No Support for Linux
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- The HDMI forum rejects AMD’s attempt to add HDMI 2.1+ support to its open-source Linux graphics driver.
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Display port has more functionality and is an open standard. I wish laptop makers started selling laptops with displayport.
Displayport is very often integrated with USB-C so your laptop might already support displayport.
Buy a framework
That is not happening from an enterprise perspective. About every new TV, projector, monitor has HDMI nowadays. Companies aren’t going to put DisplayPort when the majority of devices take HDMI
@@learntostrafenot an issue, there are cables that go from display port to hdmi. There is really no excuse
the good thing is displayport can be passively converted to HDMI! the other way around however requires active cables.
Step 1 - Make hdmi to display port adaptors as cheap as possible and easy to find.
Step 2 - Make displays with only display port, and ship them with a "free" adaptor (of course the cost would be embedded into the display's cost, no way around that)
Step 3 - Offer displays with the adaptor, and without the adaptor but at a cheaper price - this should gradually lean the market to buying displays with displayport only.
Step 4 - It's now reasonable for computer manufacturers to ship machines (especially laptops) with displayport only a well, since many displays don't have HDMI anymore and you could always use an adaptor.
Step 5 - Displayport everywhere!
Let's go?
Or let's just skip to DP over USB-C and ditch the HDMI completely 👍
I think the HDMI lobbyists would try their darnedest to prevent that
There's a flaw..... HDMI -> DP is hard -- as that'd likely need an HDCP stripper to reliably convert it.
DP to HDMI is easier, as you're adding HDCP support....
That's the problem.
Once people try DP inputs, and convert HDMI to DP and see black screens on movies and certain content, then they'll ditch DP and use what works.
That's the issue. HDCP support is BAKED into many devices already.
I guess you could do HDMI over DP just top get the port install base.....
@@Calslocknormalize DP -> C adapters
I moved to DisplayPort because my monitor only had 1DP and 1HDMI connectors, all my consoles are connected to a splitter and go to the HDMI port, but the computer had to go to DisplayPort, otherwise I would not have used it
It's cause of DRM
It's always cause of DRM
I suspect also Microsoft trying to stem the bleed by forcing people back onto their OS.
HDMI is DRM with a free port included, I say that as a joke but I'm not wrong.
Everyone from DRM-reliant streaming services to console manufacturers like it
because if HDCP stops working, you get no signal. So no easy "pirating" for you
@@RadikAlice then it still happens regardless. That makes me laugh...
Then I realize I'm the normie screwed on the deal...
Only drm and anti cheat at this point...
@@evildragon1774 To quote a song "(We are!) The prisoner and the jailer. Depends on the behavior, and that's fucked up to me"
It's DRM to circumvent older court rulings that allowed VCR recorders to exist. In the US, courts ruled that VCRs were legal because anything entering the home unencrypted was freely available, and therefore, you could do anything you wanted with the signal you received. By using rights management between the screen and whatever device, they're preventing personal recordings of streaming services being covered by this. You could argue that this is the reason why almost all TVs are sold with some smart capability now to encourage a cableless setting where there's no potential box in between that could make a personal recording legal.
That's basically why HDMI got pushed so hard by vendors, and the same happened with Encrypted Media Extensions, which is basically the same DRM shit but on the Web (it used to be fair, open, and free).
If I can see it, then it’s still prone to recording. I mean, I don’t need 4K recordings. I was raised on 240p anime rips 😂
It makes it now illegal, is the point. @@ArturCzajka
@@genxvrx Habibi, illegal only when police is there. Police not there? *Everything is legal!*
Biggest waste of time ever. People will just record their screens. There's always an easy workaround and nothing is going to stop people recording what's on their screens.
Luke has it backwards - people buy cables for the hardware that they already have, not the other way around.
Luke's point is that gpu manufacturers will see that nobody plugs their monitor in the HDMI port, so eventually they will decide to remove it because it doesn't make sense if nobody uses it
I mean yes but I'd prefer not to have to buy a new cable if I already have hdmi cables
@@qunas101 I believe you are thinking too much like a "High-end PC nerd" when you suggest that "nobody uses HDMI with GPUs".
Because while DP is absolutely superior, so long as TVs have only HDMI, there is a good reason to always a HDMI port in a GPU.
I for example, use DP for my high refresh rate monitor, but I also setup a 10M fiber HDMI that goes to the living room's 4K TV, so I can easily play local multiplayer games with friends and watch "downloaded" movies without having to move my case at all.
If my GPU didn't have an HDMI port, I would not be able to play in TVs at all.
@@tumamaencosplay what? How does that go against my logic? I am sure there are some 4K TVs with DP support if you search hard enough, if everyone collectively stops buying HDMI-only devices, then it doesn't make sense producing them, does it? I'm talking about long term
@@tumamaencosplayyou can get signal converters it's fine
One of my fav bands in high school was signed to Virgin. Because of that, all of their CDs came out with “copy protection” that would prevent iTunes from ripping the audio tracks in session 1 by also having some hyper-compressed, mono tracks and a shitty, proprietary player stored in session 2. If you opened it up in Explorer, you’d just see session 2.
Sounds like effective copy protection, right? Well, unless you tried to literally “copy” the disc using the software that came bundled with any CD burner. Then it would simply ask you if you wanted to copy both sessions. You’d choose just audio one, burn the CD, then rip that in iTunes anyway. All it did was waste my time and FORCE me to burn a copy for my friend.
DisplayPort, it is.
Because of the licensing fees, I have been actively avoiding HDMI-based devices and tech.
Yup, this may be a dream scenario but I want for one day that Consoles and TVS follow suit, even if it was just one port but we all know that will probably never happen.
The worst offenders are USB c hubs... Like you have USB c, which does *only* Display Port. But because DP is downwards compatible with HDMI literally every hub out there only has HDMI ports on it. It fucking sucks...
@@blubblub3786I see tons of usb c hubs with both display port and hdmi, what are you talking about
What license fee do you need to have an HDMI port??
