Omg seriously .. The girl who heard from the neighbor etc .. When she says " I think his name was maybeeeee Adnan?" ... Like seriously?? She knows exactly what his name is ... You know shes looked into this case ... You know she knows his name... Maybe not back then but at the time of this phone call she did! She would have sounded more believable of she said "maybbeeee Aiden or something" ... Adnan is not a name you guess. Come on
Logan Hensley Yeah, I was really surprised Sarah didn't question her about that...or at least provide some kind of note of context to listeners about it. It was odd.
I’ve the light since the podcast came out jay was complicit, whether adnon was involved or not. I’d say adnon is innocent but who knows, the case was so poorly handled by the defense
Imo they both in on it Jay was the help but got smarter and realized he needed to save his butt & is a free man living in Houston. Adnan will die inside prison. RIP Hae 🙏🏽
I was thinking the same thing. I'm currently studying criminal justice, specifically forensics investigation, and I kept wondering, "WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE A DNA TEST ON EVIDENCE COLLECTED FROM THE VICTIM!?!?" Test fingernail scrapings taken from Hae, the saliva from the whiskey bottle, the fibers of the rope, etc. Sloppy forensics work >:/
It's like once Jay came forward they didn't try anything else, even when he's telling different stories. Honestly Jay could've killed her. Maybe he was jealous that Adnan was friends with Stephanie. Maybe Jay paid someone. Maybe Don and Jay did it and knew exactly who to pin it on. Or maybe dude is just guilty. The thing is, how can they know without really any physical evidence? His fingerprints in the car really isn't enough. Even some fingerprints in or near the trunk would say something. Also Jay said stuff was taken from the trunk, where are those items? I'm not sure if they even proved the body was in the trunk? She doesn't mention it or anything. You can't overlook that Jay knew where the car was, or where the body was buried, but there might be a different reason why. I find it weird they believe Don has an ironclad alibi, when his mom is the manager. That wouldn't have flown without Jay coming forward. To get to your point more, I totally agree with you. She wasn't buried for long. There should have been some evidence on the body. If you manually used your hands, there should be impressions of some sort. Even if you used a rope, there'd be a high chance of skin cells under the fingernails, because your either going to be fighting or putting your hands near your throat. Strangling someone from the front seat you'd have to be awfully close....so what about fibers and hairs...why not go more in depth, they are obviously there for a reason? Like she said, you are supposed to present the strongest case. Having forensics linked to your suspect is a slam dunk. She doesn't go into the forensics much, but she mentions a lot, so I'm not sure if there just wasn't much, or she doesn't go into it all.
They just tested for DNA evidence and found NOTHING....But Adnan did say something interesting last episode, along the lines of "It sucks I'm the one who got arrested. Like if there was video evidence of me, or if Hae fought back and there was DNA of me, like scratches..." IF Adnan did do it, maybe he knew there was no video evidence AND Hae didn't fight back, like she just kicked and attempted to say sorry. Hae was smart but she was still a teenager who had strong moods back and forth, and had teen girl tendencies and maybe didn't know her life was about to end. BUT at the same time it takes awhile to choke someone to death you know. The main thing for me is who the fuck would choke Hae long enough to kill her. Some say it takes 1 min 30 seconds, idk if that's accurate, but if that's the case she would have gone limp long before that unless he was choking her by restricting air to her lungs and not blood to her brain.
This angers me for 2 reasons 1. Hae’s family deserves justice. They deserve to know exactly what happened to their daughter. They deserve the truth. And it’s the state’s responsibility to give them that closure. 2. Adnan deserves a fair trial. The evidence is just so insufficient. There’s no way that you can say he’s guilty with such flimsy evidence. There HAS to be more information
I disagree. To me, she comes across as pseudo-naïve and suspiciously rosy when it comes to believing defendants. She said she basically just believes people if they say they didn't do it. That seems disingenuous. Whether or not you believe someone, or however strong or weak the case, even someone who says they may have done it deserves the counsel of a good lawyer to ensure due process and a fair trial, if it gets to that.
i really think the true killer is someone who no even interviewed or got called in once but just flew under the radar honestly i think that’s more terrifying then Adnan doing it because now that could mean that person is still killing and they’re probably still alive and well
@@fatuma6753 shut up, by that logic OJ is innocent too.. jay knew hae car, her clothes , so much details..the sheer risk of having nothing to do with it and going to cops with a full story is crazy, surely jae was an accomplice...nd why would he blame adnan, wat reason could jay or an accomplice have for killing hae..how would they even get acess to her she was driving in a car not walking...its prepostorous..of course adnan did it
@@27sadhu i made that comment over a year ago as a theory but it is possible for the killer to have flown under the radar. no where in my original comment did i mention OJ.....but i definitely still believe that jay is still apart of it. idk if i’m 100% right since it’s been a whole year but from what i remember there wasn’t a very strong case against adnan in the first place. i think they just kind of wanted the case closed and rushed to find any evidence to pin the crime on him.
