What I find so heartbreaking, is that what Piper suggests or preaches usually seems so radical, when in fact it is just basic biblical truths. The North American church has forgotten so much of the basic biblical teachings... Lord wake us up
Indeed. I find it crazy how many churches (especially the super large ones) basically just preach what people want to hear and at the same time allowing things that the Bible very clearly states is wrong.
It’s just so sad to see so many people in the comment section saying pastors shouldn’t get anything. My husband is a pastor, we have three beautiful children and one on the way. He also takes care of his sick elderly mother. My husband is always praying for his congregation visiting the sick (which takes gas, car insurance and a well working vehicle). He trains his Deacons and ministers driving back and forth frequently throughout the week. He goes on speaking engagements and revivals constantly developing messages and preaching to many. Bible studies, church meetings etc. these are just to name a few. He is always busy working for the Lord pouring himself out for the Lord’s people. But we live in the world just like everyone else. We have bills, we have to feed our children and provide a shelter. My husband gets paid very little. Well below poverty line. It’s a constant struggle. But he loves what he does, he loves the Lord and he loves people. But even getting paid that little is too much in some people’s eyes??? It’s very disheartening.
I just want to commend you and your husband for the hard work and sacrifices made to help other people. I really hope you are blessed above and beyond very soon with a better financial situation. You deserve to be taken care of for your service to mankind. Don’t pay too much attention to the comments about Pastors not deserving to be paid. They don’t understand the position, and they’re speaking emotionally out of hurt because of the extremely wealthy extortionist Pastors. I was a Christian for 29 years before I left the church and arrived at Agnosticism. Before that, I worked under all kinds of Pastors. The last megachurch I worked for was in my opinion the wrong example of Christ. From incompetence to contempt for the congregation; these men were extremely overpaid for their service. But you and yours don’t qualify to be counted amongst this lot. You should have all your needs met plus a little extra to save, and a little more to have some fun with. That’s not unreasonable at all to desire for your family.
george orlando Thank you. It really helps to hear a personal perspective concerning this. And I do understand why some people may feel the way they do when someone has abused their position in that way. I’m sorry you had to experience the wrong side of ministry but I’m very happy to hear that you haven’t turned your back on God. I certainly hope more Christians would understand that not all pastors are corrupted as not all doctors malpractice. Thank you for your encouraging response! My husband and I will continue to do what we can for people because we love the Lord and love people. May the Lord Bless you and keep you! See you in heaven one day my brother.
@@lynch8418Your first concern must be Jesus's Approval, not money, obey Him that said "Freely ye have received, freely give" and you'll see the miracle of being taken care by God Himself. Stop being like the world, the unbelivers, that say "Where will I get my money from?" receive the truth and give it freely. Jesus is not mute, and certainly not inactive, hear His Voice, be guided by Him, get your provision from Him, not from people. Get right with Him, and get rid of ALL vanity.
Live by the ministry, experiment the position, and then you can say words like that. Is easy say this things when you don't live the pastoral ministry.@@SachaBrixhe
As long as I've been familiar with Piper I had respect for how he did things as a pastor, what little bit I've heard about. When I hear him in this video say that just because he's lead pastor he doesn't think he has to be the highest paid... Wow. I hope that if I ever am in a position (although I'm sure it won't be as public or famous) I'll have that same humility.
I love you brother, a true pastor must remember this. pressed down, shaken together, pouring over. Amen! Most importantly distributing amongst the kindred as needed. Selah.
People , even religious people, think they need much more than what they really do. Having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. - Apostle Paul
Piper with all his expressive abilities expresses a truth that most congregations should know and be taught about. It has been a real challenge for many faithful pastors to survive, and their kids! would not want to become a pastor or get into ministry by seeing the struggles of their parents. Of course, the congregation may never know all theologies like the ministers, but this one truth is so vital.
Wow! Never heard anyone saying that before. Totally a new concept to me that a senior pastor would be happy with a cap to his salary. What an example to all our church leaders today! Thank you Mr Piper! We pray to God for your health and ministry. I think we need you still for many years to come. God bless you!
Best teaching on pastor's salary I have ever heard.
5 років тому
Let's see what Apostle Paul said about himself and the elders receiving remuneration from the Church. Paul speaking: Acts 20: 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring YE OUGHT TO support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. From that passage Paul is saying that he and the elders were to tend to the needs of the church and not the other way around!!!
@ but if the body is working all together in union what makes us think that an arm is more worth then the leg? They both work together for the body to function so it would be ok and fair if both arm and leg get the same portion. Colossians 4:1 Masters, supply your slaves with what is right and fair, since you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
@ Im not talking to the africans you mention but the body of Christ, to each individual takes a part as we read in james 2 it talks about the rich persons and poor persons,yes it does not talk about the function in the church but we both can agree that every person is the same in Gods eyes? We all are bought by a price no one can pay and to say that someone deserves more just because he has a different part is just that what it talks in james. If we all focus on the Gospel we would not want more money for ourselfs but spread it equally and at the end having more money is not the goal hear,now is it? Seek the kingdom of God first and all the things God will take care of and even money and we dont have to worry about it.
Having been a manager in the largest business of its kind in the US I was able to learn wisdom in wise practices. When I started pastoring later in life I quickly learned how poorly church leaders were equipped about finances. The church leaders who have more than they need should live in such a way that they live simply so others can simply live. The pastors who have more should help the pastors who have less. When I went from business my salary as a pastor drastically reduced and so did the respect I was given. Every church leader should be making disciples not just converts.
My pastor worked a full time job while pastoring pretty much full time. He worked for Proctor & Gamble for years, then owned his own business. When he finally 'retired' he simply pastored full time & has refused to receive more than $45K a year for it. The elders have tried to pay him more (we feel he does quite a bit more work than $45K a year), but he has refused. He invested his own money in a 401K/IRA & is a real blessing. I find this video very inspiring.
@@jonathangatto you are Mormon therefore you aren't even a Christian, you are a heretic according church history, the creeds, & orthodoxy at large. So there's that.
@@jonathangatto "I'm Mormon and our bishops aren't paid" Not only am I not impressed by the fact of disobedience by your church, I'm of the opinion that it brings a curse on those that practice this very disobedience. For Christ said that those that withhold food, drink, clothing, shelter, and visitation from the least of His disciples that do His Father's will in heave, do it unto Him. I came to this position after being unemployed, homeless and lacking sufficient food long enough that I became too week to hold a job when I finally found one. After I was terminated from the job, the "associate pastor" said to me; "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat". That was pretty much a death sentence at that point and 10 months later I ended up in the hospital having suffered a myocardial infarction, underwent heart surgery to drain fluid off my heart and came out disabled. Now I see sayings such as; "You're not supposed to be trying to make money, you're supposed to just do it for Jesus" as not only a threat a against the persons life, but telling that person, they are not supposed to be trying to live because that is exactly what is being said. There is amble instruction in the scriptures that require the paying of church leaders and when you consider that it is a commandment, those that are leaders, do not have the prerogative to not receive payment for their labor. Deuteronomy 25:4: Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. 1Corinthians 9:9: For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 1Corinthians 9:13: Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14: Even so established the Lord commandment; they which preach the gospel; shall live of the gospel. 1Timothy 5:17: Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18: For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. Matthew 25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
My new pastor!! Speaks the truth and keeps it real!! The bible doesn't have to be complicated to understand when you have pastors that teach sound doctrine!!!
The indians dont need pastors, they already have a more evolved, more secular and more intelligent approach to the worldsoul (christ), to god (parabrahman) and to the holy spirit (nirguna brahman). No one needs pastors because the holy worldsoul IS INSIDE YOUR HEART. This worldsoul is the bridegroom, and your individual soul is the bride. Knowing that you are both christ/vishnu AND the individual soul, how has preaching any value? Any separation between the worldsoul/redeemer and the soul, is satanism. Preaching dualism, these fishpriests are really satans minions, living in delusion and being devoid of any love, but full of fear and stupidity.
Good honest man❤️💯 I find joy listening to elders, they’re real, genuine, and they believe in the simple things in life. All they care about is honoring God, walking like Jesus, helping people, and content with just having enough❤️🙏🏻 ...it saddens me knowing that these true good people will not be here forever😢 my hope & prayer is that their values & influence will be past on to us young upcoming leaders so that our children will live the same from generation to generation in Jesus holy Name. Amen🙏🏻🙏🏼🙏🏿🙏🏽
Missionaries have multiple churches which support them. You have to think about that. Pastors have the one church which supports them. It all works out.
