Is The New 2025 AWD Toyota Camry Better OR Worse Than The Old One On The TFL Slip Test?
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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Such a great idea for a comparison!
Glad you think so!
This channel actually makes good content from time to time, today is one of those days
Close, at lease.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Toyota's hybrid "AWD" system is borderline false advertising. If it can't provide enough torque to the rear to get the car moving, how is it AWD?
This test simply isn’t indicative of real world use. My wife took a Prius AWD to a local farm event and most of the trucks and SUVs got stuck in the mud, but her little Prius was one of the only vehicles to make it out of there without requiring a push. She’s also never gotten it stuck in the snow or ice here in New England, while her co-workers are always calling into work for not being able to make it. Sure, this is an anecdote of one, but she’s had the vehicle for years and we’ve never been stuck anywhere.
The AWD works well for most practical trips that people need them for; I’d imagine it would suck in the deep woods though, but that’s not what most buyers are doing with these things.
Just like when you have the Subaru Crosstrek on those rollers and he said it was a terrible all wheel drive system
There are no good awd systems performing bad on rollers. The better the system is in real conditions, the better it is on rollers to. But these tests show just a part of systems operation, they can't be an oracle.
@@toyota420xp He said the Crosstrek performed amazingly on the rollers.
@@User.Joshua I am assuming all those trucks were very old, and probably had wide open diffs. The Prius at least has torque distribution on the front axle, meaning it could be better in certain instances.
Hey Tommy, I wanted to thank you and your team for performing these tests. It is too bad the newer car's AWD system didn't do as well as the older car.
The AWD tests done by TFL on the 2020 Camry checked a big box for me in my purchase of a 2020 Camry AWD.
4 years and nearly 40k miles later, my AWD Camry car has seen some "Oh s***" moments in Minnesota. If my car could talk in these moments, it would have said, "Hold my synthetic oil," as the AWD system kept my butt safe (and clean) by keeping me from having accidents, 😅, in difficult situations.
Keep doing what you and your team are doing, and let Toyota work through making their systems better. Good job with the review.
Thanks for the great feedback!
Get snow tires Johnny
@ballathug8404 True, I have considered it. I have driven snow tires on other cars in the snow before, and they work out well.
It is a storage, maintenance, and cost issue for me when it comes to snow tires. Also, how much snow are we going to get versus how fast and well it gets cleared. My area is actually pretty good at turning the main roads around.
If I pick up a 2025 Camry AWD, I guess snow tires can offset some of the issues Tommy found in his testing.
Peace ✌️
@@TFLcar putting a stronger motor at the front wheels when it already has an engine and putting a weaker motor at the rear, it's the worst thing that they could do. 🤦🏼♀️
@@Negev-Israel- I hadn’t thought of that perspective, but you make PERFECT sense, and that’s really unfortunate. 😮
Let’s face it, the MOST this car will get driven in bad weather it 1-4in of snow. The AWD is there for alittle security in bad weather. I believe it’s up to par for that. Sure it won’t last the 3 wheel slip test, but it’s not an off roader. But will it do better than a non-AWD car, yes 😊
It won’t do better in both 3 wheel slip tests then 2WD, as many 2WD vehicles have a limited slip diff or great brake limited slip on the powered axle.
You're absolutely right. An icy hill in this car you'd be better off in something fwd with an LSD like a civic si.
I have the v6 2020 is not so bad in snow with good tires on one thing is for sure don't change your 8th gen camry for the new one it looks weak and not reliable
I miss cars….all we see are SUVs.
Thanks for doing these AWD tests. They are super helpful.
Nobody else?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers :-) Just found your channel. Nice work!
@@bertschbThank you 🙂
😊😊 here i am with my Pearl white 2017 camry xle looks mint inside and out with 213k miles runs smooth as silk.
Bought new has 0 leaks, 0 rattles, and only replaced front brakes last summer tires and 1 battery. Everything else is stock. Id buy another or the ES350 and wouldn't give it a second thought.
