Functionally, Zelda can't stay a dragon since the entire franchise is based on the cyclical nature of these characters' rebirth from era to era. To the point that they can't even claim an ending where Zelda possibly stays draconified as that would drastically effect any future timeline. So the writer's cornering themselves is even worse than you realize; TOTK could have *only ever* ended one of two ways, either Zelda is turned back into a Hylian, or Zelda would have had to have died similar to Dragondorf.
Tbh, I don't think so. There is a myriad of ways they can still have new games and the bad ending. There's tens of thousands of years worth of history between Rauru and present day, for one, and who knows how many before that. They could set the new game in that period. Or consider her dead and do the same thing they've done for Rauru and Sonia and just have an assumed child from the royal bloodline never shown on screen. Or have yet another timeline split based on the ending and only make new games assuming the true ending happened.
Yep, TotK deletes every other continuity with the whole "First King of Hyrule" thing, as well as BotW because it retcons the 10,000 year calamity cycle out of existence.
@@DrakenwildI mean in a Period of time of at least 50000 years, the royal family must have had at Somepoint more than just one child. if Hyrule works like a medieval Kingdom, they most Likely marryed on of there children into another Kingdom as means of diplomacy. Thanks to Yona (Sidons wife) we know there must exist more civilization beyond hyrule.
1. Not really. In Wind Waker is made very clear in the game that that Link has nothing to do with the Hero of Legend. 2. There are many series with multi-endings that take just one as the "canon" real ending. And the other are just "optional timelines" 3. TLoZ already has a point in the timeline where it breaks in branches because of the multiple possibilities from Ocarina of Time. 4. Nintendo doesn't follow a rigid timeline in any Zelda game. They pretty much do whatever they want and vaguely connect the stories as they see fit. They could have made an ending where both Zelda and Link turn into dragons and then make the next game as if nothing ever happened, just to leave some ancient engravings about the ancient dragon of light somewhere.
I like the tweak you made to the story! I have an idea on another change that gives a possible expansion on the mystery artifact for reversing Dragonification, and I thought it was where they would go after BoTW too. Instead of having Zelda have both time and light, only give her light powers. You can even have it be a misdirection early on before Sonia or Rauru figures out the reason she cant send herself forwards isn't for lack of practice. So who sent Zelda back? Link did in a moment of panic. He's the one who had the time powers. This explains flurry rush in BoTW and makes all of the memory events hit harder because they are your fault, not Zelda's. Moving forwards, using Recall over the course of the game helps train this ability, and the mystery artifact/dungeon is all about manipulating time to further master it. (Maybe the artifact upgrades Recall to be able to either reverse an objects path OR it's state, such as un-burning a plank or un-damaging weapons). This sets up both the ending and a better sense of succeeding where they once failed, but link cant just reverse 10k years of existence. That's where @aikenlau2500 's tweak comes in too, having link be able to steal dragondorf's stone to finally have enough power to un-dragon Zelda. This does introduce the problem of why not just borrow Sidon or Tulin's stone for example, but you could also help explain that by having a stone attune to someone when they first get it, making it useless for anyone else, and you can only claim it by killing the person who has it. This also helps explain why ganon had to kill Sonia and not just rob her blind to get the stone, if he had just taken it it would have been useless. The player knows they are going to stab the dehydrated man eventually, so this helps give further incentive to go take him out without spoiling dragondorf (or hell, making it seem even more desperate/dramatic by making it look like your only shot to get zelda back just got eaten).
Maybe the Secret Stone could be embedded in the Master Sword having been placed there by Hylia all those years ago before skyward sword. Maybe that iteration of Hylia, the original had time powers and that's how she made the gates of time. And how the Master Sword has had the power to send Link back in time. As for why Hylia would have time powers and not light? Maybe its a give and take between the hero. So one iteration of Zelda has Time powers and that link has light while the next have the opposite.
Tiny nitpick about your story- I feel like the game straight up telling you that turning Zelda back requires a dying dragon might spoil Ganondorf turning into a dragon at the end since I didn't think many people expected that to happen. Maybe instead Link could somehow reclaim Ganondorf's secret stone after defeating Ganondragon, and, being on Zeldragon, use her time powers to transform the dark power stone into a time stone, thus empowering his recall skill and changing her back? It would be kinda cool for both of Zelda's powers to be featured for opposing effects- the Light stone she swallowed changed her into a dragon, and the Time stone she made with Link after Ganondragon's defeat changed her back from a dragon.
Spoilers When I was playing Tears of the Kingdom I thought it was gonna end with Link either l learning of the legend of the Triforce or promising to find a way to change Zelda back and the next game would center around the hunt for the Triforce to wish Zelda back to normal, I was a bit weirded out with how easily and abruptly Zelda got turned back to normal after how much they built up the permanence of the Dragon transformation.
Honestly, the Triforce is the easy, and explainable solution. We already know the Triforce can do...basically anything, including restoring an alternate universe version of itself! So reverting Draconification? Should be easy
They really missed a trick here. It's really not an insurmountable narrative problem. For example, after the point in the game where you see the big reveal with Zelda choosing to eat the secret stone, they could have easily written in Mineru obsessing over what happened and dedicating herself to finding a way to fix it, especially since Rauru and Sonia were dead and Zelda was the only one left alive that Mineru could still help. She had enough time that she could have taken literal millenia to find a solution, so it's plausible enough that she could eventually find one, and they could have added some really cool game content and story centered around Mineru, what being the sage of spirits actually means, etc. And you could set it up so Link has to track down the information after he realizes what happened to Zelda, culminating in the temple quest in which you get Mineru's help. And then you have to still go and do whatever the actual solution is. Then you would still get the emotional impact of her sacrifice and feel like the ending where she is saved is deserved.
Exactly. There are so many ways to solve this narrative problem but of all the options they chose Deus Ex Machina. Wonder if there were some internal reasons for that.
I love your suggestion for the ending. I've always thought the game should have done SOMETHING with the Impa side-plot. Another thing I thought the ending robbed was the whole idea of Link losing his arm, only for him to get it back.
Yeah, that was a very weird decision, too. I'd be unlike Nintendo to have him start bleeding out from an open wound in the ending to the game but at the very least have him keep Rauru's arm. If they want to signify loss of access to Zonai powers, it's enough if the bracelets fell of or something.
@@Drakenwild Maybe Link only gets his arm back if you've collected every Light of Blessing, so all the darkness has been purged from his body. Otherwise, you get the same ending but Link's arm is black and shriveled, and maybe only barely usable.
I agree, I do think the Zelda catch parallels were amazing. I was disappointed Zelda was recovered. It felt so cheep. I like your true ending idea as well. I felt like another sacrifice to bring her back would be cool. Like if link needed to become a dragon to take on her burden or something. People think outcomes that are sad or not "everyone lives" are bad. but I like sad emotional endings. It drives the point of what it costs to save the world.
Exactly. I understand the desire for a happy ending but this story has been set up to be a tragedy only for the writers to chicken out at the last second and retreat. The least they could do is set up the resolution but either way I think either Zelda should still suffer some form of a consequence or, like you've suggested, have Link take her place instead. You lose the catch that way but it's not worth it to sacrifice the entire story just for a nice final scene.
Building on that you could make it so that Link has to recall zelda but in the process he loses his zoni arm because of the amount of power coursing through it and if you haven't gotten all of the light of blessings then his arm will be shriveled but if you do get all of them then the true ending happens were link loses his zoni powers but still has a working arm (his normal arm). This works more with the ending that is in the game instead of changing everything they did, and seems like if Nintendo were to really change the story it would have to be something like this (though they probably will never even think about doing any of the sort)
A thing I realized while watching the video is that because Zelda had the Master Sword in her forehead for thousands of years would mean that there were two master swords and two Zeldas during both Calamites. I loved Tears and also enjoyed the story over all but this is one of the reasons why I really don't like time traveling in stories.
Yes, that is 100% what's going on. Time travel is weird and really difficult to handle in stories, it's soooo easy to mess up and just create unnecessary confusion.
Yup, but it does actually work, since she'd be basically sealed above the 'cloud barrier' which only came down when Gannon(sp) reawakened and broke it.
I think the setup and parallel reasoning is there for a "Super-Duper Recall" but the execution was kinda too vague. Like Sonia and Zelda both boosted Rauru's abilities, so it stands to reason that they can do the same for Link's Recall. The force ghosts lingering around is examplified in BotW with the Champions and Rhoam. The Champions still have abilities of sorts since they are able to transfer their powers to Link. Nothing here is completely unfounded, though execution could've been elaborated on for sure, ESPECIALLY in mandatory quests. Linearity is a necessity to a certain degree for a good story.
How to turn Zelda back: If you collect all the memories, Link will stand on the dragon's snout and look mournful at her. Zelda will respond and rewind her own time, turning her human again. This is possible because as a dragon, her rewind power is extraordinarily powerful. Edit: I wrote this before finishing the video. I like yours better because it requires more than a fetch quest.
I do think It has sense since Zelda brings her time powers to the hand of rauru that link uses... thats why with some power boost from Sonnia and rauru link can get her back
According to mineru in the post credit scene, Rauru and sonia must have channeled their powers of light and time through link to achieve the reversion of draconification, so in order to understand and analize her statement we need to understand 3 things. 1-What the power of time does 2- what the power of light does 3- what are the properties of draconification 1.To learn about the power of time we really only have to look at memory 8 Recall as an ability, requires the user to draw out an objects memory and return it back to its original point, this in turn sort of brings into play that in order to use recall one mist know the current state of an object and have a rough knowledge of memory of their past point and what lead it to the present. Its interesting to not that zelda used recall on multiple objects at once during the fight against ganondorf and over this power is also what allowed her to travel to the past, so gameplay limitations aside, recall is much more flexible in lore. 2.The light powers are interesting since while recall might seem like enough to do the job, draconification as process packs a lot of energy, and well, rauru's power of light seems to deal with manipulation of energy even within the body of others. Ganondorf's words are interesting, "you bind my heart and steal my magic" this is interesting since it shows that rauru is directly draining ganondorf's power of darkness, this is further confirmed in developer interviews Rauru can remove energy from people and purify it, converting it into light power, while this might seem irrelevant since recall would basically be reverting zelda back, we need to get into point 3 3.3. Why does swallowing a secret stone specifically turns people into dragons? While there is no given explanation in game about about draconification, the function of the secret stones is explained in They merely amplify powers inherent to their wielder, it doesn't create nor change their powers and it does not grant more knowledge about them either. Swallowing the stone traforms the user into a dragon, but this seems like some random quirk that seemingly happens " just because?" Well, its important to note that in east asian culture dragons symbolize natural forces, they embody aspects of nature and were used to explain many natural disasters and evens like tides, rain, strong winds etc. The secret stones amplify the power of their user but when they do that, they embody the element that originates the power of their user, so when one consumes their secret stone, they must be consuming their own power and thus embodying their element. This explains why dragons are seemingly powerful and bursting limitless energy, ganondorfs demon king transformation also seems to think that his power is limitless which is interesting to note. In conclusion: since mineru states that Rauru and Sonia must be channelling their powers through link and we see that happen. Plus taking into account that zelda was embodying her element with seemingly limitless energy. Raurus light powers must have removed the excess energy inside zeldas body and purified it, while sonia reverted her back into her original form.
Plus what would benefit the plot for zelda to remain a dragon? The entire symbolism of the story revolves around a cycle, link trying to reach for zelda at the start and at the end is the major climax of the set up of the plot. Zelda dying or being gone for god as a dragon would break the themes established by the story. The sacrifice zelda made isnt even poetrayed as tragic, its a way to show that she has full trust on link and is resolved to tap into something as unknown as draconification just so she can help her knight who also sacrificed himself and slept for 100 years just to help her. Zeldas sacrifice is the same as links sacrifice in botw and is also part of the symbolism of the cycle and ultimately, both sacrifices in the past lead to a happy ending in the future where both end happy.
While your explanation may be valid, it still doesn't change the fact that Rauru's and Sonia's intervention comes completely at random at the end there, doesn't tie into anything that happened in the gameplay and the explanations we have for it (including your own) are largely in the realm of fan theories and not things that are actually established by the story. Having Zelda remain as a dragon doesn't serve the story, which is why it shouldn't be the only ending. If you want to have her always turn back then imho all the legwork to set it up should be done as mandatory quests. I also disagree with it not being portrayed as tragic, her changing into a dragon is preceeded by Mineru freaking out about it, Zelda is shown to clearly be in pain during the transformation, screaming for Link to protect everyone as she believes she will effectively die and cries while flying away, as Sages look on under a stormy sky. After Link finds that out, he's visibly shaken as well. This is not an emotionally neutral scene.
@@Drakenwild its ok to call it a fan theory, but to say its not established by the story is a disingenuous stament. UA-cam hates links, but this is a copy paste of bigger post I made, I linked the quotes and videos of the characters saying everything I am explaining. Its literally just information you find in the memories themselves, I just linked to the fact that mineru theorizes that rauru and sonia mist have channeled their powers through link which if mineru's theory is correct then the information about the powers of rauru and sonia perfectly checks out. I also dont think zelda turning back undermines anything, she still had full intention to tap into a completely unknown power just so she could help link, its a full demonstration of her resolved and courage. It even ties back to link being "dead" for 100 years for zelda and now zelda was "dead" for 10.000+ years for link, it compliments and cycles back to botw. Plus zelda remaining as a dragon would break the established symbolism of link failing to grab zelda at the start of the game and it would also be basically the end of the bloodline of the goddess leaving hyrule and the cycle of the demon, the hero and princess in a broken state as there would be no future princesses. Zelda coming back doesn't break any rules established by the story so I dont see a problem with it.
@@dreamer1292Right, like, the game *literally* establishes, in order, that: - Zelda's recall is op - Rauru's magical bracelet can channel others magic and use it forever - energy is transferable (and in hindsight: Rauru can steal and manipulate energy) - recall works by bringing something back to where it started, based on someone's memory - the draconification passage isn't exactly accurate (immortal dragon my ass) Add that to the fact east asia wouldn't need an explanation for what a dragon is because it's intrinsic to their culture so they *know* the dragon is the purest form of someone's power and the ending makes sense The pacing problem could be fixed by Rauru being a companion, I'll die on this hill. Have him mention that maybe if he steals Zelda's energy he can power up Zelda's recall present on Link, but it would need someone who's watched over Zelda this whole time to add to Link's memory from before the fall. Have Impa point the obvious as part of her research (the points you just made) and add Sonia to the story for the love of god, a quest to find her because she's the one watching over Zelda and her knowledge of recall is needed. Maybe unlocked after the memories quest line is finished
I remember feeling so dissatisfied after I saw the game's canon ending, so I appreciate this video, and I like the potential ending you came up with. The story as a whole felt a little lacking to me, it was the same as BotW with clearing four big dungeons to help you fight the boss. Plus one, because they tried a little bit. Having something like that be another part of the story, but one you only find if you really played the game, would have added a lot of fun to it for me.
