Outlier Database: outlierdb.com/ Link to Instructional: outlierdb.com/resource/6654f2d944c89156fdd773c1 Membership includes the first ever BJJ Chat Bot, my instructional on passing half guard ($97 value) and access to the discord with over 1,000 jiu jitsu nerds just like you.
Here is the UA-cam link for anyone interested. Greg has so much to offer to the jiu jitsu community. I learned so much from this conversation ua-cam.com/video/AecDIiEIaE8/v-deo.html
Deadre is fantastic but Ethan has tons of experience and the benefit of training with some of the best in the biz right now. Very interested to see Daendre's career in the future, I think he's got alot of potential.
I agree. Both of the corbe bros do. But I think they gotta do more super fights or go train with the best guys because if not I think they might just be stuck at “has a lot of potential” level until their age gets too old. We saw that with josh Saunders man’s a monster but he never knew what the best of the bests felt like until Gordon. Iron sharpens iron for sure I think these dudes need to step it up more to reach the next level
Pretty misleading comparison. Ecological things are always happening, even during traditional / dead drilling. There is no way to not be ecological in some way. It more exists on a spectrum of what practice can be more representative (live) while permitting solution spaces that are slices of the information. Live rolls (highly representative) have a ton of information, and there are signals in that information that can be accessed to be exploited by the performers. CLA with games is more effective (but less representative) because it guides attention to those signals and constrains to afford. I believe the CLA is the most effective method to accrue experience in grappling in the shortest amounts of time. Prescription (less representative) is useful in that it does direct attention, and provide solutions, but it has many deep pitfalls. The downsides of dead drilling are that it assumes a hypothetically deterministic system, lacks answers for the information exchanged during a live environment, and takes up a lot of time. Also, the human memory is quite limited and easily overtasked, and the prescriptive approach does tend to overload with words and details that sound good but ultimately can be lost to short term memory limits. Why dont coaches go learn about motor skill learning, dynamic systems, ecological dynamics, and how humans learn? Even just language of coaching can go a really long way ( Nick Winkelmann). Perception action and cognizing are always happening, and the environment is always giving information. The ecological approach ( as used by social media jiujitsu communities) is really just referring to the coaches understanding of how to construct those environments for their class to gain experience in.
@pninnan because they still use the information processing approach. And the 10,000 rep rule. I know black belts who don't even understand how their students learn movement. Shoot, there are personal trainers who understand movement and progression better than a lot of "black" belts.
@@AN043V3Rdoes lacking the understanding to articulate these concepts disqualify someone from being a black belt? Isn’t more about the application? I understand when it comes to instructors…
@daniellemons23 No, I agree 100%. Its application is far more important than its articulation. But, there are so many "instructors" out there with "black belts" that have little to no understanding of grappling. Many times, they demonstrate a "move" but don't understand any of the nuances of it or how it may emerge in practice.
I think there's actually a IG post where Ethan shows how to pass the guard this way and Gordon commented in hate mode that it exposes his legs the exact way you're describing 😅
Why is Ethan such a stand out for all the wrong reasons? He is past of the b team but refutes camera often, loses often, or wins and no one really knows. I know I don’t love him like the rest. Almost dislike him but don’t know why.
I like him because he still goes for rnc like Josef. I think that alone is pretty good. Has pressure leg lock defense not rolling leg lock defense. Sometimes winning doesn't define if someone is entertaining or interesting or worth...studying or something.
I prefer psychological jiu jitsu. It’s purely based around the thought of doing 90% mental reps and only 10% physical training. Ive been seeing great results on my white belts. Thoughts??
Focusing on all aspects is what creates guys like gordon and mica. Just an old school approach or eco approach will leave holes in your game. An eco approach is more usable at a high level, but you still need drills and movements based on the newest or most efficient ways to execute moves.
@@timothycarey3883 if u only train 10 minutes a day it will lessen your chance of injury. If u just watch Danahar enter the system instructionals you will improve 10 fold with less mileage on the body
I wouldn't refer to the opposite approach to ecological as "illogical". I would refer to it as "information processing" like the literature suggests for accuracy. Also I don't think anyone in BJJ purely uses information processing unless they just never spar.
Thanks! I like the side-by-side from different positions seated/standing but the same arm drag or slide-by is being performed. Move mirroring is an nteresting concept or like to teach if you get a sub you have to have the same flow of moves mirrored back at you by your opponent so both understand how it was got or something. Great video.