@@fatuma6753 there was enough to convict him...not in every case u gonna have a person on video murdering someone..u have to put toghether the facts and convict..he literally called her thrice the night before and never called her again..the cell phone is places at burial site leakin park by call records that evening..no doubt about that...now who else had adnan's cellphone? cathy,jen multiple people saw them together that evening..they were in leakin park burying hae body..end of story..little inconsistencies will always be there, these are young immature teens they dont know how to talk to the cops
It's odd that they say "I've found no evidence that he was mad" (about the breakup). But there is a letter from Hae telling him that she doesn't like the way things are, that people break up all the time, that he should just move on and respect her decision. That seems to suggest that she had moved on with this Don guy and that Adnan was not taking the breakup well.
You have to look at the human behavior of the individual to really find a thread to pull to get to the point of determining he’s capable of murder. There are signs, even slight ones that can lead you to the conclusion there is an iota of a possibility they are capable. Murder is an extreme mental hurdle for a human to jump over. Adnan had zero signs, he was a normal teenager, had empathy for his fellow students and friends, he was caring to Hae during their relationship and did nothing himself to drive her away, but rather the culture of his family drove her away. By all accounts he was distraught but still functioning normal and was talking to other girls. The cell phone maps and the faulty memory of Kristy and Jenn were proved in the documentary. Relying on anyones memory to convict someone of murder is utterly ridiculous. A humans memory is incredibly erroneous. Especially if you try to recall things that really had no significance. There was more than enough reasonable doubt to not convict Adnan. The jury was manipulated by failing to disclose all evidence and instead the state only provided portions of evidence that fit their narrative. They wanted to “win” which most attorneys get wrapped up in and disregard the effects of how the win will affect another human being.
What I don’t understand is how Adnan couldn’t have been involved if Jay was involved and he spent large parts of the day with Jay. Like what’s his explanation for that? That Jay only got involved after and is covering? That Jay was juggling chilling with him and killing Hae and hiding the evidence? Is he claiming that he spent the time Hae was murdered with Jay? He says he doesn’t remember the day, but that just sounds like a convenient way of not accidentally getting answers confused.
It’s like Sarah says in the beginning of the podcast, do YOU know what you did exactly two months ago? What did you have for breakfast etc.? Now imagine being a teenager being asked such. Memory recollection is poor witness, especially when you’re dealing with someone like jay who is known by the majority of people who know him as someone who’s known to tell stories/white lies/tall tales etc. If a friend of someone like this is charged with murder and questioned, ab attention seeking young adult isn’t necessarily mature enough to be professing witness as factual. I’m not saying adnan is innocent but jay is 100% not a credible witness
This is the number one thing that's making me doubt Adnan, I feel like most of the other things can be explained away by coincidence/time/being high af, but this just makes him AND Jay look guilty af
17-18 years old he’s not going to really account for these days now, he’s 36-37 now. I don’t believe he did it. No DNA is tested and how vague they went about this case is crazy to me.
Dude. Cause he was a stoner.. He either dont remeber shit.. Or remebers everything.. Theres no inbetween. Mostly everyone i encounter remember everything. Js
he keeps saying it was ordinary day...no it was an extraordinary day, not everyday youget a call from cops regarding a close friends disappearance..he says he didnt think much of it just that hae mom be so angry..but Cathy clearly remembers him panicking what am i gonna say what am i gonna do..anyways forget cathy, its not the first time he was stoned, it was such a important event he going missing, how the hell does he conveniently not remeber anything
Well except for the fact Justin Wolfe admitted he did it in 2016 and SERIAL season 1 was released in 2014 meaning she had no way of knowing he would later admit guilt
Personally think Adnan is innocent, definitely think he should not have been found guilty due to such little evidence. A few things do bug me about Adnan: 1. He didn’t contact Hae after she went missing. If you were close to her, surely you would reach out? 2. Police call you and you can’t reference the activities of that day? It’s a well known fact that out of the ordinary events makes those days/time periods much more memorable than other run of the mill days.
Mo Mo it happened almost 20 years ago now. If he said he remembered exactly what happened that day, I’d call him a liar. It’s much easier to believe he simply can’t remember. Hell, ask me what happened last week and I won’t be able to tell you. You’re asking someone to recall 20 minutes of a specific day 20 years ago in perfect detail with evidence and a reliable alibi. It doesn’t even seem humanly possible to do that. And I’m not saying Adnan did nothing. I think there’s a lot more to the story but I don’t think he killed Hae. Jay is much deeper in this plot than he’s letting on. Something is really off about that guy
i feel like with what everyone else is saying and the fact that nobody else had a motive to do it Adnan definitely did it or hired Jay to do it. I just cant see it being possible he was innocent with all we know
@@SuperMegaGoofyGoober have you watched the HBO documentary ‘The Case against Adnan Syed’? If not, you should watch it! There’s 4 episodes. Opened my eyes up to a lot of things.
@@paigealyssa8332 then wasn't it claimed she never showed up at her job at Lenscrafters that day too? How many places was this girl supposed to be? Picking up a cousin...meeting a boyfriend...going to a wrestling meet...going to work...
