My 'favorite' anything isn't really about what's objectively-'best.' If pressed on a favorite movie ever, I tend to say Much Ado about Nothing with Emma Thompson and all-star cast. Is it 'Best Shakespeare? 'Best Movie?' I dunno. It just always makes me happy, so I ...favor that.
Wrath vs. Undiscovered Country (vs First Contact) is the big debate of the franchise though. Peeking at thumbnails along the timeline it looks like Beyond is also ahead of Wrath? A bit more controversial, but I buy that in like ten years it will be a safe favorite too.
That was the original 'What Spock's never-mentined sibling?' erf. Burnham at least has a story. (I chalk up Star Trek V as a weird shared dream Kir, Spock and McCoy had getting lit at Yosemite, really. It begins and ends with 'Life is but a dream.' It makes more sense if you take it as the trio airing insecurities and projections and wishes in dreamscape that way.
I'm one of those crazy people who actually _likes_ Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and paid real money to see it in theaters for the 40th Anniversary screening. And it was great! The special effects really do look spectacular on the big screen, and that soundtrack fills the theater like it owns the place. One thing I especially like about TMP is that there's no scenery-chewing villain. Don't get me wrong, I love Khan (and Chang, and Kruge), but it feels like the success of TWOK meant that every Star Trek movie after it (except Star Trek IV, notably) needs a bombastic villain with an aggressive-sounding name and a dastardly plot. TMP eschews that for a vast, overwhelming entity that must be _explored_ and _understood_ rather than confronted and destroyed. It's Star Trek as fuck and I love it for that
I was one of those who stood in line around the block to see The Motion Picture when it came out. So many of the things that can appear "boring" now, were very exciting at the time. You could see the Enterprise like it was real for the first time, so those long tours of the Enterprise from without and within were part of the appeal. When you look at it now, in retrospect, with the whole series of films behind it, it does seem slow and not as good. But at the time, I really came out cheering at how good it was to see a Star Trek movie with modern (at the time) realistic effects.
I really like TMP, for me it's like 2001: A Space Odyssey combined with Star Trek and I love that. The story isn't that special, but its like a TOS episode and I watched the movie right after watching TOS so for me it was really cool to watch the same elements from the show translated into the big screen
Generations is one of my favorite TNG movies because at this point the writers had not yet forgotten that Data and Geordi were best friends. They spend almost no screen time in First Contact and Insurrection, and by the time Nemesis rolls around, even that last look and nod they give each other feels like Geordi could've been replaced by anybody else. A friend of mine warned me about watching Star Trek 2009, so I avoided it until curiousity got the better of me in 2011. I liked it. Creating a different timeline really was ingenious.
My dad always said that "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" would have made a great one-hour episode, and the only problem with it was that it was a two-hour movie.
To be fair, that's probably got something to do with it having been an expanded version of a script for the cancelled Star Trek Phase II, it actually *was* supposed to be a one-hour episode.
Yeah tmp is one of my favorite star trek movies, it would be my very favorite if it weren't for the fact that most of the first half just feels like waiting for the movie to start.
No one puts the Motion Picture last. They put Final Frontier last. That said, while TWOK is easily the best film, i'm ok with it not being number one, as Undiscovered Country was also decent. What's unforgivable is ranking any of the JJ Abrams monstrosities higher than the original crew. Sorry, but post 2005 Star Trek is simply NOT Star Trek.
The Borg Queen was a wonderful character, interpreted by an incredible actor, Alice Krige. What made her terrible was the fact that she was the BORG queen. It completely ruined the Borg for me. I wish there was no association to the Borg, because she really was a great villain.
I normally don't really watch ranking videos, but I just now noticed the new hairdo! It looks nice! I also like very much how the eyeshadow matches the hair so well c:
My aunt paid 2 dollars for us to see Nemesis in a theatre which only showed films which were already released on video... So the previews were for films like 10 years old. That theatre doesn't exist anymore.
By far my best memory of Nemesis was a brief exchange with the cute ticket taker where we recited the "Hail, hail, fire and snow" mantra from the Melvin Belli episode of TOS.
Call me basic but Khan is my favourite, it was one of the first Star Trek things I ever saw. I have watched it more times I can count and I love it that little bit more after each viewing, I can quote it from front to back, just one of my favourite movies of all time. Also it is by far Shatner’s best performance as Kirk, some of his lines actually make me tear up to this day.
Liking "Khan" the best does not make you basic. There's a reason most fans agree with you. The acting, the dialogue, the themes, the action, the emotional weight are so top notch, it's like a beautiful play. I would call you basic if you liked any of the JJ Abrams abominations the most.
It was well written, had a great villain, strong performances, a solid cast, just the right pace, ILM visual effects, it is still the best Star Trek film. Others I would name would be Search For Spock, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Nemesis, Insurrection and I liked the first film off the Kelvin timeline. The Wrath Of Khan is still the best of the films. It was everything The Motion Picture should have been. Many other Trek films were good, but none of them could reach the heights Khan achieved. Sometimes people will say that Khan wasn't the best just to strike up a debate.
"Time is the fire in which we burn." That line cut far deeper than Soran intented because of what had just happened to Picard's family and which he didn't know about.
Me, who has only seen the 2009 and 2013 movies: Yes this is definitely the video for me. I am 3 seconds in and have to like the video. It's what Jessie deserves.
Aah, hugs, flower, we'll have to soldier our way through the movies to be able to comprehend properly :) our likes shall stand our ground till the day comes!
I've actually only seen into darkness. Kinda liked it a lot though, certainly not perfect but a fun action romp with interesting, if not super developed, characters.
Undiscovered Country is my favorite too and was not expecting you to pick that as yours... "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the ORIGINAL Klingon".
The one thing I liked about Nemesis was at Data's funeral, when Riker's talking about how they met, but he couldn't remember the song Data was trying to whistle. Because...is there really a Trekkie out there worth their tricorder who didn't immediately yell out "POP GOES THE WEASEL!" at the screen?
Even if it didn't make sense for the character... come on, it's one for the fans. This was their last movie. Or better yet, BF should have started whistling Pop Goes the Weasel...but then screwed up at the same point Data did in Farpoint...have Picard finish it, smile to himself, and then walk off as the Next Gen fanfare swells!
I'm just glad I'm not the only Trek fan who likes Generations. Is it a perfect movie? Not at all. But it's a deeply emotional one that asks genuinely interesting questions about the human condition, and I actually like Kirk's unceremonious death because it shows how even our heroes are ultimately just people and it's their LIVES that have meaning, not how "cool" their deaths are.
Oh man, you instantly doubled my respect for your work by placing Undiscovered Country. It’s also my favorite, it is the moment of transition between the original and next generations, it’s the most mature Trek movie, and it has always been impressive.
I was about 12 and my parents and I went to see it in the theater, very excited. I'm a lifelong Trek fan. -- I nicknamed it "The Motionless Picture." I read the book shortly before or after I saw the movie, and it explains one embarrassing scene in the movie. -- "A good one hour episode" wouldn't be far off. -- The movie did have some cool stuff, just very uneven and they drew out the effects within V'ger way too much.
@@benw9949We always called it “ST: The Motion Sickness,” for those intensely overlong fly-bys of the Enterprise. I stood in a very long line to see this one, and it wasn’t really worth it, sadly.
Interesting list. Some pretty bold choices in it. This is mine, personally: 1. Wraith of Khan 2. The Voyage Home 3. The Undiscovered Country 4. First Contact 5. Star Trek Beyond 6. Star Trek (2009) 7. Search for Spock 8. Insurrection 9. The Motion Picture 10. Into Darkness 11. Nemisis 12. Final Frontier
I said something similar on on of Steve Shivers videos about Kirk's death. I actually disagree pretty strongly, I think it was a damn near perfect death for him. He had found paradise, but the galaxy called on him again, and so he went back to work. Through his actions, he saved not only the crew of the Enterprise, but an entire civilization on Veridian IV. He didn't know those people, but he did it anyway, because he's the captain of the Enterprise. To me, it's a perfect death for him, and that scene never fails to make me cry. (Generations was also my first Trek in theaters)
Imo kirk's death was only underwhelming cause the antagonist was underwhelming. It was very appropriate thematically and character wise with how we'd seen Kirk up to that point, but it was anticlimactic cause you don't really buy into the threat.
The biggest problem for me was the fact that there was a literal reset button on its way. I was actually expecting Kirk or Picard to say, "Well, things didn't really go our way this time. We should let the Nexus suck us up and then we can leave and try again." It was so at the forefront of my mind while I was watching the movie that it completely spoiled any of the emotion I might've gotten out of his death. As Kirk was saying his final words, I was busy thinking to myself, "You idiots had as many chances to get this right as you wanted, but we're really going to be stuck with the version where Kirk is dead and the Enterprise-D is destroyed?"
My favorite Star Trek movie is "First Contact". We have the Borg, we have the Enterprise E (the most beautiful Starship of this World) and we have time travel. It's such a good movie.
Main issue for me with First Contact is that Picard isn't the same character he is in the series, and there's a bit of continuity problems with his feelings on the Borg, considering episodes that came before that directly dealt with him overcoming his prejudice (I, Borg). He had the ability to completely destroy the Borg race with Hugh, but didn't take it. First Contact Picard would NEVER have missed that opportunity.
