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Sun and Moon Letters in Arabic
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- This video is the first of a playlist I created called "pedagogy"-little videos that teach things in new and hopefully more digestible ways. Besides, Arabic Sun and Moon letters are super cool to look at linguistically. I'm experimenting with different types of content so please let me know what you think of videos like this in the description down below!
⸻ MUSIC ⸻
"Warm Horizon" by Purrple Cat
⸻ REFERENCES ⸻
• [diagram of the tongue] - www.visiblebod...
• [Sun & Moon consonants in Quranic Arabic] - • Understanding the Sun ...
Like I said, if you have any information about how your dialect of Arabic might do some of these things differently, leave a reply under this comment for learners of the language and I'll edit this comment accordingly!
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• ج is a moon consonant in Classical Arabic, but in other modern dialects, it can still be a sun consonant when pronounced /dʒ/ (like the J in "job")
In my dialect, ج is usually solar despite being pronounced the same as MSA /dʒ/.
Also ال isn't just used as a definite article. It's also short for الي or in MSA الذي so it's used with verbs as well.
@@somedude5990 Super interesting, what dialect do you speak?
@@SundrobroccSudanese
I'm libyan and in my dialect لهجة البطنان it's only spoken in east of libya and a slightly different but yet close in west north Egypt we replace the ق sound with the القاف اليمينية like an Egyptian ج , and we other than leaving the همزة in the end of words sometimes and sime variations in pronouns and nouns and conjunctions we work with the exact same standard Arabic, that's way we win most of the qur'an contests
And we allow to start with a سكون but it's optional
as someone who has literally never expressed any interest in learning arabic, this video is so interesting !
That means so much :) Arabic is really such an interesting language
As a native Arabic speaker and someone who studied the "Quranic Arabic", you explained it PERFECTLY! Thank you so much, that was enjoyable. 👏🏻👏🏻
I have something to add:
There is a sentence that combines all the moon letters, which is "أبغ حجك وخف عقيمهُ" And any letter that doesn't exist in this sentence, is one of the sun letters!
Awesome advice, thank you so much!
It always made intuitive sense as a native speaker because it's hard to pronounce the ل before sun consonants (hard to transition your tongue between ل and a sound from the front of your mouth).
Same reason I was taught English uses an instead of a before vowel sounds: pronuncability. But that could be wrong.
Exactly! It's because Lām is also pronounced with the tip of the tongue, so your tongue can get overwhelmed trying to pronounce two of those sounds in succession. The same thing happens in my Spanish dialect, where when speaking quickly, I might pronounce "El regalo" (The gift) as er-regalo for the same reason it happens in Arabic. The English phenomenon you describe happens for a very similar reason, though some varieties like AAVE might remove the /n/ sound as in "A apple".
This way is actually so much easier even as a native speaker i never really grasped the concept this video made it much more straight forward
Super glad!
man this is so good, i've straight up never seen anything other than memorisation for this
Right!? It was the same thing with me when I was first learning Arabic until I realized this
I was a little taken aback by the disembodied tongue, but it’s actually a pretty cool illustration!
LMAO for some reason I thought nothing of it when I was making the video until literally all of my friends said the same thing you did.. Guess I've just looked at the human mouth wayyy too much in my years learning about linguistics
😂😂
Great informative video 👏🏻
In my native dialect, which is spoken in northern Morocco (including Tangier, Tetouan, Chefchaouen, and the Jeblis...), we have more solar letters because many lunar letters have shifted toward solar letters. Many lunar letters have almost entirely become solar letters in most words, while some have shifted only in specific words or in informal and fast speech. These include the lip letters: (m م), (b ب), (p پ), (v ڤ), and (f ف); the tip of the tongue letters: (dj دج), (j/"zh" ج), and (ch تش); and the back of the tongue letters: (k ك), (g ڭ), and (q ق). These have completely become solar letters in most words in our northern dialect. For example, we say "əb-bāb" or just "b-bāb" instead of "L-bāb" (the door), and "əm-mlāħ" or just "m-mlāħ" instead of "L-məlħa" (the salt). However, there is an exception: we say "L-ma" instead of "m-ma" (the water). We also say "g-gəbs" instead of "L-gəbs" (the gypsum).