Omg, this attorney is asking all the questions I've been asking since the beginning! Why look at the ex-bf? Why not the new guy? It's always someone close to the victim who had motive, yes, but also the opportunity to commit the crime. Wasn't she going to meet up with her new guy the day she was killed? It's crazy how this was overlooked.
They looked at both the new boyfriend and Adnan. The new boyfriend was at work on January 13th and he was at work. The manager at Lens Crafts showed the work log. She was going to meet with him later the night after she got her cousin and after the wrestling match, she was manager. She never got her cousin which is why her family filed a missing person report. This was when the new boyfriend was at work
I've not heard one single word that would make believe this guy killed that girl. I'm sorry for her family. But I think they got the wrong man in prison.
oh gtfo..the simple truth is too unsexy for u eh? apparently he called her thrice the night before but never calls her again..no other person had motive or even oopportunity to kill hae she wouldnt have let anybody in her car..the note "i am going to kill"..jesus i can go on and on...but idiots like u will find one small thing inconsistent and scream oh look here i found something when all that proves is that jay is also human and out of protection of his friends n grany he made up a couple of lies
so im sitting here and before i started actually listening i thought adnan was innocent until i was given a paper that i would put evidence that adnan was innocent or guilty. i struggled more to find things that found him innocent when it was really easy to find facts that show him that he’s guilty
lol when she says oh maybe its a serial killer, huh no that is not a possibility, Jay gave the location of the car and admited to digging the hole...Sooooo A serial killer killed Hae, heyyyy I am just gonna randomly admit I dug the hole pfff something is wrong with peoples brain.
Ok, so I look at this episode as definitive proof that Sarah Koenig and her team are not being biased in this podcast. Can people please stop accusing this podcast of being biased towards Adnan’s innocence? Because if anything that’s just what people felt after they listened. That doesn’t mean or prove he is innocent. And people shouldn’t blame the serial podcast when Sarah was just expressing how she felt. Which again was at times she felt Adnan was innocent and others when she was sure he was guilty. In fact the only thing I think this series proves is that Adnan’s case was messy and there were mistakes made that could have answered more questions if carried out properly. But it still doesn’t mean Adnan is innocent.
I personally think Adnan is either guilty, or involved (maybe paid Jay to do it, and Adnan's part was to get Hae alone then help deal w the body). Another serial killer or random act of violence makes zero sense when you know for a fact Jay was involved, it was SOMEONE with a personal connection to Hae. BUT there is a ton of reasonable doubt, I do not think legally Adnan should have been convicted based on Jay's problematic testimony. It is not Adnan's burden to prove he is innocent - it is on the prosecution to prove he did it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
I can't get over the fact that this lawyer puts so much stock in defendants saying they didn't do it- that's beyond "naïve". I hate to point out the obvious, but people lie. It doesn't bode well that the attorney has, in her own words, "a tree hugger, everybody is innocent" view. Both the journalist and attorney lack objectivity in this case.
Think about the 5 Boys Central Park 5 who were convicted .. they even confessed a rape they didnt do... . The real guy came out whit the truth later. People get wrongfully convicted.
Its hard to know if he is innocent or guilty. Personally I think he is involved somehow but the real whacko part is how Jay escaped jail. Obviously he implicated himself.
Out of sheer curiosity (I'm new to this podcast's case, so this is an honest question), what evidence did she miss that supports the argument for Adnan's culpability?
A guilty person will come up with any lie and any excuse and any answer to explain why it wasn't him... Someone who is innocent will not do that .... They will simply say "I dont know... I dont know what tell you i can't explain that" Adnan is so clearly innocent.
UNKNOWN I completely disagree with u. There wasn’t enough evidence to say that he was guilty. And the fact that u called all Muslims liars is very offensive. U have no right to assume that and have u ever actually met a Muslim. They r nice ppl.
But wait.the girlfriend of Jay is called Stephanie, as in the prom princess who was mentioned in Hae Mins diary? Who was somehow dumped by Adnan to be with Hae? Crazy theory: Stephanie was in love with Adan and more than jealous of Hae, so she got somehow in contact with Jay, ending up planning to murder Hae Min and blaming it on Adan as a punishment? The dna found on the wheel in Haes car, could be Stephanies, who parked it there, so the story would make sense?
Sad to say what Deidra said you kind of ignored. You are more so attached to the idea of Adnan being innocent. You were offended that he disagreed that you knew him well, you seem to like him as a person (not saying romantically) and that's getting in the way of you really digging into the idea that he's guilty. The other side having lack of evidence is not evidence of innocence. It's a very difficult case because as I've said before, it seems eveybody is lying for one reason or another, but you need to take a break from speaking to Adnan on the phone and stick to the facts or lackthereof.
@@vincent2709 Circumstantial evidence has been enough to convict people. If there is an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence juries can convict.