I get what you mean about the revenge plotline in _Wrath of Khan,_ but I guess I just never paid it as much attention. To me, it's really Kirk's movie: a man reaching middle age and having to deal with the consequences of decisions he made in his youth (also a deconstruction of the reputation he's built up around himself). Khan's lust for vengeance is only one part of that.
Oh you nailed it! If Eggs Benedict Comberbatch had played Kirk’s old friend instead of “Khan” the whole movie would be saved! Just remove Abram’s terrible, patronizing fan service and the movie could have been excellent!
Delighted when there are others who also put Undisovered Country as their number one Trek film. As for the full list of my personal rankings: Undiscovered Country Wrath of Khan First Contact The Voyage Home Search for Spock Beyond Generations 2009 Nemesis Into Darkness Insurrection The Final Frontier The Motion Picture
No 1 Undiscovered Country No 2 First Contact No 3 Star Trek III No 4 Star Trek II No 5 Star Trek Beyond No 6 Star Trek TMP No 7 Star Trek IV The Voyage Home No 8 Star Trek V The Final Frontier No 9 Star Trek 2009 No 10 Star Trek Generations No 11 Star Trek Insurrection No 12 Star Trek Nemesis No 13 Star Into Darkness I think I've not missed any ?
Love seeing The Undiscovered Country top any ranking video. It simply has everything. One interesting thing I've found over the years is Rodenberry and Shatner didn't like how prejudiced Kirk was shown to be against Klingons. I know that at least for Rodenberry he likes to portray humanity as perfect in his vision of the future but I love how Meyer threw that in the bin and recognised that as a film the main character needs their growth and progression to be visible to the audience. So what came out might not have been in line with Rodenberry's or Shatner's expectation for Kirk or humanity but I just love that it showed Kirk recognised his enmity for Klingons and overcome it by the end of the film that just captures the title Undiscovered Country so brilliantly.
I’d only swap first contact and undiscovered county. Mostly because first contact tells such a pivotal moment and one that sets everything in motion for the franchise and it gave us a holiday in April 5th.
The Voyage Home: the one that most captures the spirit of Trek on TV. It's got something for all the characters to do, it's got social commentary, no villain, no on-screen deaths, tackles some of the same themes as TMP (probe sent to Earth looking for a response, logic vs emotion), but it's fun. It, rather than TWOK, should have served as the model for future Trek films. That said, when other films tried to learn from it (The Final Frontier, Insurrection), they only took from it that it was a comedy, and their sense of humor was a tad meaner than this film. The Undiscovered Country: the most cinematic of the TOS films, it was a genuine genre-busting thriller, mashing up courtroom dramas, with prison escapes, comedies of manners, submarine films, etc. First Contact: as with TWOK, it mined its parent series for a villain and created a similarly claustrophobic thrill ride. The Wrath of Khan: we have it to thank for the rest of the franchise. It brought humanity back to Trek, which was sorely missing from the extremely sterile TMP. That's the lesson the other films should have taken from it, not that all Trek films should have a vengeance-fueled villain. The Search for Spock: Yes, this film was a bridge between TWOK and TVH, but was also an important world-building film, giving us spacedock, the Oberth and Excelsior class ships, the Klingon Bird of Prey, and shaped a lot of what Klingons and Vulcans would be like from here on out. Generations: most people say that Insurrection is the film that most resembles a TNG episode, but I think it's this film. It's not so much the plot or the stakes, but the format of the story. There's a high-stakes A plot with an observatory and star-killing device, with civilians we've never met at stake, and a more character-based B-plot with Data and his emotion chip. Study the stellar cartography scene for dialogue that exactly fits the format of the Berman era on television (characters alternate the technobabble of the A-plot with the emotions of the B-plot, in a very specific style that was always a bit unusual, and specific to Trek. Into Darkness had something similar with the Uhura/Spock dialogue in the shuttlecraft). That said, the movie in quite cinematic and big. It was ambitious for trying to tackle the idea that icons don't necessarily die in an epic fashion. I really appreciate when films try to do this, but a lot of fans just want their heroes to satiate their fantasies, which is why they tend to react so strongly against final arcs for characters as seen in The Last Jedi or Picard. Generations kind of laid the groundwork for stories like that and Logan, all of which I liked. Beyond: its placement here is deceptive. It's a really solid film and clearly the best of the Kelvin films. It's no accident that the Kelvin films had lower death counts as they progressed. Like TVH, it made sure to give the ensemble something to do. And yes, like that film, it had unusual pairings. The villain was also slightly more benign than the previous ones. When he looked at the shard of glass, I hoped that maybe this would be the rare film where he actually sought some redemption, but alas. The only other problem I had with it was the destruction of the Enterprise and the receipt of any 1701-A. In TVH, the A designation was really special. It was a reward for saving the entire planet from its own shortsightedness, as well as the crews status as legends in their own time for their two five-year missions. Into Darkness kind of set this up, since they said no one ever completed a five-year deep space mission before. So, the 1701-A here felt kind of unearned. It would have probably been better if the ship had somehow been repaired, rather than scuttled and replaced. 2009: this one was a good, decent thrill ride that had a really inventive way of setting a new path forward in Trek films. It also kind of eased the transition to the new crop of TV shows. The new shows are closer in design to the Trek universe as established pre-2009 than the Kelvin films were. The cast was a dynamic roster of performers and the movie was fast and fun. It just had the same problem even the best JJ Abrams films tend to have, they are fun in the moment, but dissolve in retrospect (it's kind of the opposite of Rian Johnson movies, where plot twists seem shocking in the moment but absolutely inevitable and organically derived from the characters in retrospect). Insurrection: it's an okay film, and generally inoffensive, except the planet being saved is a tad too Aryan. It did finally push the Riker/Troi relationship into something a bit more serious than the deeply close friends who sometimes make out in TNG. It's a film that was notorious for having a really troubled writing phase, documented in Piller's book "Fade In." The Final Frontier: the film immediately following TVH (though it took three years, rather than the then typical two), it tried two things the previous film did: use a Trek regular star as the director and inject the film with humor. But because it was Shatner, the humor was often at the expense of the rest of the crew. And the film definitely had a cheaper look to it. That said, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy stuff was pretty good, and it did feature some classic TOS battles with godlike beings. You're right that it has kind of a camp quality to it. The Motion Picture: I rank this below The Final Frontier because, as ambitious as it was, and as much as it wanted to tackle some big ideas, it's painfully dull. That's one of the biggest sins a movie could make. I've even considered seeing if I could tackle a re-edit of the film, as many have done with The Phantom Menace, or similar. And yes, it does feature the classic Roddenberry blind spot of some pretty sexist ideas. Nemesis: this is anothe ambitious failure that I'd be interested in taking on as an editing project. It could have been good, but Berman's another one with an even more notorious misogyny streak. It's not just the rape scenes, but stuff like the casual sexism of the Mr. Troi joke. We could have cut a bunch of the Kolarus III stuff in favor of the character-based deleted scenes, particularly the one between Picard and Crusher. She never got much to do, so it would have been nice to give her a send-off, at the very least. And the Geordi/Worf scene would have at least provided Geordi some closure that he still didn't get in Star Trek: Picard. That said, the show did kind of redeem the film somewhat. Into Darkness: this film also suffers from JJ syndrome. It fell apart upon further scrutiny in the time since I left the theatre. But it's biggest crime of all was whitewashing Khan. Orci's explanation was that he didn't want the terrorist to look like the opponent's in Bush's "War on Terror," he wanted Khan to "look like us." But what does "us" mean in the context of a global Star Trek audience? It's damning that often casting will allow diversity when it comes to characters that have no development or even lines, but when it comes to characters as complex and charismatic as Khan, they get scared to look outside of white actors. Cumberbatch wasn't even that big a star compared to lateral move Benicio Del Toro. And Cumberbatch has made a habit of playing underrepresented people in other films. The very least they could have done was go to Bollywood and look for a charismatic, athletic actor hungry to crossover to Hollywood who could speak English, and even already had a following. They could have even gone with the actor who played Robau. It was laziness in the extreme, especially considering Khan was originally a character called Harold Erickson, a Scandinavian, but Roddenberry changed it to Khan because not all genetic supermen need be Aryan fantasies. Aside from that, the film continues JJ's male gaze from 2009 with the Caitians and with the underwear scene. And Lindelof gave an interview where he said he had the Vengeance level San Francisco because the budget demanded a spectacle at that point in the film. It's a crass reason for such destruction. That said, I'm not too offended by the cribbing of TWOK dialogue. It had the function of making the fans that recognized it believe Kirk was going to die. It wasn't there because the writers were lazy. If I should be offended by it, it would be because it's manipulative, but then movies always are.
Deanna got this treatment too often even within the series though to a far smaller extent, it’s much too blatant in Nemesis. Weird how this video starts and ends (almost) with the worst and best with Troi, I loved Marina Sirtis getting to let her freak fly and have so much fun being funny while still being the amazing actress she is in First Contact.
I seem to remember Cumberbatch himself said that, too! I think it was the official line everybody was required to give to the media, regardless of how insulting that pathetic attempt at misdirection was to the audience's intelligence....
Jessie, how could you forget the true #1 Star Trek movie of all time, Galaxy Quest? Jokes aside, it a good list. I tend to put the first 2 reboot movies at the very bottom because I have issues with JJ and how me makes movies and Tv shows.
To be fair, there was a director's cut of ST: TMP that improved the quality of the movie somewhat. It was admitted that the original production was rushed. Still, agreed with Harlen Ellison's "The Motionless Picture" evaluation.
