After listening a few times I could really tell the difference! Sorry for those who can't hear the difference, but the reality is that you can spend several thousand dollars on gear but may only receive an extra 10-15% in improved quality. The real improvement comes from ourselves as far as great performances and improving our skills in production, recording, mixing and mastering... Once we can accept that and become serious about audio engineering, we can then become excited to chase after that extra 5%-10% that an awesome expensive preamps can add to the signal! Moral of the story, if you think paying 10x more on audio gear is going to be like comparing a camera on a cheap android with the latest iPhone camera, then you are just not serious about youre craft and have no business owning expensive outboard gear!
Idk what you're listening on, but there's a pretty stark difference when I'm watching from my studio monitors, and that's considering UA-cam's audio compression for streaming. I'd imagine the difference to be even bigger when you have access to the actual wav files. The bigger budget stuff is warm, smooth, buttery but with an open & airy high end. The low budget setup didn't sound "bad" but it was harsh and electronic-sounding. That NT1A has a brittle high end that I'm not a fan of, but most of the difference in what we're hearing is really in the microphones.
Just a hint: when screwing the mic onto the shockmount, the idea is that you place the mic in your preferred position, and then turn the ring in the bottom, so the mic stays put. Not the other way around 😂
I feel like this comparison would make more sense if you used the same microphone, because the difference in and of itself could simply be accounted to the different mics, and not necessarily the other hardware units you purchased.
Would definitely like to see some future versions of this: same chain but different microphones. Start at the £100 budget end and work up tier to tier. Then we can see if the more expensive gear highlights the pros or cons of the cheaper microphones. If I was to guess you will get to around £400-500 microphones that sound different but arguably as good as the Neumann (i.e. more dependent on the singers voice etc)
the cheap stuff was just as good some will say better, thanks for showing us that we don't need to spend thousands of dollars to sound good! Plot twist
I agree with you. I'm guessing you'd have to be an audio expert and/or be listening on expensive headphones to be able to tell the difference. As for the other 99% of us mortals listening over our phone speakers or cheap headphones, both sound exactly the same 😅
There’s a big difference in warmth and dynamics when it’s mixed correctly. You’re playing yourself thinking “good enough.” Your favorite artist doesn’t think that way.
@@Bexgotthebounce yeah but your favorite artist doesnt record at home nor they mix or master their own stuff. And they obviously have more money to spend. Now, Im not saying there isnt a difference, and any music creator enthusiast should buy stuff they can afford and want to. BUT, the noticable difference for the average listener is nowhere near the money it costs, and you can have all the fun and decent results with cheaper equipment. And if you end up making it big, youll get acess to the best studios anyway.
Ive owned the AT2020 and it sounded good...but you don't really notice the difference in a cheaper mic until you start doing heavy equalizing and compressing. At that point you'll start running into hidden issues. If you run high bit rates and sample rates and heavy equalizing and compression in you'll notice why the TLM103 and U87ai which I own are so much better. But you are totally correct...listening from my phone I couldn't tell...but it did sound like the AT2020 sounded better. Just keep in mind sound and detail are two different things. If you was to listen to this same song in a car with a premium sound system you'd notice the detail and clarity captured by the Neumann mics. I used the AT2020 for years and it's still one of the number one mics that I recommend for beginners and people on a budget...but for those that want Hollywood detail and are using higher bit rates, sample rates, extreme equalizing, heavy compression, and recording in analog, and trying to compete with Hollywood quality and detail...They're definitely going to want a high end mic. Some songs are good...other songs are just hits that you want to play over and over and they just take you away. Maria Carey, Dr Dre, 50 Cent, Migos, and many others use the Sony C800G which is a $15,000 mic... And if you know how to use it it will blow a AT2020 out of the park. To someone that knows nothing about professional equalizing and (analog before converting to digital), and the proper vocal chain...they won't get the best from that mic. 2Pac used a Neumann tube mic on many of his songs. That's one reason why his songs are still hits today. A lot of people think a $200 mic is just as good as the high end stuff then they wonder why when a Hollywood song comes on their music is forgotten. It's the detail. So... Yes...work with what you have but when you get serious and learn the tricks of the professionals in Hollywood invest in yourself. Even upgrading to the TLM103 was a game changer. Much clearer and cleaner mic! But many people confuse brightness with clarity. Brightness is just when you turn up the high frequency. But clarity starts at the mic capsule and internal components and wiring. The capsule in the TLM103 is the same capsule in the $4,000 U87ai but the U87ai is a FET mic (similar warm sweet sound of a Tube Mic...like the Sony C800G). I've also owned the TLM102 which looks like the TLM102 but is smaller and doesn't have the same capsule as the U87ai. The TLM102 is okay but I got rid of mine for the TLM103 which is way better even though they nearly look the same...but like I said people that don't understand dynamics, use extreme compression and equalizing and analog and high bit rates and sample rates will probably never notice. If you don't use that then you won't get the best out of those mics. Everyone records differently. But when you're trying to compete with Hollywood...you take things more serious. If you don't have a lot of money but want compatible detailed mics of Hollywood and big names then check out Warm Audio... They are created in my city and state Austin Texas...They make high detailed mics equipment for like 85% less than the big names.
Nope, you still need that preamp to push the mic to that clarity and presence. No amount of eqing will do that. Might get away with no compressor though but once you save up and buy one at a time, it’s doable on a budget. Two years ago I bought myself a bae 1073. HUGE quality bump. Now im about to purchase the wa2a as well. I already have a wa 87r2 and a decent interface. And I’m poor. It’s doable & worth it if you want that quality
I have a healthy love of gear as well as a lofty dislike of acquisition. I really wanted a lot of the gear in this video and this past year of production mostly inside the box, I am not sure how they can get away with pricing them how they still are. It wont take long before its standard to be inside the daw completely and then I wonder what a lot of these companies will strive for. Great video and cool gear though. Cheers.
