Well, I was curious! 😂 Clark’s Garage says it takes 1 million (jokingly I’m sure), but it turns out it’s far fewer than that. It really isn’t too bad, just don’t attempt it after “arm day” at the gym.
Thank you very much for this video. Tremendous value to the Porsche 944 community. You are very meticulous, everything is well thought out and clearly defined. I hope to follow your procedure when I rebuild my torque tube with these bearings that I purchased some time ago. Thanks again!
Nice! Yeah, a benefit of the early tubes is they lack the “dog ears,” so they don’t have to be turned 180° for removal, you can just pull them straight back and it won’t catch on the support bracket.
After having to do the timing belt, clutch, springs, control arms, door handles, dash lights and vacuum leaks on my 944 in the span of two years, finding out I might have to do this now because of crazy vibration around 2k rpm makes me want to just push the car into a lake.
Nooooo, don’t do it! 😂 That does sound frustrating though after all the work you’ve put in. I’ve been there a couple times with my car and had fleeting thoughts of selling it, but I’ve found that after taking a break from wrenching for a bit, if you can manage enough commitment to get back out there and remove just one or two bolts, before you know it the entire car is disassembled and you’re back in the game. Just think, by year 4 it’ll be perfect… maybe. Wishing you and your 944 the best, whichever direction you go.
Yes! The rebuild is a bit more fun than the removal process… and really makes a difference, the driveline is noticeably quieter and smoother on mine now.
@@smoothwood10 The price seems steep, but they are significantly engineered to last and provide better performance. 944Online has some factory style ones for about half that price…
@@NC944er thanks. I did see the ones on 944online. I have purchased most of my rebuild items from Ian. Not sure if I need the Super Bearings for a car that may only see 5000 miles a year.
@@smoothwood10 Yeah, I’d say probably not necessary… with the only advantage of the super bearings being “peace of mind” in never having to do the job again… ever.
Thanks NC944er for another excellent video. One question though, if reusing the original sleeves and bearing housings, do you recall which direction the rebuilt bearings should go back into the torque tube? Unfortunately I didn't pay attention during removal but I believe the shoulder side of the inner sleeve should be facing the clutch end of the tube.....at least it appears that way for bearing #1 at 6:19 min. of your video. If this is correct, do you recall whether the other 3 bearing inner sleeves should also be pointing in the direction of the clutch side? Thanks for any assistance.
Hey man, it sounds like your understanding is correct. That shot illustrates the bearing from the clutch end. The shoulder side of the bearing housing faces toward the transaxle end and the open side faces toward the clutch. The shoulder of the plastic insert faces toward the clutch as well. That way when the driveshaft is pressed into the tube from the clutch end, it doesn’t inadvertently push the inserts out of the bearing units. All the bearings should be installed facing the same orientation.
Fantastic video, thank you! Question if you don't mind: any tricks to getting the top bolt on the slave cylinder side out? I have the starter out and slave cylinder pushed to the side but still can't seem to get to that bolt with anything
Hey man! I’m assuming you’re referring to the top bolts for the bell housing that are annoyingly crammed in with no space for tools? 😂 The slave cylinder side is a pain… I ended up breaking that one free from above after disconnecting the bracket for the crank sensors and the clamp for the starter wiring harness to create a path to the bolt. I used the closed end of a combination wrench on the bolt with the angled side facing towards the front of the car and then locked the closed end of a second combination wrench onto the open end of the first wrench, basically extending the length as a cheater bar. You should also be able to get a socket with a low profile/stubby ratchet onto that fitting and then a cheater pipe on top of that from above, if it’s a flex-head ratchet even better. Some people have had success from below the car using a socket and a universal joint, followed by a long extension (approximately 2 feet) and a ratchet. If you’re supporting the engine from below using a jack, you may be able to temporarily lower the jack a bit for the engine to drop down and make more space. Once the bolt was fully loosened, I wasn’t able to remove it from the bell housing because the bolt head was hitting the aluminum heat protector on the underside of the car, so I had to pry and wiggle the bell housing off with that bolt loosely hanging in the fitting. Making matters worse, the bell housing wouldn’t clear the clutch assembly because the rubber hose from the heater control valve was blocking the way, so I had to push the hose up into the engine bay using a ratchet extension with one hand while pulling the bell housing out and down with the other hand. What a mess… which is why I didn’t film it. 🤣 In retrospect, I probably could have bungee corded the rubber hose out of the way from above and that would have made things easier. Anyway, hopefully that’s the bolt you were referring to… if instead you meant the top bolt for the torque tube, I used a short combination wrench with a cheater attached. Let me know how it goes for you.
