I don't buy the wearing out of rims. I have only ever worn out rims on a commuter bike ridden through winters after many years. Rim brake bikes with decent wheels and 105 are bound to be far less expensive, and lighter, than hydraulic disc bikes with electronic gears.
I have a rim brake cyclocross/gravel bike that I'm now on my fourth set of wheels in just over a decade. I'm a clydesdale, and rode hard, in many conditions. It happens.
Horses for courses, if a bike will see lots and lots of mud/grit, and lots of braking and accelerations, yes, it will wear out. On the road, for the majority of cyclists, they won't wear a single set of wheels during a bikes lifetime. And the brand name rotors are not cheap either.
I've worn out two aluminum (rear) rims in my lifetime, riding on the road. It depends on whether you're willing to go out in bad weather on those rims or not.
I road through probably a rim set a year in my prime riding time (150 - 350 miles a week of riding/training) of training and then racing on the weekends so it can totally be done.. I would guess that most "casual" riders could probably take a lot longer.. BUT it is a thing depending on your volume and conditions..
True, but same applies to virtually every leisure activity. There will often be 2 camps, One who enjoy buying new stuff and the thrill of keeping their hobby interesting, and another who want things to stay unaltered.
Wheel rims wear out from braking? In all my years of cycling (I'm 75, and still doing the distance) I've only ever seen a couple of rims overly worn from braking. Mind you, they're metal. Ya know, like sensible people use. A quality alloy rim is better in almost every respect for the average cyclist who has a sense of balance. Mentally and physically. And I've built up many of my own wheels over the decades.
@@Burger1097 Indeed. Any rim I saw that was 'getting thin' was not mine, and one that been abused. The early alloy rims tended to be unhardened, and also brake pads could be meant for unalloyed steel, not quality alloy.
Yep, 71 here, crossed U.S. three times, EU once. Owned road, touring, mtn bikes, I recently got disgusted with disc brakes and tubeless and bought a cantilever brake, tubes only, 36 spoke wheel bike. When it sits during winter, just add air, lube chain, and ride... simple beauty of the bike. PS crossed U.S., 3X and had two flats. Happy trails!☮
Five road bikes and two gravel bikes all with metal wheels and rim brakes. Cheaper and easier to maintain rim brakes. I learned how to true my wheels so that is never an issue. Long live rim brakes! 🚴🏻♂️❤
Sorry - If an LBS won't allow test rides on items IN STOCK then let them go out of business (if selling stock production bikes is their business). I had no LBS with stock of anything I was interested in and drove 100mi to shop that let me test ride about 4 different bikes from 4 different brands in multiple sizes. I spent a good bit of time there and the bikes absolutely rode differently beyond tires or bar tape. In the end I bought a bike completely different from them than the one I specifically went to try. I bought it from them because they EARNED the sale through their selection, patience and generally being very helpful. I'll happily drive the distance again to give them a sale. Of course I order on line for lots of stuff but for items where fit matters if an LBS have it, it fits, and they aren't total dicks (as many stores sadly are), I buy it there because they've earned the difference between their price and on-line.
Wait a moment! I bought a Specialized Allez Elite, yes the rim-brake model, and rode 15'000 km. I live in the Alps, I love climbing and descending the mountains. So far i did not even hat to change my brake pads! The DT-Swiss alloy wheel will last surely last for ages considering I did not even had to change brake pads.
Do you weigh 50 grams? 😂 I live in the flattest country on earth and have changed my pads 3-4 times over 15k km. Edit: of course I am talking about a city bike used for commuting, it also rains alot here so that might be the reason for that
I agree and disagree that they won’t last as long. Rim brakes wear but the batteries for the group set don’t last and they aren’t made anymore for early models of shimano
@@MysticFluff1 I cycle in the Swiss alps. Sometimes I use rim brakes (ultegra), sometimes I use hydraulic disc brakes (sram rival). Most of the time, though, I use my rim brake bike and keep my disc brake bike as a back-up. I'm not a professional rider descending at 80+kmph so I never approach the force limit that either can provide. I'm sure a pro rider can take full advantage of the marginal force win of disc brakes but I'm a mere mortal mainly focused on getting to the bottom in 1 piece. Modern developments like aero carbon wheels, wireless shifting and disc brakes just give me an advantage I'll never use. The bottleneck to the time it takes me to ascend the Nufenen Pass is not the 8ms longer it takes to shift gear with a cable.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. 96 % or more of riders will get a new bike before wearing out a rim. We are talking about ROAD bikes. Almost no-one rides in the rain, most people maintain their bikes, most people don't ride 10k per year. A good rim in mostly dry conditions will last AT LEAST 50-60.000 km, aluminium or carbon, doesn't matter. It's a none-issue in almost everyone's reality when riding road bikes.
After 40 years of riding bikes I’ve never replaced wheels because the brake surface was worn down. Bent rims from Pot holes and crashes are the usual reasons a wheel gets replaced.
@@HCMORGI Tell me you've never ridden proper rim brakes without telling me you've never ridden proper rim brakes... Edit: I've worn out ONE pair of rims in my life. On a 55 kg electric cargo bike, ridden in literally all weather conditions including snow, packed regularly with up to almost 200 kg cargo (including me), with hydraulic rim brakes. Those were 20" and 24" rims and lasted almost 12.000 km. It took over 5 years to do that. Pretty fast, I guess...
I've worn out loads of rims over the years riding in winter. On average, I get three years' use out of a Mavic Aksium wheelset, probably 2500 miles per year at most. The current pair are into their second winter and I can see the rims becoming slightly concave. I live somewhere hilly, with wet roads for much of the time between October and March, even when it's not actually raining. By contrast, my summer bike - which I don't ride in the rain - has a pair of Mavic Ksyrium wheels which I bought in 2000 and which are still going strong (apart from changing the bearings). If you ride in the wet, rim brake wheel rims will wear out.
Ok, how many people do you know that have actually worn out a old style alloy rim brake wheel set? I suppose it could happen, but would be very rare. Back in the 1980s I built a wheelset using Mavic Open Pro wheels and Campy hubs that is still fine today, 40 some years later.
I burned through several Mavic rims in the 80's & 90's (a rim set a year as I recall it) but I was riding 300+ miles a week and racing in all weather and conditions (I trained in Santa Cruz CA) with a lot of rain, sea fog (salt!), and sand... cooked em off regularly BUT I think that is an edge case and NOT typical of most folks - But it can be done and I did it (the break pads would carve into the rim and create a noticeable slot so if/when you changed break pads it would shred the new ones...) a fair amount
1997-2007 I was riding 4000-5000 miles a year, all year round and went through quite a few alloy rims. Not that big an annual mileage but I was/am a taller heavier rider. (Well now I don't even do 1000 a year and I am much heavier!)
@@TenFalconsMusic Hah, see the sarcasm. but I say that I'm not a big fan of braking myself either. Some say my brakes don't work so I don't bother braking at all, just got used to SPEED! 😁
I've done it a few times.. it can be done... but I do think it is an edge case rather than a regular thing - riding volume + conditions can really do a job on rims...
I've worn out three sets of rims in the last few years. They were aluminium, rather than steel. But still, it's not an unusual thing to happen. It's like the disc Vs the pads in terms of wear differences, you'd go through multiple sets of pads before the braking surface started to show lots of wear
Are disc brakes and electronic shifting “better?” Of course they perform better. The issue is whether they are worth all the extra money and maintenance for the entry level rider or the budget conscious rider. Having rim brake models available as an option would allow more new riders entry into the sport.
@@siberian13 This may shock you to learn, but many people prefer to buy new. From a shop. Particularly when they are not knowledgeable and don’t know what they are looking for.
@@bradtowne2305 EXACTLY! For pro riders, cutting edge tech and components make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really make the most of it. HOWEVER! However, for the 99.9% of us riding for fitness and fun, that stuff is overkill. Is shaving a fraction of a second really necessary for us? No. Plus, tech and quality trickle down to lower level components and groupsets anyway. A Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is better than the Shimano 600 (the Ultegra predecessor, BTW!) of yesteryear. A modern Acera derailleur is equal to the Deore of yesteryear. And so on.
A bit of BS here saying it is cheaper to have carbon wheels and disk brakes. I have been riding since the eighties and worked in bike shops I rode big miles in the oat and never wore out non carbon rims. Add in the cost of carbon wheels and disk brakes maintenance it is not cheaper.
Yep, a lot of BS, especially when you need a mech to remove a chattering disc, or figuring out your new pads picked up a piece of gravel that dug a groove in the pad. Tubeless, I've spent hours cleaning, taping, trying to install and seat poor tire and rim combinations. The tolerances are close for the systems to work nicely, and when you replace a tire it's not that simple with tubeless. I've toured over 10,000 miles on four tours, and got two flat tires with tubes, 10 minute repair. Canti brakes by Paul, Velocity Dyad rims, Schwalbe Marathons keeps bikes simple.
@Mike-vd2qt definitely a lot of BS here, but Nic has a business of course he won't promote rim brake bikes I've worn out 1 set of wheels over 50 years of riding.