I live in a Boston suburb and found the awd system both in my Crown and my mom’s RAV4 hybrid absolutely superb! We had no problems whatsoever on the snow covered roads with all season tires, never even had a traction control light kick in. Is this awd system optimal off-road? No! Is it great for 99.99999% of everyday users? Absolutely!
Can’t wait to see the AWD Hybrid Maverick take on this test; it will be interesting to see if it’s power delivery is enough to get it out of the rollers.
Time to grease those roller bearings they are on fire.
I drove an 03’ Civic through seven MN winters on all-season tires and the only time I got stuck in the snow was in my unplowed driveway. FWD is plenty with snow tires for urban life. If it gets real bad 10”-12” of snow in 24hrs stay home and the roads are plowed curb to curb by the time you finish your cup of coffee ☕️ the next day.
We have a 23 camry awd and it does great in moderate snow and on hills.
Thank you Tommy for doing this comparison. I wrote TFL a while ago requesting this. Now we know it might not be worth the extra money for the AWD version for those of us in Colorado and other states that get snow.
This eAWD system seems like one that will keep your momentum up by delivering some torque to the rear wheels to minimize the risk of getting stuck in the first place, however, once stuck, there are better systems out there that can provide more torque to the rear wheels.
Will be interesting to see if Toyota makes a Camry Prime with a more powerful rear motor and if that makes a difference in ability to shift power between rear wheels.
I want Toyota to return to making a low trim low cost L model. A $23k basic car with only A/C and AT.
More reliable and after 200k same resale as loaded car.
in the world KIA cost $28,000. that's not going to happen,.
the "basic" parts of my toyotas have been the problems. Coolant control valve, roof rails leaking, sunroof leaking, alignments, ect. Sure, my infotainment crashes once in a whille, woo-hoo, reboot it and move on. The electroncs outside of that have been fine. Outside of the germans, the whole 'electronics bad' montra doesn't hold true
Not with only a/c! 😂😂😂
@@Suction_ You never used to have to reboot a stereo because it stopped working. Your comment proves that the electronics are in fact bad.
@@palebeachbum you got me there. We best go back to pixel displays and revert everything because someone has to reboot an infotainment once a month
The previous Camry was way better looking. Had that storm trooper look in White.
Well at least it didn’t spit out a bunch of errors like the hornet did.
The Camry is definitely just one of the easiest cars to drive in. I drive a fairly offroad oriented crossover normally, but when I rented one on a vacation recently, I hopped in and it felt like I'd been driving it for 10 years. Super predictable and comfortable, 100%
I think with these the issue is the capability of the inverter that turns DC current from the battery into AC current for the front and rear electric motors. On the very first all wheel drive Toyota hybrids like I have one of, they maxed out the capability of the inverter and that resulted in some inverters burning out when off roading because the current sent to the rear wheels was just too much for the electronics in the inverter. So I think Toyota are being cautious. To make the inverter able to handle more current would cost more and add more mass etc... And then the battery might run flat quite quickly anyway too... And large current draw isn't great for the battery either... So a PHEV with a larger capacity battery and beefier electronics might do better but the basic physics of a standard hybrid system just do not have huge power and torque capabilities. I think Toyota ought to move to PHEVs as all wheel drive options especially
@Tommy Mica Would you consider doing the TFL Slip Test on older vehicles? What I had in mind for starters was Jeeps, since they have pretty much all 4x4 and AWD systems imaginable: Command Trac, Selec Trac, Quadra Drive, Quadra Drive II, Quadra Trac, etc. Extremely confusing and I had to do a lot of reasearch to make sense of all of them. Second suggestion would be older Subarus, especially those with a real automatic transmission versus manual version, as I've heard they used different AWD systems between manuals and autos...
We did a lot of Subarus, including manuals, autos and CVT, with different types of S-AWD.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I did watch your channel once, I think it was a Suzuki SX4 comparative test. Your tests are very thorough and well made, but lacks a bit on american vehicle content, as your test vehicles also seem to be Euro market cars. Really interesting content nonetheless, even if it doesn't perfectly relate to the North American market!
@@Trueno1600 That's right, I'm in Europe, so no easy access to American cars but from time to time we get some. But when it comes to older Subarus - there's not much difference between these markets (in terms of awd systems).
