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I Quit As A Megachurch Pastor...
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2024
- After almost a decade of ministry in what could reasonably be termed the 'Mega Church Movement', I quit. Here's why, and my thoughts on the movement as a whole.
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I was a pastor at a church and left two years ago. One of the reasons I left was because when I joined the church five years prior, the pastor said if the church got to 500 or larger, he wanted to plant another church. Fast forward five years later and we grew to over 800 and had to go to three services because of the size of our building. When I brought up the point of planting another church, the pastor said he didn’t want to because “the people come to see me preach”. I knew right then, it was time to go and that same week, I resigned my position. Church is never about the pastor, but about glorifying Christ/God and the fellowship of believers.
Amen!!!!
Wow that’s sad. Praying for my church because it’s trending towards megachurch, maybe in a few years. There were talks about planting satellites with other pastors, but time will tell. 🙏🏾
Mega churches create the urge to be known as an important guy in the church. which leads to creating a kind of rockstar image of the main people. Real church is about humbling ourselves and looking unto God
AMEN!
It is said that if you did well in high school then you will do well in a megachurch.
Small churches create the urge to be known as an important guy in the church. Which leads to creating a kind of rockstar image of the main people. Real church is about humpling ourselves and looking unto God
Just to be clear, I don't like megachurches. I just think your comment is as unsubstantiated as they come, and the same thing can be said about smaller churches. It's not the church that makes people feel important. It's people who want to feel important a be a rockstar. In the church and outside of it. It's human nature.
Good and bad churches come in all shapes and sizes. It's an old problem, dating back to the very birth of the church. Thankfully, God knows them that are His, and we can leave ultimate judgment up to the Lord. :)@@banigrisson
Every Mega church pastor needs to listen to this video.
I remember someone asked John MacArthur what his church growth plan was. And John said, “I have no plan. This is the Lords church and He said that He would build His church”. Great answer.
Good video - thanks for sharing!! Watering down the gospel or biblical teaching to fit the world is something I’ve witnessed as an issue, even as someone fairly new to faith. Pray more churches stick to the word and not conform to the desires of the flesh to gain members.
We went to a small local church for Easter Sunday this year. The people were warm, the message was Biblical, and there was no "Megachurch" mega-sale vibe. Christ was honored. ❤
I went to a few megachurches in the UK, the fellowship was simply not there if you're older than 30. Hence many people leave megachurches for a smaller local church where they can get fellowship consistently.
What are your thoughts on the Mandela effect and have you ever been approached to cover it up?
Oh so just like megachurches here inthe states huh?
Having been a pastor at a mega church I can relate. I appreciate your heart for the purity of your church involvement. It’s refreshing. I’m a part of a local church and the heart to grow is still there and the church is vibrant.
You hit the nail on the head again, Jamie. Thank you. This needs to be discussed more and not many are in a position to do it. Thank you for being both obedient to Christ and gracious to your brothers.
I feel that "megachurches" tend to over emphasis "excellence". Always talking about "excellence" .... two problems I personally have with this emphasisis that "excellence" requires money. The best sound equipment, the best musical instruments, the best facilities, the best of everything - comes at a price! And as technology is continually advancing - keeping up with the "best" means that the demand for finances is never satisfied. Secondly, this emphasis on excellence means that most believers are then excluded from participating in the life of the church - they are not professionals, they are volunteers, they amateurs. If you want professional standards then you have to pay professionals - so churches now have to employ people full-time as professionals to do jobs that used to be done by volunteers - music directors, media directors, youth pastors, young adults pastors, children's pastors, personal assistants, maintanance staff, etc. And, of course, all these people need to be paid. And people are excluded from exercising their gifts and finding fulfillment God's kingdom because they are not "good enough". All God demands of me is that I be a "good and faithful servant" - and if being "good" at what I do is good enough for God, then "good" should be good enough for the pastor!
Nothing wrong with excellence. But it should be excellence in preaching and teaching.
@isaiahfenior1276 One of my favourite Scriptures is the passage in Genesis 1 - during the creation, whenever God created anything He said "It is good"; He did not say "It is perfect/excellent" - and, if "good" is good enough for God, then it is good enough for me! Yes, I know when God had finished everything then He said "It is very good" - Jesus Christ is still building His church and when HE has finished His work - then it will be "very good" - in the meantime .........
I think we need to first define what excellence is. I serve at smaller church and we strive to be excellent- seeing that as doing the absolute best with what we have: opportunities, equipment, people, time…
@@victoragun8751 I agree with doing one's best with what is available - and I think that is all that God requires. I think the problem arises when one's best is not good enough for some people. I have a friend who loves making coffee - he sees it as his "ministry". His coffee is definitely not the "best", and I am no connisseur of coffee ..... there are others in the church who can make better coffee but they don't want to make coffee - they have other areas of serbice within the church. The pastor was talking about getting somebody else to do the coffee - I said "But that is his ministry, that is where he finds joy fullfillment and satisfaction. Deprive him of his one area of service and you will be like the rich man Nathan spoke of when challenging David, who took the poor neighbours sheep/lamb to feed his guests. Don't do it." The pastor took my advice and the man continues to serve in the church with joy. And we drink his coffee with joy!
