What an outstanding lecture. My wife suffered from Clinical Depression. She remained on Prozac until her death from metastatic breast cancer that went to her brain's left motor strip. What I found fascinating was during the nine years her "battled" the cancer, she became an outspoken political activist for Universal Health Care. During those nine years fighting cancer, she never suffered from a bout of depression but boldly addressed both her cancer and the USA's complex medical system to change. The cancer in her brain seemed to motivate Paula to a higher degree of positive functioning than anything else. It was very interesting to me and why I delved so deeply into neurobiology of human behavior in 2014. Thank you for this profound insight into Depression. I also referred back to the 2024 2nd Edition of Brain and Behavior by Eagleman and Downar. I highly recommend the book.
@@hulamei3117 She had a long time affair with Depression prior to her cancer diagnosis. Actually, her Cancer gave her a hardcore purpose toward medical advocacy at the political level that helped her depression during cancer treatment. Chemo did other things to her body but not the Depression. Go figure!
My mom died from metastatic breast cancer, long before I realized how to cure any disease with unprocessed foods. I solved the mystery of diseases by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
I solved it by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
It sure does. We do find ways to survive, but it can really feel like there's no way out. And it can absolutely be draining to have to constantly fight. ❤
I have felt like that before. I’ve been learning to focus on the positive things in my life First thing in the morning. It’s difficult to feel hopeless when I’m being thankful for the good things in my life. Just having food and shelter is truly a blessing. Some people don’t even have a safe place to sleep. The world has a whole lot of sadness in it but our planet and nature is extremely Beautiful!! Do you have a dog or cat? My cat has helped me a lot! Hang in there. Things will get better!💞
I totally see you. Longer periods or being depressed for years takes its toll and it is difficult to find things to be grateful for. I wish you that you can find hope. Unfortunately there are no words to say that can get through depressional bias, and it feels even more frustrating when people try to give you advice or are telling you to snap out of it (like mentioned in the video). Maybe Artifical Intelligence will have a better solution to depression. This is one of my hopes.
Well as one that suffers, this episode really touched a tender spot. I am very familiar with the "instant" depression. I often describe it as a wave washing over me or like window blinds being closed. It really is that quick. And most often, but not always, I am unaware of what triggered it. Fortunately my depressive episodes are not often and they are short lived. But early on they were long episodes, i.e. months and years. The last long episode was about a decade and was EXTREMELY dark. I ruminated on suicide constantly. At least every few minutes or so I would put a finger gun to my head and enact blowing my head off. Ironically my real choice of suicide, which I prepared, was hanging. I had a noose already prepared in my garage. And the really strange thing about is that is exactly how my older brother killed himself. I had lots of nightmares about that. Anyway, I do much better now and always tell people to take care of their mental/emotional health. Our society still has a long way to go of accepting mental health issues without judgment and to insist that insurance pay for the care.
@@yvonnealkemade5473 Don't worry if it's an official term. That's part of the problem with people as well. "Oh cool lets give this a name and latch it in to my sense of self!" Yeah, no...
@@Hunnna_Jay yeah, you're right. I think we've gone too far in diagnosing and analysing anyway. I think it's better for human beings being busy with growing food, or hunting or whatever. We think too much... At least I do! 😬
I suffered from debilitating depression for over 20 years. Experienced a severe concussion and haven't been depressed for a moment since! It's been 4+ years. I am so thankful!🎉😊
I had emergency surgery for a burst brain aneurysm. My recovery resulted in obtaining, not only a sense of humor (which I never had) , and Consciousness (not all at once) but a door was opened and blossomed over a period of years. My entire life has been altered through intense self reflection and observation. Would thesse changes have occurred without the aneurysm? I'm not sure, because I was a workaholic and for the first time in my life I was forced to take time off that allowed me to think deeply about many areas of long-term curiosity and interest.
All throughout my long life, I've experienced depression. Now, however, I've worked through all the reasons that created the depression. I have many theories on what creates depression - it's all from our misguided lives. Medication from pharmaceuticals never worked for me.
30 years treatment resistant, including TMS and ECT, and this is the first time I've heard of the concept of "folding". It resonates so much. I can virtually pinpoint the day my brain "gave up". Strangely this video has given me renewed optimism. Thank you.
19th February 1986. The day mine started. I can't quite believe it's so long ago now. Never saw it coming. In my opinion depression happens when the problem you encounter does not appear to have any form of solution but you cannot accept it as something you can live with.
Very much appreciated. I have dysthymia with recurring depressions for over 50 year. This summer I got a ketamine treatment. It made me feel much better for a few weeks, but it slowly stopped working. I was back where I started. It was disapointing, but it is good to know that deep down there, there is a better version of me waiting to come out some day, when the science has finaly arrived. Keep up the good work!
Until you have experienced severe physiological depression. Then you won't understand. These physiological effects are why you cant just snap out of it
alot of people experience minor effects but the pain can become intolerable. wildlife exploitation has led to alot more suffering as humans lack natural selection. its even causing alot of suffering towards animals and plants.
You can't snap out of it, you actually need to snap into all the thoughs and learn to process them correctly, Listen to J Kristnamurti Urgency Of Change podcasts
Exactly. It’s like the world has no color or hope or anything at all, it is absolutely full of emptiness, but the emptiness weighs on you like a thick sludge that won’t go away. Take care friend 🙏
I thought it was more shocking than disgusting. I’m a huge fan of David Eagleman and I was surprised I haven’t found it sooner, I was wondering if it was new?
Didn’t know what to expect, but gradually was drawn in feeling surprised. This contains powerful messages of hope and aligns with all my reflections on depression. Yes I have been consciously battling for 54 years a whole plethora of symptoms - almost all the symptoms mentioned in this video- arising out of this ailment, decades of psychotherapy, familial reconstructions, different spiritual sittings, group or individual therapy, psychoanalysis, picture work, EMDR, behavioral therapy, the list goes on. I’ve been to a homeopathic psychiatrist, neurologists, and several psychiatrists been put on fluoxetine, paroxetine, welllbutrin,, elontril and others. I am now for the last four years finally receiving a course of drug treatment on which I can reasonably rely. TMS (Transcranial magnetic stimulation), DBS (deep brain stimulation)?, but in particular societal realignments - a parallel was drawn in this video with controlling tuberculosis over a century ago - indeed gives me hope that progress is being made in coping with a peri-epidemic of depression. I also find the concept of “folding” to be very appropriate, to me though the strategy of freezing is very akin to that of folding. When I fold in my depression I also want to turn invisible, suicide being an extension of this.
Hormone decline. Testosterone specifically. I know it sounds crude but I dated a woman that was in the same situation as you and after we started having unprotected sex and I ejaculated inside her on a daily basis, she absorbed testosterone from my semen and it almost completely eliminated her mindset.
You can get back you just need to know more about your body , like vitamine difficieny your levels of hormones, then try to fix it with natural supplements .
I have no words to express how grateful I am that you are making these episodes and putting it all out there for everyone. This episode in particular. Thank you.
The distinction between reward and non reward circuits, their impact on rumination default mode and crucially, the use of tms to individually target each...the net result is not hyperbolically revolutionary, it is the missing link to break the deadlock state of a brain hopelessly at war with itself. Excellent!
I feel like the fight is unwinnable. . 61 yo and find myself out of work. My savings are very low and securing a job that doesn't hinder my chronic pain is near impossible. I don't know where I fit into this world. Every day I contemplate an exit plan. .
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression late August of this year. It was so bad at one point that my husband had to call on the priest to calm me down , I was so sad that I didn’t wanted to be in this planet no more and I was spinning down emotionally that I couldn’t even stand up 😢 7 days after my deepest point I started to feel better and is thanks to God. I did fasting, praying, walking daily and after every meals, eat clean ( ZERO SUGAR) drank only water, quit smoking/drinking stop drinking caffeine, and stop using the phone for approximately 2 months and finally I took my prescription medicine. All of that did 98% change in my life I feel better then ever! I strongly suggest to turn to God for healing and seek professional help. 🙏🏼💙✝️
I’m so excited to find this channel!! David Eagleman is one of my favorite people!! He’s taught me SO MUCH about my brain to help me understand how and why I was addicted to opioids. In knowing I was able to change my brain. Just knowing that I CAN change my brain was almost enough to help. David’s books have help me to change my thoughts and my life!!! A video of David and Sadhguru (it’s on UA-cam as well) discussing the brain was fascinating, seeing those two together helped me sooooo much. Both men helped change my life.
I've dealt with depression throughout my life, started in the second grade. The one thing I've come to understand, at least in my case, is the importance of self talk and understanding negative biases towards oneself. You can, to some degree, think yourself into and out of depression, you just have to understand thought processes. Those who suffer clinical or pathological depression you have my sympathies.