Nothing wrong with rim brakes,nothing wrong with disc brakes. A lot of people won't even wear out a set of tyres before they sell it or permanently park it up. But,they have still made bikes cheaper for everyone else.
Cycling innovation fails the test of not knowingly complicating complexities. Peak road bike for most was probably about 2016 when I was lucky enough to get a Wilier GTR SL for just £3,000. Light, fast, reliable and does long rides comfortably.
Depends on riding conditions, and how often you go through fluid, pads and rotors vs the cost of replacing the front rim, and a few sets of inexpensive pads in the same amount of time.
I’m with Emily. If you find your dream bike and you can afford it, buy it. I know a guy who was haggling with a LBS for his dream bike and walked away over fifty bucks. He ended up buying a different bike from another shop and spent 15 years riding the bike he didn’t want for a lousy $50.
I spent years trying to always get the best deal even if I could afford the good stuff. You end up with alot of compromises. I finally splurged and built a 25 lb. XC bike last year. It's awesome. And makes me regret not spending more when I was younger and could really thrash it.
"Disc brake wheels don't wear out so fast": I confess that I've always been kind of a big boi, but from what I can tell, the spokes go first, even if you use a 36-spoke model. By the time you need to replace a rim, you're probably overdue to rebuild the wheel with new spokes anyway. True, a rim track gets a lot closer to the muck than a disc rotor, but on the other hand, 1) rims have vastly more surface area than brake discs and 2) rim brakes have more leverage against wheel rotation than disc brakes have, so rim brakes don't need to work nearly as hard as disc brakes to slow the bike. I agree that disc brakes make the use of carbon rims feasible. Disc brakes also allow you to swap wheels with different profiles more quickly, which is nice if you want a wheelset with knobby tires and sealant for chunky gravel and another wheelset to keep up with the folks on the fast road ride.
Pretty much agree. I'm actually from "opposite weight region". Maybe not a "feather", but varying in between 68 up to 75 kilos lately. My reality is that I killed wheel hubs of my road bike before I managed to wear out the rims. Not to mention being hit by car and ending up in hospitals twice so far, also trashing the bikes. Already won criminal court case, waiting for insurance money. So will be able to buy yet another bike. "Rim-brake" based one? Very likely so.. :D Just love the looks.
The front wheel on my CX bike is the original rim after ~16,000km. I've broken a few spokes. The hub, remarkably, is still fine. In my history, I've had a few aluminum rims wear out and fail, once WHILE RIDING. Disc wheels have far better longevity if you ride in even mildly bad conditions with any regularity. I've raced CX on carbon tubular wheels and they were light and fast, but ironically, they were terrible in mud. The braking performance was sub-standard at best, and I've had pads wear down over the course of the race and get dangerously close to the carrier touching the braking surface. But even on the road, I can't be happier with discs. The wheel rim only has to do one thing: be structurally sound. Trying to engineer something to do two diametrically opposed things at once has always been bad news, and bike wheels are no different. My main issue with discs is that the levers still haven't come back to being as good as they were with my rim brakes.
Expensive carbon fibre bikes and components, as well as electronic groupsets, are definitely killing cycling. They are completely unnecessary for non-professional cyclists Disc brakes can be mechanical or hydraulic and still be relatively affordable. Also, they are undeniably better in wet weather.
I’ve used disc brakes, on mtbs, since day one. Back in the day, Cannondale did the right thing and spec’d discs across their mtb ranges. The only downside -first gen Magura’s leaked a lot! When they did work they just made sense. Mags, Hope, Shimano et al had twenty years to refine the technology before the UCI had their hissy fit about introducing them onto road bikes. So here we are no downsides. Disc brakes perform well in all weather conditions. They’re relatively easy to maintain. Aesthetically bikes just look way cleaner.
I'm always tempted to do something like upgrade my wheels. Then I think about taking that money and going somewhere for a biking holiday. Multiple night hotel lodgings and some nice meals out somewhere I don't normally ride.
Electronic gears are simply better. But when you consider what goes into those systems, they are massively over-priced. Disc brakes perform better and they are the reason we now have road bikes that can accept wider tires.
Campagnolo Record had long reach side pull brakes in 1980, I had them on my touring bike with 700X38 in 1984. I've toured across the U.S. three times and EU once, had two flat tires on four tours of approximately 10,000 miles. Two flats, 10 minutes each to repair, vs Tubeless and three hours of cleaning rims, taping tubeless, new valves, fitting and seating poorly matched rims and tires. Granted in Texas and New Mexico, and some Upper Midwest in Nebraska where Goat Head thorns are present tubeless is perfect. Otherwise, tubeless is a pain, and takes more money and time.
Uh, MTBs have had rim brakes and fat tires for DECADES! Why do you think cantilever and linear pull brakes were invented? To accommodate the wider tires and wheels of MTBs.
For demoing bikes, my opinion is that the bike shop can charge a fee for the bike demo and the fee can roll into the final purchase. Here bike demoing doesn't mean just a quick spin around the neighborhood. Instead the customer should be able to take it out for the full day to have a proper ride
Those of us who prefer mechanical bicycles can take heart because there are still single-speed, fixed gear and 3-speed hub gears available today. That older, tried and tested, technology does not go away completely.
Any “super bike” from 9 speed forward does just fine on the average weekly group ride. Many of those bikes were never ridden much. My 2009 Giant does just fine for 150-200 miles a week.
I only have one bike. Biggest problem is tire clearance. I ride it where I really shouldn’t but it always does the job. Just wish I could run a bit wider tire.
While I do get your points on why you don't offer test rides, from a new cyclist's perspective, I can't fathom paying thousands for a bike that I have NO idea of whether or not it works for me. I trainer tells me shit! I've purchased two bikes (both Trek) in less than 12 months, both of which were sold after a test ride. Then, in the last two weeks, I've shopped two different dealers (one Trek, one Specialized) for yet another bike (third in less than 12 months) both of which readily offered a test ride. One of those even had a different size brought in just so I could compare two sizes of the same bike. To me, THAT is what a LBS is ALL about, as opposed to a direct to consumer brand. And THAT was the LBS developing a relationship with ME, and not the other way around. And guess what! As a result, they have a loyal customer for life! I don't mind paying a little more to get that level of customer service. Without a test ride, I may as well just say, "Meh, I'll just order online and take my chances while saving some cash"....
I once learnt of a customer who bought a bike for his sister the same time he bought his own, both of which are the same model: Specialized Aethos (forgot whether one or both are S-Works versions) His sister rode her bike a few times and after one tumble, she called it quits. This bike is now his.
I rode a rim brake road bike for 4 years and I have nothing to complain about that. This year, I moved to a disk break road bike, I feel so much comfortable on down hills with my new bike. I’m not good on down hills, maybe because of that I feel more comfortable with disk breaks.
I often ride with a wheelset my father laced when he was racing... in 1975 (early Shimano hubs with Mavic Module E rims). I also used them as backup wheels. So, those rims are 50 years old and they're still prefectly usable, on a vintage bike of course. One thing not to be forgotten is keep the pads clean!
My 8 year old Giant TCX/SX's only original parts are the stem and handlebar. The bike continually renews itself ( well , I upgrade when necessary or affordable or " man , that is just so suited to my age and riding style " )and it brings me even more fun and joy when I ride. I'm 72 and have last week's broken rib to exemplify this. And the secret to buying/upgrading/maintaining ? Find a really good bike shop and stick with them.
Great video! I ride a 2014 Cannondale SSE with mechanical 105 and a lot of this video rings true. The drivetrain is still faultless but I've upgraded the handlebars, tyres and pedals. The frame has external cabling so Di2 is impossible, and frame clearance limits it to 25mm tyres. Its rim brakes mean I have such limited scope in upgrading wheelsets as no local bike shops near me do rim brake wheelsets. The bike has served me so well, but I guess I will have to move with the times and eventually look to buy a whole new bike, but the market value for an equivalent bike and similar groupset is just so expensive! 😢
You need to replace brake pads, rotors and brake fluid vs just pads with rim brakes. Rim brake pads will last twice to thrice as long as disc brake pads do.
Trying stuff out in a bricks and mortar shop and then buying online is pretty skeezy IMO. If I try something in a shop and they have what I want, I'm buying it there. I buy stuff online, too, but only when I'm buying a replacement for something I already have experience with, or when I'm willing to take my chances and deal with the possible hassle of online returns.
YES! If my LBS has what I want, I buy from them. Especially if it's something that one should try on before buying, like a bike, a trip to the LBS is worth it. Who cares if it costs more, provided it fits your body type and the type of riding you do? The advice a LBS can give is PRICELESS!
I refuse to buy a disk brake bike. They require more maintenance, tools and skills that I don't need if I use rim brakes. They work just fine. Never wore out a set of rims from rim brakes so far and I'm 66 years old. They don't wear out. What a joke.
Good advice on upgrading and looking at a bike in terms of (1) frame, (2) wheels and or tires, (3) groupset, (4) bars and seat. Frame is lowest bang for buck.
@@toolazytoo Most amateur road riders ARE fair weather riders... If you're not, you're the exception. Buy disc brakes, by all means. And then slide out in the wet because the stopping power is to great...
