Considering all that's coming out I don't see it going that much further besides it getting it's dlc and then after they are probably going to leave the game tbh we have sf6 Tekken 8 and even granblue is making a pretty big comeback.
DNF has 3 lessons to learn: -casuals want CONTENT not pandering, online by itself will not retain them no matter how easy the controls are. -easy powerful offense REQUIRES powerful defensive mechanics, or things get very frustrating. -balancing with buffs is nice and all but sometimes you HAVE to nerf things. I'll be back in centralfiction.
Never got the lack of defensive mechanics complaint at all. Either way devs listened and gave people frame 1 rolls and judging by your comment that wasn't enough. Offense in that game is overexaggerated, peope just didn't manage their meter or didn't play footsies *for the most part*.
@@Bruh-bi6yi You get hit once and you die for it just because the opponent was alive with low hp. Guard cancel and frame 1 rolls will not save you when you get one-touch combo'd by your opponent. The game doesn't even have proper mix and instead relies on punishing the defender for blocking mids and lows for too long. I don't think i-frame rolling and 100 meter guard cancelling is enough to justify fullscreen hitboxes, TODs, and guard break setups
8ing makes really oppressive fighting games with lockdown type offense that they just weren't ready for. A previous Marvel 3 player like myself knew how strong the offense and big buttons would be, but I think a lot of people went into this expecting something that played more like Melty Blood or Strive where getting breathers from offense all day is normal
@@Bruh-bi6yi it's nowhere near enough. to put it in perspective, most combo heavy anime games have burst AND some kind of special guard mechanic AND fast mobility, usually including air mobility. all of that exists to keep the balance between offense and defense since these games have big combos and really hard pressure. now if you look at DNF not only does it not have ANY of those things, but the power level of offensive moves, combos and pressure is higher than most anime games, AND on top of that it has a goddamn guard meter! king of fighters and soul calibur have guard meters, that doesn't belong in games where you can lock someone down for 10 seconds from halfscreen. nothing against the devs but jesus christ bro.
DNF Duel really convinced me that being delayed was probably the best thing that could have happened for Strive, because Goldlewis coming out less than 2 months after the game came out really helped the game keep momentum.
My biggest issue with the game is the same as it always was, the game is over the top in the wrong ways. You can't combine weak movement and defensive options with insane hitboxes and pressure. The game needs a total rework before it really can be considered a good fighting game imo. I'm much more excited for Granblue Fantasy Rising at this point.
Yeah, during the current Steam sale I got GBVS and it's really damn solid stuff, even the base package. I'm an airdash degenerate, by all means, I shouldn't feel this way, but GBVS is out here making me question my experience *and* sexuality. I mean, I knew I could be into guys, but Belial? Can't wait to see what other system changes and characters they have in store. Hopefully the meter game will be diversified even further.
When you get zoned because you play a close range character and you don't have good movement, what are you supposed to do? (I guess it kind of feel like HC vs Ino matchup in ggst) Also some characters have crazy long combos that last like more than 10 sec, wtf... And what i don't like too is the fact that you basically do the same 3 combos over and over again when you get an hit. You can do that in other FG too, but it feels very restricted here (well just my feeling here i suppose?)
I feel like DNF's only real hope was to show up at evo this year,since it released last year and did not get a shot. But since Arcsystem already has 3 games this year,I guess the least popular one got shelved being DNF Duel. Meaning as niche as it is,that was it's only real shot of being spread more and it lost it
If this video showed me anything is that any game can stay alive no matter how little support it’s got, the fact that Marvel 3 is on the main evo stage despite being over 10 years old and the balance is held together by centuries old duck tape, it’s still one of the most iconic and beloved fighters of all time
Since this video seems like it's made in good faith, as an active player and competitor of the game since launch I'd like to share some corrections and perspectives on some of the topics you've mentioned. *Putting this at the beginning though it's mentioned multiple times throughout: ArcSys has very little to do with the development of DNF Duel outside of artistic direction and marketing. Pretty much all of the active development is being done through a rather small team at 8ing with oversight from Nexon/Neople. *5:22 There were actually quite a few MAJOR bugs at launch. There were quite a few infinites, queueing for ranked would often cause the game to freeze for 10-20 seconds at a time, and some people were completely unable to rematch or participate in lobbies. They did a good job at fixing these pretty fast, but saying that the game launched in a decent state is optimistic at best. *6:25 What you say here is pretty much categorically false. The changes to Swift Master had an extreme affect on his viability, pushing him from an extremely broken top 1 character to an upper mid tier at best. Alongside these Swift Changes, the changes to Striker and Hitman were incredibly important as well. Striker's guard break string was a major issue and the patch completely removed it. Hitman's Awakening DP used to have no counterplay whatsoever, however the patch at the very least gave options against it (regardless of however difficult it was to punish when he had conversion). These changes greatly lowered the power ceiling of the game and in all honestly probably saved it from completely dying out. *I think you definitely should have emphasized the Grand Balance patch more, because while it didn't do much to help the game in the eyes of the public, or its player count for that matter, it definitely created a more even playing field for lower tier characters. I don't think it would be possible for a Grappler to have won a major like Frosty Faustings before the patch, and the same goes for other characters that were considered bad. *8:10 Don't really blame you for this one but the game has a pretty active community with matchmaking on a discord server that I help run with 500+ people. Most everyone there intends on sticking with the game until Spectre releases. I would post a link here but UA-cam doesn't tend to like those so you can search up "DNF Grind" on twitter and it should be the first result. *I'm not really trying to defend the egregious wait for Spectre, but at the very least we're getting 2 additional characters within the same year, so it at least has a future beyond just her. *11:40 Comparing DFO's playercounts to DNF Duel's is just silly. One of them is an MMO that's existed since 2004 and has actual decades of legacy, while the other is a fighting game in a relatively unknown IP in the West. It's just apples to oranges. Overall an OK video, just held back by not really telling the whole story and a few inaccuracies.
You typed all that shit just to keep throating a dead game. Nobody reading all that shit bro, your game is wack, people been saying it’s wack, stay off the copium my guy
I actually picked up DNF D earlier this month as a temporary substitute while Strive network remains broken (havent been able to connect to tower since the Xbox crossplay patch), and I was surprised at how much raw FUN the game is. Even from the start, at a completely casual level it's a hoot. It's heartbreaking that it ended up this way. Fingers crossed that word spreads about how much it's improved and it becomes populated again.
Though I stick with saying that the 'training-mode-less' betas for DNF were the most fun me and a lot of people had with fighting-games for a while, Strive thought me a painful lesson on how major fighters need to have something to engage people to keeping playing, and it was clear to me DNF wouldn't have that and wouldn't keep much of a playerbase, so I wouldn't put my money on it. From the get go, I felt like they were aiming for it to be bigger in Asia, but is hard to think it would succeed on name value alone when trying to get MMO players into a game lacking content so much, and it feels like the project was mismanaged regardless of that. And also, that roadmap has to be the sorriest excuse for the word I've ever seen...
The game looks so good by *feels* so bad. I have this problem, Arcsys's most recent games. (GGS, GB, DNF) The jumps in these games all feel *really, really bad* , there's no inertia when jumping off a run, the physics feels really wonky and less snappy than any other fighting game (yes even MK), and in GGS specifically, the air dashes have too much delay it feels less like your dashing in the air and more like your jumping horizontally.
@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034agreed, ever since BBTAG arcsys has just been releasing duds in my opinion… strive isn’t bad but it’s not the air dasher we’re use to, what happened to arcsys????
DNF Duel is probably my favorite fighting game, and it just makes me really sad that the game is on life support (at best). I'm hopeful that the game will have a comeback, but it's not looking good.
@@itsjustbradttv2382 ill play it with you, and i truly hope with all the reworks they said they were working in on, and the whole dlc that will probably have the crossplay (they said at launch they eere gonna release it later) somewhere in the middle will help the game get better and make a slight comeback, start having a small but dedicated community like gbvs and melty blood with a good amount of people that loves and plays the game like i do, ill surely try out all dlcs anywau
Sadly..Granblue was so sick,but if it is not Guilty Gear or mid-ball fighterz Arcsystem will barely act like the game exists and it ends up dying way too quickly
And ArcSys ain't the team that's actually working on this game. Arc is like a supporting company while the 8ing and Nexon are the ones actually in charge.
