Good debate but God is not the Author of confusion. It's simple if you read the Bible yourself. Jesus is the Son of God sitting at the right hand of the Father. Easy
@Josh No, Jesus clearly has his own will. Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.”
So in John 17verse 3 Jesus refers to himself as being sent by God now Jesus says in this chapter. John 13 verse 16 how true it is that a servant is not greater then his master NOR IS THE MESSENGER MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOD WHO SENT HIM.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:28
Where in the bible does it say you will be saved for confessing that Jesus is God? All who declare that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. 1John 4:15
Here it is,Now dig..The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit 00:0007:13 PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God. Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity. “THE WORD WAS GOD” John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God. Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.” GET MORE FACTS Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion. For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God. CONFIRM THE FACTS Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God? Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows? As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.-Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
George Mason INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPAEDIA: "The doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the Apostles' preachings, as this is reported in the New Testament" (First Edition, Vol. 18, Page 226). NEW INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA: "Theterm 'Trinity' was originated by ... Tertulian, a Roman Catholic church father. No record of the Trinitarian formula can be discovered in the Acts of the Apostles... At the time of the Reformation, the Protestant Church took over the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination" (Vol. 1, Page 396). NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: "With regard to the form used for Baptism in the early church, there is the difficulty that although Matthew (28:19) speaks of the Trinitarian formula, which is now used, the Acts of the Apostles (2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13; 6:11; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3) speak only of Baptism 'in the Name of Jesus.' Baptism in titles cannot be found in the first centuries..." (McGraw Hill Publishing, Page 59).
Jesus is the " Son of the Living God"- Matthew 16:16. If Jesus speaks about " union" or " becoming one", it means " following the same lifestyle , just as Jesus did." See John 17:20-23; 14:6,12
Many scriptures from the writers were bias that's why there were 4 gospels to show that. plus many verses were added later and some earlier so deciding on the accuracy is suspect to flaws. Yes the scripture is authentic yet the writers wrote in their bias.
This is so easy to explain. God gave his only son to give us eternal life, this is what we preach. The part if Jesus is God is not what Jesus wanted us to preach.
22:28 - I could not resist the temptation to respond to this point. White says that we "can't start with the presupposition of Unitarianism and" enforce it upon the text, but that's exactly what Christians do when they read the Tanakh. They enforce a Trinitarian presupposition on a "Unitarian document" without letting the text instruct them. Brown says that it was a perfectly natural Jewish position to believe in the complex unity of God (Minute 34:12), but then quotes (Minute 48:17) John 5:18, in which the Jewish audience wanted to kill Jesus. If Jews had a natural predisposition to believing in the plurality of God, why did they want to kill Jesus?
I know I am late, but one answer to your last question would be: those Jews didn't believe a man could be God. Incarnation and Plurality-of-God are two different things.
Because Jesus wasn't wat they expected black man talkn bout he is who uve been waiting on, remember, they where and are waiting on a king of kings he was born in the slums praise Jesus
Questions for Trinitarians 1. The Father has a name, the Son has a name. What is the name of the Holy Spirit? 2. In Paul’s epistles, why did he leave out salutations to the Holy Spirit? 3. Why is there no conversation recorded between the Father and the Holy Spirit or the Son and the Holy Spirit? 4. Isaiah 45:21, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this verse? 5. Isaiah 57:15, the Father dwells only with the Son? 6. Matt 28:18-20 - Jesus commanded his disciples to baptise in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, his disciples in the book of Acts only baptise in Jesus name. Why? 7. Revelation 22:1, why is there a seat for Jesus but no seat for the Holy Spirit at the Great White Throne? If the Father is the Son and vice versa, why is there a need for separate thrones? 8. Why John 1:1 does not mention the Holy Spirit? 9. Why was 1John 5:7 only added in AD325? This verse is not found in scriptures before that time. 10. John 5:30, John 6:38, If the Son is also the Father, why would there be 2 wills? 11. John 10:30, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned? 12. Revelation 5:7, why would God hand the book to Himself? 13. Revelation 11:15, why only mention Lord and Christ but not the Holy Ghost? 14. John 10:30, why Jesus did not include the Holy Spirit? 15. 1Cor 3:23, Christ belongs to God or Christ is God? 16. 2John 1:3, why John’s salutation also omit the Holy Spirit?
So many Trinitarian Christians will use the verse to verify the Trinity: The Father and I are one" and also " When you see me you have seen the Father." Wonder why they don't respond with: The Father, I and the Holy Spirit are one" and When you see me you have seen the Father and..... the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity why is he left out of the equation so often??Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Holy Trinity comprise of three coequal, coeternal "Persons" Distinct, but ONE???? Do I have the definition wrong.
Add to that (the oneness of God the Father and Jesus), John 17: 20-26… “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” Does this mean we’ll all be absorbed into them, to become one with them? (Hmm, that would turn trinitarian into trillitarian - trillions of us as one God; forgive me if that’s sacrilegious; just trying to make a point). This scripture seems to clarify God and Jesus as separate beings with one purpose … a purpose that we’re to adopt so that we may become one with them - one in love, in mercy, and in striving to see all people and things thru their eyes…
It's clear to me, when Jesus/Messiah said to Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to..... MY GOD". (Jesus said he has a God) Also Rev 3.12 (4 more times Jesus says "My God" 📖 (it is written)
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 😊24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
This comment makes sense as someone who was raised in a non trinitarian church, my wife was raised a trinitarian out discussion regarding this topic are heated but respectful lol
@@Zipfreer The branch of gnostics that I'm familiar with denied that Jesus had flesh because they believed material existence to be evil and their God would not have any part in it. That's why St. Ignatius in the 1st/2nd century constantly reaffirmed the incarnation, death and resurrection against them in his letters.
The debate is interesting. The men represented here are excellent. My comment is simply to have another debate where these same men address where the Trinity (word) came from. Who brought the doctrine into the church? Were these men strictly bible believers or were they philosophers? A debate on the historical origin of said teaching would settle the debate once and for all. Trading scripture back and forth is entertaining, but it does not resolve the real issue. Peace.
Good observation. Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also. Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity n
Good observation. Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also. Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity
56:22 A better example would be that if a king wants to build a castle, he will commission and assign builders but in the end, it was the king who built the castle. The builders would get praised as having done a wonderful job but everyone would say and agree that the king built it including the builders even though we know that technically it was built by the hands of the builders.
I have a few questions for Trinitarians: If indeed there is a Trinity and all are equal, where in the Bible is it said or even suggested that the Holy Spirit is to be worshiped or in any way equal to Yahweh? I can see how the confusion/lack of understanding of the person of Yeshua is derived, but isn't it clear why the argument for the Trinity never tries to equate the Holy Spirit with God? And if one part of the so called Trinity is not equal, doesn't that just throw a spanner in the whole theory?
Matthew 28:19 when we're told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To be baptized into God is what the verse is about. If Jesus and the Spirit are not God, then we are being baptized into "the One true God.. and a created being, and a presence of God" essentially. putting the latter two persons in the same sentence as God, if the two are not God, doesn't makes sense.
@dee mark 5:7 read verse Matthew 28:18 all authority have been given to me- given meaning he doesn’t have authority without the Father GIVING it them … 1 Corinthians 15 says Jesus presents perfected creation to the Father so THE FATHER may be all in all
I come with a belief in john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6 that flat out state that God the Father is the one and only true God, but I feel the unitarians did a worse job than the trinitairans did in proving their points.
If there is a trinity, and the father is the father of the son, why does the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, and impregnate her. Wouldn't that make the Holy Ghost the father? If that is so, why does the father get to claim fathership of the son when the Holy Ghost is clearly the father of the son, so who does the son call father. Yet later on Jesus says I and my father are one, and when you have seen me you have seen the father. Sounds like a bunch of confusion to me. I'm glad I know that Jesus is none other than God Almighty, manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Kimberly H You're right, God is in us. Both Jesus and the Father are in us. John 4:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Then my Father will love him, *and we* will go to him and make our home within him.
God is in control. His plans always come true. This issue is one of a few that show who is a true follower of Christ, and who is following Satan yet believe they are in the light.
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 Trinitarians say they are three in one God and equal but the Scriptures say otherwise.
no where in the entire old testament do you get anything trinitarian. on the contrary, over and over and over again, the old testament repeatedly states GOD IS ONE, and there is NONE else besides him. "Hear O Israel YHWH is our god, YHWH is ONE. Even the new testament itself never gets you to a clear trinity. God, "the father," is always contrasted to, and being supreme above, Jesus, the son.