Depression is also linked from the gut to the mind. If u eat processed food, depletes minerals and vitamins from repairing the cells, destroying the energy factory, mitochondria
@@edwardlulofs444The American diet is seriously lacking. They are selling foods here that are banned in other countries. I think we need to get back to the basics and start cooking more Whole Foods.
@@CMoore8539 oh, yes, very true. I am learning that more every day. I am trying to eat more healthy. Giving up 99% of the foods in the grocery shop. I should cook more: I only cook oatmeal. For me, cooking is harder than calculus!?! 🥴
This is the first time that I'm hearing about depression being addressed as a brain illness. Thank you! This new point of view gives me additional tools I can use to look at this and cope with mild depression. I need to treat my brain better and feed it with behaviors that are good for it. Could you please put a reference to the research done to clinically depressed patients where they implanted electrodes in their brain and created a feed back loop using machine learning?
Look on UA-cam for David Eagleman and Sadhguru about the brain and mysticism. That one is absolutely fascinating learning spiritually and science together. Both helped me with addiction and everything that comes with that. I bet you’d find some useful information from it too!! 💙💙💙
The brain itself rarely is the cause - but it gets caught in a loop / congestion and needs to be helped out of it. The cause still needs to be addressed as well.
@@BrianMcGuire-u5s I was addicted to benzodiazepines. They were extremely hard to get off of. I am not saying that people shouldn't take them, but always follow your doctor's advice.
Please don't recommend benzos. They are a temporary solution and create a lot more problems in the long run. Actually, they destroy your gaba receptors. I know from personal experience how difficult they are to get off. The metabolites have a very short half life & make them very addictive. Your body will need more and more to produce the same effect even if you are taking them as prescribed. They literally almost took my life permanently. My doc put me on them in '08 and it took me 4 excrutiating years to get off of them. They physically change your brain chemistry & you can't just quit taking them. Gran mal seizures are very real when discontinuing them. It felt like I had Parkinson's or Ms coming off that horrible class of drug. Not a week or a month, it took me years & the grace of God to get off benzos & feel somewhat normal again. I wouldn't wish that nightmare on my worst enemy.
First time watcher here. So I am only 8:15 in and i jumped out of my seat (well, bed) when you mentioned that you co-wrote wrote ‘Brain and Behavior’! The 5th edition was one of my textbooks at Florida Institute of Technology! I LOVED that book and still have my copy! Sometimes I randomly think about things I learned from that book and have the ‘aha’ moment all over again! I also use as a reference source sometimes. Now I’m even more excited to continue watching! 😊
Thank you for the deep update on understanding, treating and giving us Hope into why and hopefully preventing further cases of depression in the future. Although, knowing life is suffering, too. Thank you for your academic work and public education here 🙏🏼✨
I am an avid very widespread music fan as well as a very serious diet and exercise person, but I have suffered terribly with exactly what they’re talking about
I am an avid very widespread music fan as well as a very serious diet and exercise person, but I have suffered terribly with exactly what they’re talking about
Disconnected from nature, in particular full-spectrum sunlight, plus tons of blue light from our electronic devices after sunset. Get outside. Leave your phone at home. Notice something beautiful every day. 🍁
Very articulate guest. He was quick to frame the answer in a comprehensible way, but he was also surprisingly careful with his phrasing to stay on the right side of what is solidly defensible. Very few people use language this carefully on a fluent basis while speaking extemporaneously, even from within a deep body of expertise.
Is it crazy to feel despair when I think about the consequences of environmental destruction, climate change, plastic accumulation in our bodies, brains, animals, everywhere, looking through the window and realizing the birds may not be there in the future for my daughter... or am I just crazy? Very interesting interview, Thank you!
It has nothing to do with craziness. When you're constantly focusing on bad things this can be a sign of depression or compulsive worrying. It doesn't help in having a good life for yourself and your daughter (nor does it help the birds 😅). I hope you find a way to deal with it!
It sounds like you are having some kind of "fugue' state. (I don't know what to call it. I'm not a psychologist) Most minds don't constantly worry about so many different things.
It depends how much you allow such thoughts to affect your day to day life, if your concerned but function normally then that’s fine, if it affects your mood then it’s not ok and you should seek help.
The fight is, for the common person, unwinnable indeed, and it’s built that way. But I think it’s a mixture of everything speculated on. There are so many things I bet could help with the depression issue.
Extremely intriguing, thank you!! I have Autism/ADHD and empath abilities. I masked my autism until a year ago and went through a 7 day rewiring that was intense. 2 places in my head have thought to speech my autism stutters and my adhd does not and I feel my autistic thoughts to speech feel different. So, I suffered from anxiety/panic disorder and depression my whole life until I unmasked. Although I did start taking Prozac because I was in a dark place during a meltdown, I can attest that when we do not self regulate our central nervous system properly, it will release as negative energies such as depression. Even though autism is gaining more attention it does not fix a bad situation for Level 1 autistics and that is inadvertent masking. This will lead to anxiety and depression in these individuals. We need to understand the problem lies on modern society, the fact that we have societal norms that dictate how you have to be as a human. That is the biggest issue. I don't learn by sitting in box to learn. Observation and listening at my pace and in my space is the way I learn and there is no limit to what I can do. I just wanted to add that I was on Paxil for over 25 years and weaned off it and that was hard it took 4 months but no bad anxieties or panic attacks. Also monotropic thinking and hyper focus can be problematic with depression as well which makes it even more of a potential internal conundrum to keep cycling. Just some thoughts that I feel and observe.👻🤪🌶🤘😎♾️
Excellent. Not many autistic people can share their experience and you sure can so I hope you hang in there with all the different therapies to help all of us do better with our thinking, which many of us is our weakest link to life
@GilbertGryfud-mu3zi my empath abilities are somewhat of a bonus. Just heard today that my great nephew is nonverbal and my 5 year granddaughter is level 2 but is starting to use words and I am trying to figure out what opened up my autistic voice because I want to try and help others if there is at least a chance then I remain hopeful. Thank you for the validation, which stands out in my mind as part of the solution as well as special interest and frequent social interactions with a transition set up to let them ease out of the monotropic thought process because it can be really upsetting. Anyway, thank you!!🙏👻🤪🌶🤘😎♾️
I first learned of David's Brain series in a social psych course. I have no idea why he is not more known here. Amazing stuff. I am looking for the series that he describes the flight or fight responce and basically a truama brain responce. Guess I have to watch them all again! I tell as many people as possible who like to learn!
Very helpful BUT you both ignore early childhood neglect, abuse, and loss when the brain is still forming. The degree of such trauma will effect people differently but getting childhood histories as we psychoanalytically informed clinicians are trained to do can help predict degrees of depression. Hormones are also involved because cortisol certainly effect the brain and oxytocin (the love hormone) can offset trauma. I hope a combination of depth talk therapy can be considered by you neuroscientists in conjunction with TMS. Mark Solms is a neuroscientist who is also a psychoanalyst as is Norman Doidge. They both have written fascinating books i recommend highly. And Ed Tronick studies infants and toddlers - his work is priceless. He can be found on youtube. Jane Hall
Great, fantastic episode, professor Eagleman. Spreading knowledge is already a giant step in creating better society conditions, in the sense you talked about tuberculosis and rates that drop. Hopefully it will happen with depression in a few decades. What to say? Thank you a thousand times🙏😊
Unfortunately I believe mental health issues will get MUCH, MUCH worse in the coming years. When society is faced with a MASSIVE epidemic where it actually starts to affect the pockets of the top one % only then will we see it being addressed correctly. Who even knows, humans are so dumb we will probably end up like in that movie “Idiocracy” 🤦🏻♂️
Per-catastrophic massive stroke, I had an OCD; insomnia, anxious, ritual habits and depression. (My blood clots wiped it away). Here is my combat-depression list: a) don’t do anything stupid, b) you can sit in a public place (library, mall, cafe, movie theater), c) seek help from a cognitive behavioral therapist, d) cry, cry and CRY, e) keep your journal handy, f) cry with your best friend or with your therapist, g) EXERCISE. Your depression is in your damage brain. Exercise may trigger an endorphins. Plus, your body may look fantastic. “Nature’s home-brewed opiates, endorphins are chemicals that act a lot like their medically engineered counterpart, morphine.”
I have family history of depression/suicide and grateful never had thoughts of suicude. My breast cancer journey 2022-2024 really heightened those feelings and emotions 😢 . I feel my brain was feeling the cancer before i was diagnosed that i had many emotional outbursts that seemed daily out of my control. Praise God for his strength 🙏 that anydat I didnt hear his word was unbearable.
I struggled with drug resistant depression for all of my life. I reached a crisis point about a year ago and told my doctor that I really could not go on like this. She put me on a ketamine program that eliminated my depression instantly. It was shocking. it definitely has some downsides, for one I don’t enjoy feeling “high“ and it has to be done every week. But my depression is completely gone and I’m trying to learn how to live a life without it. It’s the strangest thing to have had this unbearable weight on top of me my whole life, and I have it suddenly gone. It’s like learning to live all over again. I would love to hear your thoughts on this new treatment.
