The emotion chip was a really bad idea for this character. Data was always best as a metaphor for neural divergent people, like those with autism. Data should have slowly discovered that although he does not have emotions quite the same as human beings, he still has a type of emotion that he experiences in his own unique way. There were so many hints at him developing his own emotional understanding through the series. His keeping of the hologram of Lt Yar, and his treasuring of their romantic encounter, his pet cat and the way he cared deeply for Spot, his sense of absence in his programing (aka life) when people died or left. He did have emotion, but in a neural divergent manner. Data's realization of this should have occurred like those with Asperger's coming to understand other peoples emotions and their own unique ones that are different in many ways from the way neural typical people experience emotion. Also Data should have been recast, like the recasting of Dr.Who. Data should have periodically decided to adopt a new persona, including outward looks and changes to his personality programming, in an attempt to experience and grow himself further. this way the part could continue even when a single actor no longer wants to or can perform the role.
The fact that Data was totally going to end him gives me no small amount of joy. Joy because unlike a human, his decision was not made out of rage, but purely out of reasoning.
@@MrBawdry I have not seen this episode in years and barely remember it. Thank you very much. By the way the guy who's playing the villain is probably a nice guy but he has played so many villains. He just seems like a total sleaze.
"Mr. O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge." "Yes. He murdered one person and was threatening to murder more, so I was about to kill the shit out of him, sir" "Very good Mr. Data."
Fajo's great mistake was assuming that "a fundamental respect for all life" meant that Data could not harm any life, and thus he could not kill Fajo. And because of that assumption, he unwittingly manufactured the situation in which Data COULD kill him. Data being faced with someone who had just killed and would kill again just to satisfy his own petty whims made the decision relatively easy(though Data still hesitated for a moment). Data's fundamental respect for all life mandated that, in the absence of all other alternatives, Fajo had to die in order to protect all the others he would inevitably kill otherwise.
Datas hesitation could be seen as his humanity, he may not feel but he won’t kill instantly due to an analysis. Also «for an android that is nearly an eternity». So he probably contemplated very hard and made the «right» choice out of the ones he had.
There had been one situation before in which such a choice potentially presented itself: Armus. Noting that if he had escaped, he would no doubt harm whoever he wished, without second thought. And because of the great sadism and cruelty exhibited towards others, he believed destroying Armus was a viable alternative. So he is not beyond taking a life when absolutely necessary. But the situation has to be evaluated quickly, and no other viable options known or available.
@@grapes008 Lore would quite easily have broken out, murdered all of Fajo's crew quickly and efficiently, and have tortured Fajo before finally killing him. Then of course he'd take the ship.
Saul Rubinek did such great work playing Fajo. He just nailed the part. His overabundance of malicious emotion complimented Data's passionless demeanor so well.
Notice how many tics and facial micro-expressions Brent Spiner performs during the whole of Fajo's gloat over Data's supposed lack of emotion and inability to feel rage.
@@carmelopappalardo8477 Only if you include the Zeroth Law (a robot may not harm humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm), an implied law which most robots could not formulate. Otherwise, the First Law comes into play. Only one of Asimov's robots--R. Daneel Olivaw--could follow the Zeroth law and it took him millennia to understand it enough to follow it. (The character in Asimov's short stories is not known for certain to have been a robot; Dr. Calvin strongly suspects it, but she's in the minority.) Data's positronic brain is highly advanced and capable of more than the simple brains portrayed in most of Asimov's works. He may have made the necessary jump, though other comments have pointed out that there were certainly other means of subduing Fajo, or even just killing him quickly and painlessly. Data could have snapped his neck or even just punched him so hard that he would immediately lose consciousness and die before he could feel anything. We got the potential use of the Varon-T disruptor for dramatic effect.
My no-prize explaination for this is that Data's creator lied. Data has an emotional system. It's just programmed differently. Soong did say that the only difference between Data and Lore was a bit of programming.
Data's ethical subroutines do allow for murder. He was going to kill many, his death was only 1. Killing him would save many. It's the most logical thing to do.
It's not murder though, is it? Fighting or killing to prevent murder or enslavement is not murder. Further, as an officer of the Federation, Data would have ethical obligations to enforce the peace, which again means not murder.
@@PaulfromChicago firing a weapon on an unarmed person is also always unlawful. Of course, this is an incredibly specific situation and I don't imagine any court finding you guilty... But then data represents the federation. Data could definitely have found another way out of that room and to safety - he's the smartest person in almost any room he's in. Justified homicide is what I think they'd usually call a crime like Data's. Not encouraged but not worth punishing, either.
It's not murder. Murder is taking another life without acceptable justification. If someone gives you an ultimatum that either you kill them or they will kill others (there was also the third option of giving in to Fajo's demands but that wouldn't prevent him from killing more people)... ...and your objective is to prevent more deaths ("I cannot permit this to continue.")... ...and you have clear evidence that they will kill because they just did it in front of you... ...and you already tried stopping them with words... ...and you have no other means of preventing them from killing further (Data couldn't incapacitate Fajo with a lethal-only disruptor)... ...then you likely have no choice but to kill them. Data has this justification and also the obligations of a Starfleet officer.
@@feathersigil2048 Fajo ditched his disruptor, he was unarmed. Personally that wouldn't make a difference to me, but Data could have knocked Fajo unconscious. Without the disruptor it's one ordinary man with no combat training (and maybe a couple of his goons) against an android who bends scifi steel bars without effort. He could have taken a hundred Fajos hand to hand. He was standing right next to a transport he could have used to deliver him to the authorities. He made a choice: to stop Fajo the surest way he knew how, no chance for any tricks or last second reversals. In my opinion it was the right one, but it wasn't the only one.
@@angusmuir6180 You're right, Fajo threw away the disruptor. Transporting Fajo out or using the shuttle weren't guaranteed to work, so you're also right that Data had other options but under all the particular circumstances killing Fajo was the most sure way of protecting other lives.
“Something Vimes had learned as a young guard drifted up from memory. If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.” ― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms
They realized that something unusual happened and it didn't matter because they implicitly & explicitly trust one another. Those friendships are worth more than all the gems & precious minerals in the universe.
@@cordellshackelford4037 Even more than that, he just noted the possibility of something having happened during transport. He doesn't actually say that's what happened. And for all we know maybe he wasn't about to fire, after all he didn't make a motion to fire the same way Fajo did, with two hands. It's left completely ambiguous.
The only worse death was Lt Cmdr Remmick(sp) when he had that mother alien in him. Riker's phaser ripped his skin off then his head exploded. At least they used more green instead of red. 😏
Fajo was such a good villian. He's one of those villians that you just absolutely despise because the writing makes it personal for the viewer. It's the Umbridge effect. Love it when that happens.
Keep in mind that not only does Data's ethical program allow him to kill, he doesn't always make decisions purely based on logic. He isn't a Vulcan. In fact, in the episode "Data's Day", he remarks that he finds something lacking in the Vulcan's dedication to logic alone.
His decisions are purely based on logic. His programming, however, is not. Soong wrote his ethical programs. This will include Soong's emotional biases on what counts as "moral" for a machine. Data is, ultimately, his father's son in this regard. His programs likely also allow for data to partially make decisions based on the observed morals of those around him - Picard and the rest of the crew. He learns to assimilate by studying their moral values and adding them to his own. This is a process he does logically.