It depends on the conditions where you live. If you live somewhere that's relatively flat and rolling -- with predictable weather -- like I do-- disc brakes seem like overkill. I 've ridden 12,000k this year and, let me think, hmm, I rode in the rain three times.🤔
Disk rider here, and I have never, ever used more than 70% braking force as the problem is that the tyres just give and you slip and slide - happened recently in Portugal, didn't know the road and came to a 90 degree corner at speed and my newish GP5000 just fishtailed. I always use 25% to 35% force and brake with both levers evenly. RIM brakes are just as effective - unless you have carbon rims in the wet of course.
Brakes are for decelerating if your hands get tired or you don’t have the grip strength to lockup your brakes in a dangerous situation disc brakes are for you. If you are a racer I would recommend disc so you could brake a little later in the corners. For the majority of cyclists rim brakes because they are effective and easy to maintain.
Instead of having several complete bikes hanging, I'd eventually like to get it down to two wheelsets (gravel/road) and a bunch of hanging frames with components. Then I just drop whichever frame I want to ride that day onto the wheels. Saves me some room.
Expensive fancy stuff doesn't make you a cyclist. Its getting out there a pedaling every day/week that makes you a cyclist. I'm still riding my old Schwinn Le Tour. Hi-Ten frame, downtube shifters, all the old stuff. Been riding this bike since 1997.
I don't think its a case of disc brakes themselves but a heading towards being overly complicated systems of what's meant to be a simple machine, I use full mechanical disc brakes which are more than enough to bring you to a full stop going downhill at 30mph on tarmac despite what I was told, set up is everything.
I have never worn out a aluminum rim, I have repaired freehubs yes but never the rim. I own a pair of Zondas that just lasted and lasted.. Daily UK winter training, multiple trips to Mallorca up and down Sa Calobra and Puig Major, 6 months cycling in south east asia (Hot, wet, humid and near the sea). the rear wheel is somewhere in my workshop no doubt still fine, the front is on my Zwift bike..
Well, I totally agree with the point about upgrading your current bike rather than bying a new one in "the same" price category (unless it has modern tech you can upgrade later on), but the ever increasing pressure for new/ expensive tech just for the sake of it is nothing but driving the base-price up. Not to mention the weight gains. To were out an alu. rim brake surface takes a long time, and the cost of replacing a rim is slim compared to upgrading your bike. The frame, group set, and wheels are completely different (and did I mention the weight?). I love your content a lot, and you admit to be bias, but going from a singlespeedbike to one with gearing can never be seen as the same as going from a light rimbrake bike with mechanical shifting, to a heavyer bike with disk brakes and electronic shifting. Both probably have a similar gear ratio as well. I love the old rim brake bikes. The only one i can run straight pull spokes on. 😉🤙
Brake pads for disks pads (the wear items) are the same price or cheaper than rim brake pads, except at the highest end, which is pointless anyways. Hydraulic fluid is cheap, and cables do wear anyways. We can talk about electronic groupsets and all that jam, but I strongly doubt diskbrakes even add a single dollar to a manufacturer's cost to produce for road bikes. MT201 disk brakes (preloaded) are available for cheaper in the US than 105 rim brakes caliper only.
As a mountainbiker, the whole discussion and whining is ridiculous! Yes, I‘m not going to buy an electronic shift group in the next five years unless they become waaay cheaper, but disc brakes? I can’t imagine any con against it. Are all Roadies Retro Grouches bemoaning the good old times?
Do disk brakes load up the front fork under braking reducing the flex and grip? Forks are meant to flex keeping tyre contact over bumps. Should bikes have rear disk only?
@@paulgrimshaw8334 YES and no. Yes, because of course they load up the fork. That is physics... That's why forks for disc brakes are constructed differently and are much stiffer, therefore reducing flex and traction and increasing vibration, hence why you need bigger tires to make up for the mess you didn't need to create in the first place... No, because the breaking power of disc brakes is already too great with slim tires, so there is absolutely no need for them in the rear, which is even less used when breaking.
@ Nope. The fork is equally loaded, regardless of the brake type. The force is a function of the rider, the vector, and the frame (thru which the fork and stem bear the load. There is also an issue of brake balance. Braking two wheels is more effective than just one. The forces are handled through two contact patches after all.
Never been convinced about disc brakes being cheaper than rim brakes just because of brake track wear. Carbon rims (from e.g. Farsports or Lightbicycle) are in the neighborhood of $200 each while a single rotor+pad swap can be around $100 per wheel (not to mention bleeds), while rim brake pads are about $15/wheel and are trivial to install. Beyond that there's the sticker price premium (back when they still sold both versions) which on its own would probably cover one set of new rims. And last but not least brake track wear is far from the only way to trash a rim. Disc brakes have some real advantages over rim brakes (and vice versa) but the specific argument that they're cheaper in the long run is usually presented in such an incomplete way that it just seems like shilling.
Roadies are so funny. Its 2024, XC mountain bikes are starting to have geometry similar to enduro bikes from 5 years ago and you guys are arguing about disc brakes still. Disc brakes perform better and are similarly priced to rim brakes at this point in time.
Rims wear out but my race wheels are over 10 years old and still have minimal wear, they are retired to the cross bike now .. I wouldn't use decent wheels for winter riding , chain gangs etc anyway, too much opportunity for destruction. If you can only afford one bike ( lack of cash or storage) then fair enough getting a disc bike might make sense otherwise makes no odds for most of us. I've got 2 cx bikes, the rim brake one is quicker, even if it's muddy ( unless it's clay and hay😂)
Imagine if UCI didn't ban disc brakes for road bikes. We might get wide tires (can't beat the comfort), tubeless tires, and hydraulic disc brakes cheaper from the used market. The good things about electronic drivetrains are multiple speeds like wheeltop (I can't believe the Chinese brand demonstrates the possibility), full wireless shifting with an interchangeable battery like SRAM, a 2x setup in a single button shift, and auto adjustment for chain rub. The problem is we can't get them all in one groupset (patent issue probably).
The entry cost for disc brakes and electronic shifting aren't really in the same ballpark. Lots of really cheap bikes come with good shimano hydro discs, especially true for flat bar bikes (anything "road" gets an automatic premium). There's no budget option for shimano electronic shifting like there is for disc brakes.
I’ve been riding for over 17 years and I don’t think I have had any rim brake wheel sets ever wear out to the point that they need to be replaced, and I’ve ridden tens of thousands of miles in my years. Also, your disc doesn’t just get slightly cooked, they completely warp and go completely out of true 😂😂😂
I would never buy a high end bike from a store without a test ride. People constantly complain about prices, but that's extremely poor customer service. You don't have the ability to make an informed decision otherwise. When I purchased my new bike last year, I test rode a Tarmac SL7 Expert and SL8 Pro. The SL8 was clearly the more comfortable bike and the bike shop made a larger sale. Win-win situation!
My bike shop takes great care of me. That comes with a price IMO. I'm willing to pay a few dollars more at the shop, knowing I could get some things cheaper on line, to get that outstanding service. Most often they surprise me with a slight discount at the register.
I'm with NICK when it comes to "SHOWROOMING" Sadly, people should shop for a SHOP rather than a bike. Once you've found the right shop, they'll help you buy the right bike based on your budget, maybe one you never considered!
While what he says is true, that if you spend 1500$ now and 1500$ in 3 years you are getting nearly the same bike. Imo you are better off saving the money till you have more becaus the upgrade path while sounding fun and it could work. In the long game it will actually be a lot more expensive for the end user. and everytime you need to upgrade and move, for example, your groupset to another frame, or change the stem/handlebars and need to re route everything, guess who is getting a cut every time.
I wanted to buy a new carbon-frame road bike this year, but I did not want hydraulic disk brakes and tubeless tires because of the costs of purchase and maintenance. There were no all-carbon alternatives among the Trek bikes.
@@ridley8340modern carbon wheels tend to have wider internals than older alloy ones, just because of the trend of ever-widening tyres and a better understanding of why wider tyres are a good idea. I can run wider tyres, lower pressures and be noticeably faster and more comfortable on my carbon hoops than I have been on any number of aluminium ones I've had in the past. That's not to say you can't get good alu wheels of course, but for stuff that's performative and also includes those nice comfort gains, carbon has been the best option for a while
Older generation discs like the 105 7000 series were crap. The newer generation with what I call 'reverse exponential pull ratio' (just made that up!), where the initial part of the lever movement gives a lot of pad movement and the latter part of the lever movement gives less pad movement for more power and modulation. This means you have more pad to rotor clearance without excessive lever movement before the pads touch the rotor, so you don't get any brake rub. I'm not sure if the newer 105 12 speed mechanical is like this but I've got my fingers crossed so I don't have to shell out for the 105 di2 just to get decent brakes!