@HeroOfChristArchives Do you even understand the quote? Jesus said he receive command from The father, which means he does not have same rights as the Father. If you say The Father is God Almighty and Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and messenger of god who create miracles with the spirit of God like Jonah pbuh, then the quote make sense. If you insist Jesus is god almighty, it does not fit the quote.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Acts 7:56 “Look”, he said. “I see Heaven Opened and the Son of Man standing at the Right Hand of God.” (At his Right Hand not on his Throne as the Father, because the Father is Greater.)
You are wrong Micheal and here is why……. John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. The Father sent his Son and when you honour the Son you honour the Father and all the works of the Father, it’s not complex it’s simple. I take issue with individuals flaunting their education as if it bestows upon them a superior authority over the teachings of God. It is essential to remain humble in the presence of the Lord.
About education you are right. Brown and white are both on an intellectual ego trip. Repeating what they have been told to believe in school instead of knowing for themselves
Christ absolutely cannot be God. Revelation 3:12 Revelation 3:14 Colossians 1:15 John 20:17 Here we clearly have the scriptures telling us that Christ himself has a God, therefore he cannot be God. Furthermore the scriptures is also telling us that God the Most High created Jesus.
This was a very good debate. My question is of Jesus is an Agent or representative of God then why would he share a throne with an agent of his in heaven and have all creation worship his agent rather than himself as God?
He is his Son. He is the heir to the Throne. But since the Father can not die, Jesus will live for eternity under his Father. He is the ertenal Prince of Peace. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:28
Emptying Himself didn't mean He put aside divine power or divine nature. It means He set aside His entitlement that came with being God's anointed human Messiah in order to live as a servant. Jesus Had the form (Morphe) of God and appeared (not physical appearance) like God in His character. He is the image of God. Not God Himself.
The Messiah, as God, was distinguishing between His relationship with the Father and His disciples’ relationship with the Father as adopted human creatures (Jn.1:12-13). Simonline 🤔🙏😀👍
@@simonline1194 When you write "the Messiah, as God...", you are literally saying "the anointed one of God, as God..." or "the man anointed by God, as God..."
So if Moses uses the staff to spit the red sea did the staff do it? Did Moses do it, or did God do it. The clear answer is that Moses did it only through he power of God. For thine is the kingdom, The POWER and the glory.
The Trinitarian argument seems to be mostly based on how other people referred to Jesus as God. But Jesus seems to always differentiate himself from God, refers to God as his Father.. I trust Jesus over the authors
You say that 70 people saw God... yet no-one can see God and live? So who did they see? John 1 explains "no-one has ever seen God, but the one and only God who is at the Father's side has made him known". How does 1 John 5:7 prove tampering. Surely, the fact that you can demonstrate that it was not part of the original is evidence that we can determine the original 'untampered' text, which is why modern translations leave the verse out.
I do not believe in the Trinity, however I think the Trinitarian's won this debate. I thought the rabbi that was with Sir Anthony was completely loss for words. Sir Anthony did not have the answers I thought he should have. He has done better in other debates. This was not a convincing debate from Sir Anthony and the Rabbi.
*Does trinitarian believe in 3 persons which are physical beings or 2 are physical and 1 is spiritual or do they believe that all 3 are seperate entities.*
just because Jesus pre existed with God befor the creation of this world, how does this proove that he is God the father? He maintained that the Father was and is greater than he. It seems to me that Jesus is the offspring of God and always was. He is by the choice of God our father from everlasting to everlasting , always was always will be. I have no problem with that but the father will in my opinion always be greater than the son. comments?
Concerning *κύριος* (kyrios), Dr. White and Dr. Brown forget to mention that the term is also used, for example, for "Masters of slaves" in both the Old and New Testaments (i.e. Exodus 21:5-6; Matthew 10:24). In the Hebrew Tanakh, it is transliterated as *’ăḏōnî*, or "my master," and such a term could be applied to anyone of high status and honor (i.e. Genesis 24:12, 44:5; 1 Samuel 30:13,15; 2 Kings 5:3,20,22; 6:15; 1 Kings 18:7,13; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16,28; 6:5; 8:5; Genesis 42:10; 23:6,11,15; 43:20; 44:18; 47:18; Judges 4:18, etc.). The Hebrew term *’ăḏōnaî*, on the other hand, is used specifically for YHWH in the Tanakh.
If the trinity is true then nobody "died for your sins". If a "part" of God was still alive after he "died" then he didn't die. However, we know that God and Jesus both have the ability to perform resurrections. So if "God's son" died the separate being that created him in the first place would be able to raise him from the dead. I'm sorry but "it's unexplainable" isn't a valid answer.
The statement, "Before Abraham was, I am," does not imply that Jesus was God before Abraham's birth but is a declaration that he existed prior to Abraham.
@@dimitris_zaha In the knowledge of God or with God in some way, like how jeremiah was already chosen to be a prophet in jeremiah 1:5 and God had already "chosen" many people before the creation of the world too.
Mister MrManwookie I am Derrick Myers and i live in Holland. I have a question about the water baptim. i am a little bit confused. Because i read : Matthew 28:19: Acts 2:38,Acts 8:16 Acts 19:2-6 Galatians 3:27 John 14:6 My Question is that we christians have to be baptize in the name of JESUS CHRIST ONLY an we will reserve the Holy Ghost not in Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? because that is just a title or a name. can u please explane this please. thank u god bless u
James white was asked if God is 3 persons gives us one scripture that says it and james white said "well there isnt one that says it exactly like that". But yet he wants us to believe it just because he says to believe. Trinitarians want us to believe in this triune God put together from scattered verses. You need to prove it. 1 john 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
+JC Lopez Right on Lopez. Brown and White are such False Teachers. Anyone who puts a lot of credence in their position is clearly someone who hasn't spend much time studying the Holy Writ, or Believe the Words of God and Jesus.
Interpretations belongs to Jehovah alone. Gen 40:8 Man must have Jehovah Interpretation and not his own private interpretation.2 Pet 1:20,21 Jehovah interpretation is Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:13-17 . The trinity doctrine is mentioned no where in the scriptures. Why. Because it's a private interpretation and it's not inspired of Jehovah.
The Bible doesn't claim that God is divided into three entities, or that Jesus himself is a part of God, so the point with the concept of trinity is not to go against the Bible and reject the oneness of God, or prove his humanity, but rather to explain how God as a single entity is capable of having a direct relation with humanity, and take part in the created world, despite being outside of time and space, so rejecting this basic concept means that God is only capable of having one of those three manifestations in the same moment, or is incapable of having the other two manifestations at all, what leads to a theological absurdity.
This is a very insightful comment, in my opinion. However, it assumes that God cannot relate to the created world without being in it. If this is what you're actually saying it exposes an imperfection in God. The way Judaism understands this, God can (and does) achieve this interaction without reducing Himself into a finite form, completely bypassing the need to establish any sort of divine intermediary. The idea of a finite reduction of God is essentially identical to polytheistic thought, as prohibited in Exodus 20:4. Now you may say that Christianity is guiltless here because it does not create a statue of Jesus. While true, that ignores the concept of the spirit of the Law, which is only guided by, but not necessarily limited to, the letter of the Law. While Christians may not create a physical statue of God, they assume that God can be expressed and represented in physical form, which is the precursor to actually creating one. The resolution is that God is capable of everything in a completely unified, intangible form. We struggle with this as human beings, but alas, God says, _"'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,' says the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.'"_ (Isaiah 55:8-9). I'm not sure how much more explicit you can get! Ironically Christians use these verses to support the Trinity, but they actually refute it! Good day.
when both people are wrong, there will be no rest. Here is what the bible teaches...There is a Godhead. Jesus stated that our heavenly Father is the true God. Even demons knew as well as the disciples that Jesus is the son of God. And Jesus said that he would give unto us ANOTHER Comforter. You see...there are three in the Godhead and only one is the only true God which is our heavenly Father.
the confusion here is the word "GOD"in Hebrew the word is called Alahym or Elohym which simply means mighty one...Judges were called Alahym...Christ called himself the son of The Mightiest (alahym, god) thus making him Mighty (god or Alahym) as well in the sense of him being a direct descendant of the Most High...this was why He was cruxified for blasphemy...because being a man he called Himself a descendant of Alahym giving him God status...but Christ is NOT the most high God...His father is...