They released a game with good visuals, but horrid balancing, buggy infinites, a lack of defensive options, obnoxious comeback mechanics, and a gross lack of mixups for like 50 bucks (wayy higher in some places due to regional pricing too!)
If you started playing fighting games in the 90s you wouldn't have this mental block. In the early to mid 90s especially there was almost no air dashers except for Marvel games. Even in Marvel the air dash was more complex than the generic 2 way air dash that has been made common by Melty Blood and other doujin like fighters. Just gotta play more types of fighters.
@@monsterofvoices Yeah because Dark Stalkers definitely didn’t exist and definitely didn’t INVENT air dashing. Don’t act like an authority on a subject you know nothing about.
@@AMnotQ DS/Vampire didn’t really create the type of 2 way air dash game that anime players are fixated on and in general that has never really taken off competitively outside of Japan. The fixation on 2 way air dash for neutral started with Melty and other anime doujin games. Which has created an environment where someone can end up only having muscle memory for those types of games. In the same way that SF players have to break out of molds to learn 3d or anime games. It’s just about playing more types of games.
Not only DNF was not in the main lineup, Warner and EVO had the audacity to put MULTIVERSUS on the main streams (idk if the stage as well, but at least on the streams). Like I get why, but they bothered to do that for an even NEWER fighting game that was getting a lot of attraction and people were still learning and still gave 0 room to DNF Duel than a side tournament like every other minor fighitng game to be streamed by someone else. -Edit: DNF Duel did had a couple of major bugs. First being in training mode the game would freez when pairing you with an opponent (making labbing really frustraiting), matchmake not working at all until you relaunch the app and the rematch promp being straight up DISABLED offten. So the online experience, even having rollback, made it close to misserable; and PlayStation version of the game have too much input delay.
One thing i didn't quite like about DNF is how long the combos in it ware. At times the game felt like Touch of death the game. Game really needed a burst mechanic. Also it felt like the game had zero combo creativity. As optimal combos had no drawbacks.
This isn't on arcsys, unfortunately Nexon makes ALL the choices on dlc and balance update approvals. Eighting made the game/mechanics itself. All arcsys did was lend them their engine for the game. Nexon is notorious for lackluster updates on their games.
Vanguard screams "first character designed." he's the only one affected by dodging: everyone else either has multi-hits that don't wait for a connection, or lingering hitboxes that don't care about your dodge...or in launcher's case, a move that literally sucks you in if you dodge. Pairing that with those same moves leading to combos that take 50-80% of your life (or just straight up death), you get a 46 player count on steam, no matter how many patches you come out with. At this point, I play the game to watch it die, and celebrate the execution of a bad execution. Considering I paid 50 bucks for this, its demise is my money's worth
I've notice a trend of Ape Escapes OST being utilized in commentary videos and was curious if this was a coincidence or is there something the algorithm is pushing 🤔
@@MeltyVampire it just feels like such a specific choice. Ape Escape for such a long time was under-represented online in terms of content or appreciation. It always had its fans, but the series as a whole always felt under the radar. I'm sure the sentiment was felt with Jet Set too, however Naganuma really gained status from his works whereas there doesn't seem to be the same adoration for the composer Terada.
@Emrls well I could just be being too weird about it. Maybe the people using it were fans in their childhood. It's got some exposure because it's on current playstation now service which let's you play old games for "free".
I think Nexon kinda messed up when trying to schedule out the game and its future. They obviously wanted to do a game like GBVS, but only really wanted to put money into the visuals of the game, and didn't see any long standing and immediate future for the game so they just waited forever to get more momentum going, but I think the mixture of people having always moving on so quickly to new games 24/7 and the competition it had and is going to have, I think their approach to trying to make and support a fighting game was misguided and not the best thing to do in terms of long-term support. While I think it was kinda nice that DNF Duel has basically been able to be content complete for a long while now, I will admit that most people definitely have way shorter of an attention span then me, and its just sad to see the great stuff ArcSys and 8ing did for the game go to waste
I don’t get why people are complaining about a new character being in development. That’s ten times better than planned dlc, or worse, on disc dlc/disk locked content.
The problem is that the character in development has been talked about and has already been in development for 2-3 months. Now you want them to be delayed even more? To contrast, Bedman? Has been announced and will be coming out less than a month from then.
@@MagmaSpacer I dunno if you remember smash 4, but they announced Mewtwo was in development, and it took longer than 3 to pop em out. Saying a character is being developed is fine. I can wait. A new character isn’t going to make or break a game (see Labcoat 21).
@@ffjfvfhu Saying a character is in development is fine, but saying a character is in development and then showing the character again and saying they’re in development is kind of redundant and kills hype. Not to mention the games are totally different. Smash 4 has a lot more casual content to keep players busy with while Dnf has no playerbase and hasn’t gotten any major content updates. Plus this would be waiting like 5-6 months for a character. That’s insane.
This is a fun game to play with friends casually if you can get it cheap, but not a game I'm willing to spend too much time into. And I presume most people thinks about the same thing about it.
A year later, this still holds up in some regards. But some of the issues have been fixed, and with the patches so far, it's a nice game. Granted, it still needs an ASS LOAD of content to stay afloat, but that's a pipe dream at this point. Yeah, I'll still play it, I'm a fan.
to be completely honest, I think the games barrier of entry ($50!) for almost no guarantees of sustained and new content is the main thing stopping new players from getting into it
The big reason I never found an interest in DNF Duel was because there weren't really characters - just classes. It felt weird and strangely enough I couldn't find an interest in playing any of these classes. Weird reason, but if they had names I would have likely picked it up.
Another point that you didn't mention but I feel is extremely important is the price. Most Discord fighters tend to be cheap, encouraging people to buy them even if there's very few active players. _BlazBlue Centralfiction_ has a regular price of *40 USD,* but it VERY OFTEN goes on sale for *10 USD.* _DNF Duel_ has a base price of *50 USD,* and when it goes on sale (which isn't often), it is still at *30 USD.*
DNF Duel also doesn't have regional pricing on steam, so it can be even more expensive compared to other games in some countries. For example, for the same price as DNF Duel I can get BB Centralfiction AND GG Strive with both season passes, even without any discounts
The biggest barrier for me and only reason I never played it was the price. Fighting games need to be cheaper if they want to retain a large player base
For Single Player Experiences in fighting games I would like to hear your thoughts on story modes like in Injustice, MK9, Blazblue, GBvs., and Guilty Gear.
Character personality being restricted to the moveset and arcade really sucks because holy shit, I sunk my teeth into Inquisitor harder than I did Baiken in Strive, I took one look at Baikens design and super and she got me into my now favourite fighting game (Sorry Tekken 7), so for me to like Inquisitor MORE is a testament to my feelings on the game I want this game to blossom. I hope they do a season of DLC and get a main stage at EVO with a great sale of the game and a balance patch to punch so that they can Grandblue this game back into mainstream. Honestly if they give it the Fantasy Strike/CS:GO treatment and market it on accessibility I would be beyond happy. But until that day comes, DNF doesn't have what it takes to break the mold like it absolutely should have
I think the game could have done fine and gotten a decent size but niche community if they didn't only start doing DLC a whole year after release. Like how are you going to get new eyes on the game if you don't have anything new and cool to market at any big events?
I hate this community's obsession with constant DLC. They used to take their time with huge expansions that add 8-12 characters plus new content. Now they just drip feed via season passes.
That doesn't really matter, SG DLC started WAY after release. A Game doesnt need a constant drip feed to gain a following. Face it, the game is just bad.
Developers need to realize that fighting games can't rely on having no content compared to other genres. Adding a new character to a bland sandbox won't turn it into a playground
@@dankgothtrash It really depends on the expansions, some are good but some like street fighter 4 to super made you buy a whole new game that's why a lot of people hated the extensions back in the day
I thought I was the only one who cared about Parasite Eve, but no, Out of Phase is one of the best single tracks in the series and you put it in the video Thanks man!