Sounds that you're talking about "servo wave", albeit I think there is no difference with clearance - just better lever leverage which will be especially helpful if you need to break heavily from the hoods. 105 Di2 doesn't have that, only Ultegra. My GRX 820 supposedly has servo wave, but for some reason 11 speed GRX Di2 levers on my friend's bike seen to brake considerably better from the hoods. Maybe better construction thanks to more space? That (and Gamin control from levers) is why I'd really like Ultegra Di2 for my road bike. But I have a Terra 2x12 and road wheelset for it as well, guess I'd better spend that money on some trips etc. But I'm curious how a real road bike rides and a bit lazy with wheel changes. Also it's a gravel bike, gets dirty - clean enough to take for a next gravel ride, but will look shitty with clean road wheels. And when switching wheels on a dirty bike grime attacks greased thru axle threads... Need to rent a decent road bike, put my wheels on and check what the difference is.
Our local bike shops don’t stock small parts or service certain components such as suspension forks and brakes, they send it away. I tried to get some brake olives and other Shimano brake parts and not one shop in town had what I needed, I had to buy a complete brake hose kit at $80 rather than 20 for the individual parts. Same as my suspension parts, they don’t want to sell it to you over the counter, and they don’t seem to like to sell any overtrain components unless they are 1x…….totally useless for the average rider. Then they don’t stock things like brake pads for bikes they sell….. I want to buy local, but they just are not providing the service for after market, they prefer to sell you a new bike every time you get a flat tyre…..
What people also forget is the quality and tech trickle down to lower level groupsets and components. For example, the Acera derailleur of today is different and better than it was 25 years ago. For anyone who's not a pro MTB rider, an Acera groupset is good enough. Today's Sora and Tiagra groupsets are better than they were years ago as well; a Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is equal to, if not better than, the Shimano 600 groupset (Ultegra predecessor) of yesteryear. Tech and quality trickles down, Folks! People need to ask themselves if their bikes and/or components will fulfill their needs? If the answer is yes, then that's good enough. I'm not opposed to electronic shifting, disc brakes, or carbon fiber bikes and wheels. The tech advances are wonderful and necessary; as one of the panelists pointed out, if there had been no advancement, we'd still be riding single speed bikes. However, few riders really need the latest and greatest tech. For a high level amateur or pro racer, cutting edge tech make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really take advantage of what it offers a rider. Who could better use such stuff when reaching the finish line first is the ultimate goal? HOWEVER! However, for most of us riding for fitness, fun, and/or transportation, cutting edge components and bikes are overkill; if we're honest with ourselves, they exceed our abilities and skills. Don't buy the hype, Folks!
Rim brake surface wearing down is absolutely rubbish. Have had a carbon rimbrake wheelset for 5 years. 12000km. The reality is we would change the wheelset far sooner than the brake track would wear out.
The important thing is that no one asked these questions 6-7 years ago when there was a lot of money to be made off new shiny disc brake bikes and 25 wheel standards. Now 'everyone' got a disc bike and the cost of everything has gone to absurd levels it's time to ramp up the rim brake nostalgia. The truth is discs are only actually needed or useful if you intend to ride through mud and off the beaten track regularly, and even then plenty of people manage just fine on rims brakes. What a massive con it all is.
Disc brakes aren't killing cycling. The rotors and calipers are pretty standardized. The price bloat and aero proprietary parts are doing more harm. Shimano and SRAM are also hostile to R2R.
Rims do where out but I have wheels that are well in access of 30,000 miles on my commuter bike. Electronic shifting is not faster than well maintained cables, the speed of change is dictated by the cassette. Disc brakes, tubeless, and electronic shifting has moved the bike from transport that an enthusiast fix at home to a vehicle that has to be fixed by specialists. How many carbon bikes with integrated headsets are sat in a garage because it needs a £30 headset that costs £300 in labour.
Electronic shifting and disc brakes are just better. Marginally better in a lot of cases? Yeah, probably for the most part. Heavier? Yeah. More complicated? yep. It's still better, though. People want the better thing more than they want the less better thing, so they're willing to pay a premium for it. Soon it'll become standard and the price will come down, just like power windows and heating and AC systems in cars.
cable snob coz im poor ! also i get the having multiple batteries and changing out every so often but id rather not need more electronics on my bike or in my home disc isnt killing cycling , rediculous prices are
Sorry, but the issues that plague cycling industry are found in nearly every other industry. At least in cycling, not many things go outdated as quickly/if at all.
Rim brake carbon rims wearing out 'prematurely' is nonsense. I still ride a Reynolds wheelset with 150,000 km on it and still has lots of life left. Carbon brake tracks are incredibly durable - especially since the development of the better brake tracks. It's just a non-issue. It's fine to prefer discs or rim brakes, but at least base it on facts! For the money, you can get a WAAAY better rim brake bike, better components, better wheels, better frame. ON the topic of test rides - you can test drive a $100,000 car but not a $5,000 bike.
Id luv a disc bike BUT theyre a total pain in the ass, calipers are just soo much simpler - discs have been a great cash-accumulation for the cycle industry and still they're greedy enough to say they over stocked after covid.. i still ride rim WHY cause i shop around and they can be found + can be made/built up just like you can still get rim frame from China. I own 2 sets of rim wheels and they last, end of.. they still will because Colnago have now got another rim carbon frame bike out
I've been riding since 1987, I have _never_ replaced a wheel set due to brake track wear. I don't think I personally know anyone that has worn out their brake track to the point where the wheels needed replacing.
Disc brakes are a big hype unless you don't have serious rim braking skills , there is no way disc brakes are better than rim brakes. Plus with electronic shifting when your battery is dead, you are stuck in a bracket. Worn out rims this is just bs
Good Lord. Until you wear out the the breaking surface on rim break wheels at least decades have to go by. If a rim wears out quicker, you are using wrong pads. I'm a whale, 240lbs, riding rim break, alu + carbon wheels for years now - no prob whatsoever. In my 40 years of cycling I have only seen a single rim where the control dimple (alu rim) was almost close to being flat, and that rim was on the road at least 25 years, probably with sh**ty Shimano pads. Use soft pads an change them twice a year ... your rims will live forever.
I have had the same rim brake wheels during winter now for 6 years and the rims are still going strong.
You only wear the rims out if you use the brakes. And if you use the brakes, you go slower. 😘
I don't buy the wearing out of rims. I have only ever worn out rims on a commuter bike ridden through winters after many years. Rim brake bikes with decent wheels and 105 are bound to be far less expensive, and lighter, than hydraulic disc bikes with electronic gears.
I have a rim brake cyclocross/gravel bike that I'm now on my fourth set of wheels in just over a decade. I'm a clydesdale, and rode hard, in many conditions. It happens.
Horses for courses, if a bike will see lots and lots of mud/grit, and lots of braking and accelerations, yes, it will wear out. On the road, for the majority of cyclists, they won't wear a single set of wheels during a bikes lifetime. And the brand name rotors are not cheap either.
agree with you , but i have hydraulic shimano discs and they a efin awesome and 6yrs old
I've worn out two aluminum (rear) rims in my lifetime, riding on the road. It depends on whether you're willing to go out in bad weather on those rims or not.
I road through probably a rim set a year in my prime riding time (150 - 350 miles a week of riding/training) of training and then racing on the weekends so it can totally be done.. I would guess that most "casual" riders could probably take a lot longer.. BUT it is a thing depending on your volume and conditions..
The bike industry is a fashion business. Every year there is fancy new kit that you don't need but we buy it because it is shiny and new
True, but same applies to virtually every leisure activity. There will often be 2 camps, One who enjoy buying new stuff and the thrill of keeping their hobby interesting, and another who want things to stay unaltered.
@@dalerasche8769 What business is not?
Cycling is now Golf.....
Every business is the same concept. Look at the GoPro cameras. They all do the same thing but they try to add a little bit here and there.
@ 💯💯💯
Wheel rims wear out from braking? In all my years of cycling (I'm 75, and still doing the distance) I've only ever seen a couple of rims overly worn from braking. Mind you, they're metal. Ya know, like sensible people use.
A quality alloy rim is better in almost every respect for the average cyclist who has a sense of balance. Mentally and physically. And I've built up many of my own wheels over the decades.
Yeah, 65 and never wore out a rim. Brake pads, bearings, a spoke sometimes.
@@Burger1097 Indeed. Any rim I saw that was 'getting thin' was not mine, and one that been abused. The early alloy rims tended to be unhardened, and also brake pads could be meant for unalloyed steel, not quality alloy.
I'm 66 and it's never happened to me yet, wearing out a set of rims. I rode 1980 miles just this year.
Yep, 71 here, crossed U.S. three times, EU once. Owned road, touring, mtn bikes, I recently got disgusted with disc brakes and tubeless and bought a cantilever brake, tubes only, 36 spoke wheel bike. When it sits during winter, just add air, lube chain, and ride... simple beauty of the bike. PS crossed U.S., 3X and had two flats. Happy trails!☮
Neither have I worn out rims
Five road bikes and two gravel bikes all with metal wheels and rim brakes. Cheaper and easier to maintain rim brakes. I learned how to true my wheels so that is never an issue. Long live rim brakes! 🚴🏻♂️❤
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hydraulic disc brakes are super easy to maintain, a lot quicker/simpler than mechanical single, dual pivot or canti brakes.