Hi Ed, audio engineer here. Just some constructive feedback for compressors that might suit your voice. Personally, I’d like to hear you sing thru a vari mu comp. Retro 176 is my favorite for singers with soft thinner voices because it adds weight but also depth and dimension. You could also serial chain an 1176 behind this to get more of that upfront “pop” vocal I think you’re going for. My favorite is the Purple MC77; kind of ugly unit but sounds amazing. I think you would find those more effective and flexible than a Tele LA-2A, and you could get both for essentially the same price as the LA-2A.
producer/ audio engineer as well here.... I second your advice. retro 176 is by far one of my favorite pieces of gear for vocals. I wouldn't waste money on a hardware LA-2A of any type just due to the fact tat plugin opto compressors are so good now. I think this dude just googled the most popular stuff without experience and blew his youtube money on it just to get more viewers.
Yep the retro 176 is magic … that 500 series retro tube pre on an sm7 is amazing as well. I also agree the warm audio 2A is garbage compared to the LA2A UAD plug-ins … Elam 251 or Sony mic is where the magic is for sure
Can you give me some advice I have the tlm103 and the neves 1073 I’m doing rap I wanted to get a compressor or get the u87 I don’t know what compressor I should get or if i should get a mic
I feel like the cheap stuff you had sounded almost the same as the expensive items, I really appreciate you showing us this so we don’t spend al that time finding out that it wasn’t needed. It’s just how you eq and edit the vocal is where the trick & magic is.
Also, with the brilliant minds creating plug-ins and computers processing power these days, most VST's are going to do a good enough job that you don't need thousands of dollars' worth of equipment. I've watched tons of shootouts, and the difference is negligible. It's all about your mixing skills.
not at all - if you turn up your speakers while he performs u will hear it. Its the difference of having okay vocals and kanye vocals . There is almost no noise on the dryvocal, and the lower mids and lows heaving much more depth in the vocal chain. This stuff u will feel when mixing the vocals. But i also give you credit in the mixing regard - even a great recording setup can be destroyed with the wrong room and or mixing in the end. What i like about those pricey setups is, that ur usually almost done with the vocal with minimal equing after recording it.
@vladlabyrinth6335 eq can help a lot but you tend to raise the noise floor or you get dynamic resonances with cheaper microphones where at some louder volumes you can hear it almost like a resonating rattle and that can't be fixed with eq. The reason why I use higher end gear is because of how much easier it is to just get the job done.
@@IntheDAW Any mic can have resonances on every voice. And electro voice re20, and kms 105, and u47. But get rid of high pitch freq on shitty at2020 and add a little of the lower end - easy process. In any case, using a microphone that is most suitable for the singer's voice is the right way to go
it's definitely not worth every penny. almost all of these items are marketed top-of-line prosumer. You can easily get comparable better results for less. Before buying a ton of expensive gear, just take a minute to talk to someone who's had some recording experience. You'll get much better bang for your buck than what your Sweet Water rep recommends.
I don’t wanna be that guy, but the U87 is not a tube mic. But that’s a big reason why it’s so popular. Whenever it was released it was one of the only non tube mics of the day. But by making it tubeless, the mic becomes faster a little more transparent then it’s brother, the U67. Love your channel and love this video!
I’m still very new to learning about all sorts of equipment thanks to this channel I’m learning about things I would’ve never thought about it how would I actually build my own vocal chain? I’ve never thought about using more than just a microphone and an audio interface
The clarity in the new set up! The warmth and fullness throughout the frequency spectrum. More lows present while maintaining a balance with the highs that keeps them bright without piercing my eardrum. I can definitely hear the difference. Absolutely! Congrats! Happy creating!
I don’t think it’s about the sound of things more of the transition to different things that you play it on like headphones, car , etc . Both sounded amazing
Ok, so I listen to the final section at first through my smaller JBL's. I didn't hear a huge difference. Put my AKG phones on and listened again. Still, not a huge difference. When it comes down to NOT doing a/b comparisons, your original set-up would pass as good. Thank you for saving me money. :o)
to be honest the biggest difference I heard was in the mic replacement. the at2020 sounded brittle and sharp and the u87 was more warm with a polished shine, not sure if the preamp or apollo is helping but the mic sound a whole lot better
May I suggest you run out of the WA2A using an XLR to TRS to the line input of your Apollo interface. Running into the mic line of your interface adds another gain stage and reduces the amount you can push the Neve and WA2A. Try it and let me know what you think. Great vocals.
Night and day! Sooo much more detail like you took a blanket out from in front of the mic. Granted that starting vocal chain is still REALLY good! AT2020 is the best entry level condenser mic as far as cost to quality is concerned. While i feel the U87 is great quality for an insanely overpriced cost. I’m looking at the sphere mic from UA along with the TLM 193 from Neumann. Holding off on any purchases until i get a new space since the room I’m living in now is awful acoustically and i never have any quiet to record.
The expensive setup sounds much smoother and clean, the cheap sounds more “fun” mostly from more of the low mids coming through. Worth it if you can afford it
HUGE difference! Especially to the harshness and sibilance! although you can clean that up later in post, general rule is the less digital processing the signal gets, the tastier/organic it will sound
We have this exact vocal chain. It’s really good but not our favorite set of hardware for tracking vocals. Definitely the TubeTech CL1B is in the mix along with a brighter microphone for the type of vocals we normally record
@@ImageLaneCC we typically have the gain set depending on the artist and how much saturation we are going for, as that preamp can be clean or tone saturated. However, we have not noticed any distortion unless you are referring to saturation as that can be referred to as the same thing
I appreciate the cleaner signal on the expensive chain, but my favorite is when the guitar came in with the higher vocal on the cheaper one. Thats the killer bit...
