I'm 185cm. I've sized up from a XC bike 18.5'' to a 21''. Big mistake. I miss terribly the agility of the old bike (and it was lighter too). I now ride with the constant feel that "I'm in the wrong bike". Too bad I now lack the 💰 re$ource$ to change bike again. Yes, I'm worse off financially than a few years ago, but also everything (parts, frames, bikes) in the bicycle world is sooo expensive it is kinda 😵 insane.
@@ipharI am 5ft 6in tall and my size in a 26'er mtb is 16 inch seat tube length , from bottom bracket centre . I have found the 14 inch one I also own , easy to mount and more "playful" or nimble . My 16" Trek 4300 , 2009 custom build can be seen at Fulcher's Cyclery , Panania , Australia , on Google images .
@gmbntech video idea, converting an enduro bike to a DH bike with DH forks and coil shock. Best of both worlds a DH bike you still have a range of gears. I want to do that to my capra.
@@ipharI am glad to have a selection of bicycles various sizes , to give different impressions . Which one I ride depends on where I am going and what ride / stability characteristics are appropriate .
I’m not a kid anymore so safety on the downhills is a priority, especially after an injury. When in between sizes, I go for the larger size. More stable downhill and better at most climbs
thank you 👍 i say this over and over again - but people don't realize - this twitchy and "playfull" bikes are unstable at speed - and even a helmet - will not protect you from being paralyzed in a wheelchair ✌ cycling is a serious thing and most people think it is just a toy 😂
@@bertkreft9689 riding a bike that is too large for you doesn’t allow you to properly weight the bike and leads to worse injuries than being on a bike you can maneuver your body on properly.
Last year I upgraded from my 25 year old Santa Cruz Heckler to a new Scott Spark. It was an online sale, so I didn't have a chance to ride first. I'm about the opposite of Owen, with short legs and long torso, at about 5'8" (172cm). Like Owen, it was between the small and medium. I eventually went with the medium, even though I felt that the old Santa Cruz had been too large for all these years. Admittedly, part of the decision was the medium frame having space for two bottle mounts. its been a year on the new Spark, and I'm pleased with the choice. For 'classic' sizing, I don't have any standover clearance, but the rest of the position has been fitting me very well. And I agree with the comments about it feeling relaxed, especially coming from an old 26" mtb with short wheelbase and steep head angle.
Nice one - Wife and I both 5'9. I ride most of the steeps at FoD and Staunton which you boys will love and know. I can't ride a medium because I have really gangly arms and find it a lot harder to place my weight on a shorter frame (I need a 460mm or longer), however, my wife prefers a medium because she's longer in the torso. Both of us have 29" inseam, so a 155mm - 160mm Goldix crank allows us to spin up for our next runs. She prefers a mullet setup, whereas I've been 29" for the last decade. With my apetite for steep tech, I'm quite happy with my large Giga and Rail 5, whereas she prefers a medium Mega/Remedy. The next bike we'll be getting will be an SL ebike, so it's likely to be a medium so that she can ride tech more confidently, which she won't be able to do with the Rail (being too stretched and too heavy). Can ride a medium and whip in the air, but please, keep your mullet wheels.
I just switched from an aggressive XC hardtail large to a full suspension. Although the manufacturer charts put me in a Large, the shop recommended I size down. Could not be happier. I can move around on the bike and am more confident on the bike. Don't even use a dropper anymore.
Good summary and good to hear some one recognise 'effective reach' due to bars. Bar width and angle has a considerable effect rather than the simplistic 'short stem = rad bike' marketing message so often used. I'm between M and L and have found that I enjoy the smaller size in general for the reasons you summarised (but I went up for my gravel bike).
Great Video! I think video's like this are worth their weight in gold.. When purchasing my first "Trail" bike last year, I was between sizes, and decided to size up as well. Happy pedaler here.
I’m 6’ tall with very short legs(29” inseam) and I ride a Trek which has a size called M/L, it fits me perfectly on my Roscoe(a hardtail), when I bought a Fuel EX(full suspension) my guy at my LBS had me take a large home then gave me a M/L to try because he said the reach measurement was different between the two. He was right to have me try the large as it was a much better fit overall even though it felt a little big at first, after a year on that bike I tried to ride a buddy’s M/L Fuel EX and could barely ride it…for me the reach measurement is paramount.
@@EmmanuelAlexis There is a huge reach difference in hardtail vs full sus. The hardtail could be perfect in size M/L for 5' 11 and L for full sus. Be carful since hardtail gets longer on the impact and full sus shorter hence the sizing difference. There is a youtuber 6' 3 tall, he rides 505 reach full sus and 465 hardtail.
@@EmmanuelAlexis I'm 5'11" with a 32.5" inseam and I ride a Large Fuel EXE. I ride mostly flat trails (Florida). Seated the bike is comfortable. Out of the saddle it feels a little long but the handlebars are a little too wide for me. I wear a 38" Reg jacket.
@@rustychain9518 I have always been a small in my bikes due to short inseam. When shopping for my latest the only fuel ex was a medium. Thought I would try it and found the fit much better than my small canyon spectral, though the seatpost does need to be slammed
I'm smack in the middle between most medium and large bikes. In my experience, it's always better to buy the larger bike and push the saddle forward and install a shorter stem than to buy the smaller bike and push the saddle back and install a longer stem. I always test ride the med and large bikes and I always find that the larger bike handles better. In my opinion, buy the largest bike you can get a good fit on, even if you have to install a 35mm stem and push the saddle all the way forward.
I’m between 5’10”-5’11” and often fall between size m and Lrg for most brands. My wingspan measures 6’2”, and I prioritize riding from a standing position and being able to be very dynamic on a bike (lots of bike body separation). I typically like a longer reach with a low stand over/short seat tube. So for me I would size up but need a stand over of around 700-740mm. And as I prefer leaning a bike to corner a hta around 64-65 degrees feels best. Any steeper than that and the bike tends to feel out of its league in every scenario. I’ve recently built up my own transition trans am from the frame up to get a nearly perfect fit and geo for my style.
I’m 5’11” and picked up my first full sus e-bike (GasGas). I usually ride a M/L with my hardtails, but opted for a longer chain stay and a bit more reach. Feels nice downhill, but it can also feel like a bit of a tank anywhere else. 😅
Similar length here (5'10",or 1,77m in Europe 😄), but in my case the inner leg length is relatively long, so I go very quickly with sth like an L-frame for leg reach and not reaching the end of my saddle post too quickly. But for my arm reach, I could use an M-frame - it has been like that since I ride MTB's some 30 yrs ago, no matter how the geometries evolved. RN I ride a Specialized Chisel Comp and am in the process of changing the 70mm stem to a shorter one, to make the reach slightly shorter. Still doubting with what amount and if I need to raise the steerer a bit too - getting older nowadays and a slightly more comfortable position on the bike is more than welcome😄!
@@ericgeldersif you have the option it would be possible to leave your forks stearer tube a bit longer, you could effectively “shorten” your reach. As you add spacers under your stem the hand position comes closer to you by way of the head tube angle. So the more spacers the shorter the effective reach. Though a down side to doing this would be losing front tire load/grip, as less weight will be on the front tire. Hope this finds you well.
The where I ride question is irrelevant for me personally because I ride so many different trails here in the States. Local trails are dry and rocky but the problem I have is our trails have changed over time. XC trails have become enduro trails. With the popularity of eBikes now they are still changing.
I'm between a M and an L, M for height and L for legs. I've always bought an L, but I decided to buy my last XC bike in size M. I found it much more comfortable than an L due to the more modern geometry, despite having to change the seatpost to a 400mm one.
In 2021 I bought a Specialized Enduro S2 Small because I’m 5ft 6.5in and ride a mix of XC and trail. At one point I second-guessed myself and thought maybe I should have sized up to S3 Medium because I wanted to do more enduro races. As time went on and I raced more enduro I became more comfortable and confident on the smaller frame, especially on the tighter technical enduro courses here in Pennsylvania. I feel like maybe a longer wheelbase would be nice in the faster sections but I appreciate the way the smaller frame handles.
