Women of Star Trek: The Future Through a Lens of the Past (Mini-Doc)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Let's take a look at how the Star Trek franchise has treated women throughout it's five decades of existence.
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My Amazing Contributers
✔Jen Usellis - klingonpopwarri...
✔Steve Shives - / @steveshives
✔Ketwolski - / @ketwolski
Sources
✔The Fifty Year Mission: The Complete, Uncensored, Unauthorized Oral History of Star Trek: The First 25 Years by Edward Gross and Mark A. Altman - www.amazon.com...
✔Star Trek: A Phenomenon and Social Statement on the 1960s by J. William Snyder, Jr. - www.ibiblio.or...
✔Sex and Star Trek by Karen Blair
✔The World of Star Trek by David Gerrold - www.amazon.com...
✔Star Trek Memories by William Shatner - www.amazon.com...
✔The Roddenberry Vault Clip: “Diversity In Casting” - • The Roddenberry Vault ...
✔Gene Roddenberry Interview (August 14, 1988) - • Gene Roddenberry Inter...
And obviously CBS Corporation, Viacom and Paramount Pictures for everything Star Trek in general.
Jeri Ryan has commented on how, okay, Seven is eye candy, but that got her in the door and then she got to be the smartest person in the room, and that's how she can be proud of the role.
To quote my mom back in the 80s "Yeah, they put a black woman on the bridge. To answer the phones..."
RLOL So revealing! I was disappointed that she never got to assume command in the captain's chair.
She was the communications officer! Not a telephone operator. LOL
@@ckom9 She was treated with respect and seriousness on the bridge which was progressive (not like the blond Yeoman bringing Kirk his coffee.) In the '60s jobs were still sex segregated. Women were secretaries not executives, nurses not doctors, and telephone operators. As women were hired onto company leadership teams it was most frequently to head HR departments not CFO, not engineering... because it's similar to women's role in the home. Communications looks a lot like telephone operator.
This exact comment was made by Leonard on The Big Bang Theory. 😁👍🏼
@@martinnyberg9295 Which episode was that?
I agree with pretty much every point you make, save one. The episode where Q makes the bridge crew play out the Robin Hood fantasy and Crusher takes out a guard with a flower pot. Thats actually in character for her, as Q had clearly stated that everyone they encountered were living human beings. Dr. Crusher would be more inclined to disable a guard rather than run him through with a sword due to her taking of the Hippocratic Oath, and taking it very seriously. Even though she had easy access to a sword, and these people were created by Q (a god for all intents and purposes) she would have gone out of her way to not kill anyone. So, flower pot.
I'm pretty sure I read that the actress who played Crusher wanted to use a sword because she's actually trained in stage fighting, but they made her use a flower pot, which she was very annoyed about.
@@kiapet286 Damn. I can see her frustration. While I still say its more in character for Crusher to attempt to disable an opponent rather than kill them, if she had years of stage combat training and the perfect chance to use it that would be cause to be pissed. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be. A friend of mine runs a school for stage combat and I could see how Gates would be annoyed, as its super fun.
A different framing:
I was a young woman when the episode of Troi's assault first aired and had been a victim of sexual assault in my early teens.
To me, felt like an acknowledgement of the reality many assault victims face - an failure of the system to hold abusers accountable.
One of my favourite episodes of Star Trek ever, "Balance of Terror," features two crewmembers getting married, and Kirk and McCoy commenting (I'm paraphrasing here) "welp, now the little lady is gonna leave Starfleet and settle down to be a homemaker and have kids!" As if that's the only option, as if that expected, as if that's only what women do.
Have the people beating up on Kate Mulgrew for saying Star Trek has been misogynist ever even even watched the show? Or is it a symptom of "oh look, a new woman to hate!"
Because that was the norm back in the 1960s, it’s like my friend is pakastini and she was talking about how she wants to get married soon ( we’re 18) so she can move out and have her own family, is that her being sexist? Or is that her speaking from her culture and to what is normal for her life
@@randomhuman9672 1968, when Star Trek first aired, was at the height of Second Wave feminism when women fought for the right to have careers out of the home, amongst other things.
The sad truth is that (most) of the Star Trek writers were men (D.C. Fontana excepted of course) and wrote their worldview into the show. Had they had more women on the show, or had they been more socially aware, having lines where the main characters talk about how a newly married woman would surely leave Starfleet to be a homemaker would never have been written.
To answer your question: your friend isn't being sexist, but she is expressing the sexism inherent in her culture and expressing the desire to conform to that sexism. I know enough about Indian culture (all learned from women I know who are from India) to know that the culture is very sexist, and I'm willing to bet Pakistan isn't much different.
@@randomhuman9672 It's sexist
@@randomhuman9672 That it was normal in the 60s doesn't mean it wasn't sexist. We can acknowledge that TOS was really sexist without condemning it wholesale. It had merit, it also had serious problems.
Completely agree, just hoped the writers back then could have gotten rid of the gender misconceptions of their time. We are looking at it in retrospective, their context was a huge limitation.