@@HighOnFlying1 Yeah, sure thing! I have two sets of combination wrenches, one Husky and one Craftsman. The same size wrench on the Craftsman is about 2 inches shorter than the Husky, and those shorter ones can often fit in places where the longer ones can’t. Good luck! 👍🏼
Great video! I'm thinking this will be one of the projects I will have to confront on my 1987 924S. Would you happen to have the dimensions and material list for making the wooden torque tube holding fixture? I'm not great with woodworking skills! :)
Thanks! Given enough time and miles, we may all have to confront it. 😂 The wooden jig was constructed from four 8-foot 2x4s and a one pound box of 2.5-inch construction screws. I left the length at 8 feet and cut the center supports to 18 inches. The engine side was elevated about 7 inches from the ground so the tube length would be parallel to the ground. I used one of the longer transaxle flange mounting bolts to secure it on the other end.
Hi @NC944er, can you please share how much doeit cost for the super bearings from black sea R&D? While we are in there, what other parts could get upgraded, at this point I've no idea about health of clutch and it's associated components, gear shift lever and it's associated components, transaxle and its associated components. Last week installed new yellow koni dampers.
The Super Bearings are a little expensive, but very high quality. I paid $850 for the set of four. If your 944 is an NA car with the original rubber-centered clutch, it would be a good idea to replace that while you’re there, and if the clutch is removed, it also makes sense to resurface the flywheel, and if the flywheel is removed, it makes sense to go ahead and replace the rear crankshaft seal. There are a number of other associated parts that go along with all this such as needle bearings for the clutch fork pin, pilot bearing, guide tube, and so on. If there is any slop or play in the movement of the shift lever, this would be a good time to inspect those pieces for replacement. The shift linkage at the transaxle has some rubber bushings that wear out and the cylindrical pin on the metal shift lever can also develop wear over time.
Also, does the clutch kit for an 8V 944 be suitable for a 16V dohc engine on '87 944S? Asking because there is a different part number on the M44.40 engines catalogue for pressure plate. But repair kit seems to be the same.
Hey, sorry I do not have a plan, I just eyeballed it based upon the dimensions of the torque tube. The length of the base uses two 8-foot 2x4s. These are connected by four 18-inch 2x4s, two on each end. These are gapped by about 6 feet, leaving 2 feet of open extension on one end for the wall bracing. The raised support section for the clutch end of the torque tube is 7 inches in height.
Noises from the rear can be difficult to pinpoint. I’d say that’s pretty low mileage for either of those suspects, but not impossible. Does the noise change under any conditions like turning, accelerating, decelerating? If it changes when turning, I’d look at the wheel bearings and CV axles. The transaxles also give off a fair amount of whine, which can be worse with worn or damaged gears. Maybe change your gear oil if you haven’t done that, couldn’t hurt to see the difference. You could also put the car up on jack stands (safely) and run the drive train while you try to narrow down the location.
my problem is that torque rod destroyed pilot bearing to the point theres no pilot bearing housing left, im still trying to dissasemble rear end but all the bolts are either siezed or wont moowe at all
Oh man, yeah the hardware can get pretty crusty back there. I usually hammer them to knock them free of rust, hit them with penetrating oil, let them sit for a bit and, and finally apply a big breaker bar. Good luck!
I wonder how many replaced bearings aren't in their proper place. If the torque tube had been designed split along its length and bolted together the whole process could have been much simpler with better results. Imagine removing the top half to access and replace the bearings and cleaning the 2 halves of the tube fully exposed. would save a lot of wrenching. I'm not an engineer so it's a silly idea.
only suggestion i would make is, instead of using regular wd40, use a silicone based lubricant instead. wd40 and other lubricants can be a little hard on rubber parts, while silicone is much safer
@@gotanksrox5331 Hey, thanks for sharing! I do appreciate your point. In this case, I was following the recommendation of the product manufacturer. My understanding is that the light application of WD-40 provides enough lubrication to easily slide the bearings into place, and then as they sit over 24 hours, some of the mineral spirits (solvents) in the WD-40 will evaporate and allow the bearings to “lock” into place, whereas a silicone lubricant would not evaporate. The manufacturer had concerns that the bearings may move during drive shaft installation, and that’s what they were trying to solve for.
