Doom is 3d but limited the room stacking is acknowledged in this video here. You could not look up because of pixel shifting. Source ua-cam.com/video/ZYGJQqhMN1U/v-deo.html Not that you are going to read this but also the room stacking. Keep in mind fhis was a limitation of the time and considering the snes was still making games. Keep in mind that in doom if the levels had platforming it could actually work. But quake is still true 3d in my opinion because Id had learned to move forward with their craft
Did you know that they actually could’ve used the y axis as it was possible, but the main goal of Doom was to try and get it on as many devices possible, that’s why Doom is able to be ported on calculators, or anything with a chip.
The original plan was to make Quake a RPG/FPS hybrid the level design was inspired by there D&D game. They went back to Doom because Romero was causing the game to take too long and it was faster to make it like doom.
One of my favorite video game arguments is which game is more historically important, Doom or Quake? There aren't many developers you can have that kind of discussion about.
It's a very hard question. Among many things, DOOM greatly improved on the seminal FPS formula of Wolfenstein, and its engine allowed for much more complex and creative level designs. It set the blueprints for FPSs for years to come. Quake 1, on the other hand, had one of the first engines that could efficiently render poligon-based 3D objects and environments. This technical prowess has been so influential that its effects are still felt to this day. Another of Q1's influential features is its multiplayer, obviously. DOOM had multiplayer too, but Quake's is much more fleshed out and with many more elements. It was so influential that it spawned standalone games dedicated solely to it.
Wolfenstein created the FPS genre, Doom made it fun, Quake made it 3D, and Half Life made it engaging. This is how I see it, and I will die on this hill.
One time I had a dream involving quake where I found an animatronic fiend that jumped at me in the closet of a house my grandparents were renting. I was so surprised the owner of the place happened to be a quake fan and was trying to figure out why a fiend animatronic even existed
Vast majority of modern engines trace their code back to Quakes engine, with many common engines being directly descended via Quake 3s engine, CoD for example despite all its claims of a "new engine" its still built on top of the Quake 3 engine
@@williampaabreeves CoD is the perfect example I was going to bring up. To this day it has some lines of Quake code still in there, even if it is a Ship of Theseus.
@@mopeybloke Yea, but the Source engine was built on top of tons of GoldSrc, not completely, but tons was, so there’s a good chance it still has lines from the Quake engine.
Even with my limited knowledge of Quake (I'm more of a Half-Life guy myself), I can't deny how influential Quake was for 3D first-person shooters. id really set the goalposts high for the genre with Quake, and I can appreciate that even without firsthand experience. Plus, if it wasn't for Quake, Half-Life might not have existed - so I have to be thankful for that.
Honestly the reason I'm so intrigued by Quake in the first place is because of Half Life. I initially started this retro FPS marathon so I could build up to Half Life, but when Eternal got a release date, I made Doom my focus for now. I'll get to half life some time next year.
I've got Quake and other retro FPSes on the mind now because I'm gonna be marathoning the Half-Life series for my channel through the rest of the year. So it's interesting to look at the groundwork that had been established before Valve put their hat into the ring.
@@ThatTravGuy you should do Blake Stone and Rise of the Triad. There advanced games built on the Wolfenstine 3d engine. ROTT was made by Tom Hall and the Developers of Infinite Power. Tom Hall plays the final boss.
@@JeffreyPiatt If he ever does Rise of the Triad, I think he absolutely needs to reach out to Civvie11 for a cameo and some information. It's hard to get more comprehensive with that game than him, the weird little piece of FPS history it is. And Andrew Huschult's soundtrack for that is ABSOLUTELY amazing in the remaster.
Fum Fact: John Romero helped shape the Immersive sim, as he let a programmer and designer that helped create System Shock and Thief make his own office, and allowing him to make anything. That was how Deus Ex was born.
Both quake and sm64 use noises and textures from commonly available texture/.wav disks from the time. Theres a few videos about it and a whole community based around finding where these textures originally came from.
Nothing better to watch as I eat breakfast than a new Trav video on my second favorite classic shooter. I nearly spat out my tea laughing at you imitating the gun bobbing animation, thanks for that.
Quake 1 wasn't the start of the mouselook phenomenon, in fact, Wolf3D was designed using mouselook and so was Doom, ID just didn't make it the default because they assumed players wouldn't be comfortable with it.
@@JeffreyPiatt Build actually did introduce free aim and beat Quake to market with it, but they were copying the exact formula iD explained to everyone so they really ripped it off from an unreleased Quake. The games came out very close together, Duke even makes a "I ain't afraid of no Quake" joke. The first iD Tech game with look up/down handled it very clunkily (Heretic).
