Mark Vines vs Mike Tammen in 2023 National Men’s 65 Hardcourt Championships
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Great 3-set thriller. Mark wins 4-6, 7-5, 7-6
Sometimes score on video does not match actual score.
If you have comments please leave them, but be thoughtful. Also, you can reach Mark at mevtennis@hotmail.com
See you out on the courts!
Mark
This was actually more entertaining than many ATP matches these days. Use of actual strategy and low, skimming balls to approach the net. Reminds me of the tennis I learned back in the mid-70’s.
Yes, it was a lot of fun to see them coming in a lot. I am not at their level but still a pretty solid amateur who learned to play in the 1970s. Attacking the net was the basic strategy taught at that time. It was almost as bad as an unforced error if you didn't take an opportunity to attack the net.
Hello. Yes I love watching real people of a caliber that you actually have played against in your life (and who could handily smoke you today I might add. They both have pretty clean tidy strokes my shit is all over the place. As we age this does us an increasing disservice.
Took the words out of my mouth
Being 65 myself, you guys are impressive. Keep it up fellas.
I’m a fellow lefty and big fan of your matches on UA-cam. Great to see a recent match. I read that 2020 NYT article about you too. As a 52 y/o I’m still playing leagues and tournaments and trying to improve. You are an inspiration and I try to model your game. Thank you!
As a coach love the way Mr Vines approaches the net and volleys , Modern tennis is one dimensional Mr Vines you bring freshness to the game
Love when people complain about "modern" tennis on modern things like this here youtube that didn't exist in the days of wood racquets. It's called progress, pops. I suggest you look up a guy called Alcarez. He is not bad. Also, these guys hit backhands like its 1978. Give me the beauty of a Warinka backhand any day.
@@davidr2802 You need to calm down. No need to get snarky - unless of course, you generally do. In which case, conforming to type is probably what you gotta do....
Modern tennis isn't "one dimensional". Quite a generalization. There's a lot of variety. Have you watched Cressy? Serve and volley every point.
@@ST-xg3gy Thanks I will have a look
@@davidr2802 and the doping we in know ...ua-cam.com/video/j3km-0S3Xe8/v-deo.html
Hello Everyone...Mark Vines here. I feel very bad for not checking on my channel and reading all your comments prior to now. My apologies to each of you. With that said, I want to answer many of your inquiries about what you saw.
1st- this match was taken from SwingVision, which cuts out the non-playing time between points. It also doesn't show the score when moved from SwingVision to UA-cam...sorry!
2nd- My racket is the Wilson HyperSledge Hammer 2.0 115". They did make a bigger one, but I never liked it...maybe when I'm 75 yr. old I'll move to that size (Ha!). I've been using a large frame racket since 1980, with the Prince Woodie...and never went back to the smaller size. My rackets are from 199-2001...bought of Ebay. Mike Tammen uses the Prince Ultra-Lite size 113 or 115. Why not use the most powerful racket you can that allows you to maintain the control and touch you want with the power you can no longer generate due to aging??
3rd- Yes it is the Mark Vines who played at Tucker High School in Richmond, VA in the early 70's. I went to SMU after that and graduated in 1979...then pro tennis for 5 years. I had to stop due to shoulder issues but never lost my need for competitive tennis play.
4th- the crowd was situated either behind the camera, or way to the left/right of the camera close to the back wall...hard to see them at that angle.
5th- Since last May (when this match was recorded), I've lost 18 lbs, beaten Tammen a couple more times without losing a set, and still wear my "thin BLUE line" -my "thin RED line" and -my "American Flag" shorts. Those who put themselves in harms way to protect us deserve respect...this is my way of showing all of them how appreciative I am of their service. Sorry if you don't agree, but that's what makes the USA a great place to call home.
Lastly...I will be posting more videos in the coming months. Appreciate all your comments! Contact me at mevtennis@hotmail.com for more help or questions! Have an awesome day!
Thanks Mark! Love your game! Total package. You can beat Glen Busby too! Will you play him soon?
I'm leaning toward my mid-seventies and still playing. Nice to see seniors who can play singles with proper tennis strokes. I can still play singles though my water breaks add up longer than the games.
It’s so relieving to see a great player with great hands like Vines to make those easy errors! I’ll be good to myself from now on.😀
Mr. Vines..you have a great technic...tennis is an art...you are an artist...
How this "recommended" video from UA-cam came into my feed today I'm not sure, but when I saw the name, "Mark Vines," I thought: by any chance, is this THE Mark Vines from the 1970's when my Yorktown High School team (Peter Scott-coached, with players like Gordon Jones, Jonathan Banks, Marty Black...) competed against a Mark Vines-led team from Southern Virginia? It MUST be you - fond memories of high school tennis from all those years ago... congrats on this latest victory... and all the best!👍
I played at JEB Stuart a few years later...
