@@The_Old_Wolf Regardless of what Data said, you do understand that he experienced a certain satisfaction in preventing a murderer from going free and escaping Justice.
Data made a calculation. His positronic brain did the calculations. The needs of the many, out-way the needs of the few. One death vs many. His calculations were correct. AND HE DID NOT LIE.....Riker said the weapon was "in a state of discharge". At the time of transport, the weapon had NOT discharged. He may have been microseconds away from 'pulling the trigger' . and he was transported during that time. In those microseconds, perhaps his ethical program would have prevented him from carrying out his "calculation" The point is.... WE DON'T KNOW.
People miss the growth in this scene. Data lies. He understands why he did what he did. He understands the crew would experience a dilemma if their android murdered a man. He understands that he absolutely intended to kill. And he lies. To make the situation easier. Clean. Safe. I feel at that very moment, data was closer to human than we've ever seen him.
The funniest thing is that Leisurelee believes she has some sort of unique ability to understand *what is completely easy to understand.* She wants others to see her as more artsy-fartsy than the rest of us lol I can't imagine anyone missing anything here haha
I like around 2:50 when Fajo means a "it's a puzzle for you" you see Data looking away as if his ethical and moral subroutines are trying to figure out the best course of action but keep running into conflicts until he finally comes to his "I cannot allow this to continue" conclusion. Very subtle look. Love it.
Data gave me chills in this episode. He shows he can override his own programming if his gut tells him it's the thing to do. He can be a killer if need be. His blank face and white lies makes it all the more terrifying and terrific.
It is nt his guts, it is basic progamming for survival. If he's threatened, he'll defend himself. He's damaged in Insurrection by weapon fires from Son'a, so replicates. Even if he still does know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, it is the only directive he can follow, basically Asimov's laws. He can't harm a living being unless the living being threatens him directly
@@danbhakta Wrong. He merely stated that something could have happened during transport. Across the universe, millions of events indeed occurred during the few seconds he was being transported. He stated a fact. Before you mention, it, please don't give me feminist/sjw/etc horseshit about "A lie of omission", and definitely don't pursue a legal career.
@@quoniam426 He indeed will defend himself but what was fascinating here was his realisation that, in all likelihood, Fajo would murder again. It's been many years since seeing the episode in full, but I believe by now he was able to circumvent Fajo's personal forcefield, and simply restrain him until he could place him in longer-term detention. As such, there would have been no "need" to kill Fajo, so the scene is rather weakly founded.
John Walker II Definitely. But, at the same time, I think the punishment he ultimately received was better. He built a criminal empire, making himself the ruler. He was feared by many, and built his ego on material things, getting rarer and rarer treasures so that he could prove, again and again, that he was the best. Then, after he kidnaps the wrong person, he loses his power, those who respected him, everything he ever valued. And he has to deal with the fact that he did that to himself.
Saul Rubinek's performance as Kivas Fajo is terrific. He's able to portray the character as someone who can go from one extreme to the other in a mere instant. He can be charming yet cold. Playful yet serious. Joyous yet ruthless. Behind his cheery facade is a deadly man. What makes it even more impressive is the short notice in which he was hired and the tragic circumstances surrounding the original actor who was cast in the role (David Rappaport) and his subsequent suicide days into filming.
Agreed. All you could do was hate him. Nothing fun or redeeming about his character at all. Just a insane manchild with money and toys and no scruples.
@Steven Makell I could write of Clinton and O ther but I shall keep this Star Trek. Definitely an ethical and also a moral question that might result with different answers.
I agree. However, Riker could not have known about the exact circumstances of Data to escape. Several times Data mentioned he is capable of using lethal force if necessary to escape or protect his own existence.
@@JamieM20001996 Riker knows enough about Data, and the situation he was in, to assume that Data was correct in attempting to use lethal force. The details will come out later. Then get filed away.
Episodes like these make it apparent that Data would probably have gained emotions on his own, even without the chip, had he remained active long enough.
@@christiangomez320 The only good thing about nemesis was the awesome battle between the Enterprise and Schimitar, VFX, and the prop and set design. The rest was appalingly bad
@@bilateralrope8643 Definitely some emotion. He lied to Riker; he was ashamed he had attempted to take a life with a horrible weapon (however justified)
The problem is: each time it will become a bit easier. Fajo confirmed it when he threatened to kill more people. The character had crossed a line, both of them knew it, and that is why Data chose to shoot him.
Probably one of my favorite Data episodes. What I always found fascinating about Brent's performance is that you can almost see the rage that Faja was talking about in Data.
It’s the intensity of the billions of calculations being made to determine the correct logical and moral solution. In a way, the most pre-meditated killing you can imagine.
@@tenhirankei The decision he made was utterly contrary to his programming. You could argue that he needed the extra time to basically override himself.
@IdleBigots Because of the 'Proximity Actuated Field' that Kivas was carrying with him, Data could in fact not disable/detain him - Data did indeed have to make the decision whether to end Fajo's life.
@@tenhirankei How long was he working through the conclusion, and how long was he recording evidence to demonstrate that his actions were completely justified?
Would not hold it against Data. At least he would not suffer PTSD. He killed to prevent future Murders, poses an interesting question of how an Android Brain resolves moral and ethical questions
I don't think Data's ethical programming freaked out. It was just ruling out options as Fajo showed that he would not be threatened by Data. Until only one option remained.
If anything this was a supremely ethical decision on Data's part. Take a chance that many more could die at the hands of this madman.... Or assure the safety of those lives at the cost of only one... To Data it would be a simple mathematical equation..
Brent Spiner's arm doesn't move during the entire scene, indicating that AT NO POINT during Fajo's extended taunting ramble does Data take "kill this asshole" off his menu of options.