I feel like DNF Duel is good counterargument to the idea that fighting games should embrace just giving everyone super powerful tools / tools that cover all options / let us do what we want. "If everyone's broken, no one is". I think DNF proves that while MvC2 has a huge fanbase (from a era when there weren't as many FG options available as today), most people today don't want to have to deal with unrelenting bullshit all the time. And if everyone's broken, it's very likely that some will still be more broken than others, and potentially by a lot.
idk,I mean mk9 was a perfect example of "if everyone's broken, no one is" and everyone loved and still loves the shit out of that game to this day. It can work,but it has to be very specific in how it does
The problem with DNF Duel wasn't just that it was an Everyone Is OP TOD-fest, the problem is being an OP TOD-fest with minimal defensive play and slow movement.
@@clashmanthethird yeah, i did not enjoy my short experience with dnf but i think marvel 3 is a great game, they're both bullshit but you can move in marvel. strong movement makes the bullshit fun.
It´s pritty shitty to say and yeah things failing is shitty but I feel very validated in DNF failing. I knew this game would hold peoples interest for just a short while before completely falling off. I wish I would have been wrong but sadly I am not. The main thing is still the games core mechanics combined with the insane powerlevel some of these characters have. No amount of tournament presence or season pass could have made this better. More constant balance updates could have kept the game alive longer but not by a lot except if they would have made big system mechanic changes. My guess is that they never intended for DNF to be this huge game that gets updates. More like they wanted to make a one and done game like back in the day and people will have to deal with a horribly broken system and characters. But that is simply not how games work nowadays. Fighting games especially are already lagging behind by quite a lot when it comes to certain practices in the online gameing space. I mean good netcode just recently became a more widespread priority by fg devs. DNF then falling even more behind was just unacceptable by most people. This begs the question: Did the decision making people simply not care or are they incompetent? The marketing surely made it seem like DNF would be this huge game with a great amount of polish and support. Was there some misscommunication? Is there a discrepancy between what the devs wanted to make and what was expected of them? I don´t have the answers. And as much as I hate to say it I have to be negative again and don´t think the future updates will breath any life back into the game except for maybe a day or two. People will try out the new characters, see that it´s still the same game they do not wish to play and leave again.
It be that way. I was a big fan of the betas as it the beta dropped out of nowhere as a dark release. Really liked how all of the characters had inspiration from fighting games and I have friends who were big fans of the MMO. I thought good rollback would save anime games, but I guess not every one LOL
This might seem like a dumb reason not to play a game. But I can’t stand block buttons in traditional fighters. The only reason I didn’t play this or Granblue is because they have block buttons.
Also something of note: the lack of updates is mostly on the fault of Neopoke the developers. Apparently they are notorious for leaving their spin-off games to the dust while only supporting their main titles they know will do well. And since DNF didn’t sell like hotcakes well… yeah
They announced all this stuff and it didn’t even excite me. I’ve been hyped for Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8. Street Fighter 6 comes out right when they implement this stuff. It’s too little too late.
Itr's kinda sad that DNF did not do that well, but I'm happy that it existed and that it was my gateway into fighting games! If it wasn't for DNF Dueal, I would've never even tried to play any Fighting game out of sheer fear of being bad at motion inputs lol
really interesting video. personally I'm very glad to see Melty get the spot over dnf but I wish there was room for everything. I'm definitely an 'I'll play anything and I hope they all succeed' fighting game fan, but sometimes the path isn't as easy as others. (I only wish I could find games in melty, the ranked mode doesn't work well for me for whatever reason, perhaps there aren't many people playing. I admit I haven't tried in a while, unlike kof where I try every few weeks to no avail. but I digress) edit - based on your comments about looking at single player games... I really think you should do a video on how mk11 as a package has so many things players have been asking for for years but it's overlooked because (and then you could shit on the gameplay or whatever you think the issue is with nrs games in the wider fgc. make fun of the animation, what have you lmao). I try not to push NRS games, I understand they are different, but I started with them and it always shocks me the things people say they want but then mk games don't click. and of course there's reasons for that, I just think they're interesting! ahem
Long time DFO player here. I hate how badly this game is doing; it's like they WANT this game to fail or something. But unfortunately, the whole-not-telling-us-anything thing stems back to when DFO was updating. Usually whenever we get updates they just shove a bunch at us and then stay quiet for a while. (Sound familiar?) This works fine for MMO players and the genre, because while the developers are cooking things up the MMO players are eating up the other new content, which is usually A LOT all at once. So by the time we're done eating it up we get more. It's a system that works for this genre and is why DFO is SO popular in Korea and still running in the global servers. However- For some reason, they decided to go with this same system with a *fighting game*. A totally different game genre with totally different fans; and that couldn't have been a poorer decision. It's like putting a square toy into a circle hole and wondering why it isn't working. I don't know why they decided to not communicate with us about this game. It's like there's some old stubborn people in the company who think that every game should be processed the same way like DFO (The mmo) was, and that it's the only way it'll ever become as popular as DFO is. Whatever mindset they're having with DNF duel has to go if it's going to succeed.
I find it funny to hear the 6 months until major balance changes being the reason it lost so many players, considering how long SF6 is going without any major patches. For a community used to playing games that stay unbalanced past their final patch, it's weird that whenever something new comes out it's suddenly a disaster if it doesn't get frequent updates.
I personally think that one of the key issues is that DNF Duel was released with the devs thinking it would bring in DFOs playerbase. Essentially testing if Dungeon Fighter could do the Marvel Strategy of "Stick its logo on it and everyone will show up". When it turned out that plan flopped, they had to scramble to do something to put the game on life support.
I feel like it was designed to be a singleplayer game in its mechanics.. But then actually lacked singleplayer content.. It's simultaneously snowbally, but also filled with comeback mechanics.. With some characters who only get to play their character when they're in awakening mode... Games usually play out with one person landing a hit then transitioning it into an 80% combo which takes 30 seconds to complete... followed by the other person landing a hit and transitioning it into a ToD because they got put into awakening. In particular, I won't be playing until they add some sort of defensive mechanic in the air. Whether it's air-blocking, or parrying, or anything like it... The game has 1-button DPs and hitboxes which cover everywhere on screen at once.. there is no way to approach.
I honestly do feel bad for the DNF Duel fans. I hope DNFD will make a come back regardless if it's by dlcs, a new game or Daisuke making a successor to tag with his game featuring Guilty Gear, DNF and many other franchises Arc Sys worked on like Chaos Code? Iirc they either published the series or just teamed up with FK Digital to work on it.
Imagine releasing your first character a full year of your game release and during the time when a new fighting game is gonna take over the entire Summer by storm which is SF6. They just showed everyone they don’t give a damn about their game. The way they even announced it like this was normal for fighting game marketing was the most hilarious part😂
This game to me ain’t dead yet. I hate that we aren’t getting DLC until the summer, and it’s being spread out all the way into 2024, when we should’ve had DLC for this game already. This game clearly went through development hell. But, at the same time, I’m glad 8ing and Arcsys and Neople are actually telling us what’s going on with this game and giving us content at all. That’s all I wanted. More content. So I don’t think we should call it dead.
I really wanted to play dnf, but spending so much in a game that I’m not sure will have people to play with(especially being from SAM) is just hard, sad I hope the game bounces back tho
Broken = Fun It’s this new crowd of fgc players that complain about every patch and character. They say DNF combos are long. But have NEVER been on the opposite end of Zeros lightning loops. 😅
you know what DNF reminds me of? It reminds me of GBVS, and I hate that, because I love that game. It really sucks to see a game with so much potential fall by the wayside. GBVS is doing fine these days, but man was it shaky near the beginning
@@BeeLy1011 is it though? centralfiction has 250+ average and the last support it got was the rollback patch before DNF came out. and that game is a 6 years old ultra sweaty anime fighter.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz Blazblue's community is VERY passionate and Steam is the only version with rollback so I'm not surprised. Games like DOA, Under Night, The BBTAG, and P4AU all teeter around the 80-barely over 100 range (Though the latter can be blamed on its botched PC port). Granblue was the same until Rising was announced iirc.