@@drewkoslow7754 Thanks for writing, Drew. I just now read about your school's name change to "Justice" a few years ago. Names change, times change, but looking back on those years growing up in Northern Virginia and in its public schools, I personally wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. Best wishes from Southern California.
@michaellyon203 Indeed, compared to now, it was like living in Mayberry. Except for the race riots my freshman year...I'm still playing tennis, but not as well as Mark. I support the name change, personally. From Wikipedia..."In 1959 when the school opened,[19] the Fairfax County school board opposed racial integration of its schools, and the name, J. E. B. Stuart High School, reflected the school board's sentiments.[20] In 2015 seniors at the school started a drive to rid Fairfax County Public Schools of names honoring the Confederacy and segregation. So[21] on after, many alumni, including prominent names like actress Julianne Moore and film producer Bruce Cohen, joined a petition asking that the name of the school be changed because the honor to Confederate general J. E. B. Stuart was chosen to defy the movement to desegregate public schools after Brown v. Board of Education.[22]" Given that the school was given that name out of spite, with prejudice, its seems only right to change the name. Cheers.
@@drewkoslow7754 Hi Drew, I'm just now seeing your comment (sorry not have replied earlier!). I really appreciate your explanation of how J.E.B Stuart High School got its name in the first place and what led to what I wholeheartedly agree with you was an enlightened change for the better. I hear you about "living in Mayberry," too. lol I always think of Williamsburg Junior High and Yorktown High schools in Arlington (and being part of the family I had) as "the golden years." The teachers at those schools were really great and caring... the extracurricular opportunities at Yorktown (like debate and tennis for me) were extraordinary... and the whole experience of growing up in that environment was THE key to unlocking almost every door that's opened since. I live far away now - in Southern California - and while the passion that drives me has moved on from playing tennis to making music (after a career of LA public school teaching) but it will always be "thanks to Virginia" for making me who I am. Best wishes to you and your loved ones for a very healthy and happy new year ahead!👍
You guys are seriously awesome
I saw Mark win the finals of the 1981 Virginia State Championship in three sets over Craig(?) Milley. About two weeks later, he was on TV battling Lendl in the third round of the US Open. Mark lost in 4 sets, making an excellent showing against the third seed. He was lightening fast and a great shot maker - which he still is!
Mark, I'm a fan. Great match. Love all your classic strokes! Glad that you have your own channel now.
Great match, well done Mark have watched several of your matches thanks for posting
Great match from both players! Thanks for the video.
Classic of the classic. I shared this to our regular group and commented “none of them changed the grip for the entire match”
Excellent match. I really like the way the left plays with the slice serve, baseline spins and attacking the net at every chance.
Played doubles against Mark and Peter Mallot at the Denver city open back in the 90’s. He has the best lefty slice backhand I ever saw. Really incredible hands.
I enjoyed watching it . Thank you.
I don't know how old you are, Mark, but the stuff you run down is pretty darned impressive. Superb cardio.
Out of curiosity what racquet and head size do you use?
love the lefty's slice. I got start using it like you do. Thanks for sharing the match
great match....high level. really enjoyed watching this. Please post more content/matches!! Was this the final?
Mark's backhand is amazing. What a shot.
Great job. Hope I can run like this when I am 65.
Great idea to post the score at the top. Really keeps the suspense going.
My coaches in college were masters like these guys. They used to say they probably forgot more than we'll ever learn. We super athletic from the jr.'s. They guys have won a ton of matches. Respect. The cars driving by don't even know this is like a grand slam for them=(
Not like there are fans in the stands. I'd probably watch if I were somehow in the area (eg a regular at the club)
Thanks so much for sharing, would love to see more like it or other video content from you. Take care!
High quality tennis. Thanks.
I loved that old-school slice. Deadly.
If you look closely, both players with continental grips, and Vines, when he hits his lefty forehand, he takes the racquet back in a small oop, and still gets some lag in his stroke. For those that think that the "lag and snap" is only something from modern technique.
Nice match. Would love to be this consistent.
Looks like Mike is having to deal with shoulder problems on the serve. Just a part of the senior game. Watch the footwork for both of these guys, recovery/split step after the serve, split step on the return, etc. That’s a big part of why they are a couple of the best in the country.
Lefty’s racquet is HUGE! What is that a 130 square inch head?! Jesus!😮😂
Fantastic match play, tactics, and solid groundstrokes including the slices. You guys have great serves too. What racquets do you use? Please and thank you.
Impressive for 65s and over…big win for Vines against Tammen
Man I love this. I’m gonna be chip n charging next time I’m out there ha
The lefties game reminds me of McEnroe , especially his net play. Great match by both players.