Bruh, Quake 1's grenade luncher is the best one in any game. Good for getting enemies around corners, Leading those evil fiend into there death. The arc of the grenades and sound effect is so nice
I love Quake's grenade launcher. It's so fun to use! It's a shame that no other grenade launcher in an id game since then has ever felt as good to use.
The thing is with this iteration of iD, they really didn't have to try too much with art design, story, etc. They had John Carmack, whether it was the smooth scrolling of Keen, the BSP rendering of Doom and Wolf3d, or the full 3d rendering of Quake, or even the Carmack's Reverse shadowing effects of Doom 3. You were just literally in it for the perfected gameplay, and excellent graphics.
My mind got blown when it was pointed out to me in a UA-cam video, like, a year ago that what would become the Strogg logo in Quake II is actually visible on crates at the start of Quake E1M2. And this was there in the original game in 1996. Suddenly, my mind was making all kinds of connections between the hellish creatures here being very early iterations of what eventually became the Strogg, and I suddenly want a new Quake game that ties together all this loose lore the same way the new Doom games do.
I'd say Doom is more like ID's childhood, bright colors and bombastic energy. Quake is more like ID's teenage years, brooding darkness and trying to take itself overly serious.
Fun fact: first time I saw a Shambler was when I was playing Chasm (which I had fun with despite the criticism against it). Edit: I should note, as there is another game called Chasm last I checked, I meant the semi-roguelike metroidvania…
I just came up with a cool idea for an ad for quake so it starts with a kid at home playing DOOM and then the camera shakes as the child questions the shaking he notices his entire family running outside then he too runs outside and the the camera shakes even more as a crack forms in the ground the kid shouts"QUAKE" as a giant sized copy of quake emerges from the large crack then the advertising ensues talking about it's 3d processing
DOOM actually is a fully 3D game. It draws the maps on a 2D plane, but the final result is a fully 3D game with true height values being represented by 2D graphics. Doomkid made a great video going more in depth on how DOOM's engine works and debunking the misconceptions that lead people to believe that it isn't 3D. Quake was still the first id game to use true 3D graphics and polygonal 3D maps and objects. There's no discrediting that. It's just that Quake wasn't their first truly 3D game.
@@LordSluggo DOOM isn't a raycaster. Wolfenstein 3D is, but definitely not DOOM. DOOM uses binary space partitioning which allows the map to be divided into sectors with individual and modifiable height values. That's why it has elevators, stairs, doors which move up and down, and other strange shapes. You can pass over or under enemy projectiles, which just wouldn't be possible if the game wasn't calculating height. Archvile attacks can push you up and over walls if the wall is below your feet while you're in the air. Cacodemons climb up walls before they can follow their path towards the player. If DOOM wasn't a 3D game, none of this stuff would be possible. The saircase at the beginning of E1M1 should be proof enough of that. If you're gonna try to respond with something about infinitely tall monsters and no vertical aiming at enemies, I can explain that too. Infinitely tall monsters were intentionally programmed in to avoid needing to process two or more actors occupying the same space. This was removed in Heretic which also runs on id Tech 1, so you can jump over enemies in it. Heretic also has a flight power up that lets you access paths that would be too high up to reach normally. This wouldn't be possible without calculating true height values. Auto aim removes the need to aim vertically in DOOM. Like infinitely tall monsters, it was programmed in because DOOM's graphics are optimized to be viewed from only one specific vertical angle. Stretching the graphics to allow for vertical aiming would've taken way more processing power than was worth the trouble and it made the game look really ugly, so the aiming was locked to be horizontal only and an auto aiming system was added in to make aiming at enemies above and below you possible. The developers knew what they were doing. They made clever cuts here and there to make the game easier on the hardware of the time and added solutions that kept the game playable. It's just smart programming, and that doesn't make DOOM any less 3D. I'd suggest you have another watch of that Doomkid video because clearly you got something wrong along the way, and while you're at it, borogk also made a great video explaining things more in depth. Watch that too.
@@Some-guy-on-the-internet You do not have three axes of freedom. You cannot put one room over another. It is extraordinarily clever but it is not full 3D
@@LordSluggo That's simply because of how the maps are designed. They are drawn on a 2D plane but the game interprets that data and renders it as a 3D space with true height values. Part of the map data dictates the floor and ceiling height of each sector, and you can move freely within that space. The map design has nothing to do with whether there is a Z axis in DOOM. If you're drawing a map on a 2D plane, how are you supposed to draw a whole other room on top of it without messing up the geometry of the room below it? The answer is you can't. Modern source ports have solved this, sure, but we're not talking about those. As far as id Tech 1 maps go, you cannot draw a room over another on a flat plane.
