Sralaine 007 o-007 yes, but Acura competes with Lexus. He’s wanting Honda to bring the AWD down from the Acura models to the Accord model, which competes with the Camry.
It usually comes down to a matter of clearance, not all wheel drive. Most vehicles (fwd, awd) will do OK in a couple of inches of snow, or even on ice if they don't have climb something dramatic, IF they are equipped with a good set of winter tires. But increase that snow to an 8 or 10 inch drift or an unplowed road and you are high centered and stuck. This is where the Subaru shines (along with its symmetrical AWD, which doesn't wait until you slip to kick in, it's always on), with 8.7 inches of clearance. Most people who get stuck in the snow are high centered. At least around here.
All the tests were good even the last one. You got off the rollers in the real world I’m just looking to not get stuck. If the car does that without a whole lot of drama I’m happy.
I work for subaru plant in Lafayette Indiana. Toyota owns 23% of shares in subaru of America. Its joint venture from both companies. We built camrys for them from 2006-2016 at SIA
Reactive AWD systems like this are decent at getting you up a driveway or moving forward more quickly from a stop but when traveling 60+ MPH down the road they are usually too late to prevent a car from sliding out of control. A full-time AWD system like Subaru uses will help prevent wheel slippage at higher speeds and therefore help prevent loss of control.
Meh, front wheel drive cars are quite stable at high speeds. Unless you’re rallying your car, it should be sufficient. Tires/driver matter much much more at those speeds.
@@johnjordan4726 The beauty of an full-time AWD system (like Subaru) IMHO is the daily driving experience. I can think of a ton of examples/scenarios where I think full-time AWD has advantages. Turning left/right from a stop at an intersection, especially when on wet roads, you have way more control and less chance of slipping/sliding. Even just driving straight on the freeway and hitting a patch of water, since all wheels are getting power you are less likely to lose ability to control your car if you hydroplane (usually not all wheels hydroplane in full-time AWD). It's also easier to tell if you are reaching the limits of the vehicle with full-time AWD, vs the reactive AWD system which is less predictable (i.e. you don't know how it's going to react until after the fact). With full-time AWD you can feel the car's limits in real-time. You also get a more even experience in just overall performance since both the front and rear-wheels are propelling the vehicle forward in a full-time AWD system. Going around corners even on dry pavement is smoother and more controllable. Consider 2 vehicles with exact same power/tq numbers...the full-time AWD is getting the power split evenly (more or less) to all wheels at all times, where as the reactive AWD system is putting all power to the front and only sending to the rear when needed, but this makes it more difficult to anticipate handling in various common driving conditions...also means you are less likely to spin the wheels on full-time AWD vehicle (again, you have more control/traction).
@@slandshark Ehh you can see the rear wheels get power instantly. Its not a full transfer to the wheel with traction though. Acts like an e-diff to say for the current terminology. Subie is not a full time AWD system as you describe it, it still has almost an e-diff quality to it. If it was the older models a la torsen type differential that can lock, then yes, it is purely an active differential because of the worm wheel and worm gear physics. You can also somewhat count clutch pack type in there depending on it's engagement angles, and more of a stretch but the standard bevel gear with high preload. However, you can quickly look at the newer, as in past 6 years or so subies not acting as such. On the corner test, or three wheels on rollers, the opposite side wheel should have zero slip, as one the slip starts, the entire pack should lock together if it is an active differential set up doing a true full time AWD. You can clearly see they do not, and slip, meaning it is a reactive setup. Heck, some of the subies failed the side load and corner test, if not failed, they need significantly more throttle input. Basically all vehicles now though, have reactive systems. Just depends on how the transfer is initially done. Like fluid couplers are common, as well as clutch. Many vehciles now though run open diff, with the brakes handling the differential and locking work. But this car, not for off roading, out did many a vehicle on the roller test, save for the few that have a true locking differential or transfer. If you want predictability, just go RWD, nothing beats that when it comes to knowing what is going on. One set of wheels only provides power, the other steering. Compared to FWD and AWD were they are multi tasking the front.
I can see why some don't like CVT's in Subarus, but I have no problem with mine. Comparing my experience with a regular automatic 4-speed in a previous Subaru I owned, it's really a toss-up as far as I'm concerned.
I appreciate how you gently hit the gas, almost no throttle to start. So many of these roller tests on autos the driver's always hit the gas hard, which is stupid and makes 90% of vehicles tested look almost worthless.
@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt TFL tests dozens of new vehicles each year. Including many all wheel drive vehicles. They almost never use this test. The slip test is one of the easiest tests for TFL to perform but they don’t use it consistently. They had a Chevrolet Blazer a while back and had a perfect opportunity to test the all wheel drive system, but didn’t.
Wow. I remember just a few years ago only SH-AWD from Acura and the Subarus and the Porsche AWD could win at the three wheel slip test. Nice to see it coming to the Camry!
Most AWD systems today will do this simple test today. One test TFL didn't do was a single rear tire on the ground and the other three on rollers. It slides sideways off rollers and onto roller frame.
I really wish the AWD system could handle the V6. I'd love to pick up one of those with AWD. I have a 2015 V6 and it can easily break traction on dry pavement (on new Pirelli rubber no less). In snow the traction control can't even keep the front wheels from spinning if you're careless with the throttle.
Yes that was basically the V6 RAV4 and that is why they are still so sought after today because when you think about it what is it really a V6 all-wheel-drive tall wagon with 300 hp naturally aspirated
@@thetechlibrarianThey're sleepers. I loved my 2010 Sport V6 4WD. I never got stuck in NYC parking spots. Traded for a 2013 Venza Xle AWD V6. Its a bit heavier and maybe. 5 seconds slower to 60 (ive gotten 5.9 in the Rav4 and 6.5 in the Venza) than the Rav but 6spd auto vs 5 spd so around the same mpg for me on the highway and more Luxury features and the best part is the engine bay vs the Rav4 for those that do their own Tune-ups.
Get a Subaru Legacy. Many awd systems are front wheel based, or rear wheel based with awd system added. They are reactive vs. full time . So you're more prone to get stuck. Roller test on flat pavement is one thing, but a mountain road on black ice, or freeway in heavy rain is another.
