@14:22 yeah... going all capital, especially vanilla ones with vanilla battle size, against remnants is pure masochism. You need destroyers and frigates to divert some attention out of your capital ships
That's what i found with this update too, i run max 3 bs, and around 4 cruisers, and i did not struggle nearly as much as our boy Uran did. And i'm not some super awesome megagamer either.
@@Uran92 The problem is if you have two capitals then a faster enemy (High tech or Rem) can just use one your capitals as a wall against the other, letting them essentially make any capital other then the one they are focusing on effectively not in the fight at all.
@@Uran92 super late to the party, but running mixed fleets are honestly the best way to go. A couple of capital ships to act as anchors and tanks, a few cruisers to soak damage and clear fighters/missiles as well as apply shield pressure, and a few frigates to capture points and harass so the enemy can't focus solely on a capital ship or cruiser. I also tend to run more carriers in my fleets mostly the capital class. I like the vids though.
I always go one Capital, four fast Cruisers like Fury or Aurora with destroyers, and thats it, the capital brings heavy power and soak damage and the Cruisers with destroyers can hunt all of the enemy ships quite fast
This is the same way I felt about the game when i replayed it. It's a constant struggle and they have really overturned it just for people that constantly play the game. A new player has no chance for a very long time. In earlier versions colony was a place of respite and your base of operations to explore but now starting a colony is an extreme endgame challenge. I think they should balance fun and challenge. A place to chill like your colony is not bad if the rest of the sector is challenging but now everything is a challenge.
@@mykhailokeryta120 yes, but then you will make very little money and will not be able to maintain a respectable fleet as the cost of supplies, fuel and crew is not small. Colonies take time to ramp up and get profitable, I think all I am saying is that colonies are an extreme drain at the moment when you start. You have to scout a good star system, get good colony items and pour in millions. What do you get in return? Not very much for a long time.
@@daruthebeastTruly an easy game when enemies are allowed to deploy more ships than you, i really feel the balance when those hegemony fleets start spamming onslaughts 🔥
When you're able to start a colony you probably have a few cruisers already, so pirates are easily fended off. The league wont bother you too soon so thats fine, if you dont use much ai cores the hegs also wont bother you. So, practically growing a colony is harsh, but chilling with low pop colonies are fine, especially on the fringe
The problem I think is the capital spam. Capitals have massive amounts of damage potential, but at the cost of maneuverability and flexibility. A capital ship alone or even in pairs are sitting ducks to faster opponents that can flutter in and out of their weapon range and arcs, and abuse their slower turning. Escorts help with this. Frigates are some of the most flexible craft in the game, able to quickly adapt and change objects and strategies to fit the ever changing situations on the battlefield. The AI also does far better with frigates then capital ships. Destroyers are interesting as most of them are only really for utility, but cruisers are where you go if you want the firepower of a capital, but the flexibility and mobility of a frigate. General rule of thumb is you should only really have one capital ship as the anchor of your fleet, something big and heavy to really set where the battle line is, and your fighter force should be cruisers and frigates, with destroyers as supports the provide unique tricks that they cruisers and frigates can play off of to get an advantage.
I would also like to point out the Escort Package hullmod, ships within 1000su of a larger friendly ship gain 10% top speed, 25% manoeuvrability AND 20% energy/ballistic weapon range. S-mod it and the ship takes 10% less shield damage. Thats some great bonuses but if its a Destroyer escorting a Capital class ship the Destroyer gets all those bonuses 2x, massive difference in performance. The game has a few bonuses for smaller ships to dissuade the Capital-spam fleets and Escort Package is one of them.
@@TheHuffur That is brilliant! I never thought of that. Destroyers have always been my specialist class I endlessly need to replace do to their frailty. To slow to hunt frigates even when overridden, Not enough fire power or durability to hunt cruisers. I see now that they do fit the perfect escort role, being more then fast enough to keep up with cruisers and capitals while having weapons with enough reach and punch to threaten multiple frigates as long as the frigates have to come to them. Perfect engine guards. And specific classes you recommend for certain roles?
