I love the idea that influential, well educated egyptians knew Minoan Linear A as part of some sort of base curriculum to be able to participate in commerce and diplomacy.
As far as modern interpretations go, the scribes were a very important professional group in the Bronze Age world, able to write and speak in multiple languages, while the elites mostly were not. There are personal notes from scribe to scribe in official correspondence between rulers that are not to be read to the officials. They were the true citizens of the world in those times. With the Bronze Age Collapse the scribes, very specialised and paid by the state, disappeared as an international community. Without them, the ability to read many languages had been lost almost in the blink of an eye (archaeologically speaking). That elites used such professional translators and didn't really have to use foreign languages was probably the reason why the loss of so many scripts and some corresponding tongues was possible.
@@supermavro6072 there is no conclusive evidence of your claim but to be fair there is recent research on the tomb of Thutmose III which studied the pigments on the wall of the tomb and the suggestion is that the high quality of pigments and the techniques used could be evidence of high cultural exchange with the Minoan world. Exciting news. I hope to read the paper.
I have always wondered if the Minoan language could have been a remnant of the Natufian or Neolithic farmers who expanded from the Levant and Anatolia into Europe. No matter what it is fascinating. The Minoans are among the few world cultures about which people will consume so much literature and watch so many documentaries who all basically say “I don’t know” over and over again. 😂
Your theory is very probable, in fact I don't know why it is not mentioned in the video, but they were never isolated, the farmers of Anatolia were the ancestors of the Minoans expanding from Asia Minor (Western Anatolia) towards the Balkans via the Aegean Islands, including Crete (we have genetic evidence of this). The problem is that we do not have another recorded language of this ancestral population of Anatolia to be able to compare it 😢
Except that the ANF are the ones who expanded the Proto-Indo-European language as the less conventional theories say (conventional theory: WSH expanded the PIE language), then everything would be more complicated since it could be an Indo-European language too.
There is a beautiful documentary about deciphering Linear A on "Study of antiquity and the middle age". An Hungarian professor is trying to link it to Ugro Finnic languages and its link with Anatolic alphabets of which we have a rough translation. He also is also tested its translation system on a Linear A inscribed ring. It would make sense since the Romanian Black Sea coast was centre of one of the most advanced prehistoric civilization, as this culture could have expanded before the Indo Europeans took over the Balkans and we really have no idea where the UF languages come from, having intermixed with the IE ones. The first era of Crete was Anatolic, then it was linked to the balkans and it ended being greek after the explosion of Santorini in about 1503BC.
That should be Vasconic. I have no reason to believe that Minoan or Eteocretan was Vasconic, it may have been some sort of Pelasgo-Tyrsenian but hard to tell.
Evan's enthusiasm and heavy handed re-imagining of Minoan culture likely set back our understanding of these people by decades. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to sort things about these fascinating people out.
No. It was an african languge. It is part of the Niger-Congo languge family. Some call it negro Egyptian. JGK Campbell-explains the orgins of the Minoan civilization in his book. "The african origins of classical civilization".
@@gerardmichaelburnsjr. He distorted evidence to promote his own agenda. He kept some evidence such as arrowheads, spearheads, and depictions of soldiers secret, to present this as a utopian peaceful culture that knew no war. When in fact they did.
If only someone would unearth an artifact like the Rosetta stone with the Cretan Heiroglyphs, and Linear A inscribed with direct translations in a langauage we can read (Ancient Egyptian, Hittite or Akkadian cuneiform or some such) and then the code can be cracked..
We know how linear A reads approximately because linear B is essentially the same script and is Greek. That's sorta a Rosetta stone but problem is not a 1:1 translation and also tablets seem to be essentially focused on accountancy of palace goods, little else.
@@LuisAldamiz Linear B TO-SO (tosos, meaning total) corresponds to KU-RO / KU-LO in A. Cyrus Gordon noted, correctly I think, that KU-LO looks like Semitic kull, "all of it". Unfortunately for Gordon's thesis: this is the sort of thing that becomes loanwords. English has its word "total" from Latin, not Germannic.
@@zimriel - How is it in Etruscan? I would really look for the Etruscan or rather Tyrsenian connection but unsure. Would it be Semitic, we should expect more direct cultural connections with the Levant, the main area of Semitic expansion that could be connected. No genetics or archaeology suggests that, rather with the Balcans and Asia Minor, where Semitic was not a thing.
I often wonder also about the power of AI LLM’s and their ability to sense relationships in symbols and sounds to improve our comprehension maybe even to search classical Greek for vestiges of loan words to help construct our understanding
One thing I've thought odd is that for the Indus Valley script we don't have a clue of any numbers yet most of what we have seems to be shipping labels.
What if the symbols are heraldic signs of traders? The turtle as the sign of Jack the Oil Trader. Every time they got oil delivered, they made a sign of a turtle. Just an idea I got just now.
@@jarlnils435 It is odd that we don't seem to have any clue. Look at your pantry: every label has some kind of number on it. You might be just the person to go hunting for numbers on Indus Valley script. It seems the Indians themselves don't have any interest.
We do know the origins of the Dravidians. They are are african settlers. That language is not an isolate neither is the sumerian language. It is proto bantu or some people call it negro Egyptian either way african in origin
I would really recommend people interested in the minoans visit the city uncovered on santorini, Akrotiri. You can literally walk the streets of this city, it’s cool as hell
Great video! Bravo! I would like to see links to literature so that viewers can read them too. Another thing about the Minoan language can be said that all Greek words ending in -inth probably come from Minoan: Τίρυνθα - Tiryns, Κόρινθος - Corinth, λαβύρινθος - Labyrinth
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC. World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010) Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together. Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world. Vinca Iron production 1400 BC. In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words. Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia ……. Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection. After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Proto Serbian 😂😂😂. Slavic language. the allies of Troy were Pauonians, Phrygian Illyria and Thrace, this is what Homer says. Not the Macedonians. Also the Ellines are from the city of Ellas in Thessaly and their King is Achilles (Homer's Iliad). Something you forgot to mention.Later Ellines was used instead of Pelasgian. Aristotle wrote "She who was Pelasgians, whom we called Greeks and now Ellines"❤
@@nikolaoskonstantas2762 This all is not the point. Point is wild Greeks came from Afrika took Pelasgian language and culture and mixed with Pelasgian people. Look below if you can see some similarities between proto Serbian and on the right side old Greek. Next below you can see something about Vucedol first culture 11500 BC and from there spreading slowly all over the Balkan. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans and Anatolia: In Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia, Scythia, Hittite and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language. Here some comparason Proto Serbian (Proto Slavic) and Greek. (Proto Serbian-Slavic)………………….....(Greek) (Co pak pecete?)……………….…............(Sa poka pessete?) (Co tudy delas?)………........................(Sa tuidi dielas?) (Deljm wino)…………………….............….(Dieljmi winon) (Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…....(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea) (Toto jaro idem na hory)…………......(Tuto jar ithou na hori) (Koname pracy)…………………........….(Koinaomes praxin) (Tece woda proti wode)………....……(Teke wudas proti wudei)
We do understand a few words, kuro meant total and maru meant wool. I think there is some connection with the language of the Lycians. One of the problems in our efforts to decipher Linear A is that we don't have as many texts as we have of Linear B and there is no "Rosetta stone" to this day
@@1970coconut The Lycians (Lykians, Lukka, depending on the era) were in a region of Southwest Anatolia; the Lydians were to the north :) I used to get them confused too haha
5:02 for example: notice that '=' in the symbols for Man, Ram and Bull likely represents 'Male' . As for the language, consider this: There seems to be a DNA link to peoples north of the Black Sea and it is probable that these people were seafaring and could have reached Crete via the islands by boat. This contrasts with the spread of peoples from Asia across the Bosphorus into Greece. Two entirely different peoples via two different routes and consequently different languages. It would suggest that the roots of the language represented by Linear A could well be found North of The Black Sea. 8:55 Was not Cyprus, then, at least two different cultures, North and South, each with different trading partners? Hence one would expect different cultures and languages.
There aren't enough Minoan Linear A inscriptions to enable translation. Even then, they wouldn't tell us much more than Linear B has about Mycenaeans, except that they valued goods and furniture more highly than their captive slaves.
there aren't any real ancient tablets, there are plenty FAKE CLAY TABLETS BY ARTHOUR EVANS AND PLENTY PROPAGANDA BY JEWISH -BRITISH FAKE ARCHAEOLOGISTS AS WELL AS U.S.
@@donnievance1942I’m dubious. Slavery was pretty much universal back then. What Linear B does tell us, though, is that while Pylos had a huge workforce of slaves, Crete had a smaller number of slaves and used corvee labor instead. Free people “paid their taxes” by creating good for the government at home, and the government provided them with food during their employment. Not a utopian society, but a better one than on the mainland.
I'm no linguistic expert but given we know the minoans directly descend from the Neolithic inhabitants of Crete I'd imagine experts would have more success looking into languages that would have had a predecessor active in Europe at the time. Something like Basque for example. Greek can still be helpful too even if it's not the same language, apparently according to experts a few features of Greek must have been borrowed by the pelasgians & i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the pelasgian & minoan languages have a common ancestor seperate from Indo-European languages.
@cal2127 They were the same culture cause they were one island, one body of land that was destroyed When Mount Atlas, (Santorini)blew its top and destroyed the island causing the creation of the Cyclades
About the translation of Linear B, Alice Kober deserves most of the credit. She did 95% of the work to decipher the script on her own but died before she solved the riddle. Michael Ventris used all her documents to fully translate it and took all the praise.
Care needs to be taken with acknowledging people's contributions- whether the source is the BBC or Wikipedia. No doubt she did a lot of the harf early leg work, and deduced that it was an inflected language.
@@fiktivhistoriker345 No need for one ...its widely known.. Alice died by such a hard work....she literally gave her life for . Ventris just cut the ribbon
"Minoan" is the name that the British archaeologist gave to the bronze age civilization that lived in crete and and it comes from the legendary king Minos the son Zeus. We dont know how the so called Minoans called themselves. The name "Eteocretans" (meaning origina Cretans in greek) is how Homer and classical age Greeks called the non Greek or non Mycenaean people that lived in crete. So we can say that the term "Eteocretans" is synonym to "Minoan" and perhaps a better term.
Good question. Minoans would be the indigenous civilization of Crete that existed until 1450 BC. Eteocretans would be the descendants of those Minoans that lived during subsequent periods, after the Minoan civilization had fallen.
eteocretans went as far as cyprus, they probably spoke a language that was partly minoan and partly ancient greek, the minoans themselves might not even have understood them like English speakers dont understand german
@@MichaelMyers-qu8tj Pelasgians , Kydonians , Dorians , Acheans , Eteocretans , All lived in Crete according to Homer and others , all Greek tribes all speaking a Greek dialect of there won . Homer and classical Greeks never mentioned that in Greece lived any other nation but Greeks .Read Plato , Aristotle , Thucydides Herodotus . Zeus was a Greek God and his son according to you ( AND OTHERS ) was king Minos , how in the name of logic Minoans-Eteocretans are non Greeks ?
You did not mention the MOST IMPORTANT feature but it is claimed the Linear A is an agglutinative langauge, just like Etruscan and basically all languages predating Indo-European langauges in Europe. "The grammar and syntax of the Linear A language are also poorly understood. It is believed to be an agglutinative language, meaning that words are formed by combining root words with affixes. However, the specific rules and structures of the language are still a mystery. "
Peter Revesz released a youtube video on the subject 5 years ago. It is very convincing to me, not only guesswork. He places Linear A and minoan language in the Ugric family.
