I think this all stems from how Sonic has been treated since Sonic 06. So when a game like Sonic Frontiers comes out and exceeds a lot of people's expectations, Sonic fans (myself included) tend to get over the top sometimes with defending a Sonic game when critics have actual constructive criticism towards it. Sonic Frontiers isn't perfect, but it's definitely one of my favorite Sonic games in a LONG time
Toxicity in this community is honestly some of the worst I’ve ever seen in a community, while I’ve seen other communities with pretty bad toxicity like the Kirby or Crash communities this is kinda on a whole other level, and this recent toxicity is kinda getting in my head and making me think deeper than I really should. When I saw Pokémon Scarlet and Violet footage come out I won’t lie and say I really just bashed it but never compared it to other series, just not happy with what the state it was released in since i’m not a fan anymore from what they’ve been doing recently. Then seeing others compare it to Frontiers just looked desperate to make their game look better than it was I love Frontiers but I won’t lie and say their aren’t major flaws. I just want this community to be fully wholesome where everyone can be peaceful and not make a big deal about a single opinion that goes for other communities to but I guess we can only dream.
I agree with this, i know this game has its clear problems, a weak final arc, pop in, elder kokos level up system, some camera bugs at times. I think its pretty iffy, but im glad that i can see this game wants to be more and most things can be fixed in updates. But even if the game is the best thing we have in a while, keeping your mind open is a good thing.
My criticisms for Frontiers are: •pop in(obviously) •Cyberspaces wonky controls •the ending was weird and only raises questions than answers But that's it besides that it's a good game that deserves a sequel.
This is NOT just on Twitter. This happens all over social media. YT comments,, Discord and Reddit. I've never used Twitter, just UA-cam and I've been harassed for disliking the Cyberspace levels, loving the WereHog combat and hating Sonic Colors. Even been called a pedo for liking Genshin Impact. I've gotten a comment recently from someone saying that I should be killed for liking Genshin. And this was on YT. Also, the reason why Toxic positivity is point out a lot is because it's been more common in the last recent years. Jebtube even talked about it in his recent Sonic video called Sonic fan tears review.
Someone in both fandoms, I guess it was a good choice for me to keep distance from the sonic community for a while, although the genshin community is also not perfect to stay in at least they barely bring up the Game Awards and probably forgot about it at this point
People are getting harassed for not liking the Mario movie too, they’ll have genuine issues with it and then people say “it’s okay to have shit takes” or “bro has never played Mario 💀💀💀😂😂😂”
@@Keyblade_welder_13 I posted my opinion and just had to delete it about sonic frontiers and some of them already act like I’m saying facts and not opinion… they acting like smart asses and it’s so annoying, sometimes I feel embarrassed being in the sonic community..
@@infinitoknight6577 I hear ya. It's insane how offended people get over just a different opinion. Honestly, Sonic fans have been getting spoiled lately. Ever since the first movie came out and it's been getting to their heads. I get that Sonic fans are tired of the franchise getting heated, but that's no excuse at all. No franchise is perfect. The whole game awards thing from last year was when I decided I want nothing to do with the fandom. It doesn't matter if Genshin fans were using bots or not, the only thing that matters is that the Sonic fanbase started it. THEY provoke'd them. Especially when they decided to be racist towards the Chinese side of the Genshin community. They punched first and got karma real good. Everyone is intited to their opinion, regardless of what the majority thinks.
The irony of this video is that I found it because someone posted it as an obnoxious tweet dunking on you for daring to claim Sonic fans have an issue with toxic positivity. It's not uncommon for these people to blatantly exhibit the very behaviour that these statements are criticising in their own rebuttals, it's embarrassing. I've seen someone state that they "hate anyone who shits on Sonic", in case the gate-keeping and toxic positivity needed to be made any more clear. Anyway, thank you for promoting a balanced discourse where anyone is able to share their opinion without fear of harassment. It's not fun and should never be encouraged or enabled, especially from those with large followings.
Well said. Hopefully, we can just respectfully agree & disagree with opinions because the knee jerk reaction attacks are just tiring. Anyways, great video and hope you get to 1K subs soon!
Thanks a lot! the knee jerk reactions are super annoying to deal with and its basically the same argument every time, and it repeats all over with each new sonic game announced. Its just tiring at this point for sure.
THANK YOU. This is a perfect video. You basically said everything I said in my video exactly, which I appreciate. I wish the toxic positivity wasn't the only one being called out because both sides are just as problematic and honestly toxic negativity itself is arguably worse because you're trying to shut down happiness which is a nicer feeling than anger. I wish Sonic fans would realize that because honestly toxicity is my only issue with the fanbase as it stands.
I gotta call bull on scarlet and violet because pokemon has less of an excuse to have bugs like this mainly because legends arceus exists, that game was a first step for pokemon and was still a smash hit and serves as the template of scarlet and violet, and pokemon itself often don't have bugs or glitches. And frontiers has more of an excuse to be like this. (not unexcused whats broken is broken and needs to be fixed) because the open zone is a new concept so they are not going to get everything right on the first try. And yes there are issues that don't involve the pop in and jank. The rails , Platforms, dashpannles, and springs can me annoying and an issue when you just want to run in the open zone. And having a small to medium momentum so you can run up any wall seem like a no duh thing to add.
I'm glad you addressed this situation because this has been recent for the past week seeing people getting haressed based on their opinion Pokemon fans and Sonic Fans arguing back and forth has really become a mess in the gaming community. Even though I really enjoyed my time with Frontiers I'm probably not going to be engaging in the hype cycle for the next Sonic game because it is just that bad. I've moved on from Sonic Forces and it's just mediocre at best not the worst thing in the world and I'm happy people like you can get enjoyment out of the game. Also keep up with your videos 👍
I really like Sonic Forces it was the first Sonic game I played and it means a lot to me but people just like to clown at others for liking a specific game that they hate I'm at the point where I just don't care I love Sonic and the entire franchise's history but I hate video game companies and their fanbase/supporters.
The biggest issue ultimately stems from not having a new game for 5 years, and it's a battle that has unfortunately transformed into this forced generalization of young fans VS old fans. Sonic fans that were 12 years old when Forces came out are now 17. They went through middle school and high school without a single new mainline game. They were too young to have a mature enough conscience to understand why older fans (like myself) were upset with the state of the franchise because they went through such a large part of their adolescence virtually having nothing new, which was not the norm prior to 2017. There was something new just about every year. So now, you have a bunch of these 17 year olds running rampant on Twitter fostering a bunch of their opinions based on their own experience about the franchise that are founded upon the basis of NOT having anything new for 5 years straight, and it ultimately is leading these "toxic positive" fans into accepting that ANYTHING new must automatically be good. I wouldn't call it so much as "toxic positive" fans, rather, Sonic Brand Loyalists. I don't personally put all the blame on these types of fans because it's ultimately SEGA's fault for producing virtually no new content for as large a franchise as Sonic for THAT long. I've been a part of this fanbase for 15 years- since 2007- and I truly think that's where a lot of these wars about the state of Sonic stem from. Granted, not every young fan acts this way of course. But I was a young fan once. I personalized Sonic as part of my own identity during an age where I was still trying to find my own. I defended Sonic Boom for God's sake. It's something that younger fans do in just about every fanbase, but it's specifically exemplified with Sonic more than the average fanbase because Sonic appeals to a wider age range. I do think Twitter as a whole also exemplifies these issues because of the very nature of how "soapbox-y" the platform tends to be and how much the "L + ratio" culture has taken over, and I think this is also an issue that the OLDER fans tend to do as well. It's all about "who has the better opinion for the franchise." The older fans, however, the ones deemed "toxic negative", tend to have a more pessimistic view of the franchise because of how THEY grew up perceiving Sonic. They aren't as willing to accept change because they hold the version of Sonic they remember loving so tightly and don't want to let go. With all of this being said, I don't like these sorts of generalizations about groups of people in the fanbase that we've all been subjected to generalizing in the first place. There SERIOUSLY needs to be a compromise from everyone in the fanbase if we TRULY want to have more healthy discussion, and it MUST go beyond these generalizations of who is "toxic positive" and who is "toxic negative", who is young, who is old, who's an Adventure fanboy or Classic Elitist. There's no unity because everyone is constantly fighting over what makes Sonic successful in the first place when at the end of the day, we all love this franchise.
