Star Citizen 2018 Honest Rant Why I Refunded (21:9)
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- An off-the-cuff approach on why I refunded and retired the dream.
Want to know about how to obtain a refund?
( / starcitizen_refunds )
This Reddit will help you. Take a glance at the sidebar, look for the 2018 refund guide sticky. If you have any questions, start a thread. These folks were helpful and patient. At this time, you'll be awaiting the "refund specialist". Folks have been waiting since January, no refunds since 3.0 dropped. Make sure to check and reply to the "72 hour auto-resolve" email. "Continue with my refund" will suffice, if you miss the 72 hour window, they delete your ticket.
For what it's worth, I loudly complained about some of these other changes, and voiced concern way back when Chris said "we've sort of gamified the backing" (www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php?print=1)... but... ya... with this last round of BS, I finally hit my limit. It's not any one straw. It's not just that the CIG today is very different than the one in 2012 where I got a personal email from CR back at his chris.roberts@cig.mail.intercom.io address. It's not just that the coop space simulator is gone, replaced by a single player game that's half first-person shooter, along with a companion MMO (I've never even played WoW or Eve, MMOs just aren't my thing), it's not just that hardpoints and ships don't work the way they used to, or the way they used to before that, it's not just warbonds, it's not just LTI... it's all those little things piling into a greater sense that I don't know what game CIG is making, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it. The white knights have championed them right over the cliff. I've been a backer since before most of the commenters here (robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/firefly303 :citation, since you shouldn't trust people on the internet), and seen a bit more of the shit CIG has pulled (robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13126-Grace-Period-Update)... and for all the excuses about "the community" giving CIG a license to make two completely different games than the one I paid for, the reality is still that this 6 year journey just isn't what they sold me (imgur.com/8aJfrN5)... I want off this ride, and I'd like my money back. They said this was a pledge (legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pledge) which means that the money remained owned by me, though it was possessed by them... they haven't fulfilled the purpose of the pledge, or come anywhere close to it. I'm fine with them making these other games, and that's fine if other people want to back those games, knowing what they're getting into... I just want out for me. I wish they had actually lived up to their own pledge (robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge).
Perfect. Pinned.
Just to clarify, what exactly do you mean by "co-op space simulator"? To quote the kickstarter page:
"Real quick, Star Citizen is:
A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
Single Player - Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)"
The single player part of Star Citizen, Squadron 42, was always primarily a single player campaign, and originally intended to have the ability for a friend to pop into your game and take over a friendly NPC during missions. Specifically the game was advertised as being like a modern Wing Commander, a space fighter combat "sim", with a semi-linear cinematic story. You seem to be implying that you expected the game to be, primarily, a co-op experience, and more of a general space simulator like Freelancer?
Also the "first person" aspect of the Star Citizen universe was always a core part of the experience, the "shooter" part simply wasn't in the initial budget, and thus not part of the initial plan, but was always an intended feature. Chris always talked about replacing traditional cutscenes, and instead having the player actually able to interact and do things while the other characters in the "cutscene" were doing their thing. So you know all those cutscenes in Wing Commander where your character is doing things unrelated to flying the ship? Well the plan always was to make those kinds of scenes playable, you control your character in all they do, not just flight. Remember in Wing Commander how they had ground combat in various cutscenes? Same thing, instead of watching your character do it, YOU would control your character and do it.
This was always clear to me as the ultimate intention, but that unless they got the funding it wouldn't happen. I'm not sure why you seem to have thought the game was never intended or supposed to have first person combat elements should all the desired features be included.
Regarding the drop-in, drop-out co-op being cut, yes, that sucks, but I don't mind that so much since the Persistent Universe offers a much bigger experience to play with my friends in, and there is the possibility we might be able to replay campaign missions as co-op scenarios, just not drop-in, drop-out.
Regarding hardpoints and ships and how they "used to work", well...yes, this is the nature of development in general. I'm curious about what change to hardpoints exactly was deal breaking for you, and also what change to ships made them no longer what you expected. Frankly the original "upgrade slots" system was not something I liked, it seemed too abstract compared to the rest of the systems on a ship, I much prefer how they intend to handle "upgrades" now, as well as all the other changes to the ships functionality.
Erm...the plan was always to make two games, and that had nothing to do with a community choice. I have no idea why you would think otherwise.
Yep, it's taking longer than originally planned, for obvious reasons, like getting more money than expected, and thus being able to make a much bigger, more detailed game than originally planned. The game they wanted to make if they had the money to. Basically you're getting more for your money, at the cost of having to wait longer to get it. If you only cared about getting a product by a specific date, then you made the right decision to get a refund, because this isn't the project for you at all.
I'm also curious as to which part of their pledge document exactly you think they've broken.
I didn't back the game during the kickstarter because I didn't have the money at the time, but I've been following it since before the kickstarter. CIG isn't perfect of course, I have my own gripes about various things, but as far as the games themselves, I love where they are going and how they've progressed and changed and basically grown up from the initial proposals. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.
robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/Synthmilk
"I don't know what game CIG is making", neither do they...
Ken Lord - it's funny how many people projected what they wanted to see onto this project. You seem to have thought that Squadron 42 (minus the FPS aspects you don't seem interested in) was "the one [you] paid for". The KS page itself described SQ42 as only a single-player/co-op "mode" of the larger game. Of course, I realize you had backed before that, but to be fair, there had been very little information to go on prior to that, so backing was a gamble on your part (and a pretty low-cost gamble, to be honest). But regardless, it sounds like Star Citizen isn't the game you want. Though I would argue that it was never claimed to be what you described, I can absolutely understand why you'd want a refund based on that alone.
As far as their pledge, they've lived up to most of what CR said there. The two pieces they have missed on are: 1. the promise to deliver everyone "the game you expect". I never put stock in this because it was clear that there was a wide variety of expectations (mostly, but not only, because of people's projections as mentioned above).
And 2. the promise to be respectful to the community. This was specifically said in the context of telling us why mechanics might get changed and such, but respect is something I expect in all contexts. Don't get me wrong: from a day-to-day perspective, they've certainly shown a lot of respect and honored the community on many occasions. But looking at the longer-term trend, the scale of the delays over the years is certainly far beyond what anyone would have reasonably expected when this whole thing started, and it's hard not to recognize that as disrespectful treatment.
To be sure, CIG and CR made a lot of mistakes along the way, but at the same time, we should also recognize that they've been doing much better lately. Now that they share he roadmap and regularly update it, there are few real surprises anymore. When items slip in the roadmap, so far they've been telling us at about the time you would expect feature-lock to be happening for the next release (even if Jared does seem to have his tail between his legs when giving us the bad news). And despite many choosing to be blind to it, the mechanics are (finally) really beginning to visibly come together in the quarterly releases. While I truly wish they'd gotten on the right course a couple of years earlier, things are definitely trending up now (except for this Legatus pack thing, which, though I understand why they decided to go ahead and do it, just looks bad).
As I said, for people like who that can now see the game isn't turning out to be what they wanted, for whatever reason, getting a refund makes perfect sense. But for anyone who *does* want the MMO game and/or wants the full first-person experience in SQ42, including FPS and planetary-surface kinds of activities, but for whom the issue is simply patience wearing thin: I can relate, truly. But for those people (and there are a lot of us), I don't think now, just when things are finally beginning to come together, is the time to cut and run.
If you need to post walls of text to defend your game/project, something is wrong with your game/project. You're either on time or you're delayed. Perfection is attained in phases not in one go because feature creep is quite real and it COSTS a lot. RSI and CIG have poor Project Management skills.
I tried to get a refund but they told me that I was past the refund deadline by several months. I replied that the game is past the deadline by several years.
Go here: ( www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_... ) and follow the sidebar guidelines and search for the most recent 2018 refund sticky. Tell them you want to continue with the refund. If you have any questions, post a thread in the reddit I posted. They are very helpful! But be warned, you will be waiting for the "refund specialist" to materialize. Some have been waiting since 3.0 dropped.
Top 10 anime roasts
Wait, I thought Star Citizen was a market place for virtual ships. No one told me anything about a game, whats going on?
I'm a backer and still have hopes for the game, but I love the snarky jokes. I think this one surpassed my old favorite of SC being a "Supposed Game"
I just don't understand why they have more than hundred ships but barely working gameplay mechanics. Hell even if they have just 1 ship but focusing on gameplay itself who knows how far they would have went right now.
The ships are glorified donations for the rich people that would still be donating huge sums of cash anyway. They dont sell those ships aimed at the average consumer, they are sold just to give the high spending backers something to show for their donations.
Star citizen is amazing but it needs work, graphics wise it's a masterpiece
Munkei
That is not the excuse for wasting time resource on non priority assets of the game. They should be just focusing on most important things which make the game working, or at least some portion of it and not half finished many mechanics.
I'm even more mad at this game cause it won't let me refund, and is poorly optimized when i'm using SSD, black screens when i respawn, followed by a game crash, 1 hours of level loading, 10 minutes of walking around to get to the train station, 5 minutes train ride to go to another elevator and takes another 5 minutes to arrive at the floor you want, call in your ship... and yes.. another elevator ride to finally get the fuck out into space. Get a contract to finally wait a good 10 minutes to arrive at destination.. to then finally land and hop out and GLITCH into the fucking airlock and die to repeat the whole porcess all over again while the devs are laughing at your ass for biting the damn bait. Fuck you RSI.
By this point, Hello Games have released enough free updates for No Man's Sky that the game is now completely unrecognisable compared to its initially disastrous launch. Let that sink in.
This is basically a mobile game on PC; Legally selling drugs to addicts.
It's kinda of fascinating watching these videos as someone from "outside" the community. It's like watching people break from a cult.
I hate to break it to you, but this is just a natural facet of humanity. People will cling to ideals and dreams, and in some cases, possibly even kill for it. Why? who knows, maybe they just really really want that shitty digital space ship. Ultimately, communities often have a common motive, and when they start to incentivize the censorship of dissenting 'hate speech' or whatnot, it typically does turn into what we all would describe as a cult.
Chances are that we will never see the end of cult-like behavior, unless the human race dies off, or we somehow manage to live thousands of years to see the trait scoured from our genetics. Somehow.
Yeah, 180mil from guys like this is no joke either. People obviously got pretty emotionally attached to the idea of this game. For perspective I read that Star Wars The Old Republic had a similar production budget of 200mil, and GTA 5 was 130ish.. a break down of where all that money goes would be very interesting. A feature length documentary on the development of these big budget games would keep my attention.
@Don Mega I don't think that's what those guys meant....they meant that there were similarities with the two groups in the sense of their absolute devotion to a concept/idea/object despite evidence Wich lead to aggressive behavior (not necessarily physical) when challenged .They are not saying the two groups are the same just that they shares some similarities in their reactions against any opposition to them ...
Well when you invest in an idea totaling Millions of dollars. Generally can bring out the best/worst in people. To me this makes sense (crowd funded so people did put there money into making it happen) Star Wars fandom not so much.
