True, but same applies to virtually every leisure activity. There will often be 2 camps, One who enjoy buying new stuff and the thrill of keeping their hobby interesting, and another who want things to stay unaltered.
I agree and disagree that they won’t last as long. Rim brakes wear but the batteries for the group set don’t last and they aren’t made anymore for early models of shimano
@@MysticFluff1 I cycle in the Swiss alps. Sometimes I use rim brakes (ultegra), sometimes I use hydraulic disc brakes (sram rival). Most of the time, though, I use my rim brake bike and keep my disc brake bike as a back-up. I'm not a professional rider descending at 80+kmph so I never approach the force limit that either can provide. I'm sure a pro rider can take full advantage of the marginal force win of disc brakes but I'm a mere mortal mainly focused on getting to the bottom in 1 piece. Modern developments like aero carbon wheels, wireless shifting and disc brakes just give me an advantage I'll never use. The bottleneck to the time it takes me to ascend the Nufenen Pass is not the 8ms longer it takes to shift gear with a cable.
Wheel rims wear out from braking? In all my years of cycling (I'm 75, and still doing the distance) I've only ever seen a couple of rims overly worn from braking. Mind you, they're metal. Ya know, like sensible people use. A quality alloy rim is better in almost every respect for the average cyclist who has a sense of balance. Mentally and physically. And I've built up many of my own wheels over the decades.
@@Burger1097 Indeed. Any rim I saw that was 'getting thin' was not mine, and one that been abused. The early alloy rims tended to be unhardened, and also brake pads could be meant for unalloyed steel, not quality alloy.
Yep, 71 here, crossed U.S. three times, EU once. Owned road, touring, mtn bikes, I recently got disgusted with disc brakes and tubeless and bought a cantilever brake, tubes only, 36 spoke wheel bike. When it sits during winter, just add air, lube chain, and ride... simple beauty of the bike. PS crossed U.S., 3X and had two flats. Happy trails!☮
Those rim brake rims will probably last longer than the O-Rings in a hydraulic system. The ceramic plungers in the hydraulic caliper that push together to grip the rotor will get stuck and you'll have to replace the caliper. To say disc wheels are better because they don't wear out and rim brakes do is a load of crap. The tech didn't need to change for everyone.
I don't buy the wearing out of rims. I have only ever worn out rims on a commuter bike ridden through winters after many years. Rim brake bikes with decent wheels and 105 are bound to be far less expensive, and lighter, than hydraulic disc bikes with electronic gears.
I have a rim brake cyclocross/gravel bike that I'm now on my fourth set of wheels in just over a decade. I'm a clydesdale, and rode hard, in many conditions. It happens.
Horses for courses, if a bike will see lots and lots of mud/grit, and lots of braking and accelerations, yes, it will wear out. On the road, for the majority of cyclists, they won't wear a single set of wheels during a bikes lifetime. And the brand name rotors are not cheap either.
I've worn out two aluminum (rear) rims in my lifetime, riding on the road. It depends on whether you're willing to go out in bad weather on those rims or not.
I road through probably a rim set a year in my prime riding time (150 - 350 miles a week of riding/training) of training and then racing on the weekends so it can totally be done.. I would guess that most "casual" riders could probably take a lot longer.. BUT it is a thing depending on your volume and conditions..
Are disc brakes and electronic shifting “better?” Of course they perform better. The issue is whether they are worth all the extra money and maintenance for the entry level rider or the budget conscious rider. Having rim brake models available as an option would allow more new riders entry into the sport.
@@siberian13 This may shock you to learn, but many people prefer to buy new. From a shop. Particularly when they are not knowledgeable and don’t know what they are looking for.
@@bradtowne2305 EXACTLY! For pro riders, cutting edge tech and components make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really make the most of it. HOWEVER! However, for the 99.9% of us riding for fitness and fun, that stuff is overkill. Is shaving a fraction of a second really necessary for us? No. Plus, tech and quality trickle down to lower level components and groupsets anyway. A Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is better than the Shimano 600 (the Ultegra predecessor, BTW!) of yesteryear. A modern Acera derailleur is equal to the Deore of yesteryear. And so on.
Five road bikes and two gravel bikes all with metal wheels and rim brakes. Cheaper and easier to maintain rim brakes. I learned how to true my wheels so that is never an issue. Long live rim brakes! 🚴🏻♂️❤
@@chrisclark7181 someone has drank the koolaid. One of my bikes has paul component mini moto, you cannot tell me there is a simpler easier to maintain disc system than that!
Sorry - If an LBS won't allow test rides on items IN STOCK then let them go out of business (if selling stock production bikes is their business). I had no LBS with stock of anything I was interested in and drove 100mi to shop that let me test ride about 4 different bikes from 4 different brands in multiple sizes. I spent a good bit of time there and the bikes absolutely rode differently beyond tires or bar tape. In the end I bought a bike completely different from them than the one I specifically went to try. I bought it from them because they EARNED the sale through their selection, patience and generally being very helpful. I'll happily drive the distance again to give them a sale. Of course I order on line for lots of stuff but for items where fit matters if an LBS have it, it fits, and they aren't total dicks (as many stores sadly are), I buy it there because they've earned the difference between their price and on-line.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. 96 % or more of riders will get a new bike before wearing out a rim. We are talking about ROAD bikes. Almost no-one rides in the rain, most people maintain their bikes, most people don't ride 10k per year. A good rim in mostly dry conditions will last AT LEAST 50-60.000 km, aluminium or carbon, doesn't matter. It's a none-issue in almost everyone's reality when riding road bikes.
After 40 years of riding bikes I’ve never replaced wheels because the brake surface was worn down. Bent rims from Pot holes and crashes are the usual reasons a wheel gets replaced.
@@HCMORGI Tell me you've never ridden proper rim brakes without telling me you've never ridden proper rim brakes... Edit: I've worn out ONE pair of rims in my life. On a 55 kg electric cargo bike, ridden in literally all weather conditions including snow, packed regularly with up to almost 200 kg cargo (including me), with hydraulic rim brakes. Those were 20" and 24" rims and lasted almost 12.000 km. It took over 5 years to do that. Pretty fast, I guess...
I've worn out loads of rims over the years riding in winter. On average, I get three years' use out of a Mavic Aksium wheelset, probably 2500 miles per year at most. The current pair are into their second winter and I can see the rims becoming slightly concave. I live somewhere hilly, with wet roads for much of the time between October and March, even when it's not actually raining. By contrast, my summer bike - which I don't ride in the rain - has a pair of Mavic Ksyrium wheels which I bought in 2000 and which are still going strong (apart from changing the bearings). If you ride in the wet, rim brake wheel rims will wear out.
Wait a moment! I bought a Specialized Allez Elite, yes the rim-brake model, and rode 15'000 km. I live in the Alps, I love climbing and descending the mountains. So far i did not even hat to change my brake pads! The DT-Swiss alloy wheel will last surely last for ages considering I did not even had to change brake pads.
Do you weigh 50 grams? 😂 I live in the flattest country on earth and have changed my pads 3-4 times over 15k km. Edit: of course I am talking about a city bike used for commuting, it also rains alot here so that might be the reason for that
@smeshsmesh9695 Yes, i think they ware out a lot quicker in the rain. You can really see the black debry after a ride in wet conditions. Like mentioned, i hardly ride in the rain. 🌞
Ok, how many people do you know that have actually worn out a old style alloy rim brake wheel set? I suppose it could happen, but would be very rare. Back in the 1980s I built a wheelset using Mavic Open Pro wheels and Campy hubs that is still fine today, 40 some years later.
I burned through several Mavic rims in the 80's & 90's (a rim set a year as I recall it) but I was riding 300+ miles a week and racing in all weather and conditions (I trained in Santa Cruz CA) with a lot of rain, sea fog (salt!), and sand... cooked em off regularly BUT I think that is an edge case and NOT typical of most folks - But it can be done and I did it (the break pads would carve into the rim and create a noticeable slot so if/when you changed break pads it would shred the new ones...) a fair amount
1997-2007 I was riding 4000-5000 miles a year, all year round and went through quite a few alloy rims. Not that big an annual mileage but I was/am a taller heavier rider. (Well now I don't even do 1000 a year and I am much heavier!)
True, I did however walk out of my garage and found that the gear shifts were fucked. So I had to go back and do a cable change. I also hate how the cable shifting loses tension and you have to keep adjusting it. You just never have the ***same*** performance on every ride. Hopefully someday I can afford electronic.
@@seraph4581 If the bike had been set up and maintained properly none of what you have described could have happened. Apart from the rear mech being knocked hard enough to bend the hanger, properly set up gears can't go out of adjustment. If you knock an electronic derailleur hard enough to bend the hanger, electronic gears go out of adjustment just the same as mechanical.
I'm always tempted to do something like upgrade my wheels. Then I think about taking that money and going somewhere for a biking holiday. Multiple night hotel lodgings and some nice meals out somewhere I don't normally ride.
My 8 year old Giant TCX/SX's only original parts are the stem and handlebar. The bike continually renews itself ( well , I upgrade when necessary or affordable or " man , that is just so suited to my age and riding style " )and it brings me even more fun and joy when I ride. I'm 72 and have last week's broken rib to exemplify this. And the secret to buying/upgrading/maintaining ? Find a really good bike shop and stick with them.
"Disc brake wheels don't wear out so fast": I confess that I've always been kind of a big boi, but from what I can tell, the spokes go first, even if you use a 36-spoke model. By the time you need to replace a rim, you're probably overdue to rebuild the wheel with new spokes anyway. True, a rim track gets a lot closer to the muck than a disc rotor, but on the other hand, 1) rims have vastly more surface area than brake discs and 2) rim brakes have more leverage against wheel rotation than disc brakes have, so rim brakes don't need to work nearly as hard as disc brakes to slow the bike. I agree that disc brakes make the use of carbon rims feasible. Disc brakes also allow you to swap wheels with different profiles more quickly, which is nice if you want a wheelset with knobby tires and sealant for chunky gravel and another wheelset to keep up with the folks on the fast road ride.
