Canon C70 vs C300MKIII Image Quality Comparison
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Side by side footage comparison of the image quality differences between the Canon C70 and the Canon C300 MKIII. (watch in 4K if possible)
Cameras tested:
Canon C300MKIII
Canon C70
Canon C70 w/ EF-EOS R 0.71x Mount Adapter for EF-Mount (Canon's Speedbooster)
Special thanks to Caleb Wojcik for loaning me his C70s, check out his channel for more C70 content: / calebwojcikfilms
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I really appreciate how thorough you were with these tests! And yes, all Canon's transform luts are trash. I don't understand what's wrong with their quality control on that front
Thanks Tyler! Love your stuff man. Yea the Canon LUT thing is so weird. It's as if they're releasing luxury cars with all these amazing features, but then they don't tell the owners what type of gas or oil to use to make the cars perform their best.
@@ChrisFrancis I like the making a lemonade documentary
@@isaacasunciongallardo9781 Thanks Issac!!
I have no problem matching R5, c300 mkII and C70 with Canon's LUTs as long as I custom WB all three. I have had problems with Canon LUTs when using raw material.
FYI
One more thing. I just downloaded Canon’s newest LUTs (says v2.0 on each). They are not that new but I’ve been using v1.1 for way too long.
For me these 2.0 LUTs seem to fix many problems. Interview shots from c70, c300mkii, Eos r, r5 and r6 match quite well as long as I custom WB all cameras manually.
The LUTs also seem to fix the blue LED color shifting to violet which is part of the Canon color science.
I am using 65x65 3D LUTs with the full to full range. Interestingly Canon omitted the full to video LUTs from the new update.
All this essentially means that for future projects I am more likely to use Canon LUTs because currently I’ve been mostly using CSTs in Resolve as I like starting point better. CSTs just seems a bit more taxing on the computer.
(for those who don’t know)
CST= Color Space Transform
The lines of the vectroscope “opening up” with the .71 adapter means that it’s introducing more colors around it. The colors must be fringing a bit due to the adapter.
It's 410 megabits, not megabytes. Difference is only 8 times
Best part is the guy dancing at the end. More of him in camera tests pls.
Thanks for the shout-out and was happy to have my cameras be put to the test! Learned a bunch from this video.
The lines were fanning out because of chromatic abberation on the edges of the colour patches 😉
Regarding All-I vs Long GOP, testing a shot where the tripod is locked and the subject/background is nearly identical, is not helpful to see the benefits of All-I. Remember, since little in the image is changed except for her slight lifting/turning of the model's head, then long GOP is great for this particular scenario. If, however, it were a busy shot like a camera moving on a steadicam through a detailed background environment like brick walls, a busy street, or even along the water, then one can see long GOP start to fall apart in compression compared to All-I. If all one is doing is filming an interview, for example, then long GOP is perfectly fine. Lots of movement & action, however, All-I would help.
Man if you think two totally different cameras being that close to identical in log is not matching, then matching doesn’t exist.
Go on a tv truck show and match a ikegami with a sd lens and a sony with a hd lens, then you can come back and say whats “matching” 😂.
The difference isn’t them not matching its the tolerance difference between sensors on the manufacturing line. They are the same. At least as same as the micro millimeter machines can make em.
To be fair its good you saw the 1 percent differences, but this has nothing to do with the cameras, you set up 4 sony f5’s and they’ll be sometimes even more off. No two cameras in log will match closer. Its not possible. Good lesson to learn.
I think All-I vs LongGOP is a bit misunderstood where people are like All-I - good, LongGOP - bad. The data rate allocation is really important. All-I needs a much higher data ceiling to encode each frame with integrity. I don't know the actual figures (and it depends on how each format is implemented in any case) but you should be looking for data rates of around 4 times to 8 times higher for an All-I format to be outperforming an equivalent LongGOP one.
On most camera systems the data rate afforded ALL-I, being only around twice the amount allocated to the LongGOP or so, is not enough to allow it to exceed the more efficient format.
Generally speaking you should not expect to see an image quality increase using ALL-I (unless the data rate difference is very high).