You can't be serious
I remember watching that match when he broke down and said that.@@Enjoywatchingyoutube8227
Vines would beat McEnroe 6-3,6-2 right now! He is same age as McEnroe too! Vines has excellent leg speed and is technically better than Glen Busby who is top 65 year old in the world 💯. Busby is freakishly strong. The only way to beat Vines and Busby is go to their backhand
Overall great playing from both sides. What level is this?
I never met Mark, but have heard a lot about him in Richmond, where I live and play.
I am very surprised that nobody was watching this match?? Seems to me this would have a nice crowd to watch a National Level Championship.
National championships are for those few who are willing to travel to events like this. Not always necessarily the best 65s out there.
Excellent upload
Such impressive movement at their age
Match starts at 6:30 into the video.
battle of the dads!
Both are world class
Hi Mark, Great match...just curious your racquet head size?
Lefty has really high level hand eye coordination. Kinda guy who probably was really solid in multiple sports. Solid match.
Great video & tennis. You guys can really play. I think both players using OS rackets?????????? Now including myself that makes 3 in the world
Can someone please answer this question for me? Based on the sound the ball makes as it goes off their rackets, it seems like these older players have rackets strung extremely loosely. Is this actually the case? What tension do you think their rackets are strung at?
I string my racket with a hand-crank machine (Ektelon) at 59lbs. That equates to 52lbs on a modern, electronic machine. I use Wilson 17 Revolve (main strings) and Sensation (cross strings). Typically, I have 3 rackets for tournaments all about 1-2 lbs different so when conditions change I can change rackets vs having to alter my swing/game. Hope this helps!
Great players.
Mark, like how you keep your head down until the ball leaves your racket. You don't look up until the ball is well off your club.
All solid ball strikers do exactly that. I've been blessed to always do that throughout my career. Probably a huge reason for much success. Good Luck with working on it!
What kind of racquets are they playing with?
Hope to meet you at Asheville next week. Such a nice game.
Heh, heh, 65+ lefty here, there's the competition, I wouldn't have a chance. What can I learn from this? Should I get a big, powerful racquet, hit with an easy swing, work more on precision instead of trying to kill the ball...?
12:34 serve definitely caught the line.... Play it x0.25 and pause it as it hits
Funny how two people can look at the same thing and see it differently. To me, it was only in if the ball really compressed a lot, which I don't think it did. Close call, but I don't think anyone could overrule it in good conscience. Now look at the call at 13:19. Looks to me like Mark gave him the benefit of the doubt and called that out ball in. If that serve was in, then this balances it out.
Congratulations
Dear USTA, There is NO way 65 year olds should be playing 3 sets. Pro-sets in the pre-final rounds and a super-tie-break for the 3rd set in the final would suffice, i.e., the BEST PLAYER would still win and no one gets exhausted...or worse.
I'm 65 and play best of 3 all the time, many times against guys half my age - depends on your stamina, injury factors, and individual conditioning
@@mcrdl76 I believe you but 3 sets is very difficult for most 65 year olds and probably dangerous for many.
I know someone who would like to enter this. Is there a link ?
What a volley at 8:08, very nice
Great tennis! Serve and volley makes for a much more interesting game. I remember when Robin Soderling left Nadal and Federer flat-footed with his serve and volley style. Thought he might make it to the top.
hunh? Maybe thinking of someone else? Soderling liked to smash the ball on both sides from the baseline. Helped Fed to his French Open title by taking out Nadal. Rarely gave Federer problems.
@@maxxvelox2852 I clearly remember when he first hit the scene that his serve and volkey game was a refreshing change from the baseline game. But not long thereafter I stopped monitoring his progress as he wasn’t doing as well as I hoped. He may well have reverted to a baseline game.
That is the BEST UGLY tennis by Vines i have ever seen since i used to play Kevin Forbes at USC in the late 70s and early 80s . 😂😂😂
A good old school match
Swingvision to record the scoring would be helpful here :)
Do you all play just one match a day? My body would be toast after one match and need 2 days to recover, 😭.
Great netplay
Nice Match!
There should be a 60+ National tennis championships ONLY for those with double knee, double hip replacements and at least one shoulder shoulder have had a rotator cuff surgery! lol, I’d WIN! 😅 (***I’ve also had a lamenectomy/fusion and soon a trapezium replacement, I still play 3-5 times a week…doubles only and I’m a good 3.5 . On days when I take a couple Vicodin beforehand I can even reach a 4.0 for the first 45 minutes,after that I fall asleep 😊)
How do you know who’s who here?
Any relation to Ellsworth Vines?
Looks like a stingy hook at 12:32; that serve looked good.