Pretty much agree. I'm actually from "opposite weight region". Maybe not a "feather", but varying in between 68 up to 75 kilos lately. My reality is that I killed wheel hubs of my road bike before I managed to wear out the rims. Not to mention being hit by car and ending up in hospitals twice so far, also trashing the bikes. Already won criminal court case, waiting for insurance money. So will be able to buy yet another bike. "Rim-brake" based one? Very likely so.. :D Just love the looks.
The front wheel on my CX bike is the original rim after ~16,000km. I've broken a few spokes. The hub, remarkably, is still fine. In my history, I've had a few aluminum rims wear out and fail, once WHILE RIDING. Disc wheels have far better longevity if you ride in even mildly bad conditions with any regularity. I've raced CX on carbon tubular wheels and they were light and fast, but ironically, they were terrible in mud. The braking performance was sub-standard at best, and I've had pads wear down over the course of the race and get dangerously close to the carrier touching the braking surface. But even on the road, I can't be happier with discs. The wheel rim only has to do one thing: be structurally sound. Trying to engineer something to do two diametrically opposed things at once has always been bad news, and bike wheels are no different. My main issue with discs is that the levers still haven't come back to being as good as they were with my rim brakes.
A bit of BS here saying it is cheaper to have carbon wheels and disk brakes. I have been riding since the eighties and worked in bike shops I rode big miles in the oat and never wore out non carbon rims. Add in the cost of carbon wheels and disk brakes maintenance it is not cheaper.
Yep, a lot of BS, especially when you need a mech to remove a chattering disc, or figuring out your new pads picked up a piece of gravel that dug a groove in the pad. Tubeless, I've spent hours cleaning, taping, trying to install and seat poor tire and rim combinations. The tolerances are close for the systems to work nicely, and when you replace a tire it's not that simple with tubeless. I've toured over 10,000 miles on four tours, and got two flat tires with tubes, 10 minute repair. Canti brakes by Paul, Velocity Dyad rims, Schwalbe Marathons keeps bikes simple.
@Mike-vd2qt definitely a lot of BS here, but Nic has a business of course he won't promote rim brake bikes I've worn out 1 set of wheels over 50 years of riding.
Rims ware out? I have the same bike for over 40 years riden on pavement, gravel and trails. The rear spokes have fatigued and been replaced many times. I have fatiged and had spokes pull out of two hubs, one of which was a Campy. The original rims are definetly warn but still servicable.
I rode a rim brake road bike for 4 years and I have nothing to complain about that. This year, I moved to a disk break road bike, I feel so much comfortable on down hills with my new bike. I’m not good on down hills, maybe because of that I feel more comfortable with disk breaks.
I’ve used disc brakes, on mtbs, since day one. Back in the day, Cannondale did the right thing and spec’d discs across their mtb ranges. The only downside -first gen Magura’s leaked a lot! When they did work they just made sense. Mags, Hope, Shimano et al had twenty years to refine the technology before the UCI had their hissy fit about introducing them onto road bikes. So here we are no downsides. Disc brakes perform well in all weather conditions. They’re relatively easy to maintain. Aesthetically bikes just look way cleaner.
Depends on riding conditions, and how often you go through fluid, pads and rotors vs the cost of replacing the front rim, and a few sets of inexpensive pads in the same amount of time.
While I do get your points on why you don't offer test rides, from a new cyclist's perspective, I can't fathom paying thousands for a bike that I have NO idea of whether or not it works for me. I trainer tells me shit! I've purchased two bikes (both Trek) in less than 12 months, both of which were sold after a test ride. Then, in the last two weeks, I've shopped two different dealers (one Trek, one Specialized) for yet another bike (third in less than 12 months) both of which readily offered a test ride. One of those even had a different size brought in just so I could compare two sizes of the same bike. To me, THAT is what a LBS is ALL about, as opposed to a direct to consumer brand. And THAT was the LBS developing a relationship with ME, and not the other way around. And guess what! As a result, they have a loyal customer for life! I don't mind paying a little more to get that level of customer service. Without a test ride, I may as well just say, "Meh, I'll just order online and take my chances while saving some cash"....
I once learnt of a customer who bought a bike for his sister the same time he bought his own, both of which are the same model: Specialized Aethos (forgot whether one or both are S-Works versions) His sister rode her bike a few times and after one tumble, she called it quits. This bike is now his.
I’m with Emily. If you find your dream bike and you can afford it, buy it. I know a guy who was haggling with a LBS for his dream bike and walked away over fifty bucks. He ended up buying a different bike from another shop and spent 15 years riding the bike he didn’t want for a lousy $50.
I spent years trying to always get the best deal even if I could afford the good stuff. You end up with alot of compromises. I finally splurged and built a 25 lb. XC bike last year. It's awesome. And makes me regret not spending more when I was younger and could really thrash it.
I only have one bike. Biggest problem is tire clearance. I ride it where I really shouldn’t but it always does the job. Just wish I could run a bit wider tire.
Good advice on upgrading and looking at a bike in terms of (1) frame, (2) wheels and or tires, (3) groupset, (4) bars and seat. Frame is lowest bang for buck.
Expensive carbon fibre bikes and components, as well as electronic groupsets, are definitely killing cycling. They are completely unnecessary for non-professional cyclists Disc brakes can be mechanical or hydraulic and still be relatively affordable. Also, they are undeniably better in wet weather.
I like the idea of supporting local bike shops. Most items and maintenance are relatively inexpensive. However sometimes online prices are so much lower (often for bikes or components not vocally available) that you have to go the online route
I have never worn out a aluminum rim, I have repaired freehubs yes but never the rim. I own a pair of Zondas that just lasted and lasted.. Daily UK winter training, multiple trips to Mallorca up and down Sa Calobra and Puig Major, 6 months cycling in south east asia (Hot, wet, humid and near the sea). the rear wheel is somewhere in my workshop no doubt still fine, the front is on my Zwift bike..
There are a handful of reasons I like my electronic shifting. One, it legitimately enhances the enjoyment of your riding. I do notice the enjoyment in riding. I have 2 bikes set up with Sram Force AXS and the other with CX1. 1x for both. And yes I notice the difference. This is NOT saying I dislike cables. Sometimes I prefer the solid clicking feel of the CX1 shifter. But I do notice the difference. Furthermore, electronic shifting is better for crappy weather. You dont get water or dirt ingress into non existing cables. And finally, when paired to my Garmin, I know how often I shift and where, which most people might not do anything with this information, but for me, it does. I can see where I am shifting where it might be better to stand up, or maybe shift earlier or later. For years I have had back problems while riding and believe it or not, sometimes it's cause im sitting in the saddle cranking on too hard of a gear. But I dodnt come from that conclusion until seeing my Garmin stats. And it's helped my back in the process of making me faster!
Upgrading slowly over time is the way to go. I bought a 2017 Wilier Cento 1 Cross disc brake frame in 2021. Red AxS rim brake shifters, Fulcrum Racing Quattro wheels, mechanical disc brake calipers, Rival AXS rear derailleur, it was a great bike. Over time I upgraded, got a nice set of FFWD F4D wheels, Sram Force hydraulic shifters and once I toasted it in an accident, went for a new rear derailleur. Eventually these components all ended up on a Trek Boone 2022 frame, and I put Sram Force CX1 on the other bike for cheap. Thats the way to do it.
Great video! I ride a 2014 Cannondale SSE with mechanical 105 and a lot of this video rings true. The drivetrain is still faultless but I've upgraded the handlebars, tyres and pedals. The frame has external cabling so Di2 is impossible, and frame clearance limits it to 25mm tyres. Its rim brakes mean I have such limited scope in upgrading wheelsets as no local bike shops near me do rim brake wheelsets. The bike has served me so well, but I guess I will have to move with the times and eventually look to buy a whole new bike, but the market value for an equivalent bike and similar groupset is just so expensive! 😢
I often ride with a wheelset my father laced when he was racing... in 1975 (early Shimano hubs with Mavic Module E rims). I also used them as backup wheels. So, those rims are 50 years old and they're still prefectly usable, on a vintage bike of course. One thing not to be forgotten is keep the pads clean!
Those of us who prefer mechanical bicycles can take heart because there are still single-speed, fixed gear and 3-speed hub gears available today. That older, tried and tested, technology does not go away completely.
Any “super bike” from 9 speed forward does just fine on the average weekly group ride. Many of those bikes were never ridden much. My 2009 Giant does just fine for 150-200 miles a week.
@@TenFalconsMusic Hah, see the sarcasm. but I say that I'm not a big fan of braking myself either. Some say my brakes don't work so I don't bother braking at all, just got used to SPEED! 😁
I've done it a few times.. it can be done... but I do think it is an edge case rather than a regular thing - riding volume + conditions can really do a job on rims...
I've worn out three sets of rims in the last few years. They were aluminium, rather than steel. But still, it's not an unusual thing to happen. It's like the disc Vs the pads in terms of wear differences, you'd go through multiple sets of pads before the braking surface started to show lots of wear
Cycling innovation fails the test of not knowingly complicating complexities. Peak road bike for most was probably about 2016 when I was lucky enough to get a Wilier GTR SL for just £3,000. Light, fast, reliable and does long rides comfortably.
I have that groupset, the only problem is I have it on a fully internal cable frame. It's very tricky to setup because of that, as mechanical shifting cables don't really like being bent inside of a frame. So your indexing really needs to be spot on. It does perform excelent when it's setup correctly though. And braking is amazing.
If I were to upgrade my frame at this point (which is something I'm considering), I could rebuild the original bike from the components lying around my workshop. Now that I'm thinking about it, that might be a good gift for my brother.
I like the fact that disc brakes (i) leave my bike clean (and not cover it with dark grey gunk), (ii) that usually the pads and the disc are optimized to work together to give a consistent breaking experience in dry and wet, (iii) that the modulation and breaking power is usually better and (iv) that if the wheels happen to be not 100% true it's not a problem. I can also switch my wheel sets more easily. I wish I could (a) better trace pad wear, (b) save 250 grams of weight, (c) be able flip the bike upside/down without thinking about rare break failure and (d) not need to replace breaking fluid every now and then.
I refuse to buy a disk brake bike. They require more maintenance, tools and skills that I don't need if I use rim brakes. They work just fine. Never wore out a set of rims from rim brakes so far and I'm 66 years old. They don't wear out. What a joke.