Agreed! I was on the worship team so my old church and I can’t count how many times they said things like “someday, someone better will come along and we won’t be needed on the team anymore” or “we didn’t sign you up for Easter or Christmas, because we have to out our best players in as the starting lineup” or “You don’t move around enough. Look at how much this person moves around.” All of this was said by the production pastor. That isn’t pushing and striving for excellence. That’s just messed up.
I've seen & been in all sorts of churches of various sizes and styles. Could write a book on this. But one Big theme stands out. Big churches lose the communal essence & heart of church when they prioritise internal growth vs outward growth. The only big churches that keep that communal essence are the ones that deliberately put themselves through a process of constant change & multiplication everytime they hit the numerical threshold beyond which the danger lies. Church growth should be outwards not inwards. Once it turns inwards, the seeds of decline are sown & begin to grow.
You did not mention the advent of elite preachers which these churches produce, I was shocked when a member of one of these churches referred to his pastor as a "ROCK STAR" whaaaaat ??? Having been a rocker through the 70's and 80's I know much of what "rock stars" do, and trust me I would want nothing to do with a rock star preacher. IMO a preacher is needed to be in personal contact with his church members instead of a cloistured elite in his ivory tower with security detail.
I once watched a video here on UA-cam from a mega church sound tech talking about church lighting and how important it was to keep the spot lights on those on stage with "big egos", it was disgusting to watch. The most humble and God focused person in your church better be your pastor, and those with big egos belong in the pews, not on the stage.
😂 lol. This comment is hilarious.. I have a very hard time believing that people have read this comment and chuckled. I often call my daughter a “ rock star “ or a close friend of maybe even my mom or dad. This phrase can be used in the context of saying a person is amazing, beautiful and awesome at what they do. I often use this phrase in a way that has absolutely nothing to do with long hair, loud music, tattoos or drugs and the crazy lifestyle that is associated with being an actual musician. This is a very lame statement and argument in my opinion, very petty and judgmental. We need to do and be better.
@@stevenmcbride9773 Jesus said, “Why are you calling me good? No one is good, only God." This statement alone contains more truth then most can bare, and most aren't even capable of understanding it, including those who seek the glory of man as pastors in the church. To you I say, seek understanding, and deny righteousness. God bless...
Christ is Risen! Thank you for sharing. I only went to a mega church once in my youth. Then various Protestant denominations . Have been firmly settled in an English speaking Orthodox Church in the West for over a decade now. Recently found your channel .🙏
Skinny jeans, denim jacket and of course the $7000 sneakers 👟
U forgot the fake reading glasses
😂
My wife and I met at a megachurch. I got baptized there. We left after a few years to find a more genuine community. Our big critiques were:
-style over substance. The pastor's message was of inconsistent quality, but the music and the AV and the scripted videos were meticulously prepared.
-the growth plateau. As maturing Christians, my wife and I very quickly hit a plateau where the sermon, the Sunday morning classes, Wednesday evening classes, and other engagement points were unfulfilling because nobody cared to go very deep, even in classes where the majority of attendees were elders of the church. It left us at this place where we had to strike out alone to mature in our faith.
- defaulting to passively consuming content. There were certainly opportunities to participate, but you had to be in the right place at the right time and know the right guy to get plugged in to a position of service. Most of the ways to go deeper that were offered involved consuming more content and optionally discussing your feelings about said content with a group of people.
-the size itself. There were some opportunities created by the size, but there are some detriments, as well. Particular detriments were a seemingly constant churn in staff, an inability to develop relationships with elders and pastors (I had interacted with the senior pastor dozens of times, his wife went to my wedding, I had been to his house more than once, and he didn't know my name 3+ years in), and a general sanitized corporate feeling to everything.
-the squishyness. It really became apparent in 2014-2016 timeframe that they were trying to appeal to the masses by treading lightly around harder topics. This was reflected in a branding change to the church that included removing the word "baptist" from the name to appeal more to the seeker. They never went full on woke from what I understand, but they seemed to land in some squishy effeminate center-left position calculated to offend the least amount of people.
-the priorities. As you mentioned, the count of butts in seats seemed quite overemphasized. They'd talk about avoiding "checklist Christianity", but then the staff seemed obsessed about maximizing their financials and their attendance metrics, and everything else took a back seat.
Typical "church" that rather follows this wicked evil culture than Christ and His word. May God in His mercy raise up men like Spurgeon, Whitefield, Edwards and Martyn Lloyd Jones, those men of times past are a much greater blessing today, 2024, than the whole megachurch movement combined
Lots of great thoughts here; my experience in a large church that would be considered "mega" that I ended up leaving, was similar. In addition, I will offer these thoughts:
-what you win them with is what you win them to (I'm not sure who originally said this, but it is very true with regard to churches).
-We're supposed to be IN the world, not OF the world. Oftentimes, churches like this have it backwards: they're NOT in the world engaging it with biblical truth pressing Christ into all corners of it.......but at the same time, they're attempting to make the CHURCH more LIKE the world to appeal to carnal men.