Ketamine indeed is a lifesaver for many people and thankfully it's being accepted more. I respond well to SSRI but follow the news stories on ketamine.
That is amazing! Good for you. I'm a longtime SSRIer. They work for me - trouble is a bit too well, haven't managed to come off them, though tried a few times.
@@Hunnna_Jay don't be ridiculous. Might as well say someone's a vitamin pill because they take them every day. "Gotta be determined" is exactly the sort of nonsense advice they mention doesn't work in this video.
So helpful. I got Covid which turned into long covid. It changed my life because I couldn’t think and was hard to take care of my needs. But I did with a wonky brain for almost couple of years. I lived alone. Now I moved to another town near my daughter. I’m a stranger in her well established active life. It’s really strange and I’m older which is different. The town having smaller changes are a good point.
29:20 Self-perpetuating feedback loop of depressing rumination (habitual negativity loop) 30:39 TMS Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation, - can stimulate underactive areas of courage and resilience, and (in different positiom of coils) can break up the habitual neural-firing loop of negativity. (e.g. introduces neuroplasticity into a more useful mindset). 32:32 Result: patients seem to cope more easily, and things don't upset them so much. Strengthening mental muscle for cognitive control, similar to what mindfulness meditation over a long time can do. 33:50 RTMS noninvasive stimulation to disrupt the negativity feedback loop (non reward attractor circuit) -- tot he point where the person can pull themselves out of the loop via cognitive control. We seem to be able to see how our brain is starting to ruminate but we don't get pulled into a loop; instead we can decide not to go there with our thoughts. Now we know how to disrupt the "hijacked motivational circuit to be in a depressed state" and turn it off!! NOTE TO SELF: I use a favorite mantra (song) to sing to disrupt the loop!! I wonder if my "humming" is doing what TMS does, but with sound? 40:50 implanted electrode can be engineered to disrupt 'negativity loops' just like a heart defibrillators works (kind of a brain defibrillator) NOTE TO SELF: Is there a defibrillator chip for those with epilepsy, Elon? What a fascinating update on help for depression. I'm of the view that meditation, breath techniques, and humming can conceivably provide just what chips hope do, and less invasive. There will one day soon be moral non-harm "encoding" in AI to insure our very tools don't hack our brains into pill popping depressives, thus eliminating the myriad of negative fear-based ads.
For more complex social skills if they are missing due to adverse childhood experience then no matter an antidepressant…if someone doesn’t know how to float or swim the antidepressant won’t help. We have to provide folks with context, conditions, opportunities to learn new skills, have new opportunities . In other words part of the problem is the “normal” to try and return to is still missing what is needed to avoid depression.
Depression is also feeling disconnected from the flow of life, distancing from affectionate relationships, not having community belonging and not feeling part of society. Part of the treatment should also focus on making people feel that they are part of a whole universe and that their life matters. Unfortunately the decline of religious beliefs also contribute to alienation and lack of meaning to life. Maybe one should also focus on improving the connectivity of the depressed brain with the environment. I guess that the solution is more than just restoring chemical balance and brain stimulation. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Much appreciate the time and effort.
In the entire 58 minutes, very little has been said about bad diet and little exercise. All these mental problems seem to have gotten radically worse since the 1970s or so. Obesity and things like diabetes have also increased. I know from personal experience, that since bettering my diet, I feel far less unhappy or nervous, than I used to feel.
Depression is a symptom of trauma. Psychiatry wouldn't exist if people realised that their depression is a normal repsonse to prolonged fear and rejection, something rife in society. Depression is a totally normal response to a sick society. It is in the interest of psychiatry to medicalise anything remotely normal
I agree! I only experience folding when people openly reject me. There are too many psychopathic narcissists in this world. In our families! I do that, I take care of myself and do not engage with these rude mean people. Who needs them? Not me! It is so hard to reach out and find new friends in a new area, when you don't know how people will behave. There will always be a narc in the group, wanting to take control and be the "alpha", whatever. I am sick of this. Why can't people just be chill and friendly? Is it me? Yes it is, because I am tall, beautiful, well balanced and a great conversationalist. These women are jealous, plain and simple. Men do not treat me this way. But there is a stigma in this society if a woman has a few male friends and is not married. I live like a nun! I have not dated for 20 years. I do care about my friends, but I have to be very careful who I spend time with. Even my doctor acts like he is stunned around me! Sheesh!
@@kathryngganderson8636 yes, stigma. Having to be "respectable", to play a pre-determined script in order to fit in to something that is only imagined. People can't be chill and friendly because they project their trauma and insecurity on others. The jealous type finds faults in beauty to feel better, the alpha hides his weaknesses by bullying others, the moral ones struggle with their inability to live authentic lives, etc. It isn't you personally but more the images others have of you. I am sure you crave real connection, acceptance and love, like the rest of humanity! Unfortunately, trauma makes this difficult.
I totally agree, and would add other key elements a sense of isolation, not belonging, not being able to give meaning to one's life. Depression is not due by and large by chemical inbalance: far more likely the depressed state is the cause of the chemical/ hormonal inbalance. I speak as a seasoned psychotherapist.
@@Lalallalu yes, you're perfectly right. All studies clean themselves from responsibility by highlighting how they can't know causality. We know it as therapists, it's in the room! Depression wouldn't exist if people had a job they enjoyed, healthy relationships, the opportunity to visit the world, and equal rights. Imbalance outside, imbalance inside. They totally influence each other
OMG! I am so grateful for this lecture. This needs to be on broadcast tv. Knowing the functional explanation makes a huge difference for me. I am in a situation where there are several serious progressive illnesses developing for a close loved one. I am the caregiver. My attitude over this added a layer of despair. I see how critically important it is for me to use the control I DO have, so as not to slip into depression. Thank you so much. Life altering information.
Didn't know what it was until I slowly became depressed. It was a combination of youth trauma, a lot of stress during work, the feeling that there is no way out and over the years I had less and less sleep, and had no interest in anything and at some point the suicide thoughts popped up. 4 years of therapy, STRUCTURE and exercise plus a healthy died and living day by day made it a lot better for me. I'm not there yet, but my mind is way more stable. The highs aren't extremely high anymore and the lows aren't "end of the world" low. And I'm the type of person that used to believe in work hard play hard and be tough. Enjoy small things, don't punish yourself and keep things small and set realistic goals. Anyways, it was a strange rollercoaster. Oh, and I did everything without anti depressants. But some people need anti depressants and others don't. They can be usefull.
If the initial problem that caused the depression can be solved then you can recover without medication. If for instance you hate your job, or your spouse or are in debt, then these are not insurmountable problems. They can change. The trouble is that some things can't be "fixed". You can't undo things that happened in the past for example. About 15 years ago a traffic accident in my city resulted in a young school girl being run over and killed by a bus. She did not die quickly and she was trapped under the bus and crying for her mother. The driver of course was there the whole time and had to endure listening to this poor girls cries. I learned that he took his own life months later. He could not undo what had been done and he knew he was going to be tortured by guilt for the rest of his life. He didn't really have much choice but to end it.
Does this help for borderline personality disorder? I have BPD and go through bouts of depression. I also get weird things like paranoia, delusions, unstable reality, derealisation.... it really sucks. The way you described how depression works made perfect sense to me - i felt understood.
Your conversation about dropping into depression I tried to explain to Dr. I would work hard to maintain my mental health and bam undun.. in full panic. People didn't get it and I understand it must be difficult to perceive. And my circuits loop. And so does the physical panic and full panic takes a few days to chill from and that's shut out the world to recover.. I am happy to hear you are seeing this. I know I have it and many more do and with all going on will need the contribution to mental health.. So cool
Dr. Amen books on the brain are great. Much of depression is your physical brain malfunctioning to a certain level in various ways including the neurotransmitters and other things.
Very interesting…. Hope this kind of treatment becomes available for more people…. I suffer depression for so many years…. It’s really not a good existence….
