Where Did the Trinity Come From?

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  • Опубліковано 22 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 2,9 тис.

  • @DJMarcO138
    @DJMarcO138 Рік тому +236

    Megan's glasses are messing with my brain today. I love them, but could never wear a frame like that without going cross-eyed, lol.

    • @TheSoteriologist
      @TheSoteriologist Рік тому +8

      And this is what her likes are intending to do, IMO, which is why I had recommended under earlier episodes to look away from the screen to avoid seizures.

    • @DJMarcO138
      @DJMarcO138 Рік тому +7

      @@TheSoteriologist I dunno about all that

    • @TheSoteriologist
      @TheSoteriologist Рік тому

      @@DJMarcO138 Bezmenov 84 _“Demoralisation“_ and _“destabilization“_

    • @charlespolk5221
      @charlespolk5221 Рік тому +11

      Yeah, the whole "half of infinity" thing is messing with my head. Sort of like the concept of the Trinity.

    • @mytwocents7481
      @mytwocents7481 Рік тому +7

      The glasses are like when you see a picture hanging crooked on a wall. You naturally want to reach out and adjust it. But you can't!!!!

  • @BrianTylerComposer
    @BrianTylerComposer Рік тому +160

    The trinity isn’t mysterious. It’s just nonsense. There is a difference.

    • @stevebeeney9022
      @stevebeeney9022 5 місяців тому +9

      Amen

    • @matthewmeyer347
      @matthewmeyer347 5 місяців тому +7

      Not really since everything we create today is also triune. Take a software program for instance. There is an interface (which is both human and machine) that interacts with the human being inputting data. This then manipulates the second part of the trinity, the database, and behind all of this, we have the program language itself. The third part of the trinity.

    • @roberthannah7983
      @roberthannah7983 4 місяці тому

      The software program acts on the database, but is not part of it. In an analogous fashion, God casts fire and brimstone upon the sinners, but they are not part of him. Jesus cried "father, why have you forsaken me?" He and the father obviously were not one at that point. @@matthewmeyer347

    • @micimaco9509
      @micimaco9509 4 місяці тому +11

      @@matthewmeyer347 yes they are 3 different things so there are 3 different gods

    • @domi8653
      @domi8653 4 місяці тому +3

      @@micimaco9509 It's literally one program

  • @mojoman2001
    @mojoman2001 4 місяці тому +15

    When you make up stories as you go along, you sometimes have to stretch to reconcile them.

  • @markdeboy8392
    @markdeboy8392 Рік тому +372

    This should be renamed "The Most Distracting Glasses Every Designed with Bart Ehrman."

    • @eliewhelms3275
      @eliewhelms3275 Рік тому +6

      Cute! No¿

    • @singingsavage3056
      @singingsavage3056 Рік тому +14

      haha you nailed it

    • @x0rn312
      @x0rn312 10 місяців тому +21

      ​@@singingsavage3056no he almost nailed it, he misspelled ever

    • @biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210
      @biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210 9 місяців тому +11

      Yeah, I had a very challenging time when I'd look at her. All I see is a large horizontal S.. I have a very hard time looking at people's faces when they have a lot of tattoos or animal piercings. I have to look away when talking to them. This was the same thing.

    • @spaceman081447
      @spaceman081447 9 місяців тому +4

      ​@@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210
      A large vertical S? The S looks horizontal to me.

  • @adamzandarski8933
    @adamzandarski8933 8 місяців тому +7

    I love the intro because it’s like” the only show where Bart Ehrman does Bart Ehrman things” but it doesn’t sound like that if you don’t think about it too much

  • @BanjaraHillbillies
    @BanjaraHillbillies Рік тому +204

    I'm a graduate of Anglican Seminary. Bart's lectures send me back in time. The difference? I stay awake during these videos!

    • @kencreten7308
      @kencreten7308 Рік тому +10

      Thanks. That made me laugh.

    • @qpiter
      @qpiter Рік тому +4

      @@kencreten7308 What there to understand? Nothing, nonsense.

    • @tinacorinn
      @tinacorinn Рік тому

      OMG. She needs new glass frames. Can't watch or even listen to this. It seems she is as peculiar as her eyeglasses. Lululooney.

    • @bayreuth79
      @bayreuth79 Рік тому +4

      Anglican? Oh dear.

    • @GlobalAtlantis101
      @GlobalAtlantis101 Рік тому

      @@bayreuth79 no division in Christ please

  • @thewb8329
    @thewb8329 Рік тому +311

    Interesting how divine doctrine was made by human consensus.

    • @kencreten7308
      @kencreten7308 Рік тому +38

      Well... uh.. you know, like ... uh, God was ... uh, what's the word, right, guiding people and stuff! heh Except for all those copying mistakes and editing over time.

    • @papie5151
      @papie5151 Рік тому +6

      Wow, very true.

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +4

      And that too with a pagan directing affairs. Compare Acts 20:30.

    • @thewb8329
      @thewb8329 Рік тому +3

      @@tongakhan230 That’s also pretty much the case with the literature of the Bible.

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +10

      @@thewb8329: The books included in the Bible were all complied with God's direction.
      That is why the Bible has been translated into over 3,000 languages.
      No other book has even reached the 100 translation mark.
      The Bible has survived despite attempts to have it destroyed.
      It must surely be of value to any TRUTH seeker.

  • @davidchess1985
    @davidchess1985 Рік тому +118

    So... basically they couldn't figure out any way to resolve the obvious inconsistencies that had piled up in the doctrine, and threw up their hands and said "it's a divine mystery"?

    • @TheKingofdans
      @TheKingofdans Рік тому +13

      😂😂 basically

    • @TullipPetal
      @TullipPetal Рік тому +3

      Same with science. Just look at quantum physics.

    • @davidchess1985
      @davidchess1985 Рік тому +21

      @@TullipPetal Ummm. No? Science works hard to find consistent explanations; it doesn't just say "it's a mystery!" and stop there.

    • @MarioCabradilla
      @MarioCabradilla 10 місяців тому

      Search Eli Soriano's doctrines. There is no mystery in there.Eli Soriano explained better.

    • @davidchess1985
      @davidchess1985 10 місяців тому +1

      @@MarioCabradilla well yeah :) He doesn't believe in the Trinity, so he has it easy; he just considers the three to be different entities (depending on exactly which of his statements you read). But the Catholics can't use that method. :)

  • @davidbackstrom8293
    @davidbackstrom8293 Рік тому +33

    The easiest way to explain Trinity is on the background of the Roman imperial cult where the dead Caesars was the fathers in the sky, the son being the word being the ruling emperor and the spirit being the genius of Rome which the emperor was supposed to be the incarnation of.

  • @teachpeace3750
    @teachpeace3750 Рік тому +85

    I love the point about Tertullian and how his writings came to be persevered because they just happened to fall in line with future consensus regarding the doctrine of the Trinity. Really makes you wonder what we lost to history from opposing viewpoints.

    • @monnieeeeyt7037
      @monnieeeeyt7037 Рік тому +11

      I like listening to him. He proves religion is nothing but men sitting on a panel discussion creating a religion for the gullible

    • @andrelegeant88
      @andrelegeant88 Рік тому +10

      @@monnieeeeyt7037 I don't really think Bart would agree that that is what religion is...

    • @josepholeary3286
      @josepholeary3286 Рік тому +5

      Yes, Tertullian is a preternatural genius. His Adversus Praxean is a short text bristling with so much of the later technical terminology but with a somewhat different sense (clarified in 1966 in the four volume study, La théologie trinitaire de Tertullian by Joseph Moingt SJ - who died a few years ago, still churning out massive books at age 104). He was also a brilliant writer, stylist, etc.

    • @termsofusepolice
      @termsofusepolice Рік тому +5

      Tertullian was not "in line" with what came to be the orthodox view on the divinity of Christ. Tertullian used the metaphor of sunlight streaming through a window to explain the relationship between the father and the son. He said that just as one will refer to a sunbeam on the wall as "the sun" while knowing that the sun itself is a separate, burning body in the sky, so too one may refer to Jesus as "God", knowing that God, Himself, is a separate and distinct Being who only shines through Christ.

    • @LeoVital
      @LeoVital 9 місяців тому +5

      That's why I find it amusing when Christians dismiss certain ideas as heresies. Heresies are just the theories that had less powerful supporters who lost the historical debate. Which is why there are so many Christian denominations, and many of them disagree completely with all the others.

  • @TheOrthodoxMoor
    @TheOrthodoxMoor Рік тому +18

    Love Megan's questions. Simple, direct, and to the point. Very well organized.

  • @zilefn9212
    @zilefn9212 Рік тому +80

    I just want to say how much I appreciate and love these podcasts. You guys are great together. (And Megan's glasses are nuts, but swimming lessons followed by day care and then teaching Sumarian is so cool, random sartorial excess doesn't matter.)

    • @samflynn3670
      @samflynn3670 Рік тому +5

      The glasses really bothered me for some reason...lol.

    • @sidstovell2177
      @sidstovell2177 Рік тому

      ​@@samflynn3670Attention - getting? I love the glasses and delighted not to see strangely-colored hair.

    • @zapkvr
      @zapkvr Рік тому +4

      @@samflynn3670 Well they are tad peculiar but whats life without a little eccentricity.

    • @stuartzalka
      @stuartzalka Рік тому +8

      The glasses keep me feeling that either I'm cross-eyed or Megan is.

  • @tresgooch
    @tresgooch Рік тому +7

    Great lesson. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Megan- that is probably the coolest looking pair of glasses I’ve ever seen.