The unfortunate thing is that the Director's Cut was only edited with a DVD release in mind, so they didn't even create new effects or altered shots in 1080p, let alone 4K or 8K, which seems like an incredibly limited mindset for 2001. So, unless the studio wanted to completely re-do the Director's cut, we will never see it again, except low-quality DVD.
It is really kind of obligatory at this point. It's a classic movie, a great movie, but it's also approaching 40 years old. We can do better. We have the technology and technique.
I think the greatest sin of Nemesis, beyond all the wasted ideas it incorporated and failed to develop (as you mentioned), is that it is, in essence, the Wrath of Khan made a second time. Ok, there is a lot of added material padding out the start, but if you look at the later plot elements it really does quite closely follow the Wrath of Khan.
I probably would have put “Into Darkness” at the bottom, but you made good points about Nemesis. The bottom three I think are basically right and it’s just a matter of ordering. My only other big disagreement would probably be to put Generations much closer to the bottom.
Undiscovered Country was also my favorite. I loved that there weren't too many major action pieces (like the Kelvin timeline films) but instead a great mystery with Plummer chewing the scenery and all the tense dialogue and problem solving items throughout (the surgery on the photon torpedo especially!). I also loved the version of the Klingons portrayed in UC; this is probably why their portrayal in ST: Discovery rubs me the wrong way.
Jessie, great rankings and great analysis. I like that your list features some surprises, especially your elevation of Star Trek Beyond, a movie that I also loved. My favorite parts are also Jaylah and the great crew pairings. Spock and McCoy together was particularly satisfying. I too am a supporter of TMP. While imperfect (and of course the Ilia-Dekker stuff is even creepier now that we know bout Collins), maybe it's because I was eight years old and out of my head to see the crew of the Enterprise on a big screen, but I've always loved its vivid contemplativeness as we are reacquainted with everybody. Khan is my favorite, but I see the validity in your top choices, especially as you express your personal connection with each.
For me, it’s: 1. The Voyage Home (so funny, brilliant, meaningful and impactful) 2. The Undiscovered Country (I’m a Shakespeare fan) 3. The Wrath of Khan & First Contact (I can’t seperate these two, they’re both amazing in their own ways, Khan is a cinematic masterpiece and Contact is a masterful piece of story telling) Beyond that, I have no set order. It’s always changing.
Here's my personal list: 1. The Undiscovered Country 2. First Contact 3. Into Darkness 4. Nemesis 5. Insurrection 6. Star Trek (2009) 7. The Voyage Home 8. Generations 9. Beyond 10. The Wrath of Khan 11. The Final Frontier 12. The Search for Spock 13. The Motion Picture
I started watching your channel because you were saying nice things about DISCO and I am SO THRILLED that you put Undiscovered Country at the top of your list. It's far and away my favorite, it's one of my comfort movies, the score is incredible, and on and on and on!
My favourite Trek villains are Khan, the Borg Queen in First Contact, Commander Kruge in the Search for Spock, General Chang, Shinzon in Nemesis, Soran in Generations
The Wrath of Khan is my favorite, and I'd rank Insurrection higher and all the JJ films lower, but I like the points you made on the movies both pre-2009 and post-2009. Note: There's a Star Trek novel from way back which has a scene with young Jim Kirk very much like what was in the 2009 movie. I think the movie, er, "borrowed" it from there. The Sybok / god-like entity ("What does God need with a starship?") was a very mixed bag. My understanding is, Nichelle Nichols thought it was a hoot to show an older woman who has still got it, to dance and sing and tempt the bad-guy minions. Oh, and -- Riker looks way better in a beard. I personally hate to shave, but a beard tends to itch, so I stick with just a mustache, usually. Why is my comment all over the place, disorganized? :shrugs: Must be more tired than I thought.
Woah! Other than flipping IV and Beyond (let's be real, mostly because of Walter Koenig and James Doohan) this is my ranking too, and for many of the same reasons. I'd also say that Khan stays down where it is because of those earworms. I had a lot of infections when I was a kid and they FREAK ME OUT! Hair's looking fly btw.
Watched Wrath of Kahn last week for the umpteenth time but the moment Kirk went into engineering for his dying friend I simply couldn't, for me its still too soon. You lived long, you prospered and may you now rest in peace, Leonard Nimoy.
My favorite film from the kelvin timeline is beyond too! I absolutely loved all the character interactions especially Spock and McCoy. It was such a fun watch in the theaters and got me to check out the Star Trek shows which the other two in the trilogy didn’t get me to do
13: Insurrection 12: Nemesis 11: V: The Final Frontier 10: Into Darkness 9: I: Motion Picture 8: Generations 7: Star Trek (2009) 6: IV: The Voyage Home 5: Beyond 4: First Contact 3: III: The Search For Spock 2: VI: The Undiscovered Country 1: II: The Wrath of Khan
I am pleased to see Undiscovered Country getting some much-deserved love. :D Also, thank you for discussing *that* scene. It was on my mind when I recently watched your video review of Nemesis, because Undiscovered Country does also have a "mind violation" scene. I'm not sure if it's worse to have a well-written and plot-relevant scene, because it does contribute to justifying a problematic trope. :P On the other hand, UC does craft a needed feeling of dread and horror and avoids cheap titillation. My family had the VHS tapes of the original movies, and I saw them as preteen. I remember being very confused and unable to explain the vibe I was getting because the framing of this mind meld seemed so different from others I had seen in Star Trek.
lol I dont care how bad Final Frontier is, it has a special place in my heart. I was 10 at the time, and i think i was more excited with DC Comics adaptation, and seeing DC relaunch the TOS and TNG comics got me so excited. And I do go back to this film for a ton of re-watches. It just reminds me of a good ole fashioned TOS episode on the big screen.
I wish Uhura had more to do in Beyond, I understand that the classic trio is Kirk, Spock and McCoy and the movie was paying tribute to that, but I like that 2009 and Into Darkness had Uhura front and center and I wish they continued with that.
I must agree Undiscovered Country is my favorite Star Trek movie as well. Despite the drama and the tension in the movie, there are scenes that you can tell the actors are have fun.
Before I watch the video, here's my list: 1. Wrath of Khan (Yes, I know, I know.) 2. Search for Spock 3. Star Trek (Reboot) 4. Voyage Home 5. Undiscovered Country 6. Into Darkness 7. First Contact 8. Generations 9. Beyond 10. Motion Picture 11. Nemesis 12. Final Frontier 13. Insurrection This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure if you asked me again tomorrow, they'd be in a totally different order.
I watched all the Star Trek movies for the first time last year. Overall, I enjoyed them all but I will say the voyage home was probably my favourite just for the pure silliness of it.
In ST:V I always liked a few things: 1) Sybok was a good man. 2) It was the only movie in the franchise that I watched (didn't saw the kelvinverse after the first) tha dealt with exploration. 3) Sibok's solliloquy about fear being a great barrier was awesome. 4) In the book, at least, it made sense thattehe Enterprise and the Klingons crossed the barrier. Not so in the movie itself. ST III was the movie in which the crew showed how much better than everybody else they actually were. 1) They kidnapped McCoy, hijacked the Enterprse and sabotaged the Excelsior without a hitch. It took competence unparalleled. 2) They outhought the Klingons handily in their first exchange, until the patchwork repairs gave way 3) Kirk was the epitome of resilience in coming with a way to turn the tables on Kruge while grieving the death of his son. 4) Despite everything, Kirk tried to rescue Kruge. better angels indeed. Generations: 1) What can an outdated scout do against the flagship of the Federration? Blow it out of the sky. 2) The first act in the Ent-B was good, classig TOS action. I liked that. 3) Kirk's reading the riot act on Picard about seeing past the universe was good. ST VI had some flaws 1) agreed that Valeris was a huge mistake, it should be Saavik. 2) The Valeris assault. On top of everything else, it wasn't necessary. ten seconds after it failed, Spock came with a successful alternative. He should've led with that. And by the way, aren't there any laws in federation penal law or Starfleet regulations against this kind of behavior? 3) There were some childish parts that didn't work: Chekov was particularly weak, not noticing the ensign's feet. Or Uhura trying to translate Klingonese with paper dictionaries (wasn't she a top linguist?) 4) Why are phasers kept in the kitchen?
Our lists are pretty different, but the top two is the same! I’ve probably seen Undiscovered Country as many times as all the other movies combined lol. Also, love the hair!
As an old time Trekkie who grew up with TOS I was all set to pound out with my fists a very angry reply in ALL CAPS. But you did make a very good case for your ranking and it's hard to disagree with it. While I'd make a couple of changes to your lineup, overall it's not far off from mine.
13. Star Trek In To Darkness 12. Star Trek Beyond 11. Star Trek (2009) 10. Star Trek The Motion Picture 9. Star Trek Insurrection 8. Star Trek Nemesis 7. Star Trek First Contact 6. Star Trek Generations 5. Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Kahn 4. Star Trek 5 The Final Frontier 3. Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered County 2. Star Trek 3 The Search For Spock 1. Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home
Trio's storyline in Nemesis was something she was grateful for. It is offensive but it's supposed to be, sexual assault IS offensive. I think the film fails in that it doesn't deal with enough, it just pushes it aside. I like your take on these films, I'd love to see you also take production in to consideration, not just story and plot. Performances, production design, music, cinematography etc. Great video though.