Rim versus disc is a debate I used to be firmly on the rim side of. For flatter terrain and better weather, it's a no brainer. But now I go to Norway regularly and ride loads of gravel. Discs are just vital for long descents and especially if you're a big bastard like me! 😂
I raced Mountain bikes in the 80s and 90s and did 1000s of miles in the mud with rim brakes, even my badly maintained commuter bike has worn rims but not to the point where they need changing. On the other hand the disc wheel on my race bike front wheel failed due to corrosion on the spoke nipples (aluminium steel spokes). Make what you will of that, bikes wear out as such all parts are consumable.
I have worn out several sets of mtb rims, it is a thing that can and will happen. It’s a normal thing and only happens after a lot of riding. The issue I’m having now is my beloved 25 year old bikes are 26”rimbrake, good luck finding anything. Conversely, my similarly aged disc brake bikes are going strong.
Well, I totally agree with the point about upgrading your current bike rather than bying a new one in "the same" price category (unless it has modern tech you can upgrade later on), but the ever increasing pressure for new/ expensive tech just for the sake of it is nothing but driving the base-price up. Not to mention the weight gains. To were out an alu. rim brake surface takes a long time, and the cost of replacing a rim is slim compared to upgrading your bike. The frame, group set, and wheels are completely different (and did I mention the weight?). I love your content a lot, and you admit to be bias, but going from a singlespeedbike to one with gearing can never be seen as the same as going from a light rimbrake bike with mechanical shifting, to a heavyer bike with disk brakes and electronic shifting. Both probably have a similar gear ratio as well. I love the old rim brake bikes. The only one i can run straight pull spokes on. 😉🤙
Rims do where out but I have wheels that are well in access of 30,000 miles on my commuter bike. Electronic shifting is not faster than well maintained cables, the speed of change is dictated by the cassette. Disc brakes, tubeless, and electronic shifting has moved the bike from transport that an enthusiast fix at home to a vehicle that has to be fixed by specialists. How many carbon bikes with integrated headsets are sat in a garage because it needs a £30 headset that costs £300 in labour.
How fast rims wear out on rim brake-equipped bikes depends on so much, well beyond how many miles or km they've been ridden. Like, whether they're allow or carbon, their quality and how well they're wiped down and maintained, pad quality and how well they're cleaned and kept in proper alignment and how often they're replaced when worn, amount and nature of road debris on typical rides, terrain covered and how often and how you brake and the kind of riding you do, temperature, rain, and so on. My Mavic alloy rim wheels are still doing fine after well over 10k miles, but I don't race or do long and crazy descents, I keep my pads aligned and replace them as needed and keep them and the rims clean and wiped, don't ride in the rain if I can help it, don't brake excessively, etc. Sure, they don't brake as well as good disc brakes would, but I don't really need them to for the kind of riding that I do. If I were buying or building a new bike today I'd almost certain get disc brakes, but I don't really miss them on my current bike. Same with electronic vs. mechanical shifting, carbon vs Ti, 12s vs 10s, thru axle vs QR, and so on. An old car that was well-made to begin with and maintained properly doesn't stop being a good car just because newer cars are often better. Same with bikes, or, really, anything. Except tube TVs. Those are obsolete. And old phones, PCs and much digital tech. But that's a whole other thing because their software keeps getting updated and eventually outpaces older hardware. Bikes have no such analog, being, mostly, well, analog.
I've never had the rims on my rim brake wheels wear out. I do between 7-12K miles per year. Typically I replace my bike every 6-7 years and I've gone through 2 sets of ball bearings on wheels before it becomes a backup bike/wheelset. So I disagree that disc brakes are cheaper in the long run. If you are doing enough braking to wear down your rims, you will go through a ton of rotors which aren't cheap either.
I've never seen a worn out rim brake wheel but absolutely choose (hydraulic) disc when buying a new bike if for no other reason than it will be worth something when you're done with it where a rim brake bike will be very difficult to sell. For sure mechanical shifting is more than adequate.
I love the disk brakes on my mountain bike - they always work the same. On my road bike rim brakes work just fine as the rims are usually not full of crud and water.
I always hear this about wheel longetivty... I have multiple sets of carbon rim wheels that have tens of thousands of km's of use that are still solid. I have yet to wear out a rim brake wheel in my lifetime. With that said, I'm light at 68kg, ride road and rarely ride in bad weather/slop. I personally see no value in moving to disk for the riding I do and it frustrates me to no end that the major manufacturers are forcing me to make the move if I want a new bike.
I'm using a Fully MTB and a Gravel with Discbrake and it's great! I own an old Specialized Hardtail with Rimbrakes and it's horrible. The electronic shifting in my opinion ... why!?!?
Trying stuff out in a bricks and mortar shop and then buying online is pretty skeezy IMO. If I try something in a shop and they have what I want, I'm buying it there. I buy stuff online, too, but only when I'm buying a replacement for something I already have experience with, or when I'm willing to take my chances and deal with the possible hassle of online returns.
YES! If my LBS has what I want, I buy from them. Especially if it's something that one should try on before buying, like a bike, a trip to the LBS is worth it. Who cares if it costs more, provided it fits your body type and the type of riding you do? The advice a LBS can give is PRICELESS!
Totally agree with Nick on what he said about bike shops. Going in to want to test ride a bike and then buy online at a cheaper price is not a good. I've been going to my local bike shop since they opened years ago. Get all my servicing done with them, wheels built bike built up etc. During Covid when a bike hub replacement was taking ages from Shmano the owner lent me a spare wheel. he's put a spare chain wheel on too and tuned the gears or other odd thins Ive popped in with for free. Build up a relationship and it works both ways. It's like an insurance paolicy for your bike.
Instead of having several complete bikes hanging, I'd eventually like to get it down to two wheelsets (gravel/road) and a bunch of hanging frames with components. Then I just drop whichever frame I want to ride that day onto the wheels. Saves me some room.
I just never think of the new bike cost with the local bike shop conundrum. Except for a complete bike I bought during the pandemic for the frame (at LBS) and immediately broke it down & parted out (at a profit!) before riding it, my bike(s) are just a continually replacement of parts that evolve and every now & then I'll replace the frame/fork. In fact I just looked at my spreadsheet & discovered that the handlebars on my newest bike (frame) are from 2007! That being said, I could get everything mail order and save a lot of money, but I make it a priority to support LBS with many parts, especailly consumables other than tyres. Even though I build my own wheels, I'll get them to true and retension my wheels occasionally just to keep a labor relationship with them & have "water coller" talks.
I love my new carbon disc brake bike It’s so comfortable and brakes 5x quicker than my rim brakes + my body doesn’t hurt anymore with all the shock absorption the new bike provides compared to my vintage 2008
Nothing wrong with rim brakes,nothing wrong with disc brakes. A lot of people won't even wear out a set of tyres before they sell it or permanently park it up. But,they have still made bikes cheaper for everyone else.
Do disk brakes load up the front fork under braking reducing the flex and grip? Forks are meant to flex keeping tyre contact over bumps. Should bikes have rear disk only?
@@paulgrimshaw8334 YES and no. Yes, because of course they load up the fork. That is physics... That's why forks for disc brakes are constructed differently and are much stiffer, therefore reducing flex and traction and increasing vibration, hence why you need bigger tires to make up for the mess you didn't need to create in the first place... No, because the breaking power of disc brakes is already too great with slim tires, so there is absolutely no need for them in the rear, which is even less used when breaking.
@ Nope. The fork is equally loaded, regardless of the brake type. The force is a function of the rider, the vector, and the frame (thru which the fork and stem bear the load. There is also an issue of brake balance. Braking two wheels is more effective than just one. The forces are handled through two contact patches after all.
@@toolazytoo Most amateur road riders ARE fair weather riders... If you're not, you're the exception. Buy disc brakes, by all means. And then slide out in the wet because the stopping power is to great...
It depends on the conditions where you live. If you live somewhere that's relatively flat and rolling -- with predictable weather -- like I do-- disc brakes seem like overkill. I 've ridden 12,000k this year and, let me think, hmm, I rode in the rain three times.🤔
Disk rider here, and I have never, ever used more than 70% braking force as the problem is that the tyres just give and you slip and slide - happened recently in Portugal, didn't know the road and came to a 90 degree corner at speed and my newish GP5000 just fishtailed. I always use 25% to 35% force and brake with both levers evenly. RIM brakes are just as effective - unless you have carbon rims in the wet of course.
Brakes are for decelerating if your hands get tired or you don’t have the grip strength to lockup your brakes in a dangerous situation disc brakes are for you. If you are a racer I would recommend disc so you could brake a little later in the corners. For the majority of cyclists rim brakes because they are effective and easy to maintain.
He's just member of the bike technology must always move forward cult. "Otherwise we'd all be riding penny-farthings." Everything is a compromise in some way or another and it is very possible that for some riders we already reached the perfect balance of strength, lightness, durability and cost back when Nitto and Shimano and all the Japanese brands were booming. You can always spot the type of person who has blind faith that if something is newer, and different in some way, it's an "upgrade".
I don't think its a case of disc brakes themselves but a heading towards being overly complicated systems of what's meant to be a simple machine, I use full mechanical disc brakes which are more than enough to bring you to a full stop going downhill at 30mph on tarmac despite what I was told, set up is everything.
I live where mountains are scarce. I had built up a new road bike using a pair of carbon wheels from my old bike. Virtually no ware. The only benefit of going to disc brakes, is being able to put tires wider than 28 m tires on. Of course if I had decided to go with disc brakes. The cost would be easily doubled.
Agree with rebuilding upgrading bike ahead of buying the latest fad. I bought a 1998 Colnago frame second hand in 2006 which was covered in clear tape and as new. Built it up with 2007 Campag Record and Campag Neutron alloy wheels. Upgraded to the latest Campag Record 12 Speed this year to get lower gears and bought another set of Neutrons on sale at Wiggle before they went bust. Still riding the original Neutrons which are now 18 years old and only repacked the bearings once. Do about 7k per year so don’t agree with comment about longevity of alloy wheels. Biggest issue not being able to fit wider tyres to run lower pressures. Running Conti GP 5000 25c at 75. Used to ride at 100 in the old days. Great bike shop love your in shop videos
Rims wear out but my race wheels are over 10 years old and still have minimal wear, they are retired to the cross bike now .. I wouldn't use decent wheels for winter riding , chain gangs etc anyway, too much opportunity for destruction. If you can only afford one bike ( lack of cash or storage) then fair enough getting a disc bike might make sense otherwise makes no odds for most of us. I've got 2 cx bikes, the rim brake one is quicker, even if it's muddy ( unless it's clay and hay😂)
Expensive fancy stuff doesn't make you a cyclist. Its getting out there a pedaling every day/week that makes you a cyclist. I'm still riding my old Schwinn Le Tour. Hi-Ten frame, downtube shifters, all the old stuff. Been riding this bike since 1997.