@@ronschueler909 you sound like someone who's had a bad experience mate. Who said 4% is what churches usually give? My church gives several times more, and im in fellowship with other churches that give even more than my own! And whats the context? 4% of 10,000,000 is 400,000 which seems pretty supportive. Don't ever let a poor personal experience cloud your judgement and assume thats the same standard everyone follows.
lol - just be a doer of the word (or more of a doer), and be just like him....maybe even greater! That will bless your family and grand children! 👍🏼 God loves us just as much as he loves pastor John, and can and will use us as much, or even more than him, if we love God as Pastor John does. Bless you, Mickael
I think a well-balanced view.Money is more a sign of danger than a sign of blessing.Make as much as you can; save as much as you can; give as much as you can.Don't symbolize what you earn -- don't show off how much money you make.
You know I saw a video of him with an old shirt on it seems simple but it makes me think of humility. It’s rare to see honesty and simplicity in today’s world.
Wow! That's a biblical perspective which many pastors and Christians hopefully will embrace. It sounds foreign because of the influence the world has on us. Oh, may we have a balanced biblical viewpoint.
very much respect to pastor piper.... i wish lots of these prosperity preachers we have now and days listen to this cos lots of them are even in more danger than the members.....
LOL imagine if my pastor dad didn't get a salary. Even on his salary my mum had to eat gifts of biscuits from church members (given during special days like Christmas, New Year's etc) and leave what little money we had for groceries for us (her 2 young children and husband). Imagine if my dad went back to his secular job to support his family and effectively had less time to minister to the church members who needed him and less time to preach and evangelise. Imagine being church members that could financially support their pastor and full-time church workers but refused to because they think it 'corrupts' church leadership. Imagine being so selfish.
AMEN. reading these comments makes me so sad the people claim to be Followers but clearly disobey Gods word in this area because they believe pastors "shouldnt be paid because they dont agree with it." What a foolish thought!! Clearly have no idea what it takes to run a church, NONE! And unfortunately the people that cause all these issues are the ones who dont attend every week, dont tithe faithfully and dont read Gods work in context, only to fit their foolish agendas! Im pretty triggered if you cant tell lol.
Everybody in the church has an *invoice* for God. But won't hear his *voice.* *No charge* was *his charge* to you at *calvary,* and you still want a *fee.*
tom blake being a preacher is a full time job, always on call. I don’t think they should be paid a large amount but it is a tough stressful job. You are responsible for dealing with around 100 families for example and the hardship that is put on your heart while dealing with tragedy in most of those families is difficult to bear. That being said they shouldn’t be paid excessive amounts.
Great points. The church should strive to have a pastor who can live a middle class income. This way he doesn't have too much nor does he have too little for his family.
Our board used pay for school teachers in our area with similar experience and education as a baseline for the lead Pastor's salary which, at the time was woefully low. Constraining it against the actual income and responsibilities of the church we set a target salary and began working towards getting to to the desired level. This combined with a good performence evaluation and crystal clear demarcation of board/staff responsibilities has worked well for us. God is blessing us more and more as we have been dilligent in these and other areas.
David Pearson the discussion is already on the table for the church to remove the wide disparity among pastors. Salaries at this point is not necessarily a sign of hard work or poor work. A congregation alone at times cannot do what is needed to be able to help themselves etc much more people outside. Pentecostal churches have a way to forget the last part of Acts 2 where sharing and Christian love is exemplified. It is a very sad reality trust me.
Piper's message is a hard pill to swallow in a day when Christians are more concerned about visible signs of success and blessing. Hope the denom can turn this around and truly honour their workers.
Preachers, if you are called to preach by Jesus Christ, do not expect anyone to pay you. Trust and expect your Lord to pay you. If He doesn’t pay you you are not called, go and get a job. If you receive pay from people, they control you. You will end up flatter them. Paul received offering and not salary. Preaching the gospel is not a job, but a calling. Pastoring is not a profession, but a calling, working for the Lord and not men. We need strong independent preaches who don’t fear men but God.
The role of a pastor is a huge responsibility, a good expositional message takes 15-18 hours to prepare, then there are other responsibilities. The challenge for a bi-vocational pastor is to have time for God, his family, work, himself and God. I have visited many churches, listened to many sermons, and realize the reason the church is in trouble is the weakness in the ability of many to really herald the word of God. Some men are truly called, others are just filling a position. Regardless, a church shouldn’t keep their pastor poor, nor should they feel obligated to buy him a jet. Like John Piper said, there is a big difference in what it costs to live in different parts of the country. My dad was a school teacher and always had to work one or more side jobs to keep our family fed, so maybe that is not the standard. You have to realize some of these men have advanced degrees and to really preach must be constantly learning. A good pastor works very hard and is on call 24 hours a day, maybe the standard for those who have made comments is to compensate a pastor the same as their medical physician if one must have a comparison.
You are very fortunate if you can find a pastor who knows how and will to do expository preaching and teaching. It seems many are too lazy to spend the needed time to do that.
Matthew 10: 7-8 "As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."
The rich women who followed Jesus gave them. All except Paul got an income. Paul had no family to support. He was single. Look at Holland where most pastors dont get paid in evangelical churches. There is no counselling, Bible school or good teaching. Aint nobody got time fo that. Family comes first.
After Christ Jesus and Paul the Apostle, I am 3rd most grateful to the Lord for giving us Pastor John Piper. He is third on my list. He is INCREDIBLY inspirational and faith affirming. Thank God for that man and the brain God gave him.
That's kind of ridiculous...Moses? Peter? John? David? The prophets? All those people rank under John Piper for you? Piper himself would be appalled at that.
Still canot believe i use to go to World Changers Church eek. Also amazing quote. “Im not saying don’t make a lot of money, im saying don’t keep a lot of money”
Somewhere I heard that a reasonable salary for a pastor is what a school teacher makes in their community. If it's a big church or otherwise more demanding, then the principal or school superintendent. I wouldn't want to be rigid about that but I think it's a good starting place.
It’s also necessary that the pastor is lead by the Spirit. Most of the promises of rich people did saying they will support my ministry went down the drain of love of money. Most times people that are sincerely giving just do it and they don’t say it. I’ve learned to trust God for my provision more than men and this made me spiritually rich while some of those rich folks are spiritually poorer although they make more money.
Church is a big business nowadays. In churches with a lot of members, there will be millions coming in. Even after paying utilities, there will be a lot of money left. The question is then what to make use of the money in what is a non-profit organization. What usually happens is that a lot of the money is used as salary to pay people that work in the church. While I do think pastors should be accommodated, I do have a problem with a working-age pastor being paid like a full-time employee at a big corporation. Being a pastor is not a profession.
How dare you say "In my view" when your "view" contradicts the word of God?! If you call yourself a Follower of Christ then wake up and read His word IN CONTEXT and let the Lord speak to your heart. Your feelings and opinion mean nothing if they contradict Gods word. Dont even get me started on how foolish it is to think pastors can lead congregations (especially a few hundred people or more) when theyre working 50 hours a week and need to lead a church of hundreds as a "side job." In love bro, wake up!!! I hope you attend church regularly (EVERY WEEK) and tithe faithfully. Can't stand it when half hearted people who dont even read Gods word think their opinion has weight over the Word of God.
@@John37ful wow calm down pls and control your emotion cuz you are showing some bad attitude contradicting Christ.. You don't even know me or whether I go to Church daily or whether I study Bible daily or my education. You are contradicting your own words and very much offended by the word (maybe you are one of those who are robbing believers by taking salary). How about this - in Bible's veiw, Paul did not take any salary from the church but worked himself to pay the rent and serve those who come to visit him - he even says he did this to be an EXAMPLE and Paul also says " FOLLOW ME". it's very suspicious that you write as if you are a Christian but you are committing sin in your comment (reminded of Saduces n Pharisees plus they would have definitely supported your argument regarding taking salary). If you are a true believer/pastor, you would not rely on Churches money but simply rely on "the Lord is my provider". Praise the Lord and calm down pls.
@@badboy8526 i can tell this convo will go no where with my words, so here is scripture. Feel free to read the entire chapter for further context. Please note that the last passage, PAUL HIMSELF says he received pay from other churches, it was only the church of Corinth he felt compelled to minister to for free. and good on him. Im calm buddy, but you better know what you're talking about before you make big statements that are totally incorrect. Also your statement about paul saying "follow me" couldnt be more incorrect. Paul said to the church, this is what im doing, BUT im the exception to my own rule, pay your leaders. So yes, i do know that you havent studied Gods word (at least well anyway). Thats nothing to be ashamed about, this is all said in love. Please refer to the scripture below. 1 Corinthians 9 13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. 15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast. 1 Timothy 5 17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honour, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The labourer deserves his wages.” 2 corinthians 11 8 I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.