Love the slip tests, they are always so interesting. Some day if you can organize it you guys should do one with the Jeep Cherokees and try to get all three versions of the 4x4 system to compare, it would be cool to see the difference between active drive I, II, and II + lock.
Hey Tommy: Have you ever done this test going in reverse? I would be curious to see how well awd drive vehicles work when backing out of situation. I had a Toyota Venza awd, and I don’t think the awd worked very well when I would back into my driveway in the winter.
@@rosscajayon8177 Not a given. The system would need programming to operate in reverse. Vastly different dynamics at play between forward and reverse motion.
There is also the possibility that your tires are directional. Most winter tires are biased to work in the forward rotational direction. It might not be a huge difference, but if makes a difference once or twice, you'd notice.
That would be cool to overlay other cars doing the slip test. So impressed with the new awd systems that all the companies finally figured out and are using.
Thank you Tommy for doing this test for me. I really appreciate your honesty that you believe that the car slipped off the rollers on the test. But I am confident knowing I bought a good enough car for the snowy winters. A safe and reliable car at that.
This is cool to see. I once got an almighty Land Cruiser stuck in my own driveway in a diagonal slip situation, even with the center differential locked.
@@marktiny8928 Thanks, the SE model seems like a more sensible option than this over-styled XSE. The FWD Camry achieved quite stunning mpg numbers with Car & Driver getting FORTY-FIVE mpg in their 75 mph test run. So far I have not seen any numbers from the big publications for the new AWD model.
@@rightlanehog3151 honestly the Xse is nice but I only paid 24,500 for the awd se . If I was to spend any more I probably would have gotten the trd Camry.
@@marktiny8928 In its own way, the TRD makes a lot of sense. It would be a very positive development if other makes/models offered more performance and fewer frills for a fair price.
Actually get a reliable 4wd like a Toyota 4 runner, Tundra and Tacoma. Jeep just built up this idea of being the best offroad vehicle and people think "snow" and "Offroad" is the same thing. But Jeep is just a name now, they're not what they once was, Fiat owns them now and they are junky vehicles. They're more like toys rather than daily drivers. You can't put 20,000 miles a year on those things. I know, I used to own one and it was missfiring at 25,000 miles and the suspension was falling out. And Subaru is dropping in reliability because of the CVTs they use by Jatco. I wouldn't argue with you if they were still using traditional automatics.
It's good that Subaru is a target. I've owned Subarus for about 15 years, but the reality is they've gotten complacent. They have not done much to make better systems for quite some time. They say they have advanced systems, but an electric clutch center plus open diffs front and rear with only ABS based wheel spin control is what most brands have these days. This is not special. Any programming layered upon this isn't particularly special. Subaru also has a separate problem. Their system isn't as fast as some others to react and control wheel spin. The ABS system feels a generation or two old compared to some other brands. Subaru has a good awd system in the STI, but they do not place any mechanical diffs in other models. Even the use of a viscous diff in the rear is very rare anymore. Even though a viscous type is a mild limited slip device, it is a noticeable improvement with good function once some heat is built up. The introduction of other awd control devices, like smart rear diffs with electric/hydraulic clutch packs have been a moderate improvement over systems without. Honda's SHAWD is a good example of this, and in direct comparison to the best non-STI Subaru system to Honda's SHAWD system, Honda's system feels significantly better, faster, and enough so that even the default fwd format is almost invisible. The ABS system is faster to function too, by a lot. Other brands have similar advanced systems including BMW and Porsche. Even Audi's system is inherently a faster system. This is noticeable in slow speed wheel spin comparisons where Audi has some of the fastest ABS assist on the market, often only needing 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the wheel to engage versus most other brands requiring one or several full rotations of the wheel to react and properly apply enough brake force. Subaru's system in comparison is ok but not class leading in any way. The fact of the matter is Subaru has now become outdated due to complacency, and for a brand built on its awd image, this is bad, really bad. It's also annoying as a consumer and long time Subaru owner because they have the STI which is one of the best awd systems on the market, with mechanical diffs, with ABS assist, with additional programming for torque vectoring, and an array of sensors to monitor car behavior. It's all the right pieces and a very, very good system. Even the very old, purely mechanical system without ABS or anything is very good on its own simply because mechanical diffs alone are so good already. With all that and with so many years in racing and of core brand identity, they don't do anything advanced in their other cars. They don't push the envelop or even really compete against some other options, even non-premium options. Now Subaru does have a BIG saving grace. Subaru awd systems are rugged systems. They don't wear out. They don't break. They don't overheat. They just work. They work on day one, year one, and two decades later. They just work. This is one aspect where Subaru really stands out. However, how much does this help them sell cars? How much does this keep customers? In terms of keeping customers, the last vehicle I bought was NOT a Subaru. To their credit, I bought a Ridgeline because I was transitioning to a midsize pickup, and Subaru just doesn't make a pickup (they should and should put the STI drivetrain in it). Still, I was also heavily looking at other brands including Volvo, Mazda, Audi, and BMW more heavily than I ever have in the past. What made Subaru unique in no longer unique in the market place. Other brands have caught up, filled in the gaps, and offer comparable or better elements. To Subaru's credit, they are a very engineering oriented company, and the products show this. These are some of the best designed, durable, well thought out, utilitarian, and lasting vehicles on the market. Subaru also has probably the best safety suite on the market too. When I had my 2015 Legacy 3.6R, I FULLY trusted that system to the point where I don't think it was possible for me to actually crash into something if I tried (and I did try for fun). Comparing to Honda's system in my Ridgeline, Subaru feels generations newer and better. I know I can buy a Subaru, and it will not have problems for 20 years. I have two that have already proven this repeatedly, and these are vehicles I've raced in autocross and rallycross too and beat the absolute piss out of in addition to dailying them. I don't think there's a better engineered brand on the market, and I say this as an engineer that does product engineering. I just wish they weren't playing such a conservatives game on one of its core brand identities, awd, and would be willing to go hard or at least offer a higher awd package with helical diffs or something, anything. They also need to work more on their abs and stability control systems as other brands like Honda are noticeably better.