-There is in general, a low view of corporate worship, a low doxology, a low view of the corporate body of Christ as represented in the local church and a chasing after the latest trends and fads in "evangelicalism." A downplaying of history ("the church started with Billy Graham, didn't you know that?" kind of mentality) and the standing on the shoulders of our spiritual forefathers and giants that came before us. You and your family come to the restaurant famished and are ready to order off the menu and the waitress comes out and whisks away the menu and says "you should have eaten at home before you came!" and hands you some video game consoles to play on instead. A similar thing happens in many churches of this type. The overall "Disney-fication" of the church.....no corporate confession of sins, no pastoral benediction at the end (but a silly, inane slickly produced announcement video instead)....
-Viewing the people sitting in the pews as an "audience" that must be entertained. Installing large screen televisions and comfy couches in the lobby areas to facilitate the "just drop by in your pajamas" way of "doing" church. Why drop by at all if I can just stay at home in my pajamas on the couch and watch the streamed "online service?" The corporate song choices are made because of their popularity on positive, encouraging radio stations--not on the theology contained in them or the corporate sing-ability of them. The text of the songs are so vague that a Mormon or RC could sing them and have no problem with them.....or you could change out a few of the pronouns and insert "my Chevy truck" into the lyrics and the song would still make sense. We are what we eat, but we ARE also what we sing.
-Rigidly planning preaching schedules around topical series (which are very heavy on practical pointers and self-help type checklists) and not really veering from that when something comes up in the text that would require a deeper digging and spending more time in the passage (this doesn't happen partially because there's little to no expository preaching going on). This goes hand-in-hand with avoiding conflict or biblical passages or preaching that would result in conflict....but also has the potential to result in tremendous depth and growth (and the preaching is topical, so of course it's easy to avoid these topics....you just skip over the "problem texts" and ignore them completely).
-A separation of families and saints into silos once they enter the church building: the divorced or single people go there, the youth ages 12-18 go there, the young families with kids go there, etc. This is a consumeristic way of viewing getting a "church service/church activity" to "meet my needs" and does not lend itself to life as a complete body of Christ and bearing with one another, even those saints that are in different stages of life than you are and may be a little weird. 🙂 These churches are often so big that they need two (or sometimes more) services on Sunday morning....when this happens, you really have two separate churches.
-Viewing your involvement more business-like/corporate, rather than as brothers standing side-by-side serving.
-Being so large, that you really don't know the elders/pastors on a personal level; how can we realistically expect 4 or 5 (hopefully) men to pastor and shepherd the thousands of people in these mega churches? Then, in connection with this, viewing the small group/life groups as where the "heavy lifting" of the preaching/teaching is happening....in other words the Sunday morning service is essentially an outreach and evangelistic in nature (are the men leading the small groups pastors then? are they biblically qualified elders? this is vague and confusing). There's nothing wrong with doing outreaches and evangelistic efforts--but as a whole, the Lord's Day corporate gathering is for Christ's sheep, who will hear his voice.......not a time to get out the drumlines, political speakers, dancers, Harley Davidson motorcycle raffles, facepainting, movie/television show clips, Elvis impersonators, etc.
-a general downplaying of the pulpit and the man of God authoritatively preaching the inerrant, infallible Word of God....instead, there's no pulpit, but there is a plexiglass lectern and a stool or couch and a bunch of stage decorations, frou-frou, props, cool lighting and graphics; the guy speaking is relating to you and conversing with you in....you know,....a personal way, not harsh and mean-sounding, and certainly not authoritatively....but instead offering suggestions, whisperings and entertaining personal anecdotes.....
-Jesus instituted the church shrinkage movement in John 6. He was not running after all those who are called "disciples" who left him at the end. He was not instructing the 12 to do that, either. Growth can happen in ways other than in numbers/butts in seats, as Jamie said.....
Came here, watched a review from Wise Disciple... new subscriber here.
God bless your channel!
Jamie, I was ecstatic when my friend showed me the he saves us video. I was trying to figure out that week how I was going to talk thru this Jesus Super Bowl commercial because I would be in the pulpit on February 18 and felt it necessary to address. Thanks to you, I didn’t have to. I just showed the ad then showed your response. FBC Charlotte TX.thanks you. Moreover, I love what you’re doing. Keep on, my friend. Keep honoring Christ. I would be delighted to hear what uprooted you in the years where so many were sifted. And would be wholeheartedly obliged to reciprocate. Blessings and greetings from your friend in southern TX. .
Thank you so much for this kind comment - much appreciated!
@jamie.bambrick how much do mega church pastors make?
@jamie.bambrick how much do mega church pastors make?
As a pastor of a large church, there’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying. I appreciate your tone, and maturity around these topics. I’m glad to be in my role, working from the inside to address what needs to be addressed now.
Thank you so much for this video. Addressing the root issue is a much better strategy than addressing the smaller fruits. Growth (in numbers and money and such) is not the only metric to be be measured. Insist on upholding the whole truth of God's word and not just the parts that lead to apparently visible growth. Thank you 🙏🏽.