I sized down once after buying a bike that was massively reduced in the sales. It handled terrible sketchy downhill, and climbing just put massive strain on my lower back. So I've taken fitment very seriously ever since. Get measured and get it right 👍
didn't want a gigantic ebike rented a 29" and hated it felt like a boat going up and down, so went from L to M 1st ride lots of fun but ruined my back for a week ! fixed it by buying a riser handlebar but that was work, if anyone else went low and had lower back pain don't bother with 30-50mm rises go straight to a spank 60mm or an ergotec 70mm it made a huge difference for me the handling will stay wild tough but after riding years with a 620mm bar I'm good everything else is easier
Canyon wasn't the best bike to use. People really need to test ride a bike and without any local dealers I don't recommend anyone trying to interpret the geo numbers. Way too many factors, especially when different wheel sizes are concerned. This video really didn't shed any new light on sizing up and down, still same answer: poppy, playful then size down; stable, balanced, then size up
Canyon offer more sizes than other brands and in my experience their sizing calculator is pretty good compared to Specialized for example which recommended me two sizes larger than Canyon. Canyon was spot on.
With the number of great bikes out there most of the time it's worth considering crossing a bike off your list of you're too in between sizes. Fit is everything when it comes to buying a bike.
When I first started mountain biking back in 1992 the guy who sold me a bike told me that I need four inches of clearance with my feet on the ground LOL. I ended up in the long run with two inches of clearance in all my bikes after that.
long story short measure your current saddle height and handlebar height, also learn your crank length as recent bikes have shorter cranks which means you will need to raise everything by roughly that difference -10mm crank +10mm saddle/handlebar height and only then compare to a 2024-25 bike reach is actually less important as I found myself with super raised dropper post (10cm above frame) with a max height handlebar under the saddle (lower back destroyer) and legs too bent it took me 2 days to understand it came from the shorter cranks
I am between a medium and a large. My last trail/enduro bike was a large Canyon Spectral in 27.5" which I fitted a 35mm stem to. My DH bike (27.5" Canyon Sender AL) is a large. I went with this because I like the stability of a longer wheelbase. I recently upgraded the Spectral for a medium Commencal Meta V5 and put a 50mm stem on. I downsized frame as I rode a mates Meta V4 in large and it was just felt too big. My medium V5 feels perfect. Still trying to get used to 29" wheels, but compared to the Spectral, I can feel the difference, just need to get back to a trail I have ridden the Spectral on previously to compare lap times.
Bought a new bike yesterday and this video would have been such a great help! I'm 1,85 (exactly between L and XL) and was just about to buy an Orbe Alma M30 for 1350$ (in an online store) just because it's such a good deal and i thought I was going to be fine with L. Fortunately, I went to a bikestore before buying it though and I there found out that (esecially with Orbea) XL is a much better fit for me! Came out with an Alma M20 for 1570$ (in XL) and a big smile :) Moral of the story: Dont buy smething that might fit just because its an extremely good offern and definetely do check out your local bike stores for at least comparable bikes!
It doesn't just depend on the measurements - it also depends on the bike and the intended use. I'm 6ft2 and most makes say I can ride L or XL. And that's true. I can happily ride either size. Size L is perfect for throwing around and XL is for a stable all rounder. And that's why I have a 27.5 in L and an XL 29er. Both great fun but one's better for jumping and tight stuff while the other is a great trail machine
One thing to keep in mind with Canyon mountain bikes is they run a half size bigger than other brands. I'm 6'2" and for most brands I'm either right between L and XL or at the bottom end of XL. On Canyon's size chart I'm right in middle of the L range. My wife is 5'6" and definitely a M in most brands, but very much S for Canyon and we're really glad we got her a small.
I have 3 mtb... a 2009 stumpjumper 19 inch a 2022 Scwinn Axum Large and a 2023 Epic Evo XL. The Stumpie feels twitchy now, the Schwinn stable but fun if rough. The Epic feels like the stumpie did 15 years ago... I am 6'3 and always sized down for better handling. With the epic, I sized up and the bike just works better.
Ive got an extra small gt richochet 12.5 inch frame 26er suposedly way too small for me at 5'8" feels great agile fun also got medium gt avalanche 29er correct size for me feels way too big even with a short stem
Thanks Owen, I've still been scoping out that Canyon you featured a few months ago, and falling squarely between two of the sizes on their fit chart. It never even occurred to me to compare its geometry chart with that of the bike I'm on now. I learned some things today... Cheers!
Pretty good overview Owen, given in pretty easy to understand way. I won't be buying a new bike anytime soon until the STA start to slacken back out, you just CAN'T engage your biggest muscle group when you're perched right over the BB like you are with the modern, stupid steep STA angles - if you want proof, look no further than the road, see what the steepest STA is on any road bike. While most brands do provide fairly decent geo info these days, including Reach & Stack, they leave out one VERY important metric when they state seattube angle, the height/measurement that it is taken at, Banshee Bikes and maybe a couple other state this, but most do not.
I don't have this luxury as I am 193cm and just need a big/long bike. I normally buy the largest frame (not seldomly XXL/long toptube), draw it in autoCAD to determine the stemlength, stackpack, rise of the handlebars. In general the majority of frame/bikebuilders are buidling frames with a size too small toptubes, fortunately Specialized /Sworks know what they are doing so thats what we have mainly in our garage. Point is that many other brands build a size smaller, meaning their XL is the size of an S5(L) with Specialized while I am in the need of an S6(XL). This really prevent me stepping to another brand like active 5, Zerode etc. All too small toptube. That would be a sacrifice I would hate every second riding the bike. My preference is long toptube 675mm or longer, very short stem (35mm) and 40mm rise at 800mm handlebars. Off course there is much more to it in terms of front center, reach, seattube angle etc, but first filter = toptube.
I found I like the Large size over the Xtra Large most companies say I should be on. I'm 6'2"/188cm tall and have long arms and legs. The L feels faster, stable and more nimble. The XL was stable and much harder to maneuver overall. I'm much happier with the new size which reinvigorated my love of riding. Test riding the same bike or brand in different sizes is a great way to find the right size.
Best way to size the bike is to use RAD (Rider Area Distance). I completely disregard manufacturers and shop sizing guidlines. I have mine within millimiters and it's spot on. It's night and day how the bike feels and rides. However, you can calculate nominal RAD using reach, stack and triangle calculator with 90 degress angle. Nominal RAD doas not include stem spacers, handlebar rise, backsweep, etc. I usually add stem lenght + 15mm to the nominal RAD when comparing bikes.
@@KevinT3141 Lee McCormack at Lee Likes Bikes has a complete book/series of website articles on RAD. He's a big advocate of it and an internationally respected MTB Coach.
@@psychonaut038 I went from S to M/L, because of RAD. I was riding too small bike. I don't care if the letter is S or M or L as long the bike fits me. No EGO riding.
doesn't work anymore geometry changed too much in recent years I aimed for rad and ended up on a clown bike >< yes my reach is good but everything else wasn't luckily i had another bike that needed upgrades had to change bar and dropper
In the road bike world they always say, if you're between sizes size down cos its easier to make a smaller bike bigger and generally it will be more comfortable! And in my own experience thats spot on true. In mtb I always used to buy the biggest bike (XL) but through the experience ive made with road bikes when I next buy a MTB I'll go for the size smaller (L) for the same reason. I guess tho at 6ft 2' ive got it easy if youre "average" height its a lot more difficult. The biggest part of it is, as Owen states, how do we and where do we ride our bikes.