@@BeeLy1011 DOA: 135 (no rollback) Under Night: 75 (no rollback) BBTag: 33 (nobody likes this game) P4AU: 146 DNF: 65 Stats taken at 9:30 AM EST. Cope.
If I ever make an indie fighting game - I'm gonna go WILD on the consumer's expectations and announce in it's trailer that the game will get NO patches. So anyone who puts in work in the game will forever have that work put in. No patch will ever undo any work you've done. Old school fighting game mentality.
The only thing DNF DUEL is still going strong besides a dedicated community is the modding scene for that game. That said, I want to see more than just color palette mods for characters. I wonder what MODs will Spectre get other than recolor her to a certain character.
The dev support and marketing around this game is what’s really wrong with this game. The game itself is fun and flawed and full of potential to become a terrific game if it has the support other games got. Months behind where it should be
The answer is simple: The game isn't fun. None of the things mentioned here would have saved it. Being at EVO doesn't impact how well a game is received. Casuals aren't lining up to play a game because it was at EVO. It might have given it more exposure, but it wouldn't have stopped its decline. Updates aren't a thing that makes a game thrive nor does it give it longevity. If a game you don't care about gets DLC, you're not going to care about it again. Balance patches? It makes the game better for people who are already playing, but unless it is something massive, it isn't bringing people back. (For example, you brought up patch notes that included quite a few changes to the best character in the game, yet you wrote it off as insignificant... despite the fact that you barely played the game.) I don't understand people's obsession with single player content in fighting games. If the other modes were good but the main game isn't good enough to keep interest, the game would still die. At that point, it would be a single player game, not an online multiplayer game. Having loads of single player content would be good for sales, but we are discussion the fighting game community. Having those things wouldn't change anything about the latter half. What determines whether a game lives or dies is the game itself. GBFV had a rocky start but still comes up. BBCF also comes up despite it being nearly a decade old. DNF Duel didn't fall off because the devs didn't throw enough money and support at it. It fell off because it isn't a game a lot of people would enjoy playing consistently. This isn't to say that it is a bad game. It just isn't mass appealing enough.
3:10 - 3:33 , I see you touched on this but here's another example. Samurai Showdown was announced to be an Evo mainline event before its release. To put that into perspective, the Samurai Showdown Evo happened in August of 2019 and the game came out in June of 2019. If a game like SamSho, which had a fraction of the hype of DNF DUEL, could be a main event game there is no reason DNF DUEL shouldn't have been a contender. Respectfully, I would've preferred to see DNF's broken shit than to watch Lumina's run.
This game needs air block, air dash, air throw and something to stop people from attack juggling. I'm playing it now and there are players out there that have literally made me put the controller down and just walk away until the match is over. PS: Mods are on point though.
The game needed to find a way to release WAY cheaper than a full priced $60 game. END OF VIDEO. No one on the comment section mentions this so I doubt anyone knows how a community can carry a game to high potentials. It’s launch could have been huge if it wasn’t so expensive. It’s crazy how people don’t see ACTUAL reasons and talk about gameplay flaws. Nothing when the game launched would have kept it from growing. It’s the amount of people that play it and may find a hidden joy they didn’t expect. That’s literally how people fall in love with games…
This is all's Nexon's fault. They have the tendency to drop projects if they are not insta hits, and they probably overstimated how well the game would be recieved over here. Also, the regional pricing for this games SUCKS ASS, its a really expensive game for some countries for what little content they give you.
I knew this game was gonna flop from the start. NEOPLE well know for giving little to no support when it come to their other games with the DNF ip. I do hope they pick things back up again during and after season 1 dlc
It doesn't help that the marketing is painfully mid as well and is full priced as well. I love this game, but lack of communication and lack of more defensive options makes dealing with it frustrating. However, I still want it to improve and I want it to keep going even as things are looking grim.
Influencers killed DNF Duel. They shilled it so hard in a united front like I've never seen. A lot of us could see it coming from a mile away but the letdown many people felt after paying wayyyyy too much for a barebones fighter turned into a lot of community backlash. At the end of the day it's a busted kusoge that should've launched at 20$ without recruiting every single FGC influencer possible to hype it up. Had that happened it would've built steam over time and never had the ill will the title carries.
That's what I've been saying all this time. All the FG influencers shat on DNF so hard that the West/American FGC took it as gospel that "DNF bad" and all dropped the game
Personally I would be playing DNF Duel right now, however my time is limited so I decided to focus on only one fighting game for now. Which probably would have been DNF if I didn't see Fuuka Taisen in the Frosty Faustings Mystery tournament. It is easily the most niche fighting game I have ever played, we have ~50 people in the discord but only roughly 10 of us are actually active.
I hope DNF Duel makes a comeback, it's honestly really cool imo
Same here man I like it, but sadly don't have anyone to play with and I'm not good enough to keep up with the small playerbase.
Considering all that's coming out I don't see it going that much further besides it getting it's dlc and then after they are probably going to leave the game tbh we have sf6 Tekken 8 and even granblue is making a pretty big comeback.
Me too, i hope with all the dlcs and changes it gets as popular as stuff like melty or granblue right now, with a solir community
@Cryptix they said they were also gonna like, add brand new mechanics and rework the game tho so i feel trustful
@@Bobrystoteles they said the awakening changes were just the start though, they wanna kinda rework the game
DNF has 3 lessons to learn:
-casuals want CONTENT not pandering, online by itself will not retain them no matter how easy the controls are.
-easy powerful offense REQUIRES powerful defensive mechanics, or things get very frustrating.
-balancing with buffs is nice and all but sometimes you HAVE to nerf things.
I'll be back in centralfiction.
Never got the lack of defensive mechanics complaint at all. Either way devs listened and gave people frame 1 rolls and judging by your comment that wasn't enough. Offense in that game is overexaggerated, peope just didn't manage their meter or didn't play footsies *for the most part*.
Central Fiction seems like a game that slowly lurks over with an eerie smile.
@@Bruh-bi6yi You get hit once and you die for it just because the opponent was alive with low hp. Guard cancel and frame 1 rolls will not save you when you get one-touch combo'd by your opponent. The game doesn't even have proper mix and instead relies on punishing the defender for blocking mids and lows for too long. I don't think i-frame rolling and 100 meter guard cancelling is enough to justify fullscreen hitboxes, TODs, and guard break setups
8ing makes really oppressive fighting games with lockdown type offense that they just weren't ready for. A previous Marvel 3 player like myself knew how strong the offense and big buttons would be, but I think a lot of people went into this expecting something that played more like Melty Blood or Strive where getting breathers from offense all day is normal
@@Bruh-bi6yi it's nowhere near enough.
to put it in perspective, most combo heavy anime games have burst AND some kind of special guard mechanic AND fast mobility, usually including air mobility. all of that exists to keep the balance between offense and defense since these games have big combos and really hard pressure.
now if you look at DNF not only does it not have ANY of those things, but the power level of offensive moves, combos and pressure is higher than most anime games, AND on top of that it has a goddamn guard meter!
king of fighters and soul calibur have guard meters, that doesn't belong in games where you can lock someone down for 10 seconds from halfscreen.
nothing against the devs but jesus christ bro.
DNF Duel really convinced me that being delayed was probably the best thing that could have happened for Strive, because Goldlewis coming out less than 2 months after the game came out really helped the game keep momentum.
I also wish that P4AU got a delay because if that game released with Rollback I think it would've been going strong rn
Funny how I called this the "final nail in Granblue's coffin"... and then a while later this game became a graveyard and Rising gets announced.
My biggest issue with the game is the same as it always was, the game is over the top in the wrong ways. You can't combine weak movement and defensive options with insane hitboxes and pressure. The game needs a total rework before it really can be considered a good fighting game imo. I'm much more excited for Granblue Fantasy Rising at this point.