Poor Varia she didn't deserve to die is such a brutal and painful manner as the Varon-T disruptor tore her apart from the inside out over a period of several seconds. Fajo really was a sadist to use such a horrific and illegal weapon.
In the Decipher CCG of Star Trek, each character card has stats according to Integrity (how "good" or trusted they are) Cunning and Strength. Fajo's card is the only one with ZERO Integrity, making him the most evil character in the game (more so than people like Lore).
It would've been more satisfying to see a monster like Fajo get his, but watching Data grow as a character is the better avenue of storytelling. Also, Riker obviously knew he was lying and he just didn't confront him on it because of their mutual respect and trust. Great episode!
My love for Data escalates every time I watch this episode. I love this fantastic scene, and all of those quick moments where Data was playing with bits of Fajo's collection (the Mona Lisa, the alien, etc).
Data perhaps cannot respond emotionally to Fajo's taunts. But he can calculate that if he doesn't kill Fajo, Fajo will go on murdering others to coerce his compliance. One who is guilty of murder, his life exchanged for the many innocent who will die if he continues not to be apprehended... or killed.
They both wanted that hairdryer. The man was thinking: '' I must have that. My hair is the legend of my world''. The woman said to herself: '' I have more hair, they are longer and thicker, i need it more than him''. But there can be only one hairdryer user in the galaxy.
My favorite part from this episode. Data has always been the "more than human" character in the show, and this entire episode is what really wrapped it all together for me. I like to think that to some extent, he is able to feel emotions even though he can not understand them. For this entire episode, he was transformed into Fajo's play-thing and he is in a constant battle of patience with him. They both played the game of obedience and authority with one another. I firmly believe that Data had fired the weapon first as a result of everything else that had happened before. I like to think that, to some extent, Data felt rage, anger, and a desire for revenge for all the shit that Fajo put him through, even if he did not fully understand or know he was feeling those emotions. The thing that seals it all together is when he returns to the Enterprise and says a transporter error must have caused the weapon to discharge. He knew that if he had admitted to attempted murder he would be seriously reprimanded. That little white lie at the end is what really brings it all together. He knows damn good and well what he was doing, and he lied about it to keep himself protected. That's what makes me think he may be able to feel those types of emotions, but he may not be able to fully understand them. It's an interesting dichotomy that makes Data one of the best characters on the show. He's not human, but he's more human than most.
@@dphorgan Then he would not have lied about it. Data only lied once that I know off. And that was on the Captains orders, because he was the only one whose memory could not be altered. There are some debatable cases after he got the Emotion Chip, but this is no such case. He once explained to the Captain why he choose the Excomps Freedom over the Captains life, and was commended on his "most human" action yet.
@@christopherg2347 . Data did not know that he would be rescued, nor that Fajo would be apprehended when he fired the weapon, it was the only way he could obey his "fundamental respect for all living beings" after Fajo had threatened to commit more murders. Data only lied about discharging the weapon after being told that Fajo's was to be arrested, knowing that his testimony could be brought into question and Fajo, potentially, being set free for it. Data's "fundamental respect for all living beings" would compel him to do what he can to prevent such a person from escaping justice.
@@MahsaKaerra "Data did not know that he would be rescued" Possibly. But then why would Data lie about *that* he fired that weapon to the 1st Officer? I mean it could be a bit of a ideological mistake by the writers, but Brent Spiner was very diligent over how he played this Character. And Data does not lie, unless explicitly ordered to by his captain.
Data is capable of killing but only if it's justified. having seem the girl who helped him die horribly he calculated that killing that horrible shit was protecting others from suffering.
That's why Riker gave him that knowing stare. He knew that Data was, more than likely, about to execute that man, and probably would've done the exact same thing. But he cannot say so.
Exactly. The casual way in which Fajo said he would kill someone else if Data didn't comply, pointing to his random crewmember. Data calculated in that moment the only way to stop further killing is to stop the source - Fajo. Eliminate Fajo, and nobody else dies. Its a cold way of looking at it - but its also true.
I loved this episode soo much because of the ending of this clip. Data made a emotional decision. The collector killed someone and would kill again. He debated the repercussions and came to the conclusion that he had to kill. Even though he was a Star Fleet Officer and killing someone in that way is against their code, Data chose to go against those laws and attempted to MURDER him. And then he lies to Commander Rikers face about the attempted murder, saying the scan must be malfunctioning. And props to the actor of Riker for selling the "bullshit" face when Data says it. In Bret Spiner - Data and Beyond, he discusses his own thoughts on the emotion chip in the films and can understand why fans didnt like it. I come back to this episode because it was the first time, not counting the Borg episode where Lore showed up and made Data feel rage and anger, that Data displays real emotion on a level. We see it in another episode where he makes a mistake and sulks in his quarters. His pride tells Data he did nothing wrong, and he cant understand why he failed. Crusher, Troi and the other woman doctor all mention how, if Data were human, they'd say his pride was wounded. Great series. Great actor. Great story. Shame that Discovery cant capture the same hooks and draw fans in. Instead opting for stealing a story from a indie game and attacking its core audience who have issues with the forced diversity and identity politics. Now if you'll excuse me, im off to re-watch TNG.
Very nicely explained journey of Data's emotional development, thanks for your input on this episode, that for the fans seems to be highly contentious. Cheers Man, personally I agree with your conclusions.
Remember Data and Lore are brothers. Data has a conscience. In this case that conscience dictated that evil must be thwarted. Data is just as capable of violence as Lore is. Or if you prefer; "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
Proper explanation mate, so many others on this thread just don't get it.... It had nothing to do with balancing ethical sub routines it was emotion pure and simple hatred and revenge and then lied about it and actually lied to a superior officer!! .... Data can't do that, that's the wow moment ...or can he? He never actually carried out the act.... That's the point it leaves you hanging. Brilliant acting brilliant writing and as you already said Riker brought it home and even O'Brian if I remember correctly...... Genius. They certainly don't make them like that anymore. And people wonder why fans have issue with new "trek". Cheers mate have a good day 😁
Data is one of the most emotional characters on TNG. He was bereft of no emotion. He is thought provoking, caring, soulful, and will be a rock when the time is right.