@@beingsshepherd But his servants are living beings x3 and by Faro's own words, those deaths would be on his hands, unless he killed Faro or complied, but Faro gave data no reason to think that compliance would truly stop him, after all Varia was compliant and he still pointed that disrupter at her (the 1st time)
The mistake that Fajo made was to announce that he will continue to injure/kill more people in case of continued restistance. That means that Data knew that more people would be killed anyways, with two options: 1. Data kills Fajo: One person dead 2. Data resists Fajo: Probably more than one dead over longer timescales. So he chose to kill Fajo because it's the better outcome.
The biggest mistake in my opinion was underestimated Data's program. They aren't walls that block him from doing this and that. They are more like guide lines to follow. His programming is very flexible and can be altered.
People keep making this argument, but it's not actually logical because it doesn't account for other possibilities. For one, Data could have easily subdued Fajo with his combat abilities that he loves to mention but never use. Secondly, you are ignoring the possibility that lives might depend on Fajo's survival, now lost due to his death (maybe only he knows the code to disarm a nuclear bomb in a city center?). Thirdly, casting down judgment is inherently an illogical course of action that depends on inferences and arbitrary notions of "justice" which is largely symbolic in nature and connected to cultural norms. Killing Fajo or subduing him would have the exact same outcome in this instance, so Data choosing to kill him was a choice Data made that is separated from logic. So what Data is doing here is actually a failure of logic and shows that Data is willing to supercede his own programming and cast down judgment, probably because Data is much more than just a simple android.
Watch Fajo from 0:56 to 1:03. You can tell that he's horrified by what he just did - but seconds later he's back to his typical cold, smug persona. What makes Fajo such a monstrous person is not that he has no conscience. It's that he *does*, but ruthlessly crushes it whenever it begins to assert itself.
Data: "You will surrender yourself to the authorities." Fajo: "Or what? You'll fire?" Data: "No, I will use my superior strength to restrain you then deliver you to them."
I love the idea that Data could have left him a cripple and shattered every extremity just to make it impossible for Fajo to either run or harm another… but his ethical subroutines decided such an act would be unreasonably cruel. That was what allowed him to pull the trigger. We know he’s fast and strong enough to do it, but he is held back by his programming. Soong designed him well.
@@Jarikraider Hard to cuff someone without being able to physically came near them due to the personal force field. Tho perhaps he could have thrown something heavy to 'disable' him.
The "Let's see if we can provoke him". exercise, taken on without considering the personal cost of success. It was briefly popular with Vulcan school children, and human teenagers on the federation colony Worf was raised on. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@@toasega autocorrect started acting weird a couple months ago. It started trying to use what I think is a Thai dictionary. Sometimes I don't notice it's "help". I've corrected it to "him".
I bet that was the first time Vasho killed by his reaction. But once he broke the barrier, he would have no issue doing it again. Data was doing the right thing.
@@poseidon5003 A reprogramming by data to force the shield in place so Fajo couldnt leave it or move around? Or dismantling of all disruptors/weapons aboard and a collective mutiny on Fajo's crew? As I understand it the fastest and most effective option was to shoot Fajo, the probable guarantee the shield wouldnt stop the shot was a gamble.
@@velnz5475 It wasn't that type of shield. The field emitted disrupted Data's positronic net. Data CAN"T get close to him. All of the disruptors were in a Data proof safe except for that one particular weapon. And Vajo obviously had some off screen control tech over the others.
This is one of my all-time favorite scenes in the entire ST franchise. Not only is Data learning to extrapolate the moral consequences of action (and inaction), he is learning to obfuscate (lie) in order to preserve himself. It demonstrates the evolution of his character to a more sentient/sapient state. Great stuff!
It was a great episode, but it had it's greatest influence on those who had followed the show and data's progression. An interesting and entertaining story but I doubt it would have had the same impression as a stand alone.
After 30+ years, this is still so watchable. Data's prevarication couched in an an innocuous observation. His emotions were expressed like those of a Vulcan. He has them, but he knows how to hide them.
Love this part. It reveals so much about Data's character and moral compass. Data is a consequentialist. By ending one life he can save many more, so he cannot allow the murders to continue. The greater good outweighs the individual act. Or maybe... possibly... Data did feel something. And maybe that's why he hid the truth.
This was my favorite scene ever in Next Generation. Data knew...he had to die. Perhaps something occurred in transport, sir. Nicolas Cage: ALAN! Why did you kill that girl, Alan?!? You're fired, Alan! 😆 Where did you find that disruptor, Warehouse 13?😄
"Mr. O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge." "Perhaps something occurred during transport." Not a lie ... directly ... though like a certain Vulcan we all know certainly capable of "omission." An so unlike Asimov's robots, quite capable of killing when absolutely necessary to protect innocent lives.
And later Asimov added the zeroth law of robotics to his original 3 (more precisely, one of his robots 'invented' the law that superceded the other 3). Asimov was brilliant!
I bet that if Data hadn't been beamed out like that, he would have said something along the lines of "You're right, I do have respect for all living beings. Unfortunately for you, that includes protecting them from other living beings that _do not_ have that same respect", and those words would have been the last thing Fajo heard while being slowly ripped apart at the atomic level.
@@Veldazandtea "Respect isn't an entilment." When that respect is for the _life_ of the individual, yes it fucking is. Or are you seriously telling me that it's ok to kill people who haven't "earned your respect"? "Data wouldn't claim a high horse like that. Too egotistical." It's not a matter of ego, simply cold, hard logic. Fajo has been shown that he is willing to disregard the life of a sentient being simply to pursue his research. That makes him a threat both to Data himself and to other sentient beings.
The satisfaction knowing Data fired on that pychopathic antagonist (which reminds me of Clockwork Orange). This show made me really hate bad people, and it still burns in me to this day, because they remind me of Kivas Fajo. Edit: I hated this episode so much, because the antagonist was so evil! The character I hated so much, I hated the episode! I just couldn't stand watching a person to be like this and know there are people like this who exist. So actually I didn't hate the episode, I just hated being reminded about bad people existing.
I love that he thought that the ethical program would save him because he addressed and thought of Data as a simple machine, forgetting that as a sentient being Data would have his own Moral Code and would not allow the situation to continue when weighing 1 life of a Criminal with other potential deaths. Data has to revisit his feelings on killing when he later gets emotions. KIlling a Borg no less.
Brent Spiner and Saul Rubinek acted this scene out well. But, I still wonder what was Data about to do when he took a step up closer to Armus in "Skin of Evil."
@@ugaladh The climax of "Menage a Troi" is such an episode, and one of my favorite scenes in all of TV --- "The only way you'll ever get me back, is over Tog's dead body!"
I think it of one of the small pieces I mentioned above. There's a subtle mutual overprotectiveness he and Yar share while she's around, which I take it is part of the feeling exaggerated/given play in "The Naked Now".
One of my favorite episodes. Most of the time Data followed the 3 Laws of robotics. In the later books the robots began to change their programming to add a 4th law “A robot may not, through in action or inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.” This is an example of Data being more than the sum of his parts. He has encountered a true monster, and reasons that it is necessary to kill the Collector for the betterment of life. Also Saul Rubenick was awesome in this role.