The problem is that, again, nobody said zelda could not come back. At some point, early on, someone spread a fake quote about "draconification" and that was that. The only problem with the end is that its vague how it was achieved, and really the only explaination needed was something like the ballad of the goddess playing right before the dive, to show that the triforce was still with her, link had attained it, and was making his wish. Putting in rauru and sonia messes this up and thus makes it harder to comprehend.
@@Drakenwild yeah hate to get semantic but she said "you" Its not once even implied Zelda changed herself back and its not once even implied that zelda could not be turned back, it is only ever established that: 1. You will not retain yourself 2. You cant change your mind Not even considering that they could have failed to understand how it works, and going purely off what is said - the rules are clear - you will become a mindless wanderer in exchange for immortality. It is then reasonable to assume that actions could be taken to restore you, just as link's arm was able to be restored. Should it have been better explained? Sure, is it a plothole? No.
I think the both of you have a point here: While it's true that it was never *explicitly* said that draconification was irreversible, it was *heavily* implied with nothing else saying otherwise.
wow thats actually such a good story retcon. i wish soo much that nintendo would add DLC to retcon the current ending into what you suggested. Love the videos Keep it up
I think the game could've did something like this: since mineru posses the ability to separate one's soul from the body, perhaps she could do the same with zelda, telling you to take her secret stone to the light dragon where she could perform her powers and extract out zelda's soul. Afterwards, she'll tell you that because of the draconification and countless years spent dormant in the skies of hyrule, zelda's essence was incredibly weak and cannot return to human form in any normal means. The only way that might bring zelda back to life is something called "the ancient goddess's aspect", located at the very bottom if hyrule castle where the zonai once practiced divine rituals for the goddess Hylia. Link must defeat ganondorf, who guards the artifact, knowing it's importance in order to retrieve this artifact and use it to restore zelda's human state. This also gives mineru more involvement in the lore since all she did in totk was give you a mech you never use and some piece of ancient lore which most people who completed dragon's tears should already know.
Also a valid solution. I went with Impa route cause it was already in the game and you can still involve Mineru in such a scenario by having her explain why the artifact can't work right now. Mineru was very underused.
I think it would’ve been really nice if there was one final quest _after_ defeating Dragon Ganon where Link does… something… to de-draconify Zelda… or maybe like we have to take Zelda’s Secret Stone away to finish off Ganon, turning Zelda back into a human, but in a coma, and we have to find some way to revive her in the final scene of the game 🤷🏻♂️
I really don’t doubt TOK has a good ending but the pacing for me is unforgivable because first it’s not even linear and not taken place in current time by the player until the end. And the four repeated cutscenes after each dungeon was so terrible for the story I’m surprised they did that. Voice acting is still a bit off to me and feels very dubed best way I can describe is a dubed English anime it feels just like that. For those 3 reasons I personally think it’s extremely poor in its story as a whole.
It has quite a bit of faults, yes, but personally, the Rauru thing in the ending there was the biggest narrative gripe for me. The four repeating cutscenes were annoying, too, but bearable. They felt like just the kind of a dumb, wierd thing that Nintendo would do.
I disagree with the initial premise that the sacrifice was rendered meaningless. The draconification was presented as irreversible in 99% of circumstances, but Link as the Hero of Time combined with the special circumstances of defeating Ganondorf and his relationship with Rauru paved the way for that rare 1% circumstance that Zelda’s draconification could be reversed. Zelda did not expect that to be a possibility nor did any of her fellow Zonai, so when she made the choice to make that sacrifice, from her understanding at that point in time, it was permanent, and up to the ending, the player has the appropriate emotion that she was lost. I thought the ending was great, because I’m a little more open-minded when it comes to these magic systems and worlds these writers create, and try to use my imagination to explore and explain why they made certain story decisions.
Agree to disagree. Maybe if Rauru was present throughout the whole game as a companion you can talk to I'd feel different but as is, I don't even get the feeling that Link had much relationship with him to begin with. He just randomly comes back.
@@Drakenwild Isn’t Rauru’s form present in every shrine bestowing Link a Light of Blessing throughout the game? I’d argue that Rauru’s support is seen almost every step of the way from the aspect of the shrines helping him cure the corruption received from that first assault from Ganondorf.
@@stoicchampion Yes...and no. We do see statues of him and Sonia in every shrine, but it's not truly him, just an image of him- not to mention, we don't even know if it was him who built all of the shrines, or he just oversaw the building of them and the other Zonai were the ones lending the Light Blessings, a la the monks from BOTW. It feels *really* empty. Not to mention... A) This version of Link was the Hero of the WILDS, not the Hero of Time- the Recall ability was explicitly stated to simply be a watered down version of Zelda's power passed down to him. B) While draconification was never stated to be explicit, there was such a HUGE emphasis on it that it feels like such an ass pull when it was reverted in the ending- it comes off as the writers writing themselves into a corner, and had a clumsy compromise in order to include those scenes. I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy the ending- in fact, I think they're pretty okay. However, as Drakenwild said, agree to disagree- others, including me, feel that it wasn't enough to justify the reversal.
the best part about TOTK is that the devs heard specifically me say "man I wish I could fight one of those" while looking at Dinraal in BOTW and were like "yeeeaaaah sure". Turning zelda back as a post game sequence would have been waaaay better, great suggestion!
I've never had a problem with the ending of TotK, but I really liked your idea of the Impa quest! That would have for sure made the anticipation a lot more existent. Though for me, I remember vividly the moment that Zelda turned into a dragon, and all I could think of was ways that it could be reversed. And in my mind, I always felt that it must have something to do with Link and the recall ability that was introduced in the beginning of the game (seeing as Zelda herself gave it to Link, it just felt so fitting that she essentially would help herself in the future without her knowing it). So that in itself already gave me some anticipation I guess. Slightly off topic (?): I know it's a no-brainer, but I've completely given up on writing terminology and storytelling theory as a checklist to measure how "good" a story is. The moment I found out there are people out there who didn't like the movie Parasite, I was so bummed out since it's so insanely well made and uses all the tricks from every book on film theory, story writing etc. So in theory, it would have been an "objectively perfect movie". Turns out though, art is subjective, and theory is more of a suggestion rather than a blueprint. I loved the story of TotK. Probably my favorite of all time in the Zelda series. And yes, in a game full of monsters and magic, it never felt cheap to me that Zelda's dragonification was reversed. It's literally magic and I have no clue how it works, it just does I guess. I don't think that Tears of the Kingdom has any "problems with its writing", and I don't believe any piece of writing has "problems". Just felt like getting that off my chest. It just so happened to be in your comment section hahah. Keep up the grind!
I mean, I only made this video because the ending did feel cheap to me and many other people, looking at the comment section. I didn't come to that conclusion because I'm some fancy pants writing theory art critic, it was just a subjective feeling after experiencing it. I think this story is really good on paper but at places it lacks in execution. The ending was the thing that broke the suspension of disbelief and laid bare other issues that I have. The inclusion of the writing theory in this wasn't to pose as an authority or create a checklist, I just figured it would be interesting to break down why this ending doesn't work for so many people. Plus, writing rules are meant to be broken anyway, it's just a matter of doing it skilfully, ya know? Anyway, more power to ya for loving this story! Hope you have a nice day ^^
I have literally finished TotK earlier today, I found the ending amazing, though I can't deny that I did heavily question Zelda just being turned back into a human despite everything we've been told; that scene felt rather awkward, to be completely honest, but it did not detract from my enjoyment of the game and did only slightly for the story. What I question more though is- given that Zelda in the Light Dragon form has existed since the founding of Hyrule and so did the restored Master Sword, does that mean that for several millenia there've been two Master Swords, and- for the past couple of centuries- technically two Zeldas as well? I know, very minor thing, but- the Master Sword has always been pictured as this mythical weapon and now there are suddenly two of them which slightly lessens its uniqueness in my opionon, even if it is technically the same one.
Yes, that is exactly what that means. Though I didn't find that too problematic, personally, that's just types of things you get when you venture into the time travel land. And the ending is amazing! Just wish we got there differently ^^'
@@Drakenwild I agree- I mean, I expected Zelda to be turned back into her human self from the moment I learned that she's the Light Dragon, but given how well-written the rest of the game was (at least I think so) the way it was executed just felt... rushed a bit. It was worth it for the callback to the start of the game, but I think that that scene in the ending where Sonia and Rauru turn Zelda back into a human was the only point when I questioned the story of this game.
@@tomaszwojciula I have a handful of other criticisms but that issue with the ending I talked about in the video is the most severe imo. The other things aren't interrupting the experience, or at least they didn't for me.
Another idea: DLC perhaps. Impa learns that you need all the powers combined (or maybe introduce the triforce here). But that Zelda’s dragon presence is holding Ganondorf at bey or something. Then you go around and convince the sages to try when the time is right. And the true ending sees all the sages together on the temple of time like presently, and together they turn Zelda back. Perhaps Minuru has to sacrifice herself (as the sage of spirit).
It 100% was. I guess it's partly my fault for getting hyped up about things that weren't shown but with all the sky stuff being shown off in the trailers, I expected a city in the sky (a bit like Academy town in Heroes 5). Great Sky Island was the closest approximation of that but being ruined and abandoned it was really underwhelming.
I know. Hardly a revolutionary concept. Maybe they wanted to do something like that but scrapped it, which is why this plot thread is now left hanging?
I guess the way one can even remotely begin to explain it canonically how it happened is with some form of anything, Sonias been dead for 20k+ years, shes been able to mingle with the ancestral zonai spirits of the past in heaven or w/e spirits go afterwards. So she may have had time to tell Rauru afterwards of him passing on to the other realm and joining her, telling him "Oh yeah we can do this lets fix Zelda up after they defeat Crenando". While not relevant to the video. In terms of story elements they did badly / didn't explain at all what so ever that really gets me? The one thing I'm also really nettled about TOTK is how they got Crunkdorf down into the depths when they couldn't even lay a single FINGER on the guy. You cannot tell me they were able to force him down there when they're basically all on deaths door. I want to know HOW they did this. This is one of the biggest plot holes they have yet to cover and it infuriates me to no end.
You could try to explain it that way but that's just a case of using a fan theory to cover up bad writing, you know? Since we don't actually know how Zelda afterlife works. As for pushing Ganondorf in the Depths, my running assumption based on environmental storytelling was that they either caught up to him or were defending in one of the old Zonai fortresses, since foundation of Hyrule looks to be much older than the Temple of Time. Still, it would have been preferred if they actually shown us what was happening outside of key moments, because as is it kinda feels we got cliff notes version of the story.
@@Drakenwild I understand that but its one of the most logical reasonings to. Sonia did have a very long time to spend in the after life whatever it works like. Where spirits seem to be able to come back to the world of the living and impart knowledge and do things they wish. A la OOT Link coming to the living world to give TP Link some training. King Rhoam is able to stay there for ages, help Link once he reawakens, then disappears then at the end of the game comes back to see them from afar basically saying "yeah they're gonna be all right." :) So clearly there is some precedent spirits are able to return and enact upon the mortal world if they wish to and come back whenever they wish after they supposedly "pass on". And the thing about Ganon is thathe's in the center of the room with them blocking the escape of the room, thats one thing that doesn't make any sense. You don't put him in the more vulnerable position while you have every chance to run away and escape then after the fact. I just wish Nintendo gave us more cutscenes or something. They had so many chances to fill in the gaps of important story moments. Could've had the battle that lead to all of this in the end and see how it happened. Maybe a Hyrule Warriors esque game will cover it? Who knows. Age of Calamity did more to give us insights of the worlds structure and some inbetween lore of how things could have gone than BOTW ever did really. And thats saying a lot IMHO.
Totally agree. I also think the story we got completely breaks my immersion as a gamer. We didn’t need to do anything to bring Zelda back, no Triforce was used, it just kinda happens 4 no reason.
I agree that they botched the assignment somewhere, and the ending sucked because of it. The problem is, the central pillar of the assignment is "Link saves Zelda". Hard stop. From a Watsonian perspective, she is the only surviving descendent of the Goddess, and we need to keep the bloodline going. From a Doylist perspective, not saving her is a solid end of the entire franchise, and the Shareholders would riot. The problem is that they didn't do enough setup and the ending they gave us feels like an ass-pull. Maybe they intended the Memory with the big laser attack to hint at how much more powerful three Secret Stone users pooling their power is than three working alone, but I am only making *THAT* connection as I'm writing this. ...ok, I am going to watch your video now. 🙃
The thing is that they are really not obligated to follow up the "Zelda stays a dragon" ending with never making another Zelda game again. They can make the games that are set earlier chronologically, they can make games that are clearly disconnected from totk and not worry about it, they can make games that follow up the true ending where Zelda is turned back and not the bad end or they could have made a dlc to address that if doing that in the main game was too much. There's so many ways to have more Zelda games and not botch the ending that it's really not an excuse.
@@Drakenwild I mentioned that I hadn't finished your video when writing it. Now I have. I think I have found a happy medium between your idea and what I *THINK* was the original intent. First, at the end of the Molduga Cookout scene, make more emphasis on pooling Secret Stone power being multiplicative rather than additive. Next, we split up the endings. Bad end: Stuck as Light Dragon. Good end: Having all 5 Sages. True end: The above, all the memories, plus taking out Fake Zelda and Master Koga. We only care about "Good End": Force Ghosts empower Link. Dragondorf's Stone reforms and bonds with Link. Cut to the Sages climbing out of the Castle Hole, stopping to see their Stones glow. Link, now further empowered, channels that energy into the Light Dragon as per normal. Now cut to Zelda's sleeping spirit, and have *HER* Stone glow. She is effectively casting Recall on herself, boosted by *EIGHT* other Sages. Ending continues as normal. While not great, all this gives an internal logic for Zelda's return to make sense, while only making minor edits to the existing game.
NOTHING in the story stated that draconification was irreversible, mineru spoke of a tale and the biggest drawbacks told was that you would “lose oneself” and that’s EXACTLY what happened, Zelda lost herself with no control to comeback herself, and the noble sacrifice had its function; to restore the master sword with the necessary time it needed, which was what she planned, she didn’t come back out of “lol random” they used immense power of incredible chosen people to achieve this and the powers used were explained in the story which includes many things like time and repelling. in terms of the Sanderson laws it still qualifies, there was a miracle not a contradiction. Don’t forget that “miracles” that defies fate also works as good stories too, and the one in totk did that spectacularly.
