i am not much of the noise or so but what i see using portals is the quickest way to lift your truck or vehicle leaving the stock design of your front and rear axles..
There are trade-offs with both. Helical gears produce axial force which causes significant wear on a daily driver in a portal gear. The "transmission" example isn't an apples to apples comparison because transmissions are designed to buffer axial torque thrust. A more relative comparison is quick change rear ends. You can run these with helical "street" gears, however this generates significant wear on the housing and bearings/bushings due to the axial thrust. Straight cut gears will have less maintenance and the system will last longer. So you have a choice of wear or noise.
@@JoeRocca-zf2el You must have mis-read my post. I used a quick-change rear end as my comparison which is practically identical in function as a portal. Helical gears have axial thrust (meaning torque is transferred outward on its axis) no matter how to cut it. This generates a significant amount of load on the bearings as well as the housing (which is aluminum in this product). Imagine being in low lock, 1st gear, 40" tires trying to climb a rock. With helical gears all of that torque load is transferred outwards to keep the helical gears connected. The only thing holding it is an aluminum housing. It will fail.
Its the same with our rear gears on our race cars! There's pro's and cons with anything when you start building 💩 to do stuff it was never meant to do! LOL My wife thinks I like to tear my stuff up when in all honesty is that I got my Azz drug and losing sleep until my Dragy says I've got a new PB! I CONFESS ITS AN ADDICTION!!!!
@@JoeRocca-zf2el You're making a valid point; whatever the gear ratios etc are, the wheel will spin at around 700+ rpm so that's the speed of the lower gears in the portal box, and the upper one will spin that x1.25 so not much more.
@@BroncBustertx personally i think portals are a bad option all together. in my mind increasing the number of moving parts is almost always a bad decision.
Pete Jackson geardrive is a great example of the noise that comes with spur gears. With that said, most people don't typically care about noise if they are willing to spend that kind of money to do this serious of offroading. Portals are cool and a great system, but most people will not spend the money for them. This is a good discussion, but once again, this will still be a personal preferrance when it comes to the purchase. Much like Holley vs. Edelbrock, or Chevy vs. Ford.
Imho without question helical or herringbone cut gears will run quieter than a similar profile straight cut gear. On yhe issue of quietness, how quiet is quiet enough? I dont think any of us are worried about stealth level quietness, unlike a submarine where noise kills. So do a side by side comparison. Measure the the sound level of each. I suspect that if pne dig deep enough you would find both are avceptable, perhaps the biggest difference being lift.
For $25K I would expect them to be running a herringbone or double helix cut on their gears, and if not, I would expect them to at least capitalize on that considerable axial thrust with torque meters for each hub. Also, where's the CTIS?
I hear you guys just bashing 74 weld. I have seen then in person. They are completely silent. They came out with the Bronco before the Jeep or Toyota, not the other way around.
Oh, brother, I beg to disagree! Unless Quinn was lying on his podcast that he said the other way around. He said and I quote “we developed these on the Jeep and Toyota and spent a month adapting to Bronco”
www.snailtrail4x4.com/410-74weld/ listen for yourself. I really have nothing against 74 in fact I think they have a good product I just think he needs to quit being dishonest with people.
@@BroncBustertx this entire podcast seemed like "74 weld is great, but.......". It didn't seemed like you're uneducated about the 74 weld portals and why they designed it that way. Disclaimer, I do really like Titus Portals. There's many reasons why they ended up with straight cut gears, mostly because of heat and axial thrust under high load, high speed, under long duration. I currently run Humvee Portals on my truck right now. My 10k rated Portals run straight cut and my 12k rated ones run helical cut. At highway speeds my 12k Portals run considerably hotter then my 10k Portals. At first my 10k are silent, until they hit close to 100,000 miles. They did get loader, mostly under braking load. Thinking of it, the same think with the 12k, but they stayed silent unless braking until I moved the braked from inboard to out board, fixed. I'm thinking about returning to straight cut due to the axial thrust load and the additional heat build up in the helical cut gears.
