@@b213videoz If you mean university degrees, Theresa's PhD was 1990 from McGill/Montreal. James's three degrees were 1959-1961 from U. Mich./Ann Arbor (though none was a PhD).
Not the same GROUP, but we did retain the moniker Bible Student amongst us. Not as a title of distinction, but just what we do. We study the Bible, so it's appropriate that we're Students of the Bible. It's definitely a fascinating history. I myself have just recently been learning so much about the past and I really do enjoy understanding all of it.
@philodendron Bible students started under Charles Taze Russell. Then changed to Jehovah's Witnesses, I believe, under Judge Rutherford and continues on today. Rutherford, Knorr et al continued on with the name Jehovah's Witnesses who are a corrupted Bible Students Association.
Not the same group, however they are our cousins spiritually speaking . I firmly believe God has a plan for WT and Jehovah Witnesses. Recent changes made by WT seem to point to a return to some of the earlier shared theological perspectives. Interesting times we live in .
Thank you, I appreciated this very accurate exposition of the bible student movement. There is one thing I think should be added: Bible student doctrine provides a wonderful answer to the question of the permission of evil. Adam and Eve had no experience with evil when they chose to sin. They had no idea of the terrible consequences of disobedience and separation from God, the suffering and death. Their progeny would have to experience all that suffering as a result of being born into sin. In so doing, they all would gain the experience that Adam and Eve did not have. Christ provided a ransom payment for the sin of Adam (the death of a perfect man to pay the price of the sin by a perfect man), and consequently all of Adam's descendants are entitled to another life, but next time under ideal conditions of a restored earth and a knowledge of God. The likelihood is that they will choose to obey God at that time, having seen the negative effects of sin.
And if they don’t have 1st John 5:7, and if they believe that Christian translators even as a whole are ever learning and never able to come to knowledge of the truth.
@@toferg.8264 Mormons have 1 John 5.7 in their Bible (since they're essentially King James Onlyists), and they're heretics as well: they take the oneness of the three Divine Persons to mean oneness in purpose between three celestial beings. It's the same thing with many Oneness Pentecostals, who teach the heresy of modalism: they reject the idea that the One God has three distinct hypostases, instead seeing the Father, Son, and Spirit as three modes or roles performed by a single-personed God. A disputed verse--one that was questioned not only by the original compiler of the Textus Receptus but by most of the English versions of the 1530s--is neither the guardian of trinitarian orthodoxy nor an assurance that the user will embrace true trinitarianism over heresies.
I used to think that Bible Students was just another name for Jehovah's Witnesses. It's great to know that they are okay with blood transfusions. Thank you for the info!
I'm a Bible Student, who is a former Jehovah's Witness. You did good to capture the essence of the Bible Students. Too often people get us confused with the JW's. Thank you!
Are you associated with any of our ecclesias? I am with the New Haven, CT ecclesia. Your video about our people coming out of the Jehovah's Witnesses is right on target. Now if only those in the JW group would come out and seek the truth.
@@cinmason51 Yes, Sr. Cindy, I have many fond memories attending and fellowshipping with the New Haven brethren. I have since relocated to the MidWest and haven't had much fellowship with the East Coast brethren.
I am not necessarily leaving the Jehovahs witnesses, I will continue to associate them but I want to expand my learnings and knowledge associating with other Unitarian based organizations/groups
Well documented and accurate. Thanks for including the websites where your research comes from. I thought I knew a fair amount about Bible Students, but there were a couple of sites I hadn't seen before. I watched a couple of your videos and appreciate your accuracy and sincerity in presenting beliefs which are not your own. This video makes me want to be a student in your classroom and to learn more about history and beliefs of the various religions. I plan to watch the rest of your videos and learn from this academic standpoint. I've shared your video and your channel with friends and family.
Thank you so much for finnally making a video on the origin of the jehovahs witnessess. Or rather the group they were before, i find them so facinating and hearing you talk about them in your standard non-biased way is just so awesome
It is his standard non-biased way. In fact the only time I recall him ever deviating from that tone was when he described the Jehovah's as witnesses themselves. He just had trouble hiding his well placed contempt in that case.
They shun all who voluntarily leave, destroying lives, families, hopes and dreams. They are run by 9 men called the governing body who are worshipped and called their kings. Please do not ascribe too much fascination to this cult.
Feels like being a "Bible Student" and testing all scriptures, truth and keep your faith, works and Character, also to be accountable for oneself for their actions and choices in life. Feels like people give more emphasis on being denominational oriented and condemning other denominations as being false or hearsay. If you Love others like Jesus commanded, we will have tolerance to differences in opinion and keep what's useful for your faith to grow in Christ as his disciples. Thank you for the Non bias videos, it's something to learn always to know about what it means to Be a Christan looking at so many differences within Religon.
@@woobiefuntime, Not any of the Christian denomination has 100% complete, Most of them know in parts and emphasize/follow in part, Some more right than the other in certain aspects. Where do you stand in this statement?
Glad he has gotten to the other Bible Students. I have studied them deeply and found the movement interesting. Now if only he can do the other Mormon sects other than the mainstream LDS church. Keep up the good work.
@@margaretschwartzentruber3154 I understand. It’s not hard. God had a plan for everyone. Everyone that has ever lived. Just right now he is calling the Bride for His Son. After the Bride is complete then they and Jesus will be used to restore everyone that has ever existed back to the perfection that was lost in Adam. Satan will be locked away during this millennium. After they are perfect as Adam was Satan will be allowed to test the world apart from being sinful. If they sin they go into the second death. The rest will live on the earth forever.
I live about 200 feet from the placard that commemorates Russel and the bible students meeting place here in the Northside Pittsburgh. While I was never religious myself, my ex wife is a 6th gen JW - her great great grandfather was of the anointed this placing him as a JW in the 1920s at the birth of the religion here.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth (probably not actually on Dec 25), good Friday is the remembrance of Christ's crucifixion on the cross (not a torture stake), and Easter is the recognition and celebration of Christ resurrection (not re creation). If you want to talk about biblical accuracy concerning the NWT, I suppose we can. Would you like to start with Jesus (according to the Watchtower) being Michael the Archangel, Appolyon and Abandon? Or about Jesus (according to the Watchtower) being a created being? Or that (according to the Watchtower) the Holy Spirit is an impersonal "active force"?
Which church are true according to the Bible in this world? Because many churches are not true according to this scriptures, Matthew 7:21-23,Roman's 10;1-3,2Corintians 11:12-15,2thimoty 4:3-4,2Peter 2:1-3, and what is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible?????
Happy Easter! Another great video. Have you ever thought of doing something on the Community of Christ or the New Apostolic Church? Two really interesting denominations in my opinion
I knew two New apostolic church adherents. They have strange teachings and for some reason they are quite big here in germany. There are more New apostolic church members in Germany than there are evangelicals (though mainline protestants exeeed both by magnitudes). They have realy strange teachings and I think it is time that Ready for Harvest covers them. Fun fact: The New apostolic church has predecessor and splinter groups that are even stranger like that one group that believes that there are no more valid priests around so they hold services without sacraments and read from the sermons the last valid priests gave (over 100 years ago). They are in northern germany. They are like the sedevacantists of the New apostolic church.
I was born and raised in this cult. I turn 18 and dipped out. Luckily I was able to talk my family out of it. Converted to Greek Catholic last fall and now im a Catechumen.
Nice job. I've studied this for way too many hours and you did a great job. The funny thing about the Bible Students that quit Watchtower is that for decades they were talked about as demonic, haughty and working for Satan as the "evil slave class" as opposed to the "faithful and discreet slave class" which were Watchtower adherents. Some time in the last 20 years or so Watchtower finally ditched that perjorative moniker and have pretty much left Bible Students alone, though they still hold Charles Russell in high regard.
I’m in a position that I won’t join any membership in one church but multiple I’m in between the witnesses, Bible students, Unitarians and iglesia ni cristo
Rowan Williams , once Archbishop of the Church of England , who studied Arius, had the following to say about him : "Arius' views have always been "represented as … some hopelessly defective form of belief." Contrary to this view, Rowan Williams recently concluded that Arius is "a thinker and exegete of resourcefulness, sharpness and originality." Although his character has been severely assailed by his opponents, Arius appears to have been a man of personal ascetic achievement, pure morals, and decided convictions. "He was very tall in stature, with downcast countenance … always garbed in a short cloak and sleeveless tunic; he spoke gently, and people found him persuasive and flattering." It is traditional to claim that Arius was a deliberate radical, breaking away from the 'orthodoxy' of the church fathers. However: "A great deal of recent work seeking to understand Arian spirituality has, not surprisingly, helped to demolish the notion of Arius and his supporters as deliberate radicals, attacking a time-honoured tradition." "Arius was a committed theological conservative; more specifically, a conservative Alexandrian." (Wikipedia)
@@MichaelTheophilus906 Not true! The Bible says of Jesus "in him was the fullness of almighty God," & "there arexthree who bearxwitness in heaven--the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit AND THESE THREE ARE ONE." Jesus said "I & the Father are One" & "he who has seen me has seen the Father" and "before Abraham was, I AM." If you are goingvto be Arius, prepare to meet a Nicholas!