I've pretty much always been on a medium, just now I'm at the tail end of a medium. I could have gone to a large in the 2014-2019 sizes (450 reach) but nowadays that plants me back in a medium. It just feels right. I do like 29er front and rear and my Process 153 really feels like a great balance of geometry, for a fun all around rig (435 stays, 455 reach). I do wish it had a taller stack (has 95mil headtube length), but I've "fixed" that with a high rise bar. That coupled with it being a beefcake of a frame means you can ride such a wide variety of terrain. But my priority is fun on the downhills, and I build them as such :)
II test road the M/L, L and XL Fuel EX. All fit but the L fit best. Just right. Then flipping the chip quickened the steering for our East coast tight woods. Another benefit was slightly higher BB. Bar cut to 740mm fits through the trees and reduced the reach.
The environment and terrain you're riding also matters in your sizing choices. I live in a tropical rainforest where it's mostly super narrow single track with dense overgrown vegetation. Lot's of slow speed technical stuff and really tight nasty switchbacks. Not much in the way of those big, smooth, well-manicured bike parks around this part of the world. I am often in between sizes, and I personally find sizing down is always the better option. In fact, I've been more inclined towards bikes with shorter reaches and steeper head angles, contrary to what the direction the industry is pushing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of riders that take too much influence from western influencers who ride in completely different environments, ending up with these ultra long, ultra slack bikes that just aren't optimal for our trails.
same reason in swiss alps small pedestrian hiking trails barely width of handlebar no speed super technical i went smaller I also have to lift and move the bike a lot to go across fallen trees etc
I am 5'9 recently. I purchased a large bike, and I feel comfortable riding. It could be related to the fact that the frame is a few years older and geometry is less travel
Interesting that you move the saddle forward a lot. I have also long legs an do the same on a comparable bike from Cube to find the optimal balance for (steep) uphills. This basically means that the seat tube angle is to steep if the seat tube is extended a lot.
The modern frame sizing is so much different than decades ago. I just can't make the jump to a large frame they feel weird even though modern setups says thats what I should be on. What's really changed for me is the seat tube angles. For using geometry you need to the geometry of a bike you currently enjoy riding so you can compare it to a new bike.
I'm 5' 11", 32" leg. My Whyte T130 is a Large that I've shortened the stem on as I felt I was being pulled over the bars on a lot of steep stuff. I considered a Medium as my next purchase. I've demoed the new 23/24 Whyte Ebikes, E150 and E160 in Large, E180 and E140 in XL. Both the Large bikes gave me lower back ache and I didn't feel confident on them ( DHF doesn't help on both of these ) The XL's fitted perfectly from the moment I sat on them and I've probably never ridden a bike quicker than I did on the 180. I'm very confused as to what size I would need for my next bike but I know I have to demo it not just blindly buy.
Bike sizing is so complicated.. I always try to match my reach when I buy a new bike but styles of bikes seem to make reach different on different sizes. What I mean is an XC bike might have the same reach in an XL as my trail bike does in a L.. but then the other measurements have to be taken into account and I think unless you are some sort of high functioning math scientist, it's hard to know exactly what you need until you get out on the trail. There are so many things you can change... crank length, stem length, seat height, seat angle, bar width..etc How is anyone ever suppose to know exactly what to change to get that little strain out of your back after a hard day of riding... ugh...
Im 5'8 got a small cube stereo 120r i prefere it to my medium trek top fuel and medium gt avalanche being between sizes sucks but like having more seat post exposed agile twitchy shifting body weight around and when riding flater tracks not being too streched out is great
As a taller 6'3" person, I found that too short of a top tube length would make me more prone to going over the bars on steep descents and drop-offs. Not a good thing.
Im glad you acknowledged the fact that reach is affecting by stack. Many people underestimate this. As im also a roadie, i do think they underestimate the effect of the wheelbase on decending ability, ive found longer wheelbases create horrible understeer.
I've had various bikes with a reach of between 430mm and 515mm over the last 12 years, I can say that the 595mm reach of my nukeproof mega 290 2023 is the best fitting bike for my 187cm height and 32" inseam
I sit right in between medium and large on most companies bikes. And at one point a really good deal came up and I bought a large I kind of hated the way it rode it was always stuck to the ground and really stable which if I was somewhere very Steep and very fast all the time I would love but in the tight technical relatively flowing Trails I ride most I prefer medium and ended up getting a different bike. I still use the numbers I learned from those two frames to guide me moving forward
What are your opinions on sizing down/up on larger frames when wheel sizes and geometry don't change? For example, a Medium to Large or Large to X-Large. Both 29" wheels, same geometry, less variables that change in general.
If you used to ride BMX size down. Came from moto size up. Tight trails size down, Steep down trails size up. Ones companies Sm is another's MD or LG. Gt fury 16 alloy LG was bigger than most XXL and the LG spesh I came off of matched up closest to the small GT
It's interesting how some brands have different wheel sizes on their smaller frames, while others don't. Norco is one such brand. They have 29 wheels on all their sizes, even their small. Even though they have short stays and the 29 wheels are bike, then the frame itself. I would know since my bike is like this. Just gose to show, to do your research before buying.
I'm 175cm and between S and M on a lot of bike size calcs. I used to pick M, but then tried sizing down to S. It feels significantly better, I feel more comfortable and relaxed and more in control, like I'm riding the bike rather than just being along for the ride. It's slightly more twitchy and unstable ride though. Also it's a plus that the bike is slightly smaller to move around and has slightly less weight. I think a downside is that it's probably more difficult to resell compared to size M and L.
At 5’4" and 31" inseam I often size up. The Fuel EX I’m on now is a medium because the super steep seat tube angle comes at the expense of top tube length. My knees with pads on sometimes hit my grips,on steep,uphill switchbacks so the small at about 3cm shorter top tube was a no go. I also have a Fairbike offset post head to put my saddle further back along with a 32mm stem. It’s comfortable for me. But it’s complicated this fit thing. The marketing often tries to present blanket statements about seat tube angle or head angle as this angle is better for everyone. But that’s often just bs to encourage spending. Then one spends big bucks and the confirmation bias kicks in.
Your Fuel EX would climb better with more weight on the front wheel . I would use a 50 millimetre offset stem and displace the saddle forward by a third of this amount to correct your reach to allow for shin pad clearance , and so called "comfortable setup" .
@ How do you know that without seeing how my bike fits me? No one needs weight on the front wheel climbing as much as you need weight ahead of the rear contact patch. If I’m riding up steep slopes, 25 - 30% I’m pulling back on the bars. Not pushing down. What a longer stem used to do with old bikes was put one’s body into a better climbing position. The weight on the front wheel statement we used to believe is sort of a myth. Longer rear ends climb better.
@@andyeunson270 The "super steep seat tube angle" must be related to the small Fuel EX . The knee pad rubbing the hand grips on very steep sections has no solution in your case . Being comfortable has no correlation to knee encroachment to the bars . It is a trade off . The only golden answer would be a custom artisan frame to build around due to your proportion of build . I have ridden custom mtb frames and still do at 5ft 6in tall .
@@andyeunson270 Your statement about stem length is still up for debate based on all input from other subscribers here . Riding style and habits comes into it too . I have seen some riders pull back as you do and others lean over the bars slightly on those steep climbs . The adhesion is adequate at the front wheel in both cases , I have experimented and so has a lady enduro rider I sponsor .
You've got the chapter names wrong on the video timeline. You've got: Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing down. Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing down. Should be: Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing up. Pros of sizing down. Cons of sizing down. I know I'm being nitpicky, but I'm interested in this topic and wanted to jump straight to what you thought about the advice other channels sometimes give about sizing down, and.... got confused.
I picked up a 2014 Stumpjumper EVO Expert (for $150!) and although it is L, I swear it feels very much the same size as my more modern Slade Trail and Giant Trance, both M. Bikes have definitely got bigger.