Memory 16 at 1:40 Mineru says "You... won't be able to change back". It's pretty clear cut to me. At no point was the concept of reverting back if you kept your mind introduced and at no point does Mineru tell Link "look, she can't revert back but maybe there's a chance".
@@Drakenwild she says “I told you” still referring to the tale, and the tale does NOT state she can’t come back, her saying she can’t come back is her worries not a law because she doesn’t know a way to crack this and this also came true; Neither Mineru nor Zelda planned or solved this problem, Zelda really got stuck like that lost for thousands of years, it was link and the other two who did the saving and what they did does not contradict the tale.
At best it's a case of 'unreliable narrator' where a character unknowingly passes along incorrect information. That can be done in hard magic systems, but the the event must be within the rules of the universe. If the game had even slightly hinted at something, say the triforce or any of the other excellent suggestions in these comments, it would have been much better than-ghost wizard ancestors did it
@@Grandwigg the triforce-undoing-bad-thing is kind of overdone, I would rather them save the triforce for something different. This is why I liked the spirits power more because they hinted it in the very same cutscene they explained the immortal tale by also explaining each characters powers, in the end they combined all that to revert Zelda back. I knew they were building something with that explanation and they did, and I know I was not the only one who picked on it too.
@@JunDagekiIt all made sense to me too. It was even foreshadowed in a way when Zelda and Sonia boosted Rauru’s power during the Molduga invasion. Sonia discussing with Zelda about her time reversal powers also foreshadowed this happening as well. The time reversal power iirc also takes up the majority of Links gauntlet as it being on the back of his hand rather than fingers. I can see how people would miss those things though.
Tears sometimes feels like an unfished game to me at least looking at the story. I too wish that the true ending would have been about turning Zelda back into a human and i realy like the concept of there being a consequence for her actions. Here's my personal concept: After waking up she would get a completely new personality, she still is Zelda but not the Zelda that you started the adventure with. Just as Mineru said: "To become an imortal dragon is to lose onself."
That is a viable option for a consequence, yep. There's lots that could have been done with it, even though it being a final cutscene was a smidge restrictive.
Oh, so like, she's lost both her memories and parts of her... Hylianity(? You get the gist), and Link has to help her recover what she can, like a reversal of BOTW? I'd also like to propose physical consequences, ex. Stubby horns, has to pick out scales (with not an insignificant amount of blood) at periods of time.
I was thinking a similar thing however this is how I would go about it: End of the game as you say The Light dragon drops you off and you talk to Impa end credit stuff all goes on then a quest update named ??? Appears leading you to talk to Impa and she reminds us of the oldest of tales Din, Nayru & Farore creating the world & Hylia ruling over it along with the triforce & the cycle of death & rebirth of the Goddess, Hero & Demon King, Blood, Spirit & Will, which we (the current hyruleans) have known as the Calamity & the Artefact known as the triforce was known to grant a wish to the pure of heart, a power such as this could return Zelda to her true form. And so begins the uncovering of the pieces of the triforce quest, clues will be left in both the Zonai temple of time & the OoT Temple of Time both refering to a third temple in the Lanayru Dessert, though not knowing of a desert of that name you go to the only desert you know, the Gerudo Desert where some old scriptures tell of the goddess of the Sands and such going deeper into the desert than ever through a lost woods like sandstorm finding the Zuna Village, seemingly abandoned however mentions of older games can be found all around perhaps even a mention of a gathering of a Minish, a Oocca & a Zonai , finally finding a piece of lore of a northern Castle that became a monument prophesied to stand long after the end of Calamity & to herald the birth of a new era, which then leads you to a hidden chasm leading to the lowest levels of the Depths and an immaculate Castle (basically the castle of the sleeping Zelda from Adventure of Link) going through it as a dungeon activating three spiritual stonee esque pillars, as you activate the green pillar what sounds like a clap of thunder shudders outside of the dungeon (a sonic boom) the blue activates an earthquake & the Red an explosion, and entering the throne room who is sat lounging on the throne other than...Master Kohga who less erratic than usual removes his mask, as he reveals his head a long mane of ink black hair with Gerudo Red roots one blind eye, one traditionally red sheikah eye he speaks "I've played my part well over these long years as did my father and my fathers father, we knew however well meaning the intent, the IGNORANCE! of Hylian Kings will always delay and damage more than is needed at the beginning of the cycle & that while Gerudo would rather not be considered villainous, that ancient hatred filled parasite, Demise has latched onto their innate power and so my clan positioned themselves in such a way that Demise's incarnations in some way trusted us enough that we could mess up his plans from the inside and ensure the kings of hyrule didn't ultimately fail at their one job, anywho... you've started on a second adventure now, to wake your sleeping princess how fitting, when you leave here you world will not be exactly how you atleast, not this you remembers it, trust in your spirit Link it will recall..." Kogha places his mask back on and disappears in the way yiga do, but the eyes on the seals are the correct way, as you leave the northern Castle and reach the surface what has changed: .Skyloft & the wind tribe have appeared in the sky. .the great plateau and the lost woods have switched locations (the lost woods changes to resemble what OoT's lost wood/Kokiri forest would look like if converted into TotK the great plateau mirroring the temple of times location in OoT if brought into TotK. . (This is when I started to realise I've been typing a while so should probably sum up soon) protruding from death mountain is a tower which looking closely and squinting a truly reborn Volvagia erupts from within through the top (not the corrupted resurrection from OoT or the questionably canon dragon knight of the same name but the original guardian we never meet) Finally summing up you go to each location and the spirit of the hero grants you glimpses of the previous hero's that lead them to different pieces of the triforce collecting all three after fighting a Hero's Shade of sorts that has the equivalent of their full equipment in end game to fight obviously one would have a puzzle before the hero fight one a battle gauntlet, and one some sort of courage challenge possibly really creepy reinvention of the forest temple from adult links timeline in oot/TP mixed that might work. .when you finally collect the triforce, returning to where you sent the master sword back in time the light dragon rests and after you make your wish Zelda is returned but as a child perhaps even a baby, the cycle has been warped off track and so this is the triforces attempt at realigning things slightly. Anyway that's my idea, hope it was a fun read
@@Drakenwild I think so, I like to think that it would help it feel more tied to what has been as well as solidifying how far removed this hyrule is compared to how it was
It's been different. I actually liked the story in BotW quite a bit, came into it without expectations and was satisfied with what I got. Here the story was much grander and it had its moments but also quite a few pitfalls, where BotW was consistent across the board.
Tiny nitpick with your story- I think that the game straight up telling you to use the energy of a dying dragon kinda gives away the Dragondorf twist at the end since I don't think many people expected Ganondorf to turn into a dragon for a final fight- maybe instead Link could reclaim the secret stone from the defeated Dragondorf, use Zeldragon's time powers (and the new secret stone) to somehow empower recall, and use that to transform Zelda back? Would be kinda cool for Zelda to get to "use" two secret stones- the one symbolising her light powers turned her into a dragon, and the one symbolising her time powers turned her back into a human I suppose this does make it hard to tie to completion, alternatively I suppose they could use something like using all the secret stones from all the unlocked sages to empower Recall enough to reverse draconification, thus locking the true ending behind all sages?
Alternatively, you could just be vague with wording. Say that you need a lot of energy to recharge it and maybe have the Sages try to pour their power into it and demonstrate that as not enough. And then when Dragondorf goes out, he releases a whole bunch of energy, judging by that explosion, and then it all clicks into place.
@@Drakenwild oops i replied twice lmfao Yeah that definitely works- also solves the mystery about where the sages all disappeared off to after Dragondorf forms ig, especially if you dump a line in there that just goes "we are here we escaped the collapsing castle" (although if I was told i needed a lot of energy my first instinct would just be to try to dump a lifetimes supply of zonai batteries on the dragon reverse item lmao)
Yeah but my mind the reasons I was able to turn back is because her duty as a dragon was fulfilled meaning that either she dies or she turns back somehow they really did mess up when they had the two ghosts come the whole thing could work if they remove the ghost and just explain it as Zelda's duty as a dragon has been fulfilled but lynx connected to her meaning of she dies something might happen to link
They probably could've just had Impa say something along the lines of "your recall ability could theatrically change her back, but I'm not sure it is powerful enough." And that would have at least made Rauru and Sonia randomly appearing at the make a bit mor sense. Unfortunately, zelda game are always made gameplay first story second, and though this means we have some of the best gameplay ever, the story lovers are usually disappointed. Here's hoping the zelda move will make-up for it.
You can have both, is the thing. You can make the game gameplay first and still write around that gameplay in a way that makes sense. I'm not asking for the game to be written like Red Dead Redemption but man, at least make the ending feel good you guys :c
Even the gameplay itself has something to be desired- don't get me wrong, I *adored* the gameplay in TOTK and BOTW. But the problem with TOTK, in my honest opinion, is that it's usually only great because it recycles so much from BOTW's gameplay. If you look closely, in both gameplay and narrative, TOTK is (HOT TAKE INCOMING) really only a "remix" of BOTW.
Honestly I felt the weight of Zelda’s sacrifice just through what it meant from her perspective. The viewer knowing it was ultimately reversible doesn’t make her any less terrified of what she’s doing, and it doesn’t make the moment itself less tragic from an empathy standpoint.
I wouldn't mind the current ending if there were *consequences.* Like what if it was Zelda's turn to have amnesia after a long nap? What if she came back wrong and was some dragon hybrid? (Lizard people anyonee??) This fix would also work great if those same consequences were in place. Even with all the build up of hope that Link can get Zelda back, make draconification have SERIOUS consequences, even if it is just turning Zelda into an anthropomorphic dragon. Nintendo missed out big time there on sales too.
A thought I had to 'fix' the ending, even keeping the ghosts, would be that the king and queen show up and pull/coax out Zelda's spirit from her dragon form (through a combination of light magic finding and her soul and time magic reverting it to before she was altered). This could cause the draconic form to revert (as the soul is no longer there) to Zelda's original body. Zelda and Link have a farewell scene, perhaps somehow granting Link with some information or magic mark that grants him some high authority like making him the new king (more likely a regent or steward of the kingdom). She would tell him that she knows they'll meet again someday (probably her thinking about the afterlife, but the fans would know what it really means). Spirit realm scene fades, Zelda's body falls towards the ground, and Link still catches her as normal, not to 'save her life', but to honor her sacrifice and give her a proper burial. If they REALLY wanted to have this sort of scene, we could then have the goodbye scene with Mineru(sp?), but alter it a bit. Instead of it happening right after, have Purah(sp?) thank Mineru for her help restoring the kingdom (implying it's been a bit of time since since Zelda's burial, we could even get that scene as either a little flashback or before this whole scene). Mineru, with her words and the construct drooping, is obviously tired and held on as long as she could to help the kingdom and its people that Zelda sacrificed everything for. As she lets go, we see the spirit particles indicating a spirit has left the mortal realm (like we saw with the King and Champions at the end of BotW). Here the Sages would could, reaffirm their commitment to the realm, to honor Zelda's sacrifice, to follow Link in her stead, and pledge to help restore the kingdom so it is ready for when Zelda's spirit is reborn. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why I like this, beyond it being how I'd have like see it play out, is that it covers why this couldn't happen earlier as Sonya(sp?) (I think it's obvious by now I SUCK at remembering how to spell names XD ) could have easily been trapped by Gannon(sp?), in a similar say as the Champions were trapped by the Blights, so only after his defeat was her spirit free. Zelda's sacrifice still means something, it was a sacrifice in truth one she never thought could be undone. It's a bittersweet ending. Yeah, it's still a bit of a 'a wizard did it' sort of thing that Raru(sp?) and Sonya could do this, but it's also somewhat plausible as they both felt a connection to her, that she embodies both the sacred and time aspects that they do, so it's more acceptable in my head for it to make sense that this could work. Another reason I like this is that this would unshackle Zelda from the royal bloodline, which could open the series up to Zelda being the main playable character in a FUCKING ZELDA GAME! Seriously, it's called 'The Legend of Zelda' not 'The Legend of Link', Zelda does fuck all, nothing really noteworthy ever (until recently), Link is the one who does LEGENDARY stuff! If the final scene still happened, then it would be Mineru and Purah telling the others that Zelda, her spirit at least, will be back some day. That implies that the characters did some research and determined this for themselves, which gives the Sages a reason for their cringe declaration, and would give Link something to strive for. Possibly even setting up a new Royal Bloodline through Link and....Purah (get that shika blood back into the mix) (there are better options but one of them is dead for over 100 years and the other would only ever produce female gerudo(sp?) offspring) (actually, it would be kinda funny if that were the case and a reborn Gannon was this Link's descendant).
@@Drakenwild They actually did set this up somewhat. The fact they could feel a connection to her, as she embodies both Time and Light. Then in the tea scene, when Zelda knocks over her cup, Sonya explains HOW to use rewind, and she seems to be much more skilled at it than Zelda. It might need a bit more, but it still fits better than the BS they pulled.
I think if Zelda turning back if Link did everything he was supposed to, so you can have like two endings. I don't think that was too much to ask. I would like my choices to matter some.
I think Tears of the Kingdom's story is kind of not good overall regardless of the respective magic system but yeah that is overlooked in TOTK. Funny enough it would have been cool if they left the tragedy of learning what happens to Zelda just that and she helps you beat the Demon Dragon and that's it. The third game could introduce a new threat while also making finding a way to reverse dragonification a big goal. Maybe that recons the whole "There's no going back" but at least it's not a cop out in the form of a last minute 'psyche' and you get a brand new game that moves pass the malice and gloom and I'd argue even the Sky and Depths for a slightly more condensed but more packed and interesting Hyrule with life flourishing more and more.
Or they could have just made a DLC that happens after you beat the game and has you help Zelda turn back through the Impa plotline that was dropped. There were options better than this.