I'd really like a video about the "Friends of man" denomination which was founded by Alexander Freytag. It also belongs to the Bible student movement and it claims 70.000 adherents so it should be the second biggest denomination in the movement (after Jehovah's Witnesses).
@@barbsaw7002 Our position is that Christ invisibly returned in 1874 to do what he promised starting with the gathering of the elect, and continuing with the gradual breaking apart of the kingdoms of this world starting with the fall of the great monarchs of Europe in 1914, as predicted by Russell, then the End of Gentile Times (Luke 21:24) which resulted in the regathering of the Jews in Israel. Russell predicted in 1878 that the Jews would return to Israel and form a new state, and for this he was laughed at and ridiculed by every other church leader. We do not judge anyone by dates or chronology. We hold that there are only 3 important doctrines needed for the high calling: Ransom (paid by our Lord), Restitution (for all mankind under favorable conditions), and Consecration (the full commitment of our life to Christ to follow him to death). Anyone having different beliefs will still have an opportunity at the time of resurrection to obey God and live on earth. (See John 5:25)
What a great video you produced here. I liked it much more than your „over 100 differences between Mainstream Christianity and Jehovah‘s Witnesses“, as you did a deeper dive into the core doctrines and represented them in a fairer manner than you did in that older video. The doctrinal differences between Independent/International Biblestudents and JWs are marginal. I find it funny though that these groups frequently criticize the Watchtower Society to re-emphasize their independence, but keep apparently reading their literature to find fault/criticize it (according to their own understanding of scripture). Now that is totally legitimate to do so, but you won’t find JWs doing the same the other way around. It‘s like the Biblestudents see themselves in competition with JWs which is unreciprocated.
@@majafleur9646 Really- How? I mean occasionally they do criticize, yes - but that is actually pretty rare. Especially in the great scheme of things they publish. I’ve never heard them criticize the Biblestudent groups that split from them.
In Poland there was (and I think still is) quite big group of one of those Russellist groups that split from JWs called "Epifania" (which means epiphany). From what I understand there was a lot of people that broke out of watchtower controlled organisation when all those postrussell changes like removal of cross happened. Three day ago on the flea market I found a lot of Signet rings with cross and crown symbole, probably coming from those people.
Jesus our Savior and our God Hallelujah Amen 🙏 Jesus open the eyes and hearts of all people to the Truth of God's Holy Word the Bible in Jesus name I pray Amen 🙏
I'm curious about something else, though. Jehovah's Witnesses are generally characterized as a "cult" or a "high control group." The way Bible Students are discussed here, I would not expect them to be a high control group. Where might they fall on that spectrum?
They are an orwellian cult. You can get in but you cant get out. You must obey the leaders known as Governing Body in a blindly way. If you want to leave they will shun you. Its a Mafia. The Bible Students didnt agree with this and they leave.
We’re legit a group of people who study the Bible together… tons of differing opinions within each group but we all love each other and hear each other out, let each other speak sorta thing. I’d say it doesn’t get more free in thought than Bible students, and I’ve met with many many other sects. Also many of the websites quoted were made by individual members who are free to post whatever they want, it doesn’t reflect the view of every individual or even a class
@@mjproductions312this. I feel that a lot of the people that see us Bible Students as “cult followers” misspeak. They think that because our views are so different from most of Christianity, we must be a cult. In reality, the Bible Students take almost NO control over each other. People are free to come and go as they like, and no one will be excommunicated because they do not agree with something. Above all things we all generally believe that Jesus paid the ransom price for Adam, and ALL will be resurrected and given the opportunity to accept God and His ways.
5:30 By the time you got to baptism, you had already described so much heresy that their position on baptism doesn't matter. From here on, it's merely an exercise in intellectual study.
You're making wild subjective assumptions . My own baptism was very personal and spiritually moving . I cannot talk for others , however it involved my intellect , body and spirit . Dying to my own will , and comming up out of the water , raised to life in Christ . Deeply ( no pun intended) moving and unforgettable. 2 Feb 1980 in a swimming pool in South Africa 🎉
@@RAFAEL27769 I'm not talking about baptism. I'm talking about the video. The heresy he describes in that cult, before he got to baptism, disqualifies it as a sect of Christianity.
@@joshuakarr-BibleManFor a "Bibleman" you come across as rather passive aggressive . It's easy to hurl adhominems, we can all do that, however it doesn't achieve anything constructive .
That pyramid stuff takes this group from garden variety heresy straight into cloud cuckoo land. What the heck is going on with that? I'm afraid I burst out laughing at that part of the video.
Actually the Great Pyramid was a very common teaching in the 1800’s. The Dake Study Bible refuted it in the Isaiah chapter. It was *NOT* unique to Bible Students.
I've encountered this idea among some evangelicals. I first encountered it about 45 years ago, and it seems to be on the decline among them ever since.
Blible Students are not 1 group. They are at least 4 different distinctive groups: Independent Bible Students Dawn Bible Students Free Bible Students Friends of Man All of them have their own independant congregations, conventions and different beliefs.
Jesus also did say in John 14:28 that the Father was greater than him. The Apostle Paul taught that as Jesus was the head of the church, God was the head of Jesus. There's that.
@@bergeronwb When I was a Christian, I would think of Jesus as an infinite subset of God, like how even numbers are infinite, but still a smaller subset of all the numbers.
@@bergeronwbGod the Father is the head of Jesus. But Jesus being God is the head of all things as said in Colossians. You don't get to interpret the Bible anyway it's a matter reserved to the apostolic successors in the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches.
The thumbnail is correct. Jehovah's Witnesses are not follower of Charels Taze Russell. We are followers of Christ, as Bro Russell tried to be. He had some correct ideas, and some wrong ones. Russellites were too taken by a man. Early Bible Students indeed became Jehovah's Witnesses, while some people worshipped a man.
Jehovah's witnesses worshiped Rutherford over Charles Russell and then after Rutherford whoever was President of the Watchtower society at the time until the governing body became worshiped as a whole . So instead of worshiping one man Jehovah's witnesses worship a body of men called the governing body or 'mother' or the 'mother organization' as the governing body is also known, informally.
@@rosastephens8966 Jehovah's Witnesses worship Jehovah alone. And we serve the one God sent to be our Lord of the Christian congregation, and the King of God's Kingdom. My brothers seek to honor Jehovah and serve Jesus too.
Russell believed in the year 1874 and Bible Student keep this year almost as a "holy date" od second coming of the Christ .Now they are hiding many things about their history presenting them selfs as a true bible students of course .....
God in the old testament never offered sonship to his people. It seems like that offer required that Jesus first come and provide an example of sonship.
what about disfellowshipping and shunning? The Watchtower introduced this officially in 1952, but before the practice might have existed. very enlightening. thank you.
The Bible teaches and commands disfellowshipping. In Paul's letters to the Corinthians, you can see him telling the congregation in Corinth to kick out the man who was engaging in a sexual relationship with his stepmother until he repented. The purpose behind it is to protect the congregation from apostasy and to make the person who is disfellowshipped realize their error and return to following biblical protocols.
Read Russell's book " The New Creation " , where he writes extensively on ecclesiastical matters , how congregations or ecclesia ought to be organised , including discipline when serious sins are committed .
Again, my question is not about the theoretical point of view, but if the early Bible students or later Jehovah's witnesses used shunning in practice and since when (there used to be a practice of shunning even before it became doctrine in 1952).
@@robvalkeneers8357 Bible students don't practice shunning, however, individuals based on conscience might choose not to socialise with an unrepentant sinner.
Very interesting I was born and raised into the Jehovahs witnesses but never baptized and I need to get baptized asap But right now I am on a journey to search and gather brothers from every Unitarian Church. That includes the Bible students, iglesia ni cristo, christadelphians. Only these organizations teach some measure of truth and we should associate with them
Largely due to the influence of Rutherford, who held to a supersessionist theological perspective , which is the idea that the church has replaced Israel as God's people . Many other religions hold similar views . What is not mentioned in this video is that Russell was invited to speak to an audience of 5000 Jews , including many rabbis in New York in 1910 at the Hippodrome Theatre , where he explained to them , that it was God's plan and purpose for the nation of Israel to be restored to Palestine before the end of the current world order . Sadly he did not live to witness the events that followed 1914 , with the end of the Ottoman Empire , the signing of the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and the eventual establishment of the nation state of Israel in 1948 !
@@RAFAEL27769pastor Russell, being the wise and faithful servant is for sure in the Little Flock and saw all of those events, after all he is an immortal divine being right now.
They seem to oppose conversion of Jews, instead supporting Orthodox Judaism as the proper Jewish religion. One of their pastors had good relations with Netanyahu and Olmert.
Thank you for your channel. Though it's apparent you're a Christian, you disseminate factual information about various Christian denominations/organizations, which is useful to everyone, whether or not they believe. For the record, I don't believe, but I understand that knowing this stuff is useful to understand American society.