@@everythingpony Last I read like 10 years ago was something like $2/port with discounts over a certain volume. Also like a $1/port discount for implementing HDCP.
"If people don't use it then manufacturers might not include it anymore." Sounds like it makes sense, but I still have to use an adapter if I want to use any of my nice headphones with my cell phone. Manufacturers just do manufacturer things sometimes.
That's why I refuse to buy any phone from manufacturers that do that. This obviously limits me to a only a handful of manufacturers but thankfully they still exist.
Reminds me of when the DVD "consortium" decided to not allow users to play DVDs on Linux. You could have a legal DVD with a legal DVD drive but they refused to allow their decryption key to be installed on any Linux software to actually be able to use the legal hardware and media you had purchased...
It's easy to play a DVD these days on Linux with VLC, but I hear ya, as it use to be a pain in the butt, these days it's trying to play a Blu-Ray on Linux without ripping it to another format that's the new pain.
I'm a Manjaro Gnome user, which is based on Arch, and I had to follow an Arch guide on making it work with VLC to get all the pieces of software I needed from the AUR without running into dependency conflicts, or breaking my system un/installing something wrong, and I got it, but the playback on some disc is still janky navigating the menus, but if I had to explain it to any of my friends, or family I would be pulling my hair out!!!
@@CommodoreFan64 That is because you can brute-force the key on modern hardware.
@@jamesphillips2285 Yep, but I'm just saying it's way way more of a pain in the ass than it needs to be to play a Blu-Ray.
@@CommodoreFan64I recently moved to Garuda (based on Arch) and have blu-rays i might want to watch, you wouldn't happen to remember that guide?
@@ClokworkGremlin Sorry, but UA-cam does not allows posting of website links, so just Google how to make Blu-Ray work on Arch Linux with VLC, or something to that effect, and it should come up, it's a lot of Java based stuff you need to install mainly as the Blu-Ray disc format is Java based.
Leave it to the EU to sort it out. They either will levy penalty to sink HDMI or bully them into submission. Worked for Apple and Google.
no, do one better: let's all report the hdmi forum's garbage to the ftc as a suspected antitrust violation. amd is the second-largest gpu vendor - the power should be tilted more in their favor. the hdmi forum is essentially forcing their members to refuse to deal with people who want firmware transparency. it reeks of a 15 USC 3 (Sherman Act) violation to me.
@@dead-claudia so did you report it?
Let's just drop HDMI and use DP on everything.
Edit: wow, can't believe this is my most popular comment 😅😅
The HDCP mafia says otherwise
There's several actresses that have been supporting DP for quite a while, now
I'd say more than a few, although they're nowhere near A-list.
Way too late
Issue is that it doesn’t matter as long as manufacturers are paying for putting HDMI into their devices.
If HDMI is proprietary, then it isn't a "standard". It's just common.
As if I needed any more reason to entirely ditch HDMI
So wait, do I understand this right? Are they really trying to make their cable a subscription service?
That sounds unbelievably stupid.
@@5226-p1e not quite, but they do have "fees". I wouldnt call it a sub service, but you do gotta pay for access which is bullshit.
@@5226-p1eYou have always been paying a licensing fee on all devices (GPU/Monitor/Motherboard/TV/Receiver/Console etc..) or cables that uses the HDMI connector/logo. The fee is baked into the price of the products, so most people are not even aware that such fee exists.
Consumers only pay the "invisible" fees per product, the manufacturers if they want to be part of the HDMI forum (cartel) have to also pay subscription/membership fees.
@@5226-p1e HDMI is a closed source proprietary standard. Manufacturers have to pay for licensing rights to use HDMI on their devices. The problem we have now is that the code for HDMI implementation on computers is closed source; AMD has always had fantastic driver support on Linux for their GPUs to the point that it's the only logical choice for a dGPU on Linux. AMD wanted to implement the closed source HDMI code for HDMI 2.1+ (which would add support for 4K 120hz to HDMI connections) in their open sourced driver with the closed sourced code still closed (much like MP3 codecs [another closed sourced proprietary standard] in open sourced media players) but the HDMI Forum told them to pound sand. So, to the point, the problem is an issue of licensing proprietary technology and the real problem at the heart of it all is that a standard that is on virtually all home AV equipment should just be open at this point to avoid gatekeeping of support like this. HDMI is a real negative for the tech world these days when DisplayPort exist as a completely open standard.
@@5226-p1e hopefully not a subscription for the end user, what already happened is that device manufacturers that has an HDMI port or basically using the HDMI standard, must pay licensing fees per HDMI port per device.
I have no idea why they would reject the driver proposal though, they can surely still charge the licensing fees
DisplayPort has no ARC eARC, it's big deal for TV's, Home theaters, soundbars, consoles, etc. Also no CEC so no control multiple device with one remote, no auto on/off screen when device is on/off.
DisplayPort support daisy-chaining, so you can actually send commands and streams to multiple devices, developing something like (e)ARC is trivial.
Depending on eARC show that you don't now how to set up your equipment. Stop buying all in one junk.
I don't care about daisy chaining in a home media set up that poses no use for most users e arc does
@@anonymouswhite352 the point is DP allows to create a network of devices, which can talk A/V to each other, so it is more of an implementation issue than anything.
@@DosonTheGreat Naive.
The switch to DP will be even easier if/when DP-alt via USB-C becomes even more widespread in popularity.
That, and when sub $200 budget monitors, and TV's either come with that as a standard, or just a Displayport period instead of dual HDMI, and VGA or some combo of it.
I didn't know that was a thing ngl
I'm pretty sure that DP alt mode is widely used compared to HDMI alt mode. Yes, they exist for some reason.
@@abhinandhari7812 Yup almost all of the USB-C video in/out you see on devices today is currently DP-alt (and Thunderbolt is compatible with both DP and HDMI standards, which is probably why it’s so outrageously fucking expensive to implement)
They already are coming with DP
Wow, I had no idea HDMI was like this. I was hesitant to swtich to DP at first, but now I'm glad I did.