It was obvious from the decipherment of M.B that the script used was not developed for Greek. So it must have been adapted from a script developed for an earlier, unrelated language. Given that we knew that M A preceded M B, there would be no point in even trying M B reading on M A. Trying to guess the sounds originally represented by a sign system from the sound system it was later straitjacketed into is a fool's errand.
how is this done? Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space the video is wrong about the dates we have the Linear B since 1700 BC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafkania_pebble
@@watching7650 in all the Mycenaean centers Pylos, Orchomenos, Thebes, Sparta, Tirintha, etc. We find thousands, but paradoxically they all date from after 1500 BC !!! There is the question On all the thousands of tablets, both in the palace and in private homes, their language is Greek. If the Cretans spoke something else, would we find non-Greek words in the letter B?
@@panagiotis7946 World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC. World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010) Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together. Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world. Vinca Iron production 1400 BC. In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words. Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia ……. Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection. After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
If we ever do progress our understanding of Linear A, it is likely to come from the decipherment of the Hittite tablets, who had a practice of recording songs and poems of their neighbours.
Regarding the languages of various European groups (aboriginal or Anatolian) that were spoken before the Indo-European incursions we can only speculate, as our host has done here to great effect. I often wonder about the nature of the language(s) spoken by the megalith builders (now revealed to have been of mixed Anatolian and aboriginal descent). I have a private obsession regarding the language of the Etruscans, and here I must clarify a statement made by our host in this video. The Etruscan language has been transcribed, but has not been translated. We know (some of) the words. We even know the meanings of some of the words. But we still do not know the meaning of, nor do we understand, the language at large. Here, speculation has run its course, and we can only hope that future archeological discoveries may provide us with something like the Rosetta Stone, to reveal the full translation of Etruscan. The same holds for the language of the Minoans and Linear A. Some ancient knowledge still lies buried in the ground. Things turn up. Egypt holds great promise. We can pray, and we can search: that is all. The language(s) of the Western European megalith builders may indeed be lost to us forever, because of their great antiquity, illiteracy, and isolation from the Mediterranean world and the dry climates necessary for artifact preservation.
I guess it's most likely that Eteocretan descended from Minoan, but since the Bronze Age collapse was accompanied by mass migrations (sea peoples) it seems to me that it's also possible that the Eteocretan came from elsewhere. But then again, "Eteocretan" means "true Cretan" in Greek, so it stands to reason they've been there for longer than Greek Cretans. Isn't also possible that different languages were spoken in different regions in Crete? Would linguists be able to tell whether Linear A/Cretan Hieroglyphic tablets found in different palace centres represent the same language or not?
We know that the minoans had trade relationships with other bronze age civilizations like Egypt and Levant and have been influenced by them.(During that age every Eastern Mediterranean culture influenced each other) but we dont have any evidence of genetic or language relations with people from the Levant and Syria.
@@sotirismitzolis5171 I think this comes from a theory that the Vinca culture, which is in the Craphatian basin and the Balkan colonise to west, east and south. This mainly comes from the Etruscean and Troyan connections. Than DNA results showed that Hungarian DNA is indigenous in the Carphatian basin at least 3500 years.
I haven't seen much similarity between Minoan/Eteocretan and Eteocypriot scripts and in fact I suspect that Eteocypriot script is partly at the origin of Iberian/Tartessian script, which (arguably) may be as old as the Copper Age (although most texts are Iron Age some intriguing instances of writing are much older).
@@Wakanda.Knuckles - The other way around, and I'm talking about the script and not the language. Iberian is some cousin of Basque, less clear is the matter with Tartessian, which is obscure.
@@Wakanda.Knuckles Its the other way around. Minoans Influenced Tartessian Script probably. But there is Archeological evidence .In the Papar : Sardinian bronze figurines in their Mediterranean setting by Ralph Araque, Image 18. Fig. 11: Iberian stelae from Cerro Muriano 1 (a); Almadèn de la Plata 2 (b); Ecija 5/Berraco (c); Capilla I (d). Not to scale. Show evidence of Horned Warriors present in Iberia. Possible Nuraghe landing into Lower spain. But Remember Nuraghe werent one singular tribe. They had different tribes. Including tribes catagorized into the Ilienses. Who are associated with Greek mythology and are known to have been trading with Minoans. So it is likelythey were minoans among the Nurage.
yeah but 3.000 years before that prankster , other pranklsters were leaving the dispilio tablet in a lake so to proove the author wrongabout first civilasation / written language ua-cam.com/video/L0qdAQm_UhU/v-deo.html
I think that it is important to separate the writing from the speech in this case, otherwise it might generate confusion. I mean, I'm no expert, but from what I know, i presume that both linear A and B are from proto Indo-European origins in terms of speaking language, but the alphabet was borrowed later on from the Phoenicians. When it comes from not knowing the origin, you mean the symbols/letters and their meaning?
Phoenician is a writing system. Phoenician and cuneiform are writing systems like exactly the linear scripts I II in Greece It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure. it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A? All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek. Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period. All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time with the era of Phoenician writing Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians?
Linear A and B are written in a syllabary that predates Phoenician and is completely unrelated-Greeks didn’t adopt a version of the Phoenician alphabet until several hundred years after Linear B went extinct. Linear B was used to write Greek. Linear A was used to write Minoan , a language with no known relatives that appears not to be Indo-European.
@federook havent you grown tired asking for wanax here to change his style ?.... whats wrong with accepting him the way he prefers to sound ? he sounds dramatic but thats a small price to pay for him being inspirational.
This is a mystery unless the equivalent of Egyptian or Kassites diplomatic dispatches were discovered giving new insights about the culture of the Minoans. I would not be surprised that Knossos and a few other sites had such departments in their scribal rooms. About the nature of the Minoan language, it is likely that it contained elements of Anatolian languages, but it was commercial language like English or French of the last three hundred years and so included elements of Ancient Greek, other Indo-European languages, and lost languages like that of the Kydones and Pelagians. The Eteo-Cretan language would be better if a version of the Epic Poem associated with Cretan Kings. Eteo-Cretans from the Eastern end of Crete probably had their version on manuscripts of the Iliad. Did they write down their mythology withs song in honor of Hera and Zeus since those divinitiess had connections with Crete? Where should we look for those fragments? In Pompei, Caesar's father-in-law purchased Marcus Antonius' library (a distant cousin of the Roman general, Mark Anthony, and the Roman conqueror of Crete) and had a vast libary in his villa there. Apollodorus, the librarian of the Library of Alexandria, had a great interest in Cretan poetry. Researching both may provide clues about the Eteo-Cretan language and thus the Minoans?
some of the symbols are even similar to Chinese symbols which suggests that there is a chance that any similarity to other languages is not derivation but common human design given similar materials, similar brain patterns and similar social requirements. It also means that knowing for sure the meaning could be hard, though one could guess. If 5 cultures have what looks like two parallel lines with three horizontal connecting lines across but only to about 2/3 the way down, we could compare what each culture thought that symbol meant. If they were all similar, that would tell us one thing. If not, on the other hand, it would tell use most surely we have no way to know for sure what these people thought that meant unless we find some translating tablet somewhere :)
The picture is very dark, so you can't see everything clearly. I would like to see at least some text in the Minoan language. I only know two words in Minoan DONIA and GORNIA. Who deciphered them and what do they mean?
It's strange how when we translate these ancient uncovered texts, we're so dependent on Rosetta Stone type discoveries that hand us the answer on a silver platter.
With a well-made cipher, you either have to know a keyword/phrase and use that to decipher the rest, or brute-force the whole thing, which takes countless hours and requires computer/brainpower with often little to show for it. (there are some other methods of decoding, but bear with me for metaphor's sake!) An unknown language is a considerably more difficult challenge. From comparison of Linear B and Greek, we have learned that the Linear Minoan script is most likely logosyllabic, meaning that symbols either stood for an entire syllable (a consonant plus a vowel) or could be used to denote an idea, sometimes both depending on context--this is similar to Egyptian hieroglyphs. But knowing how a writing system is pronounced... unfortunately doesn't help with understanding what it means. I can read Spanish out loud really well with good pronunciation--but would I understand everything I'm saying? Not even close. A Rosetta Stone-type discovery is like that essential keyphrase for the cipher when it comes to finding the meanings of words. And brute-forcing in linguistics is essentially impossible. It's not that we need the answer handed to us on a silver platter, it's that there *has* to be a reference for there to be any understanding. You can, with sign language, body language and a LOT of feedback, begin to communicate basic things with someone who speaks a different language from you. But an extinct language that has no known, attested relatives cannot give you any kind of feedback. :)
In the town of Pliska in Bulgaria has been found a rosetta with 14 symbols. They are identical to Linear A symbols. That’s because the population of Crete were thracians and Pelasgians not geek, and the language that has been spoken is some native language in the Balkans, long before greeks have come. The same symbols have been found in Troada. These symbols were found in many archaeological sites in Bulgaria, and they are dated around 7000 y before present.
Minoan is one of proto-Greek cultures and Linear A an undeciphered predecessor of Linear B. Modern genetic testing has determined that Minoan DNA is dominant in modern day Greeks living in Crete. As soon as more Linear A inscriptions are unearthed, the language will be deciphered like Linear B.
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC. World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010) Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together. Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world. Vinca Iron production 1400 BC. In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words. Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia ……. Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection. After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
@@kbedini5738 Ok. Does this sound serbian to you? ΔΑ ΙΔΗΣ Ω ΤΑ(Ϋ) Κ' Ω ΠΑΝΑΛΚΗΣ! K' ΥΠ' ΑΔΟΥ, ΚΕΙ Δ' ΑΣΩ ΑΕΙΝΑH ΗΤEIΣI ! It's an inscription in linear A. It's the clay cup in Heraklion museum with exhibit no. Π 2630. The inscription is on wikipedia too, under the title linear A. I have nothing against serbes of course, but truth should be told. Language is like lots of trees with common roots from one tree, that have undergone mutations. Nuclear mutations. To thé extent that each has developed independently from others. In any case it's not just the language one should examine to find common roots between nations; it's mainly culture. Pottery of similar kind can be found everywhere, due to trade and export of goods, which, as you may know, was stored in clay pithoi (vases, pots etc), so the art cannot stand alone as an argument of influence upon other nations, as many cretan - for example- artifacts may be found even in China.
@@kbedini5738I can give you some proof. Proto Serbian is actually Proto-Indo-European language. Lets try comparison to Greek. I could give you proof with other languages as well: English, Sanskrit and so on............. (Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek) (Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?) (Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?) (Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon) (Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea) (Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori) (Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin) (Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
@@Dragan-t6w Co pak pecete? What does this mean? It is not greek. Koinaomes praxin? Neither modern greek, nor ancient greek. Look. Go get a hot bath. Then a cold one. If you don't feel better after that, please don't write back, cause it Wil be me, the one who will be needing a hot bath. Just to justify the blood on my face, as I'm furious with those who claim knowing sanskritic, akkadic and greek without being linguists and multiglotts. Even those are not specialists. Even those have made huge mistakes cause it's about languages which they don't know otherwise, but from books. Greek verbs' tenses, persons, names' cases, declensions, dialects etc, all this has confused them. Wasn't the term pelasghic or etruskik language faulsly attributed to the lemnian language, while it was just turks honoring a dead companion and member of their fraternity and wrote down their last words on the lemnos stele? But who an I to degrade the omniscients?
The Atlantis myth is more than likely based on the Minoan civilization. Plato heard about an advanced civilization that suffered a cataclysmic event during the eruption of Thera on Santorini and their society went downhill from there.