Fascinating discussion. I loved Jonathan's description of a fold response. In some models that is considered a freeze response too but its a passive rather than active defence mode. The question remains however why? Why does a brain create such a collapsed state of passivity. What causes it? Obviously it's a threat response but nobody here mentions the biggest threat most people experience in their lives. Loss of meaning. I believe the loss of safe connection is at the heart of this - attachment trauma largely from experiences in childhood but also re triggered when overwhelming emotional events happen in adulthood. From the work of Ronald R Ruden there are four factors that are necessary to create a traumatic memory in the limbic system. They are an initiating overwhelming event, an emotionally laden meaning, a sensitised brain and inescapability which Jonathan here describes as unwinnable. So many things in today's culture are indeed overwhelming and unwinnable. Whether its social status or financial position, health concerns or lack of job security, none of it has an easy solution. For the approximately 20%of people who have highly sensitive nervous systems (HSPs) this makes them much more prone to a stress response in these situations. But there are other options apart from pharmaceuticals. Perhaps the alternative is at the beginning when he talks about electrostimulation. Ruden has found that certain psycho sensory techniques like havening, EFT AND EMDR stimulate new brainwave patterns which help to overwrite the old response and rewire it. He calls them electroceuticals. All of these techniques promote a sense of emotional safety which extinguish the originating meaning of inescapability and thus the depression. If we understand it as a result of an accumulation of unconscious stress then it can be alleviated by releasing past trauma so you have more more resilience in the present. At least that's what I've found over and over when working with hundreds of people. Depression is treatable when you find and eliminate the underlying cause.
This presentation helps my understanding about others and my own mood swings. But the slowly rotating blue dots cause a feeling of nausea. Please change your future backgrounds to not rotate.
Prozac in the early ‘90’s made me and my sister gain weight. Our metabolisms have never recovered. I’ve tried all the depression meds and nothing works for me. Exercise and staying creative help. A childhood of physical and mental abuse is hard to recover from. I have learned when I am depressed, I allow it to run its course. The only way out is through.
Depression is the result of disconection from your true self, your true nature. Its a reault of our way of thinking and believing that we are our bodies and thoughts. We are not our bodies and thoughts. We are aware of them but we are not them. This is the start.
Victims of stroke suffer depression-what would you suggest-my mom had a full ischemic stroke from which she recovered but is plagues with anxiety, depression, insecurity, and is more sensitive to criticism. Prior to the stroke, she never experienced depression or took any medication.
Being with other people, even if you are feeling you can involve a lot, will help getting a bit distracted from the depressive thoughts. I have never tried talking people out of depression. But being there is the most important. So even if I have been depressed or when someone who I know have been depressed. Being there for the depressed person is a great help for the depressed person even if he or she cannot fully appreciate it because of the depression, at least it pushes the brain to try to find the more positive looks on the situations.
Wow, what a treat to listen to this interview. David´s questions were so right-on and concise and Dr. Downar´s responses were informative, understandable, and straightforward. What a great channel, thank you both and I`m hooked.
Excellent interview.Great minds. Dr Downar is well known very knowledgeable and articulate.He explain things and make it accessible to the average person.As a physician I have to say that Dr Downar has Horners syndrome.R eyes is smaller in appearance,medically we describe it as Ptosis,myosis etc.He probably know that.
@@middleofnowhere1313 one of the most important part of depression: loss and helplessness. So instead of creating an environment for people to live, they're blaming people...for depression! And then feed people so called "legal" drugs to keep them desensitised to the trauma that is society...kind of effed up
I solved it by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
As I wrote before, this doesn't work for most people. Yes, everyone should eat well, but most people require medical treatment for severe depression. It is also rude of you to keep posting this. It is very unempathetic to people who will never be able to "cure" their disorders with food alone.
did it really work? I am on my second day eating food without additives and also lower carb. (potatoes, but not any grains anymore). I am looking for hope.
Cured 40 years of depression accidentally by going on the carnivore diet. All my inflammation went away and my depression went with it. Siblings followed and the same happened for them. Crazy!!!
I am reading more along these lines. A MD says that sugar, processed food, and insufficient fiber will damage the body. And over years can cause chronic diseases. So I believe firmly in what you are saying.
Fascinating. Your discussion on rumination reminded me of obsessive thoughts in OCD. Is there any connection or overlap? Does the method of mapping of brain pathways you find in depression (and TMS) help with any other conditions such as anxiety?
Me and many members of my family suffer of depression. I have mixed fellings about this episode. I don't know when this treatments will get to be available in my country or if would be affordable for us. I going through a hard episode and I feel terrible and with zero enthusiasm for the future.
People reading my comment can try this: Lightly drum the back of your head (the crown part) with your index and middle finger. It works! I do it sometimes. I think it stimulates parts of the brain that controls mood. The sensation is definitely calming.
Exceptional presentation on depression - I concur regarding a lot of what was said in my own experiences with hundreds of depression sufferers. Sadly, overall, the western world is getting more and more depressive - and certain minds and brains can't handle the hopelessness of the systems we live under. Certainly some sort of mechanical / stimulation therapy to the brain to bypass the emotional trauma would be extremely helpful. And potentially without the disturbing side affects of SSRIs and the like.
Fascinating! Love the fourth “fold”. Since our domestic animals (the meat we eat) have been selected for passivity could eating this meat decrease the flight & increase folding.?
Very interesting conversation, I especially like the concept of attractor states, that would be a useful concept in therapy. My only question is: is it actually brain that becomes depressed?
These videos are excellent. Thank you, David Eagleman! I have "studied" neuroscience (as a lay person, mind you - just very interested) and psychology, etc etc. and never heard of the concept of "folding!" It is very helpful when thinking about depression. In the video your fascinating discussion about the use of TMS to push people out of deep depression made me wonder if there is a method for those of us who suffer a lesser form of depression to do a similar thing for ourselves without technology? Would some sort of limbic system retraining accomplish that? What about limbic system retraining in general? Thank you, again, for your work to get science out to the public.
Hi David thanks for another insightful podcast. I was wondering if you ever looked at the psychological impact of the Monetary system on the modern Man
What an outstanding lecture. My wife suffered from Clinical Depression. She remained on Prozac until her death from metastatic breast cancer that went to her brain's left motor strip. What I found fascinating was during the nine years her "battled" the cancer, she became an outspoken political activist for Universal Health Care. During those nine years fighting cancer, she never suffered from a bout of depression but boldly addressed both her cancer and the USA's complex medical system to change. The cancer in her brain seemed to motivate Paula to a higher degree of positive functioning than anything else. It was very interesting to me and why I delved so deeply into neurobiology of human behavior in 2014. Thank you for this profound insight into Depression. I also referred back to the 2024 2nd Edition of Brain and Behavior by Eagleman and Downar. I highly recommend the book.
No depression... cancer meds had some influence?
@@hulamei3117 She had a long time affair with Depression prior to her cancer diagnosis. Actually, her Cancer gave her a hardcore purpose toward medical advocacy at the political level that helped her depression during cancer treatment. Chemo did other things to her body but not the Depression. Go figure!
No, that was the Prozac ....
Check out Iain McGilchrist as well.
My mom died from metastatic breast cancer, long before I realized how to cure any disease with unprocessed foods. I solved the mystery of diseases by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
Living in horrible circumstances for decades with no way out. It takes it’s toll on a person
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
You should man up
I solved it by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
It sure does. We do find ways to survive, but it can really feel like there's no way out. And it can absolutely be draining to have to constantly fight. ❤
@@Scorned405what do you mean by "man up"?? It's such a weird thing to say.
Hope
When I'm depressed I can't fathom hope anymore.
I need hope
I have felt like that before. I’ve been learning to focus on the positive things in my life First thing in the morning. It’s difficult to feel hopeless when I’m being thankful for the good things in my life. Just having food and shelter is truly a blessing. Some people don’t even have a safe place to sleep. The world has a whole lot of sadness in it but our planet and nature is extremely Beautiful!! Do you have a dog or cat? My cat has helped me a lot! Hang in there. Things will get better!💞
I totally see you. Longer periods or being depressed for years takes its toll and it is difficult to find things to be grateful for. I wish you that you can find hope. Unfortunately there are no words to say that can get through depressional bias, and it feels even more frustrating when people try to give you advice or are telling you to snap out of it (like mentioned in the video). Maybe Artifical Intelligence will have a better solution to depression. This is one of my hopes.
Good Diet, exercise, fasting, sunlight, healthy positive people, routines and ideals. This is the key to your success.
@@WB-63 I did that for 10 years and it didn't help with depression lol
Well as one that suffers, this episode really touched a tender spot. I am very familiar with the "instant" depression. I often describe it as a wave washing over me or like window blinds being closed. It really is that quick. And most often, but not always, I am unaware of what triggered it. Fortunately my depressive episodes are not often and they are short lived. But early on they were long episodes, i.e. months and years. The last long episode was about a decade and was EXTREMELY dark. I ruminated on suicide constantly. At least every few minutes or so I would put a finger gun to my head and enact blowing my head off. Ironically my real choice of suicide, which I prepared, was hanging. I had a noose already prepared in my garage. And the really strange thing about is that is exactly how my older brother killed himself. I had lots of nightmares about that.
Anyway, I do much better now and always tell people to take care of their mental/emotional health. Our society still has a long way to go of accepting mental health issues without judgment and to insist that insurance pay for the care.
'Instant depression' (with no distinctable reason), so relatable! Is that an official term?
Thanks for sharing. I wish you the strength to keep fighting and stay well. Peace ☮️ to you.
