Watch This Before Buying ANALOG GEAR In 2024
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2023
- Explore the choice between analog hardware and plugins for music production. This video covers budget considerations, equipment selection, and building an effective mix bus chain. Discover the unique magic of analog gear and its impact on your sound. If you're debating analog vs. digital, this video provides valuable insights
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Thanks a lot for watching! Are you thinking about buying analog gear soon? Which unit do you want to buy?
I recently got a 500 series rack and there are some really cool things out that have made me start to invest in that format. The WES AUDIO stuff has me "drooling" and feel that is the future for the 500 series format IMO. I also am looking into a pair of NEVE 542 by the end of the year.
I've currently got a Art Pro MPA II and GAP Comp 3A and LOVE this setup no complaints. But was looking into a SSL Fusion mainly for some analogue MixBus/Mastering sound and for that final touch up. Informative video man 😄
You are making some really good points here IMHO. I also started as a plugin kid and gradually bought the hardware pieces that got me specific sounds. One thing I always liked to consider was versatility. I think, the Fusion and pieces like the 6176 or 4710d are useful in many applications. I use my Fusion on the master bus, on single buses and for tracking. So i get a lot of mileage out of that one box. With every time I use I get to know it better. So, if a musician is ready and hot and we are looking for THAT sound, I can just dial it in quickly. That in itself is a whole other dynamic than sifting through my plugins, puling one up and finding a setting. A piece of gear like the 6176 is not cheap, but it will give you great sounds for years and you will really get good at finding sounds. In the end, no listener will ever care what gear you used. On the other end, having a specific piece of gear around can help a musician nail a great take, and THAT, the listener will totally care for. :) Ramble *over*
It's actually best to get good instruments and a good preamp, if you are tracking. And good microphones for each task. It's the start of the signal.
Quality analogue gear from mic to monitor is definitely a game changer in my experience. . I've done it all over 35 years. Even tape.
Tape although a great sound, has it's obvious limitations. One being cost. Two being lack of editing.
Investing in analogue processing for betterment shows clients you mean business as well. Its very cool we have emulations of just about everything now. I just believe its now become accepted rather than the same. Especially if you aren't recording organically with mics and wires. So why not just tell your client to save their money and buy plugins and learn to use them? Why pay an engineer or what we call today "producer" In fact thats anyone who has an Imac now I have witnessed. Call me old guy ranting. Ive had years to enjoy the good stuff. Analogue gear is still outselling plugins overall. Sure its more but I dont think its going anywhere soon. I'm not saying anyone is wrong here. Do what you want to do. Just don't assume people should follow your methods. I enjoyed your video thanks. Its an going argument and you gave your reasons with class.
Hi! Thank you very much for sharing. Glad you enjoyed the video 🙏
i started by hardware now i mever went back fully in the box im hybrid
Great video! Very timely for me!
Thank you, my thoughts on this issue simply coincide word for word with the opinion you voiced. There is no doubt anymore, I plan to purchase a Warm Audio Bus-Compressor as my first rack-mount and analog device!
This video came to my life at the right time! You made the explanation very personal and understandable, I have mixed and mastered in the box for 12 years and Like you said, for the past 2 years I dont think I’m improving when it comes to output. I’ll invest into a mastering compressor and EQ to upgrade my mastering. Thanks for such a wonderful video.
This is a great informative video. I have been making music since 1992 and it was all analog hardware based back then, computers were used (if you had the money for it) but only for sequencing and it was very basic at best. You couldn't edit audio as easily as today and there were NO plug-Ins. I personally have a HYBRID studio now and prefer that workflow over the completely ITB approach. But you have address all the other things to consider if using outboard gear, like space, recall, and especially the cables which will be a HUGE expense. Like you I have quite a bit of outboard gear and will never go completely ITB. For me I think the investment is better in the long run. I sell and buy new gear frequently to upgrade to something else when I want, you just can't do that with PLUG-INS....I have so many plug-ins that have "DIGITAL DUST" as you have said, that are just worthless now. The main advice I hear you saying is be very strategic with your purchases, and think LONG TERM.
Hehe yeah I think we all have some plugins collecting digital dust. It’s a shame that digital things get quickly forgoten (like music). I guess it’s just how things evolve, but I still feel a piece of analog hardware has so much mor value that a plugin. Just like a vinyl has much mor value than a spotify playlist 😀 thank you so much for your input
Just stumbled across this, super useful.
