3 BIG Myths About Forge Welding
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- Опубліковано 22 лют 2019
- I address three myths about forge welding. By addressing these issues, you can become better at forge welding by hand.
How to remove clinkers from firepot (at 4:50 seconds) • Coal Forge Fire Shutdo...
It is possible to forge weld without flux. You can forge weld mild steel via forge welding without borax. When I do forge welding with borax, I use 20 mule team borax.
Having a coal clinker in your fire will not stop you from being able to forge weld.
Forge welding is not magical. It is a compilation of the environment.
If you would like to learn the forge welding basics and see the practical application for different types of fire welding tutorials, check out our forge welding techniques playlist here: • Forge Welding Techniques
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One of the reasons you are oxidizing and burning is because the clinker does not consume oxygen and results in an oxidizing fire. Clinker also doesn't contribute the heat but instead robs heat from your fire. That requires you to turn up the air blast which also contributes to oxidizing as opposed to being able to maintain a neutral or reducing fire. Kind of like turning the shielding gas off on your mig welder.
Roy does it on John's channel too! 2 great minds working together....
It is my understanding that the flux also contributes to the oxygen barrier and keeps scale from forming thus allowing the weld to happen easier in an slightly oxidizing Fire. Is this true?
Another one as far as I know is a tall fire will gobble up the oxygen too.
Good to see you here Roy ;)
@Apentogo dude knows his stuff!
Crazy clincker!
Yup I'll vote for a lesson plan on forge welding via a propane forge and the difference between the solid fuel and gas.
Blessed days sirSir, Crawford out
Sometimes the forge welding Pixies take the day off. 🤣🔥
LOL yep😂🔨🔥
Roy this makes a lot of sense. Am always putting on to much flux, will have to watch that one. Also you touched on a very interesting point about oxygen reduction. Thanks again my friend for sharing my video. Meant a lot to me.
Excellent video mate, I have certainly heard all of those excuses (used a few of them myself haha) it's great to see the proof for yourself that it is doable
Roy you’re taking the magic out of blacksmithing, which is a good thing. The way you have explained the welding process has taken away many of my excuses for failure and clearly shows that when the process is done right the weld will be good. Thanks
I love that little finger pointer.
I have a bad habit of being an "overachiever" and believe that '... if a little is good, then a lot is better!' and want to drench the piece in flux.
Thanks for reminding me that I'm not making the weld better, I'm just wasting my flux. Great video as usual, Roy.
Also, Nice to see your cousin Thing Adams again. I haven't seen him in a while! LOL 👍
Question: in this video you spoke about the issues concerning 'clinker', which is typically in coal forges.
Question: is there any such issues I need to watch for when using a Charcoal forge over a coal forge?
Great question! In charcoal Forge you do not have to worry about clinkers but the wood ash itself but for the most part it is considered a much cleaner fire to weld in. If you have a lot of Ash that you have not cleared near the tuire it can be blown up quite easily and stick all over your piece of Steel. Hope this helps thank you so much Corey for taking the time to watch God bless you!
@@coreyshier7526 my biggest issue with charcoal was being constantly covered in ash and little burns from the embers that pop out of the fire.
This was extremely informative. Thank you for sharing your knowledge here.
I thought you always needed a clean fire thanks for discrediting that myth!
You are saying that me ordering my wizard hat is un necessary? Well I guess that I have to get a hotter fire.
Good video as always
Thanks
Great video Roy i'm going out to the forge right now and practice forge welding thanks again and God bless
your videos are underappreciated, very informative. Hopefully Ill get my first forge weld to stick soon!
Well done - THANKS! Saved me a bunch of wasted time and effort.
Thanks for putting some more forge welding vids up. I’m a big fan of it
You're very welcome! And thank you for taking the time to watch them God bless you :-)
Wow. Learning something new every day. Don't fear the clinker
Very nice to share this, I really know I am getting heeled better. I will try this welding some day! .but I enjoy being blessed God bless you buddy
This addresses what I'm working on right now, thanks for posting this!
I'm glad this video helped thank you so much for taking the time to watch God bless you and good luck with your project.