@@John37ful haha wow this bro (funny how he started calling me "buddy" after calling me bro initially) literally Googled those verses and then copied and pasted. Again u wrongly judged me. I am done out here. this is will be my last comment. Just like u I can also cherry pick verses but not gonna get down to your level. Those money he received are like free gifts from believers not salary. Say what u wanna say but the bottom line is Paul worked a day job, wrote world-changing letters did so free of charge while earning money through manual labor. And then Just like Jesus, he said " FOLLOW me". U cant Google those verses which have multiple meanings. Common sense also says that When u start giving salary there will be lots of fake workers/pastors. May GOD guide ME and you. Praise the Lord. Bye now.
Thats how it should be? I collapsed after 3 pregnancies, actually 5 in 4 years, because I had to get the money in and be the housewife. The stingy rich thought the pastor should work for free. One woman had a castle w 20 rooms. Come serve me for free this week. Bible school. Lessons the whole week. In depth counselling. Full time job. All for free. I could work to get money in amd that church only gave us debts. He refused to quit serving those rich ppl for free and I collapsed and we divorced. Paid off the debts for years. He's now on benefits. I work part time. 3 kids. Meanwhile these jerks live in their big fat houses and never paid a cent to get rid of that church debt. No wonder churches in Holland have no pastor. One woman in a church complained that they started 5 mins too late. Guy serving said: hold your horses. We're all volunteers here. Be happy there even is a church w almost no food. Bye. They're not slaves. Paul was so kind to do it, but he had no family to support.
Crystal have you read your bible? Paul DID say that...I think Piper knows what he's talking about. and for you to say Paul didnt say that without having scripture to back it is ridiculous. How can people devote enough time to building an incredible church and meeting the needs of everyone if they're working 40/50 hours a week and having to do all the church stuff on the side? It's biblical and anyone that doesn't understand that is either: A. in a very small church (fair enough, you may not need paid ministers) B. totally oblivious to the word of God and the amount of effort it takes to grow the church C. Had a bad experience and then foolishly let a bad experience change your perspective on Gods word. Most churches perhaps struggle to "set up" right because the people these days are so entitled to their foolish ways and false beliefs. I hope you tithe and do so faithfully... Support your church and obey your heavenly Fathers word.
@@John37ful Small church costs nothing? My ex did everything. Counselling prayer Bible school all those courses for free cause I had a job. Paul was single. You can do that when you dont have kids to feed. No wonder there are almost no good churches in Holland. They're not nuts to work double for free. If you need food, go to youtube or America.
I think instead of having a couple people doing a lot of things, everyone should pitch in to do something. That's how we try to do it in the church I Go to. The pastors usually lead and handle stuff that pastors handle (praying with people, preaching, etc.). Most men in our church will be asked to preach at some point so it's not only the pastor preaching. Our youth and other adults will help with cooking, teaching kids, setting up and cleaning up, leading programs (eg. Christmas), etc. Most families will also pitch in monthly for the rent/building costs and other fees. All in all, it helps so that nobody has to be burdened with too much.
@@agentmikster44 Yes but someone has to set that up and first train all these people. My ex tried this and yes they preach now in other churches and it's all for free, but we paid the price and almost noone is so crazy to do that. I can't find a church here. In an 'everyone has something' meeting noone has anything. Most churches here have no pastor, not others who preach good. Nothing. No food in the house cause everyone only cares about their own house. One big rich church in this city. Not going there either. Money grabbers and false teachers. They're popular. Pay your tithes to the rich to get a preaching on how to be successful. No thanks.
I dont know if it’s correct in the context. But when i was reading Book of Numbers it says… “Then the Lord spoke to Aaron, “Behold, I have given you charge of the contributions made to me, all the consecrated things of the people of Israel. I have given them to you as a portion and to your sons as a perpetual due. This shall be yours of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every offering of theirs, every grain offering of theirs and every sin offering of theirs and every guilt offering of theirs, which they render to me, shall be most holy to you and to your sons. In a most holy place shall you eat it. Every male may eat it; it is holy to you. This also is yours: the contribution of their gift, all the wave offerings of the people of Israel. I have given them to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it. All the best of the oil and all the best of the wine and of the grain, the firstfruits of what they give to the Lord, I give to you. The first ripe fruits of all that is in their land, which they bring to the Lord, shall be yours. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it. Every devoted thing in Israel shall be yours. Everything that opens the womb of all flesh, whether man or beast, which they offer to the Lord, shall be yours. Nevertheless, the firstborn of man you shall redeem, and the firstborn of unclean animals you shall redeem. And their redemption price (at a month old you shall redeem them) you shall fix at five shekels in silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs. All the holy contributions that the people of Israel present to the Lord I give to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due. It is a covenant of salt forever before the Lord for you and for your offspring with you.” And the Lord said to Aaron, “You shall have no inheritance in their land, neither shall you have any portion among them. I am your portion and your inheritance among the people of Israel.” Numbers 18:8-16, 19-20 ESV The gifts offered to God, God gives to the Priests as their portion. The portion to be given to the Pastors depends on the church but Pastor’s should have a salary/portion provided by the Lord for His works to continue to advance. There are people God called to be full time ministers/Pastors especially in the third world countries who ae poor and some uneducated but so rich in Faith and really sold themselves out to Jesus and the gospel. Pastor’s should have salary or portion of provision from the Lord❤️😢🙏.
We had a friend who was a pastor who would take his salary and buy food for the poor, he only keep enough to live on ,well they had him committed and said he was crazy.
I had no desire for anyone’s silver or gold or [expensive] clothes. You know personally that these hands ministered to my own needs [working in manual labor] and to [those of] the people who were with me. In everything I showed you [by example] that by working hard in this way you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed [and brings greater joy] to give than to receive.’ ” Acts 20:33-35 AMP
the fact that we have people talking about staff, salaries and lead staff members etc... shows how far the CHURCH has separated from GOD! the Church is secular in many respects. I believe God is judging the secular houses from the family's who are building according the heart of God! this is where sons are trained and equipped for the works of ministry and the fathers are honored!
Let's see what Apostle Paul said about himself and the elders receiving remuneration from the Church. Paul speaking: Acts 20: 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring YE OUGHT TO support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. From that passage Paul is saying that he and the elders were to tend to the needs of the church and not the other way around!!!
And are the elders also called to receive no or minimal pay from the church? are the wise elders who help the needs of the church supposed to be homeless and living week to week? Don't be so quick to grab a piece of scripture out of context to fit your message. You've totally missed the point of what Piper has said. The church leaders need to be able to support themselves. Not loaded, but supported. How can they meet the needs of others if they cant meet the needs of themselves. I pray God gives you a revelation of this.
When a pastor salary is dictated by a system, the system can control what the pastor can and cannot say( preach ). Yes I believe a pastor and staff should be compensated for their labor as long as the pastor and the people want the in adulterated word of God, which is very slim today.
Many pastors take a healthy salary from their church, and while they are supposed to be working in their church for that salary, they are busy writing books or getting with ghost writes, usually getting with ghost writers working with them to get something written so they can sell it. Then they go out and speak at other churches, getting paid for going there to speak, collecting whatever collection comes in too while they are there, and the whole time there is a table set up out in the lobby with their books and tapes of sermons they have given in their own church and the preacher is selling all of that material. There is a wad of money to be had in the preacher business.
eugene bell Many pastors I know don't make enough and are barely scraping by. Ministers I know are working their tales off, working sometimes double what some of their church members work, yet a few leaders within the church (who make six figures or who make more retired than the minister does who has 3 young kids at home) want to give my ministry friends barely enough to live on. Here's a question I have: For those that work in secular jobs on the pew, why is it "answered prayer" or "God's blessing" when they get a raise, yet when the minister asks for a raise (& he hasn't had one in 5 years), they call him "Greedy" or "too focused on money"?
Wasn't Piper speaking about a middle class income? I see this as a good way for a church to deal with finances. Don't let your pastor be poor or rich. He can be right in the middle.
Very good ,agree 100 percent,pasters should be paid reasonably good,but not too good.If they can use wisely what they make ,invest and save and become reasonably well to do .Good for them as long as they remember to give to God also.thanks
It sad,,, i don't name names, i like the way they preach but as i keep digging about World's most sincere Pastors , the one that showed up on my search is World's most richest and powerful Pastor,, with billions and millions of dollars and luxury way of living.😕 Pastor Frederick Price Sr And this Pastor are the man. I salute you Sir for serving the Lord wholeheartedly,,,Jesus is the son of God , King of Kings but during his days in this earth Jesus never ever had any sort of luxury living like what most of million dollars preacher nowadays. There are billions of people around the globe that need to be save,,, need for food, clothings,,, how much these million dollars Pastor's tithe for the Lord our God? Oh,God have mercy.