I agree, ST VI is the best out of the bunch. Though I do have a secret love for ST TMP. I know I didn't see the movie in theater, so it must have been on laserdisc or betamax. Can't really explain why I love TMP, I just do. These days, I actually re-watch TMP more than any other ST film. Thanks for all of your thoughts, friend. :)
Absolutely. Me and my friends who hung out in the library at lunch playing Magic and talking Star Trek were always referred to as the cool kids. At least I assume we were. Nobody else ever talked to us.
I like your new haircut, that's very fun. I'm probably a bit dull, I like Wrath of Khan best, I think it maintains a really enjoyable tone and pace throughout that just works for me. Undiscovered Country I do like a lot, but I find the scenes on the prison planet to be a bit of a dull meander, so that pulls it down a bit for me. I think I prefer 4 to 6, in fact. I've not seen nemesis or Insurrection, the latter is next in line to be watched, but of the ones I've seen I'd say: 11: Final Frontier 10: Into Darkness 9: Generations 8: The Motion Picture 7: Star Trek 6: The Search For Spock 5: Beyond 4: First Contact 3: Undiscovered Country 2: Voyage Home 1: Wrath of Khan But that's just me
After the Generations segment I can only say this: WHAT ABOUT EMOTION CHIP DATA? Shit was adorable! Especially at the end when he finds Spot Emotional Data is the best every time he is on screen, I apologise for my agressive tone That being said, undiscovered country at the top is good taste _life forms_
I just realized that Generations is partially about Picard not having any further generations after all the respect he has for traditions. He is the end. (I will ignore Wesly being his child.)
I absolutely agree with you regarding your number one pick but I couldn't disagree with you more regarding your second place finish. Red Letter Media absolutely scorched Star Trek: First Contact - and I agree with him. I mean, if the Borg had the technology to go back in time why stop first contact? Why not go back further? Plus, if they can do this anywhere, why do they have to do it on Earth? Couldn't have done this in a completely different sector and launched a surprise attack that way? I'm curious to hear your thoughts about how Star Trek Enterprise handled T'Paul's trauma concerning her forced mind meld. Do you think they did it justice? If not, where do you feel they were short of the mark?
I would rank the Kelvin movies exactly the way you did as well. Beyond is so good because the cast feels so cohesive in that one and I love watching that. My heart is still so broken about Anton's passing.
We have the same top 2. But in reverse. My number one is First Contact. It encapsulates the whole idea of Star Trek in one film. works for long term fans and as an introduction to Trek. Patrick Stewart is amazing in it and the film score is one of the best produced ever. That theme gives me hope and inspires me every time I feel down. My number two is the Undiscovered Country, I just love the politics in it. Made at the same time DS9 was being incepted. That era produced greatness. It launched the 90s, the last progressive decade.
Khan will always be my favorite. I choose to rank the movies by the era. I personally hated all the JJ movies just wasn't personally my thing. Great video Jesse 👍
I love the Klingons in this. It's the perfect blend of warrior and society. While you clearly have different kinds of people: Diplomatic bents, workers etc. Yet all seem to be basic combat trained due to the warrior culture influence. At least that is the impression I get. "Oh I can take this shoulder spike and main you with it, but I am here for peace at this juncture."
@12:43 Strangely enough, I've felt exactly the opposite. This one, the first _Star Trek_ movie always seemed to me to be trying too hard. This was the big budget attempt by Gene Rodenberry to out-Star Wars _Star Wars,_ didn't quite make it. The other movies, especially Star Trek II, all felt more like expanded episodes of the TV series, with the plotting and the pacing, and just in general the way they were filmed.
Now, I'm very much a fan that ranks Wrath a lot higher (I alternate between that and 6 for my top Trek movie), but aside from that your ranking is very close to mine. I would have ranked Insurrection one or two steps higher, but that's about it when it comes to differences in rankings.
It wasn't Khan for me as a Klingon--but Chang. Best Klingon---sorry I'll always love you Worf (loved the cameo). :) Yes--great movie. Not so sure re a few other picks. Also I know it was goofy but I loved The Voyage Home. Also love the character of Dr Gilllian Taylor---love her standing up to Kirk, and besting him at times (just about never see this--sweeps women off their feet who just never say boo). I don't think I saw the Kelvin time line ones--honestly thought the concept was a little hokie but you get me wanting to see them. Fun video. Oh yes, I have a major bone to pick though---we need a tour of your collection. Damn that is sweet. Collection video please!!
Good afternoon Jessie, I think the movie touch each of us different LIKE YOU ASKED at the begging. Emotion are a large part of a movies success in my opinion. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Biggest problem with The Motion picture was that Gene Roddenberry wanted a special effects driven story. What made the series great was the character driven stories, that was missing from TMP. My number 1 is... Undiscovered Country. The novelisation by J. M. Dillard is great, builds the threat of the warbird that can fire while cloaked, the first scene in the book is a medical station on the edge of Federation space commanded by Carol Marcus, who is back in a relationship with Kirk and the station is destroyed. So also adds to Kirk's anti-Klingon feelings.
I perfectly respect your feelings on what you love about Trek. I personally love the Wrath of Khan because it broke the model at the time. In context it was the Star Trek (2009) of its time. Coming off the Flop that the Motion Picture was it lead to the revival of the series on television. The Wraith of Khan was also the first time Rodenberry did not have anything to do with a Star Trek production. It allowed someone other than Gene to make something official Trek for the big screen. Trek has the habit of getting mediocre in its productions and like you said forgets to explore and have fun with that exploration. Sometimes you have to hand the reins to someone else and see what he does with the product like they did with Dr. Who and Xena Warrior Prince when they switched producers. Making a continuity to Dr. Who worked on some levels like being more episodic helped explore Xena's characters more. Taking the viewers out of their comfort zones concerning their favorite series. Sometimes you have to rock the boat, shake the ship to get some new ideas or interest into something old. (I know as I hear the groans audibly on the internet)
Christopher Lloyd's Kruge the Klingon was the best Klingon adversary ever, and could have gone on to be Kirk's greatest enemy in another timeline. Kirk: You should take the Vulcan too. Kruge: No. Kirk: But why? Kruge: Because you wish it! Kruge gets it, man. Don't give Kirk an inch, or he'll take a light year!
My weird ranking: 1. TMP 2. FC 3. TWOK 4. Beyond 5. TUC 6. TVH 7. SFS 8. Insurrection 9. Generations 10. 2009 11. TFF 12. Nemesis 13. Into Darkness I know this has been up for a year, but great list as always!
My list : 1. The Undiscovered Country 2. The Wrath Of Khan 3. First Contact 4. 2009 5. Into Darkness 6. The Search For Spock 7. The Voyage Home 8. Beyond 9. Generations ( I always skip the ending. ) 10.Insurrection 11.TMP 12. Nemesis ( half of a good film ) 13. The Final Frontier
People who openly admit that Wrath of Khan is not their favorite are braver than the troops
I love TWOK, but it's about 7th or 8th on my list.
4th for me.
I'm a vet and I would say her #1 is a very good choice.
My 'favorite' anything isn't really about what's objectively-'best.' If pressed on a favorite movie ever, I tend to say Much Ado about Nothing with Emma Thompson and all-star cast. Is it 'Best Shakespeare? 'Best Movie?' I dunno. It just always makes me happy, so I ...favor that.
Wrath vs. Undiscovered Country (vs First Contact) is the big debate of the franchise though. Peeking at thumbnails along the timeline it looks like Beyond is also ahead of Wrath? A bit more controversial, but I buy that in like ten years it will be a safe favorite too.
"What does god need with a starship?" is the greatest line in sci-fi, and I'm not changing my mind.
That movie had problems, but that line wasn't one of them.
@@renatocorvaro6924 for sure!
It's my favorite of my least favorites (or least favorite of my favorites).
That was the original 'What Spock's never-mentined sibling?' erf. Burnham at least has a story. (I chalk up Star Trek V as a weird shared dream Kir, Spock and McCoy had getting lit at Yosemite, really. It begins and ends with 'Life is but a dream.' It makes more sense if you take it as the trio airing insecurities and projections and wishes in dreamscape that way.
@Sean M It's much better if you realize it's all dream-nonsense that never happened. :)
Broke: "Beverly Crusher is right there."
Woke: "Q is right there."
She said "Let me give them a new style, a new hairdo, a new cut, a new color!"
I love it!
I'm one of those crazy people who actually _likes_ Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and paid real money to see it in theaters for the 40th Anniversary screening. And it was great! The special effects really do look spectacular on the big screen, and that soundtrack fills the theater like it owns the place.
One thing I especially like about TMP is that there's no scenery-chewing villain. Don't get me wrong, I love Khan (and Chang, and Kruge), but it feels like the success of TWOK meant that every Star Trek movie after it (except Star Trek IV, notably) needs a bombastic villain with an aggressive-sounding name and a dastardly plot. TMP eschews that for a vast, overwhelming entity that must be _explored_ and _understood_ rather than confronted and destroyed. It's Star Trek as fuck and I love it for that
I like TMP. One of my favorite Trek movies. There is a sense of awe and wonder in that movie that is missing in newer sci-fi.
I do think Motion Picture is underrated because there's a lot to appreciate there.