Is it true you can not bypass the preamps in the apollos even if you go through the line inputs? I thought all line inputs bypass the pres, but I've read multiple times it doesn't. Mogami Gold cables are Quads and can loose some high end. Short cables should not matter much. Qauds are best for noisy or long runs. Mogami 2649 cables are the best...if you care or can hear the difference. I went with the 2649's. My favorite vocal chain is my U67 > Shelford > RND's MBP > Burl ADC > AES/EBU interface REM UFX III > Mac Studio.
I’m working out my analog vocal chain for a home studio. I have a Russian Oktava 319 into a Golden Age Project 73 mkiii. EQ and compression are handled by plugins but I might add a GAP EQ. For a home studio I don’t imagine needing more than that. A U87 clone is tempting though.
Great video!!! My vocal chain is tlm103 > wa73 EQ > Hairball 1176 Rev A / Audioscape Opto Comp > EQPWA (just for tube saturation) > Apollo x6 then I run my entire mix thru 2 500 series SSL SiX channel strips and I can’t wait to add more to my mix chain !!
Sounds fuller, warmer and very dense. You can stretch it in editing a lot and won’t fall apart so easily. That is the difference. Affordable condenser mics often hide their flaws by giving you highs and people assume that’s better. Those that say there’s no difference clearly do not mix, let alone professionally. That’s the difference between 720p and 4K picture. They both look good on a small phone.
Great video,and reeeally great setup! Before i organized my setup,- i was thinking : should i buy for my microphones just one good expensive preamp ( and i already had one ),or would it be smarter to buy the chain from different components.. One of the reasons,why i have chosen the second option was very simple: if one expensive preamp will stop working one day - the whole unit is useless. But in the chain of few different components every part can be replaced. My gear is far from the word " expensive ",but the sound is fantastic: my mic goes into the valve preamp, then - into FMR Audio Really Nice Compressor (great and affordable unit! ), then- into the mixing desk Studiomaster ( made in 70´s with british EQ on board ) ,-then-into my interface. The sound is just great. This is my story. Thank you for great video ! Once again: great setup!
My current setup.: - Nuemann TLM103 - Apollo X6 - Warm Audio Wa76EQ - Warm Audio Wa2a - Warm Audio Wa76 - SSL Fusion - Heritage Audio Successor I’m thinking about replacing all the Warm Audios with the real Gears, is that even necessary?
Lovely setup. I personally prefer the look and sound of the Telefunken TF51 to the Neumann U87 for my voice, but they're both incredible microphones! Happy you've got your dream setup. Though I should say that you should've done a blind test, IMO. Of course the majority of people are going to say that the more expensive setup sounds better when they know they're listening to it.
can you explain why you don't use the uad plugins in your apollo interface and spend so much money on hardware? The UAD plugins sounds also great and work in real time or not?
I absolutely LOVE the 1073. I was using the Neve 88RS channel strip, but when I started playing with the eq on the 1073 I just fell in love with the silky smoothness/edge balance that I was able to achieve.
I could hear only a very slight tonal difference through my MX50x's and perhaps less noise but I can't say it's a "Huge" Difference. The gear looks amazing though :) I myself just run a Schoeps CMC5U Mk4 Capsule into a Grace Audio M101 then to a Apogee Duet 3 (line in ). Crisp, Clean and free of any coloration which I can add later if needed.
I wanted the u87 for ten years and in 2021 I finally got it and the super expensive shock mount (covid relief money FTW). I agree it’s a surreal feeling. I have the mogami cord too, so those are the best xlr? I always keep my u87 in its nice wood box. Do you ever leave yours out? lol cheers
Had 1073SPX chained with U87 and honestly after a year of tries I sold the 1073 and on the way to sell the U87. Thinking of getting back the TLM102 or AKG 414 chained with Avalon 737
Smart man!- I evolved the same way as wel all do, but once you get the REAL stuff- it's day and night and you no longer fight with mixing any vocal!-sounds like a record.
The better gear captures the inconsistency in vocals. You need and should hold a vocal mic and push the Neumann further way an arms length away. Not only does it work it actually is better using a vocal mic that is meant for vocals. I used the Blue Encore 100 on Linkin Park vocals paired with a Blue Bluebird. I ran the bluebird into excessive effects like a lexicon mx200. But better yet an aux mixer will give you complete control over the effects wet and dry giving a multiple view of the chain. You can hear more if it’s wet and dry. So that’s how the lexicon was used. Dual mono into an aux channel. One channel had reverb the other two compressors. The vocal mic had the compressors the big mic had one reverb. It works. It didn’t cost a lot to write Linkin park music. I even used Waves Audio plugins.
So refreshing to hear a South African pushing out content in a familiar accent. Do you mix at all and if so, where are you based? Maybe I can swing some work your way.
Looks like a great set up, Sometimes gear makes all the difference to the end result. I am a voiceover artist and my chain is the Cad e100sx mic, Mogami Cables, A warm audio mic preamp, and an Audient interface, not as advanced and great as yours, but for a voiceover it is great.