TNG has some badass background music whenever something evil is going down! Great subtle performance by Saul Rubinek, showing he genuinely wrestled with his conscience before murdering his sweet female companion, but overrides it!
Saul was a last-minute recast (Rappaport committed suicide :( ) and the season 3 blu-ray will have the footage Rappaport filmed, so it will be nice to see character differences, but Saul's performance was definitely solid, fitting the story perfectly. Their interactions, Brent and Saul, as you said, really do work well. A followup was needed. If Data was trying to be human, if Riker and O'brien decided there was foul play, they could easily wring a story out of that. 2 decades too late...
If you have watched the original series, this episode calls back to the episode where the god Vaal tells its' followers how to kill even though they don't understand the concept. Spock makes the observation that it is the first step for that race in becoming truly human - they have learned to kill.
Five seconds of sheer agony mind as the beam supposedly incinerated her from the inside out. Other disruptors kill much more quickly like a Romulan disruptor disintegrates its victim in less than a second just like phasers do.
If I wanted to horrifically kill someone, I'd shoot that person with a bullet so that they would slowly bleed out instead of any energy weapon from Trek.
I understand why they had to kill Varria...it went well with the theme of the episode. Data struggling with his ethical subroutines...I wish, however, that they didn't kill her. Poor thing was capture by Fajo when she was only a child and was prisoner there for years only to die at the end.
Fajo made a mistake when he framed his potential death as murder. By threatening others unless Data continued to do as told, after having murdered one of his own crew members, he sealed his fate. Fajo had made it clear that we was certainly capable of and planning to continue his behavior in the future. Stopping that behavior now, when Data had what might be his one opportunity, wasn’t necessarily an act of revenge, but also the moral imperative.
I honestly found it satisfying how scared Kivas was when Data was serious about killing him and in the end where his collection is gone while also serving prison with nothing
well, the borg invasion at wolf 359 , with no data.... the borg win. Data uses his own internal CPU to send the borg into re-gen mode. He also stops picard/locutus from breaking out of the Enterprise lab and taking over it's computers. or Picard taking the stargazer (under ferengi mind control) and Riker having to find out a way to win without killing picard. That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but there are more. The question is do you want in relation to this episode or not, as well as time travel count?
Riker calmly standing there, holding the disruptor infamous for the agonizing death it can cause, with the barrel aimed directly at his hand after Data informs him that it seemingly just discharged unexpectedly.
"My human life preservation directive forbids me to harm, or by omission of action, allow to be harmed, a sentient life. Your continued existence is a direct threat to sentient life. Therefore, your existence must be *concluded* ."
@@Stettafire The Zeroth Law was something that developed in Azimov's work - safeguarding humanity over humans, as human safety overrides human orders (where the First and Second interact), and human orders override robot "life" (where the Second and Third interact). It doesn't show up in most of his work, but it's there in a couple of stories.
I think this comes close to showing moral complexity for Data. If the show were made in the present I do believe we would have seen more of this type of episode.
I could be wrong about this, but I think this is the first time that Data ever managed to access the one side of humanity that he has never attempted to understand....and that is the dark side of being human. I.E, rage, the need for revenge and personal justice. For a moment there, he was closer to being human than he has ever been.
This was one dark-toned but tremendous episode and an absolutely knockout performance by Saul Rubinek. It’s one of the more overlooked episodes of TNG but come to think of it, it is one of the darkest. The main antagonist, played by Rubinek, is a dangerous sociopath, completely unhindered by moral or empathy. Actually, the writing and the acting was so good that it wouldn’t be surprised me if they consulted a criminal psychologist to help bring realism. I reckon they’ve succeeded. In the end, of course, even Data, played to perfection by the equally brilliant Brent Spiner, deduces that the only way this evil can ever end is to violate his own programming and kill him. The Enterprise arrives just in time and Data decides not to reveal what had really happened In the end, denoting he too has limits and is more similar to a real person than he thought possible. The episode is cold as ice, brutal and unforgiving. I’d also like to acknowledge the brilliant music with simply chilling harmonic textures. Man, they really went all the way with this one.
"No matter how desperate things get, never forget; we're Starfleet officers!" -Captain Garth(from Axanar teaser trailer voiced by Alec Peters) Data was desperate to end Fajo's manipulations, and thievery, and slavery and Fajo committed cold-blooded murder.
i know right? data didnt know he was about to be rescued. he only knew it was him and that creep and every moment he let that guy live, he could kill someone else. i wish data hadnt been beamed up so soon. he deserved to take him down. starfleet is armed to the teeth for as passive as the prime directive is but we can't have data liberate a ship with out being labeled a murderer.
Always remember Paul Rieser for the part he played in the film My Beautiful Son which was based in my hometown. Great film wonderful actor sadly missed.
It is morally correct. That is the point. Data says, "I cannot allow this to continue." He realizes he has a moral obligation to kill Fajo to stop him from continuing to abuse others. The reason Data isn't shown killing Fajo is because TNG has a sense of DECENCY.
Damn, he almost talked himself into getting shot. Data's logic circuts were working overtime and Fajo was giving him all the (pardon the pun) data points he needed to justify an execution to prevent further harm and suffering. Really as soon as Fajo said "I'll kill someone else, him, who cares" that should have been enough.
This was such a great episode. I wish the episodes had been given more continuity and that it had run 10 seasons. Look what we have now? JJ Abrams destroying franchises left and right, and Discovery, complete and utter BS. Real sad.