In my dialect, especially in informal speech, the hamza (ء) seems to be considered a solar letter. For example, we might casually say "i-isəm" (the name). However, due to recent influences from Modern Standard Arabic, the pronunciation has become more lunar, as seen in the use of "L-ism" in more formal settings. This shift towards a lunar pronunciation happens to a lesser extent with the other letters mentioned earlier. Therefore, the hamza might be evolving to hold characteristics of both solar and lunar pronunciations in my dialect.
As for the letters (kh خ) and (ħ ح), they are often lunar letters but can sometimes become solar letters in informal and fast speech, especially between sentences and in some words (e.g., "kh-khtilāf" and "ħ-ħtimāl"). Additionally, (gh غ) and (ɛ ع) are lunar letters but can become solar in some northern accents in a few words during informal and fast speech (e.g., "gh-ghtiyāl" and "ɛ-ɛanqōd"). The letter (h ه) can also become a solar letter in rapid, informal speech in very few words (e.g., "h-holandi").
Thus, the letters that remain completely lunar in my dialect are: (w و), (y ي), and almost (h ه). The letters that are not completely lunar are: (kh خ), (ħ ح), (gh غ), and (h ه). The hamza (ء) seems to be in between. The solar letters include those mentioned previously in addition to those known in Classical Arabic : (L ل), (n ن), (t ت), (ţ ط), (đ ض), (d د), (s س), (s̈ ص), (sh ش), (r ر), and (z ز), And all of them are articulated with the tip of the tongue like you explained. However, the following three do not exist in the Moroccan dialect:
(dh ذ) = (d د), (đh ظ) = (đ ض), and (th ث) = (t ت).
Wow this is absolutely incredible
Something like this has actually happened in my variety of Spanish (Cuban), where /r/ and /l/ when before consonants assimilate, so you have words like "arco" (bow) being pronounced [agko]-I guess it's not too uncommon of a process if it's happening in other places too! That's amazing, thanks for teaching me :)
this is very cool for me!! I've been learning arabic for some years and my school also taught arabic, but they never brought this topic up (or anything close to the sun and moon letters), yet we understand and know very well when to use al- or the other ones!! my guess is because as a muslim we're familiar with the quran and this thing is like automatically planted in our brain without us knowing lmao!!
That would make sense!
This is one of the things I love about linguistics. So many languages have rules that come simply from adjusting to make it less awkward to say something. It’s why French has liaison, Mandarin has you raise the first of two third-tone characters to second-tone, it’s why English has us saying “an” instead of “a” before a vowel sound.
Yeah!!! Humans can be pretty lazy which can be reflected in the purported efficiency of certain phonologies. so cool
we used to memorize this using "جحا غبي فك مخه وقع" where they're all moon characters, ofc we natives don't have to constantly check which is which, we just learn it when we are younger as a form of theory i would say
I've heard of that sentence!
literally never tried to learn arabic for even 10 seconds and yet this video is really interesting, thank you for teaching me this concept
Arabic is so cool, glad you liked it!
ahh nice the same sort of concept exists with latin and it developed almost always because of the pragmatics of speech and how your tongue moves to make the sound more easily.
Yeah!
Fantastic, a nice preview of the [coronal] feature and a great example of how some basic linguistic theory helps language learners. I particularly enjoyed the example of how ج behaves differently as /dʒ/ or /g/. Great presentation!
Thank you so much! That's why I totally believe foreign language classes in schools could benefit so much from a little extra effort being put in to teach linguistic material relevant to the language at hand.
Your videos are so good, that I think you are my new favorite person c:
AW
You have such a great elegant accent
Thank you!
I've never tried to learn arabic, but this was super easy to understand. Also, I love your videos!!
Thank you so much! The feedback really means a lot :)
بوركت
I´ve never been able to really understand sun and moon consonants but this vid rlly made it clear! Thanks for the vid and keep up the good work
AWW THANKS ISCEAULT
so coronal assimilation
exactly!
I love your videos
Hopefully more Arabic video from you.
Youre a good teacher.
Thank you so much. I watched this basically right before trying to learn it. It will help me tons.
I'm not studying Arabic, but gotta admit, that's interesting nonetheless
Algorithm brought me here and i was not disappointed
Hello bro, since you're Moroccan could you do a video about Tamazight if you know anything about it? I love your clear and simple way to explain things
I'm actually not Moroccan! Just know a bit about the area and why Darija as a language came to be.
A video on Tmazight sounds awesome though since I love that language so much, but I'd have to look into it and educate myself much more. Sounds fun though, so maybe one day!