ALL-I can give big advantages with moving detail though, despite the results of your test here. It really depends how much stuff is actually moving in frame / how fast / etc. It's worth using when the content demands it.
Thanks for the thorough review. Question: for the Long GOP (I think that's what you called it?) codec, how does that format perform in Premiere when editing compared to RAW? Do you have to make proxies to make it usable when scrubbing/playback on the timeline?
Decide for me. I can’t decide if I should undergo the raw workflow on the c300 or just use the C 70. Help !
Very nice and in depth! Seems that the c70 could be matched and balanced in camera using the color / phase adjustments.
I'd be curious if the c70 matched the other c70 without the speedbooster.
If you're thinking of long GOP recording, the HEVC long gop has way less macro blocking than the XF-AVC long gop because it's h265 encoding. Just harder to edit.
Yea, if/when I buy a C70 as a B-Cam I'll run it through these test and then tweak the internal color settings to try to get it to match as closely as possible in-camera (which I agree should be possible to get it dialed in close enough).
The camera's data rates you're stating are mega "bits" per second (Mbps), NOT mega "bytes" (MBps.)
Helpful video btw. Thanks!
you are correct, i always get bytes and bits confused
let's go safemoon, doge. i want me a c70. LOL
😂
Thanks, Chris! I found it helpful to see where the c70 and c300 mkiii differ. Also, it is good to see you back! Would love to see more project breakdowns as well as industry tips/tricks. Keep up the awesome content!
Thanks @Isaiah! Really appreciate the encouragement
Wow, there was a ton of noise in all of them for just being at the base ISO and lit. So much for DGO lol. The RAW looked much richer. Also really hate magenta, which the C70 has a ton of, I also noticed it didn't have as good of highlight rolloff when shooting outside next to the C300MKiii. I think Canon held back on the C70.
Great points
Is it just me or does the rendering of the face look slightly different between the c300 and c70. like blockier on the c70
Hey Chris,
thanks for this Comparison. It was very informative.
C70 owner here. Great video Chris - have sub'd. I have customised a button to switch quickly between 25 and 120 fps in certain circumstances - but could only find a way to do this if both are long-GOP. Although initially concerned about giving-up quality at 25 fps - real-world - I cannot see any difference between the codecs and am beyond impressed with the look and DR of this camera
for sure, the long GOP really exceeded my expectations. thanks for the sub!
Why did you wait for 30 minutes before running the auto black balance?
An over abundance of caution to eliminate any variances in the tests. In general black balances will be most accurate when the camera is at its operating temperature. When dealing with cameras like RED this more important because the camera gets so hot when recording.
Excellent, exhaustive comparisons - some great takeaways and tips for ALL videographers regardless of what camera you shoot.
A lot of work here! Thanks so much for sharing all this useful information! Proud to be your subscriber!
Curious, why didn’t you just white balance the cameras to your color card? This would have solved the majority of the discernible differences between the cameras - even the lens variable.
Nice Video! But the chromatic aberration with the speedbooster does not look good. Do you think it's coming from the lens or the adapter?
The amount of time and effort in this test is crazy. Thanks so much! I can't afford any of these high end equipment just yet, but it's interesting to learn more.
One question though, do you find the internal NDs of Canon to be kinda limiting? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they're kind of like in fixed steps and not a internal VND like the FX6 or FX9 right?
Would that be an issue that forces you to use non-native ISO in order to compensate for 1/3 stop differences that the fixed internal NDs might not cover?
Oh, and you might have gotten Mbps and MBps confused.
You’re welcome! No I don’t find the ND steps limiting, that’s basically how it’s always been done. Great quality variable ND filters didn’t exist until a few years ago actually so they’re still a relatively new thing. Personally I don’t have a problem adjusting the iso up or down a little bit to nail exposure. Especially when bumping it up, the Canon image is so clean when shooting compressed that it doesn’t really add any noticeable noise of just bumping a little
Chris: I thought same censor and same color science
Canon: you just got played son. :D
I forget if I commented on this video, but I love this video!
Great comparison.. Thumbs up too you.
Thanks Chuck!
Thank you for these great samples. Subscribed. I hear you about Long Hop Vs All-I - the only quality difference I've found in my work on XT'4s is the lower quality of life while waiting for All-I to download, backup or render. Cheers.