Andre Greenidge When you have a son, by the time he is grown up, he can do all the things you can, and perhaps better. Jesus is the Son, but we also know His Father has given all Authority in heaven, and on earth to Him. The Father knows that when we worship Christ, we worship Him as well, because of their unity. Amen
I'm glad to see Unitarians in here. I posted how I was a Unitarian to I guess what seemed like a full trinitarian forum... They ended up locken my thread and then like within two days someone posts how more Christians today believe that Jesus is not God. That's because the ones who are having ears to hear are finally hearing.
There's no thing as trinity, it doesn't exist. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and Jesus never ever claims himself as God and he never ever claims divinity or say pray to me
@dandom01 - no you are incorrect. His eternal Sonship is relational, not in creative order and is for our benefit of understanding. Psalm 2:12 warns to Kiss the Son [align with] lest his anger be kindled, so the relation was known even back with David. Further, Micah 5:2 states his goings forth as not from Bethlehem forward as one may then think Christs' existence started at His birth there, but to show His eternal past, His goings forth from days everlasting [back]. You are ignoring much.
Is a man his father? No. He is his father 's son, yet, especially when the son is so much like his father, we tend to say "look at him...like father like son!". If we can get that sameness and that difference at the mortal human level, surely Holy God our Creator can have an Only Begotten Son, the same as His Father, yet, different?
Yes, it’s interesting how many people like to limit God based on our limited human capacity to understand eternal things… they cherry pick parts of the Bible to confirm what they’ve already decided to believe (& condemn everyone else for … cherry picking different scriptures to confirm their different belief.). My experience with Evangelical trinitarians is too many are more interested in being “right” & proving everyone else wrong (& therefore going to hell), than in following the first 2 great commandments: love God with all your heart, might, mind,, and strength; and love others as yourself…
@MilanRossi - you are missing all the important verses. When Christ appeared he had put aside His Divine Power, not His Divine Nature. By becoming completely human as us, he could then be 'sent' by the Father, and be a 'Prophet' receiving 'command'. He had to be 'sent' as he was the 'Messenger' of the covenant. He could not send Himself. It's rather simple...
Son of God doesnt mean that he is God. Its a common used phrase. People can say they are son of God. That makes sense becuase God made us. We are his creation.
Their is no Trinity. Jesus was created by God. So when Jesus was saying Father forgive them who was He speaking to, When John the Baptist Baptized Jesus, the voice which came from Heaven, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, that Trinity concept came from the Council of Nicea, God Is God Alone. Jesus is God's son and the Holy Spirit is God's power.
The Trinity didn’t come from Nicea in 325. The creed even says. “We believe in one God, the Father” The Argument is basically what “stuff” Jesus is made of. He’s Begotten from the unbegotten Father. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father, not the son. The modern version of the Trinity is a modern day invention from the enlightenment period. The original Trinity is a Monarchy
It's like saying, "Mom's name is 'Carol.' There is only one Carol who is Mom. You can't just say that Carol is Mom, _and_ Grandma, _and_ Sissy. Those are three different things!" Sure, it's three names for three different ways that Carol is--a mother to her children, a grandmother to her grandchildren, and a sister to her siblings--but that doesn't mean there's more than one Carol.
So you are saying like as said in old testament if or let us us say... God>s(the father) name is "Yahweh" then...... the son of Yahweh can not said "Yahweh"! Why?, first what does it mean "Yahweh"? "Yahweh" means... the one true God or the one who brings whatever exists in to existence!! or simply he is the creator of the earth and the universe. So "is not Jesus the creator of the earth and the universe?? and Was not he the Word??...as written on John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the was God!" then on verses 14 - "then the word becomes flesh and dwelt among us and called Emanuel....w/h means God with us!. So Jesus who called "the son of God" (b/c God(the word of God).. revealed himself in body of flesh!) and so he is God!, the one true God and the creator( the word)!
If the trinity was biblical, surely we would have seen the word trinity or the doctrine 'one God three persons' in John 1 or in Paul's detailed theological writings. If God was trinity, He would clearly tell us through His Holy Word. The Bible clearly says: 1. There is one God, the Father. 2. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 3. God's Spirit is called the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Micah speaks of His origins being of Old meaning that He was foretold of and foreordained in scripture from ancient times. The same statement is made a number of different ways in scripture, all having the same meaning. It does not mean He is eternal or pre-existent.
James White said on Matthew 28:19 "In the name (singular)" then he finish off " of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". And no one in this comment section sees the contradiction in that? Very sad.
Here are some scriptures for you all that’s undebatable. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
Very interesting to listen to this debate. The one crucial issue is that Jesus NEVER ONCE claimed he was God. Now, if in fact he was God in the flesh, he would have revealed this, but never did. He was clear in saying he was sent BY God. Luke 4:17-21 (CSB): “The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him, and unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written: The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” The people in the synagogue got riled up & a growing opposition against him took place. “He also said, ‘Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown” There he states clearly he was likening himself to a prophet. Everyone in the synagogue was enraged & tried to force him up a hill intending to push him off, but Jesus disappeared into the crowd. Seriously, can you see the ridiculous notion that Almighty God would have been bullied like this?? Of course not!!!
You are asking a question and expecting a "one verse" answer. As a Muslim you are supposed to ask: where in the bible did Jesus say "I am God worship me"? Why can you get the question right?
what a wonderful debate. For me using titles like God & Lord is what is confusing. God has a proper name Yahweh and Jesus is Yeshua. Unfortunately modern translations have taken Yahwehs name out of the writing & hence this confusion (LORD in caps is where the original name shud be) Two different beings surely. NT also says No-one knows the day or the hour not the angels, nor the Son but only the Father. Surely if Jesus was equal to His father he would know it. Also Corinthians 15 where Jesus subjects himself to Yahweh His father so that all things may be reconciled to Yahweh whether in heaven or on the earth. Yahwehs universal family will be brought into full unity and peace. I think the trinity doctrine is rather confusing. But then I only have one brain cell.
Anyone can claim 'God" showed them anything thus division in the congregations. There is no way to present the Trinity in Hebrew. Yeshua quoted scriptures and used common parables. The label "Trinity" is a religious trap. Neither Yeshua nor Paul ever mentions belief in "Trinity" for salvation. I strongly recommend, letting God be God without restrictions and minute definitions. Stick to Yeshua's plan of salvation and not man made traditions. I don't recommend sitting in the Judgment Seat.
as usual a unitarian brings up a really good point in context and then the trinitarians cut them off & proceed to run all over the bible piecing together anything they can out of context to justify their doctrine
Sectarians do not understand authority because they do not have authority. For example, Genesis 16 tells us that an angel appeared to Hagar at the fountain of water in the wilderness and told her to return to her mistress, Sarah. Hagar immediately said that the Lord God had told her to do this. Hagar was right. The Lord God had told her to return to her mistress. The angel had authority to speak for God. Jesus is the Son of God. He has authority to speak for the Father. When Jesus as Jehovah tells the backsliding idol worshipping children of Israel that he is the only true God, he is speaking for the Father. John 8:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father, He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Fatherwhich sent him. The Son has authority to say anything the Father would say.
I think the best way to find the truth. is to learn aramaic and greek. then learn the grammer of the scriptures of the time. not just reading King James Version, Both sides have great points and love Yeshuah Ha Meshiach. God bless everyone
Compare John 17:5 with John 17:24, and then with 1 Peter 1:20. 1 Peter 1:20 clearly says Christ was foreknown, the same Greek word used in Romans 8:29. If you do your due diligence in rightly dividing the word, you can clearly see that Sir Anthony is correct on this point. And there's not really even a debate there.
there is one God who is the Father Jehovah and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit is not a being but is the Spirit of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and that is why Jesus Christ said i and my Father are one because they share the same Spirit and when a Christian accepts Jesus Christ the Father and Son dwell in the christian through their Holy Spirit. there are only two beings. God the Father and His only begotten Son. period.! trinity teaching is false and pagan and devilish.!
'God' is recognized as the Supreme Being. One being cannot be three persons, unless he/she is schizophrenic. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 explicitly states, "yet for us, there is one God, the Father..."; there is no "and the Son and Holy Ghost", that's not scriptural. That verse shows the 'kyrios' (Lord) Jesus was a 'shaliah', an agent/emissary that acts on behalf of the One (God) who empowers him. God created *through* his agent. If I shoot at a target with a gun, the gun is not ontologically 'me'.
