The underfill is actually a resin-like material that supports the solder bumps between the die and the interposer. The solder bumps melt at a much higher temperature than 80 degrees, hot enough to cause damage to the chip should a reflow of the solder bumps be attempted.
@@SethYoung-1890 the underfill won't melt at 80 degrees c, nor does screwing with the fan targets fix the problem. the real problem is the underfill material is prone to cracking but due to repeated heat/cool cycles due to the wrong lowTg material used back in bumpgate i guess you can always keep the gpu heated at ~40c to keep an original Y1 up but thats, hahaha, at this point swap it xD
@@botchedrepair1542 the underfill is not what cracks. It is the solder bumps that crack under thermal stress as the underfill fails to do its job of supporting the solder bumps at around 70-80 degrees. At that temperature the underfill becomes malleable and soft. This design flaw is known as “bumpgate”, and RIP Felix has a video on his channel that explains it.
If it wasn't for this video i never would've knew that my 360 had been serviced! i thought since its from 07 that it had the old GPU but when you said that the paper sticker means its been serviced and mine was paper i was very happy. after taking a closer look at my GPU it's date code is 0841, 41st week of 2008, which falls around October 6-12, 2008. The GPU is the second Rhea revision with 130C Tg under-fill!!!! (X816971) I don't have to worry about my 360 knowing that it is not going to die anytime soon. Thank u!!!
The actual term of cooling down and heating up is called Thermal Cycling. That's what kills the GPUs, because the underfill goes soft and then thermal expansion flexes those internal connections, when it cools down it relaxes again and repeating that is like bending a piece of metal until it breaks. there are also cracks forming on the underfill itself, so changing the thermal targets won't make it last as long as a fixed GPU, but it still might prolong life
Same goes for the 90nm PS3s! However keeping the CECHA/E models cool is easy bc of the beefy heat sink, CECHGs are a pain in the ass. Don’t even think Sony thought that seriously. I doubt it can keep a 40nm cool let alone a 90.
I think you mean the CECHH? The CECHG still has a bit of a beefier heatsink, but the CECHH i think removed heatpipes and such, making it much harder to cool
I still have my original falcon black elite from 2008 that i bought new in sep 2009 it’s got the paper warranty seal but still works as it did on day one never been serviced or taken apart all games played from the hard drive as it prevents the console getting too hot after many hours of play and kept clean and well vented ✌️😃
Thanks for making another video i can use when someone says a reball/reflow will fix the gpu on the r/360hacks subreddit. I stucl with the rossman video for a while but it just talks about gpus in general
I met a guy who got a halo 3 console that had e74 error, he reflowed it and said he was going to reball it to fix it. I had to desperately explain to him that it wouldnt work, he just kept pulling up old articles of people claiming it worked.
I think the main problem besides the temperature are the heat cycles (cold from being off to hot cause of gaming) because those heat cycles also stresses the board leading to bending it a tiny tiny bit. Solution to that is just minimize the heat cycles you put on the console. You want to play for a whole 20 minutes before you go out? Ditch that idea and maybe go brush your teeth instead. Your playing and have dinner which like 45 minutes? Just turn your TV off and let the console run, if it's bit noisy you can still quit the game and even tho it also will cool down a bit (noticed that on my PS5 that thing just goes cold after closing a PS5 Game) it's still better than letting it cool off completely. The same goes for cars, cars which where driven just around town their live usually are in worse condition (engine wise) compared to cars which where mostly driven for long times at a time. Even tho they're the same milage for example
@@denist.8058 its a wonder how my 05 console with an 07 GPU still works fine after 17 years. It’s not a fixed GPU lol and I’ve put hundreds of hours on it since I got it two years ago and it was pretty used before me
@@Chadlewis7936 well, EBay and shopgoodwill.com are good places to look. Try asking your local game store to see if they sell broken consoles, or even check on your local Facebook marketplace!