Lol at Doomcock saying Kate Mulgrew has “emerged from obscurity” as if she hasn’t spent the last 6 years as part of the cast of a very successful and critically acclaimed Netflix series 🙄
Plus she had a "career" long before Voyager though one could argue a much less known career I suppose. Ryan's Hope was a popular show back in the 70s and she did 2 seasons on it and is still known for it after all.
Well, that's a show that stars *Quark voice* FEEEEMALES *normal voice* so no one watched it, right...
Orange is the New Black could be defined as Obscure. Low moral content, with a dark message, but in the end if it makes people think about prison reform, yay.
I'm afraid the only other time I've seen her in anything was in Warehouse 13. Of course, I'd look her up on IMDB before denouncing her as obscure. lol
Yousurped Trek - a show’s tone or “moral content” is irrelevant to whether it is obscure though. It was a widely talked about show, especially in its first few seasons.
The real punchline when it comes to the skimpy outfits is that when I was a teenager I thought 7 and Troi both looked so much better in uniform.
Me too!
One of the best things Edward Jellico did in his brief time as captain of the Enterprise was put Troi in a proper uniform. Can't remember 7 ever being in a uniform. although I haven't seen every episode of Voyager.
@@Kartissa 7 was in a blue uniform for some time travel episode near the end of the show.
Thanks. Found it.
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They ended up putting "Majel" in her "place" by making her blond, a nurse and in short dress. That kills me.
Did you notice in "The Child," though, that literally no one asked what Troi wanted to do about the pregnancy or baby? She was right there in the room, and they argued about it without asking for her input!
on the other hand, it is good that as soon as Troi states she wants to keep it then Picard goes "then there is nothing more to be said". still doesn't make up for no one asking her, but they make it very clear that their opinions ultimately are not as important as hers.
Thanks again for asking me to participate! Such a fantastic video.
Steve Shives thanks! And of course. I’m so glad to have you involved. :)
I thought I recognized your voice.
Thanks for sending us here Steve. Great companion video to yours. Excellent balanced overview, Jessie. New sub.
Stevie Shills does not understand Star Trek.
I hit like just to get 69
I love this video. I also love that someone finally pointed out Neelix's toxic masculinity and abusive treatment of Kess. As well as how she was essentially a child when they were together.
That is true -- only thing i would say, not to defend hi -- her species and perhaps also women in general, do seem to mature a lot faster than men -- again not letting Neelix off the hook, who actually sometimes seems like a child moles.......
Agreed. Eventually the show handled that relationship well with the two characters development and story arc to better mental health. In the end I thought it worthwhile and interesting.
@@danskkr it's because we have to. Women are required to mature faster because of the elements of society that are toxic/sexist. This goes more than double for POC.
@@fullmoon1072 I thought she was the equivalent of a teen in her race at the time we first meet her...but okay
Ocampa live to 10 years only, right?
And I'll again say what everybody else has said: Came because of Steve Shives, stayed because of the awesome women in Trek analysis. You got another sub ma'am
She's also fun as hell to talk w/on Twitter!
The lack of self-awareness of many of those criticizing Mulgrew in the montage in the first three minutes of this video is disappointing. How many included statements of "for its time" or "to today's standards"? Just acknowledge Mulgrew is right but that you're simply unhappy that she is, people! It's OK to say "it made strides for its time but still had a long way to go." We can give people pats on the back for making the world a better place while also recognizing it is still imperfect and that they could have done better. Why is this so hard?
Sadly what kate said is so true 🤯😬😡🤬
@@cynthiaholmes5124 I think it's kind of interesting that Mulgrew was calling out the past mistakes of the show, but that she herself was directly responsible for Jeri Ryan having to work in a toxic atmosphere on Voyager! I mean, the statement she makes acknowledging that she was at fault was great, but it's horrible to know that Jeri Ryan had to put up with so much to give a performance that I loved.
It's a shame Nelix never had to address his emotionally menipulative behavior, lashing out towards Kes to avoid dealing with his insecurities.
It's been so long since I've watched Voyager, if it ever happened I simply don't remember.
You remember correctly, I love Voyager but when I watched it the second time the Neelix-Kes thing bothers me alot. (The first time I somehow didn't register that they where a couple, maybe I missed a few episodes or maybe me 11 year old girl brain just decided to ignore the whole concept because they weren't good together)
not to mention how Kes is nine. Sure, an adult by her species' standards but it's still unbelievably icky to me how Nelix has lived probably more than twice the number of years as her. It just reminds me of the 100 year old vampire × 17 year old teenager romances. Sure as a teen (which I still am one btw) I enjoyed them and partook in fanfic communities centered around the ship of spuffy but the relationship between Neelix and Kes bugs me in a way these vampire stories never have.
Made my way here via Steve Shives. Loved this video!!! Just absolutely fantastic!
John Gingras glad to have you here! Glad you liked the video :)
Found you the same way,coincidently I was having a "discussion " with a fan ( On Lore Reloaded) about the importance of inclusion. Thank you, I'm subscribing.
Same. Good video!
You're not the only one!
Me, too!
Majel was a friend of mine and I must add that she was a strong force behind things. She admitted that he was sexist but she tried to influence him and I think she accomplished much. She was a huge influence for women in Star Trek and she should be remembered for that.