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
@@yvonnealkemade5473 Don't worry if it's an official term. That's part of the problem with people as well. "Oh cool lets give this a name and latch it in to my sense of self!"
Yeah, no...
@@Hunnna_Jay yeah, you're right. I think we've gone too far in diagnosing and analysing anyway. I think it's better for human beings being busy with growing food, or hunting or whatever. We think too much... At least I do! 😬
I suffered from debilitating depression for over 20 years. Experienced a severe concussion and haven't been depressed for a moment since! It's been 4+ years. I am so thankful!🎉😊
Thats so wild! The concussion was a good thing ultimately then?!😮 What a wonderful blessing it turned out to be🎉 that's wonderful😂
@@Hammondchris absolutely wonderful! Who know that all I had to do was literally knock myself silly? 🤣
Your karma has been paid 🙏🏽
I had emergency surgery for a burst brain aneurysm. My recovery resulted in obtaining, not only a sense of humor (which I never had) , and Consciousness (not all at once) but a door was opened and blossomed over a period of years. My entire life has been altered through intense self reflection and observation. Would thesse changes have occurred without the aneurysm? I'm not sure, because I was a workaholic and for the first time in my life I was forced to take time off that allowed me to think deeply about many areas of long-term curiosity and interest.
All throughout my long life, I've experienced depression. Now, however, I've worked through all the reasons that created the depression. I have many theories on what creates depression - it's all from our misguided lives. Medication from pharmaceuticals never worked for me.
30 years treatment resistant, including TMS and ECT, and this is the first time I've heard of the concept of "folding". It resonates so much. I can virtually pinpoint the day my brain "gave up". Strangely this video has given me renewed optimism. Thank you.
I'm in a similar battle 20 years with treatment resistant depression.
19th February 1986. The day mine started. I can't quite believe it's so long ago now. Never saw it coming. In my opinion depression happens when the problem you encounter does not appear to have any form of solution but you cannot accept it as something you can live with.
Ect saved my life.
Very much appreciated. I have dysthymia with recurring depressions for over 50 year. This summer I got a ketamine treatment. It made me feel much better for a few weeks, but it slowly stopped working. I was back where I started. It was disapointing, but it is good to know that deep down there, there is a better version of me waiting to come out some day, when the science has finaly arrived. Keep up the good work!
Until you have experienced severe physiological depression. Then you won't understand. These physiological effects are why you cant just snap out of it
alot of people experience minor effects but the pain can become intolerable. wildlife exploitation has led to alot more suffering as humans lack natural selection. its even causing alot of suffering towards animals and plants.
totally agree
You can't snap out of it, you actually need to snap into all the thoughs and learn to process them correctly, Listen to J Kristnamurti Urgency Of Change podcasts
Depression isnt a disease its a part of the human condition
Exactly. It’s like the world has no color or hope or anything at all, it is absolutely full of emptiness, but the emptiness weighs on you like a thick sludge that won’t go away.
Take care friend
🙏
It was very educational as usual, thank you
It's disgusting how few subscriptions this fascinating channel has.
Is disgusting the right word?
Disgusting is an interesting word to use, and seems a bit out of context.
Well, every comment helps a tiny bit to boost the YT algorithm 😊
I thought it was more shocking than disgusting. I’m a huge fan of David Eagleman and I was surprised I haven’t found it sooner, I was wondering if it was new?
😮??? Disgusting??? I’m confused. I’ll go ahead and comment to boost the algorithm because fascinating information.
I’ve been on prozac for 8 years now and it saved my life🙏
I had TMS for chronic, severe depression & have been depression, anxiety and inattentive ADD free for 5 years.
I work with veterans and our youth. Since 2020 I’ve witnessed an acute increase of depression in my people.
Amazing point in the last part.
Didn’t know what to expect, but gradually was drawn in feeling surprised. This contains powerful messages of hope and aligns with all my reflections on depression. Yes I have been consciously battling for 54 years a whole plethora of symptoms - almost all the symptoms mentioned in this video- arising out of this ailment, decades of psychotherapy, familial reconstructions, different spiritual sittings, group or individual therapy, psychoanalysis, picture work, EMDR, behavioral therapy, the list goes on. I’ve been to a homeopathic psychiatrist, neurologists, and several psychiatrists been put on fluoxetine, paroxetine, welllbutrin,, elontril and others. I am now for the last four years finally receiving a course of drug treatment on which I can reasonably rely. TMS (Transcranial magnetic stimulation), DBS (deep brain stimulation)?, but in particular societal realignments - a parallel was drawn in this video with controlling tuberculosis over a century ago - indeed gives me hope that progress is being made in coping with a peri-epidemic of depression. I also find the concept of “folding” to be very appropriate, to me though the strategy of freezing is very akin to that of folding. When I fold in my depression I also want to turn invisible, suicide being an extension of this.
i’m 43 nearly 44 , pre menapause has really affected my mood and also intrusive thoughts. I hope i get back to my normal self again
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
Hormone decline. Testosterone specifically. I know it sounds crude but I dated a woman that was in the same situation as you and after we started having unprotected sex and I ejaculated inside her on a daily basis, she absorbed testosterone from my semen and it almost completely eliminated her mindset.
You can get back you just need to know more about your body , like vitamine difficieny your levels of hormones, then try to fix it with natural supplements .
I had depressed mod and anxiety plus a host of other symptoms when I went brought menopause. Bioidentical Hormones helped me tremendously!
@@granolagirlGfunk thank u
I have no words to express how grateful I am that you are making these episodes and putting it all out there for everyone. This episode in particular. Thank you.
The distinction between reward and non reward circuits, their impact on rumination default mode and crucially, the use of tms to individually target each...the net result is not hyperbolically revolutionary, it is the missing link to break the deadlock state of a brain hopelessly at war with itself. Excellent!
I feel like the fight is unwinnable. . 61 yo and find myself out of work. My savings are very low and securing a job that doesn't hinder my chronic pain is near impossible. I don't know where I fit into this world. Every day I contemplate an exit plan. .
You are not alone my friend. Dealing with the same exact scenario.
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression late August of this year. It was so bad at one point that my husband had to call on the priest to calm me down , I was so sad that I didn’t wanted to be in this planet no more and I was spinning down emotionally that I couldn’t even stand up 😢 7 days after my deepest point I started to feel better and is thanks to God. I did fasting, praying, walking daily and after every meals, eat clean ( ZERO SUGAR) drank only water, quit smoking/drinking stop drinking caffeine, and stop using the phone for approximately 2 months and finally I took my prescription medicine. All of that did 98% change in my life I feel better then ever! I strongly
suggest to turn to God for healing and seek professional help. 🙏🏼💙✝️
What a wonderful and enlightening talk! Thank you so much for your hard work and dedication to humanity
!
Recently had a stroke,everything about the brain and physicsfascinates me now
Thank you for your willingness to say that medical science does not yet know what causes depression. 🙏
I’m so excited to find this channel!! David Eagleman is one of my favorite people!! He’s taught me SO MUCH about my brain to help me understand how and why I was addicted to opioids. In knowing I was able to change my brain. Just knowing that I CAN change my brain was almost enough to help. David’s books have help me to change my thoughts and my life!!! A video of David and Sadhguru (it’s on UA-cam as well) discussing the brain was fascinating, seeing those two together helped me sooooo much. Both men helped change my life.
The Guys name is "Downer" and he's an expert on depression. The universe is mocking us!
Ha ha ! Great insight - I missed that until you pointed it out!
Lol!!! Nah, it's got a sense of humour!
I've dealt with depression throughout my life, started in the second grade. The one thing I've come to understand, at least in my case, is the importance of self talk and understanding negative biases towards oneself. You can, to some degree, think yourself into and out of depression, you just have to understand thought processes. Those who suffer clinical or pathological depression you have my sympathies.
Depression is also linked from the gut to the mind. If u eat processed food, depletes minerals and vitamins from repairing the cells, destroying the energy factory, mitochondria
Yes!
@@edwardlulofs444The American diet is seriously lacking. They are selling foods here that are banned in other countries. I think we need to get back to the basics and start cooking more Whole Foods.
@@CMoore8539 oh, yes, very true. I am learning that more every day. I am trying to eat more healthy. Giving up 99% of the foods in the grocery shop.
I should cook more: I only cook oatmeal. For me, cooking is harder than calculus!?! 🥴
This is the first time that I'm hearing about depression being addressed as a brain illness. Thank you! This new point of view gives me additional tools I can use to look at this and cope with mild depression. I need to treat my brain better and feed it with behaviors that are good for it.
Could you please put a reference to the research done to clinically depressed patients where they implanted electrodes in their brain and created a feed back loop using machine learning?