Episodes like this prove that the emotion chip was not needed. Data was humiliated and treated awfully by Fajo and he reacted in his own way. Just because his emotional reaction were not similar to humans it doesn’t mean he didn’t have them - in my opinion all the emotion chip did was undermine the growth done in these episodes.
@@Zoras88 I was referring to a character from Doctor Who (Episode: "Dalek") who was similar to Fajo: Henry Van Statten. Has a massive collection, has no concern for anyone other than himself, and has no problem getting rid of people who offend him (doesn't kill them but casually has their memory wiped and has them dumped off in a city to live as a homeless person). Even when faced with deaths of millions due to his actions his only concern was for himself.
"Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander."
I mean he’s not technically wrong; something DID happen during the start of the transport
"I do not feel pleasure. I am only an android" is high on the list as well.
@@The_Old_Wolf
Regardless of what Data said, you do understand that he experienced a certain satisfaction in preventing a murderer from going free and escaping Justice.
Data made a calculation. His positronic brain did the calculations. The needs of the many, out-way the needs of the few. One death vs many. His calculations were correct.
AND HE DID NOT LIE.....Riker said the weapon was "in a state of discharge". At the time of transport, the weapon had NOT discharged. He may have been microseconds away from 'pulling the trigger' . and he was transported during that time. In those microseconds, perhaps his ethical program would have prevented him from carrying out his "calculation" The point is.... WE DON'T KNOW.
Data is more than just a machine. Fajo was a terrible man with no morals. If Data did fire that weapon, it shows how despicable Fajo was.
People miss the growth in this scene.
Data lies.
He understands why he did what he did.
He understands the crew would experience a dilemma if their android murdered a man.
He understands that he absolutely intended to kill.
And he lies. To make the situation easier. Clean. Safe.
I feel at that very moment, data was closer to human than we've ever seen him.
Except he didn't lie. He just didn't tell the truth.
@@jzaroh2004 And if anything, that's the most human thing of all.
exactly,, i love the end scene, where he says i dont feel pleasure,, i am only an android,
Can one call it murder? Fajo murdered someone in front of Data. He threatened to repeat it to coerce Data's servitude for as long as he lives.
The funniest thing is that Leisurelee believes she has some sort of unique ability to understand *what is completely easy to understand.*
She wants others to see her as more artsy-fartsy than the rest of us lol
I can't imagine anyone missing anything here haha
I like around 2:50 when Fajo means a "it's a puzzle for you" you see Data looking away as if his ethical and moral subroutines are trying to figure out the best course of action but keep running into conflicts until he finally comes to his "I cannot allow this to continue" conclusion. Very subtle look. Love it.
How many people wished that Data hadn't been beamed up till after the blast hit Farjo?!?!? *_Raises hand without shame_*
They could've at least showed the beam being emitted so Farjo knew he was being shot but of course special effects budget.
It definitely would have been interesting. However, I find the ending perfect.
Hand raised.
Yeah Data should have vaped his ass
It´s the best Star Trek style of preserving life and sending a Message :)
Data gave me chills in this episode. He shows he can override his own programming if his gut tells him it's the thing to do. He can be a killer if need be. His blank face and white lies makes it all the more terrifying and terrific.
It is nt his guts, it is basic progamming for survival. If he's threatened, he'll defend himself. He's damaged in Insurrection by weapon fires from Son'a, so replicates. Even if he still does know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, it is the only directive he can follow, basically Asimov's laws. He can't harm a living being unless the living being threatens him directly
The underlying message is that he lied about it...irrelevant of the righteousness of the cause.
@@danbhakta Wrong. He merely stated that something could have happened during transport. Across the universe, millions of events indeed occurred during the few seconds he was being transported. He stated a fact. Before you mention, it, please don't give me feminist/sjw/etc horseshit about "A lie of omission", and definitely don't pursue a legal career.
@@quoniam426 He indeed will defend himself but what was fascinating here was his realisation that, in all likelihood, Fajo would murder again. It's been many years since seeing the episode in full, but I believe by now he was able to circumvent Fajo's personal forcefield, and simply restrain him until he could place him in longer-term detention. As such, there would have been no "need" to kill Fajo, so the scene is rather weakly founded.
Quo Niam what do you mean?
Farjo talked himself into an execution there.
Fajo was an absolute scumbag, manipulative narcissistic piece of crap. A real psychopath. That guy deserved to die.
I wouldn't have hesitated to vaporize his ass. Of course, I'm not an Android with an ethical subroutine
John Walker II Definitely. But, at the same time, I think the punishment he ultimately received was better. He built a criminal empire, making himself the ruler. He was feared by many, and built his ego on material things, getting rarer and rarer treasures so that he could prove, again and again, that he was the best. Then, after he kidnaps the wrong person, he loses his power, those who respected him, everything he ever valued. And he has to deal with the fact that he did that to himself.
Does it has to be a vaporize or not vaporize dichotomy? Can't I just use the weapon to stump one of his feet, cut off just a little beneath the knee?
@@oriklein2218 they established that weapon as being so brutal that its banned . The only setting it had was lethal
Saul Rubinek's performance as Kivas Fajo is terrific. He's able to portray the character as someone who can go from one extreme to the other in a mere instant. He can be charming yet cold. Playful yet serious. Joyous yet ruthless. Behind his cheery facade is a deadly man.
What makes it even more impressive is the short notice in which he was hired and the tragic circumstances surrounding the original actor who was cast in the role (David Rappaport) and his subsequent suicide days into filming.
... *crosses himself*
They actually filmed with two actors for that part, there are comparisons of the scenes on UA-cam.
He's a sociopath.
He looks like the poor mans Colin Farrell.