When I saw a new Drakenwild video, I was like, "Yipee!" Then I saw the "spoiler ahead" text at the start of the video and I knew I had to stop watching. I was so excited! Thanks so much Drakenwild for warning people about spoilers, though I'm getting close to beating the game, I just got my forth sage! :)
I think the biggest issue with the story is how things were built up The trailers showed something really dark and there was mystery in who the Zonia were you couldn’t on the internet without seeing a theory but in the game it’s nothing like that maybe it was my fault maybe I let the theories get to me too much This game’s story feels disconnected from the other games for example in the other games Gannondorf has been the same guy throughout the franchise except in totk which is an odd choice Could you imagine if the Gannondorf in this game was the same Gannondorf from the other games with all his history and battles I feel they tried doing a kind of reboot with the other games being in the “distant past” meaning we get a new character who is called Gannondorf. I think a different story was being built up in the first game I believe Botw was more about Zelda than Link the memories are about her and her sealing power and the the dlc memories have Zelda in them in some way even the spin off game is more about Zelda but the sequel does less of that instead focusing on the new Gannondorf and the new origin of hyrule the beginning isn’t from Skyloft anymore it’s from the Zonia it feels disconnected like a new story is written over the old one Imagine if the story was still focused on Zelda who for most of her journey has been unsure of herself and without her powers but after going under the castle they discover Gannondorf’s body who has been sealed for many thousands of years in pure hate his malice spilling out of his body maybe theory of the ancient hylians using him for ancient energy still works the years of draining had made him into the mess seen now until Link and Zelda get too close except Link falls into the hole instead of Zelda now she’s the playable character with the quest of rebuilding the master sword and stopping Gannondorf The Zonia stay a mystery but it’s hinted at them being people who stayed in skyloft no time travel Maybe the fake Link is wearing the hero of time tunic because that’s the link Gannondorf thinks about the first Link to stop him or Skyloft Link the first ever Link in the timeline Going back to skyloft could bring back Fi and Demise With Zelda having to fight and train maybe she learns about her past like sheik and the CDI Zelda Perhaps the secret stones are Tri-force pieces I did think 3 for each tri-force piece but there’s only 8 unless they bring back the link between the Kokori and Koroks making a champion from the past Kokori and a new Korok warrior so 7 sages Gerudo, Rito, Zora, Goron, Shiekah, Hylian and Kokori/Korok plus Link and Zelda meaning 9 people with a secret stone a piece of the Tri-Force but since Link fell into the hole Gannondorf has it Sorry for it being so long and the last part being more fan faction like but the main point is it feels disconnected from what was shown in trailers and the past games
3:31 ok I haven’t watched the whole video yet but as of right now I honestly don’t understand what you mean “ didn’t create a narrative that aloud them to do that” because they did … link raru and sounia rewound Zelda I always thought that was obvious( ok I get it now you did explain)
I would’ve preferred to travel with Zelda in the past and experiance the journey with her. No memories, just an adventure where both Link and Zelda are playable characters. I would prefer had she stayed a dragon, and we as the player truly feel the impact even more because we experienced this tragic event with her.
It really is bad storytelling. A bunch of people have complained about this Zonai Ex Machina before, and long with the Deus Egg Machina in Age of Calamity. I actually did a chat with my buddy Oni Black Mage about this very topic about a month after the game came out. Our conclusions were very similar to yours, there should be a bad ending where she is stuck, and a good ending where you jump through extra steps. I really like your idea of extracting something from the Demon Dragon or its Secret Stone to fix Zelda. I was also disappointed like you, that Impa's research line is completely wasted. In some of my videos, I played with the idea that the three other dragons were Zonai who separated their souls from their bodies through the power of Spirit. I think something could have been done here like that if Mineru actually did anything besides stand around in a room and refuse to have conversations with you. Good video Draken, good criticism here.
Thanks! ^^ And yeah, Mineru being passive was also a tad annoying to me, especially when things like Ancient Tablets quest exist. Like, gee, wouldn't it be nice to have someone who knows the Ancient Hyrulean around, right, Mineru?
That would make them unable to continue the timeline past that point though, as there couldn’t be any more Hylia descendants.(not disagreeing, just saying it’s unlikely they would choose to do something like that)
>protagonist is a sword fighter with a legendary weapon >You go around recruiting characters into a mini army >All characters in this army can level up gaining bonuses >They also have personal skills >Split between anima(elemental), light and dark(gloom) magic >3 types of melee weaponry, swords,lances and heavy weapons/axes >BBEG is a powerfull dark magic user >Final bossfight against a demonic dragon >Light/divine dragon is a late game recruit that comes with the main character's legendary weapon TOTK is clearly a FE game XD
1. My favorite type of Magic System is one with many rules, but just as many exceptions & new rules constantly being discovered, like actual science. ex.: Gravity Hill, Mount Aragats, Armenia 2. Not all Deus Ex Machinas are bad! Just like in real life, good & bad things can happen at random, like a hero, or villain, getting killed by a freak meteor shower or chocking on a snack.
I simplified and generalized my explanations for the sake of the video, didn't mean to say Deus Ex Machina is always bad! Just that it is too often used in a way that makes the story worse instead of better. And yeah, the hard systems with an evolving understanding are great! The example I gave is like that, too. It only has one major rule, early on introduces an exception to it and then later the understanding of the rule changes in a way that both makes that exception fall in line and make much more sense and also recontextualizes the inciting incident. Rules are never changing but the audience's understanding does. Great stuff!
@@insanemakaioshin yes if you can look back and see that the new exceptions and rules have always applied but you just didn't know them yet. If you can't (because new rules have nothing to do with previous examples of magic, for instance) then the system is skewing towards a mixture of hard and soft.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 my brother in bear, this isn't even related to Zelda staying or not staying a dragon. Are you really so upset by people having a different opinion that you are going to post this in every single comment thread under this video? Even unrelated ones?
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I'm not trying to silence you but I am also being barraged with your comments, all of which say the same thing, and most of them are @ me. I already talked to you about this in your own large comment thread, so I don't see why you need to scream this message out to me through every avenue. Not to mention that most of these comments you're replying to are months old, so you're pinging people who don't even remember the context of the conversation.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I love her too, she is by far my favourite Zelda! And I do get being overly passionate about a character, lol. It's just good to be mindful of other people while expressing that passion, ya know :) You're good. Hope you have a great day ;)
I kind of procrastinated on watching this (started watching, did something else, and then forgot to watch it) but anyways... Zelda's personality at the end of btow and, well, the entirety of total has changed, even if slightly. I don't exactly know how to explain it but, comparing how she acts while sealing the calamity 100 years ago at after dark beast ganon, along with how she acts during the final "secret" ending of btow to how she acts, just in general in totk just makes me feel like something is off.
Personally, I don't think so. She's always been a huge nerd but back in BotW she wasn't really allowed to be herself because of Rhoam's parenting. He's no longer there in TotK, so the nerd is unleashed.
The way i see the 'breaking of the rules' regarding building up the irreversibility of becoming a dragon, is simply just they didn't know there was a way to reverse it until it came to it in this unique situation with these specific characters. I would like to mention that I myself would have preferred for to have went down differently too, I think Zelda being stuck as a dragon would have actually been really cool and set up some interesting lore for the future, even if we are moving away from the wilds era. oh well, still found it really cool! Nice video, really enjoyed it and your fix idea! Top work Draken 👏
Thank you! :D And limited character knowledge is a valid way of approaching a magic rule but even with this assumption, I don't think it was done well. Them showing up at the end straight from the spirit realm to try this was still very out of nowhere. I'd have a much easier time accepting this if there was even just a tiny bit of foreshadowing for that but unfortunately, there was not.
Honestly, I would have loved an emotional, dramatic, and tragic ending, where Zelda either stays a dragon, or Dragon Zelda sacrifices herself to land the killing blow and there's an emotional goodbye, perhaps even seeing Zelda's ghost alongside Sonia and Rauru. Would have been a very captivating, somewhat tragic end to the story.
I would have, too! But with the suggestion I wanted to preserve the circularity of the story, since that was a very intentional narrative choice. (And also why I suggested having something be lost regardless.)
wish Zelda had some semblance character arc like she did in BoTW. She's a very static character in this story, and its odd that the series went from my favorite Princess Zelda story to my least favorite. Nice edit to the original story tho, I love any excuse for another dungeon
You can never go wrong with an additional dragon. And yeah, it is unfortunate they made her a static character this time. I still like her a lot but yeah, there was so much that could have been done with this plot and just wasn't in favour of tea parties.
That's why I think BOTW's story hard carried for TOTK when it came to the dragon scene. Zelda is barely a character in TOTK's memories and the scene wouldn't have had remotely the same emotional impact if BOTW's characterization of her never happened. Basically the moment she goes back in time, Zelda stops being BOTW style nerdy-somewhat-insecure Zelda and becomes so static and borderline emotionless at times. There's just something about the writing in TOTK that feels off compared to BOTW.
@@redbaronflyer8392 yep, very true. TotK did still try very hard to make her likable through npcs and things she's done around in Hyrule after BotW but knowing her from BotW is definitely the major factor.
@@redbaronflyer8392 I always thought it'd be interesting if she had some sort of argument with Link right before she fell, and then she can't stop thinking about how that was their last interaction before they got separated.
This game saved my life, I wanted to go after finishing it, but it disappointed me so much that I decided to wait for other games, I didn't even finish it. The story had a lot of missed potential :(, even OoT had a better narrative and it came out in 1997 (it was a linear game though). I just want a simple, but good story, kinda like Super Mario Galaxy or BotW at least. It's okay if they want to focus on the gameplay, but that's not an excuse to give us this 😭😭.
Except for the fact that they didn’t know that 2 dead people channeling their power through a swordsman with the arm of the sage of light could reverse draconifification because idk they didn’t experience the event.(probably mentioned in the video but I have other stuff to watch) I personally don’t see any problems with the ending Edit: also I wouldn’t say the story was RUINED
My UA-cam was dry of good uploads so I came back and watched the vid. I planned on doing that later but here we go. So you did mention the fact that they didn’t know that dead people could reverse draconification in some way. I get that it feels like the buildup was for nothing. Also I would feel that if Zelda wasn’t saved despite everything you did a lot of players would be unsatisfied
I agree 100%. I wouldn’t even mind if Zelda stayed as a dragon, it would be a kind of bitter sweet ending. After all, link’s main quest was to find Zelda and not save her. This also ties with his other quests like *finding all her memories*. Otherwise, I’m on board with your alternate ending because it makes sense and gives link a greater purpose. ❤
Imo, its fine. Something ive noticed is that, totk and botw are the same era of hero and the same legend, just told by two equally unreliable narrators. Once you break the games into pin points, they are the same. Link wakes up in an area full with remnants of a magical tech based extinct race. Links main utility wheel is gifted by said race. THEN, HE LEAVES SAID AREA TO MEET WITH PURAH AND IMPA GETTING SENT ON A QUEST TO HELP THE 4 CHAMPIONS OF EACH RACE, in the end fighting ganon with zeldas help. Now, that sounds like a normal zelda game. But, you can explain botw and totk the EXACT same way with no difference except for saying zonai or sheikah. My theory is that they are both the same story, just told by a sheikah/zonai as some bedtime story. I like this theory since it explains the lack of divine beasts.
Well, I think that fight wasn't intended to be hard, just *cool*- you already beat Ganondorf in his... humanoid form, which was *incredibly* hard, so this fight in the sky was moreso meant to up the "cool factor", if that makes sense.
actual flaws bloated dlc temples and bosses should have been in the first game asspull everything crafting is cool but i have no creative ideas your gear is stolen and hidden your map is reset everything is reset the dragon final battle is cheesy the giant boss was already a joke too much underground too much of the same puzzles and cutscenes breakable weapons, rain and stamina
I personally loved totk's story but also found the ending to be a bit mediocre and cheap. At the very least they could've had it so that Zelda forgot literally everything when she did turn back to normal. Regardless, this sounds like a way better ending to totk than the one we got.
Yeah, I would be far less upset about this situation if there was still a consequence to Zelda draconifying herself. Forgetting everything, like you said, or having her personality altered, or her just having gone mad due to being conscious the entire time she was a dragon and witnessing all the war and suffering happening beneath. Though I guess that last one would be difficult to convey in a short ending cutscene.
The old good, new bad crowd is crazy lol. These are the same people who will say Zelda randomly coming back at the end of TP was peak fiction but say its bad when new game does it too. What even is this dribble I'm listening too?
@@chooongusbug724 …I. Did not even say ANYTHING about BOTW. Also, that’s your opinion- others may think otherwise. With all the kindness I can muster (/gen), please, *you* go get help for yourself, or step off the internet for a bit- both work.
Personally I wish she stayed a dragon, even in a true ending. Something about Zelda, this iconic character, losing herself like that is so sick to me. It makes me think of Link having to define himself outside of the Zelda Link Ganondorf context since two thirds of the equation are no longer
Functionally, Zelda can't stay a dragon since the entire franchise is based on the cyclical nature of these characters' rebirth from era to era. To the point that they can't even claim an ending where Zelda possibly stays draconified as that would drastically effect any future timeline. So the writer's cornering themselves is even worse than you realize; TOTK could have *only ever* ended one of two ways, either Zelda is turned back into a Hylian, or Zelda would have had to have died similar to Dragondorf.
Tbh, I don't think so. There is a myriad of ways they can still have new games and the bad ending. There's tens of thousands of years worth of history between Rauru and present day, for one, and who knows how many before that. They could set the new game in that period. Or consider her dead and do the same thing they've done for Rauru and Sonia and just have an assumed child from the royal bloodline never shown on screen. Or have yet another timeline split based on the ending and only make new games assuming the true ending happened.
Yep, TotK deletes every other continuity with the whole "First King of Hyrule" thing, as well as BotW because it retcons the 10,000 year calamity cycle out of existence.
@@DrakenwildI mean in a Period of time of at least 50000 years, the royal family must have had at Somepoint more than just one child. if Hyrule works like a medieval Kingdom, they most Likely marryed on of there children into another Kingdom as means of diplomacy. Thanks to Yona (Sidons wife) we know there must exist more civilization beyond hyrule.
1. Not really. In Wind Waker is made very clear in the game that that Link has nothing to do with the Hero of Legend.
2. There are many series with multi-endings that take just one as the "canon" real ending. And the other are just "optional timelines"
3. TLoZ already has a point in the timeline where it breaks in branches because of the multiple possibilities from Ocarina of Time.
4. Nintendo doesn't follow a rigid timeline in any Zelda game. They pretty much do whatever they want and vaguely connect the stories as they see fit. They could have made an ending where both Zelda and Link turn into dragons and then make the next game as if nothing ever happened, just to leave some ancient engravings about the ancient dragon of light somewhere.
I like the tweak you made to the story!
I have an idea on another change that gives a possible expansion on the mystery artifact for reversing Dragonification, and I thought it was where they would go after BoTW too.
Instead of having Zelda have both time and light, only give her light powers. You can even have it be a misdirection early on before Sonia or Rauru figures out the reason she cant send herself forwards isn't for lack of practice. So who sent Zelda back? Link did in a moment of panic. He's the one who had the time powers. This explains flurry rush in BoTW and makes all of the memory events hit harder because they are your fault, not Zelda's. Moving forwards, using Recall over the course of the game helps train this ability, and the mystery artifact/dungeon is all about manipulating time to further master it. (Maybe the artifact upgrades Recall to be able to either reverse an objects path OR it's state, such as un-burning a plank or un-damaging weapons). This sets up both the ending and a better sense of succeeding where they once failed, but link cant just reverse 10k years of existence.
