Lagoon 450 Review. Is this still our favourite production Catamaran? Perfect Live-Aboard Size.
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- In this episode of Cruising Off Duty, we continue our series where we are checking out the Catamarans at the Annapolis Sailboat Show to see what we think would suit us as a for a live-aboard catamaran for when we sail full-time as we circumnavigate the globe.
This episode we cover the Lagoon 450 Catamaran. Last year this was our favourite ""Mass Production" Catamaran. We feel 45' is the perfect size Catamaran for a full time floating home. Big enough to be comfortable, with lots of storage capacity, without being crazy big for as sailing couple to handle. But, is the Lagoon 450 still our favourite production Cat? Watch to see what we think.
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Hey Gang! This is the first time I have tried this new UA-cam option of scheduling my latest video to be a Premiere. This allows the Creator to watch the episode live for the first time with the viewers and interact with them live in the comments on the right side as the Premiere is being played for the first time. Once the premiere is done it will be turned into a normal episode as you would have seen in the past. Supposedly the live chat comments are still viewable in the recorded version and I have the option to remove the comments if they end up being more of a distraction. We shall see how it goes. Let me know what you think about this Premiere way of publishing videos. It could be a cool way for viewers to feel more of a connection with the Creator as we all watch together and get to interact in the comments, Live. I hope you enjoy it! Craig
New to your channel and really enjoyed the two walk-throughs of yours I've watched today. If you go with live chat one of you might want to log in under another account to moderate in real time (not that you'd get any ruffians in here :-)
Great idea
These Lagoon have major issues with the bulkhead!!! It was discuss in Sailing Parley Revival channel and other owners as well.
K
What issues?
@@Chebab-Chebab major cracked bulkhead. Check out sailing parley revival channel.
Another great video
Thanks for all your hard work
Thanks for the positive feedback Mark.
Hey Craig
Love the 450 as well.
Another good video and am enjoying your reviews of all of them.
Cheers from NSC.
Thanks Steve. Ah, NSC. I miss that place. So close to home to have our boat there. But we opted for the much bigger water. Now we will be in Kingston until we sell this boat.
Hey guys, another fantastic video. You just reviewed the boat I have been looking at for 3 months now, although a much older model. I really like the layout, especially the full showers instead of wet heads. I appreciate all your previous feedback and look forward to more reviews. Keep your vest on Craig so you get to enjoy this. blessings
Thanks DD. Safety first. ;-)
Can t wait for the next episode! Peace
Thanks Thor. Good to hear.
That was fun. I didn't know what this youtube premier thing was all about until now.
It was fun to try putting out a video that way. Getting to exchange comments and questions live during the initial viewing made it much more interactive. I may do that more in the future. Nice to see you there in the comments.
I thought I might watch this live but then I noticed the time - 4am (local for me) - so ... I enjoyed it afterwards. :-)
I think the 50 will be interesting so I’m looking forward to your review. Thanks again and best wishes.
Well. Glad you thought about watching Live. The 50 is very nice. Probably not for just a couple though. It's BIG!
My wife and I saw the Lagoon 450. I was one of our first picks too!!!!
It is the right size in our oppinion. But, we see some other boats that we are starting to like more.
The boat would be dangerous in heavy seas. Almost every cabinet has sharp corners. Glad to see Janice noted this.
They all seem to now!
That’s my dream boat also. Go for it
That was filmed yrs ago now. We have found other boats we like more, since then. :-)
Nahh not strange nice, have much fun with your 450s
By the way, don’t take the washer / dryer combi offered my most manufacturers.
If you are planning on going island hopping, you will probably be forced to clean large bed items on the islands since they will not fit in these washers. This will cost you a pretty penny.
Instead, go for the largest washer that will fit in the same space, and dry your clothes inside an empty cabin by extending a retractable line (like those at hotels). When anchored somewhere, you should be able to dry the clothes outside as well when it is not raining.
The extra floor space in the owners cabin facilitates a compact "desk" treadmill and some other exercise equipment that is good for longer passages or extended onboard stays.