Monitor class is excellent at soaking up damage and taking the pressure off of your larger ships. Steady captain with built in extended shields and hardened shields and the thing will never die. It can tank a navy
@@garethsentry Yah Monitor is busted. If you have the mod that gives the Pathers IED ships you can send it in before sending anything else in and trick them into blowing up their IEDs early and make them do it while wiping out their entire fleet in the process
Odyssey is absolutely not a AI ship. They can't keep the ship broadsiding and they are REALLY agressive with the Plasma Burn. As a flagship, 10/10, it is the only capital I fly when I get it.
Generally, when you keep the weapons to one side and the otherside as mostly point defence ive not seen the ai struggle too much with broadsiding. But yeh ai in capital ships with burn drives seems suicidal at times
@@domino6918 There is another point where the Odyssey is particularly awful for the AI. It cannot position for full firepower. It has 2 large on one side, and 1 large on the other. The player can easily go 2 plasma/1 MIRV and mass PD. Do that for AI and it points forward as it wants to. If you go 2 weapons and the offside as a paladin PD, 1 large will not work since the AI will still point forward. I just about gave up on Broadsiders and Flankers for the AI, and the Odyssey is both. It is really powerful on the side, crushing escorts and then flanking the main battle line after it is engaged. The AI forms the main battle line with it unless you babysit it, and it still does not broadside and plasma burns in instead of using it for retreats/pursuits. It is just an awful AI ship overall. Just give them Onslaughts/Paragons and be a Flanker with the Odyssey is what works really well for me.
This is why the killer queen phase ship is still my favourite to pilot manually. Having a fast (and phase) ship to assassinate and divert attention from your flags is something even these suckers can't deal with. Reaper cannons and phase bombs ftw
Executer is literally the best ship, i play with four of them and they stand in a line and wreck whole fleets. Hardened shields, extended shields, solar shielding and integrated targetting.
You should add in a four pack of tanky frigates to your fleet. Personally, my favorite is the Emperor's Shield from the Xhan faction mod pack, but I know there are some tanky vanilla frigates with that damper ability. Those will help take the total focus off your capitals and even allow them time to back off and recover. One less capital ship for three or four tanky frigate escorting your other capitals will be much stronger fleet overall. I like to put two escorts on the capital ship that tends to get into trouble most often. With officers focused on defensive skills, they will last a very long time. (If you have extra officers for them.)
The good old spam of capital fortresses is kind of over. The closest you might be able to do is some capitals with long range capable escorts that can fully disable or defend against flanking and or missiles and fighters. The updates of the ship and officer AI, the ship and armanent updates have made the game really challenging the last 2 years...
Nice episode! Even though Odyssey is my favorite, as an AI ship it deserves all the hate it gets lol. Everything that makes it special are all things that the AI isn't capable of handling. Probably by design since that would make the AI smarter and more skilful than most gamers playing the game lol. If you want to even begin to fly an Odyssey right you need to turn off 'Turn Ship To Cursor', and ALWAYS save your burn for dodging and escaping. And that's just the beginning. The Odyssey is only as strong as you are skillful. But if you can match its skill ceilling, it's worth way way more than it costs to use.
Uran: "I know it (Odyssey) is a strong ship, and everybody likes it. But for some reason it always dies on me, when AI is flying it" Me, having the same issue with EVERY ship in the game: "Uhh.... Yeah..."
I think I read somewhere that certain fights scale to the time of the game. Back when I first started playing if you didn't attack the shielded planet early game it would be near impossible to beat.
The only ships I've found that the AI can use with any efficiency are carriers once they reach a critical mass. 1-2 carriers are hardly worth anything while 1 Astral + 8 herons with proper wing can destroy pretty much any fleet 1v1 with no casualties. This makes the carrier perks very weak since most of your wings will get destroyed by PD with low numbers (making the perk useless) and with high numbers the perks give negligible bonuses.
Please tell me the bottom left stuff is unmodded. Im abt to go there w/o knowing whats there and seeing the first 30 seconds of this video got me hyped
Easiest way to deal with doritos i v seen so far was a pack of Paragons with autopulse lasors and expanded magazines. It works if there are 2 doritos. For 3... its hard...