I bought my trekking bike used, nearly 3 years ago. Before I had it, it was in use for about 5 years. Still has the same brakes, still working as they should. Only the brake fluid, in my case, mineral oil, has to be refilled every now and again. I wouldn't buy a bike with rim brakes anymore. Disc brakes work properly during any weather, regardless of if they're wet or not.
Brake pads for disks pads (the wear items) are the same price or cheaper than rim brake pads, except at the highest end, which is pointless anyways. Hydraulic fluid is cheap, and cables do wear anyways. We can talk about electronic groupsets and all that jam, but I strongly doubt diskbrakes even add a single dollar to a manufacturer's cost to produce for road bikes. MT201 disk brakes (preloaded) are available for cheaper in the US than 105 rim brakes caliper only.
I’ve been riding for over 17 years and I don’t think I have had any rim brake wheel sets ever wear out to the point that they need to be replaced, and I’ve ridden tens of thousands of miles in my years. Also, your disc doesn’t just get slightly cooked, they completely warp and go completely out of true 😂😂😂
I feel that the main reason disc brakes should/can be considered, is to have strong braking when using deep-rim carbon wheels. Rim-braking on carbon wheels is simply inferior will all except the most $$$ wheels, and by then, it's probably cheaper to buy the disc-brake bike since the wheels are in $1000+ range. But if you're not a racer, and you're not chasing down those last few seconds/minutes, rim brakes on alloy wheels not only brakes well, but does it as well as hydraulic top-end brakes on a road bike (mtn bike hydraulic are stronger though). So for the vast majority of folks, rim brakes are all they will ever need. (It is also however true that the deep carbon wheels are faster in most cases, by a lot in time-trials/triathlons, so having the ability to upgrade to disc-brakes was actually quite helpful to someone like myself who always lamented carbon rim-braking hazards.)
I've been riding since 1987, I have _never_ replaced a wheel set due to brake track wear. I don't think I personally know anyone that has worn out their brake track to the point where the wheels needed replacing.
You need to replace brake pads, rotors and brake fluid vs just pads with rim brakes. Rim brake pads will last twice to thrice as long as disc brake pads do.
The entry cost for disc brakes and electronic shifting aren't really in the same ballpark. Lots of really cheap bikes come with good shimano hydro discs, especially true for flat bar bikes (anything "road" gets an automatic premium). There's no budget option for shimano electronic shifting like there is for disc brakes.
My bike shop takes great care of me. That comes with a price IMO. I'm willing to pay a few dollars more at the shop, knowing I could get some things cheaper on line, to get that outstanding service. Most often they surprise me with a slight discount at the register.
My rim brake bike has 23mm tyres pumped up to 100psi. They're okay on smooth roads but brutal on rougher roads. My disc brake bike is currently running 34mm tyres and they're superb. I tend to be faster on the disc brake bike because it is so much smoother. I still like my rim brake bike but these days it spends most of it's time on the trainer.
For demoing bikes, my opinion is that the bike shop can charge a fee for the bike demo and the fee can roll into the final purchase. Here bike demoing doesn't mean just a quick spin around the neighborhood. Instead the customer should be able to take it out for the full day to have a proper ride
I fear there is a danger in every string of comments on this topic, that people are left unhappy, which is such a shame as biking shouldn’t do that to us. I have driven myself nuts over these issues in the past and wish I hadn’t. My suggestion is, first get a bike fit to check what might be suitable for you, if you’re unsure about what size or type of bike to go for. Then buy what appeals to you, for the riding you do, and try not to worry about having made the wrong decision. I know lots of people who ride mechanical / rim braked bikes and love them. Go back a few years and that’s all there was and people loved cycling for goodness sake! Mechanical has evolved over years of honing, to the point where trickle down components means you can buy a brilliant bike for not much money, but I’ve gone in a different direction. My current bike is a 2022 Giant TCR with 12 speed Di2 and disc brakes. If it helps anyone, this is why I chose it: - I ride casually with mates, sometimes pushing hard and sometimes going easy and chatting and am not looking for the very lightest bike. This is often brought into the debate, but I think many weekend riders like me worry far too much about weight. - The battery last for ages. 100 miles is my comfort / enjoyment limit, and I’m pretty organised about getting the bike ready for weekends, so have never run out of charge - Disc brakes give me confidence and I really haven’t experienced any issues with them. I had some rubbing initially that I fixed and have ridden thousands of miles without any further issues. - some might miss the feeling of mechanical shifting, but I haven’t. I love the way that electronic shift works every time. I use the front mech more as a result and like how the brake lever travels straight, not having to shift. - my bike came with really nice carbon wheels and I have no issue with them. - I’m lucky that I could afford the stupid price tag, through 0% finance and justified it on the basis that I look after my bikes really well and spreading the cost over years meant it wouldn’t be such an expensive hobby. Plus it keeps me fit! - I love the colour and look of my bike. Silly? Yes, objectively. Perhaps I am silly, but it makes me genuinely happy to look at and ride it. What I don’t like is that I think there must be a risk that my group-set will become obsolete and the whole thing will need replacing, which will be costly. That is less of an issue with mechanical, but I’m ok with the risk. Bottom line is there’s nothing I dislike about my bike, but that’s just me! I plan to ride it for years and must keep in mind that there will always be a new model with fancier things, but not one that will make me happier I’d imagine.
The rim brake wheels on my road bike are 10 years old and the brake surfaces are fine, I've never worn out the braking surface on a road bike, MTB yes, road, no.
It’s funny that we‘re living in the most individualistic and „consumer-oriented“ society in human history but often can’t buy what we actually want. We get to buy what the industry wants us to buy.
I wanted to buy a new carbon-frame road bike this year, but I did not want hydraulic disk brakes and tubeless tires because of the costs of purchase and maintenance. There were no all-carbon alternatives among the Trek bikes.
cable snob coz im poor ! also i get the having multiple batteries and changing out every so often but id rather not need more electronics on my bike or in my home disc isnt killing cycling , rediculous prices are
the commenter is 100% right. the reality is bikes dont need to be so complex and expensive. still getting koms on my 105 alu rim 2012 giant tcr. riding is what makes you faster. that bike just never breaks and parts are super cheap anyhow.
In 50 years of riding I've only ever worn out one set of rims from braking. Does it happen? Yes of course. Is it a major concern? Nope! Where bikes are concerned I stick to the K.I.S.S principle. Bikes should be simple enough that the owner can keep them in good repair.
Agreed. I have a 22-year-old Trek Fuel (original owner) with V-brakes. They work great, and I’m still using the original rims that came with the bike. I also have a Giant Anthem Advanced 2 that came with disc brakes. They work great as well, but I don’t have to have them. Now, the seat dropper post-that was a worthy improvement for mountain biking. :)
The bike industry is a fashion business. Every year there is fancy new kit that you don't need but we buy it because it is shiny and new
True, but same applies to virtually every leisure activity. There will often be 2 camps, One who enjoy buying new stuff and the thrill of keeping their hobby interesting, and another who want things to stay unaltered.
@@dalerasche8769 What business is not?
Cycling is now Golf.....
Every business is the same concept. Look at the GoPro cameras. They all do the same thing but they try to add a little bit here and there.
@ 💯💯💯
Full mechanical, Rim brake, aluminium wheels with good hubs are more than enough for 95% of road cyclists
I agree and disagree that they won’t last as long. Rim brakes wear but the batteries for the group set don’t last and they aren’t made anymore for early models of shimano
Said the same thing 5 years ago. My opinions have turned around since then.
I built a custom xcr steel rim brake bike with HED Ardennes wheels this year and I frickin love it!
@@MysticFluff1 I cycle in the Swiss alps. Sometimes I use rim brakes (ultegra), sometimes I use hydraulic disc brakes (sram rival). Most of the time, though, I use my rim brake bike and keep my disc brake bike as a back-up. I'm not a professional rider descending at 80+kmph so I never approach the force limit that either can provide. I'm sure a pro rider can take full advantage of the marginal force win of disc brakes but I'm a mere mortal mainly focused on getting to the bottom in 1 piece. Modern developments like aero carbon wheels, wireless shifting and disc brakes just give me an advantage I'll never use. The bottleneck to the time it takes me to ascend the Nufenen Pass is not the 8ms longer it takes to shift gear with a cable.
@@MysticFluff1 BS! According to that statement, cyclists just kept crashing and dying right after they spot a hill on the horizon, for 40 years or so.
Wheel rims wear out from braking? In all my years of cycling (I'm 75, and still doing the distance) I've only ever seen a couple of rims overly worn from braking. Mind you, they're metal. Ya know, like sensible people use.
A quality alloy rim is better in almost every respect for the average cyclist who has a sense of balance. Mentally and physically. And I've built up many of my own wheels over the decades.
Yeah, 65 and never wore out a rim. Brake pads, bearings, a spoke sometimes.
@@Burger1097 Indeed. Any rim I saw that was 'getting thin' was not mine, and one that been abused. The early alloy rims tended to be unhardened, and also brake pads could be meant for unalloyed steel, not quality alloy.
I'm 66 and it's never happened to me yet, wearing out a set of rims. I rode 1980 miles just this year.
Yep, 71 here, crossed U.S. three times, EU once. Owned road, touring, mtn bikes, I recently got disgusted with disc brakes and tubeless and bought a cantilever brake, tubes only, 36 spoke wheel bike. When it sits during winter, just add air, lube chain, and ride... simple beauty of the bike. PS crossed U.S., 3X and had two flats. Happy trails!☮
Neither have I worn out rims
I have had the same rim brake wheels during winter now for 6 years and the rims are still going strong.