I know many people look down on AWD sedans but I loved my 22 AWD Camry. It got me through some heavy snow in multiple states and saved me a ton on fuel for when I had to commute to Seattle from Boise. It was awesome on fuel! Not sure if I'd buy the new camry with the ECVT and not a fan of that grille. If I ever needed an AWD sedan again, no question I'd pick that 22 Camry up in a heart beat.
This new AWD Camry would save you significantly more fuel than your '22 AWD Camry saved you, and its e-CVT will certainly outlast the conventional automatic 8-speed in your non-hybrid '22. Toyota's e-CVT is not a conventional CVT. It has almost zero moving parts, and has proven to be absolutely bombproof. It will outlast the motor.
@@vlj1133 no... no ecvt will last...
@@rkim9955 Educate yourself. The Toyota hybrid e-CVT is not like any other transmission, never mind anything else with 'CVT' in the name, which, in the Toyota's case, is an absolute misnomer as it shares no mechanicals with any conventional CVT. The planetary gear setup in the Toyota system routinely lasts 250,000 miles without breaking a sweat for Uber drivers. It also requires much less maintenance.
@vlj1133 no and no. Educate YOURSELF. ECVT will outlast a conventional transmission ?!?!?! That could be the dumbest statement ever. Don't get me wrong, some will last a long time but most will not. Anything electronic related will not last longer than anything non computer related. Plain and simple. The cost of ownership sky rockets when anything electronic is involved. Instead of reading car magazines and watch UA-cam videos, try working on them before talking.
@@rkim9955 Holy shit, are you loud and ignorant. It’s okay to be loud. It’s also okay to be ignorant. Never combine the two, however, especially when people are around to confirm your ignorance.
Go watch some engineering breakdowns on this Toyota transmission. You clearly have no clue what it is, so, again, educate yourself. Learn, then type. In that order.
eAWD wins over mechanical in MPG, cost (assuming it's going to be hybridized either way), maintenance cost, weight and complexity. Hopefully the traction disparity can be sorted out with improved software and sensors over the coming years.
Unless you drive an Uber up here in Beautiful British Columbia all winter, in the mountains, 3 Peak Hydrophilic snow tyres are all anyone needs on a 2 wheel drive car. I have been driving Canadian winters since 1968, and have driven through all kinds of winter storms in cars from Minis and MGB's to Saabs and Jettas, and always on the best winter tyres of that year. Sure I have an Outlander now, but 2wd was never an issue...and I still buy the best tyres.
Not anyone even in the city a front wheel is enough if you have driven a awd for years. Fwd is a joke in winter city.
The Prius dingle berrie 😂
People shit on the Accord for not offering AWD, but the Camry’s is borderline useless. Sure, you get the badge, but it clearly isn’t that much better. It’s very much offered to help sales.
If you want a true AWD sedan, get a Legacy- especially soon since 2025 is last model year. If you live in a cold climate and really want better performance, save the money on spending more on the system and maintenance and get snow tires. If you can’t, then driver slower. FWD does just fine in the snow on streets.
Yeah, for people that actually need AWD I think this new Camry it's not an option.
This test isn’t real world. You need AWD or RWD if you want to go anywhere in the winter. In a rear drive vehicle you can add weight in the rear to get around in the winter. With front drive all the weight shifts to the rear when accelerating uphill. This is why race cars don’t use front drive. You can back up in an emergency. Most snow plow trucks are rear drive.
The potential for low speed traction distribution is greater with an electric motor. The rear motor has 89 ft lBS, if it’s anything like a RAV, is available immediately without waiting for the engine to spin up to much higher RPM. Very high torque and HP is your enemy. It’s a programming problem not a motor problem
Nice test I wish you would've tried the snow mode
I think I will keep my 2018 XSE V6 until it dies. No frills, no gimmicks...
I suppose it’s ok if you don’t mind the mpg or lack of AWD. Not a fan of a heavy V6 is a smaller car. It causes unbalanced handling. It will outlast you though and it’s fast in a straight line.
