M398 SUPER STEEL? DID FOX KNIVES DO IT ANY JUSTICE
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- Опубліковано 14 гру 2022
- FOX KNIVES CHILLIN F8 IS AN ITALIAN MADE KNIFE IN M398 STEEL, HOW DID FOX DO ON THE HEATREATMENT ON THE M398 STEEL? AND HOW DID THEY DO ON THE KNIFE ITSELF. THE FOX CHILLIN F8 COMES IN MULTIPLE DIFFERENT VERSIONS.
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It looks like a great knife for the Purpose you mentioned and quality along with fit and finish seems fine. But until people stop buying knives with sub optimal heat treats there is no incentive for production companies to change their model of business. Look at what happened with Magnacut and how crappy it was at first. A big enough pushback from consumers made them give it the heat treat it deserved and now we see most production companies doing it correctly or people don't buy them. Thanks for the great vid Jerad and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
I have a custom knife from Assassin's Knives with m398 blade at 64hrc and ground to 0.007-0.008. For under $500 it's a bargain. It has bronze dark matter scales and timascus carbon fiber(its marbled CF with bronze, blue and purple inlays and looks like timascus and CF had a baby) bolsters and a 3D milled timascus clip. Great action, very comfortable in hand and it cuts like a laser.
Cool video thanks.
Almost kukri style, love it 😘👍
Was onsale when i got it, after the price hike in knives was like 50/60 off. But the sale vanished the next day. Got the vosteed nightshade from their email in Elmax and blade cutout! Then saw this onsale finally. First 2 knife buy in my half hour lunch!
It seems to me after seeing these graphs and stuff that 154cm/S30V/S45VN/Elmax/Vanax type steels should be sought out for premium production models since most makers can hit the HRC for optimal purposes easier than steels like M390/398. Spyderco really seems to be the exception. They seem to strive for great Heat treat and at least you know that your paying for optional Steel.
Facts !
SPYDERCO ALSO HAS MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE WITH GRINDING AND MACHINING THEM
@@NeevesKnives Agreed, I was able to grab the last Spydy Mule Team in m398. It’s been great so far.
@jeffmyers9837 yeah I almost grabbed one myself, but funds weren't so hot with the Holidays and all so hopefully I'm able to because I'd like to test it
Elmax isn't any easier than m390 to heat treat. Vanax is a pain to heat treat and grind. The other steels you mentioned are easier to heat treat.
Had a few knives that slipped out of the cuts and the Baluga and clip point 20.5 I have both slip out extremely easy.
The profile is a pretty good copy of the spyderco large lum with some heft to it . I like the contour of the scales over the flattish Lum . The lum is my favorite daily , but I want to try this.
The profile reminds me of the vosteed nightshade a little bit. Also reminds me of how badly I want a bestech Fairchild
I have the Micarta version of this knife in M398 and I love it so much. Perfect size, super functional blade shape, vox design, I could go on and on. I have had it for about 2 months and It hasn't left my pocket since. I have been cutting thin plastics (cellophane) and opening boxes at work. Everything is perfect except I have noticed some chipping on the blade and I can't understand why... wondering if the N690 would be a better option. Does anyone have any experience with the M398 vs N690 version?
Would love to see you do an update once you have tested the steel for a fair amount. It should still have better edge retention than most of the M390-20CV we see from most companies (below 62hrc).
Outpost76 did m398 cut test from twosun at like 59. Tom Hosang Outdoors did one on Reate m398 at 60rc.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Yeah I know.
Would it be better to go with one of the cheaper versions in G10 or Aluminium and N690 blade steel (HRC 58-60)?
In my opinion toughness is as important as a hard edge. A knife can be used well for scraping for example and without a plenty amount of toughness, the nice and smooth edge will quickly turn into a kind of saw.
Then dont use m398. Simple as that.
Looks like Vosteed nightshade. Lol choil looks like it ends on the plunge. Does the stop pin hit right on the choil btw?