Had no idea about the Rappaport story. Thanks for the info, really sad stuff.
Loved Saul Rubinek in this episode. His character was so despicable and he played it so well.
Agreed. All you could do was hate him. Nothing fun or redeeming about his character at all. Just a insane manchild with money and toys and no scruples.
I actually liked him.
@Steven Makell I could write of Clinton and O ther but I shall keep this Star Trek.
Definitely an ethical and also a moral question that might result with different answers.
@@ProperLogicalDebate exactly. It's a show. Enjoy it.
@Steven Makell nah, he was smarter than Trump.
This is one of the best Data episodes. I think this is a great episode and well acted.
It couldn't be said better...
Even as a kid I knew that Riker didn't believe what Data said about the phaser discharging.
I agree. However, Riker could not have known about the exact circumstances of Data to escape. Several times Data mentioned he is capable of using lethal force if necessary to escape or protect his own existence.
That's not a phaser. That's a disrupter. No "stun" setting like a phaser.
And also absolutely did not give a fuck. 😅
@@JamieM20001996 Riker knows enough about Data, and the situation he was in, to assume that Data was correct in attempting to use lethal force.
The details will come out later. Then get filed away.
Episodes like these make it apparent that Data would probably have gained emotions on his own, even without the chip, had he remained active long enough.
Data showed no emotion here. Just cold logic.
@Bilateralrope What's the logic behind lying about his decision to fire? Data was a badass
Nemesis never happened and neither did ST: Picard
@@christiangomez320 The only good thing about nemesis was the awesome battle between the Enterprise and Schimitar, VFX, and the prop and set design. The rest was appalingly bad
@@bilateralrope8643 Definitely some emotion. He lied to Riker; he was ashamed he had attempted to take a life with a horrible weapon (however justified)
I like how, once he saw how Varia suffered, he threw the disruptor away in horror and disgust. He’d never used it on a person before.
The problem is: each time it will become a bit easier. Fajo confirmed it when he threatened to kill more people. The character had crossed a line, both of them knew it, and that is why Data chose to shoot him.
Probably one of my favorite Data episodes. What I always found fascinating about Brent's performance is that you can almost see the rage that Faja was talking about in Data.
It’s the intensity of the billions of calculations being made to determine the correct logical and moral solution. In a way, the most pre-meditated killing you can imagine.
"I cannot permit this to continue..."
Data "solved" the intellectual puzzle! But with the number of computations he can run, it shouldn't take too long to reach that conclusion.
@@tenhirankei The decision he made was utterly contrary to his programming. You could argue that he needed the extra time to basically override himself.
@IdleBigots Yep, the "kill him or leave him" dilemma was definitely chosen for dramatic purposes.
@IdleBigots Because of the 'Proximity Actuated Field' that Kivas was carrying with him, Data could in fact not disable/detain him - Data did indeed have to make the decision whether to end Fajo's life.
@@tenhirankei How long was he working through the conclusion, and how long was he recording evidence to demonstrate that his actions were completely justified?
This episode proves Data experiences more emotions than even he realizes.
This is the only character that really made Data's ethical programming freak out.
Would not hold it against Data. At least he would not suffer PTSD. He killed to prevent future Murders, poses an interesting question of how an Android Brain resolves moral and ethical questions
I don't think Data's ethical programming freaked out. It was just ruling out options as Fajo showed that he would not be threatened by Data. Until only one option remained.
@*Hérétic "Or the one."
If anything this was a supremely ethical decision on Data's part.
Take a chance that many more could die at the hands of this madman....
Or assure the safety of those lives at the cost of only one...
To Data it would be a simple mathematical equation..
Brent Spiner's arm doesn't move during the entire scene, indicating that AT NO POINT during Fajo's extended taunting ramble does Data take "kill this asshole" off his menu of options.
Data shot first
SheldonAdama17 no Han shot first.
no Fajo shot first he killed Varia
@@JessHull FAJO: Sorry 'bout the mess.
Lol ha Greedo goes down again!!!
There is a decided difference between murder and execution.
Commander Data made the right choice.
Poor Varia she didn't deserve to die is such a brutal and painful manner as the Varon-T disruptor tore her apart from the inside out over a period of several seconds. Fajo really was a sadist to use such a horrific and illegal weapon.
Really one of the darkest moments in Star Trek history. You don't get modern BSG without this.
BSG?
Battlestar Galactica.
She should not have died!!!
Ahh, a fellow Robotech fan.Cheers!
In the Decipher CCG of Star Trek, each character card has stats according to Integrity (how "good" or trusted they are) Cunning and Strength. Fajo's card is the only one with ZERO Integrity, making him the most evil character in the game (more so than people like Lore).
Dude, you have to get a girlfriend.
@@stevehodgkins8801 Major projection detected.
I'll never forget the first showing of this in UK. The brutality of this scene is impressively written and performed.
The episode that proved what Data really was, more than a machine.
This episode is why, even after decades, STNG is so worthy of consideration.
I have every reason to believe that if Riker had the chance, he would've immediately sent Data back with the phaser and looked the other way.
It would've been more satisfying to see a monster like Fajo get his, but watching Data grow as a character is the better avenue of storytelling. Also, Riker obviously knew he was lying and he just didn't confront him on it because of their mutual respect and trust.
Great episode!
My love for Data escalates every time I watch this episode. I love this fantastic scene, and all of those quick moments where Data was playing with bits of Fajo's collection (the Mona Lisa, the alien, etc).
I love when Data lies. "Perhaps an anomaly occurred..." -walks away-
Plausible deniability
Lying is such an ugly word. I prefer to say, "accentuate the positive."
Data should have just told Fajo about Lore. Fajo can capture Lore, and they then deserve each other....
ooh damn where's that fanfic?
They still thought Lore was dead at that point.