@@jmasked5082 Well, this might give a broad break down of where that money may have went; Comparing Star Wars The Old Republic and GTA 5 with Star Citizen dosen't work and isn't entirely fair because of one huge factor. Both GTA and SWTOR already had established Triple A development studios where as Star Citizen had not since the project began. People always forget this factor. I'm not a fan boy, or a "cultist". It is just an obvious unbiased fact comparing those games and from what I remember is that Star Citizens development team started with like 10 or less people, I think they now have over 400+ employees and three studios in different parts of the world. Acquiring the studios and employees gives you a good idea of where a good chunk of the money has gone already.
Their ambition outstripped their abilities and their greed outstripped their sensibilities. You will never score a goal if you keep moving the goal posts.
So poetic here sir have a like
Yah.. The game might go on but the goal is long passed while on the way to the new ones. Poor analogy. For a bunch of guys who cant tolerate the project or hate the game you are always talking about it. Move on.
Delos Willmore yep. If they had kept their goals in check and focused better, they’d probably have a much more completed and functioning product after six years of development.
Instead, after how many iterations, it’s still buggy, it’s performance even on higher end hardware is questionable, and it continues to suffer from identity crisis where it doesn’t know what it wants to be, making every aspect feel half-executed.
There should have been a meeting a long time ago over exactly what kind of game they wanted it to be, built the mechanics for that first, and then start adding fancy ships and player pets and shit.
Instead we get these half baked ideas being tacked on before the last half baked idea was ever completed or determined to even be working properly yet. That’s like number one rule for any creative endeavour: don’t add more things until you’re sure the first thing works and the new thing will work with it.
I do agree on ambition and moving goal posts, greed is perspective, clearly they are not pocketing money, its going to development for sure. And its jaw dropping already, to make a game beyond AAA without a normal publisher to answer to like Activision or EA, you need funding.
This game will go down in history as a prime example of project mismanagement and the necessity for the evil of publishers. They suck, but they exist for a good reason: restraint, logistical and economical considerations, and setting and enforcing deadlines.
To throw this amount of money at one man to let his creative ambitions go wild is absolute insanity. There needed to be many executives around such finances and people who are well versed and qualified in business to reign in those who aren’t. Business schools also exist for a very good reason. I only hope this disaster doesn’t destroy Kickstarter entirely.
What sucks to me is thinking about what kind of single player game we could’ve had on even 1/3rd of the budget.
No, what it will go down as is as a reason to never try to crowdfund a project like this again as there are too many whiny children with no patience.
Hanthos Taal - This isn't CIG reddit or Spectrum. Nobody is cheering your poorly written personal attacks. The commenter made fantastic and well written views.
You didn't dispute anything, you labeled everyone a "whiny kid." You do realize, outside CIG echo chambers, this is frowned upon? It isn't normal behavior. It's not how you have a discussion or handle a dispute.
A better question: Why attack this comment? Why 5 days later? Why not make your own comment, directed at the video?
Edit: Typo
Sure.
If you don't recognize the backwards ass, feature creep laden clusterfuck that this game has become at this point, keep the faith brother. Be sure to pick up that $500k package that will buy you 10 trillion acres of virtual real estate on the 200 new star systems in store.
Available? 2075.
KyPoorShot I did. Feel free to read and reread it until it sinks in.
Feel free to reread as much as you need: You didn't dispute anything. Childish insults are not "discussion." You didn't address the comment or the video.
What's so hard to understand?
I'm a backer from the beginning and a concierge. I've mostly ignored the game for the last couple years. It started to go pear shaped for me when I tried to play the very first flight tutorial they released. It was an awful mess. I realized that nothing they had done there would work - so everything they're doing would have to be re-done over and over. The next big shock for me was when I got my digital Starfarer Gemini. I walked around that ship and just couldn't fathom what I would do with all that intricate stuff. Secret corridors. Jeffries tube like things. Turrets. Airlocks. Gantries. It would take days of game play just to really learn where everything is. How does someone turn all that into a game, or worse yet, just part of a much larger game? I realized then than CR has no idea where he's going with this project. I think he's utterly confused and just running around putting out one fire after another. There's no coherent vision. The final straw for me was when I heard last week that they're busy trying to match the mo-cap animations they shot two years ago to their current model bones. And they're making, "some progress". This isn't a game studio. It's the Three Stooges gone mad with our money.
I'm pretty sure the intricate layout of ships like the Starfarer and other large ships is to facilitate boarding and FPS gameplay... maybe you have a stowaway in one of those tubes. I only mention it as this was the entire draw for me... the idea of infiltrating a big ship all sneaky like and putting a bullet in the back of the pilots head while they're not paying attention, to steal his ship and sell it on the black market... that stuff really appealed to me. Clearing out a Bengal carrier is really the ultimate goal for me, but it's still a long ways off.
The most relaxing rant I've ever heard.
What *real* gameplay is like after all these years:
[In 20 fps]
1. Summon ship and go to the landing pad.
2. Engine and ladder are missing; there's nothing you can do. Close and restart game.
3. The ship is in one piece this time; leave station and try to FTL somewhere.
4. FTL drive bugs out and strands you in some kind of high-speed purgatory like that one episode of Cowboy Bebop you vaguely remember where the bad guys got trapped in-between warp-gates. Close and restart game.
5. You finally manage to FTL to that town with the npc quest-giver guy, and land your ship.
6. The elevator to get out of the hangar is non-responsive. Close game and don't restart.
7. Wait for the next alpha version and try again.
Tiberius Cerelius Tigris PRE-ALPHA ; after like what...3-4 years now? Yeah, no exucse.
@@emperortivurnis9161 a game which will never leave Alpha and will continue using that excuse to deliver a shit experience for years to come. But hey, its only Alpha
I pledged 4 years ago, I'm so done with Star Citizen now. The crazy Fanboys are just keeping this game worth more in production than to release
Chris E Just wait. It’s not that hard. It’s not coming as soon as you though but the scope and quality of the game has greatly advanced. When it’s out, you can buy ships the normal way. No reason to sell them now when the economic aspects are always changing.
LightBox I've waited 4 years! They're keeping this game in production and Milking this game to death.
'Go back to sleep. Trust in CIG. Buy .jpgs.'
That's how this works... they say just wait, but if you ask for a refund, they tell you that you should've got out earlier... and they see no contradiction in those statements.
@@lightbox8019 One year later... Still no end date provided, game still crashes every 15-30 minutes, game is still bugged with non-functioning mechanics.... lots of new ships though.
Holy shit Ive no idea who you are. Ive never played Star Citizen. Your vid poped up in my recommended.
But thats the most mild mannered rant Ive ever heard. Love your voice too very calm and honest.
SC was always a game that attracted me. But I NEVER EVER on principle .. pre order- Kick start- Alpha- Betta - season pass ANY game and by what I hear about the community in this game their garbage. And Im very glad I decided to wait on this.
Thank you!
Don't worry 'bout it, just wait till it's released, you can buy it then. I assure you it'll be worth the purchase.
*Thumbs up.*
@@alexstambaugh6328 that will be at least 15-20 years from now with the current scope
wish I had waited
Community is the same as any game honestly. There are the super definsive, close minded, white knights who are very vocal but still a minority. Most people are just casual who've purchased a starter pack and just follow development. It's sad that most of the whale like backers are the only publicized people and the whole community gets a 'cult' tag.
I see 2 outcomes at the moment:
1. They fold
2. Something resembling a game releases a few years from now and you either buy a expensive ship or have no fun. I don't think using a starter ship and getting to one of the expensive ones by playing will be a small feat. People that payed a lot of money for their own ships want to have that extra stuff. So a pay to win nightmare. And I'm not even sure if it will be a good game then.
For me the dream is dead.
its gonna be a pay2win nightmare if it becomes a game somehow against all odds. as croberts will be needing money for his next fantasy...lmao and aws server bills needs paying
Karsten Schmidt - I own some bigger ships, but the one I consistently keep coming back to, every several months when I login to check things out, is the Gladius. I've been in AC and seen guys do crazy good in Aurora LN or Origin 325.
I do see power creep. I've also seen them acknowledge it. Beta is when most actual "real" balance will happen. The balance passes we have now are to make things serviceable, "good enough", for the time being.
I hope they don't lean towards unrestricted power creep for bigger backers. I cringed a while back when Roberts was saying he doesn't want players to have private armies, "maybe a couple wingmen".
Then guys with an Idris or Jav are demanding to run those ships solo, with, essentially, a private armies worth of ai crew. And CIG seeming to capitulate on that being possible. My intuition tells me CIG will allow such, but eventually (beta) balance it so that it will either be very cost prohibitive, or ai crew over a certain number will have performance fall-off due to lack of a single player's "command ability", or both of these measures. Such would make solo cap ship play possible, but not ideal, therefore at least encouraging several players to work together to avoid ai crew skill degradation due to too many mice and not enough cats on a single ship.
However, with Roberts wanting a vibrant, varied, and emergent game experience, those whales will be necessary to jump start a trickle down economic effect.
So, besides funding the development with real dollars, they'll be fueling economic opportunity for players with smaller, cheaper ships.
Unlike real life, trickle down economics does work in games.
I've personally done it in WoW years ago where 90% of my game time was wheeling and dealing instead of questing or raiding or whatever I was "supposed" to be doing in the game.
I briefly tried EVE Online and witnessed the same top down player driven economy.
So, we do need the whales. I'm just counting on Roberts being savvy enough to realize the entire gaming model needs to be reasonable or word of mouth sales won't happen. And, despite the couple million current accounts, there are at least that many out there who can be drawn in for a released game for $45-60.
I just don't know about all of that. In my opinion people that payed a lot of money for their ships will get their pitchforks when you can grind from an Aurora to say a Gladius(100$ ship) just in a week. But if this will take a month or more with open world pvp where you can have additional setbacks by people blowing your ship up I don't think many people will enjoy this.
So they only have the options of enraging their long time customers that have put a lot of money in or be unattractive to newer players.
Or it will be like in Elite: Dangerous where people find new "exploitlike" methods to farm a lot of money in a very short time and the devs are just trying to race them to the next thing.
I just don't see a healthy balance for all of this. And as long as they can't get a 100 people in one instance they pretty much have to make capitals perform fully automated by NPCs. And looking at EvE as an example that will lead to one person in his Idris camping a trade station and blowing up everything that undocks just for the tears.
Karsten Schmidt - Roberts understands that griefers can kill an open game experience. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want the game to fail.
He's stated that he'd like to have griefers instanced with each other. Of course, we have no idea at this point how they'll decide someone is engaging in "griefing" or what the definition of the term in SC might be. But, he's also pointed out that jump point exits will be somewhat random to avoid the gate camps EVE gets.