I think of BH Clendennen saying "no pastor should live better than his congregation. When i pioneer a church it'll be in the bylaws that no pastor can ever make more than 5% more than the median income of the congregation. Also tithing shall never be a necessity in the church
John Piper is a good man of God. I have a question for him: How close are we to fall from Holy Spirit gifts and knowledge when we make our studies and theologies?
the Bible also says: "The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender." or "Wealth brings many new friends, but a poor man is deserted by his friend." or "A good man leaves an inheritance to his grandchildren, but the sinner's wealth is stored up for the righteous." And so yes I agree with John overall about not being "bound" by the love of money. Neither does God want us to be sick and poor.
A teacher works for pay. He does not seek the good of the students primarily, but his own gain. The gain we expect may not be money, but honour. Do we want to be respected and recognised as servants of God by others? Then we are seeking a salary - of honour - from them. Then we are teachers, not fathers. Fathers expect nothing in return for all that they do for their children. Paul did not expect respect or even submission from others. He only sought their spiritual growth. What about us? Do we seek the good of the brothers and sisters in everything that we do? The 'pastor-system' that we find in Christendom today was unheard of in the days of the apostles. It is this unScriptural system that has given rise to numerous teachers in Christendom - teachers who have to be paid a salary each month for the classes they take, and who make their students dependent on them for every major decision in life - whether it be marriage or employment or whatever. The brothers and sisters in such churches never grow up. They remain spiritual babes forever, because this human system robs them of a direct connection with Christ their Head - which is their birthright under the new covenant. How does a father care for his children? In a poor home, the father and mother will not even eat, if there is not enough food for the children. They will gladly deny themselves, and they will not even let their children know that they have not eaten, lest the children feel bad about it. A father hides his self denial from his children. Do we have such a spirit - that denies itself for the good of the brothers and sisters, and will not even let them know about it. Another characteristic of a father is that he is eager to see his children advance beyond him in life - in education and in every other way. There are many fathers who have never studied beyond high school, who sacrifice so much to give a college-education to their children. They are happy to deny themselves the comforts of life for this purpose and they are delighted when their children graduate. No father is ever jealous to see his son advance beyond his status or his educational level in life. That is how a true servant of God will be too. He will be delighted when younger brothers are wholehearted and get revelation from the Scriptures and are used by the Lord to be a blessing to others. He will sincerely long that they should advance beyond him spiritually, and be more useful in the Lord's hands than he has ever been. When we see younger brothers growing up in the church, without any folly being manifested in their lives, because of good leadership that protects them, we should rejoice that they can have such a blessing as we never had when we were young. There will not be even a shade of jealousy in us, if we are fathers. On the contrary, we will be delighted. We will rejoice that it is going well with them. If we are jealous of a younger brother's ministry or influence or spiritual advancement, we are certainly teachers, and not fathers. In a school, if a student can solve a problem that his teacher cannot solve, the teacher will be so angry and jealous, that he will seek to humiliate that student ever after in some way or the other. How do we feel as servants of God when someone points out a mistake in us? Teachers can only build Babylon. Only fathers can build the true church - the New Jerusalem. We may understand and proclaim all the truths of the new covenant, and yet if we do this with the spirit of a teacher we will still build Babylon. A teacher is very conscious of all the labour that he has invested in his students. He thinks of the honour he will receive if his students do well. He is always thinking of what he will gain, even when his students do well. A father however is quite different. He desires only the welfare of his children. He desires nothing for himself. A teacher will criticise his students. A father however will encourage his children. If we keep on criticizing the brothers and sisters, we will accomplish little, even if everything we say is true. A father will accomplish much more by encouraging his children. Only a father can continue to be kind to ungrateful and evil children. A teacher will give up on ungrateful students very quickly. When we have problems with difficult brothers in the assembly, if we hope that they will leave the assembly, even if they destroy themselves, then it should be clear to us that our spirit is that of a teacher. A father can never wish that for any of his children. Jesus told us to be merciful even as our heavenly Father is merciful and kind to ungrateful and evil people (Luke 6:35, 36). As we pursue righteousness, we can very easily degenerate into Pharisees and teachers, if we don't seek to be constantly and endlessly merciful.
My question is about housing allowance and soc sec taxing. I heard that you could pay your pastor a housing allowance that is reasonable as a retirement income and that it would not be subject to soc. sec. taxes. Is this true? Thank you
D & K Grace Pastors are able to take a housing allowance that is exempt from Fed taxes. This is heavily regulated and must be done carefully. This is separate from social security taxes. Pastors at the beginning of their carriers have an option to exempt themselves from social security (no deposit, no withdrawal). This also is heavily regulated and must be done cautiously. Pastors are also responsible for self-employment taxes. All of this should be run by your CPA before action.
It’s not lost on me that brother Creflo was mentioned and brother Copeland and brother Duplantis were not. But I digress. This is still the truth. Greed has made a mighty move to the forefront of our culture Anna politics and unfortunately, it did not miss the church. The prosperity gospel went from changing our mentality from a poverty mindset to one of greed and never having enough. The pandemic revealed it all - people hoarded toilet paper and other items with no regard to those who would have to go without because of their greed.
Why does Paul call for the Elders, plural of the Church, singular to meet him at Miletus, in Acts chapter 20v17-38, and state that the Holy Spirit had made them overseers or Bishops, to spiritually feed the Church of God, singular, and in v33, he said that while he was with them for three years, in v31, and that he did not covet their silver or gold, but worked with his own hands, not only to support himself , but also his fellow servants, so Paul did not take money from the Corinthian Church, or the Ephesian Church, but he did take money that Gentile Churches gave to him to give to the poor Christians at Jerusalem, and when he did, the whole Church received Paul and Barnabas at Jerusalem, and they met with the Apostles and the Elders to discuss the question of circumcision for Gentile Christian, in Acts chapter 15 , In the whole of the New Testament there is not a single verse to support the idea of a pastor of a Church.
The church should own the house and pay the utilities for the pastor and give them a 50k or so salary, depends on the location but the pastor and his family would be decently taken care of... Just my . 02
What I find so heartbreaking, is that what Piper suggests or preaches usually seems so radical, when in fact it is just basic biblical truths. The North American church has forgotten so much of the basic biblical teachings... Lord wake us up
Amen.
Indeed. I find it crazy how many churches (especially the super large ones) basically just preach what people want to hear and at the same time allowing things that the Bible very clearly states is wrong.
Piper is a wolf
@@sarahmichaels2117 right
@@sarahmichaels2117 read romans chapter 9
John Piper has taught me do much, not just theologically but in having the right attitudes as in this video. I am greatly blessed by his ministry.
Sad!
This one made me ball. 😭❤️👑 This has been in my heart for so long. Our commission is to make disciples and go OUT to preach the Gospel! Hallelujah!
bawl
It’s just so sad to see so many people in the comment section saying pastors shouldn’t get anything. My husband is a pastor, we have three beautiful children and one on the way. He also takes care of his sick elderly mother. My husband is always praying for his congregation visiting the sick (which takes gas, car insurance and a well working vehicle). He trains his Deacons and ministers driving back and forth frequently throughout the week. He goes on speaking engagements and revivals constantly developing messages and preaching to many. Bible studies, church meetings etc. these are just to name a few. He is always busy working for the Lord pouring himself out for the Lord’s people. But we live in the world just like everyone else. We have bills, we have to feed our children and provide a shelter. My husband gets paid very little. Well below poverty line. It’s a constant struggle. But he loves what he does, he loves the Lord and he loves people. But even getting paid that little is too much in some people’s eyes??? It’s very disheartening.
I just want to commend you and your husband for the hard work and sacrifices made to help other people. I really hope you are blessed above and beyond very soon with a better financial situation. You deserve to be taken care of for your service to mankind. Don’t pay too much attention to the comments about Pastors not deserving to be paid. They don’t understand the position, and they’re speaking emotionally out of hurt because of the extremely wealthy extortionist Pastors.
I was a Christian for 29 years before I left the church and arrived at Agnosticism. Before that, I worked under all kinds of Pastors. The last megachurch I worked for was in my opinion the wrong example of Christ. From incompetence to contempt for the congregation; these men were extremely overpaid for their service. But you and yours don’t qualify to be counted amongst this lot. You should have all your needs met plus a little extra to save, and a little more to have some fun with. That’s not unreasonable at all to desire for your family.
george orlando Thank you. It really helps to hear a personal perspective concerning this. And I do understand why some people may feel the way they do when someone has abused their position in that way. I’m sorry you had to experience the wrong side of ministry but I’m very happy to hear that you haven’t turned your back on God. I certainly hope more Christians would understand that not all pastors are corrupted as not all doctors malpractice. Thank you for your encouraging response! My husband and I will continue to do what we can for people because we love the Lord and love people. May the Lord Bless you and keep you! See you in heaven one day my brother.