The Trinity is Roman Catholicism and you won't find it anywhere in the early church Father's writings. Only after the Roman influences which lead up to the Council of Nicea in 325 will you find this. The first mention of a trinity is from Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] who gave a vague reference to it. Origen [a.d. 185-254] forwarded this concept and it was later accepted at the Counsel of Constantinople in 381 AD. Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius who were before them never speak of a trinity.
Actually I am not totally sure what Brown Believes, he dances around the issue so artfully and spins so tactfully, he actually confuses more than simplifies. It appears to me he speaks with a forked tongue.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Now Jesus, according to the Scriptures is sitting at the right hand of his Father, to be a mediator between God and man. (You can not mediate between yourself, and not sit next to your self even when you are schizophrenic.) Jesus prayed to his Father, not as a schizophrenic, but honestly and learned us also not to pray to him but to his Father who is greater than him, he said, and with whom he can do nothing. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3;15:28)
It is great that Jewish Voice is giving a "voice" to the other side. The Trinity is a pagan concept that was ratified by the Sun worshipping emperor Constantine during the counsel of Nicea around 300 years after the Messiah. The Trinity goes back to Egypt thousands of years before the Messiah. Egyptologists understand this all too well. See this booklet for proof: issuu.com/yrministry/docs/identifying_father_son_revised2
At 46:00 min non trinitarians ask trinitarians where in bible did Jesus teach that God is triune in being and once again top trinitarian scholars white&brown could not come up with one scripture in the whole bible. Are these the kind of men people follow? Another question trinitarians cant answer is why the holy spirit doesnt know the day or hour of Jesus return. Can u answer this questio?
good point..and that's why people favor the son over the father..you cannot deny seeing that everywhere...christians view god the father as a mean, vengeful being but view jesus as the sweet innocent loving son who gave his life..but these 2 are the same, no? why is it that all i hear is mentioning of jesus and praying to jesus? why not IMITATE jesus 100% and pray to the father like he did? it makes absolutely no sense to me..
The Trinity and the Nicene Creed Contradicts the Bible. All that the Nicene Creed did was take a vote and this took place about 325 AD well after the was compiled . There were lots confussion with the true nature of God after the persecution of the apostles and prophets. The Trinity is post biblical. As for me being a Mormon I believe in the pre-mortal existance (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Jeramiah 1:4-5, Acts 17:28, Ephesiasties 1:3-4, Hebrews 12:9, Jude 1:6, Revolations 12:9. Now Just by stating that lets get down to the Oneness that God talks about. The GodHead is unified, but however we believe that The 3 individuals are separate individuals that are ONE GOD IN PURPOSE, BUT NOT IN SUBSTANCE like the Trinitarians belief. We do believe that Jesus was Jehovah as a premortal being and under the fathers directions Jehovah did much of the creations in the old testiment. It is plainly mentioned in the Bible what was meant by the oneness if you read John 17:21. There are many other scripture passages (John 14:28, Acts 7:55,56, John 17:11,20-23). The New Testament speaks of Christ and the Father being in two separate places (John 17:3, Romans 15:6, 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 5:21). If you read in Gennesis Genesis 1:26 it states that there were multiples involved in the creations. I do not look at the Truth as something we vote on I believe the way I do through scripture study and revolation, and if you what to believe read James 1:5 and pray about it. Romy
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego thats a triune statement. Lol🥴. Trinity is does NOT originate with the scriptures... Jesus our savior was born (Col 1:15), Yaweh (Jah) has no beginning Nor end.... ONLY Yaweh knows the time of the End Not Jesus. How could 1 know and not the other. Jesus Died for our Sins. Yaweh resurrected him. Obviously if God Almighty (Pslm 83:18) died there would be NO ONE to resurrect 🤷🏽♂️. .... it goes one and on. Trinity Not in harmony with scriptures OBVIOUSLY
All apostles/christians during Jesus time only had the Old Testament and other writings to figure who Christ is,even book of Enoch describes Jesus in verse. Way before he came.
the question is..is jesus the begotten son of god, or just the son of god in which case we are all his children. If jesus was god, why did he eat and pray?
The 'Jesus' of trinitarians is a 'hologram' or mere 'human incarnation' of the Real Son of God who never came down from heavan because he is an essentail part of the 'trinity'! Thus hollow are Jesus words "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life ( Greek ='psychi' 'soul) on behalf of his friends. According to the trinity, that DIDNT happen for Jesus 'Soul' is claimed to have been intact as part of the trinity in heavan! Thus a mockery of Christ's Ransom. A mockery of God's love for us. A mocker of Christ's love for us too! No wonder it is not taught in any verse in the NT. If so, where?
Remarkable how scholars can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions...
In my opinion it might be that they are scholarly minded but not spiritually minded.......
Except when it comes to the false doctrine of tithing
That's exactly the problem with Christianity.
@@jameswagner2116Another one for the list. More about business.
@@aaronsanchez3141Jesus was not God
THE WORD "EMMANUEL" SAYS" GOD IS WITH US" ..PAUL SAYS" IF CHRIST BE FOR US WHO CAN BE AGAINST US"
Very astute.
Good debate but God is not the Author of confusion. It's simple if you read the Bible yourself. Jesus is the Son of God sitting at the right hand of the Father. Easy
AMEN!! And AMEN!!
Not easy. Does the father and the son have the same mind?
@Josh No, Jesus clearly has his own will. Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.”
@@Joshcaldwell24 Jesus knows God's word 100% so he can speak on behalf of the father with no corrupted conclusions. The only begotten son.
Amen and Amen.......
So in John 17verse 3 Jesus refers to himself as being sent by God now Jesus says in this chapter. John 13 verse 16 how true it is that a servant is not greater then his master NOR IS THE MESSENGER MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOD WHO SENT HIM.
Yes, Jesus is not more important than the Father. He willingly subordinates himself to the Father. This does not mean that he is not God.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
- 1 Corinthians 15:28
🙂👍🏻 One true God and His Son 🙌🏻
Where in the bible does it say you will be saved for confessing that Jesus is God? All who declare that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God.
1John 4:15
Here it is,Now dig..The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
00:0007:13
PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God.
Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity.
“THE WORD WAS GOD”
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”
GET MORE FACTS
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.
CONFIRM THE FACTS
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.-Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
George Mason
INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPAEDIA: "The doctrine of the
Trinity did not form part of the Apostles' preachings, as this is reported in
the New Testament" (First Edition, Vol. 18, Page 226).
NEW INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA: "Theterm 'Trinity' was originated by ... Tertulian, a Roman Catholic church father.
No record of the Trinitarian formula can be discovered in the Acts of the
Apostles... At the time of the Reformation, the Protestant
Church took over the doctrine of
the Trinity without serious examination" (Vol. 1, Page 396).
NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: "With regard to the form
used for Baptism in the early church, there is the difficulty that although
Matthew (28:19) speaks of the Trinitarian formula, which is now used, the Acts
of the Apostles (2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13; 6:11;
Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3) speak only of Baptism 'in the Name of Jesus.'
Baptism in titles cannot be found in the first centuries..." (McGraw Hill
Publishing, Page 59).
Jesus is the " Son of the Living God"- Matthew 16:16. If Jesus speaks about " union" or " becoming one", it means " following the same lifestyle , just as Jesus did." See John 17:20-23; 14:6,12
If Jesus said eternal life is to know the ONE true lGod and Jesus Christ whom God sent, that is good enough for me.😮
The big question is if Jesus was part of the Trinity or he was God, why did Jesus claim his God who is his God is the one and only true God?
Many scriptures from the writers were bias that's why there were 4 gospels to show that. plus many verses were added later and some earlier so deciding on the accuracy is suspect to flaws. Yes the scripture is authentic yet the writers wrote in their bias.
test Paul as a true apostle
This is so easy to explain. God gave his only son to give us eternal life, this is what we preach. The part if Jesus is God is not what Jesus wanted us to preach.
The trinity doctrine is man-made
@@rockstaricky your statements on accuracy of scripture are blatantly false.
22:28 - I could not resist the temptation to respond to this point. White says that we "can't start with the presupposition of Unitarianism and" enforce it upon the text, but that's exactly what Christians do when they read the Tanakh. They enforce a Trinitarian presupposition on a "Unitarian document" without letting the text instruct them.