You convinced me to get the tlm 101 a while back I bought it then retured it then got a u87 but now I'm going to get a 1073 for shure great video as all ways
Here, where I am currently listening to the video through a conventional stereo system with ceiling speakers, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference with my eyes closed. I need to listen to it somewhere else again, but I personally suspect the following! Extremely expensive microphones are not better than good microphones costing around 100-200 euros. Additionally, the following must be said. It would also be interesting to have a recording of the same signal with the same microphone. Once recorded via the expensive analog hardware and once through the inexpensive interface which is then enhanced with analog plugin emulations. The wave files would be cool as downloads here, since UA-cam compresses the audio signal, right?
You could build a budget version of this chain quite cheaply actually. Grab a Wa-87 for the mic, alctron alctron mp73 pre, for the comp go with either a used wa-2a, new klark 2a-kt, or pick up a used art vla, with the attack and release both set to slow it does a pretty good la2a. About $800-1000 all in.
I really enjoy and feel happy, watching people having expensive gear at their simple apartments in civilized countries, without the fear of getting constantly robbed
If you have a hexacore Apollo, you could go with DSP LA-2 + something like Century Tube CS. Is it really necessary to have a hardware stack? Seems like overkill.
Great choice of gear for sure but, in all honesty, the biggest difference in the vocal chain is the microphone. Warm’s version of the U87 is a great copy and will sound great even through your existing Focusrite. Having great quality comps and EQ definitely helps on the front end as well as a clean interface but, it all starts with the microphone and a good, clean recording.
I just listened on my Yamaha 5 headphones big difference in sound quality the 599 setup is good but the 8000 dollar setup is next level and that's the goal when it comes to home studios getting the best quality sound for you music without going to a high end recording studio.
Some in a bad way audible compression goes on in the cheaper chain, but otherwise, listening on Focal nearfield monitors in my treated room, I don’t hear any kind of difference that justifies the thousands of dollars price difference. I wonder how it would sound, if you replace the WA LA2A and the Neve 1073 with the plugins you got along with the UA interface?!
Can’t believe the negative comments,you can go to the store in a Ford escort,or you can go in style,Absolutely, wonderful presentation Ed your vocals sound AWESOME
After listening a few times I could really tell the difference! Sorry for those who can't hear the difference, but the reality is that you can spend several thousand dollars on gear but may only receive an extra 10-15% in improved quality. The real improvement comes from ourselves as far as great performances and improving our skills in production, recording, mixing and mastering... Once we can accept that and become serious about audio engineering, we can then become excited to chase after that extra 5%-10% that an awesome expensive preamps can add to the signal! Moral of the story, if you think paying 10x more on audio gear is going to be like comparing a camera on a cheap android with the latest iPhone camera, then you are just not serious about youre craft and have no business owning expensive outboard gear!
Am I the only one who thought the "budget option" actually sounded better ..? 🤣
Awesome equipment though! Really cool.
Agree! His vocal already adapted to the old gears, its part of the vocal chain now.
For the dry sample it held up really good. But once it was processed the old setup sounded horrible.
@@henrikpetersson3463 And we will never know what he applied in that box.
Idk what you're listening on, but there's a pretty stark difference when I'm watching from my studio monitors, and that's considering UA-cam's audio compression for streaming. I'd imagine the difference to be even bigger when you have access to the actual wav files. The bigger budget stuff is warm, smooth, buttery but with an open & airy high end. The low budget setup didn't sound "bad" but it was harsh and electronic-sounding. That NT1A has a brittle high end that I'm not a fan of, but most of the difference in what we're hearing is really in the microphones.
@@juice.engineer I agree. Though, you can’t argue with taste. Well, actually you can, but it’s usually a dead end.
Just a hint: when screwing the mic onto the shockmount, the idea is that you place the mic in your preferred position, and then turn the ring in the bottom, so the mic stays put. Not the other way around 😂
I feel like this comparison would make more sense if you used the same microphone, because the difference in and of itself could simply be accounted to the different mics, and not necessarily the other hardware units you purchased.
Exactly, is not a fair comparison I don't know who he's trying to fool I track with hardware gear also and the mic plays a big role.
Exactly, the difference we hear is 99% caused by the different microphones not the chain, I have a u87ai and many others mics and preamps.
@@htmr78 the mic is big instrument in the vocal chain lol
Would definitely like to see some future versions of this: same chain but different microphones.
Start at the £100 budget end and work up tier to tier.
Then we can see if the more expensive gear highlights the pros or cons of the cheaper microphones.
If I was to guess you will get to around £400-500 microphones that sound different but arguably as good as the Neumann (i.e. more dependent on the singers voice etc)
would be nice but the comparison also makes sense the way he did it
the cheap stuff was just as good some will say better, thanks for showing us that we don't need to spend thousands of dollars to sound good! Plot twist
I agree with you. I'm guessing you'd have to be an audio expert and/or be listening on expensive headphones to be able to tell the difference. As for the other 99% of us mortals listening over our phone speakers or cheap headphones, both sound exactly the same 😅
There’s a big difference in warmth and dynamics when it’s mixed correctly.
You’re playing yourself thinking “good enough.” Your favorite artist doesn’t think that way.
@@Bexgotthebounce yeah but your favorite artist doesnt record at home nor they mix or master their own stuff. And they obviously have more money to spend.
Now, Im not saying there isnt a difference, and any music creator enthusiast should buy stuff they can afford and want to.
BUT, the noticable difference for the average listener is nowhere near the money it costs, and you can have all the fun and decent results with cheaper equipment. And if you end up making it big, youll get acess to the best studios anyway.