@@NC944er that makes sense. i'd just hate to go through all that trouble of getting the bearings installed just to have them get eaten away by the wd40. maybe something like dish soap would work too?
@@gotanksrox5331 Totally agree, it’s a lot of work to get there. 😂 Yeah, a water/dish soap solution would probably do the trick. I’ve used that for weather seal installations.
😂 They are really approachable cars to work on if you are remotely handy with a wrench. Start with the small stuff and work up, you’ll get to know the car inside and out before long. They will occasionally ask you for parts money until they’re well caught up on maintenance, but if you have time a some budget to work with, you’ll go far. Cheers!
Added clarity of language and images for reference to step 3 at 10:23. The bearing structure features a circlip on one side and a “spiro-lock” on the other side, which can be confused as some folks use the terms interchangeably.
Thanks! They are a bit more than the OEM ones, but are incredibly well-built and would likely outlast the life of the vehicle, where the OEM ones can continue to fail due to the plastic inserts, etc. It’s a trade off.
Repost with a few updated visuals and descriptions for additional clarity around Super Bearing structure.
Everyone: This video is great!
NC944er: Not enough detail. Redoing it. Hold my 4.6%ABV beverage with 7fl.oz. remaining.
@@laglord 🤣 That’s hilarious… and mostly true… to clarify, the beverage was 8.5%ABV. Cheers!
@@NC944er This is exactly the pedantry I came here for.
i love how you've calculated how many turns of the tool we're going to do. rubbing it in how annoying this part of the job is 😂
Well, I was curious! 😂 Clark’s Garage says it takes 1 million (jokingly I’m sure), but it turns out it’s far fewer than that. It really isn’t too bad, just don’t attempt it after “arm day” at the gym.
now this is an excellent tutorial
Thank you very much for this video. Tremendous value to the Porsche 944 community. You are very meticulous, everything is well thought out and clearly defined. I hope to follow your procedure when I rebuild my torque tube with these bearings that I purchased some time ago. Thanks again!
Awesome! The super bearings truly live up to their name, you won’t regret it. Let me know how it goes. Cheers!
Another excellent video. Something to 'look forward' to on mine.
Given enough time and miles, we all may have to “look forward” to this at some point. 😂
I love a well made tutorial! Will be useful if I ever own a Porsche 944😂
Danke für dieses sehr interessante Video.
Sehr gut gemacht.
@@dietmarsever9147 Ich freue mich, dass es Ihnen gefallen hat.
Brilliant video
Wow , thats involved !
That's an understatement!
My 1983 944 also has the aluminum support bracket at 1:50ish. Just thought I'd note that.
Nice! Yeah, a benefit of the early tubes is they lack the “dog ears,” so they don’t have to be turned 180° for removal, you can just pull them straight back and it won’t catch on the support bracket.
After having to do the timing belt, clutch, springs, control arms, door handles, dash lights and vacuum leaks on my 944 in the span of two years, finding out I might have to do this now because of crazy vibration around 2k rpm makes me want to just push the car into a lake.
Nooooo, don’t do it! 😂 That does sound frustrating though after all the work you’ve put in. I’ve been there a couple times with my car and had fleeting thoughts of selling it, but I’ve found that after taking a break from wrenching for a bit, if you can manage enough commitment to get back out there and remove just one or two bolts, before you know it the entire car is disassembled and you’re back in the game. Just think, by year 4 it’ll be perfect… maybe. Wishing you and your 944 the best, whichever direction you go.
Vibration around 2000 rpm sounds like an off time balance shaft!
amazing video as always. looking forward now to doing mine while its out of the car already!
Yes! The rebuild is a bit more fun than the removal process… and really makes a difference, the driveline is noticeably quieter and smoother on mine now.
@@NC944er ya I figured if it's already out might as well get it done. But wow, $900 for the bearings but I am sure it will be worth it.
@@smoothwood10 The price seems steep, but they are significantly engineered to last and provide better performance. 944Online has some factory style ones for about half that price…
@@NC944er thanks. I did see the ones on 944online. I have purchased most of my rebuild items from Ian. Not sure if I need the Super Bearings for a car that may only see 5000 miles a year.
@@smoothwood10 Yeah, I’d say probably not necessary… with the only advantage of the super bearings being “peace of mind” in never having to do the job again… ever.