You only wear the rims out if you use the brakes. And if you use the brakes, you go slower. 😘
all rims are strong enough until they aren't
Those rim brake rims will probably last longer than the O-Rings in a hydraulic system. The ceramic plungers in the hydraulic caliper that push together to grip the rotor will get stuck and you'll have to replace the caliper. To say disc wheels are better because they don't wear out and rim brakes do is a load of crap. The tech didn't need to change for everyone.
@@ajb-64 I've exploded a hydraulic caliper on a MTB before shit happens stuff breaks.
I don't buy the wearing out of rims. I have only ever worn out rims on a commuter bike ridden through winters after many years. Rim brake bikes with decent wheels and 105 are bound to be far less expensive, and lighter, than hydraulic disc bikes with electronic gears.
I have a rim brake cyclocross/gravel bike that I'm now on my fourth set of wheels in just over a decade. I'm a clydesdale, and rode hard, in many conditions. It happens.
Horses for courses, if a bike will see lots and lots of mud/grit, and lots of braking and accelerations, yes, it will wear out. On the road, for the majority of cyclists, they won't wear a single set of wheels during a bikes lifetime. And the brand name rotors are not cheap either.
agree with you , but i have hydraulic shimano discs and they a efin awesome and 6yrs old
I've worn out two aluminum (rear) rims in my lifetime, riding on the road. It depends on whether you're willing to go out in bad weather on those rims or not.
I road through probably a rim set a year in my prime riding time (150 - 350 miles a week of riding/training) of training and then racing on the weekends so it can totally be done.. I would guess that most "casual" riders could probably take a lot longer.. BUT it is a thing depending on your volume and conditions..
Are disc brakes and electronic shifting “better?” Of course they perform better. The issue is whether they are worth all the extra money and maintenance for the entry level rider or the budget conscious rider. Having rim brake models available as an option would allow more new riders entry into the sport.
With all the thousands of great used rim brake bikes out there for sale this hardly seems like a barrior of entry for new cyclists.
@@siberian13 This may shock you to learn, but many people prefer to buy new. From a shop. Particularly when they are not knowledgeable and don’t know what they are looking for.
The question is whether they are better for all but the paid professional.
@@bradtowne2305 EXACTLY! For pro riders, cutting edge tech and components make sense, as they have the skill and ability to really make the most of it. HOWEVER! However, for the 99.9% of us riding for fitness and fun, that stuff is overkill. Is shaving a fraction of a second really necessary for us? No.
Plus, tech and quality trickle down to lower level components and groupsets anyway. A Sora or Tiagra groupset from today is better than the Shimano 600 (the Ultegra predecessor, BTW!) of yesteryear. A modern Acera derailleur is equal to the Deore of yesteryear. And so on.
No they even not perform better
Five road bikes and two gravel bikes all with metal wheels and rim brakes. Cheaper and easier to maintain rim brakes. I learned how to true my wheels so that is never an issue. Long live rim brakes! 🚴🏻♂️❤
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hydraulic disc brakes are super easy to maintain, a lot quicker/simpler than mechanical single, dual pivot or canti brakes.
@@chrisclark7181 someone has drank the koolaid. One of my bikes has paul component mini moto, you cannot tell me there is a simpler easier to maintain disc system than that!
Sorry - If an LBS won't allow test rides on items IN STOCK then let them go out of business (if selling stock production bikes is their business). I had no LBS with stock of anything I was interested in and drove 100mi to shop that let me test ride about 4 different bikes from 4 different brands in multiple sizes. I spent a good bit of time there and the bikes absolutely rode differently beyond tires or bar tape. In the end I bought a bike completely different from them than the one I specifically went to try. I bought it from them because they EARNED the sale through their selection, patience and generally being very helpful. I'll happily drive the distance again to give them a sale. Of course I order on line for lots of stuff but for items where fit matters if an LBS have it, it fits, and they aren't total dicks (as many stores sadly are), I buy it there because they've earned the difference between their price and on-line.
Yes, but you're not a time wasting scoundrel. 90% are
100% agree. not letting bikes be tested is what online sales are for. Bike shops' existence is for such things.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. 96 % or more of riders will get a new bike before wearing out a rim. We are talking about ROAD bikes. Almost no-one rides in the rain, most people maintain their bikes, most people don't ride 10k per year. A good rim in mostly dry conditions will last AT LEAST 50-60.000 km, aluminium or carbon, doesn't matter. It's a none-issue in almost everyone's reality when riding road bikes.
After 40 years of riding bikes I’ve never replaced wheels because the brake surface was worn down. Bent rims from Pot holes and crashes are the usual reasons a wheel gets replaced.
N+1. thats the solution. Who says we can only ride rim brake or disc. I ride in the rain so I have both rim and disc.
if you ride in all weather rims brakes wear out fast and have little stopping Power. Discs all the way
@@HCMORGI Tell me you've never ridden proper rim brakes without telling me you've never ridden proper rim brakes...
Edit: I've worn out ONE pair of rims in my life. On a 55 kg electric cargo bike, ridden in literally all weather conditions including snow, packed regularly with up to almost 200 kg cargo (including me), with hydraulic rim brakes. Those were 20" and 24" rims and lasted almost 12.000 km. It took over 5 years to do that. Pretty fast, I guess...
I've worn out loads of rims over the years riding in winter. On average, I get three years' use out of a Mavic Aksium wheelset, probably 2500 miles per year at most.
The current pair are into their second winter and I can see the rims becoming slightly concave. I live somewhere hilly, with wet roads for much of the time between October and March, even when it's not actually raining.
By contrast, my summer bike - which I don't ride in the rain - has a pair of Mavic Ksyrium wheels which I bought in 2000 and which are still going strong (apart from changing the bearings).
If you ride in the wet, rim brake wheel rims will wear out.
Wait a moment! I bought a Specialized Allez Elite, yes the rim-brake model, and rode 15'000 km. I live in the Alps, I love climbing and descending the mountains. So far i did not even hat to change my brake pads! The DT-Swiss alloy wheel will last surely last for ages considering I did not even had to change brake pads.
BULL
Yes, they will last a lifetime
Do you weigh 50 grams? 😂
I live in the flattest country on earth and have changed my pads 3-4 times over 15k km.
Edit: of course I am talking about a city bike used for commuting, it also rains alot here so that might be the reason for that
Why add weight to a rotating part
@smeshsmesh9695 Yes, i think they ware out a lot quicker in the rain. You can really see the black debry after a ride in wet conditions. Like mentioned, i hardly ride in the rain. 🌞
Ok, how many people do you know that have actually worn out a old style alloy rim brake wheel set? I suppose it could happen, but would be very rare. Back in the 1980s I built a wheelset using Mavic Open Pro wheels and Campy hubs that is still fine today, 40 some years later.
Absolutely , Pete Mathews would definitely agree 👍
I burned through several Mavic rims in the 80's & 90's (a rim set a year as I recall it) but I was riding 300+ miles a week and racing in all weather and conditions (I trained in Santa Cruz CA) with a lot of rain, sea fog (salt!), and sand... cooked em off regularly BUT I think that is an edge case and NOT typical of most folks - But it can be done and I did it (the break pads would carve into the rim and create a noticeable slot so if/when you changed break pads it would shred the new ones...) a fair amount
I'm 66 years old and yet to see it happen.
1997-2007 I was riding 4000-5000 miles a year, all year round and went through quite a few alloy rims. Not that big an annual mileage but I was/am a taller heavier rider. (Well now I don't even do 1000 a year and I am much heavier!)
@@DuhRev yeah my Open pro wore after a few years. I do ride that bike a lot though. Not a big deal, replace the rim and keep the hub and spokes.
Rim wear isn't a realistic problem for the vast majority of cyclists.
It would still be nice to have a choice between rim or disc when buying a new bike but even entry level are becoming disc only now.
I have never walked out to my garage and found the charge on my mechanical group set depleted.
True, I did however walk out of my garage and found that the gear shifts were fucked. So I had to go back and do a cable change. I also hate how the cable shifting loses tension and you have to keep adjusting it. You just never have the ***same*** performance on every ride. Hopefully someday I can afford electronic.
@@seraph4581 If the bike had been set up and maintained properly none of what you have described could have happened. Apart from the rear mech being knocked hard enough to bend the hanger, properly set up gears can't go out of adjustment. If you knock an electronic derailleur hard enough to bend the hanger, electronic gears go out of adjustment just the same as mechanical.
I'm always tempted to do something like upgrade my wheels. Then I think about taking that money and going somewhere for a biking holiday. Multiple night hotel lodgings and some nice meals out somewhere I don't normally ride.
My 8 year old Giant TCX/SX's only original parts are the stem and handlebar. The bike continually renews itself ( well , I upgrade when necessary or affordable or " man , that is just so suited to my age and riding style " )and it brings me even more fun and joy when I ride. I'm 72 and have last week's broken rib to exemplify this. And the secret to buying/upgrading/maintaining ? Find a really good bike shop and stick with them.
"Disc brake wheels don't wear out so fast": I confess that I've always been kind of a big boi, but from what I can tell, the spokes go first, even if you use a 36-spoke model. By the time you need to replace a rim, you're probably overdue to rebuild the wheel with new spokes anyway.
True, a rim track gets a lot closer to the muck than a disc rotor, but on the other hand, 1) rims have vastly more surface area than brake discs and 2) rim brakes have more leverage against wheel rotation than disc brakes have, so rim brakes don't need to work nearly as hard as disc brakes to slow the bike.
I agree that disc brakes make the use of carbon rims feasible. Disc brakes also allow you to swap wheels with different profiles more quickly, which is nice if you want a wheelset with knobby tires and sealant for chunky gravel and another wheelset to keep up with the folks on the fast road ride.
Pretty much agree. I'm actually from "opposite weight region". Maybe not a "feather", but varying in between 68 up to 75 kilos lately. My reality is that I killed wheel hubs of my road bike before I managed to wear out the rims. Not to mention being hit by car and ending up in hospitals twice so far, also trashing the bikes. Already won criminal court case, waiting for insurance money. So will be able to buy yet another bike. "Rim-brake" based one? Very likely so.. :D Just love the looks.
you will go through 10+ sets of disc brake rotors before you ever wear out a rim, guess which one will cost you 4X more?!