Hogue deka gen2 clip point has the best sharpening choil on a pocket knife I have ever seen (the plunge grind ends BEHIND the handle scales…) and now the choils on everything else slightly bother me. I almost wish I never bought it 😂
That knife was so cool. They should do something similar to Benchmade re-releasing the Bailout and just make more at higher hardness and mark them with a laser engraving that somehow indicates the improved ones
THAT WOULD BE AMAZING IF SO, I SHOULD REACH OUT AND SEE HOW WELL THEY TAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM
Have you seen the testing of m398 by Luong La here on UA-cam? Actually a pretty tough steel....m390 is also. Very low angle edges at high HRC doing chopping on hard woods. The thing with those ratings is no production or custom knife matches the heat treats on knifesteelnerds samples. Both CPM 154 and m390 used to have double the toughness rating in earlier articles on there though. (As should be... everybody knows CPM154 is tougher than the others next to it on chart and m390 is tougher than S30V...not a question 🤷
Is it possible to take a blade after you have purchased it and send it off to be re-hardened?
Technically yes but only a handful of professionals can do it successfully and there's a large chance the blade warps or changes in size which will cause major issues especially in a folder.
Reminiscent of the vorsteed nightshade
I had just ordered mine (micarta, M398, $160) earlier in the same day Brian posted his test results. I was mildly disappointed with the HRC results but I really liked the knife so I wasn’t terribly worried. Once I got the knife and got past the initial flipping issues I seem to have with every knife I’ve bought, I’m pretty happy with mine and it has been featured heavily in my current daily carry rotation.
Nice
Good overview, thank you. Design seems similar to a vosteed and a locanaco you liked. I'm slowly learning about the concept of heat treats from the info you been sharing on italians, thanks bro.
I have heard of a Tool steel that is not being used on pocket knives or on fixed blade knives. The Tool Steel is Called D3 Tool Steel. It is an upgrade to D2 Tool Steel.
Just use xhp or cpm-d2. One custom maker, Farid Mehr uses d3 steel.
There's D3 and even D6. They're just D2 but with more carbon. Nothing really special and that's why very few makers use them.
Mines 16-18 thousandths behind the edge. I didn't really buy it for the steel I bought it because Jesper Voxanes makes beautiful knives 😍
👋 looks like a super sharp knife no doubt
Just picked one up for $130
I like this variation the best. Love Vox designs.
I'm glad this is finally being talked about. I've got a Herman in m398 and have asked opinions and haven't got any.
How did Herman heat treat it? That would be the question. If it was low or poor microstructure it would not be worth the really high prices he charges.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I'm not sure. I can't read the writing. It's either 61 or 67...maybe 64. The second number looks weird. I just need a better sharpening system to get it sharpened better. I've just never heard much info on m398.
Have you finish the test of this knife?? I wonder what it does in terms of edge retention for this "soft" M398!
It's soft yes, very
@@NeevesKnives Have you sharpened it?? I really hesitate on it... I really dont know how soft M398 really performs ...
@@4d4mko no but i didnt have to as one was hrc tested in the community at aroung 60 hrc i believe and good m389 is like 65, im sure it will sharpen up just fine, the burr might give you trouble but it also might not, i wouldnt recommend going over like 1000 grit i personally would stop at 600 grit just because i dont think it willl hold on to a finer edge very well as far as bite goes, but i have not done it myself yet so its all just imo
@@NeevesKnives Thank you very much for your reply!!! :)
Why do a supersteel and run it sub-optimally? PROFIT.
They are always pushing for profit, which they are supposed to which is good but that doesn't mean cut some costs to make it sub optimal, if they must charge a few more $
please do an update video on this knife! i held back because of the knife steel but i'm interested to know your thoughts after you've had some time with it!
How does this compare to the Vosteed Nightshade ?
They are very different but also have some similarities, this has more premium materials and is more palm filling
@@NeevesKnives
Thanks man !
Appreciated !