Uhrura taking command in the Lorelai Signal is one of my favorite scenes in Trek. Her whole attitude is amazing "Set for stun. Just shoot everybody and we'll sort it out later..."
Mine too!
Kate Mulgrew: "TOS was misogynist"
Me: *watches 'Turnabout Intruder'* "yep, that checks out"
Actual Spock quote 'I've never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to any question.' I mean it made me laugh but yeah checks out as misogynist, and Spock was the nicest male member of the crew.
@strontiumXnitrate I bet your fun at parties
@strontiumXnitrate A bout of sex before marriage will do you some good.
@@lloroshastar6347 You obviously aren't!
@@sparky6086 Because I don't generalise all women?
Excellent video. As Lindsey Ellis might say thing flawed doesn’t mean thing bad.
Naa45702 the exact person who inspired the ending of this video :)
Nice to see fans of Lindsay here 😊
bemasaberwyn55 we all (her fans) mostly hang in the left side of UA-cam and she’s awesome
@@Naa45702 that she is. I follow her on Twitter. I'm on the left side of the aisle in the Canadian version of Texas, which makes things hard. Especially since....2016
bemasaberwyn55 we will survive. UK trump has been weakened and USA Trump has impeachment proceedings. They’ll be more work to do but we’ll get there. Also recommend Beau of Fifth column.
Thanks for taking a moment to acknowledge Kira. She was the best thing in a show that already had a hundred good things going for it. Great character, who makes as many command decisions over the course of the series as Sisko does. Seems every Star Trek series has a compelling relationship between the Captain and the X-O, but Sisko and Kira's is unique among those. Nothing else like it in the franchise.
The quote about struggles got me crying, I often feel like many steps of transition will remain beyond my reach forever... "It is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will not reach our ultimate goal. The effort itself yields its own reward."
I was 12 when TNG premiered, and because I had watched the OS reruns with my dad as a smaller child, I immediately noticed the change from "no man" to "no one". I was so happy, in an indescribable way. It was the first time I felt the difference one tiny word could make.
As a 40-yro woman who has experienced the after-effects of breastfeeding multiple children, I just gotta say:
If I were in a regenerative paradise, I would ABSOLUTELY notice my boobs firming up. 😂
Even as a child, watching it in the eighties. I noticed that women wore short skirts and we treated differently.
The short skirts were fashionable at the time and represented an affront to misogyny. It was because for years women were deemed as sluts or whores if they showed too much flesh, short skirts represented freedom to wear what they want. Basically it wasn't considered misogynist at the time, but the opposite.
@@lloroshastar6347 @dentoncrimescene I agree with you both. Nichelle Nicholls long after the series says she didn't feel demeaned by the short skirt. She enjoyed the comfort and ease of movement. Nichelle's an actress, singer, and dancer.
I watched TOS in order as originally televised. All of it. I loved it, and was inspired by it. Also I became disgusted with Kirk's romance / sexual dalliance in nearly every episode at the end. Third season especially suffered from executive pressures. The series went downhill.
The quotes of Gene from writers and staffers was shocking initially. Now I have greater respect for his ability and desire to overcome his misogyny to such a level as he achieved.
@@lloroshastar6347 Tis a shame males never find them fashionable and an affront to misogyny if upon themselves, and only consider them such when upon a form female.
As some who's bi, I LOVE how you openly talk about ST help find the REAL YOU. I also have cerebral palsy. Have you ever thought about how ST deals with disabilities? It may be a good idea for a video.
"The worst moment comes in Nemisis" can be said about a whoooooole lot of things...
But jesus christ, that mind assault scene, god, damn, what the hell
And that's the 2nd time that happened to Troi
@@devildham It was actually the 4th or something. 2 of them were less obvious but still clear violations of her mind, and one included her body.
I was like didn't they do this already, why do they hate Tori?
@@tonywhite9873 Because Rick Berman was an asshole that's why.
@@krazzeeaj I think there were two episodes in TNG before the movie: Season 2 “the Child” Troi becomes pregnant by an alien light being that enters her room and by whom she has a child; and Season 5 “Violations” a member of an alien delegation invited on the ship molests Troi with telepathy
Slightly embarrassed that I am only now considering how awesome scenes between Crusher and Pulaski could have been. We already know the ship needed multiple doctors via Dr. Selar (portrayed by the spectacular Suzie Plakson). What amazing storytelling opportunities we could have had if Crusher returned to head up the Enterprise's medical research department!
It really is sad that Pulaski was kicked off the show for the sake of Crusher. It would have been really nice, both for the sake of having more female characters who can actually interact with each other one on one, but also to give both of them development and growth by having the two of them work with their opposites. Huge missed opportunity
What a wonderfully thorough, well researched, insightful piece of media Jessie! And not to mention funny, I love your sense of humour!! Everything you said is valid, except for the fact you find Riker dreamy.
Ana T only the beard is dreamy haha. And I’m so glad you liked the video :)
They gas-lighted Uhura too. No one believed her until Scotty confirmed that he saw Spock.
The future is... complicated. So are our ideas about the future.