The biggest problem I have right now. Is plugin wise, I have a beast of a system running well over 30 tracks with instruments running with no bouncing, zero latency / slow down.
HOWEVER, I'm now moving into the realms of recording drums / acoustics and the want to re-amp. I have some very clean converters on my RME UCX II. But without any outboard gear I'm already at around 11 IO's (excluding drums alone), worried I'll start running out of IO quite quickly if I were to bring in things like a 500 module (Cranborne ADAT) for my vocal / guitar strip to run through the 500 modules to get more of an analogue tone. This isn't even factoring in things for the mix bus.
Then there's the obvious fact that it feels like I'd then end up having to upgrade to something like the UFX III which puts another few G's just to get that additional IO / Madi.
Check out ferrosfish they have an affordable 32 io at a good price!
Very informative video... all great points... at around 7:30 I was wondering why you didn't opt for a patchbay instead of an additional interface
Good point, I love my patch bay work flow and maintain UA Apollo with asp880 adat, didn’t need the bigger X rack I’ve got 16 channels from Db25 just from adat, 2 more from DI pres and 6 total hiz between shelford and Apollo ins
That’s 24 tracks with 8 channels of Ethercon and the patchbay puts it right on my lap
i started with plugins now im hybrid which is the way to go keep in mind having high quality converters will speed up mixing as it removes that dull sqaushy sound its like lefting the blanket away you can heat the plugins like reverbs work better translation works better cheap interfaces will make you work harder and longer you want to make fast decisions my current gear is a neve summing board a maag eq4m dangerous compressor im also building my own compressor using high quality parts my music now sound amd hold up like major releases it takes lots of work and training
Great Stuff ! this is worth the watch!
Much appreciated!
Great advice for an analog newbie like me. Thanks 🙌
Glad it was helpful!
Informative Video. Thank you :) ... Are you Moroccan ?
I am more or less in the same boat as you are , I have been mixing in the box for close to a decade and recently started going hybrid for exactly same reason that you mentioned - the mixes were not going to the next level with plugins anymore. I started my analog journey with the SSL Bus+ and its been the best thing that I did to my mixes in a very long time, the previous one was room treatment several years back. The glue to the final mix that this compressor creates is no where close to what plugins do. I have often heard that plugins are weak especially in the area of compression when compared to hardware and I could very well hear that now ! I am currently looking for the next piece of gear - I am not sure analog EQs will make a lot of difference since plugins are very good esp at surgical EQ and I already have a dynamic EQ on the Bus+. So looking at stereo channel strip like carnborne EC2 which can be used on the mix bus as well as for tracking. The content in this video is very genuine , practical no-nonsense stuff very useful for beginners in the analog world. Thank you.
Hey man! So sorry that it took me so long to answer ☺️ very happy to hear you found the video useful. I heard wonders about the bus plus, I also want to add it to my setup at some point 😃😃 if you don’t want to invest in an Eq maybe you can add the Ssl fusion, which is a great companion for your compressor 👌👌
Get a pultec style eq trust me it's worth it on your mixbus
Channel Strip for me Neve Shelford Channel Strip diode bus comp, red blue silk one of Rupert’s finest designs
I heard so many good things about it! Might be worth checking out
This was super informative. Do you find the Dynamic Range of the Apollo stuff a huge deal? I wanna incorporate analog as well but shelling out 5k for a better converter is scary
hey! Before I bought the dangerous music AD+ I was using the apollo converters on the way in and it sounded pretty good. So I wouldn’t worry about that too much✌️
I totally agree with you, my computer is nothing more than a digital tape machine for my use. I mix on an analog desk with analog hardware. Recalls are no problem for me because a mix review doesn’t usually take longer than 24 hours, once agreed on the mix I print it. The most important thing about analog gear for me is the sound and the workflow. I have everything in front of me and can mix intuitively fast. Also I needed a lot of processing and a lot of plugins to achieve the same results in the box and a mix took me a lot more time than on the desk. Of course you can get amazing results in the box but the analog workflow just works better for me. Also like you said you can slowly get a piece of gear at a time and slowly build up a nice chain mixing hybrid. In time you can build a great setup with equipment made to last a lifetime.