Funny thing is Justin Wolfe finally admitted in 2016 that he did order the killing of his drug dealer Daniel. He plead guilty and was sentenced to 41yrs. Boy,he wasn't stupid again. This dude went from being on DEATH ROW to now having a 41yr sentence which usually leans ur eligible for parole in 20yrs and he's already served 15+years so within the next 5yrs he will be eligible for parole. This man doesn't know how lucky he is. Do u know how difficult it is to have a death sentence overturned and a new trial ordered? That almost never happens. His ass was dumb this time around, he knew he would be much better off just admitting the crime
He can’t explain about the phone call BECAUSE HE IS GUILTY. I was wondering when the race/ethnicity card would be played without a SHRED of evidence. This lawyer is ridiculous.
Gosh, Adnan sounds so sweet and charming it's hard to imagine him a killer. When I look at how big he is and his face I can imagine him a killer. I'm so torn. His voice is so good
I think Jay and Jenn were involved and Neisha is not credible being that she said that she talked to Jay at the porn shop that he didn't even work at and Jay lying tail said Adnan called Neisha in the car and he talked to her then. That makes the butt dial believable because Neisha may have gotten the time it happened wrong but she probably was right about only speaking to Jay at the porn store and not any other time. How could they not see Jay was the culprit?
I am reading up on this Justin Wolfe case and its a problematic comparison. Wolfe later plead guilty to this crime and is in prison. In any event, Jay had no reason to kill Hae. He had to be involved to some degree because, among other things, he knew where her car was. Despite the inconsistencies in his testimony, the only logical conclusion to come to is that Adnan did it.
Both Jay and Adnan planned on killing Hae and Jay snitched to save himself. I'm pretty sure Adnan is a narcissist who felt disrespected by Hae dumping him and dating another guy.
Serial killer? It was either Jay, Adnon, or Jay and Adnon. Right ???? Why on earth are they looking outside of anything other than Jay’s crazy story. Cell phone towers, pinged out at the park where she was buried from both of their phones.
So Adnan is innocent because he didn’t seem mad after the breakup? Sounds as if ur protecting him and focusing purely on Jay’s story excluding Adnan all together. Smh I think it’s obvious they both were in on it
I had to stop listening to this podcast. This Sarah is trying so hard to put Adnan in innocent light it rediclious. Go head, keep on defending murderers.....so pathetic
Omg seriously .. The girl who heard from the neighbor etc .. When she says " I think his name was maybeeeee Adnan?" ... Like seriously?? She knows exactly what his name is ... You know shes looked into this case ... You know she knows his name... Maybe not back then but at the time of this phone call she did! She would have sounded more believable of she said "maybbeeee Aiden or something" ... Adnan is not a name you guess. Come on
And it was months into the trial.
IKR! I was thinking the same thing. That doesn’t make him innocent or guilty but it makes her look guilty.
Exactly what i said she clearly has info on the case prior to that question
Logan Hensley Yeah, I was really surprised Sarah didn't question her about that...or at least provide some kind of note of context to listeners about it. It was odd.
It's a name u guess if u heard it but wasn't sure for a moment bc it's not a common name.
Finally, we look at Jay in detail. He's bothered the fuck out of me ever since ep. 1.
I’ve the light since the podcast came out jay was complicit, whether adnon was involved or not. I’d say adnon is innocent but who knows, the case was so poorly handled by the defense
Imo they both in on it Jay was the help but got smarter and realized he needed to save his butt & is a free man living in Houston. Adnan will die inside prison. RIP Hae 🙏🏽
haha ! same man same
I personally believe Jay did it and framed Adnan because of his jealousy over Adnan's closeness to Jays girlfriend
@@lstruggyAdnan has been released due to DNA evidence.
why is the beat so hard? that mug slap lol
Big fax offset needs thus beat
I was thinking the same thing. I'm currently studying criminal justice, specifically forensics investigation, and I kept wondering, "WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE A DNA TEST ON EVIDENCE COLLECTED FROM THE VICTIM!?!?" Test fingernail scrapings taken from Hae, the saliva from the whiskey bottle, the fibers of the rope, etc. Sloppy forensics work >:/
It's like once Jay came forward they didn't try anything else, even when he's telling different stories. Honestly Jay could've killed her. Maybe he was jealous that Adnan was friends with Stephanie. Maybe Jay paid someone. Maybe Don and Jay did it and knew exactly who to pin it on. Or maybe dude is just guilty. The thing is, how can they know without really any physical evidence? His fingerprints in the car really isn't enough. Even some fingerprints in or near the trunk would say something. Also Jay said stuff was taken from the trunk, where are those items? I'm not sure if they even proved the body was in the trunk? She doesn't mention it or anything. You can't overlook that Jay knew where the car was, or where the body was buried, but there might be a different reason why. I find it weird they believe Don has an ironclad alibi, when his mom is the manager. That wouldn't have flown without Jay coming forward. To get to your point more, I totally agree with you. She wasn't buried for long. There should have been some evidence on the body. If you manually used your hands, there should be impressions of some sort. Even if you used a rope, there'd be a high chance of skin cells under the fingernails, because your either going to be fighting or putting your hands near your throat. Strangling someone from the front seat you'd have to be awfully close....so what about fibers and hairs...why not go more in depth, they are obviously there for a reason? Like she said, you are supposed to present the strongest case. Having forensics linked to your suspect is a slam dunk. She doesn't go into the forensics much, but she mentions a lot, so I'm not sure if there just wasn't much, or she doesn't go into it all.
why havent u uploaded in like 6 yrs
It doesn’t seem like finding the truth. It was about building a case against their suspect.