@@lynch8418Your first concern must be Jesus's Approval, not money, obey Him that said "Freely ye have received, freely give" and you'll see the miracle of being taken care by God Himself.
Stop being like the world, the unbelivers, that say "Where will I get my money from?" receive the truth and give it freely.
Jesus is not mute, and certainly not inactive, hear His Voice, be guided by Him, get your provision from Him, not from people. Get right with Him, and get rid of ALL vanity.
@@SachaBrixheyour advice does not come from a place of love but it seems superiority. Just saying
Live by the ministry, experiment the position, and then you can say words like that. Is easy say this things when you don't live the pastoral ministry.@@SachaBrixhe
As long as I've been familiar with Piper I had respect for how he did things as a pastor, what little bit I've heard about. When I hear him in this video say that just because he's lead pastor he doesn't think he has to be the highest paid... Wow. I hope that if I ever am in a position (although I'm sure it won't be as public or famous) I'll have that same humility.
+tonywalker23 Amen! I hope the same with me!
tonywalker23
I love you brother, a true pastor must remember this. pressed down, shaken together, pouring over. Amen! Most importantly distributing amongst the kindred as needed. Selah.
You're response feels me with hope. God bless you brother
People , even religious people, think they need much more than what they really do. Having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. - Apostle Paul
Piper with all his expressive abilities expresses a truth that most congregations should know and be taught about. It has been a real challenge for many faithful pastors to survive, and their kids! would not want to become a pastor or get into ministry by seeing the struggles of their parents. Of course, the congregation may never know all theologies like the ministers, but this one truth is so vital.
Wow! Never heard anyone saying that before. Totally a new concept to me that a senior pastor would be happy with a cap to his salary. What an example to all our church leaders today! Thank you Mr Piper! We pray to God for your health and ministry. I think we need you still for many years to come. God bless you!
He takes the warning in Timothy very seriously - those who DESIRE to be rich fall into a trap... We must seek to imitate this by God's grace 🙏🏼
Best teaching on pastor's salary I have ever heard.
Let's see what Apostle Paul said about himself and the elders receiving remuneration from the Church.
Paul speaking:
Acts 20:
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring YE OUGHT TO support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
From that passage Paul is saying that he and the elders were to tend to the needs of the church and not the other way around!!!
@ but if the body is working all together in union what makes us think that an arm is more worth then the leg? They both work together for the body to function so it would be ok and fair if both arm and leg get the same portion. Colossians 4:1 Masters, supply your slaves with what is right and fair, since you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
@ Im not talking to the africans you mention but the body of Christ, to each individual takes a part as we read in james 2 it talks about the rich persons and poor persons,yes it does not talk about the function in the church but we both can agree that every person is the same in Gods eyes? We all are bought by a price no one can pay and to say that someone deserves more just because he has a different part is just that what it talks in james. If we all focus on the Gospel we would not want more money for ourselfs but spread it equally and at the end having more money is not the goal hear,now is it?
Seek the kingdom of God first and all the things God will take care of and even money and we dont have to worry about it.
Always the most wonderful slap right in the perspective. I love this man.
Having been a manager in the largest business of its kind in the US I was able to learn wisdom in wise practices. When I started pastoring later in life I quickly learned how poorly church leaders were equipped about finances. The church leaders who have more than they need should live in such a way that they live simply so others can simply live. The pastors who have more should help the pastors who have less. When I went from business my salary as a pastor drastically reduced and so did the respect I was given. Every church leader should be making disciples not just converts.
John Piper is a true brother in the Lord. Love him.
amen to that, these pastors are rare nowadays
I'm a Mormon our bishops are not paid
@@jonathangatto oh wow what an amazing argument for a cult
@@noahinson should you be paid to do the Lord's work?
Peter was never paid
@@jonathangatto Was never arguing for preachers to be paid, but I'm glad your bishops aren't paid to serve a cult. Sad that they do, though.
I wish more people would talk about things like this, thank you Piper.
My pastor worked a full time job while pastoring pretty much full time. He worked for Proctor & Gamble for years, then owned his own business. When he finally 'retired' he simply pastored full time & has refused to receive more than $45K a year for it. The elders have tried to pay him more (we feel he does quite a bit more work than $45K a year), but he has refused. He invested his own money in a 401K/IRA & is a real blessing. I find this video very inspiring.
I'm Mormon and our bishops aren't paid
@@jonathangatto you are Mormon therefore you aren't even a Christian, you are a heretic according church history, the creeds, & orthodoxy at large. So there's that.
@@jonathangatto
"I'm Mormon and our bishops aren't paid"
Not only am I not impressed by the fact of disobedience by your church, I'm of the opinion that it brings a curse on those that practice this very disobedience. For Christ said that those that withhold food, drink, clothing, shelter, and visitation from the least of His disciples that do His Father's will in heave, do it unto Him.
I came to this position after being unemployed, homeless and lacking sufficient food long enough that I became too week to hold a job when I finally found one. After I was terminated from the job, the "associate pastor" said to me; "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat". That was pretty much a death sentence at that point and 10 months later I ended up in the hospital having suffered a myocardial infarction, underwent heart surgery to drain fluid off my heart and came out disabled.
Now I see sayings such as; "You're not supposed to be trying to make money, you're supposed to just do it for Jesus" as not only a threat a against the persons life, but telling that person, they are not supposed to be trying to live because that is exactly what is being said.
There is amble instruction in the scriptures that require the paying of church leaders and when you consider that it is a commandment, those that are leaders, do not have the prerogative to not receive payment for their labor.
Deuteronomy 25:4: Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.
1Corinthians 9:9: For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Corinthians 9:13: Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14: Even so established the Lord commandment; they which preach the gospel; shall live of the gospel.
1Timothy 5:17: Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18: For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Matthew 25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
What a truth spoken, my heart is screaming amen, amen, amen! Praise God for this messenger of the gospel.
My new pastor!! Speaks the truth and keeps it real!! The bible doesn't have to be complicated to understand when you have pastors that teach sound doctrine!!!
JSHcreates just make sure u have your own local pastor
Very well put. You can tell where John Piper's heart truly is.
Preach it pastor.
God bless you sir.
this guy is on the fence! and its sad!
Hey Diana
Thank you John Piper for this clarity and balance!
You are a true man of God. I love watching you speak the truth sir. God bless you.
Pastor Piper, you are a mane after God’s heart, May He bless you abundantly with His love
Good!!!! Thanks for encouraging me to BE GENEROUS and not like the world! Love this stuff!
This is why, pastor, we will keep giving God our offerings to you. God bless you pastor ❤️ more need to have this attitude and perspective.
Tell all this foolishness to a pastor somewhere in India who is going to villages around on his bicycle and lives in simple shack....
The indians dont need pastors, they already have a more evolved, more secular and more intelligent approach to the worldsoul (christ), to god (parabrahman) and to the holy spirit (nirguna brahman). No one needs pastors because the holy worldsoul IS INSIDE YOUR HEART. This worldsoul is the bridegroom, and your individual soul is the bride. Knowing that you are both christ/vishnu AND the individual soul, how has preaching any value? Any separation between the worldsoul/redeemer and the soul, is satanism.
Preaching dualism, these fishpriests are really satans minions, living in delusion and being devoid of any love, but full of fear and stupidity.
True word of God, God bless you pastor piper
Hey
Wonderful and Biblical response from brother Piper.
Piper is gay.
kevin Mcdonald nice man
Good honest man❤️💯 I find joy listening to elders, they’re real, genuine, and they believe in the simple things in life. All they care about is honoring God, walking like Jesus, helping people, and content with just having enough❤️🙏🏻 ...it saddens me knowing that these true good people will not be here forever😢 my hope & prayer is that their values & influence will be past on to us young upcoming leaders so that our children will live the same from generation to generation in Jesus holy Name. Amen🙏🏻🙏🏼🙏🏿🙏🏽
My goodness. Thank you, Lord, for John Piper. What a gift.
Brother John Piper is a down to earth, simple man. Others need to follow this example! A common man
I love this interview and the content of this talk as well.
How does Pastor Piper know about Barnesville, Georgia? Lol. I am thankful for his ministry. I love his sweet honesty.
Missionaries deserve as much support as the pastor but their support is poor.
Missionaries have multiple churches which support them. You have to think about that. Pastors have the one church which supports them. It all works out.
Is that why only four percent go to missionaries?