No, it was probably just made up by Plato. There is zero evidence that a single soul in the entire Mediterranean world had ever heard of Atlantis before Plato wrote a fable about it to illustrate a political and social point he was trying to get across. This is quite unlike, say, the Iliad where we have documentation of multiple parallel strands of legend going back into the Greek Dark Age.
This is a widely-believed misconception. Both Plato and the Egyptians were well aware of the Minoan civilization, as well as its location. The Lost Island is clearly placed in the Atlantic Ocean by Plato (and therefore by the original Egyptian source). In southern Spain the Tartessian culture was very powerful during the first millennium BC and in close contact with the Phoenicians, and therefore also with the Egyptians. They are likely the original source of the Atlantis story. The Tartessians, according to Himilco of Carthage, were excellent seafarers, and had made extensive voyages throughout the North Atlantic. Certain ancient monuments on the Azores were likely constructed by Tartessian voyagers. They almost certainly had a legend of a Lost Island in the ocean, as did every people on the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and Africa, from Ireland down to Morocco. The Guanches, the original Berber-speaking inhabitants of the Canary Islands, had a similar story. All the evidence points to the volcanic Azores region as the original location of the Lost Island (its dimensions, given in the Critias of Plato, portray it as a little larger than Iceland). Many oceanic studies have confirmed the existence of a substantial island in the Azores region in the geologically recent past. The Columbia University expedition of 1948, for example, found sunken beaches and shorelines all around the Azores, as well as evidence of recent massive volcanic activity. The expedition's leader was Professor Maurice Ewing. Look him up.
@@thevelikovskian6119 What “original Egyptian sources”? People went looking for that Egyptian record of Atlantis in classical times, and didn’t find it. Plato likely made the whole thing up. Every culture with a sea-coast seems to have a “lost island” legend or two. Many of them probably originated in some genuine sea level change or tsunami. Plato may have been vaguely inspired by one of those, but it’s hardly a logical necessity. But heaven forbid that the father of western philosophy may have had an original thought, I guess.
@@PhilMasters Diodorus Siculus talks about the Atlantians as if they still exist, and live on 'the shore of the Ocean' (the Atlantic ocean) in Libya (Africa), and Herodotus also refers to the Atlantes who lived in Northwest Africa near the Atlas mountains.
I think it’s possible it’s an isolate,and I wouldn’t be surprised if it someday proven to be one. I think it’ll be deciphered one day, after all Sumerian (probably the most famous isolate) was
I definitely think it's an Anatolian isolate. All the domesticates that came to crete during the neolithic come from anatolia and the early minoans have little to no steppe component and are similar to neolithic farmers. Etruscan has a high steppe component but a language unrelated to Indo European languages so perhaps they spoke something similar but ultimately i think Anatolia holds the key to the Minoan language
They were not identical to neolithic farmers. They had some chalcolithic/early bronze age anatolian genes as well. Migratory events didn't stop in neolithic period.
when you say anatolia what do you mean? ANATOLIA "East" is a Greek word meaning the place where the sun rises. Where are their writings? How do we know their grammar and syntax? all linguistic hypothetical models are
@@panagiotis7946 we have remnants of isolates and other languages native to Anatolia. Hurrian is an example of an isolate but there are a lot more. I just think it's very likely Minoans would have some type of correspondence/associated with early neolithic farmers leaving Anatolia since their first domesticates and tech / cultural technology closely mirrors Anatolian early neolithic farmers.
Maybe an answere (to which language family minoan belongs) can be found via dna studies. Find the dominant haplo group- or groups. Work it out from there.
The most plausible to me is that minoan is an isolate spoken only by some nutcases in remote villages. Liniar B is business records and military inventories - meaning that business was being done! It seems to be much the same as basque - a language with very little practical applications. Some have traced basque back to the stone age, as f.i. the word for knife and the word for stone is the same. I don't think we will ever be able to read liniar A, as they have nothing to tell us. An eminent english romanist started out as an egyptologist. The problem with that was that romans were predictable, but the egyptians were simply to weird to comprehend. We do understand the romans up to a point, but might not agree with them.
I was not aware that any of the Tyrsenian (Tyrrhenian) languages has been deciphered... Etruscan maybe (extremely) partially but without any conclusive results. As to whether the Minoan was related to Greek, I think the chances of that are null. Otherwise, it would have been deciphered by now. Particularly with the existing, supposedly, intermediary linear B of the Mycenaeans.
I read somewhere that they have a word for pregnant women, Kurwa. Althought this is not much, but the central european region is still a great user of this word, especially the Poles....
the term "Minoan" is an artificial term of archeology from Greek mythology. .The language is Greek linear writing was geographically found only in the Greek area
@@panagiotis7946The language isn’t Greek. If it was Greek, it would have been translated by now. Also, why would the Greeks invent a script that didn’t fit their language? They had to do all sorts of tricks to make it usable because the syllable structure is so different from Greek.
@@mrjones2721 the inhabitants of an area do not suddenly change it's always there what changes? the means of production they use we have an evolution of systematically writing Cretan hieroglyphs---linear A---linear B you change the linear A to fewer symbols and thus change both the grammar and the syntax and turn into a simpler writing system the linear B this is the main reason why we do not decipher the linear A because we do not know its structure it was not the language of the inhabitants that changed, but the style of the language the style of English in Shakespeare's time was different from today's English, but they remain the same language but the royal hieroglyphs of Egypt from the popular hieroglyphs but the language is the same the Greek alphabet is different in the 8th century 27 elements different in the 5th century 22 elements but the language is the same change the language texture
Minoan could be related to Etruscan, but distantly enough that we can't tell today that they're related. If all that remained of the Indo-European family were a few inscriptions in Welsh and Armenian, it would be very difficult to tell that they're related.
maybe linear a is one writing system of Greek language with shortcuts and root of Greek word and that is difference of Minoan with Mycenaean writing system exist one research is in Greek of 2023 and they use sigla research. in that research sillabogram who found ventris in linear a is shortcuts of word example ki=οι(κί)α or ra is shortcuts of word era= Ra= ie(ra), e(ra), a(ra)…άλας, ra, ρίζες: ιερά, άλας όπου ρ το λ γραμμική β ήρα έ(λα)ια άλας era….σ(ελά)να ρ σε λ γραμμική β. arana=αρνιά (arkh2) or syllabogram ro= is shortcuts Ro, ru = a(ro)te, e(ro), ta(ro), a(rou)ra,….ρίζες: αγρόται , ιερό, τάυρος, άρουρα , ήρα
δεν λεμε πια ΑΡ , αλλα λεμε ΑΡΟΤΡΟ , δεν λεμε πια ΟΥΡ τον αερα , αλλα λεμε ΟΥΡΙΟΣ ΑΝΕΜΟΣ , δεν λεμε πια αρανα αλλα λεμε αρναδα ( το θυληκο αρνι ) και δεν ξερω αν οι ξενοι θελουν να μαθουν την αληθεια η απλα θελουν να μας αφαιρεσουν αξια ?? νομιζω οι περισσοτεροι θελουν το δευτερο . Νομιζω για ολα φταινε οι Ελληνες με μικρο το Ε , και καλα ακαδημαϊκοι που δεν ενδιαφερονται , και αφηνουν τους ξενους να παιζουν μπαλα στο δικο μας γηπεδο , ασε που πολλες φορες βγαζουν και χειροτερα συμπερασματα απο τους ξενους , ετσι για να γινουν αρεστοι οι ευρωλιγουριδες . Πολεμα αδερφε , καλα το πας !!!!!!!🏛🏛🏛
Minoans maybe have writing system with shortcuts and that writing system is for greek language exist research of 2023 in that research we see ταυροκαθάψια and inscription with form who we read inscription like ταυροκαθάψια που αγρότες αίρονται εις ταύρους διαβάζουμε αυτό ακριβώς. Έχω βάλει την Έρευνα εγώ νομίζω πως η γραμμική α είναι είδος γραφής με συντομευσεις, μέρος των λέξεων είναι ένα πολυριζικο σύστημα γραφής ακροφωνικό το οποιοδ διαφέρει σε αυτό ακριβώς από την γραμμική β πως η β όταν ενώνεις τα συλλαβογραμματα σχηματίζονται ολόκληρες λέξεις άνω στην α είναι συντομευσεις, πολλές φορές η ρίζα είναι περισσότερες από μία λέξη πχ ero ... Γραμμική β Ηρώ αλλά και ιερό arote ... Αγροται, ταρό... ταύρο και και η γραμμική α είναι ένα σύστημα γραφής της ελληνικής ακροφωνικό.
Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space The language of Linear B is Greek In the thousands of panels of Linear B we did not find a single one with a foreign language In Linear A we do not have many inscriptions to draw firm conclusions but its evolution Linear B is a further development of Linear A from it with different grammatical rules by the same people in the same Greek space
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC. World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010) Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together. Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world. Vinca Iron production 1400 BC. In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words. Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia ……. Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection. After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
@@Dragan-t6w 1. the Vinča culture has a lot of interest, but it is a rural culture where are the written texts and the cities? 2. symbols of the Vinča culture are also found in Greece it is not a written system because the symbols were not repeated 3. we have culture when we have organized cities with residential planning, drainage written laws specialized jobs Arts and Sciences merchant ships for exports and imports in order to create ships for voyages on the great seas, you need engineering knowledge geometries geographies and astronomy These do not exist in Vinča culture 4. the names for example Pelasgos Mykines Thrace Minos and all the other names only in Greek please explain what do they mean in your language absolutely nothing 5. only the ancient Greek writings in the Greek language wrote about other peoples why; because the other peoples had not reached such a level spiritually 6. the Cyrillic script is from the Byzantine period for the civilization of the Slavs of the 9th century why didn't the slavs have writing? 7.Neolithic cultures, perhaps the oldest in Europe, are found in Greece 7500 BC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo
@@panagiotis7946 You are not reading what I wrote "This is first world culture in development before anything else existed" then this culture spread to south with Pelasgian peoples, than the wild Greeks came and learned everything took the language (See below). If your skin is white your ancestry is Pelasgian, if your skin is little bit dark your ancestry is Greek. Because Pelasgian where dominant they developed everything what Greek today is, I can give you all the proof. You are saying it is not proto Serbian but it is Greek and I’m saying that’s the same. I could add lots of samples in the 1000. (Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek) (Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?) (Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?) (Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon) (Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea) (Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori) (Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin) (Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
A base-10 numeral system is very advanced for the time! If they used it in a place-value system they'd be the only ones in the ancient world other than the Babylonians to do so (although the Babylonian system was base-60).
FROM GREEK LINEAR B ( 2000bc ) TO PARSLEY linear b : selino , old latin : petroselinum , medieval latin petrosilium , old french : peresil , old english : petersilie modern english : parsley modern spanish : perejil
Ancient Greeks used to consider us Celts-Germanics as speaking “bar bar bar”; hence the word barbarian. Perhaps Ancient Greek language has elements that are not related to Porto-Indo-European? Perhaps we can compare these weird mutations to Linear A. :)
Since these socities were fairly illiterate, it would make sense that that, when the ruling class of 'Mycenenaen' background took over on Crete, there were scribes doing most of the scribing, so, they started scribing a new language with the old system...sadly, while the Egyptians had probably been communicating with these guys since before Thera blew up, I would bet you dinner that 98% of it was done using cuneiform in the language of tje Pharoahs, but it MIGHT be that some, few, linear texts are still findable on the African continent...not that I would expect it to significantly increase the total...
@@Weedwizard600 cypriot is greek not a separate language, they may use some different words from ancient greek origin but mostly its just greek with different accent im greek and can understand them because they speak greek lol
I think archeologists still have a lot of work to do. There are certainly a lot of things buried under sea level. We could also extract ancient DNA from human remains if we find them.