Subaru's oil consumption issues with the FB25 engine, and their choice of offering CVT option only, have forced me to consider other brands. Frankly, I'm saddened as I thought I'd simply own Foresters until the end of time. Looking at Passports, RAV4s, and 4runners now. Still like the Crosstrek 6MT though!
Do not buy this car if you live where you get more then 6 inches snow. My downstairs neighbor has the same car with snow tires & gets stuck in driveway every time we get snow where my outback with older all seasons doesn’t struggle at all too drive thru the deep snow
I've never been an AWD or 4WD fan. I've lived in Chicago for more than 50 years in the snow and have never needed either. I've also seen many 4WD and AWD off the road in the snow. I've had many different Cars and SUV's and never had an issue in the snow or rain that couldn't be corrected with proper tires. 1994 Blazer RWD Limited Slip (new) with Uniroyal Tiger Paw Tires. I did donuts in the snow and never had an issue even after 6 years (60K) with the same tires. I only changed them because of little cracks in the tires. 2009 Corolla S (new) with Goodyear Eagles. Drove thru 11" of snow several times without issue. No issues in Rain either until 25k miles, then I replaced the tires. I learned many tires just aren't good in the snow and rain especially after 3-5 K miles. Even some All-Season Tires flop after a while. I've had 3 Vehicles with AWD. 2014 Murano, 2018 Rav4, 2018 Acura RDX (wife's cars). ALL have a firm ride that I hate. My FWD 2004 Sienna Limited has never had an issue in the rain or snow and rides like a dream as did my Blazer, and my Corolla. I'm looking to buy a 2022 Camry XLE, but it won't be AWD. AWD causes many people to ignore their tires and road conditions and trust the AWD. This is not a good thing. I'll pass.
Thank you. Excellent review/report. It was good to visually see how an AWD system actually works. You read, hear and even drive these sort of vehicles but never really get a good visual until now.
In the late 80's and early 90's there was an All-Trac version of the Camry. The same AWD system was also available in the Celica, Corolla, Previa and RAV of that era.
I live in the mountains of BC. We get SNOW. With my Honda Fit. I've probably been stuck once due to not enough ground clearance. Rest is always traction. Honestly, it's not as big as a deal that most tend to make it
I have an SE AWD and I believe the diameter of the tires is the same with the 18" wheels. There isn't a lot of clearance in there for snow pack but I haven't had any trouble. The AWD system works great for roads. I don't know that it is ultimately as good as a Subi in more harsh terrain but I don't need that. Overall I'm quite impressed with the Camry AWD. I do run Blizzaks in the winter and the car is very confident in snow and ice.
I think it did excellent. As much as I love Toyotas, I was not expecting it to do well on the slip test. Seeing this test, I am sure that in snowy condition and with winter tires, it will perform with confidence. The only thing I will change are those very tin tires. It seem that Toyota is not only prioritizing fuel efficiency and reliability, but incrementally adding performance and style, and we can see that in this Camry, the RAV4 Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid Prim, sienna and Highlander . I will leave the new Supra out since, I do not consider it a pure Toyota or pure Supra with 100% Supra/Toyota DNA, but it is BMW/Toyota. I still love their approach of being conservatives and doing things incrementally, which I think play a roll in Toyota reliability.
Good review. I think the Camry did really well! But I agree that it would be nice if Toyota had increased the ground clearance. I wonder why manufacturers don't do the same test themselves to test their AWD systems.
Outlander II AWC, Outlander III AWC, Outlander III S-AWC, Outlander PHEV S-AWC, Outlander Sport (ASX) AWC, Eclipse Cross S-AWC, Lancer Evo X S-AWC, Lancer Ralliart... Is that enough? 🙂
Garbage AWD system! Lol its a joke.. Try this on a slight incline and your screwed. Also Subaru AWD works very well at higher speeds. This system only works at very small speeds otherwise it's just open differential junk.
A test you may want to include in the future is have all four wheels on rollers. The purpose whould be to time the system's response (for vehicles without a locking centre differential and independent rear axle drive)
Pretty impressive AWD system, but those wheels wouldn't last a week on the roads where I live. This thing needs some tires with some sidewalls. Why do they even put these on commuter cars?
You have touched upon a very important point which is the vehicle's clearance from the ground ... I don’t know where the benefit of four-wheel drive would be without good clearance to face harsh environments.
Good job Tommy! Excellent demo. Finally! Now waiting on Honda for the Accord. Both will give the Legacy a run. That was a major differentiation for Subaru till now.
So it takes several seconds for the system to figure it out, how would would that work in an emergency situation? It will be thinking about it while the ditch gets ever closer.
It wouldn’t need to. Presumably you are talking about a vehicle moving at speed? If so, all 4 wheels will be rotating and so there is nothing for the system to figure out.
From the title was hoping you would have done this with a subaru too. Going to search but if youmhaven't done the slip test with a crosstrek please do. Love it when you decided to create and do this roller test for vehicles.
i don't remember what model, I think a outback but he did do the same test with a subaru. I wish they had a side by side video of each for better comparison, its been awhile but I don't remember as much wheel spin on the subaru, and they did do a inclined test on the subaru as well
Tommy disagrees with Subaru's he should never review a subaru ever again I do not understand why you purposely try to disprove subaru in this video you can tell in your tone of voice that you knew this before you were going to do the video Subaru's all wheel drive will always be better than all wheel drive always
I am tired of them putting down subaru. I am going to phone subaru and tell them never to send subaru to tflc again.. shit I'm tired of tommy 25 year old virgin
i mean this is a great thing if you love the camry and want it awd. but its going to cost 26k minimum I don't think the subaru legacy which is standard awd and starts at 23k is embarrassed
It would be interesting to carry out these tests on an inclined surface. It would simulate what it would be like to walk on a sloping street with low grip. The Teknikens Värld channel's media has already conducted tests like this.