Nicely balanced and fair assessment. I agree with your positive observations. What I’d say in the flip side, perhaps more directly, is mega churches do not elevate the Word of God. It seems to be a good spring board for whatever message the speaker wants to convey. I missed good ol’ exposition during my mega church days. Another downside was feeling completely detached from any decision made so everything had the feeling of “being done to me” (eg, closing church during pandemic, being told not to sing, or even major decisions regarding large expansions and leadership. Some of that just comes from ecclesiology but it’s a thing). Keep up the good work, Jamie - glad to see you doing this!
Yes, well said. We're here to serve Him, not just our own metrics of what we think success is. Success is washing His feet.
James White always says: "What you convert them with is what you convert them to".
He also said that everything is God’s will… so why complain about that.. who is the question the Almighty sovereign will God..
@@calebgibson55 We _choose_ to go against Gods will, we are responsible for that. Gods grace gives us new desires to enable us to live a life that honnors him. Yes, it is up to God to decide who will come to Him, but He also chose that those who would come to Him, would come through the preaching of the Word. Thats why we can have faith in the power of preaching, and not resort to all kinds of gimics to try and bet people hooked. We believe that the Holy Spirit would work through the preaching of the Word, and that the preaching of the Word has devine power to convert, while the world views it as foolishness.
@@Hannodb1961 Responsibility requires an option.. If we are Totally Depraved we have no responsibility because we had no way to choose God.. God would be an evil judge to condemn a deaf man for not hearing..
@@calebgibson55 That is nonsense. Its not like you are a robot. You choose evil because you _want_ to, that is why you cannot turn to God. That is your nature. Just like a lion will _always_ choose meat over salad, a sinner will _always_ choose sin over obedience. That doesnt mean a willful choice is not involved. Inserting "free will" into the gospel - whatever that is supposed to mean - is to take the first step away from grace and back to Rome, because it is to insert just the tiniest bit personal merit, diluting the coherence and sufficiency of grace.
@@Hannodb1961 Can a deaf man be charged guilty for not hearing? I mean nonsense, that is the definition of nonsense… If we are only able to sin, God is wrong for condemning us..
Thanks for sharing your experience and insights.
I am not against the mega-church, BUT when you've got the very best looking people on stage, with the highest degree of talent, singing on the most attractive stage possible, week after week after week.... Um, it all seems like a big production to me. Are the only lead female singers young, beautiful and blonde? Just saying. Something very "fleshly" happens when those cameras go up and personal worship is transmitted all over the world. And what happened to those moderately talented singers who were a great blessing on Sunday morning when the church was only 50 people strong? They've been pushed out by the elevation and influx of talent, and by the need to put the "perfect" service together for the consumption of the masses. Yes, I know that "presentation" is important, but it's unrealistic to think, as I mentioned, that only highly beautiful, highly talented people have something to offer the body of Christ. God, of course, will accurately judge all of this. This video makes some very good points.
The power of a faith based - biblical based and sacramental church is amazingly powerful and enriching. Consider the power of real presence in both WORD and EUCHARIST ….
Knew you were based. Very grateful I found your work because of the HGU video you made. God bless you, brother.
I appreciate that - welcome aboard!
I absolutely love your, "body builder with cancer" analogy.
I appreciate the humility of this honest take! Also, the use of the term viral juice 🤣
Very good holistic video. Thank you. Nice to see someone list a few pro's as well.
The problem of not telling the truth or avoiding it or even lessening it since we as humans think that God's truth is too great, so we have to lessen it some how exists even on the local church or even small scale church as well. And you do good my brother to come out of that, as God's truth is to prevail even in the oposition of the world enticement trend. I was so shocked when I was recently told not to share the truth in a "small" church, so I'm like I need to follow God, not this. On a side note, I serve as a pastor in the heart of San Fran, but I don't compromise on God's truth and well, mega church or not, its not my empire and we all have to answer to God, so its better to speak the truth. God bless.
Good word! Thank you for your centred, honest, and faithful testimony!
We often forget about the second part of the Great Commission. "Teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you..." // Forgive us, God.
Numbers do not equal spiritually mature people. Many people just become a number and many just come to be entertained.
The reason we assemble at the building is so that we may encourage and edify each other
I recently visited St. Patricks in Dublin. The alter was so much more special to me than the fanciest Mega Church stage. I'm not Catholic but do attend a historic liturgical church.
I even question if Mega Church or even Big Church is a viable format for proper discipleship. Like in school for example, we dont want classes to have more than 25 students per teacher because the quality of learning will go down. But we want churches, where we learn the most important things in life, to hoard thousands of people at the same time?
The rubber hits the road when you call people to repent and believe. Next like Luke 3 the crowd ask “What should we do?” Depending on your answer you could lose a lot of people.
In a culture dominated by mammon, a heartfelt sermon on this passage could cause offence or God Willing inspire…
Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
John The Baptist’s exhortation to the crowd, tax collectors and soldiers were all about material things. (Luke 3)
There’s even an example of someone trying to do something materially corrupt in this comments section 🙁.