To continue with EVE examples: in the brief time I played it, I witnessed someone from a competing org try to do what you describe, camp a station. It turned out a bunch of org people were online, available on non org'd alts or abe to be called in from rl friends who were online. The would be camper ended up docking, and afraid to undock for hours because he wasn't sure how many of my org were ready to jump him. I was just listening to the thing play out in the org voip.
To bring this to SC, and along with emergent gameplay, and supposing the events are in "low sec" space, if a whale was trying to camp or harass, you'd end up having people hire someone to kill him.
This used to happen when I played World of Warcraft and somebody would start ganking low level players. Some of the best pvp "battlegrounds" were Southshore and Cross Roads world zones. Somebody ganks, help comes, battle ensues.
Losing a ship or load of cargo would suck. But, supposedly, as in real life, we'll have the option to buy insurance for such events, if we want to trade some profit for peace of mind. That will turn a gank into just some wasted time (still unfortunate, albeit), but not a catastrophe.
I think a lot of pessimism is due to us becoming used to game devs and publishers who don't capable of putting out a good product or offer good life cycle support.
If you've ever wached Roberts interact in the non-produced, real meetings, his expectations of both the game and CIG personnel are greater than ours.
There's been some learning curve into how to get a software design company going, for sure, and there will continue to be learning on CIG'S part. But, so far, they seem to be doing better in the "giving a sh!t" category than most devs or pubs when it comes to crafting a game.
I may be completely wrong and CIG turns out to be EA's evil twin.
But, if you look at the heads of both companies, EA ceo wants to make money and can't understand why people don't like some of EA's stuff. Roberts wants to make a good game, but can't understand why some people aren't happy with his efforts.
I'm happy if they surprise me. But I'm to much of a realist. At the end of the day everything is about money. I don't believe that Roberts is only doing it for the sake of making a game. The Porsche and those Monaco vacations don't pay themselves with ideas and optimism.
And if it wasn't about the money why did they change the TOS shortly before they would have to reveal their finances as they promised the whole time? That was the final nail for me. Still following the game and hoping. But I just can't see it getting anywhere close to the promises.
Early access games are basically games where the fan is the investor. Except as an investor you have no contractual irons in the fire. An investor wants a profit. A fan wants a game. The fan accepts whatever EULA or fine print put in front of him/her. An investor is reading over a contract and certain that the rewards are worth the risk, the right people are in place, and a schedule will be kept. Early access means a group of devs are sitting on a pile of cash with very little responsibility.
I've seen this in other games. Features you're teased with start disappearing, etc. Star Citizen has the misery of having DLC as the chief revenue source. Now Star Citizen isn't about the game, it's about making you purchase more DLC before it's even complete.
There are a few companies that do early access right. But if you put money in a company that's using early access as funding, you better not throw more money than you are comfortable losing. How many completed titles has RSI delivered? ZERO. It doesn't matter who is behind it and what they've done. They are still at ZERO. The promised the moon and the stars (and a universe to go with it). They've delivered a cash register in space and people are still feeding it.
DLC is their chief revenue source? What DLC is even in the game? If you're referring to ships, they're soon going to be rentable and even purchasable for in-game currency. This is despite the game being far far away from release. You should watch some of the new CitizenCon panels to see all the hard work being put into developing groundbreaking technology that's being implemented into the game. Fuck, even FOIP which was just some silly out-sourced gimmick seems like it may well add a level of social interaction between players never before seen in a multiplayer game. Of course having investors would mean deadlines were taken more seriously, but what investor would fund an MMO in 2018, let alone one on the scale of SC? Fans though -- people who share Chris' dream of the ultimate space-sim -- are willing to throw a few bucks CIG's way on the off-chance that this dream is realised. It looks like its getting closer. Praise be for OCS.
Whenever I see videos like this it reminds me of the "why I left scientology" videos lol
Well, after a few years of following SC, considering a small investment and after retiring from the service, I WAS going to jump into this project, kick back and enjoy.
If this is what it's become, then forget it.
Thank you for saving me several thousands of dollars.
Umm, you don't need to spend several thousands of dollars.
You said "I can't blame them for doing the ship selling and changing the game in a highly negative way to facilitate that" Well you can actually, its a pretty basic unethical practices
I did blame them for a long time. It is irrelevant how I believe I would handle the situation. Essentially I'm asking people I don't know, to turn down boat loads of cash for selling their integrity. I'd like to think I'd handle the situation differently, but don't have the same faith for the average Joe.
I agree, it's abhorrent behavior, but practically commonplace in society today.
SC was sold on being different though. On a combination of (1) being free from typical publisher practices, and (2) the pledge.
@primeHeretic - I agree. But I finally settled on expecting nothing morally magnificent from anyone. Specifically a multimillion dollar company that could (and did) prey on a willing fan base. It's disgusting and repugnant. But I know the next random person/company would do the same. Moral companies never last long, and neither do moral careers. Integrity is prohibitively expensive. No matter how much I rant, kick or scream, that's never going to change.
KyPoorShot that doesn't mean that you can't blame them, though. You absolutely can have a career or a company that's moral. People just aren't used to it; it's fairly uncharted territory. The love of money is the root of all evil. It corrupts those in high up corporations
@primeHeretic
funny enough being free from a traditional publisher and funded by pledges is exactly what allowed this situation. Any competent publisher would have muzzled or even fired Chris's ass a long time ago and already delivered a product. Maybe not all that was promised (because that is impossible with Chris as history has proven with Freelancer's development) but enough to save face. Instead the incompetence and failure has had free run since development started because Chris wasn't on a leash and fanboys allowed it by getting straight rabid on anyone who said anything was wrong.
Honestly, I just found your channel, and I could listen to you ramble about anything. Your voice is so hypnotically homely. Going to marathon your stuff now :)
Thank you, that's very kind. I think?
You're welcome. It's definitely a compliment. Like the bit about the spaceship being an extension of yourself - replace the spaceship with a car for instance and it just sounds really down to earth. It's like listening to a relative tell you stories over a campfire.
All of this probably sounds really weird come to think of it, but yeah. That really resonated with me.
Its simple. The actual sales of the game could never touch the cash flow of pre ordered content. Why sale a finished product, when you get money from not finishing said product? Unlimited money and no deadline IS NOT a good thing....I'm honestly curious to how much salary Chris takes personally from this project.
Nick Shea so true
Nick Shea Roberts was already renowned for being bad with budgets and time constraints. He is NOT the person to trust with $170 million!!!
David Kennedy he's been ambitious guy, well I never invested in SC but just saying, if he bankrupts he will move it to another company probably to end it, so ..... .
DjeieA KeksekI some of his previous work only got finished when other companies stepped in and did it without him.
unlimited money? lmao! Here's some food for thought for ya... GTA 5 development cost was 265$ million. For a single player game, in the first 24 hours of being released it sold 11.2 Million copies which equates to 815.7$ million.
CiG has raised 184$ million in 6 years, if they released squadron 42 tomorrow id imagine they'd make around 30$ million in 24 hours. that 30$ million is what they make in a year on average from crowd funding, there is no way that concept sales for ships will make them more money for an ever extending deadline than actually releasing the game/s as a finished product would.
Im not try to suck CiGs dick, i just think theres alot of over inflated drama going around the net about a DELAYED AGAIN game there seems to be where from my understanding they are pretty much on track.
I have many hours in Elite Dangerous and I wished many things would be like SC. But the Ship thing in SC I’m not jealous about... Cause though Elite has many flaws, one thing I do love about the game is that the ships you encounter are different depending on load out... You may meet a small ship and think easy pray... but then the pilot is a top gun with the ship armed to the teeth... And other times you meet a big ship where you think. Okay I’m dead... But then the pilot went with exploration build instead of war build... I really like that. Cause that means no ship is outfitted the same... you will always stay on your toes and hold your breath until the system scan goes through of what kind of armament the ship has. Kinda sad to hear SC went away from that.
I agree. I love E:D, but to me, it has a tier system and a grind.
I agree that the ship builds can vary and change the outcome. But I feel "the engineers" update pronounced this to the extreme (in a positive way).
In my opinion, there was always a *little* wiggle room when facing different ships (like you stated, the build specifics were key), but I had a fair amount of confidence in the outcome (doesn't mean I wasn't surprised often!). With the engineers update, there is severe "pucker factor" when approaching pilots.
I'm in agreement about SC too. The P2W model destroyed the greatest promise of the project.
I just wanted to add, the process of balancing a ship build in E:D, borders on the line of perfection. You have to make sacrifices, in every category, throughout the process. Even a fully engineered ship, using time intensive materials, still doesn't have everything.
ED just has the best flight controls. Assisted flying, or free flight :)
What tops out Elite for me is the fact the best combat ships aren't really the biggest most expensive ships. Sure, big expensive boats can make PvE pretty easy and sort of farmable, but the real champ of PvP is the FDL, a medium ship which costs a fraction of what a Combat'Conda or Corvette or Cutter or Type10 will run you. In fact my favorite ships are almost all "medium" classification (AspX, Python, FDL) and my fav large ships are the Orca and Clipper, in general my other large ships (conda, type10, sold the others) just collect dust. As for small ships, still love my iEagle, and take it out from time to time.
Arizona Anime-Fan exactly. You don’t have to be a deep pocketed Kickstarter-backing rich whale to have good loadouts in elite dangerous.
You could take a Viper Mk3 and outfit it to take on much larger ships. Or you can have an Anaconda completely outfitted for tourism or mining. There’s a lot of variety in what you can do with most ships of any tier. You can have a great experience in elite dangerous even if you never come close to getting a Corvette.
Star citizen on the other hand actively penalizes players with less money. The players dumping hundreds of bucks into getting fancier ships will almost always have the edge. Blows my mind backers can’t see that.
Elite may have a grinding problem but it’s still way more accessible and above all more fun. And that’s without it having any on-foot segment or 3D NPC humans walking around to talk to.
Star citizen looks like everything it was supposed to be against. I just hope it fails and people get their refunds.
I don't hope it fails, rather, they let the people who want out, get refunds. That seems the win/win scenario.
Well thought, well presented, and so true. I'm only $750 in the hole so far as my investments concerned, but I have also been waiting since the early campaign to be able to get into my freelancer and fly around and explore. To date, I've only been able to get into the cockpit, fall through the floor, and end up stuck between my landing skids and the deck of my hanger. I keep watching the MISC commercial, and it reminds me of what I bought. Unfortunately, what I bought and what is being delivered is now so much snake oil.
People say in these posts, "but you've never designed a game, so you don't understand." Well, I have worked on many games and I can tell you that I would've been fired if I worked the way any of CIG's people are working.
My naïve self still hopes that this game becomes a reality, but my responsible adult self says get your money back and scream to the heavens.
It's a mess right now. The recent E3 Teaser was, well, completely misrepresentative and misleading. More backers are piping-up on Reddit. More people outside the project consider the whole thing a sham (and are very vocal). I don't know what happens next, but it'll be a distinct change.