I found a xenon serviced in late 2009 with the original MFR sticker on the back, does that mean anything or did Microsoft not put a service date on the back? Also excuse me? 7:13
@@xbox360lover ive seen service stickers as early as january 09 but i think the became more common around feb 09. If the console was sent in for rrod repair as the gpu had failed, then it would have a reliable gpu, i dont know if it would be an elpis but it should have a reliable gpu, only way to check is through opening the console and looking at the gpu itself
totally unrelated to the 360 but you got a whole HP pavilion setup beside you and I just want to say I'm absolutely jealous as a y2k computer and game collector. Edit: your xflasher isn't working cause the Xbox has no power.
@SethYoung-1890 Asking because I got a Halo 3 console yesterday with a Jtagable NXE dash and the GPU died but I "reflowed it" and it works again so I was wanting to see if this would help keep it alive and if I could save money by not getting the GPU replaced.
Guys, there is obviously a reason he is using windows vista, so the FBI can't track his google searches. Definitely better than my search history though
Im nostalgic for Vista and XP lol. I feel bad for vista for all the hate it got. It works totally fine for me. Plus the tower is dual booted with XP as well
@@SethYoung-1890 No it's a smart mod only the bolt mod is dumb, it's just a voltage mod that increases the speed of the original fan. The fans on Xenon's are set low which is why they run hot. Mine was around 80 degrees, with the 12v mod, it was around 60. But due to the age of the blower fan, it is a bit on the loud side. It sounds like a Server PC. Also recommend the Falcon GPU heatsink with the heat pipe.
The underfill is actually a resin-like material that supports the solder bumps between the die and the interposer. The solder bumps melt at a much higher temperature than 80 degrees, hot enough to cause damage to the chip should a reflow of the solder bumps be attempted.
@@pukalo just to be clear, I meant the temperature in Celsius, not Fahrenheit
@@SethYoung-1890 the underfill won't melt at 80 degrees c, nor does screwing with the fan targets fix the problem.
the real problem is the underfill material is prone to cracking but due to repeated heat/cool cycles due to the wrong lowTg material used back in bumpgate
i guess you can always keep the gpu heated at ~40c to keep an original Y1 up but thats, hahaha, at this point swap it xD
Yes but the underfill isn't problematic until around 80c @botchedrepair1542
@@botchedrepair1542 the underfill is not what cracks. It is the solder bumps that crack under thermal stress as the underfill fails to do its job of supporting the solder bumps at around 70-80 degrees. At that temperature the underfill becomes malleable and soft. This design flaw is known as “bumpgate”, and RIP Felix has a video on his channel that explains it.
@@Josh-Barnett no it melts at 70c
If it wasn't for this video i never would've knew that my 360 had been serviced! i thought since its from 07 that it had the old GPU but when you said that the paper sticker means its been serviced and mine was paper i was very happy. after taking a closer look at my GPU it's date code is 0841, 41st week of 2008, which falls around October 6-12, 2008. The GPU is the second Rhea revision with 130C Tg under-fill!!!! (X816971) I don't have to worry about my 360 knowing that it is not going to die anytime soon. Thank u!!!
@@thedeepone1531 no problem! I’m glad your system turned out to be fixed!
how to hide a body is wild 💀💀
@@Littleiron7 IM GLAD YOU SAW THAT LOL
@@SethYoung-1890 should I be concerned?
@@Littleiron7 maybe so 💀💀
@@SethYoung-1890 uh oh...
TF lol 😂
The actual term of cooling down and heating up is called Thermal Cycling. That's what kills the GPUs, because the underfill goes soft and then thermal expansion flexes those internal connections, when it cools down it relaxes again and repeating that is like bending a piece of metal until it breaks. there are also cracks forming on the underfill itself, so changing the thermal targets won't make it last as long as a fixed GPU, but it still might prolong life
Great info, really enjoyed resetting the thermal targets while I waited for the lye to melt the body in my bathtub.