The builds I saw in this video are not what I would call "good" and no smaller combat ships for battles that need them. Destroyers with Escort Package in a few types of battles are worth their weight in gold.
The Odyssey is a better "broadside" ship than Conquest, it is mobile, has great shield strength and hangars. Only thing Conquest had going for it is the hurricane mirv and it got nerfed so it is trash. Waste of DP points I would literally rather take any other capital ship, yes even the the pirate Atlas, because at least that one has accelerated ammo feeder.
Going all capital, especially in vanilla, is an extreme form of self hate. This game's ai is really bad and unless you micro every ship in your fleet every 30 milliseconds with an Operations Center and every command point related perk its best to have only one capital as a fleet anchor (i don't even have that because heavier cruisers are better than capitals in every way, even without considering dp)
When you gaze long into an abyss, Uran winks back at you ;)
@14:22 yeah... going all capital, especially vanilla ones with vanilla battle size, against remnants is pure masochism. You need destroyers and frigates to divert some attention out of your capital ships
That's what i found with this update too, i run max 3 bs, and around 4 cruisers, and i did not struggle nearly as much as our boy Uran did. And i'm not some super awesome megagamer either.
Hmm will have to look into more cruiser focused fleets
@@Uran92 The problem is if you have two capitals then a faster enemy (High tech or Rem) can just use one your capitals as a wall against the other, letting them essentially make any capital other then the one they are focusing on effectively not in the fight at all.
@@Uran92 super late to the party, but running mixed fleets are honestly the best way to go. A couple of capital ships to act as anchors and tanks, a few cruisers to soak damage and clear fighters/missiles as well as apply shield pressure, and a few frigates to capture points and harass so the enemy can't focus solely on a capital ship or cruiser. I also tend to run more carriers in my fleets mostly the capital class.
I like the vids though.
I always go one Capital, four fast Cruisers like Fury or Aurora with destroyers, and thats it, the capital brings heavy power and soak damage and the Cruisers with destroyers can hunt all of the enemy ships quite fast
This is the same way I felt about the game when i replayed it. It's a constant struggle and they have really overturned it just for people that constantly play the game. A new player has no chance for a very long time. In earlier versions colony was a place of respite and your base of operations to explore but now starting a colony is an extreme endgame challenge. I think they should balance fun and challenge. A place to chill like your colony is not bad if the rest of the sector is challenging but now everything is a challenge.
If you keep your colony small crisis is not an issue. Downscaling the colony is always an option and it is hinted in the game.
@@mykhailokeryta120 yes, but then you will make very little money and will not be able to maintain a respectable fleet as the cost of supplies, fuel and crew is not small. Colonies take time to ramp up and get profitable, I think all I am saying is that colonies are an extreme drain at the moment when you start. You have to scout a good star system, get good colony items and pour in millions. What do you get in return? Not very much for a long time.
I don't understand your issues... if you aren't playing hardcore, it's generally a really easy game
@@daruthebeastTruly an easy game when enemies are allowed to deploy more ships than you, i really feel the balance when those hegemony fleets start spamming onslaughts 🔥
When you're able to start a colony you probably have a few cruisers already, so pirates are easily fended off. The league wont bother you too soon so thats fine, if you dont use much ai cores the hegs also wont bother you.
So, practically growing a colony is harsh, but chilling with low pop colonies are fine, especially on the fringe
The problem I think is the capital spam. Capitals have massive amounts of damage potential, but at the cost of maneuverability and flexibility. A capital ship alone or even in pairs are sitting ducks to faster opponents that can flutter in and out of their weapon range and arcs, and abuse their slower turning. Escorts help with this. Frigates are some of the most flexible craft in the game, able to quickly adapt and change objects and strategies to fit the ever changing situations on the battlefield. The AI also does far better with frigates then capital ships. Destroyers are interesting as most of them are only really for utility, but cruisers are where you go if you want the firepower of a capital, but the flexibility and mobility of a frigate. General rule of thumb is you should only really have one capital ship as the anchor of your fleet, something big and heavy to really set where the battle line is, and your fighter force should be cruisers and frigates, with destroyers as supports the provide unique tricks that they cruisers and frigates can play off of to get an advantage.