Fun fact, the Freelancer MAX was the ship I aimed to earn in the game after launch. Oh well, it's STILL not flyable. And if it was, you'd fall through the deck plates apparently. Shameful.
"investment"
Timpraetor how is it, to date as you say, as of two days ago, you can't get into a freelancer and fly around and explore? I could do that over a year ago. Add in the fact that you can now land on the surfaces of the available planets. Have you even tried to play the game in the last year? Your comments say you have not.
Yep - I'm lying - you caught me. If you have a magic wand that can make my MISC investment flyable, please, oh please wave it for me.
For everyone else, my DUR is not available to call - only my two smaller fighters and my P-52. And I just tried again last night after having to perform another FULL removal and reinstall.
Timpraetor the game is literally not done. Jesus christ
Tbh, i just like your „calm smokey sad voice“ it feels like i am allowed to smoke weed at my workplace, soo relaxing.
The maturity you show in this is honestly impressive. You've got a sub from me off of this video alone. Something about your voice is just so easy to listen to.
Thank you, that's very generous!
Thank you for being so chill and genuine here. Heartfelt and heard, I wholly agree with you. Congratulations on a successful refund. Everything that was supposed to make SC great no longer seems to be planned, and on top of that there's REALLY nothing to show here for 5 years of development.
Thank you. Unfortunately, I'm still awaiting the "refund specialist." CIG hasn't processed refunds since 3.0 dropped/beginning January 2018. Some people on the refund reddit ( www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_... ) have been waiting since January 2018. 7 months waiting for a refund, with only a mailbot named DonKarnage for comfort. Things are starting to look a little grim, to be honest.
KyPoorShot That is really unfortunate...
Thank god I only buy FINISHED PRODUCTS.....makes no sense to just hand over money for a product that has no release date.
Sometimes it works out. Kerbal Space Program, Rimworld, and FTL are games I'm happy to have supported early in their development. Personally I think Chris Roberts really started the project out with good intentions, but few can resist that amount of money.
We bought into a dream...now its just a cashgrab. I suspect if the game were never released CIG would be just fine with it
So you never cook? :Pp
You liar! It does have a release date, five years ago was the release date.
Amen!
To much smoke and mirrors.
Everything is promoted as whats going to added.
And the reality is half baked and lacking any real direction.
It's still a series of tech demos held together with a dreadful flight model.
I feel the end is nigh and it will happen quickly when people start refunding in bigger numbers,most of the money has been spent so most people will simply lose out.
Just look at the high quality of the advertising of ship sales and the website,that shit isn't cheap. And then look at the quality of the game.
This far down the road and its still a mess!
I've never followed much of it but until now all I've seen is a walking/flying around simulator, with a bit of shooting and stuff. I'm really confused as to what's supposed to be good.
It really feels like people are adding the fluff but no one stopped to wonder about the foundations of the game. For an analogy, it's like a beautiful racing game where someone keeps adding new cars, huge maps and so on, but no one ever stopped and wondered about the actual racing part and if it's fun to play.
This game broke my heart. Never have I been lifted so high, just to plummet back down to earth.
Well spoken, well focused, well intention'd, straight from your heart.. is the message I heard you share with me. FYI, this is my first time ever hearing you speak, or seen your channel. Should speak volumes as to the value of the message you have created to share with others.... For that, you've earned my Sub... /Salute... We both cherish the dream that was SC.. one day this great game will be created, just by a different company, led, by a better man..... Perhaps it will be my children that will enjoy and play that great game, for my time is running short... Anyway's thanks for the share, the message and your willingness to show how your principles guide what you value and appreciate.
This video is almost bittersweet, in the sense that it's always sad when something you invest time and money into doesn't pan out the way you hoped, or you feel betrayed by it in some way. But on the plus side, you got out before it dragged you further down the rabbit hole. You seem like the kind of dude that would be cool to grab a beer with and talk about this kind of stuff intellectually and rationally. And you can tell this is a well thought out and intellectual video, because it's making all the childish comments down here stand out that much more.
With 3.2 we finally got mining as a game mechanic. A game mechanic much needed in an already pretty empty game. What was their decision regarding this new mechanic? To lock it behind a paywall. If you want to experience a certain game mechanic in an open development alpha you need to pay 155 euro, on top of what you already spent to be able to play the game. How is this acceptable in any way?
If they didn't want to just give away free Prospectors to people to test out the mining mechanic, then why not activate the REC'ed ships in the PU and have to Prospector up for renting that way? REC'ed ships worked before in the PU so they have no excuse apart from greed. They will try to coerce people into paying stupid amounts for pixels just be able to do something in the game.
What will happen when salvaging comes to the game? Yup, another 150 euros or more because you'll need at least the starter salvaging ship. What about any other future professions that require specialized ships? Guess you'll need to fork over a few hundreds of euro to buy ships for those as well. Soon enough you'll need to "invest" at least 1000 euro just to be able to play this game. The fact that there are people who are defending this is just sad. This is the future of SC.
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a scam. You can literally see the progress they're making via their weekly shows they post on their YT channel and the various forum discussions. The roadmap also gets updated on a weekly basis which provides some knowledge as how things are progressing in which category. The game takes so long because of the relative small dev team, constant feature creep, the poor overall management, some bad decisions and sets backs in the past, and the lack of actual tools to build the game. The last thing is on what they worked a lot for quite some time until recently, this is why we saw very little progress. But now things did change and we see a lot more progress, respected deadlines for patches, a ton of bug fixes after a major patch, ships getting done faster, etc.
The problem is their income model and how fanatic and overzealous a decent portion of the community is. Some are so emotionally invested that they can't accept any criticism regardless of how valid it might be. The community also acts very entitled to the point that some are even against letting the players experience others ships than the ones they pledged for before the game gets launched. Mind boggling considering we're talking about an open development alpha, not even a beta.
CIG is aware that if they make ships available in game they are going to kill the golden goose. Even if they don't kill it entirely, it will severely reduce their income. Add in the fanatic supporters of the company, usually the ones who already spent more than a thousand on this game already, and you can see why they might try to prolong the inevitable as much as possible. So far they said they want in game ship purchases for 3.3, at the end of september in other words. There's no guarantee for it though. Even if we get it then, there's also no guarantee that the ship prices will be decent enough to allow your average player, not your die hard fan that plays 6 hours a day, to eventually get one before the progression wipe. They could put prohibitive prices for in game ship purchases in order to coerce players to buy them with real money. We'll just have to wait and see.
Is SC worth it? In my opinon it does. It's a pretty empty game so far, but can also be a lot of fun. Crusing around high orbit on one of the moons sure is relaxing and beautiful to watch. The game has it's moments worth experiencing. With time it will only get better in my opinion, just that it will take more time than some are willing to wait.
I agree that it's ridiculous that they're adding systems to the game with no way to test them outside of PTU/paying for a pledge ship. But it's only been since 3.0 that there's been real jobs outside of ICC and repairing com relays. It's my understanding that it will be possible to buy ships with aUEC in 3.3. Maybe 3.4. Who knows, really. But it's a feature they're working on right now. Unfortunately mining was ready before they added in game ship purchases, but you're acting like there's never going to be a way to completely experience the game without spending thousands. That's a bit dramatic.
It is an alpha. You can get all ships ingame...someday...maybe...
Now in 3.3 u can buy prospector with in game gamey you fucker
500 HOURS grind to get... in a "test" phase pre-alpha. With wipes.
ua-cam.com/video/ggjhvIe1oeg/v-deo.html
Yes, totally reasonable. This is not P2W at all. *slow clap*
I just wanted a single player Wing Commander. How difficult was that? LOL
Apparently more difficulty than 6 years and $180,000,000 can overcome.
But but but.... the Kilrathi are laughing in their boots.
They already had Privateer - die by the very weapons you adore!
KyPoorShot too easy. That's why they arent wasting their time
I wish they kept it simple and small and built it from the ground up
I foresee the Duke Nukem Forever/Daikatana fate for Star Citizen. It's not going to be pretty.
Message from the future:its still a broken mess.
If you have a game progression that's affected by the wallet. Then the wallet will eventually become the prime lynchpin in the game's balance. It might not happen all at once. It may take months, but the unbalance in the system will eventually get there and when it does you'll have ended up wasting your time.
No one will buy into a system where they're cannon fodder due to a potentially unbalancing infinite influence (like cash spent) that they can't see or affect in an online arena. Star Citizen's developers may need to make money, but when they're doing things that affect progression and balance based on cash spent they're robbing Peter to pay Paul and they'll end up eroding their game's foundation.
The game, if it ever launches as intended, will be too big for that to be an issue. It's planned to have 10 npcs to every player, and you won't be able to go out of your way to find other players unless you happen to find a bounty hunting contract or Advocacy dossier that is for a player, but you won't know it's a player until you attempt to open comms and see what they do.
And the powers that be will be too strong for even a SC millionaire to hold off the police and military in a core system for too long, though being able to infiltrate for periods of time is part of the intended mechanics, with waves of enemies being the time and objective liming factors.
That being said, being a rich outlaw will probably give you an advantage in uncivilized space, but the other outlaw factions will act in a similar fashion in the systems they control. Rich people will be able to control uncontrolled areas, they may need to rein that in at some point, or rich players/orgs will just act will just act as small factions that control a couple planets compared to the dozens of systems the military, outlaws, and alien races control.
Of course something else could go wrong or the game might launch smaller then originally planned, but at this point it'll be a miracle if we get a game with 10 systems let alone 100+.
Plus it's important to remember that as a player you may be running your own ops on your own ships in your own org, or you might be working with another org, using a turret on their ship, helping them accomplish their goals knowing next time they'll help you, if the relationship is to continue. Ultimately your reputation and ability to work with other players with open up more gameplay options than buying a bunch of ships and creds.
Rich players are either gonna be really popular and know when to use their ships appropriately or they're gonna end up broke in real life trying to run giant ships alone with skeleton crews and getting wrecked all the time.
Best example I have of this from my experience is ArcheAge. P2W is only good for a cash grab from the whales not a sustainable game.
blackcat7k - Yes that is entirely true. That would be a big problem if it was a video game and not a ship selling company. The video game they are supposedly making is going nowhere.
+Derakos Zrux No game is too big for this to be an issue. Players expand to fill the space they are given and abandon the less effective stuff. If you want to play with other players, where the action is happening, you'll encounter other players, and anywhere there are players there will be Powerwallet players. If you find a niche it will be filled quickly - if its a good niche it will be filled very quickly. Have you ever even played an MMO before?
Truly a shame how this community let this game go down the path it has. I was so excited about this game years ago. Hope you still do update videos as the project continues I really enjoy your SC content.
Thank you, that's very kind.
I agree that the community allowed CIG to take bolder and more erratic steps. The inability of the "faithful" to hold CIG accountable or heed cautionary tales, led us here. The project has strayed so far from inception, it's hardly recognizable or distinctive from competitors.