I heard once that the cross through the crown was a symbol used in occultism with a non-Christian meaning, and that Russel had some secret society connections. Interestingly, the 19th century "The Faith Mission" evangelical movement used a similar cross through a crown symbol.
Russell was raised Presbyterian, later converted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and finally started his own Bible Student movement. The cross in a crown is not an unusual symbol among Presbyterians.
@@aLadNamedNathan Russell was never seventh day Adventist. He studied under Jonas Wendel who is part of the second advent movement. He was never part of Ellen G Whites Seventh day Adventist movement.
@@Sirach144 Your statement is correct. He was not a Freemason, he was a Knights Templar "mason" there is a difference between the two but the foundation of both are based on the hierarchy structure of masonry with it's many fraternities. And that I have definite proof of
@@perceive8159 According to the Wikipedia article ""Knights Templar (Freemasonry," one must be a Freemason first before being able to join the second. These "Knights Templar" are an organization solely for Freemasons who are also Christians--of whatever denomination. What's your "definite proof"?
They would not be holding to the view, of most Bible Students in that case. The official view is that Jesus sacrificed his physical body and was raised a spiritual being, with an immortal spirit body, just as he was before his incarnation as a human.
I have many Bible translations in my library , including the NWT . They all have their particular issues. However, the NWT gets an unfair rap in my view. It does have its strengths and, in some respects, is far more accurate than many other translations . Also credit to WT for the quality of its workmanship and design . For a Bible that is distributed to the public free of charge, it cannot be beaten .
@@RAFAEL27769 splitting one hair in 10 parts - Bible Student are still keeping their believe in "invisible present " of Jesus .I predict in few years they going to DENY that they ever believed in such a nonsense . I guess no one wants to talk about that particular doctrine but for many years they were judging others by it and licking them out
@@barbsaw7002 The true Bible Student's do not judge others, but leave the judging to God when unbelievers will stand before God, and God will judge them for what they have stood for and what they have done or not done. Jesus has not yet come down to the earth for his second coming. When he does the true believers, the Bride of Christ will be brought out of their graves and Christ will bring them with him up into the heavens to be with God.
Grading by 209 test texts, Rotherham's Bible was best for accuracy. NWT was 3rd. New European Version, NASB, ASV, ESV, Complete Jewish Bible were close behind. Amplified, NIV, NAB were more middle-of the pack. TEV and Living Bible were well below average. (47 versions compared.) F.F. Bruce also spoke well of NWT in spite of some peculiarities. (In the N.T. the JWs Kingdom Interlinear diaglott is better than their NWT.)
F.F. Bruce agreed NWT was a good translation, in spite of peculiarities. Bible Students generally regard Rotherham overall as better, and a few others as a bit better. (RVIC also better.)
There’s a lot of scriptures that would show that Yashuah Jesus Christ is still flesh. Obviously glorified and eternal, but he knew what he was doing and the consequences of it. He loves us so much he was willing to sacrifice more than we can understand 🙏🙏🙏
I’m a Bible student. We aren’t a monolith that can be said “they believe this or that.” We vary and don’t have an organization or leader to adhere to. Not all of us believe Jesus was created. Not all of us believe Jesus is Michael. None is us what I know use the NWT. Not all never 1874 or 1914 not the invisible presence. No human after this Gospel Age will have an opportunity to be of the divine nature. Only from Pentecost until the end of this age. ALL will be raised from the gave. Not just Christian’s.
@@BeingaChristian In the OT the hope set out for Israel was for the Messiah to come and reign from an earthly Kingdom. Never do you see heavenly hope in the Old Testament. Jesus came and offered a heavenly hope to the Jews first. When the nation rejected this offer he had now gone out to the gentiles and offered the heavenly joint heirship and to reign in heaven to the church. The Holy Spirit was poured out from Pentecost and will continue until the end of the age. Those who are begotten of the Holy Spirit, have the hope of reigning with Christ in the millennium. However, after the heavenly call is over at the end of the age that hope to the divine nature, and joint heirship with Christ will never be offered to the world of mankind again. The dead will come back in the resurrection and have a hope of gaining life on earth. Israel will be restored to their homeland, and they will be the chief nation in the millennium. However, Christ in his bride will reign from heaven. The offer to reign in heaven was never offered in the old Testament. They had an earthly hope. The whole point of going to heaven to reign with Christ is to bring the world of mankind back from the dead and be kings and priests. Satan during this time according to Revelation 20 will be locked away during this time. The world of mankind will be learning righteousness, and then be tested after Satan let back out at the end of the millennium.
@@Sirach144, Once you understand the Reason of deception at Eden and what mankind lost, The reason for Ransom as portrayed in OT sacrifice and prophecies about the Messiah sacrifice of Redemption from Sin n death. Finally the restoration of mankind to Adam's state by the Church. All the scriptures and teaching and Gospel fall in line and harmonize with each other..
14:11 "few incorrigible?" The Bible records that after the Millennium, Satan will be unbound once more and gather countless millions of people, "as the sand of the sea," to rebel against the Christ whom they've seen *in person for 1000 years* . If anyone follows these Bible "Students," please wake up and get saved! Reading all these heretical misrepresentations is heartbreaking.
I went from JW to Evangelical and am now a Bible student . The only Biblically sound theological views in my experience . Ironically, I became a Bible Student after trying to prove that Russell was a false prophet and after reading all 6 volumes of Studies in the Scriptures , to prove them wrong !
@@Sirach144interesting, if the High calling is over, then the sealing of the new covenant with the people of Israel would have already been possible by that time, when they weren't even a nation, which doesn't make sense.
@@starlite5097 The concept of the high calling being closed was based on the concept of the parallel dispensations. Also, the New covenant will be made with Israel when the kingdom is established in the millennial age. The church is under the heavenly features of the Abrahamic Covenant. We are not under the new covenant. . Not all of us believe in the high calling being closed. I’m a Bible student and I don’t believe the church is part of the sin offering based on Hebrews 7:27 and I don’t believe that Jesus had returned. I believe that was a concept invented by the Adventists when 1874 failed.
Did the Bible students, you know students of the Bible... meaning they study the Bible, miss Matthew 24:23-28........It seems their whole theology is built on skipping this....................same with the JWs.... like Jesus is not going to return in secret bros....
Bible students are not saying here is Jesus in a secret chamber. They say: Mat 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." The presence of Jesus is evident in the phenomenal changes we have all witnessed in the last century: the destabilization of kingdoms (Dan 2:45), the vast increase in knowledge and transportation (Dan 12:4), the end of gentile dominion over Israel (Luke 21:24), and the reconstituting of the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 36,37 etc.) Can you not see all these things happening that were prophesied? It's no secret!
If I have to choose between the JWs and the IBSA, I would choose the second one. You can celebrate anything and there is no HQ which makes it more democrat! Also Russell was kinder and nicer than Rutherford who was more brusque and bossy.
Leaving aside all the heresies of this group, I oddly like their solution to the eternal question: what place should such billions of people, unconverted in their lifetime without any fault of their own, have in the ultimate eternal life, if it is not the lake of fire or something equally bad? Introducing different classes of saved somehow helps to reconcile the grace of God and the distinctive role of elected Christians in this temporal life.
Thank you! I agree. In addition, the idea of people having a future chance of life gives an explanation for the permission of evil during this age. Everyone has seen the consequences of sin and seperation from God - suffering and death. This experience will help people choose more wisely in the times of restitution.
It's not that Christ has literally arrived on earth invisibly. Actually through the power of the Holy Spirit he has always been present with his followers. What is meant by his "returning" is that he has turned his attention towards earth and humanity. Arguably, this can be witnessed through the increase of knowledge , both spiritual and secular , with the rapid explosion of new technology , modes of transportation and many other advances , humans have made and are making in almost every field , including science and medicine , particularly since the late 19th century .
Mat 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." The presence of Jesus is evident in the phenomenal changes we have all witnessed in the last century: the destabilization of kingdoms (Dan 2:45), the vast increase in knowledge and transportation (Dan 12:4), the end of gentile dominion over Israel (Luke 21:24), and the reconstituting of the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 36,37 etc.) Can you not see all these things happening that were prophesied?
As far as the age of the earth and dinosaurs, the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. On day one came the Light, then dry land, trees and grasses. The 4th day was the sun, moon, and stars. Then the sea creatures and fowl of the air. And of course the 6th day were land creatures and man & woman. The 7th day became our Sabbath rest, the Lord's day. So how could any creature pre-exist before there was dry land and the sun? Take the Bible as it reads. The earth was void and without form until God moved upon it. ❤
Hell is simply the grave . Gehenna, on the other hand, is an appropriate symbol of annhilation . As for Judas , perhaps there is a bit of Judas in all of us . We all betray our Lord and Saviour at times , because of our sinful nature. Was Judas remorseful? He took his own life , because he could not live with his guilt and conscience . Was he worse than any other sinner , standing at the cross when Jesus said " forgive them , they know not what they do" ?