Thanks NC944er for another excellent video. One question though, if reusing the original sleeves and bearing housings, do you recall which direction the rebuilt bearings should go back into the torque tube? Unfortunately I didn't pay attention during removal but I believe the shoulder side of the inner sleeve should be facing the clutch end of the tube.....at least it appears that way for bearing #1 at 6:19 min. of your video. If this is correct, do you recall whether the other 3 bearing inner sleeves should also be pointing in the direction of the clutch side? Thanks for any assistance.
Hey man, it sounds like your understanding is correct. That shot illustrates the bearing from the clutch end. The shoulder side of the bearing housing faces toward the transaxle end and the open side faces toward the clutch. The shoulder of the plastic insert faces toward the clutch as well. That way when the driveshaft is pressed into the tube from the clutch end, it doesn’t inadvertently push the inserts out of the bearing units. All the bearings should be installed facing the same orientation.
Thanks for the confirmation.
I used a large PVC pipe and a hydraulic ram to remove the bearings.
Nice! I image that saved some time…
Fantastic video, thank you! Question if you don't mind: any tricks to getting the top bolt on the slave cylinder side out? I have the starter out and slave cylinder pushed to the side but still can't seem to get to that bolt with anything
Hey man! I’m assuming you’re referring to the top bolts for the bell housing that are annoyingly crammed in with no space for tools? 😂 The slave cylinder side is a pain… I ended up breaking that one free from above after disconnecting the bracket for the crank sensors and the clamp for the starter wiring harness to create a path to the bolt. I used the closed end of a combination wrench on the bolt with the angled side facing towards the front of the car and then locked the closed end of a second combination wrench onto the open end of the first wrench, basically extending the length as a cheater bar. You should also be able to get a socket with a low profile/stubby ratchet onto that fitting and then a cheater pipe on top of that from above, if it’s a flex-head ratchet even better. Some people have had success from below the car using a socket and a universal joint, followed by a long extension (approximately 2 feet) and a ratchet. If you’re supporting the engine from below using a jack, you may be able to temporarily lower the jack a bit for the engine to drop down and make more space. Once the bolt was fully loosened, I wasn’t able to remove it from the bell housing because the bolt head was hitting the aluminum heat protector on the underside of the car, so I had to pry and wiggle the bell housing off with that bolt loosely hanging in the fitting. Making matters worse, the bell housing wouldn’t clear the clutch assembly because the rubber hose from the heater control valve was blocking the way, so I had to push the hose up into the engine bay using a ratchet extension with one hand while pulling the bell housing out and down with the other hand. What a mess… which is why I didn’t film it. 🤣 In retrospect, I probably could have bungee corded the rubber hose out of the way from above and that would have made things easier. Anyway, hopefully that’s the bolt you were referring to… if instead you meant the top bolt for the torque tube, I used a short combination wrench with a cheater attached. Let me know how it goes for you.
@@NC944er thank you very much for such a comprehensive answer! Will do my best with a couple of these tactics and let you know - really appreciate it.
@@HighOnFlying1 Yeah, sure thing! I have two sets of combination wrenches, one Husky and one Craftsman. The same size wrench on the Craftsman is about 2 inches shorter than the Husky, and those shorter ones can often fit in places where the longer ones can’t. Good luck! 👍🏼
Great video! I'm thinking this will be one of the projects I will have to confront on my 1987 924S. Would you happen to have the dimensions and material list for making the wooden torque tube holding fixture? I'm not great with woodworking skills! :)
Thanks! Given enough time and miles, we may all have to confront it. 😂 The wooden jig was constructed from four 8-foot 2x4s and a one pound box of 2.5-inch construction screws. I left the length at 8 feet and cut the center supports to 18 inches. The engine side was elevated about 7 inches from the ground so the tube length would be parallel to the ground. I used one of the longer transaxle flange mounting bolts to secure it on the other end.
Hi @NC944er, can you please share how much doeit cost for the super bearings from black sea R&D? While we are in there, what other parts could get upgraded, at this point I've no idea about health of clutch and it's associated components, gear shift lever and it's associated components, transaxle and its associated components. Last week installed new yellow koni dampers.
The Super Bearings are a little expensive, but very high quality. I paid $850 for the set of four. If your 944 is an NA car with the original rubber-centered clutch, it would be a good idea to replace that while you’re there, and if the clutch is removed, it also makes sense to resurface the flywheel, and if the flywheel is removed, it makes sense to go ahead and replace the rear crankshaft seal. There are a number of other associated parts that go along with all this such as needle bearings for the clutch fork pin, pilot bearing, guide tube, and so on. If there is any slop or play in the movement of the shift lever, this would be a good time to inspect those pieces for replacement. The shift linkage at the transaxle has some rubber bushings that wear out and the cylindrical pin on the metal shift lever can also develop wear over time.