I m just talking about an intuition, this is why my words have a very little worth, but I m convinced the ancient Minoans where highly influenced by the Aegypthians, and the script should be somehow influenced by their superior culture. This is why I wonder if the key of decifring lays in Aegypt, and their linguistic experiments with demotic or even their experiments that brought to the origin of the Alphabet...
The Minoans also lived in the cyclades there are even archeological sites in Thera island (Santorini) so it might be just another writing system of Greek
No. That hypothesis has already been tested and failed. The sound values that have been derived from Linear B, known to be Mycenean and proto-Greek, that overlap with Linear A do not map on to any reconstruction that resembles Greek.
Minoans were neolithic Anatolian people. Its the first people of Greece before the arrivals of Indo European Greeks. Modern Greek today is mixed with this both culture's and people
Very interesting! In history class, we were basically told: "We just don't know how to translate Linear A.". I remember that at the time, this sounded strange and somewhat unsatisfactory to me, so since we knew Linear B, but I don't think the teacher ever went in depth into why that was. And 13 y.o. me wasn't bothered enough by it to ask further.
I think their language is isolated just like Etruscan, and it might be related to early Anatolian farmers who immigrated from the Middle East into Europe.
@@supermavro6072 Somebody else says it’s deciphered and it’s definitely Hungarian. Another guy says it’s Japanese. A whole pile of people say it’s Greek. Before you want anyone else to believe you, you had better convince some more people that it’s Egyptian.
Related to Phoenicians ? ha ha ha ,,,, They were in Crete 6.000 years before the Phoenicians appeared in history ! As a mater of fact they even colonized the middle East . Its a shame you being Greek and have no notion of history Blaka
Ο Μίνωας παίζει κεντρικό ρόλο στην ελληνική μυθολογία και συνδέεται με τα βασίλεια της Ελλάδας. Όπως όλοι οι Έλληνες, ο εγγονός του Ιδομενέα συμμετέχει στον Τρωικό Πόλεμο τα μυθολογικά ονόματα της μινωικής Κρήτης όπως Αστέριος, Αριάνδος, Ανδρόγεος, Ιδομενέας, Μυριόνης, Φαίδρα, Μίνωας, Μινώταυρος, Δαίδαλος, Ίκαρος κ.λπ. είναι μόνο ελληνικά και στα ελληνικα ετοιμολογουντε
yeah ,, surly the Albanians will claim it was Albanian ! According to them every thing and everybody was Albanian , rumor has it recently ,they are claiming JfK Kennedy was Albanian he he he
The fact that they used writing for administration suggests that what we do have may be an abbreviated, shorthand form of the language. Like trying to reconstruct English from inventory sheets.
Everyone assumes that, before Crete became Greek-speaking, there was only one culture and one language on Crete, the Minoans. What if there was more than one language spoken on the island? You think I am wrong in raising this hypothesis? Can you prove I am wrong? Where would I get such a silly idea, you might think? Well, look no further than Cyprus, another island of the eastern Mediterranean about the same size as Crete. Did you that throughout much of its history, there were multiple cultures coexisting on Cyprus? If it's possible on Cyprus, why not on Crete? Would it be surprising that the ancient sources don't mention multiple cultures? I do not think so, because the Greeks did not know much about 'Minoan' Crete in the first place.
Yes this what i say all the times. At that time there Ist no Greek or Hellenic. This is few thousand years before. Greeks came later, didn't call themselves Greeks and so on. The so called scholars are a hoax. You can find 65% of linear A signs in the Vinca script. But nobody cares. Even linear B isn't deciphered. That's simply not the truth.
That's not entirely accurate. Considering the DNA link between the Minoans and the Mycenaeans who are Hellenes. As for what they spoke well that's what this video is about. Parts of Linear A exist in Linear B which the Mycenaeans used.
@@VoltesWithEliasit's called acculturation as it happened throughout Europe. For example the pre-Celtic non-Indo-European speaking people of Britain and Eire became totally Celtized by the early Iron Age, thus no one really knows about the languages spoken in the islands prior to the Celts. However; Insular Celtic languages have retained archaic pre-Indoeuropean feature not found in say (continental Celtic) Gaulish.
Minoans also have relations with West Anatolia. There was a Minoan colony in Miletus. Miletus was in the territory of Arzawa Kingdom. We know that Arzawa had frequent diplomatic letter traffic with Hittites and Egypt. Arzawa clay tablet archive still couldn’t found. Arzawa was the only one late bronze age Agean civilisation that their writing content was not limited with trade recordings like Myceaneans and Minoans. Most probably Arzawa archive includes very valuable informations about late bronze age Agean region. Arzawa was the second main power in Anatolia at late bronze age (bc 1600-bc 1200) and regarded as main power during the Hittite’s short dark age (bc 1500-bc 1400).
Minoans were weakened after Bc 1450 big earthquake. Myceaneans attacked weakened Minoans around that dates. There is a possibility that Minoans requested help from his neighbours. Arzawa was the closest compared to others. Arzawa conquared Crete and Morea Peninsula at bc 1.900 according to archeological findings. Arzawa can set contact through Miletus. There could be a communication through clay tablets. Arzawa clay tablet archieve most probably includes a lot of information of Late bronze age Aegean Region. Hittites and Egypt documents dont mention Minoans. It is also interesting that while Minoans were invaded by Myceaneans, Hittites were in short dark period and Arzawa was the main power in Anatolia. It seems impossible that Arzawa didn’t do anything while Crete was invading. Also other West Anatolian states (Assuwa, Caria, Lycia) could have been involved in this conflict since their Aegean sea interests was effected.
@@mukan9 no earthquake occurred in 1450 the subcontinent of Santorini erupted in 1650 the Minoans participated in the Trojan War there is no invasion of Crete, these are free assumptions it is funny to think that Minoans fought with Sparta and Pylos when they had such close economic and social relations. What do we think the Mycenaeans went with 50 ships and conquered Crete? stupid speculations that no ancient writer mentions all the Minoan palaces were not destroyed.
Even scholars of ancient history have fallen prey to emotionalism & imagination (Romanticism). We should be very careful to stear completely clear from such human tendencies when we're seeking the complete truth. Reality is always best for all of humanity.
@@free_gold4467 Do not worry , i am really sorry you dont understand , but i cant offer you any more help, except from suggesting that you read the actuall bibliography and references .
I love the idea that influential, well educated egyptians knew Minoan Linear A as part of some sort of base curriculum to be able to participate in commerce and diplomacy.
As far as modern interpretations go, the scribes were a very important professional group in the Bronze Age world, able to write and speak in multiple languages, while the elites mostly were not. There are personal notes from scribe to scribe in official correspondence between rulers that are not to be read to the officials. They were the true citizens of the world in those times.
With the Bronze Age Collapse the scribes, very specialised and paid by the state, disappeared as an international community. Without them, the ability to read many languages had been lost almost in the blink of an eye (archaeologically speaking). That elites used such professional translators and didn't really have to use foreign languages was probably the reason why the loss of so many scripts and some corresponding tongues was possible.
Aigypt was populated with Greek tribes. See the Greek names of its cities for one. For second, see Solon's account of the Aigyptian priests on Platon.
Minoans A are Egyptians themselves
@@uchfed9499 the other way maIka
@@supermavro6072 there is no conclusive evidence of your claim but to be fair there is recent research on the tomb of Thutmose III which studied the pigments on the wall of the tomb and the suggestion is that the high quality of pigments and the techniques used could be evidence of high cultural exchange with the Minoan world. Exciting news.
I hope to read the paper.
"It's OK, don't keep a copy, everything is stored in the vast archive on Thera. Wait, did you hear something?"
😂
I have always wondered if the Minoan language could have been a remnant of the Natufian or Neolithic farmers who expanded from the Levant and Anatolia into Europe. No matter what it is fascinating. The Minoans are among the few world cultures about which people will consume so much literature and watch so many documentaries who all basically say “I don’t know” over and over again. 😂
True! 😀
Your theory is very probable, in fact I don't know why it is not mentioned in the video, but they were never isolated, the farmers of Anatolia were the ancestors of the Minoans expanding from Asia Minor (Western Anatolia) towards the Balkans via the Aegean Islands, including Crete (we have genetic evidence of this).
The problem is that we do not have another recorded language of this ancestral population of Anatolia to be able to compare it 😢
Except that the ANF are the ones who expanded the Proto-Indo-European language as the less conventional theories say (conventional theory: WSH expanded the PIE language), then everything would be more complicated since it could be an Indo-European language too.
There is a beautiful documentary about deciphering Linear A on "Study of antiquity and the middle age". An Hungarian professor is trying to link it to Ugro Finnic languages and its link with Anatolic alphabets of which we have a rough translation. He also is also tested its translation system on a Linear A inscribed ring. It would make sense since the Romanian Black Sea coast was centre of one of the most advanced prehistoric civilization, as this culture could have expanded before the Indo Europeans took over the Balkans and we really have no idea where the UF languages come from, having intermixed with the IE ones.
The first era of Crete was Anatolic, then it was linked to the balkans and it ended being greek after the explosion of Santorini in about 1503BC.
That should be Vasconic. I have no reason to believe that Minoan or Eteocretan was Vasconic, it may have been some sort of Pelasgo-Tyrsenian but hard to tell.
Evan's enthusiasm and heavy handed re-imagining of Minoan culture likely set back our understanding of these people by decades. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to sort things about these fascinating people out.
The twat rebuilt the columns of Knossos upside down,and that is how they have remained,
Evans interpretation was not the major obstacle. The lack of hard data is the problem.
No. It was an african languge. It is part of the Niger-Congo languge family. Some call it negro Egyptian.
JGK Campbell-explains the orgins of the Minoan civilization in his book. "The african origins of classical civilization".
@@gerardmichaelburnsjr. He distorted evidence to promote his own agenda. He kept some evidence such as arrowheads, spearheads, and depictions of soldiers secret, to present this as a utopian peaceful culture that knew no war. When in fact they did.
If only someone would unearth an artifact like the Rosetta stone with the Cretan Heiroglyphs, and Linear A inscribed with direct translations in a langauage we can read (Ancient Egyptian, Hittite or Akkadian cuneiform or some such) and then the code can be cracked..
We know how linear A reads approximately because linear B is essentially the same script and is Greek. That's sorta a Rosetta stone but problem is not a 1:1 translation and also tablets seem to be essentially focused on accountancy of palace goods, little else.
@@LuisAldamiz Linear B TO-SO (tosos, meaning total) corresponds to KU-RO / KU-LO in A. Cyrus Gordon noted, correctly I think, that KU-LO looks like Semitic kull, "all of it".
Unfortunately for Gordon's thesis: this is the sort of thing that becomes loanwords. English has its word "total" from Latin, not Germannic.
@@zimriel - How is it in Etruscan? I would really look for the Etruscan or rather Tyrsenian connection but unsure. Would it be Semitic, we should expect more direct cultural connections with the Levant, the main area of Semitic expansion that could be connected. No genetics or archaeology suggests that, rather with the Balcans and Asia Minor, where Semitic was not a thing.
Rosetta stone has been decoded for a while
@@zimrielSorry, you wrote "Linear B ... corresponds to ... in B". Have i missed something?
Holy cow to think that the time from the classical to the middle minoan was the same as our time to the Byzantine/Justinian time
At some point we will have a better idea as more material is discovered in archeological digs.
I often wonder also about the power of AI LLM’s and their ability to sense relationships in symbols and sounds to improve our comprehension maybe even to search classical Greek for vestiges of loan words to help construct our understanding
@@trentwoodcock3094 Another person that doesn't understand how LLMs work.
