using it , if the research has to prove it works in adults or even teenagers, since right now - conventional orthodontics teaches that moving upper jaw forward makes sense up to 10-12 years of age.
How long do people wear these face masks for? Seems like it would be embarrassing to wear this in public
Yeah they suck. Supposed to wear as much as possible.
I have the choice to proceed with MARPE and a face mask or a 2 piece lefort surgery. Tough decision I am not sure what to make at age 25.
What did you end up getting?
@@doaanassar4668 I got MARPE, no facemask. I’m done expanding and am honestly surprised how well it went. Nasal breathing has improved a ton. Can’t wait to get the appliance out and restore my tongue function.
Does the post include what type of headgear they use for protraction? I doubt it's traditional head and chin one
Head and chin headgear moves maxilla back. This is the opposite , standard deler Mask. Conventional orthodontics teaches us to use it up to 10-12 years (depending on growth and gender), because maxilla stops growing forward sooner then mandibule does.
Hi. So who is the Dr. using MSE and facemask please? Do you have contact details.
That's Dr. Ilya Lipkin but there are some others too.
Do you recommend this for a teenager who wants to grow in there wisdom teeth that don't fit but not yet formed with the roots.. are there any side effects with this? I heard it'll make it forehead or chin go back I don't want that
I don't ever recommend the facemask you see in the thumbnail. Bow and Crane are better. I can't comment on your treatment bro but definitely consider seeing an MSE provider.
@@JawHackswhat is bow and crane
Can you use a face mask even though you don’t have an underbite…I have a slight cross bite
If you have cross bite MSE can halp
Can this combination of MSE and face mask correct a skeletal underbite in a 22 year old male like me?
Mines about half a centimeter or so.
But that’s only in the front teeth, the rest seal when the jaw is closed, although one side less so than the other.
I honestly don’t care if i have to wear whatever face mask they give me for 12-18 hours straight, I will do it if it means I don’t have to have jaw surgery.
Which is something I am admittedly a bit terrified of.
I have the same situation as you (only I'm 20). We'll wait for an answer)
How can we join the MSE user group on facebook?
can you get mse done in the UK? if so how much does it all cost roughly 😳also if i was to get the get bottom teeth realigned to fit with expanded top teeth
The only person I know of is Mike Mew, and trying to get treatment from him is like trying to win the lottery.
Ofc you can! Almost every single orthodontist does maxillary expansion.
As for your question about bottom teeth, it is done when you have posterior cross bite, so it widens your upper jaw and expands your upper arch to fit with the lower.
i’m 16 is there anyway mewing can help move my maxilla a little bit more forward without surgery??
yes ofc with hard mewing .
@@yusra3994even soft which is safer
Bro do you thin 2 elastic bands of 6 and a half oz are enough, when I use 4 the skin of my chin and forehead gets really irritated.
I´m using 2 elastic bands of 14 oz each one.
@@jeremyschonberger554 wow, thats a lot, how do you manage redness and irritation on the chin and forehead
@@jeremyschonberger554 good way to make yourself crazy
@@jorgebernal6614 Jorge, asumo que hablas español. Honestamente, no me molesta. Actualmente voy 5 semanas de tratamiento. Al principio si fue algo molesto, pero despues me acostumbre. Cabe destacar que yo uso el modelo Bow, que apoya sobre el pecho y frente.
@@jeremyschonberger554 Ah ok, hasta mientras intentare con 1 banda elastica por lado y si en unos meses no veo diferencia se subo
I am 25 and never got wisdom teeth is that normal?
It can be for some people. My husband never got any wisdom teeth. Meanwhile, I had 5, but they were all removed 😢
Some folks are born with no wisdom teeth.
do face mask work for overbotes?
Wondering if you had implants after all the expansion ron
Dental implants? No. Never had any kind of implants ever.