Brown says that it was a perfectly natural Jewish position to believe in the complex unity of God (Minute 34:12), but then quotes (Minute 48:17) John 5:18, in which the Jewish audience wanted to kill Jesus. If Jews had a natural predisposition to believing in the plurality of God, why did they want to kill Jesus?
I know I am late, but one answer to your last question would be: those Jews didn't believe a man could be God. Incarnation and Plurality-of-God are two different things.
Because Jesus wasn't wat they expected black man talkn bout he is who uve been waiting on, remember, they where and are waiting on a king of kings he was born in the slums praise Jesus
Because it was already prophesied in the scripture that the Jews would kill Him.
@@davidgeorge6410 Exactly.
@@reynaldobellocillo1911which scripture is that please
Questions for Trinitarians
1. The Father has a name, the Son has a name. What is the name of the Holy Spirit?
2. In Paul’s epistles, why did he leave out salutations to the Holy Spirit?
3. Why is there no conversation recorded between the Father and the Holy Spirit or the Son and the Holy Spirit?
4. Isaiah 45:21, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this verse?
5. Isaiah 57:15, the Father dwells only with the Son?
6. Matt 28:18-20 - Jesus commanded his disciples to baptise in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, his disciples in the book of Acts only baptise in Jesus name. Why?
7. Revelation 22:1, why is there a seat for Jesus but no seat for the Holy Spirit at the Great White Throne? If the Father is the Son and vice versa, why is there a need for separate thrones?
8. Why John 1:1 does not mention the Holy Spirit?
9. Why was 1John 5:7 only added in AD325? This verse is not found in scriptures before that time.
10. John 5:30, John 6:38, If the Son is also the Father, why would there be 2 wills?
11. John 10:30, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned?
12. Revelation 5:7, why would God hand the book to Himself?
13. Revelation 11:15, why only mention Lord and Christ but not the Holy Ghost?
14. John 10:30, why Jesus did not include the Holy Spirit?
15. 1Cor 3:23, Christ belongs to God or Christ is God?
16. 2John 1:3, why John’s salutation also omit the Holy Spirit?
Very good questions that will leave trinitarians stunned.
Also the non trinitarian?
You left out:
Do they keep secrets from each other? If not why does only the Father know of the great day?
These are great questions for Google.
So many Trinitarian Christians will use the verse to verify the Trinity: The Father and I are one" and also " When you see me you have seen the Father."
Wonder why they don't respond with: The Father, I and the Holy Spirit are one" and When you see me you have seen the Father and..... the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity why is he left out of the equation so often??Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Holy Trinity comprise of three coequal, coeternal "Persons" Distinct, but ONE???? Do I have the definition wrong.
+Walt Jervey ----how can anyone logically assume that NUMERICALLY----THREE of anything adds up to one.?
Good job boys! Case closed. 🤦🏼♂️
Add to that (the oneness of God the Father and Jesus), John 17: 20-26… “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” Does this mean we’ll all be absorbed into them, to become one with them? (Hmm, that would turn trinitarian into trillitarian - trillions of us as one God; forgive me if that’s sacrilegious; just trying to make a point). This scripture seems to clarify God and Jesus as separate beings with one purpose … a purpose that we’re to adopt so that we may become one with them - one in love, in mercy, and in striving to see all people and things thru their eyes…
@@loridavis7086nailed it
This Jesus is God teachings has caused nothing but pure ambiguous confusion.
The problem with some people is they have imagination that will create things complicated out of the ordinary and say that that is the truth.
It's clear to me, when Jesus/Messiah said to Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to..... MY GOD". (Jesus said he has a God)
Also Rev 3.12 (4 more times Jesus says "My God" 📖 (it is written)
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
😊24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
This comment makes sense as someone who was raised in a non trinitarian church, my wife was raised a trinitarian out discussion regarding this topic are heated but respectful lol
Yes, Christianity did not destroy gnostic paganism; it adopted it." God in Flesh and 3 tri god are all pagan concepts and are not scriptural
@@Zipfreer The branch of gnostics that I'm familiar with denied that Jesus had flesh because they believed material existence to be evil and their God would not have any part in it. That's why St. Ignatius in the 1st/2nd century constantly reaffirmed the incarnation, death and resurrection against them in his letters.
The debate is interesting. The men represented here are excellent. My comment is simply to have another debate where these same men address where the Trinity (word) came from. Who brought the doctrine into the church? Were these men strictly bible believers or were they philosophers? A debate on the historical origin of said teaching would settle the debate once and for all. Trading scripture back and forth is entertaining, but it does not resolve the real issue. Peace.
Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. Does this not mean that there are two distinct entities, Father God and the son of Father God, Jesus Christ.
Exactly right
John 17 3
You are right
If Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, where is Holley Ghost seated?
Means he is sitting at his owen right hand 🤣
In John 14 Jesus Say's that his father is greater than he is. so if Jesus was God then how can one be greater than the other
They claim that the verse means 'co-equal'. 😂
Good observation.
Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also.
Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity n
Good observation.
Jesus submitted to His Father’s will. Entirely. His humility is our example to be obedient children also.
Jesus surrendered from His true humanity. TO His own true Divinity
Because Jesus explicitly saids over and over he came to serve (Matthew 20:28). This perfect example of humility is further shown in Philippians 2:5-11
56:22 A better example would be that if a king wants to build a castle, he will commission and assign builders but in the end, it was the king who built the castle. The builders would get praised as having done a wonderful job but everyone would say and agree that the king built it including the builders even though we know that technically it was built by the hands of the builders.
I have a few questions for Trinitarians:
If indeed there is a Trinity and all are equal, where in the Bible is it said or even suggested that the Holy Spirit is to be worshiped or in any way equal to Yahweh?
I can see how the confusion/lack of understanding of the person of Yeshua is derived, but isn't it clear why the argument for the Trinity never tries to equate the Holy Spirit with God?
And if one part of the so called Trinity is not equal, doesn't that just throw a spanner in the whole theory?
Matthew 28:19 when we're told to baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To be baptized into God is what the verse is about. If Jesus and the Spirit are not God, then we are being baptized into "the One true God.. and a created being, and a presence of God" essentially. putting the latter two persons in the same sentence as God, if the two are not God, doesn't makes sense.
There is no trinity in God they can't prove anything.
@@gypsytellingthetruththey did quite well in this debate.
@dee mark 5:7 read verse Matthew 28:18 all authority have been given to me- given meaning he doesn’t have authority without the Father GIVING it them … 1 Corinthians 15 says Jesus presents perfected creation to the Father so THE FATHER may be all in all
I come to this with a bias to one side but this is a really well done debate and very informative
I come with a belief in john 17.3 and 1 cor. 8.6 that flat out state that God the Father is the one and only true God, but I feel the unitarians did a worse job than the trinitairans did in proving their points.
@@jessenone3708 💯 truth
If there is a trinity, and the father is the father of the son, why does the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, and impregnate her. Wouldn't that make the Holy Ghost the father? If that is so, why does the father get to claim fathership of the son when the Holy Ghost is clearly the father of the son, so who does the son call father. Yet later on Jesus says I and my father are one, and when you have seen me you have seen the father. Sounds like a bunch of confusion to me. I'm glad I know that Jesus is none other than God Almighty, manifest in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Richard Tilley
The fullness of GOD dwells in us too.
This doesn't make us God Almighty.
Kimberly H You're right, God is in us. Both Jesus and the Father are in us.
John 4:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. Then my Father will love him, *and we* will go to him and make our home within him.
God is in control. His plans always come true. This issue is one of a few that show who is a true follower of Christ, and who is following Satan yet believe they are in the light.
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
- 1 Corinthians 11:3
Trinitarians say they are three in one God and equal but the Scriptures say otherwise.
if you only knows the father God name ( Jn 17:11-12). Jesus Christ is not God but he is the Son of God (Jn 20:17)t
I’m amazed by these 2 non Trinitarians who read the Bible for the decades they said they had but still not see that Jesus is GOD!
Well l was only a Trinitarian for 1 year, after understanding the scriptures l understood Jesus was not God. I am not a scholar.
Could say the same to the Trinitarian Scholars who have read the Bible for decades but haven't yet understood Jesus is not God. 😊
Jesus is the Son of God amen.
no where in the entire old testament do you get anything trinitarian. on the contrary, over and over and over again, the old testament repeatedly states GOD IS ONE, and there is NONE else besides him. "Hear O Israel YHWH is our god, YHWH is ONE.