Yeah, during the current Steam sale I got GBVS and it's really damn solid stuff, even the base package.
I'm an airdash degenerate, by all means, I shouldn't feel this way, but GBVS is out here making me question my experience *and* sexuality.
I mean, I knew I could be into guys, but Belial?
Can't wait to see what other system changes and characters they have in store. Hopefully the meter game will be diversified even further.
How much y’all wanna bet the game’s gonna get a sequel
Facts
When you get zoned because you play a close range character and you don't have good movement, what are you supposed to do? (I guess it kind of feel like HC vs Ino matchup in ggst)
Also some characters have crazy long combos that last like more than 10 sec, wtf...
And what i don't like too is the fact that you basically do the same 3 combos over and over again when you get an hit. You can do that in other FG too, but it feels very restricted here (well just my feeling here i suppose?)
They said they were gonna rework it so lets hope for the best
I feel like DNF's only real hope was to show up at evo this year,since it released last year and did not get a shot. But since Arcsystem already has 3 games this year,I guess the least popular one got shelved being DNF Duel. Meaning as niche as it is,that was it's only real shot of being spread more and it lost it
Of course is not in evo it have no player base homie
What's the third game? There's DBFZ and GGST
@@Pestigirioso Granblue Fantasy Versus
@@birdybyrd5742 Welp, I think you are talking about Evo Japan. There are only 2 games from ArcSys there: GGST and Granblue
Rushdown Revolt had EVO an it's not even fully released yet XD
If this video showed me anything is that any game can stay alive no matter how little support it’s got, the fact that Marvel 3 is on the main evo stage despite being over 10 years old and the balance is held together by centuries old duck tape, it’s still one of the most iconic and beloved fighters of all time
Marvel 3 wasn't disrespectfully made. A cross up character AND a block button? Fuck arcsys
Dnf duel is a tale of tragedy. I really enjoyed that game but it died on the vine
The problem with DNF is that the movement feels like shit. It's the only Eighting game with this shitty movement.
I do hope DNF Duel makes a comeback just like GBVS Rising, it took a while but they did it.
Since this video seems like it's made in good faith, as an active player and competitor of the game since launch I'd like to share some corrections and perspectives on some of the topics you've mentioned.
*Putting this at the beginning though it's mentioned multiple times throughout: ArcSys has very little to do with the development of DNF Duel outside of artistic direction and marketing. Pretty much all of the active development is being done through a rather small team at 8ing with oversight from Nexon/Neople.
*5:22 There were actually quite a few MAJOR bugs at launch. There were quite a few infinites, queueing for ranked would often cause the game to freeze for 10-20 seconds at a time, and some people were completely unable to rematch or participate in lobbies. They did a good job at fixing these pretty fast, but saying that the game launched in a decent state is optimistic at best.
*6:25 What you say here is pretty much categorically false. The changes to Swift Master had an extreme affect on his viability, pushing him from an extremely broken top 1 character to an upper mid tier at best. Alongside these Swift Changes, the changes to Striker and Hitman were incredibly important as well. Striker's guard break string was a major issue and the patch completely removed it. Hitman's Awakening DP used to have no counterplay whatsoever, however the patch at the very least gave options against it (regardless of however difficult it was to punish when he had conversion). These changes greatly lowered the power ceiling of the game and in all honestly probably saved it from completely dying out.
*I think you definitely should have emphasized the Grand Balance patch more, because while it didn't do much to help the game in the eyes of the public, or its player count for that matter, it definitely created a more even playing field for lower tier characters. I don't think it would be possible for a Grappler to have won a major like Frosty Faustings before the patch, and the same goes for other characters that were considered bad.
*8:10 Don't really blame you for this one but the game has a pretty active community with matchmaking on a discord server that I help run with 500+ people. Most everyone there intends on sticking with the game until Spectre releases. I would post a link here but UA-cam doesn't tend to like those so you can search up "DNF Grind" on twitter and it should be the first result.
*I'm not really trying to defend the egregious wait for Spectre, but at the very least we're getting 2 additional characters within the same year, so it at least has a future beyond just her.
*11:40 Comparing DFO's playercounts to DNF Duel's is just silly. One of them is an MMO that's existed since 2004 and has actual decades of legacy, while the other is a fighting game in a relatively unknown IP in the West. It's just apples to oranges.
Overall an OK video, just held back by not really telling the whole story and a few inaccuracies.
You typed all that shit just to keep throating a dead game. Nobody reading all that shit bro, your game is wack, people been saying it’s wack, stay off the copium my guy
A essay for a video essay is insane
I actually picked up DNF D earlier this month as a temporary substitute while Strive network remains broken (havent been able to connect to tower since the Xbox crossplay patch), and I was surprised at how much raw FUN the game is. Even from the start, at a completely casual level it's a hoot. It's heartbreaking that it ended up this way.
Fingers crossed that word spreads about how much it's improved and it becomes populated again.
Though I stick with saying that the 'training-mode-less' betas for DNF were the most fun me and a lot of people had with fighting-games for a while, Strive thought me a painful lesson on how major fighters need to have something to engage people to keeping playing, and it was clear to me DNF wouldn't have that and wouldn't keep much of a playerbase, so I wouldn't put my money on it.
From the get go, I felt like they were aiming for it to be bigger in Asia, but is hard to think it would succeed on name value alone when trying to get MMO players into a game lacking content so much, and it feels like the project was mismanaged regardless of that. And also, that roadmap has to be the sorriest excuse for the word I've ever seen...
It's amazing that despite how polished the game looks the way it has been treated feels like a "doing it for a quick paycheck" type of situation.
The game looks so good by *feels* so bad. I have this problem, Arcsys's most recent games. (GGS, GB, DNF) The jumps in these games all feel *really, really bad* , there's no inertia when jumping off a run, the physics feels really wonky and less snappy than any other fighting game (yes even MK), and in GGS specifically, the air dashes have too much delay it feels less like your dashing in the air and more like your jumping horizontally.
@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034air dashing does feel pretty wired I gotta admit
@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034agreed, ever since BBTAG arcsys has just been releasing duds in my opinion… strive isn’t bad but it’s not the air dasher we’re use to, what happened to arcsys????
DNF Duel is probably my favorite fighting game, and it just makes me really sad that the game is on life support (at best). I'm hopeful that the game will have a comeback, but it's not looking good.
They said they were gonna rework it and add all those dlc characters, so i really hope those reworks keep the game on track, i feel hopeful
They seriously need an entire rework of this game. Most of the game being fullscreen normals isn't great.
Same here bro. I love the grounded movement and huge normals.
Too bad no one plays it 😢
@@itsjustbradttv2382 ill play it with you, and i truly hope with all the reworks they said they were working in on, and the whole dlc that will probably have the crossplay (they said at launch they eere gonna release it later) somewhere in the middle will help the game get better and make a slight comeback, start having a small but dedicated community like gbvs and melty blood with a good amount of people that loves and plays the game like i do, ill surely try out all dlcs anywau
Already learned this Arcsys lesson with Granblu.
Sadly..Granblue was so sick,but if it is not Guilty Gear or mid-ball fighterz Arcsystem will barely act like the game exists and it ends up dying way too quickly
@@Dhampire1976 Well Granblue is getting a big re-release this year. So it'll probably bounce back
@@gidofter_lukge we can only hope 🙏
@Asto 69 it's funny because GB is more complicated that GGS.
And ArcSys ain't the team that's actually working on this game. Arc is like a supporting company while the 8ing and Nexon are the ones actually in charge.
They released a game with good visuals, but horrid balancing, buggy infinites, a lack of defensive options, obnoxious comeback mechanics, and a gross lack of mixups for like 50 bucks (wayy higher in some places due to regional pricing too!)
DNF Duel made me realize how much I need airdashes, I can no longer function without them
Especially in a game with such brutal offense.
If you started playing fighting games in the 90s you wouldn't have this mental block. In the early to mid 90s especially there was almost no air dashers except for Marvel games. Even in Marvel the air dash was more complex than the generic 2 way air dash that has been made common by Melty Blood and other doujin like fighters. Just gotta play more types of fighters.