A closed standard is only good for throwing in the garbage.
to a close source garbage, otherwise standard's creator could sue it because "we can see their standard"
@@cylian91 I would like to suggest a shredder, just forget that it existed altogether
@@dimitar.bogdanov nan they can still sue the piece of shredded standard
@@bengtakevarg wtf are you talking about ? The HDMI forum doesn't want their protocol to leak, so AMD can't legally implement it inside their driver. They were an attempt to make a binary blob that managed all HDMI stiff but the HDMI forum refused it. This has nothing to do with AMD paying.
@@cylian91 thats interesting, i must have missed that part that they wanted to implement a proprietery blob. If thats true the amd driver would not be open source any more. That means that radeon will never ever get hdmi 2.1. Couldnt radeon take the same open source driver, include a proprietery blob and close source it? Amd is calculating cost of maintaining hdmi support for linux and not just licesing fees but if u are correct that is not an option even if amd wanted. However i will return my gimped radeon card and get nvidia as i want more than 60hz in 2024 so the whole discussion is useless and i have to satisfy with nvidia!
Steam Hardware survey could add display technology. They currently record resolution and number of monitors, so adding DP/HDMI and version would be pretty easy.
While I think that would be a good idea, I think GPUs don't actually expose "what type of port is this monitor hooked up via", which would make it hard for Steam to collect accurate data. I mean, they could ask the user, but then they have to assume the user is correct.
@@MichelleGenderbendM It's reported at the hardware level, I have no idea on Windows if that information can be collected by a non-admin program. On Linux you can invoke xrandr or similar programs, which report something like "eDP-1 connected primary" (or slightly different for standard DP and HDMI).
@@yellingintothewind I see, I wasn't aware. Thank you for informing me.
That said, I don't know of a way to tell that info on Windows, even with administrative permission. So I'm not sure if the information would be skewed.
@@MichelleGenderbendMYou certainly wouldn't want to implement it only on one platform, so if you can't get the info on windows that would be an issue.
At a glance, it looks like the Win32_DesktopMonitor class available from the windows API might expose the information, but my knowledge of window's internals isn't enough to verify and stack overflow doesn't appear to have it easily either.
As Gabe Newell has pointed out "Piracy is an issue of service, not price."
If people find piracy a better experience than paying money, *YOU ARE FAILING.*
It would be very nice if I could get a 75" 4K LCD with a DP connector, but that doesn't look like it's in the cards.
I don't like steam because I like owning stuff though. Piracy is one of the best ways nowadays to get a DRM-free copy of something.
@@andreivaughn1468 you dont own the disk you buy either
technically just like online media
"you simply have a licence to use it"
if u owned it
u could legally make copies and sell them
and in fairness, steam actually tries to accommodate users pretty hard here
its only really theoretical that steam could take stuff
in real life, they probably cannot do it
legally they sold it to u, taking that away
is immediate grounds for a class action
steam bends over backwards to let people keep games
even unlisted games can be kept, bought, downloaded and played
not to mention whatevers downloaded
is kept playable even in the event steam totally shuts down
edit: i dont mean like u turn the softwear off
i mean like if overnight the company exploded
the games are kept with u and working
u just may not be able to download again
if the servers were taken down
@@andreivaughn1468 Yeah, in terms of gaming you basically have two options now, gog and piracy.
@@YagamiKou even if you don't own it, at least they can't take it unless they literally break into your home. Digital licenses suck.
@Akab modern games dont fit in cds, when you introduce the disk it downloads the files, the disk is useless without the net and the disk only contains the license
HDMI had the advantage early on of being "DVI-D with a different plug" (I know not *really* but for most practical purposes, a passive adaptor was enough). So it got that grandfathered-in low-friction entry to the computer world that DP did not enjoy.
Amazon will not allow you to stream HD content on PC, even with HDCP. I purchased the same film 3 times and could not watch it in HD because of such restrictions across platforms. I will never forgive nor forget HDCP and the whole damn consortium for their failures.
It is the digital equivalent of artillery shelling the high way to stop a speeding car. You MIGHT stop the speeding vehicle, but you've also completely destroyed the usability for your legal users.
It's like putting a breathalyzer in every vehicle on the CHANCE someone could use it to drunkenly drive.
It's like putting performance crippling DRM in your games.
Do not treat your PAYING CUSTOMERS like THIEVES.
Edit: To clarify, I purchased it on 3 separate services trying to find one that would let me play it in HD. That was more my point; that multiple services did this to me.
Works fine for me, you just have to use chrome, Firefox doesn't worm
I wouldn't have bought the same movie 3 times. After the first purchase, I would pirate it in an open format if you're having so much trouble playing the movie you bought.
Iirc Edge allows you to watch Amazon Prime Video in HD while Chrome won't
If they already treat you like a thief why not just take what they already act like you already stole?
Buying the movie again 2 more times sends them the message that it is more than ok for them to do that (to them it makes it look like you actually love it lol), regardless of your actual opinion. Corps love to profit off of ignorance and stupidity.
3 times? I hope you claimed some refunds at least.
I don't understand why we have to depend on proprietary drivers in the first place.
This is why Display Port is king 100% Open with no royalty needed, I dont understand why HDMI is the default on consumer electronic devices, I would much rather use Display Port as iv always found its a better connector as a whole that just has always felt like a better build.
It's because of copy protection.
Copy protection should be illegal. My consumer rights are more important than some large corporation inconveniencing me under the guise of protecting their millions (drm doesn't give them any more money).
DRM is there not to protect the content, but to control device manufacturers. "If you don't behave, you will lose the license to use HDMI."
It also serves to deter commercializing anything that works around official mechanisms because then you can be sued into the ground thanks to the DMCA.
Copy protection was paid by them for my convenience..
Well they never asked if I actually wanted it.
I'll just get a tool to bypass it.
@@chronossageDisplayPort supports HDPC no problem. So is not that.
HDMI Forum can just F#@% off already! As a Linux User, I thank thee for informing me of this Bullshit so I can stop using, supporting, recommending, and allowing me the opportunity to push HDMI out of my business completely! Because I can.