At least it hit its advertised HRC (60-62HRC), which is better than being way below advertised. Some of them are hopefully in the 62hrc range. I think they would be scared to push M398 much harder than 62-63hrc in a production capacity, due to its low toughness. I know Spyderco also are doing some stuff with M398 and will be interesting to see what they do with it. Personally, I would rather see production companies optimize their process for M390 so it reaches the 62-63hrc range. But it's always interesting and welcomed to see new steel used and what the different companies will do with it.
I wanted one of these but after seeing hardness and how thick the geometry is, I’ve lost interest. I’m sure it’s for the fidgeters but they’re a tool for me and any of us. Amazing price but useless for me.
Another way to answer if a particular knife is good or bad regarding heat treatment and resulting HRC, is using a price to value determination. Is the resulting knife blade going to provide the performance and value for the price you will have to pay. If the price is too high for a steel that is not "ripe", even a dramatically reduced price will not save it. We are willing to pay for a steel done right with proof that it is so.
Who is doing all this cutting? Maybe open a box now and again. 😮
Then why use m398 at all then? Also why use a supersteel and treat it poorly and charge a lot? To trick buyers into buying something thats not worth its costs.
I really like it but the handle looks slick. 😐
A fan of fox knives and definitely great materials but it’s droopyiness just makes me 🤭
It would be funny if you added more bad aids to your fingers in the following videos. Thanks for the review!
Nice. But when I see this I can’t help but think I prefer the Vosteed Nightshade in m390 and copper/micarta - that was a sweet deal (while they lasted)
Lol put the speed on .25x and listen to your voice I’m fkn dead
I do really really really like this design.
Really love this one! I hope it’s good because I’d love to get it. I did notice that they said 60-61 HRC on the specs. At least it’s working that, be nice to get it up too 63.
Thanks, I almost bought that. Bleh.
It's in the range it's advertised at directly from Fox site: "Hardness: HRC 60-62". So it's not like they are selling you on something they did not promise. Should still have better edge retention than most M390/20CV we see. If you like the knife try it in a store or something.
@@Cid_1 I realize that. But, if I'm going to try m398, I'll find it with a bit higher hrc. To get a better experience. I like the design, but it's not a "must have".
Shame they botched the heat treat.
How did they "botch" the heat treat? The advertised spec is 60-62hrc. Which they hit.
@@Cid_1 cause its not worth the cost at that rc.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Well. We haven't seen that many companies use it yet. Bohlers recommended hardness seem to be around the 62HRC range in their document (compared to M390) at 58HRC). I'm sure we will see more companies experiment with different hardness's in the future. And I would also see production companies strive to hit M390 at 62-63HRC so we get the benefit of the "toughness" (compared to M398). Since most companies run their M390/20CV between 58-61HRC (except like 3 companies). But will be interesting to see what HT protocols companies come up with for M398 in the future.
@@tacticalcenter8658 The cost is fairly reasonable below $200 in full Ti, and cheaper than most M390/20CV knives we see in this size and materials
@@Cid_1 Reate does 60-61rc and they get 350-400ft ... They shared their protocol on solo designer's ig (he's Reates in house designer). They didn't share specific's like the ramp rates or what bar pressure they use, but it can be done well at lower rc if they get the right austenitizing temps, soak times and proper quenching methods, Ln2, 2 temper's at the proper temp. Not to mention avoiding laser cutting the blades per Bohler's specification's. Peter's has to get 62rc to compete with Reates 60-61rc. Spyderco at 61 is slightly below Reate. At 62rc Spyderco is superior (Reate only go up to 61rc). 60rc Spyderco is better than most poor performance m390 but it doesn't break the 300ft cut mark at all like m390 should. Microstructure matters a lot depending on how its protocol is done in the ht. Bestech 61 rc can't beat even Spyderco at 60rc.
It’s always hilarious when I see the knife UA-camrs with bandaids all over their hands
Reminds me so much of the vosteed nightshade
Oh the chinese lum
ITS ITALIAN
@@NeevesKnives or DANISH?! 😉
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...........................You paid $200 for a knife. Dude a knife is nothing more than a tool like a shovel, a hammer, or a screw driver. At that price you'd never use it because it might get scratched.
Your in the wrong place !