@@ChristCenteredIronworks I thought I'd give you a further report. My project was welding a bit into a folded axe/hatchet. I found a lot of very small coal particles, essentially dust in my fire pot. I'm talking maybe 2" deep. Anyway, with everything cold, I cleaned the firepot out, started over, and had good success welding. I didn't exactly chant "it's not magic" over and over, but I did try to pay attention to that idea. I'm starting to get an idea of what my forge (it's hand cranked) ought to sound like when things are going right. For example, the sound changes a lot when clinker has built up. Failing to turn the clinker breaker, or trip the ash dump every-so-often will change the sound. Thanks again for posting and replying!
Been saving that clinker all week? Now do an Alec Steele and forge something out of it!
LOL nope just long days in the Forge :-) and you could probably Forge this one hahaha. Thanks Frank taking the time to watch brother God bless you!
Borax is actually not acidic, I believed the same thing a while back until I got curious and did a bit of "research" (wikipedia). Sodium tetraborate (borax) is basic. Hydrogen borate (boric acid) is a weak acid. Both are used to flux different metals. Borax + ammonium chloride (sal ammoniac- which, alone, is used for 'tinning') is used to flux iron oxide. Boric acid and denatured alcohol are used by jewelers to flux copper/brass/silver/gold in preparation for soldering/brazing. Confusing?
Both are easily obtainable via 20mule and cheap roach tablets.
Outstanding video!
Great video Roy. Managing ones air flow and knowing if you have an oxidizing fire or a reducing fire is "the magic" as far as I can tell.
That is a large part indeed :-) thank you for taking the time to watch!
i just love your pointy stick lol really need to learn to fire weld will open up new things i could make instead off just stick welding stuff.
thanks roy good video.
Thank you
Anyone ever tried to shape a clinker? While it's hot and gooey in a in a mold perhaps? Great job explaining Roy,
I wanna see Roy forging the clinker.......lol
yeah me too he made a quality iron bloom
Can you do a quick add on video on forge welding in a gas forge. Secondly, I just picked up a forge but I dont have a building yet, do I need to be inside or just shaded?
The name of my forge is Shadetreeforge, most all of my forging is done outdoors and shaded, the most important part is the shade to see the color of the metal, and it's rather obvious good weather days are the best time to work.
I don't know why, but if I'm in a bad mood nothing seems to go right in the shop, & I have yet to master Forge Welding, but I'll keep trying. Seems like I can't get enough heat with clinkers in my fire, but I have a Champion 400 Hand Crank Blower. Thanks For The Video Roy !
damn that is very interesting i always assumed flux was elemental to forge wielding gonna try it right next!
Maybe you already have this somewhere but I’d like to know if the flux is a mixture or just a straight component. Also I’d love to see a Damascus weld without using a welder to bind the different layers for forge welding. I’m searching UA-cam right now for that video. Loved your tips here today.
Dumb question (the kind I'm best at) - everyone I've seen does a very light weld on the first heat, emphasizes light quick blows, then re-heats the joint for more serious welding. Why not hammer it down hard on the first heat ?
When welding the surface of the metal is at the liquidfication state but not the entire peice.this means when you hit it with all you got the force from that blow blasts all the weldable material from the joint. Thus leaving you with a peice of non weldable steel. Hope this helps :-)
Good Tip Roy
That's not a dumb question....
The only dumb question is the one not asked. The only caveat to this is the question with the obvious answer.
Borax is is alkaline, typical ph depending on concentration is 9-12, a ph higher than 7 is alkaline and lower than 7 is acidic. 20 mule team specifically list it at 9.25 at a 3% concentration at 20 degrees Celsius.
Question. I hope you answer. I was welding up a tomahawk with a full length of high carbon in a wrapped low carbon. The weld is pretty much set and I ran out of gas. Dumb me. Can I restart the welding after the steel has become completely cold or will it cause cold shuts?
Roy, you say "wrought iron is self fluxing", what about when you are forge welding a san mai billet of a piece of high carbon steel between two pieces of wrought? Should you use flux in that case?
Would starting a chain and just going a link at a time be a good practice? Just dona scarf weld each time?
Good vid.
Is this the Rathole anvil Paul?