True. You can definitely make use of that space.
Totally agree about the F model versus the S model.. especially for owner, operated cat..
Thanks. F only makes sense in a crewed charter boat.
This is a great idea to review all these cats at the show, thanks for the time you’ve taken and remember it’s only $500 to put another sink in 👍. The kysna is my fav so far and I’m sure it’ll keep its value and condition much better than the others. Are you doing a Antares 44?
Thanks Simon. Yes we show the Antares in a future episode. It is really nice. But not cheap for a 44'.
Good show Craig and Janice
Just wondering are the berths fore and aft similar in size to the lagoon 42, with the hull of the 42 just shorter so that it can't accommodate the full double head and shower
The 450 is a bit bigger but not by a lot. The 42 uses it's space very efficiently. I think you are right. The v-birth was probably pushed further aft to get the space and therefore they could not give it a separate shower.
The biggest problem (for me) with fly-bridges is that the move the centre of effort very high off the water. Enjoying the series very much, thanks for making it.
Thanks Jim. I agree totally with your point. The higher boom is harder to work on and makes for a much shorter mainsail. I just see no benefit to a flybridge for what Janice and I want and that option also comes at a premium.
I have been researching Catamarans for about 10 years now with the same end goal as yourselves. My number 1 choice would be the Royal Cape 530. It does have a lower bridge deck than some other cats but as it is basically 2 mono-hulls joined the increased volume negates it being lower and you get so much living space and storage. Value for money it is hard to beat. It sails just fine but you won't be winning any regatta's. If money were no object then I would be looking hard at the Isara 50. @@Bowmans-Woods
If you will spend one or two months of each year on land once you get your boat, then get a device to freeze dry your food. In fact, start now since freeze dried food can be stored for decades.
They are expensive, but they will save you time, money, weight, and space each time you go to sea. Plus they will ensure you always have food onboard.
You save money by buying when food is cheap, plentiful and storing it in advance.
This will save you money once you are out at sea since food on an island is much more expensive than buying in bulk at a farmers market or at Costco, and it will maintain some variety in your diet with food you like. For instance, steaks are very expensive on an island. Some vegetables or fruits may not be available on an island during the time you land there due to shipping issues or simply being out of season.
A final couple of reasons for doing this has to do with freezers and fridges. You may require less of these with a freeze dryer, and if one of them goes bad while on cruise, you will still have food onboard until you get a chance to fix or replace it.
I mentioned the remoteness of the flybridge compared to the sports to my wife.
She said "Do they have an option for a helm station halfway up the mast?"
(I think she is trying to tell me something).
HaHa. Too funny!
No, he has a point. I can fully understand with 2 aboard that you need to be in visual contact. I like the sport models myself. If you watch other globe sailors you will find they all have a sport model. Super important if there are just 2 people on ,doing long transits. That's why I also like the dinette to fold into a bed. That way you're in quick contact when 2 are needed at the helm for watch. The fly bridge models are great if your not going far and want a 30+ people party boat. Fly bridges also takeaway space for solar power. Just my 2 cents.
It would be good at the end of the series to produce a table listing each boat reviewed, price, features, and your opinions. You could use this to produce a "COD" score for each boat. This could be revised periodically as new cat variants are released or reviewed. It would be interesting to see how the COD scores vary as the cats evolve.
At the end, we tend to mention in a video what our favourite 5 were. But it's hard to score them without taking them out sailing. We are just window shopping for comfortable interiors. In essence, saying "Would this boat be comfortable to live on at anchor?". Im sure if we gave it a COD score without sailing them, people would be upset.
He's already mentioned why the pricing isn't on there. Jes.
My pet peeve also is the sharp corners
Thank you for the video. I personally like the extra storage in the master rather than the seat.
Very nice review. We were able to get on this boat during the power week. We didn't get on the 42 so we couldn't compare the size difference but we loved this boat. The size is perfect.