Thank you for a very thoughtful and nuanced look at Star Trek.
I remember reading an interview where somebody asked Nana Visitor if she had a hard time wearing the Mirror Kira catsuit, and she seemed confused. She pointed out that her Bajoran Militia uniform was basically just as form-fitting as the mirror outfit, after they removed the separate jacket in a redesign, but she played the characters so differently, playing Kira as not super sensuous, and it was enough to make the interviewer never notice.
So I basically feel like they continued the Troi, Seven, T'Pol pattern with her too. I really really like her uniform when it was two piece from the first few episodes, I wish they'd kept it. I probably like it for the same reason production changed it, I like that it adds to her shoulders, and just slightly reduces her hip curves (even though on myself I mostly wear tight tank tops and dresses and stuff...). And the belt was real, I think. But mostly just seeing the jacket extend and cover the trousers gave it a more military feel, to go along with the army/air force ranks instead of Starfleet's naval ones. The redesign just sort of.... hinted at it, with the belt, and sometimes she would undo the jacket in the time between camera angle changes.
Having said all that, I do like the waffle-quilt weave on her unique uniform (much more self evidently a catsuit kind of thing) from season 4 and its deeper red colour. Not really into the 7th season version with a different torso thing going on though. Even though her hair in that final season is goddamned fabulous. Naturally as a trans lesbian I am floored by asymmetric hairstyles.
Especially glad you included the truth about Roddenberry.
Incredible video. I can tell your heart went into this. I'm not a Trekkie, but I think only because I haven't stopped to watch it, not because I've seen it and didn't like it. This video really makes me want to watch it.
Pulaski was “unpopular”. Too tough, too strong, not nurturing, not “femmie” enough?
I actually kind of liked Dr. Pulaski because she reminded me of Dr. McCoy from TOS (in fact, she was deliberately meant to be a McCoy-like character). I was disappointed by how unpopular she was.
For me...it's entirely because of how she treated Data. It felt like they were trying to do the Spock/Bones relationship, but the important thing there was...Spock fired back and gave as good as he got? Meanwhile, with Data, it felt more like she was bullying someone who literally could not...grapple with or deal with the way she was interacting with him.
...though, I admit, rewatching TOS, the Spock/Bones relationshi also reads *really* racist sometimes...
But could I be too judgmental of Pulaski because of my own implicit bias? I honestly do not know.
It's been a while since I saw TNG, but you're right, Dr. Pulaski was pretty crappy to Data. I don't know why I forgot about that.
I couldn’t stand Pulaski, not because she was “strong” or “not nurturing” but because she was presented as entirely unlikeable. She’s Star Trek’s version of the Colin Baker Doctor from Doctor Who; a character that was removed from the series for the same reasons.
As a preschool kid who had trouble fitting in I really loved Data and his character arc, so Pulaski being bigoted and a--sive towards Data felt really unforgivable for me.
I also liked Dr Crusher even though the character was massively neglected by the writers but with Tasha being dead and Troi being a much weaker character from season 2 on there weren't much characters left to identify myself with -- Guinan, Crusher, that's it. So I wasn't exactly happy about having her replaced with someone who reminded me of my bullies... and also of the Boomer parental figures I had, not in a good way.
My parents really liked her. They had been annoyed by Crusher being so "motherly" and "weak"... which is probably a result of what they disliked about *their* Silent Generation parents.
As an adult, I can appreciate Dr Pulaski much more as a character -- which probably has less to do with my age than with my ability to bingewatch the series on DVD or a streaming service. TV is not a great medium for long-spanning character development arcs like Pulaski overcoming her bigotry. As a kid I watched every episode as if it was self-contained, not really noticing that development other than her being more mean in some episodes and less mean in others.
I'm also (and this probably does have to do with having more life experience) much more aware of Bones being extremely a..sive towards a character who's basically autistic. Spock is *not* "lacking emotions". On the contrary, he's incredibly vulnerable to racism due to an ..-sive upbringing, he's just expressing it in a different way than Bones -- and bullying someone into opening up is *not* being a great friend... especially not if you tease them every time they do open up a bit. I know that some people see them more like, let's say, a bickering married couple but I think Bones is *not* a great role model in his friendship with Spock.
I don't think it was a particular great idea to mirror that dynamic in TNG...
In "Loud as a whisper" (an episode with strong disability themes) Pulaski asks Geordi why he doesn't get replacement eyes to have "normal" vision to which he says that his blindness and visor are a part of himself and he doesn't want to be "cured" of being himself. She accepts his explanation, it's never brought up again in future episodes and in that particular episode that scene is used to help the (non-disabled part of the) audience to become more sensitized towards ableism.
Whether or not you see characters like Spock or Data as exact space equivalents to people in the Autism spectrum the *social barriers* they experience due to their non-normative brains are definitively very similar to how people with disablities are often treated nowadays. While this episode illustrated how well ST generally handles more "visible" disabilities, imagine Pulaski treating Geordi for his blindness (and *her* inability to understand why he doesn't want to be "cured") the same way she was treating Data, including the fact that she only accepted him after learning that he is striving to be more "normal". That's *not* something we would expect from someone who's serving a the chief medical officier on a Federation starship, is it? I think ST's handling of neurodiversity and other "invisible" disabilities (like mental illness) are a mixed bag -- sometimes it's really good, sometimes it's really bad and most of the time it's just really, really meh.