Sorry - If an LBS won't allow test rides on items IN STOCK then let them go out of business (if selling stock production bikes is their business). I had no LBS with stock of anything I was interested in and drove 100mi to shop that let me test ride about 4 different bikes from 4 different brands in multiple sizes. I spent a good bit of time there and the bikes absolutely rode differently beyond tires or bar tape. In the end I bought a bike completely different from them than the one I specifically went to try. I bought it from them because they EARNED the sale through their selection, patience and generally being very helpful. I'll happily drive the distance again to give them a sale. Of course I order on line for lots of stuff but for items where fit matters if an LBS have it, it fits, and they aren't total dicks (as many stores sadly are), I buy it there because they've earned the difference between their price and on-line.
Yes, but you're not a time wasting scoundrel. 90% are
Wait a moment! I bought a Specialized Allez Elite, yes the rim-brake model, and rode 15'000 km. I live in the Alps, I love climbing and descending the mountains. So far i did not even hat to change my brake pads! The DT-Swiss alloy wheel will last surely last for ages considering I did not even had to change brake pads.
BULL
Yes, they will last a lifetime
Do you weigh 50 grams? 😂
I live in the flattest country on earth and have changed my pads 3-4 times over 15k km.
Edit: of course I am talking about a city bike used for commuting, it also rains alot here so that might be the reason for that
Full mechanical, Rim brake, aluminium wheels with good hubs are more than enough for 95% of road cyclists
I agree and disagree that they won’t last as long. Rim brakes wear but the batteries for the group set don’t last and they aren’t made anymore for early models of shimano
Said the same thing 5 years ago. My opinions have turned around since then.
I built a custom xcr steel rim brake bike with HED Ardennes wheels this year and I frickin love it!
@@MysticFluff1 I cycle in the Swiss alps. Sometimes I use rim brakes (ultegra), sometimes I use hydraulic disc brakes (sram rival). Most of the time, though, I use my rim brake bike and keep my disc brake bike as a back-up. I'm not a professional rider descending at 80+kmph so I never approach the force limit that either can provide. I'm sure a pro rider can take full advantage of the marginal force win of disc brakes but I'm a mere mortal mainly focused on getting to the bottom in 1 piece. Modern developments like aero carbon wheels, wireless shifting and disc brakes just give me an advantage I'll never use. The bottleneck to the time it takes me to ascend the Nufenen Pass is not the 8ms longer it takes to shift gear with a cable.
@@MysticFluff1 BS! According to that statement, cyclists just kept crashing and dying right after they spot a hill on the horizon, for 40 years or so.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. 96 % or more of riders will get a new bike before wearing out a rim. We are talking about ROAD bikes. Almost no-one rides in the rain, most people maintain their bikes, most people don't ride 10k per year. A good rim in mostly dry conditions will last AT LEAST 50-60.000 km, aluminium or carbon, doesn't matter. It's a none-issue in almost everyone's reality when riding road bikes.
After 40 years of riding bikes I’ve never replaced wheels because the brake surface was worn down. Bent rims from Pot holes and crashes are the usual reasons a wheel gets replaced.
N+1. thats the solution. Who says we can only ride rim brake or disc. I ride in the rain so I have both rim and disc.
if you ride in all weather rims brakes wear out fast and have little stopping Power. Discs all the way
@@HCMORGI Tell me you've never ridden proper rim brakes without telling me you've never ridden proper rim brakes...
Edit: I've worn out ONE pair of rims in my life. On a 55 kg electric cargo bike, ridden in literally all weather conditions including snow, packed regularly with up to almost 200 kg cargo (including me), with hydraulic rim brakes. Those were 20" and 24" rims and lasted almost 12.000 km. It took over 5 years to do that. Pretty fast, I guess...
I've worn out loads of rims over the years riding in winter. On average, I get three years' use out of a Mavic Aksium wheelset, probably 2500 miles per year at most.
The current pair are into their second winter and I can see the rims becoming slightly concave. I live somewhere hilly, with wet roads for much of the time between October and March, even when it's not actually raining.
By contrast, my summer bike - which I don't ride in the rain - has a pair of Mavic Ksyrium wheels which I bought in 2000 and which are still going strong (apart from changing the bearings).
If you ride in the wet, rim brake wheel rims will wear out.
Ok, how many people do you know that have actually worn out a old style alloy rim brake wheel set? I suppose it could happen, but would be very rare. Back in the 1980s I built a wheelset using Mavic Open Pro wheels and Campy hubs that is still fine today, 40 some years later.
Absolutely , Pete Mathews would definitely agree 👍
I burned through several Mavic rims in the 80's & 90's (a rim set a year as I recall it) but I was riding 300+ miles a week and racing in all weather and conditions (I trained in Santa Cruz CA) with a lot of rain, sea fog (salt!), and sand... cooked em off regularly BUT I think that is an edge case and NOT typical of most folks - But it can be done and I did it (the break pads would carve into the rim and create a noticeable slot so if/when you changed break pads it would shred the new ones...) a fair amount
I'm 66 years old and yet to see it happen.
1997-2007 I was riding 4000-5000 miles a year, all year round and went through quite a few alloy rims. Not that big an annual mileage but I was/am a taller heavier rider. (Well now I don't even do 1000 a year and I am much heavier!)
Worn out rims? What a joke.
*Not a big fan of braking myself.*
*I live in the mountains, so not much up here to slow down or stop for.*
*Except coffee.*
@@TenFalconsMusic Hah, see the sarcasm. but I say that I'm not a big fan of braking myself either. Some say my brakes don't work so I don't bother braking at all, just got used to SPEED! 😁
@@frankdelarosa9527
Agree, my rims will outlast me
I've done it a few times.. it can be done... but I do think it is an edge case rather than a regular thing - riding volume + conditions can really do a job on rims...
I've worn out three sets of rims in the last few years. They were aluminium, rather than steel. But still, it's not an unusual thing to happen. It's like the disc Vs the pads in terms of wear differences, you'd go through multiple sets of pads before the braking surface started to show lots of wear
Are disc brakes and electronic shifting “better?” Of course they perform better. The issue is whether they are worth all the extra money and maintenance for the entry level rider or the budget conscious rider. Having rim brake models available as an option would allow more new riders entry into the sport.
With all the thousands of great used rim brake bikes out there for sale this hardly seems like a barrior of entry for new cyclists.
@@siberian13 This may shock you to learn, but many people prefer to buy new. From a shop. Particularly when they are not knowledgeable and don’t know what they are looking for.
The question is whether they are better for all but the paid professional.
@@bradtowne2305 EXACTLY! For pro riders, cutting edge tech and components make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really make the most of it. HOWEVER! However, for the 99.9% of us riding for fitness and fun, that stuff is overkill. Is shaving a fraction of a second really necessary for us? No.
Plus, tech and quality trickle down to lower level components and groupsets anyway. A Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is better than the Shimano 600 (the Ultegra predecessor, BTW!) of yesteryear. A modern Acera derailleur is equal to the Deore of yesteryear. And so on.
A bit of BS here saying it is cheaper to have carbon wheels and disk brakes. I have been riding since the eighties and worked in bike shops I rode big miles in the oat and never wore out non carbon rims. Add in the cost of carbon wheels and disk brakes maintenance it is not cheaper.
Yep, a lot of BS, especially when you need a mech to remove a chattering disc, or figuring out your new pads picked up a piece of gravel that dug a groove in the pad. Tubeless, I've spent hours cleaning, taping, trying to install and seat poor tire and rim combinations. The tolerances are close for the systems to work nicely, and when you replace a tire it's not that simple with tubeless. I've toured over 10,000 miles on four tours, and got two flat tires with tubes, 10 minute repair. Canti brakes by Paul, Velocity Dyad rims, Schwalbe Marathons keeps bikes simple.
@Mike-vd2qt definitely a lot of BS here, but Nic has a business of course he won't promote rim brake bikes I've worn out 1 set of wheels over 50 years of riding.
Nothing wrong with rim brakes,nothing wrong with disc brakes. A lot of people won't even wear out a set of tyres before they sell it or permanently park it up. But,they have still made bikes cheaper for everyone else.
Cycling innovation fails the test of not knowingly complicating complexities. Peak road bike for most was probably about 2016 when I was lucky enough to get a Wilier GTR SL for just £3,000. Light, fast, reliable and does long rides comfortably.
Depends on riding conditions, and how often you go through fluid, pads and rotors vs the cost of replacing the front rim, and a few sets of inexpensive pads in the same amount of time.
I’m with Emily. If you find your dream bike and you can afford it, buy it. I know a guy who was haggling with a LBS for his dream bike and walked away over fifty bucks. He ended up buying a different bike from another shop and spent 15 years riding the bike he didn’t want for a lousy $50.
I spent years trying to always get the best deal even if I could afford the good stuff. You end up with alot of compromises.
I finally splurged and built a 25 lb. XC bike last year. It's awesome. And makes me regret not spending more when I was younger and could really thrash it.
"Disc brake wheels don't wear out so fast": I confess that I've always been kind of a big boi, but from what I can tell, the spokes go first, even if you use a 36-spoke model. By the time you need to replace a rim, you're probably overdue to rebuild the wheel with new spokes anyway.