  • @kintyre7
    @kintyre7 Рік тому +19

    Thanks, Megan and Bart for a good video. Your contributions to the debates concerning Christianity are always enlightening. We would have been much poorer - spiritually and intellectually without it.

    • @theguyver4934
      @theguyver4934 Рік тому +1

      Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
      The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
      So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
      Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )

  • @zapkvr
    @zapkvr Рік тому +22

    I really like the enthusiasm Bart brings to his talks. He is a wonderful communicator. What I like about him most is he doesnt appear to have an agenda. He is a truth seeker. Megan is a perfect host too. Im reading MacDairmaid's book again and the historical and personal background that Bart provides fills in some gaps and makes it a whole lot more interesting. Bart explains the Arian heresy in much greater detail than I have seen before. I also delight in the way he eviscerates Brown. Calling Brown out for the liar he is.

    • @donaldcarpenter5328
      @donaldcarpenter5328 Рік тому +1

      Trump brings plenty of enthusiasm to his telling of LIES also!

    • @zapkvr
      @zapkvr Рік тому +2

      @@donaldcarpenter5328 what does that even mean? I live in Australia

    • @4321grp
      @4321grp Рік тому +2

      @@donaldcarpenter5328 , If you can't bring anything useful to the conversation, please don't comment!

    • @ManishYadav-fx7eu
      @ManishYadav-fx7eu Місяць тому

      @@zapkvr it means that Ehrman's claim that the Trinity appears only once in the Bible, that too in the NT is false. It appears also in the OT

  • @joejohnson6327
    @joejohnson6327 Рік тому +232

    The fact that according to Christian doctrine Jesus prayed to himself & begged himself to spare himself before he was crucified because it was his will that he be gruesomely murdered is just mind-blowing. 🥴

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 Рік тому +70

      You can't bring that up. Their answer will always be "You don't understand". Which of course can be translated as "I don't understand, and so can't explain it to you either"

    • @joejohnson6327
      @joejohnson6327 Рік тому

      @@ji8044 Blessed are those who aren't brain-raped by the aggressively religious...

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +13

      Not Christian doctrine. But church doctrines.
      No Christian will worship their leader Jesus. That is why they are Jesus' DISCIPLES.

    • @joejohnson6327
      @joejohnson6327 Рік тому +41

      @@tongakhan230 Whether you like it or not, most people on this planet who call themselves Christians think that Jesus is God, not merely a leader, & they worship him.

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +11

      @@joejohnson6327 : Please read Jesus' words to the MANY so-called Christians before he does away with them (Matthew 7:23).
      Christians are DISCIPLES of Jesus. Not his worshipers.
      (John 13:35) By this all will know that you are MY DISCIPLES-if you have love among yourselves.”

  • @roberthawes3093
    @roberthawes3093 Рік тому +40

    There are serious logical and scriptural problems with the doctrine of the Trinity, but merely suggesting that it ought to be reconsidered is tantamount to blasphemy in most Christian circles. A couple of church councils met a long time ago and decided the matter, and, apparently, no one is allowed to question their assessment.

    • @kencreten7308
      @kencreten7308 Рік тому +6

      @@ObjectiveEthics You know... some other people said religion is about money. Now you're saying it's about control. I'm an atheist. I say religion is very complicated. If people come to something as simple as "control" or, "money." That definition is for their ease thought, perhaps, not for the sake of truth. Because the truth is far more complicated. That being said, I think no one likes to have their beliefs questions whether they firmly believe that BMW cars are the best, or belonging to a particular political group because they are - right, or believing in various Christian ideas.

    • @Critic-qn3hg
      @Critic-qn3hg Рік тому +1

      The I have a problem with, Jesus being God,,😢 the Bible says he received immortality 😮 1st Timothy 6 verse 16 if Jesus is internal,, or not created, no beginning or no end, is that a bonus receiving immortality?, doesn't make sense, that's what I would have brought up at the, meaning of bishops, Revelation 1 verse 18 I was alive I was dead and behold I live into the ages of ages,,,, so he receives it after he died immortality a New Creation,,, we will be like Jesus, I would be hanged for saying that? We will be like Jesus and receive and put on immortality 1st Corinthians 15 verses 53 must read: so one of the internal or un created divine or the 3God head's, Jesus received immortality, the word means you have to be mortal to receive immortality if I was there, I would have mentioned that and 1st Corinthians 8 verse 5 & 6 many gods, many lords/ 6 to us (true Christian's) one God the father, one Lord Jesus, too easy to understand,,, your critic ❓🤔🧐

    • @greglogan7706
      @greglogan7706 Рік тому +1

      Robert,
      Well said!!

    • @Critic-qn3hg
      @Critic-qn3hg Рік тому

      @@greglogan7706 Robert I don't know if you're talking about my comments,? Straight to the point, 👉 Jesus died for us 🙏 a lot of people don't even know what die for us? Amazing,,, did Jesus ,his soul died for us, his body or flash? Or his spirit? One of them, two of them 🤔 or all of them 🤔❓ your critic ❓🤔🧐

    • @Praise___YaH
      @Praise___YaH Рік тому

      Guys, HERE is The Savior
      YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
      From the Ancient Semitic:
      "Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
      Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
      Yad - "Behold The Hand"
      He - "Behold the Breath"
      Vav - "Behold The NAIL"

  • @marktravis5162
    @marktravis5162 Рік тому +122

    Actually reading the Bible for what it says and what’s written is why I rejected the Trinity

    • @jerkojerkic9349
      @jerkojerkic9349 Рік тому +5

      1 John 5:5-9 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
      6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
      7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
      8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
      9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

    • @marktravis5162
      @marktravis5162 Рік тому

      @@jerkojerkic9349 Which proves my point

    • @tiedeman39
      @tiedeman39 Рік тому +1

      ​@@jerkojerkic9349You are aware 1 John 5:7 is a later addition, right? It isn't in any of the oldest manuscripts that we have.

    • @dazzadizzy5308
      @dazzadizzy5308 Рік тому

      @@jerkojerkic9349 Who was filling the role as "the word" because that was Jesus previously.?

    • @jerkojerkic9349
      @jerkojerkic9349 Рік тому +4

      @@dazzadizzy5308 The Word of God is Jesus Christ.

  • @wg6338
    @wg6338 4 місяці тому +11

    " My Father is greater than I "

    • @jayseth
      @jayseth 3 місяці тому

      "I and the Father are one"

    • @wg6338
      @wg6338 3 місяці тому

      @@jayseth Have a look at John 20:17

    • @smeatonlighthouse4384
      @smeatonlighthouse4384 2 місяці тому

      Read Philippians ch. 2 in the New Testament and see why the Lord Jesus, though God and co equal with God, could still say, My Father is greater than I.

    • @liberatedspirit3554
      @liberatedspirit3554 Місяць тому +2

      ​@@jayseth Jesus also says we and him are 1 doesn't make us God. Neither does it make him GOD.
      We are to be one with Jesus as he is one with the Father... One in purpose, one in Righteousness

  • @papaarnie
    @papaarnie Рік тому +30

    Bart and Megan explain the "mysteries" about Christianity in a coherent and logical fashion. As they turn out, religion is man-made and subject to the whims and guiles of their perpetrators who are masters in the art of mass psychology. Really, the paradigm is applicable to politics, economics, and all matters that concern humanity. Thank you, Bart and Megan, for such enlightening videos!

    • @bubbag8895
      @bubbag8895 Рік тому

      Idk dude.. YHWH gave Moses the Law. Unless you don't believe Moses or YHWH. Don't piss of YHWH

    • @miketaylor9517
      @miketaylor9517 10 місяців тому

      @@bubbag8895Ummm the word of god is unutterable dude… paradox

    • @Thomas20249
      @Thomas20249 10 місяців тому

      Christianity is man made

    • @Thomas20249
      @Thomas20249 10 місяців тому

      @@bubbag8895 The name YAHWEH is not mentioned in the New Testament at all

    • @samkb6374
      @samkb6374 4 місяці тому +1

      You go from Christianity to every religion which is made up by humans. Generalization is a weakness of your claim.

  • @eurech
    @eurech Рік тому +81

    I wrote an essay about the Trinity when I was in high school, I used Bart as one of my main sources and I ended up getting an A. The course was called 'Religion - Specialization'. Thanks Bart!

    • @harharharharharharharharha240
      @harharharharharharharharha240 Рік тому +9

      In high school? Never knew people took theology in high school, very cool though! Congrats on the A!

    • @eurech
      @eurech Рік тому

      In Sweden we have 'specialization' courses in virtually all subjects, including religion. In those courses its all about producing a scientific research on chosen topics.@@harharharharharharharharha240

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +2

      Doesn't sound factual. Sorry! What can anyone write about the Trinity.
      It had to be a question. 'Is the Trinity scriptural or not'.

    • @eurech
      @eurech Рік тому +6

      @@tongakhan230 You're wrong, though.

    • @Cashew10
      @Cashew10 Рік тому +6

      *True Jesus is in Islam*
      * *Jews/Judaism rejects Jesus* as a prophet/God's messenger.
      * *Christians believe that* Jesus was God incarnate and died as a sacrifice to redeem humans' sin.
      * *Islam confirms who Jesus really was.* Jesus/Isa was sent by God to Israelites to teach monotheism & enforce God's law. (Quran 61:6, 4: 157-158, 5:72, 5:116-118, 19:21,32, , etc)
      In the Gospel, *Jesus himself said he came/was sent only to Israelites.* He told Jews to worship God only and to teach Torah (of course to practice its law as well). (John 17:3, Matthew 5: 17-19, 10:6, 15:24, etc).
      Some important laws in the Torah & OT:
      * *God in Torah/OT is not human,* not born from a woman's womb, invisible, and will never die. (Genesis, Hosea, etc).
      * *God in the Torah/OT strongly prohibits human sacrifice,* since it was pagan and witch practice (Leviticus, Jeremiah, etc).
      The true Jesus is in Islam. So, *find out more about true Islam* from credible sources.