@@monsterofvoices I was born in 1998. The "I need an airdash" is a self-inflicted mentality.
@@monsterofvoices Yeah because Dark Stalkers definitely didn’t exist and definitely didn’t INVENT air dashing. Don’t act like an authority on a subject you know nothing about.
@@AMnotQ DS/Vampire didn’t really create the type of 2 way air dash game that anime players are fixated on and in general that has never really taken off competitively outside of Japan. The fixation on 2 way air dash for neutral started with Melty and other anime doujin games. Which has created an environment where someone can end up only having muscle memory for those types of games. In the same way that SF players have to break out of molds to learn 3d or anime games. It’s just about playing more types of games.
Not only DNF was not in the main lineup, Warner and EVO had the audacity to put MULTIVERSUS on the main streams (idk if the stage as well, but at least on the streams). Like I get why, but they bothered to do that for an even NEWER fighting game that was getting a lot of attraction and people were still learning and still gave 0 room to DNF Duel than a side tournament like every other minor fighitng game to be streamed by someone else.
-Edit: DNF Duel did had a couple of major bugs. First being in training mode the game would freez when pairing you with an opponent (making labbing really frustraiting), matchmake not working at all until you relaunch the app and the rematch promp being straight up DISABLED offten. So the online experience, even having rollback, made it close to misserable; and PlayStation version of the game have too much input delay.
If yall love the game so much go back and play it show it some love nothing stopping u
I've been saying this for ages but nobody from the West/American FGC seems to care
One thing i didn't quite like about DNF is how long the combos in it ware. At times the game felt like Touch of death the game. Game really needed a burst mechanic.
Also it felt like the game had zero combo creativity. As optimal combos had no drawbacks.
This isn't on arcsys, unfortunately Nexon makes ALL the choices on dlc and balance update approvals. Eighting made the game/mechanics itself. All arcsys did was lend them their engine for the game. Nexon is notorious for lackluster updates on their games.
Vanguard screams "first character designed." he's the only one affected by dodging: everyone else either has multi-hits that don't wait for a connection, or lingering hitboxes that don't care about your dodge...or in launcher's case, a move that literally sucks you in if you dodge. Pairing that with those same moves leading to combos that take 50-80% of your life (or just straight up death), you get a 46 player count on steam, no matter how many patches you come out with. At this point, I play the game to watch it die, and celebrate the execution of a bad execution. Considering I paid 50 bucks for this, its demise is my money's worth
My brother that is SPITE. To the highest degree
I'm glad I saw this. I just got into Guilty Gear and your channel helped me get better. Now I REALLY wanna play this game. Let's revive the fanbase!
I've notice a trend of Ape Escapes OST being utilized in commentary videos and was curious if this was a coincidence or is there something the algorithm is pushing 🤔
Copying just like the jet set radio trend
@@MeltyVampire it just feels like such a specific choice. Ape Escape for such a long time was under-represented online in terms of content or appreciation. It always had its fans, but the series as a whole always felt under the radar. I'm sure the sentiment was felt with Jet Set too, however Naganuma really gained status from his works whereas there doesn't seem to be the same adoration for the composer Terada.
@Emrls well I could just be being too weird about it. Maybe the people using it were fans in their childhood. It's got some exposure because it's on current playstation now service which let's you play old games for "free".
Back in the pre-Sony days, EVO had a rule that a game had to be out for 2 months to be in the line up. I think this rule might still be in place.
I appreciate the parasite eve music you put in the video makes me feel like I’m not the only one that played that game lol 5:09
This is like, Particle Effects: The Game
It’s just too much.
This game can only make a comeback with a price reduction and more marketing. It's current price is completely unjustified
You mean the game is still full price? Christ...
I think Nexon kinda messed up when trying to schedule out the game and its future. They obviously wanted to do a game like GBVS, but only really wanted to put money into the visuals of the game, and didn't see any long standing and immediate future for the game so they just waited forever to get more momentum going, but I think the mixture of people having always moving on so quickly to new games 24/7 and the competition it had and is going to have, I think their approach to trying to make and support a fighting game was misguided and not the best thing to do in terms of long-term support. While I think it was kinda nice that DNF Duel has basically been able to be content complete for a long while now, I will admit that most people definitely have way shorter of an attention span then me, and its just sad to see the great stuff ArcSys and 8ing did for the game go to waste
I don’t get why people are complaining about a new character being in development. That’s ten times better than planned dlc, or worse, on disc dlc/disk locked content.
The problem is that the character in development has been talked about and has already been in development for 2-3 months. Now you want them to be delayed even more? To contrast, Bedman? Has been announced and will be coming out less than a month from then.
@@MagmaSpacer I dunno if you remember smash 4, but they announced Mewtwo was in development, and it took longer than 3 to pop em out. Saying a character is being developed is fine. I can wait. A new character isn’t going to make or break a game (see Labcoat 21).
@@ffjfvfhu Saying a character is in development is fine, but saying a character is in development and then showing the character again and saying they’re in development is kind of redundant and kills hype. Not to mention the games are totally different. Smash 4 has a lot more casual content to keep players busy with while Dnf has no playerbase and hasn’t gotten any major content updates. Plus this would be waiting like 5-6 months for a character. That’s insane.
They decided to release their dlc in the summer. Gee I wonder what could be coming out then........*COUGH COUGH* SF6!
It did a reverse of GBVS.
GBVS got Granblue fans into fighting games. DNFD got some fighting game fans into DFO.
This is a fun game to play with friends casually if you can get it cheap, but not a game I'm willing to spend too much time into. And I presume most people thinks about the same thing about it.
A year later, this still holds up in some regards. But some of the issues have been fixed, and with the patches so far, it's a nice game. Granted, it still needs an ASS LOAD of content to stay afloat, but that's a pipe dream at this point. Yeah, I'll still play it, I'm a fan.
to be completely honest, I think the games barrier of entry ($50!) for almost no guarantees of sustained and new content is the main thing stopping new players from getting into it
The big reason I never found an interest in DNF Duel was because there weren't really characters - just classes. It felt weird and strangely enough I couldn't find an interest in playing any of these classes. Weird reason, but if they had names I would have likely picked it up.
Another point that you didn't mention but I feel is extremely important is the price.
Most Discord fighters tend to be cheap, encouraging people to buy them even if there's very few active players.
_BlazBlue Centralfiction_ has a regular price of *40 USD,* but it VERY OFTEN goes on sale for *10 USD.*
_DNF Duel_ has a base price of *50 USD,* and when it goes on sale (which isn't often), it is still at *30 USD.*
DNF Duel also doesn't have regional pricing on steam, so it can be even more expensive compared to other games in some countries. For example, for the same price as DNF Duel I can get BB Centralfiction AND GG Strive with both season passes, even without any discounts
Online ranked is very alive now
9:57 WOW story and arcade mode? It already has more single player content than BBTAG
Not a fan of the game but I hope it makes a comeback. No game and community deserves to just die out like this
The biggest barrier for me and only reason I never played it was the price. Fighting games need to be cheaper if they want to retain a large player base
For Single Player Experiences in fighting games I would like to hear your thoughts on story modes like in Injustice, MK9, Blazblue, GBvs., and Guilty Gear.
Character personality being restricted to the moveset and arcade really sucks because holy shit, I sunk my teeth into Inquisitor harder than I did Baiken in Strive, I took one look at Baikens design and super and she got me into my now favourite fighting game (Sorry Tekken 7), so for me to like Inquisitor MORE is a testament to my feelings on the game
I want this game to blossom. I hope they do a season of DLC and get a main stage at EVO with a great sale of the game and a balance patch to punch so that they can Grandblue this game back into mainstream. Honestly if they give it the Fantasy Strike/CS:GO treatment and market it on accessibility I would be beyond happy. But until that day comes, DNF doesn't have what it takes to break the mold like it absolutely should have
I think the game could have done fine and gotten a decent size but niche community if they didn't only start doing DLC a whole year after release. Like how are you going to get new eyes on the game if you don't have anything new and cool to market at any big events?