They just tested for DNA evidence and found NOTHING....But Adnan did say something interesting last episode, along the lines of "It sucks I'm the one who got arrested. Like if there was video evidence of me, or if Hae fought back and there was DNA of me, like scratches..." IF Adnan did do it, maybe he knew there was no video evidence AND Hae didn't fight back, like she just kicked and attempted to say sorry. Hae was smart but she was still a teenager who had strong moods back and forth, and had teen girl tendencies and maybe didn't know her life was about to end. BUT at the same time it takes awhile to choke someone to death you know. The main thing for me is who the fuck would choke Hae long enough to kill her. Some say it takes 1 min 30 seconds, idk if that's accurate, but if that's the case she would have gone limp long before that unless he was choking her by restricting air to her lungs and not blood to her brain.
This angers me for 2 reasons
1. Hae’s family deserves justice. They deserve to know exactly what happened to their daughter. They deserve the truth. And it’s the state’s responsibility to give them that closure.
2. Adnan deserves a fair trial. The evidence is just so insufficient. There’s no way that you can say he’s guilty with such flimsy evidence. There HAS to be more information
Im actually really impressed by this attorney. She has some very interesting points of wisdom, which can only come from a lot of experience.
Macy Love same. This is my fave episode.
IMO the thought process of this attorney serves to illuminate the inadequacy of Koenig as an "investigative journalist".
I disagree. To me, she comes across as pseudo-naïve and suspiciously rosy when it comes to believing defendants. She said she basically just believes people if they say they didn't do it. That seems disingenuous. Whether or not you believe someone, or however strong or weak the case, even someone who says they may have done it deserves the counsel of a good lawyer to ensure due process and a fair trial, if it gets to that.
She’s not an attorney. She’s a journalist. She says so in the first episode.
@@ivylayne1649 she’s referring to the guest, not the series host.
And Adnan is a free man today. Crazy looking back on all this. Thank you for putting this all together. What a story.
Being innocent and accused of something is the most frustrating thing imaginable. Sometimes you can't prove there's something you DIDN'T do
You’d remember that day, come on
I have a feeling that the murderer is not someone relevant in this case and out of fear Jay testified against Adnan to get his name out
i really think the true killer is someone who no even interviewed or got called in once but just flew under the radar honestly i think that’s more terrifying then Adnan doing it because now that could mean that person is still killing and they’re probably still alive and well
Jay knows where Hae’s car is...
@@fatuma6753 shut up, by that logic OJ is innocent too..
jay knew hae car, her clothes , so much details..the sheer risk of having nothing to do with it and going to cops with a full story is crazy, surely jae was an accomplice...nd why would he blame adnan, wat reason could jay or an accomplice have for killing hae..how would they even get acess to her she was driving in a car not walking...its prepostorous..of course adnan did it
@@27sadhu i made that comment over a year ago as a theory but it is possible for the killer to have flown under the radar. no where in my original comment did i mention OJ.....but i definitely still believe that jay is still apart of it. idk if i’m 100% right since it’s been a whole year but from what i remember there wasn’t a very strong case against adnan in the first place. i think they just kind of wanted the case closed and rushed to find any evidence to pin the crime on him.
@@fatuma6753 there was enough to convict him...not in every case u gonna have a person on video murdering someone..u have to put toghether the facts and convict..he literally called her thrice the night before and never called her again..the cell phone is places at burial site leakin park by call records that evening..no doubt about that...now who else had adnan's cellphone? cathy,jen multiple people saw them together that evening..they were in leakin park burying hae body..end of story..little inconsistencies will always be there, these are young immature teens they dont know how to talk to the cops
It's odd that they say "I've found no evidence that he was mad" (about the breakup). But there is a letter from Hae telling him that she doesn't like the way things are, that people break up all the time, that he should just move on and respect her decision. That seems to suggest that she had moved on with this Don guy and that Adnan was not taking the breakup well.
That's probably coz he was being stubborn about it like he mentioned earlier like saying they can work things out and she was annoyed with that
Plus the 3 late calls the night before the murder.
Says jay ☝️
That "nice guy" comment really struck a nerve.