  • @JakobVirgil
    @JakobVirgil Рік тому +7

    The glasses are wild this time. I think I like them but they are challenging me.
    Keep up the good work

  • @tonyharvell739
    @tonyharvell739 Рік тому +15

    Great episode. I could never believe in the Trinity based on logic which troubled me when I was a believer. Dr. Ehrman actually reinforced my lack of belief. Megan's Eyewear is "the bomb" (good).

  • @haze1123
    @haze1123 Рік тому +4

    Great episode!
    I always love seeing Megan's different looks, but those glasses are making me dizzy! 😸

  • @dylanjames8792
    @dylanjames8792 Рік тому +3

    Thanks so much for this content Megan and Bart. I'm hooked!!

  • @mmh1922
    @mmh1922 Рік тому +10

    Truly enjoyable conversation, thank you.

  • @andybeans5790
    @andybeans5790 Рік тому +179

    I think the Trinity is a prime example of design-by-committee 😉

    • @grneal26
      @grneal26 Рік тому +26

      indeed. and a man made concept. Tertullian actually didn't believe in the Trinity the same way it is described at the Nicene creed.

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому +10

      Not in the way Bart describes it. The Trinity is not an amalgamation or mish-mash of opposing or just different views. The committees merely chose the Trinity notion over competing views; they didn’t create it.

    • @gabitamiravideos
      @gabitamiravideos Рік тому +2

      😂

    • @ob2249
      @ob2249 Рік тому

      @@jeffryphillipsburns
      they "mereIy ch0se" it 0ver reaIity and truth
      b0II0x is b0II0x

    • @ianalan4367
      @ianalan4367 Рік тому +5

      The concept of the Trinity existed long before the councils canonized it into official doctrine.

  • @KamranSher
    @KamranSher Рік тому +34

    Every time I see Dr. Bart’s new video, it reminds me of a new toy my father would bring me when I was little.

  • @heeberman
    @heeberman 4 дні тому

    Megan, you are an outstanding host. Keep it coming!

  • @karenbehymer3634
    @karenbehymer3634 Рік тому +2

    Dope glasses!!! Love your style!!!

  • @Kevinism
    @Kevinism Рік тому +12

    Somehow, I had always compared the trinity to a user interface for a video game; the father in the divine realm is the user, the son was the modeled avatar/player character who interacts with the inhabitants of the world, the holy spirit was the in-game console that the user can use to debug the game or break the physics engine lmao
    Not saying that my system of comparison was better or worse than others, but that's how I made sense of it as a kid

    • @mojoman2001
      @mojoman2001 Рік тому +3

      Could be more than a strange metaphor... if we are indeed living in a simulation. 😮

    • @billyhw5492
      @billyhw5492 Рік тому +6

      Thanks, there was a shortage of bad Trinity analogies out there.

    • @TheKingofdans
      @TheKingofdans Рік тому

      😂 but how are those three things equal? And how do they have the same use/power/abilities?
      The three you've gave are completely different with different abilities which goes agaisnt the trinity that teaches that all the persons in the godhead are EQUAL IN ABILITY. (Meaning, what one can do, the other can too)

    • @nonyobussiness3440
      @nonyobussiness3440 8 місяців тому

      It is true that God could make a rock so big he could not lift it, but he could lift it. Trinity doesn’t need to be logical it’s just how god reveiled himself to us

    • @tydy5266
      @tydy5266 7 місяців тому

      Equal in ability? It's the same being, but different functions ​@@TheKingofdans

  • @phdw9834
    @phdw9834 Рік тому +36

    How can one with a logical mind accept the trinity as true? Honestly I will never be able to fathom that.

    • @oliverbrownlow5615
      @oliverbrownlow5615 Рік тому +4

      One accepts it not with a logical mind, but by faith.

    • @phdw9834
      @phdw9834 Рік тому +10

      @@oliverbrownlow5615 the same can be said to support any fallacy. You have to put the bar somewhere

    • @veseyvonveitinghof9593
      @veseyvonveitinghof9593 Рік тому +1

      @@oliverbrownlow5615 ...faith in what ?? Because some pope said so ?? No way, the Bible clearly shows that the trinity is nonsense. I put my faith in the written word not what some confused people voted on.Truth is not up to a vote, either it is or is'nt...

    • @marymegrant1130
      @marymegrant1130 Рік тому +3

      The same could be said for quantum physics. Although quantum physics has the benefit of empirical evidence.

    • @marymegrant1130
      @marymegrant1130 Рік тому

      Consider the particle/wave duality of light

  • @SiqueScarface
    @SiqueScarface Рік тому +18

    To the question of different sources for the same author, and scholars debating them: I was in a church choir for some time, and beside many other pieces, we have sung Johann Sebastian Bach's St Matthew Passion and St John Passion. Johann Sebastian Bach wrote his music after the printing press was invented. And still, every time we got to the music sheets, our cantor gave us some small corrections to the music, because even the manuscripts of Johann Sebastian Bach of his own music differ, and there are debates if something is actually a speck of dirt on the manuscript or a correction, and if it's by his own hands or someone else's. Again and again, other copies of his works are found, and they carry some corrections, but not others, and there is a huge body of scholarly work tracking down the time line of Johann Sebastian Bach's own corrections to his own music.

  • @SuperChicken666
    @SuperChicken666 Рік тому +1

    Those glasses are amazing! And Megan's glasses are nice too.😊❤❤

  • @tomcarslaw2117
    @tomcarslaw2117 Рік тому

    Great gardening tip. Always plant things in threes or another ODD grouping!

  • @BibleAlivePresentations
    @BibleAlivePresentations Рік тому +18

    A pint with friends is preferred.
    Thank you for these wonderful and informative shows! Megan, thank you for assembling these with Bart and for sharing about your translating! Also: those glasses are awesome.

  • @GabrielEddy
    @GabrielEddy Рік тому +51

    Simply put, this doctrine required over three centuries to become fully developed, not becoming orthodox until the Council of Constantinople in 360 CE when the ομοουσιον (same essence) position was officially ratified, and the competing ετεροουσιον (different essence) was officially anathematized.

    • @larrythrasher9713
      @larrythrasher9713 Рік тому +10

      381 AD.

    • @toreyhorton1789
      @toreyhorton1789 Рік тому +14

      The satanic lie took some time to develop.

    • @larrythrasher9713
      @larrythrasher9713 Рік тому +8

      @@toreyhorton1789 Yes. It was plagiarized from Greek philosophers

    • @ob2249
      @ob2249 Рік тому

      gabrieI eddy
      yes indeed, its an iIIustrati0n 0f h0w they made it up as they went aI0ng and created grand reIigi0us c0unciIs and grand new w0rds t0 f0rmaIise and Iegitimize their idi0cy
      n0 number 0f reIigi0us c0unciIs 0r ratificati0ns 0f 0rth0d0xy wiII make the st0ry m0re credibIe
      especiaIIy when y0u read the bibIe
      it has zer0 credibiIity

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +5

      Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever.
      No surprise that the apostate church had the name Roman in it.

  • @CBlake-xy5cm
    @CBlake-xy5cm Рік тому +11

    I have a question for Dr Ehrman. A common practice among Christians is to pray asking God for very specific interventions that are personally meaningful here on Earth, such as protection for loved ones, or for certain individuals to win elections, or to obtain certain financial/material goals, etc. I'm not sure this practice is entirely biblical in origin? I'm guessing there may be other practices and beliefs among Christians that are commonly thought to be from the Bible, but arguably are not? Perhaps this would make for an interesting subject of your podcast? Thanks for considering this idea. 🙂

    • @joejohnson6327
      @joejohnson6327 Рік тому +3

      Characters from the Bible prayed for all kinds of very specific crap all the time. Duh.

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому +6

      It is a strange practice if you believe in an omniscient and Omni-benevolent God. That sort of God wouldn’t need you to petition him. He would already know and care and would have have already done He thought best, which would necessarily HAVE been best. Of course there was a very long tradition of attempting to appease the gods and offering sacrifices for the gods. This long tradition long predates Christianity. Christianity mindlessly continues the tradition without worrying about the inevitable contradictions.

    • @aaronparry2636
      @aaronparry2636 Рік тому +3

      ​@jeffryphillipsburns the most common explanation I've heard is that God knows what you want, but also wants you to ask for it as a means of maintaining a relationship. Kind of like parents with toddlers who tell them to ask for what they want, despite it sometimes being obvious to the parents (except that parents do this to teach socially expected bevahiour instead of build relationship)

    • @mojoman2001
      @mojoman2001 Рік тому +4

      Praying makes a lot of people feel better about being out of control. When there is absolutely nothing which you can do to affect an outcome, you can still occupy yourself with wasting your breath directing wishes to imaginary friends.

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +1

      Jesus gave his disciples apriority listing on what to pray for. Please read Matthew 6:9-13.
      Check it out.
      BTW these worldly scholars cannot explain what the Bible teaches. God veils the truth from such ones. cf Matthew 11:25,26.

  • @MsSpiffz
    @MsSpiffz Рік тому +4

    I always thought it was a philosophical trick: 'we worship only one God', but 'we worship God AND Jesus' so they needed a way out. And invented the Trinity. I've often thought that the beginning of worshipping Jesus would be when the Jewish Christians split off, since that would be unacceptable to people who say the Sh'ma every day.