I'm assuming Jim being counted as a moon consonant when it's pronounced as /dZ/ could be because it used to be a palatal consonant, which doesn't use the tip of your tongue, but then developed into an affricate (and then fricative in some dialects) or into a velar plosive depending on the dialect
exactly right!
please do more like this,thanks
What about this type of video do you like? :)
@@Sundrobrocc The fact that it's a comprehensive brief summary.
It reminds me of the Medinah books (I'm hoping you know what those are).
@@Sundrobrocc The way you explained it,and compared a detail to 2 different dialects
ماشا لله Maşa alloh
* ما شاء الله
@@shwanmirza9306 Oh jazakallah xêr ❤️
I almost came up with this as a kid. Sun letters sounds I've noticed can't be said until you release "the sound". So like you can say sssssssssssss but you can't say kkkkkkkkkkkkkk. You need a break between each kuh or else you're not gonna say anything. That break, i thought, was the lah in al.
That's pretty cool! The only thing is that there's still some "unbreakable" sounds that are moon letters like ghhhh or xxxxx (غ or خ). Cool observation though! In linguistics, sounds that "can't be broken" are called continuants.
@Sundrobrocc cool! I'm studying linguistics myself (1st year)! I'll be sure to use "continuants" as a flex when we get there 2nd year (3 months from now)
LOLL
Also to explain why the breaking happens, it's because sounds like /k/ require you to stop the flow of air in your mouth and then quickly release it, while sounds like /s/ don't require you to stop airflow. You can hear this if you pay attention when you pronounce something like [aka] slowly-try it! You'll notice that when you start pronouncing the /k/, air stops, but then starts flowing again when you're done pronouncing it. That's why you can continuously pronounce /s/ (hence why they're called continuants), but you can't do the same with /k/ since pronouncing /k/ intrinsically relies on you stopping and allowing air to flow through your mouth :)
I read the title and thought it was translating pokemon sun and moon into arabic help😭😭😭
LOLL
4:22 Why are you pronouncing as the alveolar trill, [r], instead of as the alveolar flap, [ɾ]? Arabic speakers use the latter
Because he's not a native speaker and you shouldn't expect his pronunciation to be perfect.
Also in my dialect we usually use the trill.
In Quaranic Arabic both are used depending on the Qira'a and the haraka. They're called الراء المفخمة and الراء المرققة
Taps are really abrupt so I just wanted to emphasize the pronunciation for learners
I pronounce /ʃ/ and /ʒ/ with tounge-tip down. Do you know how common this is and if Arabic dialects do this at all?
I believe this is the "normal" pronunciation of those sounds. Assuming General American (though I don't see why other dialects would be different), /ʃ/ is technically not pronounced with the tip of the tongue (as in by an apical realization) but rather more with the blade of the tongue (so tending more towards laminal). In fact, some describe post-alveolar sounds as featuring a "convex" (bunched-up kinda) tongue. To my knowledge, this isn't really a dialectal thing, just something that varies person to person. Post-alveolar sounds are kinda goofy, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. When it comes to Arabic, it doesn't matter since in the end, they're coronal sounds (pronounced with the general front of the tongue as opposed to the general back area like with velar consonants), which are the ones that assimilate.
Sorry for the long answer lmk if you have any other questions!
very cool pattern but i can’t lie that tongue graphic scared me
HAHAHA PABLO
3:14 that explains why I found your pronouncation of MSA a bit off, usually when Darija speakers speak MSA, They tend to have different stress patterns then Mashriqi Arabic speakers, for example in two syllabels words with a final closed syllable i. e. مكان makan, جميل jameel, darija speakers stress the first syllable, MAkan JAmeel, while Mashriqi Arabic speakers stress the last syllable maKAN , jaMEEL.
I'd like to add that this is just my obesrvation, So take it with a grain of salt
I actually personally would stress the "last" syllable in جميل since for me (and many other Moroccan Darija speakers) there is no short 'a' vowel in jmil. This vowel loss is what causes a lot of stress differences.
For example, Standard Arabic هنا has stress on the first syllable (HUnā), but because the first vowel is lost in Darija, the "stress" shifts to the /a/ as in "hna" ("stress" in quotation marks since "hna" only has one syllable)
Cool stuff and thanks for the comment!
Hi, I noticed that ل is a sun letter, but what does that mean exactly? does the ل assymalate to become... ل?