One thing I've thought odd is that for the Indus Valley script we don't have a clue of any numbers yet most of what we have seems to be shipping labels.
We need
12 dozen eggs
9 barrels of wheat
7 bushels of hgherhanermim.
Nobody knows what hgherhanermim is.
What if the symbols are heraldic signs of traders?
The turtle as the sign of Jack the Oil Trader. Every time they got oil delivered, they made a sign of a turtle.
Just an idea I got just now.
@@jarlnils435 It is odd that we don't seem to have any clue. Look at your pantry: every label has some kind of number on it. You might be just the person to go hunting for numbers on Indus Valley script. It seems the Indians themselves don't have any interest.
What if all that survives of our culture are Amazon boxes?
We do know the origins of the Dravidians. They are are african settlers. That language is not an isolate neither is the sumerian language. It is proto bantu or some people call it negro Egyptian either way african in origin
I would really recommend people interested in the minoans visit the city uncovered on santorini, Akrotiri. You can literally walk the streets of this city, it’s cool as hell
One of my dream destinations! 🤩
Very interesting!
Out of all phonetic signs, how many of them overlap in Linear A and Linear B?
Most
Maybe someday we will find more Linear A texts, alongside a language we already know and then decipher it Rosetta Stone style
Thanks!
Thank you very much. Appreciate it!
Thank you for this beautiful lesson!✌️
I cannot describe how much I love this channel. Another gem of a video!
The disk of Phaestos deserves to be mentioned here.
Great video! Bravo! I would like to see links to literature so that viewers can read them too. Another thing about the Minoan language can be said that all Greek words ending in -inth probably come from Minoan: Τίρυνθα - Tiryns, Κόρινθος - Corinth, λαβύρινθος - Labyrinth
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Proto Serbian 😂😂😂. Slavic language. the allies of Troy were Pauonians, Phrygian Illyria and Thrace, this is what Homer says. Not the Macedonians. Also the Ellines are from the city of Ellas in Thessaly and their King is Achilles (Homer's Iliad). Something you forgot to mention.Later Ellines was used instead of Pelasgian. Aristotle wrote "She who was Pelasgians, whom we called Greeks and now Ellines"❤
@@Dragan-t6whope you do not have a job in the educational system of whatever country🍭👀
@@nikolaoskonstantas2762 This all is not the point. Point is wild Greeks came from Afrika took Pelasgian language and culture and mixed with Pelasgian people. Look below if you can see some similarities between proto Serbian and on the right side old Greek. Next below you can see something about Vucedol first culture 11500 BC and from there spreading slowly all over the Balkan. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans and Anatolia: In Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia, Scythia, Hittite and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Here some comparason Proto Serbian (Proto Slavic) and Greek.
(Proto Serbian-Slavic)………………….....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)……………….…............(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)………........................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….............….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…....(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………......(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………........….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)………....……(Teke wudas proti wudei)
@user-ox5db9pz1l
WHAT ?😂
A very informative summary of the mystery of the Minoan language. And great visuals!
Great video! Let's wish some Rosetta stone equivalent is found for minoan!
Sadly there was one, but lost during the second world war
We do understand a few words, kuro meant total and maru meant wool.
I think there is some connection with the language of the Lycians.
One of the problems in our efforts to decipher Linear A is that we don't have as many texts as we have of Linear B and there is no "Rosetta stone" to this day
You mean Lydians?
what script did the Lycians use?
the word kuro and combinations of the word also exist in Greek
@@1970coconut The Lycians (Lykians, Lukka, depending on the era) were in a region of Southwest Anatolia; the Lydians were to the north :) I used to get them confused too haha
@@andrewfortmusic Thanks.
5:02 for example: notice that '=' in the symbols for Man, Ram and Bull likely represents 'Male' . As for the language, consider this: There seems to be a DNA link to peoples north of the Black Sea and it is probable that these people were seafaring and could have reached Crete via the islands by boat. This contrasts with the spread of peoples from Asia across the Bosphorus into Greece. Two entirely different peoples via two different routes and consequently different languages. It would suggest that the roots of the language represented by Linear A could well be found North of The Black Sea. 8:55 Was not Cyprus, then, at least two different cultures, North and South, each with different trading partners? Hence one would expect different cultures and languages.
There aren't enough Minoan Linear A inscriptions to enable translation. Even then, they wouldn't tell us much more than Linear B has about Mycenaeans, except that they valued goods and furniture more highly than their captive slaves.
there aren't any real ancient tablets, there are plenty FAKE CLAY TABLETS BY ARTHOUR EVANS AND PLENTY PROPAGANDA BY JEWISH -BRITISH FAKE ARCHAEOLOGISTS AS WELL AS U.S.
No evidence of slavery in the Minoan culture.
@@donnievance1942 You are correct, sir. They will never be "normalized" into another version of the patriarchal war state.
@@donnievance1942I’m dubious. Slavery was pretty much universal back then. What Linear B does tell us, though, is that while Pylos had a huge workforce of slaves, Crete had a smaller number of slaves and used corvee labor instead. Free people “paid their taxes” by creating good for the government at home, and the government provided them with food during their employment. Not a utopian society, but a better one than on the mainland.
@@donnievance1942 How can we have evidence of slavery from a language WE CAN'T READ?
I've seen online some words claiming to be minoan is that true? or just a guess
We can sound out most Minoan words. We just don’t know what they mean.
ευχαριστώ
is the mineoan langugage related of lemnian language or pelagasians?
Lemnian is pelasgian. Minoan is Different
Palesgian is indigenous. Minoans is from Egypt
@@supermavro6072Minoans aren’t from Egypt. Genetically, they came to Europe via Anatolia. Linguistically, they’re unique.
@@mrjones2721 Analotians were also Palesgians and thracians not egypsies
@@supermavro6072 A lot of cultures came from Anatolia.
I'm no linguistic expert but given we know the minoans directly descend from the Neolithic inhabitants of Crete I'd imagine experts would have more success looking into languages that would have had a predecessor active in Europe at the time. Something like Basque for example. Greek can still be helpful too even if it's not the same language, apparently according to experts a few features of Greek must have been borrowed by the pelasgians & i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the pelasgian & minoan languages have a common ancestor seperate from Indo-European languages.
could minoan have been similar to the cycladies culture
I think that’s very likely
Yes but cycladites could have been influenced from the minoans
@cal2127
They were the same culture cause they were one island, one body of land that was destroyed
When Mount Atlas, (Santorini)blew its top and destroyed the island causing the creation of the Cyclades
Santorini in cyclades and minoans were there. Akritori
@@janeslater8004
Yes Akrotiri was there as were many other cities that got destroyed
About the translation of Linear B, Alice Kober deserves most of the credit. She did 95% of the work to decipher the script on her own but died before she solved the riddle. Michael Ventris used all her documents to fully translate it and took all the praise.
That's not correct
Source?
Care needs to be taken with acknowledging people's contributions- whether the source is the BBC or Wikipedia.
No doubt she did a lot of the harf early leg work, and deduced that it was an inflected language.
👍👍👍👍
@@fiktivhistoriker345
No need for one ...its widely known.. Alice died by such a hard work....she literally gave her life for .
Ventris just cut the ribbon
Do you consider Minoan and Eteocretan to be synonymous?
"Minoan" is the name that the British archaeologist gave to the bronze age civilization that lived in crete and and it comes from the legendary king Minos the son Zeus. We dont know how the so called Minoans called themselves. The name "Eteocretans" (meaning origina Cretans in greek) is how Homer and classical age Greeks called the non Greek or non Mycenaean people that lived in crete. So we can say that the term "Eteocretans" is synonym to "Minoan" and perhaps a better term.
Good question.
Minoans would be the indigenous civilization of Crete that existed until 1450 BC.
Eteocretans would be the descendants of those Minoans that lived during subsequent periods, after the Minoan civilization had fallen.
eteocretans went as far as cyprus, they probably spoke a language that was partly minoan and partly ancient greek, the minoans themselves might not even have understood them like English speakers dont understand german
Almost certainly yes. They were probably one and the same.
@@MichaelMyers-qu8tj Pelasgians , Kydonians , Dorians , Acheans , Eteocretans , All lived in Crete according to Homer and others , all Greek tribes all speaking a Greek dialect of there won . Homer and classical Greeks never mentioned that in Greece lived any other nation but Greeks .Read Plato , Aristotle , Thucydides Herodotus .
Zeus was a Greek God and his son according to you ( AND OTHERS ) was king Minos , how in the name of logic Minoans-Eteocretans are non Greeks ?
You did not mention the MOST IMPORTANT feature but it is claimed the Linear A is an agglutinative langauge, just like Etruscan and basically all languages predating Indo-European langauges in Europe.
"The grammar and syntax of the Linear A language are also poorly understood. It is believed to be an agglutinative language, meaning that words are formed by combining root words with affixes. However, the specific rules and structures of the language are still a mystery. "
Peter Revesz released a youtube video on the subject 5 years ago. It is very convincing to me, not only guesswork. He places Linear A and minoan language in the Ugric family.
Extremely unlikely
so linear A is a shipping manifest and Linear B is the language that followed it??
Great channel and it's endorsed by Cy. What a shame I didn't find it sooner.
Perhaps comparative DNA studies could give clues to the Minoan Linear A script
DNA does not dictate culture. Former President Barack Hussein Obama speaks a Germanic tongue, as did Nelson Mandela, without being Germans.
They’ve been done, but all they tell us is that the Minoans were one of many groups that came to Europe through Anatolia.
It was obvious from the decipherment of M.B that the script used was not developed for Greek. So it must have been adapted from a script developed for an earlier, unrelated language. Given that we knew that M A preceded M B, there would be no point in even trying M B reading on M A. Trying to guess the sounds originally represented by a sign system from the sound system it was later straitjacketed into is a fool's errand.
how is this done?
Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world
Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space
the video is wrong about the dates
we have the Linear B since 1700 BC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafkania_pebble
@@panagiotis7946 So no other language family was ever spoken anywhere in today's Greece at any time since the start of times? Now that is a big idea!
@@watching7650 naturally and in accordance with the archaeological findings.
Besides, it is a very small country in area
@@watching7650 in all the Mycenaean centers Pylos, Orchomenos, Thebes, Sparta, Tirintha, etc. We find thousands, but paradoxically they all date from after 1500 BC !!!
There is the question
On all the thousands of tablets, both in the palace and in private homes, their language is Greek. If the Cretans spoke something else, would we find non-Greek words in the letter B?
@@panagiotis7946 World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
If we ever do progress our understanding of Linear A, it is likely to come from the decipherment of the Hittite tablets, who had a practice of recording songs and poems of their neighbours.
Was the once proposed relationship between Minoan and archaic Persian ever confirmed or refuted?
Regarding the languages of various European groups (aboriginal or Anatolian) that were spoken before the Indo-European incursions we can only speculate, as our host has done here to great effect. I often wonder about the nature of the language(s) spoken by the megalith builders (now revealed to have been of mixed Anatolian and aboriginal descent). I have a private obsession regarding the language of the Etruscans, and here I must clarify a statement made by our host in this video. The Etruscan language has been transcribed, but has not been translated. We know (some of) the words. We even know the meanings of some of the words. But we still do not know the meaning of, nor do we understand, the language at large. Here, speculation has run its course, and we can only hope that future archeological discoveries may provide us with something like the Rosetta Stone, to reveal the full translation of Etruscan. The same holds for the language of the Minoans and Linear A. Some ancient knowledge still lies buried in the ground. Things turn up. Egypt holds great promise. We can pray, and we can search: that is all. The language(s) of the Western European megalith builders may indeed be lost to us forever, because of their great antiquity, illiteracy, and isolation from the Mediterranean world and the dry climates necessary for artifact preservation.