  • @MasterSpade
    @MasterSpade Рік тому +95

    "Where did the Trinity come from?" = From the Imagination of a Human.

    • @canadiancontrarian3668
      @canadiancontrarian3668 9 місяців тому +4

      An imagination inspired and sponsored by the adversary?
      I certainly think so.

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian.

    • @canadiancontrarian3668
      @canadiancontrarian3668 9 місяців тому

      Where in what you expressed is there a text of scripture?
      Sounds like you hold to your own personal phantasm.@@jamesmanm3623

    • @MasterSpade
      @MasterSpade 9 місяців тому +1

      @@jamesmanm3623 -- My god didn't need a weak A## "trinitarian", so =
      My god >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your trini god
      Praise be the Magic Toe Nail.
      I will Pray for you.

    • @rickreed464
      @rickreed464 7 місяців тому +1

      From humans that think they know more than GOD.YAHWEH SAYS NOT TO BE DECEIVED

  • @susiepittman601
    @susiepittman601 Рік тому +12

    Thank you for telling us the truth.

    • @Bullcutter
      @Bullcutter Рік тому +3

      What you see here is an opinion of one skeptic Bible scholar. It actually stands in a minority amongst Bible scholars! So it's not the truth but an opinion!

    • @_sol.invictus__
      @_sol.invictus__ Рік тому

      ​@@Bullcutter*skeptic

    • @_sol.invictus__
      @_sol.invictus__ Рік тому +9

      ​​@@Bullcuttermost bible scholars are christians who have to sign a statement of faith at their institutions. So I'll take a skeptic's opinion any day over that.

    • @alwilliams5177
      @alwilliams5177 Рік тому

      ​@@Bullcutteractually Dr Erhman's opinions normally represent the majority of Bible "scholars." Most people who've been to mainline seminaries like to feed their kids too much to reveal the common understanding they were taught and loose their job. Real Bible scholarship "don't preach." Preventing the loss of faith due to an understanding of the real text is a real problem for conservatives.

    • @Bullcutter
      @Bullcutter Рік тому

      If that were so, no publisher worth their salt will publish them! But we have numerous Bible scholars with their work published by top universities! Dr. Ehrmans studied under the late Professor Bruce Metzger, a world-renowned Bible scholar of Greek New Testament. He wouldn't agree with Dr. Ehrman's theology! Nor will Dr Don Carson, another eminent Bible scholar. Dr. Ehrman stands alone in refutation of major tenants of Christianity!

  • @AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen
    @AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen Рік тому +8

    👏🙂
    Very interesting.
    Great video.

  • @KaiHenningsen
    @KaiHenningsen Рік тому +4

    Hmm, as for scribal text changes, I remember some pointed remarks about a German translation of an English sf story - I think an A. E. van Voigt one - where, for whatever reason, the translator added an excessively brutal extra scene that doesn't really fit with the rest of the text. I think I have that book somewhere, but I probably cannot find it with reasonable effort. Even figuring that out must have an interesting story behind it.

  • @jeffkitterman7191
    @jeffkitterman7191 24 дні тому +2

    68 years of Christian education and only now do I have the basic 411 in this topic. Thanks Bart.

  • @andrewmays3988
    @andrewmays3988 Рік тому +3

    Bart, I love your inquiring mind and thank you for attempting to honestly answer some of the most troubling questions 'believers' and 'nonbelievers' continuously ask. Perhaps it would be helpful for your audiences if you explored and commented on the psychology of the belief phenomenon itself AND the various philosophies of the numerous, different religions being professed TODAY. I realize this will require a countless number of interviews, but I am fascinated by the forever changing eyewear and hair color choices by that brilliant and beautiful young lady challenging you with thought-provoking questions.😇

    • @danielmeadows5223
      @danielmeadows5223 Рік тому +1

      Psychology and Western Religion has about 100 pages on the trinity. I came to this podcast out of an interest in the psychology of religion.

  • @jujunorman4695
    @jujunorman4695 Рік тому +5

    And John Hamer (centreplace) is streaming a lecture on trinity in a few hours. Good Times.

  • @nmikloiche
    @nmikloiche Рік тому +9

    Some childish questions I’ve always had - (1) Do all members of the Trinity know about each other. (2). Do they talk to each other? Probably not since this would be more like taking to one’s self. (3) Do they always agree? I just have always found the Trinity to be confusing.

    • @origenjerome8031
      @origenjerome8031 Рік тому

      The Trinity is really confusing because it is a Miracle. How could Jesus be born from a Virgin mother? Where did half of his chromosomes come from? How could Jesus rise from the dead, when reverse entropy is against the laws of Thermodynamics? How could you cram all pairs of all animals in an Ark and survive the Great Flood? How could Moses possibly part the Red Sea using just his walking stick?
      All miracles are confusing. You cannot accept and believe 1 miracle, and reject the other miracles.

    • @wotchermystic2335
      @wotchermystic2335 Рік тому +2

      I think of it as Vishnu (Father), Krishna (“Son” who is actually the earthly avatar of the Father) , and Shakti (Spirit, which is the energetic, more feminine form of the Father). In the Bible, Jesus talks to/prays to God a lot. I don’t know how Christians reconcile that, if they eWorld accept that it would need to be reconciled.

    • @origenjerome8031
      @origenjerome8031 Рік тому +1

      @wotchermystic2335
      You cannot attempt to reconcile how Jesus prays to God a lot, and yet Jesus and God are one and the same.
      Otherwise, you would also need to reconcile how Noah was able to cram a pair of all animals on Earth in his Ark, or why God had to put the Forbidden Tree near Adam & Eve. God could have built an impenetrable fence around it.

    • @lufhopespeacefully2037
      @lufhopespeacefully2037 Рік тому +1

      hi,do u read quran,peace

    • @billyhw5492
      @billyhw5492 Рік тому

      Yes, the three members of the Trinity know about each other, with perfect knowledge. They commune with one another, which is their life in eternity. They share the one divine intellect and will, therefore they always agree.

  • @jennifferjude3156
    @jennifferjude3156 Рік тому +17

    You are so cool ! I love all of your eye glasses and all the colors you implement, you are a joy! Professor I love your host and I love this program and I’m so grateful.

  • @Zozo-d7p
    @Zozo-d7p Рік тому +1

    Besides this being the coolest UA-cam channel, it's also the home of the coolest eyeglass frames.

  • @profetik777
    @profetik777 Рік тому

    Super bummed I missed the conference! I would have totally jumped on that

  • @Chandransingham
    @Chandransingham Рік тому +5

    I liked this. Excellent recap. There is a two-dimensional diagram for the Trinity used in England illustrating Bishop Alexander's assertions. Good to hear Bart is in Wimbledon for dinner with bloggers.

  • @gestapoid
    @gestapoid Рік тому +6

    I question whether most Christians truly believe in the orthodox trinity. I dont see a way to make a cogent argument that Jesus was anything but subordinate ro God. Then there is the holy spirit which is something else altogether. When ive talked to people about the trinity casually, pretty much everyone seems to actually think more in terms of tritheism rather than the one god-three parts.
    Seems most likely that the trinity was invented ro be able to claim Christianity is monotheist in order to preserve a connection with Judaism for legitimacy purposes.

    • @jimauch94
      @jimauch94 2 місяці тому

      Why couldn't God have a son? The son would have the characteristics of the father. Difficult to tell the difference between the Holy Spirit, and Grace. seem like their function is the same.

  • @termsofusepolice
    @termsofusepolice Рік тому +3

    It's interesting to note that while evangelical Christians will immediately count as unalterably "saved" from hell any person who simply recites their Sinner's Prayer, those same evangelical Christians will condemn to hell any professing Christian who does not recognize the doctrine of the Triune God. A problematic position to say the least.

  • @blyman4372
    @blyman4372 Рік тому +2

    Thank you! Please continue with your work.

  • @carlloeber
    @carlloeber Рік тому +1

    I really like Dr Bart.. it is so fun listening to you guys..

  • @robertfrench7017
    @robertfrench7017 Рік тому +12

    Another excellent podcast. I would be interested in a podcast on when and how the Pope became infallible.

    • @kidslovesatan34
      @kidslovesatan34 Рік тому +3

      He's only considered infallible when issuing Papal Bulls.

    • @mojoman2001
      @mojoman2001 Рік тому +1

      It has been ___[Blank]___ days since last papal error. 😂😂😂

    • @mojoman2001
      @mojoman2001 Рік тому +1

      ​@@kidslovesatan34-- and yet the pope won't spare the bulls from Spanish bullfighting. 🤔

  • @Thoughtpologetics
    @Thoughtpologetics Рік тому +6

    I would argue Jesus didn’t equate the Holy Spirit with himself… he himself said when he goes to heaven he will send the holy spirt, there is clear separation

    • @kencreten7308
      @kencreten7308 Рік тому +1

      I'm not a believer, but... Casper the Ghost comes to my mind.

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому

      @@kencreten7308 I used to buy Casper comic books as a child, but I don’t see the connection. Did Casper divide into sub-entities, and I’m just forgetting?

    • @brucecoleman1509
      @brucecoleman1509 Рік тому

      I've always thought of the Holy Spirit as our conscious to do good things not bad.When we fail to do good we feel bad and then correct it. ❤

    • @Thoughtpologetics
      @Thoughtpologetics Рік тому +1

      @@brucecoleman1509 I love that sentiment, I only wish it was that easy… but you get into spirit of God vs Holy Spirit talk, did the Holy Spirit even exist before Jesus said he would send it, and so on… but that is not a bad thought

    • @brucecoleman1509
      @brucecoleman1509 Рік тому

      @Thoughtpologetics It's a mystery ain't it.Peace Brother

  • @FLDavis
    @FLDavis 9 місяців тому +4

    John !: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    • @robertcarpenter7486
      @robertcarpenter7486 4 місяці тому

      @@FLDavis there is no beginning nor end there is only the continuous moment.