@@beingsshepherd Fajo shot that woman just to watch her die in the most painful way possible. He's a monster. I guess the situation changed once Data was rescued, and had another option to save the Collectors victims.
@@sleepinggorilla But you _did_ imply that Data similarly surmounted his programming to commendably safeguard life/humanity, though totally disregarded that morally-speaking his prospective victim merited precisely the same duty of care.
Fajo in this one clip, as a single-episode villain, displayed more character depth than many main characters in movies and TV shows today. What's especially impressive about that is that the actor--Rubinek--was asked at the last minute to play the role while he was just trying to visit the set.
@@ninjabearpress2574 ...and when the original actor who played Fajo committed suicide. You can find a few of the shot scenes with the original guy, David Rappaport, around UA-cam if you care to look. For example: ua-cam.com/video/tvW7GkRMMS8/v-deo.html
@@ninjabearpress2574 I agree. Rappaport's performance was just sheer meanness, and really lacked the much-needed sociopathy that Rubinek delivered in spades.
He was an utterly disgusting creature who made my blood boil. He murders someone and the moment he sees Data, “It was your fault.” Too many abusers in the world who hide behind a veneer of charm.
One flaw in his logic. Self defense is not murder. Data would be defending himself and the lives of others from as man who made it very clear he doesn't care what he does to other people.
@@beingsshepherd Not just a "thought crime" since he's demonstrated that he is willing to do what he says and has already murdered someone. That no longer makes the matter conjecture.
I love how "perhaps something occurred during transport, commander" is simply not a lie. Perhaps something DID occur during transport. Like he fired the disruptor during transport. That happened.
Many of you will already know this but Fajo was going to be played by David Rappaport but he tragically took his own life not long after starting filming. Saul Rubinek was called in to replace him and I feel he played it well but no mistake that the two Fajos gave off very different vibes. Take a search for the clips, I think Nitpicking Nerd uploaded some edited versions.
Actually, suffering from acute depression, Rappaport unsuccessfully attempted suicide over the first weekend after filming had started. He actually died of a self inflicted gunshot wound in an L.A. park on 2 May 1990, 5 days before the episode premiered.
i was wondering when youd get to this clip. thanks for uploading all these, i used to watch these episodes with my dad when i was little. im glad i subbed!! keep up the good work mr beans
This scene reveals quite a bit about the character of both Data and Fajo. Data is, under the right circumstances, capable of murder and covering it up (without actually lying), if he believes it's for a good reason. Fajo didn't have to kill whatshername, he just wanted to see what his rare, illegal, and deadly toy could actually do... and even he was disturbed by the results, tossing it aside in disgust, even though he's perfectly capable of murder for selfish whims.
Bought it? Only so far as supporting their friend and shipmate through a difficult time. Data was honest about it, after all; he said "perhaps", he implied a possibility. 《 Kind of like Spock Prime talking with himself, in _Star Trek (2009)._ 》
Riker and O'Brian aren't stupid, Data knew this and I feel like if pressed, he would have told the whole truth. However Riker and O'Brian both trusted Data and likely surmised from Data telling them that Fajo should be arrested for murder meant he had almost assuredly been in a situation that warranted lethal force. Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke out my arse over my favorite character in one of my favorite episodes of my favorite show when I was growing up.
@@matthewschwer6048 No, you're making very valid points and observations. One of the best ways to present characters is to avoid spelling out exactly what is going on. You need to give the viewer a chance to fill in the details with their own beliefs and ideas, left them flesh out the back story a bit. It's a fine line between not enough and too much, but when done right it makes you understand and identify with the characters on an almost subconscious level. You tend to get a feel for the character. In this episode we got to see a lot of that, obviously with Data but also with Riker and O'Brian in this scene.
Orh man! Give me the gun, I'LL DO IT!!! Wow I felt that rage just like Data DID! That was intense. Data, my hero! You beast. I did not know you had that in you!
"Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander." Cold line. I love it! Even decades later. All that was missing was Data looking into the camera and winking at the viewers.
Actually, this particular actor -Saul Rubinek - was a last-minute addition to the cast because the person originally cast in the role of Fajo, a British dwarf actor named David Rappaport, actually *attempted suicide* several days into filming and had to be replaced. Saul Rubinek, an actor and fan of the show, was friends with this particular episode's director and had arranged to visit the set that particular day, and was thus cast in the role of Kivas Fajo *completely* by random chance and coincidence. I thought he did a really fantastic job, frankly.
I remember this actor from his role in _Aliens_ - shortly before this TNG episode aired. His character was a backstabbing cowardly slimy bullshitting piece of shite, impossible to like and easy to hate on many levels. I don't know anything about the actor - maybe he's a great guy, I dunno - but I admire his ability to evoke so much antipathy on screen.
It’s not a lie, the implication was it was out of his control, but what happened during transport was he pulled the trigger. So technically what he said was true
2:28 It's not really murder if the life that is taken was done to save others at imminent risk of being murdered themselves. That's called justifiable homicide.
Ambrose Bierce put homicide into four categories: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy. He added that this classification makes no difference to the dead; the system is for the benefit of lawyers.
"I'm reading a weapon in transit with Commander Data. It seems to have discharged sir, I'm deactivating it." "Good, beam him in facing directly towards yourself. That way it'll be funnier for me if you got it wrong."
Data was very clear at the beginning of his capture that he does not kill but he would kill if the threat was great enough. When Fajo killed Varias and then threatened to kill more people he put himself into the exception to Data's rule about killing.
Check out when Brent played a condemned man in _The Twilight Zone_ (1985). I think it helped his struggle as Data. And when Saul KO'ed someone in _Getting Even with Dad_ . That was a real punch, not acting.
Such a damn good episode this, and Saul Rubinek is a such great actor too. Originally it was going to be David Rappaport in the role of Kivas Fajo. Im glad Saul did it though, he literally owned every line he utters 😎🖖
Riker's thumb, tapping on the disruptor, at the end, while exchanging glances with O'Brien, CLEEEEEARLY meant "Yeah, right... something happened, MY ASS!"
Fajo: "Your fault...." Data: "Nah, man, I am pretty sure this is on you. I was just sittin' in the shuttle chillin', and you come out, all gangsta, an shit."
@@TheCrescentKnight i mean there's a lot of deeper philosophy in both, as well as criticism and observation of the human condition, psychology, complex robots and androids given human emotions to mingle with their logic and objectivity. They were going to converge somewhere eventually.
She was dramatically throwing herself on the ground to reach for the naked gun. 😏 Menawhile Data doesn't notice any frickin' thing about what's going on outside. 🤦 But Data realized here that *accepting his own slavery would also condemn others* to slavery. 2:55 An interesting intellectual puzzle can still lead to various actions. 😉 Also, that Data dodged the question about the weapon discharge seemed to indicate that he chose not to be openly sincere to protect his career. Very questionable. A profound moment for his character.
My head canon (and this episode is evidence of it in my mind) is that Data was always highly emotional just like his older brother. However, after the failures of Lore, Dr. Soong disconnected his emotions from his conscious mind. So they were always there, he just wasn't consciously aware of them until he installed the emotion chip.