I mean the game already has a loyal community, that's not what it's lacking lol.
I hate this community's obsession with constant DLC. They used to take their time with huge expansions that add 8-12 characters plus new content. Now they just drip feed via season passes.
That doesn't really matter, SG DLC started WAY after release. A Game doesnt need a constant drip feed to gain a following. Face it, the game is just bad.
Developers need to realize that fighting games can't rely on having no content compared to other genres. Adding a new character to a bland sandbox won't turn it into a playground
@@dankgothtrash It really depends on the expansions, some are good but some like street fighter 4 to super made you buy a whole new game that's why a lot of people hated the extensions back in the day
I thought I was the only one who cared about Parasite Eve, but no, Out of Phase is one of the best single tracks in the series and you put it in the video
Thanks man!
I feel like DNF Duel is good counterargument to the idea that fighting games should embrace just giving everyone super powerful tools / tools that cover all options / let us do what we want. "If everyone's broken, no one is". I think DNF proves that while MvC2 has a huge fanbase (from a era when there weren't as many FG options available as today), most people today don't want to have to deal with unrelenting bullshit all the time. And if everyone's broken, it's very likely that some will still be more broken than others, and potentially by a lot.
This
No. It's proof that if you don't actively support your game from the jump people aren't going to stick around with it.
idk,I mean mk9 was a perfect example of "if everyone's broken, no one is" and everyone loved and still loves the shit out of that game to this day. It can work,but it has to be very specific in how it does
The problem with DNF Duel wasn't just that it was an Everyone Is OP TOD-fest, the problem is being an OP TOD-fest with minimal defensive play and slow movement.
@@clashmanthethird yeah, i did not enjoy my short experience with dnf but i think marvel 3 is a great game, they're both bullshit but you can move in marvel. strong movement makes the bullshit fun.
It´s pritty shitty to say and yeah things failing is shitty but I feel very validated in DNF failing. I knew this game would hold peoples interest for just a short while before completely falling off. I wish I would have been wrong but sadly I am not. The main thing is still the games core mechanics combined with the insane powerlevel some of these characters have. No amount of tournament presence or season pass could have made this better. More constant balance updates could have kept the game alive longer but not by a lot except if they would have made big system mechanic changes.
My guess is that they never intended for DNF to be this huge game that gets updates. More like they wanted to make a one and done game like back in the day and people will have to deal with a horribly broken system and characters. But that is simply not how games work nowadays. Fighting games especially are already lagging behind by quite a lot when it comes to certain practices in the online gameing space. I mean good netcode just recently became a more widespread priority by fg devs. DNF then falling even more behind was just unacceptable by most people.
This begs the question: Did the decision making people simply not care or are they incompetent? The marketing surely made it seem like DNF would be this huge game with a great amount of polish and support. Was there some misscommunication? Is there a discrepancy between what the devs wanted to make and what was expected of them?
I don´t have the answers. And as much as I hate to say it I have to be negative again and don´t think the future updates will breath any life back into the game except for maybe a day or two. People will try out the new characters, see that it´s still the same game they do not wish to play and leave again.
It be that way. I was a big fan of the betas as it the beta dropped out of nowhere as a dark release. Really liked how all of the characters had inspiration from fighting games and I have friends who were big fans of the MMO. I thought good rollback would save anime games, but I guess not every one LOL
This might seem like a dumb reason not to play a game. But I can’t stand block buttons in traditional fighters. The only reason I didn’t play this or Granblue is because they have block buttons.
They had a chance to save the game and gave the fans their ass to kiss. Should’ve added more defensive options from the jump
Also something of note: the lack of updates is mostly on the fault of Neopoke the developers. Apparently they are notorious for leaving their spin-off games to the dust while only supporting their main titles they know will do well. And since DNF didn’t sell like hotcakes well… yeah
Maybe the switch port will reawaken the community
This game needs a comeback..if granblue can do it, so can dungeon fighter
Except dnf is run by nexon, which is a shjtty company, not arcsys
They announced all this stuff and it didn’t even excite me. I’ve been hyped for Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8. Street Fighter 6 comes out right when they implement this stuff. It’s too little too late.
This game has a been free on the epic store this week. Hopefully that makes a boot in the player base
i stayed for the Parasite Eve music. ty fellow boomer
arc system works is technically just focusing on strive season 2 now
Itr's kinda sad that DNF did not do that well, but I'm happy that it existed and that it was my gateway into fighting games!
If it wasn't for DNF Dueal, I would've never even tried to play any Fighting game out of sheer fear of being bad at motion inputs lol
really interesting video. personally I'm very glad to see Melty get the spot over dnf but I wish there was room for everything. I'm definitely an 'I'll play anything and I hope they all succeed' fighting game fan, but sometimes the path isn't as easy as others. (I only wish I could find games in melty, the ranked mode doesn't work well for me for whatever reason, perhaps there aren't many people playing. I admit I haven't tried in a while, unlike kof where I try every few weeks to no avail. but I digress)
edit - based on your comments about looking at single player games... I really think you should do a video on how mk11 as a package has so many things players have been asking for for years but it's overlooked because (and then you could shit on the gameplay or whatever you think the issue is with nrs games in the wider fgc. make fun of the animation, what have you lmao). I try not to push NRS games, I understand they are different, but I started with them and it always shocks me the things people say they want but then mk games don't click. and of course there's reasons for that, I just think they're interesting!
ahem
I hear you claims Gecko, but forgive me that I don't think that means DNF Duel's almost on it's death bed.
I want dnf duel to make a comeback simply bc the parent game (dungeon fighter online) is based and my favorite mmo ever lmao
My guess is it's not Arcsys money
Does anyone remember when a game having DLC was seen as a negative?
The game is super fun, but my GOD does it have the slowest dev cycle in existence
Long time DFO player here.
I hate how badly this game is doing; it's like they WANT this game to fail or something. But unfortunately, the whole-not-telling-us-anything thing stems back to when DFO was updating. Usually whenever we get updates they just shove a bunch at us and then stay quiet for a while. (Sound familiar?) This works fine for MMO players and the genre, because while the developers are cooking things up the MMO players are eating up the other new content, which is usually A LOT all at once. So by the time we're done eating it up we get more. It's a system that works for this genre and is why DFO is SO popular in Korea and still running in the global servers.
However-
For some reason, they decided to go with this same system with a *fighting game*. A totally different game genre with totally different fans; and that couldn't have been a poorer decision. It's like putting a square toy into a circle hole and wondering why it isn't working. I don't know why they decided to not communicate with us about this game. It's like there's some old stubborn people in the company who think that every game should be processed the same way like DFO (The mmo) was, and that it's the only way it'll ever become as popular as DFO is.
Whatever mindset they're having with DNF duel has to go if it's going to succeed.
I find it funny to hear the 6 months until major balance changes being the reason it lost so many players, considering how long SF6 is going without any major patches. For a community used to playing games that stay unbalanced past their final patch, it's weird that whenever something new comes out it's suddenly a disaster if it doesn't get frequent updates.
I told people from the start that this game wouldn't be shit. I don't know WHY anyone thought this would be a hit!
I personally think that one of the key issues is that DNF Duel was released with the devs thinking it would bring in DFOs playerbase. Essentially testing if Dungeon Fighter could do the Marvel Strategy of "Stick its logo on it and everyone will show up".
When it turned out that plan flopped, they had to scramble to do something to put the game on life support.
I feel like it was designed to be a singleplayer game in its mechanics.. But then actually lacked singleplayer content..
It's simultaneously snowbally, but also filled with comeback mechanics.. With some characters who only get to play their character when they're in awakening mode... Games usually play out with one person landing a hit then transitioning it into an 80% combo which takes 30 seconds to complete... followed by the other person landing a hit and transitioning it into a ToD because they got put into awakening.
In particular, I won't be playing until they add some sort of defensive mechanic in the air. Whether it's air-blocking, or parrying, or anything like it... The game has 1-button DPs and hitboxes which cover everywhere on screen at once.. there is no way to approach.