True, a rim track gets a lot closer to the muck than a disc rotor, but on the other hand, 1) rims have vastly more surface area than brake discs and 2) rim brakes have more leverage against wheel rotation than disc brakes have, so rim brakes don't need to work nearly as hard as disc brakes to slow the bike.
I agree that disc brakes make the use of carbon rims feasible. Disc brakes also allow you to swap wheels with different profiles more quickly, which is nice if you want a wheelset with knobby tires and sealant for chunky gravel and another wheelset to keep up with the folks on the fast road ride.
Pretty much agree. I'm actually from "opposite weight region". Maybe not a "feather", but varying in between 68 up to 75 kilos lately. My reality is that I killed wheel hubs of my road bike before I managed to wear out the rims. Not to mention being hit by car and ending up in hospitals twice so far, also trashing the bikes. Already won criminal court case, waiting for insurance money. So will be able to buy yet another bike. "Rim-brake" based one? Very likely so.. :D Just love the looks.
you will go through 10+ sets of disc brake rotors before you ever wear out a rim, guess which one will cost you 4X more?!
The front wheel on my CX bike is the original rim after ~16,000km. I've broken a few spokes. The hub, remarkably, is still fine.
In my history, I've had a few aluminum rims wear out and fail, once WHILE RIDING. Disc wheels have far better longevity if you ride in even mildly bad conditions with any regularity.
I've raced CX on carbon tubular wheels and they were light and fast, but ironically, they were terrible in mud. The braking performance was sub-standard at best, and I've had pads wear down over the course of the race and get dangerously close to the carrier touching the braking surface.
But even on the road, I can't be happier with discs. The wheel rim only has to do one thing: be structurally sound. Trying to engineer something to do two diametrically opposed things at once has always been bad news, and bike wheels are no different. My main issue with discs is that the levers still haven't come back to being as good as they were with my rim brakes.
Expensive carbon fibre bikes and components, as well as electronic groupsets, are definitely killing cycling. They are completely unnecessary for non-professional cyclists
Disc brakes can be mechanical or hydraulic and still be relatively affordable. Also, they are undeniably better in wet weather.
I’ve used disc brakes, on mtbs, since day one. Back in the day, Cannondale did the right thing and spec’d discs across their mtb ranges. The only downside -first gen Magura’s leaked a lot!
When they did work they just made sense. Mags, Hope, Shimano et al had twenty years to refine the technology before the UCI had their hissy fit about introducing them onto road bikes.
So here we are no downsides. Disc brakes perform well in all weather conditions. They’re relatively easy to maintain. Aesthetically bikes just look way cleaner.
I'm always tempted to do something like upgrade my wheels. Then I think about taking that money and going somewhere for a biking holiday. Multiple night hotel lodgings and some nice meals out somewhere I don't normally ride.
It would still be nice to have a choice between rim or disc when buying a new bike but even entry level are becoming disc only now.
I have never walked out to my garage and found the charge on my mechanical group set depleted.
Electronic gears are simply better. But when you consider what goes into those systems, they are massively over-priced. Disc brakes perform better and they are the reason we now have road bikes that can accept wider tires.
Campagnolo Record had long reach side pull brakes in 1980, I had them on my touring bike with 700X38 in 1984. I've toured across the U.S. three times and EU once, had two flat tires on four tours of approximately 10,000 miles. Two flats, 10 minutes each to repair, vs Tubeless and three hours of cleaning rims, taping tubeless, new valves, fitting and seating poorly matched rims and tires. Granted in Texas and New Mexico, and some Upper Midwest in Nebraska where Goat Head thorns are present tubeless is perfect. Otherwise, tubeless is a pain, and takes more money and time.
Uh, MTBs have had rim brakes and fat tires for DECADES! Why do you think cantilever and linear pull brakes were invented? To accommodate the wider tires and wheels of MTBs.
@@markymarknj I probably should have written aerodynamic road bikes.
For demoing bikes, my opinion is that the bike shop can charge a fee for the bike demo and the fee can roll into the final purchase. Here bike demoing doesn't mean just a quick spin around the neighborhood. Instead the customer should be able to take it out for the full day to have a proper ride
That's a great idea
Those of us who prefer mechanical bicycles can take heart because there are still single-speed, fixed gear and 3-speed hub gears available today. That older, tried and tested, technology does not go away completely.
Any “super bike” from 9 speed forward does just fine on the average weekly group ride. Many of those bikes were never ridden much. My 2009 Giant does just fine for 150-200 miles a week.
Christ, it's almost like Nick sells electronic groupsets, disk brakes and carbon wheels. Consider this carefully before taking his advice.
A more charitable take is that he sells what he believes in. Which happens to have the highest price and widest profit margin, but still.
Yes, Nick is so proud of the things he is SELLING. I wouldn't recommend his advice on anything
That smirk doesn't make me think 'sincere'.
I only have one bike. Biggest problem is tire clearance. I ride it where I really shouldn’t but it always does the job. Just wish I could run a bit wider tire.
I purchased a grx 810 mechanical groupset. So happy! Never felt such smooth shifting.
While I do get your points on why you don't offer test rides, from a new cyclist's perspective, I can't fathom paying thousands for a bike that I have NO idea of whether or not it works for me. I trainer tells me shit! I've purchased two bikes (both Trek) in less than 12 months, both of which were sold after a test ride. Then, in the last two weeks, I've shopped two different dealers (one Trek, one Specialized) for yet another bike (third in less than 12 months) both of which readily offered a test ride. One of those even had a different size brought in just so I could compare two sizes of the same bike. To me, THAT is what a LBS is ALL about, as opposed to a direct to consumer brand. And THAT was the LBS developing a relationship with ME, and not the other way around. And guess what! As a result, they have a loyal customer for life! I don't mind paying a little more to get that level of customer service. Without a test ride, I may as well just say, "Meh, I'll just order online and take my chances while saving some cash"....
I once learnt of a customer who bought a bike for his sister the same time he bought his own, both of which are the same model: Specialized Aethos (forgot whether one or both are S-Works versions)
His sister rode her bike a few times and after one tumble, she called it quits. This bike is now his.
I still ride my Bianchi Nirone 7 Aluminium all round with rim brakes, I love it.
Nothing wrong with mechanical groupsets, I'm considering the 105 12 speed for my older giant defy. The money you save you can upgrade your wheelset.
Hmmm, is there a 12s 105 mechanical? There is 11s mechanical, but 12s - weren't they all Di2 ones?
I have the new 12 speed 105 Mechanical (R7100) on my new bike.
I got it last year sweet as a nut
I rode a rim brake road bike for 4 years and I have nothing to complain about that. This year, I moved to a disk break road bike, I feel so much comfortable on down hills with my new bike. I’m not good on down hills, maybe because of that I feel more comfortable with disk breaks.
I often ride with a wheelset my father laced when he was racing... in 1975 (early Shimano hubs with Mavic Module E rims). I also used them as backup wheels. So, those rims are 50 years old and they're still prefectly usable, on a vintage bike of course. One thing not to be forgotten is keep the pads clean!
I have no problem with disc brakes but wish we still had a rim brake option.
I love the electronic group set
My 8 year old Giant TCX/SX's only original parts are the stem and handlebar. The bike continually renews itself ( well , I upgrade when necessary or affordable or " man , that is just so suited to my age and riding style " )and it brings me even more fun and joy when I ride. I'm 72 and have last week's broken rib to exemplify this. And the secret to buying/upgrading/maintaining ? Find a really good bike shop and stick with them.
Great video! I ride a 2014 Cannondale SSE with mechanical 105 and a lot of this video rings true.
The drivetrain is still faultless but I've upgraded the handlebars, tyres and pedals.
The frame has external cabling so Di2 is impossible, and frame clearance limits it to 25mm tyres. Its rim brakes mean I have such limited scope in upgrading wheelsets as no local bike shops near me do rim brake wheelsets.
The bike has served me so well, but I guess I will have to move with the times and eventually look to buy a whole new bike, but the market value for an equivalent bike and similar groupset is just so expensive! 😢
Rim wear isn't a realistic problem for the vast majority of cyclists.
Disc Rotors are very much more expensive than the occasional new wheelset, especially for „average Joe“ riders.
You need to replace brake pads, rotors and brake fluid vs just pads with rim brakes. Rim brake pads will last twice to thrice as long as disc brake pads do.
Trying stuff out in a bricks and mortar shop and then buying online is pretty skeezy IMO. If I try something in a shop and they have what I want, I'm buying it there. I buy stuff online, too, but only when I'm buying a replacement for something I already have experience with, or when I'm willing to take my chances and deal with the possible hassle of online returns.
YES! If my LBS has what I want, I buy from them. Especially if it's something that one should try on before buying, like a bike, a trip to the LBS is worth it. Who cares if it costs more, provided it fits your body type and the type of riding you do? The advice a LBS can give is PRICELESS!
.