If the transporter controls can deactivate an energy weapon being transported then you could theoretically deactivate someones nervous system while THEY are being beamed up. Nice way to weed out the enemies who are trying to use hostages from your crew to force you to beam everyone up to your ship
Data was trained at StarFleet, so must certainly have been trained how to conduct himself in combat situations. Well, I enjoyed this episode a lot, even with that.
He thinks Data can’t kill. Yet he knows of his reputation in starfleet. Part of that reputation are the battles, fights he was in. He can fire a phaser, her can fire the weapons on the ship at other living things. His brain has gone over the outcomes if he does not fire the weapon VS’s does. He may not see it anymore than a puzzle to be solved. He does however know he has to win. Cause to win is to solve the puzzle. So to stop Fashta from tormenting other life forms Data has to fire the weapon. He doesn’t have to kill Fashta to win, he just has to fire the weapon to stop him. Thus winning. Fashta thought just getting Data away from Data’s ship and crew mates Data would be helpless. As just an Android, Fashta would be right. This shows us that Data can think outside the perimeters of his programming. He can think and reason for himself.
"I wasn't going to kill you, but you talked me into it".
That was the equation!
He was going to take Data's beans. Can't say that I can blame Data... 😆
Fajo managed to activate Data's "fuck it" sub-routine.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's the lesser used "Find Out" protocol.
Fajo triggered its activation by performing A "Fuck Around" action as a full turn.
@@Talon1124"I would like to fuck around for 1 turn"
"Data rolls to shoot you. He rolls a 1, being beamed back to the enterprise"
I wish I could say it's a sub-routine of mine, but I have unfortunately increased it to one of my favorite main routines.
Logically, sometimes you just have to Veron T a @#$%.
"I cannot permit this to continue."
One of the best lines of the series.
I think its a scary line to receive XD that your actions, even removed from moral or emotional considerations, logically cannot be allowed to go on
Data realized that some lives are worth more than others, depending on what actions that life takes.
@@theravenousrabbit3671 It is not just that, it is also the numbers. There were potentially a lot of lives at stake here.
The emotion chip was a really bad idea for this character. Data was always best as a metaphor for neural divergent people, like those with autism. Data should have slowly discovered that although he does not have emotions quite the same as human beings, he still has a type of emotion that he experiences in his own unique way. There were so many hints at him developing his own emotional understanding through the series. His keeping of the hologram of Lt Yar, and his treasuring of their romantic encounter, his pet cat and the way he cared deeply for Spot, his sense of absence in his programing (aka life) when people died or left. He did have emotion, but in a neural divergent manner. Data's realization of this should have occurred like those with Asperger's coming to understand other peoples emotions and their own unique ones that are different in many ways from the way neural typical people experience emotion. Also Data should have been recast, like the recasting of Dr.Who. Data should have periodically decided to adopt a new persona, including outward looks and changes to his personality programming, in an attempt to experience and grow himself further. this way the part could continue even when a single actor no longer wants to or can perform the role.
Data literally did the math to draw that conclusion. Better one life than countless others.
The fact that Data was totally going to end him gives me no small amount of joy. Joy because unlike a human, his decision was not made out of rage, but purely out of reasoning.
Lying about it says otherwise. Yes it was the most logical choice, but the fact that he knew to lie just means he's that much closer to being human.
You know the guy was unarmed data could have just ran so fast he never would have known it and knocked him out with a simple flick of his fingers.
@@carmelopappalardo8477 he had a proximity shield doodad on his belt. Data tried that earlier in the story.
@@BravoDox Ah, but that wasn't DURING transport, it was just before.
@@MrBawdry I have not seen this episode in years and barely remember it. Thank you very much. By the way the guy who's playing the villain is probably a nice guy but he has played so many villains. He just seems like a total sleaze.
"Mr. O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge."
"Yes. He murdered one person and was threatening to murder more, so I was about to kill the shit out of him, sir"
"Very good Mr. Data."
"OBrian said the weapon was in a state of discharge" ......Data "Was it ever! Totally! 100 percent . Damn straight."
I'm such a TNG geek that I read both of those comments in Brent Spiner's voice. 😂
They should have shown it beginning to fire at the beginning of the transporter beam.
@@TheCormTube The question we have to ask ourselves is : Why did Data lie about it?
Why did Data lie?
Fajo's great mistake was assuming that "a fundamental respect for all life" meant that Data could not harm any life, and thus he could not kill Fajo. And because of that assumption, he unwittingly manufactured the situation in which Data COULD kill him. Data being faced with someone who had just killed and would kill again just to satisfy his own petty whims made the decision relatively easy(though Data still hesitated for a moment). Data's fundamental respect for all life mandated that, in the absence of all other alternatives, Fajo had to die in order to protect all the others he would inevitably kill otherwise.
Datas hesitation could be seen as his humanity, he may not feel but he won’t kill instantly due to an analysis.
Also «for an android that is nearly an eternity». So he probably contemplated very hard and made the «right» choice out of the ones he had.
@@galahad6300 Brent Spiner convinced us he was an android having a crisis of conscience...what an actor.
There had been one situation before in which such a choice potentially presented itself: Armus. Noting that if he had escaped, he would no doubt harm whoever he wished, without second thought. And because of the great sadism and cruelty exhibited towards others, he believed destroying Armus was a viable alternative.
So he is not beyond taking a life when absolutely necessary. But the situation has to be evaluated quickly, and no other viable options known or available.
Can someone explain this to batman?
@@LuLe232 Batman knows, because he's Batman.
That lie of omission is one of my favorite Data moments. Shows how well he's grown to understand the nuances of human communication and bureaucracy.
But why lie though?
@@wjzav1971
Yeah, it's a flaw in the writing. It does show character growth, but it's unnecessary to lie given the circumstances.
@@wjzav1971he didn’t lie, what he said was true. Something did happen during transport.
@@bgill7475 To quote Picard: A lie of omission is still a lie. Data is not the kind of guy who leaves "I fired the phaser" out unless he wants to.
@@wjzav1971 everything Picard says isn’t a fact. Data is his own person, he doesn’t need to subscribe to everything Picard believes, neither do you.
Somewhere that day, Lore was thinking with his trademark smirk, "I'm impressed, brother. Didn't know you had it in you!"
Makes me wonder how this would have gone down of he captured lore instead
@@grapes008 Lore would quite easily have broken out, murdered all of Fajo's crew quickly and efficiently, and have tortured Fajo before finally killing him. Then of course he'd take the ship.
Plus Data lied to Riker.
@@carmelopappalardo8477 Which makes this moment, if not episode, one of the DARKEST in TNG or trek at all.
@@carmelopappalardo8477 No, he didn't. Very carefully, he didn't.
Saul Rubinek did such great work playing Fajo. He just nailed the part. His overabundance of malicious emotion complimented Data's passionless demeanor so well.
Especially considering he was a last-minute replacement.
Notice how many tics and facial micro-expressions Brent Spiner performs during the whole of Fajo's gloat over Data's supposed lack of emotion and inability to feel rage.
I think if we took asthma off three laws of robotics Data would have been able to eliminate him much earlier.
Asthma off... Asimov?
@@anythingandeverything264 damn autocorrect.