For all the lead up to these Tibus portals and all the talk about how much better than 74 they are, we better see them survive some serious bronc busting otherwise your street cred is toast dude
This is an interesting discussion. I dont have portals or a bronco. One thing that i think would be interesting is comparing the 2 side by side or a diagram of the 2. If you're comparing one to the other, i suppose it could be argued that the 74 weld is stronger even with its straight cut gears if you compare the actual size or count of the gears in each. It sounds like you guys are saying the tibus is the superior product for strength and longevity i think it would be interesting to see the 2 side by side maybe? I feel like saying if its good enough for racing its good enough for daily driving is a very douchey statement i cant really think of a better way to sum up that statement. I feel like someone whos never raced would make a statement like that. I have some experience with racing both dirtbikes especially pitbikes and in cars/offroad and your constantly taking stuff apart and doing maintenance and replacing things after a low number of hours and changing oil after every race etc.. you have parts with high performance and limited lifespan. Then on the other hand some race components are much better than daily driver components i have some "race" performance parts on my jeep but its built for long term reliability its also a high maintenance vehicle. I guess if i were to choose between these 2 products I'd look at the cost to run and what i can use it for and relative strength like is it strong enough it doesn't matter which is stronger necessarily as long as its strong enough i dont typically say that but its true. I the 74 weld product is going on a street driven vehicle and it needs maintenance like oil changed quite often and inspected I'd lean towards the tibus. Id be upset if i had to constantly maintain portals then they started to howl louder and louder. Has anyone proven you can drive the straight cut gears on road reliably for a reasonable amount of time between maintenance intervals? Maybe they both last just fine with similar maintenance but one is just louder and maybe someone wouldn't mind louder if it really is a little stronger? Then maybe one has a feature or two thats better or is more refined. From the discussion it sounds like tibus is the more refined model. Anyways this was really interesting and even though i dont own a bronco or have plans for portals i would enjoy seeing more on this topic i think its very interesting. Id maybe even look and see what design volvo or Mercedes uses in their portals if its relevant i feel those those 2 companies have a lot of experience with portals.
@@billymurff3124 it has been a whole year. They still do not have one set in the US. I’ve spoken with the dealer and it appears they may not be able to. The city they make them in basically destroyed.
I appreciate this video, but from my perspective you're coming at it from the wrong angle. I have heard videos of the 74Weld solution, and it's ten thousand times less noisy than the straight cut gearbox on my vintage race car. In my opinion, the noise (though yes it is a factor) is the least of the issues between these two designs. I would like to discuss strength, longevity, packaging, ease of maintenance, installation, performance etc. It seems like helical cut gears come out on top in that discussion as well, but I'd like to understand why. Also I feel like a lot of this discussion when using a transmission as a point of reference is misleading, or even irrelevant because the purpose of a transmission is to allow the user to change the gears. A portal has no such function, and should therefore be approached as a completely different engineering problem. Which I think both companies have done, but the discussion just seems stuck on it. I really love this video though, thanks for spending the time and putting it together. Austin is the man.
A proper test would be to include the Werewolf as well as the original Mercedes Benz 4x4 squared portal axles on the G wagon. Any aftermarket portal axles must prove themselves to be better than the original available from the manufacturer. Otherwise the opinion is just hanging in the air with no basis of comparison.
Interesting but I really think that you need to put your money where your mouth your mouth is on a comparison the 74Welds don’t make any noise going down the road and for you to say one is better than the other without an actual side by side comparison just a computer mock up is bogus. And to use a Honda transmission as a comparison or reference is ludicrous.
The Unimog has had portals for a long time. It makes me wonder what the evolution of their portals have been as the Unimog has so many different variances through the years. I am guessing the Zetros is basically a scaled up Unimog, if it even has portals . . .
@@ipstacks11 that is a great question and I can tell you the answer to that just like the evolution of gears and transmissions it went from old straight, cut gears to the new modern technology of helical gears. He gears becomes an important part of making it a modern vehicle that is quiet while also having the strength that you have in the old style gears. Hopefully that helps answer your question. in addition, technology to be able to do a Bolt on portal as opposed to being part of the drivetrain
If companies are making Portals for lots of vehicles why then aren't they producing casts? Machining every single part just seems wasteful. But I guess they are passing the cost on to the consumer because the consumer is paying the price. Just seems a huge waste and limits the number who buy Portals.