Even the "overcoming one's own bigotry" character arc does not fully excuse that, imo. It's a good idea to have an android recieve all the a-..e instead of, y'know, an actual autistic human but still, I think it makes the character unlikable... and I've had similar issues with Worf whenever he was written as a bigoted douchebag. If Pulaski's arc didn't start at such a dark place and was more focused on getting to know Data out of a personal interest and and appreciation for his individuality it could have been *great*.
Unfortunately, a lot of TV series in the 90s had arc that presented treating marginalized people with some basic respect "despite their differences" as a major accomplishment, so that's what the writers went for.
40:46 I am really glad that you bring this up and discuss it further later in the video. It bothers me that people want to paint the world as black and white. Not long ago it was reported that the hometown of Thomas Jefferson was no longer going to celebrate him because he was a slave owner. Yes, he was. He also wrote the fundamental basics of what it means to be an American. He made amazing contributions to history. And yet, he took part in one of the most detestable practices in human history. The thing is, his contributions do not excuse his sins, but his his sins also do not erase his contributions. It is crucial that we acknowledge both the good and the bad in history. Otherwise we will never grow. Jefferson should be praised for his contributions, AND condemned for his shortcomings. It's not an either/or, it's both.
Jefferson's "fundamental basics" only applied if you were a cisgender heterosexual able-bodied neurotypical white Chrisitian male. If you weren't in that exclusive club, you were shit out of luck.
He also raped Sally Hemmings, a young slave girl. He didn’t just participate in slavery (“reluctantly”) but also perpetuated the system.
Did these people watch the original series? Uhura was a glorified phone answering secretary. Yeoman Rand was his basically Kirk's personal waitress. It was a product of it's time and progressive for it's time. But that doesn't mean it wasn't problematic. It is sexist but that doesnt automatically mean it is worthless.
My favorite thing about your channel is your ability to appreciate nuance --- how some things (and some people) aren't all-good or all-bad.
I've heard something about the dissatisfaction with Kes "not working as a character" being linked to her auditioning while she was nursing and then losing a few cup sizes by the time they went into production. Which tracks with Rick Berman's well documented breast obsession.
Would that be someone else? Jennifer Lien had a child in 2002, after the series ended.
Can you do a video on the Quarks mom plot line? It always hit me as weirdly super sexist while also super feminist, especially when you take into account ferengi morals, and I would love to hear your thoughts.
That would be great! I'm all for it.
Yeah, true. That would be interesting
Wow. That is actually a really well thought out, well written and balanced mini-doc about a devisive topic. Thank you
Steve thank you yourself for watching! 😊🖖
Kate Mulgrew: "I'm not going to have sex with Chakotay!"
Show creators: "Fiiiiiine. We'll turn you into lizards first, and you can make lizard behbehs before you get turned back."
I think you forgot to talk about one of the most interesting women of all time Whoopi Goldberg
Guinan is to this day one of my favorite characters in the franchise.
When I was a teenager and discovered star trek it always struck me as odd that Troi and T'Pal didn't get uniforms. I loved those uniforms and would have loved to wear them.
This was a great, nuanced video! I learned a lot about a franchise that means a lot to me
I really think your point about "the bad doesn't erase the good, just as the good doesn't erase the bad" is very important for us today. It seems so obvious, but it feels really hard for people (myself included!) to actually believe and live by. Great video, as always.
Wait, they're making a Star Trek series just about the lower-ranking crew? That's something I've wanted to see for years. Those 2 episodes like that had great potential. Brilliant!
A great video, I sat down to "just watch five minutes" intending to finish it later; but I ended up watching it straight through - I can always mow the lawn tomorrow. Please do more videos like this one, I expect the amount of research and planning you put in is enormous, but the result is top class and if you're aiming to both entertain and inform your audience, you're spot on target. Thanks again, and best wishes.
this reminded me of a nichelle nichols interview she gave back during the original run of the series (and yea...i was around to see every episode back then)...
nichelle recalled a meeting she had where they offered to lengthen her dress to which she replied...don't you dare...that's part of my sexual freedom....
everything works in its time period...sometimes you just gotta know the times and put these things into that context....
Yes, the mini-skirt was women revolting and taking freedom over their bodies at some point in history. Nowdays we look at it as just free skin.
This is a very intense, nuanced take on this very complicated and larger issue. I think that it was beautifully edited and thoroughly researched. Excellent job!
I am glad that I immediately believe Terry Farrel over Rick Berman. Its so sad that such a kick ass character has that off screen back story and that it resulted in our loosing Jadzia in the final season. Not that I don't love Ezri... I wish people were better.
11:42 So my first shareable thought, here: I now want a Star Trek series or similar series with an Elle Woods type woman as the captain of the ship. Obviously not wearing pink because uniforms are a thing, but wears makeup, curls her hair, and is very, very girly but no less competent. Captaining a star ship? "What, like it's hard?"