@@carmelopappalardo8477 Only if you include the Zeroth Law (a robot may not harm humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm), an implied law which most robots could not formulate. Otherwise, the First Law comes into play. Only one of Asimov's robots--R. Daneel Olivaw--could follow the Zeroth law and it took him millennia to understand it enough to follow it. (The character in Asimov's short stories is not known for certain to have been a robot; Dr. Calvin strongly suspects it, but she's in the minority.)
Data's positronic brain is highly advanced and capable of more than the simple brains portrayed in most of Asimov's works. He may have made the necessary jump, though other comments have pointed out that there were certainly other means of subduing Fajo, or even just killing him quickly and painlessly. Data could have snapped his neck or even just punched him so hard that he would immediately lose consciousness and die before he could feel anything. We got the potential use of the Varon-T disruptor for dramatic effect.
My no-prize explaination for this is that Data's creator lied. Data has an emotional system. It's just programmed differently. Soong did say that the only difference between Data and Lore was a bit of programming.
Data's ethical subroutines do allow for murder. He was going to kill many, his death was only 1. Killing him would save many. It's the most logical thing to do.
It's not murder though, is it? Fighting or killing to prevent murder or enslavement is not murder. Further, as an officer of the Federation, Data would have ethical obligations to enforce the peace, which again means not murder.
@@PaulfromChicago firing a weapon on an unarmed person is also always unlawful. Of course, this is an incredibly specific situation and I don't imagine any court finding you guilty... But then data represents the federation. Data could definitely have found another way out of that room and to safety - he's the smartest person in almost any room he's in. Justified homicide is what I think they'd usually call a crime like Data's. Not encouraged but not worth punishing, either.
It's not murder. Murder is taking another life without acceptable justification.
If someone gives you an ultimatum that either you kill them or they will kill others (there was also the third option of giving in to Fajo's demands but that wouldn't prevent him from killing more people)...
...and your objective is to prevent more deaths ("I cannot permit this to continue.")...
...and you have clear evidence that they will kill because they just did it in front of you...
...and you already tried stopping them with words...
...and you have no other means of preventing them from killing further (Data couldn't incapacitate Fajo with a lethal-only disruptor)...
...then you likely have no choice but to kill them. Data has this justification and also the obligations of a Starfleet officer.
@@feathersigil2048 Fajo ditched his disruptor, he was unarmed. Personally that wouldn't make a difference to me, but Data could have knocked Fajo unconscious. Without the disruptor it's one ordinary man with no combat training (and maybe a couple of his goons) against an android who bends scifi steel bars without effort. He could have taken a hundred Fajos hand to hand. He was standing right next to a transport he could have used to deliver him to the authorities. He made a choice: to stop Fajo the surest way he knew how, no chance for any tricks or last second reversals. In my opinion it was the right one, but it wasn't the only one.
@@angusmuir6180 You're right, Fajo threw away the disruptor. Transporting Fajo out or using the shuttle weren't guaranteed to work, so you're also right that Data had other options but under all the particular circumstances killing Fajo was the most sure way of protecting other lives.
"Your continued existence represents a clear and continuing threat to human life. Therefore, your existence must be *concluded* ."
Humans are worth more than other species?
@@beingsshepherd not really what was being expressed, IMO.
@@jrbaskind I was alluding to the executioner's dehumanisation of the condemned.
@@beingsshepherd The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
@@christopherballard1348 Then honour your core principles and cooperate Mr Data.
“Something Vimes had learned as a young guard drifted up from memory. If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.
They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.
So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”
― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms
Pratchett captured the human condition _so well_
Such a shame he's gone
At such times, you can see how Data is more than a machine.
Gawd I miss Gene Roddenberry.
Fajo: "Only a machine."
Data: "Dodge this"
@@izzmus Of course Data kills 4 episodes later in the series, but those were Borg drones (The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1).
I wouldn't say humans are more than machines tbh.
Just very different to the types of machines that we typically build.
The look between Riker and O'Brien at the end is my favorite pert of that scene. They both know manure when they smell it.
And they've just realized: "Holy shit, Data might just be a super-strength, calculating psycopath!"
They realized that something unusual happened and it didn't matter because they implicitly & explicitly trust one another. Those friendships are worth more than all the gems & precious minerals in the universe.
It's no manure though... Something DID occur during transport. :P
@@jessiehogue. Which Data did not admit too. That's manure.
@@Veldazandtea Whatever you say. :P
"There's always another Varia" is, to me, one of the best character lines in the show. Absolutely perfect Kivas Fajo line.
Data at the end lying and neither of his friends looking like they buy it (though kudos to them for not calling him on it)
He technically didn't lie. Something did happen during transport. He pulled the trigger.
@@cordellshackelford4037 ha!
Garak approves of Data!
"Lying is such an ugly word. I prefer creative embellishment!"
@@cordellshackelford4037 Even more than that, he just noted the possibility of something having happened during transport. He doesn't actually say that's what happened. And for all we know maybe he wasn't about to fire, after all he didn't make a motion to fire the same way Fajo did, with two hands. It's left completely ambiguous.
Data didn't lie, something occurred during transport, but his carefully chosen words are the cherry on top of this magnificent bit of theater.
One of the most brutal deaths in Star Trek History.
Easily. And so disturbing.
The only worse death was Lt Cmdr Remmick(sp) when he had that mother alien in him.
Riker's phaser ripped his skin off then his head exploded. At least they used more green instead of red. 😏
@@retluoc oh yeah chunks everywhere
Transporter death?
@@paradisebreeze1705 Yes, the transporter malfunction death from The Motion Picture was worse. ua-cam.com/video/Ro_QpDJX-Sk/v-deo.html
Fajo was such a good villian. He's one of those villians that you just absolutely despise because the writing makes it personal for the viewer. It's the Umbridge effect. Love it when that happens.
Keep in mind that not only does Data's ethical program allow him to kill, he doesn't always make decisions purely based on logic. He isn't a Vulcan. In fact, in the episode "Data's Day", he remarks that he finds something lacking in the Vulcan's dedication to logic alone.
Data also kills 4 episodes later in the series, but those were Borg drones (The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1).
His decisions are purely based on logic.
His programming, however, is not.
Soong wrote his ethical programs. This will include Soong's emotional biases on what counts as "moral" for a machine. Data is, ultimately, his father's son in this regard.
His programs likely also allow for data to partially make decisions based on the observed morals of those around him - Picard and the rest of the crew. He learns to assimilate by studying their moral values and adding them to his own. This is a process he does logically.
I love that Data's statement at the end is perfectly, literally true.
A lie by omission, perhaps, but no more.
"Damn it Wesley, A lie of omission is still a lie!" -- Captain Picard.
He brought it on himself, he systematically eliminated every reason Data had to spare him.
He ceased _living being_ status?
@@beingsshepherd But his servants are living beings x3 and by Faro's own words, those deaths would be on his hands, unless he killed Faro or complied, but Faro gave data no reason to think that compliance would truly stop him, after all Varia was compliant and he still pointed that disrupter at her (the 1st time)
@@Ellimist000 Stop him from what? Who was in imminent danger?
Coercing and killing aren't the same thing, plus two wrongs don't make a right.
The mistake that Fajo made was to announce that he will continue to injure/kill more people in case of continued restistance. That means that Data knew that more people would be killed anyways, with two options:
1. Data kills Fajo: One person dead
2. Data resists Fajo: Probably more than one dead over longer timescales.
So he chose to kill Fajo because it's the better outcome.