Very good episode...i guess it depends on how someone is riding as to what size would be best...bikes remind me of guitars..fitting them to a person's liking...basically you have the standard measurement and everything around that is customizable...i do like the look of Owen's bike...and maybe a small to medium would be suitable for me,.iam having trouble deciding what tire tread, width and hardness is best for me,🤔🚲❣️
Great spot! The bag is the - Canyon Framebag Long Bracket it mounts to the two bolts on the upper section of the down tube - I've managed to squeeze in two TPU tubes into the bag - but you could fit - a TPU tube and a multitool - its great! Cheers Owen
Dudes, if you buy a bike, you should try it first. Different bikes can feel very differently. I personally would not buy a bike online anymore. Good bikeshops will have test bikes. Or you rent a bike for a day or two. I think it's worth it.
Agreed. I bought my last bike without riding and it just doesn’t feel quite right. I’m 5’8” on a medium. I’ll never buy a bike again without trying it on the trail first
If you watch any of my videos you'll see me on a size large Specialized turbo Vado , im 6 foot 3 , i also have a extra large and fit on it as well , my sisters med ebike is not a bad fit for me either , so you really need to test ride different sizes and make a informed choice 😊
@@alindberg8001 Yeah, that helps a bit. As do riser bars. Bike companies should leave the fork steerer's uncut and let the bike shop do it. Or at least leave enough tube for a few spacers.
You should redo this with a different brand that has the same size wheels between sizes.Canyon sizing is also different than the rest of the industry. Maybe try Propain? Too many variables with the Canyon….
My Grandmother was a very bad and nervous driver- she liked as big a car as possible, and with as soft and isolating a suspension as possible. Grandfather was a petrolhead; small, light, and maneuverable was his fun. Who are you guys selling to???
Sizing down means more seatpost extension out of the frame. This creates the unfortunate affect of putting your arse in the air like an 80's cross country racer.
Great spot! The bag is the - Canyon Framebag Long Bracket it mounts to the two bolts on the upper section of the down tube - I've managed to squeeze in two TPU tubes into the bag - but you could fit - a TPU tube and a multitool - its great! Again good eyes! Cheers Owen
Great that you know what you'd like but be aware not all XL frames are created equally so could size up differently - and some brands now offer XXL's too! Cheers Owen
Why in the world would you choose a bike with different wheel sizes? Wheel size is a valid point to discuss, but it complicates (and distracts from, imo) the main topic of the video.
Thanks for your insights - agreed the wheel size change does add an extra dimension to the which bike size discussion - Canyon and other brands utilise different wheels on different sizes - so I had to discuss the wheel size as when I switched up from the small to a medium the wheel size changed - again note that it adds another element to the size debate but I feel I'm not alone in being between frame sizes and then wheel sizes too. Cheers Owen
6ft long legs 2016 AM/XC 27.5 size L always found it too large handlebar too long seat comically and dangerously high, bought an ebike 2024 27.5 size M knowing it would be too small and it was if you don't want to start dismantling your new bike follow manufacturer recommendations as oem my back was ruined on the 1st ride because my bar was lower than my extremely raised saddle, I had to buy a riser handlebar and get a longer 180mm dropper to have more up down margin I wish I could have taken 210mm but frame can't fit it (removed parts became upgrades for my muscular 2016 I knew that was a possible outcome) stack will be your biggest problem if you go lower rising or lowering the saddle is easy if you raise the stem it'll modify your reach too, as the reach recommended for my 6ft is the reach I have stock I bought a riser just elevation the bar nothing else, bottom line unless you have another bike to upgrade money for new parts and the time and skill to start swapping a dropper handlebar and or stem stick to the recommended sizes ;) I tought I was good but then I learned about shorter cranks and now...I have to raise everything again for 155mm cranks (10mm margin before a pedal strike and easier to cadence which is what ebikes want anyway) so I bought a 70mm riser ebikes are for fun anyway who cares if I look like a bmx
Thanks Owen. Follow up question in regards to reach. #ASKGMBNTECH Do manufacturer reach measurements take into account the stem they are using and handlebar rotation set to zero/neutral?
After a decade of longer slacker geo is OUT OF CONTROL right now. If you are sizing up you’re gonna look like a kid on an adult bike. Recommended size or sizing down is the only option if you care to actually steer your bike.
Thanks for your insights - your right there has been some big changes in bike geometry - mostly for the better but the slacker geometry has settled - and hopefully you got the overall message from the video is to say you do need to do the research on which frame dimensions you need - alas its not as simple as size up or size down. Again thanks for your insights. Cheers Owen
You didnt mention the obvious size and we9gjt difference of 29 over 27.5 and climbing having that what 500 ish grams of extra rubber and wheel to drag up the hill doesn't I think make it easyier to climb a hill. If it's grip u want try a new tyre. I prefer 27.5 as 29 seems huge and heavy. I only got a 29 gravel. Also got a 27.5 mullet and a 27.5 that was a 29 before but I could switch it so tried it and yeah well better so I seen it all. Weight is everything. And u didn't touch on that. It's OK understand your trying to pls the industry. 27.5 is better cornering and handling. I think matters more than any other benefits they try and sell you like it rolls better over bumps or g9ves better grip climbing yeah they don't tell you your be having to work harder to climb that hill with 29 on it so your need that extra grip they try and sell u on. 27.5 is my fav akd I'm a bike nut man. Check.my channel and bikes your see the most gorgous 27.5 ya ever seen ha ha p.s. 10 speed is my fav too. 11 max but I give the thumbs down for 12. I mean why. Ha
Interesting that you move the saddle forward a lot. I have also long legs an do the same on a comparable bike from Cube to find the optimal balance for (steep) uphills. This basically means that the seat tube angle is to steep if the seat tube is extended a lot.
Have you sized up or sized down? Or did you fit perfectly in a size?
I'm 185cm. I've sized up from a XC bike 18.5'' to a 21''. Big mistake. I miss terribly the agility of the old bike (and it was lighter too). I now ride with the constant feel that "I'm in the wrong bike". Too bad I now lack the 💰 re$ource$ to change bike again. Yes, I'm worse off financially than a few years ago, but also everything (parts, frames, bikes) in the bicycle world is sooo expensive it is kinda 😵 insane.
@@ipharI am 5ft 6in tall and my size in a 26'er mtb is 16 inch seat tube length , from bottom bracket centre . I have found the 14 inch one I also own , easy to mount and more "playful" or nimble . My 16" Trek 4300 , 2009 custom build can be seen at Fulcher's Cyclery , Panania , Australia , on Google images .
I sized down after I used RAD. The smaller bike fits much better than my old one.
@gmbntech video idea, converting an enduro bike to a DH bike with DH forks and coil shock. Best of both worlds a DH bike you still have a range of gears. I want to do that to my capra.
@@ipharI am glad to have a selection of bicycles various sizes , to give different impressions . Which one I ride depends on where I am going and what ride / stability characteristics are appropriate .
I’m not a kid anymore so safety on the downhills is a priority, especially after an injury. When in between sizes, I go for the larger size. More stable downhill and better at most climbs
thank you 👍
i say this over and over again - but people don't realize - this twitchy and "playfull" bikes are unstable at speed - and even a helmet - will not protect you from being paralyzed in a wheelchair ✌
cycling is a serious thing and most people think it is just a toy 😂
@@bertkreft9689I think the "paralysis" , point you make is a generalisation that may not hold true with shorter riders .
@@bertkreft9689"cycling is a serious thing" - you sound fun to ride with
@@EdFormer you sure are not
@@bertkreft9689 riding a bike that is too large for you doesn’t allow you to properly weight the bike and leads to worse injuries than being on a bike you can maneuver your body on properly.
Extremely good job covering a broad range of factors. Lots of viewers will watch this multiple times.
Thank you - much appreciated!