(these statements about being loud are) crap. not good enough for the road? portals are for large tires. the tires will drown you out way before the portals.
@@BroncBustertx i wasnt bashing these guys products, i was saying that yall saying they are too loud for the road was crap. youll definitely hear the tires over the portals at any speed.
The future will be 4 wheel hub electric motors . No diffs. No axles . Torque steer and pivot. All the advantages of EVs (go under water , no power loss at elevation, less brush fire risk no hot exhaust , no t case shifting , no transmission gears ⚙️, no reverse gear , no drive shaft or oil pan to hit, regen braking, no air filter , no sounds scaring away deer 🦌, ultimate silence, run ac or heater parked , no “idle “ engine ).
Sounds like an EV fantasy to me. Maybe before you lose all of your off-road freedoms, a self induced chemical reaction and fire will finish off your rig.
Marks 4WD (AUS), Werewolftech are excellent world-wide proven portals as well, both have been fitted to literally thousands of vehicles.
i am not much of the noise or so but what i see using portals is the quickest way to lift your truck or vehicle leaving the stock design of your front and rear axles..
There are trade-offs with both. Helical gears produce axial force which causes significant wear on a daily driver in a portal gear. The "transmission" example isn't an apples to apples comparison because transmissions are designed to buffer axial torque thrust. A more relative comparison is quick change rear ends. You can run these with helical "street" gears, however this generates significant wear on the housing and bearings/bushings due to the axial thrust. Straight cut gears will have less maintenance and the system will last longer. So you have a choice of wear or noise.
Maybe on some designs but Tibus has more than 150,000 miles without being rebuilt.
@@JoeRocca-zf2el You must have mis-read my post. I used a quick-change rear end as my comparison which is practically identical in function as a portal. Helical gears have axial thrust (meaning torque is transferred outward on its axis) no matter how to cut it. This generates a significant amount of load on the bearings as well as the housing (which is aluminum in this product). Imagine being in low lock, 1st gear, 40" tires trying to climb a rock. With helical gears all of that torque load is transferred outwards to keep the helical gears connected. The only thing holding it is an aluminum housing. It will fail.
Its the same with our rear gears on our race cars! There's pro's and cons with anything when you start building 💩 to do stuff it was never meant to do! LOL My wife thinks I like to tear my stuff up when in all honesty is that I got my Azz drug and losing sleep until my Dragy says I've got a new PB! I CONFESS ITS AN ADDICTION!!!!
@@MRR-qv3bw definitely an addiction
@@JoeRocca-zf2el You're making a valid point; whatever the gear ratios etc are, the wheel will spin at around 700+ rpm so that's the speed of the lower gears in the portal box, and the upper one will spin that x1.25 so not much more.
Show us where 74 weld hurt you. 😢
Why is this portrayed as hurt? Just helping to set the facts straight
@@BroncBustertx personally i think portals are a bad option all together. in my mind increasing the number of moving parts is almost always a bad decision.
@petejones6827 - Obviously you don't offroad. Having more clearance of the differential is the whole purpose of portals.
@@jameseroh6544 NO SHIT lol i thought they made it go faster.
@@jameseroh6544 straight axles have been getting the job done alot longer than portals my friend
Pete Jackson geardrive is a great example of the noise that comes with spur gears. With that said, most people don't typically care about noise if they are willing to spend that kind of money to do this serious of offroading. Portals are cool and a great system, but most people will not spend the money for them. This is a good discussion, but once again, this will still be a personal preferrance when it comes to the purchase. Much like Holley vs. Edelbrock, or Chevy vs. Ford.
Most of the people wanting portals want to retain the quite comfortable ride. But yes I agree for some noise is irrelevant.
Imho without question helical or herringbone cut gears will run quieter than a similar profile straight cut gear. On yhe issue of quietness, how quiet is quiet enough? I dont think any of us are worried about stealth level quietness, unlike a submarine where noise kills. So do a side by side comparison. Measure the the sound level of each. I suspect that if pne dig deep enough you would find both are avceptable, perhaps the biggest difference being lift.
