Ramblings - 7A vs 3B vs AAN - What's the difference?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Video about the differences between the different Audi 5 Cylinder 20 valve turbo engines. Motors from Audi Coupe quattro, Audi 200, Audi URS4 URS6 (S4, S6) Mostly US Spec, with some chat about ABY (S20 ADU (RS2) Motors
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Awesome video, thanks for taking the time to do this!
Thanks a lot for a great video! Always was wondering on the differences...
Finally ! I've been looking for a video like this for months ... Thanks man 👍
Bravo Dave... watching your video when I should be working. Guess that's the good/bad of working from home. :)
Gut erklärt, die stegbrüche sind bekannt. Gilt schon fast als normal.
Nice job. Learned some new stuff.
Amazing explanations and knowledge. I'm working on my 95 urs6 avant and I'm still in love with the car.
Out of this world video! Thank you very much for your incredible knowledge about these older models!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed
Hey man great content really enjoying your videos. It's tough to find info on these cars and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Was looking for a project car and kind of fell into a 1990 Audi CQ. Spent the last year getting it running. Getting a lot of ideas from your videos.
Glad to hear it! They are rewarding cars to work on and modify!
Very cool! A lot of great info!
Great video. Thanks.
Brilliant, clear, concise video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍
I have an early spec 90 20v (7A) here in the UK (bag of snakes, Hitachi ISV & 2 pin ECU). Love the car - had it over 20 years now!
Did a later spec 7A also exist in the US with the cast exhaust manifold, Bosch ISV & 4 pin ECU?
In Europe from about March 1990, Audi replaced the beautiful tubular exhaust manifold for a cast one and claimed the same power output (170hp), stating the revised ECU made up for any power loss. Never quite believed that! Makes me wonder what they actually did with the later ECU to make up the difference... If the ECU could be tweaked that easily, why didn't they do that first of all? Could the early 7A have power in reserve waiting to be unlocked...? Lots of rhetorical questions - perhaps we'll never know!
Keep up the great work flying the classic Audi flag! ☺️
Great video with up to date info and clear video quality explaining the interchangeability of the parts. Because I have a 1986 Audi Coupe GT Commemorative Edition with the digital instrument cluster (2.2L), I also have a 1993 UrS4 with the AAN 20v turbo engine and three 90 Coupe Quattros with the 3B 20v turbo engines. I really want to place the AAN engine in my Coupe GT ( I know it's going to be a pain since I will have to deal with fitment issues like radiator & intake manifold). and with the UrS4 I want to place a 3B engine in there and sell the UrS4. Your video perfectly explained how I can place a 3B head with intake manifold to fit the AAN engine on a smaller chassis, which is giving me more of a green light for the swap. If I can't get my hands on a UrQuattro, then I might as well convert my Coupe GT to the S1 right off the bat. Unless I get lucky and find a 200 avant with the AAN engine thus saving me from butchering the UrS4 for it's engine. In the end I my UrS4 runs and drives as well as 1 CQ supposedly runs and drives, while the other CQ has half of the engine accessories removed, while my 3rd CQ has no engine at the moment. One of my CQ in red color might be sold for scrap or as a shell since that's the only car I have with serve rust damage, I plan to remove the fully intact engine and drop the 3B into my Yellow CQ with a full on S2 conversion. As with the 3rd CQ black color, the trunks of all the cars came with all the parts needed to rebuild that 3A as well as I have a Diesel K27 Turbo 5 cylinder engine (from a 1987 I believe the year is correct) top which I'll source out parts from it. Any advice about all of this and interchangeability of the diesel parts towards the gas powered engines. I also live in South Florida. Thank you and sorry for the long message lol
😂 man you sound like me thinking about all the Audis I have and how to swap and sell. I have a Coupe GT roller that I got for $100. I found the entire dash in the trunk minus the digital instrument cluster which I want to put in my Sport replica along with my MM commemorative seats that are shredded
Very informative. NY
Great video, I've a 20v b3 coupe quattro here in Ireland with the 7a engine and although it's a good bit weaker than the turbo I love it. Any tips for getting extra power from the 7 while keeping it NA such as on the intake side, MAF sensor or cams
Only things ive seen done to make considerably more power is stand alone and custom tuning, or individual throttle bodies
This was an awesome video, definitely have a lot more knowledge to do my research on! I've been struggling to find good info/writeup's on these engines. Here's a question you may or may not know the answer to, do you know if there are similarities between the underbodies of the B2 and B3? I'm looking into doing a Quattro swap on my Coupe GT, I know the Audi 4000Q is a good candidate but I have the opportunity to buy a very beat up (but still running) B3 Quattro for very cheap haha. Also what forum should I join for other 5 banger Audi related questions?