Even the new testament itself never gets you to a clear trinity. God, "the father," is always contrasted to, and being supreme above, Jesus, the son.
NUMBERS 23:19 👈🏼👈🏼
@HeroOfChristArchives
Do you even understand the quote? Jesus said he receive command from The father, which means he does not have same rights as the Father. If you say The Father is God Almighty and Jesus pbuh is the Messiah and messenger of god who create miracles with the spirit of God like Jonah pbuh, then the quote make sense. If you insist Jesus is god almighty, it does not fit the quote.
This is a great debate and very informative presentation from the Trinitarians. Blessings
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
@@theguyver4934 Nonsense. Jesus is the SON of God. There is no trinity.
Acts 7:56 “Look”, he said. “I see Heaven Opened and the Son of Man standing at the Right Hand of God.” (At his Right Hand not on his Throne as the Father, because the Father is Greater.)
He spoke to who while dying on the cross ? Himself ? Did he ask himself to forgive them for they no not what they do ?
You are wrong Micheal and here is why……. John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
The Father sent his Son and when you honour the Son you honour the Father and all the works of the Father, it’s not complex it’s simple.
I take issue with individuals flaunting their education as if it bestows upon them a superior authority over the teachings of God. It is essential to remain humble in the presence of the Lord.
About education you are right. Brown and white are both on an intellectual ego trip. Repeating what they have been told to believe in school instead of knowing for themselves
Christ absolutely cannot be God.
Revelation 3:12
Revelation 3:14
Colossians 1:15
John 20:17
Here we clearly have the scriptures telling us that Christ himself has a God, therefore he cannot be God.
Furthermore the scriptures is also telling us that God the Most High created Jesus.
At one point Jesus as a character in the story says that the Father is greater. Look it up It’s John 14:28
This was a very good debate. My question is of Jesus is an Agent or representative of God then why would he share a throne with an agent of his in heaven and have all creation worship his agent rather than himself as God?
He is his Son. He is the heir to the Throne. But since the Father can not die, Jesus will live for eternity under his Father. He is the ertenal Prince of Peace.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
- 1 Corinthians 15:28
Why can’t these guys understand that Jesus RECEIVED all power & glory from God, his Father?
Emptying Himself didn't mean He put aside divine power or divine nature. It means He set aside His entitlement that came with being God's anointed human Messiah in order to live as a servant. Jesus Had the form (Morphe) of God and appeared (not physical appearance) like God in His character. He is the image of God. Not God Himself.
Jesus calls our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.
See also Rev. 3:12
The Messiah, as God, was distinguishing between His relationship with the Father and His disciples’ relationship with the Father as adopted human creatures (Jn.1:12-13). Simonline 🤔🙏😀👍
@@simonline1194 When you write "the Messiah, as God...", you are literally saying "the anointed one of God, as God..." or "the man anointed by God, as God..."
One of my go to verses against the Trinity. How can God have a God?
So if Moses uses the staff to spit the red sea did the staff do it? Did Moses do it, or did God do it. The clear answer is that Moses did it only through he power of God. For thine is the kingdom, The POWER and the glory.
The Trinitarian argument seems to be mostly based on how other people referred to Jesus as God. But Jesus seems to always differentiate himself from God, refers to God as his Father.. I trust Jesus over the authors
You say that 70 people saw God... yet no-one can see God and live?
So who did they see?
John 1 explains "no-one has ever seen God, but the one and only God who is at the Father's side has made him known".
How does 1 John 5:7 prove tampering. Surely, the fact that you can demonstrate that it was not part of the original is evidence that we can determine the original 'untampered' text, which is why modern translations leave the verse out.
I do not believe in the Trinity, however I think the Trinitarian's won this debate. I thought the rabbi that was with Sir Anthony was completely loss for words. Sir Anthony did not have the answers I thought he should have. He has done better in other debates. This was not a convincing debate from Sir Anthony and the Rabbi.
You are very honest i clap to you for that.
revelation 5:13 mention only 2 person. so there is no trinity
*Does trinitarian believe in 3 persons which are physical beings or 2 are physical and 1 is spiritual or do they believe that all 3 are seperate entities.*
Kudos to dr anthony buzzard and to non trinitarian explanation more understanble not complicated like trinitarian so much complex.
just because Jesus pre existed with God befor the creation of this world, how does this proove that he is God the father? He maintained that the Father was and is greater than he. It seems to me that Jesus is the offspring of God and always was. He is by the choice of God our father from everlasting to everlasting , always was always will be. I have no problem with that but the father will in my opinion always be greater than the son. comments?
Truth
Concerning *κύριος* (kyrios), Dr. White and Dr. Brown forget to mention that the term is also used, for example, for "Masters of slaves" in both the Old and New Testaments (i.e. Exodus 21:5-6; Matthew 10:24). In the Hebrew Tanakh, it is transliterated as *’ăḏōnî*, or "my master," and such a term could be applied to anyone of high status and honor (i.e. Genesis 24:12, 44:5; 1 Samuel 30:13,15; 2 Kings 5:3,20,22; 6:15; 1 Kings 18:7,13; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16,28; 6:5; 8:5; Genesis 42:10; 23:6,11,15; 43:20; 44:18; 47:18; Judges 4:18, etc.).
The Hebrew term *’ăḏōnaî*, on the other hand, is used specifically for YHWH in the Tanakh.
If the trinity is true then nobody "died for your sins". If a "part" of God was still alive after he "died" then he didn't die. However, we know that God and Jesus both have the ability to perform resurrections. So if "God's son" died the separate being that created him in the first place would be able to raise him from the dead. I'm sorry but "it's unexplainable" isn't a valid answer.
interesting point, ;)
The statement, "Before Abraham was, I am," does not imply that Jesus was God before Abraham's birth but is a declaration that he existed prior to Abraham.
Explain how did he exist before Abraham then
@@dimitris_zahamillions of people existed before Abraham that doesn’t make anyone God.
@@dimitris_zaha
In the knowledge of God or with God in some way, like how jeremiah was already chosen to be a prophet in jeremiah 1:5 and God had already "chosen" many people before the creation of the world too.
God is ONE and Yeshua is Our Messiah,,,,WE Thank God for Our Messiah.....
wonderful debate.. gonna watch part2 next! thanks for uploading this! btw is it just me or does the moderator look like george from seinfeld ? 😅
If Jesus is God why does in Mark 3:11 The evil spirit calls Jesus the Son of the most high God. Evil Spirits know truly know who the Son of God is.
Mister MrManwookie
I am Derrick Myers and i live in Holland.
I have a question about the water baptim. i am a little bit confused.
Because i read : Matthew 28:19:
Acts 2:38,Acts 8:16 Acts 19:2-6 Galatians 3:27 John 14:6
My Question is that we christians have to be baptize in the name
of JESUS CHRIST ONLY an we will reserve the Holy Ghost not in Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?
because that is just a title or a name.
can u please explane this please.
thank u god bless u
James white was asked if God is 3 persons gives us one scripture that says it and james white said "well there isnt one that says it exactly like that". But yet he wants us to believe it just because he says to believe. Trinitarians want us to believe in this triune God put together from scattered verses. You need to prove it.
1 john 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
+JC Lopez Right on Lopez. Brown and White are such False Teachers. Anyone who puts a lot of credence in their position is clearly someone who hasn't spend much time studying the Holy Writ, or Believe the Words of God and Jesus.
+JC Lopez Amen!
Interpretations belongs to Jehovah alone. Gen 40:8 Man must have Jehovah Interpretation and not his own private interpretation.2 Pet 1:20,21 Jehovah interpretation is Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:13-17 . The trinity doctrine is mentioned no where in the scriptures. Why. Because it's a private interpretation and it's not inspired of Jehovah.
The Bible doesn't claim that God is divided into three entities, or that Jesus himself is a part of God, so the point with the concept of trinity is not to go against the Bible and reject the oneness of God, or prove his humanity, but rather to explain how God as a single entity is capable of having a direct relation with humanity, and take part in the created world, despite being outside of time and space, so rejecting this basic concept means that God is only capable of having one of those three manifestations in the same moment, or is incapable of having the other two manifestations at all, what leads to a theological absurdity.