The front wheel on my CX bike is the original rim after ~16,000km. I've broken a few spokes. The hub, remarkably, is still fine.
In my history, I've had a few aluminum rims wear out and fail, once WHILE RIDING. Disc wheels have far better longevity if you ride in even mildly bad conditions with any regularity.
I've raced CX on carbon tubular wheels and they were light and fast, but ironically, they were terrible in mud. The braking performance was sub-standard at best, and I've had pads wear down over the course of the race and get dangerously close to the carrier touching the braking surface.
But even on the road, I can't be happier with discs. The wheel rim only has to do one thing: be structurally sound. Trying to engineer something to do two diametrically opposed things at once has always been bad news, and bike wheels are no different. My main issue with discs is that the levers still haven't come back to being as good as they were with my rim brakes.
A bit of BS here saying it is cheaper to have carbon wheels and disk brakes. I have been riding since the eighties and worked in bike shops I rode big miles in the oat and never wore out non carbon rims. Add in the cost of carbon wheels and disk brakes maintenance it is not cheaper.
Yep, a lot of BS, especially when you need a mech to remove a chattering disc, or figuring out your new pads picked up a piece of gravel that dug a groove in the pad. Tubeless, I've spent hours cleaning, taping, trying to install and seat poor tire and rim combinations. The tolerances are close for the systems to work nicely, and when you replace a tire it's not that simple with tubeless. I've toured over 10,000 miles on four tours, and got two flat tires with tubes, 10 minute repair. Canti brakes by Paul, Velocity Dyad rims, Schwalbe Marathons keeps bikes simple.
@Mike-vd2qt definitely a lot of BS here, but Nic has a business of course he won't promote rim brake bikes I've worn out 1 set of wheels over 50 years of riding.
Rims ware out? I have the same bike for over 40 years riden on pavement, gravel and trails. The rear spokes have fatigued and been replaced many times. I have fatiged and had spokes pull out of two hubs, one of which was a Campy. The original rims are definetly warn but still servicable.
I rode a rim brake road bike for 4 years and I have nothing to complain about that. This year, I moved to a disk break road bike, I feel so much comfortable on down hills with my new bike. I’m not good on down hills, maybe because of that I feel more comfortable with disk breaks.
I’ve used disc brakes, on mtbs, since day one. Back in the day, Cannondale did the right thing and spec’d discs across their mtb ranges. The only downside -first gen Magura’s leaked a lot!
When they did work they just made sense. Mags, Hope, Shimano et al had twenty years to refine the technology before the UCI had their hissy fit about introducing them onto road bikes.
So here we are no downsides. Disc brakes perform well in all weather conditions. They’re relatively easy to maintain. Aesthetically bikes just look way cleaner.
I still ride my Bianchi Nirone 7 Aluminium all round with rim brakes, I love it.
I purchased a grx 810 mechanical groupset. So happy! Never felt such smooth shifting.
Depends on riding conditions, and how often you go through fluid, pads and rotors vs the cost of replacing the front rim, and a few sets of inexpensive pads in the same amount of time.
"inexpensive" well that depends. Swisstops are more than 50$ these days, and cheap pads tend to pick up more metal from the rim.
@weatheranddarkness yeah, I've not looked at prices lately. I think I have a few sets of koolstops in my bin, but currently no bikes with brakes haha
While I do get your points on why you don't offer test rides, from a new cyclist's perspective, I can't fathom paying thousands for a bike that I have NO idea of whether or not it works for me. I trainer tells me shit! I've purchased two bikes (both Trek) in less than 12 months, both of which were sold after a test ride. Then, in the last two weeks, I've shopped two different dealers (one Trek, one Specialized) for yet another bike (third in less than 12 months) both of which readily offered a test ride. One of those even had a different size brought in just so I could compare two sizes of the same bike. To me, THAT is what a LBS is ALL about, as opposed to a direct to consumer brand. And THAT was the LBS developing a relationship with ME, and not the other way around. And guess what! As a result, they have a loyal customer for life! I don't mind paying a little more to get that level of customer service. Without a test ride, I may as well just say, "Meh, I'll just order online and take my chances while saving some cash"....
I once learnt of a customer who bought a bike for his sister the same time he bought his own, both of which are the same model: Specialized Aethos (forgot whether one or both are S-Works versions)
His sister rode her bike a few times and after one tumble, she called it quits. This bike is now his.
I’m with Emily. If you find your dream bike and you can afford it, buy it. I know a guy who was haggling with a LBS for his dream bike and walked away over fifty bucks. He ended up buying a different bike from another shop and spent 15 years riding the bike he didn’t want for a lousy $50.
I spent years trying to always get the best deal even if I could afford the good stuff. You end up with alot of compromises.
I finally splurged and built a 25 lb. XC bike last year. It's awesome. And makes me regret not spending more when I was younger and could really thrash it.
And like Nick said, he'd have then had a great relationship with the Bikeshop for any jobs doing over the years.
I only have one bike. Biggest problem is tire clearance. I ride it where I really shouldn’t but it always does the job. Just wish I could run a bit wider tire.
Good advice on upgrading and looking at a bike in terms of (1) frame, (2) wheels and or tires, (3) groupset, (4) bars and seat.
Frame is lowest bang for buck.
Expensive carbon fibre bikes and components, as well as electronic groupsets, are definitely killing cycling. They are completely unnecessary for non-professional cyclists
Disc brakes can be mechanical or hydraulic and still be relatively affordable. Also, they are undeniably better in wet weather.
I like the idea of supporting local bike shops. Most items and maintenance are relatively inexpensive. However sometimes online prices are so much lower (often for bikes or components not vocally available) that you have to go the online route
I have never worn out a aluminum rim, I have repaired freehubs yes but never the rim. I own a pair of Zondas that just lasted and lasted.. Daily UK winter training, multiple trips to Mallorca up and down Sa Calobra and Puig Major, 6 months cycling in south east asia (Hot, wet, humid and near the sea). the rear wheel is somewhere in my workshop no doubt still fine, the front is on my Zwift bike..
There are a handful of reasons I like my electronic shifting. One, it legitimately enhances the enjoyment of your riding. I do notice the enjoyment in riding. I have 2 bikes set up with Sram Force AXS and the other with CX1. 1x for both. And yes I notice the difference. This is NOT saying I dislike cables. Sometimes I prefer the solid clicking feel of the CX1 shifter. But I do notice the difference. Furthermore, electronic shifting is better for crappy weather. You dont get water or dirt ingress into non existing cables. And finally, when paired to my Garmin, I know how often I shift and where, which most people might not do anything with this information, but for me, it does. I can see where I am shifting where it might be better to stand up, or maybe shift earlier or later. For years I have had back problems while riding and believe it or not, sometimes it's cause im sitting in the saddle cranking on too hard of a gear. But I dodnt come from that conclusion until seeing my Garmin stats. And it's helped my back in the process of making me faster!
Upgrading slowly over time is the way to go. I bought a 2017 Wilier Cento 1 Cross disc brake frame in 2021. Red AxS rim brake shifters, Fulcrum Racing Quattro wheels, mechanical disc brake calipers, Rival AXS rear derailleur, it was a great bike. Over time I upgraded, got a nice set of FFWD F4D wheels, Sram Force hydraulic shifters and once I toasted it in an accident, went for a new rear derailleur. Eventually these components all ended up on a Trek Boone 2022 frame, and I put Sram Force CX1 on the other bike for cheap. Thats the way to do it.
Great video! I ride a 2014 Cannondale SSE with mechanical 105 and a lot of this video rings true.
The drivetrain is still faultless but I've upgraded the handlebars, tyres and pedals.
The frame has external cabling so Di2 is impossible, and frame clearance limits it to 25mm tyres. Its rim brakes mean I have such limited scope in upgrading wheelsets as no local bike shops near me do rim brake wheelsets.
The bike has served me so well, but I guess I will have to move with the times and eventually look to buy a whole new bike, but the market value for an equivalent bike and similar groupset is just so expensive! 😢
I 100% agree with the upgrade suggestion. Buy the lowest spec of the best bike for your needs and upgrade over time.
I often ride with a wheelset my father laced when he was racing... in 1975 (early Shimano hubs with Mavic Module E rims). I also used them as backup wheels. So, those rims are 50 years old and they're still prefectly usable, on a vintage bike of course. One thing not to be forgotten is keep the pads clean!
Those of us who prefer mechanical bicycles can take heart because there are still single-speed, fixed gear and 3-speed hub gears available today. That older, tried and tested, technology does not go away completely.
Any “super bike” from 9 speed forward does just fine on the average weekly group ride. Many of those bikes were never ridden much. My 2009 Giant does just fine for 150-200 miles a week.
Worn out rims? What a joke.
*Not a big fan of braking myself.*
*I live in the mountains, so not much up here to slow down or stop for.*
*Except coffee.*
@@TenFalconsMusic Hah, see the sarcasm. but I say that I'm not a big fan of braking myself either. Some say my brakes don't work so I don't bother braking at all, just got used to SPEED! 😁
@@frankdelarosa9527
Agree, my rims will outlast me
I've done it a few times.. it can be done... but I do think it is an edge case rather than a regular thing - riding volume + conditions can really do a job on rims...
I've worn out three sets of rims in the last few years. They were aluminium, rather than steel. But still, it's not an unusual thing to happen. It's like the disc Vs the pads in terms of wear differences, you'd go through multiple sets of pads before the braking surface started to show lots of wear
Cycling innovation fails the test of not knowingly complicating complexities. Peak road bike for most was probably about 2016 when I was lucky enough to get a Wilier GTR SL for just £3,000. Light, fast, reliable and does long rides comfortably.
The upgrade plan he spoke of made so much sense 8:21.
I have no problem with disc brakes but wish we still had a rim brake option.
I love the electronic group set
Nothing wrong with mechanical groupsets, I'm considering the 105 12 speed for my older giant defy. The money you save you can upgrade your wheelset.
Hmmm, is there a 12s 105 mechanical? There is 11s mechanical, but 12s - weren't they all Di2 ones?
I have the new 12 speed 105 Mechanical (R7100) on my new bike.
I got it last year sweet as a nut
I have that groupset, the only problem is I have it on a fully internal cable frame. It's very tricky to setup because of that, as mechanical shifting cables don't really like being bent inside of a frame. So your indexing really needs to be spot on. It does perform excelent when it's setup correctly though. And braking is amazing.