Romans 1 material corruption precedes sexual corruption, the later is a symptom the former the cause:
“25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.”
Good points. Also a point: is growth from folks switching churches, or are these new believers to disciple.
Super job Jamie. The modern mega church movement is aptly described by you and its problems. Interestingly Spurgeon had a mega church in 1861 but no one can accuse him of compromise or growth by avoiding issues of he day in fact Spurgeon did exactly what you say should be done in the video. As a fellow Norn Ironer and now ex Pastor I want to pray that God will continue to use you and grow His church in truth and in righteousness for all men’s ske.
Well said! Exactly what we're looking to change in our own church.
Solid. Great vid. Very similar to my experience. With the addition of what I call the never ending hamster wheel of staying relevant/cool. That bit was exhausting…
Thanks for what you do Jamie.
I agree a LOT. Our small church of 150 people is lead by our pastor who preaches the WHOLE counsel of Scripture, doesn't shy away from tough teachings, and we still play a LOT of Gospel Centered Modern Worship Music, and we have some LED lights and we even have a couple of moving lights!
Well said! As someone who goes to a church that would be considered Mega, I can attest to the church’s desire for biblical living, teaching, and reaching of the lost and community care.
Great video! “The Gospel Driven Church” by Jared C Wilson is like a whole manifesto about what you are saying here.
Thank you brother! Thank you for tactfully addressing your views on MC’s. Thank you for expressing your views without creating divide.
I think the main lesson is that Mega Churches have to understand what they’re good at and stop there. They are good at seeking the lost and brining them into often a life-changing encounter with our Lord Jesus Christ. Their focus should be on the Kerygma. This is what Billy Graham focused on and then at the end of his crusades, he would tell people to go to a local (likely mainline) church to be discipled. Mega churches would function best if they existed only to help people for maybe max 1-3 years for that initial encounter only.
Thank you!👍
Thanks for your insights. I am not a fan of the Mega Church though I am a product of one. This perspective is nuanced around a western Mega Church experience. So I am taking it with a pinch of salt. I am curious though, what those in Mega churches in Asia, Latin America, and Africa would say on this matter? Something tells me that there will be lots of push back. Just a thought!
I like your analysis of the phenomenon that is "The Megachurch". I would only add that my family defines megachurches as "starter churches". It's a place where the pastor takes 40 minutes to an hour to tell you that Jesus loves you...every Sunday.
It shouldn’t be about watering down the holiness and communion with THE GOD OF HEAVEN! When did the altar get replaced with a podium in lights.
In Acts, the word of God says that the Holy Spirit added people to the Body of Christ. There’s nothing in scripture that teaches us that we need a particular building, or that we need to hold the evangelistic services. The Bible tells us that Christians were recognised by people by the way they lived their lives.
Long prayers are good if a person is not chanting or doing vain repetitions and their mind and soul is engaged.
Bible says you have not because you ask not.
Pray for healing.
Pray for forgiveness.
Pray for cleansing and a purified heart.
Pour out our heart before Jesus and tell Him our problems and hurts.
Pray and ask for our needs met.
Pray and ask for our food and shelter and clothing.
Pray for those who hurt us and treat us badly and those who wrong us.
Pray and let our requests be made known to God.
Pray and ask for strength to overcome.
Pray and ask for deliverance over sin.
Pray and ask for wisdom.
Pray and ask for emotional healing.
Pray and ask for protection.
Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Scripture is VERY clear, that no matter how much effort you put into something: If it not the same Gospel, then it is wrong. And if they teach anything else, than what Jesus taught, it is not from God. So the effort is NO INDICATION of how viable it is.
Timothy 4:16
Titus 2,6
1. Corinthians 14,40
Regarding growth of the Church:
A concert tickles the ears, of course many will go there. The comparison with the tumor is good. A decent sermon is a friendly reprimand, ofcourse many don't want to hear it, the flesh hates any kind of criticism, but it is the narrow path.
I have just left this church. I left after a break down of my very unhealthy marriage was met with absolutely no help or urgency. They have the most sit down attitude and it’s harmful. I told them I was leaving, and the pastor of the branch we went to gave me a response that was a Christian version of “ok, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out”. But it’s cool, because he said “God bless” at the end.
Just found your video via Wise Disciples channel. Loved the video. I became a Christian reasonably recently but haven't even chosen a church yet. And living in Belfast I have a lot to chose from. CFC East was a choice, but I'm unsure. Any pointers?
*choose
Drop me an email via my email in the about section and I'll give you some thoughts!
Because a church is'mega' in size,doesn't mean it is 'mega'inside(spiritually speaking). I attend one Florida that has about 50 plus programs you can get involve in to try to mimic 'small group' feeling! The smaller churches are definitely more personal and family friendly where you can get to know one another more intimately. The old saying is,'It's not the size of the dog in the fight,but the fight in the dog! Any pastor who has congregation that growing and thriving in their relationship with Jesus Christ should be proud and glad that his work is not in vain!
What a great video! Thank you for sharing…grateful that the LORD is raising up bold leaders to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable!