Maybe, but part of the appeal was having stuff no one else had, so that likely wouldn't have satisfied Fajo.
at that point Fajo went to space prison. He would have just for having those disrupter pistols in his possession.
Lore doesn't have the internal conflicts that data has, especially with things like killing or morals. Also was considered dead at this point
Data perhaps cannot respond emotionally to Fajo's taunts. But he can calculate that if he doesn't kill Fajo, Fajo will go on murdering others to coerce his compliance. One who is guilty of murder, his life exchanged for the many innocent who will die if he continues not to be apprehended... or killed.
They both wanted that hairdryer. The man was thinking: '' I must have that. My hair is the legend of my world''. The woman said to herself: '' I have more hair, they are longer and thicker, i need it more than him''. But there can be only one hairdryer user in the galaxy.
Underrated comment.
My favorite part from this episode. Data has always been the "more than human" character in the show, and this entire episode is what really wrapped it all together for me. I like to think that to some extent, he is able to feel emotions even though he can not understand them. For this entire episode, he was transformed into Fajo's play-thing and he is in a constant battle of patience with him. They both played the game of obedience and authority with one another.
I firmly believe that Data had fired the weapon first as a result of everything else that had happened before. I like to think that, to some extent, Data felt rage, anger, and a desire for revenge for all the shit that Fajo put him through, even if he did not fully understand or know he was feeling those emotions. The thing that seals it all together is when he returns to the Enterprise and says a transporter error must have caused the weapon to discharge. He knew that if he had admitted to attempted murder he would be seriously reprimanded.
That little white lie at the end is what really brings it all together. He knows damn good and well what he was doing, and he lied about it to keep himself protected. That's what makes me think he may be able to feel those types of emotions, but he may not be able to fully understand them. It's an interesting dichotomy that makes Data one of the best characters on the show. He's not human, but he's more human than most.
Fajo pretty much talked him into it
Love this episode..Brent is an amazing actor. ..Data totally fired.
No shit Sherlock. They sensed the discharge in the transport signal...
@@dphorgan Then he would not have lied about it. Data only lied once that I know off. And that was on the Captains orders, because he was the only one whose memory could not be altered. There are some debatable cases after he got the Emotion Chip, but this is no such case.
He once explained to the Captain why he choose the Excomps Freedom over the Captains life, and was commended on his "most human" action yet.
@@christopherg2347 . Data did not know that he would be rescued, nor that Fajo would be apprehended when he fired the weapon, it was the only way he could obey his "fundamental respect for all living beings" after Fajo had threatened to commit more murders.
Data only lied about discharging the weapon after being told that Fajo's was to be arrested, knowing that his testimony could be brought into question and Fajo, potentially, being set free for it. Data's "fundamental respect for all living beings" would compel him to do what he can to prevent such a person from escaping justice.
@@MahsaKaerra "Data did not know that he would be rescued" Possibly. But then why would Data lie about *that* he fired that weapon to the 1st Officer?
I mean it could be a bit of a ideological mistake by the writers, but Brent Spiner was very diligent over how he played this Character. And Data does not lie, unless explicitly ordered to by his captain.
He did not lie, he simply said: "Perhaps something has happened during the transport." He was referring to extenuating circumstances.
Data is capable of killing but only if it's justified. having seem the girl who helped him die horribly he calculated that killing that horrible shit was protecting others from suffering.
That's why Riker gave him that knowing stare. He knew that Data was, more than likely, about to execute that man, and probably would've done the exact same thing.
But he cannot say so.
Exactly. The casual way in which Fajo said he would kill someone else if Data didn't comply, pointing to his random crewmember. Data calculated in that moment the only way to stop further killing is to stop the source - Fajo. Eliminate Fajo, and nobody else dies. Its a cold way of looking at it - but its also true.
I loved this episode soo much because of the ending of this clip. Data made a emotional decision. The collector killed someone and would kill again. He debated the repercussions and came to the conclusion that he had to kill. Even though he was a Star Fleet Officer and killing someone in that way is against their code, Data chose to go against those laws and attempted to MURDER him. And then he lies to Commander Rikers face about the attempted murder, saying the scan must be malfunctioning. And props to the actor of Riker for selling the "bullshit" face when Data says it.
In Bret Spiner - Data and Beyond, he discusses his own thoughts on the emotion chip in the films and can understand why fans didnt like it. I come back to this episode because it was the first time, not counting the Borg episode where Lore showed up and made Data feel rage and anger, that Data displays real emotion on a level. We see it in another episode where he makes a mistake and sulks in his quarters. His pride tells Data he did nothing wrong, and he cant understand why he failed. Crusher, Troi and the other woman doctor all mention how, if Data were human, they'd say his pride was wounded.
Great series. Great actor. Great story. Shame that Discovery cant capture the same hooks and draw fans in. Instead opting for stealing a story from a indie game and attacking its core audience who have issues with the forced diversity and identity politics. Now if you'll excuse me, im off to re-watch TNG.
Very nicely explained journey of Data's emotional development, thanks for your input on this episode, that for the fans seems to be highly contentious. Cheers Man, personally I agree with your conclusions.
Remember Data and Lore are brothers. Data has a conscience. In this case that conscience dictated that evil must be thwarted. Data is just as capable of violence as Lore is.
Or if you prefer; "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
Proper explanation mate, so many others on this thread just don't get it.... It had nothing to do with balancing ethical sub routines it was emotion pure and simple hatred and revenge and then lied about it and actually lied to a superior officer!! .... Data can't do that, that's the wow moment ...or can he? He never actually carried out the act.... That's the point it leaves you hanging. Brilliant acting brilliant writing and as you already said Riker brought it home and even O'Brian if I remember correctly...... Genius. They certainly don't make them like that anymore.