I want to see a crossover and roller shoot out going forward and reverse I see cars that claim to be awd but the rear wheels barely do anything and are mostly just spinning front tires
I think that the car rotating off of the rollers wasn't a result of the wheels spinning, but a result of the right rear wheel pushing the car forward...meaning the car will pivot around it's center of mass to the left...
That’s the biggest problem with my 2020 Camry xse awd ground clearance is to low and in deep snow everything just gets stuck up in the wheel well and it’s hard to clear out which leads to the vehicle vibrating
No one can embarrass the AWD system of the Subaru. They have been king of driving in the snow, add #1 safety ratings in 2021, it’s the best family vehicle for people who live in cold weather.
I used to drive a 05 highlander and it slipped all the time. I don't understand the use of AWD if it isn't instantly working? If it takes even 3 seconds to turn on, you would already be in the slip.
i'm surprised the awd took so long to kick in. I can see getting into a lot of trouble at even 30 mph before the awd starts to help. Or is the awd 's main feature getting going in snow, with no thought to handling?
As always with this product Toyota did what Toyota does best which is building a quality, reliable, functional and most importantly conservative looking vehicle. Well done. Great job on the video too. 👍 Have a great holidays!
Tommy rocks the roller test! Glad to see that they are back.
that's why they rolling in the dough
That will be so dope. Not sure what Honda is waiting for .
He talks to much lol
The 1st test makes it look like the r34 skyline system. Only the rear wheels get power until it detects slip
Better rolller test is go to MUD, SNOW and SAND Like SUBARU DO !!!
I was expecting to see a Subaru comparison from the title.
Same here lol
The test was payed by Toyota so... No!
Must mean it didnt hold up to one 😂
I expected it also. thumbs down.
@@Iffy50 Thumbs up for thumbsing it down.
Hopefully this will finally get Honda to drop Acura’s “SH-awd” system to the accord.
Doubt it
WHAT, HONDA is Acura.... duhhhhh
Yes, please Honda 🙏
Sralaine 007 o-007 yes, but Acura competes with Lexus. He’s wanting Honda to bring the AWD down from the Acura models to the Accord model, which competes with the Camry.
Wilmar Barrick, the video shows that Toyota just did exactly what you just described. They did it on the Camry.
More slip test, YAY! This is arguably one of the most relevant tests being performed right now in the auto industry, keep em coming TFL!
It's nice to see Toyota bring back the all wheel drive Camry after a 30 year hiatus
Come on, those rollers needed oil 6 months ago
They get oiled before each use, I just can’t get the oil all the way down the sealed tube where some of the little bearings live.
@@TFLcar you may want to look into self lubricating alternatives when the time comes to replace them.
@@TFLcar sit them on their side pour a little oil inside the tube and let it seep thru.
Oh, look. A butthurt subaru fanboy
@@imtheonehero9305 he probably referencing how loud they are, those bearings are hurting you can hear it
I have a 2020 Toyota Camry SE AWD.. so I am glad Tommy did this test. Very reassuring.
You should have answer your own question in the conclusion part to your title "Can the Camry Embarrass a Subaru.....?
They are both equally embarrasing.
@@einfelder8262 😂
The Son and the Father are both Gooffy...... Haaaahaaaa 😂
They answered it just barely with the Crosstrek test. It was absolutely laughable!!! The Camry is definitely the best.
It usually comes down to a matter of clearance, not all wheel drive. Most vehicles (fwd, awd) will do OK in a couple of inches of snow, or even on ice if they don't have climb something dramatic, IF they are equipped with a good set of winter tires. But increase that snow to an 8 or 10 inch drift or an unplowed road and you are high centered and stuck. This is where the Subaru shines (along with its symmetrical AWD, which doesn't wait until you slip to kick in, it's always on), with 8.7 inches of clearance. Most people who get stuck in the snow are high centered. At least around here.
All the tests were good even the last one. You got off the rollers in the real world I’m just looking to not get stuck. If the car does that without a whole lot of drama I’m happy.
If you keep spinning by the time it's thinking you have dug a hole in the mud/snow and you're not going anywhere
I work for subaru plant in Lafayette Indiana. Toyota owns 23% of shares in subaru of America. Its joint venture from both companies. We built camrys for them from 2006-2016 at SIA
You guys never answered the question? How does it compare to a Subaru?
Stupid title.
Toyobaru, Subaru is a subsidiary of Toyota, parent company...
@@CJ-zz9ts Toyota owns a 20% stake in Subaru but Subaru is NOT a subsidiary of Toyota
Isn't it 17%
Subaru is still independent any way they just have shares in the company after they started withe the BRZ/86/FRS
And toyota did it the get there hands ons Subarus awd system
Reactive AWD systems like this are decent at getting you up a driveway or moving forward more quickly from a stop but when traveling 60+ MPH down the road they are usually too late to prevent a car from sliding out of control. A full-time AWD system like Subaru uses will help prevent wheel slippage at higher speeds and therefore help prevent loss of control.
Meh, front wheel drive cars are quite stable at high speeds. Unless you’re rallying your car, it should be sufficient. Tires/driver matter much much more at those speeds.
@@johnjordan4726 The beauty of an full-time AWD system (like Subaru) IMHO is the daily driving experience. I can think of a ton of examples/scenarios where I think full-time AWD has advantages. Turning left/right from a stop at an intersection, especially when on wet roads, you have way more control and less chance of slipping/sliding. Even just driving straight on the freeway and hitting a patch of water, since all wheels are getting power you are less likely to lose ability to control your car if you hydroplane (usually not all wheels hydroplane in full-time AWD). It's also easier to tell if you are reaching the limits of the vehicle with full-time AWD, vs the reactive AWD system which is less predictable (i.e. you don't know how it's going to react until after the fact). With full-time AWD you can feel the car's limits in real-time.
You also get a more even experience in just overall performance since both the front and rear-wheels are propelling the vehicle forward in a full-time AWD system. Going around corners even on dry pavement is smoother and more controllable. Consider 2 vehicles with exact same power/tq numbers...the full-time AWD is getting the power split evenly (more or less) to all wheels at all times, where as the reactive AWD system is putting all power to the front and only sending to the rear when needed, but this makes it more difficult to anticipate handling in various common driving conditions...also means you are less likely to spin the wheels on full-time AWD vehicle (again, you have more control/traction).