I concur, as Data is special, but an automaton android, would've just sat in the chair.
The biggest mistake in my opinion was underestimated Data's program.
They aren't walls that block him from doing this and that.
They are more like guide lines to follow.
His programming is very flexible and can be altered.
People keep making this argument, but it's not actually logical because it doesn't account for other possibilities. For one, Data could have easily subdued Fajo with his combat abilities that he loves to mention but never use. Secondly, you are ignoring the possibility that lives might depend on Fajo's survival, now lost due to his death (maybe only he knows the code to disarm a nuclear bomb in a city center?). Thirdly, casting down judgment is inherently an illogical course of action that depends on inferences and arbitrary notions of "justice" which is largely symbolic in nature and connected to cultural norms. Killing Fajo or subduing him would have the exact same outcome in this instance, so Data choosing to kill him was a choice Data made that is separated from logic.
So what Data is doing here is actually a failure of logic and shows that Data is willing to supercede his own programming and cast down judgment, probably because Data is much more than just a simple android.
@@TheRealNeonwarrior Data couldn't attack Fajo due to the device he's carrying. That was established earlier in the episode.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...
I love your channel because you have the talent to slice and dice ST/TNG episodes into self contained vignettes.
Thank you :) I try my best
Doing a great job. @@tjwparso
Watch Fajo from 0:56 to 1:03. You can tell that he's horrified by what he just did - but seconds later he's back to his typical cold, smug persona.
What makes Fajo such a monstrous person is not that he has no conscience. It's that he *does*, but ruthlessly crushes it whenever it begins to assert itself.
Saul Rubinek did an excellent job, especially considering he was literally last minute replacement.
Imagine pissing of someone who possesses superhuman strength- and a LOT of it, an extremely tough creature, quite resistant to most harm.
Data: "You will surrender yourself to the authorities."
Fajo: "Or what? You'll fire?"
Data: "No, I will use my superior strength to restrain you then deliver you to them."
I love the idea that Data could have left him a cripple and shattered every extremity just to make it impossible for Fajo to either run or harm another… but his ethical subroutines decided such an act would be unreasonably cruel. That was what allowed him to pull the trigger. We know he’s fast and strong enough to do it, but he is held back by his programming. Soong designed him well.
@@nicholashernandez4611 Bro, I just meant cuffs or rope.
@@Jarikraider or just hug him really hard
@@Jarikraider Hard to cuff someone without being able to physically came near them due to the personal force field. Tho perhaps he could have thrown something heavy to 'disable' him.
@@TheDeadnaughty issue is if you dont know the species , what will disable and what will kill?
The "Let's see if we can provoke him". exercise, taken on without considering the personal cost of success. It was briefly popular with Vulcan school children, and human teenagers on the federation colony Worf was raised on.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
That last part is quote-worthy.
"Provoke home"? I've never heard of that.
@@toasega autocorrect started acting weird a couple months ago. It started trying to use what I think is a Thai dictionary. Sometimes I don't notice it's "help". I've corrected it to "him".
@@glynncordry5965
Ah, got it.
I bet that was the first time Vasho killed by his reaction. But once he broke the barrier, he would have no issue doing it again. Data was doing the right thing.
What bothers me is he seemed to like it so yeah, he'll do it again.
I am not so sure, could he not have tied Fajo up or perhaps incapacitated him?
@@velnz5475 Vajo had a shield.
@@poseidon5003 A reprogramming by data to force the shield in place so Fajo couldnt leave it or move around? Or dismantling of all disruptors/weapons aboard and a collective mutiny on Fajo's crew? As I understand it the fastest and most effective option was to shoot Fajo, the probable guarantee the shield wouldnt stop the shot was a gamble.
@@velnz5475 It wasn't that type of shield. The field emitted disrupted Data's positronic net. Data CAN"T get close to him. All of the disruptors were in a Data proof safe except for that one particular weapon. And Vajo obviously had some off screen control tech over the others.
This is one of my all-time favorite scenes in the entire ST franchise. Not only is Data learning to extrapolate the moral consequences of action (and inaction), he is learning to obfuscate (lie) in order to preserve himself. It demonstrates the evolution of his character to a more sentient/sapient state. Great stuff!
It was a great episode, but it had it's greatest influence on those who had followed the show and data's progression. An interesting and entertaining story but I doubt it would have had the same impression as a stand alone.
Riker wanted Data to spill the beans...
After 30+ years, this is still so watchable. Data's prevarication couched in an an innocuous observation. His emotions were expressed like those of a Vulcan. He has them, but he knows how to hide them.
Love this part. It reveals so much about Data's character and moral compass. Data is a consequentialist. By ending one life he can save many more, so he cannot allow the murders to continue. The greater good outweighs the individual act. Or maybe... possibly... Data did feel something. And maybe that's why he hid the truth.
But the Trolley Problem is not the only possible fork in the path.
Your programming won't allow it. Fundamental respect for all beans, remember? Your only alternative is to eat them.
This was my favorite scene ever in Next Generation. Data knew...he had to die.
Perhaps something occurred in transport, sir.
Nicolas Cage: ALAN! Why did you kill that girl, Alan?!? You're fired, Alan! 😆
Where did you find that disruptor, Warehouse 13?😄
"Mr. O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge."
"Perhaps something occurred during transport."
Not a lie ... directly ... though like a certain Vulcan we all know certainly capable of "omission." An so unlike Asimov's robots, quite capable of killing when absolutely necessary to protect innocent lives.
Yes. He pulled the trigger... that’s what occurred during transport
And later Asimov added the zeroth law of robotics to his original 3 (more precisely, one of his robots 'invented' the law that superceded the other 3). Asimov was brilliant!
There was no imminent danger to innocent lives; just about anyone's capable of killing. Perhaps Data should have pre-emptively killed everyone :-/
I bet that if Data hadn't been beamed out like that, he would have said something along the lines of "You're right, I do have respect for all living beings. Unfortunately for you, that includes protecting them from other living beings that _do not_ have that same respect", and those words would have been the last thing Fajo heard while being slowly ripped apart at the atomic level.
"All"
Respect isn't an entilment. Data wouldn't claim a high horse like that. Too egotistical.
@@Veldazandtea
"Respect isn't an entilment."
When that respect is for the _life_ of the individual, yes it fucking is. Or are you seriously telling me that it's ok to kill people who haven't "earned your respect"?
"Data wouldn't claim a high horse like that. Too egotistical."
It's not a matter of ego, simply cold, hard logic. Fajo has been shown that he is willing to disregard the life of a sentient being simply to pursue his research. That makes him a threat both to Data himself and to other sentient beings.
The satisfaction knowing Data fired on that pychopathic antagonist (which reminds me of Clockwork Orange). This show made me really hate bad people, and it still burns in me to this day, because they remind me of Kivas Fajo.
Edit: I hated this episode so much, because the antagonist was so evil! The character I hated so much, I hated the episode! I just couldn't stand watching a person to be like this and know there are people like this who exist. So actually I didn't hate the episode, I just hated being reminded about bad people existing.
I love that he thought that the ethical program would save him because he addressed and thought of Data as a simple machine, forgetting that as a sentient being Data would have his own Moral Code and would not allow the situation to continue when weighing 1 life of a Criminal with other potential deaths.