That's where @aikenlau2500 's tweak comes in too, having link be able to steal dragondorf's stone to finally have enough power to un-dragon Zelda. This does introduce the problem of why not just borrow Sidon or Tulin's stone for example, but you could also help explain that by having a stone attune to someone when they first get it, making it useless for anyone else, and you can only claim it by killing the person who has it. This also helps explain why ganon had to kill Sonia and not just rob her blind to get the stone, if he had just taken it it would have been useless. The player knows they are going to stab the dehydrated man eventually, so this helps give further incentive to go take him out without spoiling dragondorf (or hell, making it seem even more desperate/dramatic by making it look like your only shot to get zelda back just got eaten).
I like this idea! That'd be a very cool direction to take the story in ^^
THIS IS LITERALLY SO SMART WFFF 💔💔💔💔💔
Maybe the Secret Stone could be embedded in the Master Sword having been placed there by Hylia all those years ago before skyward sword. Maybe that iteration of Hylia, the original had time powers and that's how she made the gates of time. And how the Master Sword has had the power to send Link back in time. As for why Hylia would have time powers and not light? Maybe its a give and take between the hero. So one iteration of Zelda has Time powers and that link has light while the next have the opposite.
Tiny nitpick about your story- I feel like the game straight up telling you that turning Zelda back requires a dying dragon might spoil Ganondorf turning into a dragon at the end since I didn't think many people expected that to happen. Maybe instead Link could somehow reclaim Ganondorf's secret stone after defeating Ganondragon, and, being on Zeldragon, use her time powers to transform the dark power stone into a time stone, thus empowering his recall skill and changing her back? It would be kinda cool for both of Zelda's powers to be featured for opposing effects- the Light stone she swallowed changed her into a dragon, and the Time stone she made with Link after Ganondragon's defeat changed her back from a dragon.
Spoilers
When I was playing Tears of the Kingdom
I thought it was gonna end with Link either l learning of the legend of the Triforce or promising to find a way to change Zelda back and the next game would center around the hunt for the Triforce to wish Zelda back to normal, I was a bit weirded out with how easily and abruptly Zelda got turned back to normal after how much they built up the permanence of the Dragon transformation.
Exactly. I love the final catch, it's a great scene, but I don't think it's worth the cost of having Zelda be turned back in such a way.
Honestly, the Triforce is the easy, and explainable solution.
We already know the Triforce can do...basically anything, including restoring an alternate universe version of itself! So reverting Draconification? Should be easy
@@duskgaming18yep! But unfortunately, they really did not want to use it here, for whatever reason.
They really missed a trick here. It's really not an insurmountable narrative problem. For example, after the point in the game where you see the big reveal with Zelda choosing to eat the secret stone, they could have easily written in Mineru obsessing over what happened and dedicating herself to finding a way to fix it, especially since Rauru and Sonia were dead and Zelda was the only one left alive that Mineru could still help. She had enough time that she could have taken literal millenia to find a solution, so it's plausible enough that she could eventually find one, and they could have added some really cool game content and story centered around Mineru, what being the sage of spirits actually means, etc. And you could set it up so Link has to track down the information after he realizes what happened to Zelda, culminating in the temple quest in which you get Mineru's help. And then you have to still go and do whatever the actual solution is. Then you would still get the emotional impact of her sacrifice and feel like the ending where she is saved is deserved.
Exactly. There are so many ways to solve this narrative problem but of all the options they chose Deus Ex Machina. Wonder if there were some internal reasons for that.
I love your suggestion for the ending. I've always thought the game should have done SOMETHING with the Impa side-plot. Another thing I thought the ending robbed was the whole idea of Link losing his arm, only for him to get it back.
Yeah, that was a very weird decision, too. I'd be unlike Nintendo to have him start bleeding out from an open wound in the ending to the game but at the very least have him keep Rauru's arm. If they want to signify loss of access to Zonai powers, it's enough if the bracelets fell of or something.
@@Drakenwild Maybe Link only gets his arm back if you've collected every Light of Blessing, so all the darkness has been purged from his body. Otherwise, you get the same ending but Link's arm is black and shriveled, and maybe only barely usable.
I agree, I do think the Zelda catch parallels were amazing. I was disappointed Zelda was recovered. It felt so cheep. I like your true ending idea as well. I felt like another sacrifice to bring her back would be cool. Like if link needed to become a dragon to take on her burden or something. People think outcomes that are sad or not "everyone lives" are bad. but I like sad emotional endings. It drives the point of what it costs to save the world.
Exactly. I understand the desire for a happy ending but this story has been set up to be a tragedy only for the writers to chicken out at the last second and retreat. The least they could do is set up the resolution but either way I think either Zelda should still suffer some form of a consequence or, like you've suggested, have Link take her place instead. You lose the catch that way but it's not worth it to sacrifice the entire story just for a nice final scene.
Building on that you could make it so that Link has to recall zelda but in the process he loses his zoni arm because of the amount of power coursing through it and if you haven't gotten all of the light of blessings then his arm will be shriveled but if you do get all of them then the true ending happens were link loses his zoni powers but still has a working arm (his normal arm). This works more with the ending that is in the game instead of changing everything they did, and seems like if Nintendo were to really change the story it would have to be something like this (though they probably will never even think about doing any of the sort)
A thing I realized while watching the video is that because Zelda had the Master Sword in her forehead for thousands of years would mean that there were two master swords and two Zeldas during both Calamites. I loved Tears and also enjoyed the story over all but this is one of the reasons why I really don't like time traveling in stories.
Yes, that is 100% what's going on. Time travel is weird and really difficult to handle in stories, it's soooo easy to mess up and just create unnecessary confusion.
Yup, but it does actually work, since she'd be basically sealed above the 'cloud barrier' which only came down when Gannon(sp) reawakened and broke it.
I think the setup and parallel reasoning is there for a "Super-Duper Recall" but the execution was kinda too vague. Like Sonia and Zelda both boosted Rauru's abilities, so it stands to reason that they can do the same for Link's Recall.
The force ghosts lingering around is examplified in BotW with the Champions and Rhoam. The Champions still have abilities of sorts since they are able to transfer their powers to Link.
Nothing here is completely unfounded, though execution could've been elaborated on for sure, ESPECIALLY in mandatory quests. Linearity is a necessity to a certain degree for a good story.
Some people said it already, but a single DLC to make this ending happen as you said would have been fantastic.
Or anything in similar vein, yep.
How to turn Zelda back:
If you collect all the memories, Link will stand on the dragon's snout and look mournful at her. Zelda will respond and rewind her own time, turning her human again. This is possible because as a dragon, her rewind power is extraordinarily powerful.
Edit: I wrote this before finishing the video. I like yours better because it requires more than a fetch quest.
I do think It has sense since Zelda brings her time powers to the hand of rauru that link uses... thats why with some power boost from Sonnia and rauru link can get her back
According to mineru in the post credit scene, Rauru and sonia must have channeled their powers of light and time through link to achieve the reversion of draconification, so in order to understand and analize her statement we need to understand 3 things.
1-What the power of time does
2- what the power of light does
3- what are the properties of draconification
1.To learn about the power of time we really only have to look at memory 8
Recall as an ability, requires the user to draw out an objects memory and return it back to its original point, this in turn sort of brings into play that in order to use recall one mist know the current state of an object and have a rough knowledge of memory of their past point and what lead it to the present.
Its interesting to not that zelda used recall on multiple objects at once during the fight against ganondorf and over this power is also what allowed her to travel to the past, so gameplay limitations aside, recall is much more flexible in lore.
2.The light powers are interesting since while recall might seem like enough to do the job, draconification as process packs a lot of energy, and well, rauru's power of light seems to deal with manipulation of energy even within the body of others.
Ganondorf's words are interesting, "you bind my heart and steal my magic" this is interesting since it shows that rauru is directly draining ganondorf's power of darkness, this is further confirmed in developer interviews
Rauru can remove energy from people and purify it, converting it into light power, while this might seem irrelevant since recall would basically be reverting zelda back, we need to get into point 3
3.3. Why does swallowing a secret stone specifically turns people into dragons?
While there is no given explanation in game about about draconification, the function of the secret stones is explained in
They merely amplify powers inherent to their wielder, it doesn't create nor change their powers and it does not grant more knowledge about them either.
Swallowing the stone traforms the user into a dragon, but this seems like some random quirk that seemingly happens " just because?"
Well, its important to note that in east asian culture dragons symbolize natural forces, they embody aspects of nature and were used to explain many natural disasters and evens like tides, rain, strong winds etc.
The secret stones amplify the power of their user but when they do that, they embody the element that originates the power of their user, so when one consumes their secret stone, they must be consuming their own power and thus embodying their element.
This explains why dragons are seemingly powerful and bursting limitless energy, ganondorfs demon king transformation also seems to think that his power is limitless which is interesting to note.
In conclusion: since mineru states that Rauru and Sonia must be channelling their powers through link and we see that happen.
Plus taking into account that zelda was embodying her element with seemingly limitless energy.
Raurus light powers must have removed the excess energy inside zeldas body and purified it, while sonia reverted her back into her original form.
Plus what would benefit the plot for zelda to remain a dragon?
The entire symbolism of the story revolves around a cycle, link trying to reach for zelda at the start and at the end is the major climax of the set up of the plot.
Zelda dying or being gone for god as a dragon would break the themes established by the story.
The sacrifice zelda made isnt even poetrayed as tragic, its a way to show that she has full trust on link and is resolved to tap into something as unknown as draconification just so she can help her knight who also sacrificed himself and slept for 100 years just to help her.
Zeldas sacrifice is the same as links sacrifice in botw and is also part of the symbolism of the cycle and ultimately, both sacrifices in the past lead to a happy ending in the future where both end happy.
While your explanation may be valid, it still doesn't change the fact that Rauru's and Sonia's intervention comes completely at random at the end there, doesn't tie into anything that happened in the gameplay and the explanations we have for it (including your own) are largely in the realm of fan theories and not things that are actually established by the story.
Having Zelda remain as a dragon doesn't serve the story, which is why it shouldn't be the only ending. If you want to have her always turn back then imho all the legwork to set it up should be done as mandatory quests.
I also disagree with it not being portrayed as tragic, her changing into a dragon is preceeded by Mineru freaking out about it, Zelda is shown to clearly be in pain during the transformation, screaming for Link to protect everyone as she believes she will effectively die and cries while flying away, as Sages look on under a stormy sky. After Link finds that out, he's visibly shaken as well. This is not an emotionally neutral scene.
@@Drakenwild its ok to call it a fan theory, but to say its not established by the story is a disingenuous stament.
UA-cam hates links, but this is a copy paste of bigger post I made, I linked the quotes and videos of the characters saying everything I am explaining.
Its literally just information you find in the memories themselves, I just linked to the fact that mineru theorizes that rauru and sonia mist have channeled their powers through link which if mineru's theory is correct then the information about the powers of rauru and sonia perfectly checks out.
I also dont think zelda turning back undermines anything, she still had full intention to tap into a completely unknown power just so she could help link, its a full demonstration of her resolved and courage.
It even ties back to link being "dead" for 100 years for zelda and now zelda was "dead" for 10.000+ years for link, it compliments and cycles back to botw.
Plus zelda remaining as a dragon would break the established symbolism of link failing to grab zelda at the start of the game and it would also be basically the end of the bloodline of the goddess leaving hyrule and the cycle of the demon, the hero and princess in a broken state as there would be no future princesses.
Zelda coming back doesn't break any rules established by the story so I dont see a problem with it.
@@dreamer1292Right, like, the game *literally* establishes, in order, that:
- Zelda's recall is op
- Rauru's magical bracelet can channel others magic and use it forever
- energy is transferable (and in hindsight: Rauru can steal and manipulate energy)
- recall works by bringing something back to where it started, based on someone's memory
- the draconification passage isn't exactly accurate (immortal dragon my ass)
Add that to the fact east asia wouldn't need an explanation for what a dragon is because it's intrinsic to their culture so they *know* the dragon is the purest form of someone's power and the ending makes sense
The pacing problem could be fixed by Rauru being a companion, I'll die on this hill. Have him mention that maybe if he steals Zelda's energy he can power up Zelda's recall present on Link, but it would need someone who's watched over Zelda this whole time to add to Link's memory from before the fall. Have Impa point the obvious as part of her research (the points you just made) and add Sonia to the story for the love of god, a quest to find her because she's the one watching over Zelda and her knowledge of recall is needed. Maybe unlocked after the memories quest line is finished
I remember feeling so dissatisfied after I saw the game's canon ending, so I appreciate this video, and I like the potential ending you came up with. The story as a whole felt a little lacking to me, it was the same as BotW with clearing four big dungeons to help you fight the boss. Plus one, because they tried a little bit. Having something like that be another part of the story, but one you only find if you really played the game, would have added a lot of fun to it for me.
The problem is that, again, nobody said zelda could not come back.
At some point, early on, someone spread a fake quote about "draconification" and that was that.
The only problem with the end is that its vague how it was achieved, and really the only explaination needed was something like the ballad of the goddess playing right before the dive, to show that the triforce was still with her, link had attained it, and was making his wish. Putting in rauru and sonia messes this up and thus makes it harder to comprehend.
In memory 16 Mineru says "You... won't be able to change back".
@@Drakenwild yeah hate to get semantic but she said "you"
Its not once even implied Zelda changed herself back and its not once even implied that zelda could not be turned back, it is only ever established that:
1. You will not retain yourself
2. You cant change your mind
Not even considering that they could have failed to understand how it works, and going purely off what is said - the rules are clear - you will become a mindless wanderer in exchange for immortality.
It is then reasonable to assume that actions could be taken to restore you, just as link's arm was able to be restored.
Should it have been better explained? Sure, is it a plothole? No.
I think the both of you have a point here: While it's true that it was never *explicitly* said that draconification was irreversible, it was *heavily* implied with nothing else saying otherwise.
wow thats actually such a good story retcon. i wish soo much that nintendo would add DLC to retcon the current ending into what you suggested. Love the videos Keep it up
Thank you, I appreciate it! ^^
I think the game could've did something like this: since mineru posses the ability to separate one's soul from the body, perhaps she could do the same with zelda, telling you to take her secret stone to the light dragon where she could perform her powers and extract out zelda's soul. Afterwards, she'll tell you that because of the draconification and countless years spent dormant in the skies of hyrule, zelda's essence was incredibly weak and cannot return to human form in any normal means. The only way that might bring zelda back to life is something called "the ancient goddess's aspect", located at the very bottom if hyrule castle where the zonai once practiced divine rituals for the goddess Hylia. Link must defeat ganondorf, who guards the artifact, knowing it's importance in order to retrieve this artifact and use it to restore zelda's human state. This also gives mineru more involvement in the lore since all she did in totk was give you a mech you never use and some piece of ancient lore which most people who completed dragon's tears should already know.