It doesn't really matter if you consider it a sun letter or a moon letter here's why:
With moon letters the ل is pronounced normally as is with its sukoon and the letter after it is also left as is with its original haraka
With sun letters, the ل in ال is silent and the sun letter after it is pronounced lengthened, with tashdeed ّ on it. So السماء is pronounced like اسَّمَاء (alsamaa becomes assamaa, note the double s)
Now what is tashdeed? In pronunciation it means lengthening the consonant but in spelling it's basically spelling shorthand for when you have a letter with sukoon followed by itself with haraka. For example كَذَّبَ is equivalent to كَذْذَبَ.
So if you consider ل a sun letter then اللام is pronounced الَّام or الْلَام
If you don't consider it a sun letter then it's pronounced الْلَام
In both cases it's the same thing. In short it doesn't matter because the l sound assimilating into another l sounds exactly the same as two l sounds independently
It simply does not change! Somedude's comment explains it very well
lil bro is so smart
JIJ BENT SLIMMER ☝️🤓
@@Sundrobrocc Dankuwel
thanks man in 1st grade I did NOT want to learn these I was allergic to all things memorization, especially arabic
LOLL real
Is there a reason why L is traditionally considered a sun consonant? I guess the place of articulation checks out, but phonetically it would make no difference if it was moon.
It's exactly about the place of articulation-it just makes more sense to consider it a sun letter since it fits in with all the other ones, if that makes sense :)
What's the font used here? It looks like Lemonada but I'm not sure
• Montaser Arabic for most of the Arabic and the English captions in the example words
• Lora for the rest of the English
• Mirza only for the Arabic translation of "Sun/Moon Letters" (الْحُرُوف الشَّمْسِيَّة and الْحُرُوف القَمَرِيَّة)
:)
@@Sundrobrocc Thanks a lot!
I feel like ل doesn’t fit into ash shamsi
Because it’s closer to b and w and not d
1:32 jsh
in what way?
@@Sundrobrocc
Like I mean it does include the tip
but it sounds more like the qamari letters
and all of the shamsi letters or most of them are like the Rs Ts Ss Ds Zs
Or like Z or S, or T and D, L sounds more like the. B, W, F, G, K, Q stuff
It sounds like AL-QAMARI
I suppose that could just have to do with sound symbolism-maybe you associate /l/ with the word القمر since it's pronounced in al-qamar. Linguistically, /l/ belongs with the rest of the shamsiyy since it's a coronal consonant (pronounced with the tip of the tongue), but in the case of /l/, it doesn't really matter what you treat it as since it'll be the same (al-lughat for example) no matter what :)
Raa’ / Rā’ = ر Zaa’ / Zā’ = ز also rhyme!
Zay (which it seems that you pronounce as Zey) < Zāy / Zaay < Zā’ / Zaa’ for ز
isn't it a dialectical sound, right?! The same as some dialects say the verb Jaa’a / Jā’a جَاءَ as جاي Jāy or Jay (as I don't speak ᶜArabic, I noticed someone that wrote that way)!
Perhaps adopted from the surrounding Semitic sound?! As it doesn't happen to the Raa’ / Rā’ ر right?!
what do you mean?
What I wanted to say was that:
Zaa’ ز goes with Raa’ ر in the ᶜArabic Alphabet. Therefore, it seems odd that calling popularly ز as Zaay or Zay rather than Zaa’ but like Aramaic and Hebrew, who call it Zayin like the ᶜArabic ع ᶜayn, in which Aramaic and Hebrew they call it ᶜayin. Or similarly adopted in a natural way as Zaa’ for ز became to be called Zaay!
It seems to me the sound Zaay or Zay is adopted from these surrounding sounds, probably Syriac, that's a dialect of Aramaic.
Is there any information that you know about?!
Since you are an Arabic speaker (which is probably a Muslim) is it halal to transcribe the whole Quran into IPA? (if you aren't muslim you can ignore this comment)
am not muslim so i won't answer since i don't know 100% :)
:0
Why does it to that?
Answer me immediately
cuz gang mess wit it
try to say abbait without sounding like a newborn
¿quien es jimel? ¿tú lo conoces?????
EL ESTÁ AQUÍ CONTIGO? WESH HUWA HNA WLLA LLA??
Knew this video was coming, You are a predictable one at best
Knew you were going to commetnt. You Are a s7r at best.
!oɘbiv ɘɔiИ
woah thats cool