Cheers
Owen
Last year I upgraded from my 25 year old Santa Cruz Heckler to a new Scott Spark. It was an online sale, so I didn't have a chance to ride first. I'm about the opposite of Owen, with short legs and long torso, at about 5'8" (172cm). Like Owen, it was between the small and medium. I eventually went with the medium, even though I felt that the old Santa Cruz had been too large for all these years. Admittedly, part of the decision was the medium frame having space for two bottle mounts. its been a year on the new Spark, and I'm pleased with the choice. For 'classic' sizing, I don't have any standover clearance, but the rest of the position has been fitting me very well. And I agree with the comments about it feeling relaxed, especially coming from an old 26" mtb with short wheelbase and steep head angle.
Nice one - Wife and I both 5'9. I ride most of the steeps at FoD and Staunton which you boys will love and know. I can't ride a medium because I have really gangly arms and find it a lot harder to place my weight on a shorter frame (I need a 460mm or longer), however, my wife prefers a medium because she's longer in the torso. Both of us have 29" inseam, so a 155mm - 160mm Goldix crank allows us to spin up for our next runs. She prefers a mullet setup, whereas I've been 29" for the last decade. With my apetite for steep tech, I'm quite happy with my large Giga and Rail 5, whereas she prefers a medium Mega/Remedy. The next bike we'll be getting will be an SL ebike, so it's likely to be a medium so that she can ride tech more confidently, which she won't be able to do with the Rail (being too stretched and too heavy). Can ride a medium and whip in the air, but please, keep your mullet wheels.
I just switched from an aggressive XC hardtail large to a full suspension. Although the manufacturer charts put me in a Large, the shop recommended I size down. Could not be happier. I can move around on the bike and am more confident on the bike. Don't even use a dropper anymore.
Good summary and good to hear some one recognise 'effective reach' due to bars. Bar width and angle has a considerable effect rather than the simplistic 'short stem = rad bike' marketing message so often used. I'm between M and L and have found that I enjoy the smaller size in general for the reasons you summarised (but I went up for my gravel bike).
Great Video! I think video's like this are worth their weight in gold.. When purchasing my first "Trail" bike last year, I was between sizes, and decided to size up as well. Happy pedaler here.
Thank you - glad it was helpful!
Cheers
Owen
I’m 6’ tall with very short legs(29” inseam) and I ride a Trek which has a size called M/L, it fits me perfectly on my Roscoe(a hardtail), when I bought a Fuel EX(full suspension) my guy at my LBS had me take a large home then gave me a M/L to try because he said the reach measurement was different between the two. He was right to have me try the large as it was a much better fit overall even though it felt a little big at first, after a year on that bike I tried to ride a buddy’s M/L Fuel EX and could barely ride it…for me the reach measurement is paramount.
I was set on buying an M/L given that I’m 5’11” and my inseam is 33” but after reading your comment I might consider the L size better (Fuel EX).
@ It felt like a tank at first compared to my Roscoe but I’m at one with the bike now and I’m glad I got the large.
@@EmmanuelAlexis There is a huge reach difference in hardtail vs full sus. The hardtail could be perfect in size M/L for 5' 11 and L for full sus. Be carful since hardtail gets longer on the impact and full sus shorter hence the sizing difference. There is a youtuber 6' 3 tall, he rides 505 reach full sus and 465 hardtail.
@@EmmanuelAlexis I'm 5'11" with a 32.5" inseam and I ride a Large Fuel EXE. I ride mostly flat trails (Florida). Seated the bike is comfortable. Out of the saddle it feels a little long but the handlebars are a little too wide for me. I wear a 38" Reg jacket.
@@rustychain9518 I have always been a small in my bikes due to short inseam. When shopping for my latest the only fuel ex was a medium. Thought I would try it and found the fit much better than my small canyon spectral, though the seatpost does need to be slammed
I'm smack in the middle between most medium and large bikes. In my experience, it's always better to buy the larger bike and push the saddle forward and install a shorter stem than to buy the smaller bike and push the saddle back and install a longer stem. I always test ride the med and large bikes and I always find that the larger bike handles better. In my opinion, buy the largest bike you can get a good fit on, even if you have to install a 35mm stem and push the saddle all the way forward.
I’m between 5’10”-5’11” and often fall between size m and Lrg for most brands. My wingspan measures 6’2”, and I prioritize riding from a standing position and being able to be very dynamic on a bike (lots of bike body separation). I typically like a longer reach with a low stand over/short seat tube. So for me I would size up but need a stand over of around 700-740mm. And as I prefer leaning a bike to corner a hta around 64-65 degrees feels best. Any steeper than that and the bike tends to feel out of its league in every scenario. I’ve recently built up my own transition trans am from the frame up to get a nearly perfect fit and geo for my style.
I’m 5’11” and picked up my first full sus e-bike (GasGas). I usually ride a M/L with my hardtails, but opted for a longer chain stay and a bit more reach.
Feels nice downhill, but it can also feel like a bit of a tank anywhere else. 😅
Similar length here (5'10",or 1,77m in Europe 😄), but in my case the inner leg length is relatively long, so I go very quickly with sth like an L-frame for leg reach and not reaching the end of my saddle post too quickly. But for my arm reach, I could use an M-frame - it has been like that since I ride MTB's some 30 yrs ago, no matter how the geometries evolved. RN I ride a Specialized Chisel Comp and am in the process of changing the 70mm stem to a shorter one, to make the reach slightly shorter. Still doubting with what amount and if I need to raise the steerer a bit too - getting older nowadays and a slightly more comfortable position on the bike is more than welcome😄!
@@ericgeldersif you have the option it would be possible to leave your forks stearer tube a bit longer, you could effectively “shorten” your reach. As you add spacers under your stem the hand position comes closer to you by way of the head tube angle. So the more spacers the shorter the effective reach. Though a down side to doing this would be losing front tire load/grip, as less weight will be on the front tire. Hope this finds you well.
The where I ride question is irrelevant for me personally because I ride so many different trails here in the States. Local trails are dry and rocky but the problem I have is our trails have changed over time. XC trails have become enduro trails. With the popularity of eBikes now they are still changing.
I'm between a M and an L, M for height and L for legs. I've always bought an L, but I decided to buy my last XC bike in size M. I found it much more comfortable than an L due to the more modern geometry, despite having to change the seatpost to a 400mm one.
In 2021 I bought a Specialized Enduro S2 Small because I’m 5ft 6.5in and ride a mix of XC and trail. At one point I second-guessed myself and thought maybe I should have sized up to S3 Medium because I wanted to do more enduro races. As time went on and I raced more enduro I became more comfortable and confident on the smaller frame, especially on the tighter technical enduro courses here in Pennsylvania. I feel like maybe a longer wheelbase would be nice in the faster sections but I appreciate the way the smaller frame handles.
I sized down once after buying a bike that was massively reduced in the sales. It handled terrible sketchy downhill, and climbing just put massive strain on my lower back. So I've taken fitment very seriously ever since. Get measured and get it right 👍
didn't want a gigantic ebike rented a 29" and hated it felt like a boat going up and down, so went from L to M 1st ride lots of fun but ruined my back for a week ! fixed it by buying a riser handlebar but that was work, if anyone else went low and had lower back pain don't bother with 30-50mm rises go straight to a spank 60mm or an ergotec 70mm it made a huge difference for me the handling will stay wild tough but after riding years with a 620mm bar I'm good everything else is easier
Canyon wasn't the best bike to use. People really need to test ride a bike and without any local dealers I don't recommend anyone trying to interpret the geo numbers. Way too many factors, especially when different wheel sizes are concerned. This video really didn't shed any new light on sizing up and down, still same answer: poppy, playful then size down; stable, balanced, then size up
Canyon offer more sizes than other brands and in my experience their sizing calculator is pretty good compared to Specialized for example which recommended me two sizes larger than Canyon. Canyon was spot on.
With the number of great bikes out there most of the time it's worth considering crossing a bike off your list of you're too in between sizes. Fit is everything when it comes to buying a bike.