You know it really bothers me you spent so much time talking about not generalizing Sonic fans and yet you kind of just did that with younger fans... so I'm going to do the same here Personally find the older "hardcore" fans to be more obnoxious because they bring so many expectations for what the series should look like they're inevitably disappointed instead of just accepting the game as it is for better and worse. Always trying to compare it to older titles even if they have entirely different gameplay loops or design philosophy Idk maybe it's just me growing up with everything from Sonic Heroes up til Sonic Unleashed, but I've always been fine with the games playing different from each other. The thing that made me start to move away from the series was redundancy in the boost formula and older sonic fans complaining about every new release not being as good as [Insert favorite Sonic game]. By the time I first saw footage of Forces, I was already feeling pretty burnt out on the fandom and series Btw I don't say any of this to be mean and it's great Sonic fans love this series so much, but I don't think some fans who have grown up playing most of the games realize how toxic and insufferable their "critiques" can be when all pooled together
This is why I try to respect others' opinions because I feel like I've just let my loved ones down when I'm toxicly positive or negative to someone on the internet. I don't support either stance, and their just leading us down a path we shouldn't be going on. If someone has a complaint, as ridiculous as it may seem, just let them voice it out and try to understand where they're coming from. They aren't just Sonic haters, they want the best for the series. We all just have different opinions on what Sonic should be, and that is completely okay. Reasonable discussions are almost impossible to have with this big issue flowing throughout the fanbase. I haven't really had much of an issue with it recently, but that doesn't make it a non-factor. I don't know if we'll ever get this issue resolved, probably not completely. Toxic people are real, and they are out there waiting to attack their next victim. I'm usually positive when it comes to this franchise which can lead me to be toxicly positive when I don't mean to. I just wish the best for any fans out there who are suffering constantly from this issue. I've been through your pain. 🙏🏻
This whole toxic positivity/negativity thing is so dumb honestly. Trying to isolate toxicity into these positivity/negativity groups only makes it harder to look at the bigger picture and if not that, it's completely pointless. Toxic positivity and toxic negativity are like water and juice. Yes they are both different, but they are still both liquid. Toxic positivity and toxic negativity are technically different, but in essence they are both the same thing: toxicity. The issue with Sonic discussion is toxicity, period. The sooner the community realizes this, the better.
Although I think there’s nothing wrong with being positive or negative, regardless of which camp you fall into you should never criticize someone simply for having a different opinion.
My personal issue with a lot of discussion is simply objective misinformation being spread, which can muddy actual evaluation and accessibility going forward. One can like or dislike a game as much as it's the case, but one should always try to be accurate about what one says. It happens far too often that I hear people push issues that flat out don't exist onto games or people ignore issues because of false perceptions along the lines of Frontiers being a 7/10 automatically meaning it sucks. To be constructive, one needs to have a proper understanding of what is broken, what isn't and how one can build upon what is there. Nitpicks are important, but so is getting the broad strokes right.(Like how Unwiished does not actually force motion. Or that Sonic Team did not make Boom.)
This is why i keep my fanfics to myself instead of sharing it to the fanbase. They're mad toxic. Specially with their head-canon timelines & their OC's 😓 Also we have more trolls in sonic fanbases than actual sonic fans themselves. 😓😓 I give Sonic Forces 1.5/10 I'll give Sonic Frontiers 7.5/10, from what i'm experiencing so far.
SO I saw that someone was talking shit on Twitter and got scared when your account got tagged lmao. Naturally, I had to look up this video and was surprised to see that how mature (and as such, ironic considering) this video really was. If you really are 15, you're a hell of alot wiser than most kids your age, let alone a video game fandom. Keep it up kid 👍 you'll be going places if you're this good already
A lot of sonic fanboys are in denial, they over looked the games massive issue like the pop in, and praise the game. As a sonic fan I can honestly say its average, not worth the full price tag. But it is very annoying hearing people saying this is the best game in a long time, at this point the fanboys are accepting the bear minimum. I don't understand why the fanboys are going after reviewers who dont like the game, why do they care soo much they should shut up and enjoy their game. Why are they looking at reviews in the first place? They already bought the game???
You made some valid points in your video. I've seen people have ignorant reasons for harassing people which not only makes them idiots but increases the toxicity even more. It's an endless cycle. Thank God I felt Twitter cuz of how they act. Very good vid, my dude 😎👍😉
Actually a very well put together video on the topic. I love when content creators can discuss a problem in a community without coming off as bias. Keep it up dude! :)
5:06 Yeah, that was corny. But leaving that aside, toxicity, both positive and negative, is a very serious problem that the fanbase has been dealing with for many years and to be fair, many fanbases have also suffered from this type of problem, to a greater or lesser extent. Currently, the franchise is taking a new direction that many say will be good, but that will bring a new wave of new fans that will inevitably bring new debates.
idk if it was because how you worded it but you made a point to make it like 70% an attack on toxic positivity, then turned the video around to make it also on toxic negativity which is way worse because people were enjoying the game or looking forward to it and just being attacked from a twitter and youtube front, there was far far more negativity, especially when they saw people being positive, people played the demo and loved it - “those weren’t sonic fans” “those were just casuals” “more people played it and loved it- “ they aren’t hardcore fans” “they were paid” reception leading to release was 90% good and the toxic negativity side couldn’t accept it i will agree that the toxic positivity was there too
From my experience there has been far more talk about toxic positivity, and my goal is to call each one out equally. I have no bias to either side as I think both are just as bad
@@Daviron i do agree both are bad and i tend to avoid both sides when it comes to twitter (as you mentioned in your video ) but speaking from a youtube standpoint, it’s far negative (i won’t dare shoutout the 2 big channels that have been nothing but toxic negative , as a sonic fan who know just who i mean ) i do understand both sides toxic positivity comes from a longing of wanting a good game despite and while ignoring the flaws toxic negativity is nitpicking everything under the guise of being “cautiously optimistic” are there points to both sides ? yes and no
Sonic fans got Dunkey trending for comparing user scores from Frontiers to way better games, saying "they're different franchises and shouldn't be compared" or how "mean spirited it was towards those who enjoyed Frontiers". Not even a week later, those same Twitter Sonic fans bitch and moan about the new Pokémon game having a higher metascore than Frontiers You can't make this shit up🤦🏾♂️
I said Sonic 06 was *personally* more enjoyable *to me* than Sonic Omens. Some dude got so pissed. I... think some of you may know who I'm referring to.