@user-tb7rn1il3q I have never had a problem with handling in my "heavy" V6 however I do know it's not a track car, but a cruiser so no one expects it to be a Supra or anything like that. You don't buy a Camry for handling, and everyone is way to obsessed with MPGs in my opiniin. As for the AWD, I have never needed it, even in snowy Utah... a good set of snow tires gets me wherever I need to go. To each their own I say, but we do agree on one thing, this car will probably out live me. 😉😀
Tommy, I may be easily amazed, but I have always been fasinated by this test. Keep up the good work.
Can you do the Acura rdx on the slip test
I wish you guys would do a ram 1500 four-wheel-drive test that way curious to see how they do
Acura SH AWD is awesome
"old" doesn't mean bad. I love my 8th gen Camry XSE v6. Sure the tech isn't upgraded, but everything else imo is better.
@@justahumbledude with the direction modern cars are going, "old" actually means better.
If you live in a snowy city get the RAV4 hybrid with the extra clearance for snow. Its only $2k more
I like the Sedan though plus to get the same leg room you really need to go to a Highlander. The Rav4 is a compact v.s Camry midsize interior.
@@ohioguy4326That's what I hate about crossovers. They're expensive for what you get.
This AWD system is just there to give you an assist at times.
Old logic
Toyota needs to make AWD system much better not a water down system.
The fwd is 225hp and the AWD is 232hp, so the isolated rear wheels only get a 7hp motor. This is not the same as having an AWB differential that connects up to the full engine power to the rear wheels. I don't see much benefit to this AWB system other than some very low speed additional traction for the rear wheels
It's still much better in snow than a fwd and you can take that to the bank 💰
Great video, great tests, great break down, great content 👍
It looks like Toyota needs to work on their AWD more. Would you say it’s down to software or the electric motors need more torque TFL?
Great test
Good video Tommy!
I understand what you're saying about the Headroom but I would also just for the record like to ask that you compare that with a similar car that doesn't have a sunroof. A sunroof eats up a huge amount of headroom. I don't really think it's a fair comparison. There are many people like myself who would not buy a car with a sunroof. Honestly this car in its base trim comes with way more fluff than I would want anyway. I'd like to see how the base Le with no options except all-wheel drive does.
This is the test I have been waiting for.
The hybrid AwD system was never good. The mechanically awd is superior
My dad and brother have the crv hybrid. Is it the same with Honda?
@@Cgl3g3nd The CRV hybrid uses a traditional driveshaft and rear differential.
The E-AWD on the crown platinum is fantastic. It has an all-time AWD system instead of a part time system.
@@pnwdweler4100I hear the mechanical one on the CRV hybrid sucks too, and rated worse than this.
Why do they glue that corner exhaust outlet if its not gonna be functional.
The previous gen is way better than the new one, especially the AWD system with drive shaft. This gen AWD is a gimmick
love the snow test idea
Looks like I will be keeping my 2000 Camry LE for a while longer.
Good choice,
I bought the new Camry and I have buyer's remorse 😧...the older generation of Camry 's are better ..my neighbor has a 2014 It actually drives better than my 2025 and the seats are sooooooooo uncomfortable in the new Camry .. Toyota messed up the Camry!
You guys need to do this in a base model 2024 Impreza I’m curious
These early posts! Lol I am loving the look on the new one though. AWD isn't important to me, yet here I am.
Perfect timing! I was just curious if the awd, compared to the previous systems, make a difference. Seems its not worth paying 1500 more to get it.
This is gonna be a hot buy! Much rather have this than the Tacoma at this point.
It's a shame the car didn't perform well on the roller test. Hope Toyota improves on the traction system.
Rightly or wrongly I always looked at AWD as something to help with stability during poor driving conditions and FWD for getting me out of some sticky situations. Asking AWD to get you out of the ditch is asking a bit much.
Great video. I enjoyed the traction testing 👌🙏subscribed for future interesting videos.
Good video as always. Thanks for sharing.
Outstanding report 👍
Maybe a slight editing oversight at 8:18 but sorry I'm just being picky great job as always
Love your car video
I have a 2022 but wish I had the new 2025. The 2025 interior is a lot nicer, more MPG’s is better, exterior is better.