I honestly do feel bad for the DNF Duel fans. I hope DNFD will make a come back regardless if it's by dlcs, a new game or Daisuke making a successor to tag with his game featuring Guilty Gear, DNF and many other franchises Arc Sys worked on like Chaos Code? Iirc they either published the series or just teamed up with FK Digital to work on it.
January 2025 update: 10 people online rn
Imagine releasing your first character a full year of your game release and during the time when a new fighting game is gonna take over the entire Summer by storm which is SF6. They just showed everyone they don’t give a damn about their game. The way they even announced it like this was normal for fighting game marketing was the most hilarious part😂
IMO It just need more defensive options
And, not 2 touchy, 2 touching aint even fun as the offender imo
@@Moodyboytodd yeah offense was they main focus in this game lol
This game to me ain’t dead yet. I hate that we aren’t getting DLC until the summer, and it’s being spread out all the way into 2024, when we should’ve had DLC for this game already. This game clearly went through development hell. But, at the same time, I’m glad 8ing and Arcsys and Neople are actually telling us what’s going on with this game and giving us content at all. That’s all I wanted. More content. So I don’t think we should call it dead.
I really wanted to play dnf, but spending so much in a game that I’m not sure will have people to play with(especially being from SAM) is just hard, sad
I hope the game bounces back tho
How is UMVC3 still in Evo when it's a glitchy, broken mess where every character is overpowered in their own ways?
Broken = Fun
It’s this new crowd of fgc players that complain about every patch and character. They say DNF combos are long. But have NEVER been on the opposite end of Zeros lightning loops. 😅
What a great video...this is what informed researched video looks like.
you know what DNF reminds me of? It reminds me of GBVS, and I hate that, because I love that game. It really sucks to see a game with so much potential fall by the wayside. GBVS is doing fine these days, but man was it shaky near the beginning
I just looked at DNF Duel on steam charts....82....with a 24 hour peak at 87...ouch
That's pretty average for a non-mainstream franchise tbh
@@BeeLy1011 is it though?
centralfiction has 250+ average and the last support it got was the rollback patch before DNF came out.
and that game is a 6 years old ultra sweaty anime fighter.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz Blazblue's community is VERY passionate and Steam is the only version with rollback so I'm not surprised.
Games like DOA, Under Night, The BBTAG, and P4AU all teeter around the 80-barely over 100 range (Though the latter can be blamed on its botched PC port). Granblue was the same until Rising was announced iirc.
@@BeeLy1011 u coping really hard dude
@@BeeLy1011
DOA: 135 (no rollback)
Under Night: 75 (no rollback)
BBTag: 33 (nobody likes this game)
P4AU: 146
DNF: 65
Stats taken at 9:30 AM EST.
Cope.
This game was gonna be cool til everyone figured out infinite loops
Stop exaggerating, they patched out the infinite loops
@@ShinRyuuji I think they were also referring to the absurdly long and high damaging combos that are now just considered to be bnbs.
Never played Marvel 3, huh?
All they need to do to have this game come back is remove swift master
If I ever make an indie fighting game - I'm gonna go WILD on the consumer's expectations and announce in it's trailer that the game will get NO patches. So anyone who puts in work in the game will forever have that work put in. No patch will ever undo any work you've done. Old school fighting game mentality.
The only thing DNF DUEL is still going strong besides a dedicated community is the modding scene for that game.
That said, I want to see more than just color palette mods for characters. I wonder what MODs will Spectre get other than recolor her to a certain character.
Lowkey yes
full screen normals the game
At the very least we are getting new content especially new characters. 😇
The dev support and marketing around this game is what’s really wrong with this game. The game itself is fun and flawed and full of potential to become a terrific game if it has the support other games got. Months behind where it should be
The answer is simple: The game isn't fun. None of the things mentioned here would have saved it.
Being at EVO doesn't impact how well a game is received. Casuals aren't lining up to play a game because it was at EVO. It might have given it more exposure, but it wouldn't have stopped its decline.
Updates aren't a thing that makes a game thrive nor does it give it longevity. If a game you don't care about gets DLC, you're not going to care about it again. Balance patches? It makes the game better for people who are already playing, but unless it is something massive, it isn't bringing people back. (For example, you brought up patch notes that included quite a few changes to the best character in the game, yet you wrote it off as insignificant... despite the fact that you barely played the game.)
I don't understand people's obsession with single player content in fighting games. If the other modes were good but the main game isn't good enough to keep interest, the game would still die. At that point, it would be a single player game, not an online multiplayer game. Having loads of single player content would be good for sales, but we are discussion the fighting game community. Having those things wouldn't change anything about the latter half.
What determines whether a game lives or dies is the game itself. GBFV had a rocky start but still comes up. BBCF also comes up despite it being nearly a decade old. DNF Duel didn't fall off because the devs didn't throw enough money and support at it. It fell off because it isn't a game a lot of people would enjoy playing consistently. This isn't to say that it is a bad game. It just isn't mass appealing enough.
Ironically DNF got DNFed (did not finish)
3:10 - 3:33 , I see you touched on this but here's another example. Samurai Showdown was announced to be an Evo mainline event before its release. To put that into perspective, the Samurai Showdown Evo happened in August of 2019 and the game came out in June of 2019. If a game like SamSho, which had a fraction of the hype of DNF DUEL, could be a main event game there is no reason DNF DUEL shouldn't have been a contender. Respectfully, I would've preferred to see DNF's broken shit than to watch Lumina's run.
This game needs air block, air dash, air throw and something to stop people from attack juggling. I'm playing it now and there are players out there that have literally made me put the controller down and just walk away until the match is over.
PS: Mods are on point though.
I actually like that the devs just got rid of grapplers infinite and let the game roll. I think FG's today get patched way to often.
The game needed to find a way to release WAY cheaper than a full priced $60 game. END OF VIDEO. No one on the comment section mentions this so I doubt anyone knows how a community can carry a game to high potentials. It’s launch could have been huge if it wasn’t so expensive. It’s crazy how people don’t see ACTUAL reasons and talk about gameplay flaws. Nothing when the game launched would have kept it from growing. It’s the amount of people that play it and may find a hidden joy they didn’t expect. That’s literally how people fall in love with games…
The game looks fun and I want to try it , but I can't because it's not on XBOX!
This is all's Nexon's fault. They have the tendency to drop projects if they are not insta hits, and they probably overstimated how well the game would be recieved over here. Also, the regional pricing for this games SUCKS ASS, its a really expensive game for some countries for what little content they give you.
IKR I miss its great but Needee more
I knew this game was gonna flop from the start. NEOPLE well know for giving little to no support when it come to their other games with the DNF ip. I do hope they pick things back up again during and after season 1 dlc
It doesn't help that the marketing is painfully mid as well and is full priced as well. I love this game, but lack of communication and lack of more defensive options makes dealing with it frustrating. However, I still want it to improve and I want it to keep going even as things are looking grim.
Influencers killed DNF Duel. They shilled it so hard in a united front like I've never seen. A lot of us could see it coming from a mile away but the letdown many people felt after paying wayyyyy too much for a barebones fighter turned into a lot of community backlash.
At the end of the day it's a busted kusoge that should've launched at 20$ without recruiting every single FGC influencer possible to hype it up. Had that happened it would've built steam over time and never had the ill will the title carries.
That's what I've been saying all this time. All the FG influencers shat on DNF so hard that the West/American FGC took it as gospel that "DNF bad" and all dropped the game
I agree but I did see it coming a mile away mostly because my track record with 3d arcsys games is bad (even tho nexon made this)
@@ShinRyuuji This the exact opposite of what this comment was saying. Did you only read the first sentence??
Personally I would be playing DNF Duel right now, however my time is limited so I decided to focus on only one fighting game for now. Which probably would have been DNF if I didn't see Fuuka Taisen in the Frosty Faustings Mystery tournament. It is easily the most niche fighting game I have ever played, we have ~50 people in the discord but only roughly 10 of us are actually active.