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
Look on UA-cam for David Eagleman and Sadhguru about the brain and mysticism. That one is absolutely fascinating learning spiritually and science together. Both helped me with addiction and everything that comes with that. I bet you’d find some useful information from it too!! 💙💙💙
The brain itself rarely is the cause - but it gets caught in a loop / congestion and needs to be helped out of it. The cause still needs to be addressed as well.
This is so good. I've suffered from depression and anxiety all my life, and you have given me new ways to look at it that make sense to me.
Same here. Gives hope in a way...
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
Benzodiazes work. Xanax and Klonopen mainly. Highly addictive though. They work like magic.
@@BrianMcGuire-u5s I was addicted to benzodiazepines. They were extremely hard to get off of. I am not saying that people shouldn't take them, but always follow your doctor's advice.
Please don't recommend benzos. They are a temporary solution and create a lot more problems in the long run. Actually, they destroy your gaba receptors. I know from personal experience how difficult they are to get off. The metabolites have a very short half life & make them very addictive. Your body will need more and more to produce the same effect even if you are taking them as prescribed. They literally almost took my life permanently. My doc put me on them in '08 and it took me 4 excrutiating years to get off of them. They physically change your brain chemistry & you can't just quit taking them. Gran mal seizures are very real when discontinuing them. It felt like I had Parkinson's or Ms coming off that horrible class of drug. Not a week or a month, it took me years & the grace of God to get off benzos & feel somewhat normal again. I wouldn't wish that nightmare on my worst enemy.
First time watcher here. So I am only 8:15 in and i jumped out of my seat (well, bed) when you mentioned that you co-wrote wrote ‘Brain and Behavior’! The 5th edition was one of my textbooks at Florida Institute of Technology! I LOVED that book and still have my copy! Sometimes I randomly think about things I learned from that book and have the ‘aha’ moment all over again! I also use as a reference source sometimes. Now I’m even more excited to continue watching! 😊
Brilliant podcast . Best talk I have heard on the subject . Great to see new treatments offering hope to millions of sufferers
Thank you for the deep update on understanding, treating and giving us Hope into why and hopefully preventing further cases of depression in the future. Although, knowing life is suffering, too.
Thank you for your academic work and public education here 🙏🏼✨
Music that WOWs you is a natural way to improve mood
I am an avid very widespread music fan as well as a very serious diet and exercise person, but I have suffered terribly with exactly what they’re talking about
I am an avid very widespread music fan as well as a very serious diet and exercise person, but I have suffered terribly with exactly what they’re talking about
@@vickygraham2444 Funny, I’m a musician and I know what depression is. Comments like yours always feel a bit tone deaf.
I cured my own depression. I did this by making overcoming nihilism my daily task and my soul purpose in life.
@@TW-SB Gratitude helps me!😊 What helps you?
Disconnected from nature, in particular full-spectrum sunlight, plus tons of blue light from our electronic devices after sunset.
Get outside. Leave your phone at home. Notice something beautiful every day. 🍁
Very articulate guest. He was quick to frame the answer in a comprehensible way, but he was also surprisingly careful with his phrasing to stay on the right side of what is solidly defensible. Very few people use language this carefully on a fluent basis while speaking extemporaneously, even from within a deep body of expertise.
Is it crazy to feel despair when I think about the consequences of environmental destruction, climate change, plastic accumulation in our bodies, brains, animals, everywhere, looking through the window and realizing the birds may not be there in the future for my daughter... or am I just crazy?
Very interesting interview, Thank you!
It has nothing to do with craziness. When you're constantly focusing on bad things this can be a sign of depression or compulsive worrying. It doesn't help in having a good life for yourself and your daughter (nor does it help the birds 😅). I hope you find a way to deal with it!
It sounds like you are having some kind of "fugue' state. (I don't know what to call it. I'm not a psychologist) Most minds don't constantly worry about so many different things.
It depends how much you allow such thoughts to affect your day to day life, if your concerned but function normally then that’s fine, if it affects your mood then it’s not ok and you should seek help.
I feel like that also.
Thank you for the terrific information. The fact that the depression expert's name is Dr. Downar makes me giggle.
Dr. Jonathan Downar (Toronto) and his secretary's name - Sunny.
Likewise and likewise. It made my day haha
The fight is, for the common person, unwinnable indeed, and it’s built that way.
But I think it’s a mixture of everything speculated on. There are so many things I bet could help with the depression issue.
Extremely intriguing, thank you!! I have Autism/ADHD and empath abilities. I masked my autism until a year ago and went through a 7 day rewiring that was intense. 2 places in my head have thought to speech my autism stutters and my adhd does not and I feel my autistic thoughts to speech feel different. So, I suffered from anxiety/panic disorder and depression my whole life until I unmasked. Although I did start taking Prozac because I was in a dark place during a meltdown, I can attest that when we do not self regulate our central nervous system properly, it will release as negative energies such as depression. Even though autism is gaining more attention it does not fix a bad situation for Level 1 autistics and that is inadvertent masking. This will lead to anxiety and depression in these individuals. We need to understand the problem lies on modern society, the fact that we have societal norms that dictate how you have to be as a human. That is the biggest issue. I don't learn by sitting in box to learn. Observation and listening at my pace and in my space is the way I learn and there is no limit to what I can do. I just wanted to add that I was on Paxil for over 25 years and weaned off it and that was hard it took 4 months but no bad anxieties or panic attacks. Also monotropic thinking and hyper focus can be problematic with depression as well which makes it even more of a potential internal conundrum to keep cycling. Just some thoughts that I feel and observe.👻🤪🌶🤘😎♾️
Excellent. Not many autistic people can share their experience and you sure can so I hope you hang in there with all the different therapies to help all of us do better with our thinking, which many of us is our weakest link to life
@GilbertGryfud-mu3zi my empath abilities are somewhat of a bonus. Just heard today that my great nephew is nonverbal and my 5 year granddaughter is level 2 but is starting to use words and I am trying to figure out what opened up my autistic voice because I want to try and help others if there is at least a chance then I remain hopeful. Thank you for the validation, which stands out in my mind as part of the solution as well as special interest and frequent social interactions with a transition set up to let them ease out of the monotropic thought process because it can be really upsetting. Anyway, thank you!!🙏👻🤪🌶🤘😎♾️
Me too! Remarkable to learn this about myself in my sixties!
I first learned of David's Brain series in a social psych course. I have no idea why he is not more known here. Amazing stuff. I am looking for the series that he describes the flight or fight responce and basically a truama brain responce. Guess I have to watch them all again! I tell as many people as possible who like to learn!
Give me link.
Very helpful BUT you both ignore early childhood neglect, abuse, and loss when the brain is still forming. The degree of such trauma will effect people differently but getting childhood histories as we psychoanalytically informed clinicians are trained to do can help predict degrees of depression. Hormones are also involved because cortisol certainly effect the brain and oxytocin (the love hormone) can offset trauma. I hope a combination of depth talk therapy can be considered by you neuroscientists in conjunction with TMS. Mark Solms is a neuroscientist who is also a psychoanalyst as is Norman Doidge. They both have written fascinating books i recommend highly. And Ed Tronick studies infants and toddlers - his work is priceless. He can be found on youtube.
Jane Hall
Yes. Know your ACE score!
But can’t TMS work if the depression is caused by ACES, neglect, etc.?
TMS saved my life ❤
They’re not behaviorist or early education teachers, they are neurologistS
And....?@@GilbertGryfud-mu3zi
Great, fantastic episode, professor Eagleman. Spreading knowledge is already a giant step in creating better society conditions, in the sense you talked about tuberculosis and rates that drop. Hopefully it will happen with depression in a few decades. What to say? Thank you a thousand times🙏😊
Unfortunately I believe mental health issues will get MUCH, MUCH worse in the coming years. When society is faced with a MASSIVE epidemic where it actually starts to affect the pockets of the top one % only then will we see it being addressed correctly.
Who even knows, humans are so dumb we will probably end up like in that movie “Idiocracy” 🤦🏻♂️
Per-catastrophic massive stroke, I had an OCD; insomnia, anxious, ritual habits and depression. (My blood clots wiped it away). Here is my combat-depression list: a) don’t do anything stupid, b) you can sit in a public place (library, mall, cafe, movie theater), c) seek help from a cognitive behavioral therapist, d) cry, cry and CRY, e) keep your journal handy, f) cry with your best friend or with your therapist, g) EXERCISE. Your depression is in your damage brain. Exercise may trigger an endorphins. Plus, your body may look fantastic. “Nature’s home-brewed opiates, endorphins are chemicals that act a lot like their medically engineered counterpart, morphine.”
I have family history of depression/suicide and grateful never had thoughts of suicude. My breast cancer journey 2022-2024 really heightened those feelings and emotions 😢 . I feel my brain was feeling the cancer before i was diagnosed that i had many emotional outbursts that seemed daily out of my control. Praise God for his strength 🙏 that anydat I didnt hear his word was unbearable.