I'll say it here because why not: There's been a weird obsession with calling things "toxic negativity" or "toxic positivity" and honestly I don't get it. While I personally have been watching from afar and have my own biases, it's just become a weird culture in general. When the very first IGN video dropped of Sonic Frontiers, I couldn't escape the "it's another trash game" mentality, and that was generally how people felt until the demos started and people actually got to play it. And even then, I'd say negativity was still a big part of it. Being "toxic" with these things usually means trying to force someone to feel a certain way, and this doesn't really happen often enough for how often people speak of it. Honestly, I think people try to categorize too much to blame a certain group of people and ignore the actual users who are rude, aggressive, and disrespectful. Generalizations like this are more often than not harmful, and now people will call the sonic fanbase this or that due to less than 1% of the fanbase. That's more of a Twitter issue and not Sonic specific though. There are lots of problems in the Sonic community, but toxic negativity and toxic positivity aren't really one of them. I think the comparisons to Pokémon, while misguided and/or for laughs, do highlight something. No one in their community is like "This is toxic positivity! This game is broken and we shouldn't reward game freak with our praise and money. " they're not doing the opposite either, they're just stating their opinions and discussing it. They certainly have bigger issues all across the board, but they handle them in a regular way by arguing and discussing them instead of framing certain people or attitudes as a problem the fanbase exudes. And I think that's for the better really, people are too attached to words to call people or explain certain phenomena. But at the end of the day, certain people are just rude and others want a reaction. Just wish we didn't give them it.
I know this comment is months old. But I just wanna say this. This comment screams to me that you've been living under a rock. Because this has been a problem for about a decade now. All the way back from the Sammiethesonicfan's (I think that's what his username was called.) days from the late 2000s. Where their's been major discourse from the sonic fanbase since many sonic fans would just endlessly defend any sonic game from any shred of community.
not only sonic fanbase that do this kind of trend by spreading blind hate toward a game they didn't even play, its how those kind of people get digest by sonic never good term by media. When internet used to bash the franchise many times its understandable there is alot of toxic positivity in fanbase to make themself feel better about the franchise. Its truly rough franchise, but i can understand why they want to defend it. Sonic fanbase is the one that get damaged by all of this in the end.
well spoken. I brought this up in an earlier video of my own, but Sonic discourse was the WORST with Frontiers. the worst it's been in a very long time, and it's because of these two groups.
The Sonic fanbase kinda just mixed legitimate critcism and biased criticism into 1 thing and will just harass anything that they think is the natural flow of the franchise
People who think toxic positivity is even remotely equal to toxic negativity are lying to themselves. How many times does a group of people shitting on reviews that praise Frontiers to oblivion, and how many times do you a see a group of people bring upset about a "unfairly" negative review?
I got roasted for saying i love sonic 4 and forces by people saying mania and generations are far better and my opinions are trash and i have low standards and im the problem with the sonic fanbase ect. I now have a huge distaste for mania and generations due to those games Association with that event. I can't even play them now without getting mad. Which causes me to double down on being in the minority when it comes to defending shadow, forces, 4, cyberspace, lost world, werehog ect. Which then causes the cycle to continue.
Thank you somebody said it both sides are terrible i get that the toxic positive side is bad but i like how rare the toxic negative side gets brought up heck i love scarlet and violet right now and i know it's problems but i can see its flaws and not saying it's perfect where there is no such thing as perfect i mean when you look at it it's more then a sonic or pokemon fanbase problem every fanbase has these types of people
Someone wise once said the sonic fanbase are beaten dogs and truer words couldn't have been spoken. An even larger issue i think is all the people with nostalgia goggles on still dismissing anything new that isn't exactly like the games they grew up with like for example a large portion of adventure fans. Criticism for a lot of sonic games nowadays most of the time feels very invalid and more subjective. People still use the word momentum wrong and act like momentum isn't in every title when it is.
I feel like the problem is a mainly Twitter thing and since most things suck on Twitter I just avoid the app. But I do think it’s a problem since I see this problem pretty often especially when dumpster diving on Yt.
Its ok to like the games, but you are allowed to have an opinion. So as long as you arn't hurting anyone. I know I don't like being around people like there. If you can enjoy the games, then good for you, you are the bigger person who finds enjoyment.
It’s a shame that some people can’t see that the game have flaws. All games have flaws and saying that it’s okay for it to have popins but, it’s not okay for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet. Yeah. Finally a really fun Sonic game.JUST ENJOY THE GAME!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
all criticism is fine and acceptable but it has to be REASONABLE and not be "this game isn't what sonic was during THIS game so it's bad" same with complaints about a story, make actual points instead of pointing at another game and saying "it should be like this" if you dislike something explain the problems, please do, you think the combat is boring because of how it slows down the traversal? ok fine. you think the combat is bad because sonic shouldn't have combat at all and be just like adventure and heroes? not fine
I know most of the time the people say that the Sonic community are toxic despite I don't spend much time with the Sonic community itself but, actually, the only time that I was witness of their toxicity and get a bad experience with their toxic behavior, it was in the Hedgehog Engine Discord server. I was looking for a partners for give me a hand for the modding into Sonic Frontiers since I have still somes issue into the modding when I create my own mods so I accept any kind of help, even from those who are new but know a bit more than me, for give me somes good tips and check an eye into my own mods. However nobody answer me because they was too much focus to talk about a sort of drama story about a user who get banned or something but I didn't pay too much attention about it since it's none of my business. However, one week later, I notice nobody answer my question due to talk too much about their drama story so, when I have try to ask the same question again by wonder if this time they will notice my question, I meet somes kiddo from the admin/moderators who threatened to ban me if I spam the same question because they though I was a bot or a scam and I have nicely say without be vulgar and by stay calm that I'm into their server because I was searching for someone for give me a hand into the modding since somes people advices me the Hedgehog Engine server if I wanted somes help about the modding for those last Sonic games unless it's my fault and that I'm not in the good server for talk and ask about modding tips and help so, somes times later, I notice I get banned from Hedgehog Engine server. Maybe because I wasn't toxic for them unlike those dude who was throw insult and salty comment to someone for one week without they get banned until they change conversation so, even if I like somes Sonic games, I confirm the community can be toxic and it even contaminate the modding community as well so, since this accident who happend somes month ago, I can say I don't appreciate too much the Sonic community. I know everyone isn't like that but it still sad though so I don't advice for anyone to go to the Hedgehog Engine server except if you really want to meet somes people with a big toxic behavior.
Look, just because I'm glad that I bought Sonic Frontiers for 60 dollars and dodged a bullet with Pokemon Scarlet and Violet dosn't mean that I don't fully have no problems with Sonic Frontiers either. It could of used at least another year of development to get some of the jank out and fix that pop in issue. But it still has more polish to it than Pokemon Scarlet and Violet though... The fact that it was made by 60 people is still impressive, but the Sonic franchise has room to grow...
I'm not gonna hold you the thumbnail/title is really inflammatory and is attracting a lot of negative attention to the video. I'd highly suggest changing it so the discourse can remain healthy. That being said, I agree with a lot of the points you said. I'd also like to add that the moment criticism is framed in a way that insults the devs/fanbase it crosses the line. The moment you say that fans are "settling for mediocrity" or SonicTeam is incompetent (by comparing them to fan/indie games) I start tuning you out.
The Sonic fanbase is like the Spider-Man fanbase, except not as bad. Both fanbases have toxic positivity and negativity. The Spider-Man fanbase has so much toxic positivity toward the Raimi films and annoyingly overuse the memes. And they carry so much toxic negativity toward the MCU ones to the point where they flat-out lie with their criticisms, like the “no consequences” BS argument. The main reason why I find the Spider-Man fanbase so much worse than the Sonic fanbase is because I can’t relate or understand their viewpoints at all. I have not found a single major argument and criticism from Spider-Man fans that either doesn’t sound stupid, flawed, hypocritical, or just flat-out wrong. Also, I find critiquing movies to be far more subjective than critiquing video games. What makes the Sonic fanbase annoying though is that they mostly are negative toward the games with subjective flaws instead of the games with objective ones. For example, Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic 06 are both terribly designed games, but they’re not nearly as hated as games like Sonic Lost World Wii U.