If I were to upgrade my frame at this point (which is something I'm considering), I could rebuild the original bike from the components lying around my workshop. Now that I'm thinking about it, that might be a good gift for my brother.
I like the fact that disc brakes (i) leave my bike clean (and not cover it with dark grey gunk), (ii) that usually the pads and the disc are optimized to work together to give a consistent breaking experience in dry and wet, (iii) that the modulation and breaking power is usually better and (iv) that if the wheels happen to be not 100% true it's not a problem. I can also switch my wheel sets more easily. I wish I could (a) better trace pad wear, (b) save 250 grams of weight, (c) be able flip the bike upside/down without thinking about rare break failure and (d) not need to replace breaking fluid every now and then.
I refuse to buy a disk brake bike. They require more maintenance, tools and skills that I don't need if I use rim brakes. They work just fine. Never wore out a set of rims from rim brakes so far and I'm 66 years old. They don't wear out. What a joke.
Rim versus disc is a debate I used to be firmly on the rim side of. For flatter terrain and better weather, it's a no brainer.
But now I go to Norway regularly and ride loads of gravel. Discs are just vital for long descents and especially if you're a big bastard like me! 😂
I raced Mountain bikes in the 80s and 90s and did 1000s of miles in the mud with rim brakes, even my badly maintained commuter bike has worn rims but not to the point where they need changing. On the other hand the disc wheel on my race bike front wheel failed due to corrosion on the spoke nipples (aluminium steel spokes). Make what you will of that, bikes wear out as such all parts are consumable.
I have worn out several sets of mtb rims, it is a thing that can and will happen. It’s a normal thing and only happens after a lot of riding. The issue I’m having now is my beloved 25 year old bikes are 26”rimbrake, good luck finding anything. Conversely, my similarly aged disc brake bikes are going strong.
I switched to disks after a near crash in the wet on V-brakes that wouldn't grip, won't go back
Well, I totally agree with the point about upgrading your current bike rather than bying a new one in "the same" price category (unless it has modern tech you can upgrade later on), but the ever increasing pressure for new/ expensive tech just for the sake of it is nothing but driving the base-price up.
Not to mention the weight gains.
To were out an alu. rim brake surface takes a long time, and the cost of replacing a rim is slim compared to upgrading your bike. The frame, group set, and wheels are completely different (and did I mention the weight?).
I love your content a lot, and you admit to be bias, but going from a singlespeedbike to one with gearing can never be seen as the same as going from a light rimbrake bike with mechanical shifting, to a heavyer bike with disk brakes and electronic shifting. Both probably have a similar gear ratio as well.
I love the old rim brake bikes.
The only one i can run straight pull spokes on. 😉🤙
Rims do where out but I have wheels that are well in access of 30,000 miles on my commuter bike.
Electronic shifting is not faster than well maintained cables, the speed of change is dictated by the cassette.
Disc brakes, tubeless, and electronic shifting has moved the bike from transport that an enthusiast fix at home to a vehicle that has to be fixed by specialists. How many carbon bikes with integrated headsets are sat in a garage because it needs a £30 headset that costs £300 in labour.
How fast rims wear out on rim brake-equipped bikes depends on so much, well beyond how many miles or km they've been ridden. Like, whether they're allow or carbon, their quality and how well they're wiped down and maintained, pad quality and how well they're cleaned and kept in proper alignment and how often they're replaced when worn, amount and nature of road debris on typical rides, terrain covered and how often and how you brake and the kind of riding you do, temperature, rain, and so on.
My Mavic alloy rim wheels are still doing fine after well over 10k miles, but I don't race or do long and crazy descents, I keep my pads aligned and replace them as needed and keep them and the rims clean and wiped, don't ride in the rain if I can help it, don't brake excessively, etc. Sure, they don't brake as well as good disc brakes would, but I don't really need them to for the kind of riding that I do. If I were buying or building a new bike today I'd almost certain get disc brakes, but I don't really miss them on my current bike.
Same with electronic vs. mechanical shifting, carbon vs Ti, 12s vs 10s, thru axle vs QR, and so on. An old car that was well-made to begin with and maintained properly doesn't stop being a good car just because newer cars are often better. Same with bikes, or, really, anything. Except tube TVs. Those are obsolete. And old phones, PCs and much digital tech. But that's a whole other thing because their software keeps getting updated and eventually outpaces older hardware. Bikes have no such analog, being, mostly, well, analog.
I've never had the rims on my rim brake wheels wear out. I do between 7-12K miles per year. Typically I replace my bike every 6-7 years and I've gone through 2 sets of ball bearings on wheels before it becomes a backup bike/wheelset. So I disagree that disc brakes are cheaper in the long run. If you are doing enough braking to wear down your rims, you will go through a ton of rotors which aren't cheap either.
I've never seen a worn out rim brake wheel but absolutely choose (hydraulic) disc when buying a new bike if for no other reason than it will be worth something when you're done with it where a rim brake bike will be very difficult to sell.
For sure mechanical shifting is more than adequate.
I love the disk brakes on my mountain bike - they always work the same. On my road bike rim brakes work just fine as the rims are usually not full of crud and water.
Can you tell me which bike on the thumbnail
I always hear this about wheel longetivty...
I have multiple sets of carbon rim wheels that have tens of thousands of km's of use that are still solid. I have yet to wear out a rim brake wheel in my lifetime.
With that said, I'm light at 68kg, ride road and rarely ride in bad weather/slop. I personally see no value in moving to disk for the riding I do and it frustrates me to no end that the major manufacturers are forcing me to make the move if I want a new bike.
I'm using a Fully MTB and a Gravel with Discbrake and it's great! I own an old Specialized Hardtail with Rimbrakes and it's horrible. The electronic shifting in my opinion ... why!?!?
Trying stuff out in a bricks and mortar shop and then buying online is pretty skeezy IMO. If I try something in a shop and they have what I want, I'm buying it there. I buy stuff online, too, but only when I'm buying a replacement for something I already have experience with, or when I'm willing to take my chances and deal with the possible hassle of online returns.
YES! If my LBS has what I want, I buy from them. Especially if it's something that one should try on before buying, like a bike, a trip to the LBS is worth it. Who cares if it costs more, provided it fits your body type and the type of riding you do? The advice a LBS can give is PRICELESS!
Totally agree with Nick on what he said about bike shops. Going in to want to test ride a bike and then buy online at a cheaper price is not a good. I've been going to my local bike shop since they opened years ago. Get all my servicing done with them, wheels built bike built up etc. During Covid when a bike hub replacement was taking ages from Shmano the owner lent me a spare wheel. he's put a spare chain wheel on too and tuned the gears or other odd thins Ive popped in with for free. Build up a relationship and it works both ways. It's like an insurance paolicy for your bike.
Instead of having several complete bikes hanging, I'd eventually like to get it down to two wheelsets (gravel/road) and a bunch of hanging frames with components. Then I just drop whichever frame I want to ride that day onto the wheels. Saves me some room.
Can you do a video test ride with Dechatlon triban 900 titan gravel thanks
I just never think of the new bike cost with the local bike shop conundrum. Except for a complete bike I bought during the pandemic for the frame (at LBS) and immediately broke it down & parted out (at a profit!) before riding it, my bike(s) are just a continually replacement of parts that evolve and every now & then I'll replace the frame/fork. In fact I just looked at my spreadsheet & discovered that the handlebars on my newest bike (frame) are from 2007! That being said, I could get everything mail order and save a lot of money, but I make it a priority to support LBS with many parts, especailly consumables other than tyres. Even though I build my own wheels, I'll get them to true and retension my wheels occasionally just to keep a labor relationship with them & have "water coller" talks.
I love my new carbon disc brake bike
It’s so comfortable and brakes 5x quicker than my rim brakes
+ my body doesn’t hurt anymore with all the shock absorption the new bike provides compared to my vintage 2008
Nothing wrong with rim brakes,nothing wrong with disc brakes. A lot of people won't even wear out a set of tyres before they sell it or permanently park it up. But,they have still made bikes cheaper for everyone else.
Do disk brakes load up the front fork under braking reducing the flex and grip? Forks are meant to flex keeping tyre contact over bumps. Should bikes have rear disk only?
No and no.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 YES and no. Yes, because of course they load up the fork. That is physics... That's why forks for disc brakes are constructed differently and are much stiffer, therefore reducing flex and traction and increasing vibration, hence why you need bigger tires to make up for the mess you didn't need to create in the first place...
No, because the breaking power of disc brakes is already too great with slim tires, so there is absolutely no need for them in the rear, which is even less used when breaking.
@ Nope. The fork is equally loaded, regardless of the brake type. The force is a function of the rider, the vector, and the frame (thru which the fork and stem bear the load. There is also an issue of brake balance. Braking two wheels is more effective than just one. The forces are handled through two contact patches after all.
Rim break fans on here must be all fair weather riders. Nothing beats the stopping power of discs in the wet.
@@toolazytoo Most amateur road riders ARE fair weather riders... If you're not, you're the exception. Buy disc brakes, by all means. And then slide out in the wet because the stopping power is to great...
It depends on the conditions where you live. If you live somewhere that's relatively flat and rolling -- with predictable weather -- like I do-- disc brakes seem like overkill. I 've ridden 12,000k this year and, let me think, hmm, I rode in the rain three times.🤔
Disk rider here, and I have never, ever used more than 70% braking force as the problem is that the tyres just give and you slip and slide - happened recently in Portugal, didn't know the road and came to a 90 degree corner at speed and my newish GP5000 just fishtailed. I always use 25% to 35% force and brake with both levers evenly. RIM brakes are just as effective - unless you have carbon rims in the wet of course.
Yes 😊
Who the hack likes riding in the rain? 😂
Brakes are for decelerating if your hands get tired or you don’t have the grip strength to lockup your brakes in a dangerous situation disc brakes are for you. If you are a racer I would recommend disc so you could brake a little later in the corners. For the majority of cyclists rim brakes because they are effective and easy to maintain.
Christ, it's almost like Nick sells electronic groupsets, disk brakes and carbon wheels. Consider this carefully before taking his advice.
A more charitable take is that he sells what he believes in. Which happens to have the highest price and widest profit margin, but still.