Not only did theyfail to hold him acccountable they atttacked and demonized those who tried to be the voice of reason. THey essentially held Robbers hand as he shut them down and silenced them. Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who waited this long. We tried, you wouldnt listen.
The devs let this game end up here not the comunity..... only problem with the comunity is that.many of them became sheeps and that let cig belive that thay can get away with anything
A message from the future! You made the right choice they have made about an inch worth of progress since 3.0. I don't think they have one complete
finished system in the game yet.
At this point I've got more faith in Sean Murray than Chris Roberts. At least Sean released a game with core features working, and then went and filled in after launch. Hell, the way Sean's been working, NMS may turn into what Star Citizen was going to be by the time SC is ever released...
walt lock Yeah but "faith"... meh... Sean Murray... man... he... I don't want to talk about it...
it IS pretty ironic in contrast. people saying no mans sky was a huge rip off, meanwhile star citizen is out here doing this...no mans sky got published early from exec. pressure while star citizen wallows in a timeless sandbox of OVER $150,000,000 ! and no mans sky is the actual GAME of the two....
Dalton Bedore No Mans Sky is actually a decent game. It was overhyped too much. I was originally annoyed with it and revisited it a month ago when I'd forgotten their absurd marketing lies and it was actually a fun game.
P.s. White knights suck. Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
Brosef, you are drop-kicking a hornet's nest. Please use caution.
I'll sit my popcorn here. Just so that I'll be notified when they come.
There's always a show in my comments. Some forget there is actually a video attached.
You're a white knight, who you kidding? Your channel is one big advertisement for this shit developer.
@Fanboys - Citizen Gamer has always been sensible to me. He still believes the original CIG and project are buried somewhere in what we have.
As a staunch SC backer since 2013, I have to say, this guy has a great point.
Thank you. Maybe if more backers spoke out, CIG would take notice?
Im not sure honestly, like you said, we have done this to our selves and put CIG in a position where they see crazy profits from ship concept sells and thus pushes them to make more ships before the ones in game now even work properly. I think the fact is, that old 20 million dollar project is dead and gone, I believe CIG will need around 300 to 350 million to finish now by the pace of ship development. I have around $6500 in the game, and love every ship in my hangar, but I have stopped putting more money in or doing any CCUs because my old money has less value. The project has morphed into a gigantic game that still is my wildest dreams come true. I am in it for the long haul.
I sincerely hope it's worth your wait and contributions, I truly do. I just can't support the project anymore. I'm afraid they've become accustomed to their income, and will chase means to maintain it. Even if that includes undercutting "old" money, changing game mechanics to sell ships and promising something different to every crowd. I feel like they've changed a lot since 2012-2014.
+1 completely agree, I'm a backer from 2012 and I've watched this morph into something I don't want. My first worries were in 2014 when all the talk started sounding like eve online in the forums and comments from the original backers just got ignored completely. I'll stick with it because I only chucked $60 in and can afford to watch it burn. But all the comms from CIG is about what new ship u can buy these days rather than actual progress on it.
I just want Squadron 42. That's what I backed. I don't care about the PTU. What annoys me is they are focused more on the PTU than the original project they pitched.
Daegon becouse the mmo portion was one of the bigest feature..... will never work
Me too. I backed the game as the spiritual sequel to Freelancer, my all time favorite space game, not some space MMO. If I want to play space MMO, I go play EVE online.
Daegon I remember several years ago they were excited to have big name actors doing the voice and motion capture work, like Mark Hamill. There was this big hullabaloo over it and Mark was excited to see the outcome.
That had to have been more than three years ago and SQ42 has practically been silent ever since.
Entire games have been made in the time SQ42 has been silent for. Better games. That should tell you something.
While I appreciate some of your concerns, particularly Warbonds which I've hated since day one as they invalidate gift card values, there's some misinformation in here.
1:44 - Misinformation - You can still change out the guns on the Aurora
2:05 - Misinformation - The physicalised functionality of the Big Box Stor-All isn't in yet, and it's not intended to be restricted to the CL model - the CL model just comes with one.
2:15 - Misinformation - For the first time we can now switch out components like coolers, shields, etc. We've got more now, not less.
2:22 - Misinformation - Handheld tools are coming for professions such as Mining, Salvage, Repair and Medical. You won't need a specific ship. They are just dedicated to a particular profession.
As a previous owner of the Aurora LN. It was bundled with the starter package for backing the game for $45. You have to understand that you are backing the game's development and not buying a finished product. The Aurora was meant to be your pickup truck. Small compact hauler. The LN version that I had was a variant with extra fire power aka a Pickup truck with a machine Gun at the back. It still does that role. He is talking about mining in a Aurora. That was meant for a "personal mining tool" which is not out yet. But the Aurora / Toyota Tundra was never designed or marketed as an excavator. The Game is not a game yet it is still under development. We have access to play its current Alpha version which is not the Game it will be.
They’re raking in so much money for such very little progress. Either a scam or too ambitious. I gave up on it after 3.0
I've had serious issues for a while. I regret not filing for a refund sooner.
KyPoorShot so if I filed to get my small $40 back they’d grant it?
If not within the 14 day "return window", no. You can follow the sidebar here ( www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/ ) and checkout the 2018 refund guide. The process involves submitting a ticket, responding to them by repeatedly telling them to continue with your refund. There is one email in particular you need to respond to within 72 hours, or they simply trash your request.
If you jump through all the right hoops, you'll be waiting for the "refund specialist". After 3.0 dropped, they've stopped/delayed all refunds. Backers have been waiting for the "specialist" since January. If you want to check options, I recommend starting a thread.
That's how scams work. Also all those "mail in rebates" you see on electronics. They make actually getting them (rebates or refunds) such a pain in the ass they counting on most people just throwing their hands up in disgust and saying "Fuck it!"
That's what they want. Getting a refund being difficult and time consuming is absolutely, positively deliberate. They could easily make it fast and simple, but they don't want to.
I'm a backer & concierge and yeah I initially didn't like the direction the game took. Their scope kept going up and so did development time. If game dev university taught me anything is that a big scope can KILL. I'm still a bit uncertain for the game's future but I will not refund just yet. The reason being is despite all the screwups CIG did I actually find it difficult to believe that their funding will dry up in the near future as many people implied. Yes they have backer funding, but quite recently an Investor gave the studio around 40 million? Not only that, the tech that SC has developed so far can also be sold to other studios, increasing their funding for the game.
I will keep an eye on their developments and see if I should refund or not, gonna have to trust my knowledge of game development on this one. But damn... the community in SC can be a bit... annoying at times.. always trying to assure others that things will be fine and attacking those who have legitimate criticism of the game. If the game becomes a development success, its downfall will be its cult-like community.
I hope I'm not the only open-minded backer here.
wow, your expertly scripted response sure convinced me to go throw more money at a game with a 10 year old gfx engine.
It looks like a great game.
But sounds like pay to win on a epic scale.
your are not actually buying ship, ur giving money to make the game, and to let you test the alpha they give you a ship, depending on the price, in the end, things would only be buyable buy in-game cash. And the ships that are gave to you for giving many $ are most of the time, big, beautiful like the 600i but useless, or need many people to be efficient.
"your are not actually buying ship" yes you are dummy
seen.
my point was : it's not pay to win at all. And btw that's a simu, simu, like Arma, are not here to be balenced, the all point is to be adaptativ, to adapt to your encounter, some times they are weaker, some times they are stronger, this will be your task to play it cool and smart, and almsot all people who have got expensive ship arent gonna be pvp, they just want the ship that are useful for the work they want to do.
Yes it IS pay to win, but that's ok for me, these guys paid 1000$ for this game, they should have a better ship than me, Im glad that I will be able to play the game with 40$ and be able to buy every single ship with ingame money, but only if that IS possible and only if the game DOES get finally released one day.
But,
1) If the game never gets released...
2) If it will requires an incredible amount of grinding just to buy anything in the game with ingame currency...
3) And if people after the game's final release will still be able to buy things ingame with real money...
That will be the epitome of a 100% pay to win game.
BUT!
If the game gets released one day.
If the grinding required to make progress is reasonable and feasible by the players who just bought the game with 40$
And if people are not going to be able to pay any more money to buy in game currency or ingame stuff
Then the game will not be pay to win, because eventually even the 40$ players will get their fair chance of reaching the player who spend 1000$ and got a better ship than them.
But if all of the above that I mentioned happen, then SC will be a pay to win game. No doubt about it!
I'm glad that people are willing to fund this project because I really like the idea, but If it turns out to be a pay to win game, then I wont be joining that dream...
I climb the ladder to the skies to help my suffering brethren, and the more I climb the more their screams sound more like laughter to me. And I got so high I forgot where I came from and where I was going. I looked back at the multitude and I couldn't recognise their faces and I couldn't hear their voices.
Money changes everything.
I dream of a game developer who comes along and does a "Star Citizen" game on a more sensable and realistic scale with good leadership. No bullshit involved, no constant lying to your consumers and fan base, no personal greed and recklessness that has led Star Citizen to what it has become today, and no Chris Roberts or Cloud Imperium Games.
I believe a Star Citizen space simulator may very well be possible and it will not surprise me one bit if we soon will hear about a new project that is a type of Star Citizen game but on a smaller scale, that after release of a full game will keep on expanding on that universe and make it even greater with more ship types and systems to explore and have fun in. Aim small, give the customers a fun and playable product, then make the vision larger and greater than the day it was before until you one day have a full Chris Roberts scale Space Simulator.
This absolutely must happen. The advantage this game developer will have is the forth knowledge of what became of Star Citizen and what absolutely not to do. And if there's anything Star Citizen have proven is there's a huge fan base waiting for something like this to happen. 200 million dollars worth of money to be exact, and probably more if you release an awesome game.
Then CIG can sit there with their buggy mess, sell ships for thousand dollars a piece to a fan base that has already abandoned them long ago.
I agree with you. While your vision has not been fulfilled... you have every right to stop you support. Although my dream is still alive
The more I hear about Star Citizen, the more I'm reminded of the dangers (both circumstantial and malicious) of kickstarter projects. The game just seems to be a bottomless money pit, and it hasn't even been released.
Never pay for anything but a finished product.
Backed Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous. I want both of them to succeed, I love this new generation of space games we have access to now. But this is depressing. One of the things I get a kick out of in Elite is taking a ship that's made for one role, then build them to be effective in another role. Easy example, the Orca Passenger Liner, I stripped out the passenger cabins, built up is drive and turned it into a VERY competent and fun exploration vessel. So come on Star Citizen, get it together.
Kanga Roo I too have an 'ExplOrca'. If you're going to explore, why not do it in style? 👍
haha exactly. Besides, a 50ly jump range, fully equipped... that makes a dam good explorer!
well, that is certainly something elite was built out to do. elite likes its progression system like you would do with an game like skyrim. when you progress you start out by choosing a rough path, and you get better at it. but you also become better at everything else, until you reach a point where you can be the best at everything with that one top of the line ship.