When I first started mountain biking back in 1992 the guy who sold me a bike told me that I need four inches of clearance with my feet on the ground LOL. I ended up in the long run with two inches of clearance in all my bikes after that.
Very good of you to mention that reach is only useful when including stack.
covered things very well, for me, if my knees hit the bars while pedaling standing up, I went the next size up.
Really great video! Its my favourite from you so far! Very useful. I think I will size down with my new bike.
I PUT SLIGHTLY SHORTER CRANK PEDDLE ARM ON THE LEFT WITH TOE CLIP ,, IT WAS A GAME CHANGER ON THE PEDDLING POWER ☝🏼 & I HAVE NO IDEA WHY
long story short measure your current saddle height and handlebar height, also learn your crank length as recent bikes have shorter cranks which means you will need to raise everything by roughly that difference -10mm crank +10mm saddle/handlebar height and only then compare to a 2024-25 bike reach is actually less important as I found myself with super raised dropper post (10cm above frame) with a max height handlebar under the saddle (lower back destroyer) and legs too bent it took me 2 days to understand it came from the shorter cranks
I am between a medium and a large. My last trail/enduro bike was a large Canyon Spectral in 27.5" which I fitted a 35mm stem to. My DH bike (27.5" Canyon Sender AL) is a large. I went with this because I like the stability of a longer wheelbase. I recently upgraded the Spectral for a medium Commencal Meta V5 and put a 50mm stem on. I downsized frame as I rode a mates Meta V4 in large and it was just felt too big. My medium V5 feels perfect. Still trying to get used to 29" wheels, but compared to the Spectral, I can feel the difference, just need to get back to a trail I have ridden the Spectral on previously to compare lap times.
Bought a new bike yesterday and this video would have been such a great help! I'm 1,85 (exactly between L and XL) and was just about to buy an Orbe Alma M30 for 1350$ (in an online store) just because it's such a good deal and i thought I was going to be fine with L. Fortunately, I went to a bikestore before buying it though and I there found out that (esecially with Orbea) XL is a much better fit for me! Came out with an Alma M20 for 1570$ (in XL) and a big smile :)
Moral of the story: Dont buy smething that might fit just because its an extremely good offern and definetely do check out your local bike stores for at least comparable bikes!
It's a good job you did check! Have you taken it out for a ride yet?
It doesn't just depend on the measurements - it also depends on the bike and the intended use. I'm 6ft2 and most makes say I can ride L or XL. And that's true. I can happily ride either size.
Size L is perfect for throwing around and XL is for a stable all rounder. And that's why I have a 27.5 in L and an XL 29er. Both great fun but one's better for jumping and tight stuff while the other is a great trail machine
One thing to keep in mind with Canyon mountain bikes is they run a half size bigger than other brands. I'm 6'2" and for most brands I'm either right between L and XL or at the bottom end of XL. On Canyon's size chart I'm right in middle of the L range. My wife is 5'6" and definitely a M in most brands, but very much S for Canyon and we're really glad we got her a small.
I have 3 mtb... a 2009 stumpjumper 19 inch a 2022 Scwinn Axum Large and a 2023 Epic Evo XL.
The Stumpie feels twitchy now, the Schwinn stable but fun if rough.
The Epic feels like the stumpie did 15 years ago...
I am 6'3 and always sized down for better handling. With the epic, I sized up and the bike just works better.
Ive got an extra small gt richochet 12.5 inch frame 26er suposedly way too small for me at 5'8" feels great agile fun also got medium gt avalanche 29er correct size for me feels way too big even with a short stem
Thanks Owen, I've still been scoping out that Canyon you featured a few months ago, and falling squarely between two of the sizes on their fit chart. It never even occurred to me to compare its geometry chart with that of the bike I'm on now. I learned some things today... Cheers!
Also, great production on this video, and your confidence in front of the camera has really grown. Great to see you out there shredding it!
That was the most useful and comprehensible video. Thank you.
Great to hear - thank you!
Cheers
Owen
Pretty good overview Owen, given in pretty easy to understand way. I won't be buying a new bike anytime soon until the STA start to slacken back out, you just CAN'T engage your biggest muscle group when you're perched right over the BB like you are with the modern, stupid steep STA angles - if you want proof, look no further than the road, see what the steepest STA is on any road bike.
While most brands do provide fairly decent geo info these days, including Reach & Stack, they leave out one VERY important metric when they state seattube angle, the height/measurement that it is taken at, Banshee Bikes and maybe a couple other state this, but most do not.
I don't have this luxury as I am 193cm and just need a big/long bike. I normally buy the largest frame (not seldomly XXL/long toptube), draw it in autoCAD to determine the stemlength, stackpack, rise of the handlebars. In general the majority of frame/bikebuilders are buidling frames with a size too small toptubes, fortunately Specialized /Sworks know what they are doing so thats what we have mainly in our garage. Point is that many other brands build a size smaller, meaning their XL is the size of an S5(L) with Specialized while I am in the need of an S6(XL). This really prevent me stepping to another brand like active 5, Zerode etc. All too small toptube. That would be a sacrifice I would hate every second riding the bike. My preference is long toptube 675mm or longer, very short stem (35mm) and 40mm rise at 800mm handlebars. Off course there is much more to it in terms of front center, reach, seattube angle etc, but first filter = toptube.
I found I like the Large size over the Xtra Large most companies say I should be on. I'm 6'2"/188cm tall and have long arms and legs. The L feels faster, stable and more nimble. The XL was stable and much harder to maneuver overall. I'm much happier with the new size which reinvigorated my love of riding. Test riding the same bike or brand in different sizes is a great way to find the right size.
Best way to size the bike is to use RAD (Rider Area Distance). I completely disregard manufacturers and shop sizing guidlines. I have mine within millimiters and it's spot on. It's night and day how the bike feels and rides. However, you can calculate nominal RAD using reach, stack and triangle calculator with 90 degress angle. Nominal RAD doas not include stem spacers, handlebar rise, backsweep, etc. I usually add stem lenght + 15mm to the nominal RAD when comparing bikes.
Interesting, never heard that term before. May be a new GMBN video topic in there...
@@KevinT3141 Lee McCormack at Lee Likes Bikes has a complete book/series of website articles on RAD. He's a big advocate of it and an internationally respected MTB Coach.
Rad is BS. They will put me on a small bike. I won't ride small bikes.
I had an L an now a M. Not going S.
@@psychonaut038 I went from S to M/L, because of RAD. I was riding too small bike. I don't care if the letter is S or M or L as long the bike fits me. No EGO riding.
doesn't work anymore geometry changed too much in recent years I aimed for rad and ended up on a clown bike >< yes my reach is good but everything else wasn't luckily i had another bike that needed upgrades had to change bar and dropper
In the road bike world they always say, if you're between sizes size down cos its easier to make a smaller bike bigger and generally it will be more comfortable! And in my own experience thats spot on true. In mtb I always used to buy the biggest bike (XL) but through the experience ive made with road bikes when I next buy a MTB I'll go for the size smaller (L) for the same reason. I guess tho at 6ft 2' ive got it easy if youre "average" height its a lot more difficult. The biggest part of it is, as Owen states, how do we and where do we ride our bikes.
I've pretty much always been on a medium, just now I'm at the tail end of a medium. I could have gone to a large in the 2014-2019 sizes (450 reach) but nowadays that plants me back in a medium. It just feels right. I do like 29er front and rear and my Process 153 really feels like a great balance of geometry, for a fun all around rig (435 stays, 455 reach). I do wish it had a taller stack (has 95mil headtube length), but I've "fixed" that with a high rise bar. That coupled with it being a beefcake of a frame means you can ride such a wide variety of terrain. But my priority is fun on the downhills, and I build them as such :)
II test road the M/L, L and XL Fuel EX. All fit but the L fit best. Just right. Then flipping the chip quickened the steering for our East coast tight woods. Another benefit was slightly higher BB. Bar cut to 740mm fits through the trees and reduced the reach.