I’m impressed by Toyota’s E-AWD. Considering it almost did everything the mechanical AWD did. I would give up some functionality of the 24’ at 28mpg combined for the 25’ that gets 46mpg combined.
Toyota's AWD system is one of the worst performing on the market. They're is nothing impressive about its performance.
@@palebeachbumwhat do you need it for? Nobody is offroading their Camry. This is for better capabilities in inclement weather conditions.
@@palebeachbum for wet roads and a few inches of snow it’s sufficient for a family sedan. Is it supposed to have front and rear lockers?
@@palebeachbumis it? or is it just your opinion. I’m going with the latter.
I kinda wonder if Toyota does it for driving dynamics? Maybe they're not really thinking about all wheel drive capability. I think maybe they just want it to feel like a luxury sedan under normal conditions.
great test Tommy
another worse than the prior year Toyota
Tundra= garbage
Tacoma=trash
Camry=ruined
Prius and Corolla are at least cool though.@@Sunandstar13
I prefer some stuff on the older sequoia.
You should put a Subaru next to this in your test.
I feel like there's a human element involved here. It felt like the 2024 guy was 'pumping' the accelerator in a different way except for the last test.
Same guy
It’s like the G80 BMW, people will complain about it and they will ending up liking it in the end. Watch.
Can you guys do a slip test on 2025 Sienna AWD?
The amount of front spin till the rear does anything is really bad...maybe good enough to get you unstuck, but if you're driving on slick conditions you'd be all over the place. The rear seems to be really disconnected from the front and doesn't have enough power. It's only 40 HP on the rear, but the front has 225, so it's around up to 15% of the power to the rear in the most ideal conditions. At slow speeds and depending on how much throttle, it could be doing maybe 50% at the rear (40HP) + 50% up front (40HP), but that must be at really slow speeds and very light throttle work...realistically as the video shows, it's doing 80%+ front spinning.
With a real 4x4 system on a truck all 4 wheels put the power down predictably and smoothly before spin is detected. That said, on dry pavement, that rear electric motor should give a little shove at at launch or if you're at the limit in a corner, it will give some boost to push you out or straight out the rear end, but this isn't the correct car for mashing the throttle to the floor on a winding road...That AWD extra weight will actually hinder the car's cornering ability if you're a normal person who doesn't mash the throttle on a curve with the fam in the backseat...realistically you'll be going into a corner, them maybe light braking to slow down as you enter, or just light acceleration through it.
Cruising around the rear motor is just deadweight. It only engages it at low speed take off or full on mash the throttle. In highway driving, it wont be doing anything (nor should it...).
I think people are best served going FWD + snow tires if that's a problem for you. You save 1500 (2 years of gas for 12,000 miles per year) for the AWD system + 10% better MPG (around $100 per year for 12000 miles). Also AWD will cause tires to wear faster and the system is just something else to maintain and maybe fail.
My 2 cents is AWD in most cars a scam or maybe "marketing feature checklist is a better way to phrase it." AWD only matters for high performance/HP cars to accelerate from stop without wheel spin and at the limit driving through corners...the kind of driving no one should be doing on public roads. In slippery conditions, if your tires loose grip, you're going to slide...putting more power while wheels are spinning only makes the situation worse...only good wet or ice performance tires save you (somewhat) by preventing the slip from happening (maybe), but no car is going to be able to drive on sheets of ice, so a more realistic situation is intermittently a corner of the cars hits something slick. I'd drive a 2WD truck with good snow tires in a winter over a 4WD truck with all seasons any day. 4WD is only good for serious offroad conditions or bad snowstorms...people on wet or dry pavement don't need AWD/4WD...they need good tires with 50%+ remaining tread and proper inflation.
Hybrid awd systems never perform as good as a mechanical awd system...which is why I'll probably not buy a awd toyota hybrid. I had hopes for the prius awd but we all know how that performed
I'm curious: in your testing did you notice reduced torque steer with AWD? (full accel from a stop)
That rear electric motor is only 7 hp?