2.5D is still the most apt way to describe it. Some aspects of Doom are 2D. This includes the way the maps are handled in the design phase - however, some things are in fact full 3D which includes the game space and movement (which is why fireballs can go over your head). There's so many massive misunderstandings about this with people claiming "No it's true 2D!" and "No it's true 3D!" when the answer is both are true to varying degrees.
If I get conscripted into WW3 I'm gonna get a good weapon and hear "QUAD DAMAGE" then eventually "Double Kill!, TRIPLE Kill!, Overkill!, Killtacular" etc
15:01 that's because those servers are really heavily modded. you ever join a gmod server? it's like that, but stuck in 1996 speeds. it is toatally worth it, though
Doom is full 3d and it can be proven. Let a monster shot a projectile at you and drop down. If the projectile goes over you, it has a Y axes. (Spolier: it will fly over you) The reason for no room over room is to save processing power, Carmack only programed a bsp table for the mapping to not use a Y. But the game engine absolutely DID have one to work with. And before the inevitable "but you can't walk over another mob..." comments, that is only because to save processing, Carmack skipped over that particular virtual check as it wouldn't be worth it on PCs of that day. And that's why it was so simple to fix both in modern source ports. No changes to the actual engine were needed for hight Collision detection or 3d floors. Just some simple handling code.
I fucking love you're channel. I discovered it recently by watching your Mega man X series. I liked it so much that I wanted to replay the whole series
Im like the opposite of most gamers, i enjoyed Quake but i prefer sci-fi setting and heavy metal music of Quake 2. To me it was a much better game (yes even if we talk about the single-player portion, fight me). I will have to check the 1.5 mod though cause it looks amazing.
I first played Quake fully on the N64. I knew it was a port, but didn't really know to what extent the differences went. I don't remember it being too bad
Things that bugged me about Quake at the time and still do: 1) The color palette. It became the norm in gaming around that time and it was terrible. Doom was way way more colorful and holds up better. 2) The fact they had not figured our smoothing for 3D character models yet. Every frame of Quake animation is hand animated. Same in Quake 2, but with way more frames and an added "morphing" effect between them. It wasn't until Half-Life did we get realtime bones that made the 3D models actually smoothly animate.
if you havent already, check out the orignal Unreal. Think quake meets half life. You hear more about unreal tournament then the original. Its kinda underrated.
Funny thing about the "quake champions is dead" thing... A man by the name of Gianni Matrigano is on a crusade to bring it back. So far it seems successful!
With regards to the "story", what if they kept Quake as an existing character from the original setting who succumbed to the Lovecraftian realm, and would go on to become the "Quake" we know?
Quake for N64 is a miraculous port, except it's not a direct port, it's a game recreation on a different engine (from Exhumed/Powerslave). Great video btw!
I've thought about Duke 3D! I picked up world Tour edition on steam but I've been told that's not a very good port (I didn't grow up with Duke so I'd be going in blind) Maybe some time next year I'll take a look at it!
I like Quake, but not as much as Doom. Partly because I prefer Doom’s higher enemy counts, partly because I like the aesthetic more, and partly because I prefer how movement and aiming are pretty easy so the focus is more on playing smart with monster herding and navigating webs of projectiles from 30 imps and a revenant Note: both of these games are older than I am
Quake was my favorite growing up. The multiplayer scene is really what gave it all its life. I played QWTF until the last server shutdown. I can see tho how if I was discovering it post multiplayer how Doom would flex all over it. Not me commenting on a 3y/o video 😂
(I wanted to do this in live chat if this was a premiere....also good video trav) Triplets born, the throne awaits A seer warns of a deadly fate Give up your children, separate Bide your time, lie in wait! Sonic Underground! (Sonic!) Sonic Underground! (Sonic!) They made a vow, their mother will be found! The children grow, learn what's right! Leaders of the freedom fight! They seek their mother, she knows they do! Is it time? If she only knew! Will the prophecy come true!?? Sonic Underground! (Sonic!) Sonic Underground! (Queen Aleena): I long for my children, but I have to wait; To act too soon could seal their fate.. They made a vow, their mother will be found! Sonic Underground!