The project pad or s2forum are the only semi active forums for these, quattroworld is too, but not as good for these types of research. The coupe gt front end is mostly the same as the 4000 and b3, however it lacks a tunnel for a driveshaft to the rear and has a completely different floor plan. It is NOT a simple swap by any stretch of the imagination, it requires extreme fabrication, many have attempted, i cant think of any that have completed it, i know of a few latvian ones that i think might have started as a fwd model, but nothing that sticks out.
@@BrokenQuattros Oh I know its not a simple endeavor but when is anything great simple? Haha, thanks for the pointers man I'll go check those sites out!
All three have forged rods, 3B & AAN have different water manifolds... 7A is pretty much a 5cyl version of the VW 16V, also the 7A intake has very long runners to help with low and midrange torque, even so, it's still weak on the bottom end and I believe the torque peak is @ 4000 rpm.
ua-cam.com/video/YVvTHzMFd28/v-deo.html Yup, same rods. and water manifold explanation: ua-cam.com/video/YVvTHzMFd28/v-deo.html
None of them has forged rods.
@@shone190 they are the same rods that are found in the 16v aba motor, they are forged, but not able to stand the same amount of power as an aftermarket h beam
Good info and comparison! Question, whats the part number on that euro side oil pan?(with that cool return provision) Thanks!
034103627D
O shit a fellow long island! Im looking to get into older audis if u wanna meet up one day lmk!
Very well explained. Ive been looking at aan swapping my coupe quattro. Just wondering if keeping the serpentine belt is easy to do? I prefer the serpentine set up but am not sure how it works space wise and with power steering pump pressures.
Serp belt is an easier setup, but with your coupe its much easier to keep the 7a balancer and all the 7a accessories, you wont have to change any of them if you run a 3b/aby intake setup
I was thinking of just having a friend of mine reeled the throttle flange further to the front of the intake to clear the radiator. Do you know if the rack and the aan steering pump will work together? I already converted the coupe to vaccume brakes so all it has to do is run the steering.
Re weld the throttle flange *
Where do you buy your motors though? I've been looking for an aan for a little while now and I can't find one that looks in decent condition
Can be a tricky task. I watch for wreaked cars, and watch my local junkyards for them, ive had good success.
i got 7a engine i planning to put this engine on audi a4 b6 but i told i can use the abk ecu from audi 80 b4 to run this motor the ecu controls all injectors by one wire so i can add one injector wiring and the best simple thing there is no crank sensor for this ecu its only hall sensor on the distributor so what you think i am doing this cuz i love 5 cylinder sound and i love the a4 b6 how its looks and style
I have seen 5 cyl swaps into b5 and b6 chassis, but you run into radiator problems, the engine is longer than v6 and i4 motors so space becomes a concern. Having never done the swap i dont have a lot of input
You said if your looking at bigger power (500+) use the 7a, is that because the block and head is stronger Than the aan… reason I ask is because I have a 1990 coupe Quattro with the 7a engine that runs sweet and was debating just getting rid to buy an already turbo’d AAN.. had no idea the 7a was so strong…
Thanks for the video, learnt a lot
From England, West Midlands
Thanks
Let’s back up. The head is not stronger, they are the same castings. But because it’s naturally aspirated, they usually are in better condition and don’t have the cracks from heat cycles, compared to turbo versions. I thought I said if you are looking for 600+whp because that’s where you will lose stock aan pistons. So if you are going for more power than that, you will need pistons and rods. Which is why you should just build the 7a at that point.