This is a very insightful comment, in my opinion. However, it assumes that God cannot relate to the created world without being in it. If this is what you're actually saying it exposes an imperfection in God. The way Judaism understands this, God can (and does) achieve this interaction without reducing Himself into a finite form, completely bypassing the need to establish any sort of divine intermediary.
The idea of a finite reduction of God is essentially identical to polytheistic thought, as prohibited in Exodus 20:4. Now you may say that Christianity is guiltless here because it does not create a statue of Jesus. While true, that ignores the concept of the spirit of the Law, which is only guided by, but not necessarily limited to, the letter of the Law. While Christians may not create a physical statue of God, they assume that God can be expressed and represented in physical form, which is the precursor to actually creating one.
The resolution is that God is capable of everything in a completely unified, intangible form. We struggle with this as human beings, but alas, God says, _"'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,' says the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.'"_ (Isaiah 55:8-9). I'm not sure how much more explicit you can get! Ironically Christians use these verses to support the Trinity, but they actually refute it! Good day.
Superbly stated!
when both people are wrong, there will be no rest. Here is what the bible teaches...There is a Godhead. Jesus stated that our heavenly Father is the true God. Even demons knew as well as the disciples that Jesus is the son of God. And Jesus said that he would give unto us ANOTHER Comforter. You see...there are three in the Godhead and only one is the only true God which is our heavenly Father.
case closed!!! well said
Nice :)
the confusion here is the word "GOD"in Hebrew the word is called Alahym or Elohym which simply means mighty one...Judges were called Alahym...Christ called himself the son of The Mightiest (alahym, god) thus making him Mighty (god or Alahym) as well in the sense of him being a direct descendant of the Most High...this was why He was cruxified for blasphemy...because being a man he called Himself a descendant of Alahym giving him God status...but Christ is NOT the most high God...His father is...
Christ is the SON
Andre Greenidge When you have a son, by the time he is grown up, he can do all the things you can, and perhaps better. Jesus is the Son, but we also know His Father has given all Authority in heaven, and on earth to Him. The Father knows that when we worship Christ, we worship Him as well, because of their unity. Amen
I'm glad to see Unitarians in here. I posted how I was a Unitarian to I guess what seemed like a full trinitarian forum... They ended up locken my thread and then like within two days someone posts how more Christians today believe that Jesus is not God. That's because the ones who are having ears to hear are finally hearing.
There's no thing as trinity, it doesn't exist. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and Jesus never ever claims himself as God and he never ever claims divinity or say pray to me
@dandom01 - no you are incorrect. His eternal Sonship is relational, not in creative order and is for our benefit of understanding. Psalm 2:12 warns to Kiss the Son [align with] lest his anger be kindled, so the relation was known even back with David. Further, Micah 5:2 states his goings forth as not from Bethlehem forward as one may then think Christs' existence started at His birth there, but to show His eternal past, His goings forth from days everlasting [back]. You are ignoring much.
Is a man his father? No. He is his father 's son, yet, especially when the son is so much like his father, we tend to say "look at him...like father like son!". If we can get that sameness and that difference at the mortal human level, surely Holy God our Creator can have an Only Begotten Son, the same as His Father, yet, different?
Yes, it’s interesting how many people like to limit God based on our limited human capacity to understand eternal things… they cherry pick parts of the Bible to confirm what they’ve already decided to believe (& condemn everyone else for … cherry picking different scriptures to confirm their different belief.). My experience with Evangelical trinitarians is too many are more interested in being “right” & proving everyone else wrong (& therefore going to hell), than in following the first 2 great commandments: love God with all your heart, might, mind,, and strength; and love others as yourself…
Did it ever occur to you that "same" and "different" are opposite words?
@MilanRossi - you are missing all the important verses. When Christ appeared he had put aside His Divine Power, not His Divine Nature. By becoming completely human as us, he could then be 'sent' by the Father, and be a 'Prophet' receiving 'command'. He had to be 'sent' as he was the 'Messenger' of the covenant. He could not send Himself. It's rather simple...
Jesus himself called himself the son of God..........why is there debate for petes sake.
Son of God doesnt mean that he is God. Its a common used phrase. People can say they are son of God. That makes sense becuase God made us. We are his creation.
Not everyone will be saved or enter the kingdom of God
I’ll dumb it down the debate is whether he was created or always existed.
Because that's not the only claim Jesus makes. You have to look at the full picture not just 1 verse.
Their is no Trinity. Jesus was created by God. So when Jesus was saying Father forgive them who was He speaking to, When John the Baptist Baptized Jesus, the voice which came from Heaven, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, that Trinity concept came from the Council of Nicea, God Is God Alone. Jesus is God's son and the Holy Spirit is God's power.
Exactly. Only a few would know bible truths
Exactly 👍
Thank you! The Trinity is Pagan hocus pocus.
The Trinity didn’t come from Nicea in 325.
The creed even says. “We believe in one God, the Father”
The Argument is basically what “stuff” Jesus is made of. He’s Begotten from the unbegotten Father. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father, not the son.
The modern version of the Trinity is a modern day invention from the enlightenment period.
The original Trinity is a Monarchy
It's like saying, "Mom's name is 'Carol.' There is only one Carol who is Mom. You can't just say that Carol is Mom, _and_ Grandma, _and_ Sissy. Those are three different things!" Sure, it's three names for three different ways that Carol is--a mother to her children, a grandmother to her grandchildren, and a sister to her siblings--but that doesn't mean there's more than one Carol.
Uhh no, that's modalism
Jesus was Son of God, not Son of Self!
So you are saying like as said in old testament if or let us us say... God>s(the father) name is "Yahweh" then...... the son of Yahweh can not said "Yahweh"! Why?, first what does it mean "Yahweh"? "Yahweh" means... the one true God or the one who brings whatever exists in to existence!! or simply he is the creator of the earth and the universe.
So "is not Jesus the creator of the earth and the universe?? and Was not he the Word??...as written on John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the was God!" then on verses 14 - "then the word becomes flesh and dwelt among us and called Emanuel....w/h means God with us!. So Jesus who called "the son of God" (b/c God(the word of God).. revealed himself in body of flesh!) and so he is God!, the one true God and the creator( the word)!
You can have a three in one computer. A laptop/desktop/and tablet but it’s one computer
You're making things waaaaay too complicated. God is the God of Truth, not a god of confusion.
If someone is gonna try solving the Trinity they gotta think in the 10th dimension and probably so
If the trinity was biblical, surely we would have seen the word trinity or the doctrine 'one God three persons' in John 1 or in Paul's detailed theological writings. If God was trinity, He would clearly tell us through His Holy Word. The Bible clearly says:
1. There is one God, the Father.
2. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
3. God's Spirit is called the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
how does one believe in trinity and claim to be monothiest?
it doesn't make sense
Correct.
The Trinity does not make any sense, because it is completely false.
Thats why the TRINITY is busting with contradictions!
Can you please show me the word trinity in the bible
Micah speaks of His origins being of Old meaning that He was foretold of and foreordained in scripture from ancient times. The same statement is made a number of different ways in scripture, all having the same meaning. It does not mean He is eternal or pre-existent.
James White said on Matthew 28:19 "In the name (singular)" then he finish off " of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". And no one in this comment section sees the contradiction in that? Very sad.
Here are some scriptures for you all that’s undebatable.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone
Very interesting to listen to this debate. The one crucial issue is that Jesus NEVER ONCE claimed he was God. Now, if in fact he was God in the flesh, he would have revealed this, but never did. He was clear in saying he was sent BY God.
Luke 4:17-21 (CSB): “The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him, and unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written:
The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me
to proclaim release to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set free the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
The people in the synagogue got riled up & a growing opposition against him took place.
“He also said, ‘Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown”
There he states clearly he was likening himself to a prophet.
Everyone in the synagogue was enraged & tried to force him up a hill intending to push him off, but Jesus disappeared into the crowd.
Seriously, can you see the ridiculous notion that Almighty God would have been bullied like this?? Of course not!!!
Trinitarians why did the old testament never mentioned my Son and me are one and existed with me eternally? Give me one verse only one!