Yes, it is
@@ronschueler909 you sound like someone who's had a bad experience mate. Who said 4% is what churches usually give? My church gives several times more, and im in fellowship with other churches that give even more than my own! And whats the context? 4% of 10,000,000 is 400,000 which seems pretty supportive.
Don't ever let a poor personal experience cloud your judgement and assume thats the same standard everyone follows.
I agree with you brother Ron
I wish he was my grand father :(
I just want to see this guy!
lol - just be a doer of the word (or more of a doer), and be just like him....maybe even greater! That will bless your family and grand children! 👍🏼 God loves us just as much as he loves pastor John, and can and will use us as much, or even more than him, if we love God as Pastor John does. Bless you, Mickael
😭😭
Me too
Thanks for letting me know this truth.
We are blessed
I think a well-balanced view.Money is more a sign of danger than a sign of blessing.Make as much as you can; save as much as you can; give as much as you can.Don't symbolize what you earn -- don't show off how much money you make.
haha excellent tl;dr
You know I saw a video of him with an old shirt on it seems simple but it makes me think of humility. It’s rare to see honesty and simplicity in today’s world.
Love his input and wisdom.
Wow! That's a biblical perspective which many pastors and Christians hopefully will embrace. It sounds foreign because of the influence the world has on us. Oh, may we have a balanced biblical viewpoint.
+Ronald Nepomuceno Amen.
very much respect to pastor piper.... i wish lots of these prosperity preachers we have now and days listen to this cos lots of them are even in more danger than the members.....
Such a balanced, accurate, wise and truthful response ...which is the place where the Bible will always bring you to.
LOL imagine if my pastor dad didn't get a salary. Even on his salary my mum had to eat gifts of biscuits from church members (given during special days like Christmas, New Year's etc) and leave what little money we had for groceries for us (her 2 young children and husband). Imagine if my dad went back to his secular job to support his family and effectively had less time to minister to the church members who needed him and less time to preach and evangelise. Imagine being church members that could financially support their pastor and full-time church workers but refused to because they think it 'corrupts' church leadership. Imagine being so selfish.
AMEN. reading these comments makes me so sad the people claim to be Followers but clearly disobey Gods word in this area because they believe pastors "shouldnt be paid because they dont agree with it." What a foolish thought!! Clearly have no idea what it takes to run a church, NONE! And unfortunately the people that cause all these issues are the ones who dont attend every week, dont tithe faithfully and dont read Gods work in context, only to fit their foolish agendas! Im pretty triggered if you cant tell lol.
I LOVE THIS GUY!
💥🕯💜💜
Thank you for this. I never looked at that way.
This is really good.
Everybody in the church has an *invoice* for God.
But won't hear his *voice.*
*No charge* was *his charge* to you at *calvary,* and you still want a *fee.*
PREACH!
tom blake being a preacher is a full time job, always on call. I don’t think they should be paid a large amount but it is a tough stressful job. You are responsible for dealing with around 100 families for example and the hardship that is put on your heart while dealing with tragedy in most of those families is difficult to bear.
That being said they shouldn’t be paid excessive amounts.
Great points. The church should strive to have a pastor who can live a middle class income. This way he doesn't have too much nor does he have too little for his family.
Our board used pay for school teachers in our area with similar experience and education as a baseline for the lead Pastor's salary which, at the time was woefully low. Constraining it against the actual income and responsibilities of the church we set a target salary and began working towards getting to to the desired level. This combined with a good performence evaluation and crystal clear demarcation of board/staff responsibilities has worked well for us. God is blessing us more and more as we have been dilligent in these and other areas.
Wow, my God. What a thought, this is good for leadership to think carefully about. Good stuff
Would you tell this to your denomination, Stanley?
David Pearson the discussion is already on the table for the church to remove the wide disparity among pastors. Salaries at this point is not necessarily a sign of hard work or poor work. A congregation alone at times cannot do what is needed to be able to help themselves etc much more people outside. Pentecostal churches have a way to forget the last part of Acts 2 where sharing and Christian love is exemplified. It is a very sad reality trust me.
Piper's message is a hard pill to swallow in a day when Christians are more concerned about visible signs of success and blessing. Hope the denom can turn this around and truly honour their workers.
David Pearson at this point we see the need for a shift, but we need the will and the way lead by the leadership and policy makers
I LOVE how he has an issue of conscience about saying the word Lamborghini haha
Preachers, if you are called to preach by Jesus Christ, do not expect anyone to pay you. Trust and expect your Lord to pay you. If He doesn’t pay you you are not called, go and get a job. If you receive pay from people, they control you. You will end up flatter them. Paul received offering and not salary. Preaching the gospel is not a job, but a calling. Pastoring is not a profession, but a calling, working for the Lord and not men. We need strong independent preaches who don’t fear men but God.
wow! well said Pastor Piper!
The role of a pastor is a huge responsibility, a good expositional message takes 15-18 hours to prepare, then there are other responsibilities. The challenge for a bi-vocational pastor is to have time for God, his family, work, himself and God. I have visited many churches, listened to many sermons, and realize the reason the church is in trouble is the weakness in the ability of many to really herald the word of God. Some men are truly called, others are just filling a position. Regardless, a church shouldn’t keep their pastor poor, nor should they feel obligated to buy him a jet. Like John Piper said, there is a big difference in what it costs to live in different parts of the country. My dad was a school teacher and always had to work one or more side jobs to keep our family fed, so maybe that is not the standard. You have to realize some of these men have advanced degrees and to really preach must be constantly learning. A good pastor works very hard and is on call 24 hours a day, maybe the standard for those who have made comments is to compensate a pastor the same as their medical physician if one must have a comparison.
You are very fortunate if you can find a pastor who knows how and will to do expository preaching and teaching. It seems many are too lazy to spend the needed time to do that.
Matthew 10: 7-8 "As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."
The rich women who followed Jesus gave them. All except Paul got an income. Paul had no family to support. He was single. Look at Holland where most pastors dont get paid in evangelical churches. There is no counselling, Bible school or good teaching. Aint nobody got time fo that. Family comes first.
After Christ Jesus and Paul the Apostle, I am 3rd most grateful to the Lord for giving us Pastor John Piper. He is third on my list. He is INCREDIBLY inspirational and faith affirming. Thank God for that man and the brain God gave him.
paul washer ? tim conway ? david pawson ?
lol pastors man. they are great people.
That's kind of ridiculous...Moses? Peter? John? David? The prophets? All those people rank under John Piper for you? Piper himself would be appalled at that.
Still canot believe i use to go to World Changers Church eek. Also amazing quote.
“Im not saying don’t make a lot of money, im saying don’t keep a lot of money”
The lead pastor says I chose to limit my salary at the risk of being paid less than those under me. That's a great mindset.
Somewhere I heard that a reasonable salary for a pastor is what a school teacher makes in their community. If it's a big church or otherwise more demanding, then the principal or school superintendent. I wouldn't want to be rigid about that but I think it's a good starting place.
John Piper and Norm Funk, My two favourite pastors
It’s also necessary that the pastor is lead by the Spirit.
Most of the promises of rich people did saying they will support my ministry went down the drain of love of money.
Most times people that are sincerely giving just do it and they don’t say it.
I’ve learned to trust God for my provision more than men and this made me spiritually rich while some of those rich folks are spiritually poorer although they make more money.
Not always a fan of JP's answers but I really like his response here
Thank you
I see in scripture a plurality of elders, not the moses model, and it makes sense for ministry leaders to have a job
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Church is not a company where you work as a pastor and get a salary. In my view - Paul did not take any salary, therefore, nobody should, PERIOD.
Church is a big business nowadays. In churches with a lot of members, there will be millions coming in. Even after paying utilities, there will be a lot of money left. The question is then what to make use of the money in what is a non-profit organization. What usually happens is that a lot of the money is used as salary to pay people that work in the church. While I do think pastors should be accommodated, I do have a problem with a working-age pastor being paid like a full-time employee at a big corporation. Being a pastor is not a profession.
How dare you say "In my view" when your "view" contradicts the word of God?! If you call yourself a Follower of Christ then wake up and read His word IN CONTEXT and let the Lord speak to your heart. Your feelings and opinion mean nothing if they contradict Gods word. Dont even get me started on how foolish it is to think pastors can lead congregations (especially a few hundred people or more) when theyre working 50 hours a week and need to lead a church of hundreds as a "side job." In love bro, wake up!!!
I hope you attend church regularly (EVERY WEEK) and tithe faithfully. Can't stand it when half hearted people who dont even read Gods word think their opinion has weight over the Word of God.