Not to me. Looked very close, but definitely out.
I've seen Mark win at the Washington State Open. I already new the outcome of this match without even knowing his opponent. Mark is almost as dangerous as Oren Motevassel......
What's the NTRP level? That is a huge racquet.
Mark looks around 7.5. The other guy around 7.0. Very few of these older guys play against young guys so their UTR is inflated! Both would not win 3 games in a set off the 8.0 UTR young guys around here. The young guys can serve it 115mph. Tammen ain't serving more than 85mph. Vines has one of best serves around
Is it for senior people at the age 60s?
The clue is in the title of the video: it's for 65 and over
@@danguee1 thanks I just wanted to make sure because...it is hard to believe.
Who is who. They lefty is ?
Is Mark related to Ellsworth?
Anybody know what kind of rackets they’re playing with?
Vines is playing with a Wilson Hyper Hammer 2.0, I believe - 115 sq in frame. Not sure about Tammens; looks like a Wilson KFactor but not sure of the model.
Appreciate the info
Lots of backhand slices. Wonder why the backhand goes away first as you age, or was this the way they’ve always played?
Neither has much of a topspin backhand. Their backhand drive is a flat shot and they both hit plenty of those. But yes, slice is easier to hit for most one-handlers and requires much less energy.
I can definitely compete with Vines? He is best American! You need a two handed backhand to beat him!
Lefty has great forehand and movement for a Senior, but also many more unforced errors. Would like to see how he does against a classic pusher.
You would have to be a high level pusher such as a senior Harold Soloman or Eddie Dibbs to hang with that guy. He has excellent stroke patterns and uses a lot of spin for control and placement. He would destroy a typical good rec league pusher.
@@CJZM7777 Agree. However, Harold and Eddie are in their 70's. Might have to go a little younger. Brad Gilbert perhaps, or any of the Senior French players? Nothing like losing to a Pusher. Been there, done that!
Are these guys 4.0?
No fans...not even family members. My knees hurt just watching. Nice match tho.
Fucking BEAUTIFUL. Thanks for the inspiration and virtual lesson here. I'm getting back into it shortly... soon after this video 8-9 years ago my life got crazy and then I stopped playing for like 2 years... then 5 years ago I started again but alas my left hip was toast so the past 2.5 years I have not hit tennis - finally got my jiffy Andy Murray hip resurfacing done last week so I'll be back in action at 59 this coming spring. I feel good out there but my FH is pretty nasty these days. Gotta tighten that up -- in the past couple decades each year just a bit more late and slappy. Taking solace in "at least I'm out there" doesn't cut it anymore. ua-cam.com/video/duD__IVosrU/v-deo.html&t
bro calling yourself "blackenroe" is wild lmao I love you old timers. keep at it man! i hope to be in as good shape as you when im your age (im 26 now)
No scores???
Nice match , like the netplay from both, lacking topspin shots. Sure the next generation of 65J players use this more.....
What I dont understand is why they have to hold the baseline so hard. Never seen so many half volleys in my life!
It's called legs that don't have fast twitch muscles anymore. Old guys like us have to shorten points and be ready to move up for short balls.
how does john mccenroe do in this tounament
Next year he's eligible. Honestly it would be interesting to watch, I think Johnny Mac would have an old school game that would hold up over the years, guess I'm thinking that a lot of games that require extreme athleticism would not but what do I know. On the converse side some of these guys have been adapting their game to their age and circumstances so they'd be a tough out.
McEnroe wouldn't have a chance, maybe a game per set, because for the last several decades he doesn't play the amount of balls per weeks these guys practice
I disagree totally, Johnny Mac would clean either of these two. @@jenskruse965
@@jenskruse965 Mac would smoke either of these guys. Thats not a dig on these guys. They are awesome. But the former best player in the world has a different level game and as far as I know, he's not out of shape and still plays, just not competitively.
Too bad tennis‘ not so popular in this country
You can't at least record long enough for the handshake and final score announcement? Come on.
That forehand is hard to watch -- so little topspin.
Son of a BISCUIT! Ha!
thin blue line shorts? leave the politics off the court.
I guess by the time you're 80, you're using a 200 square inch frame.
If I'm still around, I'd have no shame playing with a Weed or whatever, Btw we've got that guy at our club, regularly plays for the national title.
Both of them have the well known Eastern grip of the 1950's generation, semi-western is very foreign to them. Lots of flat ball rallies with little top spins.
Vines is a great talented player…. Needs to loose a few pounds is the only criticism I have for him. 😊
Nice players, but the ehhh...uhhh....ehhhh...uhhhh needs to stop.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Vines
Send him an email. I'm sure he is dying to get your advice on how to sound on the court.