I still remember the first time I installed and played Quake. I remember thinking something along the lines of "This is really cool looking, but it's less fun than Doom." Also I've never been a fan of replacing the badass music from Doom with spooky sounds. Neither Quake nor Doom are horror games.
Source Ports Used:
Dark Places: icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/
ezQuake: ezquake.github.io/
nQuake: www.nquake.com/
Guests:
Ghristopher: twitch.tv/Ghristopher
Swavo:
ua-cam.com/users/n64archive
twitter.com/swavoXIII
Videos Used:
4:53 - Mario 64 Beaten with 0 stars
4:54 - Mario 64 Longplay - N64Archive
5:44 - Meet John Romero - One of the Godfathers of the First-Person Shooter
12:35 - Mythbusters - Toaster in Adam's Bath ua-cam.com/video/eVcNM8YeXrI/v-deo.html
14:37 - QuakeWorld Launch Event 1996 ua-cam.com/video/LXw6BkZ-gdY/v-deo.html
18:23 - Quake 64 Longplay ua-cam.com/video/56idvgKOE34/v-deo.html
19:51 - Meet the Scout ua-cam.com/video/geNMz0J9TEQ/v-deo.html
Music Used in order:
I Sawed the Demons - Doom
Quake Main Theme - Nine Inch Nails
Hiding the Secrets - Doom
Damnation - Quake
Focus - Quake
Life - Quake
Parallel Dimensions - Quake
Dark Halls - Doom
Slipgate Complex - Quake
Falling - Quake
12:45 - Thunderstruck - ACDC
Aftermath - Quake
Hiding the Secrets - Doom
fal22k_04 - Quake 3
fal22k_01 - Quake 3
Quake 64 Theme - Aubrey Hodges
End of Doom - Doom
Aftermath - Quake
Im howling at that intro metal
Doom is 3d but limited the room stacking is acknowledged in this video here. You could not look up because of pixel shifting.
Source
ua-cam.com/video/ZYGJQqhMN1U/v-deo.html
Not that you are going to read this but also the room stacking. Keep in mind fhis was a limitation of the time and considering the snes was still making games. Keep in mind that in doom if the levels had platforming it could actually work. But quake is still true 3d in my opinion because Id had learned to move forward with their craft
Holy shit! He remembered, No way! but seriously tho, thanks
Did you know that they actually could’ve used the y axis as it was possible, but the main goal of Doom was to try and get it on as many devices possible, that’s why Doom is able to be ported on calculators, or anything with a chip.
The art design and feeling probably takes a lot of inspiration from how the Id team felt during the games development.
The original plan was to make Quake a RPG/FPS hybrid the level design was inspired by there D&D game. They went back to Doom because Romero was causing the game to take too long and it was faster to make it like doom.
Nope, it was the typical 90's grunge + Lovecraft.
One of my favorite video game arguments is which game is more historically important, Doom or Quake? There aren't many developers you can have that kind of discussion about.
Doom created the genre, quake refined it to what it always should have been (and essentially still is)
@@TSotP Quake impacted multiplayer.
It's a very hard question. Among many things, DOOM greatly improved on the seminal FPS formula of Wolfenstein, and its engine allowed for much more complex and creative level designs. It set the blueprints for FPSs for years to come.
Quake 1, on the other hand, had one of the first engines that could efficiently render poligon-based 3D objects and environments. This technical prowess has been so influential that its effects are still felt to this day. Another of Q1's influential features is its multiplayer, obviously. DOOM had multiplayer too, but Quake's is much more fleshed out and with many more elements. It was so influential that it spawned standalone games dedicated solely to it.
Wolfenstein created the FPS genre, Doom made it fun, Quake made it 3D, and Half Life made it engaging. This is how I see it, and I will die on this hill.
@@connorgolsong290 Interesting way of seeing it.
One time I had a dream involving quake where I found an animatronic fiend that jumped at me in the closet of a house my grandparents were renting. I was so surprised the owner of the place happened to be a quake fan and was trying to figure out why a fiend animatronic even existed
Its a monster closet man.
A literal monster closet
That tease at the end.
*That Trav Guy’s About To Make Us His B___h*
It's all I want in life
Guy's he is that trav was gonna make us his bruh, calm down.
cant make us his b word without his friend superfly
I want (Why do I have to say this) (I HAVE TO!?) ( I quit)
bruh
It still disturbs me that this is what the Source Engine is built upon. The Quake Engine.