@@John37ful wow calm down pls and control your emotion cuz you are showing some bad attitude contradicting Christ.. You don't even know me or whether I go to Church daily or whether I study Bible daily or my education. You are contradicting your own words and very much offended by the word (maybe you are one of those who are robbing believers by taking salary). How about this - in Bible's veiw, Paul did not take any salary from the church but worked himself to pay the rent and serve those who come to visit him - he even says he did this to be an EXAMPLE and Paul also says " FOLLOW ME". it's very suspicious that you write as if you are a Christian but you are committing sin in your comment (reminded of Saduces n Pharisees plus they would have definitely supported your argument regarding taking salary). If you are a true believer/pastor, you would not rely on Churches money but simply rely on "the Lord is my provider". Praise the Lord and calm down pls.
@@badboy8526
i can tell this convo will go no where with my words, so here is scripture.
Feel free to read the entire chapter for further context. Please note that the last passage, PAUL HIMSELF says he received pay from other churches, it was only the church of Corinth he felt compelled to minister to for free. and good on him.
Im calm buddy, but you better know what you're talking about before you make big statements that are totally incorrect. Also your statement about paul saying "follow me" couldnt be more incorrect. Paul said to the church, this is what im doing, BUT im the exception to my own rule, pay your leaders.
So yes, i do know that you havent studied Gods word (at least well anyway). Thats nothing to be ashamed about, this is all said in love. Please refer to the scripture below.
1 Corinthians 9
13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.
1 Timothy 5
17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honour, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The labourer deserves his wages.”
2 corinthians 11
8 I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.
@@John37ful haha wow this bro (funny how he started calling me "buddy" after calling me bro initially) literally Googled those verses and then copied and pasted. Again u wrongly judged me. I am done out here. this is will be my last comment. Just like u I can also cherry pick verses but not gonna get down to your level. Those money he received are like free gifts from believers not salary. Say what u wanna say but the bottom line is Paul worked a day job, wrote world-changing letters did so free of charge while earning money through manual labor. And then Just like Jesus, he said " FOLLOW me". U cant Google those verses which have multiple meanings. Common sense also says that When u start giving salary there will be lots of fake workers/pastors. May GOD guide ME and you. Praise the Lord. Bye now.
Bravo! Bravo! Leave it a " spiritual patriarch" to set the record straight!😄
Great ! very biblical i found.
Happy to get wisdom
He didn't say that. He took no pay, that's how it should be. Most churches of today is not set up how they were intended to be.
Thats how it should be? I collapsed after 3 pregnancies, actually 5 in 4 years, because I had to get the money in and be the housewife. The stingy rich thought the pastor should work for free. One woman had a castle w 20 rooms. Come serve me for free this week. Bible school. Lessons the whole week. In depth counselling. Full time job. All for free. I could work to get money in amd that church only gave us debts. He refused to quit serving those rich ppl for free and I collapsed and we divorced. Paid off the debts for years. He's now on benefits. I work part time. 3 kids. Meanwhile these jerks live in their big fat houses and never paid a cent to get rid of that church debt. No wonder churches in Holland have no pastor. One woman in a church complained that they started 5 mins too late. Guy serving said: hold your horses. We're all volunteers here. Be happy there even is a church w almost no food. Bye. They're not slaves. Paul was so kind to do it, but he had no family to support.
Crystal have you read your bible? Paul DID say that...I think Piper knows what he's talking about. and for you to say Paul didnt say that without having scripture to back it is ridiculous.
How can people devote enough time to building an incredible church and meeting the needs of everyone if they're working 40/50 hours a week and having to do all the church stuff on the side?
It's biblical and anyone that doesn't understand that is either:
A. in a very small church (fair enough, you may not need paid ministers)
B. totally oblivious to the word of God and the amount of effort it takes to grow the church
C. Had a bad experience and then foolishly let a bad experience change your perspective on Gods word.
Most churches perhaps struggle to "set up" right because the people these days are so entitled to their foolish ways and false beliefs. I hope you tithe and do so faithfully... Support your church and obey your heavenly Fathers word.
@@John37ful Small church costs nothing? My ex did everything. Counselling prayer Bible school all those courses for free cause I had a job.
Paul was single. You can do that when you dont have kids to feed. No wonder there are almost no good churches in Holland. They're not nuts to work double for free. If you need food, go to youtube or America.
I think instead of having a couple people doing a lot of things, everyone should pitch in to do something. That's how we try to do it in the church I Go to.
The pastors usually lead and handle stuff that pastors handle (praying with people, preaching, etc.). Most men in our church will be asked to preach at some point so it's not only the pastor preaching. Our youth and other adults will help with cooking, teaching kids, setting up and cleaning up, leading programs (eg. Christmas), etc. Most families will also pitch in monthly for the rent/building costs and other fees. All in all, it helps so that nobody has to be burdened with too much.
@@agentmikster44 Yes but someone has to set that up and first train all these people. My ex tried this and yes they preach now in other churches and it's all for free, but we paid the price and almost noone is so crazy to do that. I can't find a church here. In an 'everyone has something' meeting noone has anything. Most churches here have no pastor, not others who preach good. Nothing. No food in the house cause everyone only cares about their own house. One big rich church in this city. Not going there either. Money grabbers and false teachers. They're popular. Pay your tithes to the rich to get a preaching on how to be successful. No thanks.
I dont know if it’s correct in the context.
But when i was reading Book of Numbers it says…
“Then the Lord spoke to Aaron, “Behold, I have given you charge of the contributions made to me, all the consecrated things of the people of Israel. I have given them to you as a portion and to your sons as a perpetual due. This shall be yours of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every offering of theirs, every grain offering of theirs and every sin offering of theirs and every guilt offering of theirs, which they render to me, shall be most holy to you and to your sons. In a most holy place shall you eat it. Every male may eat it; it is holy to you. This also is yours: the contribution of their gift, all the wave offerings of the people of Israel. I have given them to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it. All the best of the oil and all the best of the wine and of the grain, the firstfruits of what they give to the Lord, I give to you. The first ripe fruits of all that is in their land, which they bring to the Lord, shall be yours. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it. Every devoted thing in Israel shall be yours. Everything that opens the womb of all flesh, whether man or beast, which they offer to the Lord, shall be yours. Nevertheless, the firstborn of man you shall redeem, and the firstborn of unclean animals you shall redeem. And their redemption price (at a month old you shall redeem them) you shall fix at five shekels in silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs. All the holy contributions that the people of Israel present to the Lord I give to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due. It is a covenant of salt forever before the Lord for you and for your offspring with you.” And the Lord said to Aaron, “You shall have no inheritance in their land, neither shall you have any portion among them. I am your portion and your inheritance among the people of Israel.”
Numbers 18:8-16, 19-20 ESV
The gifts offered to God, God gives to the Priests as their portion.
The portion to be given to the Pastors depends on the church but Pastor’s should have a salary/portion provided by the Lord for His works to continue to advance.
There are people God called to be full time ministers/Pastors especially in the third world countries who ae poor and some uneducated but so rich in Faith and really sold themselves out to Jesus and the gospel. Pastor’s should have salary or portion of provision from the Lord❤️😢🙏.
We had a friend who was a pastor who would take his salary and buy food for the poor, he only keep enough to live on ,well they had him committed and said he was crazy.
Piper's heart and mind are on more important things.
I had no desire for anyone’s silver or gold or [expensive] clothes. You know personally that these hands ministered to my own needs [working in manual labor] and to [those of] the people who were with me. In everything I showed you [by example] that by working hard in this way you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed [and brings greater joy] to give than to receive.’ ”
Acts 20:33-35 AMP
the fact that we have people talking about staff, salaries and lead staff members etc... shows how far the CHURCH has separated from GOD! the Church is secular in many respects. I believe God is judging the secular houses from the family's who are building according the heart of God! this is where sons are trained and equipped for the works of ministry and the fathers are honored!
Gods word is free
Wow wise words!
I go to a church that take tithes and offerings but there is no pressure to give! All the money goes to ministry to run the church!
Paul was a example to us.
Let's see what Apostle Paul said about himself and the elders receiving remuneration from the Church.
Paul speaking:
Acts 20:
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring YE OUGHT TO support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
From that passage Paul is saying that he and the elders were to tend to the needs of the church and not the other way around!!!
And are the elders also called to receive no or minimal pay from the church? are the wise elders who help the needs of the church supposed to be homeless and living week to week? Don't be so quick to grab a piece of scripture out of context to fit your message. You've totally missed the point of what Piper has said. The church leaders need to be able to support themselves. Not loaded, but supported. How can they meet the needs of others if they cant meet the needs of themselves. I pray God gives you a revelation of this.
That makes sense!
It is nice to see Pastor Piper came to Vancouver. Is he going to preach at Westside Church this Sunday?