I think the people who use ecological training as their main focus will quickly plateau. The people who will makes leaps in their jujitsu are the innovators; who make things.
I took a seminar from him and was able to feel his top pressure in person. From the “split squat” passing he does the dude feels like a truck is on top of you.
Yo, a favor to ask. Please omit the flickering transitions between scenes, many of us are extremely sensitive to flickering light due to getting thumped in the head. Otherwise; great edit!
@@michaelswann9849 but he was already a black belt and high level competitor. Which earned learning from the good traditional method. So you can’t say he developed his game through the ecological approach. Now if someone had spent their whole career training just under the ecological method that would be a true test.
Of course brother, in order to capture the leg, You need to lower your level (clear the heads) manage to get the hands out of your way and finally avoid the sprawl (hips) bye getting in with good posture ( your shoulders aligned with your hips )
Hand defence is a downblock or frame that prevents your opponent getting to your leg in the first place. A whizzer is not hand defence in the way they talk about in this vid, as your opponent has already completed a successful shot and captured your leg
Great breakdown. “Ecological” is a bugaboo of mine. It’s marketing. It’s different, yes, but every good gym is different from every other good gym. The other ones don’t relentlessly brand their differences with pseudo-intellectual terms and disrespect the rest of the world of hardcore gyms who, incidentally, they can’t beat, or at least they cannot beat at anywhere approaching rate of success they would have to to justify their culty rhetoric.
@@Unit_6227_Drilling_Experiments I think it has to do with what the coach expects and promotes. If he’s catering to hobbyist/families first because he wants more members now, he’s not going to drive like a competitive coach because that scares hobbyists off. Gym owners who take the hardcore competitive road often struggle financially for a bunch of years bc the clientele is smaller and you work more, and often top competitors don’t pay that well. But in the long run if he makes champs the gym name will get big and affiliates can open up and do a bunch of family gyms and funnel any hardcore guys they end up with to the big gym a few times a year. Ambitious bjj players at hobbyist/family gyms have to find a partner to drill/train with outside class. I think it’s less the type of training and more the pace/drive of the whole thing.
@@joehiggs4349theres definitely an awkward limbo between the Champs or more serious guys thinking dynamic resistance needs taught a lesson so you now you're in a deathmatch and the new ones who are like no we can't do that or slow down and relax. I get what youre saying.
Outlier Database: outlierdb.com/
Link to Instructional: outlierdb.com/resource/6654f2d944c89156fdd773c1
Membership includes the first ever BJJ Chat Bot, my instructional on passing half guard ($97 value) and access to the discord with over 1,000 jiu jitsu nerds just like you.
I recommend everyone check out the interview Josh and Jake did with Greg Souders on the 1800 BJJ HELP podcast. It was fantastic
Here is the UA-cam link for anyone interested. Greg has so much to offer to the jiu jitsu community. I learned so much from this conversation ua-cam.com/video/AecDIiEIaE8/v-deo.html
I agree this was a great interview, a lot more comprehensive for the player . Most of the interviews out there with Greg are geared towards coaches
Deadre is fantastic but Ethan has tons of experience and the benefit of training with some of the best in the biz right now. Very interested to see Daendre's career in the future, I think he's got alot of potential.
I agree. Both of the corbe bros do. But I think they gotta do more super fights or go train with the best guys because if not I think they might just be stuck at “has a lot of potential” level until their age gets too old. We saw that with josh Saunders man’s a monster but he never knew what the best of the bests felt like until Gordon. Iron sharpens iron for sure I think these dudes need to step it up more to reach the next level
Corbe has been training for 15 years
That Gordon back take on Romulo is so good, I’ve watched it 100 times
really hope ethan can win adcc, dude has been grinding, rooting for all the simple men 💪🏼
💪🏼
Pretty misleading comparison. Ecological things are always happening, even during traditional / dead drilling.