Why HDMI is prevailing on TVs - if I recall - is that it doesn't allow you to capture video. In other words, you can't rip movies via the cable like you could on the older technology. It was basically a play by Hollywood and they wouldn't allow you to have media unless it was HDMI and only HDMI. That knowledge is pretty old and I'm not 100% sure, but I do recall something like that from years and years ago.
Standards shouldn't cost royalties to implement, as a rule. We should have a different name for things that do.
We do... It's called proprietary bullshit.
@@The-OGRElmao
Yeah. The word is garbage.
It's a Tathar!
It shouldnt but here we are and radeon in linux is trash and it doesnt matter whoever is responsible! Amd will not offer a solution for us linux users that want 4k 120hz exept buy a dongle that might work if u are lucky, i was not. Amd doesnt want to spend money for the few linux users with tvs. Only choice for us is nvidia. Good thing nvidia is getting more of their stuff open sourced. Bye bye radeon and nvidia is the saviour 😢 do not like nvidia but if its the only choice there is not much to do.
At first I thought maybe HDMI would only truly become a real "standard" and made open if ISO standardizes it. But they'd probably bungle it up and only standardize the cable and not the driver. Just like PDF being an ISO standard but Adobe still holds PostScript for ransom and we had to create alternatives from scratch like Ghostscript. ISO and ANSI are awesome, the standards are amazing, like even the Parker G2 pen refill is an ISO standard. There aren't competing standards of shipping containers with incompatible proprietary cargo ships and monthly subscriptions, because of ISO. But they're not perfect unfortunately
I think the HDCP thing is more that back in HDMI's infancy, HDCP was over-promised to non-techy investors as some holy grail anti-piracy thing that would recoup revenue, they were sold on it, and now telling those same slightly-more-techy (but still not well-informed) investors that you wanna take it away would make them angry.
Same belief with Denuvo: I think people with money and without good insight were shown marketing graphs and attractive numbers and now the idea of taking those away is heresy regardless of how widely understood the tech hurts the end user experience enough that they're still losing money over it.
It’s technically considered a scam. But those investors doesn’t see it that way.
I mean, denuvo actually works. I'm still sad because a lot of games won't be preserved because of it. Also the only one who can hack denuvo is some schizo lunatic
@@darkbot081 There's a few people who can do it, they just have their niches. I'm not deep into the lore of it all, but it is strange to me how the knowledge of defeating it hasn't been proliferated more than this.
@@electricdoor People in a trade who have a skill dont like to share that skill with others and lose out on their chance to get up in the world.
Most of the jobs/money in the world are earned through nepotism, who you know and who you are related to and how well you are ingratiated with them. For those of us without families to fall back on, or those of us who had our friendships burned ,we won't share our way in life with others because its all we have left.
@@Rexhunterjthat's not true. People who crack DRM want to share how it's done. It's DRM after all. But sometimes they sit on it for a while. Wait until the broken DRM becomes wildly adopted before releasing the crack. Otherwise the game if game and mouse is lost. They can just keep making new DRM standards making the crack obsolete. But if you wait a few years for everyone to adopt a standard such as DVD or Blue Ray it becomes very hard for them to just replace it with another standard. There's some guarding of trade secrets, but that's more on the DRM side than the cracking side. In general, things don't get cracked because the people who have the skills to do it are busy working a job. Not enough people donate to the open source projects circumventing DRM which forces developers to to spend time on it. It's really just basic supply and demand incentives at work
It's kinda weird to me that modern tvs don't include even one display port. I can get with VGA or DVI, but not Display Port
The bit about piracy has little to do with HDCP and other copy protection. At most, HDCP introduces minor delays in how long it takes for a movie to get ripped and distributed. The reason we don't want to help family members pirate things is because it's more hassle than it's worth.
Steam and Netflix have proven that piracy is largely a service/distribution issue.
I have friends too lazy to put a dvd I loan them in a dvd player to watch a great series. They only watch if it's on streaming. There are certainly a number of people out there who will only use the most convenient way of consuming media.
@@gamechannel1271people actually buy discs of series?
That's why I think piracy as a whole will be dead in 10 or 20 years.
@@negirno Piracy (as in copyright infringement) was existing since forever. And here we see streaming service fragmentation.
@@negirno probably not
streaming and gaming services
are in the practice of buying rights
to prevent sales on other platforms
it is a massive pain in the ass to the end user
as long as buying rights is the standard
piracy will continue
why would i go out of my way to buy a second or third subscription
or download a second or third launcher
get bent, ima pirate everything i cant see on my normal platforms
if another platform shows itself to be better
ill move, but right now its a shit show
the system needs some tweaks
would u expect HDMI cables to only be sold at 1 store?
not just 1 store in ur city
*just 1 on earth* 😂
its trash
While DVI couldn't receive audio on the receiving end, AMD was transmitting audio over DVI which you could then use a passive adapter to convert to an HDMI signal as far back as the Radeon HD3xxx series. Surely if they could send audio, with some creative implementation, it could've received audio signal.
Since the audio is just stuffed in the vertical blanking interval of the video signal it's all up to the receiving end what it wants to do with it regardless of what plug the cable terminates to.
Last time I bought a monitor (2019) there were two listings for the model I bought. One shipped with an HDMI cable and one shipped with a display port cable. I don't think they even need market surveys to know what cable their customers prefer.
yea, but monitor still has both ports, so you are still paying for hdmi lisence, and making 2 versions of the same monitor for suvey reason would be really expensive))
if mentioned, you pay for fees if you want hdmi mb then the masses would think it through, i thought hdmi was a standard without its issues like all the others, i was innocent, now i know it is bad for innovation.
HDMI?
regarding the last point about HDCP, the high quality rips usually grab the video even before it gets encoded as HDCP, they grab the compressed video stream directly from the disc or streaming service before it's even decoded enough to transmit over HDMI
Hopefully the eu does something about this
Yeah get rid of Linux
EU hasn't done anything about a war at their doorstep, I wouldn't be too hopeful
@@sunbleachedangelother than funding, training, aid and infrastructure what can they do to a nation that its leader actively threatens nuclear retaliation if international forces intervene?