Its very possible it was the last eastern hunter gather lang left not replaced before writing
I guess it's most likely that Eteocretan descended from Minoan, but since the Bronze Age collapse was accompanied by mass migrations (sea peoples) it seems to me that it's also possible that the Eteocretan came from elsewhere. But then again, "Eteocretan" means "true Cretan" in Greek, so it stands to reason they've been there for longer than Greek Cretans.
Isn't also possible that different languages were spoken in different regions in Crete? Would linguists be able to tell whether Linear A/Cretan Hieroglyphic tablets found in different palace centres represent the same language or not?
Isn't there evidence from art and artifacts that the Minoans were related to the people of Mari in Syria?
I once saw a video on UA-cam claiming they were Hungarian.
We know that the minoans had trade relationships with other bronze age civilizations like Egypt and Levant and have been influenced by them.(During that age every Eastern Mediterranean culture influenced each other) but we dont have any evidence of genetic or language relations with people from the Levant and Syria.
@@sotirismitzolis5171 I think this comes from a theory that the Vinca culture, which is in the Craphatian basin and the Balkan colonise to west, east and south. This mainly comes from the Etruscean and Troyan connections. Than DNA results showed that Hungarian DNA is indigenous in the Carphatian basin at least 3500 years.
I haven't seen much similarity between Minoan/Eteocretan and Eteocypriot scripts and in fact I suspect that Eteocypriot script is partly at the origin of Iberian/Tartessian script, which (arguably) may be as old as the Copper Age (although most texts are Iron Age some intriguing instances of writing are much older).
Can you clarify: do you mean that Eteocypriot is derived from Iberian or is it the other way around?
@@Wakanda.Knuckles - The other way around, and I'm talking about the script and not the language. Iberian is some cousin of Basque, less clear is the matter with Tartessian, which is obscure.
@@Wakanda.Knuckles Its the other way around. Minoans Influenced Tartessian Script probably. But there is Archeological evidence .In the Papar : Sardinian bronze figurines in their Mediterranean setting by Ralph Araque, Image 18. Fig. 11: Iberian stelae from Cerro Muriano 1 (a); Almadèn de la Plata 2 (b); Ecija 5/Berraco (c); Capilla I (d). Not to scale. Show evidence of Horned Warriors present in Iberia. Possible Nuraghe landing into Lower spain. But Remember Nuraghe werent one singular tribe. They had different tribes. Including tribes catagorized into the Ilienses. Who are associated with Greek mythology and are known to have been trading with Minoans. So it is likelythey were minoans among the Nurage.
Minoans is Egyptian herioglophy, cypriot probably phonecian/semitic
@@supermavro6072 - It may have hieroglyphic elements but they're not "Egyptian" and anyhow it also has phonemic writing.
I find the question strange. Which language did the Minoans speak ? Surely they spoke Minoan !!!
or maybe Minoic?
@@kleinweichkleinweich You'll have to explain that. I only understand computer languages.
@@rchas1023 install the Thera package, it will give you a blast
But in Which langauge branch was the Minoan? I think its should be West uralic, like the Etruscean and Hatti.
@@xerxen100 The latter two placements are extremely controversial.
I think they purposefully wrote down semi-significant looking jibberish just too fool everyone like 3000 years later.
Epic Prank.
THIS
yeah but 3.000 years before that prankster , other pranklsters were leaving the dispilio tablet in a lake so to proove the author wrongabout first civilasation / written language ua-cam.com/video/L0qdAQm_UhU/v-deo.html
I think that it is important to separate the writing from the speech in this case, otherwise it might generate confusion. I mean, I'm no expert, but from what I know, i presume that both linear A and B are from proto Indo-European origins in terms of speaking language, but the alphabet was borrowed later on from the Phoenicians. When it comes from not knowing the origin, you mean the symbols/letters and their meaning?
Phoenician is a writing system.
Phoenician and cuneiform are writing systems like exactly the linear scripts I II in Greece
It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure.
it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all
the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A?
All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek.
Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period.
All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables
Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time
with the era of Phoenician writing
Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians?
@@panagiotis7946 Thank you for the explanation!
Linear A and B are written in a syllabary that predates Phoenician and is completely unrelated-Greeks didn’t adopt a version of the Phoenician alphabet until several hundred years after Linear B went extinct.
Linear B was used to write Greek. Linear A was used to write Minoan , a language with no known relatives that appears not to be Indo-European.
@federook
havent you grown tired asking for wanax here to change his style ?....
whats wrong with accepting him the way he prefers to sound ?
he sounds dramatic but thats a small price to pay for him being inspirational.
I recently viewed a Ted talk about recurring symbols and markings in cave paintings. Some of these look similar to what you have shown of Minoan.
This is a mystery unless the equivalent of Egyptian or Kassites diplomatic dispatches were discovered giving new insights about the culture of the Minoans. I would not be surprised that Knossos and a few other sites had such departments in their scribal rooms. About the nature of the Minoan language, it is likely that it contained elements of Anatolian languages, but it was commercial language like English or French of the last three hundred years and so included elements of Ancient Greek, other Indo-European languages, and lost languages like that of the Kydones and Pelagians. The Eteo-Cretan language would be better if a version of the Epic Poem associated with Cretan Kings. Eteo-Cretans from the Eastern end of Crete probably had their version on manuscripts of the Iliad. Did they write down their mythology withs song in honor of Hera and Zeus since those divinitiess had connections with Crete? Where should we look for those fragments? In Pompei, Caesar's father-in-law purchased Marcus Antonius' library (a distant cousin of the Roman general, Mark Anthony, and the Roman conqueror of Crete) and had a vast libary in his villa there. Apollodorus, the librarian of the Library of Alexandria, had a great interest in Cretan poetry. Researching both may provide clues about the Eteo-Cretan language and thus the Minoans?
some of the symbols are even similar to Chinese symbols which suggests that there is a chance that any similarity to other languages is not derivation but common human design given similar materials, similar brain patterns and similar social requirements. It also means that knowing for sure the meaning could be hard, though one could guess. If 5 cultures have what looks like two parallel lines with three horizontal connecting lines across but only to about 2/3 the way down, we could compare what each culture thought that symbol meant. If they were all similar, that would tell us one thing. If not, on the other hand, it would tell use most surely we have no way to know for sure what these people thought that meant unless we find some translating tablet somewhere :)
The picture is very dark, so you can't see everything clearly. I would like to see at least some text in the Minoan language. I only know two words in Minoan DONIA and GORNIA. Who deciphered them and what do they mean?
hello, is there a way to contact you on discord?
Yes! - discord.gg/Vazc4QpP
@@WanaxTV ill join it tomorrow
It's strange how when we translate these ancient uncovered texts, we're so dependent on Rosetta Stone type discoveries that hand us the answer on a silver platter.
With a well-made cipher, you either have to know a keyword/phrase and use that to decipher the rest, or brute-force the whole thing, which takes countless hours and requires computer/brainpower with often little to show for it. (there are some other methods of decoding, but bear with me for metaphor's sake!)
An unknown language is a considerably more difficult challenge. From comparison of Linear B and Greek, we have learned that the Linear Minoan script is most likely logosyllabic, meaning that symbols either stood for an entire syllable (a consonant plus a vowel) or could be used to denote an idea, sometimes both depending on context--this is similar to Egyptian hieroglyphs. But knowing how a writing system is pronounced... unfortunately doesn't help with understanding what it means. I can read Spanish out loud really well with good pronunciation--but would I understand everything I'm saying? Not even close.
A Rosetta Stone-type discovery is like that essential keyphrase for the cipher when it comes to finding the meanings of words. And brute-forcing in linguistics is essentially impossible. It's not that we need the answer handed to us on a silver platter, it's that there *has* to be a reference for there to be any understanding. You can, with sign language, body language and a LOT of feedback, begin to communicate basic things with someone who speaks a different language from you. But an extinct language that has no known, attested relatives cannot give you any kind of feedback. :)
6:50 That sounds awfully convenient isn't it
In the town of Pliska in Bulgaria has been found a rosetta with 14 symbols. They are identical to Linear A symbols. That’s because the population of Crete were thracians and Pelasgians not geek, and the language that has been spoken is some native language in the Balkans, long before greeks have come. The same symbols have been found in Troada.
These symbols were found in many archaeological sites in Bulgaria, and they are dated around 7000 y before present.
Keep dreaming
@ These are the archeological facts, sorry for destroying your idea that so called Minoans are ancient Greeks…
@@TodorPopov-n9f Those are your made-up facts, not archeological ones. Don't mistake them. They are different.
@ read and 😢
@@TodorPopov-n9f cope
Minoan is one of proto-Greek cultures and Linear A an undeciphered predecessor of Linear B. Modern genetic testing has determined that Minoan DNA is dominant in modern day Greeks living in Crete. As soon as more Linear A inscriptions are unearthed, the language will be deciphered like Linear B.
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
"Proto Serbian" 😂
Look around Ukraine for it
@@kbedini5738 Ok. Does this sound serbian to you?
ΔΑ ΙΔΗΣ Ω ΤΑ(Ϋ) Κ' Ω ΠΑΝΑΛΚΗΣ! K' ΥΠ' ΑΔΟΥ, ΚΕΙ Δ' ΑΣΩ ΑΕΙΝΑH ΗΤEIΣI !
It's an inscription in linear A. It's the clay cup in Heraklion museum with exhibit no. Π 2630.
The inscription is on wikipedia too, under the title linear A.
I have nothing against serbes of course, but truth should be told.
Language is like lots of trees with common roots from one tree, that have undergone mutations. Nuclear mutations. To thé extent that each has developed independently from others. In any case it's not just the language one should examine to find common roots between nations; it's mainly culture. Pottery of similar kind can be found everywhere, due to trade and export of goods, which, as you may know, was stored in clay pithoi (vases, pots etc), so the art cannot stand alone as an argument of influence upon other nations, as many cretan - for example- artifacts may be found even in China.
@@kbedini5738I can give you some proof. Proto Serbian is actually Proto-Indo-European language. Lets try comparison to Greek. I could give you proof with other languages as well: English, Sanskrit and so on.............
(Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
@@Dragan-t6w
Co pak pecete? What does this mean? It is not greek. Koinaomes praxin? Neither modern greek, nor ancient greek. Look. Go get a hot bath. Then a cold one. If you don't feel better after that, please don't write back, cause it Wil be me, the one who will be needing a hot bath. Just to justify the blood on my face, as I'm furious with those who claim knowing sanskritic, akkadic and greek without being linguists and multiglotts. Even those are not specialists. Even those have made huge mistakes cause it's about languages which they don't know otherwise, but from books. Greek verbs' tenses, persons, names' cases, declensions, dialects etc, all this has confused them. Wasn't the term pelasghic or etruskik language faulsly attributed to the lemnian language, while it was just turks honoring a dead companion and member of their fraternity and wrote down their last words on the lemnos stele?
But who an I to degrade the omniscients?
The Atlantis myth is more than likely based on the Minoan civilization. Plato heard about an advanced civilization that suffered a cataclysmic event during the eruption of Thera on Santorini and their society went downhill from there.
Or it was based on one of the other, more recent lost coastal cities of the region. Or Plato made it up from scratch, to make a point.
No, it was probably just made up by Plato. There is zero evidence that a single soul in the entire Mediterranean world had ever heard of Atlantis before Plato wrote a fable about it to illustrate a political and social point he was trying to get across. This is quite unlike, say, the Iliad where we have documentation of multiple parallel strands of legend going back into the Greek Dark Age.