I paid to see it when it came out because it was the first star trek we had had in the UK apart from TOS syndicated on BBC2
I was one of those who stood in line around the block to see The Motion Picture when it came out. So many of the things that can appear "boring" now, were very exciting at the time. You could see the Enterprise like it was real for the first time, so those long tours of the Enterprise from without and within were part of the appeal. When you look at it now, in retrospect, with the whole series of films behind it, it does seem slow and not as good. But at the time, I really came out cheering at how good it was to see a Star Trek movie with modern (at the time) realistic effects.
I really like TMP, for me it's like 2001: A Space Odyssey combined with Star Trek and I love that. The story isn't that special, but its like a TOS episode and I watched the movie right after watching TOS so for me it was really cool to watch the same elements from the show translated into the big screen
Generations is one of my favorite TNG movies because at this point the writers had not yet forgotten that Data and Geordi were best friends. They spend almost no screen time in First Contact and Insurrection, and by the time Nemesis rolls around, even that last look and nod they give each other feels like Geordi could've been replaced by anybody else.
A friend of mine warned me about watching Star Trek 2009, so I avoided it until curiousity got the better of me in 2011. I liked it. Creating a different timeline really was ingenious.
My dad always said that "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" would have made a great one-hour episode, and the only problem with it was that it was a two-hour movie.
They didn't even know what the third act was going to be when they entered production...
To be fair, that's probably got something to do with it having been an expanded version of a script for the cancelled Star Trek Phase II, it actually *was* supposed to be a one-hour episode.
TMP was a great one-hour episode in 1968 when it was called "The Changeling."
Yeah tmp is one of my favorite star trek movies, it would be my very favorite if it weren't for the fact that most of the first half just feels like waiting for the movie to start.
@@trekkiejunk You deserve more likes for this one
I would’ve called it “Ranking every Star Trek movie and no The Motion Picture isn’t the last one!” 🤣
No one puts the Motion Picture last. They put Final Frontier last. That said, while TWOK is easily the best film, i'm ok with it not being number one, as Undiscovered Country was also decent. What's unforgivable is ranking any of the JJ Abrams monstrosities higher than the original crew. Sorry, but post 2005 Star Trek is simply NOT Star Trek.
“Scareroused!” That is a perfect word to describe my reaction to the Borg Queen! First Contact is at the top of my list.
The Borg Queen was a wonderful character, interpreted by an incredible actor, Alice Krige. What made her terrible was the fact that she was the BORG queen. It completely ruined the Borg for me. I wish there was no association to the Borg, because she really was a great villain.
I normally don't really watch ranking videos, but I just now noticed the new hairdo! It looks nice! I also like very much how the eyeshadow matches the hair so well c:
Very fresh, love this look too!
I paid money to see Nemesis in the theater and I'm still bitter about it. Also I completely agree that Undiscovered Country owns
My aunt paid 2 dollars for us to see Nemesis in a theatre which only showed films which were already released on video... So the previews were for films like 10 years old. That theatre doesn't exist anymore.
By far my best memory of Nemesis was a brief exchange with the cute ticket taker where we recited the "Hail, hail, fire and snow" mantra from the Melvin Belli episode of TOS.
Call me basic but Khan is my favourite, it was one of the first Star Trek things I ever saw. I have watched it more times I can count and I love it that little bit more after each viewing, I can quote it from front to back, just one of my favourite movies of all time. Also it is by far Shatner’s best performance as Kirk, some of his lines actually make me tear up to this day.
Liking "Khan" the best does not make you basic. There's a reason most fans agree with you. The acting, the dialogue, the themes, the action, the emotional weight are so top notch, it's like a beautiful play. I would call you basic if you liked any of the JJ Abrams abominations the most.
Good points. Kirk is often not my favorite Trek character but he is pretty good in Wrath of Khan.
It was well written, had a great villain, strong performances, a solid cast, just the right pace, ILM visual effects, it is still the best Star Trek film. Others I would name would be Search For Spock, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact, Nemesis, Insurrection and I liked the first film off the Kelvin timeline. The Wrath Of Khan is still the best of the films. It was everything The Motion Picture should have been. Many other Trek films were good, but none of them could reach the heights Khan achieved. Sometimes people will say that Khan wasn't the best just to strike up a debate.
Well put, Corey!
I watched this movie with my wife and I basically said all the lines with the characters and my wife thought it was hilarious.
"Time is the fire in which we burn." That line cut far deeper than Soran intented because of what had just happened to Picard's family and which he didn't know about.
Erm… He’s telepathic. He knew.
@@MattHarropActor El-Aurians are not telepathic.
The line also feels like a nod to Ovid.
Me, who has only seen the 2009 and 2013 movies: Yes this is definitely the video for me. I am 3 seconds in and have to like the video. It's what Jessie deserves.
Aah, hugs, flower, we'll have to soldier our way through the movies to be able to comprehend properly :) our likes shall stand our ground till the day comes!
stop literally those are the only movies i’ve seen
You should see Beyond (2016) next!
I've actually only seen into darkness. Kinda liked it a lot though, certainly not perfect but a fun action romp with interesting, if not super developed, characters.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat I would recommend watching Star Trek Beyond (2016) next.
Undiscovered Country is my favorite too and was not expecting you to pick that as yours... "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the ORIGINAL Klingon".
The one thing I liked about Nemesis was at Data's funeral, when Riker's talking about how they met, but he couldn't remember the song Data was trying to whistle. Because...is there really a Trekkie out there worth their tricorder who didn't immediately yell out "POP GOES THE WEASEL!" at the screen?
Even if it didn't make sense for the character... come on, it's one for the fans. This was their last movie. Or better yet, BF should have started whistling Pop Goes the Weasel...but then screwed up at the same point Data did in Farpoint...have Picard finish it, smile to himself, and then walk off as the Next Gen fanfare swells!
I'm just glad I'm not the only Trek fan who likes Generations. Is it a perfect movie? Not at all. But it's a deeply emotional one that asks genuinely interesting questions about the human condition, and I actually like Kirk's unceremonious death because it shows how even our heroes are ultimately just people and it's their LIVES that have meaning, not how "cool" their deaths are.
Oh man, you instantly doubled my respect for your work by placing Undiscovered Country. It’s also my favorite, it is the moment of transition between the original and next generations, it’s the most mature Trek movie, and it has always been impressive.
"Maybe The Motion Picture was more exciting on the big screen?" No. I was there. Even at age 13 and a massive Trekkie, it was a slog at times.
I was about 12 and my parents and I went to see it in the theater, very excited. I'm a lifelong Trek fan. -- I nicknamed it "The Motionless Picture." I read the book shortly before or after I saw the movie, and it explains one embarrassing scene in the movie. -- "A good one hour episode" wouldn't be far off. -- The movie did have some cool stuff, just very uneven and they drew out the effects within V'ger way too much.
@@benw9949We always called it “ST: The Motion Sickness,” for those intensely overlong fly-bys of the Enterprise. I stood in a very long line to see this one, and it wasn’t really worth it, sadly.
Interesting list. Some pretty bold choices in it. This is mine, personally:
1. Wraith of Khan
2. The Voyage Home
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. First Contact
5. Star Trek Beyond
6. Star Trek (2009)
7. Search for Spock
8. Insurrection
9. The Motion Picture
10. Into Darkness
11. Nemisis
12. Final Frontier
I said something similar on on of Steve Shivers videos about Kirk's death. I actually disagree pretty strongly, I think it was a damn near perfect death for him. He had found paradise, but the galaxy called on him again, and so he went back to work. Through his actions, he saved not only the crew of the Enterprise, but an entire civilization on Veridian IV. He didn't know those people, but he did it anyway, because he's the captain of the Enterprise. To me, it's a perfect death for him, and that scene never fails to make me cry. (Generations was also my first Trek in theaters)
Imo kirk's death was only underwhelming cause the antagonist was underwhelming. It was very appropriate thematically and character wise with how we'd seen Kirk up to that point, but it was anticlimactic cause you don't really buy into the threat.
The biggest problem for me was the fact that there was a literal reset button on its way. I was actually expecting Kirk or Picard to say, "Well, things didn't really go our way this time. We should let the Nexus suck us up and then we can leave and try again." It was so at the forefront of my mind while I was watching the movie that it completely spoiled any of the emotion I might've gotten out of his death. As Kirk was saying his final words, I was busy thinking to myself, "You idiots had as many chances to get this right as you wanted, but we're really going to be stuck with the version where Kirk is dead and the Enterprise-D is destroyed?"
This video is worth it just for the line “sexed into sentience” Wow, just wow.
My favorite Star Trek movie is "First Contact". We have the Borg, we have the Enterprise E (the most beautiful Starship of this World) and we have time travel. It's such a good movie.
Same! It feels like a really good, higher budget, extended version of a tng episode. It’s everything I ever wanted to see in a Star Trek movie
The E AND the Defiant. SOLD
Main issue for me with First Contact is that Picard isn't the same character he is in the series, and there's a bit of continuity problems with his feelings on the Borg, considering episodes that came before that directly dealt with him overcoming his prejudice (I, Borg). He had the ability to completely destroy the Borg race with Hugh, but didn't take it. First Contact Picard would NEVER have missed that opportunity.
I love The Voyage Home. We watched it a million times when I was little!
I still watch it over and over
I get what you mean about the revenge plotline in _Wrath of Khan,_ but I guess I just never paid it as much attention. To me, it's really Kirk's movie: a man reaching middle age and having to deal with the consequences of decisions he made in his youth (also a deconstruction of the reputation he's built up around himself). Khan's lust for vengeance is only one part of that.