5:15 Chromatic aberration is quite obvious with the 0.71x adapter.
The DIT community thanks you for your service.
Brilliant comparison + excellent video!!
Would love to see some Canon R5 4K HQ thrown into some comparisons with C70 etc! :)
I'm new to filming and would like to be your student. I like this video a lot.
Great job comparing and discovery relative to the importance of lenses. Thanks Chris
Great research, helpful results!!! Subscribed ✔️
Thanks Mark!
Great video Chris. Super detailed and well done. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Griffin! Really enjoying your vids
Did Canon in fact update its look-up-tables?
new to the cinema camera universe, but this was definitely interesting to learn about regarding issues with shooting and matching cameras, so thanks for making video.
As an optician I think that's the reason: The Speedbooster lens has a coated surface to reduce reflection. It's impossible to reduce all refection, so the coating has the thickness to reduce mostly blue. Because of that, more red will enter the sensor. So we have to live with it, still better than no coating and losing light ;). Thanks for the test.
awesome insight, thanks for sharing!
Such an awesome review. Much appreciated
A lot of work here! Thanks so much for sharing all this useful information! Can’t wait for part 2! Proud to be your subscriber!
This is a great comparison! Thank you man!
Great video!! I own both as well and was curious about this because I sometimes prefer the c70 to get the wider FOV with the adapter to not crop my lenses. One thing I would say about switching to lower bit rate though is be careful because this is a controlled light ideally lit kind of setting. The point of the data in my view is for when you have to push the footage harder in your grading for less ideal situations and broader exposure ranges. I think in any more challenging situations like that there might be more of a difference. I just wouldn't make a decision across the board based on this circumstance to change the bitrate like that. Thanks again!!
Hey Chris, congrats on the awesome video
Thank you for creating such a great video
Incredibly thorough tests. Amazing!
This was the most thorough review of the C 300 and C 70 and you were even able to find out there the reasons for the Problems are. Another reviewer suggested to not use the Canon RF to EF adapter, but since i don’t have both Cameras i can’t prove or test his claim......definitely outstanding work
thank you!!
Very strange sequence towards the end
awesome video - insanely informtive not sure why more people havn't shown this comparison online with videos already - very eye opening
Thanks mate, extremely useful now we have both
TIGHT REVIEW!
I wish they had some IS on that C70 body...
who else can recognize this ? only u 😜😆
Could the chromatic aberration on the focal reducer be the issue because it was easily noticeable?
ah, that could be it
Thanks for taking the time to do this so thoroughly
Very thorough and helpful as I have both of these cameras. In practical terms for the work I do... the cameras match just fine. I might preset the C70 with a setting that brings the camera closer to the C300m3 but that's getting pretty deep into the camera nitty gritty. Like you say, different lenses probably have more effect.
damn. even when watching a camera comparison I can still learn a ton
Really thorough, I'll pass this video on to my guys.
music is so dramatic at 2:10 lol
Great informative video.
I like more the color form the c300
Whew. LOTS of work, LOTS of time. Thanks for your due diligence!
Loved this comparison! Been debating wether to get the C70 or C300mkiii and I feel Im good with C70! Thanks!
c300 images makes me feel better
I've watched this 3 times.
Love this thank you.
Awesome!!!!! But what I would say about lens maybe the manufacturer should create matching lens groups and serial numbers even within specific lens. And about the guy dancing - white people can't dance!!!!!
Great comparison! Just one fatal flaw at the end: on a mostly white backdrop, the 160mbps is going to be very similar to the 410mbps. You need to do a comparison that shows something like falling rain, waves, foliage, etc to see the difference and I bet it's pretty drastic!
Actually from the manual I think the C70 is 260mbps at 60fps and the C300mkIII is 810mbps, so it's a huge data rate difference
For sure. I have ended up shooting in the higher data rate 99% of the time as I no longer handle post production on my shoots so storage space is now longer a consideration
If I was still creating a lot of content for UA-cam I would certainly use the long GOP to save on storage
Hi, Chris can you send me a close up photo or video of the cable to connect the monitor unit of the c300 Mark 2 to the body cause i want to see if i can get this monitor to connect to my C300 Mark 1 cause my monitor is broken
Thanks! Would like to see an update including the C70's raw :)
Excellent✌
The C70 just looks more contrasty. The C300 Mark 3 seems to have smoother color transitions in the tones.