SC is an MMO and unlike elite is built this way, as such, the specialisation replaces the tiers of ships. it is much more restrictive on how much you can change the role of a ship, but it is nessesary. for the game to have an economy, to have all the ships have their place, no matter of far in the game you are, each ship must not become outdated, not become obselete. this is where the specialisation comes in. to do something better, you have to lose out on everything else. that way, that general-ish ship you had before is not at all useless after you picked that fancy stealth bomber. that idris your org is now running is not going to replace the avengers, cutlasses, and hornets you have been using up to that point. and this is how you make all ships relevant in their own rights. in elite, you get a lot to chose, but as a result, and as i can personaly attest, i have no incentive, nor need, to ever get out of my anaconda now. it is good enough to do everything, even without refitting better than any smaller ships. as such, all the other ships that are bellow it are rendered useless. a lot of wasted work, something SC definitly avoids chosing the branching option.
mansuy adrien I wouldn't say that all ships 'below' the Anaconda are rendered useless, just because I own an Anaconda. I own, or have owned every ship in Elite. I have a Corvette worth just under 1 billion, a Type 10 worth roughly the same, a Cutter and 30 or so other ships in various configurations but what really puts a smile on my face is going out in my little Viper MK III. I would urge anyone to buy a Viper, get it engineered and take it to a haz res, preferably with a friend. Great fun.
KABBARANKS oh I do not deny that it can be fun. Far from it. But this is not something the game is designed to do. This is something the game allows but by it's very design makes sub optimal. Its not going to prevent you from doing it but will keep hammering the point that you are just looking a lot of effectiveness and time. This is very important because when you have to do such things to do something new in the game, this means the game's profession and gameplay loops have collapsed. Elite's loops are very weak, due to its rushed nature down the later stages of development. Again, it's just like elite's player faction mechanic. It's "there" but is not acknowledged, not integrated correctly, gives no benefits nor allow you to control or just influence them. Its there, but since it is not acknowledged by the game and it's mechanics its may as well not be there. SC is trying to not fall under that, with activities that are usually reserved to player made events like racing, reporting, or player factions made a reality within the game's gameplay loops. That way the progression never stops and in every step of the way the guy who decides to tinker his modules just the right way to make the best damn racer in the galaxy will get rewarded.
The sad sap music and the "poor me" of this video is the funniest thing I've seen on UA-cam today. Thanks for the laughs.
I'm just glad to see a native 21:9 video.
They specialized the ships so that they could justify making more to keep the money rolling in. I don’t blame them for that. I blame them for increasing the scope of the game to the point where such tactics were necessary.
Dreamers are great. But dreamer untempered by reality end up doing what Chris Roberts did. He never had realistic expectations for the game. He never had a realistic timeline. And he never had a set path.
Hearing your voice say these things makes me believe you genuinely believe this. If I read this in text form I wouldn't think you have ever played it. I feel exactly the opposite of what you are saying, and it truly blows me away. It sucks we have lost a member of the community that was obviously very passionate. Hope you reconsider in 3 years.
Reading through the comments, it is absolutely amazing to me how much money some people have put in the game. We are talking 1-2 orders of magnitude greater than you would pay for a normal AAA title. I guess if you have that much money sunk in, it's going to be pretty hard to be objective. The human psyche finds a way to protect itself, after all. Well, hope it works out for you guys.
BIG BIG THKS for the 21:9 format properly done !
Thank you!
Did you catch the increasing boundaries/limitations and confinement? I wonder if I was too subtle now.
Please make more videos, you have such an even and clear minded disposition when it comes to the view of a game and certain aspects. You deserve more subs, keep it up!
Thank you, that's very generous!
You make some very good points. It's easy to say in retrospect but the game should have been much smaller in scope early on, released and the built upon and expanded over time. One sad thing is that crowd funding will be much less effective in the future, if not already so. A great potential lies in crowd funding for creativity where large publishers won't take the chance, just making more of the same. Thank you for your observations.
Awesome vid PoorShot! You nail it with the old ship commercials and how much its shifted from that.
Thanks! Those commercials were still fresh around the time I backed. They have always been a reminder to me, of what the project was when I backed. I felt they were a good measurement of how far its veered off course.
Zan - I agree. CIG is great at marketing and selling a game. Unfortunately, they are rubbish at actually developing said game.
wait wait wait. So NOW, after they are finally on a quarterly release schedule. With huge amounts of progress, people are wetting themselves and looking for a way out? I seriously want to know what kind of world you guys live in. Are there infinite genders? Is Trump a nazi? Is communism good?
In what world would a game like this not end up costing $200-250 million to make? I love kids who have obviously never worked on a long term project in their lives justify their ignorance out loud. It's amusing to me.
+KyPoorShot The fact that you have multiple video's on this topic shows just how disingenuous you really are. You are a complete moron lol, enjoy making your "not SC" content
8:35 this is a stupid argument, you can spend less money than you would on a hornet and get a bed. It's a ship for a specific role. I appreciate that you may have fallen out of love with this game but honestly a lot of this video to me seems like your expectations for the game were wrong, not that CIG has strayed from what they ever intended to do. I've been a backer since 2013 and I always expected CIG to keep pushing the tech as far as they could without getting forced into a release by a publisher.
I'm not a fan of what they're doing with warbonds and stuff either but talking about wanting every ship to be able to do everything is absolute madness, no one would make a space sim where that is the case. It just doesn't make any sense from a design perspective in this genre.
I think your heart is in the right place and I can understand why people may have fallen out of love with Star Citizen, but I think you've missed the mark by quite a ways with some of your points in this video.
I'm afraid you've completely missed all the promises CIG has broken. Or you're benefiting (from the current) model they've chosen. I hope for your sake, they don't continue to break promises. Or you'll be making your own video.
Or maybe the game is just going in a direction that you (KyPoorShot) aren't a fan of.
I'm not sure why you'd want every ship to be entirely modular- some ships still are. The starter ships aren't really meant to be... Some ships are aimed to perfect a role, other ships are intended to be jacks of all trades.
I understand that the product has changed, as you say, but some of us think the changes are for the better in the long run. I've been tracking development quite closely, and they're not just aimlessly going anywhere.
For instance. The beds. Yes, some ships have beds. Some do not. You can sleep on a ship with a bed. You cannot sleep on one without and will have to dock your ship in a proper place to ensure you come back at the same place. This isn't some nebulous concept, it's quite simple, and their stance is simple. A hornet will never have a bed: it's a fighter. You're not intended to sleep in it. There's no fridge for you to grab food inside it for stat buffs.
You make it seem like they're aimlessly drifting, and I've really not gotten that at all from them. They test new concepts and try out new ideas, but... you can't say the game is aimless when they don't even have something like bounty hunting in. They have to design it and test it and get feedback before it's solidified. What if their original ideas fall through? If they correct that, are they just blowing up all their progress? No... they're just modifying a concept to function better.
When you look at the project and decide it'll never become anything worthwhile, you're also ignoring all the progress it's made since its start. Slow progress, yes. But progress. Regardless, I can understand if the game isn't going the way you'd prefer. Maybe at a later time it may appeal to you again. We'll see, I suppose.
Yeah, half of the things he's talking about I'm like "were we even expecting the same game?". Maybe being very hyped makes you intepret things the way you want and some unscrupulous devs don't bother to correct you. We saw this with NMS.
OMG my carrier-based fighter doesn't have a bed.
How will I sleep?
Sooo....you want to give them money without expecting anything? Can you give the money to me instead? I will make sure I won´t give you anything....a few buggy demos maybe for 500 bucks the pick....come on~
Man has spoken the truth. EVERY single feature will require $$$ now. It's a pay to win game now. Sad. Robert's legacy will go down in flames.
Everyone wants the game to be good, and some want to believe that the game is good. They once could see a vibrant and colorful view of their beautiful universe, but now money blinds them, and the only color they see is green.
Elite Dangerous made almost all of these mistakes too. You have mangina fanboys who dogpile any critics, but they're generally guided by 'community managers' who use multiple accounts. Look it up, it's a phenomenon that's very real now. The worst offender used to be Kerbal Space Program. I posted an unedited interview with one of the devs - they were super mad because it made them look terrible (they admitted to stealing code, and said if people want payment for it they can sue them, because they're in Mexico thus have impunity under the law) then they claimed I 'hacked' their servers on Twitter to get their fanboys to brigade me. Screenshots are on my Twitter (@bashpr0mpt going back around 2012 I think) including evidence at the time I was flying over the fucking atlantic, they deleted the tweet quickly realising how stupid they looked but it was a good example of the toxic gatekeepers of 'community managers' and fanboy loyalty trumping rational and reasoned discussion. It's why we don't have good games anymore.
The age of information is dead long live the age of perception.
Just count the potential false influencers in this thread alone.
The one thing the bot shills cannot hide is their agenda, and the investment they are required to have in it.
i honestly don't even understand star citizen as a whole. i don't get why people are paying money for ships in a game that isn't even a game yet. i bought the aurora starter pack years ago expecting to be backing a game that would come out in a year or two but all ive seen is extremely slow development of the game itself, while producing plenty of absurdly priced ships to shove into the store. im not one of the players that is willing to drop money on owning stuff in a game. I'll grind the game all day to achieve them with in game currency, but im not going to take out my wallet to be part of a cool kids club of people that have also pulled out their wallets, and a large majority of the gaming community shares that sentiment.
so right now all star citizen seems like to me is a project that is doomed to alienate the every day average player before its ever released. like you said in the video, i want to start out with a barebones junker ship that i can turn into a legacy and modify for the task at hand. i want to grind for resources and explore and upgrade. there is no satisfaction in just... buying it all, or in knowing that someone else can just buy what you worked hard for. The only people who are still holding their breath and expecting a good game at this point are people who have invested tons of money into it
As a backer of 6 years ... This new trailer is so fucking missleading it makes me consider getting a refund if they don't give us anything close to this video untill the end of 2018.
Is it to late for the refund ?
@Jerry Man
What trailer are you referring to? The latest E3 trailer or the footage shown in this video? Either way, both are very misleading indeed.
Jibroni Gibironi e3
@Jerry Man
Yeah, that E3 trailer was a bunch of horse shit. I don't see how any honest gamer would get excited over it. None dare call that false advertising of course. You don't want to offend the SC devotional snow flakes.
2945: the journey begins.
Good to know there's a release date already.
Don't worry folks, Cyberpunk 2077 is on it's way, Starfield in in production and No Man's Sky is trying to fix it's mess.
I disagree with some of your points, but I see an overwhelming number of other reasons as to why anyone would want to get a refund right now. I wish you luck in getting a refund and I'm sure there will be many more backers trying to take this path too. I can't help feel there are going to be a lot of people, including myself that will get burned by this project.