That's exactly what I was thinking 😂
Ive owned the AT2020 and it sounded good...but you don't really notice the difference in a cheaper mic until you start doing heavy equalizing and compressing. At that point you'll start running into hidden issues. If you run high bit rates and sample rates and heavy equalizing and compression in you'll notice why the TLM103 and U87ai which I own are so much better. But you are totally correct...listening from my phone I couldn't tell...but it did sound like the AT2020 sounded better. Just keep in mind sound and detail are two different things. If you was to listen to this same song in a car with a premium sound system you'd notice the detail and clarity captured by the Neumann mics. I used the AT2020 for years and it's still one of the number one mics that I recommend for beginners and people on a budget...but for those that want Hollywood detail and are using higher bit rates, sample rates, extreme equalizing, heavy compression, and recording in analog, and trying to compete with Hollywood quality and detail...They're definitely going to want a high end mic. Some songs are good...other songs are just hits that you want to play over and over and they just take you away. Maria Carey, Dr Dre, 50 Cent, Migos, and many others use the Sony C800G which is a $15,000 mic... And if you know how to use it it will blow a AT2020 out of the park. To someone that knows nothing about professional equalizing and (analog before converting to digital), and the proper vocal chain...they won't get the best from that mic. 2Pac used a Neumann tube mic on many of his songs. That's one reason why his songs are still hits today. A lot of people think a $200 mic is just as good as the high end stuff then they wonder why when a Hollywood song comes on their music is forgotten. It's the detail. So... Yes...work with what you have but when you get serious and learn the tricks of the professionals in Hollywood invest in yourself. Even upgrading to the TLM103 was a game changer. Much clearer and cleaner mic! But many people confuse brightness with clarity. Brightness is just when you turn up the high frequency. But clarity starts at the mic capsule and internal components and wiring. The capsule in the TLM103 is the same capsule in the $4,000 U87ai but the U87ai is a FET mic (similar warm sweet sound of a Tube Mic...like the Sony C800G). I've also owned the TLM102 which looks like the TLM102 but is smaller and doesn't have the same capsule as the U87ai. The TLM102 is okay but I got rid of mine for the TLM103 which is way better even though they nearly look the same...but like I said people that don't understand dynamics, use extreme compression and equalizing and analog and high bit rates and sample rates will probably never notice. If you don't use that then you won't get the best out of those mics. Everyone records differently. But when you're trying to compete with Hollywood...you take things more serious. If you don't have a lot of money but want compatible detailed mics of Hollywood and big names then check out Warm Audio... They are created in my city and state Austin Texas...They make high detailed mics equipment for like 85% less than the big names.
Boost the mids a tad on the $599 setup and save yourself $8,400
Absolutely
Nope, you still need that preamp to push the mic to that clarity and presence. No amount of eqing will do that. Might get away with no compressor though but once you save up and buy one at a time, it’s doable on a budget. Two years ago I bought myself a bae 1073. HUGE quality bump. Now im about to purchase the wa2a as well. I already have a wa 87r2 and a decent interface. And I’m poor. It’s doable & worth it if you want that quality
@@pinkdoobiee but is your music any good?
@@Larpeggio subjective but I record other artists
I have a healthy love of gear as well as a lofty dislike of acquisition. I really wanted a lot of the gear in this video and this past year of production mostly inside the box, I am not sure how they can get away with pricing them how they still are. It wont take long before its standard to be inside the daw completely and then I wonder what a lot of these companies will strive for.
Great video and cool gear though. Cheers.
the 9k vocal chain is just too clean, the dream of many vocalist
Hi Ed, audio engineer here. Just some constructive feedback for compressors that might suit your voice. Personally, I’d like to hear you sing thru a vari mu comp. Retro 176 is my favorite for singers with soft thinner voices because it adds weight but also depth and dimension. You could also serial chain an 1176 behind this to get more of that upfront “pop” vocal I think you’re going for. My favorite is the Purple MC77; kind of ugly unit but sounds amazing. I think you would find those more effective and flexible than a Tele LA-2A, and you could get both for essentially the same price as the LA-2A.
producer/ audio engineer as well here.... I second your advice. retro 176 is by far one of my favorite pieces of gear for vocals. I wouldn't waste money on a hardware LA-2A of any type just due to the fact tat plugin opto compressors are so good now. I think this dude just googled the most popular stuff without experience and blew his youtube money on it just to get more viewers.
Yep the retro 176 is magic … that 500 series retro tube pre on an sm7 is amazing as well. I also agree the warm audio 2A is garbage compared to the LA2A UAD plug-ins … Elam 251 or Sony mic is where the magic is for sure
Very good comment!
Can you give me some advice I have the tlm103 and the neves 1073 I’m doing rap I wanted to get a compressor or get the u87 I don’t know what compressor I should get or if i should get a mic
@@lortakeover2129 get the SSL Bus+ or an 1176 Style compressor... Im not a fan U87, I think they're overrated
Max out the output on the neve and lower the mic input to gain stage. You get more tube sound from the unit.
I feel like the cheap stuff you had sounded almost the same as the expensive items, I really appreciate you showing us this so we don’t spend al that time finding out that it wasn’t needed. It’s just how you eq and edit the vocal is where the trick & magic is.
yup
Also, with the brilliant minds creating plug-ins and computers processing power these days, most VST's are going to do a good enough job that you don't need thousands of dollars' worth of equipment. I've watched tons of shootouts, and the difference is negligible. It's all about your mixing skills.
not at all - if you turn up your speakers while he performs u will hear it. Its the difference of having okay vocals and kanye vocals . There is almost no noise on the dryvocal, and the lower mids and lows heaving much more depth in the vocal chain. This stuff u will feel when mixing the vocals. But i also give you credit in the mixing regard - even a great recording setup can be destroyed with the wrong room and or mixing in the end. What i like about those pricey setups is, that ur usually almost done with the vocal with minimal equing after recording it.