I have a C4 S6. I looked on Ebay for RS2 Exhaust manifolds and there are several aftermarket ones. Is there any manufacturer that you would suggest over an other ? AND are these even the same kind of design as the original RS2 ? thanks
I like the wagner rs2 evo, its an upgrade from the rs2
Hey bud, I came across your video while watching group B content. I am looking for a engine harness and ecu for a 3b. Let me know if you can help. Thanks and keep up the great vids!
Im actually going to part a 200 20v next weekend...
@@BrokenQuattros hey...I was away for a little bit. Hope all is well. Were you able to part out the 200? I'm interested in the harness and ecu please.
@@BrokenQuattros Hey bud, just touching base to see if you were able to part out the 200? How do I message outside of youtube?
@@nicholasmoonasar1844 brokenquattros@gmail.com
Can you elaborate regarding the oil pan for the AAN. I was considering a conversion in my URQ
The aan oil pan is not made to accommodate a side mounted radiator. The oil pan will occupy the space where the bottom of the radiator should sit if you are putting it in the OEM location. The 7a/3b oil pan is offset and has additional capacity pushed to the other side of the pan allowing for space for a side mounted radiator.
Where are you located man? And do you do work for people? (For money obviously). I need some help and parts for my 90 coupe s2 clone project.
Im in Utah. I dont really take side jobs, i dont have enough time for my own projects! This is just a hobby. I work a regular 40 hour work week
I know this is a very old video, But if I have my 3b engine can I use a AAN block. Are the bolt holes there to attach the P/S pump bracket and the Alternator? assuming I have all my parts off the 3b it should be able to plop in the 200 correct?
Yes. AAN block to 3B accessories is fine. there are some extra mount holes that the AAN has, that the 3b does not. so you're good
@@BrokenQuattros Awesome!!!!thank you for the fast reply. I was thinking about this today and was second guessing myself. The AAN has a oil windage tray girdle as well correct little bit more strength? I'm about to get my Lago 200 20qvt back up and going
Any way to get a vid on the ABY/ADU engines and their differences advantages/disadvantages? I would imagine you have them in your shed haha
Pretty sure I discussed it and talked about the manifold differences in this video
@@BrokenQuattros Yes you did- I was wondering about some of the other ancillaries that are different. Also on you CQ build is there a reason you are not using a BST style reverse intake? You probably know we're I'm going with this- I prefer to use the same AAN base engine in both an S chassis and Sport quattro replica. I've read various forums so I'm reasonably informed just thought you might have some insight on going with the AAN platform and having flexibility to fit into different chassis- Cheers
@@jdmimportlogistics nothing wrong with the BST manifold, you gotta use what you can find and what’s available, I like to use OEM parts to cut down on fabrication needs, custom intakes can require custom plumbing and custom work to make it all fit, nothing wrong with that if you have the tools at your disposal
Hi Dave I'm coming to the last stages of turboing my audi 90Q 7A motor and I'm having problems 😅 I was going to use the 7A intake but have decided against it for space reasons so I bought a AAN intake manifold and the water manifold too, now here comes the problem it has hydraulic servo on it wich means to powersteeing pump is lager and leaves me with no space for water outlet/ manifold any oem parts to get around this problem? Cheers love the vids👌🏻
This is one of the big issues of mix and match. For oem options, an aby or 3b intake manifold with 3b or aby water manifold will work. The problem with the aan stuff is its made for a front mount radiator. Your side mount radiator will hit the aan intake manifold. So you can switch to 3b intake/water manifolds, or you can convert to a front mount radiator (custom fsns and stuff will be needed). If youre trying to move your power steering pump you can convert it to an electric pump from like a second gen mr2, lots of different ways to approach the problem, oe solutions are the easist but not always the easiest to source and buy
@@BrokenQuattros OK food for thought👍🏻, trying to source 3b or aby parts here in Europe is super expensive did look at those intakes and they're up in the 600 to 1300 ££ pounds region for those, I was thinking of modifying the intake by moving the TB to the front of intake and using the 7A TB as again sourcing the parts needed is not easy. Would a 3B water manifold fit with a AAN intake?