I would comment on Pokémon posts on Facebook that I‘ll just play the older games and play a real Pokémon experience and then people would tell me that I have no intelligence. It’s stupid.
While they should have been nicer to you, I can get where they're coming from, especially in the post was about someone enjoying something. Saying "I'm going to play a real pokemon game" is rude in its own way. You should have just kept it at I'm going to play the old games because I enjoy those more.
Like I wanna try some of the games but the fanbase is just too toxic. Especially what happened at the game awards which I am a genshin fan even I got at least one or two death threats which just made me decided to not play the newer sonic games and just stick to the older ones
Lots of your fellow GI fans say mainly on a post I saw on Twitter that it would only win because they get free stuff so don't act like only the Sonic fanbase is in the wrong and it literally was confirmed bots were used.
Not being ok with other on some subject should not be that of a issue. I would go to as far to say, it's a pretty cool thing, if you can't reach to someone with your opinion, then it actualy doesn't matter that much I guess
I'm more than a bit late here, but hiding under all that Twitter drama is a decent video making a salient point that I've long agreed with. I spent a solid chunk of my formative years on the mothership--the SEGA forums themselves, and yes there is absolutely some level of regret here--and the type of toxicity outlined here was endemic to the Sonic board. Hell, it probably still is, since I left years ago and my mental health has been way better for it. While I'm definitely on the side that thinks Frontiers is legitimately great (and I definitely find all this crap about how it's a steaming pile of shit because of issues inherent to Switch as it's lowest common denominator system played out at best), it's still a Sonic game. It's gonna be full of jank, and jank isn't for everyone. Sonic Team do have a solid foundation under all that jank that really should be worked on; it's a refreshing take on Sonic even with its warts and deserves more refinement to make something truly special. Unfortunately, and this is where the point I made in my thread on Twitter comes in to play, people have become so polarised that nuance is all but impossible, especially when an otherwise great topic is behind a title that really fails to do it justice. I'm glad I gave this video a shot, but others won't even do that. Unfortunate side effect of being chained to algorithms that reward bait and controversy.
This is why I distance myself from the sonic fandom I know that Pokémon shouldn’t be excused for scarlet and violet but I’ve seen people who compare this to sonic 06 which is fair enough but when you start bashing people who like the game that’s going too far TLDR; don’t join fanbases and respect people’s likes and dislikes
While I do agree with the things you say in this video, I do think there are certain situations where one side is clearly in the right and/or wrong. Lucky for us, Sonic Frontiers is clearly not a dumpster fire. And I mean that in a technical sense. Sure, some people might think it's terrible on a technical level, but those people are just wrong. So, there is not really any right or wrong opinion here. Liking Sonic Frontiers is something about personal preference and Sonic Team CLEARLY put a lot of passion and work into the product. I do think though that there are situations where positivity towards a certain product should be shamed and somewhat attacked. Why? Well, it's all a matter about how much the companies behind the products respect their consumer base and how good the product in question is on a technical level. To get a bit more specific, I am talking about Pokemon Scarlet/Violet. Is it wrong to enjoy these games? No, not really, though it is questionable. But is it wrong to defend a big company which does nothing but spit on their consumer base while throwing tons of cash at them? I do think that is wrong. Pokemon Scarlet/Violet released in a state which COULD be considered a scam and, in my opinion...people who willingly support scam products are just straight up wrong. If you buy something for 60€/$, it should be worth 60€/$. If we compare Scarlet/Violet to something like Xenoblade 3, it's just pathetic and I DO think that people who defend this garbage should be mocked in public.
Idk if you like Star Wars, but if you do, then you know toxic negativity is also a huge problem there as well. Say anything positive about the Sequels, and you will get harassed just like how Sonic fans will be upset if you say anything positive about the Meta Era.
Well good thing that Sonic Frontiers is more polish and more fun than Scarlet and Violet because Sega actually had more care on Sonic Frontiers than what game freak and the Pokemon company is doing with Scarlet and Violet on how much of a buggy mess the game can be
Recently I saw Sonic Fans vs Genshin Impact Fans... God... This is one of the reasons why I left the gaming community. I feel sorry for Jim Sterling, Dunkey, TelekinesticMan. Watch Sonic Fantears Review, Why The Genshin Impact Fandom Is Extremely Toxic... It's a great video.
unrelated but the switch is a very inferior system, i do why people still buy them other than the fact Nintendo only releases games on their consoles when they're honestly not even all that comparable to the Xbox One S and PS4
All fanbases are toxic, not just Sonic's, if you take any hardcore fan community you will have the same response. and to come back Yes I loved Sonic Frontiers, as I loved a lot of 3D and 2D Sonic because for me there are very good games.
Some sonic fans go insane when Someone says “I like super Mario” and the harass them for it like wth let people enjoy different things.
@slsksksks what do you mean about Sonic fans Harassing Mario fans
Ikr like when i say goku made sonic powerful they be like “umm actually what about dark sonic🤓” when dark literally is a fssj version of sonic
Wait really? Because I have the exact opposite problem People would harass me for liking sonic and say I must hate mario if I like sonic
@@RaiginAnimator well idk. i guess every fandom have toxic fans
I personally love Sonic and Mario, but Sonic more. If I said anything about Mario to a twitter or Reddit ima be cooked
Twitter is the problem, always has been the problem, and always will be the problem.
That and sonamy fans...but why split hairs?
@@HEMPHILL23no definitely not.
I think this all stems from how Sonic has been treated since Sonic 06. So when a game like Sonic Frontiers comes out and exceeds a lot of people's expectations, Sonic fans (myself included) tend to get over the top sometimes with defending a Sonic game when critics have actual constructive criticism towards it. Sonic Frontiers isn't perfect, but it's definitely one of my favorite Sonic games in a LONG time
Ehhhhh the only problems were just the pop ins but everything else was just 8.9/10 for me
Sonic Frontiers is not good. And this is one of the reasons why the majority of the sonic fan boys are toxic.
Most people give actual criticisms of the sonic Frontiers game.
@@raphaelbrown6314 everything else was not 8.9/10
@@firestrikerii810You didn't even provide an argument
Toxicity in this community is honestly some of the worst I’ve ever seen in a community, while I’ve seen other communities with pretty bad toxicity like the Kirby or Crash communities this is kinda on a whole other level, and this recent toxicity is kinda getting in my head and making me think deeper than I really should. When I saw Pokémon Scarlet and Violet footage come out I won’t lie and say I really just bashed it but never compared it to other series, just not happy with what the state it was released in since i’m not a fan anymore from what they’ve been doing recently. Then seeing others compare it to Frontiers just looked desperate to make their game look better than it was I love Frontiers but I won’t lie and say their aren’t major flaws. I just want this community to be fully wholesome where everyone can be peaceful and not make a big deal about a single opinion that goes for other communities to but I guess we can only dream.
I agree with this, i know this game has its clear problems, a weak final arc, pop in, elder kokos level up system, some camera bugs at times. I think its pretty iffy, but im glad that i can see this game wants to be more and most things can be fixed in updates. But even if the game is the best thing we have in a while, keeping your mind open is a good thing.
The RWBY Community would like a word with you especially r/RWBY, they're the worst and true scums.
I've never seen anything toxic revolving around the Kirby and Crash fandoms.
My criticisms for Frontiers are:
•pop in(obviously)
•Cyberspaces wonky controls
•the ending was weird and only raises questions than answers
But that's it besides that it's a good game that deserves a sequel.
Wait kirby fanbase is toxic?