My 360 (an Elite Jasper) which is my main console has the paper sticker but has the MFR date on the back, and it’s from 2009…
I did not know that I feel like the jasper and falcon are the one to try are luck on
@@therondavis82 those will be really reliable (except early falcons.) but hardly any of them are on older dashboards
Seth: “Xenon’s are actually reliable, here’s how:”
*opens up console*
Me: so they aren’t reliable
Imagine saying that about a car or smartphone
@@YoungMrBlue first of all, technically you don’t have to take apart serviced ones. Secondly, this video is explaining how to MAKE them reliable
@@SethYoung-1890 but come on you gotta admit my comment was funny
@@YoungMrBlue it was a little lmao
@@YoungMrBlue…it really wasn’t
Same goes for the 90nm PS3s!
However keeping the CECHA/E models cool is easy bc of the beefy heat sink, CECHGs are a pain in the ass. Don’t even think Sony thought that seriously. I doubt it can keep a 40nm cool let alone a 90.
I think you mean the CECHH? The CECHG still has a bit of a beefier heatsink, but the CECHH i think removed heatpipes and such, making it much harder to cool
@@zaptheporcupine1578 the CECHGs heatsink is at leat quater as small as the Hs. What you saw as big is the CPU heatsink.
I still have my original falcon black elite from 2008 that i bought new in sep 2009 it’s got the paper warranty seal but still works as it did on day one never been serviced or taken apart all games played from the hard drive as it prevents the console getting too hot after many hours of play and kept clean and well vented ✌️😃
Falcons are reliable though if they're manufactured in mid-late 2008
@@superstar64 just checked and it was manufactured 26-08-2008 👍🏻
windows vista in 2024 is crazy
I know . How does internet work on that with newer website servers
Thanks for making another video i can use when someone says a reball/reflow will fix the gpu on the r/360hacks subreddit. I stucl with the rossman video for a while but it just talks about gpus in general
I met a guy who got a halo 3 console that had e74 error, he reflowed it and said he was going to reball it to fix it. I had to desperately explain to him that it wouldnt work, he just kept pulling up old articles of people claiming it worked.
Good, informative and interesting video. Subscribed 🤟
I believe this can also save phat ps3’s
I think the main problem besides the temperature are the heat cycles (cold from being off to hot cause of gaming) because those heat cycles also stresses the board leading to bending it a tiny tiny bit. Solution to that is just minimize the heat cycles you put on the console. You want to play for a whole 20 minutes before you go out? Ditch that idea and maybe go brush your teeth instead. Your playing and have dinner which like 45 minutes? Just turn your TV off and let the console run, if it's bit noisy you can still quit the game and even tho it also will cool down a bit (noticed that on my PS5 that thing just goes cold after closing a PS5 Game) it's still better than letting it cool off completely.
The same goes for cars, cars which where driven just around town their live usually are in worse condition (engine wise) compared to cars which where mostly driven for long times at a time. Even tho they're the same milage for example
@@denist.8058 its a wonder how my 05 console with an 07 GPU still works fine after 17 years. It’s not a fixed GPU lol and I’ve put hundreds of hours on it since I got it two years ago and it was pretty used before me
@@SethYoung-1890 Not every system is the same ig. 07 GPU is still 90nm process or? I'm not so deep in the Xbox rabbit hole xd
@@denist.8058 yes lol. The GPU is from January so it’s older than Zephyrs even. I’m pretty sure Zephyrs used the 90 nm GPUs as well
@@SethYoung-1890 okay that's impressive
think about it, xbox 360s, are more reliable than the soldered down ssds in m1 macbooks
hey seth i was just wondering where i could buy some untested 360s for myself as youve inspired me lol
@@Chadlewis7936 well, EBay and shopgoodwill.com are good places to look. Try asking your local game store to see if they sell broken consoles, or even check on your local Facebook marketplace!
Makes me wonder how my launch model still works. Played the crap out of it, and it never had any issues.