The last thing you want to do is rely on the EU for decisions. Wont be long until a bonehead is in charge of directives after gaining public trust and ends up fucking everything
@@malfaroangel3896 SteamOS and MacOS were built on Linux
I think the thing that kills HDMI might be DP over USB-c. with USB-c becoming the one true standard, we can finally eliminate the old HDMI.
At least in the US, buying the thing and ripping it for personal use is 100% legal and not prosecutable.
It's another reason companies have really heavily pushed for the removal of physical media because if you don't have a physical thing to get the data off of, they can control it and remove your use of it (or change it to meet modern sensibilities) because you then don't actually "own" it according to what we've classically understood as "owning" something!
ok, so technically this depends. if ripping it includes "breaking DRM" however that is legally defined, the breaking the DRM part itself, IS illegal. You aren't allowed to do that. HDCP and disc encryption for bluray/dvd would count as DRM, however it seems that VLCs implementation for DVDs doesnt count as breaking DRM.
Shits a mess, we need better laws.
@@killingtimeitselfVLC's developed in France. There is no DMCA in France and the French have very different views on copyright as it pertains to software. That's why VLC works so much better than other alternatives and it does not rely on the user getting all sorts of codecs from other sources. The laws France make it possible. VLC is an example of how good all our software could be if it was not shackled by the garbage fire that is not our current copyright and patent systems.
@@FurlugeTo my knowledge, the primary reason VLC hasnt been hit is because it technically doesn't crack the DRM, it just manages to spoof it. Which is apparently ok. Although french laws could definitely be it.
Yeah. These days, in order to rip something, you have to use a camera.
@@me-myself-i787 I'll start to care when there's something worth watching
Just one small corection, at 15:55 they say hdmi did have audio, where as DVI didn't - I think that isn't true, I distinctly remember that it did, because at the time there were separate types of DVI connectors, and my GPU had a DVI connector which was different to the one on my monitor, and my cable would plug into the monitor but not in the GPU, i did some research then, and figured out that the GPU's dvi port had additional pins for audio which prevented the cable from plugging in, ultimately I had to buy an adapter from DVI with audio to one without, and the adapter basically also had a 3.5mm - audio out jack, so I guess the additional pins were just analog audio. So it was a bit of a mess, but DVI did have audio.
I was reading change notes of my Debian upgrade. There was thanks to Linux Tech Tips. Thanks for contributing to Debian!
May i ask what they contributed? I'm really curious
Yeah bumping this
Probably some money because devs need to eat and feel appreciated too.
Linux Tech Tips?
I'm looking at the Debian 13 release notes, and don't see it, please tell us, and I don't have the latest upgrade notes, as I'm currently on Arch based Manjaro Gnome.
Wish modern gaming consoles used DP.
We would need to get more displays to use it as well.
Does DP support audio? Like Atmos / DTS:X not compressed stereo?
Either way TVs, AVRs, soundbars all don't have DP ports so probably won't happen...
@@FireStormUnleashed Yes Displayport 1.4 does support Atmos, and DTS:X for audio, the only real advantages HDMI 2.1 has vs. Displayport 1.4 is a slight higher bitrate at 48Gbps vs. 32.4Gbps meaning HDMI has Dynamic HDR, and DisplayPort has Static HDR, no ethernet over Displayport(I've personally never ran into a device that used the ethernet function of HDMI anyway, and I don't think they are very common), and on the audio side eARC on HDMI. Otherwise with the right displays, cables, etc.. they can both do 4K 120Hz, and 8K 60Hz. output.
@@CommodoreFan64 oh interesting, good to know, thanks!
Personally I would still go for higher bitrate and definitely eArc, but that seems like an easy fix for a new version of DP to include.
Still, consumer electronics like TVs and AVRs probably stick with HDMI for the foreseeable future so in the living room HDMI is here to stay. PCs on the other hand as far as I can tell already prioritise DP, that trend will probably continue.
@@CommodoreFan64and there is DisplayPort 2.0+ lurking, too.
if you want TVs to adopt DisplayPort, the only thing you REALLY need is a major gaming console that uses DisplayPort EXCLUSIVELY.
just like how Blu-ray caught on because PS3 came with BR playback built-in.
also, regarding DVI not supporting audio, SOME graphics cards actually DID output audio over DVI, if they came with a DVI to HDMI converter (which i have seen more than once).
Yeah, my previous card and monitor both had DVI and could run audio through DVI. Works great!
the other big issue with HDMI, is that they seemed to see how USB does their various standards in terms of what features go where and whether it's required or not and were like "oh yeah, i like that, lets do that too" and so now, just like how you can have usb c cables that all support different parts of the standard, you can have multiple hdmi "2.1" cables that all support different parts of the spec
like, wtf hdmi forum, did you not see the fact that literally not a single person liked what USB did with any of their shit?
2:11 - "The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from." Been saying THAT for years.
"Vote with your wallet" - Sure, show me the TV or graphics card or games console or other device that has an output with no HDMI.
Lenovo ThinkPad T520. DP and VGA...
Every single workstation GPU has been DP only for years now, both Nvidia Quadro and AMD Firepro
@kornaros96 thinkpad w540/1, t440p, and t450s all have DP/VGA as their default outputs, and it's glorious
My Asrock Challenger AMD RX6650XT 8GB GPU has 3 DP ports, and only 1 HDMI, and it's a fairly common GPU.
@@CommodoreFan64 Same with my XFX 6700. I think most of AMD's cards have that 3DP + 1 HDMI setup now, and even have had that for years and this kinda just shows the reason for it.
we need to legally fight this enshittification trend in courts man. it's pervasive in games, cables, phones, politics, bodily autonomy rights, cars, it's EVERYWHERE.
Capitalism is going in this weird direction where it doesn't want people to OWN or USE things. Whether they belong to the company or not.
WE NEED TO FIGHT THIS IN THE COURTS. OTHERWISE IT'S JUST GOING TO GET WORSE.
Because it would all be SO much better if we had socialism, eh comrade? Then the government would tell us all exactly what we could and could not use, and the government never gets anything wrong, do they? JSMDH!