@@audihughes3999 yes the 3b watermanifold should fit with the aan intake, if youre moving the throttle body on the aan that works too. If you have fabrication at your disposal, many people also modify their aan water manifold to have the outlet in the middle
@@BrokenQuattros ah OK even better yeah i can fabricate, i just didnt know if it would work and if there was parts to save time, but now I know what can be done happy days 😊 thanks alot for your responses much appreciated keep up the good vids of these old audis.✌🏻 peace out from uk🇬🇧
hey mate, i also have a 90q with a 7a motor and am looking to turbo charge it. just wondering how difficult the process was, did you do it yourself, did you have to do any piston work, how much power is it currently making? any help would be appreciated. CHEERS
i am turboing my 7a and one of the main problems i think i will have is water feed to the turbo i was wondering what ideas you have?
Easiest way is the factory way, remove a freeze plug from the block and add in the nipple style fitting, 035103111b, still available from the dealer. Then you have your feed!
could i swap an aluminum radiator into a C3 avant with a 3B and swap the intake manifold from an AAN onto the 3B? or would it not fit
Wouldnt probably fit unless the aluminum radiator is super small or oddly shapped. Many people will cut an aan manifold and move the throttle body further down the plenum and reweld it
Great video!! Can you provide contact information? 7A turbo built in progress.
Should be under the profile, but brokenquattros@gmail.com works
Do you know if a mc2 oil housing will bolt up to a 7a?
It should, casting is the same
@@BrokenQuattros awesome! Thanks for the reply!
Have you used your 3B or AAN engine?Considering selling or no
No plans on selling, sorry
I have a 7a and I want to turbo it what’s the cheapest way to do it
Well, assuming you want less than 500awhp, cheapest is gunna have to do with your skill set. 034 does sell a 7a turbo kit which is probably cheapest if you dont have experience or skills to build. But a donor car is usually the cheapest route. So a 200 20v, urs4, or urs6 as a donor car assuming you can find one for 2k or less and you can do some minor fab and swapping and some wiring stuff thats going to be the cheapest.
AAN is the one to buy then :D
If you are in the USA it is the easiest to find for sure, which normally means its the cheapest to buy
@@BrokenQuattros and if you're in Europe, is aby the better one of all of them?
@@lhmllr assuming you are trying to put it in a small chassis car, the aby will be easier to swal
@@lhmllr the aby and aan long blocks are the same. The only differences are in the manifolds and misc parts that are bolted onto it.
I had to recycle a snake manifold because I had not known anyone that had a 5 cylinder na 😔
Hi I have a Audi 200 2.1 turbo Quattro 184 hp. Would it be possible to swap a AAN engine in my 200 Quattro?
What is more rare
That’s kinda relative. In the USA the 3b is probably the most rare since it was in 1 model for 1 year. But that motor is in more cars internationally (Audi s2, and the rr Urq which is basically the same setup). AAN is probably the highest production in the USA and world. But also the most desirable
So basically the aan belt wont work on the 7a block because its missing a bolt hole.... Can it still be drilled on the 7a? Or is the block casting totally different that it won't accommodate the ribbed belt setup bracket?
Block is missing the place where to drill and tap. I think it would probably still work without the one bolt.
@@hybrid_hatch9497 I'm currently trying to get an ur s4 c4... The original AAN is missing the head. Would the 7A head work out fine? How would I get a hall sender kit here in south Africa?