You "feel like"? Speak english!
"It's just"...lol. Yearite kiddo.
Man that higher end chain just sit so much better. No harsh tones still lots of air but so even. Amazing
They both sound good but usually better gear sounds less like a digital pocket recorder. You get that more polished radio like sound with better gear.
just use fking eq man lol)))
@vladlabyrinth6335 eq can help a lot but you tend to raise the noise floor or you get dynamic resonances with cheaper microphones where at some louder volumes you can hear it almost like a resonating rattle and that can't be fixed with eq. The reason why I use higher end gear is because of how much easier it is to just get the job done.
@@IntheDAW Any mic can have resonances on every voice. And electro voice re20, and kms 105, and u47. But get rid of high pitch freq on shitty at2020 and add a little of the lower end - easy process. In any case, using a microphone that is most suitable for the singer's voice is the right way to go
he crank up the high freqs in the budget one so we can tell the difference :)
this is definitely everyone's dream recording set up😂 So expensive but definitely worth every penny👍Always loving this channel!
Thank you for watching 🙏🏻
It's 🔥 for sure idk about dream though 😂 there's A LOT of gear and chains out there.
You love adverts because that's all these are.
it's definitely not worth every penny. almost all of these items are marketed top-of-line prosumer. You can easily get comparable better results for less. Before buying a ton of expensive gear, just take a minute to talk to someone who's had some recording experience. You'll get much better bang for your buck than what your Sweet Water rep recommends.
I wanted this set up til slate came in the picture
I don’t wanna be that guy, but the U87 is not a tube mic. But that’s a big reason why it’s so popular. Whenever it was released it was one of the only non tube mics of the day. But by making it tubeless, the mic becomes faster a little more transparent then it’s brother, the U67. Love your channel and love this video!
I’m still very new to learning about all sorts of equipment thanks to this channel I’m learning about things I would’ve never thought about it how would I actually build my own vocal chain? I’ve never thought about using more than just a microphone and an audio interface
Harshness is the enemy of professional sounding music and the expensive Vocal chain kills all the harshness. Nice!
The 9K Chain is very nice! warm, clean sound with more Air to get a better mix/master.
Im not a big fan of the U87ai on your voice to be honest. Maybe a Telefunken tf-51 or Soyuz 017 FET would be prefect with your voice. Check em out
The clarity in the new set up! The warmth and fullness throughout the frequency spectrum. More lows present while maintaining a balance with the highs that keeps them bright without piercing my eardrum.
I can definitely hear the difference. Absolutely! Congrats! Happy creating!
i agree the pro chain was less brittle and harsh
The U87 is super nice. Great vocal chain. My favorite setup is the SM7B through the Universal Audio 4-710d.
Nice , I got the Rupert Neve Designs channel strip. pre amp , eq compressor and saturator all in one for 2k - amazing sound
I would prefer to see more acoustic treatment on your vocal booth area. This alone will make a huge difference.
Good advice, that's often very much underestimated!
Great video!! I hear the difference i think the higher price gear sounds more colorful and unique but of course the cheapest sounds great too
I don’t think it’s about the sound of things more of the transition to different things that you play it on like headphones, car , etc . Both sounded amazing
Ok, so I listen to the final section at first through my smaller JBL's. I didn't hear a huge difference. Put my AKG phones on and listened again. Still, not a huge difference. When it comes down to NOT doing a/b comparisons, your original set-up would pass as good. Thank you for saving me money. :o)
to be honest the biggest difference I heard was in the mic replacement. the at2020 sounded brittle and sharp and the u87 was more warm with a polished shine, not sure if the preamp or apollo is helping but the mic sound a whole lot better
Why don't you use your Teletronix compressor from your UAD Apollo?
May I suggest you run out of the WA2A using an XLR to TRS to the line input of your Apollo interface. Running into the mic line of your interface adds another gain stage and reduces the amount you can push the Neve and WA2A. Try it and let me know what you think. Great vocals.
Night and day! Sooo much more detail like you took a blanket out from in front of the mic. Granted that starting vocal chain is still REALLY good! AT2020 is the best entry level condenser mic as far as cost to quality is concerned. While i feel the U87 is great quality for an insanely overpriced cost. I’m looking at the sphere mic from UA along with the TLM 193 from Neumann. Holding off on any purchases until i get a new space since the room I’m living in now is awful acoustically and i never have any quiet to record.
The expensive setup sounds much smoother and clean, the cheap sounds more “fun” mostly from more of the low mids coming through. Worth it if you can afford it
Congrats with the vocal chain. What about room treatment?
HUGE difference! Especially to the harshness and sibilance! although you can clean that up later in post, general rule is the less digital processing the signal gets, the tastier/organic it will sound
Where would you put a summing mixer in the vocal chain
I actually prefer the 599.00 Setup!!
Lolll
🤦🏽♂️
U have no idea ...
@@earjwee nah nah u need to clean them dirty ears my boy 🤣
Me too. But the other is more tame.
We have this exact vocal chain. It’s really good but not our favorite set of hardware for tracking vocals. Definitely the TubeTech CL1B is in the mix along with a brighter microphone for the type of vocals we normally record
@@ImageLaneCC we typically have the gain set depending on the artist and how much saturation we are going for, as that preamp can be clean or tone saturated. However, we have not noticed any distortion unless you are referring to saturation as that can be referred to as the same thing
This is like the hypebeast vocal chain
I appreciate the cleaner signal on the expensive chain, but my favorite is when the guitar came in with the higher vocal on the cheaper one. Thats the killer bit...
Would be great if you could put up the raw tracks for everyone to A/B themselves!!