*Knowing I can pretty much work on my group set without an electrician or £1.5k for replacement parts is liberating.*
I refuse to buy a disk brake bike. They require more maintenance, tools and skills that I don't need if I use rim brakes. They work just fine. Never wore out a set of rims from rim brakes so far and I'm 66 years old. They don't wear out. What a joke.
Good advice on upgrading and looking at a bike in terms of (1) frame, (2) wheels and or tires, (3) groupset, (4) bars and seat.
Frame is lowest bang for buck.
Rim break fans on here must be all fair weather riders. Nothing beats the stopping power of discs in the wet.
@@toolazytoo Most amateur road riders ARE fair weather riders... If you're not, you're the exception. Buy disc brakes, by all means. And then slide out in the wet because the stopping power is to great...
It depends on the conditions where you live. If you live somewhere that's relatively flat and rolling -- with predictable weather -- like I do-- disc brakes seem like overkill. I 've ridden 12,000k this year and, let me think, hmm, I rode in the rain three times.🤔
Disk rider here, and I have never, ever used more than 70% braking force as the problem is that the tyres just give and you slip and slide - happened recently in Portugal, didn't know the road and came to a 90 degree corner at speed and my newish GP5000 just fishtailed. I always use 25% to 35% force and brake with both levers evenly. RIM brakes are just as effective - unless you have carbon rims in the wet of course.
Yes 😊
Who the hack likes riding in the rain? 😂
Brakes are for decelerating if your hands get tired or you don’t have the grip strength to lockup your brakes in a dangerous situation disc brakes are for you. If you are a racer I would recommend disc so you could brake a little later in the corners. For the majority of cyclists rim brakes because they are effective and easy to maintain.
Also, YOU ARE INSANE if you want someone to spend $10k & NOT test ride a bike for 30 days.
Talking absolute rubbish about rim brake wheels 😂
I rode thousands of miles on Mavic Open4CD wheels in all weather's never worn a rim down 😂
Instead of having several complete bikes hanging, I'd eventually like to get it down to two wheelsets (gravel/road) and a bunch of hanging frames with components. Then I just drop whichever frame I want to ride that day onto the wheels. Saves me some room.
Expensive fancy stuff doesn't make you a cyclist. Its getting out there a pedaling every day/week that makes you a cyclist.
I'm still riding my old Schwinn Le Tour. Hi-Ten frame, downtube shifters, all the old stuff. Been riding this bike since 1997.
nick is so right. tyre pressure makes way more difference than most other factors. followed by fit...but then I would say that.
I don't think its a case of disc brakes themselves but a heading towards being overly complicated systems of what's meant to be a simple machine, I use full mechanical disc brakes which are more than enough to bring you to a full stop going downhill at 30mph on tarmac despite what I was told, set up is everything.
I have never worn out a aluminum rim, I have repaired freehubs yes but never the rim. I own a pair of Zondas that just lasted and lasted.. Daily UK winter training, multiple trips to Mallorca up and down Sa Calobra and Puig Major, 6 months cycling in south east asia (Hot, wet, humid and near the sea). the rear wheel is somewhere in my workshop no doubt still fine, the front is on my Zwift bike..
Well, I totally agree with the point about upgrading your current bike rather than bying a new one in "the same" price category (unless it has modern tech you can upgrade later on), but the ever increasing pressure for new/ expensive tech just for the sake of it is nothing but driving the base-price up.
Not to mention the weight gains.
To were out an alu. rim brake surface takes a long time, and the cost of replacing a rim is slim compared to upgrading your bike. The frame, group set, and wheels are completely different (and did I mention the weight?).
I love your content a lot, and you admit to be bias, but going from a singlespeedbike to one with gearing can never be seen as the same as going from a light rimbrake bike with mechanical shifting, to a heavyer bike with disk brakes and electronic shifting. Both probably have a similar gear ratio as well.
I love the old rim brake bikes.
The only one i can run straight pull spokes on. 😉🤙
While wearing a Princeton jersey... Rim brakes are not the issue, online discounts are the issue.
Brake pads for disks pads (the wear items) are the same price or cheaper than rim brake pads, except at the highest end, which is pointless anyways. Hydraulic fluid is cheap, and cables do wear anyways. We can talk about electronic groupsets and all that jam, but I strongly doubt diskbrakes even add a single dollar to a manufacturer's cost to produce for road bikes. MT201 disk brakes (preloaded) are available for cheaper in the US than 105 rim brakes caliper only.
As a mountainbiker, the whole discussion and whining is ridiculous! Yes, I‘m not going to buy an electronic shift group in the next five years unless they become waaay cheaper, but disc brakes? I can’t imagine any con against it.
Are all Roadies Retro Grouches bemoaning the good old times?
Exactly, roadies will look down on you if you have discs because they’re of the opnion nobody needs them 😂
Do disk brakes load up the front fork under braking reducing the flex and grip? Forks are meant to flex keeping tyre contact over bumps. Should bikes have rear disk only?
No and no.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 YES and no. Yes, because of course they load up the fork. That is physics... That's why forks for disc brakes are constructed differently and are much stiffer, therefore reducing flex and traction and increasing vibration, hence why you need bigger tires to make up for the mess you didn't need to create in the first place...
No, because the breaking power of disc brakes is already too great with slim tires, so there is absolutely no need for them in the rear, which is even less used when breaking.
@ Nope. The fork is equally loaded, regardless of the brake type. The force is a function of the rider, the vector, and the frame (thru which the fork and stem bear the load. There is also an issue of brake balance. Braking two wheels is more effective than just one. The forces are handled through two contact patches after all.
Never been convinced about disc brakes being cheaper than rim brakes just because of brake track wear. Carbon rims (from e.g. Farsports or Lightbicycle) are in the neighborhood of $200 each while a single rotor+pad swap can be around $100 per wheel (not to mention bleeds), while rim brake pads are about $15/wheel and are trivial to install. Beyond that there's the sticker price premium (back when they still sold both versions) which on its own would probably cover one set of new rims. And last but not least brake track wear is far from the only way to trash a rim.
Disc brakes have some real advantages over rim brakes (and vice versa) but the specific argument that they're cheaper in the long run is usually presented in such an incomplete way that it just seems like shilling.
Roadies are so funny. Its 2024, XC mountain bikes are starting to have geometry similar to enduro bikes from 5 years ago and you guys are arguing about disc brakes still. Disc brakes perform better and are similarly priced to rim brakes at this point in time.
Rims wear out but my race wheels are over 10 years old and still have minimal wear, they are retired to the cross bike now .. I wouldn't use decent wheels for winter riding , chain gangs etc anyway, too much opportunity for destruction.
If you can only afford one bike ( lack of cash or storage) then fair enough getting a disc bike might make sense otherwise makes no odds for most of us.
I've got 2 cx bikes, the rim brake one is quicker, even if it's muddy ( unless it's clay and hay😂)
Ive always approached it like trigs broom. Its just made sense to me.
I’m one of the luddites out there who will never have anything electronic on my bike. Until I get old and buy an e-bike
I’d always come to a bike shop. They look after you 😊
Imagine if UCI didn't ban disc brakes for road bikes. We might get wide tires (can't beat the comfort), tubeless tires, and hydraulic disc brakes cheaper from the used market.
The good things about electronic drivetrains are multiple speeds like wheeltop (I can't believe the Chinese brand demonstrates the possibility), full wireless shifting with an interchangeable battery like SRAM, a 2x setup in a single button shift, and auto adjustment for chain rub. The problem is we can't get them all in one groupset (patent issue probably).
?
The entry cost for disc brakes and electronic shifting aren't really in the same ballpark. Lots of really cheap bikes come with good shimano hydro discs, especially true for flat bar bikes (anything "road" gets an automatic premium). There's no budget option for shimano electronic shifting like there is for disc brakes.
I’ve been riding for over 17 years and I don’t think I have had any rim brake wheel sets ever wear out to the point that they need to be replaced, and I’ve ridden tens of thousands of miles in my years.
Also, your disc doesn’t just get slightly cooked, they completely warp and go completely out of true 😂😂😂
I would never buy a high end bike from a store without a test ride. People constantly complain about prices, but that's extremely poor customer service. You don't have the ability to make an informed decision otherwise. When I purchased my new bike last year, I test rode a Tarmac SL7 Expert and SL8 Pro. The SL8 was clearly the more comfortable bike and the bike shop made a larger sale. Win-win situation!
I have a couple of older rimbrake bikes, Madone 4.3 and 2011 Infinito. It's fat enough around here I'll never wear out those rims.
My bike shop takes great care of me. That comes with a price IMO. I'm willing to pay a few dollars more at the shop, knowing I could get some things cheaper on line, to get that outstanding service. Most often they surprise me with a slight discount at the register.
I'm with NICK when it comes to "SHOWROOMING" Sadly, people should shop for a SHOP rather than a bike. Once you've found the right shop, they'll help you buy the right bike based on your budget, maybe one you never considered!
While what he says is true, that if you spend 1500$ now and 1500$ in 3 years you are getting nearly the same bike. Imo you are better off saving the money till you have more becaus the upgrade path while sounding fun and it could work. In the long game it will actually be a lot more expensive for the end user. and everytime you need to upgrade and move, for example, your groupset to another frame, or change the stem/handlebars and need to re route everything, guess who is getting a cut every time.