In 1954, prior to the release of the false JW Bible translation, JWs prayed to and worshipped Jesus. I will post the quotes underneath. And keep in mind even in the JW Bible Stephen offered his spirit to Christ while being martyred in the Book of Acts. "It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter-the leading apostle- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3 "It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157 "Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216 "In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15 In the 1950's, Watchtower changed it's teachings regarding Jesus. This coincided with the release of it's own Bible translation, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Contrary to most translations, the New World Translation translated the word proskuneō as obeisance rather than worship whenever it referred to Jesus. This is despite translating proskuneō as worship for almost every other occurrence. Proskuneō occurs 60 times in the Greek Scriptures. Of the 17 times it applies to Jesus, all 17 occurrences were translated by the New World Translation as obeisance. (In the 2013 revision, 2 of these times have been changed to "bow".) The only other instance where prokuneō is translated as 'obeisance' is when Cornelius bows to Peter. (Worship would be correct here as well. Peter interprets this act as a form of worship, as he rejects it immediately.) Of the remaining 42 times proskuneō appears, it is always translated as worship, regardless of whether it is referring to Jehovah, angels, humans, Satan, demons, the wild beast and its image, or idols.
Hmm so basically based on their understanding of the nature of Jesus (now immortal/divine) JWs and Bible Students r not monotheistic religions?? How does that square with the first n greatest commandment of the old n New Testament? And isn’t claiming divinity (being a son of a god or a demigod is what allowed the Pharisees to attack Jesus??? Also isn’t this part of the point of the trinity which is to avoid this conflict in the first place, and explain that Jesus was God in flesh so as to not violate 1st commandment n keep Christianity monotheistic?? So I’m confused, help me out ???
Jesus quoted a scripture, I said ye are gods (plural). If all these, and Jesus, are subordinate to God the Father, then it is still monotheism - one Almighty God.
The Father is superior to the son in all respects. Joh_3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Joh_5:19 The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Joh_5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
4:52 if Jesus wasn't God, then he was a man. If he was a man, then he couldn't pay for all of man's sins because he wasn't infinite. If he wasn't infinite, then he couldn't pay for your sins, past present and future. The Bible Students' God therefore does not offer salvation, but a salve (ointment) and is thus a liar. Please do not misrepresent the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit like this. "God is not a man, that He should lie." Num 23:19
Some are , not all . Like Russell, we don't consider it to be a doctrine, rather speculative. Russell was not the only minister to hold the view . It's a fascinating topic if you look into it , instead of making wild assumptions . Personally I think there is supporting evidence that points to the Giza pyramid having been built by nomads , referred to as the Hyksos. Did they receive divine revelation in regards to its architectural structure? Isaiah 19 :19 to 20 says " "In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border." Today some evangelical groups are also adopting this theory. I don't personally think it is helpful to be dogmatic either way. We shall wait and see 🎉
@@RAFAEL27769 Yannes and Yambres (2 Timothy 3:8) were prominent Hyksos kings; so the pyramids (built with unmatched technology) must have been much earlier. Otherwise, thanks for the expressions.
Russell was a Seventh-day Adventist before starting his own Bible Student movement. While Russell's movement has some significant differences from the Adventist movement, it also received a number of Adventist ideas, so there are some definite similarities as well.
@@aLadNamedNathan No he was never a Seventh Day Adventist of Ellen G White. Seventh day Adventist evolved out of the second Advent movement of William Miller when his 1843/1844 prophesy failed. I think you’re confusing it with the second advent movement.
@@americanswan What I’m referring to is there a mini Adventist that have broken off of the main seventh day Adventist Church because they don’t believe in the trinity.
We are Bible Students and I am favorably impressed by how well the movement(s) are described.
When is your graduation ?
@@b213videoz If you mean university degrees, Theresa's PhD was 1990 from McGill/Montreal. James's three degrees were 1959-1961 from U. Mich./Ann Arbor (though none was a PhD).
@@ti77park I meant "students" who are always studying but not learning anything 😆
Biblical quote by the way
In my ignorance I had believed the JWs and Bible Students to be the same group. Fascinating video.
I think that's the narrative the JWs try to push, that they're the sole successors to the Bible Students.
No we are not Jehovahs Witnesses.
Not the same GROUP, but we did retain the moniker Bible Student amongst us. Not as a title of distinction, but just what we do. We study the Bible, so it's appropriate that we're Students of the Bible.
It's definitely a fascinating history. I myself have just recently been learning so much about the past and I really do enjoy understanding all of it.
@philodendron
Bible students started under Charles Taze Russell.
Then changed to Jehovah's Witnesses, I believe, under Judge Rutherford and continues on today.
Rutherford, Knorr et al continued on with the name Jehovah's Witnesses who are a corrupted Bible Students Association.
Not the same group, however they are our cousins spiritually speaking .
I firmly believe God has a plan for WT and Jehovah Witnesses.
Recent changes made by WT seem to point to a return to some of the earlier shared theological perspectives.
Interesting times we live in .
Thank you, I appreciated this very accurate exposition of the bible student movement. There is one thing I think should be added:
Bible student doctrine provides a wonderful answer to the question of the permission of evil.
Adam and Eve had no experience with evil when they chose to sin. They had no idea of the terrible consequences of disobedience and separation from God, the suffering and death. Their progeny would have to experience all that suffering as a result of being born into sin. In so doing, they all would gain the experience that Adam and Eve did not have.
Christ provided a ransom payment for the sin of Adam (the death of a perfect man to pay the price of the sin by a perfect man), and consequently all of Adam's descendants are entitled to another life, but next time under ideal conditions of a restored earth and a knowledge of God. The likelihood is that they will choose to obey God at that time, having seen the negative effects of sin.
The Bible Students are a good example of how sincere, well meaning people can wander into heresy if left to their own devices.
And if they don’t have 1st John 5:7, and if they believe that Christian translators even as a whole are ever learning and never able to come to knowledge of the truth.
Exactly!
That’s exactly the definition of Protestantism
Amen
@@toferg.8264 Mormons have 1 John 5.7 in their Bible (since they're essentially King James Onlyists), and they're heretics as well: they take the oneness of the three Divine Persons to mean oneness in purpose between three celestial beings. It's the same thing with many Oneness Pentecostals, who teach the heresy of modalism: they reject the idea that the One God has three distinct hypostases, instead seeing the Father, Son, and Spirit as three modes or roles performed by a single-personed God. A disputed verse--one that was questioned not only by the original compiler of the Textus Receptus but by most of the English versions of the 1530s--is neither the guardian of trinitarian orthodoxy nor an assurance that the user will embrace true trinitarianism over heresies.
I used to think that Bible Students was just another name for Jehovah's Witnesses. It's great to know that they are okay with blood transfusions. Thank you for the info!
There is much that separates the two groups. I am a Bible Student. I'm free to answer any questions you might still have!
I'm impressed with the amount of research it took to make this video. Very well done.
Christ is risen!
He is risen indeed!
Amen 😊@@Ggdivhjkjl
He is risen indeed
Nope.
Happy Easter! He is Risen!
Alleluia!
He is risen indeed!! 🙌
Repent!
He is risen indeed! Alleluia!
@@tonybasoni8443He probably already repented during Lent, that's the whole purpose of it, to prepare you for the Holy Pascha of the Lord
*He is Risen!*
*Blessed Resurrection Sunday to all!*
I'm a Bible Student, who is a former Jehovah's Witness. You did good to capture the essence of the Bible Students. Too often people get us confused with the JW's. Thank you!
Are you associated with any of our ecclesias? I am with the New Haven, CT ecclesia. Your video about our people coming out of the Jehovah's Witnesses is right on target. Now if only those in the JW group would come out and seek the truth.
@@cinmason51 Yes, Sr. Cindy, I have many fond memories attending and fellowshipping with the New Haven brethren. I have since relocated to the MidWest and haven't had much fellowship with the East Coast brethren.
I am not necessarily leaving the Jehovahs witnesses, I will continue to associate them but I want to expand my learnings and knowledge associating with other Unitarian based organizations/groups
Do you get many Ex-JWs?
@gjhartist3685 we have quite a few former JWs among our ranks. Former elder, servants, pioneers and bethelites.
I appreciate your thorough and non-biased approach to your research. Keep up the good work! Using all the first hand sources make this very accurate.
Well documented and accurate. Thanks for including the websites where your research comes from. I thought I knew a fair amount about Bible Students, but there were a couple of sites I hadn't seen before. I watched a couple of your videos and appreciate your accuracy and sincerity in presenting beliefs which are not your own. This video makes me want to be a student in your classroom and to learn more about history and beliefs of the various religions. I plan to watch the rest of your videos and learn from this academic standpoint. I've shared your video and your channel with friends and family.
This family member is glad you shared it with us.