Is it true you can not bypass the preamps in the apollos even if you go through the line inputs? I thought all line inputs bypass the pres, but I've read multiple times it doesn't. Mogami Gold cables are Quads and can loose some high end. Short cables should not matter much. Qauds are best for noisy or long runs. Mogami 2649 cables are the best...if you care or can hear the difference. I went with the 2649's. My favorite vocal chain is my U67 > Shelford > RND's MBP > Burl ADC > AES/EBU interface REM UFX III > Mac Studio.
I’m working out my analog vocal chain for a home studio. I have a Russian Oktava 319 into a Golden Age Project 73 mkiii. EQ and compression are handled by plugins but I might add a GAP EQ. For a home studio I don’t imagine needing more than that. A U87 clone is tempting though.
Much smoother sounding in the mix for the high-end set up.
Hi, didn't you already own the wa273? Why did you upgrade to the original neve 1073 and does it make a huge difference?
Sweetwater was kind enough to send me a 1073, and since I've always wanted one, I couldn't resist.
I can tell the difference, the later one vocal is kinda more clean and more in front of you, it is different. Good sharing, thanks a lot!
Great video!!!
My vocal chain is tlm103 > wa73 EQ > Hairball 1176 Rev A / Audioscape Opto Comp > EQPWA (just for tube saturation) > Apollo x6 then I run my entire mix thru 2 500 series SSL SiX channel strips and I can’t wait to add more to my mix chain !!
Awesome!! 💪🏻
Congrats boss you earned it!
Sounds fuller, warmer and very dense. You can stretch it in editing a lot and won’t fall apart so easily. That is the difference. Affordable condenser mics often hide their flaws by giving you highs and people assume that’s better. Those that say there’s no difference clearly do not mix, let alone professionally. That’s the difference between 720p and 4K picture. They both look good on a small phone.
A lot more smoother high end is what I noticed
Great video,and reeeally great setup! Before i organized my setup,- i was thinking : should i buy for my microphones just one good expensive preamp ( and i already had one ),or would it be smarter to buy the chain from different components.. One of the reasons,why i have chosen the second option was very simple: if one expensive preamp will stop working one day - the whole unit is useless. But in the chain of few different components every part can be replaced. My gear is far from the word " expensive ",but the sound is fantastic: my mic goes into the valve preamp, then - into FMR Audio Really Nice Compressor (great and affordable unit! ), then- into the mixing desk Studiomaster ( made in 70´s with british EQ on board ) ,-then-into my interface. The sound is just great. This is my story. Thank you for great video ! Once again: great setup!
Yup, the Neve is pretty cool. Even using the plug-in versions helps.
Definitely not an $8k sound difference but I would still buy this setup since I run a studio. Clients will pay more because perception is key.
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Hey u helped me 3yrs ago choose a at2020 I’m ready for my final mic forever wa87 r2 or take the leap with u87
Whats the diff between Neve1073 & Warm audio 73?
My current setup.:
- Nuemann TLM103
- Apollo X6
- Warm Audio Wa76EQ
- Warm Audio Wa2a
- Warm Audio Wa76
- SSL Fusion
- Heritage Audio Successor
I’m thinking about replacing all the Warm Audios with the real Gears, is that even necessary?
@@Covstam big difference. The neve is the real thing while the warm is the imitation.
@@djonlyvibe Yes to take it to the next level.
can you make a video how to set up or connect all those. and how to process recording using outboard gears thank you
Lovely setup. I personally prefer the look and sound of the Telefunken TF51 to the Neumann U87 for my voice, but they're both incredible microphones! Happy you've got your dream setup.
Though I should say that you should've done a blind test, IMO. Of course the majority of people are going to say that the more expensive setup sounds better when they know they're listening to it.
AMS NEVE 1073 DPA and 1073 SPX ，how to choose？Thx
That Neve with the Neumann is so silky with great presence!
Wow, no harshness at all in the his. It sounds very good, I have to admit...
can you explain why you don't use the uad plugins in your apollo interface and spend so much money on hardware? The UAD plugins sounds also great and work in real time or not?
I absolutely LOVE the 1073. I was using the Neve 88RS channel strip, but when I started playing with the eq on the 1073 I just fell in love with the silky smoothness/edge balance that I was able to achieve.
Love the set up bro. Good job
@Edward_Smith Thanks bro will do !!
@Edward_Smith Would love to grab a hold on the Neumann U87
Honestly that cheap set up sounded 100x better in my opinion.!- both were good tho
when come to mix and mastering you will notice the huge different in vocal track, the harmonics and frequency that onboard preamp is game changing
Facts I love hardware gear.
I could hear only a very slight tonal difference through my MX50x's and perhaps less noise but I can't say it's a "Huge" Difference. The gear looks amazing though :) I myself just run a Schoeps CMC5U Mk4 Capsule into a Grace Audio M101 then to a Apogee Duet 3 (line in ). Crisp, Clean and free of any coloration which I can add later if needed.
That’s an interesting set up. Do you have any voice samples we can listen to
@@shingAMarie spoken word or acapella?
@@gabrielthesingingpilot spoken word. Specifically with the schoeps M K4 capsule and Grace audio preamp I would love to hear that.
@@shingAMarie ua-cam.com/video/L4iconuloy8/v-deo.html
The "Dream Chain" is smoother, I have to admit, less harsh, and warmer. The Neumann mics are incredible.
For me it’s the performance that makes your music sounds good. Mastering engrs mix songs that was recorded almost a perfect take.