Do you think it's possible to make the AWD system in the Camry behaves like full time AWD system in Subaru by some tuning/software?
@@MASViper No.
@@slandshark Ehh you can see the rear wheels get power instantly. Its not a full transfer to the wheel with traction though. Acts like an e-diff to say for the current terminology. Subie is not a full time AWD system as you describe it, it still has almost an e-diff quality to it. If it was the older models a la torsen type differential that can lock, then yes, it is purely an active differential because of the worm wheel and worm gear physics. You can also somewhat count clutch pack type in there depending on it's engagement angles, and more of a stretch but the standard bevel gear with high preload. However, you can quickly look at the newer, as in past 6 years or so subies not acting as such. On the corner test, or three wheels on rollers, the opposite side wheel should have zero slip, as one the slip starts, the entire pack should lock together if it is an active differential set up doing a true full time AWD. You can clearly see they do not, and slip, meaning it is a reactive setup. Heck, some of the subies failed the side load and corner test, if not failed, they need significantly more throttle input.
Basically all vehicles now though, have reactive systems. Just depends on how the transfer is initially done. Like fluid couplers are common, as well as clutch. Many vehciles now though run open diff, with the brakes handling the differential and locking work. But this car, not for off roading, out did many a vehicle on the roller test, save for the few that have a true locking differential or transfer.
If you want predictability, just go RWD, nothing beats that when it comes to knowing what is going on. One set of wheels only provides power, the other steering. Compared to FWD and AWD were they are multi tasking the front.
Didn’t look like it was slipping to me on the last test. Pretty impressive. Also impressive that it’s not a CVT. Those are shameful.
Yeah, subaru should have used this toyota transmission, those CVT are killing subaru awd systems
@@alanmay7929 x mode can work the CVT better but yes I agree if it were a manual it would have been better or even an traditional auto
I can see why some don't like CVT's in Subarus, but I have no problem with mine. Comparing my experience with a regular automatic 4-speed in a previous Subaru I owned, it's really a toss-up as far as I'm concerned.
@Vlad cccp nope traditional 8 speed if I’m not mistaken
@Vlad cccp It's an 8 speed. No CVT is available for the Camry. Old school drivers buy the Camry.. they would never buy a CVT
I appreciate how you gently hit the gas, almost no throttle to start. So many of these roller tests on autos the driver's always hit the gas hard, which is stupid and makes 90% of vehicles tested look almost worthless.
Definitely impressed. Thanks for the video Tommy. Yall deserve every subscriber's support with Patreon.
Thanks for the support!
I like Toyota awd system... I had a 1990 and 92 Corolla wagon awd with 5 speed manual transmission. It was great in the snow
Outback got completely stuck in that 3 wheel test with one working rear with traction.
I'm impressed ... way better than some of the other "awd" systems Toyota has been using.
Somewhat better. Toyota's new EAWD systems much better programming and torque then previous gen.
you mean way better than the hybrid
Try to do a Camry AWD test again when you guys receive your first dump of snow
Can The Toyota Camry AWD Embarrass a Subaru On The TFL Slip Test? Well, does it?
Tommy, this test should be mandatory before any other off road testing. This test first, then off road.
@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt TFL tests dozens of new vehicles each year. Including many all wheel drive vehicles. They almost never use this test. The slip test is one of the easiest tests for TFL to perform but they don’t use it consistently. They had a Chevrolet Blazer a while back and had a perfect opportunity to test the all wheel drive system, but didn’t.
Personally I think it did great in even the last slip test, I saw the car get pushed forward in the slo mo but anyway it did great
Finally a good AWD system from Toyota! Nice seeing rear wheels actually push it off the rollers
*laughs in All-Trac*
Wow. I remember just a few years ago only SH-AWD from Acura and the Subarus and the Porsche AWD could win at the three wheel slip test.
Nice to see it coming to the Camry!
I’m sure Quattro handled the 3 wheel test just fine
My opinion give me a Subaru over a Toyota any day. Not saying Toyotas aren’t good vehicles, but I just think Subarus are step above my opinion.
I must have blinked one too many times. I never saw the Subaru. 😂
You should let manufacturers borrow your low dollar setup, they might learn something.
Most AWD systems today will do this simple test today. One test TFL didn't do was a single rear tire on the ground and the other three on rollers. It slides sideways off rollers and onto roller frame.
@@normt430 I think you skipped some of the video as that was exactly what he did at the end.
@@normt430 guess you should try watching at 5:40, you should really verify things before you say them
@@normt430 also many of the modern vehicles they test fail the roller test.
@@BullittKid08 not much fail them today. The single front tire on the ground test is missing as it will fail.
A GR performance Camry is crying out to happen.... this did really damn good.
The Camry is still a great looking car. Great buy
I really wish the AWD system could handle the V6. I'd love to pick up one of those with AWD. I have a 2015 V6 and it can easily break traction on dry pavement (on new Pirelli rubber no less). In snow the traction control can't even keep the front wheels from spinning if you're careless with the throttle.
There was never an AWD Camry for the 2015-17 model year.
Yes that was basically the V6 RAV4 and that is why they are still so sought after today because when you think about it what is it really a V6 all-wheel-drive tall wagon with 300 hp naturally aspirated
@@thetechlibrarianThey're sleepers. I loved my 2010 Sport V6 4WD. I never got stuck in NYC parking spots. Traded for a 2013 Venza Xle AWD V6. Its a bit heavier and maybe. 5 seconds slower to 60 (ive gotten 5.9 in the Rav4 and 6.5 in the Venza) than the Rav but 6spd auto vs 5 spd so around the same mpg for me on the highway and more Luxury features and the best part is the engine bay vs the Rav4 for those that do their own Tune-ups.
Slightly off topic but thanks for reminding me how fun my old 86 Subaru Legacy wagon was in the snow! Best car ever
one day hes going to slip up and do all 4wheels...
On a 6X6
Would actually be interesting to see with a Tacoma using crawl control.