@kirkmooneyham Bruh, they're not talking about socialism, they aren't tapking about any alternative, they are talking about CAPITALISM which is the system we currently live in and that's true. We reached a step where consumerism isn't enough for wages as the market is expanding itself in the living and access rights.
And also, for once, socialism isn't about the state owning everything.
I've been in meetings where I'll call something "The Ethernet Jack", and people will go off that it's the wrong name, yada yada yada. Then when it actually matters, as in v1.0, 2.0 or 3.3, which have VERY different and critical breaking distinctions, they'll almost always say (paraphrased): "We're wasting too much time clarifying, let's just move on".
In fact, just ~1 hour ago, I got the designs for something that were wrong! The design was completely flawed, and couldn't be integrated until a modification was made. That modification was waved off the discussion last week. The person who waved it off, was someone deciding to be pedantic about the name of a window in Azure, that really, really didn't matter, and figured getting that window named correctly was so important, the meeting had to stop until it was determined.
I just spent ~20 minutes explaining why I needed the change to the design made, and they tried to fight back the entire time, until I refused to integrate it.
F close source, embrace open source (and displayport)
4:05 Interesting, my experience is a complete opposite, HDMI tends to random black screens while DP runs flawlessly.
I haven't even had a random black screen in my experience, regardless of the connector
Same
@@tomppeli. I have with HDMI - several computers, several monitors, several different cables.
DP for me just works. Weird, but true.
@@sysbofh bro walked under a ladder and broke a mirror
@@JacqueBibblequip Twice!
1:50 i remember why we create standards... it's in xkcd 927.
Someone from Linux foundation should check if HDMI forum uses any linux based software and prohibit use of it as counter measure but i dont think that is in the GPL.That would be fair in this case.
If I'm not wrong, that only work if the other party sue first. The GPL revocation is retaliatory terms.
@@bltzcstrnxAlso, it only applies if they sue for patent infringement as a result of someone using a piece of GPL-licenced software. Even then, it only applies if the person suing used the same piece of software themselves and as a result agreed to the licence.
Hdmi had sound on the same connector that's why it was replacement for earlier connectors
To my knowledge there's no affordable large OLEDs that use DP. I paid about $1100 for a 55" LG C1 2 years ago, and I don't see monitors competing anytime soon. What a shame.
@@bengtakevarg please, unless you absolutely *need* HDMI 2.1 or CUDA or something else nvidia-exclusive, don't get nvidia. the drivers on linux are such a pain, and no i'm not just talking about the installation. Also it's not about AMD not wanting to pay license fees, did you even watch the video.
@@somenameidk5278Nvidia is improving, open source kernal modules and explicit sync in the 560 driver
12:50 If you're BenQ, you know how by monitoring buying preferences. The increase in sales or stock turnover of a specific model of monitor with X support, along with consumer searches on marketplaces, SEO, etc.
DisplayPort monitor going black - that is annoying, I suffered for ages... but the fix seems to be a better spec (and quality) cable to match the monitor. I was having issues as I grabbed a random DisplayPort cable which I brought off eBay and kept for years so the spec of the cable didn't match the spec of the monitor. Would be nice if the version number was generally written on the cables!
Same, I did have issues. But ever since I have a display with 5120*2160 resolution (at 60-75hz), I found, that Club3D cables are the best (thanks to Wendel from Level1Tech).
14:52 As somebody who uses old monitors without HDMI (bought second hand for _real_ cheap, but originally produced in 2009), one of the _big_ benefits of HDMI over DVI/VGA is just how much easier the damn thing is to plug in when you can't see the port! It's always such a PITA when I need to unplug those displays for any reason.
Those displays do actually have DisplayPort on them though, even though no HDMI! But also I'm a laptop user not a PC user so rarely do you have DisplayPort on laptops, and my dock also only has 1xHDMI and 1xDVI.
Speaking of using a laptop to connect to multiple screens, I'm once again asking for an update on the modern state of eGPUs! Would love to be able to plug into a somewhat decent graphics card when at my desk yet still be able to enjoy the benefits of a thin-and-light laptop when I'm _not_ at my desk, as I'm a big fan of couch sitting or working from the library when I'm not doing something demanding. Before I buy a decent third monitor to become my main monitor (and retiring current main monitor to side monitor status), would love to know what a difference using an eGPU makes over plugging in to integrated graphics. Would be interested both for regular non-graphics based productivity (can you get decent frame rates when many high-res monitors for the sake of motion fluidity when scrolling through documents? How many pixels do you have to be driving before regular scrolling through documentation becomes a juddery mess?) as well as for gaming on The Main Monitor, stretching from casual games like Minecraft (especially modded Minecraft), Fortnight, and Rocket League, to mid-tier (in terms of graphics) titles from last gen consoles, to the new stuff coming out for this current gen of consoles that can't be played on my old PS4 😅
And, of course, using both AMD _and_ Intel integrated graphics for your controls (hey I wonder if *cough Framework* there was a laptop out there *cough Framework* that could control for all variables other than CPU platform *cough Framework*) and testing graphics cards in the enclosure from all three major brands, and across several generations where applicable (when's Battlemage coming out again?). Eg, can a second hand 2080 in an eGPU enclosure allow me to play modern titles at reasonable (60FPS or higher) framerates when docked to my reasonably CPU-powerful laptop? If you need to control for something when choosing cards, maybe total price of second hand graphics card + enclosure vs a brand new GPU of the same price? Or alternatively, going up the tiers in a set generation to see how the bottleneck of thunderbolt affects performance between lower tier (eg 3060) and higher tier (eg 3090) cards, though again also checking a sample from all three graphics brands.