The last bit of see what doing with abnormal behaviour via a brain defibrillator was intriguing.
Excellent. Very important
I struggled with drug resistant depression for all of my life. I reached a crisis point about a year ago and told my doctor that I really could not go on like this. She put me on a ketamine program that eliminated my depression instantly. It was shocking. it definitely has some downsides, for one I don’t enjoy feeling “high“ and it has to be done every week. But my depression is completely gone and I’m trying to learn how to live a life without it. It’s the strangest thing to have had this unbearable weight on top of me my whole life, and I have it suddenly gone. It’s like learning to live all over again. I would love to hear your thoughts on this new treatment.
Ketamine indeed is a lifesaver for many people and thankfully it's being accepted more. I respond well to SSRI but follow the news stories on ketamine.
Do u need to do regular ketamine treatments or one is sufficient?
That is amazing! Good for you. I'm a longtime SSRIer.
They work for me - trouble is a bit too well, haven't managed to come off them, though tried a few times.
@@starmole5000 Gotta be determined. You took them for a "long time" now you're basically that pill.
@@Hunnna_Jay don't be ridiculous. Might as well say someone's a vitamin pill because they take them every day.
"Gotta be determined" is exactly the sort of nonsense advice they mention doesn't work in this video.
So helpful. I got Covid which turned into long covid. It changed my life because I couldn’t think and was hard to take care of my needs. But I did with a wonky brain for almost couple of years. I lived alone. Now I moved to another town near my daughter. I’m a stranger in her well established active life. It’s really strange and I’m older which is different. The town having smaller changes are a good point.
29:20 Self-perpetuating feedback loop of depressing rumination (habitual negativity loop)
30:39 TMS Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation, - can stimulate underactive areas of courage and resilience, and (in different positiom of coils) can break up the habitual neural-firing loop of negativity. (e.g. introduces neuroplasticity into a more useful mindset).
32:32 Result: patients seem to cope more easily, and things don't upset them so much. Strengthening mental muscle for cognitive control, similar to what mindfulness meditation over a long time can do.
33:50 RTMS noninvasive stimulation to disrupt the negativity feedback loop (non reward attractor circuit) -- tot he point where the person can pull themselves out of the loop via cognitive control. We seem to be able to see how our brain is starting to ruminate but we don't get pulled into a loop; instead we can decide not to go there with our thoughts.
Now we know how to disrupt the "hijacked motivational circuit to be in a depressed state" and turn it off!!
NOTE TO SELF: I use a favorite mantra (song) to sing to disrupt the loop!! I wonder if my "humming" is doing what TMS does, but with sound?
40:50 implanted electrode can be engineered to disrupt 'negativity loops' just like a heart defibrillators works (kind of a brain defibrillator)
NOTE TO SELF: Is there a defibrillator chip for those with epilepsy, Elon?
What a fascinating update on help for depression. I'm of the view that meditation, breath techniques, and humming can conceivably provide just what chips hope do, and less invasive.
There will one day soon be moral non-harm "encoding" in AI to insure our very tools don't hack our brains into pill popping depressives, thus eliminating the myriad of negative fear-based ads.
For more complex social skills if they are missing due to adverse childhood experience then no matter an antidepressant…if someone doesn’t know how to float or swim the antidepressant won’t help. We have to provide folks with context, conditions, opportunities to learn new skills, have new opportunities . In other words part of the problem is the “normal” to try and return to is still missing what is needed to avoid depression.
Depression is also feeling disconnected from the flow of life, distancing from affectionate relationships, not having community belonging and not feeling part of society. Part of the treatment should also focus on making people feel that they are part of a whole universe and that their life matters. Unfortunately the decline of religious beliefs also contribute to alienation and lack of meaning to life. Maybe one should also focus on improving the connectivity of the depressed brain with the environment. I guess that the solution is more than just restoring chemical balance and brain stimulation. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Much appreciate the time and effort.
Watching this has definitely made me realize I’m very depressed. I’m still young and want to be very happy
In the entire 58 minutes, very little has been said about bad diet and little exercise. All these mental problems seem to have gotten radically worse since the 1970s or so. Obesity and things like diabetes have also increased.
I know from personal experience, that since bettering my diet, I feel far less unhappy or nervous, than I used to feel.
And combined with meditation even better.
I was thinking the same thing.
Depression is a symptom of trauma. Psychiatry wouldn't exist if people realised that their depression is a normal repsonse to prolonged fear and rejection, something rife in society. Depression is a totally normal response to a sick society. It is in the interest of psychiatry to medicalise anything remotely normal
I agree! I only experience folding when people openly reject me. There are too many psychopathic narcissists in this world. In our families! I do that, I take care of myself and do not engage with these rude mean people. Who needs them? Not me! It is so hard to reach out and find new friends in a new area, when you don't know how people will behave. There will always be a narc in the group, wanting to take control and be the "alpha", whatever. I am sick of this. Why can't people just be chill and friendly? Is it me? Yes it is, because I am tall, beautiful, well balanced and a great conversationalist. These women are jealous, plain and simple. Men do not treat me this way. But there is a stigma in this society if a woman has a few male friends and is not married. I live like a nun! I have not dated for 20 years. I do care about my friends, but I have to be very careful who I spend time with. Even my doctor acts like he is stunned around me! Sheesh!
@@kathryngganderson8636 yes, stigma. Having to be "respectable", to play a pre-determined script in order to fit in to something that is only imagined.
People can't be chill and friendly because they project their trauma and insecurity on others. The jealous type finds faults in beauty to feel better, the alpha hides his weaknesses by bullying others, the moral ones struggle with their inability to live authentic lives, etc. It isn't you personally but more the images others have of you.
I am sure you crave real connection, acceptance and love, like the rest of humanity! Unfortunately, trauma makes this difficult.
I totally agree, and would add other key elements a sense of isolation, not belonging, not being able to give meaning to one's life.
Depression is not due by and large by chemical inbalance: far more likely the depressed state is the cause of the chemical/ hormonal inbalance.
I speak as a seasoned psychotherapist.
@@Lalallalu yes, you're perfectly right. All studies clean themselves from responsibility by highlighting how they can't know causality. We know it as therapists, it's in the room! Depression wouldn't exist if people had a job they enjoyed, healthy relationships, the opportunity to visit the world, and equal rights. Imbalance outside, imbalance inside. They totally influence each other
In western society only
stop believing anti china lies
Wow. This is episode 48?? I have a lot of catching up to do!!
OMG! I am so grateful for this lecture. This needs to be on broadcast tv. Knowing the functional explanation makes a huge difference for me. I am in a situation where there are several serious progressive illnesses developing for a close loved one. I am the caregiver. My attitude over this added a layer of despair. I see how critically important it is for me to use the control I DO have, so as not to slip into depression. Thank you so much. Life altering information.
Didn't know what it was until I slowly became depressed. It was a combination of youth trauma, a lot of stress during work, the feeling that there is no way out and over the years I had less and less sleep, and had no interest in anything and at some point the suicide thoughts popped up. 4 years of therapy, STRUCTURE and exercise plus a healthy died and living day by day made it a lot better for me. I'm not there yet, but my mind is way more stable. The highs aren't extremely high anymore and the lows aren't "end of the world" low. And I'm the type of person that used to believe in work hard play hard and be tough. Enjoy small things, don't punish yourself and keep things small and set realistic goals. Anyways, it was a strange rollercoaster. Oh, and I did everything without anti depressants. But some people need anti depressants and others don't. They can be usefull.
If the initial problem that caused the depression can be solved then you can recover without medication. If for instance you hate your job, or your spouse or are in debt, then these are not insurmountable problems. They can change. The trouble is that some things can't be "fixed". You can't undo things that happened in the past for example. About 15 years ago a traffic accident in my city resulted in a young school girl being run over and killed by a bus. She did not die quickly and she was trapped under the bus and crying for her mother. The driver of course was there the whole time and had to endure listening to this poor girls cries. I learned that he took his own life months later. He could not undo what had been done and he knew he was going to be tortured by guilt for the rest of his life. He didn't really have much choice but to end it.
Does this help for borderline personality disorder?
I have BPD and go through bouts of depression. I also get weird things like paranoia, delusions, unstable reality, derealisation.... it really sucks.
The way you described how depression works made perfect sense to me - i felt understood.
Thanks for not playing music!!!
Excellent & most informative. Though one should not lose sight of psychosocial factors in the etiology & management of depression
Your conversation about dropping into depression I tried to explain to Dr. I would work hard to maintain my mental health and bam undun.. in full panic. People didn't get it and I understand it must be difficult to perceive. And my circuits loop. And so does the physical panic and full panic takes a few days to chill from and that's shut out the world to recover.. I am happy to hear you are seeing this. I know I have it and many more do and with all going on will need the contribution to mental health.. So cool
This is the first video I watched from your channel. Greta, great talk! So much life-changing knowledge on there! Thank you!