You have to look at the human behavior of the individual to really find a thread to pull to get to the point of determining he’s capable of murder. There are signs, even slight ones that can lead you to the conclusion there is an iota of a possibility they are capable. Murder is an extreme mental hurdle for a human to jump over. Adnan had zero signs, he was a normal teenager, had empathy for his fellow students and friends, he was caring to Hae during their relationship and did nothing himself to drive her away, but rather the culture of his family drove her away. By all accounts he was distraught but still functioning normal and was talking to other girls. The cell phone maps and the faulty memory of Kristy and Jenn were proved in the documentary. Relying on anyones memory to convict someone of murder is utterly ridiculous. A humans memory is incredibly erroneous. Especially if you try to recall things that really had no significance. There was more than enough reasonable doubt to not convict Adnan. The jury was manipulated by failing to disclose all evidence and instead the state only provided portions of evidence that fit their narrative. They wanted to “win” which most attorneys get wrapped up in and disregard the effects of how the win will affect another human being.
I really like the theme song
What I don’t understand is how Adnan couldn’t have been involved if Jay was involved and he spent large parts of the day with Jay. Like what’s his explanation for that? That Jay only got involved after and is covering? That Jay was juggling chilling with him and killing Hae and hiding the evidence? Is he claiming that he spent the time Hae was murdered with Jay? He says he doesn’t remember the day, but that just sounds like a convenient way of not accidentally getting answers confused.
It’s like Sarah says in the beginning of the podcast, do YOU know what you did exactly two months ago? What did you have for breakfast etc.? Now imagine being a teenager being asked such. Memory recollection is poor witness, especially when you’re dealing with someone like jay who is known by the majority of people who know him as someone who’s known to tell stories/white lies/tall tales etc. If a friend of someone like this is charged with murder and questioned, ab attention seeking young adult isn’t necessarily mature enough to be professing witness as factual. I’m not saying adnan is innocent but jay is 100% not a credible witness
They both guilty jay w the accessory in helping made a deal and now jay is free and Adnan will be doing interviews inside prison forever
This is the number one thing that's making me doubt Adnan, I feel like most of the other things can be explained away by coincidence/time/being high af, but this just makes him AND Jay look guilty af
Jay set him up
@emaleagreaves8107 if it's a day you're helping someone kill your ex I think you'd remember that day forever
17-18 years old he’s not going to really account for these days now, he’s 36-37 now. I don’t believe he did it. No DNA is tested and how vague they went about this case is crazy to me.
Anyone else here for class lol
yes
What class?
Daytona Says What?! English II
Greg Gold Why are they making you watch this?
Daytona Says What?! My Ap class has an active listening section so we are listening to it
Dude. Cause he was a stoner.. He either dont remeber shit.. Or remebers everything.. Theres no inbetween. Mostly everyone i encounter remember everything. Js
he keeps saying it was ordinary day...no it was an extraordinary day, not everyday youget a call from cops regarding a close friends disappearance..he says he didnt think much of it just that hae mom be so angry..but Cathy clearly remembers him panicking what am i gonna say what am i gonna do..anyways forget cathy, its not the first time he was stoned, it was such a important event he going missing, how the hell does he conveniently not remeber anything
Considering Justin Wolfe ended up admitting his role in that Virginia case, this just gets wackier and wackier by the episode
What was his role?
Well except for the fact Justin Wolfe admitted he did it in 2016 and SERIAL season 1 was released in 2014 meaning she had no way of knowing he would later admit guilt
Personally think Adnan is innocent, definitely think he should not have been found guilty due to such little evidence.
A few things do bug me about Adnan:
1. He didn’t contact Hae after she went missing. If you were close to her, surely you would reach out?
2. Police call you and you can’t reference the activities of that day? It’s a well known fact that out of the ordinary events makes those days/time periods much more memorable than other run of the mill days.
Mo Mo it happened almost 20 years ago now. If he said he remembered exactly what happened that day, I’d call him a liar. It’s much easier to believe he simply can’t remember. Hell, ask me what happened last week and I won’t be able to tell you. You’re asking someone to recall 20 minutes of a specific day 20 years ago in perfect detail with evidence and a reliable alibi. It doesn’t even seem humanly possible to do that. And I’m not saying Adnan did nothing. I think there’s a lot more to the story but I don’t think he killed Hae. Jay is much deeper in this plot than he’s letting on. Something is really off about that guy
I don’t know if if he did it or not but I don’t think there was enough evidence to put him away one testimony and some cell records
Her boyfriend don didn’t contact her either so I don’t think that’s something to hold him against with
i feel like with what everyone else is saying and the fact that nobody else had a motive to do it Adnan definitely did it or hired Jay to do it. I just cant see it being possible he was innocent with all we know
@@SuperMegaGoofyGoober have you watched the HBO documentary ‘The Case against Adnan Syed’? If not, you should watch it! There’s 4 episodes. Opened my eyes up to a lot of things.
Why did Hae say she needed to rush off after school to meet her bf... if her bf was still at work at lenscrafter
And I thought she was in a rush to pick up her cousin from school then go to the wrestling meet
Yes she was going to pick her cousin up but I heard them say she was going to meet her boyfriend too
@@paigealyssa8332 then wasn't it claimed she never showed up at her job at Lenscrafters that day too? How many places was this girl supposed to be? Picking up a cousin...meeting a boyfriend...going to a wrestling meet...going to work...