Would also be interesting to see if you can get more CPU performance out of a laptop with integrated graphics because the iGPU doesn't have to run and add extra heat to both the die and the overall enclosure! As a software engineer, even if I don't need it for graphics reasons, can running my external monitors via eGPU (with laptop screen either on or off) lower the heat within the laptop enough in my laptop to compile my code faster? Or build a docker container faster? On my old work laptop (Intel Mac), docker was an absolute _killer_ when it came to heat. And even when not running anything intensive (because I'm doing the "staring at code trying to figure out bug" part of my job) the laptop still got toasty if I plugged in my old third monitor to see what Spotify was playing, or on the rare occasions I was working on frontend code and wanted to see the current output on a separate monitor from my code and docs. If the thermals from even a simple multi-monitor graphics demand can be moved into an external unit, will that allow the normal CPU part of the CPU to perform better for longer?
...this went on a massive tangent to the original thought bubble that made me pause to comment 😅 I need to figure out at some point where that thread on the forum is for video ideas!
The hand shaking issue with Display Port Linus is on about has only ever happed to me inside Windows on Linux & even BSD its never once come up as an issue but have faced this in Windows plenty of times but you can normally fix this issue in Windows if use the key combo "Windows Key + Ctrl + Shift + B" that will tell windows to restart the GPU driver and all the displays should be working correctly at that point, but I only found out about that about 2 years ago before that I would have to normally try unplugging and replunging in to another port or hard reset the computer.
Yop mi experience exactly on DP under Linux, no issues ever... so it is driver issue not a standard issue
Do not ever forget what the "H" in "HDMI" means. It was a step back for the computing industry. Before HDMI, there were many GPUs and monitors with greater than 1920×1080 resolution. I even had a VGA analogue monitor with higher resolution.
Once HDMI became popular, it became impossible to find a monitor with greater than FHD resolution.
That being said, I am yet to buy a GPU without DP and/or DVI.
Wtf, rent-seeking grifters
The entire world culture right now is rent seeking.
That's Linus and Luke's job
it's not rent seeking, lol.
@@armenkaprelian subscription/ rent there are similarities for certain
@@everythingponyThey hated him because he told the TRUTH
17:55 not to mention R4 could play music and video and for some it was their only device to do so.
Still waiting for linus to do an all USB C set up visual and everthing
I'm betting they are going to eventually kill their own standard through control-freak tendencies and manufacturers switch to a mix of Displayport and USB.
ive taught my mom how to pirate movies, an android tv box with stremio and some addons installed, it's dead simple
Do you need VPN for real debrid
@@juicycs no, never had to use one
This is the way 😂 sonarr and trakt is truly nice as for grabbing drm free content from before 1950s, do not use it for new stuff as it is illegal and bad, ok!
And it works really well. Golden age of pirating rn.
Kinda crazy that the EU cracked down on apple over lightning, but didn’t go after the HDMI forum over shit like this.
They should. They're one of the few organisations that could actually crack down on this nonsense. Force the forum to open-source everything about HDMI or be prohibited from selling in the EU.
@@Roxor128agreed..
no tux no bux
Good comment. I'm writing this reply so that I may like my own comment and have the satisfaction of pressing the like button twice. One at the exact location of your comment, and the other in a very close proximity. One day these two comments will merge, as all things do, and your total number of likes will increase. Blessed be.
I like how we pay double or even triple on hdmi: for a display manufacturer, for a laptop manufacturer and for a windows developer. Thanks, standards!
HDMI and DP reminds me of the pre OBD2 port era in vehicles.
We really do just need only displayport, it would be nice if they fixed the stupid power signal issue, that's the thing that causes the blank displays. But continuously having to swap between hdmi and displayport as i go from motherboard to gpu, or tv to monitor, is SO frustrating. It seems like there is ALWAYS a new cable/adapter/connector that i need to buy, even though i have like 10 hdmi cbales.
11:18 But you could call it "HDMI-compatible cable" or "Cable with HDMI compatibility", probably.
Call the EU! Get them on it!
Hahaha so true one complaint and then the EU just fines them and makes a new law 🤣
@@bobcom21i believe it. literally what they've been doing for the past few years
I don't think the EU is going to do something.
This is not about _ensuring competition_ like it was with Apple/USB-C but instead it is about _protecting "intellectual property"_ and wrt. to this topic, the EU is 1000% on the side of HDMI.
@@snygg1993 What intelectual property when I want to see my open source software and personal videos in 4K @ 120 FPS?
@@Daniel-wn5ye The "intellectual property" of the HDMI specification.
It would be more consumer-friendly if the HDMI forum just had a rolling model where the most current standard was only for institutions paying into the standard under closed license, while making every past standard open license. Upstart OEMs and the open source community could keep pace one revision behind, while bleeding edge enthusiasts and the OEMs that target them subsidize ongoing improvements. Also creates incentive for regular iteration and improvement upon the standard if closed licenses are timeboxed to eventually become open licenses.
The GPU in my main workstation has 4 Mini-DP ports, and nothing else. So there, HDMI Forum.
Funnily enough: MagSafe is now pretty much open as Qi2, and Thunderbolt is now mostly USB4. Apple opened up when it comes to _at least_ protocols.
I recently switched to DP because the HDMI port on my display is getting flaky. random display blanks for 3-4 seconds at a time. Resolved with the DP connection.
When new laptops suddenly dropped vga port and i had to get HDMI to VGA dongle which worked with one projector or monitor but didn't work on another. Now we can't use ports we paid for. Damn
Can't remember last time I used HDMI, DP has been nothing but relyable for me.
Maybe I’m starting to understand the quote « Ubisoft goes Steamworks bye bye, always on DRM. » It’s always a DRM problem
The MSI monitor I bought last year only had a DP cable in the box. Which is why I now use DP with my AMD card and MX Linux. Did not know this HDMI issue existed 😊
Maybe LTT Labs can do some tests and stuff with DisplayPort to try to uncover some of the problems Luke brought up.
Luke reads xkcd, obviously...
Or he just happened to see what is probably one of the top 5 most reposted xkcd panels somewhere.
Although he does strike me as the sort of person to check xkcd regularly.
The friction point of HDCP preventing is STILL there even if you remove HDCP from existence.
Just the work it takes to record if you do it that way, encode it properly, storage and uploading is enough hassle to get to the same result, and these guys you can't stop, they will just fight you harder if you try.