Oh you nailed it! If Eggs Benedict Comberbatch had played Kirk’s old friend instead of “Khan” the whole movie would be saved! Just remove Abram’s terrible, patronizing fan service and the movie could have been excellent!
Delighted when there are others who also put Undisovered Country as their number one Trek film. As for the full list of my personal rankings:
Undiscovered Country
Wrath of Khan
First Contact
The Voyage Home
Search for Spock
Beyond
Generations
2009
Nemesis
Into Darkness
Insurrection
The Final Frontier
The Motion Picture
No 1 Undiscovered Country
No 2 First Contact
No 3 Star Trek III
No 4 Star Trek II
No 5 Star Trek Beyond
No 6 Star Trek TMP
No 7 Star Trek IV The Voyage Home
No 8 Star Trek V The Final Frontier
No 9 Star Trek 2009
No 10 Star Trek Generations
No 11 Star Trek Insurrection
No 12 Star Trek Nemesis
No 13 Star Into Darkness
I think I've not missed any ?
Love seeing The Undiscovered Country top any ranking video. It simply has everything. One interesting thing I've found over the years is Rodenberry and Shatner didn't like how prejudiced Kirk was shown to be against Klingons. I know that at least for Rodenberry he likes to portray humanity as perfect in his vision of the future but I love how Meyer threw that in the bin and recognised that as a film the main character needs their growth and progression to be visible to the audience. So what came out might not have been in line with Rodenberry's or Shatner's expectation for Kirk or humanity but I just love that it showed Kirk recognised his enmity for Klingons and overcome it by the end of the film that just captures the title Undiscovered Country so brilliantly.
"Even if you take out that Khan-text..." is what I heard at 7:37 XD XD XD
I’d only swap first contact and undiscovered county. Mostly because first contact tells such a pivotal moment and one that sets everything in motion for the franchise and it gave us a holiday in April 5th.
The Voyage Home: the one that most captures the spirit of Trek on TV. It's got something for all the characters to do, it's got social commentary, no villain, no on-screen deaths, tackles some of the same themes as TMP (probe sent to Earth looking for a response, logic vs emotion), but it's fun. It, rather than TWOK, should have served as the model for future Trek films. That said, when other films tried to learn from it (The Final Frontier, Insurrection), they only took from it that it was a comedy, and their sense of humor was a tad meaner than this film.
The Undiscovered Country: the most cinematic of the TOS films, it was a genuine genre-busting thriller, mashing up courtroom dramas, with prison escapes, comedies of manners, submarine films, etc.
First Contact: as with TWOK, it mined its parent series for a villain and created a similarly claustrophobic thrill ride.
The Wrath of Khan: we have it to thank for the rest of the franchise. It brought humanity back to Trek, which was sorely missing from the extremely sterile TMP. That's the lesson the other films should have taken from it, not that all Trek films should have a vengeance-fueled villain.
The Search for Spock: Yes, this film was a bridge between TWOK and TVH, but was also an important world-building film, giving us spacedock, the Oberth and Excelsior class ships, the Klingon Bird of Prey, and shaped a lot of what Klingons and Vulcans would be like from here on out.
Generations: most people say that Insurrection is the film that most resembles a TNG episode, but I think it's this film. It's not so much the plot or the stakes, but the format of the story. There's a high-stakes A plot with an observatory and star-killing device, with civilians we've never met at stake, and a more character-based B-plot with Data and his emotion chip. Study the stellar cartography scene for dialogue that exactly fits the format of the Berman era on television (characters alternate the technobabble of the A-plot with the emotions of the B-plot, in a very specific style that was always a bit unusual, and specific to Trek. Into Darkness had something similar with the Uhura/Spock dialogue in the shuttlecraft). That said, the movie in quite cinematic and big. It was ambitious for trying to tackle the idea that icons don't necessarily die in an epic fashion. I really appreciate when films try to do this, but a lot of fans just want their heroes to satiate their fantasies, which is why they tend to react so strongly against final arcs for characters as seen in The Last Jedi or Picard. Generations kind of laid the groundwork for stories like that and Logan, all of which I liked.
Beyond: its placement here is deceptive. It's a really solid film and clearly the best of the Kelvin films. It's no accident that the Kelvin films had lower death counts as they progressed. Like TVH, it made sure to give the ensemble something to do. And yes, like that film, it had unusual pairings. The villain was also slightly more benign than the previous ones. When he looked at the shard of glass, I hoped that maybe this would be the rare film where he actually sought some redemption, but alas. The only other problem I had with it was the destruction of the Enterprise and the receipt of any 1701-A. In TVH, the A designation was really special. It was a reward for saving the entire planet from its own shortsightedness, as well as the crews status as legends in their own time for their two five-year missions. Into Darkness kind of set this up, since they said no one ever completed a five-year deep space mission before. So, the 1701-A here felt kind of unearned. It would have probably been better if the ship had somehow been repaired, rather than scuttled and replaced.
2009: this one was a good, decent thrill ride that had a really inventive way of setting a new path forward in Trek films. It also kind of eased the transition to the new crop of TV shows. The new shows are closer in design to the Trek universe as established pre-2009 than the Kelvin films were. The cast was a dynamic roster of performers and the movie was fast and fun. It just had the same problem even the best JJ Abrams films tend to have, they are fun in the moment, but dissolve in retrospect (it's kind of the opposite of Rian Johnson movies, where plot twists seem shocking in the moment but absolutely inevitable and organically derived from the characters in retrospect).
Insurrection: it's an okay film, and generally inoffensive, except the planet being saved is a tad too Aryan. It did finally push the Riker/Troi relationship into something a bit more serious than the deeply close friends who sometimes make out in TNG. It's a film that was notorious for having a really troubled writing phase, documented in Piller's book "Fade In."
The Final Frontier: the film immediately following TVH (though it took three years, rather than the then typical two), it tried two things the previous film did: use a Trek regular star as the director and inject the film with humor. But because it was Shatner, the humor was often at the expense of the rest of the crew. And the film definitely had a cheaper look to it. That said, the Kirk/Spock/McCoy stuff was pretty good, and it did feature some classic TOS battles with godlike beings. You're right that it has kind of a camp quality to it.
The Motion Picture: I rank this below The Final Frontier because, as ambitious as it was, and as much as it wanted to tackle some big ideas, it's painfully dull. That's one of the biggest sins a movie could make. I've even considered seeing if I could tackle a re-edit of the film, as many have done with The Phantom Menace, or similar. And yes, it does feature the classic Roddenberry blind spot of some pretty sexist ideas.
Nemesis: this is anothe ambitious failure that I'd be interested in taking on as an editing project. It could have been good, but Berman's another one with an even more notorious misogyny streak. It's not just the rape scenes, but stuff like the casual sexism of the Mr. Troi joke. We could have cut a bunch of the Kolarus III stuff in favor of the character-based deleted scenes, particularly the one between Picard and Crusher. She never got much to do, so it would have been nice to give her a send-off, at the very least. And the Geordi/Worf scene would have at least provided Geordi some closure that he still didn't get in Star Trek: Picard. That said, the show did kind of redeem the film somewhat.
Into Darkness: this film also suffers from JJ syndrome. It fell apart upon further scrutiny in the time since I left the theatre. But it's biggest crime of all was whitewashing Khan. Orci's explanation was that he didn't want the terrorist to look like the opponent's in Bush's "War on Terror," he wanted Khan to "look like us." But what does "us" mean in the context of a global Star Trek audience? It's damning that often casting will allow diversity when it comes to characters that have no development or even lines, but when it comes to characters as complex and charismatic as Khan, they get scared to look outside of white actors. Cumberbatch wasn't even that big a star compared to lateral move Benicio Del Toro. And Cumberbatch has made a habit of playing underrepresented people in other films. The very least they could have done was go to Bollywood and look for a charismatic, athletic actor hungry to crossover to Hollywood who could speak English, and even already had a following. They could have even gone with the actor who played Robau. It was laziness in the extreme, especially considering Khan was originally a character called Harold Erickson, a Scandinavian, but Roddenberry changed it to Khan because not all genetic supermen need be Aryan fantasies. Aside from that, the film continues JJ's male gaze from 2009 with the Caitians and with the underwear scene. And Lindelof gave an interview where he said he had the Vengeance level San Francisco because the budget demanded a spectacle at that point in the film. It's a crass reason for such destruction. That said, I'm not too offended by the cribbing of TWOK dialogue. It had the function of making the fans that recognized it believe Kirk was going to die. It wasn't there because the writers were lazy. If I should be offended by it, it would be because it's manipulative, but then movies always are.
Deanna got this treatment too often even within the series though to a far smaller extent, it’s much too blatant in Nemesis. Weird how this video starts and ends (almost) with the worst and best with Troi, I loved Marina Sirtis getting to let her freak fly and have so much fun being funny while still being the amazing actress she is in First Contact.
It's interesting because when Into Darkness was being teased, Karl Urban or somebody was saying BC's character was going to be Gary Mitchell.
I seem to remember Cumberbatch himself said that, too! I think it was the official line everybody was required to give to the media, regardless of how insulting that pathetic attempt at misdirection was to the audience's intelligence....
Jessie, how could you forget the true #1 Star Trek movie of all time, Galaxy Quest?
Jokes aside, it a good list. I tend to put the first 2 reboot movies at the very bottom because I have issues with JJ and how me makes movies and Tv shows.