There is no way to not be ecological in some way. It more exists on a spectrum of what practice can be more representative (live) while permitting solution spaces that are slices of the information. Live rolls (highly representative) have a ton of information, and there are signals in that information that can be accessed to be exploited by the performers. CLA with games is more effective (but less representative) because it guides attention to those signals and constrains to afford. I believe the CLA is the most effective method to accrue experience in grappling in the shortest amounts of time. Prescription (less representative) is useful in that it does direct attention, and provide solutions, but it has many deep pitfalls. The downsides of dead drilling are that it assumes a hypothetically deterministic system, lacks answers for the information exchanged during a live environment, and takes up a lot of time. Also, the human memory is quite limited and easily overtasked, and the prescriptive approach does tend to overload with words and details that sound good but ultimately can be lost to short term memory limits. Why dont coaches go learn about motor skill learning, dynamic systems, ecological dynamics, and how humans learn? Even just language of coaching can go a really long way ( Nick Winkelmann).
Perception action and cognizing are always happening, and the environment is always giving information.
The ecological approach ( as used by social media jiujitsu communities) is really just referring to the coaches understanding of how to construct those environments for their class to gain experience in.
Thank you for this.
Most jiu-jitsu practitioners don't truly understand motor development or skill acquisition.
@@AN043V3Rwhat makes you think most bjj practitioners don’t understand this? How could you possibly know this?
@pninnan because they still use the information processing approach. And the 10,000 rep rule. I know black belts who don't even understand how their students learn movement. Shoot, there are personal trainers who understand movement and progression better than a lot of "black" belts.
@@AN043V3Rdoes lacking the understanding to articulate these concepts disqualify someone from being a black belt? Isn’t more about the application? I understand when it comes to instructors…
@daniellemons23 No, I agree 100%. Its application is far more important than its articulation. But, there are so many "instructors" out there with "black belts" that have little to no understanding of grappling. Many times, they demonstrate a "move" but don't understand any of the nuances of it or how it may emerge in practice.
Haven't seen the match but that hip control and passing he was doing at the end looked like it came straight from Craig Jones power ride.
wait so im confused... whats the difference between illogical vs ecological jiujitsu?
I think there's actually a IG post where Ethan shows how to pass the guard this way and Gordon commented in hate mode that it exposes his legs the exact way you're describing 😅
Solid analysis here man. Been having marginal success passing the secondary in 50, but that lachlan clip was really helpful
Why is Ethan such a stand out for all the wrong reasons? He is past of the b team but refutes camera often, loses often, or wins and no one really knows. I know I don’t love him like the rest. Almost dislike him but don’t know why.
I like him because he still goes for rnc like Josef. I think that alone is pretty good. Has pressure leg lock defense not rolling leg lock defense. Sometimes winning doesn't define if someone is entertaining or interesting or worth...studying or something.
this match seemed like a huge strength diff. maybe deandre will start lifting weights more seriously
Best BJJ channel on YT. Thanks for the clear explanation of all the different sequences ❤
Thank you 🥰
its always so crazy to see ethan and craig before their adult puberty lmaoo
😂
I prefer psychological jiu jitsu. It’s purely based around the thought of doing 90% mental reps and only 10% physical training. Ive been seeing great results on my white belts. Thoughts??
Focusing on all aspects is what creates guys like gordon and mica. Just an old school approach or eco approach will leave holes in your game. An eco approach is more usable at a high level, but you still need drills and movements based on the newest or most efficient ways to execute moves.
@@timothycarey3883 if u only train 10 minutes a day it will lessen your chance of injury. If u just watch Danahar enter the system instructionals you will improve 10 fold with less mileage on the body
i go for anyne thats not one of the chosen ppl. he seems like a nice dude but he backs the worlds parasite.
Maybe break down some adcc too. But cji videoooooo
I wouldn't refer to the opposite approach to ecological as "illogical". I would refer to it as "information processing" like the literature suggests for accuracy. Also I don't think anyone in BJJ purely uses information processing unless they just never spar.
Illogical is just how Ethan called their specific way to train at b team as a joke, nothing to do with IP
Thanks! I like the side-by-side from different positions seated/standing but the same arm drag or slide-by is being performed. Move mirroring is an nteresting concept or like to teach if you get a sub you have to have the same flow of moves mirrored back at you by your opponent so both understand how it was got or something. Great video.
Awesome thank you! I imagine their is more overlap like this than we initially think
My buddy and I got to meet you at CJI, thank you for being so cool in person!
@@K.Weber91 such a fun weekend. Thank you for saying hi!
Where’s that goddang cji video at
Pls I need cji breakdown video
Where is cji breakdown at
Who is the instructor at 8:14?