Interesting about the seating in the master cabin. I know is preference so I'm not knocking either of you but I actually think the seating would be a waste of space and prefer the extra storage. How many times would you actually sit there? We have seating in our bedroom and they make great cloths hangers haha. Again, I know is preference. I also like the front seating so I'm interested in your comparison of the Leopard when you review them since they have the front seating and forward slider.
I'm conflicted with the fly bridge. I like the view and extra seating up top as well as the cockpit but as you pointed out being separated from your significant other would be an issue for us (I like being with each other!). There's also the performance issue since you lose sail size. In the end we'd prefer the sport.
Again, nice review please keep them coming!
I can see her using it and there is some storage under the seat and probably behind the back rest. But, less. No flybridge for us. Smaller sail. Hard to talk to each other. More exposed to the wind and weather when at helm. Sport seat ticks all the boxes for us.
You probably have all the specifications of each boat you have presented in UA-cam.
Would you consider making a video with the ratios based on these specifications to compare them?
These ratios are things like the sailing area to displacement or Froude’s number to deadweight.
These ratios would provide valuable information to understand where each boat you present is in relation to other boats presented by you guys.
Down the road when we narrow down the boats we are seriously considering, I will definitely get more into the exact specs, but too many boats at the show to do, plus you have different Leo configurations even with in one model.
wow , a couch is want in a master ? I would have thought more hanging lockers for cloths and a shoe rack
Happy wife, happy life. She wants to sit in her room, who am I to say no . 😀. Extra storage would be good as well.
Have you checked out the washer/dryer in the shower area? Recessed into the forward locker? I like that area. I bet that's an easy area to install one. The plumbings all ready there?
I agree. Who has a couch in a bedroom. Apart from hotels. Anf really, id be embarrased to admit i wanted one even if i did. First world probs eh.
The one thing I don't like about the Flybridge on this cat, and several others, is that while you may have a bimini, you don't have any weather protection. Who wants to be on the flybridge trying to drive the boat, say in a harbor where there is a lot of traffic, in a rainstorm or foul weather?
Nope, give me something with weather protection. I don't mind the flybridge design, even with two people, if both are qualified sailors (something I am not!), but, I agree that it's nice to be able to see an talk with your shipmate if there are only two of you onboard, just to have some clue as to what's going on.
Okay, this was last November, and I'm sure Craig has fallen totally in love with the X5 (waiting for the rest of the videos in the series), but did you guys ever look at a Privilege Serie 5 or the new 510 Navigator? Probably in the same ballpark as the X5 price-wise, but maybe a nicer boat. Can you tell I'm biased? Too much time researching this, and not enough money!! LOL
The 44’-46’ class seems like the perfect size that I’ll be looking for in a few years. I’ll be avoiding any flybridge models. I want to be able to stand and reach the boom and main sail easily. Having it that high just seems like disaster waiting if you have to do anything with it when there is any wave action. It’ll be interesting in a few years to see what the used market for flybridge and non-flybridge models is going to be. Flybridge is good for the charter market but I think they will take a big hit on resale.
All good points Garrett. We also see major problems with the height of the boom on a Flybridge models. I am sure we will not get that type in the future.
Great review. Still sharp corners around the saloon and the cabins. Did you review the Fountain Pajot and the Leopard 450 and compare the water clearance underneath the saloon?
Thanks Giovanni. Yes we cover the FP and Leopards in future episodes. Most of the cats I filmed underneath.
Cruising Off Duty this article address the importance of bridgedeck clearance and make some example for calculating the most efficient one for each use.
catamaranguru.com/images/pdf/%20catamaran_bridgedeck_clearance.pdf
Thank you for showing this important item on catamarans.
So I know the couch is preferred but remember there are lots of places to sit on a boat but having a couch in the master takes up a ton of possible storage space which there is never enough of. My bet would be you would trade the settee for a washer/dryer in cabinets. I would at least. I also wish they would share 1 shower on the other hull and make it bigger and give back some more room in the cabins. I’ve seen that before but not sure where.