For $25K I would expect them to be running a herringbone or double helix cut on their gears, and if not, I would expect them to at least capitalize on that considerable axial thrust with torque meters for each hub. Also, where's the CTIS?
I hear you guys just bashing 74 weld. I have seen then in person. They are completely silent. They came out with the Bronco before the Jeep or Toyota, not the other way around.
Oh, brother, I beg to disagree! Unless Quinn was lying on his podcast that he said the other way around. He said and I quote “we developed these on the Jeep and Toyota and spent a month adapting to Bronco”
www.snailtrail4x4.com/410-74weld/ listen for yourself. I really have nothing against 74 in fact I think they have a good product I just think he needs to quit being dishonest with people.
@@BroncBustertx I must be mistaken
@@BroncBustertx this entire podcast seemed like "74 weld is great, but.......". It didn't seemed like you're uneducated about the 74 weld portals and why they designed it that way. Disclaimer, I do really like Titus Portals. There's many reasons why they ended up with straight cut gears, mostly because of heat and axial thrust under high load, high speed, under long duration. I currently run Humvee Portals on my truck right now. My 10k rated Portals run straight cut and my 12k rated ones run helical cut. At highway speeds my 12k Portals run considerably hotter then my 10k Portals. At first my 10k are silent, until they hit close to 100,000 miles. They did get loader, mostly under braking load. Thinking of it, the same think with the 12k, but they stayed silent unless braking until I moved the braked from inboard to out board, fixed. I'm thinking about returning to straight cut due to the axial thrust load and the additional heat build up in the helical cut gears.
@@BroncBustertx oh, by the way I did like the video
For all the lead up to these Tibus portals and all the talk about how much better than 74 they are, we better see them survive some serious bronc busting otherwise your street cred is toast dude
I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised Ron. Let’s get a set on yours
This is an interesting discussion. I dont have portals or a bronco. One thing that i think would be interesting is comparing the 2 side by side or a diagram of the 2. If you're comparing one to the other, i suppose it could be argued that the 74 weld is stronger even with its straight cut gears if you compare the actual size or count of the gears in each. It sounds like you guys are saying the tibus is the superior product for strength and longevity i think it would be interesting to see the 2 side by side maybe?
I feel like saying if its good enough for racing its good enough for daily driving is a very douchey statement i cant really think of a better way to sum up that statement. I feel like someone whos never raced would make a statement like that. I have some experience with racing both dirtbikes especially pitbikes and in cars/offroad and your constantly taking stuff apart and doing maintenance and replacing things after a low number of hours and changing oil after every race etc.. you have parts with high performance and limited lifespan. Then on the other hand some race components are much better than daily driver components i have some "race" performance parts on my jeep but its built for long term reliability its also a high maintenance vehicle.
I guess if i were to choose between these 2 products I'd look at the cost to run and what i can use it for and relative strength like is it strong enough it doesn't matter which is stronger necessarily as long as its strong enough i dont typically say that but its true. I the 74 weld product is going on a street driven vehicle and it needs maintenance like oil changed quite often and inspected I'd lean towards the tibus. Id be upset if i had to constantly maintain portals then they started to howl louder and louder. Has anyone proven you can drive the straight cut gears on road reliably for a reasonable amount of time between maintenance intervals? Maybe they both last just fine with similar maintenance but one is just louder and maybe someone wouldn't mind louder if it really is a little stronger? Then maybe one has a feature or two thats better or is more refined. From the discussion it sounds like tibus is the more refined model.
Anyways this was really interesting and even though i dont own a bronco or have plans for portals i would enjoy seeing more on this topic i think its very interesting. Id maybe even look and see what design volvo or Mercedes uses in their portals if its relevant i feel those those 2 companies have a lot of experience with portals.
Very good feedback thank you
Why did you not mention werewolf portals?
Because they are not a viable option.
@BroncBustertx how so?
@@billymurff3124 it has been a whole year. They still do not have one set in the US. I’ve spoken with the dealer and it appears they may not be able to. The city they make them in basically destroyed.
Umm…. They have dealers in the US. There’s Oregon, Arizona (Representative), and even one in Canada.