The environment and terrain you're riding also matters in your sizing choices. I live in a tropical rainforest where it's mostly super narrow single track with dense overgrown vegetation. Lot's of slow speed technical stuff and really tight nasty switchbacks. Not much in the way of those big, smooth, well-manicured bike parks around this part of the world. I am often in between sizes, and I personally find sizing down is always the better option. In fact, I've been more inclined towards bikes with shorter reaches and steeper head angles, contrary to what the direction the industry is pushing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of riders that take too much influence from western influencers who ride in completely different environments, ending up with these ultra long, ultra slack bikes that just aren't optimal for our trails.
same reason in swiss alps small pedestrian hiking trails barely width of handlebar no speed super technical i went smaller I also have to lift and move the bike a lot to go across fallen trees etc
I am 5'9 recently. I purchased a large bike, and I feel comfortable riding. It could be related to the fact that the frame is a few years older and geometry is less travel
Interesting that you move the saddle forward a lot. I have also long legs an do the same on a comparable bike from Cube to find the optimal balance for (steep) uphills. This basically means that the seat tube angle is to steep if the seat tube is extended a lot.
The modern frame sizing is so much different than decades ago. I just can't make the jump to a large frame they feel weird even though modern setups says thats what I should be on. What's really changed for me is the seat tube angles.
For using geometry you need to the geometry of a bike you currently enjoy riding so you can compare it to a new bike.
I'm 5' 11", 32" leg. My Whyte T130 is a Large that I've shortened the stem on as I felt I was being pulled over the bars on a lot of steep stuff. I considered a Medium as my next purchase.
I've demoed the new 23/24 Whyte Ebikes, E150 and E160 in Large, E180 and E140 in XL.
Both the Large bikes gave me lower back ache and I didn't feel confident on them ( DHF doesn't help on both of these )
The XL's fitted perfectly from the moment I sat on them and I've probably never ridden a bike quicker than I did on the 180.
I'm very confused as to what size I would need for my next bike but I know I have to demo it not just blindly buy.
Nice job guys. Really good content on this video
Bike sizing is so complicated.. I always try to match my reach when I buy a new bike but styles of bikes seem to make reach different on different sizes. What I mean is an XC bike might have the same reach in an XL as my trail bike does in a L.. but then the other measurements have to be taken into account and I think unless you are some sort of high functioning math scientist, it's hard to know exactly what you need until you get out on the trail. There are so many things you can change... crank length, stem length, seat height, seat angle, bar width..etc How is anyone ever suppose to know exactly what to change to get that little strain out of your back after a hard day of riding... ugh...
Im 5'8 got a small cube stereo 120r i prefere it to my medium trek top fuel and medium gt avalanche being between sizes sucks but like having more seat post exposed agile twitchy shifting body weight around and when riding flater tracks not being too streched out is great
As a taller 6'3" person, I found that too short of a top tube length would make me more prone to going over the bars on steep descents and drop-offs. Not a good thing.
Im glad you acknowledged the fact that reach is affecting by stack. Many people underestimate this.
As im also a roadie, i do think they underestimate the effect of the wheelbase on decending ability, ive found longer wheelbases create horrible understeer.
I've had various bikes with a reach of between 430mm and 515mm over the last 12 years, I can say that the 595mm reach of my nukeproof mega 290 2023 is the best fitting bike for my 187cm height and 32" inseam
I sit right in between medium and large on most companies bikes. And at one point a really good deal came up and I bought a large I kind of hated the way it rode it was always stuck to the ground and really stable which if I was somewhere very Steep and very fast all the time I would love but in the tight technical relatively flowing Trails I ride most I prefer medium and ended up getting a different bike. I still use the numbers I learned from those two frames to guide me moving forward
What are your opinions on sizing down/up on larger frames when wheel sizes and geometry don't change? For example, a Medium to Large or Large to X-Large. Both 29" wheels, same geometry, less variables that change in general.
If you used to ride BMX size down. Came from moto size up.
Tight trails size down,
Steep down trails size up.
Ones companies Sm is another's MD or LG. Gt fury 16 alloy LG was bigger than most XXL and the LG spesh I came off of matched up closest to the small GT
5' 6 and 30 inch inseam = 420 "reach"
so i go for that, fudging the number a bit based on STA
It's interesting how some brands have different wheel sizes on their smaller frames, while others don't. Norco is one such brand. They have 29 wheels on all their sizes, even their small. Even though they have short stays and the 29 wheels are bike, then the frame itself. I would know since my bike is like this. Just gose to show, to do your research before buying.
I'm 175cm and between S and M on a lot of bike size calcs. I used to pick M, but then tried sizing down to S. It feels significantly better, I feel more comfortable and relaxed and more in control, like I'm riding the bike rather than just being along for the ride. It's slightly more twitchy and unstable ride though. Also it's a plus that the bike is slightly smaller to move around and has slightly less weight. I think a downside is that it's probably more difficult to resell compared to size M and L.
Interesting, I am 175cm and am between medium and large?
At 5’4" and 31" inseam I often size up. The Fuel EX I’m on now is a medium because the super steep seat tube angle comes at the expense of top tube length. My knees with pads on sometimes hit my grips,on steep,uphill switchbacks so the small at about 3cm shorter top tube was a no go. I also have a Fairbike offset post head to put my saddle further back along with a 32mm stem. It’s comfortable for me.
But it’s complicated this fit thing. The marketing often tries to present blanket statements about seat tube angle or head angle as this angle is better for everyone. But that’s often just bs to encourage spending. Then one spends big bucks and the confirmation bias kicks in.
Your Fuel EX would climb better with more weight on the front wheel . I would use a 50 millimetre offset stem and displace the saddle forward by a third of this amount to correct your reach to allow for shin pad clearance , and so called "comfortable setup" .
@ How do you know that without seeing how my bike fits me? No one needs weight on the front wheel climbing as much as you need weight ahead of the rear contact patch. If I’m riding up steep slopes, 25 - 30% I’m pulling back on the bars. Not pushing down. What a longer stem used to do with old bikes was put one’s body into a better climbing position. The weight on the front wheel statement we used to believe is sort of a myth. Longer rear ends climb better.
@@andyeunson270 The "super steep seat tube angle" must be related to the small Fuel EX . The knee pad rubbing the hand grips on very steep sections has no solution in your case . Being comfortable has no correlation to knee encroachment to the bars . It is a trade off . The only golden answer would be a custom artisan frame to build around due to your proportion of build . I have ridden custom mtb frames and still do at 5ft 6in tall .
@ the knee encroachment is only on tight uphill turns. I think the sa on all Fuel ex is 78°. I have long femurs too so that doesn’t help.
@@andyeunson270 Your statement about stem length is still up for debate based on all input from other subscribers here . Riding style and habits comes into it too . I have seen some riders pull back as you do and others lean over the bars slightly on those steep climbs . The adhesion is adequate at the front wheel in both cases , I have experimented and so has a lady enduro rider I sponsor .
You've got the chapter names wrong on the video timeline. You've got: Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing down. Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing down. Should be: Pros of sizing up. Cons of sizing up. Pros of sizing down. Cons of sizing down. I know I'm being nitpicky, but I'm interested in this topic and wanted to jump straight to what you thought about the advice other channels sometimes give about sizing down, and.... got confused.
I can find loads of bikes that fit me but being a fan of 27.5" wheels definitely limits my choice 😏
Where was this video made?
I'm always a size large,no matter what the 'numbers' say..ha!
I picked up a 2014 Stumpjumper EVO Expert (for $150!) and although it is L, I swear it feels very much the same size as my more modern Slade Trail and Giant Trance, both M. Bikes have definitely got bigger.