Yes, Nick is so proud of the things he is SELLING. I wouldn't recommend his advice on anything
That smirk doesn't make me think 'sincere'.
He's just member of the bike technology must always move forward cult. "Otherwise we'd all be riding penny-farthings." Everything is a compromise in some way or another and it is very possible that for some riders we already reached the perfect balance of strength, lightness, durability and cost back when Nitto and Shimano and all the Japanese brands were booming. You can always spot the type of person who has blind faith that if something is newer, and different in some way, it's an "upgrade".
@@cd0u50c9 spot on
I don't think its a case of disc brakes themselves but a heading towards being overly complicated systems of what's meant to be a simple machine, I use full mechanical disc brakes which are more than enough to bring you to a full stop going downhill at 30mph on tarmac despite what I was told, set up is everything.
nick is so right. tyre pressure makes way more difference than most other factors. followed by fit...but then I would say that.
I live where mountains are scarce. I had built up a new road bike using a pair of carbon wheels from my old bike. Virtually no ware. The only benefit of going to disc brakes, is being able to put tires wider than 28 m tires on. Of course if I had decided to go with disc brakes. The cost would be easily doubled.
I have disk brakes on my bike and I dislike them intensely.
To me traditional brakes and pads have much more feel to them and inspire more confidence.
I have a couple of older rimbrake bikes, Madone 4.3 and 2011 Infinito. It's fat enough around here I'll never wear out those rims.
Agree with rebuilding upgrading bike ahead of buying the latest fad. I bought a 1998 Colnago frame second hand in 2006 which was covered in clear tape and as new. Built it up with 2007 Campag Record and Campag Neutron alloy wheels. Upgraded to the latest Campag Record 12 Speed this year to get lower gears and bought another set of Neutrons on sale at Wiggle before they went bust. Still riding the original Neutrons which are now 18 years old and only repacked the bearings once. Do about 7k per year so don’t agree with comment about longevity of alloy wheels. Biggest issue not being able to fit wider tyres to run lower pressures. Running Conti GP 5000 25c at 75. Used to ride at 100 in the old days. Great bike shop love your in shop videos
Carbon rims last a loooong time. I did 50,000km on mine and retired them in very good condition. Campy rim brake pads are the best.
Rims wear out but my race wheels are over 10 years old and still have minimal wear, they are retired to the cross bike now .. I wouldn't use decent wheels for winter riding , chain gangs etc anyway, too much opportunity for destruction.
If you can only afford one bike ( lack of cash or storage) then fair enough getting a disc bike might make sense otherwise makes no odds for most of us.
I've got 2 cx bikes, the rim brake one is quicker, even if it's muddy ( unless it's clay and hay😂)
Expensive fancy stuff doesn't make you a cyclist. Its getting out there a pedaling every day/week that makes you a cyclist.
I'm still riding my old Schwinn Le Tour. Hi-Ten frame, downtube shifters, all the old stuff. Been riding this bike since 1997.
While wearing a Princeton jersey... Rim brakes are not the issue, online discounts are the issue.
I bought my trekking bike used, nearly 3 years ago. Before I had it, it was in use for about 5 years. Still has the same brakes, still working as they should. Only the brake fluid, in my case, mineral oil, has to be refilled every now and again. I wouldn't buy a bike with rim brakes anymore. Disc brakes work properly during any weather, regardless of if they're wet or not.
I've built two custom rim brake bikes in the past month.
Brake pads for disks pads (the wear items) are the same price or cheaper than rim brake pads, except at the highest end, which is pointless anyways. Hydraulic fluid is cheap, and cables do wear anyways. We can talk about electronic groupsets and all that jam, but I strongly doubt diskbrakes even add a single dollar to a manufacturer's cost to produce for road bikes. MT201 disk brakes (preloaded) are available for cheaper in the US than 105 rim brakes caliper only.
In theory, rims wear out. In pratice, when was the last time you saw a worn out rim and that needed to be replaced?
I’ve been riding for over 17 years and I don’t think I have had any rim brake wheel sets ever wear out to the point that they need to be replaced, and I’ve ridden tens of thousands of miles in my years.
Also, your disc doesn’t just get slightly cooked, they completely warp and go completely out of true 😂😂😂
I feel that the main reason disc brakes should/can be considered, is to have strong braking when using deep-rim carbon wheels. Rim-braking on carbon wheels is simply inferior will all except the most $$$ wheels, and by then, it's probably cheaper to buy the disc-brake bike since the wheels are in $1000+ range. But if you're not a racer, and you're not chasing down those last few seconds/minutes, rim brakes on alloy wheels not only brakes well, but does it as well as hydraulic top-end brakes on a road bike (mtn bike hydraulic are stronger though). So for the vast majority of folks, rim brakes are all they will ever need. (It is also however true that the deep carbon wheels are faster in most cases, by a lot in time-trials/triathlons, so having the ability to upgrade to disc-brakes was actually quite helpful to someone like myself who always lamented carbon rim-braking hazards.)
I've been riding since 1987, I have _never_ replaced a wheel set due to brake track wear. I don't think I personally know anyone that has worn out their brake track to the point where the wheels needed replacing.
.
*Knowing I can pretty much work on my group set without an electrician or £1.5k for replacement parts is liberating.*
Disc Rotors are very much more expensive than the occasional new wheelset, especially for „average Joe“ riders.
You need to replace brake pads, rotors and brake fluid vs just pads with rim brakes. Rim brake pads will last twice to thrice as long as disc brake pads do.
The entry cost for disc brakes and electronic shifting aren't really in the same ballpark. Lots of really cheap bikes come with good shimano hydro discs, especially true for flat bar bikes (anything "road" gets an automatic premium). There's no budget option for shimano electronic shifting like there is for disc brakes.
My bike shop takes great care of me. That comes with a price IMO. I'm willing to pay a few dollars more at the shop, knowing I could get some things cheaper on line, to get that outstanding service. Most often they surprise me with a slight discount at the register.
My rim brake bike has 23mm tyres pumped up to 100psi. They're okay on smooth roads but brutal on rougher roads. My disc brake bike is currently running 34mm tyres and they're superb. I tend to be faster on the disc brake bike because it is so much smoother. I still like my rim brake bike but these days it spends most of it's time on the trainer.
I’d always come to a bike shop. They look after you 😊
For demoing bikes, my opinion is that the bike shop can charge a fee for the bike demo and the fee can roll into the final purchase. Here bike demoing doesn't mean just a quick spin around the neighborhood. Instead the customer should be able to take it out for the full day to have a proper ride
That's a great idea
I fear there is a danger in every string of comments on this topic, that people are left unhappy, which is such a shame as biking shouldn’t do that to us.
I have driven myself nuts over these issues in the past and wish I hadn’t.
My suggestion is, first get a bike fit to check what might be suitable for you, if you’re unsure about what size or type of bike to go for. Then buy what appeals to you, for the riding you do, and try not to worry about having made the wrong decision.
I know lots of people who ride mechanical / rim braked bikes and love them. Go back a few years and that’s all there was and people loved cycling for goodness sake! Mechanical has evolved over years of honing, to the point where trickle down components means you can buy a brilliant bike for not much money, but I’ve gone in a different direction. My current bike is a 2022 Giant TCR with 12 speed Di2 and disc brakes. If it helps anyone, this is why I chose it:
- I ride casually with mates, sometimes pushing hard and sometimes going easy and chatting and am not looking for the very lightest bike. This is often brought into the debate, but I think many weekend riders like me worry far too much about weight.
- The battery last for ages. 100 miles is my comfort / enjoyment limit, and I’m pretty organised about getting the bike ready for weekends, so have never run out of charge
- Disc brakes give me confidence and I really haven’t experienced any issues with them. I had some rubbing initially that I fixed and have ridden thousands of miles without any further issues.
- some might miss the feeling of mechanical shifting, but I haven’t. I love the way that electronic shift works every time. I use the front mech more as a result and like how the brake lever travels straight, not having to shift.
- my bike came with really nice carbon wheels and I have no issue with them.
- I’m lucky that I could afford the stupid price tag, through 0% finance and justified it on the basis that I look after my bikes really well and spreading the cost over years meant it wouldn’t be such an expensive hobby. Plus it keeps me fit!
- I love the colour and look of my bike. Silly? Yes, objectively. Perhaps I am silly, but it makes me genuinely happy to look at and ride it.
What I don’t like is that I think there must be a risk that my group-set will become obsolete and the whole thing will need replacing, which will be costly. That is less of an issue with mechanical, but I’m ok with the risk.
Bottom line is there’s nothing I dislike about my bike, but that’s just me!
I plan to ride it for years and must keep in mind that there will always be a new model with fancier things, but not one that will make me happier I’d imagine.
The rim brake wheels on my road bike are 10 years old and the brake surfaces are fine, I've never worn out the braking surface on a road bike, MTB yes, road, no.
It’s funny that we‘re living in the most individualistic and „consumer-oriented“ society in human history but often can’t buy what we actually want. We get to buy what the industry wants us to buy.
I wanted to buy a new carbon-frame road bike this year, but I did not want hydraulic disk brakes and tubeless tires because of the costs of purchase and maintenance. There were no all-carbon alternatives among the Trek bikes.
cable snob coz im poor ! also i get the having multiple batteries and changing out every so often but id rather not need more electronics on my bike or in my home
disc isnt killing cycling , rediculous prices are
It's funny/sad that Sram has electronic groupset at the same price as mechanical Shimano GRX.
the commenter is 100% right. the reality is bikes dont need to be so complex and expensive. still getting koms on my 105 alu rim 2012 giant tcr. riding is what makes you faster. that bike just never breaks and parts are super cheap anyhow.
In 50 years of riding I've only ever worn out one set of rims from braking. Does it happen? Yes of course. Is it a major concern? Nope! Where bikes are concerned I stick to the K.I.S.S principle. Bikes should be simple enough that the owner can keep them in good repair.
Agreed. I have a 22-year-old Trek Fuel (original owner) with V-brakes. They work great, and I’m still using the original rims that came with the bike. I also have a Giant Anthem Advanced 2 that came with disc brakes. They work great as well, but I don’t have to have them. Now, the seat dropper post-that was a worthy improvement for mountain biking. :)