Omg, this attorney is asking all the questions I've been asking since the beginning! Why look at the ex-bf? Why not the new guy? It's always someone close to the victim who had motive, yes, but also the opportunity to commit the crime. Wasn't she going to meet up with her new guy the day she was killed? It's crazy how this was overlooked.
They looked at both the new boyfriend and Adnan. The new boyfriend was at work on January 13th and he was at work. The manager at Lens Crafts showed the work log. She was going to meet with him later the night after she got her cousin and after the wrestling match, she was manager. She never got her cousin which is why her family filed a missing person report. This was when the new boyfriend was at work
I don't know whether Adnan did it or not. But I know he shouldn't be in prison, because there was simply not enough evidence.
agreed
I've not heard one single word that would make believe this guy killed that girl. I'm sorry for her family. But I think they got the wrong man in prison.
oh gtfo..the simple truth is too unsexy for u eh? apparently he called her thrice the night before but never calls her again..no other person had motive or even oopportunity to kill hae she wouldnt have let anybody in her car..the note "i am going to kill"..jesus i can go on and on...but idiots like u will find one small thing inconsistent and scream oh look here i found something when all that proves is that jay is also human and out of protection of his friends n grany he made up a couple of lies
so im sitting here and before i started actually listening i thought adnan was innocent until i was given a paper that i would put evidence that adnan was innocent or guilty. i struggled more to find things that found him innocent when it was really easy to find facts that show him that he’s guilty
Same
lol when she says oh maybe its a serial killer, huh no that is not a possibility, Jay gave the location of the car and admited to digging the hole...Sooooo A serial killer killed Hae, heyyyy I am just gonna randomly admit I dug the hole pfff something is wrong with peoples brain.
Justin wolf admitted he was guilty later tho, The innocence project literally gets guilty people out of jail lol
I don't care though? Even one innocent person in prison is too many. I support them
Isn’t the theme song just calming?
yes
Ok, so I look at this episode as definitive proof that Sarah Koenig and her team are not being biased in this podcast. Can people please stop accusing this podcast of being biased towards Adnan’s innocence? Because if anything that’s just what people felt after they listened. That doesn’t mean or prove he is innocent. And people shouldn’t blame the serial podcast when Sarah was just expressing how she felt. Which again was at times she felt Adnan was innocent and others when she was sure he was guilty.
In fact the only thing I think this series proves is that Adnan’s case was messy and there were mistakes made that could have answered more questions if carried out properly. But it still doesn’t mean Adnan is innocent.
I personally think Adnan is either guilty, or involved (maybe paid Jay to do it, and Adnan's part was to get Hae alone then help deal w the body). Another serial killer or random act of violence makes zero sense when you know for a fact Jay was involved, it was SOMEONE with a personal connection to Hae.
BUT there is a ton of reasonable doubt, I do not think legally Adnan should have been convicted based on Jay's problematic testimony. It is not Adnan's burden to prove he is innocent - it is on the prosecution to prove he did it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
Jay’s just so suspect in this whole thing
The reporter has fallen in love with the condemned
I can't get over the fact that this lawyer puts so much stock in defendants saying they didn't do it- that's beyond "naïve". I hate to point out the obvious, but people lie. It doesn't bode well that the attorney has, in her own words, "a tree hugger, everybody is innocent" view. Both the journalist and attorney lack objectivity in this case.
Yes, they both probably would've thought that Bundy was innocent because he always said he was.
Anthony Westerman adnan has shitty evidence tho
well, generally it is innocent until proven guilty, so why would she put guilt there unless she's proven it
Think about the 5 Boys Central Park 5 who were convicted .. they even confessed a rape they didnt do... . The real guy came out whit the truth later.
People get wrongfully convicted.
Does Sarah have a crush on adnon? 😂
marilynn nesheiwat absolutely, at least a subtle one. It is why she misses so much evidence that clearly shows Adnan as guilty.
Its hard to know if he is innocent or guilty. Personally I think he is involved somehow but the real whacko part is how Jay escaped jail. Obviously he implicated himself.
Out of sheer curiosity (I'm new to this podcast's case, so this is an honest question), what evidence did she miss that supports the argument for Adnan's culpability?
Jaime Thomas give examples, please
Adnan*
Ms.L bring this comment up in class if you see this
DONE!
Aww
I'd rather wipe up cat vomit with a wet paper towel than listen to this thanks Karen Estus.
It’s crazy how the innocence project was founded by a party who participated in getting OJ off when he clearly did it, at minimum was complicit
There's a theory that OJs son actually did it
Free my boy adnan
RIP X AND ADNAN
Sean you are so sure he did it I wanna Hear your side because your comments are all over
Nah
Perhaps Jay paged/ texted Hae
A guilty person will come up with any lie and any excuse and any answer to explain why it wasn't him... Someone who is innocent will not do that .... They will simply say "I dont know... I dont know what tell you i can't explain that" Adnan is so clearly innocent.