Audioscape Engineering analog gear seems like good bang for the buck. I own their Buss Comp.
Solid video
Thanks a lot! Glad to help
Also, the hardware is your forever and you can sell it later. All the manufactures making plugins will charge you for the newer versions of plugins you already own, and payed for! This just happened with me with waves! The 3d hardware brings is different!
Dubstep,dnb... distressors were impossed choice for me xD
Make your own cables and save a TON!
I was gifted an xla 500 compressor and pulltec eq.. but I don’t know what to do with them. Still need a chasis
You can send them to me😂😂😂
Big LOL.
You don’t need a chasis. Just stack them on your desk, plug em in, and go to work.
@@ThatProMix I did a little research after posting this comment and found a free chasis locally, nothing fancy, huge power supply. I’m now running my moog sub 37, my analog RYTM, digitone and vocals through a patch bay into the chasis. Now I want a usb recall chasis and alllllll the units!
@@vanhaze2000 I had meant I had no knowledge on each unit, their specifications, limitations, etc. they were just given to me with zero context. If that’s something to laugh at then you have a very simple level of humor. took about 5 minutes of research after my honest comment. Now running my Moogs, elektron analog rytm, and my vocal mics through a patch bay into the chasis. Got the Weiss chasis and some other units on my list for the other half of my desk. Keeping one side for instant recall and one side for vintage pieces.
Good video but show some pics bro
I used to buy analog in my dream, haha
Any examples of how analog devices are "better" than their digital equivalents?
I am curious to hear specific, audible, tangible differences that are convincingly justifying cost differences, rather than hearing that "...there's a certain magic that analog equipment brings that can't be replaced by plugins..." (at ~ 11:04)
Hey! thanks for watching :)) there are a lot of videos on UA-cam that test 1 to 1 analog vs. digital gear. You can check those if you want, for me, is not a scientific approach, is something that you feel. That's why I use the word "magic". Once you start adding analog gear to your setup you fight less with the mix and everything sounds just more organic. Also, for me, it's not just one analog eq or compresor vs. the digital counterpart, it's the sum of several pieces of gear interacting with each other.
That's not to say that anybody with a lot of equipment is going to make a great mix just by having it. Of course you still have to know what you are doing.
@@ThatProMix I am not surprised by your response .... I asked because, to me, the magic happens to work in an exactly opposite direction... there is a certain magic that VSTs and digital equipment bring that can't be replaced by analog gear..."
@@jacekmaui7381you are the only idiot on planet earth that has ever said that.. put down the crack pipe.
@@jacekmaui7381lol
There is a huge difference when you track in hardware vs plugins to get the sound you want out the best out of your instrument and sounds.... if you think a $60 dollar plugin is going to do the same as a $4000 EQ you're crazy plugins cannot replicate electricity and distortion that gives you something great and you can run hot with digital it sounds horrible vs a board. Now does that mean you can't do great songs digitally of course not..... but there isn't one great song that hasn't gone through analog gear in the process of its development.
I was a kid I thought I would want a, CBS Volume Max. But no may be a CBS, Audi Max? To mix drums through going to my, Ampex 350-2 Stereo Tape Recorder. With all metal envelope tubes! You can't see the tubes glowing. They are under black metal tubes. And it was a bummer when you couldn't see the tubes glowing. The VU meter light is on. Why aren't I hearing anything? The tubes are not lit up. Because they don't have glass envelopes. They have black metal. Now what?
Of course by the time I got my first cheap 16 input portable Taiwanese made British console for $3700 US in, 1987. With 16 inserts. That could not drive, 600 ohm loads. So I got a pair of rev H, 1176's. And no problems. They sound great. Because they have 20,000 ohm inputs.
So don't even think about a, LA-2 or 3 or, 4. Forget about it. With an average, run-of-the-mill, consumer in mind, audio gear stuff. It'll sound miserable. And you'll wonder what's wrong? You won't have a clue. I've seen this happen too many times.
And then the issue of internal gain staging, alone.. By cheating everything down an additional 10 DB or so. Make the difference up in software later. Deal with the noise with the software. And Voilà! You get 100% perfectly acceptable professional sound, each and every time.