    • @Bobbychildree
      @Bobbychildree 4 місяці тому

      @@FLDavis Truth hurts people like Bart and his followers.

    • @liberatedspirit3554
      @liberatedspirit3554 Місяць тому

      It says the word, God's spoken word obviously, as it says in Proverbs, the wisdom of his word personified as a female, was in the beginning with God
      No where does the word "Jesus" appear in any of those verses. Not does the "word" mean a person any more then a book means a person
      Nor is their a scripture u can point to where it shows anyone Jesus was doing things with God in heaven before his birth
      You trinitarians are adding ur doctrine to the word it is not written here
      When Jesus was born then God's word and his wisdom was manifested to us.
      "Jesus became wisdom onto us" book of Hebrews
      People just care more to cling to their beliefs instead of pursue truth
      Always has and always will be this way

    • @FLDavis
      @FLDavis Місяць тому +1

      @@liberatedspirit3554
      11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
      12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
      13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    • @FLDavis
      @FLDavis 10 днів тому

      @@liberatedspirit3554
      WORD: Strongs #s
      H1697 ___ used @ Jer. 1:1 & Jer. 1:2 KJV+
      דָּבָר
      dâbâr
      daw-bawr'
      From H1696; a word; by implication a matter (as spoken of) of thing; adverbially a cause: - act, advice, affair, answer, X any such (thing), + because of, book, business, care, case, cause, certain rate, + chronicles, commandment, X commune (-ication), + concern [-ing], + confer, counsel, + dearth, decree, deed, X disease, due, duty, effect, + eloquent, errand, [evil favoured-] ness, + glory, + harm, hurt, + iniquity, + judgment, language, + lying, manner, matter, message, [no] thing, oracle, X ought, X parts, + pertaining, + please, portion, + power, promise, provision, purpose, question, rate, reason, report, request, X (as hast) said, sake, saying, sentence, + sign, + so, some [uncleanness], somewhat to say, + song, speech, X spoken, talk, task, + that, X there done, thing (concerning), thought, + thus, tidings, what [-soever], + wherewith, which, word, work.
      Total KJV occurrences: 1438
      KJV
      Jer 1:1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:
      Jer 1:2 To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
      Jer 1:1 The words H1697 of JeremiahH3414 the sonH1121 of Hilkiah,H2518 ofH4480 the priestsH3548 thatH834 were in AnathothH6068 in the landH776 of Benjamin:H1144
      Jer 1:2 To whomH834 the word H1697 of the LORD H3068 cameH1961 in the daysH3117 of JosiahH2977 the sonH1121 of AmonH526 kingH4428 of Judah,H3063 in the thirteenthH7969 H6240 yearH8141 of his reign.H4427
      Brenton’s Eng Sept.
      Jer 1:1 The word of God which came to Jeremias the son of Chelcias, of the priests, who dwelt in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:
      Jer 1:2 accordingly as the word of God came to him in the days of Josias son of Amos king of Juda, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
      Greek OT Sept.
      Jer 1:1 τοG3588 T-NSN ρημαG4487 N-NSN τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM οG3739 R-NSN εγενετοG1096 V-AMI-3S επιG1909 PREP ιερεμιανG2408 N-ASM τονG3588 T-ASM τουG3588 R-GSM χελκιουN-GSM εκG1537 PREP τωνG3588 T-GPM ιερεωνG2409 N-GPM οςG3739 R-NSM κατωκειV-IAI-3S ενG1722 PREP αναθωθN-PRI ενG1722 PREP γηG1065 N-DSF βενιαμινG958 N-PRI
      Jer 1:2 οςG3739 R-NSM εγενηθηG1096 V-API-3S λογοςG3056 N-NSM τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM προςG4314 PREP αυτονG846 D-ASM ενG1722 PREP ταιςG3588 T-DPF ημεραιςG2250 N-DPF ιωσιαN-PRI υιουG5207 N-GSM αμωςG301 N-PRI βασιλεωςG935 N-GSM ιουδαG2448 N-PRI ετουςG2094 N-GSN τρισκαιδεκατουA-GSN ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF βασιλειαG932 N-DSF αυτουG846 D-GSM
      G4487 ῥῆμα rhēma
      hray'-mah From G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specifically); by implication a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever: - + evil, + nothing, saying, word. Total KJV occurrences: 70
      G3056 λόγος logos
      log'-os From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
      Total KJV occurrences: 330

  • @piaraskelly1038
    @piaraskelly1038 4 місяці тому

    Thanks for a very interesting and informative conversation

  • @markantrobus8782
    @markantrobus8782 Рік тому +1

    Megan's frames are distracting. We feel swept over by the spectacles' arabesque.

  • @stevebeeney9022
    @stevebeeney9022 4 місяці тому +4

    It took about three hundred years to come up with a religion the Emperor could accept.

  • @fdshands2663
    @fdshands2663 Рік тому +11

    "Her flight back to New York booked, Jennifer had seven days to pull the final script together and send it off. But they were still three scripts, at least: The Screenwriter, The Architect, and The Gate. Was it a trilogy? A triptych? A Trinity? A Trimurti? Were they each manifestations of the same thing?" - from 'Frame 39', a novel, by Rick Shands

  • @yclept9
    @yclept9 Рік тому +62

    It made no sense in Sunday School and it makes no sense now.

    • @marsonofjo344
      @marsonofjo344 3 місяці тому

      They rarely support their assertions with Scripture. The have pre-conceived interpretation of Scripture common to theologians.
      They don't consider:
      Who said what?
      Deuteronomy 18:18
      18”I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.”
      John 12:49
      49”For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and how I should speak.”

  • @GeeTrieste
    @GeeTrieste Рік тому +1

    4:56
    This sounds a lot like a Zen concept.
    If you think you know it, then you don't know it.

  • @oldi184
    @oldi184 3 місяці тому

    Thank you, but those glasses are super distracting. Who designed them???

  • @todddavis8355
    @todddavis8355 Рік тому +4

    If we are made in the image of God, and God is three person's, where are your other two persons?

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). all man want/need is wisdom ..man study chemistry, physics, biology,...,history, political science, philosophy, theology, religions to gain wisdom.
      wisdom is "knowing" "what" "to do".
      God is WISDOM itself.
      God/WISDOM:God the Father is the "whatness"/what is that exsts; God the Son is "knowing" of knowledge/truth/revelation; and God the Holy Spirit is the "doing"/the good.

    • @robertcarpenter7486
      @robertcarpenter7486 4 місяці тому

      @@todddavis8355 the egg theory

    • @Bobbychildree
      @Bobbychildree 4 місяці тому

      @@todddavis8355 Body, soul, spirit - omnes Gallia in tres partes divisa est.

  • @ttown55
    @ttown55 Рік тому +4

    MEGAN, I just noticed your glasses. I kept looking at them and was thinking something looks different. Finally, I realized the design. They are absolutely the coolest looking glasses I’ve ever seen! What a beautiful design. I’m a male, but would like to see what designs are offered to males. Who designed them or what company sells this designers glasses? Very cool looking.

    • @johnnastrom9400
      @johnnastrom9400 7 місяців тому

      Could you guys please stop simping for her? We come here to listen to Bart, not the attention seeking woman.

  • @HPLeft
    @HPLeft Рік тому +4

    Good to see a symbol from Taoism incorporated into this podcast through Megan's Yin-Yang glasses...

    • @CL_Easterling
      @CL_Easterling 9 місяців тому

      Yin-yang is 1 circle, not 2, that's more like infinity...

  • @FGuilt
    @FGuilt Рік тому +2

    The Trinity is how one takes a contradiction in an inerrant book and forces that contradiction to not be a contradiction. That's why it takes so many words to make it work. The Trinity is a contradiction made doctrine. "We already assume as fact the book is inerrant." From that came so much industry.

  • @banditbaker1675
    @banditbaker1675 Рік тому +2

    Thank you for an interesting and thought-provoking discourse on the Trinity.
    When dealing with the Trinity a close friend would comment that "he had no problem with the Trinity, he just didn't understand it"
    I am a little disappointed that Bart omits mentioning the influence that Neo-Platonic philosophy had on early Christian theologians (indeed the influence that it had on all of the Abrahamic religions.
    I would go as far as to suggest that until you study the work of Plotinus you will never come close to understanding the concept of the Trinity.

  • @captainbc52
    @captainbc52 Рік тому +10

    So much history condensed in the series.... I love it!
    My favorite part is when I hear tidbits about when stuff was added or taken away from the Bible...like that verse in 1st John.
    I wish Bart would do a short series like.... Super condensed... On important passages in the Bible that were added or deleted on purpose to make a theological point.... And the time period it is historically believed to be added.
    The one that blew my mind was a lot of the original books of Luke didn't have the first portion that included jesus's infancy narrative...
    That and the story of the adulterous woman in John, that was added much later.

    • @ianwassink7664
      @ianwassink7664 Рік тому +2

      That would be a good talk.