Vast majority of modern engines trace their code back to Quakes engine, with many common engines being directly descended via Quake 3s engine, CoD for example despite all its claims of a "new engine" its still built on top of the Quake 3 engine
@@williampaabreeves CoD is the perfect example I was going to bring up. To this day it has some lines of Quake code still in there, even if it is a Ship of Theseus.
Goldsrc was built on Quake. Source may have reused some parts of it, but it was a pretty different engine by that point.
@@BlazingOwnager The Ship of Quakeus.
@@mopeybloke Yea, but the Source engine was built on top of tons of GoldSrc, not completely, but tons was, so there’s a good chance it still has lines from the Quake engine.
Even with my limited knowledge of Quake (I'm more of a Half-Life guy myself), I can't deny how influential Quake was for 3D first-person shooters. id really set the goalposts high for the genre with Quake, and I can appreciate that even without firsthand experience. Plus, if it wasn't for Quake, Half-Life might not have existed - so I have to be thankful for that.
Honestly the reason I'm so intrigued by Quake in the first place is because of Half Life. I initially started this retro FPS marathon so I could build up to Half Life, but when Eternal got a release date, I made Doom my focus for now. I'll get to half life some time next year.
I've got Quake and other retro FPSes on the mind now because I'm gonna be marathoning the Half-Life series for my channel through the rest of the year. So it's interesting to look at the groundwork that had been established before Valve put their hat into the ring.
@@ThatTravGuy you should do Blake Stone and Rise of the Triad. There advanced games built on the Wolfenstine 3d engine. ROTT was made by Tom Hall and the Developers of Infinite Power. Tom Hall plays the final boss.
@@JeffreyPiatt If he ever does Rise of the Triad, I think he absolutely needs to reach out to Civvie11 for a cameo and some information. It's hard to get more comprehensive with that game than him, the weird little piece of FPS history it is. And Andrew Huschult's soundtrack for that is ABSOLUTELY amazing in the remaster.
@@BlazingOwnager yep his remakes of ROTT music are fantastic ua-cam.com/video/FaxBhTSYo_g/v-deo.html
>tfw got a chad hooked on quake in my IT class
feels good
I love how each of your intros are tied to what game you are talking about.
15:30 Yo who the heck is that scrub chef failing at that rhythm game.
Fum Fact: John Romero helped shape the Immersive sim, as he let a programmer and designer that helped create System Shock and Thief make his own office, and allowing him to make anything. That was how Deus Ex was born.
Fun fact: Quake and it's sequel Quake 2 were ported to the Zeebo game console, a game console that only came out in Brazil and Mexico
Great video as always Trav! Glad I was of assistance :)
"Maybe if you got rid of that old yee-yee ass helmet you could get some Shamblers on ya Thunderbolt, Shub-Nigguraaaath"
Both quake and sm64 use noises and textures from commonly available texture/.wav disks from the time. Theres a few videos about it and a whole community based around finding where these textures originally came from.
Nothing better to watch as I eat breakfast than a new Trav video on my second favorite classic shooter. I nearly spat out my tea laughing at you imitating the gun bobbing animation, thanks for that.
A lot of Reznor's work is a little more discordant. I highly recommend his Ghosts album.
Quake 1 wasn't the start of the mouselook phenomenon, in fact, Wolf3D was designed using mouselook and so was Doom, ID just didn't make it the default because they assumed players wouldn't be comfortable with it.
Wolfenstine 3d and Doom used the Mouse to control movement. The Build engine introduced Free look it just didn't affect aim.
@@JeffreyPiatt Build actually did introduce free aim and beat Quake to market with it, but they were copying the exact formula iD explained to everyone so they really ripped it off from an unreleased Quake. The games came out very close together, Duke even makes a "I ain't afraid of no Quake" joke. The first iD Tech game with look up/down handled it very clunkily (Heretic).
Bruh, Quake 1's grenade luncher is the best one in any game. Good for getting enemies around corners, Leading those evil fiend into there death. The arc of the grenades and sound effect is so nice
I love Quake's grenade launcher. It's so fun to use! It's a shame that no other grenade launcher in an id game since then has ever felt as good to use.
....Also gives traumatic memories when doing a nightmare run.
This guy wasn't even alive when this game came out. Some of his criticism is hilarious.
@@brpadington so he need to have played quake when it came out to do the review? Man thats some gatekeeping
@@brpadington I played Quake when it came out, and I didn't like the grenade launcher. How about that, dipshit?