Thank you for this video. I would like to ask you and anyone else reading this a genuine question - how do you expect to draw young people into the church? I see a lot of people in Christian leadership criticizing (fairly) the megachurch model yet offering no solutions or alternatives.
I know that through God all things are possible, but as a young Christian with proportionally few Christian friends and even less going to church every week, it sometimes feels that without megachurches, we would have almost no Gen Z people in the church. The tangible and intangibles of the megachurch has an undeniable appeal to young "faith-seekers", especially those disillusioned and frustrated with the generations before us.
The church I attend is very similar to what I’ve seen described here. It’s very discouraging to discover that I’m in something of a “McChurch” and not sure what to do about it now.
So I gave the video a 👍 for you.
I’ve lived in so many places (Preachers kid, then a military career ). In retrospect, I was fortunate in many ways. In one area, I was “discipled” which is something I really don’t see a focus on today.
I could point all day long to the “fail points” of Mega Churches (yep, I’ve always wondered why J. Mac didn’t encourage his church as it grew, to break into smaller ones. That’s the paradigm Tim Keller took.)
Discipleship can only happen in small groups. As far back as 1988, in a “Nav Group” while in the military, I was struck by (what I felt to be a Christian’s mission paradigm after conversion… 2 Tim 2:2 ). Currently I’m involved in Prison Ministries where numbers rise & fall. I ignore that. God saves, God gives the growth. I think the Apostle Paul was disgusted at how we ‘elevate’ leaders & teachers (re: 1 Cor 1:10-17).
I’ve said enough or perhaps too much. Lord bless you.
Amazing! Thinking of starting a local church? There ate not many biblical churches around, could be good.
Good stuff, authenticity.
Good point about some things that do not lead directly to growth being nonetheless essential.
Prayers for all of the visible church to bring the full gospel of Christ to everyone
Hi Jamie. I attend an MB church in Langley BC and the pastor is one of the most talented, insightful and transparent preachers I have ever seen in my 60 years. But a year ago he did a 5 week series, introduced by the elder board moderator, establishing that the Church was now Egalitarian. I was dumbfounded listening to a man I have respected for 10 years, twist and manipulate the simple and clear message of the Bible to fit a trending social narrative. I just couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Don’t get me wrong, he did it humbly and gently, but hearing him say that black was now white, with wild interpretations and extra biblical inaccurate historical interpretations just blew my mind. It is over a year later and, although I have tried to ignore this issue as peripheral to the core goodness of the man and the very positive nature of the church, I am still VERY disturbed that he could so blatantly twist the word and that an entire eldership team, save for one, would also agree. Now, each Sunday as I listen, a voice in the back of my head is saying , “ If he can so twist that clear directive, what else can he twist?” To say it is distracting and disconcerting is an understatement. I know that the accountability for a response or action is solely on me as a responsible Christian with a personal relationship with God, but I’m curious, from you perspective, how big a deal is this? Am I simply over reacting? Does one just shrug and say “ No church is perfect “ and carry on? I have never left a church due to offences or theological arguments, but I find myself considering it now. Am I out to lunch? I’m just looking for an alternative perspective to add into the consideration. May thanks. Dave.
That’s what happened to me, and that is why I left the mega church where I was a member for 20 years and found a church where the DO preach the Gospel in a non compromising way. Pray for God’s direction.
Hi. I'm not sure what they meant by "Egalitarian". I know the classic meaning of the word, in that all people have equivalent value. Was it being used to mean all points of view are equal?
As far as what you decide to do, you know what Paul wrote, "As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." If they've stepped over that line, you have to leave. In any case, I'm touched by your care for the truth.
In this context, it usually means that women can pastor churches and have pastoral authority over men.
@@billmann1811 Thank you.
Jamie, do you know why the mega church plant organization you were a part of still has your video on their website?
You are blessed with a natural sense of quality humor, I dare say. Particularly on you presented the gym bro metaphor.
Exactly why I left the mega church where I was a member for over 20 years.
I was raised a Assembly of God Holiness pastor's son. I am now a lapsed Roman Catholic. When a church is more defined by "who" the pastor is then it becomes a cult. If you think of David Koresh he preached the Holy Bible, but it was all about David Koresh. Any church that is like that, I think they should no longer be called a church and be called a cult.
Hmm, I realize that some of this is arguing about definitions, but I have always thought of a mega church as something that is part of the evangelical tradition that is historically larger than reformation-formed communities, and that the prototype for it would be the church of Charles Spurgeon.
I am Catholic, and I wouldn’t critique mega churches as not being churches on the grounds of size, except maybe to say that mega churches are all too small to be THE church. But again, what are we talking about? Are we talking about communities that pursue discipleship? Then sure, mega churches count, and some are better than others. Are we talking about THE Church, which is the one singular body and one singular bride of Christ? I know the common evangelical answer is that THE Church is the invisible group of true believers everywhere, but that has the accidental side effect of accusing scripture of metaphors. If what scripture means to convey is that THE Church is an invisible group of true believers everywhere, the calling THE Church THE Body of Christ is the worst possible metaphor, because THE body is the visible, tangible, you-can-point-to-it-it’s-right-there part, which is the opposite of the common example. It also makes nonsense of the other common metaphor, the Bride of Christ. So Christ is a physical, embodied being, and is in heaven and physically in a human (if elevated) body, but His Bride is… amorphous, spiritualized, wishy-washy who knows where it is? These are metaphors, but they are metaphors chosen at the expense of ones that could have clearly been chosen that were not. If THE Church is the invisible group of true believers, the why not call it the “spirit” or “breath” of Christ? This clearly would have conveyed such a meaning a lot better.