A 2014 large is probably the same size as new medium
Very good episode...i guess it depends on how someone is riding as to what size would be best...bikes remind me of guitars..fitting them to a person's liking...basically you have the standard measurement and everything around that is customizable...i do like the look of Owen's bike...and maybe a small to medium would be suitable for me,.iam having trouble deciding what tire tread, width and hardness is best for me,🤔🚲❣️
Did you try measuring your RAD and calculating RAD and RAAD of both bikes? Curious how it turns out
What brand is that tool kit frame bag? it looks perfect for what I want and I'm not finding it anywhere
Great spot!
The bag is the - Canyon Framebag Long Bracket it mounts to the two bolts on the upper section of the down tube - I've managed to squeeze in two TPU tubes into the bag - but you could fit - a TPU tube and a multitool - its great!
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd thanks!
Dudes, if you buy a bike, you should try it first. Different bikes can feel very differently. I personally would not buy a bike online anymore. Good bikeshops will have test bikes. Or you rent a bike for a day or two. I think it's worth it.
Agreed. I bought my last bike without riding and it just doesn’t feel quite right. I’m 5’8” on a medium. I’ll never buy a bike again without trying it on the trail first
If you watch any of my videos you'll see me on a size large Specialized turbo Vado , im 6 foot 3 , i also have a extra large and fit on it as well , my sisters med ebike is not a bad fit for me either , so you really need to test ride different sizes and make a informed choice 😊
Its crazy the most bikes, you can move the saddle up or down about 150mm and back and forth 40mm but the handlebars and stem have no adjustment.
@@CMZPICTURES You can roll the handlebar forward or back, for some adjustment. The more bend in the bars, the more adjustment you can make.
@@alindberg8001 Yeah, that helps a bit. As do riser bars. Bike companies should leave the fork steerer's uncut and let the bike shop do it. Or at least leave enough tube for a few spacers.
My down country bike is a small and my aggressive hardtail is a med and both are set up close to the same reach
You should redo this with a different brand that has the same size wheels between sizes.Canyon sizing is also different than the rest of the industry. Maybe try Propain? Too many variables with the Canyon….
My Grandmother was a very bad and nervous driver- she liked as big a car as possible, and with as soft and isolating a suspension as possible.
Grandfather was a petrolhead; small, light, and maneuverable was his fun.
Who are you guys selling to???
How do you factor a size for MTB? From BB to my top tube is 42cm. Its a hardtail.
What's happened to Anna ,where is she 😮
Sizing down means more seatpost extension out of the frame. This creates the unfortunate affect of putting your arse in the air like an 80's cross country racer.
Whats the bag in front of the water bottle please?
Great spot!
The bag is the - Canyon Framebag Long Bracket it mounts to the two bolts on the upper section of the down tube - I've managed to squeeze in two TPU tubes into the bag - but you could fit - a TPU tube and a multitool - its great!
Again good eyes!
Cheers
Owen
I'm 193cm (6.3") XL for me, thank you very much.
What bike have you currently got?
Great that you know what you'd like but be aware not all XL frames are created equally so could size up differently - and some brands now offer XXL's too!
Cheers
Owen
5,9 on med with 35mm stem
Dont believe.... Next year 31er is the new fashion, keep your current bike 😊
36er are already out there - but those wheels are huge!
Why in the world would you choose a bike with different wheel sizes? Wheel size is a valid point to discuss, but it complicates (and distracts from, imo) the main topic of the video.
Thanks for your insights - agreed the wheel size change does add an extra dimension to the which bike size discussion - Canyon and other brands utilise different wheels on different sizes - so I had to discuss the wheel size as when I switched up from the small to a medium the wheel size changed - again note that it adds another element to the size debate but I feel I'm not alone in being between frame sizes and then wheel sizes too.
Cheers
Owen
because i have relatively long arms and quite short legs i would probably always choose a small size if i was between two sizes.
#BallClearanceIsKey
6ft long legs 2016 AM/XC 27.5 size L always found it too large handlebar too long seat comically and dangerously high, bought an ebike 2024 27.5 size M knowing it would be too small and it was if you don't want to start dismantling your new bike follow manufacturer recommendations as oem my back was ruined on the 1st ride because my bar was lower than my extremely raised saddle, I had to buy a riser handlebar and get a longer 180mm dropper to have more up down margin I wish I could have taken 210mm but frame can't fit it (removed parts became upgrades for my muscular 2016 I knew that was a possible outcome) stack will be your biggest problem if you go lower rising or lowering the saddle is easy if you raise the stem it'll modify your reach too, as the reach recommended for my 6ft is the reach I have stock I bought a riser just elevation the bar nothing else, bottom line unless you have another bike to upgrade money for new parts and the time and skill to start swapping a dropper handlebar and or stem stick to the recommended sizes ;) I tought I was good but then I learned about shorter cranks and now...I have to raise everything again for 155mm cranks (10mm margin before a pedal strike and easier to cadence which is what ebikes want anyway) so I bought a 70mm riser ebikes are for fun anyway who cares if I look like a bmx
hi people pls help me ! i want to find a long fender/mud guard for my FOX 32 Step Cast performance - is there such a option on the market?
So if I have short legs and a long torso should I size down :p !!
Size up
Thanks Owen. Follow up question in regards to reach. #ASKGMBNTECH Do manufacturer reach measurements take into account the stem they are using and handlebar rotation set to zero/neutral?
I like a 30 mm id rim... Surprisingly not too common...
8:40 172cm is pretty much bang on 5ft 8, not 5ft 6
🤔185cm on a ragley big al large, used to be on a XL but was to big for me👍
After a decade of longer slacker geo is OUT OF CONTROL right now. If you are sizing up you’re gonna look like a kid on an adult bike. Recommended size or sizing down is the only option if you care to actually steer your bike.
Thanks for your insights - your right there has been some big changes in bike geometry - mostly for the better but the slacker geometry has settled - and hopefully you got the overall message from the video is to say you do need to do the research on which frame dimensions you need - alas its not as simple as size up or size down.
Again thanks for your insights.
Cheers
Owen
If I understand that I will fall between sizes I would look for another brand.
12:36 I'm waiting for a hobo to jump out and grab his bike..
Redo your math; 172cm is not 5'6".
Why can't he put a longer stem on his bike??
Industry trying everything to get us to buy a new bike
26??
Bro made a video to convince himself
Well hopefully it helps other too?
Cheers
Owen
@@OwenBikeNerd of course
that was tedious
Buddy, that bike is too small for you. Size up!
Thanks for your insights!
This Medium fits great!
Cheers
Owen
But the right size the first time silly. Lmao keepemcoming
Gosh your intro is so tedious
You didnt mention the obvious size and we9gjt difference of 29 over 27.5 and climbing having that what 500 ish grams of extra rubber and wheel to drag up the hill doesn't I think make it easyier to climb a hill. If it's grip u want try a new tyre. I prefer 27.5 as 29 seems huge and heavy. I only got a 29 gravel. Also got a 27.5 mullet and a 27.5 that was a 29 before but I could switch it so tried it and yeah well better so I seen it all. Weight is everything. And u didn't touch on that. It's OK understand your trying to pls the industry. 27.5 is better cornering and handling. I think matters more than any other benefits they try and sell you like it rolls better over bumps or g9ves better grip climbing yeah they don't tell you your be having to work harder to climb that hill with 29 on it so your need that extra grip they try and sell u on. 27.5 is my fav akd I'm a bike nut man. Check.my channel and bikes your see the most gorgous 27.5 ya ever seen ha ha p.s. 10 speed is my fav too. 11 max but I give the thumbs down for 12. I mean why. Ha
What's the pack that you have fitted to the downtube in front of the waterbottle please ?
Interesting that you move the saddle forward a lot. I have also long legs an do the same on a comparable bike from Cube to find the optimal balance for (steep) uphills. This basically means that the seat tube angle is to steep if the seat tube is extended a lot.