Also, does the clutch kit for an 8V 944 be suitable for a 16V dohc engine on '87 944S? Asking because there is a different part number on the M44.40 engines catalogue for pressure plate. But repair kit seems to be the same.
@@Sivaprasad.t.g Yeah, the clutch kit will be the same - www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/94411691101.htm?pn=944-116-911-01-M38&bc=c&SVSVSI=0760
By any chance do you have a blueprint for the gig with measurements ?
Hey, sorry I do not have a plan, I just eyeballed it based upon the dimensions of the torque tube. The length of the base uses two 8-foot 2x4s. These are connected by four 18-inch 2x4s, two on each end. These are gapped by about 6 feet, leaving 2 feet of open extension on one end for the wall bracing. The raised support section for the clutch end of the torque tube is 7 inches in height.
I have a groaning noise coming from the rear (93k miles). Would you be more suspect of the wheel bearings vs the torque tube at this mileage?
Noises from the rear can be difficult to pinpoint. I’d say that’s pretty low mileage for either of those suspects, but not impossible. Does the noise change under any conditions like turning, accelerating, decelerating? If it changes when turning, I’d look at the wheel bearings and CV axles. The transaxles also give off a fair amount of whine, which can be worse with worn or damaged gears. Maybe change your gear oil if you haven’t done that, couldn’t hurt to see the difference. You could also put the car up on jack stands (safely) and run the drive train while you try to narrow down the location.
my problem is that torque rod destroyed pilot bearing to the point theres no pilot bearing housing left, im still trying to dissasemble rear end but all the bolts are either siezed or wont moowe at all
Oh man, yeah the hardware can get pretty crusty back there. I usually hammer them to knock them free of rust, hit them with penetrating oil, let them sit for a bit and, and finally apply a big breaker bar. Good luck!
By any chance do you have the torque specs for those 8 bolts to lower rear suspension. Porsche dialogue has me a little confused
@@JaredColetti This may help, check the bottom under “Rear Axle” - www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/TORQUESPEC.html
I wonder how many replaced bearings aren't in their proper place. If the torque tube had been designed split along its length and bolted together the whole process could have been much simpler with better results. Imagine removing the top half to access and replace the bearings and cleaning the 2 halves of the tube fully exposed. would save a lot of wrenching. I'm not an engineer so it's a silly idea.
only suggestion i would make is, instead of using regular wd40, use a silicone based lubricant instead. wd40 and other lubricants can be a little hard on rubber parts, while silicone is much safer
@@gotanksrox5331 Hey, thanks for sharing! I do appreciate your point. In this case, I was following the recommendation of the product manufacturer. My understanding is that the light application of WD-40 provides enough lubrication to easily slide the bearings into place, and then as they sit over 24 hours, some of the mineral spirits (solvents) in the WD-40 will evaporate and allow the bearings to “lock” into place, whereas a silicone lubricant would not evaporate. The manufacturer had concerns that the bearings may move during drive shaft installation, and that’s what they were trying to solve for.
@@NC944er that makes sense. i'd just hate to go through all that trouble of getting the bearings installed just to have them get eaten away by the wd40. maybe something like dish soap would work too?
@@gotanksrox5331 Totally agree, it’s a lot of work to get there. 😂 Yeah, a water/dish soap solution would probably do the trick. I’ve used that for weather seal installations.
Im starting to wonder if I should have bought my recent purchase of a 1987 924S ??🤔😳
😂 They are really approachable cars to work on if you are remotely handy with a wrench. Start with the small stuff and work up, you’ll get to know the car inside and out before long. They will occasionally ask you for parts money until they’re well caught up on maintenance, but if you have time a some budget to work with, you’ll go far. Cheers!
Is this video being rereleased for an error in the video?
Added clarity of language and images for reference to step 3 at 10:23. The bearing structure features a circlip on one side and a “spiro-lock” on the other side, which can be confused as some folks use the terms interchangeably.
LOL, nothing is ever easy when working on a 944!
great video as usual but oof almost $900 for those super bearings
Thanks! They are a bit more than the OEM ones, but are incredibly well-built and would likely outlast the life of the vehicle, where the OEM ones can continue to fail due to the plastic inserts, etc. It’s a trade off.
Will these bearings also fit the 928 torque tube?
@@ronnelson7828 Yes- they make bearings for the 928 and other porsche models.