    • @oscarbenigsen4538
      @oscarbenigsen4538 Рік тому

      I don't think anything was taken away in the case of Luke's gospel regarding Jesus's infancy. Luke states his purpose at the beginning of his text, which was to gather and then order eyewitness accounts of Christ. He wrote the narrative to Theophilus, this, to assure him that what he had learned of Christ was true.
      _"Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, _*_just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also,_*_ having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed."_
      The point here is that Luke's motive was not to account for everything that occurred in Christ's life, but only what he himself could corroborate from eyewitnesses. Matthew's gospel is widely considered to have come at least a decade prior to Luke's. And yet it includes the narrative of The Holy Family's journey to Egypt, which is missing in Luke's gospel. So why would anyone use Luke's account to suggest that the Egypt journey never occurred? Luke seemed focused upon eyewitness accounts. So it could be that he did not record the Egyptian journey because he could not find anyone who was yet alive and who had witnessed such a remote and undoubtedly private experience.
      As for 1 John 5:7-8, the verses were not inserted into "The Bible." They were inserted only in _The Textus Receptus,_ which was compiled by Erasmus, and later used by translations such as the KJV. But it was Erasmus himself who told us that the verses should be held in suspicion. We have known about them from their beginning. However, the fact that they were added does not mean that the doctrine of The Trinity is unbiblical or was made up out of whole cloth. As Erhman says here, the rest of the Bible declares that God is One, that Jesus is God, that The Holy Spirit is God, and that The Father is God. And in Matthew 3:16-17 the Bible shows all three of these Persons being present and active simultaneously:
      _"As soon as Jesus (Person #2) was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (Person #3) descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven (Person #1) said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'”_
      There was only one solution to this, and Modalism was not it. Christians had accepted that The Father, the Son, and the Spirit were each God even before Nicea. But they had no formal doctrine to harmonize the belief. The ecumenical meetings merely formalized what the church generally believed. That is why there was no contest between the various points of view in these meetings. Trinitarianism had always existed between the texts. They simply formalized it, chiefly because heretics were trying to introduce doctrines that were contrary to the texts.

  • @bayreuth79
    @bayreuth79 Рік тому +3

    Bart neglected to mention that modalism involves the notion that God only appears to us in 3 different modes. Augustine in his De Trinitate also believed that God is one in three modes- but he thought that those modes were ad intra. The immanent trinity is the economic trinity. The son is the image of the father and the spirit is the love of that self-reflected image. One God the father in three modalities.

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). all man want/need is wisdom ..man study chemistry, physics, biology,...,history, political science, philosophy, theology, religions to gain wisdom.
      wisdom is "knowing" "what" "to do".
      God is WISDOM itself.
      God/WISDOM:God the Father is the "whatness"/what is that exsts; God the Son is "knowing" of knowledge/truth/revelation; and God the Holy Spirit is the "doing"/the good.

    • @rhythmvij7525
      @rhythmvij7525 8 місяців тому

      @@jamesmanm3623 i love going into youtube comments and seeing idiots talk as if they are the best philosopher to ever walk this earth lmao

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 8 місяців тому

      @@rhythmvij7525 please , be charitable to educate someone like myself, for according to Socrates "piety is to educate one's fellow citizens"

  • @TheSoteriologist
    @TheSoteriologist Рік тому +7

    Starts 3:07.

  • @RoyBatham
    @RoyBatham Рік тому +2

    Megan. Who designed those awful specs ?

  • @tonyjoyce7508
    @tonyjoyce7508 Рік тому

    Where did you get those specs Megan. They are really cool

    • @jeffmacdonald9863
      @jeffmacdonald9863 Рік тому +1

      This particular pair is a bit much for me. I really do wonder though how she gets a new pair nearly every week. What's her glasses budget like?

  • @carolynsilvers9999
    @carolynsilvers9999 4 місяці тому +2

    I was raised in this, always had doubts. I can't make myself believe in the trinity.

    • @jimjuri6490
      @jimjuri6490 4 місяці тому

      Ask any JW. Many of them too were brought up to believe the Trinity. Why did they change? John 8:32 has the answer.

    • @menmustchangebeforekingdoms
      @menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 місяці тому

      @carolynsilvers9999 - Of course you can't "make yourself believe in the Trinity", God must REVEAL IT TO YOU BY HIS SPIRIT, JUST LIKE HE REVEALS "Salvation" & EVERYTHING ELSE that pertains to God.

    • @menmustchangebeforekingdoms
      @menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 місяці тому

      @@jimjuri6490 Another "Cherry Picked" scripture while you OMIT verse 31 which is the KEY and says, ..."If you CONTINUE IN MY WORD..", something you OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT DONE, which is why you DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH, (v.32), to come up with so many LIES that are not even in the WORD, like Jesus is the Arc Ange Michael !! Wake Up !!

    • @jimjuri6490
      @jimjuri6490 4 місяці тому

      @@menmustchangebeforekingdoms : If Jesus is not an angel why is he compared to angels? Can God be compared to angels?

    • @menmustchangebeforekingdoms
      @menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 місяці тому

      @@jimjuri6490 Jesus is NOT an Angel, you know it, your JW 'deceivers" know it, I know it, & God knows it, because it is NO WHERE TO BE FOUND IN THE WORD.

  • @jeromefanning1157
    @jeromefanning1157 11 місяців тому +7

    Jesus said he that sent me is greater than I

    • @douglasboyd8475
      @douglasboyd8475 8 місяців тому

      Jesus is talking about his flesh, his human nature.
      Colossians 1:15 says specifically Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

    • @KhabibTime-cb4ym
      @KhabibTime-cb4ym 7 місяців тому +1

      ​@@douglasboyd8475who is greater than him?

    • @douglasboyd8475
      @douglasboyd8475 7 місяців тому

      Human nature of Christ speaking.
      As a human he hungered. He prayed. He was tempted. As God in the flesh, he calmed storms with a word. As God He walked on water. As God, He healed every disease, He raised the dead, He turned a lunch into a Buffett. He turned water into wine. He opened blinded eyes.
      Revelation 1:8 it says that he is the Almighty…. That means Yahweh. The God of the universe.

    • @KhabibTime-cb4ym
      @KhabibTime-cb4ym 7 місяців тому

      @@douglasboyd8475 who made Jesus performing miracle??

    • @douglasboyd8475
      @douglasboyd8475 7 місяців тому

      @@KhabibTime-cb4ym
      His Holy Spirit.
      Romans 8:9,10
      Galatians 4:6
      Philippians 1:19
      1 Peter 1:10,11
      2 Corinthians 3:17
      All of those verses say that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus Christ. That’s why when the Holy Spirit is inside you the Bible says that Jesus is inside you.
      Christ IN YOU the hope of glory.
      Anyone that has the spirit inside them has Christ on the inside of them.
      It’s how you love the way that he does. It’s how you treat people the way that he does. It’s how you have compassion on people the way that he does.

  • @csmith80
    @csmith80 Рік тому +15

    My issue is the bible doesnt say "Trinity" and it doesnt say they are equal. In Jesus dwelt the fullness of God, but the Son is certainly not equal to the Father...The bible simply doesnt support the Trinity doctrine.

    • @ohana8535
      @ohana8535 Рік тому +3

      "in Jesus dwelt the fullness of God". What does that even mean? It sound a bit like porn to be honest.

    • @jp783
      @jp783 Рік тому +6

      ​@@ohana8535hahaha your mind is in the gutter and I love it lol

    • @arnulfo267
      @arnulfo267 Рік тому +6

      The trinity is something that developed over the centuries. Just like most other things in Christian theology.

    • @ohana8535
      @ohana8535 Рік тому

      @@jp783 😁

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому +2

      The Bible doesn’t spell out the Trinity doctrine, but it engenders it by contradicting itself. The Trinity doctrine is an attempt to resolve certain contradictions in the Bible. Unfortunately, the Trinity doctrine is itself contradictory. The only real way to resolve the contradictions is to renounce the basic tenets of Christian faith. Jesus is not God, never was God, and didn’t become God. He was an itinerant self-appointed preacher with certain religious ideas, certain ethical ideas certain and devoted followers. When Jesus was arrested, tortured, and killed, his followers tried to come to terms with his death, the manner of his death, and the circumstance that Jesus’s central prediction did not come true. That attempt to come to terms initiated Christianity.

  • @davidsteer1941
    @davidsteer1941 Рік тому

    So sad I couldn't be at your London dinner, I live here. I need to pay more attention to stuff!!!! ☹️☹️☹️

  • @stanstarobin2785
    @stanstarobin2785 6 місяців тому +1

    All of a sudden I want to calculate a cosine function. I don’t know why?

  • @oceancoast92657
    @oceancoast92657 Рік тому +5

    Excellent.. I love listening to Bart.. One of the most insightful scholars
    Another way to reconcile the Godhead without resorting to the "Trinity" dogma.. is a concept of "Divine Investiture".. where the Father bestowed or vested the Son with his authority to act in his name. Much like a business owner bestows upon a CEO, but on a divine level. This is a little like Bart mentions that some say God made Jesus God.. but this investiture occurs before creation of the world. See Job 38:7 and John 1 And in the end, the Son will hand over the kingdom (Like CEO handing over the business) subject himself to the Father 1 Cor 15: 20-28. A similar investiture is being done with the Holy Spirit, that the Father sends.. Within the context of investiture, the will of the Son becomes the will of the Father, simply by the entrusted delegation of authority from the father. So when Jesus speaks , it carries the same weight and authority as the Father, during the his vested stewardship.
    Another think that helps reconcile the Godhead.. is not to demand strict Monotheism. The ancient Jewish cosmological world view was one of Henotheism.. Worship of one God (YHWH , god of Israel) , while not denying the existence of others. Deut 32:8-9.. God divided human kind according to the number of the sons of God. Israel was YHWH own portion. This is the world view that needs to be understood with detero-Isaiah verses that are typically used to project the "One God" monotheism .. but in reality, it was to affirm that for a captive Israel, there is only ONE God for Israel , and the god of Babylon (Marduk) was real but inferior. Once you come to this epiphany and realize that the demand for a ONE of the Universe wasn't a Jewish concept, but a Neo-Platonist idea that was becoming popular in the 3rd-4th centuries.. the scriptures actually demanding a 'Trinity' dogma..
    The whole Trinity dogma was simply a product of the times, the Hellenization of Christianity.