And people wonder why fans have issue with new "trek".
Cheers mate have a good day 😁
He's a smart man. No one can deny that, but plain and simple, he overplayed his hand.
And he paid the price.
This was truly one of the best Episodes. A great story, and astonishing acting by both Saul Rubinek and Brent Spiner.
Absolutely. Just watched DS9. Rubinek is up there with weyoun
@@stevencoardvenice - Oh really?
I'll need to take a look.
Data is one of the most emotional characters on TNG. He was bereft of no emotion. He is thought provoking, caring, soulful, and will be a rock when the time is right.
Outstanding episode well done Brent Spiner he truly is a gifted actor.
3:27 Riker's expression: Data, what the hell are you wearing?
Or "what kind of 'anomaly' causes a weapon's discharge?"
I really miss him. One of the most iconic characters Star Trek has ever created. Sad that he cease to exist. Very sad!
That was always one of my favorite episodes... Splendid performance by Saul rubinek and Brent spiner
That's the shadiest data's ever been.
Data should've just said "Yes, it was." when Riker inquired that the weapon had been discharged.
TNG has some badass background music whenever something evil is going down! Great subtle performance by Saul Rubinek, showing he genuinely wrestled with his conscience before murdering his sweet female companion, but overrides it!
1:02 He's a child who just HAD TO try out his toy. And once he realized the consequences to his actions, he had to shift the blame to someone else.
This episode straight-up traumatized me!
POWERFUL stuff!
One of the most important scenes in all of Star Trek.
I never noticed before the look of surprise on Riker's face as Data starts to materialize.
Why? Data is able and allowed to use lethal force if necessary.
@@danielhausser8038 Only under certain circumstances such as self preservation or preservation of others. He's programmed to respect all life.
Data's cut is so fresh.
Saul was a last-minute recast (Rappaport committed suicide :( ) and the season 3 blu-ray will have the footage Rappaport filmed, so it will be nice to see character differences, but Saul's performance was definitely solid, fitting the story perfectly. Their interactions, Brent and Saul, as you said, really do work well.
A followup was needed. If Data was trying to be human, if Riker and O'brien decided there was foul play, they could easily wring a story out of that. 2 decades too late...
And with that Data takes his very first steps to being human. Great episode!
If you have watched the original series, this episode calls back to the episode where the god Vaal tells its' followers how to kill even though they don't understand the concept. Spock makes the observation that it is the first step for that race in becoming truly human - they have learned to kill.
Wow. Thanks for posting this. Loved this ep, TNG really hit its stride in season 3. Saul Rubinek is a brilliant character actor, so underrated.
Five seconds of sheer agony mind as the beam supposedly incinerated her from the inside out. Other disruptors kill much more quickly like a Romulan disruptor disintegrates its victim in less than a second just like phasers do.
Honestly it sounds like something a wackjob type dictator type came up with for horrifying execution purposes.
Those were early disruptors versions. Federartion order their entire destruction after modern versions that can cause less pain. So very few survived.
If I wanted to horrifically kill someone, I'd shoot that person with a bullet so that they would slowly bleed out instead of any energy weapon from Trek.
Hartzilla2007: Meh, even primitive humans came up with far more painful and prolonged execution methods that made it last for days or weeks.
@@bilateralrope8643, yeh, was just thinking that this afternoon standing in line for a soda refill.
"You're becoming more human all the time, Data. Now, you're learning how to lie..."
TNG and Spiner never quite the respect they deserved - but for the hard core fans who understood.
I met Saul Rubinek once at a convention, he said that Brent Spiner was hilarious to work with.
I understand why they had to kill Varria...it went well with the theme of the episode. Data struggling with his ethical subroutines...I wish, however, that they didn't kill her. Poor thing was capture by Fajo when she was only a child and was prisoner there for years only to die at the end.
Truly one of the best TNG episodes. Saul Rubinek does an amazing job, and steals the show even from Spiner.
One of my favorite episodes.
Fajo made a mistake when he framed his potential death as murder. By threatening others unless Data continued to do as told, after having murdered one of his own crew members, he sealed his fate. Fajo had made it clear that we was certainly capable of and planning to continue his behavior in the future. Stopping that behavior now, when Data had what might be his one opportunity, wasn’t necessarily an act of revenge, but also the moral imperative.
He says, ‘I cannot allow this to continue’ to himself.
I honestly found it satisfying how scared Kivas was when Data was serious about killing him and in the end where his collection is gone while also serving prison with nothing
Riker owes his entire career to Data.
fuckin eh he let this one slide.
+Equal Charlie Why does Riker owe his career to Data? Prior to this episode?
well, the borg invasion at wolf 359 , with no data.... the borg win. Data uses his own internal CPU to send the borg into re-gen mode. He also stops picard/locutus from breaking out of the Enterprise lab and taking over it's computers.
or Picard taking the stargazer (under ferengi mind control) and Riker having to find out a way to win without killing picard.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but there are more. The question is do you want in relation to this episode or not, as well as time travel count?
O'Brian really needed some more screen time in TNG, at least he got his due in DS9
This should be part of Data's "Deadly Force" protocol Data has mentioned. The guy says he's just going to go on disintegrating humanoids,
I LOVE that shade of velvet! Whether curtains, upholstery, or bedding, I'd love to have that material. I just came here to say that. :-)
This why sometimes it's best to leave a show alone you can't recreate the environment this show shine in !
Riker calmly standing there, holding the disruptor infamous for the agonizing death it can cause, with the barrel aimed directly at his hand after Data informs him that it seemingly just discharged unexpectedly.
I love that ambiguous ending!
What ambiguity?
"My human life preservation directive forbids me to harm, or by omission of action, allow to be harmed, a sentient life. Your continued existence is a direct threat to sentient life. Therefore, your existence must be *concluded* ."