I hear what you are saying. The couch is not a MUST. Just a thought she had at the time. You are probably right. She probably would only sit there to put on clothes. You could just as easily sit on the end of your bed. The extra storage is a plus, so hard to say what we would choose. Probably 50/50 decision.
Hi Craig/Janice. Have been watching a few of your videos and tried to get in on the live chat, but failed to master the technology. I just wonder whether you were looking at the Fountaine Pajot 47 at all this time round. We are interested in being long-term liveaboards and looking at the Lagoon 450S against the Leopard 45 and FP 47. We are having a test sail on the FP 47 on Monday and have yet to go on a Lagoon 450. Just wondered what you though of those 450S compared to the FP 47 in terms of build quality etc. Keep up your search and showing us the boats you are looking at. Good luck.
There is an upcoming episode showing the FP47. It is very nice. I can't recall until I review the footage during editing if we liked it more than the Lagoon 47. We will have to wait for that episode.
Thanks for the response. I look forward to seeing more cats and your summing up. 👍
Great. Glad you are watching and enjoying the content.
The finishing layer on cabinet's fronts is real wood.
It's called veneer.
Whole wooden cabinetry would be way too heavy, would suck in the moisture, would twist and bend, and would be very expensive.
We expect veneer on all boat. Solid thick wood would be too heavy, we get that.. What we saw there was not real wood veneer. It is fake wood micro thin veneer. The boats you will see in future episodes have real wood veneer.
That “round is back” picture at the end is of an older generation Leopard 46. Not sure if that was just an example of a rounded interior, but it’s definitely not the new Lagoon.
Oh damn. I googled Lagoon 46 interior and that picture came up. hmmmm. So we may be disappointed again. Not sure if she mentioned it, but Janice is not a fan of square cabinets. ha ha
My issue with sailing cats is that they seem to lack protection for the helmsman during stormy weather where hypothermia is an issue. It does not take an hour for exposure to wind, rain and waves to cause hypothermia when the temperature is in the fifties (Fahrenheit) .
Some cats give you great protection from wind and spray. This is not one of them though.
I’m not quite sure why there isn’t some little, basic steering station inside..... and no complete dodger? Really?
the mesh over the windows can be peel off :)
So far the Majestic 530 looks like the best
We see another Flybridge version of the Majestic 530 in this show (future episode). We far preferred the 530 we showed in last years episode. I almost feel like pointing back to last years episodes instead of showing this new one, but we filmed it. Might as well show it.
On the Lagoon 50 there is only the Flybridge, and for the moment on the 46 also.
Ya. We learned that about the 50. Was not aware of the 46 because it was not at the show to check out. Hopefully next year we can see it. Shame if it only came in Flybridge.
Funny, you guys wanted a couch in the master stateroom. My wife and I saw a 450 with the couch, and we wanted it removed. Who wants to sit around downstairs with so many lounge areas upstairs and outside?? To each their own I guess.
I agree with you. Janice seems to want a couch. I dont think it is needed. I will try to convince her of the need for more storage. :-)
@@Bowmans-Woods If you watch Wiley Sharp's channel, he mentions it in his walkthrough of a Leopard 45
Guess we need to call the new "Princess Seats" and we can call the older bigger ones "Queen Seats" :) Princesses haven't had kids yet...
HaHa. Yes the 40 and 42 were child-sized. This one was big enough for a full-sized butt. Maybe called "Ample Princess" seats. Some future boats have even bigger seats. They can be called big ass Queen seats.
French sized and North American sized
The X boat just to me feel like that I would never truly own the boat with them always linked to it keeping tabs on in
HaHa. I am sure when you are in the middle of the ocean they can not keep tabs as there is no internet. Just batch upload your engine specs for them when you get to the next harbor. They only do it to help you keep up with maintenance. I am sure you could always opt out if it bothers you. :-)
#28 How much did our Leopard 45 Catamaran cost? | Sailing Sisu in Cape Town South Africa. Watch this on UA-cam!
Also, why would you want a couch instead of storage space ?