The red seats somehow look kinda juvenile in the Camry and i usually love red seats
Toyota needs to hire some better designs. This car looks good for the younger generation. But for the attended audience its way overly styled! Leave that to Hyundai lol
I have a 2025 Camry LE 2 wheel drive and if it snows I'll take the Jeep WJ
Isn't the rear only powered by the electric system? Meaning only powered when the capacitor is charged and the vehicle is launching...
It’s a “gutter nudger” awd system. Nothing wrong with that for a high efficiency sedan.
I wonder if with this being E-AWD that they may be able to resolve some of these problems with software updates...🤔🤔
well, it was somewhat shaking whole car with one wheel, meaning not so weak torque still on the ground, but imagine winter time all 4 wheels will be on slippery surface and then high torque does not matter anymore, all wheels have too little friction. so that AWD is for unplowed parking and flat incline in winter. to normal driving that is enough.
Our neighbor has had nothing but trouble with their previous generation hybrid Camry. I hope Toyota has fixed the issues.
Like what?
I remember going to the Chicago Car Show and closing the door and it sounded so cheap and hollow sounding.
@@atmartensyou just described every Toyota I've ever gotten in. They all sound cheap and hollow.
What issues were there?
@@tails300 Both the regular battery and hybrid battery would go flat if the car wasn’t driven for 3-4 days. The hybrid battery was replaced once and the regular battery was replaced 3 times. He didn’t say what other electric components were swapped out. The hybrid display screen was replaced. Wheel bearings and warped brake discs replaced. Quite a number of issues for 3 year old car. He hates it.
It's slipping so much on the rollers, maybe you need snow tires 😂🎉😂
Is TRD in the lineup? I might try that 😏
Worse, the rear is not fully collaborated with the front and lacks power on the back end
Which one is more fun to drive fwd vs AWD, quicker acceleration 0-45 (don't care for (0-60)
Great vid, but i thought you could get AWD in the 300+hp V6 camry they just quit making.
Nope
The RAV4 had the same problem with the 3-wheel test. Definitely going to think twice before getting a Toyota with an eAWD.
It's OK. I live in So Cal. What happened to Nathan? 🤔
Camry the highest selling midsized sedan in America.
That front end causes the eyes to avert.
Yea they need to have a more powerful motor in the rear. Until they do that it’s not really any good
4:10 disgusting Piano black - have a feeling Toyota will be the last to change, true to their form.
Good alternative to a SUV. But for $5k more, might be able to get a RAV4 Prime?
Agree or not but Subaru makes the best AWD out there.
I somewhat agree. I think Audi's Quattro system is best. But those are unaffordable and I prefer Japanese vehicles
no
I was thinking about getting one but this is driving me away from it. Or in this case not driving away because it’s stuck
That test like you said is not real world. With a proper set of snow tires I am sure it will be great like any car, you can take a jeep with bad tires and a front wheel drive with snow tires and the car wins everything!!
@@raymikes1234 yes, but this test has been done on countless crossovers (all with terrible road-focused tyres) and they can all pass with ease. Comparing like to like, Toyota's system is clearly worse than most.
Given the rear is all electric, one last-ditch I would have tried would be putting it in EV mode, which should make it RWD only and apply light throttle to see if the traction control could put everything to the one rear wheel.
There are electric motors in the transmission as well.
Electric mode doesn't make it rwd.
How the hell is this system so bad? "Hmm, 3 wheels are spinning. Should I brake the spinning front wheel to get traction from the one that isn't moving? Nah."
I wish they would stop with the traction control/braking systems of the awd systems and go back to limited slip differentials in the AWD system. Simpler setup and works with e-motors and hybrid setups! With the way Toyota does with with the e-motor in the rear, there is no torque from the gas motor making it back there. I agree with some commenters as its false advertising on Toyotas e-AWD systems. Mechanical is the way as it guarantees torque gets around or just beef up the rear motor to 100hp or something worth wild. Then again, its all what the manufacture wants to put in as features in their cars...
Mechanical is far less efficient with dramatically more parasitic drag. You'd never achieve an EPA rating of 46 with a mechanical AWD system. This is why E-AWD systems are used.
Big Daddy govt says we need more MPGs because we subsidize oil with tax money