I swear it's just down to luck sometimes.
is it on the original gpu or does it have a service sticker?
@@SethYoung-1890 Never had it serviced.
Great video man, Im probably gonna do this to my xenon when I can istead of swapping an elpis gpu onto it.
@@leonikonomopoulos3923 swapping an Elpis is very finicky anyways, they don’t like heat
@@SethYoung-1890 really, what do you mean
@@leonikonomopoulos3923 you have to be careful with them if you swap Elpises to another board, they like to 0022 themselves lol
@@SethYoung-1890 really, Ive heard that its ossible to swap them over without modifying the nand
@@leonikonomopoulos3923 it is
I understand reading the nand and changing the smc config temps, but dont you have to have the cpu key before rewriting the nand?
@@C0ldBl00ded63 no
I found a xenon serviced in late 2009 with the original MFR sticker on the back, does that mean anything or did Microsoft not put a service date on the back?
Also excuse me? 7:13
@@xbox360lover how do you know it was serviced in late 2009 if there’s no service date sticker?
@@SethYoung-1890 actually it was from early 2009 sorry about that, I cracked it open and it says January 2009 on the disc drive so that's my bad
@@xbox360lover might not have been using service stickers yet then. I don’t know the exact time those went into circulation
@@SethYoung-1890 i think it was like mid 2009 or something
@@xbox360lover ive seen service stickers as early as january 09 but i think the became more common around feb 09. If the console was sent in for rrod repair as the gpu had failed, then it would have a reliable gpu, i dont know if it would be an elpis but it should have a reliable gpu, only way to check is through opening the console and looking at the gpu itself
totally unrelated to the 360 but you got a whole HP pavilion setup beside you and I just want to say I'm absolutely jealous as a y2k computer and game collector.
Edit: your xflasher isn't working cause the Xbox has no power.
@@OrdinarySimonTheJoe I’m pretty sure it was plugged in, I don’t remember
For those consoles that you changed the temperature targets, are they still working? Even after using them?
@@vinyminotaur2694 yep lol although I haven’t hardly used them
@SethYoung-1890 Asking because I got a Halo 3 console yesterday with a Jtagable NXE dash and the GPU died but I "reflowed it" and it works again so I was wanting to see if this would help keep it alive and if I could save money by not getting the GPU replaced.
@ well, if the GPU has already ran into issues It’ll likely die again, temps changed or not. It might help make it last longer though
Guys, there is obviously a reason he is using windows vista, so the FBI can't track his google searches. Definitely better than my search history though
Im nostalgic for Vista and XP lol. I feel bad for vista for all the hate it got. It works totally fine for me. Plus the tower is dual booted with XP as well
Recap, thermal paste, 12v fan mod and you're good.
@@8bitnation419 no fan mods are dumb
@@SethYoung-1890 No it's a smart mod only the bolt mod is dumb, it's just a voltage mod that increases the speed of the original fan. The fans on Xenon's are set low which is why they run hot. Mine was around 80 degrees, with the 12v mod, it was around 60. But due to the age of the blower fan, it is a bit on the loud side. It sounds like a Server PC. Also recommend the Falcon GPU heatsink with the heat pipe.
@@8bitnation419What about a 9v fan mod? Would that also work?
@@chase7974 There's a 9v fan mod?
@@8bitnation419 Yeah, it was common back years ago. I think the fans run at 75%, so it won't be as loud.
good video
3:05 on my dad’s 360, the moment i was gonna fix it, i saw it had both, so uhhhh, i cant know if it was serviced or not😅
@@BonBeinCrisse if it has the paper sticker period it’s serviced I bet
@@SethYoung-1890 i looked in the back and it said service date
@@BonBeinCrisse that means you probably have a fixed Elpis GPU
@@SethYoung-1890 it would make sense, i did change the thermal paste yesterday anyways
just to be safe
lol yeah slam tap that chip buddy 2 min mark