The thing is with this iteration of iD, they really didn't have to try too much with art design, story, etc. They had John Carmack, whether it was the smooth scrolling of Keen, the BSP rendering of Doom and Wolf3d, or the full 3d rendering of Quake, or even the Carmack's Reverse shadowing effects of Doom 3. You were just literally in it for the perfected gameplay, and excellent graphics.
It literally can not be overstated what an absolute genius Carmack is. We would not have the video games we have today without him.
My mind got blown when it was pointed out to me in a UA-cam video, like, a year ago that what would become the Strogg logo in Quake II is actually visible on crates at the start of Quake E1M2. And this was there in the original game in 1996. Suddenly, my mind was making all kinds of connections between the hellish creatures here being very early iterations of what eventually became the Strogg, and I suddenly want a new Quake game that ties together all this loose lore the same way the new Doom games do.
I'd say Doom is more like ID's childhood, bright colors and bombastic energy. Quake is more like ID's teenage years, brooding darkness and trying to take itself overly serious.
"If Doom was ID childhood, then Quake is it's adulthood that is dark and deary."
You mean ID became a angsty teen?
The the lack of a map and Quake's full 3d surreal levels add to the feeling of uneasy that Quake always gives me.
13:18 Best scream ever.
I just wanna say: I'm a huge fan ever since I discovered you
4:52 *destroyed* me, nice work :D
Fun fact: first time I saw a Shambler was when I was playing Chasm (which I had fun with despite the criticism against it).
Edit: I should note, as there is another game called Chasm last I checked, I meant the semi-roguelike metroidvania…
There's a Quake clone called Chasm: The Rift, yeah that was sort of confusing.
14:44 What absolute madman plays an FPS with a flight joystick?!
7:55 took me completely off guard for some reason
I just came up with a cool idea for an ad for quake so it starts with a kid at home playing DOOM and then the camera shakes as the child questions the shaking he notices his entire family running outside then he too runs outside and the the camera shakes even more as a crack forms in the ground the kid shouts"QUAKE" as a giant sized copy of quake emerges from the large crack then the advertising ensues talking about it's 3d processing
10:05 now you know how we feel about marauders. just strafe lol
DOOM actually is a fully 3D game. It draws the maps on a 2D plane, but the final result is a fully 3D game with true height values being represented by 2D graphics. Doomkid made a great video going more in depth on how DOOM's engine works and debunking the misconceptions that lead people to believe that it isn't 3D. Quake was still the first id game to use true 3D graphics and polygonal 3D maps and objects. There's no discrediting that. It's just that Quake wasn't their first truly 3D game.
Doomkid is incorrect. You do not have three axes of freedom. Raycasting is extraordinarily clever but it is not fully 3D.
@@LordSluggo DOOM isn't a raycaster. Wolfenstein 3D is, but definitely not DOOM. DOOM uses binary space partitioning which allows the map to be divided into sectors with individual and modifiable height values. That's why it has elevators, stairs, doors which move up and down, and other strange shapes. You can pass over or under enemy projectiles, which just wouldn't be possible if the game wasn't calculating height. Archvile attacks can push you up and over walls if the wall is below your feet while you're in the air. Cacodemons climb up walls before they can follow their path towards the player. If DOOM wasn't a 3D game, none of this stuff would be possible. The saircase at the beginning of E1M1 should be proof enough of that.
If you're gonna try to respond with something about infinitely tall monsters and no vertical aiming at enemies, I can explain that too. Infinitely tall monsters were intentionally programmed in to avoid needing to process two or more actors occupying the same space. This was removed in Heretic which also runs on id Tech 1, so you can jump over enemies in it. Heretic also has a flight power up that lets you access paths that would be too high up to reach normally. This wouldn't be possible without calculating true height values. Auto aim removes the need to aim vertically in DOOM. Like infinitely tall monsters, it was programmed in because DOOM's graphics are optimized to be viewed from only one specific vertical angle. Stretching the graphics to allow for vertical aiming would've taken way more processing power than was worth the trouble and it made the game look really ugly, so the aiming was locked to be horizontal only and an auto aiming system was added in to make aiming at enemies above and below you possible.
The developers knew what they were doing. They made clever cuts here and there to make the game easier on the hardware of the time and added solutions that kept the game playable. It's just smart programming, and that doesn't make DOOM any less 3D. I'd suggest you have another watch of that Doomkid video because clearly you got something wrong along the way, and while you're at it, borogk also made a great video explaining things more in depth. Watch that too.