@@KenLyns 💯
I see what you did there.
😂😂😂
i wish this was offered in a V6, i would have gotten this AWD instead of the V6 but the AWD was not out back in late 2017.
Get a Subaru Legacy. Many awd systems are front wheel based, or rear wheel based with awd system added. They are reactive vs. full time . So you're more prone to get stuck. Roller test on flat pavement is one thing, but a mountain road on black ice, or freeway in heavy rain is another.
Love the slip tests, they are always so interesting. Some day if you can organize it you guys should do one with the Jeep Cherokees and try to get all three versions of the 4x4 system to compare, it would be cool to see the difference between active drive I, II, and II + lock.
Great idea! We’ll see what we can do
As a Cherokee trailhawk owner I’d love to see that! Try with locker on then with locker off.
Hey Tommy: Have you ever done this test going in reverse? I would be curious to see how well awd drive vehicles work when backing out of situation. I had a Toyota Venza awd, and I don’t think the awd worked very well when I would back into my driveway in the winter.
It should perform the same way
@@rosscajayon8177 Not a given. The system would need programming to operate in reverse. Vastly different dynamics at play between forward and reverse motion.
Absolutely, definitely would like to see a backing out situation.
I noticed this as welll on my Matrix AWD its like its much more FWD bias in reverse
There is also the possibility that your tires are directional. Most winter tires are biased to work in the forward rotational direction. It might not be a huge difference, but if makes a difference once or twice, you'd notice.
You should grease up those rollers a little bit so that it can simulate real slick ice
Would love to see you guys test the new Acura TLX SH-AWD on rollers too
Acura/Honda SH system is AMAZING!
There are lots of videos that go back several years showing SH-AWD performing like a beast. That and the Subarus beat pretty much everything.
That would be cool to overlay other cars doing the slip test. So impressed with the new awd systems that all the companies finally figured out and are using.
Now that AWD Camry is a must in Canada. But people’s egos are way up high to the Arctic.
5 or 6 rotations of the other wheels before anything happens? How is this acceptable?
the camry awd starts at $26,370 sticker price, subaru legacy starts at 22,895. so for $3,000 more you get toyota. I'd stick with subaru
Thank you Tommy for doing this test for me. I really appreciate your honesty that you believe that the car slipped off the rollers on the test. But I am confident knowing I bought a good enough car for the snowy winters. A safe and reliable car at that.
A Mitsubishi or Subaru would destroy Toyota's Awd system.
This is cool to see. I once got an almighty Land Cruiser stuck in my own driveway in a diagonal slip situation, even with the center differential locked.
This is a real test and it works. Not like the fake Honda CRV all wheel drive. Great video.
Wish they made it in the v6 thats the biggest problem.
I'm sure it's an option
The take rate for the 6 is pretty low, did not justify the added development cost according to Toyota.
@@AttacCabbage it’s not actually.
@@atmartens Oh I see. That seems silly
@@AttacCabbage Yeah, I think so too but I'm assuming they didn't want to take away Avalon or Lexus sales, or maybe there's not much demand for it.
Tommy, All in all the traction is impressive in this new AWD model. Have you done 'real world' mpg tests vs the FWD 4 cylinder Camry?
I recently bought a 2020 se awd a couple of months ago. Average mpg is 28 . I get 36-38 mpg highway. Not to bad considering we are on winter fuel now
@@marktiny8928 Thanks, the SE model seems like a more sensible option than this over-styled XSE. The FWD Camry achieved quite stunning mpg numbers with Car & Driver getting FORTY-FIVE mpg in their 75 mph test run. So far I have not seen any numbers from the big publications for the new AWD model.
@@rightlanehog3151 honestly the Xse is nice but I only paid 24,500 for the awd se . If I was to spend any more I probably would have gotten the trd Camry.
@@marktiny8928 In its own way, the TRD makes a lot of sense. It would be a very positive development if other makes/models offered more performance and fewer frills for a fair price.
I have an SE with AWD and on highway I get 36.5 mpg easily and I have hit 38 before. This car seems to do best when it's hit top gear at 50 to 55 mph.
Need smaller wheels and better tires for snow, that’s for sure. Thanks for another great test/review.
Even in summer those rims would be harsh over bumps. Hit a big pothole and you could break a wheel.
The rims don’t matter.
Let me clarify, you’ll need smaller rims to put proper snow tires on. There’s not enough wheel well clearance to get snow tires on those rims.
Coming from a country where 85% of vehicles have manual transmissions, I found it amusing that you called that one a real transmission :-)
This is a brilliant video idea! I've officially added this car to my "consider" list because of this video.
Great for those that get a surprise snowfall once in a while. If you drive in snow all the time, get a Jeep or Subaru!
Actually get a reliable 4wd like a Toyota 4 runner, Tundra and Tacoma. Jeep just built up this idea of being the best offroad vehicle and people think "snow" and "Offroad" is the same thing. But Jeep is just a name now, they're not what they once was, Fiat owns them now and they are junky vehicles. They're more like toys rather than daily drivers. You can't put 20,000 miles a year on those things. I know, I used to own one and it was missfiring at 25,000 miles and the suspension was falling out. And Subaru is dropping in reliability because of the CVTs they use by Jatco. I wouldn't argue with you if they were still using traditional automatics.
I didn't see a Subaru in the test, how are you comparing the cars? Makes no sense.
It's good that Subaru is a target. I've owned Subarus for about 15 years, but the reality is they've gotten complacent. They have not done much to make better systems for quite some time. They say they have advanced systems, but an electric clutch center plus open diffs front and rear with only ABS based wheel spin control is what most brands have these days. This is not special. Any programming layered upon this isn't particularly special. Subaru also has a separate problem. Their system isn't as fast as some others to react and control wheel spin. The ABS system feels a generation or two old compared to some other brands.
Subaru has a good awd system in the STI, but they do not place any mechanical diffs in other models. Even the use of a viscous diff in the rear is very rare anymore. Even though a viscous type is a mild limited slip device, it is a noticeable improvement with good function once some heat is built up.