I think the people who use ecological training as their main focus will quickly plateau. The people who will makes leaps in their jujitsu are the innovators; who make things.
How is ecological not innovative?
Do you mean ‘economical’?
Nice video, though a bit click-baity title
Cji video nowwwwwww
Great explanation, and really useful references to other videos
in defense of the logical jiu jitsu, Ethan might sound like a simplen man but that mf knows how to grapple for sure lol
Oh for sure. I find Ethan’s instructionals to be some of the best on the market
@@LIMIBJJ agreed. I like them a lot
I took a seminar from him and was able to feel his top pressure in person.
From the “split squat” passing he does the dude feels like a truck is on top of you.
The thumbnail is so dope.
Dima and Souders. The future of the sport!
Niether are the future.
@@timothycarey3883 then who is bozo?
Does anyone know what the jingle in the intro is called?
Pls what vid is it at @4:22 of Greg Souders?
Here you go! He starts taking g about it at 59:30 into the video ua-cam.com/video/ALe4mGr_3TE/v-deo.htmlsi=Ay-48hA0uzXJ0IQi
@@LIMIBJJ Amazing, thank you!!
Yo, a favor to ask. Please omit the flickering transitions between scenes, many of us are extremely sensitive to flickering light due to getting thumped in the head.
Otherwise; great edit!
Interesting I didn’t think of this. Thank you for the feedback
@@LIMIBJJ
Many many thanks!!!!
(Almost all editing apps include free transitions that are brutal for us CTE dorks, we just need a smooth cross fade.)
Damn, this was really insightful.
shout out Josh from ISAJJ, IYKYK
Do yuo even eco bro?
Great Video!
I wanna start posting my own bjj tutorials, any advice
Film. Edit. Post.
That is it.
not really a test of ecological Jiujitsu given that Corbe got his black belt before he ever moved over to Saunders gym.
He trained there for four years. Come off it
@@michaelswann9849 but he was already a black belt and high level competitor. Which earned learning from the good traditional method. So you can’t say he developed his game through the ecological approach. Now if someone had spent their whole career training just under the ecological method that would be a true test.
Does the “head hands hips” concept still apply to single legs?
Of course brother, in order to capture the leg, You need to lower your level (clear the heads) manage to get the hands out of your way and finally avoid the sprawl (hips) bye getting in with good posture ( your shoulders aligned with your hips )
@@l.em.t3819 Thank you, very helpful reply.
@@l.em.t3819but can you still finish a single leg when your opponent has a whizzer? (hand defence)
Hand defence is a downblock or frame that prevents your opponent getting to your leg in the first place. A whizzer is not hand defence in the way they talk about in this vid, as your opponent has already completed a successful shot and captured your leg
@@RandomIrrelevantUser a whizzer will primarily stop someone going behind you, it won't necessarily keep you upright from conceding the takedown
🙏🏼
ur rashguard looks goofy
Hahaha thanks man
Great breakdown. “Ecological” is a bugaboo of mine. It’s marketing. It’s different, yes, but every good gym is different from every other good gym. The other ones don’t relentlessly brand their differences with pseudo-intellectual terms and disrespect the rest of the world of hardcore gyms who, incidentally, they can’t beat, or at least they cannot beat at anywhere approaching rate of success they would have to to justify their culty rhetoric.
@@Unit_6227_Drilling_Experiments I think it has to do with what the coach expects and promotes. If he’s catering to hobbyist/families first because he wants more members now, he’s not going to drive like a competitive coach because that scares hobbyists off. Gym owners who take the hardcore competitive road often struggle financially for a bunch of years bc the clientele is smaller and you work more, and often top competitors don’t pay that well. But in the long run if he makes champs the gym name will get big and affiliates can open up and do a bunch of family gyms and funnel any hardcore guys they end up with to the big gym a few times a year. Ambitious bjj players at hobbyist/family gyms have to find a partner to drill/train with outside class. I think it’s less the type of training and more the pace/drive of the whole thing.
@@joehiggs4349theres definitely an awkward limbo between the Champs or more serious guys thinking dynamic resistance needs taught a lesson so you now you're in a deathmatch and the new ones who are like no we can't do that or slow down and relax.
I get what youre saying.
You haven't achieved anything in the sport don't judge something until you've tried it