    • @fiily1
      @fiily1 Рік тому

      John 10:30-38
      Separate individuals, but in effect the same being.
      30 "I and the Father are one.”
      31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
      33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
      34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came-and Scripture cannot be set aside- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

    • @ji8044
      @ji8044 Рік тому

      That is similar to how the followers of Jesus understood him, born completely human but anointed/elevated by God the Father either at John's Baptism on in his resurrection.

    • @oceancoast92657
      @oceancoast92657 Рік тому +1

      @@fiily1 Nothing in Jesus citing of Ps 82 demands that they are one being.

    • @oceancoast92657
      @oceancoast92657 Рік тому +1

      @@Sportliveonline good for them.. I don't follow JW's ..but if they recognize that the trinity doctrine isn't actually expressed in the Bible.. good for them.

    • @oceancoast92657
      @oceancoast92657 Рік тому +1

      @@ji8044 I think that's kind of what Bart was saying, and probably very true for how his disciples understood him during his life and ministry.. However, it's equally plausible that he was elevated by investiture, before the world was. See Job 38 and John 1 Col 1:15-20

  • @zephyr-117sdropzone8
    @zephyr-117sdropzone8 Рік тому +5

    I personally don't see how the Trinity could be true. When the Son is mentioned in the NT, it is always in a subservient way to the Father. It's why I believe something like Mark 13:32, that no one knows the day or hour, not even the Son but only the Father, absolutely goes back to Jesus because it causes way too many problems for later christology and trinitarianism, which it did. As a Christian, I still think a version of the trinity is correct along with a spice of Arianism. That Father>Son>Holy Spirit, but not them all equal to each other.

    • @legron121
      @legron121 Рік тому +1

      It seems like a misapplication of the criterion of embarrassment to argue that the saying in Mark goes back to Jesus because it caused problems for later Christology. What matters is whether it caused problems for *Mark’s* Christology, and (in light of verses like Mark 1:11, 10:18, and 14:35) I see no reason to think it would have.
      But I agree that the Son is always subordinate to the Father in the NT (and nowhere is this more clearly expressed than in John’s Gospel, the latest one: e.g. “I can do nothing of myself, but only what the Father has taught me”).

    • @zephyr-117sdropzone8
      @zephyr-117sdropzone8 Рік тому

      @legron1290 Of course it doesn't cause problems for Mark. Because Mark doesn't believe what the 4th century fathers believed.

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому +2

      But whether they’re equal to each other or not, that’s still three Gods, not one, and as a “Christian” (presumably you mean “as an observant Christian”), you’re supposed to be a monotheist. There’s really no way out of this other than either to admit to polytheism or to renounce the notion that Jesus is or was divine, which is to renounce one of the two (take your pick) basic tenets of Christianity. You can still be a Christian culturally-in fact, you can’t help but be one-, and you can still revere Jesus..

    • @zephyr-117sdropzone8
      @zephyr-117sdropzone8 Рік тому

      @@jeffryphillipsburns Not at all. Jesus would be equal with the Father now. Not beforehand. My original comment refers to before the Crucifixion. He wasn't always equal with the Father.

    • @jeffryphillipsburns
      @jeffryphillipsburns Рік тому +1

      @@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Read my lips: It doesn’t matter whether they are equal or not, that’s still three Gods.It doesn’t matter at any point whether they are or were equal or not before or after or during the Crucification or at any other point.

  • @joetrapp9187
    @joetrapp9187 Рік тому +8

    "The Father, Son,....and that other guy."
    That's kind of how it was presented to us.

    • @dazzadizzy5308
      @dazzadizzy5308 Рік тому +1

      and the uncle?

    • @realDonaldTrump420
      @realDonaldTrump420 Рік тому

      And every Christian I've ever met actually worships the unholy trinity Satan Lucifer and the unholy spirit. Just like their Bible says they would. Intelligence is under rated by the religious.
      The Bible is very clear about these matters. No one has read religious texts for themselves in centuries it seems.

    • @charlesmendeley9823
      @charlesmendeley9823 Рік тому +3

      The pigeon.

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). all man want/need is wisdom ..man study chemistry, physics, biology,...,history, political science, philosophy, theology, religions to gain wisdom.
      wisdom is "knowing" "what" "to do".
      God is WISDOM itself.
      God/WISDOM:God the Father is the "whatness"/what is that exsts; God the Son is "knowing" of knowledge/truth/revelation; and God the Holy Spirit is the "doing"/the good.

  • @tzimisce1753
    @tzimisce1753 Рік тому

    The next episode sounds really interesting! This one was great too, as always. :)

  • @jefftilghman9059
    @jefftilghman9059 3 місяці тому

    How can I get a transcript of this video? There is so much info here I can't write it all down quick enough. I've tried.

  • @hereigoagain5050
    @hereigoagain5050 Рік тому +5

    Early Christians knew a good deal: three Gods for the worship of one.

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). all man want/need is wisdom ..man study chemistry, physics, biology,...,history, political science, philosophy, theology, religions to gain wisdom.
      wisdom is "knowing" "what" "to do".
      God is WISDOM itself.
      God/WISDOM:God the Father is the "whatness"/what is that exsts; God the Son is "knowing" of knowledge/truth/revelation; and God the Holy Spirit is the "doing"/the good.

  • @EinarGrondal
    @EinarGrondal Рік тому +12

    Thank you both for a brilliant show. The Trinity has such strange origins. My sense is that the early Church didn't just come up with profound theology for the fun of it. There was some need that fueled the creation of the Trinity - I'm combining through the Church fathers trying to figure this out. 😊🙏🏽

    • @greglogan7706
      @greglogan7706 Рік тому

      @@CharlieBravo887
      Exactly - in conjunction with the notion of one God - that is the history - and that is the truth - and that is why the evangelical brain is mush - and they worship an adulterer - and Trump won the 2020 election....
      Once you go down the path of brain-mush and self-deception....

    • @travis1240
      @travis1240 Рік тому +6

      They needed to paper over a lot of problems, and they thought that a mystery was a better solution than the problems laid bare.

    • @joejohnson6327
      @joejohnson6327 Рік тому +7

      Did you not watch this video? Bart explained in great detail why they needed to come up with the concept of the Trinity.

    • @jeffmacdonald9863
      @jeffmacdonald9863 Рік тому

      @@joejohnson6327 Yeah. It wasn't really to prove Jesus was God. They'd already decided on that in the first decades. They were just trying to figure out what that meant.

    • @realDonaldTrump420
      @realDonaldTrump420 Рік тому +1

      "In the beginning was the word". It's only low iq religious people who think this means Jesus is a Bible and God invented the Bible before he invented people to write the Bible. Weird interpretation of something very straight forward.
      The Bible is VERY clear that God is a wave maker. That the holy spirit is a Sine wave created by God, and that christ is the right arm of God, which produces the wave, which is God. The wave and its creator are inseparable as God is the lowest frequency sine wave from which all other waves are created via harmonics (angels). The Negative pole of a battery personifies the trinity more than anything. The entirety of religion is the study of waves made by God. Humans have gotten stupider by interpreting the children's version to slaves who they later fathered children with.

  • @eulldog
    @eulldog Рік тому +15

    The trinity was definitely made up, and doesn't even make sense to have 3 distinct separate entities that are all somehow the same to tell a story.
    Jesus never even said he was 1:1 God with the Father, often stating how different they are. The 'holy spirit' was just meant to describe the underlying 'ghost in the machine' we all have.
    Jesus only indicated he was A SON of God, and that WE ARE ALL SONS of this 'father' source (not just Jesus). Jesus never wanted to be worshipped as a God, and christianity was duct-taped together with the existing jewish beliefs at the time.
    Jesus was obviously a participant in the Eleusinian Mysteries, trying to communicate that we are 'all sons of the most high, but will die like pigs', which means we are all spiritual beings but will experience physical death like lowly animals.

    • @majesticrainmaker1460
      @majesticrainmaker1460 Рік тому +1

      A thing that no theologian uses.

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 Рік тому +1

      The way my "Religious release" (release from school for religious education) teacher explained it was to put three separate drops of water on her hand, and then having them pool in the middle to demonstrate three separate into one. What was really happening is that my Mom felt guilty for not taking us to Church.

    • @randatatang9222
      @randatatang9222 Рік тому +1

      It does make sense to be a mind and a body at the same time without being two different beings don't you think?

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 Рік тому

      @@randatatang9222 Nope, that makes no sense at all. If you have no body, you have no mind, and without your mind, your body is just meat.

    • @Nite395
      @Nite395 Рік тому

      You can also be a fully cat and fully elephant at the same time

  • @mtheinvincible4156
    @mtheinvincible4156 Рік тому

    Cool infinity glasses, Megan!

  • @preflex3502
    @preflex3502 Рік тому +2

    Megan's frames stole the show. I was trying to listen, but those spectacles kept stealing my attention. I had to turn off my monitor to listen attentively.

  • @wickedcabinboy
    @wickedcabinboy Рік тому +5

    OMG, those glasses. I like Megan, but those are a little distracting.

  • @juannifer32
    @juannifer32 Рік тому +4

    It's kind of sad the Holy Spirit was always and still always an after thought thrown in to complete the trinity.
    But all the focus is on Jesus It's like the Supremes and Jesus is Diana Ross.