Also a valid solution. I went with Impa route cause it was already in the game and you can still involve Mineru in such a scenario by having her explain why the artifact can't work right now. Mineru was very underused.
I think it would’ve been really nice if there was one final quest _after_ defeating Dragon Ganon where Link does… something… to de-draconify Zelda… or maybe like we have to take Zelda’s Secret Stone away to finish off Ganon, turning Zelda back into a human, but in a coma, and we have to find some way to revive her in the final scene of the game 🤷🏻♂️
I really don’t doubt TOK has a good ending but the pacing for me is unforgivable because first it’s not even linear and not taken place in current time by the player until the end. And the four repeated cutscenes after each dungeon was so terrible for the story I’m surprised they did that. Voice acting is still a bit off to me and feels very dubed best way I can describe is a dubed English anime it feels just like that. For those 3 reasons I personally think it’s extremely poor in its story as a whole.
It has quite a bit of faults, yes, but personally, the Rauru thing in the ending there was the biggest narrative gripe for me. The four repeating cutscenes were annoying, too, but bearable. They felt like just the kind of a dumb, wierd thing that Nintendo would do.
I disagree with the initial premise that the sacrifice was rendered meaningless. The draconification was presented as irreversible in 99% of circumstances, but Link as the Hero of Time combined with the special circumstances of defeating Ganondorf and his relationship with Rauru paved the way for that rare 1% circumstance that Zelda’s draconification could be reversed. Zelda did not expect that to be a possibility nor did any of her fellow Zonai, so when she made the choice to make that sacrifice, from her understanding at that point in time, it was permanent, and up to the ending, the player has the appropriate emotion that she was lost. I thought the ending was great, because I’m a little more open-minded when it comes to these magic systems and worlds these writers create, and try to use my imagination to explore and explain why they made certain story decisions.
Agree to disagree. Maybe if Rauru was present throughout the whole game as a companion you can talk to I'd feel different but as is, I don't even get the feeling that Link had much relationship with him to begin with. He just randomly comes back.
@@Drakenwild Isn’t Rauru’s form present in every shrine bestowing Link a Light of Blessing throughout the game? I’d argue that Rauru’s support is seen almost every step of the way from the aspect of the shrines helping him cure the corruption received from that first assault from Ganondorf.
@@stoicchampion Yes...and no. We do see statues of him and Sonia in every shrine, but it's not truly him, just an image of him- not to mention, we don't even know if it was him who built all of the shrines, or he just oversaw the building of them and the other Zonai were the ones lending the Light Blessings, a la the monks from BOTW. It feels *really* empty. Not to mention...
A) This version of Link was the Hero of the WILDS, not the Hero of Time- the Recall ability was explicitly stated to simply be a watered down version of Zelda's power passed down to him.
B) While draconification was never stated to be explicit, there was such a HUGE emphasis on it that it feels like such an ass pull when it was reverted in the ending- it comes off as the writers writing themselves into a corner, and had a clumsy compromise in order to include those scenes.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy the ending- in fact, I think they're pretty okay. However, as Drakenwild said, agree to disagree- others, including me, feel that it wasn't enough to justify the reversal.
the best part about TOTK is that the devs heard specifically me say "man I wish I could fight one of those" while looking at Dinraal in BOTW and were like "yeeeaaaah sure".
Turning zelda back as a post game sequence would have been waaaay better, great suggestion!
I've never had a problem with the ending of TotK, but I really liked your idea of the Impa quest! That would have for sure made the anticipation a lot more existent. Though for me, I remember vividly the moment that Zelda turned into a dragon, and all I could think of was ways that it could be reversed. And in my mind, I always felt that it must have something to do with Link and the recall ability that was introduced in the beginning of the game (seeing as Zelda herself gave it to Link, it just felt so fitting that she essentially would help herself in the future without her knowing it). So that in itself already gave me some anticipation I guess.
Slightly off topic (?): I know it's a no-brainer, but I've completely given up on writing terminology and storytelling theory as a checklist to measure how "good" a story is. The moment I found out there are people out there who didn't like the movie Parasite, I was so bummed out since it's so insanely well made and uses all the tricks from every book on film theory, story writing etc. So in theory, it would have been an "objectively perfect movie". Turns out though, art is subjective, and theory is more of a suggestion rather than a blueprint.
I loved the story of TotK. Probably my favorite of all time in the Zelda series. And yes, in a game full of monsters and magic, it never felt cheap to me that Zelda's dragonification was reversed. It's literally magic and I have no clue how it works, it just does I guess. I don't think that Tears of the Kingdom has any "problems with its writing", and I don't believe any piece of writing has "problems".
Just felt like getting that off my chest. It just so happened to be in your comment section hahah. Keep up the grind!
I mean, I only made this video because the ending did feel cheap to me and many other people, looking at the comment section. I didn't come to that conclusion because I'm some fancy pants writing theory art critic, it was just a subjective feeling after experiencing it. I think this story is really good on paper but at places it lacks in execution. The ending was the thing that broke the suspension of disbelief and laid bare other issues that I have.
The inclusion of the writing theory in this wasn't to pose as an authority or create a checklist, I just figured it would be interesting to break down why this ending doesn't work for so many people. Plus, writing rules are meant to be broken anyway, it's just a matter of doing it skilfully, ya know?
Anyway, more power to ya for loving this story! Hope you have a nice day ^^
I have literally finished TotK earlier today, I found the ending amazing, though I can't deny that I did heavily question Zelda just being turned back into a human despite everything we've been told; that scene felt rather awkward, to be completely honest, but it did not detract from my enjoyment of the game and did only slightly for the story. What I question more though is- given that Zelda in the Light Dragon form has existed since the founding of Hyrule and so did the restored Master Sword, does that mean that for several millenia there've been two Master Swords, and- for the past couple of centuries- technically two Zeldas as well? I know, very minor thing, but- the Master Sword has always been pictured as this mythical weapon and now there are suddenly two of them which slightly lessens its uniqueness in my opionon, even if it is technically the same one.
Yes, that is exactly what that means. Though I didn't find that too problematic, personally, that's just types of things you get when you venture into the time travel land. And the ending is amazing! Just wish we got there differently ^^'
@@Drakenwild I agree- I mean, I expected Zelda to be turned back into her human self from the moment I learned that she's the Light Dragon, but given how well-written the rest of the game was (at least I think so) the way it was executed just felt... rushed a bit. It was worth it for the callback to the start of the game, but I think that that scene in the ending where Sonia and Rauru turn Zelda back into a human was the only point when I questioned the story of this game.
@@tomaszwojciula I have a handful of other criticisms but that issue with the ending I talked about in the video is the most severe imo. The other things aren't interrupting the experience, or at least they didn't for me.
Another idea: DLC perhaps. Impa learns that you need all the powers combined (or maybe introduce the triforce here). But that Zelda’s dragon presence is holding Ganondorf at bey or something. Then you go around and convince the sages to try when the time is right. And the true ending sees all the sages together on the temple of time like presently, and together they turn Zelda back. Perhaps Minuru has to sacrifice herself (as the sage of spirit).
Yea the game was missing a lost zonai city i like that
It 100% was. I guess it's partly my fault for getting hyped up about things that weren't shown but with all the sky stuff being shown off in the trailers, I expected a city in the sky (a bit like Academy town in Heroes 5). Great Sky Island was the closest approximation of that but being ruined and abandoned it was really underwhelming.
Impa giving Link a quest to unlock the true ending after finding all memories left by Zelda sounds familiar
I know. Hardly a revolutionary concept. Maybe they wanted to do something like that but scrapped it, which is why this plot thread is now left hanging?
I guess the way one can even remotely begin to explain it canonically how it happened is with some form of anything, Sonias been dead for 20k+ years, shes been able to mingle with the ancestral zonai spirits of the past in heaven or w/e spirits go afterwards. So she may have had time to tell Rauru afterwards of him passing on to the other realm and joining her, telling him "Oh yeah we can do this lets fix Zelda up after they defeat Crenando".
While not relevant to the video. In terms of story elements they did badly / didn't explain at all what so ever that really gets me? The one thing I'm also really nettled about TOTK is how they got Crunkdorf down into the depths when they couldn't even lay a single FINGER on the guy. You cannot tell me they were able to force him down there when they're basically all on deaths door. I want to know HOW they did this. This is one of the biggest plot holes they have yet to cover and it infuriates me to no end.
You could try to explain it that way but that's just a case of using a fan theory to cover up bad writing, you know? Since we don't actually know how Zelda afterlife works.
As for pushing Ganondorf in the Depths, my running assumption based on environmental storytelling was that they either caught up to him or were defending in one of the old Zonai fortresses, since foundation of Hyrule looks to be much older than the Temple of Time. Still, it would have been preferred if they actually shown us what was happening outside of key moments, because as is it kinda feels we got cliff notes version of the story.
@@Drakenwild I understand that but its one of the most logical reasonings to. Sonia did have a very long time to spend in the after life whatever it works like. Where spirits seem to be able to come back to the world of the living and impart knowledge and do things they wish. A la OOT Link coming to the living world to give TP Link some training. King Rhoam is able to stay there for ages, help Link once he reawakens, then disappears then at the end of the game comes back to see them from afar basically saying "yeah they're gonna be all right." :) So clearly there is some precedent spirits are able to return and enact upon the mortal world if they wish to and come back whenever they wish after they supposedly "pass on".
And the thing about Ganon is thathe's in the center of the room with them blocking the escape of the room, thats one thing that doesn't make any sense. You don't put him in the more vulnerable position while you have every chance to run away and escape then after the fact. I just wish Nintendo gave us more cutscenes or something. They had so many chances to fill in the gaps of important story moments. Could've had the battle that lead to all of this in the end and see how it happened. Maybe a Hyrule Warriors esque game will cover it? Who knows. Age of Calamity did more to give us insights of the worlds structure and some inbetween lore of how things could have gone than BOTW ever did really. And thats saying a lot IMHO.
Totally agree. I also think the story we got completely breaks my immersion as a gamer. We didn’t need to do anything to bring Zelda back, no Triforce was used, it just kinda happens 4 no reason.
Yup, my point exactly. It was baffling to me when it happened.
I agree that they botched the assignment somewhere, and the ending sucked because of it. The problem is, the central pillar of the assignment is "Link saves Zelda". Hard stop. From a Watsonian perspective, she is the only surviving descendent of the Goddess, and we need to keep the bloodline going. From a Doylist perspective, not saving her is a solid end of the entire franchise, and the Shareholders would riot. The problem is that they didn't do enough setup and the ending they gave us feels like an ass-pull. Maybe they intended the Memory with the big laser attack to hint at how much more powerful three Secret Stone users pooling their power is than three working alone, but I am only making *THAT* connection as I'm writing this.
...ok, I am going to watch your video now. 🙃
The thing is that they are really not obligated to follow up the "Zelda stays a dragon" ending with never making another Zelda game again. They can make the games that are set earlier chronologically, they can make games that are clearly disconnected from totk and not worry about it, they can make games that follow up the true ending where Zelda is turned back and not the bad end or they could have made a dlc to address that if doing that in the main game was too much. There's so many ways to have more Zelda games and not botch the ending that it's really not an excuse.
@@Drakenwild I mentioned that I hadn't finished your video when writing it. Now I have. I think I have found a happy medium between your idea and what I *THINK* was the original intent. First, at the end of the Molduga Cookout scene, make more emphasis on pooling Secret Stone power being multiplicative rather than additive. Next, we split up the endings. Bad end: Stuck as Light Dragon. Good end: Having all 5 Sages. True end: The above, all the memories, plus taking out Fake Zelda and Master Koga. We only care about "Good End": Force Ghosts empower Link. Dragondorf's Stone reforms and bonds with Link. Cut to the Sages climbing out of the Castle Hole, stopping to see their Stones glow. Link, now further empowered, channels that energy into the Light Dragon as per normal. Now cut to Zelda's sleeping spirit, and have *HER* Stone glow. She is effectively casting Recall on herself, boosted by *EIGHT* other Sages. Ending continues as normal. While not great, all this gives an internal logic for Zelda's return to make sense, while only making minor edits to the existing game.
NOTHING in the story stated that draconification was irreversible, mineru spoke of a tale and the biggest drawbacks told was that you would “lose oneself” and that’s EXACTLY what happened, Zelda lost herself with no control to comeback herself, and the noble sacrifice had its function; to restore the master sword with the necessary time it needed, which was what she planned, she didn’t come back out of “lol random” they used immense power of incredible chosen people to achieve this and the powers used were explained in the story which includes many things like time and repelling.
in terms of the Sanderson laws it still qualifies, there was a miracle not a contradiction. Don’t forget that “miracles” that defies fate also works as good stories too, and the one in totk did that spectacularly.
Memory 16 at 1:40 Mineru says "You... won't be able to change back". It's pretty clear cut to me. At no point was the concept of reverting back if you kept your mind introduced and at no point does Mineru tell Link "look, she can't revert back but maybe there's a chance".
@@Drakenwild she says “I told you” still referring to the tale, and the tale does NOT state she can’t come back, her saying she can’t come back is her worries not a law because she doesn’t know a way to crack this and this also came true; Neither Mineru nor Zelda planned or solved this problem, Zelda really got stuck like that lost for thousands of years, it was link and the other two who did the saving and what they did does not contradict the tale.
At best it's a case of 'unreliable narrator' where a character unknowingly passes along incorrect information. That can be done in hard magic systems, but the the event must be within the rules of the universe. If the game had even slightly hinted at something, say the triforce or any of the other excellent suggestions in these comments, it would have been much better than-ghost wizard ancestors did it
@@Grandwigg the triforce-undoing-bad-thing is kind of overdone, I would rather them save the triforce for something different. This is why I liked the spirits power more because they hinted it in the very same cutscene they explained the immortal tale by also explaining each characters powers, in the end they combined all that to revert Zelda back. I knew they were building something with that explanation and they did, and I know I was not the only one who picked on it too.
@@JunDagekiIt all made sense to me too. It was even foreshadowed in a way when Zelda and Sonia boosted Rauru’s power during the Molduga invasion.
Sonia discussing with Zelda about her time reversal powers also foreshadowed this happening as well.