@@Some-guy-on-the-internet You do not have three axes of freedom. You cannot put one room over another. It is extraordinarily clever but it is not full 3D
@@LordSluggo That's simply because of how the maps are designed. They are drawn on a 2D plane but the game interprets that data and renders it as a 3D space with true height values. Part of the map data dictates the floor and ceiling height of each sector, and you can move freely within that space. The map design has nothing to do with whether there is a Z axis in DOOM. If you're drawing a map on a 2D plane, how are you supposed to draw a whole other room on top of it without messing up the geometry of the room below it? The answer is you can't. Modern source ports have solved this, sure, but we're not talking about those. As far as id Tech 1 maps go, you cannot draw a room over another on a flat plane.
2.5D is still the most apt way to describe it. Some aspects of Doom are 2D. This includes the way the maps are handled in the design phase - however, some things are in fact full 3D which includes the game space and movement (which is why fireballs can go over your head). There's so many massive misunderstandings about this with people claiming "No it's true 2D!" and "No it's true 3D!" when the answer is both are true to varying degrees.
Trent Reznor also worked on the soundtrack of Black Ops II.
There's a Black Ops 2??
@@ThatTravGuy Yeah, just like there's an X6.
When I was young I liked Quake, but I started really appreciating it only with the remaster. It is now an obsession 😬
Ah yes the most unsettling games from the 90's, a gothic, violent fps and an Italian plumber beating up mushrooms and giant turtles
Just bought it this week from the quake con sale based on your review, awesome homie
If I get conscripted into WW3 I'm gonna get a good weapon and hear "QUAD DAMAGE" then eventually "Double Kill!, TRIPLE Kill!, Overkill!, Killtacular" etc
KILLTROCITY, KILLIMANJARO, KILLTASTROHE, KILLPOCOLYPSE, KILLIONAIRE!
15:01 that's because those servers are really heavily modded.
you ever join a gmod server? it's like that, but stuck in 1996 speeds.
it is toatally worth it, though
The final boss's name is probably the most clear HP Lovecraft inspiration
quake just got brought to modern consoles!!!!!
With crossplay.
Time for i to get 0 kills, 100 deaths due to PC players.
whenever he looked up in 1:36 while playing doom i think i had a stroke but then i realized he's probably just playing gzdoom
8:05 playing with fire id software
found this channel through my recommended, pretty good keep up the work ig
Shambler is the best boi, Always give a smile on my face when he comes in a stage.
Best video sofar. Also nice to see Chris & Swav in a video ^W^ You're going places, Trav, now play System Shock 2 :V
You guys rock. I know why you feel like you can’t say her name for the memes
4:51 actually that sound comes from Hotel Mario, so that means Quake uses Hotel Mario sounds
Doom is full 3d and it can be proven.
Let a monster shot a projectile at you and drop down. If the projectile goes over you, it has a Y axes.
(Spolier: it will fly over you)
The reason for no room over room is to save processing power, Carmack only programed a bsp table for the mapping to not use a Y. But the game engine absolutely DID have one to work with.
And before the inevitable "but you can't walk over another mob..." comments, that is only because to save processing, Carmack skipped over that particular virtual check as it wouldn't be worth it on PCs of that day.
And that's why it was so simple to fix both in modern source ports.
No changes to the actual engine were needed for hight Collision detection or 3d floors. Just some simple handling code.
I fucking love you're channel. I discovered it recently by watching your Mega man X series. I liked it so much that I wanted to replay the whole series
11:41 me every time I try to play Quake 4
I haven't played quake but it's world looks like it could make a good horror game
12:34 The final boss level was indeed John Romero's doing.
Im like the opposite of most gamers, i enjoyed Quake but i prefer sci-fi setting and heavy metal music of Quake 2. To me it was a much better game (yes even if we talk about the single-player portion, fight me). I will have to check the 1.5 mod though cause it looks amazing.
This mod is great.
Also you might want to check out Wrath Aeon of Ruin
I like both but i feel like quake 2 lacks a soul
I want to see a quake reboot like doom but with love craft and strogg enemies
4:52 holy shit i almost died
That noise used in Quake and Super Mario 64 was actually used in Hotel Mario in 1993.
I first played Quake fully on the N64. I knew it was a port, but didn't really know to what extent the differences went. I don't remember it being too bad
Quake is the first PC game I ever played on my first MS-DOS PC
Shub-Niggurath is NOT Quake. Quake is a dragon that you fight at the end of the second mission pack, Dissolution of Eternity.