You are asking a question and expecting a "one verse" answer. As a Muslim you are supposed to ask:
where in the bible did Jesus say "I am God worship me"? Why can you get the question right?
i find it impossible to read the bible and organically come away with jesus being god. i think that belief has to be fed to a person.
it's impossible to read the holy bible and end up trinitarian at the end of it, because it doesnt teach trinitarianism
what a wonderful debate. For me using titles like God & Lord is what is confusing. God has a proper name Yahweh and Jesus is Yeshua. Unfortunately modern translations have taken Yahwehs name out of the writing & hence this confusion (LORD in caps is where the original name shud be) Two different beings surely. NT also says No-one knows the day or the hour not the angels, nor the Son but only the Father. Surely if Jesus was equal to His father he would know it. Also Corinthians 15 where Jesus subjects himself to Yahweh His father so that all things may be reconciled to Yahweh whether in heaven or on the earth. Yahwehs universal family will be brought into full unity and peace.
I think the trinity doctrine is rather confusing. But then I only have one brain cell.
why is it so hard for western post enlightenment minds to accept paradox...
Anyone can claim 'God" showed them anything thus division in the congregations. There is no way to present the Trinity in Hebrew. Yeshua quoted scriptures and used common parables. The label "Trinity" is a religious trap. Neither Yeshua nor Paul ever mentions belief in "Trinity" for salvation. I strongly recommend, letting God be God without restrictions and minute definitions. Stick to Yeshua's plan of salvation and not man made traditions. I don't recommend sitting in the Judgment Seat.
Exactly
as usual a unitarian brings up a really good point in context and then the trinitarians cut them off & proceed to run all over the bible piecing together anything they can out of context to justify their doctrine
Sectarians do not understand authority because they do not have authority. For example, Genesis 16 tells us that an angel appeared to Hagar at the fountain of water in the wilderness and told her to return to her mistress, Sarah. Hagar immediately said that the Lord God had told her to do this. Hagar was right. The Lord God had told her to return to her mistress. The angel had authority to speak for God.
Jesus is the Son of God. He has authority to speak for the Father. When Jesus as Jehovah tells the backsliding idol worshipping children of Israel that he is the only true God, he is speaking for the Father.
John 8:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father, He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Fatherwhich sent him.
The Son has authority to say anything the Father would say.
True
I think the best way to find the truth. is to learn aramaic and greek. then learn the grammer of the scriptures of the time. not just reading King James Version, Both sides have great points and love Yeshuah Ha Meshiach. God bless everyone
Compare John 17:5 with John 17:24, and then with 1 Peter 1:20. 1 Peter 1:20 clearly says Christ was foreknown, the same Greek word used in Romans 8:29. If you do your due diligence in rightly dividing the word, you can clearly see that Sir Anthony is correct on this point. And there's not really even a debate there.
Very funny when trinitarian said "cant deny all the scriptures and just pick some...
Straight to unitarian faces😂
Right! 😂
there is one God who is the Father Jehovah and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit is not a being but is the Spirit of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and that is why Jesus Christ said i and my Father are one because they share the same Spirit and when a Christian accepts Jesus Christ the Father and Son dwell in the christian through their Holy Spirit. there are only two beings. God the Father and His only begotten Son. period.!
trinity teaching is false and pagan and devilish.!
'God' is recognized as the Supreme Being. One being cannot be three persons, unless he/she is schizophrenic. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 explicitly states, "yet for us, there is one God, the Father..."; there is no "and the Son and Holy Ghost", that's not scriptural. That verse shows the 'kyrios' (Lord) Jesus was a 'shaliah', an agent/emissary that acts on behalf of the One (God) who empowers him. God created *through* his agent. If I shoot at a target with a gun, the gun is not ontologically 'me'.
The Trinity is Roman Catholicism and you won't find it anywhere in the early church Father's writings. Only after the Roman influences which lead up to the Council of Nicea in 325 will you find this. The first mention of a trinity is from Tertullian [a.d. 145-220] who gave a vague reference to it. Origen [a.d. 185-254] forwarded this concept and it was later accepted at the Counsel of Constantinople in 381 AD. Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius who were before them never speak of a trinity.
Actually I am not totally sure what Brown Believes, he dances around the issue so artfully and spins so tactfully, he actually confuses more than simplifies. It appears to me he speaks with a forked tongue.
finally a wise answer , peace!
Sir Anthony is truly a righteous man of God
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Now Jesus, according to the Scriptures is sitting at the right hand of his Father, to be a mediator between God and man. (You can not mediate between yourself, and not sit next to your self even when you are schizophrenic.) Jesus prayed to his Father, not as a schizophrenic, but honestly and learned us also not to pray to him but to his Father who is greater than him, he said, and with whom he can do nothing. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3;15:28)
Great and peaceful debate...Thanks for all those 4 people ... Jesus is the Lord..Amen..
It is great that Jewish Voice is giving a "voice" to the other side. The Trinity is a pagan concept that was ratified by the Sun worshipping emperor Constantine during the counsel of Nicea around 300 years after the Messiah. The Trinity goes back to Egypt thousands of years before the Messiah. Egyptologists understand this all too well. See this booklet for proof: issuu.com/yrministry/docs/identifying_father_son_revised2
I have known that for years, all doctrines of Christianity has been incorporated into Devil Lies.
At 46:00 min non trinitarians ask trinitarians where in bible did Jesus teach that God is triune in being and once again top trinitarian scholars white&brown could not come up with one scripture in the whole bible. Are these the kind of men people follow? Another question trinitarians cant answer is why the holy spirit doesnt know the day or hour of Jesus return. Can u answer this questio?
good point..and that's why people favor the son over the father..you cannot deny seeing that everywhere...christians view god the father as a mean, vengeful being but view jesus as the sweet innocent loving son who gave his life..but these 2 are the same, no? why is it that all i hear is mentioning of jesus and praying to jesus? why not IMITATE jesus 100% and pray to the father like he did? it makes absolutely no sense to me..
The Trinity and the Nicene Creed Contradicts the Bible. All that the Nicene Creed did was take a vote and this took place about 325 AD well after the was compiled . There were lots confussion with the true nature of God after the persecution of the apostles and prophets. The Trinity is post biblical. As for me being a Mormon I believe in the pre-mortal existance (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Jeramiah 1:4-5, Acts 17:28, Ephesiasties 1:3-4, Hebrews 12:9, Jude 1:6, Revolations 12:9. Now Just by stating that lets get down to the Oneness that God talks about. The GodHead is unified, but however we believe that The 3 individuals are separate individuals that are ONE GOD IN PURPOSE, BUT NOT IN SUBSTANCE like the Trinitarians belief. We do believe that Jesus was Jehovah as a premortal being and under the fathers directions Jehovah did much of the creations in the old testiment. It is plainly mentioned in the Bible what was meant by the oneness if you read John 17:21. There are many other scripture passages (John 14:28, Acts 7:55,56, John 17:11,20-23). The New Testament speaks of Christ and the Father being in two separate places (John 17:3, Romans 15:6, 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 5:21). If you read in Gennesis Genesis 1:26 it states that there were multiples involved in the creations. I do not look at the Truth as something we vote on I believe the way I do through scripture study and revolation, and if you what to believe read James 1:5 and pray about it. Romy
If Jesus is God, did the world then remain without God for three days when Jesus ("God") died?
Jesus is not God, no one can't come to the Father unless they come to Jesus first, he's the way, life and truth
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego thats a triune statement. Lol🥴. Trinity is does NOT originate with the scriptures... Jesus our savior was born (Col 1:15), Yaweh (Jah) has no beginning Nor end.... ONLY Yaweh knows the time of the End Not Jesus. How could 1 know and not the other. Jesus Died for our Sins. Yaweh resurrected him. Obviously if God Almighty (Pslm 83:18) died there would be NO ONE to resurrect 🤷🏽♂️. .... it goes one and on. Trinity Not in harmony with scriptures OBVIOUSLY
All apostles/christians during Jesus time only had the Old Testament and other writings to figure who Christ is,even book of Enoch describes Jesus in verse. Way before he came.
the question is..is jesus the begotten son of god, or just the son of god in which case we are all his children.
If jesus was god, why did he eat and pray?
The 'Jesus' of trinitarians is a 'hologram' or mere 'human incarnation' of the Real Son of God who never came down from heavan because he is an essentail part of the 'trinity'! Thus hollow are Jesus words "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life ( Greek ='psychi' 'soul) on behalf of his friends. According to the trinity, that DIDNT happen for Jesus 'Soul' is claimed to have been intact as part of the trinity in heavan! Thus a mockery of Christ's Ransom. A mockery of God's love for us. A mocker of Christ's love for us too! No wonder it is not taught in any verse in the NT. If so, where?
Very true and well said.
The Trinity is a false faith and Gospel.