Some of us know how to do it. Others fake it with college degrees. And learn from us who don't have them.
In college degrees are greatly overrated when it comes to audio. When an expert tells you what you are hearing. Walk the other way. They don't know what you are hearing. Because they don't know what they are hearing. And they are looking at you for a reaction. Do their students here it at all? Because they can't. They don't know what to listen to? They know something is supposed to be there. They just don't know what? So based on test data. They tell you what you're hearing. Yeah no. That's, not how it goes.
No. You have to know. What things are supposed to sound like. Before you can tell people what they are hearing. This, a common problem with college degree experts. They think mathematical formulas and textbooks. Listen, hear, evaluate and can tell you what they are hearing. As inanimate items and constructs. Yeah no. They can't hear or evaluate anything. They are mathematical formulas and textbooks. Whoever thought they could hear and evaluate anything? College professors? Were they deaf? Obviously.
And so everybody listen up! Instead of listening down. You are currently listening down. Reverse the connections on both of your speakers. You think they are correct you follow the directions. The directions are wrong. They got the directions backwards due to a mathematical reason. It makes sense in math. It doesn't make sense when you are trying to listen to it that way. But textbooks and mathematical formulas told them what they were hearing. And they flunk.
Some of us know what's going on and we can explain it. Which is kind of unique. As some of us are actually articulate. And we can tell good jokes. About stupid audio marketing phenomena. Unknown Audio Phenomenon. Or, You Ape Peese. So there can be no mistake. Just what you saw and heard in the toilet bowl extravaganza of diminishing returns. That may come back to the future? Unless we can prevent it? Through water/shit ablation.. Yes indeed! I can see it now. On the Big Screen. Shit Ablation, the Movie! Opens in November 2024! In a world! That is destined to Explode! With Laughter and glee. A failed musical. Because it was on Broad Ways and Means. But due to obesity. It has become the, Weighs and beyond the Means. Of memes. Opening in some, Fridays for You! In a world!
For Geico insurance call a caveman.
RemyRAD
My dearly departed late buddy, Kuster McAllister switched from an API to a Yamaha LOL. As he realized the same thing as I did. Only we know the difference. And it really doesn't matter. I approved it in 1987. Before I got my Neve to replace my Sphere Eclipse C that, replaced my Auditronics double, 501's. I fondly called my 1002. Which replaced this. Soundtracs 16-8-16. As pitched and hawked by Pete Townsend of the Who. In 1983. And I didn't purchase it for its,, sonic integrity nor specifications. I purchased it. For the features it had I wanted. I was confident. The sound would be adequate. And it sounds like it is. With some of Washington DC's hottest jazz rock musicians. And my small supply of microphones. And nothing special was used. I was using RadioShack impedance converters/adapters for my DI boxes. It's all very funny. Certainly not my Elitist Pro Set up, I've had for the past 30+ years. So it's very funny. And I hate mixing with headphones! It's a bitch keeping the low and tight. And not all bloated sounding. And you cannot evaluate the low-end properly with headphones. As when it sounds good. It'll be too much through the speakers. So you mix. Hearing hardly no bass. And then you get a tight recording. That's not all blubbery sounding. And you have to remember to invert the phase on the bass drum. Everybody forgets to do that. You do it for a bottom snare drum microphone. Why not the one inside the bass drum? I think I learned that from George Massenburg when I was 15 and he was 23. When I visited his studio. My high school bandleader arranged as a field trip. But I already knew who he was. As I was planning to be just like him.
And 7 years later. I would build a competing studio in Baltimore to his. Just up the street. About 5 miles west. And then he closed and moved to France for a couple of years. And then to LA. I moved to New York City. And went to work for the same studio with Bob Clearmountain. Yeah both of those guys. I just went to work later for NBC. And I didn't get famous there. Like they did. But I've had just as many billions of people here my work. They just never knew it. And so I'm the same kind of engineer they both are. That's why I'veWorked for who I've worked for. Over 50+ years. And made history. And multiple major music award nominations also. I just don't get any royalties. In other words. I'm broke. Like most everybody else. And only those guys hit the rock 'n' roll lottery. We don't all get to win the big cash prizes.