Man, that would be awesome. We need to make this happen!
Fellow lifelong Trekker/Trekkie here. I literally grew up with Star Trek--a second-generation fan raised by one who had seen the original series when it was new, and some of my first TV memories are watching reruns of the original as a toddler. I did things like dress up in original-series costume to answer phones at a local PBS telethon (they were doing a sci-fi themed night of programming) and for a while there in the late '90s, I could dress up as a pretty killer Dax. With ONE small and I do mean "small" as a pun, difference: I'm an entire foot shorter than Terry Farrell. XD
Anyway my point is I'm a dyed in the wool Trekkie; I've dressed up in various uniforms in public, written at least one full-length fanfic and a few short stories, read many novels and watched every episode of EVERY show at least once, and I don't. Regret. A moment of it. Sure, the Trek franchise is flawed, even when you take "for its time" into consideration..but then _everything_ is.
And although I don't want kids, I've ALWAYS thought that if I had the chance to mold the mind of a small child (regardless of gender but especially if it's a girl) I'd _absolutely_ sit them down in front of Voyager. :)
It would be similar to what I grew up with at the same formative age--not perfect, but putting in some good ideas. Women can be in charge and it's normal? Women can be nerdy but also tough? Women can be sexy but smart? Yes please. :)
There are WAY worse philosophies to raise a child with, than those in Star Trek, and I frankly think the world would be a better place if a lot MORE people were. Heck, starting with the original series, since we've got flat out comparing people with darker skin colors to _animals_ level racists and for sexism? Well, incels...
There are literally people for whom the SIXTIES level of progressivism is flamingly Commie pinko liberal. So....yeah. Even with its flaws, Star Trek's basic values are those we could _still_ stand to learn and live by.
So, I interrupted my binge-watch of Discovery S2 to watch this when the notification came up. Well done! I want to write paragraphs, but the two words are sufficient. (And thanks for mentioning what Dax did for trans people... especially that one episode... you know which one that made me feel like I could someday be accepted.) I'm glad Steve sent me here.
Steve Shives sent me here. Excellent essay. Thank you.
Excellent, balanced, take on how Star Trek has represented women over the years. I like the way you place everything into context, something that reviewers (especially official reviewers) do not do often enough. I have just discovered your channel, and as a neuro divergent LGBTQ+ trekkie, I feel like I have stumbled upon a goldmine! Keep up the excellent work! Jadzia Dax and Kathryn Janeway meant so much to me back in the days, and they still do.
Considering Disco doesn't have a single straight white man in it's main cast and nobody immediately noticed? Well, I didn't notice and when I did I laughed. I love it!
Amazing video. I unashamedly started crying from the moment Mae Jemison came on screen to the very end. Bravo.
You have earnt a subscriber Jessie.
Oh and thank you to Steve Shives for sending me this way.
I was worried the Video would be long and boring. I was wrong. Thank you, Jessy.
Greetings from Germany
Greetings! I'm so glad you like the video :)
@@JessieGender1 oh and I was happy surprised you mentioned Steve. Have you ever made a Star Trek video together? I would love to see that.
The native American in Voy was a whole pile of made-up stuff, I've heard. (mostly SFDebris). He was also super boring.
I think even the actor would completely agree with you there.
A famous con man selling snake oil was hired over an actual Native American.
And he was played by a Latino. "Meh, the white audience won't tell the difference between shades of brown skin."
@@CT_Phipps wait, who's the con man?
@@yoseftreitman7226 well, to be fair, a lot of people that would identify as "Latino" _are_ Native American/have some native American ancestry. Especially Mexican and South American. I like the character of Chakotay. Did they take the lazy route with the character? Sure. Could they gave cast a more ethnic/North American native actor? Sure. I think it was more of an attempt at inclusion than perfect representation.
I loved 7 of 9 but she still is a 'born sexy yesterday"-trope
I also want to point out on TOS on MULTIPLE occasions, they had Uhura softly whisper to Kirk something along the lines of “Captain I’m scared.” Ugh makes me roll my eyes every time.
I'm reminded of the... trainwreck that is Orson Scott Card's personal beliefs and how, miraculously, Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead embody so well the complete antithesis of that hateful bigotry.
Fun fact, Ender's Game was only written so Speaker for the Dead would make sense. It's funny that the former is the one that blew up.
Here from Steve Shives' link.
I almost put it off til later due to the length (even though it's only 20 minutes more than Steve's!) but am glad a took the plunge - a really well produced essay.
Off to check out some more of your Trek content :-)
Jesse that is one of the best Star Trek videos I've ever seen. You talked about things in a positive way you showed things that we're definitely not in the character of Star Trek but Star Trek is not perfect just the people who created it we're not perfect. I remember watching Rod roddenberry's Trek Nation and he was very open about his father's infidelity alcoholism these are things I did not know about Gene Roddenberry it did not make me not love what he created and his vision for Star Trek. He was just a flawed human being just like the rest of us we do good things and bad things I include myself in that. What a fantastic video Jesse so well thought out and you truly achieved the balance of being impartial about something you love pointing out the pros and cons evenly and I already subscribe the Steve shive and Ketwolski channels so you're in good company.