Then again, this is just the Twitter portion of the fan base. There are perfectly fine people who don't use toxic apps.
definitely lmao
Idk, what apps would you recommend? I mean I use other social media apps besides Twitter and I don’t use Twitter anymore these days.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 best place I’ve seen is just the yt comments, I haven’t seen that much toxic people
Who in their right mind would deliberately use Twitter?
@@SonicHedgehog1991 I do but for legitimate reasons, ie:promote my stuff and speak to content creators and studios directly that I like.
This is NOT just on Twitter. This happens all over social media. YT comments,, Discord and Reddit. I've never used Twitter, just UA-cam and I've been harassed for disliking the Cyberspace levels, loving the WereHog combat and hating Sonic Colors. Even been called a pedo for liking Genshin Impact. I've gotten a comment recently from someone saying that I should be killed for liking Genshin. And this was on YT. Also, the reason why Toxic positivity is point out a lot is because it's been more common in the last recent years. Jebtube even talked about it in his recent Sonic video called Sonic fan tears review.
Someone in both fandoms, I guess it was a good choice for me to keep distance from the sonic community for a while, although the genshin community is also not perfect to stay in at least they barely bring up the Game Awards and probably forgot about it at this point
People are getting harassed for not liking the Mario movie too, they’ll have genuine issues with it and then people say “it’s okay to have shit takes” or “bro has never played Mario 💀💀💀😂😂😂”
@@SNESJerry I'm aware of that.
It's so annoying on how people get so butt hurt just because of others not agreeing with the popular/majority opinion.
@@Keyblade_welder_13 I posted my opinion and just had to delete it about sonic frontiers and some of them already act like I’m saying facts and not opinion… they acting like smart asses and it’s so annoying, sometimes I feel embarrassed being in the sonic community..
@@infinitoknight6577 I hear ya. It's insane how offended people get over just a different opinion. Honestly, Sonic fans have been getting spoiled lately. Ever since the first movie came out and it's been getting to their heads.
I get that Sonic fans are tired of the franchise getting heated, but that's no excuse at all.
No franchise is perfect.
The whole game awards thing from last year was when I decided I want nothing to do with the fandom.
It doesn't matter if Genshin fans were using bots or not, the only thing that matters is that the Sonic fanbase started it.
THEY provoke'd them.
Especially when they decided to be racist towards the Chinese side of the Genshin community.
They punched first and got karma real good.
Everyone is intited to their opinion, regardless of what the majority thinks.
After the Game Awards incident yeah The Sonic Fanbase just got into another new low
Toxic negativity is more common in the sonic fandom imo
The irony of this video is that I found it because someone posted it as an obnoxious tweet dunking on you for daring to claim Sonic fans have an issue with toxic positivity. It's not uncommon for these people to blatantly exhibit the very behaviour that these statements are criticising in their own rebuttals, it's embarrassing. I've seen someone state that they "hate anyone who shits on Sonic", in case the gate-keeping and toxic positivity needed to be made any more clear.
Anyway, thank you for promoting a balanced discourse where anyone is able to share their opinion without fear of harassment. It's not fun and should never be encouraged or enabled, especially from those with large followings.
Well said. Hopefully, we can just respectfully agree & disagree with opinions because the knee jerk reaction attacks are just tiring. Anyways, great video and hope you get to 1K subs soon!
Thanks a lot! the knee jerk reactions are super annoying to deal with and its basically the same argument every time, and it repeats all over with each new sonic game announced. Its just tiring at this point for sure.
THANK YOU. This is a perfect video. You basically said everything I said in my video exactly, which I appreciate. I wish the toxic positivity wasn't the only one being called out because both sides are just as problematic and honestly toxic negativity itself is arguably worse because you're trying to shut down happiness which is a nicer feeling than anger. I wish Sonic fans would realize that because honestly toxicity is my only issue with the fanbase as it stands.
Toxic positivity and negativity is a huge problem in the entire gaming community tbh
I gotta call bull on scarlet and violet because pokemon has less of an excuse to have bugs like this mainly because legends arceus exists, that game was a first step for pokemon and was still a smash hit and serves as the template of scarlet and violet, and pokemon itself often don't have bugs or glitches. And frontiers has more of an excuse to be like this. (not unexcused whats broken is broken and needs to be fixed) because the open zone is a new concept so they are not going to get everything right on the first try. And yes there are issues that don't involve the pop in and jank. The rails , Platforms, dashpannles, and springs can me annoying and an issue when you just want to run in the open zone. And having a small to medium momentum so you can run up any wall seem like a no duh thing to add.
let me tell u something, the ONLY SONIC TWITTER fanbase that is not toxic is the sonic meme community
I'm glad you addressed this situation because this has been recent for the past week seeing people getting haressed based on their opinion Pokemon fans and Sonic Fans arguing back and forth has really become a mess in the gaming community. Even though I really enjoyed my time with Frontiers I'm probably not going to be engaging in the hype cycle for the next Sonic game because it is just that bad. I've moved on from Sonic Forces and it's just mediocre at best not the worst thing in the world and I'm happy people like you can get enjoyment out of the game. Also keep up with your videos 👍
I really like Sonic Forces it was the first Sonic game I played and it means a lot to me but people just like to clown at others for liking a specific game that they hate I'm at the point where I just don't care I love Sonic and the entire franchise's history but I hate video game companies and their fanbase/supporters.
The biggest issue ultimately stems from not having a new game for 5 years, and it's a battle that has unfortunately transformed into this forced generalization of young fans VS old fans. Sonic fans that were 12 years old when Forces came out are now 17. They went through middle school and high school without a single new mainline game. They were too young to have a mature enough conscience to understand why older fans (like myself) were upset with the state of the franchise because they went through such a large part of their adolescence virtually having nothing new, which was not the norm prior to 2017. There was something new just about every year. So now, you have a bunch of these 17 year olds running rampant on Twitter fostering a bunch of their opinions based on their own experience about the franchise that are founded upon the basis of NOT having anything new for 5 years straight, and it ultimately is leading these "toxic positive" fans into accepting that ANYTHING new must automatically be good. I wouldn't call it so much as "toxic positive" fans, rather, Sonic Brand Loyalists. I don't personally put all the blame on these types of fans because it's ultimately SEGA's fault for producing virtually no new content for as large a franchise as Sonic for THAT long.
I've been a part of this fanbase for 15 years- since 2007- and I truly think that's where a lot of these wars about the state of Sonic stem from. Granted, not every young fan acts this way of course. But I was a young fan once. I personalized Sonic as part of my own identity during an age where I was still trying to find my own. I defended Sonic Boom for God's sake. It's something that younger fans do in just about every fanbase, but it's specifically exemplified with Sonic more than the average fanbase because Sonic appeals to a wider age range. I do think Twitter as a whole also exemplifies these issues because of the very nature of how "soapbox-y" the platform tends to be and how much the "L + ratio" culture has taken over, and I think this is also an issue that the OLDER fans tend to do as well. It's all about "who has the better opinion for the franchise."
The older fans, however, the ones deemed "toxic negative", tend to have a more pessimistic view of the franchise because of how THEY grew up perceiving Sonic. They aren't as willing to accept change because they hold the version of Sonic they remember loving so tightly and don't want to let go.
With all of this being said, I don't like these sorts of generalizations about groups of people in the fanbase that we've all been subjected to generalizing in the first place. There SERIOUSLY needs to be a compromise from everyone in the fanbase if we TRULY want to have more healthy discussion, and it MUST go beyond these generalizations of who is "toxic positive" and who is "toxic negative", who is young, who is old, who's an Adventure fanboy or Classic Elitist.
There's no unity because everyone is constantly fighting over what makes Sonic successful in the first place when at the end of the day, we all love this franchise.