The time reversal power iirc also takes up the majority of Links gauntlet as it being on the back of his hand rather than fingers.
I can see how people would miss those things though.
The tears could be her mind separating across the region and, by collecting the memories, you put her mind back together
Tears sometimes feels like an unfished game to me at least looking at the story. I too wish that the true ending would have been about turning Zelda back into a human and i realy like the concept of there being a consequence for her actions. Here's my personal concept:
After waking up she would get a completely new personality, she still is Zelda but not the Zelda that you started the adventure with. Just as Mineru said: "To become an imortal dragon is to lose onself."
That is a viable option for a consequence, yep. There's lots that could have been done with it, even though it being a final cutscene was a smidge restrictive.
Oh, so like, she's lost both her memories and parts of her... Hylianity(? You get the gist), and Link has to help her recover what she can, like a reversal of BOTW? I'd also like to propose physical consequences, ex. Stubby horns, has to pick out scales (with not an insignificant amount of blood) at periods of time.
I was thinking a similar thing however this is how I would go about it:
End of the game as you say The Light dragon drops you off and you talk to Impa end credit stuff all goes on then a quest update named ??? Appears leading you to talk to Impa and she reminds us of the oldest of tales Din, Nayru & Farore creating the world & Hylia ruling over it along with the triforce & the cycle of death & rebirth of the Goddess, Hero & Demon King, Blood, Spirit & Will, which we (the current hyruleans) have known as the Calamity & the Artefact known as the triforce was known to grant a wish to the pure of heart, a power such as this could return Zelda to her true form.
And so begins the uncovering of the pieces of the triforce quest, clues will be left in both the Zonai temple of time & the OoT Temple of Time both refering to a third temple in the Lanayru Dessert, though not knowing of a desert of that name you go to the only desert you know, the Gerudo Desert where some old scriptures tell of the goddess of the Sands and such going deeper into the desert than ever through a lost woods like sandstorm finding the Zuna Village, seemingly abandoned however mentions of older games can be found all around perhaps even a mention of a gathering of a Minish, a Oocca & a Zonai , finally finding a piece of lore of a northern Castle that became a monument prophesied to stand long after the end of Calamity & to herald the birth of a new era, which then leads you to a hidden chasm leading to the lowest levels of the Depths and an immaculate Castle (basically the castle of the sleeping Zelda from Adventure of Link) going through it as a dungeon activating three spiritual stonee esque pillars, as you activate the green pillar what sounds like a clap of thunder shudders outside of the dungeon (a sonic boom) the blue activates an earthquake & the Red an explosion, and entering the throne room who is sat lounging on the throne other than...Master Kohga who less erratic than usual removes his mask, as he reveals his head a long mane of ink black hair with Gerudo Red roots one blind eye, one traditionally red sheikah eye he speaks "I've played my part well over these long years as did my father and my fathers father, we knew however well meaning the intent, the IGNORANCE! of Hylian Kings will always delay and damage more than is needed at the beginning of the cycle & that while Gerudo would rather not be considered villainous, that ancient hatred filled parasite, Demise has latched onto their innate power and so my clan positioned themselves in such a way that Demise's incarnations in some way trusted us enough that we could mess up his plans from the inside and ensure the kings of hyrule didn't ultimately fail at their one job, anywho... you've started on a second adventure now, to wake your sleeping princess how fitting, when you leave here you world will not be exactly how you atleast, not this you remembers it, trust in your spirit Link it will recall..." Kogha places his mask back on and disappears in the way yiga do, but the eyes on the seals are the correct way, as you leave the northern Castle and reach the surface what has changed:
.Skyloft & the wind tribe have appeared in the sky.
.the great plateau and the lost woods have switched locations (the lost woods changes to resemble what OoT's lost wood/Kokiri forest would look like if converted into TotK the great plateau mirroring the temple of times location in OoT if brought into TotK.
. (This is when I started to realise I've been typing a while so should probably sum up soon) protruding from death mountain is a tower which looking closely and squinting a truly reborn Volvagia erupts from within through the top (not the corrupted resurrection from OoT or the questionably canon dragon knight of the same name but the original guardian we never meet)
Finally summing up you go to each location and the spirit of the hero grants you glimpses of the previous hero's that lead them to different pieces of the triforce collecting all three after fighting a Hero's Shade of sorts that has the equivalent of their full equipment in end game to fight obviously one would have a puzzle before the hero fight one a battle gauntlet, and one some sort of courage challenge possibly really creepy reinvention of the forest temple from adult links timeline in oot/TP mixed that might work.
.when you finally collect the triforce, returning to where you sent the master sword back in time the light dragon rests and after you make your wish Zelda is returned but as a child perhaps even a baby, the cycle has been warped off track and so this is the triforces attempt at realigning things slightly.
Anyway that's my idea, hope it was a fun read
It's also an interesting idea! Using the Triforce instead of introducing a new artifact makes a lot of sense.
@@Drakenwild I think so, I like to think that it would help it feel more tied to what has been as well as solidifying how far removed this hyrule is compared to how it was
The Wild Era's storytelling has been pretty lackluster overall, in my opinion.
It's been different. I actually liked the story in BotW quite a bit, came into it without expectations and was satisfied with what I got. Here the story was much grander and it had its moments but also quite a few pitfalls, where BotW was consistent across the board.
Tiny nitpick with your story- I think that the game straight up telling you to use the energy of a dying dragon kinda gives away the Dragondorf twist at the end since I don't think many people expected Ganondorf to turn into a dragon for a final fight- maybe instead Link could reclaim the secret stone from the defeated Dragondorf, use Zeldragon's time powers (and the new secret stone) to somehow empower recall, and use that to transform Zelda back? Would be kinda cool for Zelda to get to "use" two secret stones- the one symbolising her light powers turned her into a dragon, and the one symbolising her time powers turned her back into a human
I suppose this does make it hard to tie to completion, alternatively I suppose they could use something like using all the secret stones from all the unlocked sages to empower Recall enough to reverse draconification, thus locking the true ending behind all sages?
Alternatively, you could just be vague with wording. Say that you need a lot of energy to recharge it and maybe have the Sages try to pour their power into it and demonstrate that as not enough. And then when Dragondorf goes out, he releases a whole bunch of energy, judging by that explosion, and then it all clicks into place.
@@Drakenwild oops i replied twice lmfao
Yeah that definitely works- also solves the mystery about where the sages all disappeared off to after Dragondorf forms ig, especially if you dump a line in there that just goes "we are here we escaped the collapsing castle"
(although if I was told i needed a lot of energy my first instinct would just be to try to dump a lifetimes supply of zonai batteries on the dragon reverse item lmao)
Ohhh, a new Drakenwild video, let's goooo
Babe wake up new drakenwild video
Your version would have been so much better. I was really pissed at what we've gotten.
Also, I love the Hello Future Me reference :)
*wizard sax intesifies*
Yeah but my mind the reasons I was able to turn back is because her duty as a dragon was fulfilled meaning that either she dies or she turns back somehow they really did mess up when they had the two ghosts come the whole thing could work if they remove the ghost and just explain it as Zelda's duty as a dragon has been fulfilled but lynx connected to her meaning of she dies something might happen to link
1:51 Smink is the best Naruto character!
(I've found 4/5 but one still eludes me...)
He's my favourite, too!
They probably could've just had Impa say something along the lines of "your recall ability could theatrically change her back, but I'm not sure it is powerful enough." And that would have at least made Rauru and Sonia randomly appearing at the make a bit mor sense.
Unfortunately, zelda game are always made gameplay first story second, and though this means we have some of the best gameplay ever, the story lovers are usually disappointed.
Here's hoping the zelda move will make-up for it.
You can have both, is the thing. You can make the game gameplay first and still write around that gameplay in a way that makes sense. I'm not asking for the game to be written like Red Dead Redemption but man, at least make the ending feel good you guys :c
Even the gameplay itself has something to be desired- don't get me wrong, I *adored* the gameplay in TOTK and BOTW. But the problem with TOTK, in my honest opinion, is that it's usually only great because it recycles so much from BOTW's gameplay. If you look closely, in both gameplay and narrative, TOTK is (HOT TAKE INCOMING) really only a "remix" of BOTW.
Honestly I felt the weight of Zelda’s sacrifice just through what it meant from her perspective. The viewer knowing it was ultimately reversible doesn’t make her any less terrified of what she’s doing, and it doesn’t make the moment itself less tragic from an empathy standpoint.
I wouldn't mind the current ending if there were *consequences.* Like what if it was Zelda's turn to have amnesia after a long nap? What if she came back wrong and was some dragon hybrid? (Lizard people anyonee??) This fix would also work great if those same consequences were in place. Even with all the build up of hope that Link can get Zelda back, make draconification have SERIOUS consequences, even if it is just turning Zelda into an anthropomorphic dragon. Nintendo missed out big time there on sales too.
A thought I had to 'fix' the ending, even keeping the ghosts, would be that the king and queen show up and pull/coax out Zelda's spirit from her dragon form (through a combination of light magic finding and her soul and time magic reverting it to before she was altered). This could cause the draconic form to revert (as the soul is no longer there) to Zelda's original body.
Zelda and Link have a farewell scene, perhaps somehow granting Link with some information or magic mark that grants him some high authority like making him the new king (more likely a regent or steward of the kingdom). She would tell him that she knows they'll meet again someday (probably her thinking about the afterlife, but the fans would know what it really means).
Spirit realm scene fades, Zelda's body falls towards the ground, and Link still catches her as normal, not to 'save her life', but to honor her sacrifice and give her a proper burial.
If they REALLY wanted to have this sort of scene, we could then have the goodbye scene with Mineru(sp?), but alter it a bit. Instead of it happening right after, have Purah(sp?) thank Mineru for her help restoring the kingdom (implying it's been a bit of time since since Zelda's burial, we could even get that scene as either a little flashback or before this whole scene). Mineru, with her words and the construct drooping, is obviously tired and held on as long as she could to help the kingdom and its people that Zelda sacrificed everything for. As she lets go, we see the spirit particles indicating a spirit has left the mortal realm (like we saw with the King and Champions at the end of BotW). Here the Sages would could, reaffirm their commitment to the realm, to honor Zelda's sacrifice, to follow Link in her stead, and pledge to help restore the kingdom so it is ready for when Zelda's spirit is reborn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why I like this, beyond it being how I'd have like see it play out, is that it covers why this couldn't happen earlier as Sonya(sp?) (I think it's obvious by now I SUCK at remembering how to spell names XD ) could have easily been trapped by Gannon(sp?), in a similar say as the Champions were trapped by the Blights, so only after his defeat was her spirit free. Zelda's sacrifice still means something, it was a sacrifice in truth one she never thought could be undone. It's a bittersweet ending.
Yeah, it's still a bit of a 'a wizard did it' sort of thing that Raru(sp?) and Sonya could do this, but it's also somewhat plausible as they both felt a connection to her, that she embodies both the sacred and time aspects that they do, so it's more acceptable in my head for it to make sense that this could work.
Another reason I like this is that this would unshackle Zelda from the royal bloodline, which could open the series up to Zelda being the main playable character in a FUCKING ZELDA GAME! Seriously, it's called 'The Legend of Zelda' not 'The Legend of Link', Zelda does fuck all, nothing really noteworthy ever (until recently), Link is the one who does LEGENDARY stuff!
If the final scene still happened, then it would be Mineru and Purah telling the others that Zelda, her spirit at least, will be back some day. That implies that the characters did some research and determined this for themselves, which gives the Sages a reason for their cringe declaration, and would give Link something to strive for. Possibly even setting up a new Royal Bloodline through Link and....Purah (get that shika blood back into the mix) (there are better options but one of them is dead for over 100 years and the other would only ever produce female gerudo(sp?) offspring) (actually, it would be kinda funny if that were the case and a reborn Gannon was this Link's descendant).
This idea would still need some setup in the game to work imo, but yeah, I could see it being done that way!
@@Drakenwild They actually did set this up somewhat. The fact they could feel a connection to her, as she embodies both Time and Light. Then in the tea scene, when Zelda knocks over her cup, Sonya explains HOW to use rewind, and she seems to be much more skilled at it than Zelda.
It might need a bit more, but it still fits better than the BS they pulled.
I think if Zelda turning back if Link did everything he was supposed to, so you can have like two endings. I don't think that was too much to ask. I would like my choices to matter some.
I think Tears of the Kingdom's story is kind of not good overall regardless of the respective magic system but yeah that is overlooked in TOTK. Funny enough it would have been cool if they left the tragedy of learning what happens to Zelda just that and she helps you beat the Demon Dragon and that's it. The third game could introduce a new threat while also making finding a way to reverse dragonification a big goal. Maybe that recons the whole "There's no going back" but at least it's not a cop out in the form of a last minute 'psyche' and you get a brand new game that moves pass the malice and gloom and I'd argue even the Sky and Depths for a slightly more condensed but more packed and interesting Hyrule with life flourishing more and more.
Or they could have just made a DLC that happens after you beat the game and has you help Zelda turn back through the Impa plotline that was dropped. There were options better than this.
The team proves once again that when they actually work hard on something, they lose all concept of “kill your darlings”
When I saw a new Drakenwild video, I was like, "Yipee!" Then I saw the "spoiler ahead" text at the start of the video and I knew I had to stop watching. I was so excited! Thanks so much Drakenwild for warning people about spoilers, though I'm getting close to beating the game, I just got my forth sage! :)
No worries! Is a long game. Hope you have fun!
Thanks! @@Drakenwild
I think the biggest issue with the story is how things were built up
The trailers showed something really dark and there was mystery in who the Zonia were you couldn’t on the internet without seeing a theory but in the game it’s nothing like that maybe it was my fault maybe I let the theories get to me too much
This game’s story feels disconnected from the other games for example in the other games Gannondorf has been the same guy throughout the franchise except in totk which is an odd choice
Could you imagine if the Gannondorf in this game was the same Gannondorf from the other games with all his history and battles I feel they tried doing a kind of reboot with the other games being in the “distant past” meaning we get a new character who is called Gannondorf.