I wanted the u87 for ten years and in 2021 I finally got it and the super expensive shock mount (covid relief money FTW). I agree it’s a surreal feeling. I have the mogami cord too, so those are the best xlr? I always keep my u87 in its nice wood box. Do you ever leave yours out? lol cheers
Seems like I have more studying to do. This opened my eyes to what true quality recording has to be like. Thanks Ed.
Had 1073SPX chained with U87 and honestly after a year of tries I sold the 1073 and on the way to sell the U87. Thinking of getting back the TLM102 or AKG 414 chained with Avalon 737
Very nice. Yes, the hardware sounded richer... darn it. Even on my cheap head phones.
Amazing! It's awesome how the vocal chain sounds a lot more balanced and smooth. Great job!
Thanks for watching!!
Smart man!- I evolved the same way as wel all do, but once you get the REAL stuff- it's day and night and you no longer fight with mixing any vocal!-sounds like a record.
These days you are making top of the line videos for studio gear lovers.
The better gear captures the inconsistency in vocals. You need and should hold a vocal mic and push the Neumann further way an arms length away. Not only does it work it actually is better using a vocal mic that is meant for vocals. I used the Blue Encore 100 on Linkin Park vocals paired with a Blue Bluebird. I ran the bluebird into excessive effects like a lexicon mx200. But better yet an aux mixer will give you complete control over the effects wet and dry giving a multiple view of the chain. You can hear more if it’s wet and dry. So that’s how the lexicon was used. Dual mono into an aux channel. One channel had reverb the other two compressors. The vocal mic had the compressors the big mic had one reverb. It works. It didn’t cost a lot to write Linkin park music. I even used Waves Audio plugins.
So refreshing to hear a South African pushing out content in a familiar accent.
Do you mix at all and if so, where are you based? Maybe I can swing some work your way.
Looks like a great set up, Sometimes gear makes all the difference to the end result. I am a voiceover artist and my chain is the Cad e100sx mic, Mogami Cables, A warm audio mic preamp, and an Audient interface, not as advanced and great as yours, but for a voiceover it is great.
And sometimes, gear makes little or no difference at all.
the buget for the win it was so crisp however the the new setup was more in your face and warm
how much low frequencies are you cutting? in fact it woukd had been great if you could share the settings for the Neve preamp.
You convinced me to get the tlm 101 a while back I bought it then retured it then got a u87 but now I'm going to get a 1073 for shure great video as all ways
Only thing i question is the compressor but he’s got the right idea 💡 i would substitute with a empirical labs distressor instead
Here, where I am currently listening to the video through a conventional stereo system with ceiling speakers, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference with my eyes closed. I need to listen to it somewhere else again, but I personally suspect the following!
Extremely expensive microphones are not better than good microphones costing around 100-200 euros.
Additionally, the following must be said. It would also be interesting to have a recording of the same signal with the same microphone. Once recorded via the expensive analog hardware and once through the inexpensive interface which is then enhanced with analog plugin emulations.
The wave files would be cool as downloads here, since UA-cam compresses the audio signal, right?
I'm jealous! Sounds great!
You could build a budget version of this chain quite cheaply actually. Grab a Wa-87 for the mic, alctron alctron mp73 pre, for the comp go with either a used wa-2a, new klark 2a-kt, or pick up a used art vla, with the attack and release both set to slow it does a pretty good la2a.
About $800-1000 all in.
Your voice sounds perfect with every gear. Its all about voice, not about gear
I really enjoy and feel happy, watching people having expensive gear at their simple apartments in civilized countries, without the fear of getting constantly robbed
It miss a pultec style eq in the chain. Boosting extremes of the spectrum, especially if you place the microphone at random
If you have a hexacore Apollo, you could go with DSP LA-2 + something like Century Tube CS. Is it really necessary to have a hardware stack? Seems like overkill.
Can you make a video of how you routed all the gear to the Apollo x6 and then into Pro Tools (I/O routing situation)
The analog much smoother and mix ready then the old chain
I have an Apollo x6 and a Steinberg AXR4U. I like UAD but the AXR4 sounds so good, it became my main interface. Try it guys, you will think me later.
Great choice of gear for sure but, in all honesty, the biggest difference in the vocal chain is the microphone. Warm’s version of the U87 is a great copy and will sound great even through your existing Focusrite. Having great quality comps and EQ definitely helps on the front end as well as a clean interface but, it all starts with the microphone and a good, clean recording.
Hi I´ve compared wa87 to an original u87 and theres a huge difference
love your voice!
I just listened on my Yamaha 5 headphones big difference in sound quality the 599 setup is good but the 8000 dollar setup is next level and that's the goal when it comes to home studios getting the best quality sound for you music without going to a high end recording studio.
Some in a bad way audible compression goes on in the cheaper chain, but otherwise, listening on Focal nearfield monitors in my treated room, I don’t hear any kind of difference that justifies the thousands of dollars price difference. I wonder how it would sound, if you replace the WA LA2A and the Neve 1073 with the plugins you got along with the UA interface?!
I think a comparison between your new vocal chain with the UAD Plugin would be cool.
Hey can you please make a video of how you connected all them together
That mic is PERFECTION
Can’t believe the negative comments,you can go to the store in a Ford escort,or you can go in style,Absolutely, wonderful presentation Ed your vocals sound AWESOME
Hello i have a microphone SC1 Standard UAD and Apollo Sol, What else do you recommend with it? Please Thanks !
I'm curious: why wouldn't you just use the Neve/LA2A that comes with Apollo?
Very nice, but Im not a fan of the warm. Audioscape would have been a significant step up for around the same $$; nice though!
came for the vocal chain, subbed for the singing lmao!! the white Roy Woods
wondering why you did not or if you did look into the Neve Shelford channel strip.