Thank you so much for finnally making a video on the origin of the jehovahs witnessess. Or rather the group they were before, i find them so facinating and hearing you talk about them in your standard non-biased way is just so awesome
It is his standard non-biased way. In fact the only time I recall him ever deviating from that tone was when he described the Jehovah's as witnesses themselves. He just had trouble hiding his well placed contempt in that case.
They shun all who voluntarily leave, destroying lives, families, hopes and dreams. They are run by 9 men called the governing body who are worshipped and called their kings. Please do not ascribe too much fascination to this cult.
Feels like being a "Bible Student" and testing all scriptures, truth and keep your faith, works and Character, also to be accountable for oneself for their actions and choices in life. Feels like people give more emphasis on being denominational oriented and condemning other denominations as being false or hearsay.
If you Love others like Jesus commanded, we will have tolerance to differences in opinion and keep what's useful for your faith to grow in Christ as his disciples. Thank you for the Non bias videos, it's something to learn always to know about what it means to Be a Christan looking at so many differences within Religon.
I agree more with your kind of thinking,
That is part of Christianity . We must be able to condemn biblical error
@@woobiefuntime, Not any of the Christian denomination has 100% complete, Most of them know in parts and emphasize/follow in part, Some more right than the other in certain aspects.
Where do you stand in this statement?
Everyone draws their circle somewhere, even you I'm sure
Yes. If Jesus Christ died once for all, it gives us reason to learn to have love even for our enemies.
Happy Easter! ✝️
What is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible????
Glad he has gotten to the other Bible Students. I have studied them deeply and found the movement interesting. Now if only he can do the other Mormon sects other than the mainstream LDS church. Keep up the good work.
I’m holding out hope for videos on the broader Latter Day Saint movement myself!
I’m a Bible Student. He got a lot right.
Seems like a very complicated, complex, religion. @Sirach144
@@margaretschwartzentruber3154
I understand. It’s not hard. God had a plan for everyone. Everyone that has ever lived. Just right now he is calling the Bride for His Son. After the Bride is complete then they and Jesus will be used to restore everyone that has ever existed back to the perfection that was lost in Adam. Satan will be locked away during this millennium. After they are perfect as Adam was Satan will be allowed to test the world apart from being sinful. If they sin they go into the second death. The rest will live on the earth forever.
Check out his videos, he's covered all those.
I got to admit, you had me hopeful for them in the first part.
And then the polytheistic shoe dropped.
Anyone and everyone who says or worse, claims Jesus to be God's creation is a heretic and let it be anathema.q
I was also hopeful
This was very good. Subbed.
Thank you for your report.
Strange and interesting. Happy Resurrection Sunday!
I live about 200 feet from the placard that commemorates Russel and the bible students meeting place here in the Northside Pittsburgh. While I was never religious myself, my ex wife is a 6th gen JW - her great great grandfather was of the anointed this placing him as a JW in the 1920s at the birth of the religion here.
I'd heard of the Bible Students but wasn't sure what they were so very informative.
Thank you for this.
Happy Easter! Christ is Risen!
He is risen indeed!
What is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible?????
@@GgdivhjkjlWhat is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible?
@@vusimngomezulu2500 Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth (probably not actually on Dec 25), good Friday is the remembrance of Christ's crucifixion on the cross (not a torture stake), and Easter is the recognition and celebration of Christ resurrection (not re creation).
If you want to talk about biblical accuracy concerning the NWT, I suppose we can. Would you like to start with Jesus (according to the Watchtower) being Michael the Archangel, Appolyon and Abandon? Or about Jesus (according to the Watchtower) being a created being? Or that (according to the Watchtower) the Holy Spirit is an impersonal "active force"?
@@DemonDog444 Please show me the words Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter in the Bible.
Excellent video 👍
Which church are true according to the Bible in this world? Because many churches are not true according to this scriptures, Matthew 7:21-23,Roman's 10;1-3,2Corintians 11:12-15,2thimoty 4:3-4,2Peter 2:1-3, and what is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible?????
Happy Easter!!!!
What is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible????
@@vusimngomezulu2500
Are you trying to say we shouldn't celebrate the holy things God has done? What?
@@jacobcarter6332 But your ignore my simple question 😭, what is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible????
@@vusimngomezulu2500 a celebration of things that happened in the bible?
@@jacobcarter6332 Please show me a Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter in the Bible.
Happy Easter
What is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible????
@@vusimngomezulu2500 Are you a JW?
Very good 👍 🎉
Yes, the Bible Students! ❤
Your research is very impressive ✔️
Thanks!
I appreciate that, John!
Happy Easter! Another great video. Have you ever thought of doing something on the Community of Christ or the New Apostolic Church? Two really interesting denominations in my opinion
Are you the same Pascal Friedman who frequents the Lds churchgrowth blog?
@@weirdlanguageguy Actually yes.
@@pascalfriedmann1479 What a coincidence!
I knew two New apostolic church adherents. They have strange teachings and for some reason they are quite big here in germany. There are more New apostolic church members in Germany than there are evangelicals (though mainline protestants exeeed both by magnitudes). They have realy strange teachings and I think it is time that Ready for Harvest covers them. Fun fact: The New apostolic church has predecessor and splinter groups that are even stranger like that one group that believes that there are no more valid priests around so they hold services without sacraments and read from the sermons the last valid priests gave (over 100 years ago). They are in northern germany. They are like the sedevacantists of the New apostolic church.
Interesting video for Easter.
What is Christmas, Goodfriday and Easter according to the Bible????
I was born and raised in this cult. I turn 18 and dipped out. Luckily I was able to talk my family out of it. Converted to Greek Catholic last fall and now im a Catechumen.
Welcome home!
Welcome home! Which one of them did you join? Melkites, ukranians, ruthenians or some other?
The truth is, you have only gone from one false manmade religion and deception right into another one.
From one works-based false Christianity to another. Yea?
My apologies: Perhaps Russelite Bible students don’t believe in works-based-salvation. But they believe in a finite creature, false Jesus.
Nice job. I've studied this for way too many hours and you did a great job. The funny thing about the Bible Students that quit Watchtower is that for decades they were talked about as demonic, haughty and working for Satan as the "evil slave class" as opposed to the "faithful and discreet slave class" which were Watchtower adherents. Some time in the last 20 years or so Watchtower finally ditched that perjorative moniker and have pretty much left Bible Students alone, though they still hold Charles Russell in high regard.
That's true for most religious groups: the only thing worse than an unbeliever, is a fellow believer who is slightly wrong.
@@TurtleMarcus haha true
I’m in a position that I won’t join any membership in one church but multiple
I’m in between the witnesses, Bible students, Unitarians and iglesia ni cristo
They sound like a revival of Arianism.
That’s essentially what it is
Rowan Williams , once Archbishop of the Church of England , who studied Arius, had the following to say about him :
"Arius' views have always been "represented as … some hopelessly defective form of belief."
Contrary to this view, Rowan Williams recently concluded that Arius is "a thinker and exegete of resourcefulness, sharpness and originality."
Although his character has been severely assailed by his opponents, Arius appears to have been a man of personal ascetic achievement, pure morals, and decided convictions.
"He was very tall in stature, with downcast countenance … always garbed in a short cloak and sleeveless tunic; he spoke gently, and people found him persuasive and flattering."
It is traditional to claim that Arius was a deliberate radical, breaking away from the 'orthodoxy' of the church fathers. However:
"A great deal of recent work seeking to understand Arian spirituality has, not surprisingly, helped to demolish the notion of Arius and his supporters as deliberate radicals, attacking a time-honoured tradition." "Arius was a committed theological conservative; more specifically, a conservative Alexandrian."
(Wikipedia)
@@MichaelTheophilus906 Not true! The Bible says of Jesus "in him was the fullness of almighty God," & "there arexthree who bearxwitness in heaven--the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit AND THESE THREE ARE ONE."
Jesus said "I & the Father are One" & "he who has seen me has seen the Father" and "before Abraham was, I AM."
If you are goingvto be Arius, prepare to meet a Nicholas!
@@RAFAEL27769 He was still wrong. If Santa Claus beats you up, it means you've been very, VERY naughty indeed!
@@brucealanwilson4121
😂😂😂
Very helpful.
I'd really like a video about the "Friends of man" denomination which was founded by Alexander Freytag. It also belongs to the Bible student movement and it claims 70.000 adherents so it should be the second biggest denomination in the movement (after Jehovah's Witnesses).
That is true, largely in Europe, though I think the French and Swiss groups have divided from each other.
Very interesting
I’m a Bible student but I was a Jehovah’s Witness
still keeping 1874 as a year of second coming of Christ ? Judging others by the date ?
@@barbsaw7002 Our position is that Christ invisibly returned in 1874 to do what he promised starting with the gathering of the elect, and continuing with the gradual breaking apart of the kingdoms of this world starting with the fall of the great monarchs of Europe in 1914, as predicted by Russell, then the End of Gentile Times (Luke 21:24) which resulted in the regathering of the Jews in Israel. Russell predicted in 1878 that the Jews would return to Israel and form a new state, and for this he was laughed at and ridiculed by every other church leader.