I think a different story was being built up in the first game I believe Botw was more about Zelda than Link the memories are about her and her sealing power and the the dlc memories have Zelda in them in some way even the spin off game is more about Zelda but the sequel does less of that instead focusing on the new Gannondorf and the new origin of hyrule the beginning isn’t from Skyloft anymore it’s from the Zonia it feels disconnected like a new story is written over the old one
Imagine if the story was still focused on Zelda who for most of her journey has been unsure of herself and without her powers but after going under the castle they discover Gannondorf’s body who has been sealed for many thousands of years in pure hate his malice spilling out of his body maybe theory of the ancient hylians using him for ancient energy still works the years of draining had made him into the mess seen now until Link and Zelda get too close except Link falls into the hole instead of Zelda now she’s the playable character with the quest of rebuilding the master sword and stopping Gannondorf
The Zonia stay a mystery but it’s hinted at them being people who stayed in skyloft no time travel
Maybe the fake Link is wearing the hero of time tunic because that’s the link Gannondorf thinks about the first Link to stop him or Skyloft Link the first ever Link in the timeline
Going back to skyloft could bring back Fi and Demise
With Zelda having to fight and train maybe she learns about her past like sheik and the CDI Zelda
Perhaps the secret stones are Tri-force pieces I did think 3 for each tri-force piece but there’s only 8 unless they bring back the link between the Kokori and Koroks making a champion from the past Kokori and a new Korok warrior so 7 sages Gerudo, Rito, Zora, Goron, Shiekah, Hylian and Kokori/Korok plus Link and Zelda meaning 9 people with a secret stone a piece of the Tri-Force but since Link fell into the hole Gannondorf has it
Sorry for it being so long and the last part being more fan faction like but the main point is it feels disconnected from what was shown in trailers and the past games
3:31 ok I haven’t watched the whole video yet but as of right now I honestly don’t understand what you mean “ didn’t create a narrative that aloud them to do that” because they did … link raru and sounia rewound Zelda I always thought that was obvious( ok I get it now you did explain)
Brilliant video, and honestly I am 100% on board with your proposed fix
Thank you, Captain!
I would’ve preferred to travel with Zelda in the past and experiance the journey with her. No memories, just an adventure where both Link and Zelda are playable characters. I would prefer had she stayed a dragon, and we as the player truly feel the impact even more because we experienced this tragic event with her.
This 100%.
I think it's better if they said they don't know how to reverse the dragonificstion process
It really is bad storytelling. A bunch of people have complained about this Zonai Ex Machina before, and long with the Deus Egg Machina in Age of Calamity. I actually did a chat with my buddy Oni Black Mage about this very topic about a month after the game came out. Our conclusions were very similar to yours, there should be a bad ending where she is stuck, and a good ending where you jump through extra steps.
I really like your idea of extracting something from the Demon Dragon or its Secret Stone to fix Zelda. I was also disappointed like you, that Impa's research line is completely wasted. In some of my videos, I played with the idea that the three other dragons were Zonai who separated their souls from their bodies through the power of Spirit. I think something could have been done here like that if Mineru actually did anything besides stand around in a room and refuse to have conversations with you.
Good video Draken, good criticism here.
Thanks! ^^ And yeah, Mineru being passive was also a tad annoying to me, especially when things like Ancient Tablets quest exist. Like, gee, wouldn't it be nice to have someone who knows the Ancient Hyrulean around, right, Mineru?
Zelda definitely should have stayed a dragon by the end
Absolutely. It'd be a sad ending but sad endings are valid!
That would make them unable to continue the timeline past that point though, as there couldn’t be any more Hylia descendants.(not disagreeing, just saying it’s unlikely they would choose to do something like that)
@@epicgamernoisesintensifies6238 you just continue from the true ending. It really isn't as much of a restraint.
Its simple:zelda is still a dragon, she just need a dragonstone to change forms...wait what do you mean this isnt fire emblem?
>protagonist is a sword fighter with a legendary weapon
>You go around recruiting characters into a mini army
>All characters in this army can level up gaining bonuses
>They also have personal skills
>Split between anima(elemental), light and dark(gloom) magic
>3 types of melee weaponry, swords,lances and heavy weapons/axes
>BBEG is a powerfull dark magic user
>Final bossfight against a demonic dragon
>Light/divine dragon is a late game recruit that comes with the main character's legendary weapon
TOTK is clearly a FE game XD
1. My favorite type of Magic System is one with many rules, but just as many exceptions & new rules constantly being discovered, like actual science. ex.: Gravity Hill, Mount Aragats, Armenia
2. Not all Deus Ex Machinas are bad! Just like in real life, good & bad things can happen at random, like a hero, or villain, getting killed by a freak meteor shower or chocking on a snack.
I simplified and generalized my explanations for the sake of the video, didn't mean to say Deus Ex Machina is always bad! Just that it is too often used in a way that makes the story worse instead of better.
And yeah, the hard systems with an evolving understanding are great! The example I gave is like that, too. It only has one major rule, early on introduces an exception to it and then later the understanding of the rule changes in a way that both makes that exception fall in line and make much more sense and also recontextualizes the inciting incident. Rules are never changing but the audience's understanding does. Great stuff!
@@Drakenwild Is it really that hard when there are so many exceptions to the rules and new rules are constantly being discovered?
@@insanemakaioshin yes if you can look back and see that the new exceptions and rules have always applied but you just didn't know them yet. If you can't (because new rules have nothing to do with previous examples of magic, for instance) then the system is skewing towards a mixture of hard and soft.
@@Drakenwild The mixture was what I was expecting.
I agree, my experience with totk was so negative that I stopped being a zelda fan
I've seen quite a few people share that sentiment, you're not alone.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 my brother in bear, this isn't even related to Zelda staying or not staying a dragon. Are you really so upset by people having a different opinion that you are going to post this in every single comment thread under this video? Even unrelated ones?
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I'm not trying to silence you but I am also being barraged with your comments, all of which say the same thing, and most of them are @ me. I already talked to you about this in your own large comment thread, so I don't see why you need to scream this message out to me through every avenue. Not to mention that most of these comments you're replying to are months old, so you're pinging people who don't even remember the context of the conversation.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 I love her too, she is by far my favourite Zelda! And I do get being overly passionate about a character, lol. It's just good to be mindful of other people while expressing that passion, ya know :)
You're good. Hope you have a great day ;)
Man i just want a Zelda game with post game advanture or something
Would be nice :c
eminem benn real quiet latley
I kind of procrastinated on watching this (started watching, did something else, and then forgot to watch it) but anyways...
Zelda's personality at the end of btow and, well, the entirety of total has changed, even if slightly. I don't exactly know how to explain it but, comparing how she acts while sealing the calamity 100 years ago at after dark beast ganon, along with how she acts during the final "secret" ending of btow to how she acts, just in general in totk just makes me feel like something is off.
Personally, I don't think so. She's always been a huge nerd but back in BotW she wasn't really allowed to be herself because of Rhoam's parenting. He's no longer there in TotK, so the nerd is unleashed.
@@Drakenwild It wasn't necessary that, it was mostly how she acted in the memories. Aside from the first few and final two.
The way i see the 'breaking of the rules' regarding building up the irreversibility of becoming a dragon, is simply just they didn't know there was a way to reverse it until it came to it in this unique situation with these specific characters. I would like to mention that I myself would have preferred for to have went down differently too, I think Zelda being stuck as a dragon would have actually been really cool and set up some interesting lore for the future, even if we are moving away from the wilds era. oh well, still found it really cool!
Nice video, really enjoyed it and your fix idea! Top work Draken 👏
Thank you! :D
And limited character knowledge is a valid way of approaching a magic rule but even with this assumption, I don't think it was done well. Them showing up at the end straight from the spirit realm to try this was still very out of nowhere. I'd have a much easier time accepting this if there was even just a tiny bit of foreshadowing for that but unfortunately, there was not.
Honestly, I would have loved an emotional, dramatic, and tragic ending, where Zelda either stays a dragon, or Dragon Zelda sacrifices herself to land the killing blow and there's an emotional goodbye, perhaps even seeing Zelda's ghost alongside Sonia and Rauru. Would have been a very captivating, somewhat tragic end to the story.
I would have, too! But with the suggestion I wanted to preserve the circularity of the story, since that was a very intentional narrative choice. (And also why I suggested having something be lost regardless.)
Time travel
Time travel.
wish Zelda had some semblance character arc like she did in BoTW. She's a very static character in this story, and its odd that the series went from my favorite Princess Zelda story to my least favorite. Nice edit to the original story tho, I love any excuse for another dungeon
You can never go wrong with an additional dragon. And yeah, it is unfortunate they made her a static character this time. I still like her a lot but yeah, there was so much that could have been done with this plot and just wasn't in favour of tea parties.
That's why I think BOTW's story hard carried for TOTK when it came to the dragon scene. Zelda is barely a character in TOTK's memories and the scene wouldn't have had remotely the same emotional impact if BOTW's characterization of her never happened.
Basically the moment she goes back in time, Zelda stops being BOTW style nerdy-somewhat-insecure Zelda and becomes so static and borderline emotionless at times. There's just something about the writing in TOTK that feels off compared to BOTW.
@@redbaronflyer8392 yep, very true. TotK did still try very hard to make her likable through npcs and things she's done around in Hyrule after BotW but knowing her from BotW is definitely the major factor.
@@redbaronflyer8392 I always thought it'd be interesting if she had some sort of argument with Link right before she fell, and then she can't stop thinking about how that was their last interaction before they got separated.
The story is tangled up in knots, especially when it comes to Zelda and the light dragon.
Yeah, it really is. Some aspects of it weren't given sufficient thought.
This game saved my life, I wanted to go after finishing it, but it disappointed me so much that I decided to wait for other games, I didn't even finish it.
The story had a lot of missed potential :(, even OoT had a better narrative and it came out in 1997 (it was a linear game though).
I just want a simple, but good story, kinda like Super Mario Galaxy or BotW at least. It's okay if they want to focus on the gameplay, but that's not an excuse to give us this 😭😭.
Then, in a twisted way it's actually good it turned out underwhelming? Cause you're still here.
I had this same conversation with my friend who lives the Zelda games
Except for the fact that they didn’t know that 2 dead people channeling their power through a swordsman with the arm of the sage of light could reverse draconifification because idk they didn’t experience the event.(probably mentioned in the video but I have other stuff to watch) I personally don’t see any problems with the ending
Edit: also I wouldn’t say the story was RUINED
If you aren't gonna bother hearing me out then I'm not gonna bother engaging in a discussion.
My UA-cam was dry of good uploads so I came back and watched the vid. I planned on doing that later but here we go. So you did mention the fact that they didn’t know that dead people could reverse draconification in some way.
I get that it feels like the buildup was for nothing.
Also I would feel that if Zelda wasn’t saved despite everything you did a lot of players would be unsatisfied
I agree 100%. I wouldn’t even mind if Zelda stayed as a dragon, it would be a kind of bitter sweet ending. After all, link’s main quest was to find Zelda and not save her. This also ties with his other quests like *finding all her memories*. Otherwise, I’m on board with your alternate ending because it makes sense and gives link a greater purpose. ❤
Thanks! And yeah, there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with having this one be a tragedy.
PREEEACHHHHHHH
I think that Zelda staying a dragon would help tie in the players experience to post story content, ex: looking for shrines
On one hand, yes, on the other, even in BotW post game was essentially happening before the ending took place, so that part isn't that weird.
Hey! Im the 13th comment!
Nice! :D
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True, but the flashbacks from the light dragon’s tears are much worse. The last one rewrote the entire series thus far.
This game was very clearly a series reboot to me from the very start. Even BotW felt separated.
Imo, its fine. Something ive noticed is that, totk and botw are the same era of hero and the same legend, just told by two equally unreliable narrators. Once you break the games into pin points, they are the same. Link wakes up in an area full with remnants of a magical tech based extinct race. Links main utility wheel is gifted by said race. THEN, HE LEAVES SAID AREA TO MEET WITH PURAH AND IMPA GETTING SENT ON A QUEST TO HELP THE 4 CHAMPIONS OF EACH RACE, in the end fighting ganon with zeldas help. Now, that sounds like a normal zelda game. But, you can explain botw and totk the EXACT same way with no difference except for saying zonai or sheikah. My theory is that they are both the same story, just told by a sheikah/zonai as some bedtime story. I like this theory since it explains the lack of divine beasts.
A bedtime story, huh... Never heard of that before, but I like it!
@@S0RNG yeah, its the only way i can play totk and get past the glaring issues with its story, and i really havent heard anyone else with this concept
Ngl the dragon fight was more boring than trying to get all koroks
I enjoyed it as a set piece, Ganondorf fight was difficult enough to justify having an easy final phase.
@@Drakenwild yeah I just genuinely like harder bosses better
Except for twin mold that boss is horrible
Well, I think that fight wasn't intended to be hard, just *cool*- you already beat Ganondorf in his... humanoid form, which was *incredibly* hard, so this fight in the sky was moreso meant to up the "cool factor", if that makes sense.
@@S0RNG to me it still was pretty boring
actual flaws
bloated dlc
temples and bosses should have been in the first game
asspull everything
crafting is cool but i have no creative ideas
your gear is stolen and hidden
your map is reset
everything is reset
the dragon final battle is cheesy
the giant boss was already a joke
too much underground
too much of the same puzzles and cutscenes
breakable weapons, rain and stamina
:) ya
@@Drakenwild:)
I personally loved totk's story but also found the ending to be a bit mediocre and cheap.
At the very least they could've had it so that Zelda forgot literally everything when she did turn back to normal.
Regardless, this sounds like a way better ending to totk than the one we got.
Yeah, I would be far less upset about this situation if there was still a consequence to Zelda draconifying herself. Forgetting everything, like you said, or having her personality altered, or her just having gone mad due to being conscious the entire time she was a dragon and witnessing all the war and suffering happening beneath. Though I guess that last one would be difficult to convey in a short ending cutscene.
The old good, new bad crowd is crazy lol. These are the same people who will say Zelda randomly coming back at the end of TP was peak fiction but say its bad when new game does it too. What even is this dribble I'm listening too?
Oh no, her randomly coming back in TP sucked too.
...I'm sorry? She never said anything about *ANY* past game, let alone TP??? Genuine question, did you even watch this video???
@@S0RNG Beta of the Wild was devoid of content and trash, seek help
@@chooongusbug724 …I. Did not even say ANYTHING about BOTW. Also, that’s your opinion- others may think otherwise. With all the kindness I can muster (/gen), please, *you* go get help for yourself, or step off the internet for a bit- both work.
@@S0RNG I never said you said anything about BotW, I'm just saying, Beta of the Wild sucks. Comprehension is hard
are u south indian?
Nope. I'm Polish!
Yeah, this part of the story was very dumb, I kinda didn't care about everything that happened after that because of it
200% right
Thanks!
Personally I wish she stayed a dragon, even in a true ending. Something about Zelda, this iconic character, losing herself like that is so sick to me. It makes me think of Link having to define himself outside of the Zelda Link Ganondorf context since two thirds of the equation are no longer
I wouldn't mind that either! I just wanted to preserve the circular narrative in the suggested rewrite because that is also a neat narrative concept.