This was on point! Great thought and good points!
kudos
How many people in the mega church congregations were saved at that church? And how many transferred in from another church?
I spent several years at Church of the Highlands in Birmingham, AL. I was heavily involved in leading groups, leading leaders and graduated from their ministry school. They are spot on with prayer and fasting (life changing), making people feel needed and known and giving and serving. BUT...and this is huge...I left in 2020 because what was happening was in very clear contradiction to scripture.
They ignored and hid sexual misconduct at a gross level and were promoting the "restoring" of pastors to ministry after sexual misconduct when such restoration is clearly forbidden in scripture (1 Timothy and Ezekiel). Their ministry model promotes an environment where staff do NOT know Scripture and simply do what they are told and speak what they are told. Many times, in response to unbiblical practices, I had staff people say, "I don't know but I trust Pastor Chris." Umm...NO. The word of God is the authority, not Chris Hodges.
The other thing I observed, which is the other side of the previous issue is that the church's culture clearly mandates we are not to ever question Chris Hodges. In fact, that was taught to us in their ministry school (first half of the second semester, course taught by Beth Cunningham). We were told clearly you do not question leadership. It's totalitarian, baby. And the lord of all is Chris Hodges, not Jesus. People I know have talked of hearing him say, "Well, that scripture doesn't apply." And I guess he decided what scripture applies and what doesn't.
Over all, I agree that Highlands started well, meant well, and in many cases, does things well. But that is when the things they are doing align with scripture. Chris had a clear vision and is brilliant with execution, but he knowingly surrounded himself with wicked people (Dino Rizzo) and began stepping across biblical lines and has now done it so much that he's become numb to it. This was his primary downfall. Many times I heard him say, "Show me your friends and I'll show you your future." Chris' focus in on money and power. He doesn't worship Jesus. He uses Jesus. He worships Mammon.
The impact of Highlands was absolutely life changing for me, but I had to make the choice to follow Christ, not Chris. When i saw the rot that was hidden behind the curtain, I fell into a deep depression that lasted about five years. I still have bad days but my focus is on Christ and the plumb line of my life is the word of God. Sometimes...many times, following Christ and His word is not easy. Oh how I pray for Chris Hodges to repent and do the things he did at the first.
You know, I'm thinking back and it was after our former church connected with Dino Rizzo and whatever church he was with at the time that everything started going downhill. And many of the problems you shared have existed and continue to exist to this day at our former church. We've been at a much smaller church where it's not about the pastor at all but about the gospel and true discipleship. We also pray for our former pastor for exactly the same thing because it wasn't always like this.
What's the deal with Dino Rizzo? (Never heard of him, just curious.)
@@HorseWithNoUsername Search Dino Rizzo controversy, although my issue with him is not regarding that so much as how he essentially created a "formula" for some megachurches and so they act more like franchise businesses.
@@HorseWithNoUsername @victorialopez9717 He is one of the "pastors" at Highlands. He heads up the ARC. He cheated on his wife while he was senior pastor at another church. Highlands tried to say he never did it but when you put another woman up in an apartment...you tell me. He brought a MOUNTAIN of corruption with him when he came to Highlands as Chris Hodges' close friend. They "restored" him to ministry (yet scripture is clear in both OT and NT that there is no pathway for restoration to ministry after sexual impropriety for a priest/pastor). He's as mafia as they get. There is a reason your church hit the skids after getting involved with that demon. I seriously question his salvation. He is all about that money.
Excellent and balanced take!
Thanks for the video
I was only called to witness in everyday life..shining my light
I would direct people to read
Bible as it covers all aspects
Preaching is limited to time
Restictions and can only cover
A limited area
God does the saving not the preacher!
Appreciate your video sir, two comments: if you don't like the church you have the freedom to leave. If you believe it's your family then stay and wait until things change
Thanks for the sharing. Mega churches in particular are not set up to disciple people in the Biblical sense. The main point of the church is not about growth, although evangelism is important. It is about making disciples. I was a mega church leader and after seeing the church growing from fifty to two thousand in six years, I began to see our people were not given the time, the attention and the care and teaching for proper discipleship.
You will realise sooner or later your church may be able to get in two hundred a year into the door, but you may only have the capacity to disciple twenty of them. The rest is what it is, a numbers game. This is the tragedy of a mega church.
True the church organization does all these things to make new comers feel welcome. As for what happens with the real church (once the church leaves the building) depends on a lot of factors as to how that is lived out between Sundays and Wednesdays. Cheers!
That's the question that every Christ follower should ask.
Thank you!!