If we're including non-official Star Trek films then Master and Commander should be there too
Galaxy Quest is official star trek and I refuse to acknowledge any other realities!
To be fair, there was a director's cut of ST: TMP that improved the quality of the movie somewhat. It was admitted that the original production was rushed. Still, agreed with Harlen Ellison's "The Motionless Picture" evaluation.
I always liked "Spockalypse Now" as the alternate title.
The unfortunate thing is that the Director's Cut was only edited with a DVD release in mind, so they didn't even create new effects or altered shots in 1080p, let alone 4K or 8K, which seems like an incredibly limited mindset for 2001. So, unless the studio wanted to completely re-do the Director's cut, we will never see it again, except low-quality DVD.
Jessie: No, Khan isn't #1
Me: Thaaank youuu! 😄😄😄
It is really kind of obligatory at this point. It's a classic movie, a great movie, but it's also approaching 40 years old. We can do better. We have the technology and technique.
In both TMP & TFF, one of the best things is JERRY GOLDSMITH’S SCORE!
I think the greatest sin of Nemesis, beyond all the wasted ideas it incorporated and failed to develop (as you mentioned), is that it is, in essence, the Wrath of Khan made a second time. Ok, there is a lot of added material padding out the start, but if you look at the later plot elements it really does quite closely follow the Wrath of Khan.
My personal favourite is First Contact followed by Star Trek 2009.
The joy in your eyes at sharing this list, so beautiful. My heart and soul needed to see that kind of beauty today.
Love the hair! Detmer-esque!
I probably would have put “Into Darkness” at the bottom, but you made good points about Nemesis. The bottom three I think are basically right and it’s just a matter of ordering. My only other big disagreement would probably be to put Generations much closer to the bottom.
Undiscovered Country was also my favorite. I loved that there weren't too many major action pieces (like the Kelvin timeline films) but instead a great mystery with Plummer chewing the scenery and all the tense dialogue and problem solving items throughout (the surgery on the photon torpedo especially!). I also loved the version of the Klingons portrayed in UC; this is probably why their portrayal in ST: Discovery rubs me the wrong way.
Jessie, great rankings and great analysis. I like that your list features some surprises, especially your elevation of Star Trek Beyond, a movie that I also loved. My favorite parts are also Jaylah and the great crew pairings. Spock and McCoy together was particularly satisfying. I too am a supporter of TMP. While imperfect (and of course the Ilia-Dekker stuff is even creepier now that we know bout Collins), maybe it's because I was eight years old and out of my head to see the crew of the Enterprise on a big screen, but I've always loved its vivid contemplativeness as we are reacquainted with everybody. Khan is my favorite, but I see the validity in your top choices, especially as you express your personal connection with each.
Wrath of Khan, First Contact, Beyond, and ST VI are my favorites!
For me, it’s:
1. The Voyage Home (so funny, brilliant, meaningful and impactful)
2. The Undiscovered Country (I’m a Shakespeare fan)
3. The Wrath of Khan & First Contact (I can’t seperate these two, they’re both amazing in their own ways, Khan is a cinematic masterpiece and Contact is a masterful piece of story telling)
Beyond that, I have no set order. It’s always changing.
Here's my personal list:
1. The Undiscovered Country
2. First Contact
3. Into Darkness
4. Nemesis
5. Insurrection
6. Star Trek (2009)
7. The Voyage Home
8. Generations
9. Beyond
10. The Wrath of Khan
11. The Final Frontier
12. The Search for Spock
13. The Motion Picture
I started watching your channel because you were saying nice things about DISCO and I am SO THRILLED that you put Undiscovered Country at the top of your list. It's far and away my favorite, it's one of my comfort movies, the score is incredible, and on and on and on!
Best Worf quote: "Assimilate this!"
My favourite Trek villains are Khan, the Borg Queen in First Contact, Commander Kruge in the Search for Spock, General Chang, Shinzon in Nemesis, Soran in Generations
The Wrath of Khan is my favorite, and I'd rank Insurrection higher and all the JJ films lower, but I like the points you made on the movies both pre-2009 and post-2009. Note: There's a Star Trek novel from way back which has a scene with young Jim Kirk very much like what was in the 2009 movie. I think the movie, er, "borrowed" it from there. The Sybok / god-like entity ("What does God need with a starship?") was a very mixed bag. My understanding is, Nichelle Nichols thought it was a hoot to show an older woman who has still got it, to dance and sing and tempt the bad-guy minions. Oh, and -- Riker looks way better in a beard. I personally hate to shave, but a beard tends to itch, so I stick with just a mustache, usually. Why is my comment all over the place, disorganized? :shrugs: Must be more tired than I thought.
Woah! Other than flipping IV and Beyond (let's be real, mostly because of Walter Koenig and James Doohan) this is my ranking too, and for many of the same reasons. I'd also say that Khan stays down where it is because of those earworms. I had a lot of infections when I was a kid and they FREAK ME OUT! Hair's looking fly btw.
The Lower Decks line ‘Do a fan dance!’ Has just become a regular line for me when needing a distraction
This is correct. Undiscovered Country is unassailable and I have always put it above Khan.
Watched Wrath of Kahn last week for the umpteenth time but the moment Kirk went into engineering for his dying friend I simply couldn't, for me its still too soon. You lived long, you prospered and may you now rest in peace, Leonard Nimoy.
My favorite film from the kelvin timeline is beyond too! I absolutely loved all the character interactions especially Spock and McCoy. It was such a fun watch in the theaters and got me to check out the Star Trek shows which the other two in the trilogy didn’t get me to do
when valeris goes when you said let them die, did i misinterpret you and kirk sits down shocked. big ups that he had to address the consequences
13: Insurrection
12: Nemesis
11: V: The Final Frontier
10: Into Darkness
9: I: Motion Picture
8: Generations
7: Star Trek (2009)
6: IV: The Voyage Home
5: Beyond
4: First Contact
3: III: The Search For Spock
2: VI: The Undiscovered Country
1: II: The Wrath of Khan
I am pleased to see Undiscovered Country getting some much-deserved love. :D
Also, thank you for discussing *that* scene. It was on my mind when I recently watched your video review of Nemesis, because Undiscovered Country does also have a "mind violation" scene. I'm not sure if it's worse to have a well-written and plot-relevant scene, because it does contribute to justifying a problematic trope. :P On the other hand, UC does craft a needed feeling of dread and horror and avoids cheap titillation. My family had the VHS tapes of the original movies, and I saw them as preteen. I remember being very confused and unable to explain the vibe I was getting because the framing of this mind meld seemed so different from others I had seen in Star Trek.
YES! WE AGREE ON UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY!!! It is also my fav! I love it so much!!!
Same! I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one for whom it's a die-hard favorite. XD
I think it's among my bucket list things to do, seeing Motion Picture on the big screen.
I quote the Voyage Home so so much. I definitely say "Hello computer" everytime my laptop lags and I'm not ashamed of it
lol I dont care how bad Final Frontier is, it has a special place in my heart. I was 10 at the time, and i think i was more excited with DC Comics adaptation, and seeing DC relaunch the TOS and TNG comics got me so excited. And I do go back to this film for a ton of re-watches. It just reminds me of a good ole fashioned TOS episode on the big screen.
That's one of very few decent arguments for liking that film. ;-)
@@trekkiejunk and I think it has one of the best musical scores from the TOS film series.
Damn you, Jessie!!!
Every time I see that scene in Beyond with nuSpock finding the picture (prop by John Eaves, btw.) I always get misty-eyed.
I'm so happy I found your channel recently
Voyage Home is my absolute favorite, I think because I'm from NorCal. I used to watch it all the time as a kid
I wish Uhura had more to do in Beyond, I understand that the classic trio is Kirk, Spock and McCoy and the movie was paying tribute to that, but I like that 2009 and Into Darkness had Uhura front and center and I wish they continued with that.
I must agree Undiscovered Country is my favorite Star Trek movie as well. Despite the drama and the tension in the movie, there are scenes that you can tell the actors are have fun.
Before I watch the video, here's my list:
1. Wrath of Khan (Yes, I know, I know.)
2. Search for Spock
3. Star Trek (Reboot)
4. Voyage Home
5. Undiscovered Country
6. Into Darkness
7. First Contact
8. Generations
9. Beyond
10. Motion Picture
11. Nemesis
12. Final Frontier
13. Insurrection
This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure if you asked me again tomorrow, they'd be in a totally different order.
After watching the video: Good points. Maybe I should swap 6 and 9 around. Maybe swap 11 and 12. Then swap... Oh, never mind. they're all good.
I watched all the Star Trek movies for the first time last year. Overall, I enjoyed them all but I will say the voyage home was probably my favourite just for the pure silliness of it.
Undiscovered country is definitely my Top Trek film. Fun fact, Remembering Chang's Shakespeare quotes helped me pass English Literature at school :P
In ST:V I always liked a few things:
1) Sybok was a good man.
2) It was the only movie in the franchise that I watched (didn't saw the kelvinverse after the first) tha dealt with exploration.
3) Sibok's solliloquy about fear being a great barrier was awesome.
4) In the book, at least, it made sense thattehe Enterprise and the Klingons crossed the barrier. Not so in the movie itself.
ST III was the movie in which the crew showed how much better than everybody else they actually were.
1) They kidnapped McCoy, hijacked the Enterprse and sabotaged the Excelsior without a hitch. It took competence unparalleled.