We do not judge anyone by dates or chronology. We hold that there are only 3 important doctrines needed for the high calling: Ransom (paid by our Lord), Restitution (for all mankind under favorable conditions), and Consecration (the full commitment of our life to Christ to follow him to death). Anyone having different beliefs will still have an opportunity at the time of resurrection to obey God and live on earth. (See John 5:25)
Whoa I found you by accident Fernando! But who am I? (Hint: This is my Father’s World by Chris Rice)
@ Justin
lol
What a great video you produced here. I liked it much more than your „over 100 differences between Mainstream Christianity and Jehovah‘s Witnesses“, as you did a deeper dive into the core doctrines and represented them in a fairer manner than you did in that older video. The doctrinal differences between Independent/International Biblestudents and JWs are marginal. I find it funny though that these groups frequently criticize the Watchtower Society to re-emphasize their independence, but keep apparently reading their literature to find fault/criticize it (according to their own understanding of scripture). Now that is totally legitimate to do so, but you won’t find JWs doing the same the other way around. It‘s like the Biblestudents see themselves in competition with JWs which is unreciprocated.
Wrong. The JWs are hyper critical of ALL but themselves.
@@majafleur9646 Really- How? I mean occasionally they do criticize, yes - but that is actually pretty rare. Especially in the great scheme of things they publish. I’ve never heard them criticize the Biblestudent groups that split from them.
In Poland there was (and I think still is) quite big group of one of those Russellist groups that split from JWs called "Epifania" (which means epiphany). From what I understand there was a lot of people that broke out of watchtower controlled organisation when all those postrussell changes like removal of cross happened. Three day ago on the flea market I found a lot of Signet rings with cross and crown symbole, probably coming from those people.
Epifania is represented at 2:45 they belong to the branch at the top - LHMM
In the U.S., that would be Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, or of those who left it, Parousia and Epiphany Bible Students.
In Germany they were called Ernste Bibelforscher, what means Serious Bible Explorers.
Das ist richtig. Hitler's persecutions did not distinguish Ernste Bibelforscher from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Jesus our Savior and our God Hallelujah Amen 🙏 Jesus open the eyes and hearts of all people to the Truth of God's Holy Word the Bible in Jesus name I pray Amen 🙏
I'm curious about something else, though. Jehovah's Witnesses are generally characterized as a "cult" or a "high control group." The way Bible Students are discussed here, I would not expect them to be a high control group. Where might they fall on that spectrum?
They are an orwellian cult. You can get in but you cant get out. You must obey the leaders known as Governing Body in a blindly way. If you want to leave they will shun you. Its a Mafia. The Bible Students didnt agree with this and they leave.
We’re legit a group of people who study the Bible together… tons of differing opinions within each group but we all love each other and hear each other out, let each other speak sorta thing. I’d say it doesn’t get more free in thought than Bible students, and I’ve met with many many other sects. Also many of the websites quoted were made by individual members who are free to post whatever they want, it doesn’t reflect the view of every individual or even a class
@@mjproductions312this. I feel that a lot of the people that see us Bible Students as “cult followers” misspeak. They think that because our views are so different from most of Christianity, we must be a cult. In reality, the Bible Students take almost NO control over each other. People are free to come and go as they like, and no one will be excommunicated because they do not agree with something. Above all things we all generally believe that Jesus paid the ransom price for Adam, and ALL will be resurrected and given the opportunity to accept God and His ways.
5:30
By the time you got to baptism, you had already described so much heresy that their position on baptism doesn't matter.
From here on, it's merely an exercise in intellectual study.
You're making wild subjective assumptions .
My own baptism was very personal and spiritually moving .
I cannot talk for others , however it involved my intellect , body and spirit .
Dying to my own will , and comming up out of the water , raised to life in Christ .
Deeply ( no pun intended) moving and unforgettable.
2 Feb 1980 in a swimming pool in South Africa 🎉
@@RAFAEL27769
I'm not talking about baptism.
I'm talking about the video.
The heresy he describes in that cult, before he got to baptism, disqualifies it as a sect of Christianity.
@@joshuakarr-BibleManFor a "Bibleman" you come across as rather passive aggressive .
It's easy to hurl adhominems, we can all do that, however it doesn't achieve anything constructive .
@@RAFAEL27769
There's no ad hominem in rejecting heresy.
There might be though, in rejecting heretics.
That pyramid stuff takes this group from garden variety heresy straight into cloud cuckoo land. What the heck is going on with that? I'm afraid I burst out laughing at that part of the video.
Don't forget, Michael Jackson was once a JW. Maybe this is what is meant by Neverland.
Actually the Great Pyramid was a very common teaching in the 1800’s. The Dake Study Bible refuted it in the Isaiah chapter. It was *NOT* unique to Bible Students.
It's not a core theological doctrine and never was .
Not all Bible Students agree on the topic .
The beauty of freedom of thought .
@@RAFAEL27769
Exactly. I study the Tabernacle Symbology and Typology. I don’t believe in the Great Pyramid!
@@Sirach144 Great,actually I'm keeping an open mind on the pyramid , not persuaded either as yet , however certainly not a salvation issue .
The Bible Students I discussed with combined YEC and OEC in a strange way. The Earth itself is very old, but life is only 6000 years old.
I've encountered this idea among some evangelicals. I first encountered it about 45 years ago, and it seems to be on the decline among them ever since.
That would be human life, not all life.
Bro was you in battle bots?
So basically they are the independent baptist version of JWs?
Blible Students are not 1 group. They are at least 4 different distinctive groups:
Independent Bible Students
Dawn Bible Students
Free Bible Students
Friends of Man
All of them have their own independant congregations, conventions and different beliefs.
Well, I agree with them on Calvanism. 😊
JESUS, himself said . No one comes to the father, except through me.
lil pompous I think.
Jesus also did say in John 14:28 that the Father was greater than him. The Apostle Paul taught that as Jesus was the head of the church, God was the head of Jesus. There's that.
@@bergeronwb When I was a Christian, I would think of Jesus as an infinite subset of God, like how even numbers are infinite, but still a smaller subset of all the numbers.
@@bergeronwbGod the Father is the head of Jesus. But Jesus being God is the head of all things as said in Colossians. You don't get to interpret the Bible anyway it's a matter reserved to the apostolic successors in the Catholic Church and Orthodox churches.
What about Christadelphians, Gideons
Video on Christadelphians coming later this year
The thumbnail is correct. Jehovah's Witnesses are not follower of Charels Taze Russell. We are followers of Christ, as Bro Russell tried to be. He had some correct ideas, and some wrong ones.
Russellites were too taken by a man. Early Bible Students indeed became Jehovah's Witnesses, while some people worshipped a man.
Jehovah's witnesses worshiped Rutherford over Charles Russell and then after Rutherford whoever was President of the Watchtower society at the time until the governing body became worshiped as a whole . So instead of worshiping one man Jehovah's witnesses worship a body of men called the governing body or 'mother' or the 'mother organization' as the governing body is also known, informally.
@@rosastephens8966 Jehovah's Witnesses worship Jehovah alone. And we serve the one God sent to be our Lord of the Christian congregation, and the King of God's Kingdom.
My brothers seek to honor Jehovah and serve Jesus too.
William Miller really messed up a lot of people
Not nearly enough as the Catholic church and the Protestant Reformers though.
Many a religious teacher has been mistaken about the end times, not just Miller . Sadly, he also allowed his mistakes to lose his faith .
@@RAFAEL27769 Your history is incorrect. Miller died a Christian
@@jonasaras🎉
did russel come up with 1914 using pyrimd dementions?
No
@@RAFAEL27769 i found that in the bible students web site......
@@RAFAEL27769 ua-cam.com/video/ty1eZm_nY8M/v-deo.html
Russell believed in the year 1874 and Bible Student keep this year almost as a "holy date" od second coming of the Christ .Now they are hiding many things about their history presenting them selfs as a true bible students of course .....
Not from the pyramid, but from 7 times of the Gentiles (7x360=)2520 years.
So many schisms. So many different teachings of the same text. So many different interpretations of the same text.
Did God in the Old Testament say he was Our Father?
God in the old testament never offered sonship to his people. It seems like that offer required that Jesus first come and provide an example of sonship.
what about disfellowshipping and shunning? The Watchtower introduced this officially in 1952, but before the practice might have existed. very enlightening. thank you.
The Bible teaches and commands disfellowshipping. In Paul's letters to the Corinthians, you can see him telling the congregation in Corinth to kick out the man who was engaging in a sexual relationship with his stepmother until he repented. The purpose behind it is to protect the congregation from apostasy and to make the person who is disfellowshipped realize their error and return to following biblical protocols.
that was not the question. before 1952 the remedial form of excommunication was seen as unscriptural.
Read Russell's book " The New Creation " , where he writes extensively on ecclesiastical matters , how congregations or ecclesia ought to be organised , including discipline when serious sins are committed .
Again, my question is not about the theoretical point of view, but if the early Bible students or later Jehovah's witnesses used shunning in practice and since when (there used to be a practice of shunning even before it became doctrine in 1952).