Wheeltop EDS rim brake electronic groupset.. Underrated 🚲💨
Black Friday just passed. Not the worst time to buy stuff, I’d reckon.
I wanted to buy a new carbon-frame road bike this year, but I did not want hydraulic disk brakes and tubeless tires because of the costs of purchase and maintenance. There were no all-carbon alternatives among the Trek bikes.
I’m not completely broke and I like comfort. That’s why I go for disc brakes, Di2 electronic gears and carbon wheels,.
What does comfort have to do with that?
@@ridley8340less lever throw and programmable FD shifting with 2x electric groupsets. Disc brakes are less affected by rain or wet conditions.
@@ridley8340modern carbon wheels tend to have wider internals than older alloy ones, just because of the trend of ever-widening tyres and a better understanding of why wider tyres are a good idea. I can run wider tyres, lower pressures and be noticeably faster and more comfortable on my carbon hoops than I have been on any number of aluminium ones I've had in the past. That's not to say you can't get good alu wheels of course, but for stuff that's performative and also includes those nice comfort gains, carbon has been the best option for a while
@@drill_fiend1097 You do you and enjoy it but after 40 years of racing bikes I have never felt a lack of comfort due to rim brakes or mechanical gears
Older generation discs like the 105 7000 series were crap. The newer generation with what I call 'reverse exponential pull ratio' (just made that up!), where the initial part of the lever movement gives a lot of pad movement and the latter part of the lever movement gives less pad movement for more power and modulation. This means you have more pad to rotor clearance without excessive lever movement before the pads touch the rotor, so you don't get any brake rub. I'm not sure if the newer 105 12 speed mechanical is like this but I've got my fingers crossed so I don't have to shell out for the 105 di2 just to get decent brakes!
Sounds that you're talking about "servo wave", albeit I think there is no difference with clearance - just better lever leverage which will be especially helpful if you need to break heavily from the hoods. 105 Di2 doesn't have that, only Ultegra. My GRX 820 supposedly has servo wave, but for some reason 11 speed GRX Di2 levers on my friend's bike seen to brake considerably better from the hoods. Maybe better construction thanks to more space? That (and Gamin control from levers) is why I'd really like Ultegra Di2 for my road bike. But I have a Terra 2x12 and road wheelset for it as well, guess I'd better spend that money on some trips etc. But I'm curious how a real road bike rides and a bit lazy with wheel changes. Also it's a gravel bike, gets dirty - clean enough to take for a next gravel ride, but will look shitty with clean road wheels. And when switching wheels on a dirty bike grime attacks greased thru axle threads... Need to rent a decent road bike, put my wheels on and check what the difference is.
Our local bike shops don’t stock small parts or service certain components such as suspension forks and brakes, they send it away.
I tried to get some brake olives and other Shimano brake parts and not one shop in town had what I needed, I had to buy a complete brake hose kit at $80 rather than 20 for the individual parts.
Same as my suspension parts, they don’t want to sell it to you over the counter, and they don’t seem to like to sell any overtrain components unless they are 1x…….totally useless for the average rider.
Then they don’t stock things like brake pads for bikes they sell…..
I want to buy local, but they just are not providing the service for after market, they prefer to sell you a new bike every time you get a flat tyre…..
I've built two custom rim brake bikes in the past month.
What people also forget is the quality and tech trickle down to lower level groupsets and components. For example, the Acera derailleur of today is different and better than it was 25 years ago. For anyone who's not a pro MTB rider, an Acera groupset is good enough. Today's Sora and Tiagra groupsets are better than they were years ago as well; a Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is equal to, if not better than, the Shimano 600 groupset (Ultegra predecessor) of yesteryear. Tech and quality trickles down, Folks! People need to ask themselves if their bikes and/or components will fulfill their needs? If the answer is yes, then that's good enough.
I'm not opposed to electronic shifting, disc brakes, or carbon fiber bikes and wheels. The tech advances are wonderful and necessary; as one of the panelists pointed out, if there had been no advancement, we'd still be riding single speed bikes. However, few riders really need the latest and greatest tech. For a high level amateur or pro racer, cutting edge tech make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really take advantage of what it offers a rider. Who could better use such stuff when reaching the finish line first is the ultimate goal? HOWEVER! However, for most of us riding for fitness, fun, and/or transportation, cutting edge components and bikes are overkill; if we're honest with ourselves, they exceed our abilities and skills. Don't buy the hype, Folks!
Can you tell me which bike on the thumbnail
Rim brake surface wearing down is absolutely rubbish. Have had a carbon rimbrake wheelset for 5 years. 12000km. The reality is we would change the wheelset far sooner than the brake track would wear out.
Well, many of us, “cough-cough” are buying & hoarding 2005-2008 tech. Dependable, cool & light weight!
The important thing is that no one asked these questions 6-7 years ago when there was a lot of money to be made off new shiny disc brake bikes and 25 wheel standards. Now 'everyone' got a disc bike and the cost of everything has gone to absurd levels it's time to ramp up the rim brake nostalgia. The truth is discs are only actually needed or useful if you intend to ride through mud and off the beaten track regularly, and even then plenty of people manage just fine on rims brakes. What a massive con it all is.
Disc brakes aren't killing cycling. The rotors and calipers are pretty standardized. The price bloat and aero proprietary parts are doing more harm. Shimano and SRAM are also hostile to R2R.
Rims do where out but I have wheels that are well in access of 30,000 miles on my commuter bike.
Electronic shifting is not faster than well maintained cables, the speed of change is dictated by the cassette.
Disc brakes, tubeless, and electronic shifting has moved the bike from transport that an enthusiast fix at home to a vehicle that has to be fixed by specialists. How many carbon bikes with integrated headsets are sat in a garage because it needs a £30 headset that costs £300 in labour.
Rim brakes are good for a museum now, deal with it 😂
Last time I checked you do not stop more than once on average in a road race.
Brakes on a road bike scrub speed, they are not designed to stop.
Electronic shifting and disc brakes are just better. Marginally better in a lot of cases? Yeah, probably for the most part. Heavier? Yeah. More complicated? yep. It's still better, though. People want the better thing more than they want the less better thing, so they're willing to pay a premium for it. Soon it'll become standard and the price will come down, just like power windows and heating and AC systems in cars.
cable snob coz im poor ! also i get the having multiple batteries and changing out every so often but id rather not need more electronics on my bike or in my home
disc isnt killing cycling , rediculous prices are
Sorry, but the issues that plague cycling industry are found in nearly every other industry. At least in cycling, not many things go outdated as quickly/if at all.
Rim brake carbon rims wearing out 'prematurely' is nonsense.
I still ride a Reynolds wheelset with 150,000 km on it and still has lots of life left. Carbon brake tracks are incredibly durable - especially since the development of the better brake tracks. It's just a non-issue.
It's fine to prefer discs or rim brakes, but at least base it on facts!
For the money, you can get a WAAAY better rim brake bike, better components, better wheels, better frame.
ON the topic of test rides - you can test drive a $100,000 car but not a $5,000 bike.
It's funny/sad that Sram has electronic groupset at the same price as mechanical Shimano GRX.
I found my bike on sale for 999 and a week later was 899. The following week was sold out. Be careful playing that game
Disc brakes and cost have killed the sport, for road we only wanted a choice. My choice for road rim brakes trails downhill in South Wales disc.
Id luv a disc bike BUT theyre a total pain in the ass, calipers are just soo much simpler - discs have been a great cash-accumulation for the cycle industry and still they're greedy enough to say they over stocked after covid.. i still ride rim WHY cause i shop around and they can be found + can be made/built up just like you can still get rim frame from China. I own 2 sets of rim wheels and they last, end of.. they still will because Colnago have now got another rim carbon frame bike out
I just brought a new bike last month. I tried 4 different bikes from 4 different bike shops, they all allow me to try them on the road.
I've been riding since 1987, I have _never_ replaced a wheel set due to brake track wear. I don't think I personally know anyone that has worn out their brake track to the point where the wheels needed replacing.
Disc brakes are a big hype unless you don't have serious rim braking skills , there is no way disc brakes are better than rim brakes. Plus with electronic shifting when your battery is dead, you are stuck in a bracket. Worn out rims this is just bs
Good Lord. Until you wear out the the breaking surface on rim break wheels at least decades have to go by. If a rim wears out quicker, you are using wrong pads. I'm a whale, 240lbs, riding rim break, alu + carbon wheels for years now - no prob whatsoever. In my 40 years of cycling I have only seen a single rim where the control dimple (alu rim) was almost close to being flat, and that rim was on the road at least 25 years, probably with sh**ty Shimano pads. Use soft pads an change them twice a year ... your rims will live forever.
Hundreds of millions of rim brake bikes sold and the percentage that have had the rims worn out, 0.000000003%. Just my wild guess.
i like rim brake but trying to find replacement rim brake wheels is kinda pain in the butt where i live which is why i use disc brake.
but thankfully i do enjoy mechanical disc brake so it's not a huge issue.