Any chance you could actually measure the sound on a Bronco with both systems.
@@fredbonjour5443 bring me a Bronco with the other portals I’m down to do this.
I appreciate this video, but from my perspective you're coming at it from the wrong angle. I have heard videos of the 74Weld solution, and it's ten thousand times less noisy than the straight cut gearbox on my vintage race car. In my opinion, the noise (though yes it is a factor) is the least of the issues between these two designs. I would like to discuss strength, longevity, packaging, ease of maintenance, installation, performance etc. It seems like helical cut gears come out on top in that discussion as well, but I'd like to understand why.
Also I feel like a lot of this discussion when using a transmission as a point of reference is misleading, or even irrelevant because the purpose of a transmission is to allow the user to change the gears. A portal has no such function, and should therefore be approached as a completely different engineering problem. Which I think both companies have done, but the discussion just seems stuck on it.
I really love this video though, thanks for spending the time and putting it together. Austin is the man.
Thank you for taking the time to watch it and give feedback that is very helpful
A proper test would be to include the Werewolf as well as the original Mercedes Benz 4x4 squared portal axles on the G wagon. Any aftermarket portal axles must prove themselves to be better than the original available from the manufacturer. Otherwise the opinion is just hanging in the air with no basis of comparison.
V-cut gears
yes again great info accurate info and real world info
Interesting but I really think that you need to put your money where your mouth your mouth is on a comparison the 74Welds don’t make any noise going down the road and for you to say one is better than the other without an actual side by side comparison just a computer mock up is bogus. And to use a Honda transmission as a comparison or reference is ludicrous.
I’ve offered they haven’t responded. They don’t have any customers on the road so????
The Unimog has had portals for a long time. It makes me wonder what the evolution of their portals have been as the Unimog has so many different variances through the years. I am guessing the Zetros is basically a scaled up Unimog, if it even has portals . . .
@@ipstacks11 that is a great question and I can tell you the answer to that just like the evolution of gears and transmissions it went from old straight, cut gears to the new modern technology of helical gears. He gears becomes an important part of making it a modern vehicle that is quiet while also having the strength that you have in the old style gears. Hopefully that helps answer your question. in addition, technology to be able to do a Bolt on portal as opposed to being part of the drivetrain
If companies are making Portals for lots of vehicles why then aren't they producing casts? Machining every single part just seems wasteful. But I guess they are passing the cost on to the consumer because the consumer is paying the price. Just seems a huge waste and limits the number who buy Portals.
It’s actually in the works. I should have casts for Bronco soon
(these statements about being loud are) crap. not good enough for the road? portals are for large tires. the tires will drown you out way before the portals.
I strongly disagree! I drive mine everywhere. Already 6,000 miles
@@BroncBustertx i wasnt bashing these guys products, i was saying that yall saying they are too loud for the road was crap. youll definitely hear the tires over the portals at any speed.
@@TheRowdyJ disagree
@@BroncBustertx you really think youre going to hear 74weld portals over 40" boggers?
@@TheRowdyJ who in the hell puts 40” Boggers on a daily?? You do realize 99% of Bronco owners want a daily right?
The future will be 4 wheel hub electric motors . No diffs. No axles . Torque steer and pivot. All the advantages of EVs (go under water , no power loss at elevation, less brush fire risk no hot exhaust , no t case shifting , no transmission gears ⚙️, no reverse gear , no drive shaft or oil pan to hit, regen braking, no air filter , no sounds scaring away deer 🦌, ultimate silence, run ac or heater parked , no “idle “ engine ).
That’s no fun!!
Sounds like an EV fantasy to me. Maybe before you lose all of your off-road freedoms, a self induced chemical reaction and fire will finish off your rig.
EV will not be a viable option for actual off-roading. You 400mi range is on a freeway. With elevation changes and heat you'll be down to 60mi.
@shabobidhuffy Do you need me to type a rebuttal of your thoughts about so called pros of electric?!?!!
@@cjfazio3012 even if you did, I probably wouldn’t pay attention because I drive one on and off Road.
How much was tibus kit for the bronco
They are 24,990