I would also like to point out the Escort Package hullmod, ships within 1000su of a larger friendly ship gain 10% top speed, 25% manoeuvrability AND 20% energy/ballistic weapon range. S-mod it and the ship takes 10% less shield damage. Thats some great bonuses but if its a Destroyer escorting a Capital class ship the Destroyer gets all those bonuses 2x, massive difference in performance.
The game has a few bonuses for smaller ships to dissuade the Capital-spam fleets and Escort Package is one of them.
@@TheHuffur That is brilliant! I never thought of that. Destroyers have always been my specialist class I endlessly need to replace do to their frailty. To slow to hunt frigates even when overridden, Not enough fire power or durability to hunt cruisers. I see now that they do fit the perfect escort role, being more then fast enough to keep up with cruisers and capitals while having weapons with enough reach and punch to threaten multiple frigates as long as the frigates have to come to them. Perfect engine guards. And specific classes you recommend for certain roles?
Monitor class is excellent at soaking up damage and taking the pressure off of your larger ships. Steady captain with built in extended shields and hardened shields and the thing will never die. It can tank a navy
@@garethsentry Yah Monitor is busted. If you have the mod that gives the Pathers IED ships you can send it in before sending anything else in and trick them into blowing up their IEDs early and make them do it while wiping out their entire fleet in the process
Monitors (damage sponge), Omens, and Hyperons are such good escort ships for capitals
Poor, Uran, such a sweet boy until the greater evil took a hold of his damned soul
😅😅
00:38 Actually, you don't need to beat the Ziggurat to finish the main quest. You just need to inspect the planet.
But it's so much cooler to beat it though
Wasn't the requirement to engage the Ziggurat? You can still use a story point to disengage afterwards.
@@HontounoShiramizu If I remenber correctly, you don't need a story point to get away from the ziggurat the first time
Odyssey is absolutely not a AI ship. They can't keep the ship broadsiding and they are REALLY agressive with the Plasma Burn.
As a flagship, 10/10, it is the only capital I fly when I get it.
Generally, when you keep the weapons to one side and the otherside as mostly point defence ive not seen the ai struggle too much with broadsiding.
But yeh ai in capital ships with burn drives seems suicidal at times
@@domino6918 There is another point where the Odyssey is particularly awful for the AI. It cannot position for full firepower.
It has 2 large on one side, and 1 large on the other. The player can easily go 2 plasma/1 MIRV and mass PD.
Do that for AI and it points forward as it wants to. If you go 2 weapons and the offside as a paladin PD, 1 large will not work since the AI will still point forward.
I just about gave up on Broadsiders and Flankers for the AI, and the Odyssey is both. It is really powerful on the side, crushing escorts and then flanking the main battle line after it is engaged.
The AI forms the main battle line with it unless you babysit it, and it still does not broadside and plasma burns in instead of using it for retreats/pursuits.
It is just an awful AI ship overall. Just give them Onslaughts/Paragons and be a Flanker with the Odyssey is what works really well for me.
Nine hundredth like. There you go. Great content!
Love the humor/sarcasm. 👍🏻👍🏻
And I was the 901st :U
This is why the killer queen phase ship is still my favourite to pilot manually. Having a fast (and phase) ship to assassinate and divert attention from your flags is something even these suckers can't deal with. Reaper cannons and phase bombs ftw
Executer is literally the best ship, i play with four of them and they stand in a line and wreck whole fleets. Hardened shields, extended shields, solar shielding and integrated targetting.
Sadly they can be fluxxed out as their capacity sucks, be carefull and burn bright
You should add in a four pack of tanky frigates to your fleet. Personally, my favorite is the Emperor's Shield from the Xhan faction mod pack, but I know there are some tanky vanilla frigates with that damper ability. Those will help take the total focus off your capitals and even allow them time to back off and recover.