When a pastor salary is dictated by a system, the system can control what the pastor can and cannot say( preach ). Yes I believe a pastor and staff should be compensated for their labor as long as the pastor and the people want the in adulterated word of God, which is very slim today.
Many pastors take a healthy salary from their church, and while they are supposed to be working in their church for that salary, they are busy writing books or getting with ghost writes, usually getting with ghost writers working with them to get something written so they can sell it. Then they go out and speak at other churches, getting paid for going there to speak, collecting whatever collection comes in too while they are there, and the whole time there is a table set up out in the lobby with their books and tapes of sermons they have given in their own church and the preacher is selling all of that material. There is a wad of money to be had in the preacher business.
eugene bell Many pastors I know don't make enough and are barely scraping by. Ministers I know are working their tales off, working sometimes double what some of their church members work, yet a few leaders within the church (who make six figures or who make more retired than the minister does who has 3 young kids at home) want to give my ministry friends barely enough to live on. Here's a question I have: For those that work in secular jobs on the pew, why is it "answered prayer" or "God's blessing" when they get a raise, yet when the minister asks for a raise (& he hasn't had one in 5 years), they call him "Greedy" or "too focused on money"?
Wasn't Piper speaking about a middle class income? I see this as a good way for a church to deal with finances. Don't let your pastor be poor or rich. He can be right in the middle.
Very good ,agree 100 percent,pasters should be paid reasonably good,but not too good.If they can use wisely what they make ,invest and save and become reasonably well to do .Good for them as long as they remember to give to God also.thanks
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John Piper quotes Wesley?! Finally gives an arminian some cred
TRUTH!!
It sad,,, i don't name names, i like the way they preach but as i keep digging about World's most sincere Pastors , the one that showed up on my search is World's most richest and powerful Pastor,, with billions and millions of dollars and luxury way of living.😕
Pastor Frederick Price Sr
And this Pastor are the man. I salute you Sir for serving the Lord wholeheartedly,,,Jesus is the son of God , King of Kings but during his days in this earth Jesus never ever had any sort of luxury living like what most of million dollars preacher nowadays.
There are billions of people around the globe that need to be save,,, need for food, clothings,,, how much these million dollars Pastor's tithe for the Lord our God? Oh,God have mercy.
I think of BH Clendennen saying "no pastor should live better than his congregation. When i pioneer a church it'll be in the bylaws that no pastor can ever make more than 5% more than the median income of the congregation. Also tithing shall never be a necessity in the church
John Piper is a good man of God. I have a question for him: How close are we to fall from Holy Spirit gifts and knowledge when we make our studies and theologies?
the Bible also says: "The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender." or "Wealth brings many new friends, but a poor man is deserted by his friend." or "A good man leaves an inheritance to his grandchildren, but the sinner's wealth is stored up for the righteous."
And so yes I agree with John overall about not being "bound" by the love of money. Neither does God want us to be sick and poor.
2:47 even _I_ felt that spit...
A teacher works for pay. He does not seek the good of the students primarily, but his own gain. The gain we expect may not be money, but honour. Do we want to be respected and recognised as servants of God by others? Then we are seeking a salary - of honour - from them. Then we are teachers, not fathers.
Fathers expect nothing in return for all that they do for their children. Paul did not expect respect or even submission from others. He only sought their spiritual growth. What about us? Do we seek the good of the brothers and sisters in everything that we do?
The 'pastor-system' that we find in Christendom today was unheard of in the days of the apostles. It is this unScriptural system that has given rise to numerous teachers in Christendom - teachers who have to be paid a salary each month for the classes they take, and who make their students dependent on them for every major decision in life - whether it be marriage or employment or whatever.
The brothers and sisters in such churches never grow up. They remain spiritual babes forever, because this human system robs them of a direct connection with Christ their Head - which is their birthright under the new covenant.
How does a father care for his children? In a poor home, the father and mother will not even eat, if there is not enough food for the children. They will gladly deny themselves, and they will not even let their children know that they have not eaten, lest the children feel bad about it. A father hides his self denial from his children. Do we have such a spirit - that denies itself for the good of the brothers and sisters, and will not even let them know about it.
Another characteristic of a father is that he is eager to see his children advance beyond him in life - in education and in every other way. There are many fathers who have never studied beyond high school, who sacrifice so much to give a college-education to their children. They are happy to deny themselves the comforts of life for this purpose and they are delighted when their children graduate. No father is ever jealous to see his son advance beyond his status or his educational level in life.
That is how a true servant of God will be too. He will be delighted when younger brothers are wholehearted and get revelation from the Scriptures and are used by the Lord to be a blessing to others. He will sincerely long that they should advance beyond him spiritually, and be more useful in the Lord's hands than he has ever been.
When we see younger brothers growing up in the church, without any folly being manifested in their lives, because of good leadership that protects them, we should rejoice that they can have such a blessing as we never had when we were young. There will not be even a shade of jealousy in us, if we are fathers. On the contrary, we will be delighted. We will rejoice that it is going well with them.
If we are jealous of a younger brother's ministry or influence or spiritual advancement, we are certainly teachers, and not fathers. In a school, if a student can solve a problem that his teacher cannot solve, the teacher will be so angry and jealous, that he will seek to humiliate that student ever after in some way or the other. How do we feel as servants of God when someone points out a mistake in us?
Teachers can only build Babylon. Only fathers can build the true church - the New Jerusalem. We may understand and proclaim all the truths of the new covenant, and yet if we do this with the spirit of a teacher we will still build Babylon.
A teacher is very conscious of all the labour that he has invested in his students. He thinks of the honour he will receive if his students do well. He is always thinking of what he will gain, even when his students do well. A father however is quite different. He desires only the welfare of his children. He desires nothing for himself.
A teacher will criticise his students. A father however will encourage his children. If we keep on criticizing the brothers and sisters, we will accomplish little, even if everything we say is true. A father will accomplish much more by encouraging his children.
Only a father can continue to be kind to ungrateful and evil children. A teacher will give up on ungrateful students very quickly.
When we have problems with difficult brothers in the assembly, if we hope that they will leave the assembly, even if they destroy themselves, then it should be clear to us that our spirit is that of a teacher. A father can never wish that for any of his children.
Jesus told us to be merciful even as our heavenly Father is merciful and kind to ungrateful and evil people (Luke 6:35, 36).
As we pursue righteousness, we can very easily degenerate into Pharisees and teachers, if we don't seek to be constantly and endlessly merciful.
My question is about housing allowance and soc sec taxing. I heard that you could pay your pastor a housing allowance that is reasonable as a retirement income and that it would not be subject to soc. sec. taxes. Is this true? Thank you
D & K Grace Pastors are able to take a housing allowance that is exempt from Fed taxes. This is heavily regulated and must be done carefully. This is separate from social security taxes. Pastors at the beginning of their carriers have an option to exempt themselves from social security (no deposit, no withdrawal). This also is heavily regulated and must be done cautiously. Pastors are also responsible for self-employment taxes. All of this should be run by your CPA before action.
It’s not lost on me that brother Creflo was mentioned and brother Copeland and brother Duplantis were not. But I digress. This is still the truth. Greed has made a mighty move to the forefront of our culture Anna politics and unfortunately, it did not miss the church. The prosperity gospel went from changing our mentality from a poverty mindset to one of greed and never having enough. The pandemic revealed it all - people hoarded toilet paper and other items with no regard to those who would have to go without because of their greed.
It's good that the poverty gospel was changed but some went to far.the other way.
My Church has maybe 15 folks in it there's no way we could pay a Preacher we do take up an offering for them on Sunday.
Pastors with salary’s are called Hirelings...
Amen, brother.
Hey
AMEN!!!
I didn't hear him quote one Bible verse though...
PERFECT
hey
Why does Paul call for the Elders, plural of the Church, singular to meet him at Miletus, in Acts chapter 20v17-38, and state that the Holy Spirit had made them overseers or Bishops, to spiritually feed the Church of God, singular, and in v33, he said that while he was with them for three years, in v31, and that he did not covet their silver or gold, but worked with his own hands, not only to support himself , but also his fellow servants, so Paul did not take money from the Corinthian Church, or the Ephesian Church, but he did take money that Gentile Churches gave to him to give to the poor Christians at Jerusalem, and when he did, the whole Church received Paul and Barnabas at Jerusalem, and they met with the Apostles and the Elders to discuss the question of circumcision for Gentile Christian, in Acts chapter 15 , In the whole of the New Testament there is not a single verse to support the idea of a pastor of a Church.
The church should own the house and pay the utilities for the pastor and give them a 50k or so salary, depends on the location but the pastor and his family would be decently taken care of... Just my . 02