The introduction of other awd control devices, like smart rear diffs with electric/hydraulic clutch packs have been a moderate improvement over systems without. Honda's SHAWD is a good example of this, and in direct comparison to the best non-STI Subaru system to Honda's SHAWD system, Honda's system feels significantly better, faster, and enough so that even the default fwd format is almost invisible. The ABS system is faster to function too, by a lot. Other brands have similar advanced systems including BMW and Porsche. Even Audi's system is inherently a faster system. This is noticeable in slow speed wheel spin comparisons where Audi has some of the fastest ABS assist on the market, often only needing 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the wheel to engage versus most other brands requiring one or several full rotations of the wheel to react and properly apply enough brake force. Subaru's system in comparison is ok but not class leading in any way.
The fact of the matter is Subaru has now become outdated due to complacency, and for a brand built on its awd image, this is bad, really bad. It's also annoying as a consumer and long time Subaru owner because they have the STI which is one of the best awd systems on the market, with mechanical diffs, with ABS assist, with additional programming for torque vectoring, and an array of sensors to monitor car behavior. It's all the right pieces and a very, very good system. Even the very old, purely mechanical system without ABS or anything is very good on its own simply because mechanical diffs alone are so good already. With all that and with so many years in racing and of core brand identity, they don't do anything advanced in their other cars. They don't push the envelop or even really compete against some other options, even non-premium options.
Now Subaru does have a BIG saving grace. Subaru awd systems are rugged systems. They don't wear out. They don't break. They don't overheat. They just work. They work on day one, year one, and two decades later. They just work. This is one aspect where Subaru really stands out. However, how much does this help them sell cars? How much does this keep customers?
In terms of keeping customers, the last vehicle I bought was NOT a Subaru. To their credit, I bought a Ridgeline because I was transitioning to a midsize pickup, and Subaru just doesn't make a pickup (they should and should put the STI drivetrain in it). Still, I was also heavily looking at other brands including Volvo, Mazda, Audi, and BMW more heavily than I ever have in the past. What made Subaru unique in no longer unique in the market place. Other brands have caught up, filled in the gaps, and offer comparable or better elements.
To Subaru's credit, they are a very engineering oriented company, and the products show this. These are some of the best designed, durable, well thought out, utilitarian, and lasting vehicles on the market. Subaru also has probably the best safety suite on the market too. When I had my 2015 Legacy 3.6R, I FULLY trusted that system to the point where I don't think it was possible for me to actually crash into something if I tried (and I did try for fun). Comparing to Honda's system in my Ridgeline, Subaru feels generations newer and better. I know I can buy a Subaru, and it will not have problems for 20 years. I have two that have already proven this repeatedly, and these are vehicles I've raced in autocross and rallycross too and beat the absolute piss out of in addition to dailying them. I don't think there's a better engineered brand on the market, and I say this as an engineer that does product engineering. I just wish they weren't playing such a conservatives game on one of its core brand identities, awd, and would be willing to go hard or at least offer a higher awd package with helical diffs or something, anything. They also need to work more on their abs and stability control systems as other brands like Honda are noticeably better.
Subaru's oil consumption issues with the FB25 engine, and their choice of offering CVT option only, have forced me to consider other brands. Frankly, I'm saddened as I thought I'd simply own Foresters until the end of time. Looking at Passports, RAV4s, and 4runners now. Still like the Crosstrek 6MT though!
Is there's a market for it Honda needs to throw their SH-AWDv4 on those turbo 2.0 accords and they would light up Subarus all day.
Do not buy this car if you live where you get more then 6 inches snow. My downstairs neighbor has the same car with snow tires & gets stuck in driveway every time we get snow where my outback with older all seasons doesn’t struggle at all too drive thru the deep snow
My outback and legacy are champs. Never an issue.
I've never been an AWD or 4WD fan. I've lived in Chicago for more than 50 years in the snow and have never needed either. I've also seen many 4WD and AWD off the road in the snow. I've had many different Cars and SUV's and never had an issue in the snow or rain that couldn't be corrected with proper tires. 1994 Blazer RWD Limited Slip (new) with Uniroyal Tiger Paw Tires. I did donuts in the snow and never had an issue even after 6 years (60K) with the same tires. I only changed them because of little cracks in the tires. 2009 Corolla S (new) with Goodyear Eagles. Drove thru 11" of snow several times without issue. No issues in Rain either until 25k miles, then I replaced the tires. I learned many tires just aren't good in the snow and rain especially after 3-5 K miles. Even some All-Season Tires flop after a while. I've had 3 Vehicles with AWD. 2014 Murano, 2018 Rav4, 2018 Acura RDX (wife's cars). ALL have a firm ride that I hate. My FWD 2004 Sienna Limited has never had an issue in the rain or snow and rides like a dream as did my Blazer, and my Corolla. I'm looking to buy a 2022 Camry XLE, but it won't be AWD. AWD causes many people to ignore their tires and road conditions and trust the AWD. This is not a good thing. I'll pass.
Thank you. Excellent review/report. It was good to visually see how an AWD system actually works. You read, hear and even drive these sort of vehicles but never really get a good visual until now.
CVT transmission is pure garbage for AWD/4WD. Cuts power way too quickly to protect the CVT.
In the late 80's and early 90's there was an All-Trac version of the Camry. The same AWD system was also available in the Celica, Corolla, Previa and RAV of that era.
Hi tfl crew, I would love to see some slip test with Toyota e- awd. Sienna awd 2020 vs 2021 would be a great comparison.
I live in the mountains of BC. We get SNOW. With my Honda Fit. I've probably been stuck once due to not enough ground clearance. Rest is always traction. Honestly, it's not as big as a deal that most tend to make it
I have an SE AWD and I believe the diameter of the tires is the same with the 18" wheels. There isn't a lot of clearance in there for snow pack but I haven't had any trouble. The AWD system works great for roads. I don't know that it is ultimately as good as a Subi in more harsh terrain but I don't need that. Overall I'm quite impressed with the Camry AWD. I do run Blizzaks in the winter and the car is very confident in snow and ice.