Things that bugged me about Quake at the time and still do: 1) The color palette. It became the norm in gaming around that time and it was terrible. Doom was way way more colorful and holds up better. 2) The fact they had not figured our smoothing for 3D character models yet. Every frame of Quake animation is hand animated. Same in Quake 2, but with way more frames and an added "morphing" effect between them. It wasn't until Half-Life did we get realtime bones that made the 3D models actually smoothly animate.
2:10
the life: *smack* NOICE
We need a 1 hour version of your intro
if you havent already, check out the orignal Unreal. Think quake meets half life. You hear more about unreal tournament then the original. Its kinda underrated.
Funny thing about the "quake champions is dead" thing...
A man by the name of Gianni Matrigano is on a crusade to bring it back. So far it seems successful!
Unpopular opinion but Quake 2 is a decent game with banging music and that's still fun to play today.
Shub-lovecraft's cat namerath
Im so surprised you mentioned doom 64 super shotgun and yet not the fact sprite was used from quake lol
8:50 That looks like flames to me.
With regards to the "story", what if they kept Quake as an existing character from the original setting who succumbed to the Lovecraftian realm, and would go on to become the "Quake" we know?
Reminds me of how creepy the music sounded on the PlayStation version of Doom when Caddicarus reviewed it
3:47 is this how you run with a gun.
Quake for N64 is a miraculous port, except it's not a direct port, it's a game recreation on a different engine (from Exhumed/Powerslave).
Great video btw!
Pretty sure that was for the Sega Saturn port
@@Autumn_red_fox Yes, my mistake, you're right! Thanks.
I hope you'll cover the new Quake expansions from the remaster version.
I have this for the Saturn and N64
lying down for a quick nap XD, the Zombies do that EXACTLY in quake
I play quake on my dispenser
Duke 3D when, Trav?
I've thought about Duke 3D! I picked up world Tour edition on steam but I've been told that's not a very good port (I didn't grow up with Duke so I'd be going in blind)
Maybe some time next year I'll take a look at it!
@@ThatTravGuy You'd probably use the data from the GOG release to use with EDUKE32
13:10 oh no... that sound..
Quad Damage addiction is real. I know.
Still in my top 5 games of all time
Quake 64 has a PC port. I did notice a lot of stuff missing, compared to the original PC version
This was also the origin of Team Fortress
Oh my god that guy using the joystick to move and aiming with WASD scared me
Oh lawd no! Not the VORE BEAMS!!!
Trav guy videos are great!!!
I like Quake, but not as much as Doom. Partly because I prefer Doom’s higher enemy counts, partly because I like the aesthetic more, and partly because I prefer how movement and aiming are pretty easy so the focus is more on playing smart with monster herding and navigating webs of projectiles from 30 imps and a revenant
Note: both of these games are older than I am
I play this in my school, mouse doesnt work so i have to use the mouse pad. Still very fun even if its at about 17 fps
Out of curiosity when was your first experience with Quake?
You should try the unreal games next I feel like you’ll have a fun time playing it
I like fighting the fiends.
Quake was my favorite growing up. The multiplayer scene is really what gave it all its life. I played QWTF until the last server shutdown. I can see tho how if I was discovering it post multiplayer how Doom would flex all over it.
Not me commenting on a 3y/o video 😂
9:30 dont search that up without typing quake at the end
would not recommend
unless you like that stuff.good for you i guess
Great content and delivery
The guy bobbing the gun is just excited to shove the barrel in their faces
DooM or Quake what do you prefer
(I wanted to do this in live chat if this was a premiere....also good video trav)
Triplets born, the throne awaits
A seer warns of a deadly fate
Give up your children, separate
Bide your time, lie in wait!
Sonic Underground! (Sonic!)
Sonic Underground! (Sonic!)
They made a vow, their mother will be found!
The children grow, learn what's right!
Leaders of the freedom fight!
They seek their mother, she knows they do!
Is it time? If she only knew!
Will the prophecy come true!??
Sonic Underground! (Sonic!)
Sonic Underground!
(Queen Aleena): I long for my children, but I have to wait;
To act too soon could seal their fate..
They made a vow, their mother will be found!
Sonic Underground!
Team Fortress started as a DooM map.
I believe doom to be 3d since it has 3 axis, it deffiantly has it's limits, but to call it not 3d is stupid. Quake is simply a less limited system.
11:40
Nighttime flatulence
I still remember the first time I installed and played Quake. I remember thinking something along the lines of "This is really cool looking, but it's less fun than Doom." Also I've never been a fan of replacing the badass music from Doom with spooky sounds. Neither Quake nor Doom are horror games.