Finally got around to watching this, and it was magnificent. One of the best documentary videos on the franchise as a whole I’ve ever seen and with an incredible nuanced and reasoned approach.
Fantastic work!
It also should be pointed out that despite all of this even Tos had some examples of strong independent women. In the episode court martial, the prosecution lawyer does not let per personal feelings towards Kirk get in the way of doing her job, which she does very well. She is portrayed as competent, independent, and intelligent. This depiction was far ahead of the time in which it was produced.
This is one of the best video essays I've ever seen on any topic. It captures the nuance and detail of the situation with a truly balanced and informed narrative.
Well done!
One small thing I'd say about Nemesis, Troi going back into the Viceroy's mind on purpose wasn't an order from Picard. He didn't even think of it, it was Troi's idea. But overall, your video was perfect.
I think denying the misogyny in Star Trek also denies how much Star Trek has progressed over time. I don't know how someone couldn't see how much things have changed between the original Star Trek (although progressive for its time) and Discovery.
Steve Shives brought me here, and you gained a subscriber :)
Very well done video, it touched a lot of very good points and issues and it didn't felt long at all despite being over an hour in time. I look forward to watching more of your content!
Nimoy's scene with Kim Catrall when he mind rapes her in The Undiscovered Country shocked me to my core when I saw it in the Theater.
André Raymond - it did me as well. I honestly couldn’t imagine Spock behaving like that no matter what the circumstances. I still cannot watch that movie.
Wonderful documentary; the insights are really well-thought out and speak to what I struggle with, and still love, about Trek. From one fan to another, thank you!
Btw, I liked Dr. Pulaski very much. Is something wrong with me? Sisko was a perfect portrayal of how to treat woman properly. Jadzia Dex is indeed feminine and though, something to appreciate very much. After the pilot I learned to like Michael from STD. I found her in overdrive mode in the first episodes and later saw her change for the better. Like most Bajoran woman, Kira and Ro where strong and well written. I agree that Troi was underused and would hope to see more of her. Do you remember Dr. Crusher in that pocket universe, where she had to save the day on her own?
T'Pol fell victim to the portrayal of woman and even Vulcan woman as overemotional.
Nichelle Nichols was just amazing in TOS, the movies and "Of Gods and Men". Commander Shelby was great, likewise Lieutenant Natasha Yar, but Yar was underused too, a bit like Chief O'Brien. Would she have been given an opportunity like O'Brien on DS9, how fabulous that would have been. What she can do is later seen, when the actress is playing Tasha Yars half Romulan daughter.
I want to add that I like STD very much, although it is using technology which seems to be abandoned later. I like it very much.
I liked Dr. Pulaski too.
@@aliciab426 Pulaski is a lot of fun. The suggestion that she's a female version of McCoy has a lot to be said for it too, he was a lot of fun in TOS. I'd go so far as to say Pulaski is the best reason to watch Season Two TNG.
Kate Mulgrew is an amazing soul. I love Jeri Ryan. They both gave the most commanding performances on Voyager.
The most genuine, sincere and heartfelt commentary about trek - clearly you did this because it matters to you, and not just to make content. Thank you 🙂
I appreciate your views and all the work you put into these videos. I also appreciate the care you take in choosing how you’re expressing your views. I was often uncomfortable with many of the depictions of women in TNG but found expressing that unease difficult. You capture the sentiments succinctly. Thank you for calling attention to it.
That Roddenberry quote towards the end…OMG! As sad as it is, it really cracked me up. Just to imagine someone loosing it like that in a creative meeting!
As always,a superb, well balanced commentary. Your Star Trek program led me to listening your other commentaries. Really appreciate you.
Thank you for making this. It was so well done! Even as someone who sees himself as fairly progressive, as a straight white cis male snowflake, I'm always amazed at all the things I miss, both good and bad, because of my background and experiences and how they affects my perceptions. I'm glad Kate said what she did, and that there are people like you around to defend it from a critical, rational perspective.
I think people need to remember two things when it comes to stuff like this.
1. Context. In the context of when and where these shows were made they were indeed very progressive, even revolutionary (esp the original series).
2. Progress rarely happens in big leaps, it almost always happens in a series of smaller steps.
For when it was made and what it has tried to do, star trek has been amazing. Yes it has been flawed, but that was inevitable given the context of the time. But, it tried, and in doing so made it easier for everything that followed it to do better.
At the same time acknowledging it is flawed is not the same as condemning it wholesale. Mulgrew saying "Have you seen the original series and parts of next generation, they were so sexist." Is basically just a statement of fact. TOS was sexist, parts of TNG especially but also VOY and DS9 were sexist. That doesnt mean they're worthless but it is important not to overlook their flaws simply because they were progressive for the time they were created.
This Garrett Wang Clip with him tearing up is so moving. He must have such a kind soul that he has this reaction after years. I started watching Voyager for the first time and I like Harry Kim, very cute and Good Looking 😝
This was so well thought out and presented. Your thoughts and conclusions were spot on. And you are so right when you point out the good and the bad and that this is like life, good and bad. Be thankful for the good and learn from it all so that we can be better tomorrow than we were yesterday.