As a recent backer I ate it hard. I'm concierge but I'm getting frustrated. I want it to do well and I really enjoy watching the development but as I hear more discontent it's definitely understandable how people feel. I'm slowly getting there myself.
small note... The Expanse got renewed on Amazon i believe!
I'm sorry buddy.
Saw this game back in 2012, looked like something I wanted, but I was going to wait and see how it developed. I'm happy I did, but very sorry for those like you who got burned by it, and the weird "cult-y" community around it that just shouts at any diverging perspectives.
Good on you for getting out, still sucks that you had this experience of seeing your dream disappear, I feel you.
I don't agree with some of the points you mentioned in your video, but damn that was an amazing video. Great quality dude.
Lol gone? It's never been existed anyway.
touché
KyPoorShot
One of your complain was about ship modularity, that feature has been promised since Crobber supposedly expanded his vision for the 1st time.
Guess what, it never existed in the prealpha to alpha.
So yeah technically it's not that the game ever had it, it's not lost or gone because it never was.
I wonder how many of the original KS backers still support this scam btw, less than 10% maybe?
True. I was operating under the assumption that promises made would be kept.
Also, have CIG and the community decided if this is pre-alpha or alpha yet? Someone accidentally said "beta" in a top 10 space games 2018, and there was Armageddon in the comments.
I guess I was using "gone" in a twisted opportunity-cost thought process. I understand now that it was ridiculous.
This ship modularity (your ship is a sum of its parts instead of your ship is a class that can get little buffs by putting on a better hat or new bewts) was when I left. They still have the old design doc in the engineering comm links, even though they switched to a "class plus bolt on buffs" system a couple years ago. Exactly what your video says -- progression is purely linear, and you can only buy it. The fact that they are falling short in absolutely every area makes it worse, but I gave up when they 180'd the ship modularity.
@Nebohtes - I agree. The paper/rocks/scissors was the biggest hook about the project. That's what separated it from the spaceship grind genre. When they went back on it, it reset the entire project.
Man, I feel like people on both sides are way too invested in this project. I put about 100 down for a Freelancer in 2014. I've casually kept up to date on the project, stopping back in every now and again. Nobody should ever put $1000 into a video game, full stop. If you're going to, don't put it into a kickstarter. People like that getting refunds I couldn't recommend more. I don't mind that my 100 is gone. I wasn't looking for an ultra modular and complicated space sim, I'm just interested in the idea of going from ship to planet, exploring locations and interacting with players. I think people got very emotionally invested in this project, and it's super unhealthy. It's an ambitious and spotty entertainment product, that's all there is. The rest of the debarkle is what people have built into it. I have no doubt that SC will not deliver on all their promises. I don't really mind. If they figure out 3 full systems in the next 4 years, with basic gameplay loops and pretty locales, then I'll be happy. That will be worth my 100. There's no point in using the success or failure of a project like this as an emotional crutch.
Sage advice. I got wrapped-up in the moral quandary of integrity, potential and respect among differing opinion.
You are not thinking clearly. Whether you spent $100 or $10,000 you expected something for that. That something wasn't . .we will let CRoberts sell us one thing , lie to us, waste the $ and change the terms of the deal etc etc. So you should have asked for a refund at the point you realised (assessed) you were no longer getting what you were sold. To make excuses for CRoberts and walk back on the reasons you bought in the first place is to be made a fool of by someone who has enriched himself by lying and taking advantage of tens of thousands of gamers. By all means right off the expenditure but dont lie to yourself and say it was what you paid for. Everyone gets taken for a ride or makes decisions that dont pay off but realise you need to be honest with yourself.
It seems the UK has its own George Broussard. That's not a compliment.
This was youtube recommended so much that I finally watched it to see what you had to say. I think your overall reason for why you don't want the game anymore is completely valid.
Your examples range between factually misleading and outright false, however, and I think that's what's getting on people's nerves.
Personally, at the beginning of the project back in 2012, I promised myself that I was only going to spend what a game should cost. My package is still worth $55 to this day. As a result, there are precisely two things that get me down about the game. The first is issues with the speed of development (which we seem to have finally overcome this year). The second is how they're currently stringing us along regarding in-game ship buying, and how the community at large doesn't seem to even take notice of it. These issues are both solved by stepping back and playing other games for the time being. While not ideal, it's not dealbreaking for me. I still derive most of the value from learning about game development and discussing the game itself, whether I am or am not playing.
Aside from these temporary grievances, my feedback has always been honored. I can point to an instance were my feedback seemingly directly affected change in the game, even though CIG can't directly confirm that sort of thing. Other times where I was part of a body of feedback that did, and so on. Whatever the game-mechanical outcome is, it is clear that they consider constructive feedback like mine and work with it. Because my vote counts, I do not give up on the project. When we stop voting, that's when there is no hope.
Good on you for leaving the Cult of Star Citizen.
I have been fighting with these scammers for 5 months for a refund..
Dean Daniel is this honestly the type of response you want the SC community to be known for?
It's not the kind of response you need but it's the kind of response whoever dumb enough to pour obscene amounts of money into this project deserves.
Scam..how? The game isnt out...
advancedlamb precisely.
how is the game a scam when the game isnt finished yet and they are showing incredible progress in development for the last year? keep begging for a refund tho... CiG will just ignore you becuase you are too stupid to read the ToS......
If SC was anything at all like the trailers they make for it, it would be the best games ever made, but unfortunately at the moment there's really not much to do at all, especially if you own just 1 ship, after an hour you've done and seen everything, right now the only way to have fun with SC is to pay thousands of dollars to get your hands on all those ships. CIG will continue to say that you can buy ships in game with the next update, but when the patch arrives oh we couldn't do it this time it will be next patch and so on and so forth.
Johnny Patterson you can do bunker assaults on foot with other players. But you have to coordinate outside the game to get such a thing organized since there’s no objective matchmaking. And even then there aren’t any true objectives, you’re just going to a base and killing everyone in it and leaving.
Beyond that you can....basically either shoot a laser at a rock for an hour or fly around a city to look at it. That’s about all you have for gameplay.
After six years of development. That’s all they have.
CIG burned through so much of good faith with their warbond / lti nonsense. Another broken promise.
Yeah. I'm afraid more lies ahead.
Wow as someone who kick started another game called Hex: Shards of Fate, this is eerily similar situation. But this game doesn't have the funding it once had and is now dying in the process of mismanagement. They promised us a game focusing on PVE/Raiding in a TCG which was an interesting idea and everything at the start was fine. They showed progress but nothing as a complete game we got 2 adventure zones which where essentially taste of what PVE was going to be like but after adventure zone 2 came out radio silence. But everything they've done I've said it was a bad idea.
1. Hey we're going to launch a game where the only way to progress is pay to win, sure people can trade gold for the premium currency (and with a large player base at the time it was possible to get one booster pack every 2 hours of play). The problem is I told them that the auction house is pure cancer, and this gold for premium trade is complicated and would require the player to use the mailing system and ergo understand mailing someone in game which most people won't do. I told them putting it on steam was a horrible idea, but everyone told them pushing the game to more communities is a good idea. Nope the game is mostly negative and maybe 80 users dwindling down more and more each day.
2. They said PVE was too hard to develop A MAJOR pa, around Set 5? People seemed fine with this when before they promised 2 PVP sets and an adventure zone per year. So they just dropped adventure zone and people who backed the game got screwed, those outside of the pro tier as there was raiding or guild leader tier had an 200$ account that had less of an advantage then a 75$ account bonus because the 75$ bonus was at least in the game. So slowly a lot of the backers where getting mad and me (I picked pro which is a free draft for life each week). But the white knighting of everyone who didn't buy the PVE bonuses is there, fuck we have people like Jeff Hoogland (pro-mtg player) just spitting on the people who backed and just tells people "they're just selling an idea, they don't have to give you what they offered". But he tries to promote the game off sites that sells cards, which most likely means he is going to be part of problem 3.
3. Muh value people is the problem Star Citizen and Hex both have, the problem with these ships having a real life value now is it's all people care about. If ship is made for X role, and it costs more then Y and Z. It should be better and saying no to it you're talking bad about the game. This is the same root cause but different in Hex, people care about the grey market so much since the company doesn't care (and preferable because the auction house takes 15% of the price off, so it's better to trade your cards grey market which hex won't see a profit off of.) So a lot of people at the time near release where selling cards for 20$ having people pay the paypal transaction fee which was less and where getting the cards directly for money and hexent saw none of that money. I would complain constantly about this and told them they had to make the AH seem more appealing, but of course card traders and muh value defenders where against this. But the problem is people fail to see a game that is dead = that 20$ card no longer exists and is now a valueless non-entity.
I used to make decks and articles for the game too but I couldn't really support a company that fucked over the massive user base so I deleted my you tube videos
www.hexprimal.com/hex-pve-campaign-necrotic-warrior-guide/
What's left is a husk of an idea that was great.
I remember back when I used to play Star Conflict a lot. Everybody was raving in chat about Star Citizen and how it would kill star conflict and they had all pitched in their money for their exclusive rewards. Having been burned by early access games in the past, the game frankly sounded too ambitious and way too good to be true, or it was years away from getting anywhere near what they were promising and the technology would be out of date by then. A part of me was rather hoping that tiny team of overnight millionaires would be able to pull it off and deliver everything they promised, and more. There won't be a "told you so" from me in this case, only a sorry it didn't work out, a part of me did hope it was for real.
These days I only put money to companies that have proven they can deliver everything they promise, or at least make honest attempts at it. Companies like Digital Extremes with Warframe, or CDprojectR and cyberpunk. Companies that have yet to truly disappoint me in any significant way.
Join the dark side, get Elite:dangerous. Its not the"greatest game ever" but you do get to fly spaceships. oh an it works (mostly) ;)
It's definitely fun. I'm excited about "Beyond" updates. Excited that the basic "careers" are getting revamped.
10000000 miles wide, 1 inch deep.... nothing more to say about ED but I guess its still more then CIG has to offer.
much more than an inch considering it is a sandbox where you make your story instead of it being made for you.
"you do get to fly spaceships", yeah, and it's actually the only thing you can do 😂
They've recreated the whole of the milky way with full scale planets.
If you're a fan of space games you should recognize it's a remarkable achievement.
Im glad that there are more and more ppl who were in this project waaaay longer then most of us ( read from early 2012/2013) who are slowly opening their eyes and they start seeing the real picture. Not the CIG painted one - everything is fine, and we have next update behind corner, btw would you like to buy a new ship?
When I asked at the end of 2016, and kept asking through most of 2017 where is the 3.0 and what happened with "we will have it by the Xmass 2016 statement" First I was attacked by whales and white knights and other rabid fanatics, and then after few months of me being persistent and poking them constantly about missed datelines, missed promises etc. i got banned - on 10 years :D. I dont mind, if i saved at least 1 guy not to pledge then it was worthy..