Data has to revisit his feelings on killing when he later gets emotions. KIlling a Borg no less.
What a snowflake you are Shawn.
@@legendarygamer570 most def. not! I hate STD/PIC.
it is possible to both hate something and yet still respect it
_Good people_ are full of murderous hate for others?
I love this episode. Data came very close to being human in this scene.
You've a very dim view of humanity.
Fajo's mistake was believing "fundamental respect for all living beings" meant "incapable of murder", when the two are not the same.
Brent Spiner and Saul Rubinek acted this scene out well. But, I still wonder what was Data about to do when he took a step up closer to Armus in "Skin of Evil."
Flawless writing, inspired acting, now THIS is real Star Trek!
there were some episodes where the entire episode was just ok, then the ending saved/made the whole episode. this was one of those
@@ugaladh The climax of "Menage a Troi" is such an episode, and one of my favorite scenes in all of TV --- "The only way you'll ever get me back, is over Tog's dead body!"
I think it of one of the small pieces I mentioned above. There's a subtle mutual overprotectiveness he and Yar share while she's around, which I take it is part of the feeling exaggerated/given play in "The Naked Now".
Damn good acting from Rubinek, especially given he had about two days to practice and get ready. The original actor had a medical emergency.
One of my favorite episodes. Most of the time Data followed the 3 Laws of robotics. In the later books the robots began to change their programming to add a 4th law “A robot may not, through in action or inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.”
This is an example of Data being more than the sum of his parts. He has encountered a true monster, and reasons that it is necessary to kill the Collector for the betterment of life.
Also Saul Rubenick was awesome in this role.
Seems you're dehumanising the Collector on account of your moral revulsion.
@@beingsshepherd Fajo shot that woman just to watch her die in the most painful way possible. He's a monster. I guess the situation changed once Data was rescued, and had another option to save the Collectors victims.
@@sleepinggorilla The aforementioned _4th law_ indicates no forfeiture of care for those perceived as monsters.
@@beingsshepherd Never said it did.
@@sleepinggorilla But you _did_ imply that Data similarly surmounted his programming to commendably safeguard life/humanity, though totally disregarded that morally-speaking his prospective victim merited precisely the same duty of care.
I absolutely loved this bit of Data's character development.
Corruption.
Fajo in this one clip, as a single-episode villain, displayed more character depth than many main characters in movies and TV shows today.
What's especially impressive about that is that the actor--Rubinek--was asked at the last minute to play the role while he was just trying to visit the set.
This is what you get when talented actors get a good script, masterfully guided by an expert director.
@@ninjabearpress2574 ...and when the original actor who played Fajo committed suicide.
You can find a few of the shot scenes with the original guy, David Rappaport, around UA-cam if you care to look.
For example: ua-cam.com/video/tvW7GkRMMS8/v-deo.html
@@zagnorch1336 I've seen it and, nothing against the other guy, but Rubinek did a brilliant job.
Sorry Mr. Rappaport came to a sad end.
@@ninjabearpress2574 I agree. Rappaport's performance was just sheer meanness, and really lacked the much-needed sociopathy that Rubinek delivered in spades.
He was an utterly disgusting creature who made my blood boil. He murders someone and the moment he sees Data, “It was your fault.” Too many abusers in the world who hide behind a veneer of charm.
Riker: "Mr. O'Brien says the weapon was in a state of discharge."
Data: "Sometimes we fuck around. And sometimes we find out."
One flaw in his logic.
Self defense is not murder. Data would be defending himself and the lives of others from as man who made it very clear he doesn't care what he does to other people.
Preventative self-defense to preserve life.
Summary execution for a thought crime?
@@beingsshepherd Not just a "thought crime" since he's demonstrated that he is willing to do what he says and has already murdered someone. That no longer makes the matter conjecture.
@@darthroden A credible threat isn't the same as imminent harm.
@@beingsshepherd Correct, by law, just about everywhere, that would not be self defense, but it would be indictable.
I love how "perhaps something occurred during transport, commander" is simply not a lie. Perhaps something DID occur during transport. Like he fired the disruptor during transport. That happened.
"This weapon is in a state of discharge" Southern Data: "He needed shootin' sir"
Many of you will already know this but Fajo was going to be played by David Rappaport but he tragically took his own life not long after starting filming.
Saul Rubinek was called in to replace him and I feel he played it well but no mistake that the two Fajos gave off very different vibes.
Take a search for the clips, I think Nitpicking Nerd uploaded some edited versions.
Actually, suffering from acute depression, Rappaport unsuccessfully attempted suicide over the first weekend after filming had started. He actually died of a self inflicted gunshot wound in an L.A. park on 2 May 1990, 5 days before the episode premiered.
I like how at the beginning and end of the videos you have a pulsating orb of baked beans
i was wondering when youd get to this clip. thanks for uploading all these, i used to watch these episodes with my dad when i was little. im glad i subbed!! keep up the good work mr beans
This scene reveals quite a bit about the character of both Data and Fajo. Data is, under the right circumstances, capable of murder and covering it up (without actually lying), if he believes it's for a good reason. Fajo didn't have to kill whatshername, he just wanted to see what his rare, illegal, and deadly toy could actually do... and even he was disturbed by the results, tossing it aside in disgust, even though he's perfectly capable of murder for selfish whims.
Riker and O'Brian aren't buying Data's story lol.
Bought it? Only so far as supporting their friend and shipmate through a difficult time. Data was honest about it, after all; he said "perhaps", he implied a possibility. 《 Kind of like Spock Prime talking with himself, in _Star Trek (2009)._ 》
Perhaps, but noting what is likely to be submitted in his report, I’m sure that the right people will not dig too deeply into certain aspects.
Riker and O'Brian aren't stupid, Data knew this and I feel like if pressed, he would have told the whole truth. However Riker and O'Brian both trusted Data and likely surmised from Data telling them that Fajo should be arrested for murder meant he had almost assuredly been in a situation that warranted lethal force. Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke out my arse over my favorite character in one of my favorite episodes of my favorite show when I was growing up.
@@matthewschwer6048 No, you're making very valid points and observations. One of the best ways to present characters is to avoid spelling out exactly what is going on. You need to give the viewer a chance to fill in the details with their own beliefs and ideas, left them flesh out the back story a bit. It's a fine line between not enough and too much, but when done right it makes you understand and identify with the characters on an almost subconscious level. You tend to get a feel for the character.
In this episode we got to see a lot of that, obviously with Data but also with Riker and O'Brian in this scene.
@@bobblum5973 There's nothing honest about reporting a known fact as a possibility.
Orh man! Give me the gun, I'LL DO IT!!! Wow I felt that rage just like Data DID!
That was intense. Data, my hero! You beast. I did not know you had that in you!
Funny, first time I saw this scene I was thinking the same thing, and that's what makes this Star Trek.
What rage? He's an android, devoid of emotion.
"Perhaps something happened in transport Commander.."
Absolute truth...he fired as the transport initiated.
Riker did not ask the right question.
"Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander."
Cold line. I love it! Even decades later.
All that was missing was Data looking into the camera and winking at the viewers.
This is one of the few scenes that sent a shiver down my spine....
This clip right here is why Data never needed the emotion chip.