That's right. I won the smaller cash prizes. I ended up with a couple of custom Neve consoles. From a couple of NBC-TV, Audio Control Rooms. I used to work in. I used to work on. I used to work with. And then bought both of them. There was a, third and fourth, I didn't go for. I didn't want to be greedy. I should have been greedy. But what the hell? I figured let other people enjoy them. They are great, unnecessary status symbols to own.
But people don't really care. When you can deliver this: soundcloud.com/user3139903/marshkeys10-31-87master From portable cheap junk decades earlier.
So, you decide. What's important? Really? Nothing but cheap microphones, cheap preamps and EQ's. And a couple of funky sounding and funky working, limiters. That do not deliver, and audible results. The results are quite audible. And with them. You need no stupid, Saturation plug-ins. When you manipulate them correctly. You don't need no stinking Saturation. Bob told me. He never really appreciated, Tape Saturation. I was like really Bob? He said really, Remy. Okey-dokey then!
Strangely? I do like some actual tape saturation on some drums, sometimes. But hey that's just me. And you'll hear it on that track. With the last 2 cuts. Being remixes. From my TASCAM 38. Half inch, 8 track, analog tape recorder. Running without any noise reduction. Remixed through the same cheap audio console. The following night at home. And I like the saturation on the drums. So I don't know what Bob is talking about? It sounds nice. A little softer fatter Fuller. At 15 IPS. Bring 3M Scotch 250. At, 6 DB over, 250 nano webers per meter 0-VU.. Back to that DAT recorder. And so that is single generation, tape saturation. Not 2 times over. Bob Clearmountain might be thinking of? When we also mixed to, analog tape. That's 2 times over. And yeah. I can certainly understand that. And mix from analog to digital is better. Like you are hearing here. Where that Saturation really works well. And with no Dolby or DBX tape noise reduction. I run 100% barefoot. And so you will hear some tape noise. Oh dear. Oh well LOL. It goes with the territory. And you record the analog tape noise to digital. It adds its own analog dither. And so it works great with digital. It has pre-dither. I bet you didn't know that? Not many people realize that. And so analog tape hissing. Makes digital sound better. Makes it sound more organic.
I bet you didn't know you would learn all of that from my posting? It's because I'm an actual deep now retired professional. This is all I have ever done. And I have worked for some of the most legendary of the American, Pro-Audio Equipment Manufacturers of recorders and audio consoles. The best ones! It's so funny. Watching all of you children trying to figure this out. Looking for the magic beans. To your audio utopian Nirvana! And Curt's dead. It was only then. I got to record Dave Grohl in 1994. He was so funny. I had never met a funnier guy. And then he left and forgot the recording I had for him. He got very stoned I guess? Sure he did. It was the official sanction, NORMAL SMOKE IN PROTEST. At 23rd and Constitution Avenue N W, Washington DC. On July 4. For this rock 'n' roll concert I was covering. I was recording. And we can smoke in front of the cops. Before it was legal. And not get arrested. And well? It worked! Years later it became legal. This is how you do it. With rock 'n' roll. It also helped stop the Vietnam War. Because we all came together with music. To soothe the savage beasts. Kickback and smoke a joint.
This is the way to actual world peace. God of everyone. Put this on the planet for us. It's non-poisonous. Non-toxic. Designed for human consumption. By God. Whatever God you believe in. And even if you don't. I don't. But it's here on this planet and it doesn't kill us. It extends life. By stopping wars. And passing the joint. That they hopefully will not Bogart. And I never knew he smoked joints? He doesn't in the movies. I don't think? Maybe he was stoned? And wouldn't pass the joint? Or just his style with the cigarette that killed him? We may never know? I sure don't? Can you tell? What's better? What won't kill you? A joint or a cigarette? Pick one. And only, one. And don't smoke the other. It didn't do Bogart any good. It was the cigarette. And he dead.
Of course it would be well over 100 today. And George Burns was a smoker also. So?
RemyRAD
I grew up in big recording studios as a kid starting at age 7. And so like anybody else. I started to design and build recording studios. Then also radio stations. Then TV stations. Then TV networks. Also recording studios for other people. Recording studios for me. Recording studios, in general. And here's a funny one I learned.
Lots of folks with home studios. With proper, lightweight, entry-level, home studio equipment. Want some of that, big studio gear also. And what's the first one they go for? A Vintage, Blue Stripe Silver or Black, 1176 Limiters. Yay! They are now in the big leagues!