One less capital ship for three or four tanky frigate escorting your other capitals will be much stronger fleet overall. I like to put two escorts on the capital ship that tends to get into trouble most often. With officers focused on defensive skills, they will last a very long time. (If you have extra officers for them.)
Yeah agree, how to start more experimenting with different sized fleets.
i think i realy need to back into starcector i never know about the abyss!
It's not something that was in 0.96 so I didn't know about it, either. Time to reinstall it.
The good old spam of capital fortresses is kind of over. The closest you might be able to do is some capitals with long range capable escorts that can fully disable or defend against flanking and or missiles and fighters. The updates of the ship and officer AI, the ship and armanent updates have made the game really challenging the last 2 years...
Nice episode!
Even though Odyssey is my favorite, as an AI ship it deserves all the hate it gets lol. Everything that makes it special are all things that the AI isn't capable of handling. Probably by design since that would make the AI smarter and more skilful than most gamers playing the game lol.
If you want to even begin to fly an Odyssey right you need to turn off 'Turn Ship To Cursor', and ALWAYS save your burn for dodging and escaping. And that's just the beginning.
The Odyssey is only as strong as you are skillful. But if you can match its skill ceilling, it's worth way way more than it costs to use.
You need to use that other scanner thing when in abyss space, it will show you where there are objects
OMG HE'S DOING DA THING
Uran: "I know it (Odyssey) is a strong ship, and everybody likes it. But for some reason it always dies on me, when AI is flying it"
Me, having the same issue with EVERY ship in the game: "Uhh.... Yeah..."
I think I read somewhere that certain fights scale to the time of the game. Back when I first started playing if you didn't attack the shielded planet early game it would be near impossible to beat.
Also, I cheated and gave my Zigg the capabilities of the one you fight. Because.....well.....little energy balls go brrrzzzt
The only ships I've found that the AI can use with any efficiency are carriers once they reach a critical mass. 1-2 carriers are hardly worth anything while 1 Astral + 8 herons with proper wing can destroy pretty much any fleet 1v1 with no casualties.
This makes the carrier perks very weak since most of your wings will get destroyed by PD with low numbers (making the perk useless) and with high numbers the perks give negligible bonuses.
So good to see some quality content
Thank you :)
well, we didn't find anything staring back at us from the Abyss, but we sure taught those Diktats a lesson! We don't need no stinking fuel
underrated af make sure to collect that wormhole anchor though
Please tell me the bottom left stuff is unmodded. Im abt to go there w/o knowing whats there and seeing the first 30 seconds of this video got me hyped
Yup it is unmoded :D
Easiest way to deal with doritos i v seen so far was a pack of Paragons with autopulse lasors and expanded magazines. It works if there are 2 doritos. For 3... its hard...
Well hello to you too.
All you need is a horde of Omens.
I really need to get into this game...
Really addictive, the good way
The builds I saw in this video are not what I would call "good" and no smaller combat ships for battles that need them. Destroyers with Escort Package in a few types of battles are worth their weight in gold.
Abyss truly scare place... No loot...
Yeah that is the scariest part of abyss ... the no loot :D .. But hopefully the Hauler will do something interesting
my man did capital spam and got rolled
The abyss was a big let down. It was interesting to explore and I liked the idea behind it.... but it was just void of actual content.
The Odyssey is a better "broadside" ship than Conquest, it is mobile, has great shield strength and hangars. Only thing Conquest had going for it is the hurricane mirv and it got nerfed so it is trash. Waste of DP points I would literally rather take any other capital ship, yes even the the pirate Atlas, because at least that one has accelerated ammo feeder.
Atlas costs less then 20 DP btw
likes for the like god, comments for the comment throne
Going all capital, especially in vanilla, is an extreme form of self hate. This game's ai is really bad and unless you micro every ship in your fleet every 30 milliseconds with an Operations Center and every command point related perk its best to have only one capital as a fleet anchor (i don't even have that because heavier cruisers are better than capitals in every way, even without considering dp)