Pinocchio becomes The Wizard of OZ :-/
"hello, casting? We need that actor who everyone wishes they could beat to death. What's his name again?"
Actually, this particular actor -Saul Rubinek - was a last-minute addition to the cast because the person originally cast in the role of Fajo, a British dwarf actor named David Rappaport, actually *attempted suicide* several days into filming and had to be replaced.
Saul Rubinek, an actor and fan of the show, was friends with this particular episode's director and had arranged to visit the set that particular day, and was thus cast in the role of Kivas Fajo *completely* by random chance and coincidence. I thought he did a really fantastic job, frankly.
I remember this actor from his role in _Aliens_ - shortly before this TNG episode aired. His character was a backstabbing cowardly slimy bullshitting piece of shite, impossible to like and easy to hate on many levels.
I don't know anything about the actor - maybe he's a great guy, I dunno - but I admire his ability to evoke so much antipathy on screen.
@@pwnmeisterage That would be Paul Reiser. Completely different actor.
"Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander."
One of the most ominous lines of the series. It can lie now.
It’s not a lie, the implication was it was out of his control, but what happened during transport was he pulled the trigger. So technically what he said was true
@@InAMinMaths Well, you made that up, so... no.
If Data had found a phaser lying next to the disruptor he would have chosen the phaser. Commander Data made the right choice for the situation.
Thats the dodgiest I've ever seen Data being
I love Riker's expression at 4:15.
"Perhaps something occurred during transport, sir."
🤨 Yoooooouuu sneaky little murderbot, you!
2:28 It's not really murder if the life that is taken was done to save others at imminent risk of being murdered themselves. That's called justifiable homicide.
And that's why Data leveled the weapon.
Ambrose Bierce put homicide into four categories: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy. He added that this classification makes no difference to the dead; the system is for the benefit of lawyers.
It would only have been imminent on condition of Data's refusal in returning to his chair.
Data should have been like “Have I ever told you about brother, Lore? He was evil and homicidal. I wonder what it feels like to act like him?”
Honestly, DS9 O'Brien would've beamed Fajo into fucking space if he knew what was happening.
Geordie would have beaten him to it.
The algorithm really wants me to watch ever bit of this episode in every clip it can find.
4:20 "Perhaps something occured during transport Commander."
Riker, thinking, "Not the best bluff, but we all have to start somewhere I suppose."
Fajo: "You can't harm me"
Data: "I have killed dozens of Borg for the greater good, you are no different"
1:12 Fajo really got off on that
"I'm reading a weapon in transit with Commander Data. It seems to have discharged sir, I'm deactivating it."
"Good, beam him in facing directly towards yourself. That way it'll be funnier for me if you got it wrong."
"Not my chair, not my problem."
Data was very clear at the beginning of his capture that he does not kill but he would kill if the threat was great enough. When Fajo killed Varias and then threatened to kill more people he put himself into the exception to Data's rule about killing.
Looks like that hurt.
"When you have to shoot... shoot! Don't talk!" - Tuco Benedicto Pacífico Juan María Ramírez
Saul Rubinek is brilliant but Brent Spiner convinced me he was an android having a crisis of conscience.
Now THIS is Star Trek.
Check out when Brent played a condemned man in _The Twilight Zone_ (1985). I think it helped his struggle as Data. And when Saul KO'ed someone in _Getting Even with Dad_ .
That was a real punch, not acting.
Or he could get up close and, oh, I dunno, club him unconscious.
You're forgetting the personal force field, demonstrated earlier in this brilliantly written episode.
It all builds to this moment.
“You’re becoming more Human all the time Data. Now you’re learning how to lie.”
Would have been more satisfying if Data turned him into a pretzel with his android strength.
The way Riker says "Discharged?", he must have been wondering who or what the hell was so bad that they actually forced Data to shoot them.
1:04 For an unfeeling android, Data looks _mighty_ pissed.
Such a damn good episode this, and Saul Rubinek is a such great actor too. Originally it was going to be David Rappaport in the role of Kivas Fajo. Im glad Saul did it though, he literally owned every line he utters 😎🖖
Riker's thumb, tapping on the disruptor, at the end, while exchanging glances with O'Brien, CLEEEEEARLY meant "Yeah, right... something happened, MY ASS!"
As Spock often says. “The needs of the many”.
The twerp had it coming (and was one hell of a well acted role for a last minute replacement).
Awesome. I've always wanted to know what this scene looked like at 12 frames/sec.
Fajo: "Your fault...."
Data: "Nah, man, I am pretty sure this is on you. I was just sittin' in the shuttle chillin', and you come out, all gangsta, an shit."
When Data said, "I cannot permit this to continue," it reminded me of Neo.
Star Trek Fans: "I Cannot Permit this to Continue"
NieR Fans: "This Cannot Continue. This Cannot Continue. This Cannot Continue."
was looking for this comparison
@@ToaLewa6 I'm surprised that I found the overlap of NieR fans and ST fans.
@@TheCrescentKnight i mean there's a lot of deeper philosophy in both, as well as criticism and observation of the human condition, psychology, complex robots and androids given human emotions to mingle with their logic and objectivity. They were going to converge somewhere eventually.
She was dramatically throwing herself on the ground to reach for the naked gun. 😏
Menawhile Data doesn't notice any frickin' thing about what's going on outside. 🤦
But Data realized here that *accepting his own slavery would also condemn others* to slavery.
2:55 An interesting intellectual puzzle can still lead to various actions. 😉
Also, that Data dodged the question about the weapon discharge seemed to indicate that he chose not to be openly sincere to protect his career. Very questionable. A profound moment for his character.
Perhaps something occurred during transport. An understatement, to be sure!
My head canon (and this episode is evidence of it in my mind) is that Data was always highly emotional just like his older brother. However, after the failures of Lore, Dr. Soong disconnected his emotions from his conscious mind. So they were always there, he just wasn't consciously aware of them until he installed the emotion chip.
"So much for the tolerant android."
Ruk: That was the equation!
If the transporter controls can deactivate an energy weapon being transported then you could theoretically deactivate someones nervous system while THEY are being beamed up. Nice way to weed out the enemies who are trying to use hostages from your crew to force you to beam everyone up to your ship
This scene FR made ne cry, this scene is where Data became human to me and i was angry it was forced by a bully instead of love.
It would have been so perfect if the Terminator theme played as he walked off.
The Enterprise was on a rescue mission but little did they know it was one for Fajo.
Data was trained at StarFleet, so must certainly have been trained how to conduct himself in combat situations. Well, I enjoyed this episode a lot, even with that.
He thinks Data can’t kill. Yet he knows of his reputation in starfleet.
Part of that reputation are the battles, fights he was in. He can fire a phaser, her can fire the weapons on the ship at other living things.
His brain has gone over the outcomes if he does not fire the weapon VS’s does.
He may not see it anymore than a puzzle to be solved. He does however know he has to win. Cause to win is to solve the puzzle.
So to stop Fashta from tormenting other life forms Data has to fire the weapon. He doesn’t have to kill Fashta to win, he just has to fire the weapon to stop him. Thus winning.
Fashta thought just getting Data away from Data’s ship and crew mates Data would be helpless.
As just an Android, Fashta would be right. This shows us that Data can think outside the perimeters of his programming. He can think and reason for himself.