UNKNOWN I completely disagree with u. There wasn’t enough evidence to say that he was guilty. And the fact that u called all Muslims liars is very offensive. U have no right to assume that and have u ever actually met a Muslim. They r nice ppl.
But wait.the girlfriend of Jay is called Stephanie, as in the prom princess who was mentioned in Hae Mins diary? Who was somehow dumped by Adnan to be with Hae? Crazy theory: Stephanie was in love with Adan and more than jealous of Hae, so she
got somehow in contact with Jay, ending up
planning to murder Hae Min and blaming it on
Adan as a punishment? The dna found on the
wheel in Haes car, could be Stephanies, who parked it there, so the story would make sense?
Adnan completely mine screwed this reporter.
He has her...
LMAO
Sad to say what Deidra said you kind of ignored. You are more so attached to the idea of Adnan being innocent. You were offended that he disagreed that you knew him well, you seem to like him as a person (not saying romantically) and that's getting in the way of you really digging into the idea that he's guilty. The other side having lack of evidence is not evidence of innocence. It's a very difficult case because as I've said before, it seems eveybody is lying for one reason or another, but you need to take a break from speaking to Adnan on the phone and stick to the facts or lackthereof.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty... when did circumstantial evidence become actual proof?
@@vincent2709 Circumstantial evidence has been enough to convict people. If there is an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence juries can convict.
Funny thing is Justin Wolfe finally admitted in 2016 that he did order the killing of his drug dealer Daniel. He plead guilty and was sentenced to 41yrs. Boy,he wasn't stupid again. This dude went from being on DEATH ROW to now having a 41yr sentence which usually leans ur eligible for parole in 20yrs and he's already served 15+years so within the next 5yrs he will be eligible for parole. This man doesn't know how lucky he is. Do u know how difficult it is to have a death sentence overturned and a new trial ordered? That almost never happens. His ass was dumb this time around, he knew he would be much better off just admitting the crime
So you're saying this attorney was full of shit? Imagine that.
You forgot to add that he the recanted his confession and said he was coerced into giving it
This episode really fustrated me.
What a waste this episode is.
He can’t explain about the phone call BECAUSE HE IS GUILTY. I was wondering when the race/ethnicity card would be played without a SHRED of evidence. This lawyer is ridiculous.
Carlos Rivero who
Gosh, Adnan sounds so sweet and charming it's hard to imagine him a killer. When I look at how big he is and his face I can imagine him a killer. I'm so torn. His voice is so good
He wasn't that big the be was a teen.
I think Jay and Jenn were involved and Neisha is not credible being that she said that she talked to Jay at the porn shop that he didn't even work at and Jay lying tail said Adnan called Neisha in the car and he talked to her then. That makes the butt dial believable because Neisha may have gotten the time it happened wrong but she probably was right about only speaking to Jay at the porn store and not any other time. How could they not see Jay was the culprit?
Smart attorney is smart.
She actually sounds completely clueless and ignorant.
Twigg4075 Agreed. I get the feeling 10 attorneys walked away from this case and show and this is the one Sarah clicked with and who shared her biases.
Mrs Cesareo gang
who’s here for english
Jay's testimony is fishy
I am reading up on this Justin Wolfe case and its a problematic comparison. Wolfe later plead guilty to this crime and is in prison. In any event, Jay had no reason to kill Hae. He had to be involved to some degree because, among other things, he knew where her car was. Despite the inconsistencies in his testimony, the only logical conclusion to come to is that Adnan did it.
Both Jay and Adnan planned on killing Hae and Jay snitched to save himself. I'm pretty sure Adnan is a narcissist who felt disrespected by Hae dumping him and dating another guy.
I thought Jay had Ahmads phone during track.
bruh Adnan did it no question. I feel bad for the family of Hae considering all the people this biased podcast convinced he is innocent
12:30
Serial killer? It was either Jay, Adnon, or Jay and Adnon. Right ???? Why on earth are they looking outside of anything other than Jay’s crazy story. Cell phone towers, pinged out at the park where she was buried from both of their phones.
Its adnan blonde idiot!!!
I'm enjoying this, but i could live without the harpsichord
He's guilty as f, this ep was a waste of time.
adnan is a bad seed
So Adnan is innocent because he didn’t seem mad after the breakup? Sounds as if ur protecting him and focusing purely on Jay’s story excluding Adnan all together. Smh I think it’s obvious they both were in on it
Is anyone else here for English class??
WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago WBEZ Chicago
I had to stop listening to this podcast. This Sarah is trying so hard to put Adnan in innocent light it rediclious. Go head, keep on defending murderers.....so pathetic
Maybe so, but still there’s clearly not enough evidence to put him in prison for life and that Jay guy shouldn’t have gotten off so easily
Sarah is in love with this killer
Ya lol 😂
23:00
hello pcss 2
He told me he did it.
And maybe you have a x boyfriend who killed his x
17:51
Fuck summer school
Racial profiling? Give me a fucking break.
racial profiling? usually is called instinct and is a correct feeling.
thats dumbbb racist 😒