You know it really bothers me you spent so much time talking about not generalizing Sonic fans and yet you kind of just did that with younger fans... so I'm going to do the same here
Personally find the older "hardcore" fans to be more obnoxious because they bring so many expectations for what the series should look like they're inevitably disappointed instead of just accepting the game as it is for better and worse. Always trying to compare it to older titles even if they have entirely different gameplay loops or design philosophy
Idk maybe it's just me growing up with everything from Sonic Heroes up til Sonic Unleashed, but I've always been fine with the games playing different from each other. The thing that made me start to move away from the series was redundancy in the boost formula and older sonic fans complaining about every new release not being as good as [Insert favorite Sonic game]. By the time I first saw footage of Forces, I was already feeling pretty burnt out on the fandom and series
Btw I don't say any of this to be mean and it's great Sonic fans love this series so much, but I don't think some fans who have grown up playing most of the games realize how toxic and insufferable their "critiques" can be when all pooled together
This is why I try to respect others' opinions because I feel like I've just let my loved ones down when I'm toxicly positive or negative to someone on the internet. I don't support either stance, and their just leading us down a path we shouldn't be going on. If someone has a complaint, as ridiculous as it may seem, just let them voice it out and try to understand where they're coming from. They aren't just Sonic haters, they want the best for the series. We all just have different opinions on what Sonic should be, and that is completely okay. Reasonable discussions are almost impossible to have with this big issue flowing throughout the fanbase. I haven't really had much of an issue with it recently, but that doesn't make it a non-factor. I don't know if we'll ever get this issue resolved, probably not completely. Toxic people are real, and they are out there waiting to attack their next victim. I'm usually positive when it comes to this franchise which can lead me to be toxicly positive when I don't mean to. I just wish the best for any fans out there who are suffering constantly from this issue. I've been through your pain. 🙏🏻
This whole toxic positivity/negativity thing is so dumb honestly. Trying to isolate toxicity into these positivity/negativity groups only makes it harder to look at the bigger picture and if not that, it's completely pointless. Toxic positivity and toxic negativity are like water and juice. Yes they are both different, but they are still both liquid. Toxic positivity and toxic negativity are technically different, but in essence they are both the same thing: toxicity. The issue with Sonic discussion is toxicity, period. The sooner the community realizes this, the better.
Although I think there’s nothing wrong with being positive or negative, regardless of which camp you fall into you should never criticize someone simply for having a different opinion.
this is very true
agree
My personal issue with a lot of discussion is simply objective misinformation being spread, which can muddy actual evaluation and accessibility going forward. One can like or dislike a game as much as it's the case, but one should always try to be accurate about what one says. It happens far too often that I hear people push issues that flat out don't exist onto games or people ignore issues because of false perceptions along the lines of Frontiers being a 7/10 automatically meaning it sucks.
To be constructive, one needs to have a proper understanding of what is broken, what isn't and how one can build upon what is there. Nitpicks are important, but so is getting the broad strokes right.(Like how Unwiished does not actually force motion. Or that Sonic Team did not make Boom.)
This is why i keep my fanfics to myself instead of sharing it to the fanbase. They're mad toxic. Specially with their head-canon timelines & their OC's 😓 Also we have more trolls in sonic fanbases than actual sonic fans themselves. 😓😓
I give Sonic Forces 1.5/10
I'll give Sonic Frontiers 7.5/10, from what i'm experiencing so far.
SO I saw that someone was talking shit on Twitter and got scared when your account got tagged lmao. Naturally, I had to look up this video and was surprised to see that how mature (and as such, ironic considering) this video really was. If you really are 15, you're a hell of alot wiser than most kids your age, let alone a video game fandom. Keep it up kid 👍 you'll be going places if you're this good already
A lot of sonic fanboys are in denial, they over looked the games massive issue like the pop in, and praise the game. As a sonic fan I can honestly say its average, not worth the full price tag. But it is very annoying hearing people saying this is the best game in a long time, at this point the fanboys are accepting the bear minimum. I don't understand why the fanboys are going after reviewers who dont like the game, why do they care soo much they should shut up and enjoy their game. Why are they looking at reviews in the first place? They already bought the game???
You made some valid points in your video. I've seen people have ignorant reasons for harassing people which not only makes them idiots but increases the toxicity even more. It's an endless cycle. Thank God I felt Twitter cuz of how they act. Very good vid, my dude 😎👍😉
Actually a very well put together video on the topic. I love when content creators can discuss a problem in a community without coming off as bias. Keep it up dude! :)
5:06 Yeah, that was corny.
But leaving that aside, toxicity, both positive and negative, is a very serious problem that the fanbase has been dealing with for many years and to be fair, many fanbases have also suffered from this type of problem, to a greater or lesser extent.
Currently, the franchise is taking a new direction that many say will be good, but that will bring a new wave of new fans that will inevitably bring new debates.
idk if it was because how you worded it but you made a point to make it like 70% an attack on toxic positivity, then turned the video around to make it also on toxic negativity which is way worse
because people were enjoying the game or looking forward to it and just being attacked
from a twitter and youtube front, there was far far more negativity, especially when they saw people being positive,
people played the demo and loved it -
“those weren’t sonic fans”
“those were just casuals”
“more people played it and loved it-
“ they aren’t hardcore fans”
“they were paid”
reception leading to release was 90% good and the toxic negativity side couldn’t accept it
i will agree that the toxic positivity was there too
From my experience there has been far more talk about toxic positivity, and my goal is to call each one out equally. I have no bias to either side as I think both are just as bad
@@Daviron i do
agree both are bad
and i tend to avoid both sides when it comes to twitter (as you mentioned in your video )
but speaking from a youtube standpoint, it’s far negative
(i won’t dare shoutout the 2 big channels that have been nothing but toxic negative , as a sonic fan who know just who i mean )
i do understand both sides
toxic positivity comes from a longing of wanting a good game despite and while ignoring the flaws
toxic negativity is nitpicking everything under the guise of being “cautiously optimistic”
are there points to both sides ?
yes and no
Sonic fans got Dunkey trending for comparing user scores from Frontiers to way better games, saying "they're different franchises and shouldn't be compared" or how "mean spirited it was towards those who enjoyed Frontiers".
Not even a week later, those same Twitter Sonic fans bitch and moan about the new Pokémon game having a higher metascore than Frontiers
You can't make this shit up🤦🏾♂️
Let's Just Say The First Teaser Lead To A All Out War. It Was Such A Sad Time For The Fan Base.
Bro as an anime fan, souls fan, persona fan, and Sonic fan. I'm dead inside with the toxicity it's all I know at this point lol.
I said Sonic 06 was *personally* more enjoyable *to me* than Sonic Omens. Some dude got so pissed. I... think some of you may know who I'm referring to.
Lmao
Let me guess it was some guy with a Brazilian flag as pfp named leonardo
@@whowasinparis2618 Yeah that's him
I'll say it here because why not:
There's been a weird obsession with calling things "toxic negativity" or "toxic positivity" and honestly I don't get it. While I personally have been watching from afar and have my own biases, it's just become a weird culture in general. When the very first IGN video dropped of Sonic Frontiers, I couldn't escape the "it's another trash game" mentality, and that was generally how people felt until the demos started and people actually got to play it. And even then, I'd say negativity was still a big part of it. Being "toxic" with these things usually means trying to force someone to feel a certain way, and this doesn't really happen often enough for how often people speak of it. Honestly, I think people try to categorize too much to blame a certain group of people and ignore the actual users who are rude, aggressive, and disrespectful. Generalizations like this are more often than not harmful, and now people will call the sonic fanbase this or that due to less than 1% of the fanbase. That's more of a Twitter issue and not Sonic specific though. There are lots of problems in the Sonic community, but toxic negativity and toxic positivity aren't really one of them.