But here is the interested part: When i tried to ask other creators about some of those things on twitch for example - it was a same thing. I was called negative and i ended up again being banned from most of "neutral" content creators such are WTFosaurus, Twerk17, BaldGamer.. Because how did i dare asking wth were they doing whole 2017 if they released 3.0 is such piss poor shape and then had to waste another 6 months just to plug the worst bugs ( and they still are not finished)....
I will not even start about CIG constantly pushing back selling ships within game, for aUAC, not forcing backers with only starter ships to go and buy something if they want to actually play missions, trade or mine.
I've been trying to get my request for a refund SIGHTED for the last 6 months. No reply but generic messages. Thing is i am terminally ill and have only been given another year at most, so at this rate i'll never see the release. Not to mention the game has greatly changed since i first dropped a dime back in 2012 (one of the first backers), the required specs, the ToS, the whole goddamn roadmap. I explained in my email how i had not updated in quite a while as it now goes beyond my PC specs (and no fkn way i'm wasting money upgrading to a system i'll never use), i had not agreed to any new ToS since i HAD been able to update (so new refund policies do not apply here). And that i'd rather avoid the grey market and turn over the content i have aquired legitimately..... but it looks like that's my only option now as i am positive i am being ignored.. Maybe i should have just asked for the refund and not mentioned my limited time, seems like they are just waiting me out ignoring the request. Honestly has taken me from being one of thier biggest advocates to wanting to shame them for the attitude the company has recently developed
I'm sorry. I don't know how else to respond. That's a very difficult situation to be facing. I don't know how I'd handle that kind of news.
Thanks for sympathising, it was a whammy for sure. Shit happens is the best way i can wrap my head around it. I might not like the idea but i've become accustomed to it. What is worrying me now is 'taking care of things' before i go hence the refund request... and now more than ever, the principals are more important to me, integrity, decency, honour... I have backed these guys hard in cash and support and feel it was only reciprocated while they were struggling, now they have become this behemoth all that humility has disappeared. Leaves me feeling rather betrayed. Besides all of that.., Ken Lord's pinned post pretty much sums up everything perfectly!.
dracael006 Sorry to read this, we all think we have all the time in the world but life is over in a flash. I hope you are able to spend quality time with your loved ones this year. Take care buddy.
The things playing on my mind, a guilt even, is how i pushed the hype-train so hard once i first saw CR's original concept video, personally introducing my gaming community to this new awesome thing never seen before!!!..., yeah, i got them interested and then the story took over... to the point where now there are 30 odd people having invested over 60k (i'm not kidding). We've seen every trait that set them aside from the beasts just dissipate one by one till we're left with another 'typical AAA publisher" type they ironically STILL take the piss out of themselves... (EA, Origin etc...)
Cheers mate, that is exactly my plan.
These commercials exist to attract gullable people, that's their sole function.
The minute they said they were going to use Cry Engine was the minute I said: Nope!!!
The minute I heard in a LevelCap video that a ship in SC was going for $350 I fucking called it. I said that it was fucking insane and nothing virtual in a game should ever cost *that* much, and I ate so much shit from like 50 people insulting me in that video's comment section.
I knew it. I knew SC was a sinking ship when they started charging exorbitant prices for space ships. Say what you want about "evil publishers", but they're there to reign in the developers. Star Citizen is what happens when there's no publisher, an endless supply of money and no release date. They're never going to release Star Citizen. At least not in the way people have hyped it up to be.
Every year they'll find something "new and exciting" to add to the game, then that new feature will break the game, then they'll waste precious time and money to fix the game, then in that time they'll think of something else to add, and it'll break the game again, and on and on that nightmare goes on.
WAT3RMALON3
... Did you even watch the video?
Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you claim to know more than the people who've been backing the project since its inception and are now validly disappointed with the state of the game?
Honestly I don't know how people like you can live with themselves defending a cash grabbing scheme like SC. How do you even live with yourself? You're saying it's okay for the SC devs to charge $27k for a fucking *game* ??? Wake up you moron. This isn't the Star Citizen Forums echo chamber.
I personally think you're wrong in many ways. But you are a good example for what is going on. Many originally backers, including me, share a feeling of disappointment and it is somewhat different for everyone. I think this is caused by the realization that the dream we shared has a chance to become a very shallow reality. It is hard to pinpoint specific causes for that. But the signs are there.
My personal concern it that Chris Roberts way of thinking is already outdated and his vision has become a limiting factor. Apart from that, marketing has destroyed a lot of the attachment backers had, not just to the project but also to the company.
It started as a big family but turned into exactly what CR was running from: A Publisher.
I want to start a Go Fund Me page to get this guy a goddamned hug. Right in the feels with this one.
You said the things that needed to be said.
Because the forum hasn't been full of it since day 1 right? Please.
In the old forum/new Spectrum and Reddit, you get banned and silenced. Unlike here. Enjoy your freedom here.
One word: Respect !
Well said and agreed on your opinion 100%
I`m so glad I refunded the money I spent.
I'm glad for you! Wish I hadn't been so patient with them.
Great video finally someone who speaks his mind about this game! I've been waiting way to long for this game i personally don't think this game ever gonna be finished. I got the same exact feeling about the possibility and I believed in the dream, buth painfully enough it's just a dream and definitely not to be realized by CIG.
I'm afraid you're very correct in your assessment.
So, let me get this right, star citizen actually sells preordered ships? On a game thats not even close to finished?
How can they promise ships that wont change on a game where the balance isnt even made?
This shit show is so ridiculous
I tried, I tried really really hard to complain. People in the community, especially reddit spectrum and discord, threaded me or kicked me out if I speak the truth. This is basically a religious cult. These people who don’t judge the game objectively make the game like this. Now, the rush of buying ship has gone, and I don’t look forward to refund since I didn’t put too much money in the game, and the bad emotion during refund would be really bad to ruin my day.
I am very conservative to put me money in the game, because the scope and funding are so considerable that makes me feel this is not normal. Years later, it goes worse than I thought. Stop bs about the difference between pledge and investment. In this case, there is no difference. I bet lots of people like me are investors rather than suckers....sorry backers. Guys, I hope you take a step back and think. And don’t say this is Alpha or Pre-Alpha, based on the amount of content, it is like a 2-year work
I'm $500 into it. $100 on the first Kickstarter run, and added another $400 after that on the website. I'm never getting that money back. I just have to come to terms with that.
Hey! You got death threats too? Its apparently a pretty decent sized club for people being critical of star citizen.
well, there is a fery tiny ammount of people so obsesed with the game that they are ready to try to defend it when they realy dont have to. the game does not need to be defended, it just needs time. these are the rules of the AAA space, rules not everybody knowns or came to expect. on both end of the spectrum we have delusional people going apeshit trying to either destroy the game or mindlessly protect it. the majority to watches and judge without too much noise, sometime even tries discussing to the other side about the how and whats of their descision, trying to see the truth behind it, because there is plently on both sides. sadly, when the fanatic side takes over, they make it look like the entire camp is just like them, that all 2 million backers are religious white knights, and that all the detractors are mindless followers of derek in his quest for personal revenge. this is very very far from the truth, at yet, this is the view we are always presented, because it is the one that gets the most views. in the end, it always comes down to profit. not the one of the developers but the one of those who stand to report on it. instead of reporting on the right criticism or encouragemenet the game can have they just go full fuckforce either way to draw as many views as they can.
no matter the pledge, we all got into this mess. it was an investement, and at least for me i knew it would not be safe nor be fast. the only thing i can do is discuss, observe, and wait, until the developement ran its course, like all AAA, and we get the results. so far, and from my experience, the game has not deviated from the normal AAA game progression, so i can hold out hope for it turing for the better.
Exact same thing happened to me...and I thought they acted just like cultists as you mentioned. DO NOT DARE criticize, thats life in their little pay-to-win bubble
Man I appreciate this video. This is my take on the whole mess, and I'm not a backer. Let me explain. I used to play EVE online and that game has multiple majour problems that make me leave the game and come back months later. So when SC was announced I was excited as hell, since I liked freelancer, wing commander etc. But I've never really been in a place in my life where I"m able to donate money to a company. Especially a company that is demanding MASSIVE amounts of money for their donation pledges. I mean really what does $20 get you? Nothing. But what does $1000 get you? A base ship? What a joke.
Anyway, now with these $30,000 pledges, being able to buy every ship in the game, having huge advantages in-game over people who are new to the game, makes me not want to play it. People are basically beating the game before it ever gets released, if it even gets released. People just want to play this game so bad that the rich idiots out there will drop tens of thousands of dollars on it because "it looks cool". But looking cool is not enough. EVE online also looks cool. And that game makes me want to smash shit with a sledge hammer. What's going to make SC any different? Will the storyline be any good? Will the things you do become super repetitive? Oh sure the game looks nice. But there's nothing to it. Hell there's not even a real universe built for it yet. Why haven't they been showcasing the planets and all the different places you can go? All they seem to be doing is showcasing their ships and promoting themselves online through their gold encrusted youtube channel. Nearly 6 years and there is virtually no content, when other titles have been outright released with DLC and majour polishing in that time.
My real concern here is, how am I supposed to enjoy the game play, especially in multiplayer, if you can just go ahead and buy every ship in the game? What's it going to be like to have to do battle with the whales that just buy their way to the finish line? Pay to win strategies are always a fail, because it defeats the entire purpose of playing the game. Sure there will be a fringe market that gets their rocks off just flying around and looking pretty while actually doing absolutely nothing. But for the 99% of other gamers, and especially newcomers to the game, will it even be worth it? We already have 100,000+ backers that will be galavanting around space in some pretty serious hardware. And if SC is as open ended as EVE, there will be a pirate feeding frenzy on the newbs who didn't back. There may even be hatred to those who didn't back, like the really really rich backers will believe truly that the entire game belongs to them, and scum sucking bottom feeders who didn't or couldn't back shouldn't even be allowed to play it. SC has been breeding elitism at rapid rates and it's horribly obvious in the comments section of youtube channels covering Star Citizen. And I absolutely laugh my ass off at people who are STUPID enough to back this gentlemens club project, where only the rich succeed. I have absolutely zero interest whatsoever in buying and playing a fancy pay to win game. It will look nice as long as your machine is able to run it smoothly, but it will have no substance to it. After 6 years you still can't undock and explore around, even in the alpha. This game is a complete joke and even if they do manage to fix it and release it, I can't justify playing a game where thousands of people have already purchased their way to the top, and continue to do so. It's going to be a loosing battle for anyone that doesn't fork over massive amounts of cash.
It would seem Derek Smart made a better game afterall, and he has and had all the reasons 6 years ago to call Chris Roberts a hack. Looks like he was right. And Derek still managed to release a game he built by himself. He has accomplished everything Chris has set out to do. Imagine if Derek had put his game up on kickstarter, imagine what Universal Combat would have looked like with 350 million in backing. All I can do is laugh my ass off at this whole situation and say "told ya so" to all the idiots who bought into this scumsucking train wreck. HAH!