Congratulations on this great essay!
Really clarified many of the prejudices people like me weren't able to spot due our biased point of view.
The respect through a nuanced and non morally binary critique you showed is not an easy feat.
Historically reviewing social advancement is never and easy task, since most changes never come perfect leaps, but in gradual steps that always leave flawed vestigial prejudices that are overcome in different pacing...
...and you did review it incredibly well! Thank you!
Fantastic video. A lot of food for thought there. Its interesting that even in the next generation era where there was a concerted effort to depict women as mode equal, the background politics were still pretty much misogynistic.
I think it's a shame the female characters were not given time to shine in season 1 if TNG. I would have loved to see the development of L.T. Tasha Yar.
This is the most touching of Jessie’s episodes I’ve seen so far
Love this video. Also, so many female Admirals seem problematic.
I don’t mind that Admiral Satie turns out to be evil, I love a complex & nuanced female villain.
But I find it strange that a woman who is well past her youth, has clearly had an illustrious career and risen to the rank of Admiral, seems to think of herself primarily as “Judge Satie’s daughter”.
There used to be a trope of the only successful women following in the footsteps of their father.
It’s why I like that it turned out that it was Geordie’s mother who was in Starfleet. It turned the trope on its head
Don't think that women from the 60's missed any of the down sides. But I loved the positive messages. Thank You so much for this very clear look Star Trek.
Even as someone who grew up devouring behind the scenes info on Star Trek, Fifty Year Mission was a massive source of new information and perspectives and if anyone is interested in taking a deep dive, it's probably the definitive book on the production history.
This video is so well done. The way you loop back to the quote by Kate Mulgrew was super cool. This was even a little academic in the way it was structured. Love it. Great job!
Just found this through Steve Shives. Your delivery is excellent, I love how you manage to keep it fun and engaging while making incisive points on serious topics and framing both the positive and negatives of each context. My only issue is I find the wavy video captures from the source material really hard to look at for a longer period of time. I guess it helps to have your own presentation style though. In any case, thank you for your video. Subbed, you were at 9.99K, hope you get that 10K real quick!
Your videos are amazing. I've been re-watching a lot of the original series while living in West Africa and it's been really making me think about how far we have to go but also how far we have come.
sorry... quick pronunciation guide... it's Yeoman (YOH-man) with a long O sound. Just so you know. Anyway, excellent coverage. Roddenberry's production in TOS was riddled with male dominance both overt and subtle all too common in those days... AND OUR TIMES TODAY! Terry Ferrell's departure from DS9 occured thirty years later under just as harsh treatment. I feel that the biggest pain point for some fans regarding Mulgrew's comments is that we think the criticism is too easily laid on TOS' back when all the series have terrible examples of sexism both on screen and off. Terry Ferrell's situation comes home recently when she describes the abuse in the new Deep Space Nine documentary... though it's been a quarter of a century since her departure, she still carries the pain very closely. The franchise may even continue to suffer, like most of Hollywood, from systemic sexism fueled by skyrocket ratings for sexist productions. Time will tell after the current series closes in the years to come. Thanks for including the full story!!
Amazing video. When I examine older Trek I try to understand the intent, it’s not perfect, the people making are ‘off their time’ which leads to issues but as society moves on, so has Trek and that’s all we can ask.
One moment of Trek at its best which I think is often overlooked is the Voyager episode ‘Blood Fever’, the way it tackles consent and Tom’s reaction to B’Lanna is one of the best I’ve even seen.
They could just have given Seven a normal Starfleet uniform afther her first season. It migth actually have helped
When I think of Star Trek and misogyny, something that comes to mind that was not mentioned in this video is Ferengi culture and how they treat women.
Indeed! I did think about including it, but I wanted the video to more focus on the behind the scenes, as well as misinterprited or unintentioned representations of women on Star Trek. The treatment of women by the Ferengi, while certainly bad and did have issues, was also something intentional by the writers and that they were actively condemning as part of the actual text of the show. that’s not to say they were entirely successful. I wanted to save them most for an entire video at some point down the line.
I never really think about that as an example because it was always show in a negative way. 🤷
This video popped up in my recommended vids and I'm glad that I clicked on it.
I just rewatched this & have to remark again how wonderfully sophisticated & morally nuanced this was.
Just wanted to say thanks for the content. Ive been having bad panic attacks for about a year (some last days) and I was going through one yesterday. It can get pretty rough. After a while I put on YT to try and get out of my head, and stumbled upon your channel. Spent all morning watching your videos and it really helped me come back and calm down. You have a non-toxic way of saying things that I am still trying to learn. So just thank you, and keep it up, and link the places you buy trek jackets and merch cause I want all of them lol
As a culture we need to accept the fact that even when we idolize someone, they're going to have flaws; flaws that don't entirely corrupt the good they've done, but nevertheless need to be addressed and hopefully remedied so they can grow and improve as people.
Thank you Jessie for your honest approach but especially for your nuanced approach with the interesting subject of the women of Star Trek.
Well presented and passionately said. You are a true credit to the Star Trek fanbase!