This is a widely-believed misconception. Both Plato and the Egyptians were well aware of the Minoan civilization, as well as its location. The Lost Island is clearly placed in the Atlantic Ocean by Plato (and therefore by the original Egyptian source). In southern Spain the Tartessian culture was very powerful during the first millennium BC and in close contact with the Phoenicians, and therefore also with the Egyptians. They are likely the original source of the Atlantis story. The Tartessians, according to Himilco of Carthage, were excellent seafarers, and had made extensive voyages throughout the North Atlantic. Certain ancient monuments on the Azores were likely constructed by Tartessian voyagers. They almost certainly had a legend of a Lost Island in the ocean, as did every people on the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and Africa, from Ireland down to Morocco. The Guanches, the original Berber-speaking inhabitants of the Canary Islands, had a similar story. All the evidence points to the volcanic Azores region as the original location of the Lost Island (its dimensions, given in the Critias of Plato, portray it as a little larger than Iceland). Many oceanic studies have confirmed the existence of a substantial island in the Azores region in the geologically recent past. The Columbia University expedition of 1948, for example, found sunken beaches and shorelines all around the Azores, as well as evidence of recent massive volcanic activity. The expedition's leader was Professor Maurice Ewing. Look him up.
@@thevelikovskian6119 What “original Egyptian sources”? People went looking for that Egyptian record of Atlantis in classical times, and didn’t find it. Plato likely made the whole thing up.
Every culture with a sea-coast seems to have a “lost island” legend or two. Many of them probably originated in some genuine sea level change or tsunami. Plato may have been vaguely inspired by one of those, but it’s hardly a logical necessity. But heaven forbid that the father of western philosophy may have had an original thought, I guess.
@@PhilMasters Diodorus Siculus talks about the Atlantians as if they still exist, and live on 'the shore of the Ocean' (the Atlantic ocean) in Libya (Africa), and Herodotus also refers to the Atlantes who lived in Northwest Africa near the Atlas mountains.
I think it’s possible it’s an isolate,and I wouldn’t be surprised if it someday proven to be one. I think it’ll be deciphered one day, after all Sumerian (probably the most famous isolate) was
I mean, Sumerian got deciphered only because Akkadians used it as a liturgical language long after its extinction, while using its script too
I definitely think it's an Anatolian isolate. All the domesticates that came to crete during the neolithic come from anatolia and the early minoans have little to no steppe component and are similar to neolithic farmers. Etruscan has a high steppe component but a language unrelated to Indo European languages so perhaps they spoke something similar but ultimately i think Anatolia holds the key to the Minoan language
Bravo
They were not identical to neolithic farmers. They had some chalcolithic/early bronze age anatolian genes as well. Migratory events didn't stop in neolithic period.
Anatolian connections are still the most likely to occur. Are we any closer to deciphering Luwian?
when you say anatolia what do you mean? ANATOLIA "East" is a Greek word meaning the place where the sun rises.
Where are their writings? How do we know their grammar and syntax? all linguistic hypothetical models are
@@panagiotis7946 we have remnants of isolates and other languages native to Anatolia. Hurrian is an example of an isolate but there are a lot more. I just think it's very likely Minoans would have some type of correspondence/associated with early neolithic farmers leaving Anatolia since their first domesticates and tech / cultural technology closely mirrors Anatolian early neolithic farmers.
Maybe an answere (to which language family minoan belongs) can be found via dna studies. Find the dominant haplo group- or groups. Work it out from there.
I guess the best chance is if bilingual diplomatic correspondence would be found in a Mycenean, Egyptian or Hittite archive.
Perhaps AI will soon give us the answer to this mystery, and to other historical mysteries.
The most plausible to me is that minoan is an isolate spoken only by some nutcases in remote villages. Liniar B is business records and military inventories - meaning that business was being done! It seems to be much the same as basque - a language with very little practical applications. Some have traced basque back to the stone age, as f.i. the word for knife and the word for stone is the same.
I don't think we will ever be able to read liniar A, as they have nothing to tell us.
An eminent english romanist started out as an egyptologist. The problem with that was that romans were predictable, but the egyptians were simply to weird to comprehend. We do understand the romans up to a point, but might not agree with them.
I was not aware that any of the Tyrsenian (Tyrrhenian) languages has been deciphered... Etruscan maybe (extremely) partially but without any conclusive results.
As to whether the Minoan was related to Greek, I think the chances of that are null. Otherwise, it would have been deciphered by now. Particularly with the existing, supposedly, intermediary linear B of the Mycenaeans.
I have always wondered what the Minoan language was.......maybe soon we will know 🤞
I read somewhere that they have a word for pregnant women, Kurwa. Althought this is not much, but the central european region is still a great user of this word, especially the Poles....
the term "Minoan" is an artificial term of archeology from Greek mythology.
.The language is Greek
linear writing was geographically found only in the Greek area
Keda means cedar. That's the only one I can remember.
@@panagiotis7946The language isn’t Greek. If it was Greek, it would have been translated by now.
Also, why would the Greeks invent a script that didn’t fit their language? They had to do all sorts of tricks to make it usable because the syllable structure is so different from Greek.
@@mrjones2721 the inhabitants of an area do not suddenly change
it's always there
what changes?
the means of production they use
we have an evolution of systematically writing
Cretan hieroglyphs---linear A---linear B
you change the linear A to fewer symbols and thus change both the grammar and the syntax and turn into a simpler writing system the linear B
this is the main reason why we do not decipher the linear A
because we do not know its structure
it was not the language of the inhabitants that changed, but the style of the language
the style of English in Shakespeare's time was different from today's English, but they remain the same language
but the royal hieroglyphs of Egypt from the popular hieroglyphs but the language is the same
the Greek alphabet is different in the 8th century 27 elements different in the 5th century 22 elements but the language is the same
change the language texture
Minoan could be related to Etruscan, but distantly enough that we can't tell today that they're related. If all that remained of the Indo-European family were a few inscriptions in Welsh and Armenian, it would be very difficult to tell that they're related.
maybe linear a is one writing system of Greek language with
shortcuts and root of Greek word and that is difference of Minoan with Mycenaean writing system exist one research is in Greek of 2023 and they use sigla research. in that research sillabogram who found ventris in linear a is shortcuts of word example ki=οι(κί)α or ra is shortcuts of word era= Ra= ie(ra), e(ra), a(ra)…άλας, ra, ρίζες: ιερά, άλας όπου ρ το λ γραμμική β ήρα έ(λα)ια άλας era….σ(ελά)να ρ σε λ γραμμική β. arana=αρνιά (arkh2)
or syllabogram ro= is shortcuts Ro, ru = a(ro)te, e(ro), ta(ro), a(rou)ra,….ρίζες: αγρόται , ιερό, τάυρος, άρουρα , ήρα
δεν λεμε πια ΑΡ , αλλα λεμε ΑΡΟΤΡΟ , δεν λεμε πια ΟΥΡ τον αερα , αλλα λεμε ΟΥΡΙΟΣ ΑΝΕΜΟΣ , δεν λεμε πια αρανα αλλα λεμε αρναδα ( το θυληκο αρνι ) και δεν ξερω αν οι ξενοι θελουν να μαθουν την αληθεια η απλα θελουν να μας αφαιρεσουν αξια ?? νομιζω οι περισσοτεροι θελουν το δευτερο . Νομιζω για ολα φταινε οι Ελληνες με μικρο το Ε , και καλα ακαδημαϊκοι που δεν ενδιαφερονται , και αφηνουν τους ξενους να παιζουν μπαλα στο δικο μας γηπεδο , ασε που πολλες φορες βγαζουν και χειροτερα συμπερασματα απο τους ξενους , ετσι για να γινουν αρεστοι οι ευρωλιγουριδες . Πολεμα αδερφε , καλα το πας !!!!!!!🏛🏛🏛
The Minoans are Thracians, not Greeks.
The Minoans are Thracians, not Greeks.
@@DimitarDimitrov-bk4xm JUST FOR LAUGHS , dimitri ov We name you Δημητρη
Minoans maybe have writing system with shortcuts and that writing system is for greek language exist research of 2023 in that research we see ταυροκαθάψια and inscription with form who we read inscription like ταυροκαθάψια που αγρότες αίρονται εις ταύρους διαβάζουμε αυτό ακριβώς. Έχω βάλει την Έρευνα εγώ νομίζω πως η γραμμική α είναι είδος γραφής με συντομευσεις, μέρος των λέξεων είναι ένα πολυριζικο σύστημα γραφής ακροφωνικό το οποιοδ διαφέρει σε αυτό ακριβώς από την γραμμική β πως η β όταν ενώνεις τα συλλαβογραμματα σχηματίζονται ολόκληρες λέξεις άνω στην α είναι συντομευσεις, πολλές φορές η ρίζα είναι περισσότερες από μία λέξη πχ ero ... Γραμμική β Ηρώ αλλά και ιερό arote ... Αγροται, ταρό... ταύρο και και η γραμμική α είναι ένα σύστημα γραφής της ελληνικής ακροφωνικό.
Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world
Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space
The language of Linear B is Greek
In the thousands of panels of Linear B we did not find a single one with a foreign language
In Linear A we do not have many inscriptions to draw firm conclusions but its evolution
Linear B is a further development of Linear A from it with different grammatical rules by the same people in the same Greek space
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
@@Dragan-t6w 1. the Vinča culture has a lot of interest, but it is a rural culture
where are the written texts and the cities?
2. symbols of the Vinča culture are also found in Greece
it is not a written system because the symbols were not repeated
3. we have culture when we have organized cities with residential planning, drainage
written laws
specialized jobs
Arts and Sciences
merchant ships for exports and imports
in order to create ships for voyages on the great seas, you need engineering knowledge
geometries geographies and astronomy
These do not exist in Vinča culture
4. the names for example Pelasgos Mykines Thrace Minos and all the other names only in Greek please explain
what do they mean in your language absolutely nothing
5. only the ancient Greek writings in the Greek language wrote about other peoples
why; because the other peoples had not reached such a level spiritually
6. the Cyrillic script is from the Byzantine period for the civilization of the Slavs of the 9th century
why didn't the slavs have writing?
7.Neolithic cultures, perhaps the oldest in Europe, are found in Greece 7500 BC
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo
@@panagiotis7946 You are not reading what I wrote "This is first world culture in development before anything else existed" then this culture spread to south with Pelasgian peoples, than the wild Greeks came and learned everything took the language (See below). If your skin is white your ancestry is Pelasgian, if your skin is little bit dark your ancestry is Greek. Because Pelasgian where dominant they developed everything what Greek today is, I can give you all the proof. You are saying it is not proto Serbian but it is Greek and I’m saying that’s the same.
I could add lots of samples in the 1000.
(Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
Καλά εσύ είσαι πολύ μορφωμένος βουλωμένο γράμμα διαβάζεις,δουλεύεις πολύ την τρομπα σου
A base-10 numeral system is very advanced for the time! If they used it in a place-value system they'd be the only ones in the ancient world other than the Babylonians to do so (although the Babylonian system was base-60).
FROM GREEK LINEAR B ( 2000bc ) TO PARSLEY
linear b : selino , old latin : petroselinum , medieval latin petrosilium , old french : peresil , old english : petersilie modern english : parsley modern spanish : perejil
Ancient Greeks used to consider us Celts-Germanics as speaking “bar bar bar”; hence the word barbarian.
Perhaps Ancient Greek language has elements that are not related to Porto-Indo-European? Perhaps we can compare these weird mutations to Linear A. :)
Hopefully we can use AI to derive some more insights into Linear A.