I think the comparisons to Pokémon, while misguided and/or for laughs, do highlight something. No one in their community is like "This is toxic positivity! This game is broken and we shouldn't reward game freak with our praise and money. " they're not doing the opposite either, they're just stating their opinions and discussing it. They certainly have bigger issues all across the board, but they handle them in a regular way by arguing and discussing them instead of framing certain people or attitudes as a problem the fanbase exudes. And I think that's for the better really, people are too attached to words to call people or explain certain phenomena. But at the end of the day, certain people are just rude and others want a reaction. Just wish we didn't give them it.
I know this comment is months old. But I just wanna say this. This comment screams to me that you've been living under a rock. Because this has been a problem for about a decade now. All the way back from the Sammiethesonicfan's (I think that's what his username was called.) days from the late 2000s. Where their's been major discourse from the sonic fanbase since many sonic fans would just endlessly defend any sonic game from any shred of community.
@@droolbug1891Yeah that's just called being a toxic fan, it's not unique to Sonic stfu
not only sonic fanbase that do this kind of trend by spreading blind hate toward a game they didn't even play, its how those kind of people get digest by sonic never good term by media. When internet used to bash the franchise many times its understandable there is alot of toxic positivity in fanbase to make themself feel better about the franchise. Its truly rough franchise, but i can understand why they want to defend it. Sonic fanbase is the one that get damaged by all of this in the end.
I love sonic forces
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!! Very well made and highlight a gigantic issue in the sonic community.
You're 15 an already more mature than those people on Twitter
But isnt majority of sonic twitter little kids tho? Ofc he's more mature
@@hashi. no they are manchildren most of them
well spoken. I brought this up in an earlier video of my own, but Sonic discourse was the WORST with Frontiers. the worst it's been in a very long time, and it's because of these two groups.
Wait a video about calling out the sonic community's toxicity that isn't biased 🤯🤯🤯
Honestly most toxicity is on twitter, and most weird art is on deviant art, which is the case with most franchises.
The Sonic fanbase kinda just mixed legitimate critcism and biased criticism into 1 thing and will just harass anything that they think is the natural flow of the franchise
Sonic in general is a lost cause including its fandom
At this point i don't care what they're whining about it's what they do 24/7
Wasn't the Sonic fandom always toxic ever since the 90s
Screw opinions we should only like Sonic Generations and old Sonic with Mania, that’s most Sonic fans now .
Great Video! I 100% agree with your points, people shouldn't react so adversely over different opinions.
Hope you get to 1000 subs!
I think I already know why the Sonic fan base has a problem from just saying two words: Deviantart and Sonichu.
People who think toxic positivity is even remotely equal to toxic negativity are lying to themselves. How many times does a group of people shitting on reviews that praise Frontiers to oblivion, and how many times do you a see a group of people bring upset about a "unfairly" negative review?
“Oh jeez that might be the corniest thing I’ve ever said on camera”
What camera? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Let's not forget somebody got doxxed because they said they liked sonic frontiers before it came out
I got roasted for saying i love sonic 4 and forces by people saying mania and generations are far better and my opinions are trash and i have low standards and im the problem with the sonic fanbase ect.
I now have a huge distaste for mania and generations due to those games Association with that event. I can't even play them now without getting mad.
Which causes me to double down on being in the minority when it comes to defending shadow, forces, 4, cyberspace, lost world, werehog ect. Which then causes the cycle to continue.
Thank you somebody said it both sides are terrible i get that the toxic positive side is bad but i like how rare the toxic negative side gets brought up heck i love scarlet and violet right now and i know it's problems but i can see its flaws and not saying it's perfect where there is no such thing as perfect i mean when you look at it it's more then a sonic or pokemon fanbase problem every fanbase has these types of people
Someone wise once said the sonic fanbase are beaten dogs and truer words couldn't have been spoken. An even larger issue i think is all the people with nostalgia goggles on still dismissing anything new that isn't exactly like the games they grew up with like for example a large portion of adventure fans. Criticism for a lot of sonic games nowadays most of the time feels very invalid and more subjective. People still use the word momentum wrong and act like momentum isn't in every title when it is.
I feel like the problem is a mainly Twitter thing and since most things suck on Twitter I just avoid the app.
But I do think it’s a problem since I see this problem pretty often especially when dumpster diving on Yt.
Its ok to like the games, but you are allowed to have an opinion. So as long as you arn't hurting anyone. I know I don't like being around people like there. If you can enjoy the games, then good for you, you are the bigger person who finds enjoyment.
I even enjoy Sonic Forces.
It’s a shame that some people can’t see that the game have flaws. All games have flaws and saying that it’s okay for it to have popins but, it’s not okay for Pokémon Scarlet and Violet. Yeah. Finally a really fun Sonic game.JUST ENJOY THE GAME!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
all criticism is fine and acceptable but it has to be REASONABLE and not be "this game isn't what sonic was during THIS game so it's bad"
same with complaints about a story, make actual points instead of pointing at another game and saying "it should be like this"
if you dislike something explain the problems, please do, you think the combat is boring because of how it slows down the traversal? ok fine.
you think the combat is bad because sonic shouldn't have combat at all and be just like adventure and heroes? not fine
I know most of the time the people say that the Sonic community are toxic despite I don't spend much time with the Sonic community itself but, actually, the only time that I was witness of their toxicity and get a bad experience with their toxic behavior, it was in the Hedgehog Engine Discord server. I was looking for a partners for give me a hand for the modding into Sonic Frontiers since I have still somes issue into the modding when I create my own mods so I accept any kind of help, even from those who are new but know a bit more than me, for give me somes good tips and check an eye into my own mods. However nobody answer me because they was too much focus to talk about a sort of drama story about a user who get banned or something but I didn't pay too much attention about it since it's none of my business.
However, one week later, I notice nobody answer my question due to talk too much about their drama story so, when I have try to ask the same question again by wonder if this time they will notice my question, I meet somes kiddo from the admin/moderators who threatened to ban me if I spam the same question because they though I was a bot or a scam and I have nicely say without be vulgar and by stay calm that I'm into their server because I was searching for someone for give me a hand into the modding since somes people advices me the Hedgehog Engine server if I wanted somes help about the modding for those last Sonic games unless it's my fault and that I'm not in the good server for talk and ask about modding tips and help so, somes times later, I notice I get banned from Hedgehog Engine server. Maybe because I wasn't toxic for them unlike those dude who was throw insult and salty comment to someone for one week without they get banned until they change conversation so, even if I like somes Sonic games, I confirm the community can be toxic and it even contaminate the modding community as well so, since this accident who happend somes month ago, I can say I don't appreciate too much the Sonic community. I know everyone isn't like that but it still sad though so I don't advice for anyone to go to the Hedgehog Engine server except if you really want to meet somes people with a big toxic behavior.
Look, just because I'm glad that I bought Sonic Frontiers for 60 dollars and dodged a bullet with Pokemon Scarlet and Violet dosn't mean that I don't fully have no problems with Sonic Frontiers either. It could of used at least another year of development to get some of the jank out and fix that pop in issue. But it still has more polish to it than Pokemon Scarlet and Violet though... The fact that it was made by 60 people is still impressive, but the Sonic franchise has room to grow...
I think sonic forces is pretty mid, but the modding community makes it such a special game tbh cuz it doesn't get a lot of attention unlike gens
I honestly think that toxic negativity is a heck of a lot more damaging to the Sonic series than toxic positivity.
Every fandom: First time?