Only problem is? It still sounds dull. Has no brilliance. No punch. Why oh why?
The average home consumer morons. Haven't really figured out. You can't take a consumer hi-fi output gizmo thingy. And load it down. With a professional 600 ohm, terminated input. Yeah no. It's not going to sound good. Everything is going to be horribly clipped and distorted. No matter what you do. No matter where you set your gain level. And even if you get it where it might be okay? The noise level is unbelievable like a waterfall. LMAO.
And they never figure this out? That consumer stuff cannot drive old-fashioned vintage, professional stuff with, 600 ohm, inputs. Whoopsy! Talk about clipped and distorted. You get the best clipped distortion that way. Nobody will want to listen to. And you will be left feeling befuddled and confused. And completely, clueless. It's very funny.. I've seen it happen over and over again through the years. And the decades.
Yes there is but, one or two versions of the 1176. I only recommend for the, greatest compatibility with consumer class grade gear. And that is the 1176 rev G or H or the stereo 1178. A favorite of Bob Clearmountain's. As it is only these 3 versions. That are compatible. With any professional and consumer gear. As those have, 20,000 ohm inputs. That will not load down, consumer gear. Making it sound stellar.
And Bob Clearmountain and I both know. The input transformers often those, Rev letter A-B-C-D-E and lastly F versions. All were 600 ohm input loading. Only designed for top shelf professional gear. Like vintage old, Neve,, API, RCA, GE,, audio consoles of their day. All 600 in. 20,000 ohm in, only offered later.
When input patches. On expensive, low-cost audio consoles. Were crapping out.. If you plugged into an old, 1176. Oh well. Real engineers like me knew better.
And when you adjust your gain staging. The way the manufacturer instructs you to. You are robbing yourself of, more than, 10 or more DB of headroom. And that's why all of your recordings. All kind of sound, topped out. Because it is. At least 10 or more DB, of clipping. Even if you don't see any red lights flashing. They can't/fast enough. Your eyes can't see it. But you are definitely hearing the effects. And wondering what's going on?
And so the joke is on the beginners for having the entry-level beginner equipment. This is why cheap condenser microphones. Now sound far better than the expensive ones that sounds dull. Because they are not better. They sound like amateur hour. But not to amateurs. And that's the best joke in the industry. They think that wispy and frequently tinny metallic sound is professional. It sure is for people with failing hearing. They certainly know what sounds good. They are half deaf already. And don't know it? What? Bob I said you liked to suck George. What? I said you invested in Charles Schwab. What? You thought he said, Schwab, the floor. What?
Have you noticed. They sell a lot of hearing aid commercials on TV. ON TV!
RemyRAD
What?
This is soooo SPOT ON! So many beginners with home ‘studios’ in a closet have no clue and think if they spend $500 on Warm Audio junk puts them in the pro leagues. It’s disgusting how companies like warm audio and Behringer use the phrases like “Neve inspired”. Or “Midas inspired”…. Using this phrases, fools the idiot beginners into thinking they’re buying something that it’s not. It’s just marketing bullshit. Nobody has ever book studio time because I know the specific plug-in or a copy of a great piece of gear but everybody has book studio time because I have the real gear and I know how to use it.
Going from quality ITB to cheap gear like Warm Audio is downgrading quality of your recordings.
Warm audio is cheap gear? I have a few of their products and I love them.. I dunno maybe I'm Def
@@triplebeam23 Looks like it.
@@triplebeam23He's using the term 'cheap' in the most relative way possible. This happens when one watches too many tutorials and in the end gets confused when their mixes suck. I'll bet you that he never ever used any analog gear, let alone Warm audio.
@@triplebeam23if you have ever dealt with real gear you would find the Warm Audio gear is disgusting.
@@nicefish10 it depends what you want to do with it, warm audio tends to make units that are a bit harsh in the high end so for eq not necessarly the best, however on the other end most of their compressors usually smash the signal very hard and with a saturation i never got out of my universal audio which tends to want to remain very clean even with a ton of signal, the tonebeast preamps are pretty cool aswell btw for room mics by example.. Again WA provides cool distortion, which can be usefull to glue tracks together, smash the shit out of a bass drum etc..