Linear A is much older.... Those "letters" appeared before 2000 BC on the Cycladic islands.
Greek!
Pre-Indoeuropean /pre Greek to be precise....
Egypt
@@markiec8914 Greek people were shipped here from egypt
Super mavro NEVER IT WAS GREEK! !!!
@@ΕλευθεριοσΓρηγοριου-φ6τ Never Greek
subject interesting, but the tone of the voice is so boring... it's a pain to ear it... Are you bored to tell this story ?
Try switching to 1,25x or 1,5x speed
Since these socities were fairly illiterate, it would make sense that that, when the ruling class of 'Mycenenaen' background took over on Crete, there were scribes doing most of the scribing, so, they started scribing a new language with the old system...sadly, while the Egyptians had probably been communicating with these guys since before Thera blew up, I would bet you dinner that 98% of it was done using cuneiform in the language of tje Pharoahs, but it MIGHT be that some, few, linear texts are still findable on the African continent...not that I would expect it to significantly increase the total...
BRONZE AGE GREEK
Linear B
The greeks came down from the north into what is Greece today only several hundred years after the minoans started to write in Linear A.
The Myceneans were yet to conceive themselves as "Hellenes" in the Bronze Ages....
@@ulrikof.2486 "Minoans", "Cycladians" and "Mycenaeans" were natives Greeks of Bronze Age.
@@blackarawak83 Their language considered as the early stages of the Greek language.
4:59 the = sign in the pictograms denotes 'male' ... (just saying) :-)
I think it would’ve sounded very much like language from the Lavant that or Anatolia
Do you think it could've also sounded somewhat like Greek except not really intelligible?
@@WanaxTV probably somewhat like Cypriot today
@@Weedwizard600 cypriot is greek not a separate language, they may use some different words from ancient greek origin but mostly its just greek with different accent im greek and can understand them because they speak greek lol
@@Error_-qz2zr when did I say that Cypress isn’t Greek origin? I said it sounds like it’s from the Lavant which it does.
@@Error_-qz2zr I’m Greek to and don’t pretend that Cypriot isnt hard to understand sometimes lol
I think archeologists still have a lot of work to do. There are certainly a lot of things buried under sea level. We could also extract ancient DNA from human remains if we find them.
I m just talking about an intuition, this is why my words have a very little worth, but I m convinced the ancient Minoans where highly influenced by the Aegypthians, and the script should be somehow influenced by their superior culture. This is why I wonder if the key of decifring lays in Aegypt, and their linguistic experiments with demotic or even their experiments that brought to the origin of the Alphabet...
They were influenced by the Egyptians, but the scripts are unrelated, and so are the languages.
The Minoans also lived in the cyclades there are even archeological sites in Thera island (Santorini) so it might be just another writing system of Greek
I think linear B is consider as an ancestor of Greek, but we dont know if thats the case for Linear A as well. Probably not.
@@stelios5314 we can only wait
@@stelios5314 Probably Yes...
@@captainjim1010 No proofs yet
No. That hypothesis has already been tested and failed. The sound values that have been derived from Linear B, known to be Mycenean and proto-Greek, that overlap with Linear A do not map on to any reconstruction that resembles Greek.
Minoans were neolithic Anatolian people. Its the first people of Greece before the arrivals of Indo European Greeks. Modern Greek today is mixed with this both culture's and people
Beloved Greece with her immense history and culture!!! even if there are still barbarians who want to take over... studies and reading help
All of the Greek history and "culture" is appropriated from it's neighbors
@@supermavro6072 sweet Dreams jealous hen
@@supermavro6072 how many complexes... jealousy?😭😭😭😭😁
@@supermavro6072 from its neighbors who didn't exist at the time 😂😂 jealousy and pcychological problems at the same time
@@supermavro6072No just you bitching and jealous move on.
Very interesting! In history class, we were basically told: "We just don't know how to translate Linear A.".
I remember that at the time, this sounded strange and somewhat unsatisfactory to me, so since we knew Linear B, but I don't think the teacher ever went in depth into why that was.
And 13 y.o. me wasn't bothered enough by it to ask further.
I think their language is isolated just like Etruscan, and it might be related to early Anatolian farmers who immigrated from the Middle East into Europe.
Has Artificial Intelligence been utilized to decifer Minoan Linear A?
lol, perhaps they use advanced greek mathematics
No. There’s not enough material to work with. It would be like trying to reconstruct English from a sheaf of grocery receipts.
@@mrjones2721 it has already been deciphered and have been proven to be related to egyptian, Now stop copping
@@supermavro6072 Somebody else says it’s deciphered and it’s definitely Hungarian. Another guy says it’s Japanese. A whole pile of people say it’s Greek. Before you want anyone else to believe you, you had better convince some more people that it’s Egyptian.
Could the Minoans be related to the Phoenicians? Can the few names known from Knosos, e.g., Minos, led us some linguistic clue?
Related to Phoenicians ? ha ha ha ,,,, They were in Crete 6.000 years before the Phoenicians appeared in history ! As a mater of fact they even colonized the middle East .
Its a shame you being Greek and have no notion of history Blaka
Ο Μίνωας παίζει κεντρικό ρόλο στην ελληνική μυθολογία και συνδέεται με τα βασίλεια της Ελλάδας. Όπως όλοι οι Έλληνες, ο εγγονός του Ιδομενέα συμμετέχει στον Τρωικό Πόλεμο
τα μυθολογικά ονόματα της μινωικής Κρήτης όπως Αστέριος, Αριάνδος, Ανδρόγεος, Ιδομενέας, Μυριόνης, Φαίδρα, Μίνωας, Μινώταυρος, Δαίδαλος, Ίκαρος κ.λπ. είναι μόνο ελληνικά και στα ελληνικα ετοιμολογουντε
The “ph” in deciphered should sound like an “f”
please stay cool everyone....and patience
Give it a bit of time some albanian comments will pop up to put things back in order ! lol !!
Albanische 😂😂😂😂 junge gehe mal eine Aufenthaltsgenehmigung besorgen😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
yeah ,, surly the Albanians will claim it was Albanian ! According to them every thing and everybody was Albanian , rumor has it recently ,they are claiming JfK Kennedy was Albanian he he he
Manoan could be a pre indo European language, possibly predating the Europeans
So thier number symbols are basically computer code, 1's and 0's. Can't fault them on the simplicity
The fact that they used writing for administration suggests that what we do have may be an abbreviated, shorthand form of the language.
Like trying to reconstruct English from inventory sheets.
Are we going to disregard Cyrus Gordon's claims regarding Linear A?
Everyone assumes that, before Crete became Greek-speaking, there was only one culture and one language on Crete, the Minoans. What if there was more than one language spoken on the island? You think I am wrong in raising this hypothesis? Can you prove I am wrong? Where would I get such a silly idea, you might think? Well, look no further than Cyprus, another island of the eastern Mediterranean about the same size as Crete. Did you that throughout much of its history, there were multiple cultures coexisting on Cyprus? If it's possible on Cyprus, why not on Crete? Would it be surprising that the ancient sources don't mention multiple cultures? I do not think so, because the Greeks did not know much about 'Minoan' Crete in the first place.
Well, it became greek speaking. Nobody there speaks eteokretan anymore.
Υποθετης εγώ δεν υπόθετο ότι οι πρόγονοι σου την εποχή αυτή ζούσαν πάνω στα δένδρα.Το ότι μιλάς και γραφής το χρωστάς στους Έλληνες
@@jarlnils435 Nobody speaks latin anymore either. Then, why bother studying the Roman Empire. Is that your reasoning?
@@kamikazes03 no, not at all
DNA studies show overlap between Minoans and Myceneans. How did the Myceneans not know much about the Minoans?
It is important to know that this people was neither Hellenic nor spoke their language. The Hellenes adopted their script as described in the video.
Yes this what i say all the times. At that time there Ist no Greek or Hellenic. This is few thousand years before. Greeks came later, didn't call themselves Greeks and so on. The so called scholars are a hoax. You can find 65% of linear A signs in the Vinca script. But nobody cares. Even linear B isn't deciphered. That's simply not the truth.
That's not entirely accurate. Considering the DNA link between the Minoans and the Mycenaeans who are Hellenes.
As for what they spoke well that's what this video is about. Parts of Linear A exist in Linear B which the Mycenaeans used.
@@VoltesWithElias They werent Hellenes. Modern Greeks Have ancestry From minoans. And they were known to mix with Carians who are related to Minoans.
@@VoltesWithEliasit's called acculturation as it happened throughout Europe. For example the pre-Celtic non-Indo-European speaking people of Britain and Eire became totally Celtized by the early Iron Age, thus no one really knows about the languages spoken in the islands prior to the Celts. However; Insular Celtic languages have retained archaic pre-Indoeuropean feature not found in say (continental Celtic) Gaulish.
Some archeological finds suggest that minoans did human sacrifice
Minoans also have relations with West Anatolia. There was a Minoan colony in Miletus. Miletus was in the territory of Arzawa Kingdom. We know that Arzawa had frequent diplomatic letter traffic with Hittites and Egypt. Arzawa clay tablet archive still couldn’t found. Arzawa was the only one late bronze age Agean civilisation that their writing content was not limited with trade recordings like Myceaneans and Minoans. Most probably Arzawa archive includes very valuable informations about late bronze age Agean region.
Arzawa was the second main power in Anatolia at late bronze age (bc 1600-bc 1200) and regarded as main power during the Hittite’s short dark age (bc 1500-bc 1400).
Minoans were weakened after Bc 1450 big earthquake. Myceaneans attacked weakened Minoans around that dates. There is a possibility that Minoans requested help from his neighbours. Arzawa was the closest compared to others. Arzawa conquared Crete and Morea Peninsula at bc 1.900 according to archeological findings. Arzawa can set contact through Miletus. There could be a communication through clay tablets. Arzawa clay tablet archieve most probably includes a lot of information of Late bronze age Aegean Region. Hittites and Egypt documents dont mention Minoans. It is also interesting that while Minoans were invaded by Myceaneans, Hittites were in short dark period and Arzawa was the main power in Anatolia. It seems impossible that Arzawa didn’t do anything while Crete was invading. Also other West Anatolian states (Assuwa, Caria, Lycia) could have been involved in this conflict since their Aegean sea interests was effected.
@@mukan9 no earthquake occurred in 1450
the subcontinent of Santorini erupted in 1650
the Minoans participated in the Trojan War
there is no invasion of Crete, these are free assumptions
it is funny to think that Minoans fought with Sparta and Pylos when they had such close economic and social relations.
What do we think the Mycenaeans went with 50 ships and conquered Crete?
stupid speculations that no ancient writer mentions
all the Minoan palaces were not destroyed.
Is the narrator an AI?
Not a chance. 🫡
When you see a word Tyrrhenian it should actually be pronounced n understood as Turhan which changes everything we no off
Even scholars of ancient history have fallen prey to emotionalism & imagination (Romanticism). We should be very careful to stear completely clear from such human tendencies when we're seeking the complete truth. Reality is always best for all of humanity.
Steer
Language and script are 2 different things .
This confuses a lot of people.
@@free_gold4467 on the contrary .
Script evolution of the Greek language from Linear to the Attic alphabet of the Classical Era .
@@Morph3as No, sorry, you've completely lost me with that comment, maybe it's just badly worded but it makes no sense at all to me.
@@free_gold4467 Do not worry , i am really sorry you dont understand , but i cant offer you any more help, except from suggesting that you read the actuall bibliography and references .
Yeah, well that's a basic assumption of the whole video. But that's your brilliant epiphany?