Dr. Amen books on the brain are great. Much of depression is your physical brain malfunctioning to a certain level in various ways including the neurotransmitters and other things.
Very interesting…. Hope this kind of treatment becomes available for more people…. I suffer depression for so many years…. It’s really not a good existence….
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
🌷
I have to exercise for 1 week vigorously to snap out depression ❤
Fascinating discussion. I loved Jonathan's description of a fold response. In some models that is considered a freeze response too but its a passive rather than active defence mode. The question remains however why? Why does a brain create such a collapsed state of passivity. What causes it? Obviously it's a threat response but nobody here mentions the biggest threat most people experience in their lives. Loss of meaning. I believe the loss of safe connection is at the heart of this - attachment trauma largely from experiences in childhood but also re triggered when overwhelming emotional events happen in adulthood. From the work of Ronald R Ruden there are four factors that are necessary to create a traumatic memory in the limbic system. They are an initiating overwhelming event, an emotionally laden meaning, a sensitised brain and inescapability which Jonathan here describes as unwinnable. So many things in today's culture are indeed overwhelming and unwinnable. Whether its social status or financial position, health concerns or lack of job security, none of it has an easy solution. For the approximately 20%of people who have highly sensitive nervous systems (HSPs) this makes them much more prone to a stress response in these situations. But there are other options apart from pharmaceuticals. Perhaps the alternative is at the beginning when he talks about electrostimulation. Ruden has found that certain psycho sensory techniques like havening, EFT AND EMDR stimulate new brainwave patterns which help to overwrite the old response and rewire it. He calls them electroceuticals. All of these techniques promote a sense of emotional safety which extinguish the originating meaning of inescapability and thus the depression. If we understand it as a result of an accumulation of unconscious stress then it can be alleviated by releasing past trauma so you have more more resilience in the present. At least that's what I've found over and over when working with hundreds of people. Depression is treatable when you find and eliminate the underlying cause.
This presentation helps my understanding about others and my own mood swings. But the slowly rotating blue dots cause a feeling of nausea. Please change your future backgrounds to not rotate.
Thank you so much. I am very happy that youtube showed me this channel
I swear this phone is reading my mind! Lol. I was literally asking myself this question today and this video popped up later.
Prozac in the early ‘90’s made me and my sister gain weight. Our metabolisms have never recovered. I’ve tried all the depression meds and nothing works for me. Exercise and staying creative help. A childhood of physical and mental abuse is hard to recover from. I have learned when I am depressed, I allow it to run its course. The only way out is through.
Listen to dr.Berg. I got a lot of help by listening to his advices.
Outstanding interview and lecture. So well done by both with amazing credentials. Thank u for this
Depression is the result of disconection from your true self, your true nature. Its a reault of our way of thinking and believing that we are our bodies and thoughts. We are not our bodies and thoughts. We are aware of them but we are not them. This is the start.
Just the opposite. Depression could be the realization of your true nature in a system designed to kill that knowledge.
How ridiculous!
Victims of stroke suffer depression-what would you suggest-my mom had a full ischemic stroke from which she recovered but is plagues with anxiety, depression, insecurity, and is more sensitive to criticism. Prior to the stroke, she never experienced depression or took any medication.
One of your best episodes. Your felicitous use of metaphors to explain complex topics makes them easier to understand.
Outstanding lecture...u r the real gods of human civilization who are healing ppl..🙏🙏🙏
Being with other people, even if you are feeling you can involve a lot, will help getting a bit distracted from the depressive thoughts. I have never tried talking people out of depression. But being there is the most important. So even if I have been depressed or when someone who I know have been depressed. Being there for the depressed person is a great help for the depressed person even if he or she cannot fully appreciate it because of the depression, at least it pushes the brain to try to find the more positive looks on the situations.
Thank you for this very insightful episode.
Wow, what a treat to listen to this interview. David´s questions were so right-on and concise and Dr. Downar´s responses were informative, understandable, and straightforward. What a great channel, thank you both and I`m hooked.
Really enjoyed this discussion and it gave me more insight into the depression I'm experiencing now. Thank you.
Excellent interview.Great minds.
Dr Downar is well known very knowledgeable and articulate.He explain things and make it accessible to the average person.As a physician I have to say that Dr Downar has Horners syndrome.R eyes is smaller in appearance,medically we describe it as Ptosis,myosis etc.He probably know that.
With these marvelous discoveries, you’re sharing we may even find cures for other mental illnesses. How exciting is that??
Excellent presentation ⭐️⭐️
We're depressed because our jobs are going away and we can't afford to live. It never lets up. It's killing us.
@@middleofnowhere1313 one of the most important part of depression: loss and helplessness. So instead of creating an environment for people to live, they're blaming people...for depression! And then feed people so called "legal" drugs to keep them desensitised to the trauma that is society...kind of effed up
I feel you.
I solved it by giving up any foods with any added ingredients. So long as I only ingest foods without any added ingredients (except prunes which have one added ingredient = potassium sorbate), I remain depression free and also my joints don't ache and my stage 4 osteoporosis is healing into stronger bones. When I first got the idea, my 15 year struggle with eczema was clearly healing within the first 72 hours of my "clean eating". As soon as I eat anything processed or with added sugar, my depression and body aches return within 20 minutes and stay with me for 72 hours or until the offending food(s) exits my anus. Of course, the food and drug industries don't want us doing this because it will quickly put them out of business - as soon as enough people make the switch.
As I wrote before, this doesn't work for most people. Yes, everyone should eat well, but most people require medical treatment for severe depression. It is also rude of you to keep posting this. It is very unempathetic to people who will never be able to "cure" their disorders with food alone.
did it really work? I am on my second day eating food without additives and also lower carb. (potatoes, but not any grains anymore). I am looking for hope.
Cured 40 years of depression accidentally by going on the carnivore diet. All my inflammation went away and my depression went with it. Siblings followed and the same happened for them. Crazy!!!
@@user-Tn2Dnwhat did you eat through out the day?
I am reading more along these lines.
A MD says that sugar, processed food, and insufficient fiber will damage the body. And over years can cause chronic diseases.
So I believe firmly in what you are saying.
If negative ruminations strengthen negative pathways can positive thoughts work in the reverse ? Are thoughts like exercises for the brain ?
Fascinating. Your discussion on rumination reminded me of obsessive thoughts in OCD. Is there any connection or overlap? Does the method of mapping of brain pathways you find in depression (and TMS) help with any other conditions such as anxiety?
One of the best content... I have come through.
Me and many members of my family suffer of depression. I have mixed fellings about this episode. I don't know when this treatments will get to be available in my country or if would be affordable for us.
I going through a hard episode and I feel terrible and with zero enthusiasm for the future.
Methylene blue - MAOI - ua-cam.com/video/W4tXqcXeHHM/v-deo.html
This is the best I have ever seen. I have bipolar. Hell on earth. Right now a bit better.
People reading my comment can try this: Lightly drum the back of your head (the crown part) with your index and middle finger. It works! I do it sometimes. I think it stimulates parts of the brain that controls mood. The sensation is definitely calming.
Exceptional presentation on depression - I concur regarding a lot of what was said in my own experiences with hundreds of depression sufferers.
Sadly, overall, the western world is getting more and more depressive - and certain minds and brains can't handle the hopelessness of the systems we live under.
Certainly some sort of mechanical / stimulation therapy to the brain to bypass the emotional trauma would be extremely helpful. And potentially without the disturbing side affects of SSRIs and the like.
Fascinating! Love the fourth “fold”. Since our domestic animals (the meat we eat) have been selected for passivity could eating this meat decrease the flight & increase folding.?
What an observation! Can you prod someone into researching this idea?
Wow. So many gems in this video. Just wow!
Very interesting conversation, I especially like the concept of attractor states, that would be a useful concept in therapy. My only question is: is it actually brain that becomes depressed?
These videos are excellent. Thank you, David Eagleman! I have "studied" neuroscience (as a lay person, mind you - just very interested) and psychology, etc etc. and never heard of the concept of "folding!" It is very helpful when thinking about depression. In the video your fascinating discussion about the use of TMS to push people out of deep depression made me wonder if there is a method for those of us who suffer a lesser form of depression to do a similar thing for ourselves without technology? Would some sort of limbic system retraining accomplish that? What about limbic system retraining in general? Thank you, again, for your work to get science out to the public.
getting ro understand more about my sons' depression. Thanks.
How about fix their diet which fixes their gut, inflammation, etc and supplement to restore nutrient deficiency and heal the nervous system?
Hi David thanks for another insightful podcast. I was wondering if you ever looked at the psychological impact of the Monetary system on the modern Man
I highly recommend Lion's mane mushrooms
I bought it but haven't tried it yet . I just started some new supplements , so after we a week I'll try this lions mane