And downloading? Doesn't matter or change, still the same friction and skill ceiling as always, with no effect from HDCP as it is already gone at this point anyway.
One thing to note is that I've heard some private pirating sites/forums require contributions so people do rip to get virtual credits or just maintain membership depending on how they work.
Ripperstore did this before shutting down due to EAC
As a consumer, I don't really GAF if I'm plugging in to an HDMI or a DisplayPort but I only want _ONE._ Doesn't matter if it's a monitor or a television or a game console or a PC or a streaming box, etc. I only want a single cable type and don't want to futz around with adapters, dongles, break out boxes, or wires that have different plugs on each end.
To a user, it doesn't matter what the sauce or reason behind the port is, they just want it to work.
I work in the pro IT-AV space and the amount of dominance HDMI has is frustrating. Especially since almost all OEM PCs do not ship with more than one HDMI, if at all. Matrix switches, HDBT transceivers, projectors, TVs, everything has HDMI, and there are times when it makes my life harder. It's not all downsides, it's good to have a largely unanimous standard, but the strife with adapting computers into such an environment, consistently, is a thorn in my side.
Is SDI completely dead by now?
That was the REAL pro single-cable digital AV standard.
Whilst being an avid Linux supporter, I have found it to be completely unusable from a health perspective. Long term use (across different distros / hardware platforms) lead to severe eye strain / headache. Whatever issues there are have not been resolved for many years. This is really a shame as Linux really is a worthy tool especially in the production / productivity environment + legacy gaming.
I think it will be a super long time before TV manufacturers do away with HDMI ports, but I can easily see monitor manufacturers experimenting with no-HDMI SKUs for some of their units.
And it IS going to be crap because Linux and Nvidia don't jive together without a headache 9/10 times
TIL hdmi isn't an open standard. When will the world learn closed standards always always always backfire?
My biggest problem is there aren't any capture cards with DisplayPort input. When I'm streaming, I need to use HDMI but my monitor doesn't support above 60Hz with HDMI input. When I'm just playing games and not streaming, I have to switch to my DP output so I can get 144Hz.
HDMI was useful from the get-go with GPUs. Not only was it smaller, it carried audio which DVI did not do.
This is a certified Nintendont moment
I love Nintendont. It plays Gamecube games so well.
I hope they sue in the EU.
the new HDMi handshake is just a fist in the balls for no reason.
Not me having like 12 movies downloading from the Pirate Bay as I watch this lol
And here I sit with three display to VGA adapters. Maybe I should upgrade my monitors
Na if it ain't broke, or you didn't get for a really good deal/free, and does what it needs to do for ya, then don't worry about it, at least that's my motto.
Also still rocking CRTs.
Upgrade when they break I say lmao, I'm using a 2k monitor from 2005 right now.
(Unless you really want new features like high hz and oled stuff)
hdmi 1.0 was released in 2002 it is currently 2024 and we are on hdmi 2.1 , the hdmi group has just been cashing in a free check and doing absolute nothing
I know Pirate's Bay changed owners a few times, but what happened that makes it inherently unsafe now?
Correction, PB transcended the original creators. It is an entity all on its own now without any owners. It is mirrored on so many different servers and web domains that it has become the mythical hydra.
PB has always been unsafe. That's just how the internet has always been. Always practice good operational security.
@@heroslippy6666 No that's how it was before, but something changed about 4 years ago that made it a lost cause for a lot of people. But I can't remember what it was.
@@edouarddubois9402 I haven't noticed anything unusual. The only thing that could make it "bad" would be better alternatives coming into existence. Just use good operational security as with everything on the internet and you'll be fine.
Remember it is not owned and cannot be owned by any single person at this point.
@@edouarddubois9402 its safe if you don't download programs or formats that execute commands, most of the programs in PB are likely modified for malicious purposes.
They removed comments. Previously you would know if a download is bad by looking at the comments. Without them, realistically, nothing stops somebody from claiming the download is some new Marvel movie 4K HDR rip while actually being Daisy's Destruction. By the time you realize, it's already downloaded and you already desperately need that unsee button and likely nuke your entire PC.
With comments someone will say that it's not what it claims to be.
Honestly the biggest question I have is WHO would reverse engineer the 2.1 graphics card part of the HDMI spec? The other graphics card manufacturers? The nonexistent ones that then want to get sued by the HDMI foundation for infringing on patents?
lol I fail to see how hdmi can take such a bold stance here when the vast majority of both hardware and software companies have created such a negative space that I actually prefer to avoid them entirely. Games are mostly trash gamba apps with less safegaurds and customer protections than actual casinos. Damn near every single hardware/software company insists on forcing their will on what used to be considered customers via a 50+ page EULA. Unreasonable pricing has become pretty common place and often also requires some sort of additional cost after the initial purchase. They all desperately want to steal your personal data without your consent and without paying you for it, then sell it off to the highest bidder AND force you to watch/listen to adds as though everything else they have done wasn't already disrespectful enough.
This can't be tolerated. A standard must be open, or we must switch to a new standard
A standard video output shouldn't be trademarked at all
I have always the impression there is a conspiracy to not lift up Linux in the marked how it should be. For games, multimedia, ...
Yeah the conspiracy is that Linux is free
Where I work, my main issue is DP cable length. Because of the need to run the cables through cable management for the adjustable desks, I need 15ft of cable for the first monitor, and regularly need multi display connections. HDMI connections usually are more reliable at long lengths.
why cant we just use usb at this point?
Not fast enough
@@user9267 if its fast enough to run an Egpu its fast enough to run a monitor. Im talking about usb4 and thunderbolt not just any ole usb.
@@user9267USB is faster than streaming, and streaming services are able to play video fine.
And latency isn't too high, either.
And USB C ports are pieces of shit. Sucks as a phone charging port, can't imagine it would excel at anything else
@user9267 current USB-A versions already got enough bitrate to display high-definition videos. And Thunderbolt ports got dedicated video output.
My local computer store rep called gigabyte 'those heathens' for only including an HDMI cord with the monitor and I approved of that message
Common HDMI L. DisplayPort gang rise up.