@@robvalkeneers8357
Bible students don't practice shunning, however, individuals based on conscience might choose not to socialise with an unrepentant sinner.
Not enough time to view screen shots!
Very interesting
I was born and raised into the Jehovahs witnesses but never baptized and I need to get baptized asap
But right now I am on a journey to search and gather brothers from every Unitarian Church. That includes the Bible students, iglesia ni cristo, christadelphians. Only these organizations teach some measure of truth and we should associate with them
Never knew there was a group named the Bible students.
I am a JW and Proud of it and the Teachings The Truth will set Free .
The jw teachings are changed every few years under the guise of ' new light'
Truth does not change
Interesting that the JWs and Bible Students disagree on Zionism.
Happy Easter!
Largely due to the influence of Rutherford, who held to a supersessionist theological perspective , which is the idea that the church has replaced Israel as God's people .
Many other religions hold similar views .
What is not mentioned in this video is that Russell was invited to speak to an audience of 5000 Jews , including many rabbis in New York in 1910 at the Hippodrome Theatre , where he explained to them , that it was God's plan and purpose for the nation of Israel to be restored to Palestine before the end of the current world order .
Sadly he did not live to witness the events that followed 1914 , with the end of the Ottoman Empire , the signing of the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and the eventual establishment of the nation state of Israel in 1948 !
@@RAFAEL27769pastor Russell, being the wise and faithful servant is for sure in the Little Flock and saw all of those events, after all he is an immortal divine being right now.
They seem to oppose conversion of Jews, instead supporting Orthodox Judaism as the proper Jewish religion. One of their pastors had good relations with Netanyahu and Olmert.
This year, the Jehovah's Witnesses had their Memorial with the Purim full moon, not the Passover full moon.
Because this is a Jewish leap year , so the dates differ , however 24 March would be correct .
Thank you for your channel. Though it's apparent you're a Christian, you disseminate factual information about various Christian denominations/organizations, which is useful to everyone, whether or not they believe. For the record, I don't believe, but I understand that knowing this stuff is useful to understand American society.
that there are more JWs in America...then Episcopalians and Church of Christ-ers combined...sorta sucks....
Have you done one on Gnostic
I heard once that the cross through the crown was a symbol used in occultism with a non-Christian meaning, and that Russel had some secret society connections. Interestingly, the 19th century "The Faith Mission" evangelical movement used a similar cross through a crown symbol.
Russell was *NEVER* a Freemason. So many Christian’s use the cross and crown.
Russell was raised Presbyterian, later converted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and finally started his own Bible Student movement. The cross in a crown is not an unusual symbol among Presbyterians.
@@aLadNamedNathan
Russell was never seventh day Adventist. He studied under Jonas Wendel who is part of the second advent movement. He was never part of Ellen G Whites Seventh day Adventist movement.
@@Sirach144 Your statement is correct. He was not a Freemason, he was a Knights Templar "mason" there is a difference between the two but the foundation of both are based on the hierarchy structure of masonry with it's many fraternities. And that I have definite proof of
@@perceive8159 According to the Wikipedia article ""Knights Templar (Freemasonry," one must be a Freemason first before being able to join the second. These "Knights Templar" are an organization solely for Freemasons who are also Christians--of whatever denomination.
What's your "definite proof"?
There are Bible Students who believe that God has a human-like physical body, while still being omnipotent (in contrast to Mormon gods).
I don't understand your saying, "in contrast to Mormon gods." Sounds exactly the same as Mormon gods to me.
@@aLadNamedNathan They are not omnipotent.
They would not be holding to the view, of most Bible Students in that case.
The official view is that Jesus sacrificed his physical body and was raised a spiritual being, with an immortal spirit body, just as he was before his incarnation as a human.
Am a Bible Student, but never heard the thought God has a human-like physical body.
They reject the Watch Tower Society but consider the Watch Tower-published NWT to be one of the most accurate Bible translations? Interesting...
I have many Bible translations in my library , including the NWT .
They all have their particular issues. However, the NWT gets an unfair rap in my view. It does have its strengths and, in some respects, is far more accurate than many other translations .
Also credit to WT for the quality of its workmanship and design . For a Bible that is distributed to the public free of charge, it cannot be beaten .
@@RAFAEL27769 splitting one hair in 10 parts - Bible Student are still keeping their believe in "invisible present " of Jesus .I predict in few years they going to DENY that they ever believed in such a nonsense . I guess no one wants to talk about that particular doctrine but for many years they were judging others by it and licking them out
@@barbsaw7002 The true Bible Student's do not judge others, but leave the judging to God when unbelievers will stand before God, and God will judge them for what they have stood for and what they have done or not done. Jesus has not yet come down to the earth for his second coming. When he does the true believers, the Bride of Christ will be brought out of their graves and Christ will bring them with him up into the heavens to be with God.
Grading by 209 test texts, Rotherham's Bible was best for accuracy. NWT was 3rd. New European Version, NASB, ASV, ESV, Complete Jewish Bible were close behind. Amplified, NIV, NAB were more middle-of the pack. TEV and Living Bible were well below average. (47 versions compared.)
F.F. Bruce also spoke well of NWT in spite of some peculiarities. (In the N.T. the JWs Kingdom Interlinear diaglott is better than their NWT.)
F.F. Bruce agreed NWT was a good translation, in spite of peculiarities. Bible Students generally regard Rotherham overall as better, and a few others as a bit better. (RVIC also better.)
There’s a lot of scriptures that would show that Yashuah Jesus Christ is still flesh. Obviously glorified and eternal, but he knew what he was doing and the consequences of it. He loves us so much he was willing to sacrifice more than we can understand 🙏🙏🙏
Seems odd he would then tell us that "flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God"?
Perhaps flesh & bone can? 🎉
All that you Teading is Truth and Nothing But the Truth its Written in the Bible from Gen To Rev.
I’m a Bible student. We aren’t a monolith that can be said “they believe this or that.” We vary and don’t have an organization or leader to adhere to. Not all of us believe Jesus was created. Not all of us believe Jesus is Michael. None is us what I know use the NWT. Not all never 1874 or 1914 not the invisible presence.
No human after this Gospel Age will have an opportunity to be of the divine nature. Only from Pentecost until the end of this age.
ALL will be raised from the gave. Not just Christian’s.
What do you mean by" Only for Pentecost until the end of this age."?
@@BeingaChristian
In the OT the hope set out for Israel was for the Messiah to come and reign from an earthly Kingdom. Never do you see heavenly hope in the Old Testament. Jesus came and offered a heavenly hope to the Jews first. When the nation rejected this offer he had now gone out to the gentiles and offered the heavenly joint heirship and to reign in heaven to the church. The Holy Spirit was poured out from Pentecost and will continue until the end of the age. Those who are begotten of the Holy Spirit, have the hope of reigning with Christ in the millennium. However, after the heavenly call is over at the end of the age that hope to the divine nature, and joint heirship with Christ will never be offered to the world of mankind again. The dead will come back in the resurrection and have a hope of gaining life on earth. Israel will be restored to their homeland, and they will be the chief nation in the millennium. However, Christ in his bride will reign from heaven. The offer to reign in heaven was never offered in the old Testament. They had an earthly hope. The whole point of going to heaven to reign with Christ is to bring the world of mankind back from the dead and be kings and priests. Satan during this time according to Revelation 20 will be locked away during this time. The world of mankind will be learning righteousness, and then be tested after Satan let back out at the end of the millennium.
@@Sirach144 , I agree with same, From Pentecost until the end of age. Got confused if you were referring to " for Pentecost" as the denomination.
@@Sirach144, Once you understand the Reason of deception at Eden and what mankind lost, The reason for Ransom as portrayed in OT sacrifice and prophecies about the Messiah sacrifice of Redemption from Sin n death. Finally the restoration of mankind to Adam's state by the Church. All the scriptures and teaching and Gospel fall in line and harmonize with each other..
@@BeingaChristian yes. That’s why I’m a Bible student. Love the Ransom. Not the JW version.
14:11 "few incorrigible?" The Bible records that after the Millennium, Satan will be unbound once more and gather countless millions of people, "as the sand of the sea," to rebel against the Christ whom they've seen *in person for 1000 years* . If anyone follows these Bible "Students," please wake up and get saved! Reading all these heretical misrepresentations is heartbreaking.
EX JW. The first followers OF T. C. Russell's were called Russelites.
Technically, the first ones in fellowship were called Bible Students by themselves, and Russellites by many others.
I went from JW to Evangelical and am now a Bible student .
The only Biblically sound theological views in my experience .
Ironically, I became a Bible Student after trying to prove that Russell was a false prophet and after reading all 6 volumes of Studies in the Scriptures , to prove them wrong !
I am on the exact same path! I'm trying to locate Bible Students in my area... Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
Wow, that's so nice. I like that you persisted in managing to read all 6 volumes.
@@majafleur9646 There are Bible Students in Calgary.