Afro D’Z’Yak Roy will have to answer that one. All I know is that it is a German pattern with the two horns.
Paul Fontanini no, I meant you. The guy that makes Rathole anvils is a Fontanini as well.
Yeah sorry. No I am an Aussie :) I would say a VERY distant relation.
so if I used an induction forge heated in an argon cloud would it work better in theory?
I think that's the biggest clinker I've ever seen! I keep checking for them but I can't ever find them in my gas forge...... I must be doing something right 😂 Sorry, I shouldn't joke, I'm needing to do some forging and my gas forge is out of action so I'll be using an improvised charcoal forge. Eep, I'm into new territory again
Nice rock!!
Did I understand correctly - that strong blowing or too close position of the workpiece to the air injector can categorically affect the possibility of welding?
I want that clinker lol...
Can I ask if it's better to clean your steel first with a flap sander? My limited knowlege of sticking two pieces of metal together is limited to copper tube for plumbing and wire for electronic circuit boards. I bought 2 welding blankets to fasten to frames to build a bit of a wind break around my anvil. The wind seems to be causing me a lot of grief to date. So, speed and very little flux. Got it. Here I was thinking maybe there's too many purple thingies in my magic wand. Thanks as always. Great info. Cheers.
One can never have to many purple thingys......
Any tips on forge welding thin pieces
Roy may I ask if it would be better as a complete novice ( newbi ) to start with a pure Coke Fire ?
Actually pure coke is harder for a beginner to manage and work, start with a coal fire, as the coal cokes up feed it in gradually, and as you get better with time, then try the coke, also coke requires constant air flow or it will die down and go out. coal doesn't do that.
Thanks @@shadetreeforge
In my expert opinion as a guy who isn't a black smith I would say that clinkers displacing coal might lead to a more oxidising fire. I mean the air has less burning coal to consume it it half of the mas is clinker. right?
I should have read farther. Black bear forge guy agrees. great videos both of you by the way!
I'm a Newbie... What is a clinker? Googled it and didn't see any results. Would it be like really bad scaling?
clinker is the impurities that melt out of the coal. A clinker is mostly comprised of silica (sand) when heated to forging temps it melts and forms at the bottom of the fire pot
Its all in the hands of the blacksmith gods and the clinker
It’s the finger!!!!😆
Another myth is needing a scarf to get a weld. I fire weld often with no scarf. I also believe you do need flux in a gas fire, but not always for a coke fire.
Any tips on controlling oxygen in a propane forge?
Lazy blue flames indicate a propane Rich environment as we're intense orangish yellow flames indicate a oxygenated environment. You want to try to aim directly between these two environments for best results. I will try to cover Forge welding in a gas forge in a more in-depth video at a later date. Until Then John Switzer at Black Bear Forge has covered this topic in pretty good detail and I believe it's his welding method of choice. Hope this helps you God bless you and thank you for taking the time to watch.
@@ChristCenteredIronworks You bet! One video suggestion: Maybe grab some cheap horse nippers, and show different ways to make tongs. I have some really ugly converted tong nippers, but I think there is a lot more potential there than I was able to realize.
Can stainless steel be forgewelded ?
I'm not really sure if it can be I've only ever tried it once with no success. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video God bless you
Thx man . What about a Test with different types of stainless steel?
404 stainless will rust so,...
Guess what guys The Penny just dropped with me...Roy is so right about Oxygen burning the steel, thats why an Oxy / Propane cutting torch Dumpes oxygen onto the steel to cut it
That's one big clinker
I have only tried to forge weld once but I just had a lot of scale
Me too, Tom! Apparently I used too much flux! Good thing to know!
Welding more about the knowledge rather than muscle memory like forging tapers.
didn't work for me at all, i guess i had too small pieces i tried to welt..
pretty sure you don't want to go sniffing borax...
i can verify that you don't need to use flux for forgewelding because japanese blacksmithts don't use it. Look into the way japanese swordsmiths do it.
Bullocks putting it mildly
Do better
@@ChristCenteredIronworks Look at Cleft Weld,Double Cleft Weld etc.41 years klinkerfree experience. Kind regards Blacksmith Filip Ponseele
On Joey Van Der Steeg channel.Enjoy