2) They outhought the Klingons handily in their first exchange, until the patchwork repairs gave way
3) Kirk was the epitome of resilience in coming with a way to turn the tables on Kruge while grieving the death of his son.
4) Despite everything, Kirk tried to rescue Kruge. better angels indeed.
Generations:
1) What can an outdated scout do against the flagship of the Federration? Blow it out of the sky.
2) The first act in the Ent-B was good, classig TOS action. I liked that.
3) Kirk's reading the riot act on Picard about seeing past the universe was good.
ST VI had some flaws
1) agreed that Valeris was a huge mistake, it should be Saavik.
2) The Valeris assault. On top of everything else, it wasn't necessary. ten seconds after it failed, Spock came with a successful alternative. He should've led with that. And by the way, aren't there any laws in federation penal law or Starfleet regulations against this kind of behavior?
3) There were some childish parts that didn't work: Chekov was particularly weak, not noticing the ensign's feet. Or Uhura trying to translate Klingonese with paper dictionaries (wasn't she a top linguist?)
4) Why are phasers kept in the kitchen?
Our lists are pretty different, but the top two is the same! I’ve probably seen Undiscovered Country as many times as all the other movies combined lol. Also, love the hair!
As an old time Trekkie who grew up with TOS I was all set to pound out with my fists a very angry reply in ALL CAPS. But you did make a very good case for your ranking and it's hard to disagree with it. While I'd make a couple of changes to your lineup, overall it's not far off from mine.
13. Star Trek In To Darkness
12. Star Trek Beyond
11. Star Trek (2009)
10. Star Trek The Motion Picture
9. Star Trek Insurrection
8. Star Trek Nemesis
7. Star Trek First Contact
6. Star Trek Generations
5. Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Kahn
4. Star Trek 5 The Final Frontier
3. Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered County
2. Star Trek 3 The Search For Spock
1. Star Trek 4 The Voyage Home
Trio's storyline in Nemesis was something she was grateful for. It is offensive but it's supposed to be, sexual assault IS offensive. I think the film fails in that it doesn't deal with enough, it just pushes it aside. I like your take on these films, I'd love to see you also take production in to consideration, not just story and plot. Performances, production design, music, cinematography etc. Great video though.
I agree, ST VI is the best out of the bunch. Though I do have a secret love for ST TMP. I know I didn't see the movie in theater, so it must have been on laserdisc or betamax. Can't really explain why I love TMP, I just do. These days, I actually re-watch TMP more than any other ST film. Thanks for all of your thoughts, friend. :)
Absolutely. Me and my friends who hung out in the library at lunch playing Magic and talking Star Trek were always referred to as the cool kids. At least I assume we were. Nobody else ever talked to us.
I really, really appreciate the TW too.
I wish more creators would put content warnings on their videos.
a new patron rap!! looking forward to the full album :)
I like your new haircut, that's very fun.
I'm probably a bit dull, I like Wrath of Khan best, I think it maintains a really enjoyable tone and pace throughout that just works for me. Undiscovered Country I do like a lot, but I find the scenes on the prison planet to be a bit of a dull meander, so that pulls it down a bit for me. I think I prefer 4 to 6, in fact. I've not seen nemesis or Insurrection, the latter is next in line to be watched, but of the ones I've seen I'd say:
11: Final Frontier
10: Into Darkness
9: Generations
8: The Motion Picture
7: Star Trek
6: The Search For Spock
5: Beyond
4: First Contact
3: Undiscovered Country
2: Voyage Home
1: Wrath of Khan
But that's just me
After the Generations segment I can only say this: WHAT ABOUT EMOTION CHIP DATA?
Shit was adorable! Especially at the end when he finds Spot
Emotional Data is the best every time he is on screen, I apologise for my agressive tone
That being said, undiscovered country at the top is good taste
_life forms_
I just realized that Generations is partially about Picard not having any further generations after all the respect he has for traditions. He is the end. (I will ignore Wesly being his child.)
I absolutely agree with you regarding your number one pick but I couldn't disagree with you more regarding your second place finish. Red Letter Media absolutely scorched Star Trek: First Contact - and I agree with him. I mean, if the Borg had the technology to go back in time why stop first contact? Why not go back further? Plus, if they can do this anywhere, why do they have to do it on Earth? Couldn't have done this in a completely different sector and launched a surprise attack that way?
I'm curious to hear your thoughts about how Star Trek Enterprise handled T'Paul's trauma concerning her forced mind meld. Do you think they did it justice? If not, where do you feel they were short of the mark?
I would rank the Kelvin movies exactly the way you did as well. Beyond is so good because the cast feels so cohesive in that one and I love watching that. My heart is still so broken about Anton's passing.
We have the same top 2. But in reverse. My number one is First Contact. It encapsulates the whole idea of Star Trek in one film. works for long term fans and as an introduction to Trek. Patrick Stewart is amazing in it and the film score is one of the best produced ever. That theme gives me hope and inspires me every time I feel down. My number two is the Undiscovered Country, I just love the politics in it. Made at the same time DS9 was being incepted. That era produced greatness. It launched the 90s, the last progressive decade.
Khan will always be my favorite. I choose to rank the movies by the era. I personally hated all the JJ movies just wasn't personally my thing. Great video Jesse 👍
I love the Klingons in this. It's the perfect blend of warrior and society. While you clearly have different kinds of people: Diplomatic bents, workers etc. Yet all seem to be basic combat trained due to the warrior culture influence. At least that is the impression I get. "Oh I can take this shoulder spike and main you with it, but I am here for peace at this juncture."
@12:43 Strangely enough, I've felt exactly the opposite. This one, the first _Star Trek_ movie always seemed to me to be trying too hard. This was the big budget attempt by Gene Rodenberry to out-Star Wars _Star Wars,_ didn't quite make it. The other movies, especially Star Trek II, all felt more like expanded episodes of the TV series, with the plotting and the pacing, and just in general the way they were filmed.
The moment I saw the title I knew which was going to be the top 1 in your ranking and I was not disappointed in seeing that was the case.
Now, I'm very much a fan that ranks Wrath a lot higher (I alternate between that and 6 for my top Trek movie), but aside from that your ranking is very close to mine.
I would have ranked Insurrection one or two steps higher, but that's about it when it comes to differences in rankings.
Your #1 was what I watched to help me get over this Covid stuff.
It wasn't Khan for me as a Klingon--but Chang. Best Klingon---sorry I'll always love you Worf (loved the cameo). :) Yes--great movie. Not so sure re a few other picks. Also I know it was goofy but I loved The Voyage Home. Also love the character of Dr Gilllian Taylor---love her standing up to Kirk, and besting him at times (just about never see this--sweeps women off their feet who just never say boo). I don't think I saw the Kelvin time line ones--honestly thought the concept was a little hokie but you get me wanting to see them. Fun video. Oh yes, I have a major bone to pick though---we need a tour of your collection. Damn that is sweet. Collection video please!!
Good afternoon Jessie, I think the movie touch each of us different LIKE YOU ASKED at the begging. Emotion are a large part of a movies success in my opinion. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Biggest problem with The Motion picture was that Gene Roddenberry wanted a special effects driven story. What made the series great was the character driven stories, that was missing from TMP. My number 1 is... Undiscovered Country. The novelisation by J. M. Dillard is great, builds the threat of the warbird that can fire while cloaked, the first scene in the book is a medical station on the edge of Federation space commanded by Carol Marcus, who is back in a relationship with Kirk and the station is destroyed. So also adds to Kirk's anti-Klingon feelings.
I perfectly respect your feelings on what you love about Trek. I personally love the Wrath of Khan because it broke the model at the time. In context it was the Star Trek (2009) of its time. Coming off the Flop that the Motion Picture was it lead to the revival of the series on television. The Wraith of Khan was also the first time Rodenberry did not have anything to do with a Star Trek production. It allowed someone other than Gene to make something official Trek for the big screen. Trek has the habit of getting mediocre in its productions and like you said forgets to explore and have fun with that exploration. Sometimes you have to hand the reins to someone else and see what he does with the product like they did with Dr. Who and Xena Warrior Prince when they switched producers. Making a continuity to Dr. Who worked on some levels like being more episodic helped explore Xena's characters more. Taking the viewers out of their comfort zones concerning their favorite series. Sometimes you have to rock the boat, shake the ship to get some new ideas or interest into something old. (I know as I hear the groans audibly on the internet)
"Riker's beard"
Her name is Deanna, Jessie.
Ha!
Christopher Lloyd's Kruge the Klingon was the best Klingon adversary ever, and could have gone on to be Kirk's greatest enemy in another timeline.
Kirk: You should take the Vulcan too.
Kruge: No.
Kirk: But why?
Kruge: Because you wish it!
Kruge gets it, man. Don't give Kirk an inch, or he'll take a light year!
My weird ranking:
1. TMP
2. FC
3. TWOK
4. Beyond
5. TUC
6. TVH
7. SFS
8. Insurrection
9. Generations
10. 2009
11. TFF
12. Nemesis
13. Into Darkness
I know this has been up for a year, but great list as always!
The Voyage Home is amazing and I feel its the best one. Khan is very good too.
My list :
1. The Undiscovered Country
2. The Wrath Of Khan
3. First Contact
4. 2009
5. Into Darkness
6. The Search For Spock
7. The Voyage Home
8. Beyond
9. Generations ( I always skip the ending. )
10.Insurrection
11.TMP
12. Nemesis ( half of a good film )
13. The Final Frontier