Yes the Bread the Body The Wine the Blood that was poured out for our Behalf .for Repentance.
The biggest amounts of bible students is placed in Poland called Layment Ephifania movement
They are now called Bible Standard Ministries. They believe the High calling to the Bride class closed in 1914-1916.
@@Sirach144Basically a false cult.
@@Sirach144interesting, if the High calling is over, then the sealing of the new covenant with the people of Israel would have already been possible by that time, when they weren't even a nation, which doesn't make sense.
@@starlite5097
The concept of the high calling being closed was based on the concept of the parallel dispensations. Also, the New covenant will be made with Israel when the kingdom is established in the millennial age. The church is under the heavenly features of the Abrahamic Covenant. We are not under the new covenant. . Not all of us believe in the high calling being closed. I’m a Bible student and I don’t believe the church is part of the sin offering based on Hebrews 7:27 and I don’t believe that Jesus had returned. I believe that was a concept invented by the Adventists when 1874 failed.
Interesting! I like them better than JW, but disagree on the nature of the trinity.
We can agree to disagree.
Did the Bible students, you know students of the Bible... meaning they study the Bible, miss Matthew 24:23-28........It seems their whole theology is built on skipping this....................same with the JWs.... like Jesus is not going to return in secret bros....
Bible students are not saying here is Jesus in a secret chamber. They say: Mat 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." The presence of Jesus is evident in the phenomenal changes we have all witnessed in the last century: the destabilization of kingdoms (Dan 2:45), the vast increase in knowledge and transportation (Dan 12:4), the end of gentile dominion over Israel (Luke 21:24), and the reconstituting of the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 36,37 etc.) Can you not see all these things happening that were prophesied? It's no secret!
If I have to choose between the JWs and the IBSA, I would choose the second one. You can celebrate anything and there is no HQ which makes it more democrat!
Also Russell was kinder and nicer than Rutherford who was more brusque and bossy.
We would know them by their fruits. 👍
Leaving aside all the heresies of this group, I oddly like their solution to the eternal question: what place should such billions of people, unconverted in their lifetime without any fault of their own, have in the ultimate eternal life, if it is not the lake of fire or something equally bad? Introducing different classes of saved somehow helps to reconcile the grace of God and the distinctive role of elected Christians in this temporal life.
But does it matter if one likes a doctrine or not?
Thank you! I agree. In addition, the idea of people having a future chance of life gives an explanation for the permission of evil during this age. Everyone has seen the consequences of sin and seperation from God - suffering and death. This experience will help people choose more wisely in the times of restitution.
Are you sure it isn't you who are off the beam
Great, but what happened to Christ who was supposedly on earth since the middle of the 19th century, hidden somewhere in Ohio?
It's not that Christ has literally arrived on earth invisibly. Actually through the power of the Holy Spirit he has always been present with his followers.
What is meant by his "returning" is that he has turned his attention towards earth and humanity.
Arguably, this can be witnessed through the increase of knowledge , both spiritual and secular , with the rapid explosion of new technology , modes of transportation and many other advances , humans have made and are making in almost every field , including science and medicine , particularly since the late 19th century .
The evidence is not hidden; 46% of Jewry is already back in Israel.
Mat 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." The presence of Jesus is evident in the phenomenal changes we have all witnessed in the last century: the destabilization of kingdoms (Dan 2:45), the vast increase in knowledge and transportation (Dan 12:4), the end of gentile dominion over Israel (Luke 21:24), and the reconstituting of the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 36,37 etc.) Can you not see all these things happening that were prophesied?
@@davidkahn3569 No, I cannot. When Christ comes, we will know it for sure. Besides, he is not returning to Ohio. He is returning to Jerusalem.
So complicated.. makes the head swim
It’s actually not that bad. He just put it all together in one video.
As far as the age of the earth and dinosaurs, the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. On day one came the Light, then dry land, trees and grasses. The 4th day was the sun, moon, and stars. Then the sea creatures and fowl of the air. And of course the 6th day were land creatures and man & woman. The 7th day became our Sabbath rest, the Lord's day. So how could any creature pre-exist before there was dry land and the sun? Take the Bible as it reads. The earth was void and without form until God moved upon it. ❤
It seems that almost every Christian believes that Judas Iscariot has received eternal punishment either by hellfire or annihilation.
I don't.
Hell is simply the grave .
Gehenna, on the other hand, is an appropriate symbol of annhilation .
As for Judas , perhaps there is a bit of Judas in all of us .
We all betray our Lord and Saviour at times , because of our sinful nature.
Was Judas remorseful?
He took his own life , because he could not live with his guilt and conscience .
Was he worse than any other sinner , standing at the cross when Jesus said " forgive them , they know not what they do" ?
Among Associated Bible Students, some believe Judas repented and so will return on Earth, others that he is annihilated.
In 1954, prior to the release of the false JW Bible translation, JWs prayed to and worshipped Jesus. I will post the quotes underneath. And keep in mind even in the JW Bible Stephen offered his spirit to Christ while being martyred in the Book of Acts.
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter-the leading apostle- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
"It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157
"Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216
"In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15
In the 1950's, Watchtower changed it's teachings regarding Jesus. This coincided with the release of it's own Bible translation, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Contrary to most translations, the New World Translation translated the word proskuneō as obeisance rather than worship whenever it referred to Jesus. This is despite translating proskuneō as worship for almost every other occurrence.
Proskuneō occurs 60 times in the Greek Scriptures. Of the 17 times it applies to Jesus, all 17 occurrences were translated by the New World Translation as obeisance. (In the 2013 revision, 2 of these times have been changed to "bow".) The only other instance where prokuneō is translated as 'obeisance' is when Cornelius bows to Peter. (Worship would be correct here as well. Peter interprets this act as a form of worship, as he rejects it immediately.) Of the remaining 42 times proskuneō appears, it is always translated as worship, regardless of whether it is referring to Jehovah, angels, humans, Satan, demons, the wild beast and its image, or idols.
I grew up in this...cult... in my early years. I believe Jesus is FULLY Jehovah, as well as fully man, no longer part of this group.
It had noDinosors on the Ark.
Word of God must be put before man, as it says in bible, let God be true, but every man a liar.
Jehovah Witnesses still prove All things by Bible scripture.
No. They prove things by the ever changing whims of the 9 governing body, self declared kings.
Yet another cult that grew out of the Stone Campbell movement.
Campbells were Trinitarian, Stone was not; they got along with each other.
Hmm so basically based on their understanding of the nature of Jesus (now immortal/divine) JWs and Bible Students r not monotheistic religions?? How does that square with the first n greatest commandment of the old n New Testament? And isn’t claiming divinity (being a son of a god or a demigod is what allowed the Pharisees to attack Jesus???
Also isn’t this part of the point of the trinity which is to avoid this conflict in the first place, and explain that Jesus was God in flesh so as to not violate 1st commandment n keep Christianity monotheistic??
So I’m confused, help me out ???
Jesus quoted a scripture, I said ye are gods (plural). If all these, and Jesus, are subordinate to God the Father, then it is still monotheism - one Almighty God.
The Father is superior to the son in all respects.
Joh_3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Joh_5:19 The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh_5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
4:52 if Jesus wasn't God, then he was a man. If he was a man, then he couldn't pay for all of man's sins because he wasn't infinite. If he wasn't infinite, then he couldn't pay for your sins, past present and future. The Bible Students' God therefore does not offer salvation, but a salve (ointment) and is thus a liar. Please do not misrepresent the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit like this. "God is not a man, that He should lie." Num 23:19
Yes, they actually are pyramidologists...
Some are , not all .
Like Russell, we don't consider it to be a doctrine, rather speculative.
Russell was not the only minister to hold the view .
It's a fascinating topic if you look into it , instead of making wild assumptions .
Personally I think there is supporting evidence that points to the Giza pyramid having been built by nomads , referred to as the Hyksos. Did they receive divine revelation in regards to its architectural structure?
Isaiah 19 :19 to 20 says "
"In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border."
Today some evangelical groups are also adopting this theory.
I don't personally think it is helpful to be dogmatic either way. We shall wait and see 🎉
@@RAFAEL27769 Yannes and Yambres (2 Timothy 3:8) were prominent Hyksos kings; so the pyramids (built with unmatched technology) must have been much earlier. Otherwise, thanks for the expressions.
This group or these groups have nothing to do with Adventist.
Adventist know Jesus was and is divine.
Not all of them. You have a one true god movement that broke off. And it’s gaining steam.
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Russell was a Seventh-day Adventist before starting his own Bible Student movement. While Russell's movement has some significant differences from the Adventist movement, it also received a number of Adventist ideas, so there are some definite similarities as well.
@@aLadNamedNathan
No he was never a Seventh Day Adventist of Ellen G White. Seventh day Adventist evolved out of the second Advent movement of William Miller when his 1843/1844 prophesy failed. I think you’re confusing it with the second advent movement.
@@americanswan
What I’m referring to is there a mini Adventist that have broken off of the main seventh day Adventist Church because they don’t believe in the trinity.