I guess she wants a comfortable place to sit. If it is just us there should be plenty of storage all over the boat for us. The couch still has storage under it and behind the backrest
Those 2018 prices are going to be base prices or charter commitments. That’s why older boats on YW had higher prices than 2018’s. Because the 2018 prices aren’t for optioned, delivered and commissioned boats.
If you’re curious about the real cost, ask a broker for a “price list”. If you search for boat model and that term sometimes you can find one online. As a rule of thumb the optioned price including delivery and commissioning is going to be 25% (minimal options) to 40% (pretty loaded) higher than the base price.
It’s a bit of a bitter pill.
HTH
Well the flybridge is great for social distancing during a quarantine😂
Ha Ha. Yes. If you want to be alone. That is a good helm position.
Wouldn’t touch one of these, but I have a feeling the prices will be falling on these!
I now hear there are some QC issues. That being the case, Id now avoid it.
I’m soooooo glad I’m not married, JFC!!!
Ok. I am glad I am. Being middle aged and single can be a lonely. I’m guessing. So we both got what we wanted. 😁
All things can be changed, with wood especially, will change the whole feel.
Yes. Real wood or wood veneer always makes a boat feel richer and feels like the effort for quality workmanship was important to the builder. IKEA fake wood, does not.
I think that photo at the end where you mention the lagoon 46 is actually a leopard 46.
Nope. Straight up and down windows. So clearly a Lagoon. Just a totally new boat so the hull looks quite modern.
@@Bowmans-Woods - the boat at about the 12:43 mark? It does not look like typical Lagoon windows and it has the steps out the front window. Set up is identical to the Leopard 46.
I swear dude. Look at 12:36. Same boat from the front. Straight up and down windows. Only Lagoons look like that. It's just new so they have slightly changed the shape of the hull. Why would I lie to you. ha ha. It looks good, if you like Lagoons.
You keep commenting negatively on the trampolines, but keep in mind larger aperture trampolines help to reduce slamming on the boat. One would be surprised how much slamming occurs at the trampoline not allowing wave energy to dissipate upward, it helps to reduce stress on the rest of the boat as well.
We are not expecting it to be solid. But that is tiny tiny rope. Something a little wider and bit softer can be found on other Cats.
'GALLEY ON THIS ONE IS NOT AS NICE!'
Not the best we will see. No.
So is this a boat or a condo?
Sort of both.
This is a nice looking Cat, but the bridge clearance is very low and the fly bridge is sitting to high. Way to much windage.
Ya. We are not a fan of flybridge cats. Boom ends up way too high.
She’s very positive isn’t she.
just decided on the 450s 💛
That is a good size for a live-aboard Cat. Lagoons feel bigger than any other builder. 45' Lagoon feels like a 50'
Why do they cos t more than houses?
A lot of design and safety goes into them. But I agree. Many do seem overpriced. That's why we plan to buy used.
Yes it does look low.
I thought so too.
You should watch the videos of Cat Impi...Lagoon 440, same layout as 450F. Ana and Brent, for the past five years live aboard couple from Europe to South Africa, Panama, Fidji, NewZealand,back to Australia and New Caledonia. They demonstrate the safety of the fly bridge in hard conditions. And plenty of hands on experience, trouble shooting and optimization !
Seen it. thanks
Impi prefer the rope type trampoline because in heavier seas the waves pass through.
What happened to Janice's quest for a washing machine?
You will see her looking in future boats.
Do thrse thing actually sail! And the clearance was hard to judge. What is the clearance?
Yes. and it seemed a bit low but I can't really get under and measure it.
Are you guys going to be buying a new boat ?
No. We are looking at the new boats because 4 years from now these boats will be on the used market, which is what we will be searching for. A good well treated and appointed used cat.
Cruising Off Duty great idea
Me too. Thanks for the homework. :-) I did a bit of switching around a year ago and Lagoon is still my fave cat for the $$. My fave feature on lagoons are the windows. They don't beam sunlight, into the salon because the windows are not angled, and the vision/view is the best Everything else can be added or replaced.
everyones on the band wagon of "set reminder premiers" WHY?