I agree. The C70 has a slightly more processed look, extra contrast a part of that. Years ago, I was comparing the Nikon D90 and the Nikon D300. Both had the same (crop) sensor. However, the D300 had a better image as it’s processing was better, so I bought the D300. In a similar way, I feel the internal processing is better in the C300 Mark 3 than the C70. I preferred the former’s image, but it is more expensive. Though close, having the same sensor, doesn’t mean it has the same output, in my view.
Very detailed comparison. I wonder how the standard canon EF-RF adapter would compare to the changes seen in the 0.71 adapter.
@joaquin, the standard EF-RF adapter is what was used on the other C70 featured in these tests
@@ChrisFrancis Ah, my mistake! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
@@joaquinbarlow No worries!, Thx!
This was helpful bud. I'm a C70 fanboy.
The sensor is only half of it. How the camera uses that sensor matters. Many cars share the same engine, but how you tune that engine can produce double the power
I was literally JUST going through the same annoyances with the CLOG2 to rec709 LUT. It does make it darker for sure, and kinda clips the blacks. Maybe this is one of those scenarios where we need to overexposed by a stop when shooting CLOG2?
That was a deep dive! Thanks for the comparison.
Phew! I need a vacay after that one 😅. Glad you liked it!
@@ChrisFrancis reminded me of a Gerald Undone video. I've been filming for 15yrs but listening to guys like you reminds me there's still plenty to learn.
@@Extremehick Awesome, thanks James!! I'm always learning, too! (who knew photo lenses could vary so much in quality?!)
Your video is great.I want to be consulted.How does backlight behave 0.71, Is glare serious?
I love all the tests but I am also really interested in the lighting setups as well. Any chance you could do a video deconstructing the setup with the girl reading a book? The decision to use an 8x8 bounce vs a large umbrella for example. Thanks!
This is really a very in-depth comparison i have ever seen for C70, C70+.71 booster, and C300MKIII... good work you have done!! Great thanks!!
Very interesting.
wait. I think you mistook MB and Mb, 1MB=8Mb
B=bytes, b=bits
정성스러운 영상 입니다 고맙읍니다
Absolute gold. I really appreciate these test. 🙌🏼
This confirmed many of the things I know but I’m very glad you made it
Thank you!
C70
Informative! Great comparison really showing what is going on with the c70 and c300mk3. This video is simply ja cleverly put together. Amazing! Canon needs to get those transform luts updated asap.
You don't need to record for 30 minutes in order to black balance. Leaving the camera on for 20 min is enough to do the black balance. Good video.
DANCE BREAK!
Thank you.
Great job on this Chris! Some solid info. Thank you.
Did you made black balance after each profile change and after going into and back to slow and fast mode?
I would never do that out in the field, so no I did not black balance after the initial black balance at the start of the testing session.
@@ChrisFrancis got it, however it might cause some Color match issues
I guess it’s possible, but it shouldn’t be a problem seeing that I had let the cameras run for 30 min to get up to operating heat before black balancing. Operating temperature is the main factor that can influence the need for a black balance.
Canon also recommends doing a black balance any time you change picture profiles, as each change modifies the black point according to that profile.
Just a note that the data rates are actually megabits, not megabytes - 8 megabits to 1 megabyte, thanks for doing the tests!
Your video is very helpful and just makes me wonder why spend the money on the C300 if C70 is just as good?
All depends on the environment you use it in. Both are great cameras
@@ChrisFrancis I want to get a camera to make indie film. So I'm not sure which one is better considering I want to save money and both seem to shoot almost the same quality.
@@atomicdynamo6062 C70 then spend the rest of the money getting the best actors possible and a good sound person
Can I ask where you found the official Canon LUT?
Thorough!
Hi, this is handy, thanks for sharing!
If you can use davinci resolve for future color/iso tests.
Cheers.
Excellent test!
If this wasn't a test, I'd call him picky 🤪
Excellent comparison. Nice work!