I'm not gonna hold you the thumbnail/title is really inflammatory and is attracting a lot of negative attention to the video. I'd highly suggest changing it so the discourse can remain healthy.
That being said, I agree with a lot of the points you said. I'd also like to add that the moment criticism is framed in a way that insults the devs/fanbase it crosses the line. The moment you say that fans are "settling for mediocrity" or SonicTeam is incompetent (by comparing them to fan/indie games) I start tuning you out.
The Sonic fanbase is like the Spider-Man fanbase, except not as bad. Both fanbases have toxic positivity and negativity. The Spider-Man fanbase has so much toxic positivity toward the Raimi films and annoyingly overuse the memes. And they carry so much toxic negativity toward the MCU ones to the point where they flat-out lie with their criticisms, like the “no consequences” BS argument. The main reason why I find the Spider-Man fanbase so much worse than the Sonic fanbase is because I can’t relate or understand their viewpoints at all. I have not found a single major argument and criticism from Spider-Man fans that either doesn’t sound stupid, flawed, hypocritical, or just flat-out wrong. Also, I find critiquing movies to be far more subjective than critiquing video games. What makes the Sonic fanbase annoying though is that they mostly are negative toward the games with subjective flaws instead of the games with objective ones. For example, Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic 06 are both terribly designed games, but they’re not nearly as hated as games like Sonic Lost World Wii U.
Every fandom is toxic to some extent because a few bad eggs always ruin the entire basket. Never stick to anything
They can't even handle opinions on Sonic Unleashed
Godzilla fandom: Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!
@archerhayesstudio9752 why the Godzilla fandom
The roleplaying side of them are godawful.
I would comment on Pokémon posts on Facebook that I‘ll just play the older games and play a real Pokémon experience and then people would tell me that I have no intelligence. It’s stupid.
While they should have been nicer to you, I can get where they're coming from, especially in the post was about someone enjoying something.
Saying "I'm going to play a real pokemon game" is rude in its own way. You should have just kept it at I'm going to play the old games because I enjoy those more.
Like I wanna try some of the games but the fanbase is just too toxic. Especially what happened at the game awards which I am a genshin fan even I got at least one or two death threats which just made me decided to not play the newer sonic games and just stick to the older ones
Lots of your fellow GI fans say mainly on a post I saw on Twitter that it would only win because they get free stuff so don't act like only the Sonic fanbase is in the wrong and it literally was confirmed bots were used.
@@artistanthony1007 Your literally apart of the problem.
The fact king k got butthurt over this is kinda sad
Not being ok with other on some subject should not be that of a issue. I would go to as far to say, it's a pretty cool thing, if you can't reach to someone with your opinion, then it actualy doesn't matter that much I guess
Me:" im a longtime sonic fan i dont like anything!"
I'm more than a bit late here, but hiding under all that Twitter drama is a decent video making a salient point that I've long agreed with.
I spent a solid chunk of my formative years on the mothership--the SEGA forums themselves, and yes there is absolutely some level of regret here--and the type of toxicity outlined here was endemic to the Sonic board. Hell, it probably still is, since I left years ago and my mental health has been way better for it.
While I'm definitely on the side that thinks Frontiers is legitimately great (and I definitely find all this crap about how it's a steaming pile of shit because of issues inherent to Switch as it's lowest common denominator system played out at best), it's still a Sonic game. It's gonna be full of jank, and jank isn't for everyone. Sonic Team do have a solid foundation under all that jank that really should be worked on; it's a refreshing take on Sonic even with its warts and deserves more refinement to make something truly special.
Unfortunately, and this is where the point I made in my thread on Twitter comes in to play, people have become so polarised that nuance is all but impossible, especially when an otherwise great topic is behind a title that really fails to do it justice. I'm glad I gave this video a shot, but others won't even do that. Unfortunate side effect of being chained to algorithms that reward bait and controversy.
this is happening to the fnaf fandom aswell
This is why I distance myself from the sonic fandom I know that Pokémon shouldn’t be excused for scarlet and violet but I’ve seen people who compare this to sonic 06 which is fair enough but when you start bashing people who like the game that’s going too far
TLDR; don’t join fanbases and respect people’s likes and dislikes
@Khaled Shanshal it’s not a community it’s just a group of vicious dogs
While I do agree with the things you say in this video, I do think there are certain situations where one side is clearly in the right and/or wrong.
Lucky for us, Sonic Frontiers is clearly not a dumpster fire. And I mean that in a technical sense.
Sure, some people might think it's terrible on a technical level, but those people are just wrong.
So, there is not really any right or wrong opinion here. Liking Sonic Frontiers is something about personal preference and Sonic Team CLEARLY put a lot of passion and work into the product.
I do think though that there are situations where positivity towards a certain product should be shamed and somewhat attacked. Why?
Well, it's all a matter about how much the companies behind the products respect their consumer base and how good the product in question is on a technical level.
To get a bit more specific, I am talking about Pokemon Scarlet/Violet.
Is it wrong to enjoy these games? No, not really, though it is questionable.
But is it wrong to defend a big company which does nothing but spit on their consumer base while throwing tons of cash at them? I do think that is wrong.
Pokemon Scarlet/Violet released in a state which COULD be considered a scam and, in my opinion...people who willingly support scam products are just straight up wrong.
If you buy something for 60€/$, it should be worth 60€/$.
If we compare Scarlet/Violet to something like Xenoblade 3, it's just pathetic and I DO think that people who defend this garbage should be mocked in public.
Great video man, sonic community has a lot of problems this one definitely being one of them
Idk if you like Star Wars, but if you do, then you know toxic negativity is also a huge problem there as well. Say anything positive about the Sequels, and you will get harassed just like how Sonic fans will be upset if you say anything positive about the Meta Era.
Don't you mean the Heroes - Black Knight era?
We need toxic positivity to counter the huge amount of negative toxicity in this fan base
I literally saw you spam naming several people incels without even knowing what it means.
@@Nathan-rb3qp I know what incels are, incel means ugly guys who cant get girls cuz they ugly just like the sonic fan base
@@os9077 I'm not ugly. That's just a pic of me from 2 years ago.
@@Nathan-rb3qp You still ugly
1. Explain how you think I'm ugly.
2. Please stop deleting your comments to me.
Well good thing that Sonic Frontiers is more polish and more fun than Scarlet and Violet because Sega actually had more care on Sonic Frontiers than what game freak and the Pokemon company is doing with Scarlet and Violet on how much of a buggy mess the game can be
I think it might just be twitter in general
7:24p.m. 11/28/2022
All this combined with this community accepting mid or even shit fangames as peak because SEGA didn't make it, so its good by default
I thought you were going to address the problem in more detail. This is too superficial of a video in my opinion.
that fanbase is... much worse than gd twt
Recently I saw Sonic Fans vs Genshin Impact Fans... God... This is one of the reasons why I left the gaming community. I feel sorry for Jim Sterling, Dunkey, TelekinesticMan.
Watch Sonic Fantears Review, Why The Genshin Impact Fandom Is Extremely Toxic... It's a great video.
Its a bit funny that at the time of posting this comment, you're 252 subs away from 1000 now
unrelated but the switch is a very inferior system, i do why people still buy them other than the fact Nintendo only releases games on their consoles when they're honestly not even all that comparable to the Xbox One S and PS4
Zelda games
Don’t make comments, make videos. I don’t care how bad you are at making videos. Any discussion is better than nothing.
All fanbases are toxic, not just Sonic's, if you take any hardcore fan community you will have the same response.
and to come back Yes I loved Sonic Frontiers, as I loved a lot of 3D and 2D Sonic because for me there are very good games.