It's interesting because that sounds like an Azimov line
@@Stettafire The Zeroth Law was something that developed in Azimov's work - safeguarding humanity over humans, as human safety overrides human orders (where the First and Second interact), and human orders override robot "life" (where the Second and Third interact). It doesn't show up in most of his work, but it's there in a couple of stories.
Love the poker eyes between Data and Riker at the end...
There was a lot of tension in this scene as Data listened and considered his options.
Careful he may not be able to feel 'rage' but he can hell simulate it.
Saul Rubinek was a last-minute re-cast - Christ, did they get LUCKY.
From whimsy to menace and back again... he would have made a terrifying Q...
For a guy with no emotions, Data has always been able to bring out mine.
I think this comes close to showing moral complexity for Data. If the show were made in the present I do believe we would have seen more of this type of episode.
Spock asks, "A lie?"
Data answers, "An exaggeration."
I love Star Trek the next Generation! Some of the older Star Trek was OK, but this show was much better.
Had a conversation today about the exact same thing with a TOS fan. Obviously he was wrong.
That glance exchanged between O’Brien and Riker says it all!
For one moment Data just thought "To hell with my Subroutines."
I could be wrong about this, but I think this is the first time that Data ever managed to access the one side of humanity that he has never attempted to understand....and that is the dark side of being human. I.E, rage, the need for revenge and personal justice. For a moment there, he was closer to being human than he has ever been.
There was no rage. No revenge. Just cold logic, the understanding that Faja had to be stopped and no other options.
This was one dark-toned but tremendous episode and an absolutely knockout performance by Saul Rubinek. It’s one of the more overlooked episodes of TNG but come to think of it, it is one of the darkest. The main antagonist, played by Rubinek, is a dangerous sociopath, completely unhindered by moral or empathy. Actually, the writing and the acting was so good that it wouldn’t be surprised me if they consulted a criminal psychologist to help bring realism. I reckon they’ve succeeded. In the end, of course, even Data, played to perfection by the equally brilliant Brent Spiner, deduces that the only way this evil can ever end is to violate his own programming and kill him. The Enterprise arrives just in time and Data decides not to reveal what had really happened In the end, denoting he too has limits and is more similar to a real person than he thought possible. The episode is cold as ice, brutal and unforgiving. I’d also like to acknowledge the brilliant music with simply chilling harmonic textures. Man, they really went all the way with this one.
I agree. And it shows in the somewhat darker tone of DS9 which is what I love about it.
He finally rose to to true A.I. Able to extend and change his programmer's programming.
Yep, exactly why A.I. needs to end.
"No matter how desperate things get, never forget; we're Starfleet officers!"
-Captain Garth(from Axanar teaser trailer voiced by Alec Peters)
Data was desperate to end Fajo's manipulations, and thievery, and slavery and Fajo committed cold-blooded murder.
Though DS9 is my favorite Trek, it's mighty hard to beat TNG seasons 3 & 4.
I like a lot this episode.
I can feel in the air the digital anger of Data.
Here Data didn't need the emotion chip this time. I'm sure he would shoot.
0:45. Now that's a very vicious weapon he has no remorse at all
Yes he COULD, Riker, he even TRIED. 😜
I wouldn't tempt data with "you don't have the guts" he can do it that scares me enough.
Why was Riker surprised? (He knows Data can apply lethal force if necessary to escape or protect his own existence.)
i know right? data didnt know he was about to be rescued. he only knew it was him and that creep and every moment he let that guy live, he could kill someone else. i wish data hadnt been beamed up so soon. he deserved to take him down. starfleet is armed to the teeth for as passive as the prime directive is but we can't have data liberate a ship with out being labeled a murderer.
Always remember Paul Rieser for the part he played in the film My Beautiful Son which was based in my hometown. Great film wonderful actor sadly missed.
DarMok Channel what????
I cannot allow this to continue. Perfect scene for a cop or a soldier
It is morally correct. That is the point. Data says, "I cannot allow this to continue." He realizes he has a moral obligation to kill Fajo to stop him from continuing to abuse others. The reason Data isn't shown killing Fajo is because TNG has a sense of DECENCY.
(Data shoots while being transported)
Next scene is Riker's funeral.
Damn, he almost talked himself into getting shot. Data's logic circuts were working overtime and Fajo was giving him all the (pardon the pun) data points he needed to justify an execution to prevent further harm and suffering. Really as soon as Fajo said "I'll kill someone else, him, who cares" that should have been enough.
This was such a great episode. I wish the episodes had been given more continuity and that it had run 10 seasons. Look what we have now? JJ Abrams destroying franchises left and right, and Discovery, complete and utter BS. Real sad.
Very much agree, Thank You.
This episode really wrecked me when I saw it as a kid. Brilliant study of ethics and morals...
As Data's passive intimidation stat gets a permanent +10 bonus.
The best Star Trek episode ever!
Episodes like this prove that the emotion chip was not needed. Data was humiliated and treated awfully by Fajo and he reacted in his own way. Just because his emotional reaction were not similar to humans it doesn’t mean he didn’t have them - in my opinion all the emotion chip did was undermine the growth done in these episodes.
He later timetraveled to restart his collection, deciding to keep it in a Warehouse in South Dakota
Excellent Warehouse 13 reference, don’t see many of those.
How about an underground bunker in Utah?
@@Solitaire001 wrong actor
@@Zoras88 I was referring to a character from Doctor Who (Episode: "Dalek") who was similar to Fajo: Henry Van Statten. Has a massive collection, has no concern for anyone other than himself, and has no problem getting rid of people who offend him (doesn't kill them but casually has their memory wiped and has them dumped off in a city to live as a homeless person). Even when faced with deaths of millions due to his actions his only concern was for himself.