I don't really know how this video came up on my feed, but it did, and I watched it thinking 'here we go, another McArther type of attacking video', but I was wrong. I actually kind of understood the perspective, opinion and could easily follow the logic. It was a nice balanced video.
A little note from me. There was shown a Video from a megachurch called Long Hollow Church, while you talked about megachurches stay silent on certain topics. Long Hollow has several great sermons on homosexuality online. I think they lead as a great example.
Thats not a critique. You are absolutely right in general. I just wanted to note this, so they are not wrongly accused of staying siltent.
Loved the video. Be blessed! 🙏🏼
Oh and the pastor from ECHO CHURCH...he talks a METRIC TON about controversial topics...honestly maybe a BIT too much, but I respect his bravery and vigilance!
So well stated! 🙂
good Christians is not the goal.. But fruitful Christians (fruits of the spirits) which always lead to good works for the glory of Christ..
My concern:Mega churches rely heavily on church growth strategies (man made) to sustain their expenses.. There are even church investors! One can build capital by investing in a church?! This leads to alot of compromise.... Only Christians who abide in Christ ( the Word) will be fruitful...
These are people's eternal destiny we're talking about.. Not sustaining an industrial complex.. Where people go to for a self esteem fix.... This is my concern.
Good stuff. Left a mega church myself and I agree 100%. They also tend to use the “reaching the lost” card to cover anything that is negative. For example treating your staff poorly? It’s because you’re reaching the lost. Wasting money on frivolous things? It’s because your reaching the lost. Refuse to fire a disruptive staff member? If they are good at attracting people then they stay.
Very Good Insights
I attended McLean Bible Church MBC in Washington DC area, when under Lon Solomon, a very Godley Discerning man. The Church in general became more 'worldly', 'corporate' , and many seemed to become shallow in their approach to the Bible and basic doctrine. MBC is now pastored by a very 'woke' pastor.
Now retired in Knoxville TN I found a small KJV Baptist Church with a simple Salvation message but a very deep doctrinal teachings which strengthen our Hope in Salvation in Jesus Christ,
You, my hillbilly friend, hit the nail on the head. Pragmatism is the ultimate end of the mega church movement; because church growth is their God. “You shall have no other gods before me”. No matter how good or godly they may look. We must worship Almighty God His way, set by His example.
Amen! Spoken well.
I find your videos very fulfilling, for what I find you had not defamatory against your Christian brothers and sisters most commonly residing south of you. Doug. / Ottawa
Thank you, good content
Amen. Do we trust God to work when His Word is counter-cultural?
Great job
I’m new at this. I’m hoping that these new churches overpass Catholicism.
Sorry, not a chance 😆 The Catholic church has been around for 2000 years and Jesus promised the gates of hell wouldn't prevail... Why so much hate for the Church Christ founded ?
Well while I am church hopping I visited the Catholic Church 4 times. And I have to say that it’s the worst church of all the churches I have visited. The reformed church has been the most helpful. But right now I am leaning towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What do you think maybe you can help?@@barbaratd615
We have been commanded to make disciples… to do what Jesus did.
Sitting in a church on a Sunday isn’t it.
Going out and reaching the lost with the power of the Holy Spirit is what we should be doing.
The church building should be used as a place to grow, fellowship and learn how to reach the lost - basically a training centre for disciples.
Most churches don’t do any of that it seems. Infact, it is completely alien to most “believers”.
I live near one of those Mega Churches, here in Los Anheles, CA. it is as if you were heading to a sporting event, basketball, hockey, a lot of noise but ......... empty hearts, most of those churches are there for the money 😳😬
‘Shy off exegeting The Gospel of Matthew and instead exegete SharkNado 3’ 😅😂
First of all, Jamie, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. And I am totally with you: Growing (and I had to learn that too) is not a sign if a church is healthy, or theologically on the right path. Regarding Sexuality - which is, if people would have study the languages and the history of the BIblical Context, NOT clear in modern times - both can happen and it does happen: Churches are outgoing with their view against LGBTQ+ and there are churches who affirm that people are born that way and it is in line with God. Both churches can experience growth due to what day say or reject. I don't want to argue about that issue itself, because I know people with their interpretations (Reminder: Homosexuality the word is not in the BIble, if you find it, someone made a wrong translation). But I want to bring in another thought, no matter where you stand with LGBTQ+, this is really the biggest issue of society?! I know that there are way bigger issues with the topic money and stewardship in society and in church. This topic is soooo huge!!! And Jesus has said so many things about that (nothing about LGBTQ). And this can also be very polarizing, when you talk to people, who fly first class in your church, that Jesus would probably fly economy or not at all. Things like that... Greed, MOney, excessive captilasim is way clearer addressed in the BIble and by Jesus and is a huge problem for mega churches, corrupts church people the same way it does non Christians. Just a thought ;) Even though we apparently disagree theologically, I still follow you :)
Would love to learn what you learned about prayer.i need a better prayer life.
Rev 3:3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
EXCELLENT!!!!!
Great analysis
Mega churches can be all about image as well as numbers. With all the cameras, live-streaming and other social media output you have to look good and cool.