Need to redo this test on a surface that is actually flat. Appears lateral motion was present in all 3 wheel tests. Do it right or not at all
These roller tests are some of my favorite videos! Keep up the good work!
I think it did excellent. As much as I love Toyotas, I was not expecting it to do well on the slip test. Seeing this test, I am sure that in snowy condition and with winter tires, it will perform with confidence. The only thing I will change are those very tin tires.
It seem that Toyota is not only prioritizing fuel efficiency and reliability, but incrementally adding performance and style, and we can see that in this Camry, the RAV4 Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid Prim, sienna and Highlander . I will leave the new Supra out since, I do not consider it a pure Toyota or pure Supra with 100% Supra/Toyota DNA, but it is BMW/Toyota. I still love their approach of being conservatives and doing things incrementally, which I think play a roll in Toyota reliability.
Good review. I think the Camry did really well! But I agree that it would be nice if Toyota had increased the ground clearance. I wonder why manufacturers don't do the same test themselves to test their AWD systems.
I know everyone hates Mitsubishi but I would love to see a test of their awd, awc, and awd lock feature works
Outlander II AWC, Outlander III AWC, Outlander III S-AWC, Outlander PHEV S-AWC, Outlander Sport (ASX) AWC, Eclipse Cross S-AWC, Lancer Evo X S-AWC, Lancer Ralliart... Is that enough? 🙂
It's pretty cool to see how far you've come in just a couple of years on TFL, Tommy! Nice review!
03:58 Lubricate rollers? Smoke and squealing isn't great.
Garbage AWD system! Lol its a joke.. Try this on a slight incline and your screwed. Also Subaru AWD works very well at higher speeds. This system only works at very small speeds otherwise it's just open differential junk.
A test you may want to include in the future is have all four wheels on rollers. The purpose whould be to time the system's response (for vehicles without a locking centre differential and independent rear axle drive)
Well done, very informative with a good test, I’m liking the new Camry.
I would like to see this test done again on a small incline! That will give me the really facts that I need!!
Why did't you show a Subaru Crosstrek ??
Love these tests! This more traditional system Toyota is using here clearly works much better than their weird hybrid AWD.
Pretty impressive AWD system, but those wheels wouldn't last a week on the roads where I live. This thing needs some tires with some sidewalls. Why do they even put these on commuter cars?
You have touched upon a very important point which is the vehicle's clearance from the ground ... I don’t know where the benefit of four-wheel drive would be without good clearance to face harsh environments.
I came for the answer to the Toyota Vs Subaru question, did you upload the wrong video? Tommy didn't even say Subaru!
Good job Tommy! Excellent demo. Finally! Now waiting on Honda for the Accord. Both will give the Legacy a run. That was a major differentiation for Subaru till now.
One additional thing that sets Subaru's system apart from others is its ability to handle sustained power transfer without overheating.
So it takes several seconds for the system to figure it out, how would would that work in an emergency situation? It will be thinking about it while the ditch gets ever closer.
It wouldn’t need to. Presumably you are talking about a vehicle moving at speed? If so, all 4 wheels will be rotating and so there is nothing for the system to figure out.
Camry All-trac 2021! Yippe, yay!
From the title was hoping you would have done this with a subaru too. Going to search but if youmhaven't done the slip test with a crosstrek please do. Love it when you decided to create and do this roller test for vehicles.
i don't remember what model, I think a outback but he did do the same test with a subaru. I wish they had a side by side video of each for better comparison, its been awhile but I don't remember as much wheel spin on the subaru, and they did do a inclined test on the subaru as well
Tommy disagrees with Subaru's he should never review a subaru ever again I do not understand why you purposely try to disprove subaru in this video you can tell in your tone of voice that you knew this before you were going to do the video Subaru's all wheel drive will always be better than all wheel drive always
I am tired of them putting down subaru. I am going to phone subaru and tell them never to send subaru to tflc again.. shit I'm tired of tommy 25 year old virgin
Now it just needs a 6 speed manual
i mean this is a great thing if you love the camry and want it awd. but its going to cost 26k minimum
I don't think the subaru legacy which is standard awd and starts at 23k is embarrassed
Tommy, please oil those rollers. Very hard on the ears with 🎧
hahaha
It would be interesting to carry out these tests on an inclined surface.
It would simulate what it would be like to walk on a sloping street with low grip.
The Teknikens Värld channel's media has already conducted tests like this.
So Toyota just did what Subaru did 15 years ago!.
What is he talking about? The Camry didn’t slip off the rollers at all in the last test, it came off on its own
I want to see a crossover and roller shoot out going forward and reverse I see cars that claim to be awd but the rear wheels barely do anything and are mostly just spinning front tires
When are we gonna see a SH-AWD test? Supposedly with the torque vectoring rear diff, the cars should perform really well. I want to see this!
I think that the car rotating off of the rollers wasn't a result of the wheels spinning, but a result of the right rear wheel pushing the car forward...meaning the car will pivot around it's center of mass to the left...
We have a 2020 xse. Great car. The awd seems silly because the tires are so tiny and the no ground clearance.
That’s the biggest problem with my 2020 Camry xse awd ground clearance is to low and in deep snow everything just gets stuck up in the wheel well and it’s hard to clear out which leads to the vehicle vibrating
No one can embarrass the AWD system of the Subaru. They have been king of driving in the snow, add #1 safety ratings in 2021, it’s the best family vehicle for people who live in cold weather.
I used to drive a 05 highlander and it slipped all the time. I don't understand the use of AWD if it isn't instantly working? If it takes even 3 seconds to turn on, you would already be in the slip.
i'm surprised the awd took so long to kick in. I can see getting into a lot of trouble at even 30 mph before the awd starts to help.
Or is the awd 's main feature getting going in snow, with no thought to handling?
As always with this product Toyota did what Toyota does best which is building a quality, reliable, functional and most importantly conservative looking vehicle. Well done. Great job on the video too. 👍 Have a great holidays!
Toyota needs to fix their hybrid awd vehicles to work like this.
It’s because of the design. The Toyota hybrids use E AWD. The Camry AWD here for instance has a mechanical AWD system
Their latest hybrid highlander did great on the diagonal test