It allows the viewer to interact live with the Creator as you all watch the video for the first time together and get to respond to live comments and questions. It is the first time I have tried this feature. We shall see how it goes.
In my humble opinion. Very old design. Nothing said about the rig and sail plan. All the other new Lagoons have their masts further aft. Smaller Main and options for a variety of headsails. The 450 Still sails OK but the new 46 will have the rig back and should perform a whole heap better and be an easier boat to sail. Cheers Peter A
Yes. It is starting to look a bit dated. The 46 was not at the show. Would like to see it.
11:18 gah! that stove/oven is crap.
C R A C K E D B U L K H E A D
So I have heard. This is an old video. Did not know of that issue back then
@@Bowmans-Woods I was just joking lightly, but I really hope you look into it because Lagoona is now offering to repair them for free so long as it’s not caused from wear and tear/running aground/natural forces.
It saddens me that you will probably never buy anything near "the perfect catamaran" because your wife will probably not like the décor.
Rest assured there are some cats coming up in future episodes that she does love. She just doesn't love the IKEA look. Most of the viewers agree with her.
@@Bowmans-Woods, maybe the viewers that disagree doesn't express it? What you call IKEA look, others call minimalistic Scandinavian contemporary style. It's liked by many because it's not to busy for the eye and let you add what ever decoration that you prefer.
Eddie except it looks cheap and reminds me of everything I wouldn’t want. Like ever bookcase or entertainment stand on the market today. Scandinavian’s enjoy their real wood as well. Minimalism doesn’t equate to cheap laminate imo
I think the real problem is that there are too many “perfect” cats.
@@Bowmans-Woods Most viewers don't agree with her; hence why the company have gone down this route, why they are the most popular cat on the market and why other companies are following the design style.
Lagoon 450 the perfect money pit. Broken bulkheads are a common happening, needing fixing in hundreds of Lagoon 450s. Time and money and the boat will never be the same. Lagoon have runaway from the problem. It’s a manufacturing fault.
That bridge deck is crazy low: that boat will be draggin it's ass thought the waves 90% of the time.
You might be right. Did seem low.
Apparently you have a serious design flaws problem. Everyone one is angry especially wih Lagoon 450.
OK. This is an old video. We no longer are considering a Lagoon as a serious option. Unless someone gave us one. ha ha
Wait till you discover all your bulkheads are broken, warped and crushed. It’s a common fault in them that Lagoon are trying to deny. They are a disaster boat that will cost you. The boat drops hundreds of thousands in value. Avoid them. Watch the Parlay videos on having to rebuild his bulkheads and the hundreds of other owners to come forward.
Yep. I’ve heard that since this video.
I tend to agree with your wife. The dark dreary low light fit outs of yesteryear DID need modernising - but for a boat that costs the best part of $1 Million AUD, where is the cherry wood ?? (Or similar quality timber)?? Cherrywood oozes class and is highly polished and reflects natural light beautifully. Many of the premium motor cruisers have mastered the modern luxury timber look with living areas that still look light and airy and fresh... I would NEVER buy this boat, purely because you are now being convinced by marketing that MDF / Chipboard with plastic laminate, in a marine environment, is acceptable lol.. I mean if they are offering a budget edition and reduced the price by $100K for chinese flat pack man made cabinetry to compensate for lack of crafted timber - then sure... but not like this... thanks.
Hey Brad. Glad you agree with us. Real wood is preferred by us.
She wants her husband within yelling distance... lol.
Ha Ha. Yes. You heard that correctly she admitted on camera that she yells at me. Send Help! haha
The hulls are so fat tho.
True. They are not built for speed. They are built for comfort. Which is good if that is what you are going for. Bad if you want a performance cat.
People who buy these boats are suckers. They drop in value like a rock the moment you buy them and yearly maintenance cost is ridiculous. With the amount of money that you spend on this boat you could buy a house that goes up in value not down like these boats.
K