    • @oliverbrownlow5615
      @oliverbrownlow5615 Рік тому +1

      Omg! For the first time, I understand the concept of the trinity!

  • @t_ylr
    @t_ylr Рік тому +12

    I grew up pentecostal and and every once in a while you run into non-trinitarian pentecostals. Usually they believe some form of Modalism like the Oneness or Apostolic Pentecostal churches. You'll even hear the modalist explanation of God from ppl who think they believe in the trinity haha. I wonder historically where this came from. I didn't realize it myself until I took adult initiation classes at a Catholic church. That was the honestly the first time I heard the phrasing that God is 3 persons sharing 1 nature/essence/ being.

    • @simonbattle0001
      @simonbattle0001 Рік тому +5

      My experience was fairly short lived among the Pentecostals .The preacher had the gift of receiving direct messages from "god" in tongues and his wife had the gift of translation of those tongues. So that was the part of the service god himself thanked us for making the car payment, the house payment for the preacher and his wife and the new church bus we were chipping in for. That's the way it went every Sunday and you know what? God even told us about emergency funding crises that our dear preacher had. As I said, short lived experienced.

    • @gazzas123
      @gazzas123 Рік тому +1

      There is no God.

    • @simonbattle0001
      @simonbattle0001 Рік тому +1

      @@gazzas123 Agreed. As they are defined and by the behavior of their followers and lack of care for them or even telling it's followers they must not lie.. oh wait, they did and they do and nothing happens. Well, until you get to the river Styx which no one can see until their dead proves what you say is true. I remember this comedian who would show up on Saturday Night Live in the 80's I think. His name was Father Guido Sarducci and he had a bit in his set and he thought that we should (just for fun) take all of the Bob's Big Boy statues and spread them around the countryside or put them on an island. That way when civilization arose once more crawling out of the ashes after another cataclysm they would think the statues were ancient god's and the people would worship them. lol.

    • @tongakhan230
      @tongakhan230 Рік тому +2

      Ever wondered how the borrowed Trinity concept got a 'Christian' title?
      Here is Paul's prophecy.
      (Acts 20:30) and from AMONG YOU yourselves men will rise and SPEAK TWISTED THINGS to draw away the disciples after themselves.
      Ponder over it.

    • @simonbattle0001
      @simonbattle0001 Рік тому

      @@tongakhan230 Good catch. I've been telling the faithful who show up wanting to tell me the good news that they are that generation the bible speaks of the great turning away who have become lovers of themselves and worship the beast. They get up and leave. Works every time perfectly Lol.

  • @timcarbone007
    @timcarbone007 Рік тому

    Another great great discussion. Amazing stuff

    • @bartdehrman
      @bartdehrman  Рік тому +1

      Thanks Tim, glad you're here! - Social Media Team

  • @bobstine3785
    @bobstine3785 10 місяців тому

    I lived with my wife and kids in Ashtead for a year, just down the road from Wimbledon. Surrey is super!

  • @sNation-xo9hk
    @sNation-xo9hk 11 місяців тому +12

    As a Muslim and history enthusiast,
    I really find this series very entertaining, informative, and thought provoking about the history of Jesus.
    At least for me, I found it annoying when Muslims wanted to learn about Jesus, yet I see Christian apologists or ill-informed Christians use emotions, missionary tactics, and Orientalists’ propaganda. I think both theists and atheists can learn a lot of these clips.
    Thanks Prof. Bart and Megan for your efforts and time.

    • @jamesmanm3623
      @jamesmanm3623 9 місяців тому

      God wills therefore God is trinitarian.
      Q: why is there something rather than nothing ? A: Because it is better that something (God) exists than nothing exit at all. (this is called faith by the way. ) therefore something (God) 's existence is the best. And that something (God) itself /himself is the best, otherwise that something (God) is self contradictory. man cannot follow two different masters; therefore we need to identify who the greatest possible master (God) is. the greatest possible master (God) is the one who created everyone else, otherwise he is not the greatest. why did God create? - because he wills so. the best will is to love other. the most proper love is between equals. created things are not God's equals for God has been loving before creation. Therefore God must be more than One. if there are only two persons in the world the two persons has not choice but to love each other for companionship. therefore to freely or validity love each other there must be more than two persons. since God is the best, having two choices (three persons altogether) and having millions choices (millions of persons ) doesn't make the quality of choice any better. therefore only three persons is necessary. and therefore God is one and God is three.
      God wills, therefore , God is trinitarian( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). all man want/need is wisdom ..man study chemistry, physics, biology,...,history, political science, philosophy, theology, religions to gain wisdom.
      wisdom is "knowing" "what" "to do".
      God is WISDOM itself.
      God/WISDOM:God the Father is the "whatness"/what is that exsts; God the Son is "knowing" of knowledge/truth/revelation; and God the Holy Spirit is the "doing"/the good.

  • @SY-gd6yc
    @SY-gd6yc 4 місяці тому +2

    The "The Lord is One" has always been the foundation of all major religions.

    • @Bobbychildree
      @Bobbychildree 4 місяці тому

      @@SY-gd6yc Do you include Hinduism in that statement? I think the Shema was a direct challenge to the polytheism that became rampant after the Great Flood. There have been many great but false religions based on polytheism.

    • @menmustchangebeforekingdoms
      @menmustchangebeforekingdoms 4 місяці тому

      @SY-gd6yc - The LORD is ONE, even Jesus reveals this in Mark 12:29 when he quotes Moses in Deuteronomy 6:4. "You" are also ONE Human being, but you are made up of 3 parts, Spirit, Soul, & Body. And without any of those 3 parts, you do NOT "exist" as ONE human being...Get It ??

  • @edwardbakker2571
    @edwardbakker2571 Рік тому +5

    Very very interesting, thank you very much. I understand that the Jews in OT times considered "Spirit" to be the power and presence of God himself. As Jesus/Yeshua and his followers were all Jews it seems very likely that they considered the Spirit to be just that: the power and presence of god. What the church calls "the mystery of God" is merely an euphorism (nothing more) for the utter state of linguistic confusion created by cristian church over the centuries. I can't help but wonder what the original manuscript (s) actually said on these matters before being copied and edited by doctinally biased scribes.

    • @truthdoesntcomeeasy743
      @truthdoesntcomeeasy743 Рік тому

      "Very, very interesting....."
      Try this and see where this one fits on the "interesting" scale. Thanks for your time and effort. Feel free to try to counter / challenge / refute / reason on:
      *Do YOU realize that the ONLY people on the face of the earth who practice and uphold and preach and defend the doctrine and honor of Jesus OF THE BIBLE are the Muslim* ?????
      It's an amazing situation really. On each and every fundamental doctrine, Christianity (overwhelming) is AGAINST Jesus of their very own scriptures BUT the Muslim is calling the Christians to go by what Jesus precticed and preached. 🤗
      👉 Jesus gave the Trinity-DESTROYING testimony that THE FATHER (SINGLE PERSON) IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD but the Christians (overwhelming) testify that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (The Trinity) is the true God.
      👉 John 4:21-22
      Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, *WORSHIP THE FATHER* .
      Ye worship ye know not what: *WE* know what *WE WORSHIP* : for salvation is of the Jews.
      Have another look:
      *WE WORSHIP*
      (The J-E-W nation INCLUDING ME - Jesus)
      👉 “And this is life eternal, that they might know *YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD* , and Jesus Christ, whom *YOU* have sent.”
      John 17:3
      👉 John 20:17: “Jesus saith unto her, ...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.”
      Have another look!
      ".... *TO MY GOD and YOUR GOD* "
      ME and YOU 👉 *WE*
      *WE WORSHIP*
      THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE FATHER who is THE GOD OF ME (Jesus) and YOU 👉 *OUR GOD*
      👉 And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord *OUR GOD* is one Lord
      Mark 12:29
      👉 Jesus teaches: “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *HIM ONLY* shalt thou serve” Luke 4:8. Notice the words: “HIM ONLY.” Jesus did not say “US only,” or “Him and I only.” How could he possibly i it more clear than that? Jesus told to worship ONLY THE FATHER - who is THE GOD of Jesus too.
      👉 NEVER preached about Original Sin
      👉 NEVER preached that for salvation, people needed to believe that Jesus died (will die) for their sins
      👉 NEVER preached that the wages of sins is death
      👉 PREACHED that for the forgiveness - NO payment needed, NO sacrifice of Jesus, NO Jesus paid for us
      👉 PREACHED that just turn away in sincere repentance and the Merciful God forgives
      👉 PREACHED adherence to the comprehensive Law Code as the path to salvation
      👉 PREACHED that for certain transgression (like mur-der) on the Law Code, CAPITAL punishment - PUTTING the transgressors to DE ATH - needed to be administered
      👉 PREACHED that his followers SHALL IN NO WAY ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN if they do not keep the comprehensive Law Code even better and moreso than the Scribes and the Pharisees
      👉 DID NOT eat p.i.g
      👉 FASTED and PREACHED FASTING
      👉 Greeted with the phrase "peace be with you"
      👉 Jesus was CIRCUMCISED. AN EVERLASTING COVENANT IN FLESH for the believers till the end of times
      👉 PREACHED that his followers follow the comprehensive Law Code which the Scribes and the Pharisees tell people to follow - that includes oblution / washing of the hands and feet before worship or entering a place of worship
      Of course the term the Father in the Jewish context. NOT that God has a Son.

  • @markantrobus8782
    @markantrobus8782 Рік тому

    What happened to Plotinus and Origen please?

  • @lopinitupou4626
    @lopinitupou4626 8 місяців тому

    Now were the references in the NT about Jesus being God, added also?